#linuxcnc Logs

Jul 27 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:00 AM jesseg: but the lathe did feel low so I left it on 4 inch high (4x6) blocks
12:03 AM hazzy-lab: Yes, usually, but my shop is small so I keep mine on blocks so i can most if easily
12:03 AM hazzy-lab: Yea, reaching the drawbar is a problem, I am very short, lol
12:07 AM hazzy-lab: move it*
12:07 AM jesseg: oh were you the 120# guy we were talking about the other day? :D
12:07 AM hazzy-lab: haha, yeah!
12:07 AM jesseg: ok yeah the drawbar is way up there :P
12:07 AM hazzy-lab: I hope up on the knee
12:07 AM hazzy-lab: hop*
12:07 AM jesseg: lol
12:07 AM hazzy-lab: I kneel in the knee, guess that is what it is for, lol
12:09 AM hazzy-lab: That would certainly make sense for a lathe or horizontal mill
12:11 AM jesseg: lol yeah.. but the lathe already has a transmission -- it's a 1965 vintage Cincinnati hydroshift LOL
12:12 AM hazzy-lab: That is a nice lathe!!!
12:12 AM hazzy-lab: You could but a 8 speed automatic on it though ...
12:12 AM hazzy-lab: :D
12:12 AM jesseg: LOL
12:13 AM jesseg: but I bet a 6 speed manual transmission or even an automatic from something like a geo metro wouldn't be too heavy for my mill :P
12:13 AM jesseg: but.. a lot of work :P
12:15 AM hazzy-lab: yeah, and not much to gain
12:15 AM hazzy-lab: but it would be pretty neat
12:15 AM jesseg: lol yeah not much to gain.. more of a cool factor I guess.. but also it should last a lifetime :P
12:16 AM jesseg: and probably run pretty quiet too
12:16 AM hazzy-lab: and you'd have reverse ...
12:17 AM hazzy-lab: (did the geo metros even have rev., or did you have to open the door and kick?)
12:17 AM IchGucksLive: morning from hot germany
12:17 AM hazzy-lab: morning Ichs
12:18 AM IchGucksLive: its 7am got 22deg outside
12:19 AM roycroft: it's 10:15 pm here and still 27 degrees
12:19 AM jesseg: LOL good point hazzy-lab I think the geo metros (all 3 cylinders of them) only went forwards and you had to push it backwards
12:19 AM roycroft: we're forecast to get down to 11 tonight
12:19 AM roycroft: i hope that's the case
12:19 AM roycroft: it's bloody hot everywhere
12:20 AM hazzy-lab: not here, coolest summer in years, guess we sent it all your way, lol
12:20 AM hazzy-lab: sorry about that :)
12:21 AM hazzy-lab: roycroft: Still like your incra router lift?
12:21 AM IchGucksLive: 1700 hits yesterday on YT we are going back up to the 3000a day
12:22 AM IchGucksLive: Hope is never gone die
12:24 AM jesseg: so forums and my brother pretty much all agree: I should do away with variator :P
12:24 AM * hazzy-lab agrees too
12:26 AM jesseg: What about keeping the back gear? Is the back gear kind of a high wear troublesome thing like the variator, or do they hold up pretty good?
12:27 AM hazzy-lab: The back gears see very little use, and therefore wear, so if it is in good shape I would keep it, they don't make much noise either
12:28 AM hazzy-lab: and when you convert to CNC you can use the bull gear as an encoder ....
12:29 AM jesseg: ok yeah. because if I was running a larger diameter fly cutter or something I might want more torque, and the back gear could do that for me to make up for the fact that I had a fixed belt ratio and was using VFD for my speed
12:30 AM IchGucksLive: im off 2 garden
12:30 AM roycroft: it's too hot to garden here
12:30 AM roycroft: all i'm doing these days is irrigating
12:31 AM jesseg: oh yeah I got my sprinkler's in the cow's pasture going the other day
12:31 AM roycroft: i just got back from the shop
12:31 AM roycroft: i was going over the parts that i have for my cnc conversion
12:31 AM roycroft: and realised that i never got a rack mount enclosure for the electronics
12:40 AM jesseg: hey are BP motors typically 1800RPM motors?
12:40 AM jesseg: or are they 900 or 3600?
12:40 AM hazzy-lab: 1800
12:40 AM jesseg: ok gotcha
12:44 AM jesseg: oh hey I did an experiment today - turned on my cheap Chinese VFD to 60hz then just used the mill's forward/stop/reverse switch to control the motor. It worked great, except instant reversals are not allowed, the VFD throws an error and lets the motor free wheel to a stop :P
12:45 AM jesseg: which means I may be able to use the same vfd for my lathe and my mill.. just pretending it's 3 phase shore power.
12:45 AM hazzy-lab: Yes, that will work, but it is hard on the VFD
12:45 AM hazzy-lab: or so the manufacturers claim :)
12:46 AM jesseg: but if the VFD is correctly designed with cycle by cycle current limiting it shouldn't be any problem at all
12:46 AM jesseg: but... what kind of corners they cut I do not know :P
12:49 AM hazzy-lab: I bet its fine, but I did knew somebody who did that on a convoy, because he was lazy and wanted to use the same switches, it worked fine for years, then they replaced the VFD and it kept failing and the MFG would not cover it as it was not an approved use
12:49 AM jesseg: LOL
12:49 AM hazzy-lab: conveyor, lol
12:50 AM jesseg: ok well I might order a spare VFD and abuse one till it shoots a ring of fire then put in the new one and stop abusing it :P
12:50 AM roycroft: in one sentence you said "chinese vfd"
12:50 AM roycroft: and in another you said "correctly designed"
12:50 AM roycroft: please reevaluate your statements :)
12:51 AM hazzy-lab: roycroft: LOL
12:51 AM hazzy-lab: good point
12:51 AM jesseg: roycroft, hahaha ok just for you: If it's a correctly designed Chinese VFD.... :D :D :D
12:51 AM jesseg: Save time, save space, but it all in once sentence :D
12:51 AM roycroft: so
12:51 AM roycroft: if it's an oxymoron
12:51 AM hazzy-lab: which is an oxymoron xD
12:51 AM jesseg: *put
12:51 AM jesseg: roycroft, well I think I remember seeing current transformers in this one when I had it apart
12:52 AM roycroft: so what i'm doing is potentially interesting
12:52 AM roycroft: i have a small rolling cart that was originally part of an ibm computer system
12:52 AM roycroft: the front and rear have rails for mounting standard 19" rack mount gear
12:53 AM jesseg: roycroft, but maybe I'll just make a MADE IN USA (with global parts) VFD that is correctly designed for emulating shore power 3 phase :P
12:53 AM roycroft: i am mounting my linuxcnc computer in it, the 48v power supply, and an enclosure that will hold all the drivers and other electronics
12:53 AM roycroft: i shall build a control panel that i'll set on top of this rack - the height is perfect for it
12:53 AM jesseg: PIcs?
12:53 AM roycroft: what i hope to be able to do is use it for my mill/drill cnc and also a lathe or some other cnc
12:53 AM roycroft: same power supply, same computer, same electronics
12:53 AM roycroft: at least some of the same electronics
12:54 AM roycroft: i don't have any pictures of it yet
12:54 AM roycroft: but the idea is to mount the electronics on the cart with cables to go to the machine
12:54 AM roycroft: and i can use most of the same components for multiple machines
12:54 AM roycroft: i can't operate more than one at a time, of course
12:55 AM roycroft: but if i get to the point that i need to do that i'll build more stuff
12:56 AM roycroft: i picked up a stainless steel computer keyboard for a kiosk that work brilliantly for this cnc project
01:04 AM hazzy-lab: gn8
01:04 AM roycroft: https://www.ebay.com/itm/123258733623
01:04 AM roycroft: it's just like that
01:04 AM roycroft: except i paid $30 for mine, with free shipping
01:04 AM roycroft: waterproof/vandalproof
01:04 AM roycroft: perfect for a dirty, messy shop environment
01:05 AM jesseg: is that like a trackball on the end?
01:05 AM roycroft: yes
01:05 AM roycroft: it has a trackball
01:05 AM jesseg: that is amazing..
01:05 AM roycroft: which will be very useful for linuxcnc
01:05 AM roycroft: it's not a comfortable keyboard to type on
01:05 AM roycroft: i would not want to use it to write my master's thesis
01:06 AM roycroft: but it's perfectly functional and will be fine for the use it will get
01:08 AM roycroft: i plan on building my control panel with drop-in modules, so i can easily reconfigure it if/when i want
01:11 AM roycroft: https://www.ebay.com/itm/192561604906
01:11 AM roycroft: i got one of those, which should be very nice for jogging
01:11 AM roycroft: it's nice and big and has a really good feel
01:33 AM jesseg: grrr.. My mill's manufacturer was listing a new quill worm wheel gear for my mill earlier today now it's vanished completely from the site.. Lots of other parts listed though.. but that was the one thing that sparked this whole teardown :P
01:59 AM jesseg: hazzy-lab, hey when you push your motor to 68hz, are you also ramping up the voltage likewise, or still capping it at 240v?
02:14 AM Deejay: moin
02:14 AM jesseg: Morning Deejay
02:38 AM selroc: hello
05:33 AM jthornton: morning
05:34 AM Tom_L: morning
06:37 AM rebecca: hmmmmm how much Z is too much Z?
06:37 AM rebecca: have 600mm Z rails + ballscrew
06:38 AM rebecca: router style gantry machine
06:39 AM rebecca: leaning towards 150z travel when loaded with typical bit
06:40 AM rebecca: and 160mm gantry height from bed. favoring rigidity over using all the travel possible
06:43 AM rebecca: anyone erred on either side of this question themselves and have thoughts?
06:58 AM rebecca: also, what clearance are people allowing for endstops and limit switches? 25mm on each end seems ample to me..
07:15 AM IchGucksLive: hi
07:15 AM IchGucksLive: rebecca, still on
07:16 AM rebecca: hey IchGucksLive
07:16 AM IchGucksLive: hi
07:16 AM rebecca: yup, still about
07:17 AM IchGucksLive: rebecca, on the Z question a moving XYZ is only goot to 175mm
07:17 AM IchGucksLive: if ony YZ moves it max be 350mm
07:17 AM Tom_L: you need more z if you use long tools or have a vise
07:18 AM Tom_L: if you're routing circuit boards you don't need any
07:18 AM Tom_L: or very little
07:18 AM IchGucksLive: rebecca, from 200mm Z best to move the Rails not the Carriages
07:19 AM rebecca: mmmm, good point Tom_L about long tools
07:19 AM IchGucksLive: rebecca, did you see my mashines
07:19 AM IchGucksLive: rebecca, Carriages
07:19 AM IchGucksLive: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmwhCL92ZQRSVqFe3jGwJSQ/videos
07:19 AM IchGucksLive: ;-)
07:20 AM rebecca: current the carriage centres are 315mm. might increase that slightly to accomodate a bit longer tool for thick surface contouring operations
07:20 AM IchGucksLive: rebecca, this is a AUL mill at 175mm Z https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd3UCLH1YuM&feature=youtu.be
07:21 AM rebecca: IchGucksLive: yes, seen your machines :)
07:22 AM rebecca: nice machine
07:23 AM rebecca: have settled upon 32.4mm baltic birch ply for my machine frame.
07:23 AM IchGucksLive: rebecca, here is a 1000 IPM one with 450mm Z https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=kMjTQDD75vw
07:23 AM rebecca: well, 30mm with white laminate on each side
07:24 AM rebecca: that gantry looks super high
07:25 AM IchGucksLive: it will get 4 rails Z
07:25 AM rebecca: ah
07:25 AM IchGucksLive: Canter 4Kw ER32
07:25 AM IchGucksLive: Center
07:26 AM rebecca: cool
07:26 AM rebecca: i have a 2.2kw er20 spindle
07:26 AM rebecca: sitting on bench behind me :D
07:27 AM IchGucksLive: nice let it flow in at 8k rpm for 1hr
07:27 AM rebecca: so excited to get that running
07:27 AM IchGucksLive: then you are up at 24k
07:27 AM mase: Hi people
07:27 AM IchGucksLive: hi mase
07:27 AM mase: rebecca, I guess u bought a china spindle
07:27 AM mase: I have one too
07:27 AM IchGucksLive: mase, as we all do
07:28 AM rebecca: yeah, will be hard to resist cranking it but i will follow the manufacturers instructions which call for a slow ramping up of speeds. wearing it in properly
07:28 AM rebecca: mase: i did indeed. hopefully it's decent
07:28 AM mase: I measurred the runout and was surprised to measure nothing
07:28 AM rebecca: oh, haven't got around to that yet
07:28 AM rebecca: nice to hear!
07:28 AM rebecca: hope mine is similar
07:29 AM mase: I think they sell them on ebay with info about runout from 0.01 to 0.03
07:30 AM mase: My clock is incremented 0.01
07:30 AM mase: as I turn the tip of the spindle nothing happens
07:30 AM mase: I will make a video
07:31 AM rebecca: cool :)
07:31 AM mase: And than turn in my channel and give me a thumbs up, subscribe and patreon me
07:31 AM IchGucksLive: the new Hyanyang can gpo as low as 1000 Rpm at the Spindle on drilling 8mm bit
07:31 AM mase: I need money
07:32 AM mase: jokes aside
07:32 AM rebecca: lol
07:32 AM mase: I was really good I woudn't believe
07:32 AM mase: No I mean it was really good
07:32 AM IchGucksLive: 4 bearing is better
07:32 AM rebecca: what you planning to cut?
07:32 AM mase: Me
07:32 AM IchGucksLive: if you get a older one you may see different runout
07:33 AM IchGucksLive: im off folks
07:33 AM mase: ok take cake pal
07:33 AM rebecca: seeya IchGucksLive
07:34 AM mase: I am at designing my own router mill
07:34 AM rebecca: me too
07:34 AM rebecca: but what for?
07:34 AM mase: I am sure about the guides and ball screws
07:34 AM mase: elektronics and how i drive it
07:34 AM mase: But I am not so sure which aluprofiles I have to use
07:34 AM rebecca: okay. i have practically all my parts except frame.
07:34 AM mase: thats wired I know
07:35 AM rebecca: ahhh
07:35 AM rebecca: ok
07:35 AM rebecca: i'm designing mine based on very thick plywood
07:35 AM mase: rebecca u are at my point
07:35 AM mase: :D
07:35 AM mase: I think thats ok
07:35 AM mase: I take alu profiles
07:36 AM mase: for portal 200x120 heavy
07:36 AM mase: the cnc bed I must calculate
07:36 AM rebecca: yeah, will be erring towards overkill on how beefy it is. will probably be a heavy machine so not particularly fast, but don't need great speed.
07:37 AM rebecca: 200x120cm bed?
07:37 AM mase: which program u construct
07:37 AM robotustra: are you machinists?
07:38 AM rebecca: inkscape! i did a bunch of design work in freecad but was just going too slow. switched back to inkscape because i'm very familiar with using it and i need to get my machine finished asap
07:38 AM mase: Sorry I was wrong :D it was 200x120mm for the main portal bar
07:39 AM rebecca: robotustra: nope, but have worked operation and programming industrial cnc routers cutting a variety of wood/metal/plastic
07:39 AM mase: No I am not a machinist but I worked with metal
07:39 AM mase: rebecca that is selfdestruction lol
07:39 AM robotustra: 2d? or 3d?
07:40 AM mase: ok have to leave
07:40 AM rebecca: mostly 2.5d but some 3d
07:40 AM mase: take care
07:40 AM robotustra: rebecca, what did you fabricate?
07:41 AM robotustra: and what cam do you use?
07:42 AM rebecca: wide variety of stuff although i haven't machined anything harder than Al yet
07:43 AM robotustra: al is a metal already. and behave like metal, not plastic
07:44 AM robotustra: to mill something harder just adjust your feeds and add come coolant :)
07:44 AM rebecca: forget the names of the cad apps where i worked. the only 3d stuff i have done has been on my little 3020 at home
07:44 AM robotustra: rebecca, did you buy it?
07:44 AM rebecca: used heekscad and freecad for generating paths for that
07:44 AM robotustra: is it chineese router?
07:45 AM rebecca: yeah. cheap chinese one but stripped electronics and replaced it with grbl system i put together
07:45 AM rebecca: added limit switches and nice vac system and lighting
07:45 AM rebecca: cute little cnc now but need something bigger!
07:45 AM robotustra: grbl == arduino+ grbl shield?
07:46 AM robotustra: is the router rigid?
07:46 AM rebecca: grbl = cnc firmware which runs on arduino hardware. i didn't use a shield, just directly wired to little stepper modules
07:46 AM robotustra: ok
07:47 AM rebecca: it's good enough to cut Al
07:47 AM robotustra: which board do you use?
07:47 AM rebecca: slowly :)
07:47 AM robotustra: I also mill aluminum only on my router
07:47 AM robotustra: tried some steel but it's too slow, need to add coolant
07:48 AM rebecca: i forget which arduino is in it
07:48 AM rebecca: cool
07:48 AM robotustra: and chips blower with serious air compressor
07:48 AM phaxx: I believe it's usually a 328p for grbl.
07:48 AM rebecca: i have some Ti to test on it
07:48 AM rebecca: yeah, 328p based
07:49 AM robotustra: https://www.ebay.com/itm/KS0288-DC-12V-CNC-GRBL-Keyestudio-with-Usb-Cable-Controller-Board-MEGA328p/302733565620?hash=item467c539eb4
07:49 AM robotustra: like this?
07:50 AM rebecca: https://imgur.com/a/oM7KV
07:51 AM robotustra: ok
07:51 AM robotustra: and what controller do you use?
07:51 AM robotustra: linuxcnc?
07:51 AM rebecca: kind of stuff i did between jobs when i operated a cnc for work: https://imgur.com/a/oYaiW
07:51 AM rebecca: i control grbl with bCNC
07:51 AM rebecca: really like that combo
07:52 AM robotustra: cool
07:53 AM robotustra: bcnc has no feedback from spindle?
07:53 AM rebecca: correct
07:54 AM robotustra: for cutting it's not so important
07:54 AM rebecca: not planning on tapping or fancy drilling so can live without spindle feedback
07:55 AM robotustra: true
07:55 AM robotustra: but for my new lathe I'll need something more serious
07:55 AM rebecca: cool
07:56 AM robotustra: so, linuxcnc + mesa ...
07:56 AM rebecca: ooooh, nice.
07:56 AM robotustra: old router works on win7+mach3+tb6500
07:57 AM robotustra: it PC will die I'll probably replace it with linux+bcnc
07:58 AM robotustra: somebody designed a new UI for linuxcncn in here?
07:58 AM rebecca: i tried to get linuxcnc working a couple of times but just kept having problems with it. grbl is not as sophisticated but it just works! (TM) :D
07:58 AM rebecca: would love to eventually get it working
07:58 AM rebecca: will probably be getting a little metal lathe soon
07:59 AM rebecca: so maybe i can CNC-ify that with linuxcnc
07:59 AM robotustra: I didn't try linuxcnc yet, just run some simulations, and I'm reading docs on it right now
07:59 AM rebecca: cool
08:00 AM rebecca: https://imgur.com/a/131gd
08:00 AM rebecca: that shows how my little cnc is setup now
08:02 AM rebecca: and cutting Al
08:02 AM rebecca: https://imgur.com/a/xSZuB
08:02 AM robotustra: http://robotustra.ca/my-cnc-mill2
08:02 AM robotustra: it's in russian, but pics are clear
08:03 AM rebecca: oh, very nice!
08:03 AM robotustra: https://imgur.com/DEpWtuJ
08:03 AM robotustra: do some stepper holder for new lathe
08:04 AM robotustra: https://imgur.com/udt8ARS
08:05 AM robotustra: rebecca, are you from Germany?
08:05 AM rebecca: cool machine
08:05 AM rebecca: nope, Australia
08:05 AM robotustra: oh, just on the opposite side of earth from me :)
08:06 AM rebecca: the sign is Norwegian, i made it for a friend I was visiting there
08:06 AM robotustra: so you are in Norway now?
08:06 AM rebecca: nope. just on holidays there late last year
08:06 AM rebecca: beautiful country
08:07 AM robotustra: it should be expensive to live in Australia
08:08 AM rebecca: cost of living in the city here seemed similar to cost of living in Norway/Finland
08:08 AM rebecca: house prices perhaps a bit more expensive
08:08 AM rebecca: here
08:08 AM robotustra: how much is the bread ?
08:08 AM robotustra: $7?
08:09 AM rebecca: depends how fancy!
08:09 AM rebecca: checking now
08:10 AM rebecca: i don't usually do the shopping hehe
08:10 AM robotustra: but you could be aware of prices
08:10 AM robotustra: it's $2-4 in canada
08:12 AM rebecca: generic brand white bread: 1.8AUD
08:12 AM robotustra: about the same
08:13 AM rebecca: fancy breads upto ~8AUD
08:13 AM robotustra: hm, I did some latiency test on t61 and it's not good results
08:14 AM robotustra: I got about ~650000 ns of jitter
08:15 AM robotustra: I can't understand how come it's so big
08:15 AM rebecca: is this parallel port latency test?
08:16 AM robotustra: no, it runs without any hardware
08:16 AM rebecca: ah, ok
08:16 AM robotustra: stop, or it was 65000 ns
08:17 AM robotustra: I have to verify
08:19 AM robotustra: anyway it's still very big jitter
08:19 AM robotustra: on athlon 3Ghz the jitter is about 3000ns
08:21 AM XXCoder: robotustra: power management off
08:21 AM XXCoder: in bios
08:22 AM robotustra: XXCoder, ok, I'll try
08:22 AM XXCoder: something else there I think but literally woke up minutes ago
08:22 AM rebecca: morning!
08:22 AM XXCoder: no its middle of night lol
08:22 AM robotustra: morning
08:23 AM robotustra: good night
08:23 AM XXCoder: I normally wake up 6 hours later
08:23 AM rebecca: oh, good nighting!
08:23 AM XXCoder: been having sleeping issues due to weather being so hot
08:23 AM robotustra: woke up and the first thing to do is to CHECK linuxcnc channel
08:24 AM XXCoder: well after using restroom :P
08:24 AM XXCoder: any gaming card would help in latency, expecially if youre using onboard that uses shared memory
08:24 AM XXCoder: disable that
08:25 AM XXCoder: dont have to be super shiny video card
08:25 AM robotustra: I was thinking to use t61 thinkpad for linuxcnc controller
08:25 AM XXCoder: laptop?
08:25 AM robotustra: yeah
08:25 AM XXCoder: normally laptops suck for this
08:26 AM XXCoder: my old laptop (one i first used to just play aropund with linuxcnc) was at over 250000 jitter lol
08:26 AM robotustra: I was thinking to use laptop + ethernet mesa
08:26 AM XXCoder: theres fairly cheap board computer that can do linuxcnc very well but cant remember name etc
08:26 AM robotustra: the same I have here, it's about 650000
08:27 AM XXCoder: hmm dont MESA make jitter matter far less
08:27 AM XXCoder: but even so 640k dang
08:27 AM robotustra: I just installed linuxcnc yeterday
08:27 AM robotustra: I have to tune it
08:28 AM XXCoder: not sure if can tune it in. laptops suck on jitter
08:28 AM robotustra: this jitter was when I started to run FF + youtube
08:28 AM XXCoder: maybe after you disable any and all power management
08:28 AM XXCoder: I run HD youtube as large as I can go, 3 glxgears windows, and move a window around so its constantly re-rendering
08:29 AM robotustra: anyway, I'll try to reduce jitter as much as possible, if it will be not possible, just will use anouther PC
08:29 AM XXCoder: yeah. laptop is great for farting around anyway. I certainly did use mine for that
08:30 AM robotustra: laptops have ideal form factor to be a cnc console
08:30 AM XXCoder: backend though, at hardware level
08:30 AM XXCoder: you can't disable onboard video card
08:30 AM robotustra: ok, I'll google some recepies
08:31 AM robotustra: I have give it a try
08:31 AM XXCoder: indeed :) maybe its one of few good ones
08:36 AM XXCoder: have fun, trying to sleep again wish me lick
08:36 AM XXCoder: luck
08:36 AM rebecca: ni ni :)
08:36 AM XXCoder: its actually partially cloudy dang
08:37 AM XXCoder: monday still will be 92f ugh
08:37 AM XXCoder: then rest... 70sf :D
08:39 AM XXCoder: laters.
08:41 AM robotustra: well, forums tell that t61 is not a good candidate for linux cnc, + extra latiency from ethernet card
08:45 AM roycroft: it's supposed to cool off here today
08:45 AM roycroft: the high is forecast to be only 33
08:45 AM roycroft: that would be welcome
08:46 AM robotustra: hazzy-lab, are you doing new gui for linuxcnc?
09:01 AM Loetmichel: robotustra: any thinkpad has extensive power saving interrups which make them bad for realtime
09:03 AM robotustra: Loetmichel, is it possible to fix?
09:05 AM Loetmichel: nope
09:05 AM Loetmichel: notebooks in general are not first call for LinuxCNC if you use it with LPT port bitbanging
09:06 AM Loetmichel: and IBM notebooks have a few extra kinks in that regard
09:06 AM Loetmichel: use any old desktop PC where you can deactivate all that power saving shit
09:07 AM robotustra: I think I'll use PC
09:07 AM robotustra: and I'll use laptop differently
09:08 AM Loetmichel: good idea ,)
09:15 AM robotustra: what encoder could be used with 7i76?
09:16 AM pcw_home: any encoder with 5V signaling (TTL or differential)
09:17 AM robotustra: ABZ type?
09:17 AM robotustra: but what is the optimal pulse per rotation?
09:17 AM pcw_home: Yes, forgot to say any 5V _quadrature_ encoder
09:18 AM robotustra: what is the good ppr?
09:18 AM robotustra: 1000 2000? 8000?
09:18 AM pcw_home: usually as high as you can get
09:18 AM rebecca: Tom_L, thanks for the feedback on Z. have tweaked my numbers a little after trying the design with a wide variety of bit lengths
09:30 AM jesseg: Good Morning
09:30 AM robotustra: morning
10:11 AM kolik is now known as robotustra
11:07 AM `Wolf: well this doesn’t look fun https://i.imgur.com/LMfI6tN.jpg
11:11 AM `Wolf: ways dont looks great, but not total loss I think https://imgur.com/a/Ehnp1OL
11:16 AM gloops: 37C in the shade...
11:16 AM `Wolf: I’m not going to check
11:17 AM `Wolf: I do know I’m drenched in sweat
11:17 AM `Wolf: well this doesn’t look fun https://i.imgur.com/LMfI6tN.jpg
11:17 AM `Wolf: pulling off access plates and looking the thing over more
11:18 AM `Wolf: https://imgur.com/a/Ehnp1OL
11:18 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
11:18 AM * roycroft thinks he's getting over his initial enchantment with kwik-switch
11:18 AM `Wolf: lol roycroft
11:19 AM gloops: looks like 3 different drives there - chain, rack and screw
11:19 AM roycroft: it's not a bad system
11:19 AM roycroft: but for my small mill, tts probably makes more sense
11:19 AM robotustra: `Wolf, is it your surfece grinder?
11:19 AM roycroft: i'll just bite the bullet and make a pneumatic draw bar control for the thing
11:19 AM `Wolf: gloops: chain for the X, screw for the Y, right angle gear box for the Z
11:19 AM `Wolf: robotustra: yes
11:20 AM roycroft: it will be cheaper to build that and go with tts than to buy all the kwik-switch gear
11:20 AM robotustra: there is an srcaping marks on the rails - so everything is not so bad
11:20 AM robotustra: there are
11:21 AM `Wolf: I also can’t get the wheel hub nut to break loose, and I’m hesitant to use the impact gun on it
11:21 AM robotustra: ordered 5i25+7i76
11:21 AM IchGucksLive: robotustra, hi im in germany
11:22 AM robotustra: I'm in canada :)
11:22 AM * roycroft notes that some unscrupulous but clueful sellers have been known to flake worn out machines and pass them off as good
11:22 AM IchGucksLive: robotustra, here is my Linuxcnc Youtube channel may help in some way https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmwhCL92ZQRSVqFe3jGwJSQ/videos
11:23 AM IchGucksLive: robotustra, what are you building or making moving
11:23 AM `Wolf: roycroft: would be too much work for a business liquidation auction lol
11:23 AM robotustra: IchGucksLive, currently I;m building cnc lathe, and I have build cnc router
11:24 AM `Wolf: plus the flaking is missing in the normal wear area
11:24 AM roycroft: for a liquidation auction, sure
11:24 AM IchGucksLive: robotustra, the combination you use is quite good for it
11:24 AM IchGucksLive: robotustra, why not going Ethernet with the 7i76e
11:24 AM robotustra: IchGucksLive, here is my router https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwhQ6ab06e0
11:25 AM `Wolf: https://imgur.com/Ma0kOOS this pic you can see the wear under the right side of the chuck
11:25 AM robotustra: IchGucksLive, I think ethernet will add some extra delays
11:25 AM robotustra: into jitter
11:25 AM `Wolf: actually, the ethernet unloads some of the load off the host computer and less jitters
11:26 AM IchGucksLive: agree with wolf
11:26 AM robotustra: good to know but too late :)
11:26 AM IchGucksLive: robotustra, and oin lathe you can go very cheep 7i92 and a China 5Axis bob
11:26 AM IchGucksLive: robotustra, mashines i build and run https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd3UCLH1YuM&feature=youtu.be
11:27 AM `Wolf: my ITX would kinda suck for a step/gen system but would work great for a ethernet setup
11:27 AM robotustra: I know, but I'm planning to make it extra indexer/spindle and toolchanger
11:27 AM `Wolf: either way you can’t go wrong tho
11:29 AM robotustra: IchGucksLive, big device
11:30 AM robotustra: and I want to make rigid tapping and threading, so I need an encoder
11:30 AM robotustra: so I can't use bob
11:30 AM robotustra: IchGucksLive, this is a current state on my cnc lathe
11:30 AM robotustra: https://imgur.com/AOtnxMw
11:31 AM robotustra: https://imgur.com/dLDacrP
11:35 AM IchGucksLive: nice mashine to be build
11:35 AM pcw_home: robotustra: You can use a parallel port/BOB and do threading/rigid tapping but you will be limited to say 100-500 PPR encoders
11:35 AM IchGucksLive: gloops, Red moon tonight
11:35 AM gloops: yes - end days ichs
11:36 AM IchGucksLive: about 1000people might join me at the telescope
11:36 AM robotustra: pcw_home, do you think if I've already spent ~$3k on all stuff I'll go with cheap bob and cheap 500ppr encoder? :)
11:37 AM robotustra: my plan is mesa 7i76+ at least 2000ppm
11:38 AM robotustra: no eclipse in Americas this year
11:38 AM robotustra: the next full eclipse is on 21st of January 2019
11:38 AM roycroft: the blood moon eclipse will happen all around the world
11:39 AM roycroft: it just won't be visible in the western hemisphere
11:39 AM roycroft: mars is fripping *YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE* right now though
11:39 AM roycroft: last night when i looked up i could hardly believe it
11:39 AM roycroft: i haven't seen mars that big in ages
11:40 AM Deejay: incoming! ;)
11:41 AM roycroft: ming the merciless is gathering up his troops
11:42 AM robotustra: IchGucksLive, Oh, good idea to use game joystick to control cnc devices
11:42 AM robotustra: at least in manual mode
11:43 AM IchGucksLive: robotustra, on your money spend use a XHX-HB04 wirers
11:43 AM IchGucksLive: wirerd
11:44 AM robotustra: I don't think it's so comfortable
11:44 AM robotustra: for instance you can't move 2 axii in the same time with it, or you can?
11:46 AM robotustra: I have to investigate this possibility for manual mode for my cnc mill
11:46 AM robotustra: because I'm sick to use keyboard to move axii
11:46 AM `Wolf: jog with the pendant is one axis only i think
11:47 AM robotustra: with joystik I'll be able to move 2-3 axii easy
11:47 AM `Wolf: if you use a game pad you can move everything at once lol
11:47 AM IchGucksLive: uo to your workneed
11:48 AM `Wolf: this is the remote I use on my old build https://i.imgur.com/XgBhOjG.jpg
11:48 AM robotustra: I was thinking about comfortable control, but it looks like joystick is a right device for this
11:49 AM `Wolf: the stuff to add it has already been done so pretty easy
11:50 AM robotustra: actually the standard joistick like this has 24 buttons and 2 joysticks
11:50 AM `Wolf: x/y on one analog stick w/ either step or continuous drive w/ 3 settings for each, and one of the bumpers is set up as a dead man so I can’t crash the machine by accident
11:50 AM robotustra: true
11:51 AM robotustra: I like this idea very much
11:52 AM `Wolf: I also already had the thing from using gameboy emulator on my pc at one time lol
11:52 AM robotustra: gameboy does not have so much inputs like this one
11:53 AM `Wolf: yeah, its more of a copy of a PS2 controller
11:56 AM robotustra: it would be nice also to have some small screen to see the current mode of input
11:56 AM robotustra: like if I want to do fast jogging or so
11:56 AM `Wolf: yeah that part is beyond my skill set
11:57 AM `Wolf: simple serial to a small LCD at the machine would be nice to show controller state
11:58 AM robotustra: I mean to use PS2 + small screen instead of XHC-HB04
11:58 AM `Wolf: yes
11:59 AM roycroft: well, i just burned up another dremel tool
11:59 AM robotustra: roycroft, congrats
11:59 AM roycroft: i haven't done that in years, because i haven't used one in years
11:59 AM `Wolf: PS2 remote and a wired LCD at the machine to work like a small DRO and setting display
12:00 PM roycroft: i think the only reason those things sell is because 95% of them are christmas/birthday gifts that never get used
12:00 PM `Wolf: lol
12:00 PM roycroft: i just couldn't see lugging my flex shaft tool down here to cut off a few screws
12:00 PM `Wolf: I have a cordless milwaukee m12 dremel, I use is very very rarely
12:00 PM roycroft: so i bought a dremel, hoping it would last through the job
12:00 PM roycroft: which consists of cutting off 16 12-24 screws
12:00 PM robotustra: `Wolf, not only DRO, for instance if I want a position precisely I would chande type of feed like continous/step
12:01 PM roycroft: i got 9 of them done before the magic smoke made an escape from the dremel
12:01 PM `Wolf: robotustra: that would be the control state/settings I mentioned
12:01 PM robotustra: ok
12:01 PM roycroft: i wonder of the proxxon tool works better than dremel
12:01 PM `Wolf: no idea roycroft
12:02 PM roycroft: if it has bearings instead of bushings it might
12:02 PM robotustra: roycroft, what about using compressed air tools? they last longer
12:02 PM roycroft: i was taking really light cuts
12:02 PM `Wolf: what died, the motor or bearings
12:02 PM roycroft: robutustra: if i am not going to haul a flex shaft tool to a field location i'm certainly not going to haul a big air compressor
12:02 PM roycroft: what are bearings?
12:02 PM roycroft: this is a dremel
12:02 PM roycroft: it has bushings
12:02 PM `Wolf: lol bushing… fail
12:02 PM robotustra: I never considered dremmel a serious tool that's why I never bought it :)
12:03 PM roycroft: i was taking really really light cuts
12:03 PM `Wolf: I might pull my cordless one apart and upgrade it
12:03 PM roycroft: i know that dremels cannot handle radial load
12:03 PM IchGucksLive: robotustra, use proxxon ibE
12:03 PM roycroft: i have a nice foredom flex-shaft tool in my shop
12:03 PM roycroft: as well as a variety of pneumatic cutoff tools/die grinders
12:04 PM roycroft: i'm going to take this back and see if they'll give me another one
12:04 PM `Wolf: Foredrom tool is on my wishlist
12:04 PM roycroft: this one lasted 9 screws
12:04 PM roycroft: i have six to go
12:04 PM `Wolf: I would
12:04 PM roycroft: so hopefully the second one will not fail before i finish the job
12:04 PM robotustra: probaby I'll order soon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO_WL0Vx4BA + some compressed air tools
12:04 PM roycroft: and i put the tool on the company credit card
12:04 PM roycroft: i love my foredom flex shaft tool
12:05 PM robotustra: proxxon is unreasonably expensive devices
12:05 PM roycroft: i don't know about that
12:05 PM roycroft: their rotary tool si US$125
12:05 PM roycroft: this dremel was $60
12:05 PM `Wolf: dont look at the price on the foredom then lol
12:05 PM roycroft: and it lasted 20 minutes/9 screws
12:05 PM robotustra: yeah
12:05 PM roycroft: if the proxxon lasts 45 minutes/20 screws you're money ahead already
12:06 PM roycroft: wolf: it seized up and blue-black smoke came out
12:06 PM `Wolf: but if you break the dremel fast enough you can keep taking it back for new one
12:06 PM roycroft: no sparks though
12:06 PM roycroft: it was almost certainly the bushings
12:06 PM IchGucksLive: i need to make a Pull request to Freecad
12:06 PM roycroft: not disintegrating
12:06 PM roycroft: i've had that happen with dremels
12:07 PM IchGucksLive: now the Mashine CRc is working also on Radius Arc
12:07 PM roycroft: you're going along, and then all of a sudden you have 0.075" runout
12:07 PM IchGucksLive: cd ..
12:07 PM `Wolf: thats pretty bad
12:07 PM roycroft: take it apart, see a big gap where the bushing was, and bits of bronze all over the place
12:08 PM `Wolf: my cordless one is still running strong after doing a bunch of drywall holes
12:08 PM `Wolf: and getting full of drywall dust…
12:08 PM roycroft: i have a roto-zip for doing that kind of stuff
12:08 PM roycroft: but it doesn't load a dremel as much as cutting screws off
12:09 PM `Wolf: used up about 30 fiber discs with it as well
12:09 PM * roycroft heads back to the store to get another dremel that still has its magic smoke
12:09 PM `Wolf: I use it to get rounded nuts off
12:10 PM `Wolf: when nothing else will fit
12:15 PM robotustra: somebody already did it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18DhP3zjP24
12:16 PM `Wolf: robotustra: yeah, there is a few things in the WIKI on how to setup game pads
12:16 PM `Wolf: none with a extra display tho
12:17 PM IchGucksLive: robotustra, a arduino DRO can be setup to show your needs
12:18 PM IchGucksLive: robotustra look in the xhc-hb04 code it showes the DRO stuff to be transmitted
12:18 PM IchGucksLive: im off BYE
12:18 PM IchGucksLive: have a nice full moon in red or blanc where ever you can see it
12:19 PM robotustra: IchGucksLive, buy
12:19 PM `Wolf: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNCKnowledgeBase Control pendants and add-ons
12:21 PM `Wolf: I did my logitech joystick pendant over 3yrs ago, so some of the stuff has changed
12:24 PM MarkusBec: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mwq5DMbIiUYQuMmla2IXut6RnA6yjmQA?usp=sharing
12:24 PM MarkusBec: hi
12:25 PM MarkusBec: ich have problems with tuning the PIDs for a maho600
12:25 PM MarkusBec: how can i elimiate the lage ferror
12:27 PM robotustra: is it servo?
12:28 PM MarkusBec: yes
12:28 PM `Wolf: robotustra: another option, we could make our own pendant with whatever input controls you want https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/18-computer/22562-arduino-based-usb-pendant-for-linuxcnc
12:30 PM robotustra: `Wolf, yes we can, but I always try to optimise all my jobs with respect to the minimize (MY_TIME_AND_MONEY_SPENT).
12:30 PM robotustra: and it seems to me ps2 joistick seems optimal :)
12:30 PM `Wolf: yeah, well prior art makes its easy, then its just adding analog sticks to it
12:31 PM robotustra: MarkusBec, is your servo oveshoot the position?
12:33 PM robotustra: `Wolf, on our level of experience it's sometimes seems easyer to fabricate everything, BUT sometimes it's much cheaper/faster to find ready solution.
12:33 PM `Wolf: I know this lol
12:34 PM `Wolf: more so because I’ll hit walls when programming skill is needed
12:34 PM `Wolf: PS2 + wired LCD looks like a nice idea tho, http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man9/lcd.9.html
12:36 PM robotustra: actually you don't need DRO because you can see the screen with linux cnc running close to your machine
12:36 PM robotustra: DRO is already there :)
12:36 PM `Wolf: yeah, I know
12:36 PM robotustra: yesterday I tryed to change GUI frontend on linux cnc
12:36 PM `Wolf: but if you are adding a LCD screen for PS2 pendants might as well
12:37 PM robotustra: and I don't like them
12:37 PM robotustra: I don't know what to do
12:37 PM robotustra: I'm about to write my own frontend :)
12:38 PM `Wolf: now too bad I dont even understand half of what is on the LCD doc lol
12:38 PM robotustra: if hazzy-lab is doing the same thing, then probably I'll not programm frontend
12:39 PM robotustra: somebody in here have posted mockups of new GUI
12:40 PM `Wolf: no idea, I haven’t been following that right now
12:41 PM robotustra: hazzy-lab, are you here?
12:43 PM pcw_mesa: MarkusBec: first make sure that pid max error is set to 0 in your hal file (if you created the hal file with pncconf)
12:45 PM MarkusBec: setp pid.x.error-previous-target true ?
12:45 PM hazzy-m: robotustra: yes, we are working on a new front end. I am on my phone here, but when I get back to a PC I'll ping you
12:45 PM robotustra: ok
12:45 PM pcw_mesa: setp pid.x.error-previous-target true is corerect
12:46 PM MarkusBec: ok i have no max error in the hal file
12:46 PM MarkusBec: its generated with pncconf
12:46 PM pcw_mesa: ok maybe you have a late enough pncconf that that is fixed
12:49 PM MarkusBec: ah
12:49 PM MarkusBec: found the problem
12:49 PM MarkusBec: the maho600 used 1996 analog ac servos
12:49 PM MarkusBec: and if you use the div imput
12:50 PM MarkusBec: its not 4000rpm/10
12:50 PM MarkusBec: its 3800rpm/9V
12:51 PM pcw_mesa: Also you usually do not need I or D, so for initial tuning , I would set them to 0
12:51 PM MarkusBec: ok
12:52 PM MarkusBec: i think thats the way to tune it?
12:52 PM MarkusBec: http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tuning/servo.html
12:52 PM pcw_mesa: For velocity mode servos the most important tuning is FF1 (and its only 1.0 if then analog output scale is is machine units per second)
12:52 PM MarkusBec: first google hit is http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/motion/pid-theory.html
12:52 PM MarkusBec: but i think thats outdated?
12:54 PM pcw_mesa: The second one is fine but it misses the most important thing for velocity mode servos (feed forward)
12:54 PM MarkusBec: i calculated 3800rpm*1/3 for the gear * 5mm for the srew
12:55 PM MarkusBec: and divided it by 60 vor mm/sec
12:55 PM MarkusBec: is that correct ?
12:55 PM MrHindsight: timeanddate.com will be livestreaming the eclipse beginning at 2 p.m. EDT
12:55 PM pcw_mesa: mm or inch machine?
12:55 PM MarkusBec: mm
12:55 PM pcw_mesa: so roughly 100 mm/s at 10V
12:56 PM MarkusBec: the servo controller is 9V
12:56 PM MarkusBec: i have set min and max output to 9V
12:57 PM pcw_mesa: so approx analog scaling should be set for +-100
12:57 PM pcw_mesa: (for a near 1 FF1)
12:57 PM MarkusBec: ok
12:58 PM pcw_mesa: or FF1 should be closer to .1 (if you leave the analog scaling in volts)
01:00 PM pcw_mesa: with a 1.0 FF1 you will get a PID output of 100 with a commanded velocity (full scale) of 100 mm/s but you really want an output of 10 (with default +-10V scaling)
01:04 PM MarkusBec: ok
01:19 PM pcw_mesa: I think its cleaner to change the analog scaling to machine units per second (and then FF1 = 1.00) so all the PID hal pins are in easily understood engineering units but thats a bit more work
01:20 PM pcw_mesa: I guess it depends on if you prefer the PID output to be in volts or velocity
01:23 PM MarkusBec: oc
01:23 PM MarkusBec: i calculated a scall of 105
01:23 PM MarkusBec: and will try it
01:32 PM roycroft: it's friday!
01:32 PM * roycroft just noticed
01:35 PM * JT-Shop missed the last step on the ladder... when it quits hurting my wrist will feel so much better
01:36 PM pcw_mesa: Oww!
01:37 PM roycroft: i hate it when that happens
01:37 PM JT-Shop: yea I almost broke the chop saw stand with my head
01:38 PM gloops: steady on JT-Shop
01:38 PM roycroft: ouch!
01:50 PM Rab: JT-Shop, you're the third person I've known of to fall off a ladder in the past two months. The first one broke a wrist on one side and an ankle on the other, and the second is semi-vegetative. We gotta be careful.
01:50 PM Rab: All short falls, too; I guess those are harder to prepare for.
01:56 PM roycroft: one is often not so careful the last rung or two, and starts moving faster
01:56 PM roycroft: there's also very little room to recover on a short fall like that
01:56 PM roycroft: so yeah, they can be pretty bad
02:02 PM JT-Shop: yep
02:04 PM MarkusBec: pcw_mesa: hm the mashine does not go faster then 600mm/sec
02:05 PM MarkusBec: it should be 6000mm/sec
02:05 PM robotustra: what kind of endstops is better to use, mechanical ones, electromagnetic or optical?
02:06 PM pcw_mesa: 6000 MM/sec? run away!!
02:06 PM MarkusBec: ahm
02:06 PM MarkusBec: min
02:06 PM pcw_mesa: OK so it only moves at 1/10 full speed?
02:07 PM MarkusBec: yes
02:07 PM pcw_mesa: that possibly means you did not set the analog bounds to +- 105
02:09 PM pcw_mesa: minlim and maxlim...
02:09 PM `Wolf: robotustra: mechanical is pretty repeatable depending on the switch used, I’ve had issue with the electromagnetic triggering from chips piling up. optical would be neat but would need chip guarding as well
02:10 PM MarkusBec: OUTPUT_SCALE = 10.5
02:10 PM MarkusBec: OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT = -9
02:10 PM MarkusBec: OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT = 9
02:10 PM MarkusBec: arg no
02:10 PM MarkusBec: OUTPUT_SCALE = 105
02:10 PM MarkusBec: OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT = -9
02:10 PM MarkusBec: OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT = 9
02:10 PM robotustra: `Wolf, what do you mean by "chip quadring"?
02:11 PM `Wolf: metal chips flying off the end mill
02:11 PM `Wolf: from cut
02:11 PM robotustra: ah, I think to install them in secure place
02:11 PM pcw_mesa: yeah that will limit the analog out to about +- 1V
02:11 PM `Wolf: could break the beam and trigger the endstop
02:11 PM MarkusBec: ah is max lim in 10mV?
02:12 PM MarkusBec: 100mV
02:12 PM pcw_mesa: no its in the current units (mm/sec)
02:12 PM robotustra: mechanical endstops also can catch a chips
02:13 PM MarkusBec: OUTPUT_SCALE = 105
02:13 PM MarkusBec: OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT = -9
02:13 PM MarkusBec: OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT = 9
02:13 PM MarkusBec: with 600mm/min max my seting is
02:13 PM MarkusBec: and what do i have to change
02:14 PM pcw_mesa: right, that wil limit you to ~ 9mm/sec
02:14 PM pcw_mesa: OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT = -105
02:14 PM pcw_mesa: OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT = 105
02:15 PM MarkusBec: for 10V?
02:15 PM MarkusBec: 95 for 9V?
02:15 PM MarkusBec: the drives are +-9V fullscale
02:15 PM robotustra: I'm thinking to make endstops as a homing points too, so I wander if there will be enough of precision for mechanical endstors
02:16 PM robotustra: endstops
02:16 PM pcw_mesa: so 105 mm/sec is 9V?
02:17 PM MarkusBec: yes
02:17 PM `Wolf: IIRC one of the guys was getting < 5um with cherry micro switch
02:17 PM pcw_mesa: I would set the scale to velocity at 10V and the limits to velocity at 9V
02:20 PM robotustra: `Wolf, do you mean cherry MX keyboard switch?
02:20 PM `Wolf: no DB3 microswitch
02:21 PM robotustra: it's more than enough
02:21 PM robotustra: but optical has no moving parts
02:22 PM robotustra: they are virtually unbreakable
02:22 PM `Wolf: http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/833/DB_Series-1275385.pdf
02:22 PM `Wolf: and optical is somewhat cheap on eBay for keyance laser units
02:23 PM `Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/AelWIDc.jpg
02:23 PM robotustra: ah
02:23 PM robotustra: there is an issue
02:24 PM robotustra: you should wire all switch independently for optical, but you can wire mechanical switches in series
02:24 PM robotustra: and use 1 input pin
02:24 PM `Wolf: mostly for lazy wiring
02:25 PM roycroft: wolf
02:25 PM roycroft: i have a hot auction tip for you
02:25 PM roycroft: elvis' pink velvet private jet is up for auction
02:25 PM `Wolf: quit buying shit?
02:26 PM `Wolf: oh lol
02:26 PM `Wolf: no thanks
02:26 PM gregcnc: it's rough
02:26 PM roycroft: it has potential
02:26 PM roycroft: and it's parked at roswell
02:26 PM roycroft: you can go check out some ufos while you're checking out the plane
02:27 PM robotustra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x_QkGPCL18
02:30 PM robotustra: someone stuff is shit and your shit is stuff
02:30 PM `Wolf: lol
03:03 PM robotustra: it looks like cheap optical switches are analog
03:04 PM MrHindsight is now known as CaptHindsight
03:51 PM gloops: yes, buy less and cut more!
04:34 PM R2E4_bob_: Anyone know of a THC for use with current instead of voltage?
04:40 PM pcw_mesa: you can measure plasma current fairly easily with a Hall effect sensor but that not typically used for THC (since the plasma source is a constant current device)
04:53 PM Deejay: gn8
05:04 PM `Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/OM68T8y.jpg
05:04 PM andypugh: It lacks a certain something.
05:05 PM andypugh: But looks like a fun toy.
05:05 PM andypugh: Is it auto-cycling?
05:05 PM `Wolf: have a VFD on order, mag chuck is inside so I can clean it and fix the sloppy handle
05:05 PM `Wolf: no all manual
05:07 PM `Wolf: I’m thinking about single axis DRO on the Z and figure out where to hide some steppers to run the x/y
05:11 PM `Wolf: other then it could probably use the ways being scraped back in, I think this is the worst issue I have https://i.imgur.com/LMfI6tN.jpg
05:11 PM `Wolf: broken one shot oil line
05:12 PM robotustra: just got an orgasm from canada post https://imgur.com/EO142kb
05:13 PM `Wolf: mmm Chineseium
05:13 PM `Wolf: at least its a wedge type =)
05:14 PM robotustra: it is
05:14 PM `Wolf: mini size?
05:15 PM robotustra: BXA
05:15 PM `Wolf: nice
05:15 PM robotustra: the quality is pretty high
05:15 PM `Wolf: and here my lathe only has a AXA
05:15 PM robotustra: 5 standard holders and 2 xl holders
05:15 PM `Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/HlfgazG.jpg =D
05:16 PM robotustra: A is pretty small
05:16 PM robotustra: also chinisium lathe?
05:17 PM `Wolf: only a 12x37 lathe, Taiwan lathe
05:17 PM robotustra: 12x37 is big
05:17 PM `Wolf: AXA is 1/2” tooling
05:17 PM robotustra: it's recommended a size B or C
05:17 PM robotustra: ok
05:18 PM robotustra: I have 5/8 and 3/4 holders
05:18 PM `Wolf: its what came with the lathe when I got it
05:18 PM `Wolf: so I can complain, all but 3 holders are aloris
05:19 PM `Wolf: s/can/can’t
05:20 PM robotustra: got this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/BOSTAR-BXA-Wedge-Tool-Post-for-Lathe-10-15-Plus-2-Extra-XL-Oversize-Tool-Holders/281637827658
05:21 PM `Wolf: nice, I put the shars version of that (BXA) on my friends 13x40
05:22 PM robotustra: do you mean piston type?
05:22 PM `Wolf: same thing, wedge
05:22 PM `Wolf: just had shars sticker on it
05:23 PM robotustra: this wedge type BXA costs like 50% more at accusize.ca
05:23 PM robotustra: wtf
05:23 PM `Wolf: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shars-10-15-CNC-Lathe-BXA-Wedge-Quick-Change-Tool-Post-Set-250-222-Aloris-New/330525619157
05:25 PM robotustra: yeah, this one
05:26 PM robotustra: this holder can keep 250-20X tools and 250-22X XL size
05:26 PM `Wolf: guess accusize marks up because they dont have china etched on every part lol
05:27 PM robotustra: yeah, they hide it from eyes, but it's on the surface
05:29 PM `Wolf: funny part is you have to wonder if all that stuff comes out of one plant in china
05:30 PM MrHindsight: https://i.imgur.com/wVd5kqg.png what is the lower left tool?
05:31 PM `Wolf: something I haven’t seen before
05:33 PM MrHindsight: maybe for prying
05:33 PM MrHindsight: and the curved piece spreads the load so it doesn't dent the surface
05:36 PM `Wolf: looks sorta like a automotive panel tool
05:36 PM robotustra: scrapers?
05:37 PM nallar is now known as Ross
05:37 PM MrHindsight: yes, with the fork
06:10 PM robotustra: hazzy-lab, are you still on your phone?
06:18 PM roycroft: well i got the other screws cut off without burning up the second dremel
06:18 PM roycroft: i gave the dremel to my boss after
06:33 PM roycroft: does linuxcnc support the tormach height gauge with usb interface to populate the tool table?
06:41 PM hazzy-lab: robotustra: just got back in!
07:09 PM robotustra: hazzy-lab, could you please show your mockups on UI?
07:37 PM hazzy-lab: robotustra: Absolutely!
07:38 PM hazzy-lab: Still working mostly in the "backend development" but have a few (very) excremental screens in progress
07:39 PM * hazzy-lab takes some screenshots
07:41 PM hazzy-lab: Something kinda along the lines of the "Brender" GUI: https://i.imgur.com/Pzalegu.png
07:42 PM hazzy-lab: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis/34572-a-widescreen-blender-style-interface?start=230#113906
07:45 PM hazzy-lab: Some styling experiments by Lcvette on TurboProbe: https://i.imgur.com/o7IlL4l.png
07:46 PM hazzy-lab: All this is based on CMorley's Qt5VCP LinuxCNC branch, but with a lot of modifications
07:47 PM robotustra: looks much prettier than any existing ui
07:47 PM hazzy-lab: hopefully :)
07:47 PM hazzy-lab: ANd the idea it for it to be very easy to customize
07:48 PM hazzy-lab: It is all done in QtDesigner using custom widgets, so it is drag-n-drop design
07:48 PM robotustra: is it on the base of python?
07:48 PM hazzy-lab: Yes
07:48 PM robotustra: so you can export .ui files?
07:48 PM hazzy-lab: Though I hope to port some of the more calculation heavy widgets to c++
07:48 PM hazzy-lab: Yes
07:49 PM robotustra: I have a stupid question
07:49 PM hazzy-lab: And the UI files are loaded dynamically, so do not need to be compiled
07:49 PM robotustra: 1 sec
07:49 PM hazzy-lab: No question is stupid :P
07:50 PM robotustra: is the spooler code is so sophisticated?
07:50 PM robotustra: besides ui?
07:51 PM robotustra: or it's just a lot of stuff like press_button_X_event(){ }?
07:52 PM robotustra: set of parameters and get parameters?
07:52 PM roycroft: is aptos fairly usable? or is it more conceptual?
07:58 PM robotustra: if this UI will b used with touch screen I would place a tabs buttons on the bottom of the screen, the reason is 1) it's more ergonomic, you'll not need to move whole arm more 10 inch up. 2) when you press the top line you'll hide almost the whole screen by your hand.
08:02 PM robotustra: hazzy-lab, when it will be released?
08:21 PM hazzy-lab: robotustra: The code is pretty simple, you can find it here: https://gitlab.com/Hazzy/qtpyvcp
08:23 PM hazzy-lab: The TurboProbe code is here, it is extremely simple and can be used to call any LCNC sub, with args passed from the inputs: https://gitlab.com/Hazzy/TurboProbe
08:29 PM Lcvette[m]: Yeah come on in and give us a hand if you can/want we can use the coding help, tons of probing routines left to finish writing!!
08:30 PM robotustra: to code one should understand the concepts
08:30 PM robotustra: and truly beleive in linuxcnc religion
08:31 PM XXCoder: blessed be the CNC
08:31 PM robotustra: I'm newby in linuxcnc concepts, so I can't help right away
08:31 PM robotustra: may be in 1/2 of year from here
08:32 PM hazzy-lab: robotustra: The religion part we have, but I don't think any of us understand the concepts, so you would fit right in :D
08:33 PM robotustra: I usually do not try to fix things which I do not fully understand :)
08:33 PM robotustra: and I usually design the concepts of software I write before I write a line of code
08:34 PM jdh: I usually just start writing
08:34 PM robotustra: and if I modify sombodies code - first I do is 1) read 2)understand
08:34 PM robotustra: what the previous guy meant
08:34 PM jdh: other guy was an idiot
08:35 PM robotustra: haha
08:35 PM jdh: err, no that was my code
08:35 PM hazzy-lab: jdh: Exactly, LOL
08:35 PM Tom_shop: can you map a keyboard stroke to a pin?
08:35 PM robotustra: if it's working somehow and people use it - it's already a good programm
08:35 PM `Wolf: I’ll be happy to help… if you need clueless enduser testing
08:36 PM hazzy-lab: robotustra: I don't understand what I right, so you could not possibly, xD
08:36 PM hazzy-lab: robotustra: I am just messing with you
08:36 PM hazzy-lab: Tom_L: To a HAL pin? Sure!
08:37 PM jesseg: ziper, hey you still making that self driving, what was it again? spaceship?
08:37 PM Tom_shop: how?
08:37 PM Contract_Pilot: Sup..
08:37 PM Tom_shop: i'd like a button on my mpg to switch between F3 & F5 on the axis screen
08:38 PM robotustra: I do not understand basics yet, how the HAL is connected to UI
08:38 PM hazzy-lab: I wrote a universal HAL component, that can set any HAL pin without having to create and link up a component
08:39 PM `Wolf: hmm great, surface grinder calls for Vactra #3 which only comes in 5gal
08:39 PM hazzy-lab: Tom_L: Oh, you want a HAL pin to to trigger a key event?
08:39 PM Tom_shop: i was lucky enough to get a little from my bud
08:39 PM XXCoder: `Wolf: I wonder if you could ebay other 4 gallons or something
08:39 PM Tom_shop: hazzy-dev, yes
08:40 PM XXCoder: oh yes robotustra any luck with power management?
08:40 PM hazzy-lab: sounded like you wanted other way around, that is even easier
08:40 PM robotustra: XXCoder, no I just give up, I decided to install mesa in a PC which has a jitter 4000 ns
08:40 PM roycroft: vactra 2 will probably work ok
08:41 PM Tom_shop: just to switch between manual and mdi control screens
08:41 PM XXCoder: yeah kinda doubted laptop would work
08:41 PM XXCoder: also 4k dang! thought mine at 15k was pretty drat good
08:41 PM XXCoder: MESA likely helped
08:41 PM robotustra: I'll probably will use this laptop to control mill without feedback
08:41 PM `Wolf: umm when the thing calls for iso 150 you think 68 will do ok?
08:41 PM hazzy-lab: Tom_L: It seems like Axis might should have a hal pin for that, I can see that being a useful thing to be able to do
08:42 PM roycroft: just put the surface grinder in a cold room and use the vactra 2 :)
08:42 PM `Wolf: lol
08:42 PM XXCoder: roycroft: cold to make sure size is consient?
08:42 PM roycroft: to make it more viscous
08:42 PM XXCoder: ah different oil
08:43 PM Tom_shop: switching from the pendant would be handy
08:43 PM Tom_shop: vactra3 is thicker
08:44 PM roycroft: yes
08:44 PM roycroft: that's why i suggested the cold room :)
08:44 PM Tom_shop: i doubt it would matter that much unless you had vertical surfaces
08:44 PM roycroft: i agree
08:45 PM roycroft: a surface grinder does have a z axis though
08:45 PM Lcvette[m]: robotustra: if you know computer code... At all.. you know more than me...lol
08:45 PM Lcvette[m]: But it's not stopping me
08:45 PM roycroft: if you use the thinner oil just squirt it on more often
08:45 PM Tom_shop: roycroft, so does my mill and i'm using vactra 2 on it
08:45 PM robotustra: I know c/c++ but it's python, I don't want to touch python even with 10 feet stick
08:46 PM `Wolf: I think its calling for heavy because of the ways and keeping it from drain down in the prismatic
08:46 PM roycroft: but does your mill specify vactra 3?
08:46 PM Tom_shop: since i wrote the specs, yes :D
08:46 PM `Wolf: lol
08:46 PM roycroft: wolf
08:46 PM roycroft: vactra 2 works fine when vactra 3 i spec'ed
08:46 PM `Wolf: Manual says Vactra Extra Heavy L
08:46 PM roycroft: tom_shop just verified that
08:47 PM Tom_shop: either one sticks real well
08:47 PM roycroft: just use bar oil
08:47 PM Lcvette[m]: Hazzy and turboss have to deal with my made up words for things when I ask questions
08:47 PM `Wolf: surface grinder has like 30” of direct contact way on the X
08:47 PM robotustra: My understanding, if the whole concept is about realtiming - why not to use c/c++ everywhere?
08:48 PM Lcvette[m]: Is like playing chat charades
08:48 PM Lcvette[m]: I don't know what those are
08:49 PM roycroft: because it's not necessary, robotustra
08:49 PM Lcvette[m]: c/c++
08:49 PM Lcvette[m]: They talk about it though
08:49 PM Tom_shop: Lcvette[m], how's your mill coming along?
08:49 PM Lcvette[m]: Hazzy would know
08:50 PM Lcvette[m]: It's waiting on the new GUI and probing I'm working on! 😁
08:50 PM robotustra: I wander how the ideal GUI for cnc should look like
08:50 PM Tom_shop: like a haas control of course :D
08:51 PM robotustra: any pic?
08:51 PM Lcvette[m]: Blah
08:51 PM roycroft: you can get vactra 4 in gallons
08:51 PM `Wolf: one big green cycle start button
08:51 PM `Wolf: vactra 4 is ISO220
08:51 PM XXCoder: ehh
08:51 PM robotustra: with the scripture "MAKE ALL THE BEST!"
08:51 PM `Wolf: probably like snot in a jug
08:51 PM XXCoder: I would go huge ESTOP and small and secured start button
08:51 PM roycroft: use that and put your grinder in a room with the heat cranked up
08:52 PM XXCoder: button with metal jacket so it cant be "side-pressed"
08:52 PM roycroft: you want a big mushroom button for the e-stop
08:52 PM XXCoder: indeed
08:53 PM robotustra: I think that emergency button on the screen is kinda nonsense
08:53 PM Tom_shop: and like windows make sure it asks if you really want to push the button
08:53 PM robotustra: it's better to have real one :)
08:53 PM Lcvette[m]: Yeah mechanical mushroom, something you can smash in emergency
08:53 PM roycroft: there's no problem having an on-screen e-stop
08:53 PM Lcvette[m]: Tom_shop: hahaha
08:53 PM roycroft: but you need at least one or two real ones in addition
08:54 PM XXCoder: Tom_shop: lol
08:54 PM roycroft: you can have more than one e-stop
08:54 PM jesseg: but the human brain has a 1/4 second latency anyway... so even with a mushroom, whatever you do in response to an event will be 250mS after it happened anyway :P
08:54 PM robotustra: you SHOLUD have more that one e-stop
08:54 PM roycroft: and if your console is not connected to the machine it's nice to have one on both the console and the machine
08:54 PM roycroft: basically, you should have an e-stop within easy reach no matter where you are when operating the machine
08:54 PM Lcvette[m]: Unless you see something about to happen
08:55 PM Lcvette[m]: Which happens from time to time
08:55 PM jesseg: https://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sleep/sheep/reaction_version5.swf
08:56 PM XXCoder: wow actual flash
08:56 PM Lcvette[m]: Forget to check the parallel heights you used and worked height of of the vise
08:56 PM XXCoder: nonworking on my pc, first time I even needed flash support lol
08:56 PM Lcvette[m]: I've caught that a time or two..lol
08:57 PM Lcvette[m]: Missed it too..lol have the skinned vise Jaws to go with that lesson learned..lol
08:58 PM jesseg: yeah the flash brain time response game was made back in the days when everybody had flash..
08:58 PM jesseg: it's been around for over a decade I think
08:59 PM robotustra: I'm in the middle
08:59 PM robotustra: the reaction time is about 1.3 time worser then for real button
09:01 PM hazzy-lab: robotustra: PyQt is a C based python extension that wraps the native C++ Qt library, since the c calls the Qt methods directly very little speed it lost when using PyQt instead of Qt.
09:01 PM hazzy-lab: The advantage of using Python is tremendous, as development is much faster and the standard library is very large. In some cases PyQt apps preform better then C++ apps because it is easier to optimize
09:02 PM hazzy-lab: Same way PyPython can out-perform CPython ..
09:03 PM robotustra: the problem in python that it has 100500 versions and the code written today probably will not work in the next version of python
09:03 PM robotustra: and the new version of python will come out BEFORE you finish the GUI :)
09:03 PM roycroft: i'd say that python is more portable between versions than php, and much, much more than perl
09:04 PM hazzy-lab: Only version common now are 2.7 and 3, and most code will run on either
09:04 PM hazzy-lab: roycroft: For sure!!
09:04 PM robotustra: I don't like languages which change the syntax from version to version :)
09:05 PM hazzy-lab: But we are stuck with Py2.7 since this is what LCNC uses
09:05 PM roycroft: stay away from huan languages then
09:05 PM robotustra: that's it
09:05 PM roycroft: human
09:05 PM XXCoder: worse one is marlin, they change settings names each version
09:05 PM roycroft: english syntax has changed dramatially over the years
09:05 PM XXCoder: so your old configuration file? rewrite
09:06 PM hazzy-lab: XXCoder: I know, its a pain. I don't update anymore, lol
09:06 PM robotustra: grammer of English didn't change a lot in the latest 300 years
09:06 PM roycroft: it's very rapidly changing right now, actually
09:06 PM robotustra: written chinise didn't change much for a latest 2000 years
09:07 PM roycroft: using an apostrophe for plural noun's is very common, for example
09:07 PM robotustra: lexics, not grammer
09:07 PM roycroft: and when i was a kid i'd have been thrown out of school if i ever did that
09:07 PM robotustra: how old is python?
09:07 PM roycroft: ask monty
09:08 PM roycroft: he knows
09:08 PM hazzy-lab: 1990
09:08 PM hazzy-lab: LOL
09:08 PM roycroft: the language was named after monty python
09:08 PM robotustra: https://www.quora.com/Which-programming-language-is-going-to-be-the-craze-in-2020-Whats-the-role-of-Python-in-it
09:09 PM robotustra: I like only 2 languages: C and Fortran
09:09 PM hazzy-lab: There are some pretty funny references to monty python in the python docs ...
09:09 PM hazzy-lab: robotustra: I like Fortran too!!
09:09 PM hazzy-lab: and smalltalk!!!
09:09 PM robotustra: I know pascal
09:10 PM roycroft: i learned pascal on an apple ii and a vax/vms system
09:10 PM hazzy-lab: robotustra: I think of python as a modern Fortran
09:10 PM robotustra: deny
09:10 PM roycroft: i learned fortran on an ibm 360 mainframe
09:10 PM robotustra: python will die in 5 years from here
09:10 PM hazzy-lab: There are amazing scientific libraries for python
09:10 PM hazzy-lab: Nope
09:10 PM jdh: I wrote fortran today
09:10 PM roycroft: python will be around for another 30 yars
09:10 PM robotustra: I'm a fortuneteller from future
09:10 PM jdh: found a 15 year old bug
09:11 PM Frank_10: lol
09:11 PM hazzy-lab: 2.7 will be around for 10-15 more years at least
09:11 PM robotustra: I wish win xp to be more 15-20 years
09:13 PM robotustra: so, if I'll not be so lazy or busy the nearest 2 years I'll write my own GUI in c++/qt for linux cnc
09:13 PM roycroft: and speaking of old languages
09:14 PM roycroft: i asked earlier if anone knew if aptos was useful
09:14 PM roycroft: there are more folks around now than then
09:14 PM roycroft: so i'll ask again :)
09:14 PM robotustra: what is aptos?
09:14 PM roycroft: there was a release not too long ago, so it's not a stagnant project
09:14 PM hazzy-lab: Did you hear that guido is leaving as the BDFL?
09:14 PM roycroft: it's an apt to gcode translator
09:15 PM Frank_10: sorry to interrupt, im having issues with my x axis, have a servo that goes 3000rpm and im using only about 1/10 of the speed. i need 10:1 reduction
09:15 PM hazzy-lab: roycroft: interesting
09:15 PM Lcvette[m]: Wow look at all the coders in here
09:15 PM Frank_10: have you ever seen a dual stage belt reduction on cnc?
09:16 PM roycroft: i'm designing some parts right now that really don't need to be drawn up in cad
09:16 PM roycroft: at least not in 3d cad
09:16 PM robotustra: Frank_10, for stepper?
09:16 PM hazzy-lab: Lcvette[m]: You will join the ranks soon (wait, you know QSS, so already have :D)
09:16 PM Lcvette[m]: I bet we could hang out 20 probing routines in like 45 minutes
09:16 PM roycroft: i think they could be described in apt very easily
09:17 PM Lcvette[m]: Which one is was?
09:17 PM Lcvette[m]: Qss?
09:17 PM Lcvette[m]: Oh, the screen style one?
09:17 PM hazzy-lab: Yes!
09:17 PM hazzy-lab: (you already forgot the name :( )
09:17 PM hazzy-lab: xD
09:18 PM Frank_10: robotustra: for servo
09:18 PM Lcvette[m]: You guys throw do many acronyms around I get confused
09:18 PM hazzy-lab: Frank_10: are you sure you can't do it in one reduction?
09:19 PM Frank_10: the big pulley would end up beeing 400mm diameter or about 16 inch
09:19 PM hazzy-lab: Lcvette[m]: They are all TLAs, should be easy
09:19 PM robotustra: Frank_10, I did one stage 1:3 for cnc mill, and will do 1:2 reduction
09:19 PM Frank_10: i need 1:10
09:19 PM XXCoder: "what contracption is everyone on? I currently only have sex at night when sper5ms asleep. just don't want another baby." ugggh
09:19 PM andypugh: robotustra: My preferred Chinesium toolposts are http://www.createtool.com/list.asp?cid=33
09:19 PM Lcvette[m]: Tla's?
09:20 PM robotustra: for the driving spindle I'll use 2 stage reduction with timing belts 1:4 and 1:2, 1:8 total reduction
09:20 PM hazzy-lab: Lcvette[m]: three letter acronyms
09:20 PM hazzy-lab: sorry
09:20 PM hazzy-lab: Could not resist
09:20 PM Lcvette[m]: What's the big software?
09:21 PM robotustra: Frank_10, like here https://imgur.com/73STFfW
09:21 PM robotustra: I think 1:10 is doable
09:21 PM Lcvette[m]: Qty
09:21 PM XXCoder: for extra geeky ones, go for recrusive acronyms, like WINE
09:21 PM Lcvette[m]: With the pallette
09:21 PM Frank_10: i see, what are your pulleys pitch?
09:21 PM R2E4_bob: Hi all
09:21 PM Lcvette[m]: Smiley face icon one
09:21 PM robotustra: andypugh, interesting toolpost
09:22 PM andypugh: It’s a decent copy of the Swiss Multifix
09:22 PM robotustra: Frank_10, this one is HTD 5m
09:22 PM robotustra: 5mm
09:22 PM Frank_10: robotustra: i would like to think so; im just looking for info about backlash and precision, but cant find much
09:22 PM robotustra: but for servos you can use 3mm pitch
09:22 PM hazzy-lab: andypugh: Those prices are good too
09:23 PM ziper: jesseg, just a boat
09:23 PM Frank_10: im using L pitch right now 40 to 16 teeth about 2.5 reduction and the big pulley is like 6 inch diameter
09:23 PM robotustra: Frank_10, usually if the tension is ok you'll not have any lashbacks on timing belts
09:23 PM Lcvette[m]: QTDesigner... Had to get out of the recliner to go check
09:24 PM robotustra: Frank_10, you can have more lashes on your bearings and screw
09:25 PM robotustra: pulleys have big diameter - if you have some lashes there the angular rotation is minimal
09:25 PM robotustra: so, it' really doesn't give much backlash
09:27 PM Frank_10: yeah i think the backlash is in the rack and pinion thou, but still im hoping 2 belts dont give me problems with tensioning
09:27 PM Frank_10: tension
09:27 PM Frank_10: lol
09:29 PM robotustra: andypugh, but here I have 2 fixed positions at 90 degree, and your's have only one postion, ot it can rotate?
09:29 PM robotustra: with the fixed angles?
09:30 PM andypugh: The Multifix can be put in any of 40 positions
09:30 PM robotustra: ok
09:30 PM andypugh: The clamping thingy is free to rotate
09:30 PM robotustra: it means that it has built in indexer?
09:30 PM jesseg: ziper, oh yeah cool! well do tell more! Closest thing I did was a GPS guided sprinkler system but it was slow moving. http://videoflier.com/movies/1473893230982110482996
09:31 PM andypugh: robotustra: Basically, and the repeatability is good.
09:32 PM andypugh: Not sure how good Aloris is (should be good)
09:32 PM ziper: jesseg, ok, basically what I had in mind was to have a set of waypoints. Maybe 3 or 4, to keep it in the best prevailing wind conditions. It could take its current location, compare to the next waypoint, and then use a PID between that bearing and a magnetic bearing to steer
09:32 PM SKiTZO: Hello. So I have had my emco sitting in the garage for 4.5 years
09:32 PM SKiTZO: rusting and falling appart
09:32 PM andypugh: The popular one in the UK is Dickson, and whilst they are good, repeatability is not great (but then that isn’t part of their spec)
09:33 PM SKiTZO: And now I am finally going to fix it up :)
09:33 PM andypugh: Great.
09:33 PM robotustra: andypugh, anyway, I'm planning to use this toolpost until I make an automatic toolchanger :)
09:33 PM andypugh: I just fixed “carousel” to work with Emco tool changers.
09:33 PM andypugh: You can be my guinea pig.
09:33 PM SKiTZO: :D my machine doesnt have carousel. it is a tiny one :D
09:33 PM SKiTZO: F1P
09:34 PM SKiTZO: I have two actually
09:34 PM andypugh: Ah, pity
09:34 PM SKiTZO: Otherwise I would be glad to help
09:34 PM robotustra: andypugh, did you make a toolchanger?
09:34 PM andypugh: I used to use a tiny one with a silicon carbide saw in place of the chick to make mocroscope specimens.
09:36 PM SKiTZO: My machjine uses 3 x NEMA 23 size motors for the axis. The original motors were 5-phase step motors which are a pain to find drivers for
09:36 PM andypugh: robotustra: No. Which is why my toolchanger component gets developed sporadically, basically any time I find myself faces with a toolchanger it can’t handle. Last weekend it was a Denford ORAC that had a tool on every edge, and needed a reverse pulse to lock.
09:36 PM SKiTZO: *machine
09:37 PM andypugh: The 5-phase steppers are pretty good, by all accounts (other than driver problems)
09:37 PM SKiTZO: andypugh, I know. I have the original drivers, but I am clusless if I can hijack them somehow
09:37 PM andypugh: NEMA 23 isn’t that tiny, I ran a 9x30 lathe on NEMA 23 and it made good parts.
09:38 PM Tom_shop: fairly cheap too
09:39 PM robotustra: I will use chinese servos on the base of nema23
09:39 PM robotustra: with 1:2 belt reduction
09:41 PM robotustra: hm, I like EMCO toolchanger design
09:42 PM robotustra: but I can't fabricate so thick plate at home
09:42 PM SKiTZO: I am completely new to linuxcnc, and so far my understanding is that it is quite low level, right? It does not make sense to use with "fully integrated" servos like clearpath
09:43 PM robotustra: why not
09:43 PM SKiTZO: So if I was to find an alternative, what would be the "right" way to go about it with lcnc?
09:43 PM robotustra: I'll use fully integrated
09:43 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, what are you building?
09:43 PM SKiTZO: I am retrofitting cnc mill
09:44 PM SKiTZO: and looking at options
09:44 PM SKiTZO: what would be the best alternative
09:44 PM SKiTZO: I could just smack a bunch of cheap steppers in there, but I want to know what options exist
09:45 PM SKiTZO: and I don't know what the limitations of Lcnc are
09:45 PM robotustra: as you told, Drivers+steppers, or fully integrated servos
09:45 PM robotustra: there is no limitation, you can drive both
09:45 PM SKiTZO: ok so what kind of control interface?
09:45 PM SKiTZO: step+directio0n?
09:45 PM robotustra: yes
09:45 PM SKiTZO: are there any other?
09:45 PM andypugh: LinuxCNC can drive anything, eith the only exception being ig you put USB in the loop somewhere
09:46 PM andypugh: The classical interface for servos is +/-10V analog velocity command.
09:46 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, is there any other way to drive steppers or servos?
09:46 PM SKiTZO: yes
09:46 PM SKiTZO: clearpath servos offer an API
09:46 PM robotustra: name it
09:47 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, yeah you can feed commands through uart
09:47 PM robotustra: but it's not a real time stuff
09:47 PM andypugh: But LinuxCNC can (and is) control systems from analogue voltage command to digital-all-the-way serial command.
09:47 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, there is another similar serial steppers
09:47 PM andypugh: All my servos are controlled by serial.
09:48 PM robotustra: chinisium
09:48 PM andypugh: (I have 5 x Mesa 8i20 and 1 x STMBL drive spread over 2 machines)
09:48 PM Tom_shop: andypugh, what board do you use for the +-10v?
09:49 PM andypugh: Tom_shop: I don’t, but the Mesa 7i77 is aimed square at that application (And, I think, the 7i33)
09:49 PM Tom_shop: ok
09:49 PM jesseg: ziper, sounds like a start. I ended up with a bit of geometry going on so it could calculate its cross track error and steer towards that, and also so it would know when it went past the end of its current line segment even if it had significant cross track error. Is this for a sailboat you're doing or a motor boat? manned or unmanned?
09:49 PM Tom_shop: i'm looking for a single channel for my spindle control
09:49 PM ziper: unmanned sailbot
09:50 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1VWTXbgGg4
09:50 PM ziper: jesseg, would XTE matter if it is all open ocean? why not just sail toward the destiantion?
09:50 PM robotustra: this servos have both options, serial and dir/step
09:50 PM SKiTZO: OK. So let's say I go for servos with the +-10VDC interface. Then I would need a controller card that can control 3 motors in realtime, right? and then linuxcnc would interface to that using serial/paralelleport/pci/whatever
09:50 PM ziper: jesseg, BUT it will a be a wind turbine, so no tacking. tacking logic would be more interesting, but i want to win
09:51 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, that's where fun part starts, define please what is real time for you
09:51 PM jesseg: ziper, gotcha. There are islands. And other ships. If it's autonomous you probably want to make it dynamically route around other ships as discovered by AIS
09:51 PM ziper: yeah, that too
09:52 PM robotustra: if you want go really fast - I would not go with any uart
09:52 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, for instance what I'm building now is lcnc+mesa+servos
09:52 PM SKiTZO: robotustra, :D You are right, real-time is not the right word I guess. What I mean is, the motors will need to be in sync. So they will need to be attached to the same controller for best synchronization
09:53 PM Tom_shop: lcnc does synchronous moves
09:53 PM ziper: jesseg, i'm going to make the hull and propulsion and just outfit it with manual steering. and then go from there
09:53 PM ziper: jesseg, ps, nobody has ever succeded at it
09:53 PM jesseg: ziper, otherwise yeah I guess if you just keep it pointing at its next target you'll be heading in the right direction *until* you reach the end of that segment - if you're a couple miles cross track, and you are nearing the end of your current line segment, it'll be trying to nearly turn around backwards to go towards that point -- so it's important to detect when it's time to give up and go to the next further out point
09:54 PM jesseg: ziper, what is it exactly ? some contest?
09:54 PM ziper: one got about 3/4ths of the way before getting picked up by a fishing boat
09:54 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, there are 2 mainstream options for lcnc, is a BOB (breakout board) and mesa cards
09:54 PM ziper: yeah, microtransat challenge
09:54 PM ziper: no prize money or anything though
09:54 PM jesseg: ahh
09:54 PM SKiTZO: robotustra, mesa is pci card?
09:54 PM SKiTZO: and bob is paralelleport?
09:55 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, correct
09:55 PM Tom_shop: mesa cards come in several interfaces
09:55 PM robotustra: there is a variant of mesa to connect through ethernet
09:55 PM SKiTZO: PC 104
09:55 PM andypugh: SKiTZO: The F1P is probably perfectly OK with open-loop steppers. Servos are superior in many ways, but you might not really see that auperiority on a small. light machine.
09:55 PM jesseg: ziper, is this manned or unmanned? I don't understand the manual stearing if it's unmanned
09:56 PM SKiTZO: andypugh, hear you
09:56 PM ziper: un manned, but I will just put a radio rx to test it back and forth across the bay
09:56 PM andypugh: (Tormach use steppers on quite big machines, and those seem to work really quite well)
09:56 PM SKiTZO: But you know how it goes. Steppers are old news. I want to play with new expensive toys
09:57 PM ziper: jesseg, also, it needs some way to transmit position every 6 hours. only solution ive seen is iridium SBD. a couple hundred bucks, oh well
09:57 PM SKiTZO: so I can break them and go bankrupt
09:57 PM roycroft: servo bigots are as silly and uninformed as other bigots :)
09:57 PM jesseg: ziper, oh gotcha. Sounds like an awful lot of fun. And yes I have been eyeing that irridium modem that spark fun has.
09:57 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, you can try iHSS57
09:57 PM jesseg: oh hey I think I'm a servo bigot.
09:57 PM andypugh: (OK Tormach use big steppers, carefully chosen and high voltage drivers. But there is quite an overlap between good steppers and bad servos)
09:57 PM roycroft: a preference is not necessarily bigotry
09:58 PM ziper: jesseg, you arn't european are you?
09:58 PM ziper: I need someone to pick it up when its done
09:58 PM jesseg: ziper, nah I'm a yanky doodle (American)
09:58 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, how big is your machine?
09:58 PM ziper: or at least mop the water out and turn it around
09:58 PM andypugh: All my machines run servos all round. My problem is I am a _resolver_ bigot :-)
09:58 PM roycroft: "i like servos" is quite different from "all servers are bod. all steppers are shite"
09:58 PM roycroft: s/bod/god/
09:59 PM ziper: i'll hit some places up for sponsorship when it gets to that point
09:59 PM jesseg: ziper, add a bilge pump and make it turn itself around :D
09:59 PM SKiTZO: robotustra, http://www.lathes.co.uk/emcomiller/img26.jpg
09:59 PM ziper: no bilge pump, sealed
09:59 PM roycroft: personally, i bought steppers for my first cnc machine
10:00 PM roycroft: and i'll either replace them with servos down the road, or use servos in my next one
10:00 PM ziper: it would have enough reserve bouyancy to sail even with all compartmetns flooded, so long as the electronics stay intact (yeah right)
10:00 PM roycroft: and i'll figure out what i like
10:00 PM SKiTZO: I have steppers on my 3d printer.
10:00 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, what is the table size?
10:00 PM SKiTZO: I want to learn something new
10:00 PM jesseg: ziper, and beware of the crud. Seaweed, barnacles, tentacles, whatever is out there can grow on your boat unless you use an anti fowling paint, and they can slow it way down :D
10:00 PM SKiTZO: robotustra, 20cm travel in width
10:00 PM SKiTZO: I honestly cant remember the other dimensions
10:01 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, why don't you like clearpath?
10:01 PM andypugh: W00t! just got my second Instructable “Featured”
10:01 PM SKiTZO: robotustra, I like clearpath
10:01 PM Tom_shop: way to go andypugh
10:01 PM SKiTZO: I just don't know if I will get full effect of their features if I use them with LCNC
10:01 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, so they are reasonably epensive for you to try :)
10:02 PM SKiTZO: They are really expensive
10:02 PM SKiTZO: *check*
10:02 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, I'll use the cheap surrogate of clear path as I told :)
10:02 PM `Wolf: clear path are kinda self contained so you will get the full effect no matter what is spitting step/dir signal at them
10:03 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, define please what is "full potential"
10:03 PM jesseg: ziper, cool. Oh and I have developed some methods for protecting electronics from water: http://videoflier.com/movies/1527666825388537391103 -- it's a polycarbonate tube, with nylon slugs and ORings in the ends, then brass screws with orings as bulkhead -- they seal extremely well.
10:03 PM jesseg: Call me if you have more questions :P
10:03 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, what is the "full potential" of software which is in constant development?
10:04 PM jesseg: X+1
10:04 PM andypugh: My preferred tactic: 1) See what servos are cheap on eBay. 2) Buy them. 3) Hook them up to an STMBL drive. The only problem with STMBL is that there are only about 15 in the workd right now spare, and I have 6 of them.
10:04 PM ziper: jesseg, I think i will use this building method. I will let you know when its done and glassed http://smalltridesign.com/Trimaran-Articles/Construction-Methods/Tortured-Plywood-Hulls.html
10:04 PM andypugh: But, it is 4am and time for me to try to sleep.
10:05 PM jesseg: don't take too long bidding farewell there Andy :P
10:06 PM jesseg: ziper, looks like it's going to be classy. I'd use construction foam board and fiberglass - light, fast, nearly indestructible and definitely unsinkable.
10:06 PM SKiTZO: Thank you guys. I will buy cheapo steppers and get things working
10:07 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, buy good drivers and you'll get decent result
10:07 PM SKiTZO: robotustra, define what is "good drivers" please :D
10:08 PM Tom_shop: gecko
10:08 PM Tom_shop: they're the best
10:08 PM SKiTZO: why?
10:09 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, the good driver+chipo stepper could cost like good fully integrated servo
10:09 PM robotustra: but servo takes LESS space
10:09 PM `Wolf: mine dont…
10:09 PM Tom_shop: they're robust and have nice features
10:10 PM Tom_shop: idle current shutdown is a plus
10:10 PM Tom_shop: steppers run hottest when they're sitting still
10:10 PM jesseg: I think I might enjoy hybrid servo steppers
10:10 PM jesseg: if they were correctly implemented
10:10 PM robotustra: and wiring to steppers also heat up
10:11 PM `Wolf: not really https://i.imgur.com/XRTwasV.jpg
10:12 PM SKiTZO: I guess it depends on resistance
10:12 PM `Wolf: steppers do get warm tho
10:12 PM SKiTZO: original steppers had heatsinks
10:12 PM SKiTZO: they are so awesome
10:12 PM SKiTZO: it is a shame I cant drive them
10:13 PM `Wolf: why not?
10:13 PM SKiTZO: 5-phase
10:13 PM jesseg: ziper, however, water actually dissolves into and through all plastics slowly so you'll want to put desiccant packs in your electronics capsules. Or if you have room and weight budget, you could actually use glass canning jars with special lids to reduce your surface area of plastics.
10:13 PM SKiTZO: I dont know how to send step-dir to the driver cards
10:13 PM SKiTZO: or if they even work
10:13 PM ziper: jesseg, not all plastics
10:13 PM SKiTZO: Lack of documentation
10:13 PM jesseg: ziper, excellent, tell me what you're going to use and I want to use it too!
10:14 PM `Wolf: lack of docs is always fun with surplus stuff
10:14 PM ziper: epoxy resin
10:15 PM jesseg: ziper, hrm, like what kind exactly?
10:15 PM ziper: like the kind they build boats with
10:15 PM SKiTZO: So maybe I could just buy some kit with gecko+3 steppers + psu + cables
10:15 PM ziper: west systems and suck
10:15 PM SKiTZO: and get the thing working
10:15 PM ziper: such
10:15 PM SKiTZO: and then when I am a pro I can upgrade
10:16 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, if you want to become a pro it's better to hack these 5-phase servos
10:16 PM robotustra: stepers
10:16 PM SKiTZO: robotustra,
10:16 PM SKiTZO: I will need some help then
10:17 PM robotustra: most probably you'll just need to make some generators
10:17 PM `Wolf: robotustra: servo takes up less space? https://i.imgur.com/HhLt3Qo.jpg
10:17 PM robotustra: `Wolf, oh you kidding me
10:18 PM `Wolf: =D
10:18 PM robotustra: it's a POWERFUL servo
10:18 PM jesseg: ziper, you might check - it seems cured epoxy is also permeable to water. I mean the boat won't sink -- but the electronics could become damp if in a sealed compartment.
10:19 PM jesseg: Truly waterproofing electronics is infinitely more complex and difficult than people realize :D
10:19 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, could you tell me what stepper do you have?
10:19 PM robotustra: the model
10:19 PM ziper: jesseg, I don't believe it, because an epoxy coated piece of a wood wil NOT rot - while one with even a small area not coated will
10:19 PM SKiTZO: robotustra, yes give me a minute , I will show you
10:20 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, there are plenty of information about 5 phase steppers actually https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTMFEyk5ghI
10:20 PM `Wolf: robotustra: only a 5.2N-m servo
10:20 PM jesseg: ziper, fair enough :D But remember, just keeping bacteria off the wood can also prevent decay, even if it's soaking wet.
10:20 PM robotustra: if you know that it's a 5 phase - it's already PLENTY of info :)
10:21 PM robotustra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTMFEyk5ghI
10:21 PM jesseg: I have an old CNC German Aristograph that uses 5 phase steppers
10:21 PM `Wolf: oops 9.45N-m peak
10:22 PM SKiTZO: robotustra, I know it is 5-phase. And I have learned how it works
10:22 PM SKiTZO: And it is better in many ways than 2/4 phase ones
10:22 PM SKiTZO: more torq , less vibrations, more steps per degree etc
10:22 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, true, becaus it should less vibrate
10:22 PM SKiTZO: but at the cost of more complex driver
10:22 PM robotustra: it's a hybrid
10:23 PM SKiTZO: motor has 10 wires + gnd
10:23 PM robotustra: but why can't you use it? you don't have drivers?
10:23 PM robotustra: and?
10:23 PM SKiTZO: which means it is not the 5 wire kind
10:23 PM robotustra: and?
10:23 PM SKiTZO: it can be configured in bot star and .. the other orientation
10:23 PM robotustra: no
10:23 PM SKiTZO: I have driver. I just don't know how to look at the PCB and figure out where step+dir is supposed to go
10:24 PM robotustra: 1 sec
10:24 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, https://www.orientalmotor.com/stepper-motors/technology/2-phase-vs-5-phase-stepper-motors.html
10:24 PM robotustra: watch this
10:24 PM robotustra: by the end of the page
10:25 PM robotustra: there are 5 bridges, 10 transistors
10:25 PM robotustra: it shows the diagram how it works
10:25 PM SKiTZO: yes
10:25 PM SKiTZO: identified
10:27 PM SKiTZO: I don't know the voltage the motors run at
10:27 PM SKiTZO: how can I figure that out?
10:27 PM robotustra: yes you can
10:27 PM SKiTZO: I mean mac voltage
10:27 PM SKiTZO: max
10:28 PM robotustra: measure the resistance of the coil
10:28 PM robotustra: and find out the max torque
10:29 PM SKiTZO: How do I do that?
10:29 PM robotustra: you can estimate the voltage by putting some current on one phase and trying to rotate it
10:29 PM SKiTZO: I know how to measure resistance, but max torque
10:29 PM robotustra: and see how it's warm up
10:29 PM robotustra: let's say run 0.5-1A
10:29 PM roycroft: just crank the voltage up until the blue smoke escapes, then turn it down a bit, and you'll know that's where you should have stopped
10:30 PM robotustra: for beginning
10:30 PM robotustra: :)
10:30 PM SKiTZO: :P
10:30 PM robotustra: if you'll burn one phase - you still have 4
10:30 PM robotustra: without load you can play with low voltages
10:31 PM robotustra: it doesn't really matter
10:31 PM SKiTZO: this reminds me in the olden days when we used to tell script kiddies to press alt+f4 to learn how to hack
10:31 PM robotustra: after you'll make a working driver you can increase the voltage and measure the temperature
10:32 PM roycroft: or type /sign to sign into the channel to get chanops
10:32 PM robotustra: it should be warm but not hot
10:32 PM roycroft: my first dremel of the day was almost too hot to hold after only a couple minutes
10:32 PM jesseg: SKiTZO, I remember the first time I fell for that. It was "ALERT! You have email. Press ALT+F4 to read it." well, it just happens that I had pine email client running on text console F4 -- so when I pressed it, there my mail was.. I was astounded.
10:32 PM SKiTZO: Would it not be easier to deduct that info from the components on the driver pcb?
10:33 PM jesseg: SKiTZO, how many ohms are the coils?
10:33 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, I think the voltage is written on pcb
10:33 PM SKiTZO: I see pcb has two big ass 100V capacitors
10:34 PM SKiTZO: my multimeter is somewhere..
10:36 PM robotustra: no, caps can have much higher voltage than actual
10:36 PM robotustra: 2 -4 times
10:36 PM jesseg: but they usually don't because they cost more and are bigger :P
10:36 PM robotustra: true
10:36 PM jesseg: but in really high end stuff or home built then yeah you might see it
10:37 PM robotustra: but for pulsating stuff they must have 2-4 times higher voltages
10:37 PM jesseg: but the manufacturers do rate them for longer life at lower voltages below the "working voltage"
10:37 PM jesseg: they also rate them for pulse :P
10:38 PM robotustra: for these hybrid motors the voltage could be pretty high
10:39 PM jesseg: yeah if you're driving them as brushless DC motors or constant current then the voltage could be high
10:39 PM SKiTZO: coils are 3.5 -3.3 Ohm
10:39 PM robotustra: what is the power of the motor?
10:40 PM SKiTZO: There is no info on the motor
10:40 PM SKiTZO: no label
10:40 PM SKiTZO: no nothing
10:40 PM robotustra: ok, so dig the pcb then
10:40 PM SKiTZO: I will disassemble it see if something is inside
10:41 PM robotustra: it's quite low resistance, it means that the voltage on a phase can't be so high
10:41 PM jesseg: SKiTZO, ok great so at 5v, they'd draw like 1.5 amps, about 7.5W, and they will get nice and warm. Wouldn't want to do it for too long, but short term testing OK.
10:42 PM SKiTZO: I can just start low and ramp up
10:42 PM jesseg: However, they commonly drive them at up to 12-24v but in constant current mode to allow them to run fast without burning up.
10:42 PM SKiTZO: I dont know how my puny chinesium benk top psu will manage though
10:42 PM robotustra: yeah, I would not put more that 3 volts for idle motor to test
10:43 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, you can set let say 1-2V with current limit to 2 amps and try to rotate the shaft by hands
10:44 PM robotustra: to see if it holds
10:44 PM jesseg: actually if your PSU lets you set current limit to 1A then you can set the voltage as high as you want :P
10:44 PM robotustra: true
10:44 PM SKiTZO: It has CC and CV
10:45 PM SKiTZO: But I don't really know how to judge the results
10:45 PM robotustra: but for static current it's better not to be more than 5v
10:45 PM SKiTZO: If I set 1 A and 5V
10:46 PM jesseg: yeah that's fine SKiTZO
10:46 PM SKiTZO: on one phase. It should hold that position
10:46 PM jesseg: yeah
10:46 PM SKiTZO: without getting hot, just warm
10:46 PM SKiTZO: and that means...
10:46 PM robotustra: but don't do it for a long time
10:46 PM SKiTZO: tadaaa
10:46 PM SKiTZO: what
10:46 PM robotustra: 2-5 secs
10:46 PM SKiTZO: I will start much lower
10:46 PM robotustra: 2 volts
10:46 PM jesseg: robotustra, do you really think 3.3w on a phase is dangerous? what size of motor is this?
10:47 PM jesseg: 1A limits it to one watt per ohm :D
10:47 PM robotustra: no, but ...
10:47 PM robotustra: he will not be able to rotate the saft
10:47 PM robotustra: shaft
10:47 PM jesseg: are we talking a little stepper motor out of an old floppy drive? :D
10:49 PM robotustra: no, we are talking about big powerful alien motor from aliens with no documentation
10:49 PM robotustra: 2-5 V are ok
10:49 PM jesseg: oh yeah 1A is safe
10:51 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, or you can just go and replace your drivers with: http://www.netmotion.com/htm_files/mc_drivers_5ph1.htm
10:51 PM SKiTZO: Yah.
10:52 PM SKiTZO: engaging safety squints :D:D
10:52 PM robotustra: we are far from your table, so you can start
10:54 PM SKiTZO: ok I think the volt meter on my psu is broken
10:54 PM SKiTZO: I am using multimeter to check
10:55 PM SKiTZO: I put .3 A and 6 V
10:55 PM SKiTZO: it holds a step
10:55 PM SKiTZO: but voltmeter drops to 1 V
10:55 PM SKiTZO: or 1.something
10:56 PM SKiTZO: The holding force is not strong
10:56 PM SKiTZO: I can move it around
10:56 PM SKiTZO: but it is there
10:56 PM SKiTZO: no heat no smoke :D
10:56 PM SKiTZO: upping my amp to 1.0
10:57 PM robotustra: ok
10:57 PM SKiTZO: much stronger holding force
10:57 PM SKiTZO: but I can still move it with my fingers
10:57 PM SKiTZO: no heat or smoke
10:58 PM SKiTZO: should I try higher violt or higher amp?
10:58 PM robotustra: try to keep this current like 20-30 secs and touch it to see if it's warming up
10:58 PM SKiTZO: ok
10:58 PM jesseg: SKiTZO, btw, a stepper motors allowable constant energy loss is a function of its surface area. So if you find another stepper that has similar surface area, find out how many watts its rated at and that will be very similar to yours.
10:58 PM robotustra: if not you can increase current a little bit
11:00 PM robotustra: if the motor can keep the constant current for a minute and do not warm up - it's about the working current
11:01 PM SKiTZO: It is not warm at all
11:01 PM SKiTZO: ut is showing 3 V and 1 amp
11:01 PM SKiTZO: its been atleast a minute
11:01 PM robotustra: double it
11:01 PM SKiTZO: double what?
11:01 PM robotustra: voltage
11:01 PM robotustra: and current limit
11:01 PM robotustra: 6V 2 A
11:01 PM SKiTZO: I think it is limit for my psu
11:01 PM SKiTZO: it only goes to 3 then stops
11:02 PM robotustra: you PSU can give only 1A
11:02 PM robotustra: ?
11:02 PM SKiTZO: I think it is 3 A
11:03 PM SKiTZO: at 32V
11:03 PM robotustra: so, just put 6V
11:03 PM robotustra: yet
11:03 PM SKiTZO: hm. but if I turn up volt it stops at 3
11:03 PM robotustra: and repeat all procedures described
11:04 PM robotustra: it's besause you have to instrease the current limin
11:04 PM robotustra: limit
11:04 PM SKiTZO: CC light is on
11:04 PM SKiTZO: so I can do 1.25 maybe
11:05 PM SKiTZO: volt increased to 3.6
11:05 PM robotustra: it means that your PSU is tomato
11:05 PM SKiTZO: I guess
11:05 PM SKiTZO: RIP psu
11:05 PM SKiTZO: I wioll miss you
11:05 PM robotustra: find more juisy one
11:05 PM SKiTZO: heh I have many but only constant
11:05 PM SKiTZO: 40amp 24v?
11:06 PM SKiTZO: It will be nice "how I made a 5-phase rocket"
11:06 PM SKiTZO: video
11:06 PM jesseg: SKiTZO, well if you have a 3 amp 24v light bulb you can put it in series to limit the current
11:06 PM robotustra: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=PSU+30V+10A+110V&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=PSU+30V+10A
11:07 PM robotustra: no, don't put big current yet
11:07 PM SKiTZO: 1.3 amp and 4 volt
11:07 PM SKiTZO: still not hot
11:07 PM robotustra: looks like you motor can handle about 4A
11:07 PM robotustra: and 3*4 = 12
11:08 PM robotustra: 3 ohm * 4 A = 12V
11:08 PM jesseg: and 4A*12V=48W
11:08 PM robotustra: looks like this is about the working voltage
11:08 PM robotustra: it's reasonable power
11:08 PM jesseg: how many watts per square inch is that?
11:08 PM jesseg: of steel surface area
11:09 PM robotustra: what is the size of the motor
11:09 PM jesseg: iron surface area :P
11:09 PM jesseg: I'm not sure I'd want all 48 watts being generated in a single phase for very long though
11:09 PM SKiTZO: hm..
11:09 PM SKiTZO: give me sec
11:09 PM robotustra: the lenght and diameter?
11:10 PM robotustra: I think that it's ok to play with it at 6V for experiments
11:10 PM SKiTZO: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=cylinder+h%3D5.5cm,d%3D6cm
11:10 PM SKiTZO: 160 cm²
11:11 PM jesseg: the end plates may not have good thermal conductivity to the iron core so you may want to just get the surface area of the explosed iron
11:11 PM jesseg: or is it in an aluminum heatsink case?
11:12 PM SKiTZO: it has aluminium heatsink
11:12 PM SKiTZO: I removed it
11:12 PM SKiTZO: quite beefy
11:12 PM SKiTZO: case is steel
11:12 PM SKiTZO: it is cylindrical in shape
11:12 PM robotustra: good
11:12 PM SKiTZO: not the square shape as is typical for 2/4-phase
11:13 PM robotustra: so don't put much current without heat sink then
11:13 PM SKiTZO: I put 2 amp + 6 V and it does not get warm
11:13 PM SKiTZO: over 1 min
11:13 PM jesseg: cool
11:13 PM jesseg: :P
11:13 PM robotustra: can you rotate the shaft?
11:13 PM SKiTZO: robotustra, yes but increasingly hard with increased power
11:13 PM SKiTZO: actuqlly it is getting slightly warm
11:14 PM SKiTZO: after a few min
11:14 PM robotustra: OK
11:14 PM robotustra: it means that estimation for voltage-current have sense
11:14 PM SKiTZO: so 4 amp + 48 v
11:14 PM SKiTZO: -ish
11:14 PM robotustra: no
11:14 PM robotustra: 12V
11:15 PM robotustra: 12V, 4A
11:15 PM SKiTZO: sorry
11:15 PM SKiTZO: tes
11:15 PM robotustra: 48 Watt
11:15 PM jesseg: SKiTZO, so here's the rub: when you disconnect the power supply, connect a volt meter to the motor, and turn it at a constant rate that you deem to be your maximum design RPM. Take note of the voltage generated. Your drive voltage will need to be about 12 volts *above* that voltage to maintain usable torque at that speed.
11:15 PM robotustra: now you can find right driver of build your own
11:15 PM jesseg: ps, set volt meter to AC
11:16 PM robotustra: I don't think he can generate any consistent motion without pulley
11:17 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, do you have pulley on it?
11:17 PM SKiTZO: I could just use another motor
11:17 PM jesseg: oh I guess he'd need an oscilloscope
11:17 PM SKiTZO: there is a belt
11:17 PM SKiTZO: I think there is a ratio in the belt
11:17 PM SKiTZO: but I honestly dont know what rpm I would need
11:17 PM SKiTZO: I could just increase rpm until i get 12 v
11:17 PM robotustra: wait
11:18 PM SKiTZO: ah
11:18 PM SKiTZO: nvm
11:18 PM SKiTZO: the belt is part of machine not motor
11:18 PM robotustra: SKiTZO, now explain us why can't you use your system now?
11:18 PM SKiTZO: I didnt mean this motor
11:18 PM SKiTZO: lol confuxion
11:18 PM robotustra: is the driver dead?
11:18 PM SKiTZO: I meant I have another cheap stepper I can use to generate rpm
11:18 PM SKiTZO: using arduino with step driver
11:19 PM SKiTZO: instead of pulley
11:19 PM SKiTZO: well. The driver is part of some 1984 contraption
11:19 PM SKiTZO: with ISA bus and intel 286 processors and what not
11:19 PM SKiTZO: some kind of embedded monstrosity
11:19 PM SKiTZO: it probably cost the price of a car when it was new
11:20 PM SKiTZO: so the drivers slide into a backplane
11:20 PM SKiTZO: with a big connector
11:20 PM SKiTZO: I dont know which kind of signals it receives
11:20 PM SKiTZO: I think it is very low level
11:20 PM SKiTZO: like pulse per phase
11:21 PM SKiTZO: the driver just converts that pulse to power
11:21 PM SKiTZO: with emphasis on "I think"
11:22 PM robotustra: scenario #1
11:22 PM robotustra: leave steppers, get new drivers
11:22 PM robotustra: and + PC + lcnc
11:23 PM robotustra: if you know the parameters of your motor, and you already know it - you can just get a modern driver
11:23 PM robotustra: and make control part yourself
11:25 PM SKiTZO: https://photos.app.goo.gl/dLmS8joCEvHKqTtUA
11:25 PM SKiTZO: controller
11:25 PM robotustra: for old machinery it's cheaper to throw out old controller and replace it with new one
11:26 PM SKiTZO: Yes. Problem was finding a suitable driver
11:26 PM SKiTZO: I will buy one and see if it works :)
11:26 PM robotustra: wait
11:26 PM robotustra: it looks pretty ok
11:26 PM SKiTZO: Maybe I can buy a variable one and ramp it up until it gets warm
11:27 PM robotustra: you can try to drive this controller actually
11:28 PM robotustra: or just buy smaller one
11:28 PM SKiTZO: Was my assesment correct that there is one signal per phase as input to the driver=?
11:28 PM SKiTZO: That is what it looks like anyway
11:28 PM SKiTZO: I think step+dir to wave happens in another board
11:28 PM SKiTZO: this is just the low level stuff
11:31 PM jesseg: SKiTZO, what on earth did you salvage these steppers from?!
11:31 PM jesseg: Because my 5 phase steppers are in an old monstrosity that cost more than a car when it was new, and the drivers slide into a back plane, and it has a 286 type processor board
11:32 PM jesseg: although I don't think it has ISA
11:32 PM SKiTZO: It is.
11:32 PM jesseg: I mean I don't think mine has ISA.
11:32 PM jesseg: I'm sure yours does :P
11:32 PM SKiTZO: I ripped the firmware of the flash chips
11:32 PM SKiTZO: and blogged it here
11:32 PM robotustra: you need to make a board which accept step/dir and convert in into 5 controlling signals
11:32 PM SKiTZO: bog standard 3856 assembly popped out
11:33 PM SKiTZO: robotustra, arduino?
11:33 PM robotustra: for example yes
11:33 PM jesseg: SKiTZO, do you have the 5 phase driver boards?! If so, just reverse engineer them and use the system as designed :P
11:34 PM robotustra: I would go with arduino to drive THESE POWERFUL BUZ transistors
11:34 PM jesseg: SKiTZO, anyway, mine has like a 48v power supply, and a bunch of HUGE resistors to provide constant current to the steppers so they can step fast and yet they don't burn up when sitting locked rotor
11:34 PM SKiTZO: jesseg, you see I am not good enough to easily do that
11:34 PM SKiTZO: http://blog.octomy.org/2014/08/reading-emcotronic-m1-roms.html
11:35 PM SKiTZO: The machine has two intel 286 chips that I could identify
11:35 PM SKiTZO: one in main computer and one in graphics card
11:35 PM SKiTZO: (yes this thing has separate graphics card)
11:36 PM robotustra: I think such stuff should already be done by somebody
11:36 PM SKiTZO: robotustra, it was not, so I did it
11:36 PM robotustra: like dir/step -> 5 phase
11:36 PM SKiTZO: it was adventure
11:36 PM SKiTZO: ah
11:36 PM SKiTZO: yes for sure
11:36 PM SKiTZO: is it called wave generatioon or something like that?
11:36 PM robotustra: 12V, 4A,
11:37 PM robotustra: yeah
11:37 PM SKiTZO: Thanks alot for your help.
11:37 PM SKiTZO: It has been as long journey so far
11:37 PM robotustra: wave generator with the shift between phases 72 degree
11:37 PM SKiTZO: Inching closer t ohaving my mahcine working
11:37 PM robotustra: ok,
11:38 PM robotustra: good night
11:38 PM robotustra: go to bed
11:38 PM robotustra: bb
11:38 PM SKiTZO: I have a feeling I will be back
11:38 PM SKiTZO: good night
11:38 PM SKiTZO: or morning in my case
11:38 PM SKiTZO: but bedtime none the less
11:38 PM jesseg: Nighters :P
11:59 PM Tecan-: https://imgur.com/a/TidWjL1 much to do yet