#linuxcnc Logs
Aug 21 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:04 AM miss0r: goodmorning
12:23 AM fragalot: hi
12:25 AM miss0r: youly :P
12:25 AM miss0r: you're up early...
12:25 AM miss0r: damn, how did that happen
12:26 AM fragalot: because it's early? (it's not really any more)
12:26 AM miss0r: yeah, not realy
12:26 AM fragalot: i'm generally up by 6.30
12:26 AM miss0r: yeah. me too
12:27 AM miss0r: strange stuff; I'm quite positive I typed all of it, and it came out "youly :P" on the screen
12:27 AM miss0r: I must have had the computer freeze for a sec
12:27 AM fragalot: Sure. :D
12:27 AM miss0r: wouldn't be the first time. I made mistakenly installed a driver package for the toughbook on this pc. It is pretty messed up at the moment
12:28 AM fragalot: lol
12:28 AM miss0r: like; it can take up to two minuts for it to realize it has a network connection after a reboot
12:28 AM miss0r: and it sometimes freeze for no apparent reason(but unfreezes shortly after)
12:28 AM fragalot: can you not roll back?
12:29 AM miss0r: that would have required me to make a rollback point myself. The driver software didn't
12:29 AM fragalot: :(
12:29 AM miss0r: yeah
12:29 AM miss0r: oh well.. Its about time for a reformat anyway
12:30 AM fragalot: right, i'm off to workµ
12:30 AM fragalot: ttyl
12:30 AM miss0r: have a good one
12:36 AM * `Wolf waits for his laundry to dry…
12:37 AM `Wolf: long work days lately
12:38 AM `Wolf: I really need to find time now to get that cnc plasma build started
12:56 AM miss0r: 'wolf: you have me curious; what is it you do for a living, if you don't mind me asking?
01:07 AM Wolf__: https://i.imgur.com/bheULL5.jpg
01:07 AM Wolf__: commercial truck stuff
01:07 AM Wolf__: welding/fabrication, installs, hydraulics, control systems
01:11 AM Wolf__: I think we have 9 of those trash trucks lined up for installs plus 5-6 hook truck systems https://i.imgur.com/UM3Rf8L.jpg (like this but bigger)
01:12 AM Wolf__: I should have some better pics of the work by the end of the week, I need to redo my website
01:12 AM miss0r: nice
01:12 AM miss0r: So all around fabrication, including the more advanced stuff
01:12 AM Wolf__: yup
01:13 AM Wolf__: had to buy a new plasma cutter today
01:13 AM miss0r: had to or wanted to ? :D
01:13 AM Wolf__: torch lead got damaged on my 65A machine and needed one running asap lol
01:14 AM Wolf__: picked up a hypertherm 30xp
01:14 AM miss0r: nice :) so, is it your company?
01:14 AM Wolf__: half the amps, 1/3rd the size lol
01:15 AM Wolf__: yeah me and friend of mine
01:15 AM miss0r: well, when you need one you need one
01:15 AM miss0r: cool :) I have no idea so many selfemployed people were in here to be honnest
01:16 AM Wolf__: yup, had to take a 1/2” 4x4’ plate to a knife and sword shop that another friend owns to cut it yesterday, used his plasma table much nice
01:16 AM Wolf__: really really want a cnc plasma setup now lol
01:17 AM miss0r: :D
01:17 AM miss0r: who doesn't :D
01:18 AM Wolf__: made 2 bumper tubes up like this one https://i.imgur.com/gzw7p90.jpg beats doing them by hand or hole saw bit
01:19 AM Wolf__: I did those free hand…
01:19 AM miss0r: damn
01:19 AM miss0r: Well, they look pretty good for a 'hand job' (pun intented)
01:19 AM Wolf__: lol
01:20 AM miss0r: I can see why you'd want a plasma CNC.
01:20 AM Wolf__: worst part is the tube stock we have is 1/4” (6mm) wall so hole saw sucks
01:20 AM miss0r: I wouldn't mind having one either. I just haven't got any more room in here
01:20 AM Wolf__: I dont either, building a clone of a esab crossbow
01:21 AM miss0r: thats the portable one, right?
01:21 AM Wolf__: yeah, plan to make it so I can store it like a hand truck
01:22 AM miss0r: so the arm swings up or something?
01:23 AM Wolf__: https://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.com/esab-crossbow-plasma-cnc-cutting-system-4-foot-by-4-foot-0560954394
01:24 AM miss0r: wow. That is alot cheaper than I thought
01:24 AM Wolf__: I’ll just put a set of wheels + foot that clamps to the end so I can stand it up out of the way when not in use
01:25 AM miss0r: I don't suppose that includes the actual plasma generator?
01:25 AM Wolf__: I think thats without the plasma box
01:25 AM miss0r: oh well. Plasma generators are cheap now'a'days anyway
01:26 AM Wolf__: sorta, one I want now is almost $3000 usd
01:26 AM miss0r: I can see why you'd want one of these, now I want one too! :D but theres no way in hell I can fit it in here
01:27 AM Wolf__: the 30xp I picked up today was $1300, $400 for a new hand torch for my hypertherm 1000
01:28 AM miss0r: hmm... Okay, they are more expensive that I thought. But nontheless. They are still alot cheaper than 20 years ago
01:29 AM Wolf__: name brands are about same price lol
01:29 AM Wolf__: my 1000 is over 12yrs old
01:30 AM miss0r: must be the right quality
01:31 AM Wolf__: whole idea for that single arm, rail carriage cnc is you dont need room except when you are using it
01:31 AM miss0r: Wolf__: This is the situation in my shop at the moment, you can see why I would not be able to fit anymore into this mess: https://imgur.com/a/r9NkYtd
01:32 AM Wolf__: lol yeah that is tight
01:32 AM miss0r: yeah
01:33 AM Wolf__: right now neither shop we use has room to get the trucks inside to work on them
01:33 AM Wolf__: my shop is too small
01:33 AM miss0r: I'm thinking, in perhaps two years(if things keep going like they are now) I will build a new shop. you know; with good insulation all around, white/grey epoxy floor, sounddamping ceiling ect
01:33 AM Loetmichel: thats no mess. thats nice and clean (if a bit cramped)
01:33 AM Wolf__: other one is full of stuff =/
01:34 AM miss0r: Loetmichel: Thanks, but I feel it is messy
01:34 AM Wolf__: https://i.imgur.com/jlgAU08.jpg is a mess
01:35 AM Wolf__: worse now, cant barely walk in it right now
01:35 AM miss0r: alright. You run a buisness in there? :D
01:35 AM Wolf__: right now all out of the 2nd location
01:35 AM miss0r: alright, I would be afraid to scare off clients then :) I already am
01:36 AM Wolf__: only 1 client lol
01:36 AM miss0r: That helps, I guess
01:36 AM miss0r: :D
01:36 AM Wolf__: we are hooked up with a big dealer that doesn’t do installs lol
01:38 AM miss0r: That sounds like a nice setup
01:38 AM miss0r: I have alot of small clients
01:38 AM Wolf__: means we dont make sales but on the other hand means we dont have out of pocket to float inventory
01:39 AM miss0r: yeah. Sounds like a pretty sweet buisness model there. So is it only your buddy'n you?
01:39 AM Wolf__: yup
01:40 AM Wolf__: finally picking up, we are a dealer for the hook systems but no one wants to fork out a deposit for a $22,000 system and then need to wait for 3 months for the thing to show up
01:40 AM miss0r: nice. I sometimes need another person here, but I have decided not to hire.
01:41 AM miss0r: so, you keep them stocked?
01:41 AM Wolf__: we dont have that kinda cashflow yet lol
01:42 AM miss0r: I guess I was lucky with my buisness here. I started march of this year.(full time that is). and I've been able to pay myself salary from the first month
01:42 AM Wolf__: last time we got stuff for stock it ended up biting us in the ass
01:43 AM miss0r: yeah, you gotta be carefull with that stuff
01:44 AM Wolf__: have had 2 switch’n go systems ( https://www.switchngo.com ) just sitting for 7 yrs now cant get the damn things sold
01:45 AM miss0r: that don't look cheap
01:45 AM Wolf__: like $12,000 installed
01:45 AM miss0r: why don't you ask your dealer to do you a solid one, and sell them for you?
01:46 AM Wolf__: these are like toys vs the stuff we are doing for them
01:46 AM miss0r: well, atleast ask them to keep it in mind, should the job come along where it could be used.
01:46 AM miss0r: y'know - sell them at a discount
01:47 AM Wolf__: have to at this point long as they have been sitting lol
01:47 AM miss0r: :D
01:47 AM miss0r: I'm sad that you live all the way 'over there'. I wouldn't mind making some special parts for you once in a while :)
01:49 AM Wolf__: lol, I’m working on getting setup to do everything in house possible
01:50 AM Wolf__: I know I’m glad that I got a parker hydraulic hose crimper when I was putting my truck together 6 yrs ago
01:52 AM miss0r: Yeah.
01:52 AM miss0r: Duty calls. A mill is eating fuses for breakfast, I have to run.
01:52 AM miss0r: ttyl
01:53 AM Deejay: moin
01:53 AM jesseg: Mornin' Deejay
01:54 AM Deejay: heya :)
01:59 AM jesseg: I got called out to work on a 1997 Kenworth dumptruck with a 6 cylinder rather large Cummins engine in it..
02:00 AM jesseg: The problem turned out to be a 3 inch (77mm) length of electrical tape stuck in the check valve in the fuel line LOL
02:00 AM jesseg: well bedtime for me. Good night
02:00 AM Deejay: oh. gn8!
02:01 AM jesseg: yup, turned midnight here :D
02:02 AM Deejay: sleep well
03:41 AM holzjunkie1: good morning @all
03:43 AM TurBoss: hello
03:55 AM holzjunkie1: @fragalot are you online???
03:57 AM holzjunkie1: TurBoss: hy were you from?
03:58 AM TurBoss: I'm from spain
03:58 AM TurBoss: holzjunkie1: and you?
03:59 AM holzjunkie1: germany
04:00 AM holzjunkie1: i´ve got an maho 600c running with linuxcnc
04:02 AM holzjunkie1: but i´ve problems with the tool lenght compensation
04:07 AM TurBoss: great machine
04:11 AM rmu|w: what problem
04:12 AM XXCoder: c[_]
04:16 AM TurBoss: XXCoder: good idea
04:16 AM XXCoder: [%] [%] soda for who dont like coffee
04:28 AM XXCoder: 91f paetially cloudy next 2 days. partially cloudy = hot humid day
04:28 AM XXCoder: air sucks here
04:37 AM TurBoss: test
04:53 AM jthornton: hmmm
05:01 AM XXCoder: yo jthornton
05:01 AM jthornton: morning
05:03 AM fragalot: 'sup
05:03 AM XXCoder: uhoh
05:03 AM XXCoder: window popped when I was playing minecraft
05:04 AM XXCoder: its in strange glitch now, it still has control of cursor and I cant open menus so I cant run xkill
05:05 AM jthornton: linux mint has been having some strange focus issues for me
05:06 AM XXCoder: mint here also
05:06 AM XXCoder: trying to run terminal somehow
05:06 AM fragalot: ctrl alt F2
05:07 AM fragalot: iirc
05:07 AM fragalot: that will pop you out of X into a terminal
05:07 AM fragalot: one of the Fx keys will be able to bring you back to X
05:07 AM fragalot: can't remember which one
05:08 AM XXCoder: ya took me bit but was already using term :)
05:09 AM XXCoder: yay!
05:09 AM jthornton: yea ctrl alt t will open a terminal
05:09 AM XXCoder: trying to kill java (minecraft) caused it to lose focus
05:09 AM XXCoder: which returned mouse to me
05:09 AM XXCoder: yep minecraft still frozen
05:10 AM holzjunkie1: fragalot: hy michel
05:10 AM jthornton: I've just been rebooting to get back to normal
05:11 AM XXCoder: control-alt-fn-f1 is fun to press lol
06:34 AM Loetmichel: soo, now i just have to mill the rear cover and then the prototype PC is done... only a dozen to follow ;) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17186&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
06:44 AM rmu|w: Loetmichel: why don't you get your sheet metal stuff from some specialized shop, this seems to be an application for a trumpf truepunch or similar machine
06:57 AM fragalot: rmu|w: because his boss doesn't understand the concept of "RoI" :)
06:58 AM fragalot: (only reason I could think of would be delivery time & one-offs)
07:04 AM Loetmichel: rmu|w: we so... when making series
07:05 AM Loetmichel: prototypes and single digit series in house
07:06 AM fragalot: with prices that you can get things lasercut at these days i'd find it hard to justify doing these things in-house anymore even for single digit units
07:06 AM fragalot: we send an undimensioned .dxf to our supplier and get the part 2 days later
07:10 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: then lets see how you can hold delivery dates when your boss comes around "next week we have to deliver 12 of them" start designing!"
07:10 AM fragalot: I did say the only reason is lead-time :)
07:10 AM Loetmichel: its not about price, its about "time to market"
07:12 AM Loetmichel: also: whe you design stuff in 2d that has to be 3d at the customer sometimes you need 2 or three iterations until everything fits
07:12 AM Loetmichel: when you do that with external sheet metal guys you will have "fun" explaining why the dxfs you sent doesnt fit and why he can scrap a whole series ;)
07:16 AM fragalot: we design in 3D, send 3D model, so far 98% of what we receive from them fits
07:20 AM Loetmichel: in short its just better to have the capability to do prottypes in house
07:20 AM Loetmichel: and be it just to save time from "idea" to something the boss can grab and inspect
07:20 AM Loetmichel: and make "suggestions" how to make it better...
07:29 AM rmu|w: our sheet metal guys deliver cut, bent and powder-coated
07:29 AM rmu|w: lead time is another issue, but not that bad if you don't need coating
07:40 AM miss0r: I wonder how square those hex ER-32 chinesium blocks are.
07:41 AM * miss0r is wondering if he should not just make one himself and just skip the frustration part
07:48 AM fragalot: miss0r: I've got one at home.. want me to check it?
07:48 AM miss0r: That would be nice. what I want to know: if you have a ground rod clamped in it, and have it resting on one side, is the rod parallel to the table
07:48 AM fragalot: ok
07:49 AM miss0r: that'd be sweet :]
07:49 AM miss0r: Just looking at the pictures of the ones on ebay - they couldn't even find one that didn't have scratches and deep marks on it for the photo
07:49 AM miss0r: also, the "ground" taper, looks like poop
07:49 AM fragalot: I couldn't even find any on ebay when I last looked (a year ago)
07:49 AM fragalot: I got mine from arcEurotrade
07:50 AM miss0r: well, if it is good, I'd love to see a link for it
07:50 AM fragalot: https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Collets/ER-Collet-Fixtures/ER32-Collet-Blocks
07:50 AM fragalot: haven't unpackaged them yet
07:50 AM fragalot: :P
07:50 AM miss0r: I said 'if it is good'
07:50 AM miss0r: :]
07:51 AM miss0r: anyways. I need to run - my son has a playdate, and I need to go pick up both of them. I'll be back here tonight at some point. cya
07:51 AM fragalot: ttyl
07:56 AM jthornton: finally got my strawberry seeds to germinate :)
08:43 AM jdh: 2 hours of interactive webex electrical safety training :(
09:37 AM * gloops *sets mode -r
09:56 AM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: Yo
10:02 AM Loetmichel: soo, back cover done, too... fits!... i like it when it fits on first try... now to make a second one with all the changes applied, and then give it out to the sheet metal guy... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17189&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 ... and then do the other PC with 12" TFT in it... THAT will be fun ;)
10:03 AM JT-Shop: that's a bunch of holes and slots
10:05 AM Loetmichel: JT-Shop: the front isnt better: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17186&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
10:05 AM Loetmichel: :-)
10:08 AM JT-Shop: wow the images are bigger than my monitor
10:42 AM Loetmichel: JT-Shop: forgot to resize them somehow.
10:42 AM Loetmichel: sorry
12:02 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: is it you?!
12:03 PM CaptHindsight: fire free?
12:14 PM fragalot: miss0r|office: tested using 10x300mm HSS blank, make your own. :D
12:15 PM fragalot: not sure if it's the collet I used (as it is also chinesium), but .. eh.
12:18 PM fragalot: didn't bother to measure how square & parallel the faces themselves were, nor did I check the taper itself
01:32 PM Jin^eLD: hi
01:33 PM Jin^eLD: is there a way to somehow pass custom CFLAGS to halcompile? I'd like to be able to enable/disable some debug code using #ifdef
01:48 PM dasbrow: Test
01:49 PM fragalot: hi
01:51 PM dasbrow: I need some help with setting up my step conf. I am using DQ542ma stepper drivers, currently set to 25000 pulse/rev. Current is set to peak 4.20amp, rms 3.0, step set up in stepconf is 200 steps per rev motor which is correct, driver micro stepping 64, max acc 100, max vel 6. Can't seem to get it to go faster.
01:53 PM fragalot: 200 steps/rev & 64x micro-stepping would make it 12800 steps/rev
01:53 PM dasbrow: I've set the driver to 800 pulse/rev at 4 microstepping and the stepper's won't move the table.
01:53 PM fragalot: since your drive is set to 25000, that's not right
01:53 PM fragalot: Right
01:53 PM fragalot: could you leave the driver at 800 pulses/rev, and set your stepconf to 800 steps/rev, microstep 1
01:54 PM dasbrow: let me try it..
01:55 PM dasbrow: table does move when set to 800p/r
01:55 PM fragalot: does it move the right amount you expect it to?
01:56 PM dasbrow: sorry, I meant it does not move.
01:56 PM fragalot: does it make noise like it's trying?
01:56 PM JT-Shop: wow 64 micro stepping
01:56 PM dasbrow: yes it does
01:57 PM dasbrow: I thought 64 micro stepping was high too.
01:57 PM JT-Shop: can you change it?
01:57 PM fragalot: JT-Shop: he already has to 4x
01:58 PM fragalot: dasbrow: does the motor move if it's not actually connected to the leadscrew?
01:58 PM fragalot: and does the leadscrew move freely if you try it without the motor enabled
01:58 PM dasbrow: it would for sure, it's just locking up. moves freely with hand wheel.
01:59 PM CaptHindsight: https://i.imgur.com/1VQGh7K.mp4 CNC this
01:59 PM fragalot: dasbrow: are you sure the motor is wired correctly?
02:01 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: sharpening a cheese wheel cutter? :D
02:01 PM dasbrow: it works fine when I have the driver set to 25000 p/r and set to 64 micro steps.
02:01 PM dasbrow: just slow
02:02 PM XXCoder: I hate fake gifs
02:02 PM fragalot: perhaps your acceleration is too high then
02:02 PM XXCoder: just use mng or something
02:03 PM XXCoder: or apng
02:04 PM XXCoder: example of apng https://www.bram.us/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/GenevaDrive.png
02:05 PM dasbrow: just checked wiring, it is fine.
02:05 PM dasbrow: maybe a bad power supply.
02:06 PM JT-Shop: dasbrow: I assume your using metric?
02:06 PM dasbrow: JT-Shop: no imperial. (you assumed because I am canadian eh?)
02:07 PM JT-Shop: yea it was the accent lol
02:07 PM JT-Shop: what voltage is the power supply for the stepper drives?
02:07 PM dasbrow: bahahha!
02:08 PM dasbrow: 36, drive can handle 50v. Steppers say 36v I believe
02:09 PM JT-Shop: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Stepper_Motor_Speed_Limitations
02:10 PM JT-Shop: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Stepper_Formulas
02:10 PM JT-Shop: a couple of really good pages with stepper info
02:12 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: Oh sure, distract me with ball-polishing videos while I'm trying to work.
02:12 PM JT-Shop: you using the parallel port? I wonder what the max step rate is for a parallel port???
02:12 PM * JT-Shop sees that break minute is over and it's back to work for me
02:13 PM dasbrow: For now until I get the mesa board i ordered.
02:13 PM XXCoder: JT-Shop: pretty good, good enough for many machines, though MESA is way faster
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: did you move the machine in yet?
02:24 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: it was due to arrive on monday, but by noon I had learned it hadn't even been picked up yet because schenker doesn't know the meaning of "it does not fit in a peugot partner"
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: I was looking for a CNC airbrush for painting the surfaces of parts with lots of contours and pockets
02:24 PM fragalot: it's due to arrive thursday
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: I only found 2D for graphics and multiaxis for monocolor coatings
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: no airbrush graphics for 3d shapes
02:27 PM Tom_L: dasbrow your step pulse could be too short
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: 2d only https://youtu.be/PIVVX-pQsZs?t=30s
02:28 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: welding robot?
02:28 PM XXCoder: looks like airbrush
02:29 PM fragalot: XXCoder: that's because it is :P
02:29 PM XXCoder: thats pretty awesome idea
02:29 PM XXCoder: tshirts with unique designs
02:29 PM XXCoder: btw guys tshirt industry is crashing]
02:30 PM fragalot: everyone and their mother is selling Tshirts
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: the multi-axis machines are just robot arms for spraying paint
02:30 PM FinboySlick: It made me think of CNC tattoo.
02:30 PM XXCoder: heh usually use uncle
02:30 PM XXCoder: FinboySlick: thats possible, paint tat anyway
02:30 PM XXCoder: just need probe to get contour
02:30 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: of course - what else would you use if you want to get into the nooks & crannies?
02:32 PM XXCoder: kick it when its done https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-glgq_zxo8
02:32 PM XXCoder: gonna love cone of chips
02:33 PM fragalot: Aye :D
02:34 PM FinboySlick: XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46Iv7OHc1-4
02:35 PM XXCoder: ow
02:36 PM FinboySlick: I was thinking of a much better video but can't find it.
02:37 PM XXCoder: grab regular soccer ball, fill it with lead
02:37 PM FinboySlick: It's a bronze soccer ball 'sculpture' on concrete. The poor kid actually flips.
02:38 PM XXCoder: ow
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: silk screen graphic T's are still popular
02:49 PM miss0r: fragalot: that bad, ha? :D
02:49 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: not surpised. just that theres so many shirt companies that there is ponental problem coming
02:50 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: what about the one where you tie a knot in it and stick it in a bucket of food colorant?
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: tie dye
02:50 PM fragalot: miss0r: well, if you're OK with 0.05mm runout
02:50 PM XXCoder: I have couple tie dye shirts, one shorts and socks :D
02:50 PM miss0r: fragalot: I'm realy not :D
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: http://mog.imgix.net/media/catalog/product/1/4/14004-ar-bi.jpg
02:50 PM fragalot: miss0r: good news though is that they were actually pretty parallel.. just off center :D
02:51 PM miss0r: ha...
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: what is gaining in popularity is graphics on guns
02:51 PM miss0r: well, the part isn't easy to make
02:52 PM XXCoder: I wonder how long before someone prints dick on his rifle
02:52 PM miss0r: fragalot: also, I was phoned earlier about making four 25mm bores in a block of steel. The steel block is 310mm tall, and the bores need to be 280mm deep.
02:52 PM fragalot: miss0r: gun drill or burn it out
02:53 PM miss0r: fragalot: I'm thinking regular indexable drill
02:53 PM miss0r: The thing is; I need to remove the angle head on my cnc, and use the Y-direction to get the travel + "height" I need
02:53 PM fragalot: could work, never really used those myself so I have no idea how "on target" those stay
02:54 PM fragalot: miss0r: horizontal?
02:54 PM miss0r: They do alright. Not precision bore though. and that is not needed anyway
02:54 PM miss0r: yeah
02:54 PM fragalot: long live horizontal :D
02:54 PM miss0r: I 'only' have 500mm from the table to the spindle nose
02:54 PM fragalot: remove the table :D
02:55 PM miss0r: yeah... I 'could' do that, but it is hell leveling it out again :D
02:55 PM fragalot: I dunno why but when you mention things I immediately assume high precision is required >.>
02:55 PM miss0r: its much easier to re tram the head
02:55 PM miss0r: lol. Well, you know me; even when high precision is not required or even called for - I have a nasty way of doing it anyway :P
02:56 PM fragalot: perfect slip fit tolerance for a bolt hole
02:56 PM miss0r: it is for a guide of some sort. for a high pressure steam valve
02:56 PM fragalot: colleague of mine does that on his damn drawings & then things don't line up exactly right and the thing doesn't bolt together
02:56 PM miss0r: but for some reason, they don't need to be precise
02:56 PM miss0r: the issue is just the depth of cut
02:57 PM fragalot: should be fine with an indexable drill if you find one that's long enough then
02:57 PM fragalot: worst case you can even use them to bore it out
02:57 PM miss0r: yeah
02:58 PM miss0r: I'm hoping I can get a drill that can do it in one go
02:58 PM miss0r: preferably one that is already fixed in an SK40 taper
02:58 PM fragalot: pricey
02:58 PM miss0r: so I don't have to have the workpiece hang too far off the table
02:59 PM fragalot: you can't use it in your lathe afterwards though if it's SK40
02:59 PM miss0r: what, you don't have a MK3 to SK40? :P
02:59 PM miss0r: converter..
03:00 PM fragalot: lol
03:00 PM miss0r: its okay. I'm fine with the tool being for the mill
03:00 PM miss0r: Its gonna be expensive I think
03:00 PM fragalot: 300+ at least for a standard length
03:00 PM fragalot: let alone extended, and with built in SK40
03:01 PM * JT-Shop is ahead of schedule for once
03:01 PM miss0r: JT-Shop: What?! better take a break
03:02 PM JT-Shop: yea I set up a mini production line and I'm way ahead now :)
03:02 PM fragalot: miss0r: if it's not ultra precise, and you only need 4 holes.. why not a fresh ground standard integrated mk3 drill?
03:03 PM fragalot: miss0r: because they're like 20x cheaper, and in the end it's only 12D deep
03:03 PM hazzy-lab: JT-Shop: Something must be wrong. Maybe recheck the schedule? :D
03:03 PM fragalot: miss0r: for accuracy you can always go in with a boring bar
03:04 PM miss0r: fragalot: Sure. but they are still unsure what material it is. probally something with alot of chrome in it...
03:04 PM miss0r: but they wanted to buy the drill for me, so.... indexable it is
03:04 PM fragalot: ._. why do you get all the good customers
03:05 PM miss0r: I am just that nice of a guy ;)
03:05 PM fragalot: can't be THAT nice, making your customers buy you re-usable tooling :D
03:05 PM JT-Shop: I was hoping to build 2 per week and it's only Tuesday and I have the components for 5 ready and one almost done
03:06 PM fragalot: JT-Shop: You deserve a break, time to go binge
03:06 PM fragalot: :P
03:06 PM miss0r: fragalot: I didn't make them do anything - they offered right off the bat
03:06 PM fragalot: miss0r: either they know something you don't, or... :D
03:07 PM miss0r: fragalot: What ever the case, i'll take it ;)
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: https://vimeo.com/79570076 Robotic Airbrush Painting
03:19 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: still only 2D
03:19 PM fragalot: never mind
03:19 PM fragalot: :P
03:43 PM BitEvil is now known as speedevil
03:58 PM JT-Shop: fragalot: if I wasn't 7 pounds over target I'd prob go on a binge and have 2 beers instead of my normal 1
04:04 PM * JT-Shop needs to find some M3 standoffs in the USA
04:10 PM hazzy-lab1 is now known as hazzy-lab
04:11 PM Deejay: gn8
04:58 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20180821-us-marines-3d-print-f-35-part-which-will-save-70000-in-costs-per-fighter-jet.html
04:59 PM CaptHindsight: how many things are wrong with this article?
04:59 PM CaptHindsight: Child chews plastic toy into shape pf F-35 landing gear component for 2 cents
05:03 PM MarcelineVQ: "The original part was plastic; the replacement part was made of [cheap plastic]."
05:04 PM MarcelineVQ: a PET part being allowed to be put in landing gear of a machine worth millions? when pigs fly a base commander would allow that
05:04 PM andypugh: ~Surely the question they should be asking is _why_ they can’t buy just the part separate from the entire door.
05:05 PM MarcelineVQ: 95 million dollar machine new, 70k for a repair part is nothing
05:06 PM MarcelineVQ: the newer ones are 120 mill appearantly :X
05:06 PM speedevil: andypugh: that wasn't in the contract.
05:06 PM speedevil: 'you diddn't say you wanted to be able to buy small parts of large subasemblies'
05:43 PM gloops: all quiet on the western front
06:47 PM Loetmichel: maaan thats the reason why i hate VOIP... router hald problems connecting with the VDSL card at the other end... 4 tries with "training" "connect <20Mbit" "connection lost" 'til it was back to the usual 55/10 Mbit... and of course when that happen during work hours wife suddenly has no more telephone as well :-(
08:24 PM enleth: so I had this idea a couple years ago to mount the toolhead on a non-contact plotter-like gantry machine (such as a plasma cutter) on a small, limited range X-Y stage, in addition to the regular X (gantry) and Y (linear stage on the gantry) axes
08:24 PM enleth: or perhaps just an additional linear stage parallel to X
08:25 PM enleth: the idea here being to split the toolpath in frequency domain and use the small stage for the high frequency part
08:26 PM enleth: never tried it, mostly for the lack of software support in pretty much any machine control out there
08:28 PM enleth: and now I'm wondering how much work would it take to get LinuxCNC to understand and use such a configuration
08:29 PM enleth: obviously the whole point is being able to run detailed toolpaths fast on a machine that would otherwise lack the rigidity and/or power to do that
08:30 PM enleth: any thoughts?
08:31 PM _unreal_: What are you asking
08:32 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: It is I, no promises on the latter ;)
08:34 PM enleth: _unreal_: high-level comments, especially from people familliar with LinuxCNC's motion planner and HAL. I assumed this is obvious when asking for "any thoughts" after describing a high-level idea dependent on the internals of the motion planner and HAL.
08:36 PM _unreal_: enleth, AGAIN.... WHAT are you asking I've read it multi times now...... your question is not really narrow
08:40 PM _unreal_: I assume you mean you want to setup a TOOL rotation system so you can swap tools. THAT IS NOT an XY setup. but an A rotation style axis generally. unless you want to use some kind of a PICK and PLACE system to pick up a TOOL from a XY matrix style tool holder....
08:40 PM _unreal_: SOOO... narrow the scope of WHAT your are asking
08:40 PM enleth: _unreal_: jesus, not everything said here has to *be* a narrow question. if you really insist, the question is: "what do you guys think, is that even remotely doable within the LinuxCNC codebase as it is now, or am I hosed"?
08:40 PM enleth: _unreal_: no, you completely misunderstood it
08:41 PM _unreal_: I may have no argument
08:41 PM _unreal_: brb OMG 9:40 putting my 9yo to bed
08:41 PM _unreal_: one sec
08:42 PM _unreal_: I'm back
08:43 PM _unreal_: kids to bed
08:43 PM enleth: _unreal_: this is about doing fast moves on a heavy or wobbly machine, by being able to move the tool itself relative to the toolhead, separately from the machine's "regular" axes, with a very limited range of motion but at a potentially much higher speed than the "regular" axes can do
08:44 PM _unreal_: What kind of a mchine
08:44 PM _unreal_: machine
08:44 PM enleth: gantry plotter comes to mind, but this really isn't that important
08:44 PM _unreal_: stationary or moving gantry
08:45 PM enleth: that's utterly, completely irrelevant
08:45 PM enleth: I'm not asking about a particular machine
08:45 PM _unreal_: it is important because every moving part ADD'S the error range of play
08:46 PM enleth: I'm getting the impression that we're not quite on the same page here
08:46 PM _unreal_: fine ok.. hypothetical a plotter with a DUAL X plane
08:46 PM veek: anyone familiar with the Aluminium Classification system?
08:46 PM _unreal_: I'm having a hard time picturing an XY/XY table
08:46 PM enleth: what I'm asking about is a motion control idea/model/concept, how the machine looks makes absolutely zero difference
08:46 PM _unreal_: sorry XY/XY flimsy fast plotter
08:48 PM _unreal_: veek, are you asking about its grade of duriblity and MOMENT?
08:48 PM _unreal_: sorry flex and moment
08:48 PM veek: nope the whole 1xxx implies 99%
08:48 PM veek: what does the 2nd digit etc imply
08:48 PM _unreal_: duriblity lol I've had to much wine and I'm on my first cup :)
08:49 PM _unreal_: OHOHHHHHHHHH.... ya that I cant answer
08:49 PM enleth: _unreal_: it's probably better if you imagine a VERY heavy machine that would need to slow down a lot to trace a complex toolpath with very small details, like a high amplitude sine wave set diagonally to the axes
08:49 PM _unreal_: I'd have to google
08:50 PM _unreal_: enleth, ok... microstepping.... on a machine with high backlash
08:50 PM enleth: _unreal_: with a dual X/Y stage, one of them very small and right at the toolhead, the machine as a whole could zoom over the toolpath in a straight line, with only the tool itself doing the sine wave
08:50 PM enleth: jesus, no
08:50 PM veek: _unreal_, https://www.esabna.com/us/en/education/blog/understanding-the-aluminum-alloy-designation-system.cfm
08:50 PM enleth: what microstepping
08:50 PM enleth: what backlash
08:50 PM enleth: completely missing the point
08:50 PM _unreal_: veek MSG
08:50 PM veek: good explanation my book sucks
08:51 PM _unreal_: veek, check msg
08:51 PM enleth: _unreal_: I'm sorry, I tried, but I don't think I'm getting anything across now. and my whole question is a long way up in the backlog and no one else is going to read it and comment on it
08:52 PM enleth: what a waste of time
08:52 PM _unreal_: I'm trying. I'm a marine engineer
08:52 PM _unreal_: but the question that I'm reading I've answered as best I can..... as I said its best to narrow your question and build up.......
08:53 PM _unreal_: your asking a question that is NOT making sense.
08:53 PM enleth: the question was about the LinuxCNC software internals and control theory, NOTHING to do with the mechanical implementation
08:53 PM _unreal_: linuxcnc is very flexable and can be scripted.......
08:54 PM enleth: not at that level, I think
08:54 PM enleth: and I know it is, I'm using it
08:54 PM _unreal_: if you feel that the lincnc is not capable then you need to take it to a hardware level abstraction layer and use a micro controller to preform automated functions
08:55 PM enleth: what
08:55 PM enleth: again, what you said has nothing to do with anything
08:56 PM _unreal_: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/iocontrol.1.html
08:56 PM enleth: yes, I know where the manual is, this is irrelevant
08:58 PM _unreal_: At this point I'm sorry I give up... I dont know what your desired answer is between what your writing and thinking sorry.
09:01 PM enleth: _unreal_: you're a marine engineer, right? so try to imagine someone asked you to draw a sine wave - 2m in amplitude, 4m period - with a stick on water, while you're standing at the stern of a 80000 DWT tanker. you're holding the stick in your hands, it's long enough to reach the water. would you rather try to get the whole tanker to strafe left and right by 2m as it's moving forward, or just let the
09:01 PM enleth: ship move in a straight line and wave the comparatively lightweight stick with your hands so that the end in the water traces a sine wave?
09:02 PM enleth: the end result would be exactly the same if you held the stick straight and somehow got the ship to move sideways at a 2m amplitude, 2m period, but surely you can see a problem in trying to do that with a tanker
09:03 PM enleth: even if you tried using side thrusters, the mass of the ship would just completely dampen that sideways movement, or you'd have to move the whole thing *extremely* slowly
09:07 PM enleth: eh, now no one is going to comment anything on what I originally wrote because no one's going to read it anymore
09:11 PM enleth: _unreal_: and, yes, I am aware that a line traced in the water with a stick while standing on a big ship's stern is going to disappear right into the ship's wake, let's just assume it doesn't
09:11 PM jdh: yes, I think you can do it. write your own kins for it
09:12 PM _unreal_: https://pastebin.com/NgtZDLZN
09:12 PM _unreal_: fuck
09:19 PM enleth: jdh: OK, so the way I see it, I'd define the "extra" axes with proper MAX_ACCELERATION set, assume some sort of convention in the custom kins as to which axes are parallel to each other, then use MAX_ACCELERATION to figure out where to split the FFT of the toolpath among parallel axis pairs and feed them DTF-ed components of the path
09:19 PM enleth: jdh: does that make any sense?
09:20 PM enleth: er, wait
09:21 PM enleth: *split the FFT *feed them inverse-FFT-ed components
09:22 PM jdh: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/docs/src/motion/kinematics.txt
09:23 PM enleth: s/axes/linear joints/, to be precise
10:42 PM pcw_home: There are chatter reduction system that do this with a piezoelectric device in the tool holder
10:43 PM _unreal_: pcw_home, ?
10:46 PM pcw_home: Axis motion divided into low and high frequency response devices
10:51 PM enleth: pcw_home: oh, that's nice to know. have you heard of anyone using an actual extra linear stage at the tool?
10:53 PM enleth: unless there's something fundamentally wrong with that idea, I imagine it would do wonders to really big plasma/waterjet cutters e.g. for making lots of small holes
10:55 PM pcw_home: Not other than the piezo-electric devices (note that they are _very_ stiff so don't increase the mechanical impedance and the tool much)
10:56 PM pcw_home: for devices with negligible cutting loads like plasma I think the Z axis is already as light as possible
10:59 PM enleth: that ensures fast Y, but X still gets to haul the whole gantry/table along for rapid moves
11:00 PM enleth: so it might make sense to be able to move the tool parallel to the gantry movement axis
11:01 PM Valen: I saw a boring tool with some kind of system to change the diameter of the boring tool
11:02 PM * _unreal_ LOL I'm picturing a Z axis with the telescoping boxing glove https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/boxing-glove-surprise-my-own-design-35273877.jpg
11:03 PM _unreal_: dremel instead of glove
11:03 PM enleth: Valen: something like a small version of a HBM's spindle?
11:06 PM roycroft: dremel, dremel, dremel, i carve with you today
11:08 PM roycroft: dremel, dremel, dremel, your blue smoke blows away
11:18 PM Tom_L: blue smoke is reserved for semiconductors
11:18 PM Tom_L: it comes pre'packaged in em
11:21 PM roycroft: i'm sure i've seen blue smoke coming out of dremels before
11:22 PM roycroft: but perhaps it was just the light reflecting off the grey smoke
11:34 PM CaptHindsight: Valen: LTNS, have you done any more granite epoxy casting?
11:34 PM Valen: not since then no
11:34 PM CaptHindsight: where is that link to that one you did a few years ago?
11:34 PM CaptHindsight: I tried to find it an could not
11:36 PM Valen: https://www.cnczone.com/forums/uncategorised-metalworking-machines/118358-phenolic-basalt-head-hm45.html lost the photos though
11:37 PM CaptHindsight: thanks
11:38 PM CaptHindsight: Valen: how is your winter this year?