Aug 10 2018
12:10 AM roycroft: i've been watching joe pieczynski videos lately
12:14 AM roycroft: he doesn't suck as a machinist
12:18 AM fragalot: roycroft: he's got some good tricks up his sleeve
01:06 AM roycroft: maybe by the time i'm 100 i'll be as good a machinist as he is
02:01 AM Deejay: moin
04:05 AM erasmus is now known as Guest10960
04:44 AM jthornton: morning
04:51 AM XXCoder: yo
04:52 AM jthornton: how did it go last night
04:52 AM XXCoder: hot.
04:53 AM XXCoder: I finally did full 10 hours of work though. I was pretty badly underperforming this week
04:57 AM jthornton: not feeling well?
04:58 AM XXCoder: kinda, heat affects me poretty badly lol
04:58 AM XXCoder: plus one nasty job I have been running all week.
04:58 AM XXCoder: inocel part engraving. it kills tools so fast.
04:58 AM XXCoder: 900+ parts
05:03 AM jthornton: engraving with a 60° bit?
05:07 AM electro is now known as Guest30213
05:07 AM XXCoder: lol no
05:07 AM XXCoder: 1/16 ball endmill
05:08 AM jthornton: do ball endmills wear out faster than normal endmills?
05:09 AM XXCoder: no way to compare, inocel is tool killer
05:09 AM XXCoder: I can do 1,000 parts thats on steel
05:09 AM XXCoder: inocel? 30 to 50
05:09 AM jthornton: wow that's a huge difference
05:10 AM XXCoder: yeah
05:10 AM XXCoder: you ever machined that metal? I know im mispelling it
05:10 AM XXCoder: inconel
05:10 AM jthornton: no, seems to me we had drill collars made from that in the oil field
05:11 AM XXCoder: its virtually immune to corrusion, very very high temperate range it can be in
05:11 AM XXCoder: parts im engraving I think would ve placed inside jet engine
05:11 AM XXCoder: lots corrosive chemicals as well as very hot
05:12 AM jthornton: is it heaver than steel?
05:12 AM XXCoder: yeah
05:14 AM XXCoder: its nickel based
05:14 AM XXCoder: so yeah tough mofo metal
05:14 AM XXCoder: I was pissed when they out-processed the part
05:14 AM XXCoder: otusiders dont know how damn sensive to thickness engraving is, as well as parallelism and smoothness of surface
05:15 AM XXCoder: because that metal is so hard
05:15 AM jthornton: that must be why they use it for drill collars a drill collar is a much heavier section of pipe with very thick walls that is placed at the bottom of the drill string
05:15 AM XXCoder: I sort parts to .0005" lots
05:15 AM XXCoder: you cant engrave 0 parts with -.0005 it could look bad or break tool
05:18 AM XXCoder: yeah wouldnt be surpised
05:19 AM XXCoder: I think inconel is one of toughest metals out there
05:19 AM XXCoder: in terms of balance of toighness and brittleness
05:36 AM XXCoder: jthornton: other one I was running was also inconel lol
05:36 AM XXCoder: its to turn ring into half ring. with tol of .002"
05:37 AM XXCoder: I ran 40 parts and it killed 1/2 cobolt endmill
05:37 AM XXCoder: I think its cobolt anyway, not usual color
05:37 AM XXCoder: kinda bluish
05:44 AM jthornton: you guys don't use carbide endmills?
05:45 AM XXCoder: we do
05:45 AM XXCoder: most times. the ring cutting is very rough on tools
05:45 AM XXCoder: so we rough with cobolt then regular carbide for finish
05:45 AM XXCoder: if I recall right cobolt costs a lot more and are much tougher
05:46 AM jthornton: hmm didn't know that
05:47 AM XXCoder: http://www.endmill.com/pages/training/material.html
05:47 AM SpeedEvil: Cobalt is tougher than normal HSS, but may deal with interrupted cuts better than carbide AIUI
05:47 AM XXCoder: most jobs its not worth it, but some jobs is just nasty to tools
05:47 AM XXCoder: I just wish there was cobolt 1/16 ball endmills
05:48 AM SpeedEvil: I'm sure there are. On the expensive shelf.
05:48 AM XXCoder: very expensive shelf
05:48 AM SpeedEvil: Or 'yes, we will grind that for you'.
05:48 AM XXCoder: one right at eyesight level
05:49 AM XXCoder: yeah not worth it I think. maybe it could do 100 to 200 parts wild guess, but cost more than it saves
05:50 AM jthornton: I used to sharpen nail point cutters and they were made of M42 IIRC
05:52 AM XXCoder: heh the engraving job used to be ok job, old fadal was slow
05:52 AM XXCoder: so i had plenty of time to sort part by sizes
05:53 AM XXCoder: but robo is so fast I barely have time
05:54 AM jthornton: you have to sort them by depth of cut?
05:54 AM XXCoder: part height
05:54 AM jthornton: ah that makes sense
05:54 AM XXCoder: metal is so hard it could break tool if too large difference
05:54 AM XXCoder: as well as it needs to be look good
05:55 AM XXCoder: engraving depth is around .002" to .003"
05:55 AM XXCoder: sometimes under and rerun, and sometimes over. not scrap but not recommanded
05:55 AM jthornton: chickens are standing at the door waiting for it to open
05:56 AM jthornton: engraving a part number?
05:56 AM XXCoder: yeah
05:58 AM jthornton: too bad it doesn't have a laser height measuring tool to set Z0
05:58 AM XXCoder: or just probing
05:58 AM XXCoder: that'd make job go much faster
05:58 AM XXCoder: probably 30 tool swaps lol
05:59 AM XXCoder: and very sore arm
05:59 AM XXCoder: my current record is 750 parts in 10 hours
05:59 AM Laminae_: O.o
05:59 AM XXCoder: that was mere steel version of part.
05:59 AM XXCoder: carbide ball endmill last long time
06:00 AM XXCoder: and parts is nearly all alike so no sorting
06:01 AM Laminae_: I'm surprised there aren't more open source tool changers
06:01 AM XXCoder: no idea
06:01 AM Laminae_: jthornton: thanks for your help setup the other day
06:02 AM XXCoder: all ones at work is commerical, and my home one is single tool, no changer
06:02 AM Laminae_: I like the kern a lot because it is so simple
06:03 AM Laminae_: When the only tool you have is a...
06:04 AM jthornton: your welcome
06:05 AM Laminae_: Side note, now that i've successfully converted to linux cnc, i'm considering upgrading some components on my machine, specifically my actuators, the cbeam came with leadscrews which i'm not entirely happy with, and i think i could latterally swap them for ballscrews
06:06 AM Laminae_: I was kinda thinking these bad boys, any thoughts? https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-1000mm-Electric-Ball-Screw-Linear-Slide-Stroke-Actuator-Stepper-Motor-New/273333309424?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144
06:06 AM XXCoder: built-in module eh
06:06 AM Laminae_: That's my current frame https://imgur.com/a/XkGOJhk
06:07 AM XXCoder: love how they have all same picture but different sizes
06:07 AM Laminae_: Yeah, it's surprisingly difficult to fint assemblies like that
06:07 AM Laminae_: find*
06:11 AM fragalot: hey
06:13 AM XXCoder: yo
06:17 AM Laminae_: Any other recommendations xcoder?
06:18 AM XXCoder: not really
06:18 AM XXCoder: too tired to think
06:18 AM XXCoder: work have been a hot hell whole week
06:18 AM XXCoder: normally I could sit but this week I couldnt either
06:19 AM fragalot: hemorhoids? :P
06:20 AM XXCoder: nah arthitis
06:26 AM XXCoder: fragalot: I was so busy I couldnt sit
06:26 AM XXCoder: normally I run a machine I can sit few minutes while its running
06:46 AM fragalot: XXCoder: look at how well the chipbreaker works on this thing. it's impressive... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DoMhEfcZ3M
06:50 AM jthornton: lol debian 9 doesn't even have make or gcc installed
06:50 AM fragalot: why would it?
06:50 AM fragalot: it's just bloatware for the average user
06:51 AM jthornton: why not every other disto does
08:21 AM hazzy-lab: jthornton: I assume you are using 2.8 (Vietnamese trans is not in 2.7). How did you install LCNC (buildbot?), and how do you launch the quick reference?
08:24 AM hazzy-lab: if have a rip install maybe rerun `make install-menus` ...
08:28 AM hazzy-lab: jthornton: assuming you use the app menu launcher for the Quick reference:
08:28 AM hazzy-lab: Open: /usr/share/applications/linuxcnc-gcoderef.desktop
08:29 AM hazzy-lab: and make sure the command line is: Exec=/usr/bin/x-www-browser /usr/share/doc/linuxcnc/gcode.html
08:29 AM hazzy-lab: (I assume it is /usr/bin/x-www-browser /usr/share/doc/linuxcnc/gcode_vi.html ....)
08:31 AM jthornton: hazzy-dev: yes 2.8
08:32 AM * jthornton was only whining because debian does such a great job at making everything you try to do the most annoying frustrating difficult experience you can have
08:35 AM robotustra: I have an little bit offtopic question about debian/testing. When I plug a vebcam I see 2 devices /dev/video0 and /dev/video1. I can open and read only one device. What is the second device for? Is it a bug or feature?
08:36 AM skunkworks: hazzy-lab: I can jog the motor with servoterm. It is a little squirley..
08:36 AM robotustra: Does anybody face with the same situation?
08:48 AM hazzy-dev: skunkworks: closed loop? Nice!
10:57 AM hazzy-m: Anybody have any clue what this may mean?
10:57 AM * hazzy-m uploaded an image: 20180809_231707.jpg (314KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/FGTaQKoCCYUACWZIwgJYVHfA >
11:00 AM cradek: Hardware event. This is not a software error.
11:00 AM cradek: CPU 0 BANK 0 TSC 1e79c70010
11:00 AM cradek: CPUID Vendor Intel Family 6 Model 42
11:01 AM cradek: I did what it said and it told me a little more
11:01 AM cradek: your bardware is hroken
11:01 AM hazzy-lab: thank you cradek
11:02 AM Loetmichel: hazzy-lab: always the same core?
11:02 AM Loetmichel: or everytime a different one?
11:02 AM hazzy-lab: not sure, only had the error show up once, but the PC crashes routinely, most of the time starts up without error
11:03 AM Loetmichel: It LOOKS like a bad core
11:03 AM Loetmichel: could also be some faulty CPU socket though
11:03 AM hazzy-lab: ok, I hope it is the socket ...
11:04 AM hazzy-lab: this is basically a brand new machine
11:04 AM hazzy-lab: maybe the socked was not clean
11:04 AM Loetmichel: i dont think intel does still sell faulty CPUs with some cores disabled relabeled as "smaller" ones
11:05 AM hazzy-lab: thanks for the hints all, I'll pull the CPU and see how it looks
11:05 AM hazzy-lab: Loetmichel: You mean the have gotten more honest??
11:05 AM hazzy-lab: :)
11:05 AM fragalot: 'sup
11:05 AM Loetmichel: hazzy-dev: no, the process is better, less faulty cores ;)
11:06 AM Loetmichel: doesent add any marging to sell partially defective if there are only few
11:07 AM hazzy-lab: Loetmichel: ah, that makes sense, no point in wasting parts if you can still uses the with fewer cores
11:08 AM Loetmichel: in the beginning of multicore CPUs one of the vendors did. either Intel or AMD
11:08 AM Loetmichel: they sold quadcore as dualcore with 2 cores disabled, when one or two of the cores were defective
11:09 AM Loetmichel: but that only makes sense if you have enough faulty chips to warrant a "product line" for them, with all the work attached
11:09 AM Loetmichel: if you only have very few bad chips its cheaper to just toss them
11:10 AM Loetmichel: but what i meant is that back in the days some "ingenious" people bought those CPUs and reenabled the cores and sold them as the expensive full working variant.
11:10 AM tjtr33: skunkworks, hello. fwiw gcode slicing can be done on linux with: gcode to camotics to stl to slic3r to gcode. This worked with 3D_chips.ngc.
11:10 AM Loetmichel: with the expected results of some of them not working correctly
11:11 AM Loetmichel: either instantly or when heated up
01:14 PM * jthornton just spent 1/2 hour at the social security office signing up to get an appointment next month to sign up for medicare
01:15 PM robotustra: jthornton, what country?
01:23 PM Rab: Sounds like USA!
01:33 PM robotustra: in canada you shouldn't go anywhere to sign up for medicare
02:14 PM jthornton: USA
02:16 PM robotustra: such burocracy should be done automatically
02:17 PM robotustra: it's unacceptable in 21st century to spend the time for such bullshit
02:35 PM enleth: Loetmichel: I'm pretty sure they still use that approach for different base frequency models
02:36 PM enleth: Loetmichel: as in, they only produce one "i3", "i5" and "i7", then test them to see what frequency they can handle without glitches and within the TDP
02:38 PM Tom_L: jthornton, that bad ehh?
02:38 PM Tom_L: take notes, i may need em
02:39 PM JT-Shop: not bad at all and very informative
02:39 PM JT-Shop: how old are you?
02:40 PM Tom_L: 21900 days and change
02:40 PM Tom_L: at least til sunday
02:41 PM JT-Shop: you got a ways to go lol
02:41 PM Tom_L: yeah, my sis just signed up
02:41 PM JT-Shop: for medicare?
02:41 PM Tom_L: ss
02:41 PM Tom_L: i dunno what she did about medicare
02:42 PM JT-Shop: 3 months before your 65th birthday you need to sign up for medicare
02:42 PM Tom_L: i gotta wait until 67
02:43 PM Tom_L: i think you can get mc at 65 though right?
02:43 PM Tom_L: i haven't honestly checked on it. just from what i've been hearing
02:43 PM JT-Shop: mc?
02:43 PM Tom_L: medicare
02:44 PM JT-Shop: yes mc at 65 and full ss at 66 for me
02:44 PM Tom_L: same for her, i gotta wait another year
03:04 PM jdh: 67.5
03:04 PM jdh: lame
04:00 PM JT-Shop: dang youngsters lol
04:07 PM roycroft: i have a few years to go before i'm eligible for medicare
04:07 PM roycroft: i hope it's still around then
04:22 PM jthornton: I hope I'm still around then
04:24 PM roycroft: i'm too stubborn to not be :)
04:39 PM roycroft: i'm cheating a little bit today
04:39 PM roycroft: i'm not offically off work for another 20 minutes, but i've already forwarded mail for one of my accounts to vacation
04:40 PM roycroft: 'cuz i really don't want to deal with any last-minute emails to that account
05:00 PM roycroft: i'm on vacation officially!
05:01 PM Jin^eLD: hi, I am trying to run the example from http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gui/pyvcp.html which says:
05:01 PM Jin^eLD: halrun -I loadusr pyvcp -c mypanel tiny.xml
05:01 PM Jin^eLD: but that results in an error
05:01 PM Jin^eLD: halrun: too many arguments <loadusr pyvcp -c mypanel tiny.xml>
05:02 PM Jin^eLD: any ideas?
05:06 PM SpeedEvil: Somewhat tangentially - can anyone think of vendors for gold dots? I want to solder them on in place of light gold plating to make something actually work well for a long time, rather than a short time. Something like 100um thick 0.5-1mm dots.
05:28 PM hazzy-lab: Jin^eLD: I get have the same problem here ...
05:28 PM hazzy-lab: wonder if you found a bug
05:28 PM hazzy-lab: try first launching halcmd
05:29 PM hazzy-lab: and then running the pyvcp command
05:29 PM hazzy-lab: $ halrun
05:29 PM hazzy-lab: halcmd: loadusr pyvcp -c mypanel tiny.xml
05:30 PM hazzy-lab: that worked for me
05:30 PM hazzy-lab: aha!
05:31 PM hazzy-lab: it should be:
05:31 PM hazzy-lab: halcmd loadusr pyvcp -c mypanel tiny.xml
05:31 PM hazzy-lab: that works
05:31 PM hazzy-lab: I will fix the docs
05:31 PM Jin^eLD: it seems to work from inside halcmd
05:32 PM hazzy-lab: try $ halcmd loadusr pyvcp -c mypanel tiny.xml
05:32 PM hazzy-lab: that works
05:32 PM Jin^eLD: thank you :)
05:33 PM hazzy-lab: thank you for reporting the error in the docs :)
05:34 PM Jin^eLD: well, at that point I was assuming I messed up somewhere ;)
05:34 PM infornography: tfw you want to work on cnc stuff but you have to go work on life stuff...
05:34 PM Jin^eLD: I get the impression people prefer glade? or is pyvcp widely used?
05:39 PM hazzy-lab: Jin^eLD: Glade has its whole set of problems, I'd stick with pyvcp until something better comes along (thinking cmorley's QtVCP ...)
05:43 PM Jin^eLD: I think pyvcp is more than enough for my needs
05:43 PM Jin^eLD: I only need to simulate/test a HAL component so tht I dont destroy any hardware while developing it
06:06 PM Jin^eLD: night
06:07 PM Jin^eLD is now known as Jin|away
07:57 PM ziper: anyone built a filament winder
08:03 PM hazzy-lab: ziper: Like this?
08:03 PM hazzy-lab: https://www.flickr.com/photos/vukawena/41819488890/in/album-72157698999997294/
08:04 PM ziper: no, a single thread around a mandrel
08:04 PM ziper: unless I am misunderstanding what i am looking at
08:05 PM ziper: that looks like one of those old wicker chairs
08:05 PM ziper: or maybe they were fiberglass?
08:05 PM hazzy-lab: there are more pics, use the side to side buttons to scroll thru them
08:06 PM hazzy-lab: that is a filament winder was made at the linuxcnc stuttgart meet up a few weeks ago
08:06 PM hazzy-lab: you are thinking more of like a coil winder?
08:07 PM ziper: was the carbon tow strung up manually and then the two disks twisted?
08:10 PM ziper: like this, but long and skinny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPBmbkyi9Tw
08:10 PM ziper: one concern I have is that to get strength in the length direction you would need to traverse it back and forth pretty fast
08:10 PM hazzy-lab: ziper: that is a good question, I was not there, but assume it was all done with linuxcnc (be kinda disappointing it not :) )
08:10 PM ziper: and I guess just cut off the ends where it doubles back?
08:11 PM hazzy-lab: ah, I see, so like for laying up a tube or tank
08:12 PM hazzy-lab: I guess you would have to cut the ends ..
08:12 PM hazzy-lab: you know, I have never paid enough attention to how that is usually done
08:14 PM hazzy-lab: my water filter tank for example is laid up as one piece, wonder how they get the core/form out ..
08:15 PM ziper: seems well suited for a pressure vessel
08:15 PM ziper: maybe I should do the math and see if it is even actually any better than buying the cloth and laying it up by hand
08:18 PM hazzy-lab: depending on what you need, the winder could be pretty crude, probably don;t even need CNC, just have a switch at the end of travel that reversed the traverse direction
08:18 PM hazzy-lab: what are you making?
08:25 PM ziper: sailboat spars
08:26 PM ziper: a mast (6meters) as well as racks for sitting on (1 meter)
08:26 PM hazzy-lab: oh, sweet!
08:26 PM hazzy-lab: so you need good longitudinal strength ...
08:29 PM hazzy-lab: those are basically beams, so you really need the fibers running mostly length-wise, hmm
08:29 PM Tom_L: evening
08:30 PM hazzy-lab: Tom_L: evening
08:31 PM Tom_L: picked up a block of alum today to make my riser
08:31 PM Tom_L: 2.125 x 2.25 x longer
08:32 PM Tom_L: so i guess i'll raise it up 2.25"
08:33 PM Tom_L: only about 12 bux
08:33 PM hazzy-lab: 2.25" is a significant amount on that machine
08:33 PM Tom_L: yes
08:33 PM hazzy-lab: what is the total Z?
08:33 PM Tom_L: now?
08:33 PM hazzy-lab: yes
08:33 PM Tom_L: lemme see where i set the soft limits..
08:34 PM Tom_L: it's got quite a bit but i can't use it because it's all lower
08:34 PM hazzy-lab: ah, so now you will be able to make use of it better
08:34 PM hazzy-lab: great
08:35 PM Tom_L: 7"
08:35 PM Tom_L: but i can't use near that much with the vise
08:35 PM ziper: a spool of tow is a lot cheaper, only 1.5 dollars per ounce, instead of 4 for unidirectional and 7.5 for biax sleeve
08:35 PM hazzy-lab: ok, you can do a lot with that
08:35 PM Tom_L: yes
08:36 PM Tom_L: X is 17.75 Y is 13 and Z is 7
08:36 PM Tom_L: nice workspace for a small mill
08:36 PM hazzy-lab: indeed!
08:36 PM roycroft: that's a lot of y
08:36 PM Tom_L: yeah but it's not all useable because the table isn't that big
08:37 PM hazzy-lab: more than my full size bridge port on Y :)
08:37 PM Tom_L: but if i had a big part i could bolt it down and use it
08:37 PM Tom_L: the table's only something like 9" wide
08:37 PM roycroft: there's no law that says your part cannot overhang the table :)
08:37 PM Tom_L: i forget exactly
08:37 PM Tom_L: true
08:38 PM Tom_L: i may try some 2" square tube as a riser first and see how it acts
08:38 PM Tom_L: before i cut up the alum
08:38 PM Tom_L: they had a near perfect piece when i went by there today
08:39 PM Tom_L: just need to cut it in half and clean it up a bit
08:42 PM Tom_L: now i need to get another vise
08:42 PM Tom_L: could have used it on that last part i made
09:38 PM flyback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKG7jKjetfI
09:38 PM flyback: magnus effect owns your "canuck"
09:38 PM * flyback dropkicks Tom_L