#linuxcnc Logs
Aug 26 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:00 AM Lcvette: thanks!
12:03 AM Tom_L: what determines spindle load?
12:03 AM Lcvette: sensor
12:07 AM Lcvette: usually an output on a VFD or drive
12:07 AM Lcvette: outputs a 0-5v signal
12:07 AM Lcvette: generall based on amp draw, rpm etc
12:07 AM Tom_L: man, i gotta get some sleep...
12:07 AM Lcvette: aight man!
12:07 AM Lcvette: night!
02:06 AM Deejay: moin
02:30 AM gloops: learn fusion 360 0r die trying!
03:08 AM Deejay: hey gloops
03:08 AM gloops: hi man
03:09 AM Deejay: cold outside, its becoming winter
03:09 AM XXCoder: most of next week is 60s here
03:09 AM gloops: its still august lol
03:09 AM XXCoder: funny as it was hot smokey hell last weel
03:09 AM Deejay: 7°C this night
03:09 AM gloops: we've got the end of summer and whole season - autumn, to go through before winter
03:10 AM gloops: it is cooler though, pretty typical for this time of year
03:10 AM XXCoder: here once heat ends it tends to stay away till late spring
03:10 AM XXCoder: theres often a week "summer" next month
03:10 AM gloops: yeah same here, there will be plenty of nice days though
03:10 AM Deejay: hi XXCoder
03:11 AM XXCoder: hey
03:19 AM Deejay: morning mister syyl
03:19 AM syyl: werter herr daniel
03:20 AM Deejay: wrong language detected ;)
03:29 AM * fragalot nods in agreement
03:30 AM syyl: oha
03:30 AM syyl: :(
03:30 AM syyl: wrong channel
03:31 AM fragalot: it's never the wrong channel
03:34 AM * fragalot => off to a street bbq
03:35 AM Deejay: have fun
05:19 AM Tom_L: morning
05:19 AM jthornton: morning
05:20 AM Tom_L: was a noisy night last night
05:20 AM Tom_L: lotsa thunder & lightening
05:21 AM jthornton: I sleep too hard to hear anything
05:21 AM Tom_L: i usually do too but this was pretty loud
05:22 AM XXCoder: i sleep in whatever how heavy sleeper I am, i dont hear anything ;)
05:22 AM Tom_L: 76°F Hi 94
05:22 AM Tom_L: didn't cool it down much either
05:24 AM XXCoder: one of very few things I miss about ark state
05:24 AM XXCoder: thunders
05:24 AM XXCoder: it was good show
05:26 AM Tom_L: JT-Shop, the config utility looks good
05:26 AM XXCoder: working on new optional package?
05:27 AM Tom_L: so far it's for the 'all in one' ethernet card
05:27 AM Tom_L: 7i96 i think
05:27 AM jthornton: thanks Tom_L
05:28 AM jthornton: I think it's a bit easier to use a tool designed for one card
05:30 AM Tom_L: it would be hard to code all the possibilities for every card combination out there
05:30 AM jthornton: yea and these are for master as well
05:31 AM Tom_L: you ever try the new 'run from line' feature?
05:31 AM Tom_L: i used it last night and it's pretty darn handy
05:31 AM jthornton: in master?
05:31 AM Tom_L: it's in 2.7 i know
05:32 AM XXCoder: hm
05:32 AM XXCoder: how about "scriptable" configuator?
05:32 AM jthornton: didn't know we had a new run from line is it in axis
05:32 AM Tom_L: yes
05:32 AM XXCoder: could create a file that tells configurator what gui to use so ob
05:32 AM XXCoder: and what is acceptable values
05:33 AM jthornton: XXCoder: I'm not following
05:33 AM XXCoder: im sure lot of stuff is common to all cards so there probably is some fixed stuff
05:33 AM XXCoder: but customizable some stuff unique to card
05:33 AM jthornton: ah I see
05:33 AM Tom_L: i broke a tool and was able to change it and resume from the last z move
05:34 AM XXCoder: jthornton: i know im not quite being clear, basically there is files that configure the configurator to specific card
05:34 AM XXCoder: so program loads fild, builds gui and person can use it to create or change stuff
05:35 AM jthornton: I understand that and some things are similar for sure
05:36 AM jthornton: be easier to have a launcher where you pick the card then that configuration tool pops up
05:36 AM XXCoder: sure though maybe add a way to create cards
05:37 AM Tom_L: custom ones would be impossible
05:37 AM jthornton: I need to get past step 1 first lol
05:37 AM Tom_L: you'd need to have a custom bit file generated for one
05:37 AM Tom_L: XXCoder, it's not as easy to code as you might think
05:38 AM XXCoder: Tom_L: i used to program yeah I know
05:38 AM jthornton: one thing I want to do is read the hmid and from that figure out the pins it has
05:38 AM XXCoder: I have long moved on from CS but I still remember :)
05:39 AM jthornton: and also run hostmot2 and get the pin names
06:02 AM HexaCube: XXCoder: o/
06:02 AM XXCoder: hey the hex
06:03 AM XXCoder: our wonderous mesa leader jthornton
06:03 AM jthornton: lol
06:03 AM XXCoder: jt linuxcnc can run any mesa correct?
06:03 AM XXCoder: I was wondering
06:03 AM jthornton: no
06:03 AM jthornton: many are for different things
06:03 AM HexaCube: So uuuuuh. XXCoder made the suggestion to consider linuxcnc for controlling the CNC router I'm planning to build
06:04 AM XXCoder: he was orginially consdering reprap type
06:04 AM jthornton: and that is a good suggestion
06:04 AM HexaCube: Now, it seems that linuxcnc uses the parallel port for interfacing, compared to USB interfaces with 3D Printing controllers i'm familiar with
06:05 AM jthornton: LinuxCNC can use the parallel port yes as well as Mesa cards that use PCI, PCIe and NIC
06:05 AM HexaCube: I'm a bit unsure how a "normal" setup would look like. Basically, how do I get the signals from the PC to endstops, stepper drivers, spindle and so on
06:05 AM HexaCube: what is the "man in the middle" :P
06:06 AM XXCoder: cheap way is what I use, BOB and drivers, requires pc, requires parallel port, some limitions
06:06 AM XXCoder: mesa removes limitions generally
06:06 AM jthornton: the 7i96 is a new stepper card that uses ethernet
06:06 AM gloops: breakout board
06:07 AM HexaCube: now, I might suggest that this is a somewhat "budget build" so I don't like to spend hundreds of dollars on electronics
06:07 AM HexaCube: I'm not sure how these mesa cards are priced
06:07 AM XXCoder: BOB is your friend thebn
06:07 AM gloops: the breakout board basically lays out the parport pins with screw fittings so you can wire things to them, also isolates the PC from the cnc machine components and currents
06:07 AM XXCoder: hundred to couple hundred? havent looked for while lol
06:07 AM XXCoder: jt link lol
06:08 AM gloops: it depends what class of router you are making i suppose
06:08 AM jthornton: https://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=66&product_id=150
06:08 AM XXCoder: yep it always comes down to this: user case
06:09 AM HexaCube: so, bascially I'd hook up my peripherals (stepper drivers, endstops) to the screw terminals and tell linux CNC what pin is doing what?
06:10 AM XXCoder: essentally yeah
06:10 AM jthornton: yea there is a configuration tool for the parallel port
06:10 AM HexaCube: this is how the plan looks like currently (a bit unorthodox, I know :P) - it's about 340x450mm milling area
06:10 AM HexaCube: https://i.imgur.com/xLMkyH1.png
06:10 AM HexaCube: so, a fairly small router
06:10 AM jthornton: parallel port > bob > stepper driver > stepper
06:10 AM jthornton: bob < inputs
06:10 AM jthornton: and bob > outputs
06:10 AM HexaCube: alright, understood
06:11 AM HexaCube: is there a list of things linux CNC can control? Like, could it control an ESC-driven spindle for instance? (which needs a simple PWM signal)
06:11 AM gloops: i doubt you will be breaking any speed records with that Hexacube, a $5 bob will run it, mesa is of course better if the budget permits
06:11 AM jthornton: oh forgot power supply > stepper driver
06:12 AM HexaCube: gloops: in what case would it be better, if I may ask?
06:12 AM gloops: if you want high speeds, more connectivity etc
06:12 AM jthornton: speed, more I/O
06:12 AM gloops: jthornton is the expert on mesa
06:13 AM jthornton: pcw is the expert I just try hard
06:14 AM HexaCube: hmm, okay both sound very interesting, perhaps I'll try a breakout board first and then maybe upgrade to that mesa card someday
06:14 AM gloops: with speed if youre thinking of 10m/min+ start thinking about mesa
06:14 AM HexaCube: eh, I don't think I'll be moving that fast hehe
06:15 AM XXCoder: HexaCube: honestly you could go to computer recycler and get 10 year old pc, its likely fine, just need some stuff done
06:15 AM HexaCube: what kinda PC should I be looking for, it seems any old computer will do?
06:15 AM XXCoder: just no laptops in nearly all cases
06:15 AM XXCoder: my pc is 14 years old it could run linuxcnc just fine
06:16 AM jthornton: if you can run the latency test on the pc from the live cd
06:16 AM HexaCube: XXCoder has been talking about that latency, what is up with that?
06:16 AM HexaCube: what kinda latency, I mean, from where to where
06:17 AM jthornton: latency for the real time thread, if some hardware interrupts the thread like laptop power saving features it creates a latency or lateness
06:17 AM XXCoder: cpu and interruptions and such besides that not too sure how well I can explain, I never was any good on explaining
06:18 AM HexaCube: alright i understand
06:18 AM HexaCube: how much IO do I get with a normal breakout board? Or does it vary?
06:19 AM jthornton: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/hal/parallel-port.html
06:19 AM HexaCube: (also sorry for all those questions you probably read dozens of times already, if there's a blog article or sth. you can point me to I can stop asking them :P)
06:19 AM jthornton: everthing you want to know about the parallel port
06:21 AM HexaCube: "If configured as out, a port provides a total of 12 outputs and 5 inputs."
06:22 AM HexaCube: that sounds like the most common configuration, no?
06:22 AM _unreal: HexaCube, are you planning on using a prebuilt board are are you thinking of building a purpose built one?
06:22 AM HexaCube: _unreal: uhhh... good question, that mostly depends on what kinda boards are out there :P
06:22 AM _unreal: There are a lot... can you code?
06:22 AM jthornton: the default is out
06:22 AM HexaCube: a *tiny* bit _unreal
06:22 AM HexaCube: generally I say no, though :P
06:23 AM HexaCube: I can design boards, though ;D
06:23 AM _unreal: I was going ot say tiny=no
06:23 AM HexaCube: right
06:23 AM _unreal: HexaCube, just for HAHA's google stm32f4 discovery
06:23 AM XXCoder: 12 out and 5 in usually enough for basic machine like yours
06:23 AM HexaCube: _unreal: I got one around actually
06:24 AM XXCoder: you would need 3 out each driver, that leaves 4 for other stuff
06:24 AM HexaCube: i mean, what do we need for a cnc router. 3 stepper drivers, 3 endstops, a control signal for the spindle
06:24 AM HexaCube: wait, 3 out?
06:24 AM HexaCube: STEP, DIR, what else?
06:24 AM XXCoder: enable
06:25 AM HexaCube: ah
06:25 AM HexaCube: well you could pull that one high permanently :P
06:25 AM HexaCube: or use one output for all of them
06:25 AM XXCoder: ehh not safe
06:25 AM XXCoder: one outputthink is fine
06:25 AM _unreal: HexaCube, for XYZ mill table your bar minimum is step/dir XYZ "6", everything else you can do manually turn on router, SOFT home.... if you HAVE to
06:26 AM _unreal: but that means your a slave to the machine
06:26 AM XXCoder: yeah I home my machine by hand
06:26 AM _unreal: XXCoder, did you see my opto end stop board?
06:26 AM XXCoder: I just use machine move close to ends then turn off steppers and move to min, then one rotation off
06:26 AM XXCoder: pretty repeatable
06:26 AM _unreal: dig it out last night
06:26 AM XXCoder: _unreal: hmm dont think so?
06:27 AM _unreal: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1k8US9cI7WMIMn3FHjpq8DcqPiSpv5e6k
06:27 AM XXCoder: HexaCube: you just need 4 inputs, X Y Z home, and shared max
06:27 AM XXCoder: machine should NEVER touch max
06:27 AM HexaCube: heh yeah
06:27 AM XXCoder: soft limit should stop machine before that'
06:28 AM _unreal: dug it out and traced it down.. 5v input.... interupt any opto and it turns on one of the 6 LED'S and puts out a 5v on one of the ribbon cable wires
06:28 AM gloops: you only want the standard issue mach3 board, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cnc-5-Axis-Interface-Breakout-Board-For-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Cnc-Mill-Mach3/222800818971?
06:28 AM XXCoder: _unreal: dang thats pretty nice. I bet it can be used for 3d printer as its 5v already
06:29 AM _unreal: could ya
06:29 AM gloops: that runs enough axis, spindle, limit switches etc, tried and tested used widely, cheap
06:29 AM _unreal: the schematic is real simple
06:29 AM XXCoder: thats basically same BOB as mine
06:30 AM _unreal: XXCoder, what one do you hav e?
06:30 AM gloops: ichs uses the mach3 bob for hundreds of machines hes built, ive got one on mine
06:30 AM XXCoder: theres spindle control in form of volt range. pwm correct?
06:30 AM XXCoder: worked fine for my machine
06:30 AM XXCoder: _unreal: mine was chineseium aliexpress one lol so no idea on brand name etc
06:31 AM _unreal: hum
06:32 AM _unreal: XXCoder, that board image I just posted is just a sensor package board
06:32 AM XXCoder: oops that was gloops
06:32 AM XXCoder: sorry lol
06:32 AM _unreal: ya
06:32 AM _unreal: :)
06:33 AM _unreal: I could build a schematic of this opto board....
06:34 AM _unreal: its what 16 resistors 2 comparitor chips a quad and dual "6" and some led's
06:34 AM _unreal: nope 26 resistors
06:35 AM _unreal: 26 resistors, lm393 lm339, 6 pots, 6 leds, connectors and 6 tcst2000 opto
06:36 AM XXCoder: HexaCube: there is lots other benefits to linuxcnc also
06:36 AM _unreal: I like that it shows the signal with the LED... make it easy to problem solve
06:36 AM XXCoder: if 3d printer screw up eh whatever
06:36 AM HexaCube: XXCoder: such as? :P
06:36 AM HexaCube: it does sound really nice, though
06:36 AM XXCoder: if milling screws up you really need to stop it right away
06:36 AM XXCoder: REAL e-stop, real coord setup and stuff
06:37 AM XXCoder: milling is quite different
06:37 AM _unreal: baby sit
06:38 AM XXCoder: my coworker got himself very badly hurt on hand because he made a big mistake
06:38 AM XXCoder: he got careless
06:38 AM _unreal: complisit
06:39 AM _unreal: complicit
06:39 AM XXCoder: hes going to mill work so he does know dangers but still good to warn anyway
06:41 AM XXCoder: well HexaCube you got some ideas and data
06:41 AM XXCoder: linuxcnc is bit complex but once you get there you will do just fine. hell
06:41 AM gloops: the general design Hexacube, i would consider some stronger Y (bridge) rails, and some diagonals to the uprights
06:41 AM XXCoder: I did it myself
06:41 AM XXCoder: which means you can do it
06:42 AM HexaCube: gloops: yes, I have bracing in mind for the uprights, just not added to the design yet
06:42 AM gloops: it WILL bend, dont worry lol
06:46 AM HexaCube: hah
06:47 AM HexaCube: gloops: even stronger rails? D:
06:48 AM HexaCube: i thought MGN15 would be plenty already, heh. Mind you, it's only gonna do wood and plastic
06:48 AM HexaCube: and PCbs
06:48 AM HexaCube: *PCBs
06:49 AM gloops: well, a general rule of thumb is that the y rails/bearings should be the same or greater than the z travel, you have got some leverage building up there, just at a glance
06:50 AM gloops: be surprised how even steel is bent with a few pounds of pressure - when its on the end of a crowbar
06:51 AM XXCoder: gloops: hes new one but hes machinist also lol
06:52 AM HexaCube: Not really a machinist, no. I know how to mill and turn stuff, that's about it :P
06:52 AM XXCoder: well in some ways youre more advanced than me
06:52 AM gloops: well we've all used machines without really pondering the design
06:52 AM XXCoder: then some things im more advanced
06:52 AM XXCoder: it really dont matter
06:53 AM XXCoder: you will keep going and learn stuff
06:53 AM _unreal: how would you guys build the X axis? I'm building mine so it can mill metal but I need to make it ridid as hell
06:53 AM gloops: wide bearing footprint for one thing
06:54 AM _unreal: the X axis will 30" of travel and I'm thinking about adding upto 12" Z so I'm looking at options for how to form the X cross members
06:54 AM _unreal: ya I was thinking wide
06:55 AM gloops: not a gantry then?
06:55 AM _unreal: it is
06:55 AM gloops: ahh
06:55 AM _unreal: moving Gantry
06:55 AM _unreal: https://drive.google.com/open?id=135fMuE3CmP8uoXCki4YfWx3L5kZ-KPTV
06:55 AM _unreal: Thats my base I'm starting with
06:55 AM gloops: nice base
06:56 AM _unreal: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1n8QM01eo2tG-qUacvH3c_0KZn2RtR0VM
06:56 AM _unreal: same kind of bars going across the bottom
06:56 AM _unreal: there are like 6 short sections
06:56 AM HexaCube: gloops: anyways thank you for your suggestions, I will consider it for sure!
06:56 AM HexaCube: about the bigger rails, i mean
06:56 AM HexaCube: (and the bracing, too)
06:57 AM _unreal: HexaCube, if your doing pcb ya wont need the kind of support I do :)
06:57 AM gloops: 12 inch is a lot of z travel, you want some heavy steel for the gantry
06:57 AM _unreal: ya...
06:57 AM gloops: http://www.cncroutersource.com/do-it-yourself-CNC-router.html
06:57 AM _unreal: I ws thinking about doing aluminum plate across. then steel square tubes in a rectangle cube
06:57 AM _unreal: bridging across.
06:57 AM gloops: these are worth reading, there is some science behind my madness lol
06:58 AM gloops: and some limited experience
06:59 AM gloops: think of it like this, get a bar with 12 inch protruding, stick it between you gantry rails, and pull on it
06:59 AM gloops: and watch them twist - that is exactly what the z axis will do
06:59 AM HexaCube: gloops: lol that link keeps referring me to an ad-page
07:00 AM gloops: hmm, opens ok for me
07:01 AM _unreal: gloops, same thing keep fwding
07:01 AM _unreal: that page
07:02 AM gloops: Do it yourself CNC router: Design Considerations, the Gantry
07:02 AM gloops: that should bring it up in google
07:04 AM HexaCube: still refers me, that's weird
07:04 AM _unreal: I've looked... most examples I've found are much like I was thinking
07:04 AM _unreal: HexaCube, try holding "esc" key as soon as the page loads
07:05 AM XXCoder: or use noscript]
07:05 AM _unreal: ! could always use "links"
07:07 AM _unreal: https://law.resource.org/pub/us/cfr/ibr/002/asme.b30.2.2005/asme.b30.2.2005_016_01.jpg
07:07 AM _unreal: I have been looking at something like that for the brace going between the vert....
07:08 AM _unreal: That way I could use 4 2" square tubes. have my aluminum plate
07:09 AM _unreal: mounted to one side and have my rails spaced as far as I can
07:11 AM gloops: not got any pics on my router on here, as changed to windows
07:11 AM gloops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lPLCwitPWY
07:11 AM _unreal: I cant stand windows
07:11 AM _unreal: so slow
07:11 AM _unreal: linux
07:11 AM gloops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf5p-7VZmcs
07:12 AM gloops: those were from when i made it
07:13 AM _unreal: HUM
07:13 AM _unreal: pLEASE TELL ME you added dust collection
07:14 AM gloops: haha
07:14 AM gloops: no im just walking 2 feet higher now
07:14 AM _unreal: hum
07:15 AM _unreal: why no dust collection?
07:15 AM _unreal: I built a bucket cyclone works the @#$@# bomb
07:16 AM gloops: it has got some collection now, was just testing it then
07:19 AM _unreal: well its 8:20am my daughter JUST woke up and hit the bathroom. she's going to a birthday party today. i'm going to drag her out so we can go clean my mazda
07:20 AM gloops: man its 20 past 1!
07:20 AM gloops: i thought it was about 12 oclock
07:20 AM Deejay: nope, is 20 past 2!! ;)
07:21 AM Deejay: *it's
07:24 AM XXCoder: 5 am here lol
07:24 AM jthornton: 7:24 am here
07:25 AM Deejay: XXCoder, y u not sleeping? ;)
07:25 AM Deejay: john fell also out of his bed ;)
07:25 AM XXCoder: usually I go to bed at 4 am but been playing game lol
07:25 AM * jthornton has been up since 5am
07:26 AM Deejay: uh
07:38 AM gloops: i was up at 5 as well, done some more learning with f360 and installed slicer for it and learned how to use that - its a cinch
07:38 AM HexaCube: wooo, F360!! :D
07:39 AM gloops: never used it before Hexacube, as not been on windows till now
07:41 AM HexaCube: it's very nice IMO
07:41 AM HexaCube: also fast to learn
07:42 AM gloops: yeah, very easy - i wont be doing any advanced stuff i just wanted it to slice models mainly
07:48 AM jthornton: is there a way to halrun a script and close when done? exit does not work
08:24 AM _unreal: yay just finished cleaning before the rain hit
08:31 AM jthornton: first egg of the day and it's 64g extra large :)
08:33 AM _unreal: spoil your self go for 2
10:42 AM hazzy-lab1 is now known as hazzy-lab
10:52 AM fragalot: Hey.
10:53 AM jesseg: Howdy
10:53 AM jthornton: hay
11:09 AM gloops: didnt take long to get fusion slicing things up https://ibb.co/hdZvTU
11:10 AM gloops: a bit more sophisticated than sketchup
11:12 AM gloops: you also get a little video on how to assemble it lol
11:13 AM Tom_L: you did that with fusion?
11:13 AM gloops: yeah, very easy to do
11:14 AM gloops: https://apps.autodesk.com/FUSION/en/Detail/Index?id=8699194120463301363&os=Win64&appLang=en
11:17 AM Tom_L: is that an addon or part of the installed package?
11:18 AM Tom_L: nm.. addon
11:18 AM gloops: its an addon, you jus download slicer - click and it installs itself
11:18 AM gloops: opens any stl
11:21 AM Tom_L: so do you use a suction table to hold it down or what?
11:21 AM gloops: not sure actually if the slicer app will run alone, it does need f360 or some autodesk product to be installed though - like have an existing autodesk account, or it wont install
11:21 AM gloops: i just screw the sheets to the spoilboard
11:22 AM Tom_L: what holds the parts when they're about to cut all the way thru?
11:22 AM gloops: use tabs when making the gcode
11:22 AM Tom_L: k
11:22 AM gloops: 1 or 2mm, just trim through them with a stanley knife
11:23 AM Tom_L: yeah
11:23 AM Tom_L: the mill workin good then?
11:23 AM gloops: yeah not had any problems with it since i finished it
11:23 AM Tom_L: nice
11:23 AM fragalot: :)
11:24 AM HexaCube: hm hmm, might aswell ask in here, has someone built a spindle by himself using a brushless rc motor in here?
11:24 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Bearing_Bracket/Bearing_bracket1.jpg
11:24 AM Tom_L: did those last night
11:24 AM fragalot: HexaCube: miss0r has one running off of an RC servo for his portable edm
11:25 AM fragalot: and I'm pretty sure someone else has a brushless motor for his engraver but I forgot who
11:25 AM gloops: i am having thoughts of a mill like yours Tom_L...but its on a list of other things heh
11:25 AM fragalot: Tom_L: your work surface is nowhere near dirty enough. :D
11:26 AM Tom_L: that's the office desk
11:26 AM Tom_L: and i had to shove everything out of the way to make room
11:26 AM gloops: not sure who was making the spindle motors with RC motors - someone in diy-cnc, he comes in here though, syyl maybe
11:26 AM fragalot: wasn't Syyl.
11:27 AM gloops: seems a bit of messing tbh
11:27 AM fragalot: gloops: they're cheap, powerful, and cheerful
11:28 AM fragalot: the biggest "issue" is that they require vast amounts of cooling due to their power output vs size
11:28 AM gloops: well, im all for cheap
11:29 AM HexaCube: fragalot: I was generally seeing to get a motor that has a fairly high max power rating (3kW) and run it at a way lower output (say, 500W) plus giving it a watercooled jacket
11:29 AM gloops: for a router you want to be going above 12000rpm
11:29 AM HexaCube: the reason is I want faily high speeds, higher than the 30k RPM chinese spindles offer
11:29 AM HexaCube: for PCB routing
11:29 AM HexaCube: and because it's a cool project :P
11:30 AM fragalot: HexaCube: i'd recommend that you don't mount your tool directly to the motor, but use a pully setup
11:30 AM fragalot: pulley*
11:30 AM fragalot: other than that, that would work fine
11:30 AM HexaCube: I wanted to do that first, the problem is at speeds above ~30k RPM that won't work :P
11:30 AM HexaCube: the belts i saw are rated for ~60m/s tops, if I wanted to go to the max the motor can do (that's ~60k RPM) the belt would have to move at over 100m/s
11:31 AM fragalot: good point
11:31 AM HexaCube: I've seen someone use a motor with an 8mm shaft and basically remove the motor's shaft with an ER11 shank (and added bearings below the motor)
11:31 AM fragalot: use some kind of flexible coupling then
11:32 AM HexaCube: more or less like that: https://i.imgur.com/iPUqDSm.png (still a WIP model)
11:32 AM HexaCube: I'm aware that won't work as it is right now, should get the overall idea across though
11:32 AM HexaCube: I'm wondering if the motors with the 8mm shaft use 608 bearings
11:32 AM fragalot: no idea, probably
11:33 AM fragalot: I wouldn't use standard bearings for the spindle though
11:33 AM HexaCube: that'd be nice because i could replace the upper bearing with a ceramic 608, and support them below with two more
11:33 AM fragalot: at the very least use angular contact for the spindle
11:33 AM HexaCube: that'd the the most compact way of building them
11:33 AM HexaCube: fragalot: meh, I was told by a few guys that do alot of milling, that using normal ones is most likely fine for my applications
11:34 AM fragalot: ceramic bearings are overrated
11:34 AM HexaCube: at 60k RPM they probably aren't, no? Especially if even normal SKF bearings can't get that far
11:34 AM fragalot: HexaCube: I guess for engraving it's less critical - but you should still have a way to remove end-play
11:34 AM HexaCube: yes, I'd be preloading them
11:35 AM HexaCube: 608 bearings can take, what, 25 or 50% of their max radial load axially
11:36 AM gloops: get some bearings out of a turbo - 200k
11:36 AM fragalot: HexaCube: Carry on then :-)
11:36 AM HexaCube: fragalot: don't get me wrong I believe you made valid points, I hope you take no offense on me arguing against them
11:37 AM fragalot: I don't
11:37 AM HexaCube: after all I'm making a sorta weird setup :P
11:37 AM gloops: (dont tell anyone youre taking them out though)
11:37 AM fragalot: with "carry on" I meant that literally. :D
11:37 AM fragalot: as you seem to have actually looked things up
11:37 AM HexaCube: sort of, yes :P
11:38 AM HexaCube: I wish I could ask my instructor at work about those kinda "hacky" things but he'd just tell me to do it 1:1 by the book
11:38 AM HexaCube: which I don't want to afford :P
11:39 AM fragalot: lol
11:40 AM fragalot: absolute cheapest way would be to take the motor, drill shaft to 3.175mm, and install your engraving tool with loctite & break out the heat gun to do toolchanges
11:40 AM fragalot: but there is a limit to how hacky a setup can/should be :-)
11:40 AM fragalot: what kind of toolholder are you going to use that can withstand 60K rpm?
11:42 AM HexaCube: well, I've seen that those ER11 (they do come in larger sizes too) shanks are commonly used
11:42 AM HexaCube: hang on, I'll link one
11:42 AM HexaCube: https://www.aliexpress.com/item//1848350253.html
11:43 AM HexaCube: I'm not sure why those would be limiting rpm, to be honest
11:43 AM fragalot: I somewhat doubt that the aliexpress ones are going to be balanced enough
11:43 AM fragalot: if at all
11:43 AM HexaCube: hmm, people seem to have had good results with them
11:43 AM HexaCube: but I won't be able to tell until I get them sadly
11:43 AM fragalot: make sure to measure run-out on the one you get/use
11:43 AM fragalot: i've had some good ones, and some REALLY bad ones
11:43 AM HexaCube: totally will do that, I'm very curious about that myself
11:44 AM HexaCube: basically I wanna see "how good can I get with a selfmade spindle"
11:44 AM fragalot: I use a modified 20mm shaft ER20 in place of deckel collets on my cutter grinder
11:44 AM fragalot: HexaCube: you can just grind it in-place too hwen you get it
11:45 AM HexaCube: heh, I *would* if I had access to a grinder :P
11:45 AM fragalot: a dremel would work
11:45 AM HexaCube: sadly that's one of the machines I can't seem to find nor use at work
11:45 AM fragalot: tilt your spindle at 8°, mount a dremel underneath it, and move the spindle down whilst it's on
11:46 AM HexaCube: ohhh, would that grind the uhhh... taper for the collet?
11:46 AM fragalot: yes
11:46 AM HexaCube: very interesting suggestion. I'd probably want to build some kind of setup for that...
11:47 AM HexaCube: I've generally seem people grind their spindles and so on, but never really know HOW they did it heh
11:47 AM HexaCube: *seen
11:48 AM fragalot: in a nutshell, exactly what I just said, just with a higher quality grinder, and a very accurate way of measuring the taper angle :)
11:48 AM HexaCube: what I always wonder about... The grinding material (wheel?) would effectively be removed slowly, right? Would you not have to factor that in?
11:49 AM fragalot: actually, not really, hang on I think oxtools did a video on that ages ago
11:51 AM fragalot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npybvhWYklc <== more recent video from This Old Tony explaining the same thing
11:51 AM HexaCube: wait huh, I apparently watched that one once already. Let me rewatch!
11:51 AM HexaCube: oh, surface grinding
11:51 AM HexaCube: okay lemme look
11:52 AM fragalot: its' the same principle
11:52 AM HexaCube: but... round! D:
11:52 AM HexaCube: :P
11:52 AM HexaCube: http://kaast-usa.com/wp-content/uploads/rc-grind-1050-diagram1.jpg
11:52 AM HexaCube: that graphic does look quite interesting
12:11 PM HexaCube: sooo, on this breakout board, I'm seeing an USB connector.. https://i2.wp.com/www.ijohnsen.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/bob-mj58.png
12:11 PM HexaCube: what's that one for?
12:14 PM fragalot: good question
12:15 PM Tom_L: power maybe?
12:15 PM HexaCube: my guess would be power supplying but i'd be surprised if the parallel port can't do that on it's own
12:15 PM fragalot: Tom_L: maybe, but it's not the right port to be a USB device.. that's a host port
12:15 PM fragalot: gloops: what's the USB port for on the BOB you use? :P
12:16 PM HexaCube: also apparently the Parallel port does not supply power?!
12:16 PM HexaCube: odd and interesting
12:16 PM Tom_L: i didn't think it did
12:16 PM fragalot: HexaCube: it doesn't
12:16 PM fragalot: it just provides signal & ground
12:16 PM gloops: fragalot just a port on the linuxcnc computer, it only gives 5v to the bob, no information is transferred
12:16 PM HexaCube: weird decision for a IO port D:
12:16 PM HexaCube: but alright
12:17 PM fragalot: gloops: so you get a "suicide" USB cable then with 2 male ends?
12:17 PM * HexaCube 's inner need to make my own BOB rises
12:17 PM gloops: yes
12:17 PM fragalot: interesting
12:17 PM fragalot: maybe the micro USB ports were more expensive :P
12:18 PM fragalot: HexaCube: not worth it to DIY it anymore, really
12:18 PM fragalot: either you go cheap & get spares, or you buy a mesa these days
12:18 PM HexaCube: well those mesa boards are what, 100 bucks? D:
12:18 PM HexaCube: or even a bit more from what I've seen?
12:18 PM HexaCube: what kinda stepper drivers do you folks use, anyways?
12:19 PM fragalot: closed-loop chinese stepper drivers for me
12:20 PM HexaCube: ohhh, fancy
12:20 PM gloops: more than $100
12:20 PM HexaCube: I only really know the TMC stepper drivers from 3d printing,but I feel like they won't be able to quite supply the current for the steppers
12:20 PM HexaCube: but I gotta look
12:21 PM Loetmichel: HexaCube: whatever i can get my hands on... L297/298, TB6560m, TB6660, and the allegro ones on the pololus
12:21 PM Loetmichel: -m
12:21 PM HexaCube: ohhh, you're in here too, o/
12:22 PM Loetmichel: indeed. What did you expect, seeing that all my machines run with Lcnc?
12:22 PM HexaCube: oh, I wasn't aware that they did
12:22 PM gloops: drivers..a lot swear by the tb6600, the next step up is this kind of thing https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Stepper-Motor-Driver-1-0-4-2A-20-50VDC-For-Nema-17-23-24-Stepper-DM542/263540064580?
12:23 PM HexaCube: Nema 17 Bipolar 0.9deg 46Ncm (65.1oz.in) 2A 2.8V
12:23 PM HexaCube: not alot of torque though, hmmm
12:23 PM Loetmichel: btw: i have a second CNC 6040 incoming at the company... less than 900 eur... cheap stuff now ;)
12:23 PM HexaCube: should be enough for me, though
12:23 PM gloops: i use the dm542s - theyre fine, tb6600 got a boxful of spares, im not convinced they are as good as many claim
12:24 PM HexaCube: Loetmichel: but where's the fun in buying a kit ;P
12:24 PM gloops: hexacube match the driver to your motor ratings
12:24 PM Loetmichel: HexaCube: usually the small gantry routers use Nema 23
12:24 PM Loetmichel: HexaCube: for THAT price? all the fun
12:24 PM HexaCube: heh
12:24 PM gloops: those in the link are 50v 4.2 amp - runs most nema 23 motors
12:24 PM Loetmichel: cant make it for that price, even with all the parts from china
12:25 PM HexaCube: well, I am still in a special position with being able to get stock for very little cost and so on. Probably won't be cheaper, but I'm here for the journey :P
12:26 PM HexaCube: ohhh, there's 0.9deg Nema 23s too
12:26 PM HexaCube: nice
12:27 PM gloops: now really, you want to be getting 60 or 80v drivers, and psus, just to complicate things
12:27 PM HexaCube: lol
12:28 PM gloops: the little nema 23s can take 80v - and perform much better on it
12:28 PM gloops: but no more amps than they are rated for
12:29 PM HexaCube: huh, china sells high voltage PSUs for a surprisingly low price D:
12:31 PM HexaCube: ohhh, OMC even stells the breakout
12:31 PM HexaCube: great
12:41 PM HexaCube: hmm, what about the "TB6560" drivers?
12:44 PM gloops: no
12:50 PM HexaCube: though I just realised the stepper motors are specced for 0.38A @ 12.1V
12:50 PM HexaCube: maybe I'll use the Trinamic steppers, they're quite nice
12:51 PM gloops: what steppers are you using Hexacube? those sound very weak for a router
12:51 PM HexaCube: I'm not using any right now, I'm still looking which ones to use
12:51 PM HexaCube: 127.5 oz.in
12:51 PM HexaCube: or 0.9Nm
12:52 PM gloops: something a little stronger maybe
12:52 PM HexaCube: there's also 178.4 oz.in (1.26Nm) but those are 2.8A @ 2.5V
12:52 PM HexaCube: so I couldn't use the fancy trinamics :P
12:52 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-Stock-Nema-23-Stepper-Motor-3-0Nm-425oz-in-4-2A-4-wires-10mm-Shaft-CNC/253747285716?
12:52 PM HexaCube: probably the better choice, though
12:53 PM HexaCube: eh I don't need to overkill it, gloops
12:53 PM gloops: you wont
12:53 PM HexaCube: I'm just gonna do PCB engraving mainly
12:53 PM HexaCube: and a bit of wood/plastic
12:53 PM gloops: after the day it first runs youll want more speed, more cut etc
12:53 PM HexaCube: I don't think I need those crazy huge motors for that
12:54 PM gloops: how big is the work area?
12:54 PM HexaCube: 340x450 roughly
12:54 PM HexaCube: that isn't 100% final yet though, but it won't change much anymore
12:55 PM gloops: hmm, well i guess speed is more important for a big area than a small one
12:56 PM gloops: but really its better to build one router than 3
12:56 PM HexaCube: yes but I don't have an unlimited amount of money to spend, I've started designing a router several times and it always failed because I was overengineering it :P
12:57 PM HexaCube: also I really don't need more than just light PCB, plastic, wood milling
12:57 PM HexaCube: I can do metals at work
12:58 PM HexaCube: what's the bad thing about the TB6560s though, if I may ask? I believe you, I'm just curious
12:58 PM gloops: i cant explain the electronics, but they are well known for being unreliable, read any review for them
12:58 PM _unreal: HexaCube, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07236CFKC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
12:59 PM _unreal: Thats the motor set I ordered last night
12:59 PM Tom_L: :)
12:59 PM HexaCube: what kinda controller / breakout is that?
01:00 PM _unreal: I'm not using that controller
01:00 PM HexaCube: it seems to feature much more I/O compared to the one I was looking at
01:00 PM Tom_L: nobody knows for sure
01:00 PM gloops: similar pack to what i got
01:00 PM _unreal: its just an ADD on
01:00 PM _unreal: HexaCube, I'm using this
01:00 PM _unreal: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06VSBVQWS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07G243CRR/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
01:00 PM _unreal: and
01:01 PM Tom_L: what software are you gonna run on it?
01:01 PM gloops: cheaper in europe, but dont know about shipping costs outside https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/German-Ship-3-axis-Nema23-stepper-motor-425oz-in-Drivers-DM542A-CNC-kit/262956834538?
01:01 PM Tom_L: gloops yours is 3 axis
01:02 PM gloops: yes
01:02 PM gloops: oh yeah unreals is 4 motors
01:03 PM gloops: i bought a spare motor for the z 270oz
01:04 PM _unreal: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Raspberry-Pi-CNC-Hat-V2-60-GRBL-v1-1-Compatible-Extra-Options/272596155477?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=571713892314&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
01:04 PM gloops: youll possibly also need another psu
01:04 PM _unreal: gloops, are you talking to me?
01:04 PM Tom_L: _unreal you gonna run grbl on it?
01:05 PM _unreal: I can run anything on it.... that add on board is just an arduino
01:05 PM gloops: unreal yeah - mine worked ok with 1 psu but we decided 2 would be more stable - and it was
01:05 PM Tom_L: just wondered what your plans were
01:08 PM _unreal: I ordered a second psu already
01:08 PM _unreal: that psu is only 7amp the one in the kit
01:59 PM gloops: anyone in uk wanting a very cheap very old mini cnc lathe?
01:59 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Colne-5-CNC-Lathe-Series-II-For-Parts-Or-Repair-1980-s/223109007113?
01:59 PM gloops: too far for me
02:03 PM fragalot: holy crap a BBC microcomputer system
02:03 PM _unreal: fragalot, ?
02:04 PM gloops: yeah i wanted that, cant drive that far though
02:04 PM fragalot: _unreal: the lathe gloops linked
02:04 PM fragalot: I just had no idea the BBC got up to that sort of thing :P
02:04 PM gloops: i bet the bbc bits are worth something alone
02:05 PM _unreal: HUM
02:05 PM _unreal: freaking hell its hot out
02:05 PM _unreal: just finished mowing the back yard....
02:05 PM _unreal: south florida
02:05 PM fragalot: 14°C here now
02:06 PM gloops: no grass to mow here
02:06 PM fragalot: gloops: there wasn't here either until last week
02:06 PM _unreal: 90f outside
02:06 PM fragalot: it's rained on and off since and I reckon the grass is now long enough to make hay
02:06 PM fragalot: but too wet to mow
02:07 PM gloops: it has come green again now we've had some rain
02:07 PM _unreal: where are ya?
02:07 PM gloops: England
02:07 PM gloops: only been one cut of hay this year, real shortage
02:07 PM _unreal: hum
02:07 PM _unreal: always wanted to visit never had the time or money
02:08 PM fragalot: gloops: I don't think anyone's bothered about the 2m² of grass that i've got :P
02:08 PM _unreal: now that I have the money I dont have the time :)
02:08 PM fragalot: I don't even fill up a single small mower basket
02:08 PM fragalot: _unreal: you have until march to go :P
02:08 PM _unreal: ?
02:08 PM gloops: its probably overated anyway unreal
02:08 PM _unreal: granted I grew up in New England
02:08 PM _unreal: Maine/usa
02:09 PM gloops: yes, nobody gets in or out after march
02:09 PM _unreal: ?
02:09 PM fragalot: _unreal: with the way thta "brexit" is evolving at the moment, it's possible (however unlikely) that the UK may become the only country in the world with no trade or travel agreements after march
02:09 PM _unreal: ahh
02:09 PM gloops: china is begging the UK for a trade deal
02:10 PM gloops: we will still have crappy can openers and inferior ballscrews
02:10 PM fragalot: gloops: yet the UK can't negotiate yet whilst it is still part of the EU thanks to a law they proposed themselves
02:10 PM _unreal: speaking of trade. I heard ching chong ching. what ever his name is """" prez"""" of china is a laughing stock because they are paying there own terrifs to import stuff
02:11 PM gloops: fragalot, well we cant negotiate officially heh
02:11 PM _unreal: :) and I'm still trying to figure out which cheap china crap ballscrew and tracks I want :)
02:11 PM fragalot: gloops: yup :P if you do things 100% by the book, it is an absolutely hilarious situation if you're not stuck in the middle
02:12 PM _unreal: Thats how I was living in maine. There is NO work. everything is expensive because there is no market
02:12 PM gloops: we shopuld have been out long ago, italy is acting up bigtime now
02:12 PM _unreal: and they wonder why everyone keeps leaving the state
02:12 PM gloops: eurozone will soon fragment and collapse
02:13 PM fragalot: i'm still not sure what the UK was in terms of EU
02:13 PM fragalot: bit of a bastard child kinda deal
02:13 PM gloops: UK was a dumping ground for german cars and french milk
02:13 PM _unreal: given enough time and sadly terror attacks and i'm sure more countries will fall out as well
02:14 PM gloops: terrible situation over there unreal
02:14 PM HexaCube: alright so TB6600 drivers would be fine?
02:14 PM _unreal: What blows me away is the number of terror attacks that have happend in the usa so far.... and 90% of the MEDIA is not reporting it at all
02:14 PM gloops: many would say so
02:15 PM gloops: same here unreal
02:15 PM fragalot: _unreal: that's a good thing that they aren't reporting it
02:15 PM _unreal: if all goes well this nov. when we have are mid term elections there are going to be a lot more rep then dem. congressmen in the USA.....
02:15 PM fragalot: terror feeds off of the media spreading fear
02:16 PM _unreal: if that deoes happen which is already very much so looks like its going to.... there is going to be a BIG change......
02:16 PM _unreal: fragalot, NO ITS NOT
02:16 PM _unreal: worng
02:16 PM gloops: no it isnt, the public must be informed
02:16 PM fragalot: I mean with the way that they do it here today
02:16 PM fragalot: they focus on the terrorists
02:17 PM fragalot: they focus on who those people were, and what they've done
02:17 PM fragalot: if THAT is what they do, I'd rather they don't report it at all
02:17 PM _unreal: fragalot, the media is trying to down play any terror attacks like they didnt happen. "a good leaving along" as they say...... and then say we need to have open borders LET ANY ONE IN....
02:17 PM fragalot: same with school shootings
02:17 PM _unreal: which is the same that the EU is having
02:17 PM MarcelineVQ: HexaCube: the HY-DIV268N I got were good, I've had other ones burn out completely randomly
02:17 PM fragalot: _unreal: have you ever traveled to the USA as a non-USA citizen?
02:17 PM _unreal: fragalot, thats also known is sticking one's head in the sand
02:17 PM fragalot: I have.
02:18 PM fragalot: it is FAR from "everyone gets in"
02:18 PM fragalot: going through USA customs is a freaking nightmare
02:18 PM _unreal: fragalot, more then 1k people a day are jumping the border.
02:18 PM fragalot: and that is WITH the whole ESTA agreement in place
02:18 PM HexaCube: I should add, I'm looking for rather cheap drivers, the motors are 2.8A
02:18 PM MarcelineVQ: they don't come much cheaper
02:18 PM fragalot: _unreal: Sure - but how are you realistically going to fix that
02:18 PM HexaCube: I'm considering finding a way to use the Trinamic TMC2660s but so far I've been unsuccessfullt o find those as a plug and play driver heh
02:18 PM _unreal: and we have people trying to say they should be given citizenship... dont ask who they are or find out who they are... just close your eyes and wave em in
02:18 PM fragalot: I'm not saying that unlawful immigration should be accepted
02:19 PM _unreal: for starters the new wall that is being built
02:19 PM fragalot: all it takes is a ladder and an unpoliced section
02:19 PM fragalot: or a tunnel
02:19 PM _unreal: fragalot, "youtube (next news network) "
02:20 PM _unreal: hence the new wall. VERY TALL. AND VERY deep
02:20 PM fragalot: nah, i'm watching a movie & have no stake
02:20 PM fragalot: so they dig the tunnel slightly deeper, or just go through it
02:20 PM fragalot: you are underestimating what desperate people will do
02:20 PM MrHindsight: I'm working on a trebuchet for "emergency" border crossings
02:20 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: Ha :D
02:21 PM _unreal: MrHindsight, getting in is easy.... its sticking the landing thats the trick
02:21 PM gloops: tb6600 is $5, the slightly better ones, i dunno $20?
02:21 PM MrHindsight: we have butter and cats tied to the landing pad feet
02:22 PM MrHindsight: this way it always lands feet down
02:22 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: bold move, but I see no flaw
02:22 PM HexaCube: gloops: i was surprised they're so cheap, they were much more expensive on OMC-stepperonline hehe
02:22 PM gloops: unreal its exactly the same here, anybody can just walk right in and start claiming the dole
02:22 PM HexaCube: the TMC drivers generally are really advanced
02:22 PM HexaCube: they're what's used in 3d printers :D
02:23 PM HexaCube: idk if they're well known under the cnc folks in general
02:23 PM gloops: MrHindsight a.k.a MrPrintright will know
02:23 PM _unreal: MrHindsight, I found your ammo https://image.made-in-china.com/202f0j00kEvRmKOrrycG/OEM-PVC-Inflatable-Snowfield-Water-Grass-Body-Zorb-Ball.jpg
02:23 PM fragalot: gloops: except the UK actually already has border control in place
02:24 PM gloops: fragalot we dont know whos coming in under the guise of EU citizenship
02:25 PM fragalot: true
02:26 PM gloops: you can buy a passport for 10 euros
02:26 PM _unreal: fragalot, you line up 10 random people. and pick the one thats having bad thoughts about you...
02:26 PM _unreal: good luck
02:26 PM gloops: Merkel decided to invite all of africa
02:26 PM gloops: unilaterally
02:26 PM _unreal: thats it?
02:28 PM HexaCube: so what of it? it's not like the EU can't afford to take in refugees =)
02:28 PM gloops: they arent refugees
02:29 PM HexaCube: I bet you wouldn't wan to live under the circumstances they were born in either
02:29 PM _unreal: you know its funny I was listening to a radio show last week and they where talkinga bout how russia and germany are not a threat to us... and they where talking about $$ when they pointed out that I think it was germanys GDP was less then.... maybe I'm worng have to double check but was less then clintons press campain expese
02:29 PM gloops: Hexacube if i lived in somalia and i could get to europe, id be packing my bags right now
02:30 PM fragalot: _unreal: you may want to fact check that
02:30 PM MrHindsight: not enough people give a damn about people in Africa, due to some made up invisible man in the sky story they are supposedly a cursed people
02:30 PM MrHindsight: and easy tom pick out of a crowd
02:30 PM fragalot: _unreal: because it is off by quite a lot of zero's
02:30 PM _unreal: MrHindsight, is he related to "Burning man"
02:30 PM MrHindsight: tom/to
02:31 PM MrHindsight: _unreal: no, burning man is real
02:31 PM HexaCube: USA has 60% higher GDP vs. Germany =)
02:32 PM _unreal: and even bigger gap between usa/russia
02:32 PM HexaCube: but I doubt clinton spent over 1.5 trillion on his (her? idk which one you meant) compaign :D
02:32 PM fragalot: HexaCube: the USA has 5x the GDP of germany
02:32 PM _unreal: HER
02:32 PM MrHindsight: so whats todays problem to solve? Stupidity, ignorance, racism and corruption?
02:32 PM _unreal: MrHindsight, so many choices
02:32 PM Rab: Burning Man is a hoax, devised to lure all the hippies and make:rs away for a week so the rest of us can accomplish serious business.
02:33 PM MrHindsight: forgot selfishness
02:33 PM HexaCube: fragalot: huh seems like that website was oudated? Let me look again
02:33 PM _unreal: I vote ignorance
02:33 PM fragalot: HexaCube: and given that the USA is 27x larger than germany, I don't think .de is doing too badly
02:33 PM * HexaCube smacks face
02:33 PM HexaCube: http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Germany/United-States/Economy
02:33 PM gloops: africa was doing ok under our guidance, 3 crops a year
02:33 PM gloops: now barely 1
02:33 PM HexaCube: " Budget > Revenues"
02:33 PM HexaCube: is what i looked at
02:33 PM HexaCube: sorry :P
02:33 PM fragalot: HexaCube: :)
02:34 PM fragalot: Rab: ha :D
02:34 PM _unreal: I'm getting real anxious for my parts
02:35 PM gloops: the first 6 weeks is most nerve wracking
02:35 PM _unreal: ?
02:35 PM gloops: from china?
02:35 PM fragalot: _unreal: when you order stuff from china
02:35 PM fragalot: the first 6 weeks are the worst
02:35 PM MrHindsight: how do I know that there really is a problem with "immigration" in the EU?
02:35 PM fragalot: and then you forget you even ordered them
02:35 PM _unreal: I dont think much of anything is comming from china
02:35 PM gloops: anyway bbl
02:36 PM fragalot: another few weeks later, they surprise show up
02:36 PM _unreal: I do have a few parts I ordered from chana but they are in slow transit
02:36 PM MrHindsight: thats the fun of ordering from China via slow post
02:36 PM _unreal: and not important. I paid for fast travel on everything I need asap
02:36 PM MrHindsight: by the time it shows up you have forgotten about it
02:37 PM _unreal: I cant wait for parts for my DIY motor contollers. I'm finally building the damn things. I have a bunch of sla7024's and 26's
02:37 PM _unreal: going to get my mini mill sitting behind me going
02:37 PM syyl: when random china-mail packages show up after weeks and weeks
02:37 PM syyl: "who the f. did order that?!"
02:37 PM fragalot: haha
02:38 PM syyl: "what was i thinking"
02:38 PM MrHindsight: http://www.sdw-net.me/channels/France-%C3%94.html Ô whats this symbol for?
02:38 PM fragalot: syyl: especially when you get to the padding you added just because
02:38 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: TV channel?
02:39 PM MrHindsight: France Ô
02:39 PM MrHindsight: ^^
02:39 PM fragalot: it's just an O with an accent ^ over it
02:39 PM fragalot: which is the TV channel's name
02:39 PM MrHindsight: how is it different than o or O?
02:39 PM fragalot: pronounciation
02:39 PM MrHindsight: oh
02:39 PM syyl: it has an accent over it
02:39 PM syyl: ;)
02:40 PM syyl: (sry. got a part time job as cpt. obvious)
02:40 PM _unreal: dieing to get this going https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipN0PJNIhsdLWV0suLwifby3I7DUetpdpmPybMvaWq6HqrDBZEGqSNDdCal_4F3BjA?key=NHdNaE52MDJwQWVvaWlXREJ3bkg5MUxYMm1rNmh3
02:40 PM MrHindsight: wooden cnc router?
02:40 PM _unreal: thats G10
02:40 PM _unreal: the very base is wood
02:41 PM _unreal: but the machine is g10
02:41 PM * syyl gets itchy just by thinking of g10
02:41 PM fragalot: man I really want Schenker to let me know my mill is fine tomorrow >.<
02:41 PM _unreal: syyl, I take it you know what g10 is
02:41 PM syyl: yes.
02:41 PM syyl: we used to cut it on the table saw with a diamond tipped blade and mill a fair bit of that stuff
02:42 PM MrHindsight: not even FR-4?
02:42 PM _unreal: MrHindsight, ?
02:42 PM syyl: for spot-weld fixtures and high-current test jigs
02:42 PM _unreal: diamond tipped. ouch worng blade to choose
02:42 PM syyl: absolutely right blade :)
02:42 PM syyl: lasted vorever
02:42 PM _unreal: no....
02:43 PM _unreal: one sec
02:43 PM _unreal: https://www.ediamondtools.com/products/all-purpose-diamond-blades?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google_shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQjwn4ncBRCaARIsAFD5-gV2HnItUTRFqG9vNcs_tR35ahwuEL6w4983ii1WL2LssLCDqBVzCLwaAk9BEALw_wcB
02:43 PM fragalot: syyl: just because it works fine and causes no issues whatsoever does mean it's a good choice!
02:44 PM syyl: Oo
02:44 PM syyl: :D
02:44 PM _unreal: syyl, That blade right there will cut 1" G10 as fast as you can feed it
02:44 PM syyl: wanna get poked in the eye? :D
02:44 PM _unreal: and it will never wear out
02:44 PM syyl: just as a pcd tipped saw blade ;)
02:44 PM _unreal: and it WONT burn g10
02:44 PM fragalot: _unreal: so.. syyl shouldn't use a diamond tipped blade, but instead use a diamond blade?
02:44 PM syyl: just as a pcd tipped saw blade ;)
02:45 PM _unreal: fragalot, you dont use TOOTHED blades on HARD materials
02:46 PM syyl: tell that the jepson guys.
02:46 PM _unreal: syyl, any thing designed for tile will cut fiberglass faster then anything designed to cut wood
02:46 PM _unreal: try it
02:47 PM _unreal: prove me worng
02:47 PM syyl: haha
02:47 PM syyl: nope :)
02:47 PM _unreal: I'm only a marine engineer
02:47 PM _unreal: went to school for it
02:47 PM syyl: for g10 sawing?
02:47 PM _unreal: and fiberglass
02:47 PM _unreal: palm to face what is the main material
02:49 PM _unreal: its glass.... a very very hard substance!... a tile saw is a very very hard crystal more or less.... guess what. glass and crystal are very similar
02:49 PM _unreal: There for the saw that works best for ONE should work very well for the OTHER....
02:49 PM _unreal: because there characteristics are nearly identical
02:50 PM syyl: so you tell me that a grinding wheel running at relatively low surface speed, with no space for chips is faster than a saw blade running a very high surface speed with a large chipload and large room for the chip?
02:50 PM syyl: fine :)
02:51 PM _unreal: syyl, if your going to use a jigsaw you use a rasping carbid blade...
02:51 PM MrHindsight: is this true for all crystal structures?
02:52 PM _unreal: MrHindsight, I cant claim every one....
02:52 PM syyl: fortunately i dont hate my life enough to go for g10 with a jigsaw
02:52 PM _unreal: syyl, if you put one of those diamond blades in your table saw or smaller one in a hand held device... it will blow you away
02:52 PM _unreal: how fast it will cut
02:52 PM MrHindsight: I just rub glass fibers directly into my skin
02:53 PM syyl: i am quite happy with the feedrate we get on the tablesaw
02:53 PM syyl: (felder sliding table saw, 5kW motor)
02:54 PM _unreal: syyl, as I said try it.....
02:54 PM MrHindsight: https://youtu.be/gJN1vqJGivI?t=24s
02:55 PM MrHindsight: Solid Carbide Fiberglass Burr Bit
02:55 PM _unreal: toothed blades have a high likely hood of kicking g10
02:55 PM syyl: i call bs
02:55 PM syyl: comes down to standard tablesaw safety
02:56 PM _unreal: MrHindsight, I use those all the time as well they are called "rotory rasps" the 1/8th shank ones for dremel are great for cutting fiberglass
02:56 PM syyl: hey, they are a toothed tool, and they work great?
02:57 PM flyback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAFvwualXrs
02:57 PM _unreal: That is a micro tothed tool
02:57 PM syyl: i want pizza
02:57 PM syyl: thanks, flyback :(
02:57 PM _unreal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj9mteIGgBM
02:58 PM flyback: sync, BMCC
02:58 PM flyback: syyl,
02:58 PM _unreal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SwXvYc2wVI
02:58 PM _unreal: syyl, those are for you
03:00 PM _unreal: syyl, I bet you cant find a video of someone cutting fiberglass with a toothed saw blade
03:02 PM _unreal: I bet NO ONE can find a video of someone using a toothed blade for cutting FRP's
03:02 PM syyl: yeah, because yt is the world ;)
03:03 PM fragalot: syyl: quick, upload one to prove _unreal wrong
03:03 PM _unreal: lol
03:03 PM syyl: i think i can waste my time more usefull
03:04 PM _unreal: _unreal, ?
03:04 PM _unreal is now known as _unreal_
03:04 PM Deejay: syyl, -l
03:04 PM syyl: thanks :)
03:05 PM * _unreal_ still waits for a SINGLE example of someone using a toothed rotory saw to cut fiberglass
03:06 PM syyl: tell my why you are so annoyed by someone doing it a different way than you think is the right way? :D
03:06 PM _unreal_: syyl, thats standard machinist knowledge... the harder the material is that your cutting.. the finer the "TOOTH pitch"
03:06 PM syyl: no
03:06 PM _unreal_: I'm not I'm getting entertainment watching the resistance
03:06 PM syyl: toothcount generally has nothing to do with the hardness of the material you cut
03:07 PM syyl: no matter if we talk sawblades or endmills
03:07 PM _unreal_: show me a link
03:07 PM _unreal_: end mills are rotory side cut
03:07 PM _unreal_: I'm talking saw
03:07 PM syyl: same cutting mechanics. mr. engineer
03:08 PM _unreal_: you have to factor heat and other aspects
03:08 PM syyl: aha?
03:09 PM SpeedEvil: https://youtu.be/iaKwSSgxLHE?t=247 _unreal_
03:13 PM _unreal_: cant see the blade
03:16 PM _unreal_: syyl, these are amazing for grinding https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Flumberjocks.com%2Fassets%2Fpictures%2Freviews%2F470191.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Flumberjocks.com%2Freviews%2F3828&docid=eSsM1Gt-cTtuuM&tbnid=s1i3BMPX93Ax-M%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjS-NqbxIvdAhVOd6wKHTwPAWcQMwiJASgEMAQ..i&w=900&h=675&bih=935&biw=1920&q=harbor%20freight%20carbide%204%20inch%20grinder&ved=0ahUKEwjS-NqbxIvdAhVOd6wKHTwPAWcQMwiJASgEMAQ&
03:16 PM _unreal_: iact=mrc&uact=8
03:16 PM _unreal_: damn thats a long link
03:16 PM syyl: yeah, nice for removing thinset
03:16 PM _unreal_: thinset?
03:17 PM syyl: tile glue?
03:17 PM _unreal_: those eat fiberglass like butter
03:17 PM syyl: i dont doubt that
03:17 PM syyl: but i dont want to do that. if i have to use something like that, my machining was quite off ;)
03:18 PM Rab: China sells tungsten carbide blades for cutting PCBs, which don't seem to have any teeth at all; not sure how these work: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Performance-Tungsten-carbide-saw-blade_522823441.html
03:19 PM fragalot: pizza cutter style
03:19 PM fragalot: Rab: I think they're meant to be used in those paper cutter style machines
03:20 PM fragalot: where the wheel runs along a hardened edge
03:20 PM Rab: Yeah, I guess rotating shear action.
03:20 PM _unreal_: rab its prob just stupid sharp
03:20 PM _unreal_: HEAT
03:20 PM _unreal_: syyl, we use to use disks like this https://www.ctisupply.com/products/3mtm-fibre-disc-988c-5-in-x-7-8-in-36-25-per-inner-100-per-case-boxed?variant=31883774354&gclid=Cj0KCQjwn4ncBRCaARIsAFD5-gVmld8TWHoAFIfwyNuAVEOasu8lPcK1tb1rJWOi3Gfm7VjCpaKD3EcaAnvOEALw_wcB
03:20 PM syyl: oh please stop highlighting me
03:20 PM fragalot: heat is a terrible way o cut fr4
03:21 PM _unreal_: now my company only uses those to break the OXIDE layer of new fiberglass layup then use the carbide one's to finish. they never ware out
03:21 PM _unreal_: fragalot, breath breath my son
03:22 PM syyl: but speaking of grinding
03:22 PM syyl: finaly getting my t&c grinder properly setup \o/
03:22 PM fragalot: :o
03:22 PM syyl: http://gtwr.de/div/knuth_werkzeugschleifmaschine_111.jpg
03:23 PM fragalot: I wish I had the space to put one of those
03:23 PM fragalot: they sound like incredibly versatile machines
03:23 PM syyl: not absolutely happy with the finish on cylindrical grinding
03:23 PM syyl: http://gtwr.de/div/knuth_werkzeugschleifmaschine_113.jpg
03:23 PM syyl: upper left two test diameters are ground on my machine, bellow is a standard hss spotting drill
03:23 PM _unreal_: oh Rab PCB I read that as pvc
03:24 PM _unreal_: thats prob a pressure system..
03:24 PM _unreal_: cuts the board like a pizza roller to a pizza pie
03:24 PM fragalot: syyl: is that the machine's fault or the wheel?
03:24 PM fragalot: syyl: (or yours :P)
03:24 PM syyl: youre chaning setups all day on such a machine, fragalot ;)
03:24 PM syyl: for every stupid task you do 10 minutes of setup :D
03:24 PM fragalot: lol
03:24 PM _unreal_: fragalot, stop highlighting hinm
03:25 PM syyl: i am not sure, i think i isolated it down to dressing the wheel and speed of the workhead
03:26 PM _unreal_: I some times use my "pen grinder" its just an air powered dremel.. but it will do 60,000 RPM.. that and a rotary rasp bit and it cuts frp's like butter DEEP TO
03:30 PM JT-Shop: some of my shop lights can't be converted to led... they don't have any wires inside
03:31 PM syyl: Oo
03:32 PM fragalot: JT-Shop: so add wires?
03:32 PM JT-Shop: and if you drill a hole in the top center it kills the light lol
03:33 PM JT-Shop: there is no tunnel and tombstones don't have a place for a wire
03:33 PM fragalot: guess you're just going to have to replace the whole unit then :P
03:34 PM JT-Shop: yea I only have 3-4 of that type the rest of the zillion are the regular kind
03:34 PM _unreal_: fragalot, how much ya want to bet syy will end up getting a diamond blade and testing LOL
03:35 PM fragalot: who cares
03:36 PM fragalot: if the blade used today works fine, and is also usable for other materials that pass through that need to get cut why bother
03:57 PM MrHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6sgGXXYdEU Ball Mill Critical Speed & Working Principle
03:59 PM XXCoder: interesting
04:01 PM * fragalot has noticed this effect all too many times in his rotary tumbler polishing station
04:02 PM fragalot: it has 3 speeds, 1 is so slow it does nothing, 2 is a bit shy of a good speed, and 3 is waaaaay too fast and the balls just stick to the sides and the drum launches itself
04:02 PM XXCoder: lol
04:04 PM Deejay: gn8
04:12 PM MrHindsight: who makes a low cost planetary gear system? https://youtu.be/TWEmmPTea-8?t=38s
04:13 PM MrHindsight: buy vs build\
04:16 PM MrHindsight: maybe modify an automatic transmission to suit
04:20 PM MrHindsight: https://sci-hub.tw/10.1039/c3cs35455e
04:45 PM _unreal_: MrHindsight, some hand drills use planetary gear systems
04:46 PM _unreal_: What is the need
04:51 PM MrHindsight: see video in link ^^
04:53 PM MrHindsight: _unreal_: ^
05:23 PM Tom_L: they don't have a source for them yet?
05:26 PM Tom_L: sdp-si makes gearheads but i don't see just the gears
05:27 PM Tom_L: https://www.matexgears.com/
10:51 PM XXCoder: raiiiiinnnnning
10:51 PM XXCoder: humidity 75% my room dang
10:51 PM XXCoder: 75f 75%
10:52 PM pink_vampire: wow!
10:52 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder:
10:52 PM XXCoder: small amount of smoke that still remain should be finally wahsed out
10:52 PM enleth: 95% here, same temperature
10:53 PM XXCoder: outside or in your room?
10:53 PM enleth: it's been a damn sauna here non-stop for a month now
10:53 PM enleth: fucking everywhere
10:53 PM enleth: at least it got a bit colder
10:54 PM pink_vampire: I was the whole day on the phone, the irc look soo limited
10:54 PM XXCoder: its also quite old
10:55 PM enleth: but it was 30-35C at ~95% for two weeks, with stuff heating up to 45C in direct sunlight
10:55 PM XXCoder: still around because nothing beats irc on longevity
10:55 PM enleth: last floor here, flat bitumic (black) roof
10:56 PM enleth: I just realized that roof is *literally* pitch black
10:57 PM enleth: it is made of pitch
10:58 PM MarcelineVQ: it was hot enough here recently that there's puddles of creosoot at the bottoms of the buildings made of old rail ties
11:00 PM enleth: MarcelineVQ: sounds like a wonderfully fun fire hazard
11:00 PM MarcelineVQ: Mentioning that because at a glance you'd think it was tar/pitch/bitumic
11:01 PM MarcelineVQ: It's a lot less flammable in the wood impregnation form than a person expects but bewteen this and all the wood fencing on the property cracking/splitting it's been a real ugly summer
11:02 PM MarcelineVQ: Not to mention all the fires but that's not exactly news these past few years
11:06 PM enleth: well, that's what you get after 200 years of putting more energy into a highly unstable system that normally settled into temporary equilibriums on a ten thousand year scale
11:07 PM enleth: it goes a wee bit more swingy
11:12 PM XXCoder: enleth: ironic that we have blacks blacker than pitch now and pitch black is supposely to be ultimate in blackness
11:54 PM fragalot: mornin'