#linuxcnc Logs

Aug 22 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:04 AM Valen: not super great really, i mean personally fine but 100% of the state is in drought and there are 75 bush fires going and no rain on the long term forecast
12:20 AM Wolf__: great, who let _unreal_ in here =)
12:27 AM Wolf__: so, opinions… Openbuild V-slot linear rail with acetal wheels, belt driven with nema 23 420oz-in, bad idea for a small/quick and dirty plasma cnc build?
12:28 AM Wolf__: tho I’m thinking the 420 oz-in steppers might be way overkill lol
01:08 AM hazzy-lab1 is now known as hazzy-lab
01:33 AM fragalot: M0rnin'
01:34 AM Wolf__: morning
01:38 AM Wolf__: so, opinions… Openbuild V-slot linear rail with acetal wheels, belt driven with nema 23, bad idea for a small/quick and dirty plasma cnc build?
01:39 AM fragalot: plasma is very forgiving in terms of general jankyness
01:40 AM Wolf__: this I know lol
01:41 AM CaptHindsight: how much travel?
01:42 AM Wolf__: 36-48”x20-24” depending on how I feel
01:42 AM CaptHindsight: relatively small
01:42 AM Wolf__: very, simple dirty gantry
01:42 AM CaptHindsight: well you can do it well or poorly depending on how you put t-slot together
01:43 AM CaptHindsight: and the sizes chosen
01:43 AM Wolf__: seeing I’ll have dead space at one end of the long axis I can use big corner braces, thinking 40x40mm for the gantry beam
01:44 AM Wolf__: 1500mm long C-box for the long beams/sides
01:45 AM CaptHindsight: C is channel https://www.metalsdepot.com/aluminum-products/aluminum-channel-6061
01:46 AM Wolf__: https://openbuildspartstore.com/c-beam-linear-rail/
01:46 AM Wolf__: i meant c-beam
01:49 AM Wolf__: thinking modified version of this https://openbuilds.com/builds/7050-sphinx.5331/
01:49 AM Wolf__: just, belt drive and open bottom
01:49 AM CaptHindsight: http://www.pbclinear.com/Integral-V-Linear-Guide-Technology
01:49 AM CaptHindsight: where they got their ideas
01:50 AM Deejay: moin
01:50 AM Wolf__: cool
01:50 AM CaptHindsight: you can look over the PCB site and see what they use for given lengths and strengths
01:51 AM CaptHindsight: I met the openbuilds guy at some maker fare a few years ago, he acted like he invented extrusions
01:51 AM Wolf__: seeing guys are building routers with the same parts I think I’m safe lol
01:52 AM CaptHindsight: I can build a car with cheese...
01:52 AM CaptHindsight: doesn't mean it's a good design
01:53 AM Wolf__: yeah but with almost zero side loads with plasma torch
01:53 AM Wolf__: bad router design shouldn’t be too bad for me =)
01:56 AM Wolf__: thinking short and stout build, seeing I dont have a long spindle to deal with
01:58 AM Wolf__: its going to be usually running at 27-86IPM as well
01:59 AM Wolf__: actually I might go with that c-beam for the gantry as well so I can keep most of the rollers on the back side away from the torch blowback
02:20 AM Wolf__: CaptHindsight: this is my application for this cnc plasma, center plate is 0.5”, tube is 0.25” wall https://i.imgur.com/PKS1kDE.jpg
04:42 AM XXCoder: wore mask all day at work. coughed way less. yay. tomorrow I will do it again, because I dont feel like trying to cough my lungs out.
04:42 AM XXCoder: smoke suck
04:48 AM speedevil: :)
04:52 AM fragalot: XXCoder: You mean you're not filtering the air through a cigarette?
04:53 AM XXCoder: cigs would kill me
04:53 AM fragalot: :P
04:53 AM XXCoder: not in longer term cancer stuff nh
04:53 AM XXCoder: more directly as my lungs suck
04:56 AM rmu|w: wouldn't lungs that don't suck be a problem
04:57 AM XXCoder: lol
05:03 AM fragalot_ is now known as fragalot
05:19 AM jthornton: morning
05:20 AM XXCoder: yo
05:20 AM XXCoder: happy smokey day to you
05:20 AM jthornton: 66°F and clear here
05:33 AM Tom_L: 69F Hi 74
05:33 AM XXCoder: 89f, partially cloudy, smoke like god is smoking and blowing in here
05:34 AM XXCoder: air quality 166 here now
05:34 AM XXCoder: in danger but not deadly zone
05:35 AM jthornton: 74 for a high nice
05:35 AM Tom_L: yeah, kinda hard to believe
05:35 AM XXCoder: wed will be last hot day looks like. tues is next sunny day but it only reaches 74f
05:36 AM XXCoder: in ;east work provides n95 masks
05:53 AM jthornton: what's a n95 mask?
05:56 AM fragalot: jthornton: fine particulate filter
05:56 AM jthornton: ah
05:56 AM fragalot: (I think)
06:07 AM XXCoder: yep
06:08 AM XXCoder: its rated for smog or smoke or like
06:08 AM XXCoder: n100 is even finer
06:29 AM gonzo__ is now known as gonzo_
06:59 AM * jthornton needs to hook some wires up so the steppers spin
08:35 AM skunkworks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shkv0kA-pYg
08:42 AM robotustra: skunkworks, super cool
08:42 AM robotustra: I want something like this
08:43 AM gregcnc: i wonder how much effort was involved in getting that to work
08:54 AM gregcnc: eyy this was a suggested video. are these tormach issues recent? https://youtu.be/FtnaqJuJ9kw
08:56 AM speedevil is now known as SpeedEvil
08:57 AM skunkworks: I would guess lots of effort.. see he is controlling menus too
08:58 AM gregcnc: i was going to try to find a thread on the russian forums
09:29 AM cradek: gregcnc: I quit watching at "I'm not a machinist and we don't actually have an on-staff machinist"
09:45 AM JT-Shop: yea a guy just bought my gas string trimmer
10:04 AM flyback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3wPBcmSb2U
10:28 AM gloops: whats the crack with free use of fusion360 - download trial version, then what? (when it expires)
10:29 AM MarcelineVQ: it's a lot simpler to just get a individual lisence since it doesn't currently cost anything
10:31 AM gloops: ahh yeah, can see it now - startup or hobbyist
10:31 AM gloops: anyone earning <100k
10:31 AM MarcelineVQ: but typically in software cracks turn off or block checking liscences or connecting to the online service, so in the case of fusion you'd lose the ability to update or to save your designs in their cloud. not that the latter is important
10:37 AM Jymmm: Got a new 110/220 generator, want to "backfeed" using the L1430 I installed in the garage last year, but ONLY for 110V (not 220V at all). Besides disabling mains, and disconnecting all 220V appliances at the breaker, is there anything else I should be aware of (besides it's a bad thing, this I'm aware of) ?
10:52 AM gregcnc: Jymmm I would think only half of your 110V will be live that way?
10:52 AM fragalot: o hallo
10:53 AM jdh: every other breaker
10:54 AM gregcnc: that's what I'm thinking
10:55 AM roycroft: it would be best to use a manual transfer switch so that you can select the circuit(s) to feed
10:56 AM roycroft: the switch also ensures isolation of generator power from the mains, which is a code requirement and an important safety requirement
10:57 AM jdh: and way more painful to install than a suicide cord and an outlet
10:58 AM fragalot: whatever you do, make sure there is NO WAY at all possible for you to accidentally backfeed the grid
10:58 AM fragalot: transformers work both ways
10:58 AM jdh: heh
10:58 AM fragalot: and you do not want to kill a line worker
10:58 AM roycroft: yes, this is a SERIOUS safety issue
10:58 AM roycroft: you would not get a slap on the wrist or a fine if your non-isolated backfeed setup is discovered
10:58 AM roycroft: you would have your mains immediately disconnected by the power utility
10:59 AM fragalot: and don't think that "I'll just switch off the main breaker first, don't worry" is 'good enough'
10:59 AM jdh: and if you are going to do it, plug the 220 in
10:59 AM fragalot: roycroft: if not trialed in court for attempted murder
10:59 AM JT-Shop: hmm solar equipped houses back feed the mains all the time
11:00 AM fragalot: JT-Shop: those devices switch off if there is no grid
11:00 AM gregcnc: no grid goes down they disconnect
11:00 AM fragalot: a little known fact
11:00 AM roycroft: sure, and they have controllers that manage that
11:00 AM gregcnc: I thought it was a well known fact?
11:00 AM fragalot: gregcnc: I know a lot of people that say "I'm not worried if power goes out, i've got solar panels"
11:00 AM fragalot: so.. not THAT well known :D
11:01 AM gregcnc: well you can't help braindead
11:01 AM miss0r|office: goodevening
11:01 AM JT-Shop: my friends dad got a $-4 bill for electric
11:01 AM fragalot: JT-Shop: :P sadly that's not a thing here
11:01 AM miss0r|office: JT-shop: let me have the recepie for that. I would love that! :D
11:01 AM roycroft: 1. invest $25k in a solar array
11:02 AM fragalot: there were some governmental "whooopsies" that included a fixed payment if you had solar
11:02 AM roycroft: 2. wait 20 years for roi
11:02 AM gregcnc: more solar than you need and a utility that pays well
11:02 AM fragalot: but they invented new taxes because they made a mistake with that
11:02 AM fragalot: utilities do not pay you for what you generate, and in fact you now pay for the privilige
11:02 AM miss0r|office: roycroft; meh. I would've. But my roof could not support the additional weight
11:02 AM fragalot: the only savings you have today in belgium is the electricity you don't consume
11:03 AM fragalot: i've not bothered with solar because it would take me 24yrs, before they invented the new taxes
11:03 AM fragalot: fixed costs are too high compared to the power cost
11:03 AM fragalot: for solar heating, the calculation was ~45 years
11:03 AM fragalot: :D
11:03 AM roycroft: in oregon, the utility is required to pay for any the power fed back to it, and pay at new generation rates
11:03 AM fragalot: roycroft: here your meter just runs backwards, and you only pay for what you consume
11:03 AM JT-Shop: they deducted the $4 off his gas bill
11:03 AM roycroft: i.e. at the rate they would pay for power from a new generation system, not the cheap bpa hydro power rate
11:04 AM fragalot: if it rolls back too far when they come take the reading, you've just lost that because that is their new reference
11:04 AM gloops: well if the fusion360 install complexity is anything to go by, im not looking forward to using the app
11:04 AM fragalot: gloops: ha :D
11:04 AM * JT-Shop notices it is lunch minute time
11:04 AM fragalot: miss0r|office: guess what's coming tomorrow?
11:04 AM miss0r|office: Another email telling you the mill is delayed yet again? :)
11:05 AM fragalot: !
11:05 AM * fragalot checks his mailbox
11:05 AM fragalot: No.
11:05 AM Jymmm: gregcnc: The idea of using L1430, is for distribution purposes only - to "feed" both sides of the service to the 110V circuits
11:05 AM miss0r|office: You better hit refresh all night ;P
11:06 AM fragalot: :D
11:06 AM miss0r|office: So, did you get another day off?
11:06 AM fragalot: yes
11:06 AM miss0r|office: nice
11:07 AM fragalot: cunt
11:07 AM roycroft: you can buy a manual transfer switch for <$300
11:07 AM miss0r|office: wtf?!
11:07 AM roycroft: and they're really easy to wire
11:07 AM fragalot: miss0r|office: just got your email :D
11:07 AM miss0r|office: haha
11:07 AM Jymmm: roycroft: But it's wiring it into the panel that's the rough part.
11:07 AM miss0r|office: I wasn't fast enough to hit send when you checked before... Did you atleast get a tiny 'oh shit' feeling? then it would be worth it :D
11:07 AM fragalot: perhaps
11:08 AM roycroft: it's not that hard
11:08 AM miss0r|office: close enough
11:08 AM fragalot: does anyone know Ich's real name btw?
11:08 AM miss0r|office: fragalot: Also... I got a price for the PF1...
11:10 AM gloops: yeah its thomas something or other
11:10 AM Jymmm: roycroft: Right now, just looking at making a backfeed cable as I have the connecotrs and wire
11:10 AM gloops: thomas lothar maybe
11:10 AM Jymmm: roycroft: It's taken two years just to get the generator.
11:10 AM fragalot: gloops: thanks - was just checking I wasn't unknowingly buying that schaublin from him :D -- emails are in the same style of speaking, and they also talked about 'the camp was closed' etc
11:10 AM gloops: Sammel Lothar
11:10 AM roycroft: and of all the wonky things one can do with electrical wiring, directly backfeeding a breaker panel with a generator is the wonkiest and most dangerous
11:11 AM miss0r|office: hahaha
11:11 AM gloops: i wouldnt be surprised if Ichs has several pseudonyms
11:11 AM roycroft: i always recommend that folks do electrical work to code, but i am willing to overlook a lot of things that aren't super scary
11:11 AM fragalot: Jymmm: do. not. redneck this.
11:12 AM roycroft: i could never overlook directly backfeeding a breaker panel like that
11:12 AM roycroft: like, if i was certain you were going to do it i'd quite possibly make an attempt to identify you and contact your local electrical inspector that you're doing it
11:12 AM roycroft: that's how bad an idea it is
11:13 AM roycroft: just don't do it, please
11:14 AM roycroft: if you can't afford the transfer switch at the moment, or are unable to wire one in properly, get yourself some long extension cords and use those for now
11:14 AM fragalot: ^
11:17 AM roycroft: seriously, if your power utility or an electrical inspector found out you did that, the first thing that would happen is that your power would be turned off at the meter
11:17 AM roycroft: then the fines would be issued
11:17 AM roycroft: and likely your power would not be turned back on until your entire wiring plant was inspected and determined to be up to code
11:18 AM roycroft: and any previously unpermitted work would have to be permitted, and permit fees and fines paid for that work
11:18 AM gloops: wow, after harvesting my personal data for 30 minutes, spanning back several generations no doubt, i finally get to a drawing screen
11:19 AM gregcnc: gloops what did it cost?
11:19 AM gloops: so far - nothing
11:26 AM gloops: got a few videos to watch methinks
12:02 PM Todd_Z: hi
12:20 PM fragalot: 'sup
12:21 PM fragalot: miss0r|office: how did you like our political system?
12:24 PM ziper: lol... the techno isel mini router that went for a couple hundred at auction is now listed for 1200 on craigslist
12:57 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: When you're around ping me
01:09 PM fragalot: gloops: did you get it to work yet?
01:10 PM gloops: oh yeah its working, ive only had a quick play though
01:10 PM gloops: ill go through the auodesk tutorials - maybe start later
01:10 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: p i n g
01:12 PM MarcelineVQ: autodesk tutorials arne't so amaze
01:12 PM gloops: hey what about this fragalot - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26014387
01:12 PM gloops: The extent of corruption in Europe is "breathtaking" and it costs the EU economy at least 120bn euros (£99bn) annually
01:12 PM MarcelineVQ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5tp4QXciK4 isn't too bad, not amazing audio
01:12 PM MarcelineVQ: gloops: ^
01:13 PM gloops: thanks MarcelineVQ ill have a look
01:14 PM fragalot: gloops: looks like an accurate map of it if you ask me
01:14 PM gloops: it actually looks fairly straightforward, just getting to grips with new interface
01:14 PM fragalot: it is very straightforward
01:15 PM fragalot: f360 is pretty good if you've not been pampered by Inventor suite
01:15 PM MarcelineVQ: That was my biggest problem with it, I used inventor 15 years ago
01:15 PM MarcelineVQ: and fusion still doesn't have some of the feature that had
01:16 PM fragalot: MarcelineVQ: yeah, but if you haven't actually ever used Inventor, so you don't know what you're missing,.. it's pretty good
01:16 PM MarcelineVQ: totally
01:16 PM fragalot: the cloud & subscription part of it sucks ass though which would make me not want to use it on a professional level
01:16 PM gloops: well, it wont be my main drawing app, just some features i want to use, but may as well learn all the basics of it
01:16 PM MarcelineVQ: Allthough working with parameters is really limited given that it's a parametric modeling program :( specifically with assemblies
01:17 PM fragalot: MarcelineVQ: Yup - again, if you don't know you can't miss it
01:26 PM roycroft: are we talking about fusion 360 again?
01:26 PM fragalot: we were
01:26 PM fragalot: it's over now, you can come back
01:26 PM roycroft: it's useless
01:26 PM roycroft: try using it in offline mode
01:27 PM fragalot: it has an offline mode?
01:27 PM CaptHindsight: similar to Off mode
01:27 PM fragalot: Ha.
01:28 PM roycroft: it does
01:28 PM fragalot: like I said - i'd never use it for anything process critical or any form of professional level
01:28 PM roycroft: and since i work disconnected from the internet frequently, offline mode is mandatory
01:28 PM CaptHindsight: I don't want my applications on the cloud, only my head
01:28 PM roycroft: i'm still looking for decent cam software
01:29 PM roycroft: i gave fusion 360 a go but gave up very quickly
01:29 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: cloud, or subscription services have no place in industry
01:29 PM fragalot: imho
01:29 PM MarcelineVQ: Works fine offline for me, not that I'm some special metric. It's a confusing piece of software though because it's remaking from scratch things that other autodesk products already do, I don't really get who the product is for in that sense or in particular how it helps autodesk. they're paying engineers to remake poorer imitations of things, what is the model
01:29 PM roycroft: as in i installed it, loaded it up, put it in offline mode, and found it utterly useless
01:29 PM fragalot: things need to work for far too long for that to be an option
01:30 PM roycroft: go in offline mode and try to load a bolt from the library
01:30 PM fragalot: given that it's an online library.. yeah
01:30 PM fragalot: I couldn't even do that in online mode, tbh
01:30 PM roycroft: are you going to design every part from scratch every time?
01:30 PM fragalot: it keeps directing you to mcmaster which is not available outside the USA
01:31 PM roycroft: do you really want your productivity to go down by 99% or so?
01:31 PM gloops: i suppose it depends what you want to do, and how much you want to spend
01:31 PM fragalot: roycroft: hell no - that's why I use Inventor :P
01:31 PM gloops: with some skill and guile, it is possible to cover all bases with free apps
01:32 PM roycroft: i tried to make bamcam work the other day, as it's relatively inexpensive
01:32 PM roycroft: but it sucks
01:32 PM roycroft: won't run properly on linu
01:32 PM roycroft: x
01:32 PM roycroft: they don't answer emails
01:32 PM roycroft: i'm not going to pay for a product that's not supported
01:32 PM roycroft: pycam is wonky as hell
01:32 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: it's your sworn duty as a citizen to share everything you do with the cloud
01:33 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: sharing is caring
01:33 PM roycroft: as i always say
01:33 PM CaptHindsight: it's for your protection
01:33 PM MarcelineVQ: Currently you can have things you make be available offline, but it's missing another huge inventor feature I recall from literal decades ago which is a vault of hardware you just plunk in numbers for and it spits out a model with the exact specs I gave it. want a 1/2-13 3" long screw? click click done
01:33 PM fragalot: except when it's corporate data
01:33 PM roycroft: clouds are pretty
01:33 PM fragalot: but the sharing part isn't what bothers me
01:33 PM roycroft: but eventually they will rain on you
01:33 PM JT-Shop: hmm none of my linux pc's can view the network...
01:33 PM fragalot: it's what happens in 15 years
01:33 PM fragalot: it's what happens when that cloud srvice inevitably stops
01:33 PM gloops: after all how can they taylor your CAD experience if they have got your facebook account
01:33 PM fragalot: we still use compilers from companies that went out of business 17 years ago
01:33 PM gloops: havent
01:33 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: other clouds copy those clouds
01:33 PM fragalot: just because it's the only one that works
01:33 PM roycroft: or when autodesk decide some day that the "free" version of fusion 360 now costs money, and you can't get your files that are in the cloud until you pay up
01:34 PM roycroft: that will happen before they disappear it completely
01:34 PM fragalot: roycroft: you know that before you sign up
01:34 PM CaptHindsight: your data is still in the clouds but you just can't access it, only those with cloud access
01:34 PM fragalot: it's when autodesk decides to shut it down
01:34 PM fragalot: THAT is the problem
01:34 PM fragalot: autodesk discontinues f360.. it just stops working
01:34 PM fragalot: your files won't open
01:34 PM fragalot: now what
01:34 PM roycroft: also, the files need to be stored in a common format, like stl
01:34 PM roycroft: or at least exported in a common format without lossiness
01:35 PM fragalot: STL is lossy
01:35 PM fragalot: none of your parameters are there
01:35 PM fragalot: none of the features that built up the original part are there
01:35 PM roycroft: depending on a single vendor with a proprietary file format is not wise
01:35 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: you sound like an old person, somebody that doesn't send every waking moment to their social tribe on snapchat
01:35 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: i'm far from old, i'm just sane
01:36 PM roycroft: if you're sane you must be old :)
01:36 PM fragalot: roycroft: I don't mind a proprietary file, IF the license I have is perpetual and does not depend on a remote license server
01:36 PM CaptHindsight: look out your window, are there piles of dead children?
01:36 PM roycroft: as long as you're sure you can run the software forever
01:36 PM fragalot: roycroft: hence perpetual
01:36 PM CaptHindsight: see the kids are safe
01:37 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: there's a morgue across the street and a cemetary next door.. so.. kinda?
01:37 PM roycroft: what about when you no longer have an os that can run the software?
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: yeah but no piles
01:37 PM roycroft: and when you no longer have hardware that can run the os that can run the software?
01:37 PM gloops: autodesk isnt going to lose all those customers
01:37 PM fragalot: roycroft: hardware can be fixed, OS's do go out of style, but there are ways to still get it to work
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: winders is moving to a full subscription model
01:38 PM fragalot: like I said, we already use software from companies that went out of business or have been resold dozens of time
01:38 PM fragalot: some of whih require some workarounds to get it to run, but it still runs
01:38 PM gloops: and when windows does that - none of these apps will work unless you are a windows subsciber
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: you're not supposed to do that, you're supposed to buy new all the time, new is better
01:38 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: i know. dark times ahead for industry.
01:38 PM roycroft: i'll agree that proprietary file formats are not desirable, but acceptable under some circumstances
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: look into my eyes, what you see and hear is not really happening
01:39 PM MarcelineVQ: I'm okay with propriatary implementations, formats should be open
01:39 PM fragalot: roycroft: Exactly.
01:39 PM roycroft: and that the app being cloud-based, or dependent on calling home to a license server occasionally is much more problematic
01:39 PM roycroft: not everyone does it badly, btw
01:40 PM roycroft: it's astonishing that i use them as an example, but adobe mandled the cs4 apps quite nicely
01:40 PM roycroft: they decided to retire their license server for cs4
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: the Russian will sell you your own local license server
01:40 PM roycroft: and when they did so they published a patch that anyone can download that licenses the software in perpetuity
01:41 PM roycroft: adobe did not have a subscription model for cs4, but they did restrict the license to one machine at a time
01:41 PM roycroft: so you could install it on multiple machines, but only use it on one
01:42 PM roycroft: if you wanted to use it on another, you'd have to deactivate it on the first machine and activate it on the second
01:42 PM roycroft: but the patch just activated it on install, without calling home
01:43 PM MarcelineVQ: adobe probably didn't even do the work, just grabbed a crack people had been using for years and distributed it :>
01:44 PM Tom_L: one day the cloud will rain and the sky will clear again
01:44 PM roycroft: that could well be the case :)
01:44 PM MarcelineVQ: though, easiest way to get around that liscence stuff at the time was to modify your hosts file to block connections to the liscence servers
01:44 PM Tom_L: we can only hope
01:44 PM MarcelineVQ: *at that time
01:44 PM roycroft: marclinevq: that did not work
01:44 PM roycroft: not with cs4
01:44 PM roycroft: if it was unable to call home and check in it would not run
01:44 PM Tom_L: roycroft, have you looked at mastercam?
01:44 PM MarcelineVQ: It was part of the process, I had all those programs at various forms of crackedness
01:45 PM MarcelineVQ: rain would be nice, the wildfires are extreme this year
01:45 PM roycroft: i have, tom_l
01:45 PM Tom_L: just catching up on the logs
01:45 PM roycroft: iirc it's rather expensive
01:45 PM roycroft: i don't mind paying for useful software, but i can't cost justify it right now
01:45 PM roycroft: i'm looking for something entry level at the moment
01:45 PM fragalot: MarcelineVQ: did you skip the age of faking harddisk ID's?
01:46 PM Tom_L: i don't think it's cloud based
01:46 PM roycroft: if i could justify a lot of money i'd get a newer version of solidworks, which has cam software
01:46 PM MarcelineVQ: Yes but not the age of changing your calendar :D
01:46 PM Tom_L: how good is it though?
01:46 PM roycroft: i'm using 2012, and i don't have support on it, so i can't upgrade without dishing out $5k or so again
01:46 PM roycroft: cambam is only ~$150
01:47 PM roycroft: so i was hoping that would do the trick
01:47 PM Tom_L: i didn't care for it
01:47 PM roycroft: but it's wonky, and it complains about missing libraries on linux, even though i installed it exactly as documented
01:47 PM roycroft: and as i said, the cambam folks don't answer emails
01:49 PM hazzy-lab: Lcvette[m] Hello! I don't see you :(
01:49 PM CaptHindsight: how about a software model where the full application is free like NX, SW, Mastecam etc, but.... you pay for each file saved
01:49 PM roycroft: yeah, mastercam 2.5d mill starts at $4k/seat, and 3d mill starts at $10k/seat
01:50 PM roycroft: too rich for my blood :)
01:50 PM roycroft: it comes with a free solidworks plugin though!
01:50 PM Tom_L: way back when, smartcam and mastercam were the 2 main choices
01:51 PM Tom_L: i went with smartcam and still use it but it's somewhat gone by the wayside now i believe
01:51 PM roycroft: i should bite the bullet and try to figure out how to wrap my brain around freecad
01:51 PM Tom_L: mastercam seems to be more popular among small shops here
01:51 PM Tom_L: i might if i _had_ to
01:51 PM roycroft: that's some really weird software though
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: the files are all stored on the cloud and if the company decides to stop supporting them or goes out of business, all the top executives and their families are beaten to a pulp
01:53 PM Tom_L: most plants here use catia but i don't really think anybody uses it for cam although it has cam now
01:53 PM Tom_L: takes a 3rd party to make a post too
01:54 PM Tom_L: i _could_ load mastercam here but i haven't
01:54 PM Tom_L: just one more thing to figure out
01:55 PM Tom_L: i think my kid still has a student license for it
01:55 PM roycroft: the student license is only $300
01:55 PM roycroft: i'm no longer officially a student
01:56 PM roycroft: but even if i were, i'd not be able to do any production work with a student license
01:56 PM Tom_L: if you catch alot of them at the right time of year they'll offer free student copies
01:56 PM CaptHindsight: do needlepoint classes count?
01:56 PM Tom_L: with id
01:56 PM CaptHindsight: kewl
01:57 PM Tom_L: roycroft, no but you would be able to decide if it was what you wanted
01:57 PM roycroft: sure
01:57 PM roycroft: i'm looking for somthing i can use right now though :)
01:57 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: Looks like they're pulling linux support for NX after version 12.
01:58 PM roycroft: i can hand-write gcode, but that's tedius and error-prone
01:58 PM CaptHindsight: not enough users?
01:58 PM FinboySlick: Pretty much. They didn't see enough people switching.
01:59 PM roycroft: i hoped 360 would work out
01:59 PM roycroft: because it's parametric, fairly intuitive, and generates good gcode
01:59 PM roycroft: so it does have a lot of things going for it
01:59 PM roycroft: also, it's free for hobby users and small (<$100k/year) shops
01:59 PM FinboySlick: roycroft: Well, there's always the 'fell off a truck' option. Is this just for personal use?
02:00 PM Tom_L: i wonder if beachbumpete1 ever got his guitar programmed with it
02:00 PM roycroft: but being cloud-based is a disqualifier
02:00 PM beachbumpete1: HUH ;)
02:00 PM roycroft: i don't like going that way, finboyslick
02:01 PM Tom_L: beachbumpete1 i take that as a NO!
02:01 PM beachbumpete1: I have been working on my kit version actually
02:01 PM beachbumpete1: but the model had some issues that I needed to sort out before I could finish toolpathing it.
02:02 PM beachbumpete1: It has some strange blemishes in the curvature of the left side near the horn
02:07 PM gloops: i bet youre the kind of person who even let firefox save a password roycroft
02:09 PM roycroft: i have never allowed a web browser to save a password
02:09 PM gloops: lol
02:09 PM roycroft: and i don't add passwords to my keychain in mac os
02:09 PM roycroft: i have a password manager that works quite well for me
02:09 PM roycroft: and does not save anything to "the cloud"
02:09 PM fragalot: roycroft: care to be very specific about which one?
02:09 PM roycroft: i'm using datavault
02:09 PM fragalot: is it keepass 1.x or 2.x? which build exactly?
02:10 PM fragalot: is it just a password, or does it use a key file too?
02:10 PM roycroft: version 6.2.44
02:10 PM fragalot: what data encryption method?
02:10 PM roycroft: it can integratw with browsers
02:10 PM fragalot: what's your mums middle name? :d
02:10 PM fragalot: first dog?
02:11 PM roycroft: all those things change with each account :)
02:11 PM fragalot: good good. *adds to little notepad*
02:12 PM roycroft: virtually every account i have anywhere has a unique username, email address, password, and set of challenge/responses
02:13 PM Tom_L: you don't just use the default admin admin??
02:14 PM roycroft: or cisco cisco?
02:14 PM gregcnc: tom_l that makes it easy to keep track of
02:14 PM Tom_L: yeah but even then i forget how to spell it :)
02:14 PM roycroft: whenever possible i change the admin username from admin to something else
02:14 PM fragalot: roycroft: you don't happent o be the sysadmin for equifax?
02:14 PM roycroft: a lot of embedded devices don't permit that though
02:15 PM roycroft: no, i'm not, fragalot
02:15 PM roycroft: but i do have to do pci compliance audits on a regular bases for several of our customers
02:15 PM roycroft: basis
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: I use "login" and "password" for all accounts just like they suggest
02:19 PM roycroft: i do not want this to get political, and i shall not respond to troll bait on the matter, but i find it difficult to understand people who are vehemently anti-government yet entrust corporations with all their data
02:19 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: nobody would ever guess that because it's so obvious
02:19 PM roycroft: it's kind of like saying one is "pro-life" and "pro capital punishment"
02:19 PM fragalot: roycroft: quit while you're ahead buddy
02:20 PM roycroft: corporations are fully and demonstrably capable of being just as evil and just as incompetent as government
02:20 PM roycroft: mistrust them all :)
02:20 PM gregcnc: I'm support people of all IQ's
02:20 PM fragalot: gregcnc: even if half the population scores below average?
02:21 PM roycroft: what about when 90% of the population scores below average? :)
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: it actually a weighted average...
02:21 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: hush.
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: half are over average and another half are below the average and the rest are in the middle
02:21 PM roycroft: your brain is heavy, man
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: half meaning some portion
02:23 PM gregcnc: If mine if above avg, somebody out there has to be below avg
02:23 PM Tom_L: it's lonely at the top
02:23 PM gregcnc: like americans eat 28 gallons of isecream a year. I eat maybe one. Some poor bastard is out there guzzling 56 gallons a year
02:23 PM gregcnc: and my typing is below avg
02:23 PM Tom_L: and he gets put on a talk show because he can't get out of bed
02:23 PM gregcnc: then dies at 36
02:24 PM fragalot: hehe
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: yeah but ice cream
02:24 PM fragalot: Tom_L: technically if he does it right the show gets put up around him because he can't leave the house
02:24 PM gregcnc: I might make a dent in my gallon allowance sunday
02:25 PM Tom_L: fragalot, literally can't fit thru the door
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: how do we know that those ice cream stats are true and not fake facts?
02:26 PM jthornton: if your locked out of an excel file because you forgot to close it before shutting down the network linux to the rescue show hidden files and delete the ones that start with ~
02:26 PM fragalot: jthornton: those are fun as well when working with git
02:27 PM fragalot: "HEY I FOUND A NEW FILE I WANT TO ADD!"
02:27 PM fragalot: no you don't
02:27 PM fragalot: "YES I DO!"
02:27 PM fragalot: no.
02:27 PM fragalot: "I'VE ADDED IT ANYWAY"
02:27 PM Tom_L: 71 seems chilly now
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: we went down to ~50F last night
02:28 PM fragalot: we're only at 20°
02:29 PM Tom_L: but it's been rainin all day so far
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: sun and 74F today
02:29 PM jthornton: fragalot: I use git gui it doesn't argue as much
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: one of our few nice days of the year
02:30 PM gregcnc: yeah might get another tomorrow
02:30 PM fragalot: jthornton: I use tortoisegit.. good GUI, but it keeps trying. :P
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: but of course back to 90 next week
02:34 PM roycroft: the smoke is still thick here, such that it's still hard to breathe
02:34 PM roycroft: that's keeping the temperature down though
02:35 PM robotustra: what news about new GUI lcnc?
02:35 PM robotustra: is it ready?
02:38 PM fragalot: there's a new GUI?
02:39 PM Tom_L: single source library for f360 and eagle now
02:40 PM Tom_L: buy the bundle and get 15% off
02:41 PM Tom_L: apparently solidworks has jumped on the same bandwagon
03:07 PM jthornton: never heard of tortoisegit
03:15 PM jdh: I used to have to use tortoisecvs
03:30 PM hazzy-lab: # TODO: Change to Enum once we drop support
03:30 PM hazzy-lab: # for the almost dead and agonizing Python 2.7
03:31 PM hazzy-lab: # <pitchforks> Death to Python 2.7! </ pitchforks>
03:31 PM hazzy-lab: ^ proof that some gov employees do have a sense of humor
03:34 PM XXCoder: lol
03:34 PM JT-Shop: lol
03:34 PM XXCoder: sometimes the hiring team surgeons forget to remove humor
04:12 PM Deejay: gn8
04:20 PM JT-Shop: time for a beer with the chickens
04:28 PM seb_kuzminsky is now known as python27
04:29 PM python27 is now known as seb_kuzminsky
04:40 PM roycroft: what kind of beer do chickens like?
04:40 PM * roycroft has fed chickens a lot of spent grain from brewing, but never the finished product
04:41 PM MarcelineVQ: the older ones like wild turkey
04:41 PM SpeedEvil: Anything with a splash of Hennessy.
04:44 PM gloops: ,
04:48 PM JT-Shop: I drink the beer the chickens get meal worms
05:16 PM Roguish: JT-Shop: so, you're basting the chicks in beer now?
05:41 PM CaptHindsight: beer with chicken vs beer with chickens
08:01 PM hazzy-lab: When is the linuxcnc_print.txt file generated? It seems to only be generated when running my 2.8 RIP, but not with the installed 2.7.14 version
08:01 PM hazzy-lab: does anybody who just runs an installed version of 2.7 have it?
08:13 PM Tom_L: where's it at?
08:13 PM hazzy-lab: ~/linuxcnc_print.txt
08:13 PM Tom_L: i don't recall seeing a linuxcnc_print.txt file
08:14 PM hazzy-lab: I am starting to think it is only generated when LCNC fails to start :(
08:14 PM Tom_L: lemme look on the test pc
08:14 PM hazzy-lab: Thanks!
08:14 PM Tom_L: i could go to the shop and look but i'm too lazy
08:14 PM hazzy-lab: don't bother :)
08:15 PM Tom_L: in the config directory or other?
08:15 PM hazzy-lab: in the user home directory
08:16 PM Tom_L: i don't see it in the home directory or below that in the linuxcnc config path
08:16 PM hazzy-lab: ok, thank you
08:17 PM Tom_L: i could start it and make it fail
08:17 PM hazzy-lab: there is also ~/.linuxcncrc, with might work for what I need
08:17 PM hazzy-lab: Need to find out when it is written
08:17 PM Tom_L: it won't start without the network card installed
08:18 PM Tom_L: i thought it might and fail but it didn't
08:18 PM Tom_L: like a config error ?
08:19 PM hazzy-lab: yes
08:19 PM Tom_L: lemme add somthing to make it fail
08:20 PM hazzy-lab: I am pretty sure it is only written on a fail to load, but it would be nice to have confirmation
08:20 PM hazzy-lab: thanks!
08:21 PM Tom_L: yup, it's in the home directory now
08:22 PM hazzy-lab: Fantastic!
08:22 PM hazzy-lab: well, kinda :D
08:23 PM hazzy-lab: I am trying to find a way to get the INI used by the currently running LCNC session, I was hoping I could get it from the linuxcnc_print.txt file, but it is not always written, so I need another solution ...
08:23 PM Tom_L: there's also a linuxcnc_debug.txt
08:23 PM Tom_L: same timestamp
08:24 PM Tom_L: oh, that's no help to you then
08:24 PM hazzy-lab: Yes, but that also seems to be only written when on fail to load, and does not have the INI path in it
08:25 PM Tom_L: does too
08:26 PM Tom_L: aww shit. friggin bots.... i gotta log in before i can post the line, hang on
08:27 PM hazzy-lab: 20382 pts/0 D+ 0:00 milltask -ini /home/kurt/dev/cnc/QtPyVCP/sim/mini.ini
08:27 PM hazzy-lab: your right!
08:27 PM hazzy-lab: I missed it
08:27 PM Tom_L: there's an inifile = line
08:31 PM Tom_shop: INIFILE=/home/tom/linuxcnc/configs/NEW_MILL/new_mill.ini
08:31 PM Tom_L: finally
08:32 PM Tom_L: i should fix all my irc clients to log in i suppose
08:32 PM hazzy-lab: Which file is that from?
08:34 PM Tom_L: linuxcnc_print.txt
08:34 PM Tom_shop: 2.7.14
08:35 PM hazzy-lab: ok, that is what I was hoping to use, I even write a little parser for it, lol
08:35 PM hazzy-lab: wrote*
08:35 PM hazzy-lab: but unfortunately I can't count on LCNC failing to start every time :D
08:36 PM Tom_L: wanna know a little trick?
08:36 PM Tom_L: if you want to get the info, write something to the end of the file then erase it after it fails
08:36 PM Tom_L: then you will have your file
08:37 PM Tom_L: i used to do that to .exe files to kill them after a certain date
08:37 PM Tom_L: like if they didn't pay...
08:38 PM hazzy-lab: The problem is it needs to work with axis and all the other GUIs, without needing to modify them to write to the file
08:38 PM hazzy-lab: haha
08:38 PM Tom_L: all i'm saying is there should be a way to trigger a fail so you get your file
08:39 PM Tom_L: maybe not the most elegant way...
08:39 PM hazzy-lab: One of the reactor simulators in the lab will not run unless the PC clock is set to October 2009 or earlier, took a while to figure that one out ..
08:39 PM hazzy-lab: Oh, I see what you are saying
08:39 PM Tom_L: mod the ini then change it back
08:40 PM Roguish: hazzy-lab: which lab are you working at?
08:41 PM hazzy-lab: Roguish: Just the school's nuclear lab
08:41 PM Roguish: ah, ok.
09:12 PM flyback: <flyback> THIS IS A SKULLFUCK
09:12 PM flyback: <flyback> SFW
09:12 PM flyback: <flyback> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NC2saE5MbQ
09:12 PM flyback: check this Tom_L
09:13 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/DSC_8135.JPG
09:16 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, all done?
09:19 PM skunkworks: might make sure the surfaces are parallel with a grinder.. other than that - yes
09:19 PM skunkworks: unless i forgot something
09:20 PM skunkworks: wonder if work has some magnetic 123 blocks
09:21 PM skunkworks: need 6 i have 4
09:21 PM skunkworks: *8
09:22 PM skunkworks: could probably get by with 6
10:48 PM TurBoss: hurrat!
10:48 PM TurBoss: *y
10:48 PM TurBoss: succes
10:48 PM Lcvette: hello
10:48 PM TurBoss: hi Lcvette
10:48 PM TurBoss: you are now one of the crew
10:49 PM Lcvette: whoo hoo
10:49 PM Lcvette: thanks Turboss!
10:49 PM Lcvette: :D
10:49 PM TurBoss: you are welcome