#linuxcnc Logs

Jul 26 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:28 AM IchGucksLive: morning from germany
01:32 AM IchGucksLive: hottest day ever expected in europ
01:32 AM IchGucksLive: gloops, take a ice bath
01:32 AM IchGucksLive: im off till later
01:38 AM Contract_Pilot: Long time all
02:00 AM Contract_Pilot: Work Bench Nearly Done.. https://youtu.be/OCQQro2o9b0
02:13 AM Deejay: moin
04:17 AM mase: Is someone here making a living out of cnc
04:18 AM XXCoder: yo
04:19 AM XXCoder: pretty lot of us here does I think
04:19 AM mase: What are u doing
04:19 AM XXCoder: eating and chatting on irc
04:20 AM mase: Not nice at all :<
04:20 AM XXCoder: huh?
04:20 AM XXCoder: its not like im at work now :P
04:20 AM mase: What u do at work
04:20 AM mase: What are u machining
04:20 AM XXCoder: make parts
04:20 AM XXCoder: yeah thats rarely known lol
04:21 AM mase: show me parts of your work
04:21 AM XXCoder: cant
04:21 AM mase: Is it secret :D
04:21 AM XXCoder: well yes
04:21 AM XXCoder: well condidental designs but yes
04:22 AM mase: So I even want more to know :D
04:22 AM XXCoder: its boring
04:22 AM XXCoder: and hot as hell now
04:39 AM miss0r: I live from that and other stuff
04:39 AM miss0r: XXCoder: if you are in control of the entire process, it is not boring ;)
04:40 AM XXCoder: yeah most in here is umm jobber? im production machinist, one of very few from what I know of in here
04:40 AM miss0r: jobber ? :S
04:40 AM XXCoder: miss0r: im sure though I want to make artwork, just cant do with no room for machine :(
04:40 AM XXCoder: one who does many different one off runs
04:41 AM XXCoder: not sure what is right word for it
04:41 AM miss0r: yeah, I don't know the word for that either
04:42 AM miss0r: Export your art designs to me :) I will machine it for you :D
04:42 AM XXCoder: nah want to do everything myself :)
04:42 AM XXCoder: its hobby after all
04:42 AM miss0r: That is how my shop here started as well
04:42 AM miss0r: And I don't have alot of room in here :D
04:43 AM XXCoder: im sure still lots more room than my zero space :(
04:43 AM miss0r: At the moment I am running some parts that have a 2min machining time each. err; there are four parts that has to be moved 11 times in the setup with a 2 min run time on each setup.. *sigh*
04:43 AM miss0r: Is that what is is like being a production machinist?
04:44 AM XXCoder: multiple that by 100 then yeah
04:44 AM XXCoder: though very rarely need more than 2 or 3 steps
04:44 AM miss0r: man, I wish I had your patience...
04:44 AM XXCoder: I dont lol but I have certain cheat tool...
04:44 AM XXCoder: my kindle paperwhite 2
04:45 AM XXCoder: man it have paid for itself over thousand times by now.
04:45 AM miss0r: hehe, I hear'ya
04:45 AM XXCoder: we had 400 part runs that everyone could only make 19 parts a shift
04:45 AM miss0r: I just come in here wasting breath annoying people while stuff runs
04:46 AM miss0r: shit
04:46 AM XXCoder: its hardly worse one
04:46 AM miss0r: When a client asks me to do 50+ of something, I decline
04:46 AM XXCoder: the record is one where I sat on my ass for 6 hours
04:46 AM XXCoder: do something, then sit for 4 hours more then go home
04:46 AM XXCoder: man that was a nightmare even with kindle
04:46 AM miss0r: damn. I don't even have a chair down here
04:47 AM XXCoder: other side.. 750 parts in 10 hours
04:47 AM miss0r: But assuming this one goes as I plan, I have alot of work comming my way soon
04:47 AM miss0r: That is very nice
04:47 AM Loetmichel: miss0r: lucky you... i had to make 120 PSU enclosures lately... took a while ;)
04:47 AM miss0r: Loetmichel: Well, being your own boss has its benefits
04:47 AM XXCoder: 750 parts in 10 hours? no, no its not nice. its damned nightmare
04:48 AM miss0r: I would enjoy seing them come off the machine
04:48 AM miss0r: Perhaps not for more than 10 minuts though :D
04:48 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15332 <- like these
04:48 AM XXCoder: heh you would have sore arm of chronic mastruator.
04:49 AM XXCoder: I used drill constantly, I changed batteries 4 times
04:49 AM XXCoder: at last hour I was so tired I used another arm to hold my drill arm up
04:49 AM Loetmichel: ... being a lazy fu** i made it so that the CNC does 3 enclosures on a single sheet then stops so i can remove the parts and put a new sheet on... no tool change neccessary ,)
04:50 AM XXCoder: :)
04:50 AM miss0r: :]
04:50 AM miss0r: Lazy is what it is all about
04:50 AM miss0r: lazy = easy = profit?!
04:50 AM XXCoder: indeed. be very productive and lazy
04:51 AM miss0r: I decided long ago that I would rather earn less money on my parts & have them come out superb, rather than cut corners
04:52 AM miss0r: My model is working. Perhaps I make a little less overhear than my competitors, but I can be proud of my product(very important to me) and the client is happy as well.
04:52 AM XXCoder: yep its nice to have feedback loop
04:52 AM XXCoder: its how business lives
04:53 AM miss0r: Sure. Sometimes when I see what other shops around here sends out I have to supress a smile
04:53 AM miss0r: Some of it is not alot better than chinesium.
04:54 AM XXCoder: company i work at exported one job
04:54 AM miss0r: hell, I'm no godgiven expert at all, I taught myself how to do this stuff. But even I can see it is shit
04:54 AM XXCoder: what we got was chineseium made in usa
04:54 AM miss0r: No wonder china is catching up to us
04:54 AM XXCoder: theres.. disks that must have engrave on it
04:54 AM XXCoder: its sloped, outwards so its complex engrave
04:55 AM XXCoder: they gave us parts that was ... rippled on that slope
04:55 AM XXCoder: makes engrave nightmare
04:55 AM miss0r: Indeed
04:55 AM XXCoder: parallelism is super important also
04:55 AM miss0r: Depending on the engraver, but sure
04:55 AM XXCoder: way we does it, yeah
04:56 AM XXCoder: its inocel, very hard metal
04:56 AM XXCoder: we use 1/16 ball em to do it
04:56 AM miss0r: I have a floating engraver head for my desktop cnc. It can handle +/- 0.75mm on the surface
04:56 AM miss0r: Yeah, its good to have that parallel then :D
04:57 AM miss0r: meh.. I need to come up with a fixture for this next setup..
04:57 AM miss0r: The workpeices exceeds my travel limit.
04:58 AM XXCoder: using placement pins?
04:58 AM miss0r: I could do that
04:58 AM XXCoder: what direction at limit, xy?
04:58 AM miss0r: X
04:59 AM XXCoder: we use techogrip a lot at work
04:59 AM miss0r: what is that?
04:59 AM XXCoder: its pretty amazing system for gripping parts in repeatable way
04:59 AM XXCoder: https://www.radical-departures.net/articles/techni-grip-work-holding-system/
05:00 AM miss0r: looks... expensive
05:00 AM XXCoder: small one https://www.radical-departures.net/articles/techni-grip-work-holding-system/images/MVC.jpg few hundred bucks
05:00 AM miss0r: Need I remind you, theres only one to pay for stuff around here :D
05:00 AM XXCoder: the block itself is hmm 200? and those gripper parts ois $75 each
05:01 AM miss0r: That is not too bad actualy
05:01 AM miss0r: It looks like atleast another zero
05:01 AM XXCoder: yeah though concept is pretty simple you could make one
05:01 AM XXCoder: those holes dont go all way though
05:01 AM XXCoder: theres small part in center thats hole big enough for bolt to go though
05:01 AM XXCoder: on sides it can hold springs
05:02 AM XXCoder: bolt and finally 2 of clamps (it has keystone shape to grip part)
05:02 AM miss0r: hmm.. Doesn't sound too bad.
05:02 AM miss0r: I will have to make something like that at some point
05:02 AM XXCoder: in row on top you see bolts? its recessed unless you add special washer and its properly .01" out
05:03 AM miss0r: But at the moment I am going to jerryrig something for the concept part here
05:03 AM XXCoder: hole is .001" tolence, block should be nice finish with sides with .01 height and keystone
05:03 AM XXCoder: thats how it works basically
05:03 AM miss0r: KIS
05:03 AM XXCoder: yeah
05:04 AM miss0r: Looks nice
05:04 AM XXCoder: many jobs just use kurt jaws and custom jaws
05:04 AM XXCoder: but some jobs is amazing when using such fxture. expecially 4 axis or 5 axis
05:04 AM miss0r: Absolutly :]
05:05 AM miss0r: Unfortunatly for me I only have three axis to work with
05:05 AM miss0r: and I 'only' use a disella vise
05:05 AM XXCoder: yeah it really depends on job and machines
05:05 AM XXCoder: we have in least 20 techi-grip tombstones lol
05:06 AM miss0r: this one to be exact: https://www.globaltools.dk/vaerktoej/haandvaerktoej/holdevaerktoej/skruestik/prcisions-skruestik
05:06 AM miss0r: :o
05:06 AM XXCoder: man youre kurting for kurt vises ;)
05:07 AM miss0r: I have no idea what you mean ? :S
05:07 AM XXCoder: whaaaa https://www.mmsonline.com/products/clamping-system-automates-workholding-speeds-change-over
05:07 AM XXCoder: just making hurting/kurt pun joke
05:08 AM miss0r: ahh :)
05:08 AM XXCoder: kurt is very common ins business
05:08 AM miss0r: Yeah, when you cross the big pond. You don't seem them much around here
05:08 AM XXCoder: automated techino0grip is new
05:08 AM miss0r: Down boy!
05:09 AM XXCoder: dunno many job it takes a while on runtime so see no point on it
05:09 AM miss0r: I use erowa clamping system here
05:09 AM miss0r: for the EDM atleast. That is pretty fast, and very repeatable
05:10 AM XXCoder: zero point claming system?
05:11 AM miss0r: sadly I could only fine a picture from ali express: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/80-EROWA-fixture-square-EDM-spark-machine-pneumatic-chuck-clamping-systems-perfectly-compatible-erowa/32394127980.html
05:11 AM XXCoder: how does it work?
05:12 AM miss0r: It has a ballbearing lock inside of it
05:12 AM miss0r: spring tentioned. Then when you add compressed air, they release
05:12 AM XXCoder: interesting! so no flying parts in air "blackouts"
05:13 AM XXCoder: experenced that. scary!
05:13 AM miss0r: Indeed
05:13 AM XXCoder: vacuum hold
05:13 AM miss0r: yeah, we can't have that :D
05:13 AM miss0r: It clamps with aprox 10tons
05:13 AM miss0r: err, pulls the part down with 10tons*
05:14 AM miss0r: Its pretty good for milling the elextrodes, and sticking them directly into the EDM using the same fixture
05:14 AM miss0r: and it is repeatable within 0.003mm
05:14 AM miss0r: BUT: erowa is ridiculously expensive
05:15 AM miss0r: well, you saw the price for the chinesium ripoff...
05:15 AM XXCoder: yeah if aliexpress one is.. lol
05:15 AM miss0r: You can add another zero to that if you want the namebrand
05:16 AM miss0r: Alot of that stuff came with my EDM when i bought it. I think I could resell the fixtures & jaws and have that pay for the EDM I bought
05:17 AM miss0r: I don't make enough money in here to go out and buy that stuff from new. I would have never started using the system had it not come with the EDM. I would have figured out a cheaper solution for sure
05:18 AM XXCoder: indeed. lucked out with deal eh
05:19 AM miss0r: Sometimes you get lucky
05:19 AM mase: https://www.cnc-discount.com/kugelumlaufspindeln/1610/1610-spindel-komplett/1610-spindel-komplett/186
05:19 AM mase: look at that
05:20 AM mase: I search a matching alu profil to mount the ballscrew
05:20 AM mase: I think for 1610 there are Bk 12 and bF12
05:20 AM XXCoder: bleh I still have full set of ballscrews. dunno what to do with em
05:21 AM mase: the distance is 46mm
05:21 AM miss0r: hmm.. Its just a rolled ballscrew
05:21 AM mase: so I must do a adaptermount for BK12 on profil 10
05:21 AM miss0r: and the only place it says SKF is in refrence to the grease used :D lol
05:21 AM mase: Which is silly
05:24 AM jthornton: morning
05:24 AM XXCoder: morning
05:24 AM mase: hi
05:25 AM miss0r: mornin'
05:25 AM miss0r: Heh. I was just asked to make a quote on a trailor generator :) Interresting
05:27 AM XXCoder: as in make entire one?
05:27 AM miss0r: Well, Deliever it to them. I don't think they expect me to do the generator windings by hand
05:28 AM miss0r: I will have to see what sort of prices I can stirr up
05:28 AM miss0r: Holy! <51db
05:28 AM miss0r: that is going to be expensive
05:33 AM XXCoder: man http://www.cathodecorner.com/sc100.html
05:33 AM XXCoder: wish i had skills to play with one
05:34 AM miss0r: google is your friend
05:40 AM miss0r: Speaking of friends; Does anyone know if archivist plans on getting back in here at any point?
05:40 AM XXCoder: dunno, hope so but probably not
05:41 AM Loetmichel: miss0r: friend of mine onece put a car lternateor and 10 55W/60W headlight bulbs on an excersie bike
05:42 AM Loetmichel: and then (pedaling like crazy) he asked me to put 12V on the exciter coil because he had virtually no resistance...
05:42 AM Loetmichel: :-)
05:42 AM miss0r: Loetmichel: Sounds like quite the spectacle
05:42 AM miss0r: XXCoder: Last I heard he was just busy. but I know nowthing realy
05:42 AM Loetmichel: yeah, he flew over the handle once the alternator "caught" and produced power
05:42 AM miss0r: lol
05:44 AM XXCoder: crazy
05:44 AM Loetmichel: it stopped quite rapidly with ~1.2kW load on it ;)
05:46 AM miss0r: hehe i can imagine
05:47 AM Loetmichel: friend subsequently learned then that ~200W is quite enough for an excercise bike as a load
05:49 AM gloops: miss0r archivist has logged for eternity
05:49 AM miss0r: I would need a 200W fan blowing air at me :D
05:49 AM gloops: lol, logged off
05:49 AM miss0r: gloops: as in: he is no more or he decided just not to be in here anymore?
05:50 AM gloops: miss0r hes alive i think but quit irc completely, his old boss gave me his phone number but i lost it
05:51 AM Wolf__: =/
05:51 AM gloops: i think he twigged on some business that actually works, hes very busy
05:51 AM Wolf__: I was wondering what happened to him
05:51 AM gloops: business idea
05:51 AM Wolf__ is now known as Wolf_
05:51 AM miss0r: gloops: so you gave him a call to know what was up?
05:52 AM Wolf_: https://i.imgur.com/Jw1eOEg.jpg =]
05:52 AM XXCoder: with lost number?
05:52 AM XXCoder: nice!
05:52 AM miss0r: XXCoder: Perhaps *before* he lost it
05:52 AM miss0r: ;)
05:52 AM Wolf_: and lol https://i.imgur.com/YU6spMZ.jpg
05:53 AM miss0r: Wolf_: thats a cutie
05:53 AM miss0r: You landed that?
05:53 AM XXCoder: single drawer from that super dirty drawer? weird
05:53 AM Wolf_: this stuff is sooo dirty
05:53 AM miss0r: XXCoder: I think the term is 'paper weight' :P
05:53 AM gloops: miss0r i phoned the clock company he used to work for, the owner (lovely sounding old gent) did some enquiring and found archivist alive and well, he gave me his mobile number, archivist says hes happy for anyone to ring him, but not on irc anymore
05:53 AM Wolf_: XXCoder: thats one of these cleaned https://i.imgur.com/NwViguU.jpg
05:53 AM XXCoder: miss0r: bit large for paperweight. lol
05:54 AM XXCoder: Wolf_: it gets dirtier each time I look at it.
05:54 AM miss0r: gloops: I'm sad you lost the number, I wouldn't mind giving him a call
05:54 AM miss0r: wolf_: Did you find that in a back alley behind a chinese resteraunt?
05:55 AM XXCoder: lol
05:55 AM gloops: hmm, we got the number through his old website 'archivistherron' thats logged off as well now
05:55 AM Wolf_: it was sitting next to the huge grinder, but also that shop has 6 EDM machines, everything had a film of oil
05:55 AM XXCoder: F grade closed chinese reserant
05:55 AM miss0r: haha
05:55 AM Wolf_: try waybackmachine or something gloops
05:56 AM miss0r: Going to start cutting this part in a jerry rigged setup. please send ambulance to if you do not hear from me soon :P
05:56 AM XXCoder: :P
05:56 AM gloops: i cant remember his real name now, it was all there on the website
05:56 AM miss0r: damn
05:56 AM gloops: might come to me
05:57 AM miss0r: I'd like to know what he is up to. I found him very pleasant to talk to. I miss him in here
05:57 AM gloops: well, the clock guy said it was very typical behaviour for archivist to disappear lol
05:57 AM gloops: but he is a very clever chap
05:57 AM miss0r: very knowledgeable - he'd always know ;)
05:58 AM miss0r: He was actualy the one that helped me setup my very first linuxCNC chinesium router
05:58 AM XXCoder: ugh gonna sleeo
05:58 AM miss0r: So I guess I, in part, owe my selfemployment to him ;)
05:58 AM XXCoder: it'll be so hot when I wake up
05:59 AM miss0r: its hot here at the moment. 33c
05:59 AM gloops: http://www.herronwindows.co.uk/ < that is the window company he worked for, his first name is Dave
05:59 AM XXCoder: Monday night is supposed to be partly cloudy. hopefully it marks start of end of hot hell
05:59 AM * miss0r crosses his fingers
05:59 AM miss0r: Code transferred to mill... Off to wreck some parts bbiab
06:00 AM XXCoder: later
06:00 AM gloops: it was the window company the clock guy got his number from
06:00 AM XXCoder: later all
06:06 AM Wolf_: gloops: https://web.archive.org/web/20170521082744/http://www.archivist.info:80/
06:09 AM gloops: no whois for archivist
06:09 AM gloops: need to whois the server
06:14 AM Wolf_: his name is on the whois
06:15 AM gloops: whats the name again Wolf_?
06:15 AM gloops: Dave...ashton? no
06:15 AM Wolf_: Dave Caroline
06:15 AM Wolf_: Mailing Address: , Staffordshire GB
06:15 AM gloops: thats it definitely
06:16 AM gloops: i know too many Daves
06:17 AM gloops: the oold whois gave a couple of phone numbers - one is the clock company he worked for
06:17 AM Wolf_: current one doesnt
06:18 AM gloops: hmm, well Herron windows knows him, phone them and ask if theyve seen Dave Caroline recently, i think he'd come back it was Ichs who offended him
06:25 AM miss0r: bah !
06:25 AM miss0r: Thats one cutter down
06:25 AM Wolf_: too bad you’re not local to me
06:25 AM miss0r: shitty no good jerry rigged setup! I almost punched the E-switch through the panel
06:25 AM Wolf_: I have cutters to spare now
06:26 AM miss0r: Yeah, so do I; but I just hate replacing them and zeroing the tool library
06:26 AM Wolf_: really I need to find someone that needs large endmills...
06:26 AM jthornton: I wondered why Dave left
06:26 AM miss0r: plus; the workpeice moved
06:26 AM miss0r: wolf_: how large?
06:26 AM Wolf_: like >1”
06:26 AM miss0r: do you keep metric?
06:27 AM Wolf_: this is all sae and some regrind
06:27 AM miss0r: I could use a few good large carbide endmills for the odd job
06:27 AM miss0r: I think the largest one I have is 20mm. and it needs a grind to be back in buisness
06:27 AM Wolf_: HSS also
06:27 AM Wolf_: lol
06:28 AM Wolf_: I’m willing to bet that the cabinet (that filthy one) weights more then the surface grinder
06:30 AM miss0r: lol
06:30 AM miss0r: I'll buy some cutters from you. What've you got?
06:31 AM Wolf_: shipping from USA might suck
06:32 AM miss0r: oh.. yeah. For some reason I had you as british
06:32 AM mase: I am looking for a cad model for this peace
06:32 AM mase: https://www.cnc-discount.com/1605-flansch-loslager/110
06:32 AM miss0r: UK to Denmark would not be too bad
06:32 AM Wolf_: https://www.bidspotter.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/comly-auctioneers/catalogue-id-bscco10103/lot-94058ffa-7cfb-4f22-bbd5-a91801564909 it was 3-4 lots for the one cabinet, 151 and 153 I didn’t get to give a idea lol
06:32 AM mase: fusion does not have it -.-
06:32 AM miss0r: mase: why don't you just draw it? that shouldn't take too long
06:33 AM mase: I don t have the measurements
06:33 AM Wolf_: yes you do, the bearing
06:33 AM Wolf_: what is it for?
06:35 AM mase: 1605 Ballscrew
06:35 AM Wolf_: looks like tail end ball screw support, non critical, just make it whatever size is needed
06:35 AM miss0r: wtf. The cutter is not dead. not even close. I managed to pack it with alu :S
06:35 AM miss0r: This never happens with these !
06:35 AM Wolf_: lol miss0r thats a plus
06:35 AM Wolf_: sorta
06:35 AM miss0r: well, sure.
06:36 AM miss0r: Now I don't have to reset the cutter. That is a bonus
06:36 AM miss0r: I would just like to know what the hell happened that made it pack up
06:38 AM miss0r: Trying to give it another go :D
06:39 AM Wolf_: =) guess I should get started on the cleaning, I think the smaller cabinet is first. I wonder what color it is under all the oil and grinder dust
06:41 AM Wolf_: mase: if that is for the 1605 ballscrew from the same site, its 10mm id bearing, pretty simple past that seeing you are going to need to make a bracket for it to mount to anyways, you can just design your own instead
06:45 AM Wolf_: and that part is way overpriced https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/FF12-10mm-Clockwise-Tooth-Ballscrew-Support_860368041.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normalList.66.7506fdc2MQ9zIo lol
06:47 AM Wolf_: mase: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-Shipping-FK12-FF12-Support-for-Ball-Screw-1605-set-1-pc-FK12-Fixed-Side-1/334759_1859996346.html should be the same
06:53 AM mase: nice thank you
06:55 AM mase: hmm not knowing how the fixed side is holding the ballscrew
06:55 AM mase: first there is a M12 thread
06:56 AM Wolf_: sounds right
06:56 AM mase: the part is screw on the ball screw is clamped between 2 ball bearings ?
06:56 AM mase: the part with the M12 thread
06:57 AM Wolf_: if you look at that FK12, its 2 angular contact bearings, the shoulder of the ball screw on one side, the nut to give bearing preload on the other
07:00 AM mase: Thx so far wolf
07:00 AM mase: I need to go working a bit
07:00 AM miss0r: This mill is killing me :] at 2400 baud it is taking close to forever to transfer a 3000 line code
07:00 AM mase: a least acting like so :D
07:00 AM Wolf_: lol
07:02 AM miss0r: transferred 500 lines, when I realized I have not removed the 'memory lock' on the mill... FFF
07:02 AM miss0r: starting over. I will go get some lunch while it transferres. bbl
07:03 AM * Loetmichel just faced off a few tenths of a mm of my CNC vacuum table top (8mm phenolic plate) ... WHAT A MESS!!!!111 -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17171&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
07:27 AM SpeedEvil: Have you considered chip extraction?
07:32 AM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: yes, i even have a "vacuum foot" to put on there... just cant find it
07:32 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4552
07:32 AM Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj8sGEf8Wf8
08:14 AM IchGucksLive: hi all we are melting at 100F here at lake
08:15 AM IchGucksLive: miss0r, you shoudt convert
08:15 AM IchGucksLive: miss0r, or get a better g-coder
08:20 AM Loetmichel: only 100F?
08:20 AM Loetmichel: <- has just checked... workshop has 44,5°C already...
08:21 AM Loetmichel: maaan i need an air exhaust in there when the shopvac runs all day
08:25 AM roycroft: we're in the midst of a heat wave here
08:25 AM roycroft: but ironically, i got paged last night because our machine room (computers) was at a critical low temperature of 14 degrees
08:26 AM roycroft: we had hvac repair folks out yesterday - they must have set the units to a much lower than normal temperature
08:26 AM roycroft: i generally keep the machine room at 18 degrees
08:27 AM roycroft: i resolved the problem by setting the critical low temperature threshold to 10 degrees in my network monitoring system
08:27 AM roycroft: and when i go down there tomorrow i'll adjust the hvac system
08:27 AM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel, the jobmanager is to blame above 26deg
08:28 AM roycroft: it looks like we'll reach 37-38 again today
08:31 AM IchGucksLive: gloops, may brek its altime record
08:36 AM roycroft: we'll come close
08:36 AM FinboySlick: Yoyo Pete!
08:39 AM roycroft: not close to the all time high ever recorded here - that's in the mid-40s
08:39 AM roycroft: but close to the all time high for the day
08:41 AM miss0r: beh. My coolant pump clogged up in the middle of an alu workpeice. That explains why it packed the cutter
08:41 AM IchGucksLive: BAD BAD the PSU of a New uild Mill just exploded
08:42 AM IchGucksLive: it rely sparleld off
08:42 AM miss0r: but on the upside; I just purged the system and found that I have alot more coolant pressure than i thought :D
08:42 AM IchGucksLive: what a smell here
08:42 AM miss0r: :o
08:42 AM miss0r: hmm... Balanced psu?
08:42 AM IchGucksLive: China crap
08:42 AM miss0r: sure... but is it just a transformer with a rectifyer bridge and a cap? or does it have all sorts of other stuff in there as well?
08:43 AM Roguish: hey roycroft, your temp is up there with mine.... yesterday 100ish F
08:43 AM miss0r: I seem to remember something about switchmode PSUs with a balanced output not taking the kickback from the drivers too well
08:45 AM Loetmichel: IchGucksLive: that would be me ;-)
08:46 AM IchGucksLive: UP and runnnoing again
08:47 AM IchGucksLive: hope it has been only the bad psu
08:47 AM IchGucksLive: i got lots of spare parts gere
08:52 AM IchGucksLive: ok im off somewhat shockt never happend bevore
08:59 AM miss0r: foiled by my lack of cnc memory yet again !
08:59 AM miss0r: I have a task here I am forced to do with a method that takes 18mins, but I could replace it with a method that only takes 4, but the fast method is quite alot bigger than the memory allows. *fsck* !
09:00 AM miss0r: this sucks !
09:01 AM gregcnc: why such a difference in prg size?
09:01 AM roycroft: so start the task, then come back here and complain about it for 14 minutes to make up the time difference :)
09:02 AM miss0r: :]
09:02 AM miss0r: gregcnc: One uses some highspeed 2D method. like the 'adaptive' in autodesk.
09:03 AM miss0r: the one I am forced to use is using conventional milling.
09:03 AM miss0r: All those arcs, that aren't realy arcs require alot of coordinates defined to make the motion smooth
09:03 AM gregcnc: i assume you play with tolerance to reduce file size?
09:04 AM miss0r: roycroft: Well, the 4 and 18 minuts are for each of 6 identical shapes on 4 identical workpeices
09:04 AM miss0r: gregcnc: Yeah. Didn't make nearly enough difference
09:04 AM roycroft: oh, so you would have to complain 24 times
09:04 AM roycroft: that's too much complaining
09:04 AM roycroft: better to get some more memory
09:04 AM miss0r: roycroft: Yeah, its just a headsup: put me on ignore now :P
09:05 AM roycroft: as long as dole the complaints out in small doses we'll probably be ok
09:05 AM miss0r: I looked at more memory for the mill, but it will set me back 2000eur for 1mb more
09:05 AM roycroft: eek
09:05 AM roycroft: you could almost fab your own for that price
09:05 AM gregcnc: what kind of tool and cut that there is that much difference?
09:05 AM miss0r: I'm sure I could. Perhaps even cheaper. But even with that fixed theres still the bottleneck of getting the code onto the mill (2400 baud serial connection)
09:06 AM miss0r: gregcnc: Let me make you two screenshots of the different toolpaths
09:10 AM miss0r: that took a while... gregcnc: https://imgur.com/a/bL63bp6
09:12 AM miss0r: but since those are not actualy circles in the right one, I have to define them by alot of coordinates instead of just lines'n arcs as I do on the left.
09:12 AM miss0r: So, I run out of memory
09:14 AM gregcnc: I'm mainly surprised by the difference in run time. But with so much air being cut on the conventional it's not surprising. You also have a large difference in Ae
09:17 AM roycroft: can you split the high speed job into multiple operations, each of which fits your current memory footprint?
09:18 AM gregcnc: I'd refine the conventional with better containement and similar toolpath
09:18 AM gregcnc: easily can be half the tim
09:35 AM jesseg: Oh what a dirty trick... If you were ordering an LED readout on ebay, and you could choose from the colors Red, Blue, or Green, what do you think that means? https://www.ebay.com/itm/201675752466
09:36 AM jesseg: Answer: The circuit board color. All the LEDs are red LOL
09:36 AM gregcnc: lol clearly the PCB
09:42 AM jesseg: at least it wasn't the color of the postage they affixed to the envelope :P
09:42 AM miss0r: gregcnc: Interresting with the conventional. I am looking at optimizing it, but theres not much to do (with my cam anyway), unless I want a hard life for my cutting tools
09:44 AM gregcnc: which cam is it?
09:44 AM miss0r: But I'm open to faster ideas, especially knowing theres a chance I need to make alot of these in the future
09:44 AM miss0r: mastercam x5
09:48 AM gregcnc: what is ae for the two strategies and why is it so different?
09:54 AM miss0r: One is a contour with multipases the other is highspeed 2d
09:55 AM gregcnc: i understand but should Ae be different?
09:58 AM miss0r: well, yes and no :)
09:59 AM miss0r: because of the way the multipass work, if I did a 1mm stepover it would slot the middle in one go
09:59 AM gregcnc: are you pushing the cutter to the breking point?
09:59 AM miss0r: working on it :]
09:59 AM gregcnc: so make the slotting pass at slotting speeds
10:00 AM miss0r: I am already doing that manually on the mill while operating it. But it still takes damn near forever
10:01 AM gregcnc: OK in the end you have to be happy with it, I just don't see 5x time savings on a slow spindle
10:01 AM miss0r: Something was off in my initial speed estimate.. lol
10:01 AM miss0r: its 4 and 8 minuts
10:01 AM gregcnc: ok
10:01 AM miss0r: The difference between the two
10:02 AM miss0r: But still.
10:02 AM miss0r: Which basically translates to the larger stepover in the highspeed 2D
10:03 AM gregcnc: right, and the real question is how much can you get away with in conventional
10:03 AM miss0r: hmmm... I shall mill a slot and speed up the multipass run. Then I 'should' be able to take atleast 3 minuts off that
10:03 AM miss0r: What do you mean?
10:04 AM miss0r: 'stepover' wise?
10:04 AM gregcnc: yes
10:04 AM miss0r: I see no reason I shouldn't be able to do 1mm af 11mm doc
10:05 AM miss0r: My speeds are limited as is; its a 4000rpm spindle
10:05 AM gregcnc: the inside corners can bite you if feed rate can't be slowed, where as any decent HS path accounts for such
10:06 AM gregcnc: but imo HS paths are not the cureall
10:08 AM miss0r: With a "true spiral" picket operation I have the time down to 3m 28s with a helix entry motion.
10:08 AM miss0r: that and a 0.75mm stepover
10:08 AM miss0r: That ought to work
10:09 AM miss0r: In addition its only 150 lines pr. pocket
10:09 AM gregcnc: arc moves?
10:09 AM miss0r: yep
10:10 AM gregcnc: tha'ts great then
10:11 AM gregcnc: crap i have a package coming from DE with no tracking since the 18th.
10:11 AM miss0r: Lost in mail?
10:11 AM gregcnc: no idea
10:12 AM gregcnc: no update since DHL got it to Frankfurt
10:13 AM miss0r: I had a small replacement plastic cap sent to me from an ebay seller. I was wondering where it was, so I looked at the tracking info on ebay, and found that the postman tried to deliever it to me 10 days prior. I went to the postoffice and got it, wondering where the notion slip was at. Turns out it found its way under the bottom plate of my mailbox
10:13 AM miss0r: thank you DHL.
10:14 AM gregcnc: it looks like this one should be handed over to USPS at some point
10:14 AM miss0r: Its not like USPS has the best reputation. Perhaps they kept it ;)
10:15 AM gregcnc: I'm not sure if that would happen in Germany or here.
10:15 AM gregcnc: last time DHL delivered to my door, must have been express vs priority
10:16 AM gregcnc: 11 tool holders for my lathe :-(
10:18 AM miss0r: :-(
11:12 AM `Wolf: lol https://i.imgur.com/JMBWHGL.jpg
11:13 AM hazzy-lab: Nice Wolf!
11:13 AM hazzy-lab: dunp it out!
11:13 AM hazzy-lab: dump*
11:13 AM `Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/3K0ZW8P.jpg
11:13 AM `Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/cJLfEWh.jpg working on the small one right now
11:15 AM `Wolf: about to bring the 44” tall one in to the house and set it next to my desk in the shop area
11:17 AM `Wolf: I need to figure out how to get latex paint off the aluminum handles tho
11:24 AM SpeedEvil: wire wheel?
11:26 AM `Wolf: without destroying the anodized finish
11:27 AM `Wolf: the Zep degreaser took some of it off
11:28 AM `Wolf: smaller one was originally red and has a westinghouse electronics tag on it
11:49 AM jthornton: https://www.amazon.com/Abco-Tech-Electric-Humane-Mouse/dp/B07BFJ9B7L
11:54 AM * `Wolf may need a bulk pack of those for the house
11:54 AM `Wolf: not being in my house during rehab the rodents have taken over
11:54 AM `Wolf: rehab/restoration
11:55 AM * hazzy-m uploaded an image: 20180726_125348.jpg (272KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/nAgFpsYGvlYFngYcPZnJjgRm >
11:55 AM hazzy-m: jthornton: I couldn't get it to go in
11:58 AM JT-Shop: lol
11:59 AM jesseg: maybe it can read
12:01 PM JT-Shop: hazzy-m: I should have the wizard creating a basic configuration in the morning :)
12:02 PM * JT-Shop heads for town
12:02 PM hazzy-m: Hurry! I can't wait to see it, what I saw last looked really good
12:03 PM hazzy-lab: jesseg: I think it just knows to be very suspicions of anything I try to get it to do, lol
12:03 PM jesseg: lol
12:08 PM jesseg: well in other news my 50g tube of Kluber USOFLEX NBU 15 did arrive. Previously, I did test chainsaw bar oil in my engraver spindle and it seemed to work fine, but now that I have the bloody expensive stuff I'll wash out the bar oil and put in pure golden lube.
12:09 PM hazzy-lab: 50g seems like I decent amount, I thought it was sold by the milligram :)
12:09 PM jesseg: I probably could have got a 1mg syringe full of it for almost the same price :P
12:10 PM gregcnc: it will go a long way
12:10 PM hazzy-lab: that is a lifetime supply
12:10 PM gregcnc: depends how many spindles you rebuild
12:11 PM roycroft: $0.80/g
12:11 PM roycroft: expensive stuff
12:12 PM jesseg: yeah definitely lifetime for my engraver. However, if I start putting it in the spindle bearings on my knee mill that could eat it up faster, although I'm not sure 5000rpm is really considered high speed so bar oil probably work just fine in those LOL
12:12 PM gregcnc: common grease is fine for many low speed needs
12:12 PM IchGucksLive: hi
12:12 PM jesseg: howdy IchGucksLive
12:13 PM roycroft: don't let the president near your mill though - he would have you pee on the spindle to lube it
12:13 PM gregcnc: I still cringe at bar oil though, I think that's bottom grade stuff
12:13 PM roycroft: it's sticky
12:13 PM roycroft: at least use vactra if you want sticky
12:13 PM hazzy-lab: vactra is so cheap, why not use that?
12:13 PM jesseg: roycroft, yeah my mill is actually an ATrump brand mill. :P
12:14 PM hazzy-lab: its cheaper than bar oil sometimes
12:14 PM hazzy-lab: jesseg: LOL
12:14 PM jesseg: is vactra also good for ways?
12:14 PM roycroft: that's what it's made for
12:15 PM hazzy-lab: yes, that is what it is for!
12:15 PM roycroft: that's why it's so sticky
12:15 PM gregcnc: check the manuals
12:15 PM gregcnc: there are 4 grades of vactra
12:15 PM jesseg: oh lol gotcha,
12:15 PM roycroft: vactra 2 is the most common
12:15 PM jesseg: Hrm, looks like vactra is about $38/gal.. bar oil is like $8/gal
12:16 PM roycroft: and how many ml do you need?
12:16 PM gregcnc: vactra is 20-25usd/gal
12:16 PM roycroft: how long will that gallon last?
12:16 PM hazzy-lab: At the simens turbine plant in NC they have what look like fueling stations, one for each number of vactra
12:16 PM hazzy-lab: they must go thru a LOT of it
12:17 PM roycroft: tankers of vactra
12:17 PM jesseg: oh I'm sure it'd last me a year. But I mean if I'm putting it in the way oilers and lubing my quill with it and whatever it's going to get used up
12:17 PM hazzy-lab: jesseg: I have two lathes and two mills, one gal lasts about a year and a half
12:18 PM jesseg: hazzy-dev, ya ok. I wonder in what ways its better
12:18 PM jesseg: what number do you use? is the number just the weight of it, i.e. thickness
12:18 PM roycroft: i'd be concerned that bar oil might be somewhat corrosive
12:19 PM hazzy-lab: you will get much smother action than with the bar oil, there is a lot of stick-slip with pbar oil that wil go away with the vactra
12:19 PM roycroft: especially with soft metals
12:19 PM gregcnc: basically it doesn'r un off the ways, is resistant to coolant washing it off, and is supposed to reduce stick/slip
12:19 PM roycroft: if you have any brass bushings/etc. on your machines bar oil might not be good for that
12:20 PM jesseg: well perhaps I'll get a gallon and see if it feels better. What is the number #1, #2, #3, #4 or whatever for and what number do I want?
12:20 PM gregcnc: 2
12:21 PM gregcnc: is the spindle also supposed to use way oil?
12:21 PM Rab: The Practical Machinist forum doesn't think so.
12:21 PM gregcnc: right
12:21 PM jesseg: On a chinese mill? I think you're supposed to use rendered beef fat on these.
12:22 PM Rab: I wouldn't put something that's formulated to be tacky into high-speed bearings. And supposedly it has difficulty penetrating into bearing tolderances.
12:22 PM jesseg: so how do you lubricate your spindle bearings, and what do you use, hazzy-dev ?
12:23 PM roycroft: i would not use way oil on spindle bearings
12:23 PM hazzy-lab: I use a mobile spindle oil, I can't remember which one of the top of my head
12:24 PM Rab: I dunno what goes into bar oil, but I suspect it isn't well-characterized or precisely formulated. I mean, it seems like it might as well be used motor oil for all chainsaws care.
12:24 PM jesseg: hazzy-dev, and what procedure do you use for getting the oil onto them little roller pins in the bearing?
12:24 PM roycroft: bar oil is a lot tackier than used motor oil
12:24 PM Rab: Velocite #10 is a widely used spindle oil.
12:24 PM roycroft: chansaw bars get rather warm, and there's nothing to keep the oil on the bar
12:24 PM roycroft: so a tacky oil is required, otherwise one would have to continually flood the bar with oil
12:25 PM roycroft: but i think that's about all the chainsaw cares about
12:25 PM Rab: Noted, but it could also be full of sulphur and who knows what else.
12:25 PM roycroft: yes, that is what i was alluding to earlier
12:25 PM `Wolf: just trying to keep the chain from welding itself to the bar
12:25 PM hazzy-lab: The BP has an oil cup that I fill up, on the RF45 I just drip some oil in the upper spindle bearing and let it run down to the lower one, which is basically the same thing the PB does
12:25 PM roycroft: with my discussion of brass parts in the machine
12:25 PM jesseg: on the other hand, a chainsaw chain on a bar is essentially a continuous sliding way :P
12:26 PM `Wolf: but the chain bar and chain are consumables as well
12:26 PM roycroft: sulphur is not going to eat your chain or bar, but it will eat your bronze/brass bushings
12:26 PM jesseg: but I'm open to using proper oils.. When you last lubricated your spindle bearings, how did you do it? Take it apart and pack them? pour in the oil some place? or is it auto oiled?
12:27 PM `Wolf: squirt some in, or oiler cup
12:28 PM hazzy-lab: jesseg: I would like to switch over to using grease, the oil it a mess since it is always slinging out from the spindle
12:28 PM jesseg: hazzy-dev, yeah that makes sense, but how do you get grease in?
12:29 PM Rab: The manual for my mill claims the bearings are greased and sealed for life, and not to be lubricated again. The mill was made in 1965...I guess if I thought there was a lubrication problem, I'd just rebuild with new bearings.
12:29 PM hazzy-lab: Take the spindle apart and repack the bearings, its easy on a PB type spindle
12:29 PM hazzy-lab: jesseg: what type of spindle do you have?
12:31 PM IchGucksLive: im off its still melting hot here in germany
12:31 PM jesseg: hazzy-dev, it's a Taiwanese BP clone, I'm not sure what kind it is. The mill is a K2V with a belt variator.
12:31 PM IchGucksLive: Gn8
12:31 PM jesseg: Cya IchGucksLive
12:32 PM hazzy-lab: jesseg: Ok, that should be easy to take the spindle apart on, probably almost identical to a PB spindle. Just make sure you mark the orientation of the bearings when you take them out and put them back the same way
12:34 PM jesseg: k
12:36 PM jesseg: haha the manual says it takes 10 to 15 minutes to change the variator from low to high speed.
12:36 PM hazzy-lab: All you have to do is unscrew the spindle nose and slide out the spindle and bearings, you can even do it with the quill in the machine
12:36 PM hazzy-lab: whoa, that is some slow cranking. I can change a belt faster then that!
12:36 PM jesseg: well I think they meant to write "seconds"
12:36 PM hazzy-lab: hahaha, I hope so
12:37 PM jesseg: nobody's going to take 15 minutes to change speeds.
12:37 PM roycroft: it takes me more than 15 minutes when i first wake up to get up to speed
12:37 PM hazzy-lab: Might be a way to get out of warranty claims, lol
12:37 PM jesseg: lol
12:38 PM jesseg: hazzy-dev, LOL yeah. Instruction manual probably says in fine chinese print "Warranty void if machine turned on."
12:38 PM jesseg: CS just says "Sir, did you turn on the machine? Oh you did? well your warranty is void then."
12:38 PM hazzy-lab: haha
12:38 PM roycroft: "warranty void if plug cover removed"
12:38 PM jesseg: LOL
12:38 PM roycroft: better yet
12:39 PM roycroft: "warranty void if machine is uncrated"
12:40 PM jesseg: or even better "This unit was made with a factory warranty. The warranty is up as soon as it leaves the factory."
12:41 PM roycroft: so for you folks who do cnc machining in the real world
12:41 PM jesseg: heh, the manual shows ball bearings in the spindle. Is that normal? or are they usually tapered roller bearings?
12:41 PM roycroft: i was planning on getting the tormach tool holder system whenever i got around to doing the cnc conversion on my mill/drill
12:41 PM roycroft: for those who are not familiar with it, it's an easily indexible system
12:42 PM roycroft: but the toolholders have 3/4" straight shanks
12:42 PM jesseg: hey what do you all grease your spline with?
12:42 PM roycroft: they are held by a special collet with an r8 shank - the collet is "flatter" than a standard one
12:43 PM roycroft: so tool changes, although easily repeatable, still require operating the drawbar
12:43 PM roycroft: this kwik switch system is different
12:43 PM roycroft: there's a "master", that is available with an r8 shank, and a collar that twists to hold the toolholder in place
12:43 PM roycroft: once the master is installed the drawbar is no longer needed for tool changes, which i like
12:44 PM roycroft: kwik swithc is much more expensive than tormach
12:44 PM roycroft: my question is: in the real world, how many toolholders does one need to do most milling operations without having to change out the tooling in the holder?
12:44 PM roycroft: a dozen?
12:44 PM roycroft: 50?
12:45 PM jesseg: I'm not in the real world
12:45 PM gregcnc: well there are mills with somethign like 300 tools?
12:45 PM gregcnc: all depends what you're making
12:45 PM roycroft: is it normal to set up and index tooling at the beginning of every job?
12:45 PM roycroft: yeah, and it's hard to answer this precisely
12:45 PM jesseg: but you'd probably have to look at it like toxoligists do when they classify a substance as having a lethal dose for 50% of the population
12:45 PM roycroft: i'm just trying to get a general feel for what i'd be getting myself into
12:46 PM gregcnc: Sometimes a job requires all new tooling in the machine
12:46 PM roycroft: i'll probably use no more than 10 tools on an average job
12:46 PM roycroft: including taps and drills
12:46 PM jesseg: I'd say 10 was a decent place to start
12:46 PM roycroft: the thing is
12:46 PM gregcnc: my little mill has 10 tools and most of the time that's OK
12:46 PM roycroft: it would take a half hour or so to set up and index 10 tools, i should think
12:47 PM roycroft: so i'm not sure i'd want to do that for every job
12:47 PM roycroft: tormach tool holders are about $8
12:47 PM roycroft: kwik switch 200 series are more like $25 used
12:47 PM roycroft: quite a price difference
12:48 PM roycroft: but $250 one-time for a set of tool holders isn't horrible
12:48 PM roycroft: i prefer collets to the screw type holders, though
12:48 PM roycroft: and kwik switch collet chucks are more like $80 used
12:48 PM roycroft: i could learn to live with the screw type
12:48 PM gregcnc: for that kind of money I'd just get more as needed
12:49 PM roycroft: yeah, i'm just trying to get a general sense
12:49 PM roycroft: i can get the master for $200 used on ebay
12:49 PM roycroft: which isn't bad
12:49 PM roycroft: the guy who owns the bridgeport at the maker space thinks that the kiwk switch on it is a 300 series, which are much more expensive than the 200 series
12:50 PM roycroft: but i'm pretty sure there's a 200 to 300 adapter
12:50 PM roycroft: my goal being the ability to bring tooling from home to use at the maker space
12:50 PM gregcnc: you'll end up with a few endmills that are always in holders
12:50 PM roycroft: yes
12:50 PM roycroft: and proabably a few drills and taps that are always in holders
12:51 PM roycroft: and that's the number i'm trying to get at
12:51 PM roycroft: a dozen or so sounds about right to me to start with
12:51 PM roycroft: with 3-4 more for job-specific tooling
12:51 PM roycroft: i am still not sure what to do with my carbide face mill and slitting cutter
12:52 PM roycroft: they both have r8 shanks
12:52 PM gregcnc: apparently priority DHL is like 2 weeks form DE to USA
12:52 PM roycroft: but i'm pretty sure the shanks are removable, so i could adapt them to the kwik switch system, presumably
12:53 PM roycroft: oh, and my boring head as well
12:55 PM `Wolf: gregcnc: that doesn’t sound right, I got a package DHL from switzerland and it took 4days
12:55 PM `Wolf: or 7
12:55 PM `Wolf: but not 2 weeks…
12:56 PM gregcnc: yeah last time I had one from Germany is was also fast, but the sender confirmed with DHL.
12:56 PM gregcnc: at least they didn't say it was lost
12:59 PM miss0r: gregcnc: The new toolpath is just spitting these parts out :]
01:00 PM miss0r: gregcnc: The only issue now is my underpowered coolant pump. I have to stand guard with an air pistol, to clear out the chips once in a while
01:14 PM jesseg: Hmm. Would Velocite #6 be OK? Zoro has good deal on that in 1gal. They have #10 but only in 5 gal.
01:14 PM roycroft: so upon doing more research it appears that bridgeport BOSS mills shipped with a kwik-switch 200 series spindle
01:14 PM roycroft: so no r8 spindle at all on the machine
01:14 PM miss0r: 550x100x10mm aluminium workpeice. I have only clamped it in either end (480mm apart) and I'm getting zero chatter working in the middle :S I guess sometimes you get lucky
01:15 PM roycroft: if, indeed, it came from the factory as a BOSS, and not a standard mill that's been retrofitted
01:16 PM `Wolf: jesseg: how about this http://a.co/cfXupWB
01:17 PM Rab: jesseg, the significant difference is that #10 has higher viscosity than #6 (ISO 22 vs ISO 6).
01:17 PM hazzy-lab: roycroft: The BOSS mills came with various spindle options, including CAT30
01:18 PM roycroft: well since the owner has no clue, i'm going to pop over at lunch time and see for myself what it is
01:18 PM roycroft: if there is no drawbar i'm going to assume it's a kwik switch spindle
01:18 PM jesseg: blah, I could get 5 gallons but has a 5 year shelf life only ;P
01:18 PM roycroft: at least i can assume it's not an r8 spindle
01:18 PM roycroft: which is all that matters
01:18 PM Rab: jesseg, McMaster-Carr carries #10 in single gallons for $28.39. Not sure if that's a deal: https://www.mcmaster.com/#2158k24/=1dvthzo
01:19 PM roycroft: the best price for those lubricants was enco
01:19 PM hazzy-lab: roycroft: if its a kwik you won't confuse it with anything else!
01:19 PM Rab: Also there are sellers on eBay which repackage way & spindle oils into smaller containers. Might be a good deal if you don't expect to use a lot.
01:19 PM roycroft: now you get to buy the same stuff from the borg collective (mcs) for 30-50% more
01:19 PM * hazzy-lab misses ENCO sorely
01:19 PM roycroft: i know it's kwik, hazzy-lab
01:20 PM jesseg: Rab, oh cool that's nice let me see what mcmaster-carr has
01:20 PM roycroft: what i don't know is if it's kwik switch 200 or kwik switch 300
01:20 PM hazzy-lab: ah, I see
01:20 PM roycroft: what else i don't know if if it's a kwik switch spindle or an r8 spindle with a kwick switch r8 shank master installed
01:20 PM roycroft: or something completely different
01:20 PM roycroft: i have r8 tooling that i'd like to be able to use
01:21 PM miss0r: I buy wayoil I 5L jugs. They last around 6months around here. In my opinion that is a pretty good size
01:21 PM roycroft: so i want to know if the spindle is r8 with a kwik switch mmaster, as that would mean i might be able to use my existing tooling
01:21 PM roycroft: i have two goals:
01:22 PM roycroft: 1. to get an indexable tool holder system for my home mill so that when i cnc it i can predefine tool length offsets
01:22 PM `Wolf: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lubrication-oils-for-Bridgeport-Milling-Machine-4-pack-NEW/291372796364 seems like a good deal for home shop gamers, same as the amazon link, guy will also sub out the hydraulic oil for a 2nd way oil
01:22 PM roycroft: 2. to be able to use pre-indexed tooling both at home and at the maker space
01:22 PM roycroft: the same pre-indexed tooling
01:23 PM roycroft: a third goal would be to not have to deal with a drawbar any more
01:23 PM miss0r: with R8 ? :S
01:23 PM `Wolf: thats part of what I want to do, stop dealing with the drawbar on my mill…
01:24 PM roycroft: miss0r: https://www.ebay.com/itm/382526800792
01:24 PM miss0r: ohh. Indeed
01:24 PM miss0r: What does the tool holders cost?
01:24 PM * hazzy-m uploaded an image: 20180726_142344.jpg (1060KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/mEorCXdRIukfJdlYSHZgMNWp >
01:24 PM hazzy-lab: TTS is the way to go ...
01:24 PM roycroft: if i get the tormach system, which i originally intended to do, i'd have to use the drawbar every time
01:24 PM roycroft: tool holders are ~$25 used
01:25 PM hazzy-lab: Nah, just make a PDB
01:25 PM `Wolf: unless you use a air drive drawbar with the TTS
01:25 PM miss0r: roycroft: Have you considered swapping out your spindle for a iso40 instead? everything for those are dirt cheap
01:25 PM roycroft: kwik-switch is even easier
01:25 PM Rab: roycroft, just curious, what's the draw to use the hackerspace mill if you have serious equipment at home?
01:25 PM roycroft: miss0r: i hadn't
01:25 PM roycroft: i don't have serious equipment at home
01:26 PM roycroft: i have a small mill/drill
01:26 PM `Wolf: just get a cat 40 or 50 machine used =P
01:26 PM roycroft: i need to make some parts that are bigger than i can make on the home machine in one go
01:26 PM miss0r: What are you running?
01:26 PM Rab: Ahh OK
01:26 PM roycroft: i don't have room for even a bridgeport class machine at home right now
01:26 PM roycroft: and i won't need one so large most of the time
01:26 PM `Wolf: was 2 mills at the auction that were sitting at $200 to take
01:26 PM miss0r: wolf: ISO40 = cat 40 = SK40 ect
01:26 PM roycroft: paying $25/month to be able to use the hacker space is not a bad deal
01:26 PM `Wolf: I know
01:26 PM miss0r: well, same taper, different drawbar thread/pullrod
01:26 PM jesseg: OK you guys will all be pleased to know that I ordered a gallon of Velocite #10 and a gallon of Vactra #2 from McMaster-Carr :D Thanks for the advice :D
01:27 PM roycroft: and they have a cnc router, laser cutter, plasma cutter, multiple 3d printers (but no sls printers so far)
01:27 PM roycroft: the tormach system is cheap
01:28 PM roycroft: i just don't like having to reach way up to loosen/tighten the drawbar
01:28 PM miss0r: yeah, but it is somewhat wonky
01:28 PM roycroft: kwik-switch is nice
01:28 PM roycroft: it's a permanent install of the master
01:28 PM Rab: jesseg, I don't think you will be disappointed.
01:28 PM miss0r: I'm sure, I don't know it to be honnest
01:28 PM roycroft: and less than 1/4 turn to lock the tooling in place
01:28 PM jesseg: Rab, me neither
01:28 PM `Wolf: miss0r: https://www.bidspotter.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/comly-auctioneers/catalogue-id-bscco10103/lot-5b7f9206-2c81-4c66-89b2-a91801564908 was still sitting for $200
01:28 PM miss0r: roycroft: I wonder how stable it is ?
01:28 PM roycroft: i don't know
01:29 PM roycroft: but bridgeport shipped BOSS mills with it for many many years
01:29 PM miss0r: wolf: Damn that is a beauty. My hear is just filled with regret that I did not buy it _D
01:29 PM `Wolf: I can’t move that with my truck lol
01:29 PM miss0r: wolf: I'm running a MH500C in the background as we speak. Lovely machine
01:29 PM miss0r: its got 'soul' :)
01:30 PM roycroft: well, lunch time
01:30 PM `Wolf: I would have been all about getting one of the big mills if I had room, and commercial power at my shop lol
01:30 PM roycroft: i'm going to pop into the maker space and verify the spindle at lunch - i'll be driving right by there
01:30 PM roycroft: no more speculation :)
01:31 PM miss0r: hehe. I still can't wrap my head around the fact that three phase is not for everyone in the US
01:31 PM jdh: almost unavailable
01:31 PM miss0r: go for it roycroft
01:31 PM roycroft: but it is
01:31 PM roycroft: everyone can get a vfd :)
01:31 PM miss0r: sure... but I have three phase 400v 63A
01:32 PM miss0r: its realy only apartments in the realy old part of copenhagen that only has one phase, and most of them have been upgraded to three by now
01:32 PM `Wolf: I wish, top here for residential is around 400A 220v single phase
01:33 PM miss0r: hehe. 400A :D That just doesn't sit well with me :D
01:33 PM jdh: how about 200A
01:34 PM `Wolf: 175-200A panel is common
01:34 PM `Wolf: house next to my mom’s has 400A service
01:34 PM miss0r: In Denmark the biggest residential panel is 63A
01:34 PM `Wolf: dual 200A panels…
01:35 PM miss0r: but theres no law against installing an industrial panel ofc. But it is unlikely that you will ever get more than 63A into your house.
01:36 PM `Wolf: I need to check with the power co if I can get 3 phase drop to my shop at some point
01:36 PM miss0r: But then again, if you do the math... single phase 110 volts @ 220 amps: 22kW, three phase 400 volt @ 63A: ~43kW
01:36 PM Beachbumpete1: damn man my autojoin list is not working...
01:37 PM miss0r: Beachbumpete1: I guess you'll be stuck with us then, ha? :]
01:37 PM `Wolf: lunch time and then back to degreasing drawers lol
01:37 PM miss0r: have fun
01:37 PM Beachbumpete1: hehe
01:38 PM `Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/1tZAOhm.jpg https://i.imgur.com/gLbOXN0.jpg loving it already
01:41 PM miss0r: wolf: I hear'ya. I bought a set of drawers not too long ago
01:41 PM `Wolf: I’m thinking about dumping my kennedy boxes now
01:42 PM miss0r: wolf: this is what it looks like in place: https://imgur.com/a/7GSASg8
01:43 PM `Wolf: nice =)
01:43 PM `Wolf: I need to order bins for the drawers still
01:44 PM miss0r: Yeah. I should've done that. Instead I just reused some stuff I had laying around. It is a mess, sadly
01:52 PM mase: Hi
01:52 PM miss0r: damn. The heat here is crazy. My aircon is having a hard time keeping up. Good thing the mill is soon done, I will need to shut it down or I am afraid it will overheat
01:52 PM miss0r: hello mase
01:53 PM mase: a overheating CNC
01:53 PM mase: what is getting hot ?
01:53 PM mase: can u show machine ?
01:54 PM miss0r: Everything is getting hot
01:54 PM miss0r: :]
01:54 PM miss0r: Its an old machine, so I don't want to give it a hot supper
01:54 PM mase: yes it is hot here in germany
01:54 PM mase: and it did not rain for a long long time
01:54 PM miss0r: This is denmark. My outside thermometer just dipped below 30c
01:55 PM miss0r: We haven't had rain here for almost 60 days now
01:55 PM mase: my girlfriends father is winemaker
01:55 PM miss0r: But, it seems we will get some early next week
01:55 PM miss0r: how're the plants holding up?
01:56 PM mase: fortunatly wine drellies have long roots
01:56 PM mase: really long root
01:56 PM mase: over 20 meter
01:56 PM miss0r: damn
01:56 PM miss0r: No wonder my grape wine is still alive
01:56 PM miss0r: The grass has been brown for almost a month now
01:57 PM mase: but even the old ones (over 30 years ) have hard time
01:57 PM mase: climate is changeing
01:58 PM mase: he can that that
01:58 PM miss0r: No doubt
01:58 PM mase: last week he told me
01:58 PM mase: as he was a kid
01:59 PM mase: he went with his father to havest the wine end of november
01:59 PM mase: this year we will havest mid of august
02:00 PM miss0r: yeah
02:00 PM mase: and the quality of wine changed to
02:01 PM gregcnc: jesseg MSC has decent prices on most things as long as you log in. Don't go by what you see if not logged in. Vactra 2 is $22
02:01 PM mase: because of the hot summer conditions it is really fast ready to havest
02:01 PM miss0r: I hope it will still be good wine
02:01 PM mase: the last 10 years were beautiful
02:02 PM mase: much sugar in the wine means less acid
02:02 PM mase: the last years were beautiful
02:02 PM mase: but is now so extrem
02:02 PM mase: the wine needs a bit of water
02:03 PM miss0r: yeah
02:04 PM gregcnc: miss0r great that you got the toolpath worked out
02:04 PM mase: we makeing white wine
02:04 PM mase: riesling
02:09 PM CaptHindsight: miss0r: have any good Swedish fire stories?
02:10 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight: Not realy :]
02:10 PM miss0r: A chopper did fly over our heads a few times with an infrared camera
02:10 PM miss0r: But that is about as close to fire danger as we got
02:13 PM hazzy-lab: CaptHindsight: My grandfather made national news for not evacuating LA during the Las Conchas fire, they took footage of him from a helicopter watering down his roof, and he was in it mid 80s, lol
02:16 PM CaptHindsight: hazzy-lab: did he save the house?
02:18 PM hazzy-lab: CaptHindsight: He did, and his life!
02:19 PM hazzy-lab: But the smoke damage was so bad it was still a mess
02:20 PM gregcnc: Capt, looks like we are having super weather for teh next week or so
02:20 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight: A friend of mine did manage to cut his finger pretty bad with a knife, while we were in the 'winderless'. I patched him together the best I could with the small first air box I brought along, and spend the next three hours with a 3rd friend rowing back to the cars, and then 30mins drive to the nearest hospital, where we waited most of the night... *sigh* but his finger is alright ;)
02:20 PM jdh: here too. super bad
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, last week wasn't too bad either
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: miss0r: dull knife?
02:21 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight: dullwhitted user, very sharp knife
02:22 PM miss0r: he was only a few degrees from cutting a tennant(?spell)
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: the fun of camping
02:22 PM nallar is now known as Ross
02:22 PM miss0r: Indeed.
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: tendon
02:22 PM miss0r: Indeed :]
02:23 PM miss0r: For the past few trips i've been on his ass about the way he uses the knife. This trip I decided to keep my mouth shut, as nothing ever happens anyway, so it would just be a waste of breath. and Boom
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: "customer emergency project alert" hah
02:24 PM mase: and boom
02:25 PM mase: what happend
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: don't you love people that have some emergency and don't think it through
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: then after bothering you decide to do something else
02:25 PM miss0r: yeah
02:25 PM miss0r: I get a few of those a month
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: the clock starts to run when
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: the email or call comes n
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: in
02:28 PM XXCoder: miss0r: some people dont learn unless they directly experence it
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: been noticing a trend of people trying to get free design services by asking for a quote without really knowing what they want
02:31 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight: I hate those guys.
02:31 PM miss0r: XXCoder: Yeah. I'm still not sure he will learn. I revoked his knife lisence for the remainder of the trip ;)
02:32 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: theres version of same thing in IT. They have "interview" for position, and they go around and have IT interviewee explain solution to some it problem
02:32 PM XXCoder: then just not hire
02:33 PM gregcnc: dang
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: unless they are paying me for the quote I only give vague answers
02:33 PM XXCoder: indeed
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: yeah job hiring is another
02:34 PM CaptHindsight: tell you after the interview that the job was filled but they do have another position available that pays 50% the rate of the one you contacted them about
02:35 PM roycroft: weird
02:35 PM roycroft: there is a round piece of plywood screwed to the top of that mill where the drawbar would normally drop down
02:35 PM roycroft: so i really don't know what the native spindle is
02:36 PM roycroft: oh well
02:36 PM roycroft: even if it's r8, i can't use the r8 taper
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: vendor lock in
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: some dope fell for it
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: maybe why the mill ended up at a makerspace
02:37 PM Rab: XXCoder, I can't believe there are companies actually trying to use interviews as a mechanical turk. But that would imply an even worse reality, people wasting time on inane interview problems for no practical purpose at all.
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: are mosquito bites supposed to blow up to the size of a golf ball?
02:39 PM XXCoder: yeserday was 95f and 15% humidity
02:39 PM XXCoder: in work space
02:39 PM Rab: Never seen that, sounds bad. Maybe wasp/bee/bedbug bites?
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: nope just lucky
02:40 PM Rab: Zika?
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: cancer
02:40 PM XXCoder: capt would be in dire straits
02:41 PM XXCoder: bug bite irration caused that area to go canerous?
02:41 PM roycroft: he does the walk of bites?
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: job interview stories
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: where you see the real behavior of the company
02:42 PM roycroft: capthindsight: the owner of the mill and his brother went in on a lot of two of them a few years ago
02:42 PM roycroft: they got the pair for $8k
02:42 PM roycroft: they only have room at their home shop for one of them, so the second one is on loan to the maker space
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: auction?
02:42 PM roycroft: i don't know
02:43 PM roycroft: i just know that's how it got there
02:43 PM roycroft: and it's not really a vendor lock in
02:43 PM roycroft: bridgeport spindles are interchangeable
02:43 PM roycroft: the quill is fitted to a specific head
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: 75F overcast and breezy today
02:43 PM roycroft: but the spindle can be swapped out at will
02:43 PM roycroft: it's about 32 here right now
02:44 PM roycroft: with a high of 38 today
02:44 PM roycroft: another scorcher
02:44 PM roycroft: i have an herb bed that i got half weeded on saturday, right before the heat wave
02:44 PM CaptHindsight: 24C for the farehnheightzihoffermanzimmershoitzingiggles impared
02:44 PM roycroft: i really need to finish that, but it's too darn hot to do snything outdoors
02:45 PM roycroft: i'm not fahrenheit impaired
02:45 PM roycroft: i'm fahrenheit hostile :)
02:45 PM XXCoder: 95f INSIDE building roycroft now thats extra fun lol
02:45 PM XXCoder: looks like same again today. in least humidity is insanely low so its easy to just pour water on myself and cool
02:46 PM XXCoder: my room right now is 85f. bad insulation lol
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: yeah but with 15% humidity, thats like 80F at 130% humidity
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: http://coolbandanas.com/vests/circulatory_cooling.htm
02:47 PM roycroft: current humidity here is 28%
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: there must be a Chinese version
02:47 PM roycroft: that makes all the difference
02:47 PM XXCoder: cheap at 599 lol
02:48 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: only bad thing about extreme low humdity is constant dry eyes
02:48 PM XXCoder: its irrating
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: can you drink beer all day to stay hydrated?
02:49 PM roycroft: negative
02:49 PM gregcnc: maybe if it's lawnmowing beer
02:49 PM roycroft: you can drink beer all day if you want to become dehydrated
02:49 PM XXCoder: not at work. lol. nor at home as I dont drink beer period
02:49 PM roycroft: you still have to pay the rent on lawnmower beer
02:50 PM XXCoder: rent impiles return
02:50 PM gregcnc: what about coffee?
02:50 PM roycroft: i have one of those infuser jugs
02:50 PM roycroft: i fill the infusion part with a few sprigs of mint and some fresh blackberries
02:50 PM roycroft: and drink the water it makes all day long
02:50 PM roycroft: very refreshing
02:50 PM roycroft: zero calories
02:50 PM roycroft: and it hydrates one well
02:51 PM XXCoder: h2o all day for me
02:51 PM XXCoder: h2o in me and h2o on me
02:52 PM CaptHindsight: http://coolbandanas.com/vests/gulpz.htm fill with slurpee before work
02:53 PM XXCoder: if I recall right, its only for water
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: 7-11 Slurpee cooling vest
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: refills are only $1.99
02:53 PM XXCoder: "Orders will be shipped within 3-4 days of the order being placed. There will be a $25 rush fee added to your order."
02:53 PM XXCoder: jeez
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.amazon.com/Personal-Microclimate-Body-Cooling-backpack/dp/B071FPR8P8/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_bs_tr_t_1/133-4752059-0108100
02:54 PM gregcnc: https://rocketpacks.de/
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: keep the whole family cool
02:56 PM XXCoder: gregcnc: lol looks lightweight :P
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.fastraceproducts.com/cool-suit-shirts/
02:59 PM XXCoder: LOL https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-44968509
03:00 PM XXCoder: also awful for donkey :(
03:01 PM XXCoder: more pics. you judge. http://www.nogoumfm.net/news/2018/07/%D8%B4%D8%A7%D9%87%D8%AF-%D9%85%D8%AD%D8%A7%D9%81%D8%B8%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%82%D8%A7%D9%87%D8%B1%D8%A9-%D8%AA%D9%88%D8%B6%D8%AD-%D8%AD%D9%82%D9%8A%D9%82%D8%A9-%D8%AA%D8%B2%D9%88%D9%8A%D8%B1/
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: and they will say this is fake as well https://odditymall.com/includes/content/lion-mane-dog-costume-1.jpg
03:04 PM XXCoder: :P
03:09 PM enleth: if you haven't already, make sure you see the recent NYC CNC video (WW208) on CNC machining lathe form tools
03:10 PM enleth: they machined 65 HRC HSS blank directly, no heat treatment
03:10 PM gregcnc: you mean the Harvey ad?
03:11 PM enleth: how on the earth was that an ad?
03:11 PM syyl: you mean what every other machineshop can do? ;)
03:11 PM syyl: hardmachining is no black magig
03:12 PM syyl: at least not since..uhm. 1999?
03:12 PM gregcnc: randomly clicking in the video will get you a harvey web page 90% of the time
03:12 PM enleth: maybe watch it instead of randomly clicking?
03:12 PM enleth: the page had a table he looked up several times
03:13 PM enleth: is any sort of tool review that finds out that a) the tool is actually up to spec and even beyond, b) is worth the price c) actually comes with a decent customer service, and that d) uses the manufactuer's datasheet/website for data, considered an "ad" nowadays?
03:14 PM enleth: oh noes, the product works, can't bash it - IT'S AN AD! RUN!
03:14 PM gregcnc: nothing new there
03:14 PM syyl: with industrial cutting tools thats what one expects ;)
03:14 PM gregcnc: sorry i just didn't it interesting
03:14 PM roycroft: some of the woodworking videos are insane
03:14 PM roycroft: especially the festool reviews
03:15 PM enleth: gregcnc: if you want to see what a youtube ad looks like, go watch Jimmy DiResta
03:15 PM roycroft: "that guy is using a festool tool while he's reviewing it! he is biased towards festool!"
03:15 PM enleth: gregcnc: just make sure you have a barf bag ready
03:15 PM gregcnc: nyccnc is enough to make me puke
03:15 PM roycroft: jimmy deresta was on "ask this old house" a while ago
03:15 PM roycroft: he's doing a good job marketing himself
03:16 PM enleth: syyl: well, I knew that it's possible, but never seen it in action, with speeds and feeds and some commentary
03:16 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: isnt that the job of ANY fulltime "youtuber"?
03:16 PM roycroft: i have never felt an urge to equate "youtube" with "altruism"
03:17 PM roycroft: and i don't mind youtube being used as an advertising medium
03:17 PM roycroft: i take issue with two things:
03:18 PM roycroft: 1. people who are paid to advertise stuff on youtube but deny that they are being paid to do so
03:18 PM roycroft: and, even more,
03:18 PM roycroft: 2. people who complain in youtube comments about the bias of the content provider
03:18 PM syyl: haha
03:18 PM syyl: the yt comments
03:18 PM roycroft: people should expect that and just ddal with it
03:18 PM roycroft: deal
03:18 PM syyl: its generally a mess
03:19 PM syyl: anyway
03:19 PM roycroft: a lot of the time people point me at videos which i know i have zero interest in watching
03:19 PM roycroft: but i'll often go there to be entertained by a few of the comments
03:19 PM roycroft: i generally get bored with that in a matter of a few seconds, though
03:19 PM Simonious: remind me the command to copy an outline from one surface to another in solidworks..
03:20 PM gregcnc: convert
03:20 PM Simonious: ohh yes, ty
03:21 PM enleth: gregcnc: BTW, do you recall any other public resource that shows a setup, feeds and speeds, actual machining footage and results for hard machining with enough detail to replicate the results? if that's "nothing new", there should be something
03:22 PM syyl: in fact thats nothing new
03:22 PM gregcnc: so were the parameters used different than the book paramwters?
03:22 PM syyl: you just have to look it up
03:22 PM syyl: hardmachining is no secret
03:22 PM syyl: and tooling suppliers will happily give you parameters
03:22 PM syyl: and help you adjust them for your application
03:22 PM syyl: and have descent literature
03:22 PM enleth: gregcnc: actually, yes, the datasheet only goes up to 55 HRC, so the fact that 65 machines just fine wasn't obvious
03:23 PM gregcnc: meh
03:25 PM enleth: I'm pretty sure there's a whole lot of stuff that's "nothing new" to someone out there, but might be to you in particular, or someone else on this channel
03:25 PM gregcnc: sure no problemw ith that
03:25 PM enleth: not everyone here is a professional machinist, trained as such at a school or during an apprenticeship in an actual machine shop
03:26 PM gregcnc: i'm one of those
03:26 PM gregcnc: that isn't
03:26 PM syyl: i can garantee you that i learned nothing about hardmilling in apprenticeship ;)
03:26 PM syyl: but thats not the point anyway
03:27 PM syyl: what john does is great, he brings topics like that to an large audience
03:27 PM syyl: in a rehashed format
03:27 PM enleth: gregcnc: then why go "meh" on the channel and not just "OK, nothing new to me but someone's probably going to learn a thing or two here, no point speaking up that it's of no value to me"
03:27 PM enleth: gregcnc: what for?
03:27 PM gregcnc: maybe I'm just over YT
03:28 PM enleth: what does that even mean?
03:28 PM gregcnc: better places to learn things the YT
03:28 PM gregcnc: than YT
03:28 PM enleth: what places?
03:29 PM gregcnc: MFG sites for one
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: anyone else watch the Food Network?
03:30 PM gregcnc: I've looked at so many catalogs for stuff I'll probably never use myself, but I know it exists
03:31 PM enleth: gregcnc: I'm pretty sure catalogs won't tell you: a) how should the machine behave when it cuts properly b) how to tell that it doesn't c) how it sounds when it does/doesn't, d) how the chips look when it does/doesn't
03:32 PM gregcnc: you still need to experience your setup to learn what works
03:32 PM enleth: a high quality video with commentary does, next best thing after actually looking over someone's shoulder when they're doing stuff
03:32 PM enleth: also tricks for non-obvious setups
03:33 PM enleth: I don't think there's any other way, except for actual apprenticeship, to learn setups and workholding
03:33 PM enleth: drawings in books only go so far
03:35 PM enleth: and more generally, I find it difficult to take a very general claim regarding "the YT" seriously - it's just a fucking content delivery platform, the content itself is produced by individuals; sure there are some problems with the community, sure a huge bunch of content creators are shills producing bullshit, or just well-intentioned but completely uninteresting and/or producting low quality stuff due
03:35 PM enleth: to lack of skill or equipment
03:36 PM gregcnc: wow man, i'm sorry I said anything. yt is the end all
03:36 PM enleth: but there are some who put enormous amounts of time into delivering actually useful, informative content you can learn from, genuinely for free, and I see such comments as unfair towards them
03:36 PM enleth: gregcnc: no, it is not
03:36 PM enleth: gregcnc: where did I say that it is?
03:36 PM gregcnc: TV is the same
03:36 PM gregcnc: NEWs
03:36 PM gregcnc: all meedia gets crapped on
03:36 PM gregcnc: so what
03:37 PM enleth: gregcnc: please, really pretty please, don't use strawman arguments
03:37 PM syyl: speaking of news, got my t&c grinder in place and hooked up to 3phase :D
03:37 PM syyl: http://gtwr.de/div/knuth_werkzeugschleifmaschine_018.jpg
03:37 PM gregcnc: it looks neat
03:37 PM syyl: and beeing part of the problem, time to do a video on it ;)
03:37 PM enleth: gregcnc: they make you look like an ass and don't prove anything, I never said that YT "is end all" and you *know* it, but you still took that "argument" full steam ahead into the other extreme. what for?
03:38 PM gregcnc: ?
03:38 PM enleth: 22:35 < gregcnc> wow man, i'm sorry I said anything. yt is the end all
03:38 PM enleth: that was completely unnecessary
03:38 PM enleth: why?
03:38 PM enleth: I mean, why say it?
03:38 PM gregcnc: i'm sorry?
03:39 PM XXCoder: "it's all same" contains its own refute.
03:39 PM enleth: gregcnc: I'm not actually offended, but I am confused
03:40 PM syyl: just walk on
03:41 PM gregcnc: syyl how is the spindle project
03:41 PM CaptHindsight: man it's hot today
03:41 PM enleth: and maybe slightly sad that we can't have a discussion that ends up with everyone knowing more than they did and satisfied
03:41 PM syyl: the 5c spindexer?
03:41 PM gregcnc: yes
03:41 PM syyl: most parts are hardturned
03:41 PM syyl: and the ID of the spindle is lapped to a slide fit on the collets
03:42 PM syyl: just need more time ;)
03:42 PM syyl: lots of grinding and lapping left
03:42 PM syyl: hope it works as i expect
03:43 PM syyl: didnt find a video with a tutorial how to build one, had to use skf and timken literature ;)
03:43 PM `Wolf: to make not so sharp bits even duller?
03:43 PM `Wolf: oh wait missed the spindle part
03:43 PM syyl: :D
03:44 PM gregcnc: similar overall to renzetti?
03:44 PM syyl: nope - robin uses loose balls between the spindle and the housing
03:44 PM syyl: about a million of them
03:44 PM syyl: ;)
03:44 PM `Wolf: I lost bid for deckle grinder :(
03:44 PM syyl: i just some P4 nsk bearings
03:45 PM syyl: it will be less rigid, but fits my current skillset more..
03:45 PM gregcnc: ok i didn't catch that
03:45 PM `Wolf: but, I also have no idea if I would make use of a t&c grinder…
03:45 PM syyl: i dont plan to regrind dull drills with it ;)
03:46 PM syyl: i bought it for odd grinding work that i cant do on the surface grinder - because the t&c grinder has a way larger work envelope
03:46 PM syyl: and has a motordriven headstock for OD-grinding
03:46 PM `Wolf: yeah, odd sized work envelop
03:47 PM `Wolf: one I was bidding on was a single lip grinder
03:47 PM syyl: those are brilliant usefull
03:47 PM `Wolf: but I was more worried about getting the surface grinder and all the bits to go with it
03:47 PM syyl: :D
03:48 PM `Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/gLbOXN0.jpg =)
03:48 PM syyl: haha the two dressers on the left are already worth a fortune
03:50 PM * `Wolf looks for his auction receipt
03:50 PM roycroft: i have a drill doctor that i use for sharpening small drills
03:50 PM roycroft: i have a grinder and two hands and a bright light for sharpening large drills
03:51 PM `Wolf: $105 + 21% for all the dressers in that drawer =)
03:51 PM roycroft: i would find other uses for a fancy grinder, though
03:52 PM roycroft: whenever i get my personal mill converted to cnc an end mill grinder would be useful
03:52 PM syyl: for regrinding endmills i just send them out ;)
03:52 PM roycroft: i don't even do that now
03:52 PM syyl: they can do them better than i could ever
03:52 PM syyl: and recoat them
03:52 PM roycroft: when manually milling i find it a lot easier to just use exact size mills and not reground, undersize mills
03:52 PM `Wolf: syyl: https://i.imgur.com/uIKjTwY.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Jw1eOEg.jpg
03:53 PM roycroft: but with cnc i can just program the mill size into the tool table
03:53 PM syyl: nice! 6x12 grinder?
03:53 PM roycroft: i do have a drawer full of end mills that need grinding, though
03:53 PM `Wolf: yup Reid 618HL
03:53 PM roycroft: i don't toss them out
03:53 PM syyl: i keep my carbide scrap for selling
03:53 PM syyl: prices are quite good
03:54 PM `Wolf: I need to figure out where in the hell I’m going to store all the grinding wheels lol
03:54 PM syyl: :D
03:55 PM `Wolf: I think I made out pretty damn good w/ all the crap I got from this auction
03:55 PM syyl: want to tell the price you paid? :D
03:55 PM syyl: or better not?
03:56 PM `Wolf: $450 for the 618, $25 for the wall of wheels
03:56 PM syyl: haha
03:56 PM syyl: thats awesome
03:56 PM enleth: `Wolf: lucky bastard
03:56 PM `Wolf: 105 for all the dressers, $140 for all the toolmakers vises
03:56 PM syyl: thats great
03:56 PM gregcnc: oh did the grinder turn out to be in good shape?
03:57 PM `Wolf: ways dont look too bad
03:57 PM `Wolf: I came back in the house to grab a light and take some pics but AC felt good lol
03:57 PM `Wolf: still all that IMO best score https://i.imgur.com/1tZAOhm.jpg this cabinet
03:57 PM gregcnc: did you inspect before bidding or just take a chance?
03:58 PM `Wolf: just took a gamble
03:58 PM `Wolf: its a V way non roller machine so at worst learn how to scrape
03:58 PM syyl: :)
03:59 PM `Wolf: 6 drawer vidmar 30x44” $40
03:59 PM gregcnc: nice
04:00 PM `Wolf: $203 for the other, 19 drawer with 5 full of endmills
04:01 PM `Wolf: all HSS with some regrind some new
04:01 PM roycroft: do you ever have time to actually make stuff, wolf?
04:02 PM `Wolf: not really lmao
04:02 PM roycroft: or do you spend all your time buying and selling machinery and tooling?
04:02 PM `Wolf: just been picking stuff up to get overly setup
04:02 PM `Wolf: I really didn’t need all the endmills that are in that cabinet but why the hell not
04:02 PM roycroft: it seems you hit an auction and come home with a truckload or so of stuff nearly every week
04:03 PM synfinatic_ is now known as synfinatic
04:04 PM roycroft: look for some of that kwik-switch stuff for me, please :)
04:04 PM `Wolf: I’ve done 2 auctions, one full shop from a high school friends dad and a mess of misc stuff from a guy who buys industrial lots to flip as a hobby
04:04 PM roycroft: i'm really leaning towards getting it
04:05 PM roycroft: i've seen a couple posts on forums saying that the kwik-swithc spindle is nice but the r8 adapter is not
04:05 PM roycroft: but no explanation as to why
04:05 PM syyl: i guess it ads an awfull lot of overhang?
04:05 PM syyl: and stacks tolerances
04:05 PM `Wolf: probably the added length sticking out of the spindle
04:05 PM roycroft: there is that
04:05 PM roycroft: and i can see that
04:06 PM roycroft: but imo it's no worse than using one of those set screw tool holders vs a collet
04:06 PM roycroft: and folks use set screw tool holders all the time
04:06 PM syyl: the setscrew holders run incredible true
04:06 PM roycroft: yes, but they stick out a lot
04:06 PM `Wolf: guess it depends on how tight the kwik holds
04:07 PM roycroft: i tried it out when i was measuring it at lunch
04:07 PM enleth: roycroft: ugh, you have a kwik-switch machine? doesn't that have even more tooling availability problems than Erickson Quick Change?
04:07 PM roycroft: it seems to be very solid
04:07 PM `Wolf: TTS and R8 don’t stick out much
04:07 PM `Wolf: I think…
04:07 PM roycroft: at the maker space it's kwik-switch
04:07 PM enleth: getting anything for my QC30 spindle is a PITA, I can't imagine using something that even more rare
04:08 PM roycroft: and yes, tooling availabity is still a concern
04:08 PM `Wolf: I don’t have any R8 set screw holders actually
04:08 PM enleth: at least someone still makes QC stuff
04:08 PM roycroft: there are kwik-switch clones that are still being made
04:09 PM roycroft: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/06621478
04:09 PM roycroft: for example
04:09 PM enleth: it doesn't even look like you could take an ISO30 holder and modify it to fit
04:09 PM enleth: that's possible with *some* holders to make them fit a QC30
04:09 PM roycroft: i'm still deciding what to do
04:09 PM `Wolf: roycroft: I wasn’t planning on getting a surface grinder right yet, just auction timing threw a wrench in to the works, 2hr away with what I was looking for… so now I got it, with no place to put it lol
04:10 PM roycroft: the enticing thing about kwik-switch is that i would not have to use the drawbar any more
04:10 PM roycroft: but if there's a tooling issue, then i can
04:10 PM roycroft: since my mill at home is r8
04:10 PM roycroft: i'd just have to remove the kwik-switch master when i need to use r8 tooling
04:11 PM roycroft: interoperability with the machine at the maker space would be nice, but i'm not going to invest hundreds of dollars just for that
04:11 PM enleth: roycroft: but you do need a good hook wrench, a *very* well working spindle brake and often a rubber mallet for tool extraction, if KS is anything like QC when its worn out
04:11 PM roycroft: especially when that machine could go away tomorrow
04:11 PM roycroft: or my access to the maker space goes away
04:11 PM enleth: QC tends to hold very well when worn, but has huge problems extracting tools properly
04:11 PM roycroft: i'm looking for something for my machne at home
04:12 PM roycroft: the kwik-switch is spring-loaded
04:12 PM roycroft: when i was playing with the one at the maker space it ejected the tooling nicely
04:12 PM enleth: ah, ok
04:12 PM roycroft: the toolholders have two tabs on them
04:12 PM roycroft: with a precision ground surface
04:13 PM roycroft: you push the holder into the spindle so the tabs seat, and twist the collar to lock it in place
04:13 PM roycroft: the spindle has springs that push down on the tabs when unlocked
04:13 PM enleth: QC has two pais of "ears" on the locking ring inside the collar, one to hold the tool by the front of the flange, the other to extract against the back of the flange
04:13 PM enleth: if it's worn out, you can adjust it so that it keeps holding tools in properly
04:13 PM enleth: but then it gains clearance over the extracting ears
04:13 PM roycroft: i don't know how worn the spindle at the maker space is
04:13 PM enleth: so they stop extracting
04:14 PM roycroft: i have no concept of how kwik-switch behaves when well worn
04:14 PM enleth: probably better if spring loaded
04:14 PM roycroft: my original plan was to use the tormach system when i convert my mill to cnc
04:14 PM roycroft: and perhaps i'll end up doing that still
04:15 PM roycroft: i don't like reaching up to the top of the mill, loosening the drawbar, and tapping it with a hammer to release tooling
04:15 PM roycroft: kwik-switch eliminates that, which is what i really like about it
04:15 PM roycroft: but when i do the cnc conversion i can always add a pneumatic drawbar actuator
04:16 PM enleth: that's funny, I'd actually put a drawbar in my bridgeport just to be able to use non-QC tooling - if not for the fact that the damn thing came with a solid spindle
04:16 PM roycroft: that's the beauty of what i have, i suppose
04:16 PM roycroft: my machine does have an r8 spindle
04:16 PM syyl: friend of mine hat a series2 bp with a non-trough spindle for some kind of qc tooling
04:16 PM roycroft: so i can use non kwik-switch tooling if/when needed
04:17 PM syyl: he gundrilled it and machine a #30 taper in the end ;)
04:17 PM roycroft: like my slitting cutter, face mill, and boring head
04:17 PM enleth: syyl: most likely QC30, like mine
04:17 PM roycroft: and all my chucks
04:17 PM enleth: if I were in the US, I could probably go to a gunsmith next door and have that drilled
04:17 PM roycroft: of course, when i cnc convert my machine i'll be doing a lot fewer tooling changes anyway
04:17 PM syyl: he did it on the lathe, with a gearpump hooked up to a gundrill..
04:18 PM syyl: but still no fun
04:18 PM enleth: but there are no gunsmiths around here, and most generic job shops are scared of the job or quote a crazy price
04:18 PM roycroft: i'll often pilot drill, drill, ream, chamfer, tap one hole, then reposition the mill, repeat, until it's all done
04:18 PM roycroft: that takes about the same amount of time as manually cranking it to the next position
04:18 PM roycroft: and is less error-prone
04:19 PM roycroft: but involves a buttload of tooling changes
04:19 PM roycroft: so once it's cnc'ed then maybe i won't mind the drawbar so much
04:20 PM roycroft: tts is a lot cheaper than kwik-switch
04:20 PM roycroft: it definitely has that going for it
04:20 PM enleth: BTW, I've been looking at how a spring-based BP drawbar kit usually works and it looks like it transfers all the unclamping force during a tool change through the main bearings
04:22 PM roycroft: i think i've read that somewhere
04:22 PM enleth: that's half a ton through the bearings if I remember the recommended drawbar tension for ISO30 correctly
04:22 PM `Wolf: after market kit or something BP sold?
04:23 PM enleth: Wolf_: aftermarket belville spring stuff
04:23 PM enleth: the ones that are constantly under tension and have the cylinder push on top to compress the springs
04:23 PM `Wolf: ok, I was going to do https://i.imgur.com/OeR3fzr.jpg but someone in here talked me out of it due to the load on the brearings
04:24 PM roycroft: you're talking about the belleville washer type?
04:24 PM enleth: exactly this
04:24 PM roycroft: that's what all the folks use on the home shop cnc mill conversions
04:24 PM Tom_L: iirc zeeshan was rebuilding one of those
04:25 PM enleth: but that can't be good for the bearings
04:25 PM `Wolf: I’m redoing it with a floating plate
04:26 PM roycroft: it's in their strongest plane though
04:26 PM roycroft: those spindles can take a much higher axial load than radial load
04:26 PM `Wolf: so it will clamp the spring washers and something under the pulley
04:27 PM `Wolf: hmm, really?
04:27 PM gregcnc: does the force exceed the bearing thrust rating?
04:27 PM gregcnc: what does hitting the drawbar with a hammer do?
04:28 PM `Wolf: lol true
04:28 PM `Wolf: I might have to look it up
04:28 PM `Wolf: I still need to do a floating plate on the Jet mill if I still want to use the quill tho
04:28 PM Deejay: gn8
04:29 PM roycroft: how does one unload the toolholder with one of those things anyway?
04:29 PM `Wolf: TTS collet
04:29 PM Tom_L: it would be directly porportional to how tight you sucked the taper up into the hole
04:29 PM roycroft: you can't spin it off when the drawbar is pushed down unless you remove the pin inside the spindle
04:29 PM roycroft: which i know a lot of folks do anyway
04:30 PM roycroft: oh, yeah, with a tts collet that would work
04:30 PM `Wolf: well, I feel dumbs, never thought about not needing the pin with the air cylinder
04:30 PM roycroft: but then it would not be possible to use any r8 tooling if there's something not available in tts
04:31 PM `Wolf: like you just said, spin it in from the bottom because the force at the top is going to lock the drawbar
04:31 PM roycroft: yes, if you remove the pin
04:32 PM roycroft: which really isn't needed in the first place
04:32 PM `Wolf: X2 the pin is held in by the spindle seal lol
04:32 PM `Wolf: no idea how I haven’t lost mine yet
04:34 PM roycroft: for these parts that i'm going to make that are too long to machine in one go on my home mill, if i make a holder for them i can figure out a way to reindex them for the second half pretty easily, i think
04:34 PM roycroft: even less reason to use the makerspace machine, once i get mine cnc'ed
04:34 PM Tom_L: what about diagonal? will they fit that way?
04:34 PM roycroft: no
04:34 PM roycroft: it's a small mill-drill
04:34 PM roycroft: i have about 450mm of x travel
04:35 PM roycroft: and the parts are ~610mm long
04:35 PM `Wolf: if you have a hole or something that gets cut out, on 1st setup drill a hole in it to index from
04:35 PM `Wolf: or 2
04:35 PM roycroft: yes, that's how i would index it
04:35 PM Tom_L: put a stop on each end and program each half to the stop on that end
04:35 PM roycroft: there will be a series of holes
04:35 PM Tom_L: i seriously could use 2 vised on this job but i've only got one
04:36 PM roycroft: for this project i've already envisioned a holder that i can make that will index the parts quickly and accurately
04:36 PM roycroft: and if i attach a piece of 5/8" square bar on the bottom of the holder i should be able to index it to the brigeport really quickly by using a t-slot
04:36 PM `Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/XmoaH9j.jpg when I made this I used 2 of the mounting holes to index, one of them was set as origin in cam
04:36 PM roycroft: that would get it really close
04:37 PM roycroft: then a light pass on the bottom and the back side (it would be an l-shaped holder) would dial it in for a run
04:37 PM Tom_L: i'm trying to write all my code so i don't have to reset the tools for each position
04:38 PM Tom_L: moving the model around in cam so it comes out
04:41 PM Contract_Pilot: Sup..
04:42 PM Contract_Pilot: Work Bench Nearly Done.. https://youtu.be/OCQQro2o9b0
04:52 PM roycroft: so onto another cnc-related thing
04:52 PM roycroft: i've never done machine tapping - always hand tapped
04:53 PM roycroft: what kind of taps do folks like for through and blind tapping on a cnc mill?
04:53 PM roycroft: i'm thinking spiral cut taps would be good, downcut for through and upcut for blind?
04:54 PM jthornton: spiral point for through holes and spiral flute for blind holes
04:54 PM roycroft: ok
04:55 PM roycroft: i'll experiment over time with different types, of course, but i'd like to start out with some that will work well
04:55 PM hazzy-lab: Contract_Pilot: Those are some nice props :)
04:56 PM hazzy-lab: What is the one with the wood stock?
04:56 PM roycroft: my first project will not need any tapped holes at all - just a series of precisely reamed holes
04:56 PM roycroft: but i'm sure i'll be doing some tapping very soon
04:57 PM jthornton: roycroft, osg ElektraLUBE taps are the best I've found for use on steel or aluminum
04:58 PM hazzy-lab: Contract_Pilot: ah, looks like an AK!
05:05 PM roycroft: thanks, jthornton
05:05 PM roycroft: i'll give them a go first, since those are the two metals i work with the most
05:11 PM roycroft: hmm, for the boring head i could always get a straight shank and hold it in a collet on the kwik-switch machine
05:13 PM roycroft: same with the face mill and slitting saw arbor
05:13 PM roycroft: it gets a bit funky doing all that adapting though
05:23 PM roycroft: argh
05:23 PM roycroft: it's 36 degrees right now
05:24 PM roycroft: and i have to go to my shop
05:24 PM roycroft: it's probably 42 there
05:24 PM roycroft: perhaps i can go out and turn on the a/c and get out of ther before i pass out
05:24 PM roycroft: and return in an hour
05:31 PM roycroft: 43, but the ac is on now
05:48 PM Contract_Pilot: AK Yugo M70
06:34 PM andypugh: cradek: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8X2Ao_UzRM
06:34 PM andypugh: (And anyone else who likes clocks)
06:40 PM roycroft: i am an horophile
06:44 PM roycroft: neat clock
06:45 PM roycroft: those led tubes are kind of like edison filaments
06:46 PM andypugh: That is what they are intended to simulate, in their natural home, in light-bulbs
06:51 PM roycroft: it's down to 41 in my shop
06:51 PM roycroft: the a/c is working, albeit slowly
06:51 PM roycroft: i might be able to go out there and pretend to do some work in an hour or so
06:52 PM roycroft: it's still 37 outside, and we're at the peak heat of the day
06:53 PM Rab: andypugh, very nice, but is it difficult to look at?
06:56 PM Contract_Pilot: must be C not F i would be cold at 41F
07:02 PM gloops: this is unbearable weather
07:02 PM gloops: i think i was made for the cold
07:03 PM roycroft: it is c
07:03 PM roycroft: and it is hot
07:03 PM roycroft: hot
07:03 PM roycroft: hot
07:04 PM roycroft: we're having uk weather right now1
07:04 PM roycroft: !
07:04 PM roycroft: actually, i think the highest temperature every recorded in great britain was 38.5 or so
07:04 PM roycroft: and it's only 37 here today
07:04 PM roycroft: but it was 40 outside on monday
07:05 PM roycroft: it used to rarely hit 40 degrees here in the summer
07:05 PM roycroft: like once every few years
07:05 PM roycroft: lately it's been several days/year
07:15 PM CaptHindsight: broklyn ny
07:16 PM CaptHindsight: .weather brooklyn
07:16 PM hazzy-lab: This has been one of the coolest summers we have ever had here in the south, interesting that the west is hotter than usual
07:24 PM Contract_Pilot: 36C Here In Vancouver WA My Shop is 26C but i have a Heat Pump Water Heater = Small AC and Big Dehumidifier
07:25 PM roycroft: it's down to 39 in my shop now
07:25 PM roycroft: another 10 degrees and it will be tolerable
07:27 PM roycroft: and the humidity is down to 21% outside
07:27 PM Contract_Pilot: Yea, I want it cooler i take a nice hot shower kick on the AC haha or tell wife to take a bath hahaha
07:27 PM gloops: roycroft 36C here today, i know other places have it warmer, but we're more used to 12C
07:28 PM roycroft: it's 36 here right now
07:28 PM roycroft: it was 37 a few minutes ago
07:28 PM Contract_Pilot: roy location?
07:28 PM roycroft: we reach our peak temperature around 5pm this time of year, and it's 5:30 at the moment
07:28 PM roycroft: eugene oregon
07:28 PM Contract_Pilot: Ahhh just south of me..
07:29 PM Contract_Pilot: Vancouver, WA
07:29 PM roycroft: "the other vancouver"
07:29 PM gloops: its also the length of this heatwave, a few days of 30C+ - no problem, 6 weeks of it is killing us
07:29 PM roycroft: yes, it's been quite the ordeal in the uk
07:29 PM roycroft: you're really not used to it
07:30 PM roycroft: we get 6 weeks of heat every summer
07:30 PM roycroft: usually we get zero rain from early july until the end of august
07:30 PM roycroft: and prolonged hot temperatures
07:30 PM roycroft: but this is hot even for us
07:30 PM roycroft: low 30s is hot here
07:30 PM roycroft: not upper 30s/lower 40s
07:30 PM Contract_Pilot: Looks like Tormach in their new M Machine Integrated the Mesa 7I92 in to their BO
07:30 PM Contract_Pilot: BOB
07:30 PM gloops: everything is dead, all the grass, theres only been 1 cut of hay when theres normally 2 or 3
07:31 PM roycroft: there's a huge fire in eastern oregon right now, on the columbia river gorge
07:31 PM roycroft: 65,000 acres
07:31 PM roycroft: it's all wheat fields
07:31 PM Contract_Pilot: Wonder if Mesa Authorized it?
07:31 PM roycroft: and the harvest was just about to begin when the fire broke out
07:31 PM roycroft: it was probably some dumbass tossing a cigarette butt out his car window
07:31 PM andypugh: Contract_Pilot: It’s open-source.
07:32 PM roycroft: they're still trying to figure out how it started
07:32 PM Contract_Pilot: is it?
07:32 PM roycroft: but if there's a road nearby, it's almost always a dumbass
07:32 PM roycroft: if it's in wilderness, it's almost always lightning
07:32 PM Contract_Pilot: The kid that started the fireslas year is still free.
07:32 PM andypugh: Well, the hostmot2 code is. So if you have an off the shellf FPGA running the code, is it a Mesa clone or not?
07:32 PM roycroft: yes, but he's going to be paying for it for many, many years
07:33 PM roycroft: he has to do community service on weekends for like 10 years
07:33 PM roycroft: and he has huge fines to pay, over the course of probably his entire working career
07:33 PM andypugh: Contract_Pilot: Do you have a picture of the board in question?
07:33 PM roycroft: the judge did not want to destroy the kid's life
07:33 PM roycroft: but the judge wanted to make sure that the kid never, ever forgets what he did
07:33 PM Contract_Pilot: Trying to get somone to take a photo of it..
07:35 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.ebay.com/itm/MENS-30INCH-Flat-Link-Chain-Cast-In-925-Sterling-Silver-465g-approx-Stamped-925/302712567078 I was looking for a small silver chain. Is this a chain, or a lethal weapon?
07:36 PM roycroft: it's pretty ugly is waht it is
07:36 PM CaptHindsight: gangster speed
07:36 PM SpeedEvil: Indeed. A pound of silver.
07:36 PM roycroft: you can buy a kilo of silver for a lot less than that
07:36 PM SpeedEvil: indeed
07:36 PM roycroft: oh, it's only 465g
07:36 PM Contract_Pilot: But i got my VFD on the 3 year Project lathe working..
07:36 PM CaptHindsight: yah hommies are gonna luv dat
07:37 PM SpeedEvil: setting up to be able to cast that once may pay for it
07:37 PM roycroft: i need to get back to working on my lathe at some point
07:37 PM roycroft: and my plan is to replace the single phase motor with a 2hp 3 phase motor and a vfd
07:38 PM roycroft: the lathe is belt drive
07:38 PM roycroft: and i do not changing speeds on it
07:40 PM andypugh: Contract_Pilot: If the BoB has 4 tiny little driver chips and two RJ45 connectors pointing in different directions then I might have seen it.
07:42 PM Contract_Pilot: They label it ECM1
07:42 PM SpeedEvil: roycroft: seems reasonable
07:43 PM Contract_Pilot: I need a 72" L X 24" W X 30" T Cast Iron Base..
07:43 PM roycroft: it will also free up a 2hp motor for something else
07:44 PM * hazzy-m uploaded an image: Screenshot_2018-07-26_20-43-45.png (14KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/nNpalwpPosbRHcBpYTYmPplk >
07:44 PM hazzy-m: oops, wrong chan
07:52 PM jesseg: gregcnc, ahh thanks for the tip about MSC.. I didn't know that, already ordered it -- paid more at McMaster-Carr -- but not much more and I really like how easy it is to use McMaster-Carr
07:55 PM jesseg: hey guys so if I was to need to rebuild my BP clone variator head would your advice to be to do it, or to simply replace it with something better -- and what would that be?
07:55 PM hazzy-lab: jesseg: Is the machine manual or converted to CNC?
07:56 PM jesseg: hazzy-dev, it's just manual now, but I intend to convert it to CNC
07:57 PM hazzy-lab: Well, if you intend to convert it I might just put some plain pulleys on it and use a VFD
07:57 PM hazzy-lab: It is so much quieter than even a rebuilt reeves drive head
07:57 PM roycroft: what tip about msc?
07:58 PM roycroft: did gregcnc give you a tip on how to get sane pricing from them?
07:58 PM jesseg: roycroft, the tip that their oils are cheaper if you log in.
07:58 PM roycroft: oh
07:58 PM roycroft: i did that
07:58 PM roycroft: when they "migrated" me from enco
07:58 PM roycroft: promised i'd get the same pricing as i got at enco
07:58 PM roycroft: i set up an account and everything was 30-50% higher than it was at enco
07:59 PM CaptHindsight: the discounts were a money loser so they stopped that
08:00 PM roycroft: and what i got from them was basically "well, all you have to do is spent $10k/month with us and you'll get better pricing"
08:00 PM hazzy-lab: roycroft: for me they were higher than enco prices, but still way lower then the MSC prices, by 40% sometimes
08:00 PM CaptHindsight: I guess they didn't want customers that shop around for the best deals
08:01 PM roycroft: s/that shop around for the best deals//
08:02 PM CaptHindsight: they seem to cater to buyers that just buy without checking the price , similar to Grainger customers
08:02 PM roycroft: they cater to huge shops
08:02 PM roycroft: and give them big discounts
08:03 PM roycroft: if i had to deal with an account manager to place orders and ask a lot of questions, i can see having that kind of pricing structure
08:03 PM roycroft: but if i'm just going online and ordering stuff, the spread should not be as great as it is
08:03 PM roycroft: i should not have to spend thousands of dollars at a go to get decent pricing
08:03 PM Contract_Pilot: Yea, i need a Pulley also forgot to order oops
08:04 PM roycroft: mcmaster are a good place for pulleys
08:04 PM Contract_Pilot: No..
08:04 PM Tom_L: so is sdp-si
08:04 PM roycroft: the problem with mcmaster is that if you place an order it's shipped within 10 minutes
08:04 PM roycroft: so you can't ever change an order once placed
08:04 PM Tom_L: i think sdp-si has a better selection
08:04 PM roycroft: the nice thing about mcmaster is that if you do mess up an order they tell you to just refuse it when it arrives
08:04 PM Contract_Pilot: https://electricmotorwarehouse.com/content/pulley/pulley_sheave_menu.htm
08:04 PM roycroft: and they'll refund you 100%
08:05 PM roycroft: no restocking fees
08:06 PM roycroft: i try not to abuse it, but on more than one occasion i've forgotten something and i just reorder, adding the forgoten item, and refuse the first shipment
08:06 PM Contract_Pilot: https://www.bbman.com
08:06 PM roycroft: most vendors don't take kindly to that, but mcmaster actually encourage it
08:06 PM roycroft: grainger refuse to sell to me
08:06 PM roycroft: not that i really want to buy stuff from them
08:07 PM Contract_Pilot: Grainger is Zoro...
08:07 PM roycroft: but even in an emergency, they flatly refuse to sell to me
08:07 PM roycroft: for the most ridiculous reason imaginable
08:07 PM roycroft: they are "wholesale only"
08:07 PM Contract_Pilot: I like my local Grainger they willmatch Zoro Price locally
08:07 PM CaptHindsight: McMaster tried a lock box for night pickups
08:07 PM roycroft: and require a state sales tax exempt number
08:07 PM Contract_Pilot: Had to go ounds with them but they caved.. '
08:07 PM roycroft: we have no sales tax in oregon
08:07 PM CaptHindsight: not sure if they kept it going
08:08 PM roycroft: but they say that a salex tax exempt number is the only documentation they will accept
08:08 PM Contract_Pilot: Roy Portland?
08:08 PM roycroft: my federal employer id number is not good enough for them
08:08 PM roycroft: eugene
08:09 PM Contract_Pilot: They will sell just call and get an account #
08:09 PM roycroft: i guess what i need to do if i want to buy from grainger is start a business in washington state and give them my washington state tax id number
08:09 PM roycroft: i tried multiple times, contract_pilot
08:09 PM Contract_Pilot: no...
08:09 PM roycroft: they told me they needed a reseller tax exempt number
08:10 PM roycroft: and being in eugene, they know damn well that we don't have sales tax and such a number does not exist in this state
08:10 PM roycroft: grainger are retail +20% anyway on everything
08:10 PM roycroft: i would only use them in a dire emergency
08:10 PM Contract_Pilot: they will sell to you just make an account..
08:11 PM roycroft: they won't let me make an account without that non-existant number
08:11 PM roycroft: that's what i tried to do, multiple times
08:11 PM roycroft: maybe they've figured it out finally
08:11 PM roycroft: i haven't tried in 20 years or so
08:11 PM Contract_Pilot: Go online make an account
08:11 PM roycroft: they pissed me off so much i wanted nothing to do with them
08:12 PM Contract_Pilot: Yea,
08:12 PM roycroft: next time i have an emergency i'll give it another go
08:12 PM roycroft: maybe it's only been 15 years
08:12 PM roycroft: i don't remember, but it was a long time ago the last time i tried
08:12 PM gloops: trump might be able to announce 4% growth figures tomorrow, if so, a very good spell for the usa
08:12 PM roycroft: trump makes up everything he says
08:12 PM roycroft: and his base believe it all
08:12 PM hazzy-lab: gloops: Hurray!
08:12 PM roycroft: and everyone else rolls their eyes
08:13 PM roycroft: trump's a fucking asshole who is doing his best to destroy this country
08:13 PM roycroft: which is what his base wants
08:14 PM gloops: roycroft he doesnt make the economic growth figures up
08:14 PM roycroft: he is the most unamerican president we've had since at least andrew johnson
08:14 PM roycroft: yes he does
08:14 PM roycroft: he's been making them up for decades
08:14 PM Contract_Pilot: But get zoro pricing and 10% discounnt + coupon code honor = grainger viable.
08:14 PM Contract_Pilot: Same company..
08:14 PM gloops: how can he? its the same institution that produces the figures that did for Obama
08:15 PM roycroft: i'm about to use strong language
08:15 PM roycroft: and i don't want to
08:15 PM Contract_Pilot: Roy like Grainger will no sell to you? BS
08:15 PM roycroft: so please drop this line of discussion
08:15 PM gloops: for someone looking from the outside, Trump is THE most American president since Reagan
08:15 PM roycroft: see above
08:15 PM jesseg: gloops, outside?
08:16 PM roycroft: our president does not represent american values AT ALL
08:16 PM Contract_Pilot: Unless ya did somthing to grainger to make them not want to sell to you..
08:16 PM roycroft: and if you think what he does represents us, you have a pretty poor opinion of this country and its people
08:16 PM roycroft: and a pretty damn inaccurate one
08:17 PM roycroft: now, please drop this
08:17 PM hazzy-lab: roycroft: He may not represent what you think are "American" values
08:17 PM gloops: jesseg yeah im in the UK, old Trump is the personification of the 'yank' to us
08:17 PM hazzy-lab: but lets not get into this, lol
08:17 PM Contract_Pilot: My american Values he Supports..
08:17 PM roycroft: PLEASE!
08:17 PM jesseg: roycroft, which president do you most closely agree with? (or presidential candidate)
08:17 PM roycroft: i agree with changing the subject
08:17 PM Contract_Pilot: 2A yes www.iff-inc.com
08:18 PM roycroft: more than anything else
08:18 PM hazzy-lab: Hehe, nice Contract_Pilot!
08:18 PM Contract_Pilot: Free Speach? Lisen to him Tal hahaha Rocket Man!!
08:18 PM jesseg: roycroft, or I guess more specifically, which president or past candidate would you say most closely represents American values?
08:19 PM gloops: americans are loud, gung ho, bombastic, theyve always been like that, you always hear a yank before you see him
08:20 PM jesseg: well naptime for me :D
08:20 PM ziper: jesseg, wait
08:20 PM hazzy-lab: gn8 jesseg
08:21 PM ziper: will you help me program an autonomous boat
08:21 PM jesseg: Thanks hazzy-dev :D
08:21 PM gloops: and we like that
08:21 PM jesseg: ziper, yes I will help you, but after my nap
08:21 PM ziper: ok
08:23 PM Contract_Pilot: Snowflake could not handle it..
08:23 PM Contract_Pilot: Hot there hot here..
08:24 PM hazzy-lab: lol
08:24 PM jesseg: yeah you know it is very interesting how people can only see their view as the only possible view and literally cannot control themselves when someone thinks differently.
08:24 PM gloops: Contract_Pilot lets see whos whining when the winter comes haha
08:24 PM Contract_Pilot: hahaha..
08:24 PM Contract_Pilot: I have a heated shop..
08:25 PM Contract_Pilot: Snow flake prob has a window AC
08:25 PM Contract_Pilot: I melt snowflakes fast..
08:26 PM gloops: the thing with the yanks, beneath all the chest beating and showmanship, theyre decent people
08:27 PM gloops: i dont think trump is a bad man
08:35 PM roycroft: so based on the coaxing from some time ago i went to graiunger to see if things had changed
08:35 PM roycroft: and, indeed, they sell the general public now
08:35 PM roycroft: but more importantly, i was able to register a business account without providing the non-existant resale tax id number
08:36 PM roycroft: i'll see in a few days if they approve the account
08:36 PM roycroft: i'll still likely only use them in an emergency, if at all
08:37 PM roycroft: but i like options for emergencies
08:38 PM roycroft: however, their branch locator no longer shows a eugene store
08:38 PM roycroft: so it may not be even an emergency option
08:38 PM gregcnc: the store closest to me closed too
08:38 PM roycroft: they probably denied too many accounts in eugene to operate a store here profitably
08:39 PM roycroft: if i have to drive to pdx for parts i'm sure i can find other vendors besides grainger with better prices
09:20 PM roycroft: am i likely to even need a boring head when i start cnc milling?
09:21 PM Wolf_: only if the holes need to be truly round depending on the cnc machine
09:30 PM roycroft: and by "truly round" you mean to tenths, not thousandths, right?
09:31 PM roycroft: depending on the machine
09:31 PM roycroft: for the parts i need to make at the maker space, if i can hold 0.002" i'll be fine
09:32 PM Wolf_: then no boring bar
09:32 PM roycroft: which is the most i should expect from a 30-year-old bridgeport of unknown provenance
09:39 PM Contract_Pilot: last umm 30 years grainger been the same..
09:41 PM Contract_Pilot: Grainger Delivers i used it many times portland ot Mulinio for fittings for aircraft.
09:42 PM Contract_Pilot: No charge if over 100 order.. same day F N A
09:42 PM Contract_Pilot: But ya some times need that bung today.. not in 3 days and 20.00 delivery in 2 hours is priceless
09:43 PM Contract_Pilot: but order 100 worth end of day - good 2.
09:50 PM roycroft: if i have to drive to pdx to get something it doesn't matter if i need it today
09:50 PM roycroft: i'll be using it tomorrow
09:50 PM roycroft: especially if it's on a friday
09:50 PM roycroft: the morning rush hour ends at 11am on fridays
09:50 PM roycroft: and the afternoon rush starts at about 11am
09:54 PM Contract_Pilot: you must not go to PDX often... hahahah traffic like LA all Day till about 7pm ..
09:55 PM roycroft: i try not to
09:55 PM roycroft: but there's usually a little bit of a lull just before and just after lunch
10:15 PM robotustra: hi
10:16 PM robotustra: is it possible to run BOB through USB-lpt convetrer on T60?
10:17 PM MrHindsight: robotustra: not for real time signals
10:18 PM MrHindsight: robotustra: what are you going to control with the BOB?
10:18 PM robotustra: just to play with step motors
10:19 PM robotustra: may be cnc router
10:19 PM robotustra: do you mean that usb-lpt will have big delays?
10:24 PM MrHindsight: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?HardwareDesign#Why_isn_t_there_support_for_lt_interface_gt
10:29 PM robotustra: fair
10:30 PM robotustra: and what about using ethernet version of mesa?
10:31 PM robotustra: oh, 2.7 is suppose to support eth
10:32 PM Tom_L: it does
10:33 PM robotustra: Tom_L, did you try it?
10:33 PM Tom_L: i've used a 7i80 on it testing
10:35 PM Tom_L: i've got 2.7.14 on my test machine right now
10:35 PM robotustra: is it 5V gpio?
10:36 PM robotustra: hm
10:36 PM robotustra: they are 3.3v
10:36 PM Tom_L: jumper select iirc
10:38 PM robotustra: you can select 5 or 3.3?
10:39 PM Tom_L: i'd have to check but i think so yes
10:40 PM Tom_L: 5v tolerant i believe
10:41 PM Tom_L: jumpers W6 W 7 W8 determine that
10:42 PM Tom_L: UP 5v tolerant, DOWN 3.3v
10:42 PM Tom_L: P2 of the 7i80 pdf
10:42 PM Tom_L: PDF P6
10:43 PM robotustra: hm, I'm not sure my steppers will work
10:43 PM Tom_L: one jumper for each connector
10:45 PM Tom_L: goes on to say W4 controls the 5v tolerance IO option
10:55 PM robotustra: hm, if I drive by pull down it should in theory work
10:55 PM robotustra: if I drive servos by pull down
10:57 PM robotustra: touchy does not starts on T60
11:14 PM Contract_Pilot: Roycroft is a snow flake tread lightly..
11:16 PM roycroft: please stop
11:16 PM Contract_Pilot: melting You
11:17 PM roycroft: fuck off
11:17 PM Contract_Pilot: K
11:17 PM Contract_Pilot: Stroking now..
11:17 PM Contract_Pilot: grainger will sell to you..
11:18 PM Contract_Pilot: Buy a larger AC
11:18 PM Contract_Pilot: or insulate yor shed..
11:18 PM Contract_Pilot: Rockwool
11:19 PM Contract_Pilot: https://www.lowes.com/pd/ROCKWOOL-Rock-Wool-Batt-Insulation-with-Sound-Barrier-15-25-in-W-x-47-in-L/3394032?cm_mmc=SCE_PLA-_-LumberAndBuildingMaterials-_-Insulation-_-3394032:ROCKWOOL&CAWELAID=&kpid=3394032&CAGPSPN=pla&store_code=1632&k_clickID=1a42f1fc-a1d0-4572-b55e-aaf2ad6ba9da&gclid=CjwKCAjw4uXaBRAcEiwAuAUz8MFhHDs9lnIuelkrpovtJdHiSAwzWtAAGSJylIA6AoMROPHnAOPFfBoC9RwQAvD_BwE
11:19 PM Contract_Pilot: Shit works great..
11:19 PM Contract_Pilot: Walls and attic..
11:19 PM hazzy-lab: Contract_Pilot: c'mon man. What is the point?
11:20 PM Contract_Pilot: hazzy calling him out..
11:20 PM hazzy-lab: no need
11:20 PM Contract_Pilot: Yea there is..
11:21 PM jesseg: lol gents
11:21 PM Contract_Pilot: points above ands grainger wil sell,.
11:21 PM Contract_Pilot: regardless of business status.....
11:23 PM Contract_Pilot: and if good on the phone will match zoro and coupon price or - 10% if local pickup
11:24 PM jesseg: well I had to take the entire quill housing off my mill to get the quill pinion gear shaft out because the bloody setscrews for the bushings were put in from that side, before they assembled the major parts LOL. Yay for Taiwanese mills :P
11:25 PM jesseg: I'm assuming a real BP is better about that :P
11:25 PM roycroft: you'll drill out the housing so you can access those set screws in the future without removing again?
11:25 PM hazzy-lab: jesseg: Does the rack on the quill not run off the end? You should be able to just crank it out, but you have to remove the skirt first
11:27 PM jesseg: roycroft, I'll consider doing that. Taking the head off wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. I just cranked it upside down, blocked it on the table, unbolted it, and slid it apart after destroying a bushing and finishing off the pinion gear shaft (which was already damaged, which is why I was taking it apart.)
11:27 PM jesseg: roycroft, but those would be some bloody long taps I'd need because it's a long ways from other angles LOL
11:27 PM hazzy-lab: its a long enough ways from the back, lol
11:28 PM roycroft: oh, they're in the back
11:28 PM jesseg: hazzy-lab, The rack on the quill may run off the end, but it was the pinion gear shaft that was damaged. This mill was pretty beat up when I got it.
11:28 PM hazzy-lab: aha, i see!
11:30 PM jesseg: yeah the set screws are on the back.. because that's the only practical place to put them I guess..
11:32 PM Contract_Pilot: I will call a snow flake out asap..
11:36 PM jesseg: Anyway so my mill is all torn apart now. except I haven't taken the variator drive apart because the spring retainer hole doesn't line up. I may just stand back and let the big spring shoot out LOL.
11:36 PM jesseg: it's a sad state to be in :P
11:37 PM jesseg: I'm considering putting some other drive mechanism on it, this variator head makes an awful lot of noise when runnnig, especially in high gear at higher speeds
11:37 PM roycroft: don't let it put your eye out!
11:37 PM jesseg: roycroft, my eye nothing. It's far too big for my eye. It's about a 2.8" diameter spring with a 3/8" diameter wire. And it's under plenty of force. It might put my whole head out though :D
11:38 PM jesseg: it's the kind that breaks fingers and stuff
11:38 PM hazzy-lab: jesseg: I put a step pulley head on mine, and a VFD, it is so much nicer than the vari drive heads!
11:38 PM jesseg: hazzy-dev, yeah I'm sorely tempted to do that myself. Does yours have the notched belt then the dual stepped?
11:39 PM jesseg: err hazzy-lab
11:39 PM jesseg: :P you have two heads here
11:41 PM hazzy-lab: no, just a standard step pulley head, but I would think you could convert the vari head easily enough to use modern grooved belt and pulleys
11:41 PM hazzy-lab: I have four heads here, LOL
11:42 PM jesseg: hazzy-dev, so do you run your motor at 60hz max, or do you push it a bit beyond that? or is it a high speed motor?
11:43 PM hazzy-lab: jesseg: It is the original motor, I push it to 68Hz, above that is looses torque very fast
11:44 PM jesseg: gotcha
11:46 PM hazzy-lab: That gives me something like 4-5k, which is plenty fast enough
11:47 PM jesseg: yeah
11:47 PM jesseg: did that quiet it down a lot (getting rid of the vari) or does the spline still make a racket?
11:47 PM jesseg: I'm assuming you also got rid of back gear and all
11:48 PM hazzy-lab: It is very quiet, most of the noise comes from the V-belt, and flat belt would be better
11:49 PM hazzy-lab: I did not modify the head, so it still have the backgear
11:49 PM hazzy-lab: has*
11:49 PM jesseg: interesting..
11:51 PM jesseg: Is the back gear used to boost the speed, or is it active in low gear?
11:51 PM hazzy-lab: it is just for low gear
11:51 PM jesseg: oh gotcha that makes sense
11:52 PM hazzy-lab: Even with the VFD I use it when I need more torque
11:52 PM hazzy-lab: Like when tapping
11:52 PM jesseg: hey, if I kept the back gear in, used a VFD, and did like a 1:1 with the motor with a single belt, I wonder if that'd be suitable
11:52 PM jesseg: motor is probably like what 1800 only I suppose
11:53 PM hazzy-lab: 1:1 would be about perfect
11:53 PM hazzy-lab: I keep mine set to close to 1:1 most of the time
11:54 PM hazzy-lab: I do mostly steel and cast iron though, so if you do much aly you might want a 2:1
11:55 PM hazzy-lab: Just a plain jain PB: https://i.imgur.com/85tX6FR.png
11:56 PM jesseg: Peanut butter?
11:56 PM hazzy-lab: Lol, a bit dyslexic here!
11:57 PM jesseg: oh Bridge Port
11:57 PM jesseg: Why is it on blocks?
11:58 PM hazzy-lab: So I can roll a pallet jack under it
11:58 PM jesseg: oh gotcha, looks like maybe you're in the middle of refurbishing it
11:58 PM hazzy-lab: Yes, I was almost done with the rebuild at that point
11:58 PM jesseg: gotcha
11:59 PM jesseg: do you just set them on the floor once you put them into use?
11:59 PM jesseg: I was going to leave mine on blocks but my brother said "Hey Jesse you can already hardly reach the drawbar"