#linuxcnc Logs

Aug 19 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:01 AM sector_0: why are some machines, especially desktop machines not rated for aluminum or other harder metals?
01:04 AM XXCoder: the chineseium ones?
01:04 AM sector_0: I know it's more difficult to machine harder materials, but isn't it simply a matter of the cutting speed and end mill?
01:04 AM sector_0: XXCoder, well those are included too yeah lol
01:04 AM XXCoder: heh chinese ones usually seriously underrate machines for some uses
01:04 AM XXCoder: anyway im not sure how to answer that other question
01:04 AM XXCoder: theres play between frame rigidness, spindle strength, chipload and sideload
01:04 AM XXCoder: if you are fine with lots of rubbung and tool wear then essentally you can run more
01:07 AM sector_0: XXCoder, well I mean if you cut too fast, you'll wear any machine
01:08 AM sector_0: the end mill can also break
01:08 AM XXCoder: too slow can be an issue also
01:08 AM XXCoder: rubbing the tool on material and not really cutting wears down tool
01:09 AM sector_0: well I guess so
01:10 AM XXCoder: ith plastics tool rubbing would cause plastic to melt nd stick to tool
01:18 AM fragalot: hi
01:19 AM XXCoder: yo
01:21 AM MrHindsight: sector_0: they are made too light, they bend and flex and vibrate
01:22 AM MrHindsight: I've never been in a high precision Chinese shop that didn't have western CNC machines
01:22 AM `Wolf is now known as Guest41286
01:25 AM fragalot: MrHindsight: have you ever been in a high precision chinese shop?
01:25 AM MrHindsight: https://hackaday.com/2013/10/17/unorthodox-home-made-cnc-machine/
01:25 AM MrHindsight: yrs
01:25 AM MrHindsight: yes even
01:25 AM fragalot: also - there are very high quality eastern machines too
01:25 AM MrHindsight: Taiwanese
01:26 AM fragalot: japanese
01:26 AM MrHindsight: they are prctically uhmerican
01:26 AM fragalot: :P
01:26 AM fragalot: matsuura, mazak, doosan,..
01:27 AM MrHindsight: many vendors make their castings in China
01:27 AM MrHindsight: some even have western workers QC them
01:28 AM fragalot: yup
01:31 AM `Wolf_ is now known as Wolfmetalfab
01:39 AM miss0r: goodmirning
01:39 AM fragalot: top of the mornin' sir
01:40 AM XXCoder: good pre-mormning
01:40 AM miss0r: I ended up machining a file to fit in a clapped out reciprocating saw last night. That worked a treat :D
01:40 AM fragalot: xD
01:40 AM XXCoder: shaped a part well eh
01:41 AM miss0r: my neighboor threw it out because it 'could't go fast no more'. Which was perfect for me
01:41 AM Wolfmetalfab: thats what this is for https://i.imgur.com/7Qm7f56.jpg
01:41 AM fragalot: miss0r: I cleared out 2m³ worth of stuff out of my shed to help make more room for the schaublin
01:41 AM fragalot: .. you can't tell and I haven't gained any space
01:42 AM fragalot: Wolfmetalfab: what on earth is that
01:42 AM miss0r: I'm trying to make heads'n tails of it as well :S
01:42 AM fragalot: looks like a 60's style rotary tool
01:43 AM Wolfmetalfab: http://diprofil.com/products/machines-accessories/di-profilers-polishing-filing-machines/
01:43 AM fragalot: just found that :P
01:43 AM fragalot: fancy
01:43 AM miss0r: mine was free xP
01:44 AM Wolfmetalfab: $150 for this, and it can use fordom hand pieces
01:44 AM miss0r: XP <- smiley, if in doubt
01:44 AM fragalot: miss0r: have you seen ToT's filing video?
01:44 AM miss0r: fragalot: yeah. that machine wouldn't have been any good here anyway
01:44 AM fragalot: miss0r: bet you could have made it work
01:44 AM miss0r: for something it is nice though, but I can't have a file all the way through
01:45 AM fragalot: Wolfmetalfab: the only local distributor of foredom handpieces that i know of retired last week
01:45 AM Wolfmetalfab: some compay makes a adapter for files and brushes for recp saws
01:45 AM fragalot: so now I can't seem to find any more without importing them myself
01:45 AM ktchk: a 1.8deg 200step motor 5mm/turn goes 0.025mm per motor step, what about 300step 3phase 1.2deg
01:45 AM fragalot: miss0r: I think you can mount a file on one end only
01:45 AM fragalot: it's just held on both sides for stability
01:46 AM fragalot: ktchk: highschool math.
01:46 AM miss0r: I'm not sure about that design he has there can do that. But I have seen die filers where it just moves up and down from underneath - with no overhead support
01:46 AM fragalot: 5mm/turn, and it takes 300 steps per turn
01:46 AM fragalot: 5 / 300 = ?
01:46 AM miss0r: is this a test ? :P
01:47 AM fragalot: miss0r: I think in his case the support part is the part underneath the table
01:47 AM Wolfmetalfab: its almost 3am I cant math
01:47 AM fragalot: given that the file is mounted on the top part
01:47 AM fragalot: in any case it's just a big C frame that moves up and down
01:47 AM miss0r: yeah. but the mounting system that machine of his uses, would never be able to do a one point/end support
01:47 AM fragalot: make a better one
01:47 AM ktchk: how to advance 0.025mm for 5/300
01:47 AM fragalot: you've got the tools
01:47 AM fragalot: ktchk: microstepping
01:48 AM miss0r: sure.. I'll slap together a large die filer for this one task :P WHERE TO PUT IT?!
01:48 AM Wolfmetalfab: lol
01:48 AM ktchk: do you stop a stepper motor at 1/4 of a 1.8deg?
01:48 AM Wolfmetalfab: I can relate
01:48 AM fragalot: ktchk: you get a good motor drive that is able to create additional steps in between the 300 that the motor supports, so instead of 300, for example you could make it do 600 or 900 steps
01:48 AM fragalot: it does that by activating 2 coils halfway rather than 1 coil all the way
01:49 AM Wolfmetalfab: keep in mind micro step = less torque
01:49 AM ktchk: that is 0.9 dg
01:49 AM miss0r: Wolfmetalfab: I have no space left in here. :D
01:49 AM miss0r: fragalot: So tomorrow is, perhaps, the big day ? :D
01:49 AM ktchk: for 3 phase 1.2 deg that is 0.8 deg
01:49 AM fragalot: ktchk: easy answer: if your drive can't microstep fine enough, then you can not make the move you wanted and it will round it off.
01:49 AM Wolfmetalfab: my surface grinder and 2nd vidmar cabinet is still sitting in the box truck body
01:50 AM fragalot: miss0r: hopefully, I don't want to have taken the day off tomorrow only to learn it's ocming on tuesday instead
01:50 AM Wolfmetalfab: plan B gear reduction
01:50 AM miss0r: fragalot: fingers crossed
01:50 AM fragalot: miss0r: indeed
01:50 AM fragalot: also, I had to make my ramp out of pine without sheet metal on it
01:51 AM fragalot: because there are 3 local wood dealers that carry hardwood
01:51 AM fragalot: i used them last month
01:51 AM fragalot: one appears to have shut down permanently
01:51 AM miss0r: did you 'chamfer' the end of the lowest plywood sheet, so sit flush with the walkway?
01:51 AM fragalot: the other appears to have been bought by a large DIY chain that doesn't carry hardwood anymore
01:51 AM fragalot: and the third is only open on wednesday afternoon between 2-4pm
01:52 AM miss0r: odd place of buisness
01:52 AM Wolfmetalfab: are you sliding the thing or rolling it ?
01:52 AM fragalot: I could also not find any steel sheet metal above 0.5mm thickness
01:52 AM fragalot: or I had to buy a 1meter strip of 3x15 for €20
01:52 AM miss0r: wtf... if you drive now, you can almost make it back in time, if you come here to pick up a sheet ;)
01:53 AM fragalot: currently there is no plywood on it, it's just a solid ramp
01:53 AM Wolfmetalfab: fragalot: https://i.imgur.com/dTFdobt.jpg roll
01:53 AM fragalot: Wolfmetalfab: yeah i'm rolling it
01:54 AM Wolfmetalfab: we rolled that up over the door threshold about 40cm lip
01:54 AM miss0r: fragalot: Did you get a winch?
01:54 AM fragalot: yes
01:54 AM fragalot: 1 ton, 3 meter chain
01:55 AM fragalot: because they didn't have anything larger
01:55 AM miss0r: Thats a bit short, ha ? :)
01:55 AM fragalot: it's fine, I've got enough climbing gear to extend it
01:55 AM fragalot: just need the pulling force
01:55 AM miss0r: I have a wire winch, with a crank handle on it. it has 15meters of wire. But it is only a 750kg. But that is quite plenty for dragging stuff
01:55 AM Wolfmetalfab: pull it 3m, hold it in place with whatever, reset
01:56 AM miss0r: yeah
01:56 AM fragalot: miss0r: oh I could borrow one of those that can pull ~15 tons from a friend
01:56 AM fragalot: but I prefer to feel when i'm about to snap something, lol
01:56 AM ktchk: with increament of 0.0125mm with a 200 steps motor and a 5mm screw (halh step) how to make it smaller?
01:56 AM miss0r: *CRASH* "did it fall over?!" "I don't know, I can't feel any difference on this end"
01:56 AM Wolfmetalfab: lol
01:57 AM fragalot: ktchk: 2 options; microstep finer, or use a reduction like a pulley or gear
01:57 AM Wolfmetalfab: ^ that
01:57 AM Deejay: moin
01:57 AM miss0r: morning Deejay
01:57 AM fragalot: ktchk: bear in mind that there are not a lot of machines that will respond to less than a 0.01mm move anyway
01:57 AM ktchk: fragalot: did you make it work on you machine?
01:58 AM Wolfmetalfab: morning Deejay (this means I should be sleeping) lol
01:58 AM fragalot: ktchk: I'm microstepping 5000 steps on a 5mm leadscrew
01:58 AM ktchk: can you increase to 0.01.6mm ?
01:59 AM ktchk: can you increase to 0.0126mm ?
01:59 AM fragalot: that is not a real number
01:59 AM fragalot: :P
01:59 AM fragalot: no, but it will do 0.012 or 0.013
01:59 AM fragalot: 'probably'
01:59 AM ktchk: did you?
01:59 AM Wolfmetalfab: resolution is kinda relative to what machine and what youre trying to do also…
02:00 AM ktchk: machine is 200 step motor and a 5mm screw no gear box
02:00 AM fragalot: ktchk: and the drive is able to turn the 200 step motor into a 5000 step one
02:01 AM ktchk: no way to stop in bewtreen 0.9 deg
02:01 AM Wolfmetalfab: 25x micro step?
02:01 AM fragalot: ktchk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRoT3qpndbU
02:01 AM miss0r: ktchk: Yes there is
02:02 AM fragalot: Wolfmetalfab: possible with some drives, though I doubt that if I told it to step in a direction for only one step that it would actually do it
02:02 AM ktchk: linuxcnc increament in ini file can do a single step of 0.0125mm
02:03 AM Wolfmetalfab: doesn’t really matter, most machines frames will move around in tolerances more then the 0.0125mm movement commanded
02:03 AM fragalot: the ini file can also do a single step of 10mm
02:03 AM fragalot: or 0.00001mm
02:04 AM ktchk: no way for 0.00001mm
02:04 AM fragalot: it's just a configuration file to tell linuxcnc what distance a single step will move
02:04 AM fragalot: it doesn't "adjust" anything
02:04 AM miss0r: some machine 'can' do that.
02:04 AM ktchk: try it
02:04 AM miss0r: but they are not your garden vareity diy cnc
02:04 AM fragalot: ktchk: let's take a few steps back
02:04 AM Wolfmetalfab: there is a good reason why most people dont bother to put 1um scales on most things lol
02:04 AM fragalot: ktchk: do you, or do you not, already have a machine in mind?
02:05 AM fragalot: Wolfmetalfab: i'm going to put those on my schaublin because I hate myself
02:05 AM miss0r: Wolfmetalfab: Hey! my mill has 1um scales on it! from factory :D
02:05 AM Wolfmetalfab: lol
02:05 AM ktchk: I have test on few machine
02:05 AM fragalot: miss0r: does yours also do that weird thing where it rounds the number when jogging?
02:05 AM fragalot: ktchk: ok, and have you ever configured a drive to do microstepping?
02:05 AM miss0r: fragalot: Not that I have noticed - what are you referring to?
02:05 AM ktchk: always
02:06 AM Wolfmetalfab: ktchk: what type of machine are you building?
02:06 AM fragalot: ktchk: what number do you set it to?
02:06 AM ktchk: 0.0125mm
02:06 AM fragalot: miss0r: on the Deckel FP42NC, when you use the manual wheel or jog it, the number always increments in 0.001mm like you expect.. but when you switch to a different axis, it rounds it to 0.01mm
02:07 AM fragalot: ktchk: on the motor drive itself. What microstepping do you set it to?
02:07 AM miss0r: fragalot: That is not the case with mine
02:07 AM ktchk: 125
02:07 AM fragalot: that's not a possible number
02:07 AM ktchk: max is 256
02:08 AM fragalot: it is either 1:2, 1:4, 1:8,..
02:08 AM Wolfmetalfab: my 1um scale on my lathe drives me nuts, always jitters
02:08 AM fragalot: so it's 128
02:08 AM fragalot: that means that you are doing 200*128 steps per revolution of the motor
02:08 AM miss0r: Wolfmetalfab: meh.. get a machine with more ol'iron
02:08 AM ktchk: not stop in between
02:08 AM fragalot: so you have a 5/25600 resolution
02:09 AM fragalot: or 0.00195mm
02:09 AM fragalot: ktchk: it DOES stop in between
02:09 AM ktchk: no way
02:09 AM miss0r: ktchk: it 'can' stop in between steps
02:09 AM fragalot: ktchk: that is what microstepping is
02:09 AM ktchk: o.9 deg
02:09 AM fragalot: ktchk: 0.9° is a 1:2 microstep
02:09 AM ktchk: not 0.45 deg
02:09 AM XXCoder: in pracial sense theres point where it kinda wander a little
02:09 AM fragalot: ktchk: 0.45° would be 1:4
02:09 AM miss0r: :o This is getting interresting. :D
02:09 AM XXCoder: 256 microsteps isnt any more precise
02:09 AM fragalot: XXCoder: of course not
02:10 AM fragalot: but microstepping does make things smoother
02:10 AM miss0r: XXCoder: no, but the increments are smaller :D
02:10 AM ktchk: smoother yes
02:10 AM XXCoder: not sure how far is worthy of going though.
02:10 AM XXCoder: like 4x, 8x or 1024x :P
02:10 AM miss0r: XXCoder: depends on your temper :D
02:10 AM fragalot: beyond 8x there is not much to gain
02:11 AM fragalot: the only reason i've got mine sest to 5000 steps is because it makes the math easier
02:11 AM miss0r: but me wantz microdegree step precision!
02:11 AM fragalot: :P
02:11 AM XXCoder: lol
02:11 AM ktchk: gear box will do
02:12 AM miss0r: ktchk: it absolutly can 'stop in between steps'
02:12 AM XXCoder: backlash
02:12 AM fragalot: ktchk: sure, but with a gearbox you get backlash
02:12 AM ktchk: good gear box
02:12 AM miss0r: okay, less backlash
02:12 AM Wolfmetalfab: harmonic drives are nice a cheap….
02:12 AM ktchk: try it on your machine
02:12 AM miss0r: but backlash nontheless
02:12 AM Wolfmetalfab: a/and
02:12 AM ktchk: harmonic gear
02:13 AM miss0r: okay, even less backlash, but it is still there
02:13 AM ktchk: I have a 50:1 harmonic gear
02:13 AM miss0r: microstepping is good for math :)
02:15 AM ktchk: now my area have 3phase 0.12 deg stepper I can do the math
02:19 AM * Wolfmetalfab still wonders what type of cnc machine needs to have 0.012mm step…
02:19 AM miss0r: Wolfmetalfab: One that does not crap out chinesium quality products
02:19 AM Wolfmetalfab: lol
02:20 AM miss0r: I can step my big old mill 0.001mm at a time. I have verified this with a dial
02:20 AM ktchk: try it on a c-4 screw
02:20 AM ktchk: taiwan
02:20 AM Wolfmetalfab: oh derp thats half thou
02:21 AM miss0r: Why would that be an issue?
02:21 AM miss0r: its 4/10.000 inch
02:22 AM ktchk: real? not 1/2000 inch
02:23 AM fragalot: Wolfmetalfab: :P
02:23 AM Wolfmetalfab: 0.001 inch = thou
02:23 AM ktchk: half thou
02:24 AM Wolfmetalfab: its past 3am here, math is hard
02:24 AM Wolfmetalfab: lol
02:24 AM ktchk: north america?
02:24 AM Wolfmetalfab: yeah
02:24 AM ktchk: I am in Hong kong
02:29 AM Wolfmetalfab: omg lmao, 30+ yr old parallel set, the 1.75” is still in the packing paper…
02:29 AM fragalot: ktchk: how far away are you from Huaqiangbei?
02:31 AM ktchk: Huaqiangbei??
02:31 AM miss0r: the electronics & other stuff market!
02:31 AM miss0r: or is that place not real? :D
02:31 AM ktchk: one hour
02:32 AM ktchk: I don't go there but use Taobao.com
02:32 AM fragalot: do they have an 'english' button?
02:33 AM ktchk: no
02:33 AM miss0r: google chrome does
02:33 AM miss0r: it looks like ebay
02:34 AM ktchk: but in those pictures no english, and they do not ship international. use alibaba.com
02:34 AM ktchk: allibaba.com
02:34 AM fragalot: yeah no
02:36 AM miss0r: I have to run. socialize'n stuff :/ ttyl
02:36 AM fragalot: Enjoy
03:07 AM gloops: did you get any good photos fragalot?
03:27 AM gloops: did you get any good photos fragalot?
03:41 AM gloops: photography on the mind atm as have got 3 big boxes of old gear to sort out
03:41 AM fragalot: gloops: I did, bt i've only sorted through about a third of the ones I took
03:45 AM gloops: any posted online yet?
03:45 AM fragalot: no
03:46 AM gloops: lol, bit slack there for a photographer, the first pics are usually edited and on flickr before the first cup of tea is made when they get back from the mountain
03:46 AM fragalot: I'm not on flickr :-
03:46 AM fragalot: :-)
03:46 AM gloops: not on flickr...
03:46 AM fragalot: these are just going into a physical album when i'm done sorting through
03:46 AM gloops: you should have at least 4 lost flickr accounts
03:47 AM fragalot: oh there is a lost one probably
03:47 AM fragalot: but haven't used that in at least 6 years
03:48 AM gloops: got a fair size metz flash unit here im going to try charging in a minute, 6 batteries
03:49 AM fragalot: 64?
03:49 AM gloops: 45 CL-1
03:49 AM fragalot: I thought that one took 4 batteries
03:50 AM fragalot: apparently not, lol
03:50 AM gloops: no its got 6 slots - thankfully someone made tippex squares and marked the +- locations
03:50 AM fragalot: lol
03:53 AM gloops: whoo very nice high pitch whine
03:53 AM fragalot: as long as it's a quick one :)
03:53 AM gloops: but no lights on..
03:55 AM gloops: so, maybe 2 batteries not charged enough, or its a duff, capacitor seem to charge though
03:56 AM fragalot: llshame
03:58 AM gloops: it might still work, 2 of the batteries werent charged much, will try again later - would be useful for night stuff, lighting buildings and whatever
03:59 AM fragalot: have you got a remote & gels for it?
04:00 AM gloops: its got a bundle of cable with it and tripod fitting, would probably connect it to flash on camera
04:00 AM fragalot: that works
04:00 AM gloops: for long exposure at niht - simply fire it constantly manually
04:01 AM Wolf__: flash photography is even more fun with wireless flash triggers
04:01 AM fragalot: that's a common trick to do building photography
04:01 AM fragalot: set up camera, go pop some light in random spots
04:01 AM fragalot: (when I say random, I mean well thought out)
04:01 AM Wolf__: can do all sorts of neat effects
04:01 AM gloops: yeah i have got various optical triggered units
04:02 AM Wolf__: I mean RF trigger =)
04:02 AM fragalot: I love my RF setup
04:02 AM fragalot: because it's compatible with nearly every brand of flash :P
04:02 AM Wolf__: that too =)
04:03 AM Wolf__: mine works as a flash or shutter trigger
04:03 AM gloops: thats more ok for set pieces, studio and so on, its pretty convenient sometimes just to drop a few optically triggered units where you want them and start shooting though
04:03 AM gloops: on the basis of - could do with some light from here and a bit over there etc
04:04 AM Wolf__: I use my rf w/ the regular cannon speedlite on camera flash, but it lets you put it in odd places for effect
04:04 AM fragalot: i've got a mixed bag of sony, nissin and canon flashes
04:05 AM fragalot: all RF capable if i've got a nissin flash on my camera
04:05 AM Wolf__: I haven’t had my camera out in 2 yrs… =/
04:05 AM fragalot: Boo.
04:06 AM gloops: my favourite is probably a yongnuo, have got nikon and sigma, various others, loads of random obsolete units that came with old ddr cameras
04:06 AM fragalot: gloops: I prefer RF over optical just because in my experience it's a lot more reliable.. (and it works with TTL metering)
04:06 AM fragalot: plus I can change the settings remotely
04:08 AM gloops: yes its a comprehensive system
04:09 AM fragalot: check out the nissin air 1
04:09 AM fragalot: not that expensive, very easy to use
04:12 AM gloops: i probably wouldnt buy much new photo gear these days, i lost the bug a while ago, still like to use a camera occasionally though
04:59 AM jthornton: morning
05:16 AM miss0r: mornin' JT
05:17 AM miss0r: Question for you: When it comes to the mesa boards' digital inputs; are there a build-in pull down resistor, or do I need to think about that myself? and what about signal debouncing?
05:17 AM miss0r: jthornton: ^
05:19 AM jthornton: you just connect a switch like this http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/configs/7i77.html
05:19 AM jthornton: you can use the debounce component if you have bouncy switches
05:20 AM miss0r: so it already does what I asked :)
05:20 AM miss0r: great :]
05:21 AM miss0r: I'm not so worried about bouncy switches, I'm more worried about HF noise generating trancients
05:21 AM jthornton: plasma?
05:21 AM miss0r: But then again.. those are rarely above 5 volts...
05:21 AM miss0r: nah, ooold DC "VFD"
05:22 AM miss0r: I haven't done any measurements on it as of yet, I am just plotting
05:22 AM jthornton: aye some vfd's can be noisy
05:26 AM miss0r: but this is not usualy a problem with the components?
05:27 AM jthornton: I don't understand the question
05:27 AM miss0r: the mesa boards are pretty hardened when it comes to noise
05:28 AM miss0r: with buildin pulldowns and the option to add a debouncing module
05:28 AM jthornton: the debounce is a LinuxCNC HAL component
05:28 AM miss0r: good enough for me :) as long as that option is there, in case of noise
05:29 AM jthornton: you would have to ask pcw about the board specifics
05:29 AM miss0r: Sure, but I got what I wanted already
05:36 AM gloops: whaay my metz flash has a light..although it is red
05:37 AM gloops: i dont know anything about capacitors, but maybe when they havent been charged for years, they can be tempermental to start with
05:38 AM gloops: it works lol
05:41 AM miss0r: gloops: electrolyte capasitors if used and then stored away has a tendancy to dry out. This is more true for older designs.
05:41 AM miss0r: Be carefull charging them, they might be shorted internally
05:42 AM gloops: miss0r do they recover from that when charged again? this one seems to have anyway
05:42 AM miss0r: from some stages that are not completely dried up, you can recover them
05:43 AM miss0r: a good idea is to charge them slowly through a resistor, slowly upping the voltage
05:43 AM miss0r: preferable from a bench psu
05:43 AM gloops: i dont know what type is used for camera flashes - this morning it made the charging whine sound, but was otherwise apparently dead - now its working fine
05:44 AM miss0r: that is a type of electrolyte cap
05:44 AM miss0r: but if you have it working now, you're out'a the woods
05:44 AM miss0r: well, at the point it is no more likely to short out than if you had just been using it all along
05:45 AM gloops: ahh well, didnt cost me anything, see how long it lasts
05:45 AM miss0r: The beauty of camera flash systems are they are charged with a very limited current to a high voltage. essentially it has its own recovery system
05:45 AM miss0r: you can imagine the mess if a cap in a high amperage DC powersupply shorts.
05:46 AM gloops: hmm good thing then, it must have been in the box for 10 years
05:47 AM gloops: miss0r hopefully there is some physical protection built into the casing to save my fingers being de-skinned if it goes up
05:47 AM gloops: or my eyes
05:48 AM miss0r: hehe. unlikely
05:48 AM miss0r: but in the case of camera flashes, they are not exactly handgrenades in there
05:48 AM miss0r: worst case, the housing get a crack
05:49 AM gloops: nah, iver never heard of a flash causing injury come to think of it
05:50 AM miss0r: indeed
05:51 AM miss0r: I made one of those insest bats at some years ago. you know the ones - they charge and spark when you hit a bug with'em
05:51 AM gloops: not seen them but sounds fun
05:51 AM miss0r: I fused it with something simular to a camera flash.. When you hit a bumblebee with that thing, it gave a massive boom and the poor bug was *NOWHERE* to be found
05:51 AM miss0r: mostly evaporated, I think :)
05:52 AM gloops: haha, could spend many a happy hour with one of those
05:52 AM miss0r: they look like tennis bats, but consists of two parallel meshes, one for plus and one for minus. Then when the bug hits, it shorts out the cap
05:52 AM miss0r: *poof*
05:53 AM gloops: lol, that sounds like a good idea
05:53 AM miss0r: a few years ago all the supermarkets had'em. you'd find one on every street corner. some chinesium export stuff, dirt cheap
05:54 AM miss0r: they werent good for anything bigger than mosquitos out'a the box. and if you hit two insets at the same time, it hardly had the punch to take both of'em out.
05:54 AM miss0r: lets just say; my modified version could've taken down a swarm in one hit ;)
05:54 AM gloops: ive never seen them, maybe banned here or me just not getting out enough
05:55 AM jthornton: I have a couple of them and the ones I have have quite a punch
05:56 AM gloops: well, my next addition machine wise is a vertical table for joint cutting
05:57 AM miss0r: digging through some old boxes, from the previous house owner: He left quite a bunch of realy nice files
05:57 AM gloops: will need to be hinged in some way to control the angle
05:57 AM miss0r: I just found a Urehbankfeile "DICK 3", germany. This is a lathe file
05:58 AM miss0r: also, a carbide tipped handscraper :o
05:58 AM gloops: i love looking through boxes of old stuff
05:58 AM miss0r: I never found out who the old owner of this is.
05:59 AM miss0r: I don't know the english term, but we bought the house from the family, because their parents living in the house had died
05:59 AM miss0r: the husband did something for the army, noone knew for sure what it was.. *excitement*. nevertheless; he left behind quite a few good quality tools I am now using
06:00 AM Jin^eLD: hi, maybe someone has a hint for me. I am writing a HAL component and I have the feeling that my FUNCTION(_) never gets called. I tried adding rtapi_print_msg() or setting a pin to a specific value, but I see no changes. I thought its supposed to get called periodically? Or do I need to set up an own thread via HAL for that?
06:00 AM gloops: hmm, maybe a mechanical engineer in the army or something
06:00 AM jthornton: Jin^eLD: did you addf the function?
06:01 AM miss0r: that is possible. i honnestly don't know. Based upon some documentation left behind, I would say he did something with their radar system
06:01 AM Jin^eLD: no... I guess i missed that in the component tutorial
06:02 AM Jin^eLD: jthornton: thanks for the hint, will read up on addf
06:02 AM jthornton: are you reading this? http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/hal/basic-hal.html
06:03 AM Jin^eLD: interestinly there is no mention of that in http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/hal/comp.html although a lot of examples use functions
06:03 AM Jin^eLD: ah, I missed he basics then :)
06:04 AM jthornton: I need to put a link in there to the basic hal
06:04 AM Jin^eLD: or just add a note somewhere that this is needed in order for the functions to get called
06:06 AM jthornton: needs a section after installing for using a comp
06:06 AM Jin^eLD: the comp.html has all the info for loading and connecting pins, just mentioning addf would be helpful there as well
06:07 AM Jin^eLD: or like that yes :)
06:07 AM Jin^eLD: anyway, thank you, now I know what I missed
06:17 AM Jin^eLD: hmm but seems I have no threads running
06:17 AM Jin^eLD: so I need to start the servo-thread manually via my .hal config too?
06:18 AM jthornton: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/hal/tutorial.html
06:18 AM Jin^eLD: ok seems so, for a testing only environment at least
06:18 AM jthornton: look at the simple example
06:19 AM Jin^eLD: yep thats it, thanks, doh I should really take the time to go through all docs step by step :) jumped into components too quickly
06:27 AM jthornton: Jin^eLD: this is what I just added to the component chapter https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/GcZNZwhXYQ/
06:27 AM jthornton: would that have been enough information?
06:27 AM Jin^eLD: please add the start command too
06:27 AM Jin^eLD: that was the last thing I was missing but I now knew where to look for it :)
06:28 AM Jin^eLD: finally got my basic setup going
06:28 AM Jin^eLD: naiky_test.hal is actually a good example for simulations
06:32 AM * jthornton gets back to coding the 7i96 configuration tool
06:34 AM Tom_L: rain
06:36 AM jthornton: yippie 60's to 80's on the way
07:04 AM gloops: hmm just had a fab idea for a vertical table/surface on my router
07:05 AM gloops: ive got one of those old manual dovetail jigs, with cammed fast release clamping system, all i got to do is mount that vertical under the router table - perfect
08:32 AM fragalot: hi
08:34 AM veek: https://share-ng.sandia.gov/news/resources/news_releases/resistant_alloy/
08:59 AM gloops: so i bid on a PC in the last 8 hours thinking it looked a fair deal
09:00 AM gloops: only now do i look at the geezers other items and see its a pile of salvaged computer parts
09:02 AM gloops: so unlikely this is a 'little used family PC' much more likely he bodged it together from junk
09:02 AM fragalot: what's the difference?
09:03 AM gloops: maybe none at all
09:03 AM gloops: but this is like buying a used car, you dont really want the guy to come out of the garage wearing a welding mask when you turn up for a viewing
09:35 AM jthornton: how do you calculate the time to reach max speed from max acceleration and max velocity?
09:36 AM fragalot: jthornton: ask yourself what units are these 2 things in? :-)
09:37 AM jthornton: well lets start with inch per second velocity and inch per second per second acceleration
09:38 AM fragalot: right, so you've got a spare 'second' in there, which means that if you put it in the right formula, you'll end up with a time in seconds
09:41 AM pcw_home: (1 In/S) / (1 In/S^2) = 1 S
09:41 AM jthornton: thanks
09:42 AM fragalot: pcw_home: we're talking about time, not conductivity. :-)
09:42 AM pcw_home: :-)
09:50 AM rebecca: crap... my estops purchased months ago are actually just momentary rather than latching.
09:51 AM gloops: that would still work wouldnt it?
09:51 AM fragalot: gloops: yes and no
09:52 AM fragalot: yes, it MAY work, but no it should never be used as an estop
09:52 AM gloops: you get the signal, the stop event is triggered
09:52 AM fragalot: but it unlatches again so it can be restarted without being reset
09:52 AM gloops: wont it need resetting from linuxcnc?
09:52 AM fragalot: estops have to be latching NC that are guaranteed to break the circuit
09:53 AM fragalot: that's just software
09:53 AM fragalot: never trust software
09:53 AM gloops: now you tell me!
09:54 AM rebecca: yup, what fragalot said
09:55 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rotary-adjustable-lever-arm-limit-switch-for-plasma-CNC-mill-blue-PF/332371954915?
09:55 AM gloops: i got those for limits, never failed yet
09:55 AM rebecca: i'll use it for now. because i'm currently just constructing a 1 axis test config
09:56 AM gloops: getting the urge to construct again, after the hot weather break in proceedings
09:56 AM fragalot: gloops: ESTOP, not limit
09:56 AM fragalot: there is a difference
09:56 AM fragalot: a limit switch protects the machine from harming itself
09:56 AM fragalot: an estop protects the operator
09:57 AM gloops: yes i know, i didnt bother with estop
09:57 AM fragalot: you should
09:57 AM fragalot: mine's mounted on my MPG pendant so it's close by at all times
09:57 AM gloops: a cnc router is the safest machine in the world
09:57 AM fragalot: until you get your hand caught in it
09:57 AM rebecca: lol
09:58 AM gloops: i wont get caught in it, i start it from several feet away and dont go near it when its cutting
09:59 AM rebecca: emergency measures are not for when everything is happening as planned
09:59 AM fragalot: your loss. just don't say we didn't warn you.
10:00 AM fragalot: just like the ground issue you had; it's not because you don't think you don't need it that you aren't glad you have it right
10:00 AM fragalot: (or something like that)
10:01 AM gloops: its fine, the main power switch is within reach
10:02 AM gloops: tbh i dont even think there is room for any more switches on the BOB, or anything else, at all
10:13 AM Tom_L: wireless Estop ftw
10:13 AM Tom_L: you can easily mount it anywhere then :D
10:15 AM Tom_L: does RPI work with linuxcnc very well?
10:16 AM pcw_home: very might be a bit extreme
10:16 AM Tom_L: don't try it on a machine you plan to use for work then ehh?
10:17 AM pcw_home: Ive had one running master for about a month now and its OK but dont try to load big files with the backplot enabled
10:17 AM fragalot: you know how most large lathes have that giant ESTOP foot bar?
10:17 AM fragalot: I love how on my schaublin mill that's the "engage rapid auto-feed"
10:18 AM Tom_L: i love the footbar on lathes
10:18 AM Tom_L: while you're stomping your foot cause you just farked up you can also stop the lathe
10:19 AM pcw_home: and dont play with gremlin with complex backplots full screen, you will run out of memory and come to a abrupt stop
10:19 AM Tom_L: pcw_home, i know a guy that's thinking of trying it. i may try to sway him away from it
10:19 AM pcw_home: other than that it seems reliable
10:20 AM pcw_home: I have it running on a RPI specific FPGA card
10:20 AM Tom_L: are you selling em? or just testing
10:21 AM pcw_home: I think one of the RPI clones would be a better choice but ist a bit of work to get a RT kernel and SPI support going on them
10:21 AM pcw_home: may sell them, want a proto?
10:21 AM Tom_L: not me, i haven't used a RPI
10:23 AM pcw_home: the painful part about all the ARM SBCs is that unlike X86, every one is different in terms of booting/toolchains/low level utilities/weird proprietary blobs etc etc
10:57 AM fragalot_ is now known as fragalot
11:26 AM pjm is now known as Guest35748
11:30 AM jthornton: hazzy-lab: just pushed to the 7i96 configuration tool
11:30 AM Tom_L: pcw_home, have you looked at these? https://www.amazon.com/Tinker-board-RK3288-1-8GHz-Mali-T764/dp/B06VSBVQWS/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1534695894&sr=1-4&keywords=udoo&dpID=51XkGSoKSyL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch
11:31 AM hazzy-lab: jthornton: I'll look
11:34 AM beachbumpete1: hey guys everyone having a nice weekend?
11:35 AM Tom_L: showers here
11:35 AM beachbumpete1: yeah its pouring over here
11:37 AM Tom_L: still waiting to re'tram the mill after adding the risers
11:37 AM beachbumpete1: any of you guys have a good mill post for linuxCNC in Fusion360? The one in there is kinda crappy
11:37 AM beachbumpete1: risers?
11:37 AM Tom_L: no, i looked at it
11:37 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Z-Riser_blocks.jpg
11:37 AM beachbumpete1: I just posted a code with it and it had a tool callout folowed by another one immeditately which was quite odd
11:38 AM Tom_L: i want to extend Z travel
11:38 AM Tom_L: longer rails eventually
11:38 AM beachbumpete1: nice
11:38 AM beachbumpete1: never enough travel LOL
11:38 AM Tom_L: 10-11" is the goal
11:39 AM Tom_L: then i won't fight switching between plate and vise
11:39 AM beachbumpete1: aah
11:39 AM beachbumpete1: looks good tho man
11:40 AM beachbumpete1: I have been playing with this 3D printer kit and printed the first few parts
11:40 AM Tom_L: nice
11:40 AM beachbumpete1: its working ok but I am getting some initial layer shifting for some raeson
11:40 AM Tom_L: bed too hot?
11:40 AM beachbumpete1: once it gets past the first two layers it works perfect so I am wondering if its a setup issue
11:40 AM Tom_L: ( i know nothing about glue guns )
11:40 AM beachbumpete1: its at 55c
11:55 AM Tom_L: beachbumpete1
11:56 AM Tom_L: guy here from Fl is looking to build a cnc
11:56 AM Tom_L: figured you were close
11:59 AM beachbumpete1: what guy?
12:00 PM _unreal_: this guy
12:01 PM _unreal_: I'm in boca
12:01 PM beachbumpete1: heh
12:01 PM beachbumpete1: I'm in St. Lucie county
12:01 PM _unreal_: drive past there now and then when I take my daughter to disney
12:01 PM _unreal_: disney/universal
12:02 PM beachbumpete1: we are yearly passholders ;)
12:02 PM _unreal_: dido
12:02 PM _unreal_: to both
12:02 PM _unreal_: its a steal at nearly 2k
12:02 PM _unreal_: :p
12:02 PM __abc__: Hi. Is there a more #machining oriented channel? I would like to know what thread is recommended for vises, hand operated. ACME trapeze?
12:03 PM _unreal_: lol __abc__ yes
12:03 PM __abc__: yes to both?
12:03 PM __abc__ is now known as abc__
12:03 PM hazzy-lab: __abc__: yes ACME or square is best for very heavy loads
12:04 PM abc__: And the pitch needs to be fine enough for self lock? <15 degrees pitch angle?
12:04 PM hazzy-lab: or buttress thread :D
12:04 PM _unreal_: beachbumpete1, so ya I'm working on building a cnc machine at work that I own, but for the company.. you know the little extra $$ bump
12:04 PM _unreal_: I'm toying with a lot of options
12:04 PM _unreal_: I already have my Base built
12:05 PM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1liVagaNhtt7j3JF0HNRU3zKudPXCFLPb
12:05 PM hazzy-lab: abc__: right, but at long as you use a single start ACME will be self locking
12:06 PM abc__: I know but all I have is non ACME allthread and CNC trapeze ACME with 4 starts which is not self locking.
12:06 PM abc__: I have to hunt the necessary thing this week. I have an atrociously bad bench vise, .cn, I have to make it work a bit better.
12:07 PM _unreal_: your rebuilding a bench vise? abc__
12:07 PM abc__: Anyone got a link on a vise in this style? https://www.yostvises.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/100x100/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/s/fsv.jpg less than $200...
12:07 PM abc__: that one is $200 and overkill for me.
12:08 PM abc__: _unreal_: I will improve it a bit, I can't have it destroy everything I put in it
12:08 PM abc__: http://www.yostvises.com/yost-heavy-duty-4-forged-steel-vise.html product page. Note nice adjustable gibs
12:09 PM _unreal_: destroy everything you put in it?
12:09 PM _unreal_: uh.....
12:09 PM hazzy-lab: abc__: That is a very reasonable price for a decent looking vice ...
12:09 PM abc__: Yes but I need smaller, clamp mounted, and less heavy duty, but precise.
12:09 PM _unreal_: I'm not sure I follow. are you looking to get more TPI on the tension handle?
12:10 PM abc__: The thread in the current screw looks like M8 ... not nice.
12:10 PM abc__: Even when greased
12:10 PM pcw_home: Tom_L: I've looked at the Tinker but I'm not sure if a RT kernel will be easy for it since like most of these projects it does not use a stock Linux kernel
12:10 PM abc__: Do ACME or trapeze or rectangular thread taps exist?
12:10 PM miss0r: yeah
12:10 PM miss0r: They cost a bit more, but they're out there
12:11 PM abc__: Btw: devuan.org the systemd less debian is coming along nicely, I use it now on several machines, please consider as candidate for future live linuxcnc releases.
12:11 PM pcw_home: I'm messing with a "Potato" now their clain to fame is that they are trying to get all patched mainlined
12:11 PM miss0r: abc__: fist search first hit: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RDGTOOLS-HSS-ACME-TAP-1-2-x-10-TPI-RIGHT-HAND-HIGH-SPEED-STEEL/352138720525?hash=item51fd1a750d:g:T8oAAOSwfcVUF~Pm
12:11 PM _unreal_: I'm still trying to understand how the vise is destroying thing on you?
12:11 PM abc__: Potato is ancient! I gave up on Etch upgrading to devuan ascii this year!
12:12 PM abc__: _unreal_: it has play and it's screw executes a spiral motion when tightened.
12:12 PM abc__: _unreal_: this tightens whatever is in it in a spiral crushing motion
12:12 PM abc__: So there will be copper shims and there will be a new screw
12:12 PM _unreal_: ahhh ok so your issue is more to do with the Jaws not staying parallel
12:12 PM abc__: And a new knob likely. I hate the tightening bar.
12:13 PM _unreal_: thats more of a slide system then a thread issue I would think.......
12:13 PM miss0r: well. anything being damaged by not being clamped square, should never be mounted in a bench vise
12:13 PM _unreal_: miss0r, :)
12:13 PM miss0r: you should rather go get a milling or grinding vise, and hold that with your bench vise. Use the proper jaws to hold your workpeice
12:13 PM abc__: There are limits to what I would call linear motion you know. this vise seems to shimmy on a radius of about 1mm even when very nearly closed
12:13 PM _unreal_: abc__, I'm going to be honist...... a cheap new vise is prob going to do what you need for less then the cost and time of trying to modify your current vise
12:14 PM abc__: This is a cheap new vise.
12:14 PM abc__: I need it occasionally only so it is edge clamp type and utter crap
12:14 PM abc__: Cost $10 too.
12:14 PM abc__: Problem is, there's nothing between $10 and $100 in shops here
12:14 PM miss0r: abc__: if you are experiencing such issues, get a vise like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-50mm-Precision-Grinding-VISE-VICE-Pin-Type-Screwless-Toolmakers-ATOZ/263818396141?hash=item3d6ccd41ed:g:cEQAAOSwLmlbTE4G
12:15 PM miss0r: and put a pair of softjaws in your benchvise to hold it with
12:15 PM _unreal_: abc__, where are you located? (country)
12:15 PM abc__: .ro
12:15 PM _unreal_: dont know .ro
12:15 PM miss0r: Romania?
12:15 PM _unreal_: ahh
12:15 PM miss0r: no - I'm asking too :D
12:15 PM abc__: I buy from hw stores and from the flea market, ads you post are useless excepting as hints about what to look for
12:16 PM miss0r: abc__: Any particular reason you can't order from the links I posted?
12:16 PM abc__: you got that right. I noticed we're all yanks here, the hams at least. Callsigns are Yankee Omega ...
12:16 PM abc__: miss0r: I very seldomly order from abroad there are problems with that.
12:16 PM abc__: I know the style you propose, it is good, but on the cnc and mill, not for manual work
12:16 PM miss0r: abc__: I was not aware of that. But I do recognize your problem with not clamping square. Have you thought about making a pair of softjaws to take up the slack?
12:17 PM abc__: Yes.
12:17 PM miss0r: and.. ? :D
12:17 PM miss0r: Also, I'm not american - I'm from Denmark
12:17 PM abc__: I remember you from ##electronics
12:18 PM miss0r: heh, for nothing bad, I hope ;)
12:18 PM abc__: Something like this but smaller would be very nice http://www.elephantmfg.com/products_detail.asp?pid=71
12:18 PM miss0r: I have one simular to that one.
12:18 PM miss0r: Only for light duty work
12:19 PM abc__: I'd prefer threaded main rod + quick unlock but hey
12:19 PM miss0r: What are you clamping, if you don't mind me asking?
12:19 PM abc__: Usually small parts, FR4, aluminum, brass. Seldomly mild steel
12:19 PM abc__: Also this is strictly for manual work, saw, file, dress, glue etc
12:20 PM miss0r: indeed. I don't suppose you have a milling machine?
12:20 PM abc__: I have access to cnc, drill press with xy table, etc. This is strictly for bench work.
12:20 PM miss0r: yeah - I was just thinking about the modifications you could make the that vise of yours, to get a good square clamp
12:20 PM abc__: drill/mill with *
12:21 PM abc__: Sure I can put it on the cnc and dress the jaws etc.
12:21 PM miss0r: Have you thought about closing the vise, and milling a step in the jaws?
12:21 PM abc__: Yes, but that is secondary to removing the monster play in the vise ways.
12:21 PM miss0r: theres a fair chance those two surfaces will stay square(within reason for a bench vise)
12:22 PM miss0r: the jaws or the "linear slide" ?
12:22 PM abc__: the "linear".
12:22 PM miss0r: question about that: was your bench vise like this from the start or have it worn into this state?
12:22 PM * miss0r can't help think you are asking too much of a bench vise
12:23 PM abc__: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcLECQyLMCc heh
12:23 PM abc__: I don't expect miracles but I do expect it to work as well as all vises I've used since I was 9yo or so
12:24 PM miss0r: What I think you should go look for is something like this design: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-16-Shop-Fox-Clamp-On-Cast-Iron-Bench-Vise-Anvil-Surface-D4128-New-/370773139549
12:24 PM miss0r: With the dovetails
12:28 PM miss0r: Even if that one is off by alot, you have the option to scrape it in, and make it realy nice. The issue with the more commen vise, is the absolutly slobby design.
12:28 PM abc__: Are these things completely crap or are they reasonably serviceable for light duty? https://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-rugged-cast-iron-drill-press-milling-vise-69159.html
12:28 PM miss0r: In my honnest opinion there is not much that can be done to improve the regular ones. Well, there is, but the amount of work you have to put in it hardly compares to getting a dovetail one
12:28 PM abc__: miss0r: yes I know.
12:28 PM pcw_home: abc__: talking about hardware: "le Potato"
12:28 PM pcw_home: one of the many RPI clones
12:28 PM abc__: miss0r: yes the fox would be what I would buy here if I'd get it. But there isn't anything between $10 and $100, big gap.
12:28 PM miss0r: abc__: I would *not* recommend that particular design. unless you want something with even more slob
12:28 PM abc__: pcw_home: oh, I though Debian Potato. A blast from the past.
12:28 PM abc__: miss0r: ah
12:28 PM miss0r: abc__: not to worrie. The good dovetail vises are a thing of the past :] unless you want to pay out big buck. I'd start looking at used markets for this design
12:29 PM Guest35748 is now known as pjm
12:29 PM skunkworks: pjm!
12:29 PM abc__: I can look for a sh old one in the flea market
12:29 PM miss0r: abc_: heck, if you were already planning to spend alot of time restoring a vise, *AND* you have access to milling equipment, you could just make one ;)
12:29 PM abc__: Yeah, no. ;)
12:29 PM miss0r: :]
12:30 PM miss0r: I don't think the workload would change much compared to making a proper vise out of the other one ;)
12:30 PM abc__: Hmm interesting ideas https://www.woodcraft.com/products/yost-heavy-duty-ductile-iron-woodworkers-vise-10-in-rapid-action
12:30 PM beachbumpete1: _unreal sorry I had a phone call
12:31 PM pjm: skunkworks, yo!
12:31 PM miss0r: abc__: Also, light duty. all vises where the load is handled by round ways have that fault in'em
12:31 PM abc__: miss0r: I do delicate work in it, it's okay
12:32 PM miss0r: well, in that case :) They are good when it comes to squareness. UNLESS, you decide to clamp a small part off center. then it will do all sorts of crazy with you - again because the round ways can't handle the load
12:33 PM miss0r: anyway. The wife is probally starting to wonder why I am taking this long to smoke a cigarette. I have to run. See you around
12:33 PM beachbumpete1: _unreal_
12:33 PM * miss0r is off
12:34 PM abc__: Can one get nylon/abs jaws in most sizes?
12:39 PM abc__: https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-universal-vise is this style okay? I like it, albeit a bit expensive for what I have in mind,
12:39 PM abc__: also looks solidly guided on all sides
12:40 PM abc__: It's about 80EUR it had better be good
12:44 PM gloops: well, first 2 days as a vaper, conclusion - vaping is a lot better than i thought it would be
12:44 PM abc__: What was in the liquid? >;)
12:44 PM gloops: on the downside, im now addicted to vaping AND tobacco
12:44 PM abc__: lol. Good one gloops.
12:44 PM gloops: abc__ nothing unethical, just 18mg tobacco liquid
12:51 PM valentin_s: Hey guys, i'm Valentin, 19 year old student from germany. I'm new to LinuxCNC and would like to control my CNC mill with LinuxCNC. Could anyone of you help me getting my Setup with a Mesa 7i96 up and running? From what i've read, the card is fully supported but there are no clear steps to make it work :)
12:52 PM jthornton: use my 7i96 configuration tool
12:52 PM jthornton: https://github.com/jethornton/7i96
12:54 PM skunkworks: valentin_s seems like an open source plant for jt... ;)
12:54 PM hazzy-lab: valentin_s: Welcome!
12:54 PM hazzy-lab: you can be the Guinea pig on JT's 7i96 confg tool :)
12:54 PM valentin_s: Thanks, jthornton. This looks nice. I will defenitly test it
12:55 PM jthornton: lol I was first
12:55 PM hazzy-lab: jthornton: you don't count :P
12:55 PM jthornton: lol
12:58 PM jthornton: I guess I should toss up a screen shot now
01:02 PM valentin_s: as i'm understanding, your software will generate the bitfile and will flash it to the mesa card. From where do I get the hal and ini files then?
01:04 PM jthornton: no, the bit files are included with my files and yes if you need to change the bit file my software can flash the card
01:04 PM jthornton: first thing to do is read the card to make sure you have communications set up correctly
01:05 PM valentin_s: i can test this by the show pin command, right?
01:05 PM jthornton: that is one way, you run my configuration software and select the IP address then press the read button
01:15 PM Jin^eLD: I wonder, can I get a pointer to a pin in a C component? somehing like p = &mypin; ?
01:17 PM Jin^eLD: or is hal_bit_t considered "internal"?
01:17 PM Jin^eLD: just want to make sure I don't violate anything :)
01:21 PM Tom_L: jthornton, did you just add hooks to mesaflash or write something else?
01:22 PM jthornton: well first I figured out if the pc is 32 bit or 64 bit then I just ran the proper mesaflash with the correct arguments
01:24 PM jthornton: valentin_s: I'll be monitoring the ##7i96 channel for any feedback
01:27 PM XXCoder: “No, it isn’t truth. Truth isn’t truth,” Giuliani replied.
01:42 PM gloops: Giuliani fixed all the broken windows
01:45 PM XXCoder: uggggh
01:45 PM XXCoder: smoke will be back tomorrow here
01:45 PM XXCoder: flipping great
01:52 PM jthornton: rain here monday then cooler temps for a while
01:53 PM XXCoder: jt looks like 2 days of "fun" tomorrow and tues
01:53 PM XXCoder: 85f, 90f with heavier smoke
01:54 PM Tom_L: 73F
01:54 PM * jthornton tries to remember how to not run a method if the text got changed by the program and not the user...
01:55 PM gloops: 4 engineers get in a car that won't start.. Mechanical engineer- Probably the starter. Electrical engineer- Nope, the battery. Chemical engineer- Impurities in the gasoline! IT guy- Can we get out of the car and get in again?
01:55 PM XXCoder: is it function made by you? you could always add parameter "program update" so it dont call that method
01:56 PM XXCoder: make that parameter default to 0
01:56 PM hazzy-lab: gloops: LOL
01:58 PM abc__: IT/cs is the most recklessness allowing occupation today.
01:58 PM abc__: Nobody else is allowed to deploy a buggy update and kill 100 million PCs remotely and then try again
01:58 PM hazzy-lab: jthornton: is it a user input signal and you don't want to emit it if you change the value grammatically?
01:58 PM jthornton: if self.sender().objectName() == 'actionOpen':
01:58 PM jthornton: return
01:58 PM jthornton: yup
01:59 PM XXCoder: abc__: yeah its getting to be serious problenm
02:09 PM XXCoder: i'm apparently an Xennial
02:10 PM XXCoder: https://mymodernmet.com/are-you-a-xennial/
02:11 PM XXCoder: lot of list isnt for me, as it all related to audio lol
02:16 PM fragalot_: hey
02:17 PM fragalot_: miss0r: https://imgur.com/gallery/rfYIXXe .. in a pinch.
02:18 PM XXCoder: if there was such thing as antifuse... that is it
02:18 PM XXCoder: blue one dont look good.
02:19 PM XXCoder: "My favorite is the blue one. You can see how many times it's saved you from having to buy a new fuse."
02:19 PM fragalot_: :P
02:22 PM Tom_L: not load balanced very well
02:23 PM XXCoder: nor is it fused well. they failed so bad that they have antifuses
02:28 PM fragalot_: sigyn needs to step up his game
02:28 PM fragalot_: that kill took a full 4 minutes
02:37 PM gloops: wheres Ichsguckslive these days?
02:37 PM XXCoder: he uses different nick for now
02:37 PM fragalot_: he goes by seasomething now
02:37 PM XXCoder: gucklive something>/
02:37 PM hazzy-lab: gloops, he does as sealive not
02:37 PM hazzy-lab: now*
02:37 PM gloops: i see thanks
02:37 PM Deejay: undercover? ;)
02:37 PM XXCoder: ah yes sealive
02:38 PM XXCoder: nah register required now
02:38 PM Deejay: ah jo, syyl has also problems writing ;)
02:39 PM gloops: +r seems a bit of a draconian measure
02:40 PM fragalot_: Deejay: had*
02:40 PM XXCoder: its not +r
02:40 PM gloops: what is it then?
02:40 PM XXCoder: its silent on $~a! or something
02:40 PM Deejay: ah okay
02:40 PM XXCoder: so people can enter but cant speak
02:40 PM fragalot_: it's just +cnt
02:40 PM XXCoder: unless registered
02:41 PM gloops: -freenode-connect- Due to the persistent ongoing spam, all new connections are being set +R (block messages from unidentified users)
02:41 PM XXCoder: thats for messages
02:41 PM XXCoder: funny because I never got any spam message, probably because im far down list abcs wise
02:42 PM gloops: me neither
03:03 PM * jthornton should haul another bucket of dirt to the chicken yard before the rain starts
03:10 PM pfred1: they said it is supposed to rain here today I'll believe it when I see it
03:10 PM Deejay: please send me all your rain
03:10 PM pfred1: yeah we've been pretty dry lately
03:10 PM pfred1: was wet in the spring though
03:11 PM pfred1: pretty much ruined all of my tomatoes
03:12 PM jthornton: it's been unusually wet this month here
03:12 PM pfred1: not here
03:13 PM pfred1: we usually have a dry spell in the summer though
04:17 PM Deejay: gn8
04:19 PM _unreal_: beachbumpete1, I'll be around in a few hours. helping my nearly 70yo father install a gutter on his house
04:19 PM _unreal_: and following his "palm to face" direction on how it "WILL" be done....... I could have been done hours ago
04:21 PM gloops: lol
04:32 PM Loetmichel: _unreal_: easy thing: "you want it done THAT way? PLEASE, be my guest. Do it yourself. Bye!"
04:47 PM _unreal_: got to love florida rain. rain dealy
04:47 PM _unreal_: delay
04:48 PM _unreal_: I told him, look all we have to do is mark all of are HOLES to be piloted. pilot the holes in the same location on the back. put the Gutter section up into place mark the first hole
04:49 PM _unreal_: Go to the other end. Mark the last hole SNAP a line and pilot holes at the same mesurments...
04:49 PM _unreal_: I got told I was daft... we need to mark the bottom of the gutter so we know where it is........
04:49 PM _unreal_: and dont forget this is seemless gutters so the entire run MUST be joined before install.. nearly 40' long
04:50 PM _unreal_: aluminum seamless
04:52 PM _unreal_: Ok so as to cnc stuff. do any of you know of a pulse generator that will feed steps or close loop data TO linuxcnc? What I'm looking for is to setup a cnc machine with a pulse generator That can also take an MPG pendent input. pass that data TO linux cnc or run with out the computer on. That way I can just JOG the machine..... to do tasks OR run it with the higher level computer input
04:53 PM _unreal_: pfred1, Where the hell do I know that nick from
04:54 PM pfred1: I've been around
04:54 PM _unreal_: ya I've used this handle for 20 years
04:55 PM pfred1: I used goofy nicks years ago
04:55 PM _unreal_: pfred1, so I have this BASE https://drive.google.com/open?id=1liVagaNhtt7j3JF0HNRU3zKudPXCFLPb I'm toying making my X the long axis
04:55 PM _unreal_: and Y the short axis......
04:56 PM pfred1: that looks pretty solid
04:56 PM _unreal_: its all I beams on the under side
04:56 PM _unreal_: I mean the entire under side
04:56 PM _unreal_: theres like 5 or 6
04:56 PM _unreal_: in the middle
04:57 PM pfred1: it still isn't webbed and aged cast iron
04:57 PM _unreal_: It was the base for a massive transformer in a super yacht
04:57 PM pfred1: but what is?
04:57 PM _unreal_: the thing is Flat as can be
04:58 PM pfred1: has it been blanchard ground?
04:58 PM _unreal_: no
04:58 PM pfred1: then it can likely be flatter
04:58 PM _unreal_: There could even been some indintations I dont know.
04:58 PM pfred1: I'm sure it is flat enough
04:58 PM pfred1: I use a scrap piece of particle board as my table
04:59 PM pfred1: it seems to be flat enough
04:59 PM _unreal_: I'm building a massivly over built stupid strong CNC
04:59 PM _unreal_: because of this base. I may as well
04:59 PM pfred1: a This Old Tony CNC machine?
04:59 PM _unreal_: ?
04:59 PM pfred1: YouTube channel
05:00 PM _unreal_: dont know
05:00 PM pfred1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZJCxMN9NWk
05:00 PM _unreal_: if you where building this to be stupid strong moving gantry. What would you use for rails and gauge.
05:05 PM pfred1: Tony has some nice toys
05:06 PM _unreal_: hum
05:12 PM jthornton: _unreal_: I'd build it like this http://gnipsel.com/shop/gantry/gantry.xhtml
05:12 PM jthornton: oh wait I did build that
05:13 PM gloops: '
05:18 PM gloops: _unreal_ what type of machine? router?
05:18 PM _unreal_: ya
05:19 PM gloops: hmm, i reckon that base will be good, may need a bit of shimming or grinding to get the rails flat
05:19 PM gloops: probably fit a spoil board that can be skimmed off flat
05:31 PM Tom_L: ok, i got the mill trammed again after adding the risers to Z
05:38 PM _unreal_: gloops, I'm going to make one thats VERY heavy duty
05:40 PM pfred1: I made one pretty lightweight
05:40 PM pfred1: now i have to get my CAM software setup, again
05:41 PM gloops: well mine is pretty heavy duty, worth considering that strength isnt everything, accuracy and speed are also important
05:41 PM gloops: the heavy slab will be good for resonance reduction
05:42 PM Tom_L: picked up another 14 x 8 x 1.5" slab for mine the other day
05:46 PM Tom_L: shame on him for drilling & tapping right over the ballscrew
05:47 PM Tom_L: This Old Tony..
05:47 PM gloops: to use for the machine Tom_L? or to make something with
05:47 PM pfred1: he can afford to buy a new one
05:47 PM Tom_L: gloops, sacrificial plate
05:47 PM gloops: ahh right
05:47 PM Tom_L: i wanted a bit bigger one
05:49 PM pfred1: don't we all?
05:54 PM Tom_L: gloops, how's your router workin for ya now?
05:56 PM gloops: its fine, i did some ally cutting last week, just trials, was fine with .2mm cut, mrs is off work atm so wont be starting much with it for a week or two, also just got a new PC for drawing today, so switching stuff over to that
05:56 PM Tom_L: nice
05:57 PM gloops: it is going into production soon lol, ive been saying that for months but been one thing after another
06:04 PM _unreal_: I dont know if this link will work https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMhAWi39Qspfvl2aO42RR32YSkTH8SkDVQKUnek
06:05 PM _unreal_: Moving gantry
06:07 PM _unreal_: ?
06:07 PM _unreal_: work?
06:08 PM gloops: no
06:09 PM _unreal_: what is the error
06:09 PM gloops: i get 404
06:10 PM _unreal_: ok
06:11 PM _unreal_: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO3nGHag8ELYJ55Z0LCBpYJsggvayqEC_D7fRpKxO8z6HE81h-jcGWWevfc2qh8rg?key=eDgzcXhFLVR1czMzbmtfaDVOMElyc3FydTA1SWpR
06:11 PM _unreal_: how about that?
06:11 PM Tom_L: yup
06:12 PM gloops: yeah can see that - wouldnt reccomend those type of linear ways though
06:12 PM _unreal_: My daughte helping when I built it...... I think she was 4 https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNzdfZNUarNgku_9bozAcdvZN0wvjyQRZLe3QVgZ6o3ATFXlSMEVEw3oZLiKUmhFw?key=eWV5Um1XOFdURFdjcVNzZjBvY3lwUVI0ZGdQbWFn
06:14 PM _unreal_: The hell I went through to align the Z was murder https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPGHpfeDoaNFsEoAMyDw96AiA58gZhN0otTf5pU63kpkjYkxw5zhYHYoF2W9f_NUw/photo/AF1QipOANjs0T8Y0lo10Po4GloCYXN0ZtM2VMAe4YyVZ?key=M3NoZHcwdFFHcG44bVIzR2c1M2ZEa2NCWUZpdEpR
06:14 PM gloops: heh, i dont know how you managed to get a daughter interested, none of mine were
06:14 PM _unreal_: she was 4
06:15 PM _unreal_: It has a lot more flex then I'd like it to have
06:16 PM _unreal_: in the Z
06:16 PM gloops: whats the gantry made of?
06:16 PM _unreal_: But that has to do with out I build the Z rails. I was dirt train broke at the time. Xwife etc....
06:16 PM _unreal_: the entire machine is made of G10 firberglass
06:16 PM _unreal_: I was working for Hinckleys. very well known yacht manufacture
06:16 PM gloops: hmm, fairly rigid at that thickness
06:16 PM _unreal_: been around for 100 years
06:17 PM _unreal_: everything is rigid till you get to Z
06:17 PM gloops: a lot of that might be the x rails lifting
06:17 PM _unreal_: the little platform has about +/- 2mills defelection at about 5 lbs of force. just guessing
06:18 PM _unreal_: no
06:18 PM _unreal_: its the Top of the Z the stepped attachments
06:19 PM _unreal_: I wanted to just use rails. pillow blocks but when I built the machine they were WAY expensive
06:19 PM _unreal_: 1' was like $100
06:20 PM _unreal_: all the rails flex a little
06:20 PM _unreal_: if I ever get it finished. it will be a great little engraver
06:20 PM gloops: i forget how much i paid now, for sbr16 rails + ballscrews @1350mm - about £200
06:21 PM _unreal_: I was building this when my Xwife decided she wanted a divorce out of the blue.....
06:22 PM gloops: should have told her to wait a couple of years
06:22 PM _unreal_: Thats an other topic regardless
06:22 PM gloops: i made my first one with skate bearings and chain, it was a good learning exercise - in how not to build a router
06:23 PM _unreal_: So I'm trying to design a cnc controller that has an off line function control
06:23 PM gloops: still pretty amazing to see the thing cut knowing it was just a pile of scrap metal and bicycle parts
06:23 PM _unreal_: What I really want is a pulse generator that keeps track of the machines location and can take an mpg pendent input. for basic control
06:24 PM _unreal_: or boot up the computer for linuxcnc or mach3 leaning twards linuxcnc
06:24 PM _unreal_: thinking about using a UDOO board
06:24 PM _unreal_: $50 multi core nearly 2ghz cpu and 2gb ram
06:25 PM gloops: hmm, not sure about those, its all about the latency you know
06:26 PM _unreal_: I'm sorry tinker board
06:26 PM _unreal_: is the one
06:26 PM _unreal_: latency BS....... look at "turbocnc" ran on a 386 20mhz over parallel port just fine
06:27 PM _unreal_: its overhead. bloated overhead
06:27 PM _unreal_: Part of the reason why I keep an old ibm pentium 200 laptop :)
06:29 PM gloops: yes, very slowly
06:30 PM pfred1: my Z axis is skate bearings
06:30 PM gloops: another drawback - no parport on the laptop
06:31 PM gloops: why dont you part with $15 pfred1 and fit some proper rails
06:31 PM pfred1: because it works fine as it is
06:31 PM Tenacious-Techhu: What's the feature called when the end-effector follows constant velocity NURBS paths rather than curves approximated by chords?
06:31 PM pfred1: rails would not do anything for me
06:32 PM pfred1: OK rails would be extra work form e to install so they have that going for them
06:32 PM gloops: well tbh ive got bearings on my z, but theyre not ordinary bearings, theyre in rollon rails
06:35 PM gloops: https://www.rollon.com/GLOBAL/en/products/linear-line/1-compact-rail/
06:35 PM gloops: exactly those - £20 used
06:35 PM gloops: you can still do it cheap and get good results if you shop around
06:36 PM pfred1: it is the doing it part that I can't get around right now
06:36 PM pfred1: I did a lot to get my machine going
06:36 PM pfred1: now I am doing other things
06:36 PM gloops: i know how you feel
06:37 PM pfred1: someday I'll build another machine
06:37 PM pfred1: but it won't be today
06:38 PM gloops: i need 3 years rest before i attempt another gantry machine
06:38 PM pfred1: I built this PC because of polar patterns in FreeCAD
06:38 PM gloops: nightmare, ive never whittled away and filed and sweated over niggling bits and bobs so much in my life
06:38 PM pfred1: my old machine just took forever doing that
06:39 PM pfred1: I don't even have FreeCAD setup on this machine right now though
06:39 PM gloops: what are those - polar patterns?
06:39 PM pfred1: when you put a bunch of repeating junk around a circle like teeth on a gear
06:40 PM gloops: oh like circular array
06:40 PM pfred1: yes
06:40 PM pfred1: apparently the math doing that can be challenging
06:40 PM pfred1: because my old Core 2 really had a hard time of it
06:41 PM pfred1: so now i have a faster 4 core system
06:41 PM gloops: well, i was managing ok on a 32 bit up to now, i got a 64 bit today
06:41 PM pfred1: but screwing around with this PC has been time consuming
06:42 PM pfred1: I just put a SSD in it last week so I'm starting all over again with it
06:42 PM pfred1: when I put in a video card I had to start all over again with that
06:43 PM pfred1: if i have to install another OS I think I'm going to scream
06:44 PM pfred1: this one had better last me a good 5 years
06:46 PM pfred1: check out this custom front panel I made for it https://i.imgur.com/oePEWeH.jpg
06:46 PM pfred1: precision
06:47 PM pfred1: it's in there tighter than a duck's ass
06:47 PM gloops: lol
06:47 PM gloops: well, nice job
06:47 PM pfred1: ta
06:47 PM gloops: was this really an economical use of time though?
06:47 PM pfred1: not really but I didn't like what was available
06:48 PM pfred1: I had to do that offset because of the length of cable that I used
06:48 PM pfred1: if I centered them it wouldn't have reached
06:48 PM gloops: theres always some snag
06:48 PM gloops: time for bed here anyway
06:48 PM pfred1: I went with the 30cm as opposed to 50cm
06:49 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Has any progress been made on the NURBS blocks?
07:20 PM _unreal_: bed? must be in UK
07:20 PM _unreal_: I'm in florida
07:20 PM _unreal_: 8pm here
07:55 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Which 3D Printers and slicers have constant velocity NURBS path printing?
07:56 PM XXCoder: currently, none.
07:56 PM XXCoder: someones working on it but dunno if will ever finish
08:26 PM Tenacious-Techhu: XXCoder, based on what available information do you say that?
08:27 PM XXCoder: linuxcnc and its fork, machinekit is only open source controllers that can do this.
08:27 PM XXCoder: rest is closed source
08:28 PM XXCoder: 3d printers so far I know all use marlin and various other open source firmware
08:30 PM Tenacious-Techhu: XXCoder, first you said nothing could do it, now you're saying that linuxcnc and machinekit can; which is it?
08:30 PM XXCoder: linuxcnc and machinekit dont do 3d printers in most case
08:30 PM XXCoder: I think some people is working on adding some gcode op codes specific to 3d printing to those but not too sure.
08:31 PM Tenacious-Techhu: XXCoder, is there a list of 3D Printers that use machinekit?
08:32 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Also, can you point out specifically where in machinekit or linuxcnc constant velocity NURBS paths are supported?
08:37 PM XXCoder: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G5_2-G5_3-NURBS
08:37 PM XXCoder: pretty cool eh
08:38 PM XXCoder: wish more people worked on docs
08:43 PM Tenacious-Techhu: I thought g6.1 was for NURBS blocks.
08:44 PM XXCoder: apparently not. g6 is empty
08:45 PM XXCoder: reprap its "direcy stepper move"
08:57 PM Tenacious-Techhu: XXCoder, anything using opensbp?
08:57 PM XXCoder: openbsp not sure what that is
08:58 PM Tenacious-Techhu: ShopBot created an open-source alternative to gcode.
08:58 PM XXCoder: interesting
08:58 PM XXCoder: openbsp result all quake and game maps lol
08:59 PM pfred1: I still need to install Quake
08:59 PM XXCoder: ah no wonder I made a spelinag mistake lol
08:59 PM pfred1: I got my gzdoom running already though
09:00 PM pfred1: ./gzdoom +sv_cheats 1 -iwad DOOM2.WAD -file Annie-E1.zip
09:00 PM Tenacious-Techhu: XXCoder, you might be getting scroogled. http://www.shopbottools.com/ShopBotDocs/files/ComRef.pdf
09:01 PM XXCoder: already reading that pdf :)
09:01 PM enleth: XXCoder: actually I'm pretty sure you could run a 3D printer using linuxcnc spiced up with a little ladder logic and a CAM that maps extrusion speed (including negative) to "spindle" speed
09:02 PM XXCoder: enleth: reprap uses axis E for extruder
09:02 PM XXCoder: so dont really need that
09:02 PM XXCoder: all remains really, is temperate control and pid for bed and hotend
09:03 PM XXCoder: pink vamp once made her mill a 3d printer by simply stripping those gcodes out and manually controlling temperate
09:03 PM pfred1: linuxcnc can do a laser pwm right?
09:04 PM enleth: that's really a matter of design choice, a fake axis is perhaps a bit better if you have a really good, predictable extruder that can actually make use of precise filament feed control
09:05 PM enleth: anyway, if anyone wanted to, they can drive a 3D printer with linuxcnc right now
09:06 PM pfred1: there are linuxcnc robot welders right?
09:06 PM enleth: there just might be a couple non-obvious and creative solutions required for some small problems
09:06 PM pfred1: 3D printing can't be that much different from wire feed welding
09:07 PM enleth: pfred1: it kinda is in that you have some inertia in the extruder and actually want to back the filament off pretty often to reduce nozzle pressure
09:07 PM enleth: but that's handled at the CAM level
09:07 PM pfred1: hmm
09:08 PM XXCoder: yeah slicers configure how it retracts and pressure advance
09:09 PM enleth: and I guess having the extruder and heated bed temperature control built-in as G-codes would be convenient and nice
09:09 PM enleth: but it's hardly a blocker that they aren't
09:09 PM pfred1: I've thouht about it and about all I ever came up with for me using a 3D printer would be making custom connectors
09:09 PM XXCoder: theres also bed level gcode but yeah
09:09 PM pfred1: for what a 3D printer costs I could bu ya lot of connectors though
09:10 PM enleth: XXCoder: pretty sure that's also doable with ladder and some M-codes
09:11 PM enleth: pfred1: well, there are uses, *if* you can afford a printer that's decent enough to not crap out on you half the time, ruining your prints
09:11 PM enleth: it's an amazing tech, *when* it works
09:12 PM pfred1: yea hI see people using them
09:12 PM pfred1: some folks get great use but they're doing things I don't do
09:12 PM enleth: here at the hackerspace, everyone uses the laser cutter as long as they can redesign their 3D stuff into a bunch of interlocking flat parts
09:13 PM pfred1: is it a tube laser?
09:13 PM enleth: using a 3D printer is kind of a last resort when something really can't be done on the laser
09:13 PM enleth: 60W CO2 tube, yes
09:13 PM pfred1: how many hours does the tube run?
09:13 PM pfred1: like before you need a new one
09:14 PM enleth: no idea really, we've had to replace it two times in three years or so by now, but no one's keeping any usage stats really
09:14 PM pfred1: that's not bad at all if it is used a lot
09:14 PM Tenacious-Techhu: On the subject of Laser Cutting, is there any nice software for going from a mathematics equation to a NURBS path?
09:14 PM pfred1: I've heard some scary hours times with some laser tubes
09:14 PM pfred1: like 60 hours
09:15 PM enleth: that's either a dud tube, or improperly cooled
09:15 PM pfred1: some just get pushed hard
09:15 PM pfred1: that's like for 40W lasers
09:15 PM enleth: or improperly used, yes
09:16 PM enleth: the small chinese lasers come with an aquarium pump that you dunk in a water bucket, and that's most definitely inadequate
09:16 PM pfred1: bumping up the power yo uget more than just more power I guess
09:16 PM enleth: you need some sort of a radiator with active airflow
09:16 PM XXCoder: just grab car heater core and add a fan
09:16 PM enleth: that works
09:16 PM pfred1: you get some headroom where you're not pushing the equipment so hard
09:17 PM enleth: we're using an airport X-ray cooling subsystem because that's what we had and it's a little bit of an overkill, but works perfectly
09:17 PM enleth: should be good up to a 120W tube or so
09:17 PM pfred1: seems to be paying off
09:18 PM enleth: and the thing with using the laser is, by the time you're done cutting your fourth and final iteration of the parts you needed, the 3D printer will have just about finished fucking up your first print
09:18 PM enleth: that thing is *fast*
09:18 PM enleth: and very easy to use
09:18 PM pfred1: heh 3D printing is pretty slow
09:18 PM XXCoder: I do want a laser machine but eh
09:19 PM pfred1: I want a little 5W diode laser for my CNC
09:19 PM enleth: it takes about 15 minutes of training for a reasonable person to be able to use it safely and efficently
09:19 PM pfred1: I want to try doing photo resist with it
09:19 PM enleth: sure it is a slight fire risk, but that's why you don't leave it unattended and keep a fire extinguisher nearby
09:20 PM pfred1: could flood the cabinet with CO2
09:20 PM enleth: just get a manual CO2 extinguisher
09:21 PM enleth: which really is just a CO2 welding tank paintet red and fitted with a nozzle but no regulator
09:21 PM enleth: *painted
09:21 PM XXCoder: would be interesting if had stirling air liquidifer and still to seperate others out of co2
09:21 PM pfred1: yeah?
09:21 PM XXCoder: then use that to spray on laser focus so fire cant happen :P
09:21 PM XXCoder: though bit unsafe in enclosed spaces
09:22 PM pfred1: I'd love my own air liquifier tower
09:22 PM pfred1: I have just the place for it on the property
09:23 PM enleth: XXCoder: actually, you're supposed to hook up compressed air to most cutters, which is then expelled through the lens orifice, to keep smoke from clouding up the lens, and to blow out any fire in the stock
09:23 PM pfred1: yeah air is mostly nitrogen
09:23 PM XXCoder: that would work better actually
09:23 PM XXCoder: much more common
09:23 PM Tenacious-Techhu: XXCoder, linuxcnc may be using the wrong gcode value for NURBS: https://all3dp.com/g-code-tutorial-3d-printer-gcode-commands/
09:23 PM enleth: again, the cheap lasers come with those funny little air pumps that kinda work, but it works much better with actual shop air
09:24 PM pfred1: if it weren't for photosynthetic life there would be no free oxygen in the atmosphere
09:24 PM enleth: definitely a must for higher powers at low feed rates for thick material
09:24 PM pfred1: oxygen is air pollution!
09:24 PM XXCoder: Tenacious-Techhu: that site uses gray text gray background for code examples. I cannot read it
09:25 PM pfred1: just highlight it
09:25 PM pfred1: or override style
09:25 PM Tenacious-Techhu: XXCoder, just do a find for g06.1, and highlight the text block, please. ^_^;
09:25 PM enleth: anyway, if you're doing any sort of prototyping, I highly recommend getting a CO2 laser, even a cheap one has a lot of uses
09:26 PM enleth: I can't think of a better prototyping tool, to be honest
09:26 PM pfred1: I got a hack saw
09:26 PM XXCoder: hmm interesting
09:26 PM enleth: maybe a waterjet, but that's at least tenfold cost difference
09:26 PM XXCoder: other doc was updated at 2014 I think so it may be old
09:26 PM pfred1: I met a guy that had his own water jet he was the real nervous type
09:27 PM pfred1: he had like a million dollar loan out for it with the bank
09:28 PM pfred1: he said he could stack steel plates a foot tall and cut through them all at once though
09:28 PM enleth: you can get a working CO2 cutter for $1000, I think, one of those K40 clones - that's what we got, it's been refitted with that 60W tube by now, a 100W power supply (bought used locally) and that X-ray cooling system
09:28 PM XXCoder: ehh doesnt it gets conic cut secton
09:29 PM XXCoder: meaning lowest patts would have smaller outsde dimensions and larger inside dimensions>
09:29 PM pfred1: he was making decorative panels
09:29 PM Tenacious-Techhu: XXCoder, found another one: https://www.wittystore.com/g-code-commands
09:29 PM Tenacious-Techhu: That one specifically mentions 5.1 as not being NURBS, and 6.1 as being NURBS.
09:30 PM enleth: pfred1: you can get a very basic and very small waterjet for $50k or so, not sure what it can do but I've seen some for sale
09:30 PM Tenacious-Techhu: So it looks like you guys need to modernize your commands. ^_^:
09:30 PM XXCoder: or rather, update docs
09:30 PM XXCoder: gray on gray again.
09:30 PM pfred1: enleth this guy was cutting 4x8 sheets
09:31 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Actually, that might just be a cut and paste of the previous site... I hate it when the internet does that.
09:31 PM enleth: pfred1: sounds like he was on a fast track to pay off that loan then
09:31 PM pfred1: enleth the day I hung around him his work wasn't exactly flying out the door
09:32 PM pfred1: in fact I don't remember seeing him sell anything
09:32 PM pfred1: he wanted like $345 a panel
09:32 PM XXCoder: whats tols like?
09:33 PM pfred1: stuff was beautiful though like you sanded every edge
09:34 PM enleth: BTW, I'm planning to replicate one guy's attempt at making a waterjet cutter out of a pressure washer pump, his results were useful enough to warrant trying it
09:34 PM pfred1: I saw that video
09:34 PM enleth: but with a triplex pump, should be way nicer and more consistent
09:34 PM pfred1: he's citting on a lamp duffuser
09:35 PM pfred1: cutton on a lamp diffuser even
09:35 PM pfred1: it looks pretty sketchy
09:36 PM pfred1: I seen people hating on plasma cutters
09:36 PM enleth: not sure if we're talking the same video - I mean the guy who bought an actual waterjet nozzle and mixing chamber, hooked that up to a slightly modified pressure washer and stuck it to a Bridgeport mill for position control
09:37 PM pfred1: nah guy I saw was cutting manually like he was holding the work in his hands and passing it under the jet
09:37 PM enleth: might be someone else
09:37 PM enleth: that guy actually had some nice, consistent CNC-controlled cuts
09:37 PM pfred1: his jet could barely cut soft wood
09:38 PM enleth: 3mm aluminum, 1mm steel, didn't try anything thicker
09:38 PM pfred1: if i was there I'd have handed him an X-Acto saw
09:38 PM enleth: to be honest, if I can replicate the cuts he got in aluminum, I'd call it a success
09:39 PM enleth: if it handles 2mm steel too, a huge success
09:39 PM pfred1: I don't like aluminum
09:39 PM enleth: that means I could cut spring steel, there's a ton of uses for that
09:39 PM pfred1: you one of them knife makers?
09:40 PM enleth: no, thin spring steel for flexures
09:40 PM pfred1: I buy knives at yard sales for like 50 cents I just don't see the point in making knives
09:40 PM enleth: I don't either
09:40 PM pfred1: nice knives
09:41 PM enleth: waterjet is pretty much the only way to cut thin spring steel properly without overheating it and ruining the heat treatment
09:41 PM enleth: by "thin" i mean 0.6mm-2mm
09:41 PM pfred1: once i bought some cryo henckels knives for 50 cents each
09:42 PM pfred1: there's some really dumb people out there
09:43 PM Tenacious-Techhu: I wouldn't bother CNCing a knife. I might take a CNC machine to an already made knife, to give it some etching, but that's it.
09:43 PM pfred1: the last knife i bought was this ugly little pocket knife
09:43 PM pfred1: so I get it home and I'm trying to make out the name on it and i get bummed out because i never heard of it
09:43 PM pfred1: turns out it is this super rare and collectible knife
09:44 PM XXCoder: Tenacious-Techhu: unless its for fun. why not?
09:44 PM XXCoder: cnc knife then engrave super complex pattern all over it
09:44 PM Tenacious-Techhu: XXCoder, because you'd get a better knife just buying it off the shelf and then engraving a pattern into that.
09:45 PM XXCoder: yeah
09:45 PM pfred1: yeah knives are mass produced
09:45 PM Tenacious-Techhu: The only knife-like objects I would bother to CNC are fake cosplay weapons, if I were to even bother.
09:45 PM pfred1: they're not good candidates for on demand manufacturing
09:46 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Now, if you can give me a CNC machine that can take over for a blacksmith smashing his hammer on steel, then you could start making, say, katanas with a ridiculous number of folds.
09:46 PM _unreal_: I think I'm going to buy this https://www.amazon.com/Tinker-board-RK3288-1-8GHz-Mali-T764/dp/B06VSBVQWS/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1534732736&sr=8-3&keywords=tinker%2Bboard&dpID=51XkGSoKSyL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch&th=1
09:46 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Now that, that is worth something.
09:46 PM _unreal_: its pin compatable with the rpi
09:47 PM XXCoder: for linuxcnc?
09:47 PM Tom_L: that's what he's thinking
09:48 PM enleth: Tenacious-Techhu: hypothetically, a 6R robot operating a power hammer might be able to do that, but I don't think anyone's ever tried it
09:48 PM Tenacious-Techhu: enleth, yeah, I don't think so either. But would it be awesome? Hell yeah.
09:48 PM Tenacious-Techhu: In comparison, cutting a knife shape out of some sheet steel and sharpening it, well, meh.
09:49 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Imagine, for a moment; a katana blade with a million folds to it.
09:49 PM XXCoder: theres this japanese channel of guy making and sharping knives out of all kinds of materials
09:49 PM enleth: you'd need some really good image recognition and realtime result assessment to do what a human blacksmith does when planning the next blow
09:49 PM XXCoder: pasta knife was sharpest for while till fiberglass finally dethoned it
09:50 PM pfred1: can't we alloy steel better today than folding it?
09:50 PM enleth: definitely doable with today's technology, and definitely belongs in the loony bin of ideas
09:50 PM Tenacious-Techhu: XXCoder, the dehydrated jello knife did pretty well, too.
09:50 PM enleth: mind you, I'd be the first person to say it's cool if someone did it
09:50 PM XXCoder: yeah
09:51 PM pfred1: back in the day folding steel had certain advantages over other methods
09:51 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Anyone know where I can find the list of gcode commands slicer supports?
09:51 PM Tenacious-Techhu: pfred1, I think it was mostly about mixing and oxidizing the steel.
09:51 PM enleth: pfred1: forging a blade is also about getting slightly different properties of the steel in different parts of that blade
09:52 PM Tenacious-Techhu: The mixing we got better at; not sure about oxidizing.
09:52 PM pfred1: yes
09:52 PM enleth: you could probably emulate that with a good alloy steel and selective induction hardening
09:52 PM pfred1: I'm not sure if oxidizing is desirable with steel
09:52 PM enleth: as in, hardening the cutting edge but leaving the rest softer
09:52 PM pfred1: though that is how the Bessemer Process works
09:53 PM pfred1: they would shoot oxygen through a melt to burn out carbon
09:53 PM pfred1: you'd burn the steel to super heat it
09:54 PM enleth: oh, actually, robotic forging is a thing, but for much bigger parts
09:55 PM pfred1: robotoc everything is going to be a thing
09:55 PM enleth: like ship propeller shafts for tankers
09:55 PM pfred1: I saw them making a big ship propeller once
09:55 PM pfred1: right on the sidewalk in Hoboken
09:58 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Does Slic3r do non-polygonal obj files?
10:02 PM XXCoder: none of slicers use g2 g3
10:03 PM XXCoder: they all use coord sections so they all come poly
10:03 PM XXCoder: someone in reprap is working on true curve support but it may be while
10:10 PM Tenacious-Techhu: XXCoder, is there a chart with the slicers on it, and what gcode they currently support?
10:10 PM XXCoder: dont know if there is one
10:13 PM _unreal_: ordering this as well https://www.amazon.com/Eleduino-Raspberry-1024x600-Capacitive-Touchscreen/dp/B07G243CRR/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1534734532&sr=8-8&keywords=7%2Blcd%2Braspberry%2Bpi&th=1
10:13 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, do you not agree with that for linuxcnc?
10:13 PM _unreal_: quad core 1.8ghz 2gb ram?
10:14 PM XXCoder: thats pretty cool display
10:15 PM enleth: _unreal_: seeing how the rpi's SoC is an architectural disaster, I'd steer clear of it for any hardware control just out of principle
10:15 PM Tom_L: not many (none i know of) are using arm for linuxcnc
10:16 PM _unreal_: considering that board is 8X more powerful then the ARM I dont see it being an issue
10:16 PM _unreal_: could even run winblows on it
10:16 PM Tom_L: latency is the concern
10:16 PM _unreal_: but I dont think I want to use mach3
10:16 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, I'm using grbl arduino as the pulse generator
10:17 PM _unreal_: I'm not worried about latency
10:18 PM Tenacious-Techhu: In principle, ARM is a better choice than X86, but underlying software may be an issue.
10:19 PM Tenacious-Techhu: It doesn't matter how good the software is if the OS software isn't properly supported.
10:19 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Err, how good the hardware is, I mean.
10:21 PM _unreal_: Tenacious-Techhu, I agree fully. look at TURBOCNC that will run on a 386 driving a parallel port and still get 15khz step rates
10:23 PM _unreal_: Tenacious-Techhu, I'm looking at getting https://www.ebay.com/str/protoneer
10:25 PM _unreal_: the RPI pololu driver with the external driver board conversion adapters. to put on the tinkerboard because its compatable pin for pin. and the LCD touch monitor is as well
10:32 PM _unreal_: ?
10:34 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Sorry, did you have a question in there somewhere?
10:35 PM pfred1: pololu drivers aren't really drivers
10:35 PM pfred1: they're more chip carriers
10:37 PM pfred1: you want to optically isolate your control signals
10:38 PM _unreal_: pfred1, are you asking or stating?
10:39 PM pfred1: I am stating
10:39 PM pfred1: decent stepper drivers have optically isolated control lines
10:40 PM pfred1: otherwise noise swamps your control logic
10:40 PM _unreal_: not sure what motor drivers I'm going to get yet
10:40 PM pfred1: it took me a year to sort that out with my homemade drives
10:40 PM pfred1: I ended up coming to the same conclusion everyone else has
10:41 PM _unreal_: I have not picked out motors yet because I have to make some final choices on the build design, get estimates of the weight of the machine
10:41 PM _unreal_: Whats that. just build it?
10:41 PM _unreal_: :)
10:41 PM pfred1: no Ihad to optically isolate the control lines
10:41 PM pfred1: just building it doesn't work
10:42 PM pfred1: this is what an unisolated step square wave looks like http://i.imgur.com/JVyX6n5.jpg
10:42 PM pfred1: you can see the PWM chopping in the signal
10:43 PM pfred1: that's not good
10:43 PM _unreal_: What did you use for a pulse generator and motor drivers?
10:43 PM pfred1: I was using a 555 timer at that point
10:44 PM pfred1: that drive was a SLA7026
10:44 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Oh jeez, don't use 555 timers.
10:44 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Ever.
10:44 PM pfred1: or was it a 7024?
10:44 PM pfred1: why not?
10:45 PM Tenacious-Techhu: There are a number of more modern ICs that do that job much better.
10:45 PM pfred1: 555 timers can make square waves
10:45 PM pfred1: nothing works better than a 555 timer
10:45 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Yes, and there are better chips for that.
10:45 PM pfred1: it is the most produced IC in history
10:45 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Just about anything is better for that.
10:45 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Yes, and it has no value to a modern engineer.
10:45 PM _unreal_: sla7024 has its own bilt in chopper
10:45 PM Tenacious-Techhu: It's only value now is as a hobbyist toy circuit.
10:45 PM pfred1: yeah no shit
10:46 PM pfred1: that's what's fucking up the step signal
10:46 PM Tenacious-Techhu: If you want a circuit to do a job correctly, you do not use a 555 timer.
10:46 PM pfred1: Tenacious-Techhu you're dingly
10:46 PM pfred1: there is no chip made that would do any better
10:46 PM _unreal_: ya I have never had an issue like that
10:47 PM _unreal_: ?
10:47 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Dude, seriously.
10:47 PM _unreal_: pfred1, Do what exatly better?
10:47 PM pfred1: handle the EMI
10:47 PM Tenacious-Techhu: There are much more cost-effective chips that will do the same job much better than a 555 timer.
10:47 PM Tenacious-Techhu: 555 timers, while fun, are for noobs.
10:48 PM pfred1: al lI wanted was a frigging clock pulse
10:48 PM pfred1: but what chip works better?
10:50 PM _unreal_: why were you using the 555 or how did you use it?
10:50 PM _unreal_: damn thats a nice price https://www.amazon.com/Nema23-Stepper-FMD2740C-Breakut-Controller/dp/B07236CFKC/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1534735983&sr=8-8&keywords=cnc+controller
10:51 PM XXCoder: thats not bad
10:51 PM pfred1: I was just using it to generate step pulses testing my drivers out
10:51 PM XXCoder: even comes with remote
10:51 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Honestly, it depends on the application. If you specifically want a clock pulse, there are dedicated ICs for clock pulse generation. If you want PWM modulation, there are ICs specifically for that, too.
10:51 PM Tenacious-Techhu: While the 555 timer is a great general-purpose circuit you can always find a use for, much more specialized circuits are always the better choice.
10:52 PM barjac_ is now known as Guest28814
10:52 PM pfred1: Tenacious-Techhu then name one
10:52 PM Tenacious-Techhu: As such, 555 timers are the "Arduino" of timing circuits; sure, they're good for prototyping, but when you want something to do a job, you use something meant to do that job.
10:52 PM Tenacious-Techhu: pfred1, name a specific use case. The more specific the better.
10:52 PM _unreal_: even better price https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-products-4-axis-CNC-kit-Nema-23-Stepper-Motor-Dual-Shaft-425oz-in-112mm-3A/1138965261.html
10:53 PM pfred1: generating a step pulse testing stepper motor drives
10:53 PM Tenacious-Techhu: So you want a square wave stepper motor driver?
10:53 PM pfred1: no just the pulses to make it run
10:54 PM Tenacious-Techhu: By the time you want the pulses, you already need the driver. And any good stepper motor driver is going to generate those pulses already.
10:54 PM _unreal_: so you where just trying to spin the motors. heh...
10:54 PM Tenacious-Techhu: You are overcomplicating the problem by insisting on separate components.
10:54 PM pfred1: _unreal_ yes
10:55 PM pfred1: Tenacious-Techhu that's how they come
10:55 PM Tenacious-Techhu: The industry is all about "everything included", these days.
10:55 PM pfred1: well I did all of this about 10 years ago now
10:55 PM pfred1: it was a different world then
10:55 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Maybe a little, but not that much.
10:55 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Then again, maybe the price points were different then.
10:55 PM pfred1: quite a bit the way you make things sound
10:55 PM Tenacious-Techhu: So even if it was on the market, you might not have considered it affordable.
10:56 PM pfred1: yeah my drives cost me about $10 a piece ot make back then
10:56 PM Tenacious-Techhu: You could probably buy the whole damn thing from Sparkfun today for that price.
10:57 PM pfred1: I knew I should have worked o na time machine
10:57 PM XXCoder: heh indeed
10:57 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Anyway, at least, as of today, there's no reason to use a 555 timer, unless you just happen to have one on hand, and you're just prototyping.
10:57 PM XXCoder: I bought some cnc parts starting in 2014 that ended up being useless
10:57 PM Tenacious-Techhu: I can't even really recommend buying some.
10:57 PM pfred1: I have about 50 555 timers
10:58 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Wow; that's at least 45 too many.
10:58 PM XXCoder: pfred1: got a project idea for you, make a giant 555 timer chip[
10:58 PM pfred1: I think when I ordered 50 they actually sent me 54
10:58 PM XXCoder: like evilmadscientist did lol
10:58 PM pfred1: XXCoder I've seen it the actual chip itself is cooler
10:58 PM pfred1: you can do things on dies that yo ucan't do with discrete components
10:59 PM XXCoder: LOL definitely not one I meant but... cool https://boingboing.net/2017/07/03/this-guy-built-a-storage-ottom.html
10:59 PM pfred1: my next project is going to be some SMPS experimentation
11:00 PM _unreal_: I may just break down and buy that
11:00 PM _unreal_: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-products-4-axis-CNC-kit-Nema-23-Stepper-Motor-Dual-Shaft-425oz-in-112mm-3A/1138965261.html
11:00 PM pfred1: I have some TL494s i want to experiment with
11:00 PM _unreal_: pfred1, are you still using the 555 timmer?
11:00 PM pfred1: sometimes
11:00 PM _unreal_: palm to face..... do you have an arduino
11:01 PM pfred1: I have a few
11:01 PM _unreal_: ok. why not just use the arduino to output a step pulse train that is adjustable with a POT. and you can change DIR as well.
11:01 PM pfred1: it is easier to whip up a 555 timer circuit than program an arduino though
11:01 PM _unreal_: and control ether phase OR step/dir
11:01 PM _unreal_: not much coding to do that
11:02 PM pfred1: changing dir is not important testing a drive
11:02 PM _unreal_: the code is already there
11:02 PM Tenacious-Techhu: pfred1: https://www.electronicdesign.com/analog/what-s-all-555-timer-stuff-anyway+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
11:02 PM pfred1: by the time i got to dir changing I just hooked it up to LinuxCNC
11:03 PM pfred1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgbeyNNBZ68
11:05 PM pfred1: here's a 555 timer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU2GaSMPxNI
11:08 PM _unreal_: do you guys things this is a good deal? $$$ https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-products-4-axis-CNC-kit-Nema-23-Stepper-Motor-Dual-Shaft-425oz-in-112mm-3A/1138965261.html
11:08 PM pfred1: _unreal_ what voltage are those motors rated?
11:09 PM pfred1: how many amps?
11:09 PM pfred1: microhenries?
11:09 PM pfred1: volts and amps will give the torque curve profile though
11:09 PM Tenacious-Techhu: pfred1, did you read that article yet?
11:10 PM pfred1: don't get hung up on holding torque
11:10 PM pfred1: it is how the motor moves that matters
11:11 PM _unreal_: i'm not to sure there isnt much for details
11:11 PM pfred1: chinese stepper motors are crap
11:11 PM pfred1: it'd probably be OK for magnet fishing though
11:13 PM pfred1: and ths shipping on them makes them less than a great deal
11:14 PM pfred1: ain't nobody shipping stepper motors for free
11:15 PM pfred1: last time i looked I found some nice used motors in florida
11:15 PM _unreal_: I dont see the shipping price listed
11:15 PM _unreal_: found in florida?
11:15 PM pfred1: whenever i look at nema 23 motors out of china they all seem to cost money to ship to me
11:16 PM pfred1: usually more in shipping than what the motors cost
11:16 PM pfred1: yeah person selling them was in florida
11:16 PM _unreal_: I dont see a shipping price
11:16 PM pfred1: they were pulls out of equipment
11:17 PM pfred1: does it say free shipping?
11:17 PM pfred1: chiese stepper motors generally don't perform so well
11:17 PM MarcelineVQ: .
11:17 PM MarcelineVQ: woops :>
11:17 PM pfred1: having your period?
11:18 PM MarcelineVQ: trying out my registered user state
11:18 PM _unreal_: 23HS2430B
11:18 PM _unreal_: Thats the motor
11:18 PM pfred1: good stepper motors are high precision
11:18 PM _unreal_: I see one issue. those motors are rated for 3amps max. and the motor controllers are micro stepping so you can pull 6 amps per motor, and 4 motors
11:19 PM pfred1: 3 amps a phase?
11:19 PM _unreal_: though thats assuming they are set to FULL current driving of 3 amps. so
11:19 PM _unreal_: yes
11:19 PM _unreal_: the power supply is 36v 9amps
11:19 PM _unreal_: lol
11:19 PM pfred1: yeah the faster you run steppers the less current they tend to draw
11:20 PM pfred1: that's due to inductive reluctance
11:20 PM pfred1: so don't expect to be pulling 3 amps with them running
11:21 PM Tenacious-Techhu: pfred1, did you read that article?
11:21 PM pfred1: what article?
11:22 PM Tenacious-Techhu: https://www.electronicdesign.com/analog/what-s-all-555-timer-stuff-anyway+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
11:22 PM pfred1: We couldn't find the page you were looking for.
11:22 PM Tenacious-Techhu: One sec, I'll dig up the cached version...
11:23 PM MarcelineVQ: current limit your drivers if you're worried about it, drivers tend to fail before motors though, motors get hot first.
11:23 PM pfred1: MarcelineVQ if your motors are getting really hot you're pushing too much current throug hthem anyways
11:23 PM pfred1: more current won't make a stepper motor run better
11:23 PM MarcelineVQ: yes, or they're being driven in a dumb way
11:23 PM pfred1: they tend to cog then
11:24 PM pfred1: stepper motors are logically backwards to how one would think a motor works
11:24 PM pfred1: which is why people with money run servos
11:25 PM Tenacious-Techhu: O.K., this link should be fresh... https://www.electronicdesign.com/analog/what-s-all-555-timer-stuff-anyway
11:25 PM MarcelineVQ: servos getting cheaper every day :>
11:25 PM pfred1: Tenacious-Techhu I've seen videos of people putting that kit together
11:25 PM Tenacious-Techhu: The article isn't about the kit.
11:25 PM Tenacious-Techhu: That's just eye candy.
11:25 PM _unreal_: closesed I can find to a manual
11:25 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Read the article.
11:25 PM _unreal_: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ACT-Motor-1PC-Nema23-Stepper-Motor-23HS2430B-Dual-Shaft-4-Lead-425oz-in-112mm-3-0A/32610876969.html
11:26 PM pfred1: Tenacious-Techhu you think stepping a stepper motor is a high precision task?
11:26 PM Tenacious-Techhu: When done right, YES.
11:26 PM pfred1: there are drives with like 40% variance between steps
11:27 PM pfred1: yeah to just get the motors to spin it isn't that critical
11:27 PM Tenacious-Techhu: So your goal is to only do slightly better than cheap Chinese crap?
11:27 PM pfred1: my goal was just to make sure the drives could run at speed
11:28 PM Tenacious-Techhu: The goal isn't to have the motor spin; the goal is to have the motor stop at the right place, and not overshoot.
11:28 PM pfred1: you'd be surprised how tricky that is to do
11:28 PM pfred1: not when I'm testing my drives out it isn't
11:28 PM Tenacious-Techhu: Regardless, the article is pretty damn clear that no modern circuit should be designed with a 555 timer.
11:29 PM pfred1: why not?
11:29 PM _unreal_: Tenacious-Techhu, What do you think of those motors and the motor driver kit I posted?
11:29 PM pfred1: chinesem otors ain't worth what it costs to ship them
11:30 PM Tenacious-Techhu: _unreal_, I never buy parts from alibaba or aliexpress on principle. If I wanted something like that, I'd buy from Sparkfun or Pololu, or some other company I recognize.
11:30 PM pfred1: I buy from ali all the time
11:30 PM Tenacious-Techhu: When buying from China, there's no telling what knock-off IC is being used.
11:30 PM MarcelineVQ: 'some other company, that orders from alibab or aliexpress'
11:30 PM Tenacious-Techhu: And they rarely, if ever, supply sufficient datasheets for the part.,
11:31 PM pfred1: the v 1.2 TB6600 drives coming out of China are OK
11:31 PM pfred1: they'r what i use now they're a bit better than my old homemde drives
11:31 PM pfred1: can't beat the price either
11:33 PM pfred1: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW-TB6600-4-5A-CNC-Single-Axis-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Board-Controller/32662404083.html
11:34 PM pfred1: those are legit
11:38 PM pfred1: _unreal_ the shipping shows up for me
11:38 PM pfred1: Total Price:
11:38 PM pfred1: US $94.37
11:39 PM pfred1: the electrical spec looks good on those motors but I wonder if they have the stator in there right
11:40 PM pfred1: chinese motors usually aren't tight enough
11:40 PM _unreal_: So I ask one more time what are your thoughts on the spects provided by the last link I posted
11:40 PM _unreal_: of the motors?
11:40 PM _unreal_: I've got that link saved
11:40 PM _unreal_: same thing at amazon as well
11:40 PM pfred1: they're probably crap
11:41 PM _unreal_: exact same kit on amazon and it has good reviews
11:41 PM pfred1: there are teeth inside stepper motors
11:42 PM pfred1: they're no Vextas let's just put it that way
11:42 PM pfred1: the again one Vexta costs more than that whole kit does
11:43 PM _unreal_: So then its not bad for the price
11:43 PM pfred1: that could be
11:43 PM pfred1: they could well do the job
11:43 PM _unreal_: I'm already spending a small fortune on rails the computer stuff that I just linked
11:43 PM pfred1: gantry routers son't need more than 250 oz/in anyways
11:44 PM pfred1: unless it is huge
11:44 PM _unreal_: mine isnt going to be huge but heavy yes
11:44 PM pfred1: yeah then you need torque
11:44 PM pfred1: it is all about acceleration
11:44 PM _unreal_: I expect the moving gantry arch and Z to be around 50-90+ lbs
11:45 PM pfred1: the faster you can get going fast the faster you're running
11:45 PM _unreal_: depending on which direction I bridge over the main base
11:45 PM pfred1: you can only try
11:45 PM _unreal_: I'm leaning bridging over the longer side
11:46 PM pfred1: well this kit could get you going then down the road if you want more performance you can upgrade
11:46 PM _unreal_: which will mean a biefer axis
11:46 PM pfred1: it is damned cheap as a whole kit
11:46 PM _unreal_: If I go the wide way. I need 2 steppers to drive the axis
11:47 PM _unreal_: Idont feel like running a 34+" belt
11:47 PM _unreal_: for a single motor
11:48 PM _unreal_: not a fan of the risk's
11:48 PM pfred1: oh so this is only one motor and a drive
11:48 PM _unreal_: ok going to bed almost 1am and I got to get up by 6 :P
11:48 PM _unreal_: huh?
11:48 PM pfred1: ACT Motor 1PC Nema23 Stepper Motor 23HS2430B Dual Shaft 4-Lead 425oz-in 112mm 3.0A Bipolar+1PC Driver DM542 4.2A 50V 128Micro
11:48 PM _unreal_: https://www.amazon.com/Nema23-Stepper-FMD2740C-Breakut-Controller/dp/B07236CFKC/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1534735983&sr=8-8&keywords=cnc+controller
11:48 PM _unreal_: dude that is the ONLY link I found that had details on the motor
11:49 PM _unreal_: motors
11:49 PM pfred1: hmmm $340
11:49 PM _unreal_: free shipping
11:49 PM _unreal_: so its the same price as banggood
11:49 PM pfred1: you're paying for that shipping in the price
11:49 PM _unreal_: same diff
11:49 PM _unreal_: infact its cheaper by $10
11:50 PM pfred1: I just hope those motors are decent
11:50 PM _unreal_: I have not ordered anything yet
11:50 PM pfred1: until you run them there's no way of knowing it's not like they're giving yo ua torque curve
11:50 PM _unreal_: went into my watch list.
11:50 PM pfred1: holding torque is meaningless
11:50 PM _unreal_: considering the size of the machine I'm building
11:51 PM _unreal_: I dont think they will much matter
11:51 PM _unreal_: will only matter when testing a full load. I.E. cutting metal
11:51 PM pfred1: 425 oz/in motor should be plenty powerful
11:51 PM _unreal_: I have all the stuff to GEAR them down with pullys as well
11:51 PM _unreal_: cogs
11:51 PM pfred1: that's not really when yo uneed power
11:52 PM _unreal_: ?
11:52 PM pfred1: it is during rapid moves
11:52 PM _unreal_: oh ya cutting metal
11:52 PM pfred1: cutting isn't really a big deal for the axis
11:52 PM _unreal_: if I get the offline controller setup working its not going to go fast anyways
11:53 PM _unreal_: the only time rapids will be used is prob machine code
11:53 PM _unreal_: ok i'm out