#linuxcnc Logs

Jul 17 2018

02:04 AM Deejay: moin
02:08 AM selroc: hi pink_vampire|2
02:34 AM diverdude: Hi there - did anybody in here try grbl? Does anybody know why grbl only has a single enable - and not enable for x and another for y?
02:45 AM rmu: diverdude: i did try it, but didn't really do anything with it. why would you need separate enable signals?
02:51 AM Loetmichel: hmpf... customer orders a PC with a Power symbol on the button (that one: (') ) and wants it in the colour thats defined in the DIN EN 60950.... but doesent say which colour that is... anyone any idea? i am not willing to pay 200 eur for that DIN and work thru a few 100 pages just to find the colour.
03:06 AM diverdude: rmu: i am having big problems controlling microstepping. The machine seems to move as the wind blows when looking at small scales <1mm. I was also considering if i could somehow run my drivers directly from raspberry pi w. linuxcnc instead
03:12 AM rmu: diverdude: if the machine moves "by itself" then you have some noise issues or missing ground connection
03:14 AM rmu: running step/direction drivers from linuxcnc on a raspberry pi doesn't make sense IMO because you won't achieve useable step rates
03:15 AM diverdude: rmu: i am pretty sure there are no noise issues...checked that with ocilloscope and used shielded wires. Further - if i move the drives by writing my own small arduino code where i fix one enable permantly it moves ok....but when using grbl code where all enables are tied into one - there seems to be a lot of slug
03:15 AM rmu: it could work with "intelligent" SPI stepper drivers with built-in motion generation, but that would involve writing a new driver
03:16 AM rmu: diverdude: power supply is strong enough to supply holding current for all motors simultanously?
03:20 AM diverdude: rmu: yes it should be strong enough. I am using these drivers: https://www.lightobject.com/Product.aspx?ProductId=453#reviewsPane these motors: https://www.lightobject.com/Product.aspx?ProductId=829#reviewsPane and this power supply: https://www.lightobject.com/Product.aspx?ProductId=579#reviewsPane
03:31 AM diverdude: rmu: did you see?
03:31 AM rmu: sorry, was AFK
03:31 AM rmu: yes
03:32 AM diverdude: rmu: PSU should be strong enough right?
03:33 AM rmu: should be enough, it doesn't say what motors those are, but they look like 2A or so
03:33 AM rmu: what current did you configure?
03:36 AM rmu: I would check: * power wiring to drivers * ground connection * voltage levels on step/enable/dir signals when on and off. perhaps some pin needs pull up/down enabled.
03:36 AM diverdude: on the drives i set 0.675A on each motor
03:37 AM diverdude: rmu: ^
03:38 AM diverdude: rmu: the motors are Nema 23 high torque 5.2A 3-phase stepping motor
03:38 AM diverdude: rmu: so it seems i might not be supplying them enough current at all right?
03:39 AM rmu: are you sure?
03:40 AM rmu: 3-phase steppers do exist, but they are surely exotic
03:40 AM diverdude: rmu: it says so here: https://www.lightobject.com/Product.aspx?ProductId=829#reviewsPane
03:41 AM diverdude: rmu: if you click on description tab halfway down on the site
03:42 AM rmu: i'm curious, how did you wire those motors to the drivers?
03:43 AM rmu: the driver says 2phase
03:43 AM rmu: the stepper motors seem to be 3phase indeed
03:44 AM rmu: https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEMA-23-3-PH-Stepper-Motor-573S15-L-1-5NM-5-2A-For-CNC-Laser-Machine-New-In-Box-/121559938295
03:44 AM rmu: aehm. better http://www.leadshine.com/UploadFile/Down/573Sxx.pdf
03:46 AM rmu: diverdude: seems you got either the link to the driver wrong or the wrong driver
03:47 AM diverdude: rmu: there are 3 wires from each motor. i put those into the trives under U, V and W
03:47 AM diverdude: trives = drives
03:48 AM rmu: ok, if it says U V W on the driver then it should be OK. just up the current, but a 5A power supply probably is not enough to supply a 5.8A and a 3.5A motor
03:52 AM gloops: sounds like ground issue to me
03:52 AM diverdude: rmu: regarding ground i did the following
03:54 AM diverdude: rmu: from arduino i connected GRND pin to driver pins ENA-, DIR- and PUL-
03:55 AM diverdude: i did that on both drivers
04:00 AM rmu: diverdude: you could try with proper (for the resp. motor) current settings. if all else fails, put a photo of your wiring somewhere.
04:04 AM diverdude: rmu: here is an image of the wiring: https://ibb.co/nbkYGy
04:15 AM diverdude: rmu: hmm ok...setting up correct current seems to have helped quite a lot actually
04:27 AM enleth: oh, I just realized I have one more reason to start playing with STMBL - I pulled this huge 300VDC motor from a printing press, that was powered by an ancient 70s tech driver board
04:28 AM enleth: sounds like STMBL should do fine controlling that
04:30 AM enleth: that motor powered pretty much the whole press, AFAIR it's 3-4kW and has an integrated brake
04:31 AM enleth: I don't even know where to begin looking for an off-the-shelf drive for a motor like this
04:32 AM enleth: but a STMBL might be able to handle it at a reduced power
04:36 AM rmu: enleth: look at the linuxcnc wiki, there should be a page with links to commercial hardware
04:41 AM miss0r: syyl: You around?
04:44 AM miss0r: diverdude: That wiring looks pretty decent. In the future you 'could' consider using double ferrules for those jumper wires. Just my 5cent, should you be interrested
05:04 AM enleth: rmu: doesn't look like it lists any high power, high voltage DC motor drives
05:34 AM diverdude: miss0r: ok - what are those?
05:40 AM Tom_L: morning
05:40 AM jthornton: morning
05:41 AM Tom_L: how are the chickens doin?
05:42 AM jthornton: they are 11 months old yesterday and I've been putting ice in the water bucket for the heat they seem to be doing ok
05:43 AM Tom_L: 77�F
05:43 AM jthornton: 74°F high of 92°F today
05:45 AM rmu: diverdude: http://www.swaonline.co.uk/cable-terminations/bootlace-ferrules/insulated-bootlace-ferrules-twin-entry
05:45 AM rmu: enleth: 300VDC? brushed?
05:46 AM jthornton: I usually just get the next bigger ferrule for jumpers
05:46 AM rmu: enleth: https://granitedevices.com/digital-servo-drive-argon/
05:47 AM rmu: ok only 1k5W
05:50 AM rmu: enleth: perhaps a 7i29 from mesa would work
05:50 AM rmu: no, 165V
05:54 AM jthornton: I wonder how you can get some of these https://github.com/rene-dev/stmbl
06:12 AM enleth: jthornton: make them. problem is, the powerpack it uses went out of production a couple months ago
06:12 AM jthornton: hmm I wonder if he is going to redesign it now
06:15 AM jthornton: https://github.com/rene-dev/stmbl/issues/91
06:16 AM enleth: jthornton: it's work in progress right now
06:22 AM enleth: rmu: yep, it's a weird motor. I guess in the 70s it was easier to make a single channel DC drive than three synchronized channels needed for a VFD
06:23 AM enleth: rmu: that's not the only 70s/early 80s piece of heavy equipment I found a high power DC motor in a role that would be filled by an AC induction motor in a more modern design
06:23 AM enleth: *where I found
06:26 AM Loetmichel: enleth: by now its back to (BL-)DC motors in three phase AC domains
06:26 AM Loetmichel: in a lot of places
06:27 AM enleth: Loetmichel: yep
06:27 AM Loetmichel: anyone still remember "leonard-sets"?
06:27 AM enleth: ah, Ward-Leonard
06:28 AM diverdude: rmu: its weird.... After changing current it works much better, the x engine has ok temperature but the y engine gets so hot
06:28 AM Loetmichel: i have heard that 1 phase/3phase leonard converters are still pretty much used in the u.s.
06:28 AM enleth: Loetmichel: there's a lot of elevators running those still in operation in Poland
06:28 AM enleth: 60s/70s stuff
06:29 AM Loetmichel: s/leonard/rotary
06:29 AM Loetmichel: not really leonard if they have no DC motor :)
06:29 AM Loetmichel: enleth: leonard was the standard to have VFDs before semiconductors were cheap
06:30 AM enleth: Loetmichel: actually, those elevators here *are* Ward-Leonard
06:30 AM enleth: not all of them, some are just two-speed induction motors
06:30 AM Loetmichel: enleth: i meant the us rotary converters from 1 phase to three phase
06:31 AM enleth: ah, OK
06:31 AM Loetmichel: these are not really leonard converters because they have no DC intermediate
06:31 AM Loetmichel: also they usually cant change frequency
06:31 AM enleth: because they're not supposed to be variable speed
06:31 AM rmu: diverdude: current too high?
06:31 AM Loetmichel: indeed
06:31 AM rmu: stepper motors do get hot
06:31 AM gonzo_: dyna-motors, or rotary converters were popular for getting high voltages for radio comms kit in the valve days. They were a dc motor and dynamo/alternator, on the same armature
06:31 AM rmu: 80°C
06:32 AM Loetmichel: gonzo_: i had a few leopard1 target illumination spotlights
06:32 AM diverdude: rmu: its supposed to get 5.8A and thats what i give it
06:32 AM Loetmichel: those had rotary converters for the 800W arc lamp. from 28V dc
06:33 AM gonzo_: Loetmichel, interesting
06:33 AM Loetmichel: supposedly indescructible
06:33 AM Loetmichel: because semiconductors in tanks....
06:33 AM Loetmichel: EMP and so on
06:34 AM Loetmichel: nice "whining" sound when switching them on
06:34 AM gonzo_: for lower power stuff, a vibrating reed inverter was sometinmes used. to chop the DC to drive a transformer step up
06:34 AM rmu: diverdude: one motor is 5.8A, the other is 3.5A according to description on website
06:34 AM Loetmichel: *klick* *whiiiiIIIIINNNNNE* *BAMPF* *BRRRRRRIIIIIGT*
06:34 AM Loetmichel: :-)
06:35 AM gonzo_: who need to post wav files!
06:35 AM gonzo_: needs
06:35 AM Loetmichel: and an 800W arc light with 1.3° opening angle is ONE HELL of a bright beam ;)
06:36 AM Loetmichel: and 1' reflector diameter
06:38 AM diverdude: rmu: yeah and thats how i set it
06:38 AM diverdude: its the 5.8 motor which gets very warm
06:47 AM gonzo_: sounds like it would have recoil, when sparked up
06:54 AM Loetmichel: gonzo_: no recoil, but close ;)
06:54 AM Loetmichel: we used it as "skyfingers" on a motorized gimbal at Rock and roll concerts
06:54 AM Loetmichel: one left one right of the entrance ,)
06:55 AM enleth: I got my hands on a vintage 2kW photographic arc lamp once
06:55 AM Loetmichel: painting the clouds white (or coloured with lee filters) at night
06:55 AM enleth: it wasn't supposed to be on longer than 30 seconds at time
06:56 AM Loetmichel: enleth: arc electrodes melting?
06:56 AM enleth: probably
06:57 AM Loetmichel: yeah, on the leopard lamps you could see the tungsten electrodes afterglow for 30 sec or so after shutting it off ;)
06:57 AM enleth: it was a summer-zenith-sun-white, absolutely blinding
06:57 AM Loetmichel: indeed
06:58 AM enleth: radiated a lot of heat too
06:58 AM Loetmichel: it also deletes an Eprom in 10 seconds... been there tested that ;)
06:59 AM gonzo_: instant sun tan for anyone leaving the access door open inavisably
07:00 AM rmu: film projectors used to use carbon arc lamps
07:02 AM gloops: sodium lights are ok, like they use for growlights
07:02 AM gloops: ive got one with 600w ballast, it lights a BIG area with no cover on
07:38 AM * jthornton gives up on pyqt5 way to many seg faults lol it's not ready for prime time
07:44 AM jthornton: hmm a bluejay is in the chicken run
08:42 AM enleth: in case anyone's interested - the proper 1:1 V-belt and pulley set for a Bridgeport Series 1 rigid ram head is: two 160mm OD A-size pulleys and an A1005 belt
08:57 AM hazzy-lab: jthornton: Seg faults in PyQt5, really? I have never had a seg fault in PyQt (unless I wrote it :D)
08:57 AM hazzy-lab: what are you trying to do?
09:02 AM jthornton: lol I have one menu item that prints to the terminal
09:04 AM hazzy-lab: Ok, that should be trivial!
09:04 AM hazzy-lab: I would be more than happy to look at your code if you'd like
09:04 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/files/pyqt5/
09:04 AM jthornton: that's what I thought lol
09:04 AM hazzy-lab: perfect!
09:05 AM hazzy-lab: Internal Server Error for the .py files
09:06 AM jthornton: let me zip it up
09:07 AM hazzy-lab: Ok, thanks!
09:08 AM pcw_home: jthornton: blue jays will eat chicken eggs...
09:09 AM hazzy-lab: got the zip
09:11 AM jthornton: pcw_home: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/nestbox/nest-box-cam-03.jpg
09:12 AM jthornton: be kinda hard for a bluejay to find the eggs in the roll out nest box :)
09:12 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/nestbox/nbmk3-09.jpg
09:12 AM jthornton: hazzy-lab: see you out in the shop
09:12 AM hazzy-lab: jthornton: Works fine here on debian stretch with Qt 5.7.1, are you in Mint?
09:13 AM hazzy-lab: OK!
09:15 AM pcw_home: jthornton: that does looks blue jay proof :-)
09:18 AM JT-Shop: hazzy-lab: yes I was using linux mint
09:19 AM hazzy-lab: What error did you get?
09:19 AM hazzy-lab: This: ImportError: /home/kurt/.local/lib/python3.5/site-packages/PyQt5/QtCore.so: undefined symbol: PySlice_AdjustIndices
09:19 AM JT-Shop: segmentation fault when I exited
09:20 AM gloops: hmm, just bought a used Einhell hammer drill for £20 off somebody - never heard of them expected it to be crap - actually seems pretty good!
09:21 AM * JT-Shop better finish the hot wires around the chicken yard before it gets too hot outside
09:21 AM hazzy-lab: seg at exit usually means a parent widget was deleted before the child, I know older version of (Qt5.5?) had that problem sometimes
09:21 AM hazzy-lab: But it is harmless
09:22 AM hazzy-lab: I do not get seg faults here on 5.7.1
09:35 AM jthornton: Qt version: 5.7.0
09:39 AM hazzy-lab: Are you running with Py2 or Py3? Shabang is py3, I am running it on py2. If you installed PyQt5 with pip that can cause problems if the system version files don't match the pip version (which is likely)
09:44 AM jthornton: hazzy-lab, do you use qtcreator?
09:45 AM hazzy-lab: No, I can't stand it :D
09:45 AM hazzy-lab: I just use QtDesinger for the UI files
09:46 AM jthornton: ok that is what I've been doing using qtdesigner then pyuic
09:47 AM hazzy-lab: You can load the UI directly like in Gtk if you want
09:47 AM hazzy-lab: sek
09:48 AM hazzy-lab: Like this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6836c9vd372d8j4/app2_load-UI.tar.gz?dl=0
09:49 AM jthornton: ah thanks that saves a step
09:49 AM hazzy-lab: yes!
09:50 AM hazzy-lab: It is no slower to start up either, I ran a bunch of test with complicated UIs and it only took ~.2s lonnger, so its a no brainer
09:54 AM jthornton: hmm caja in debian does not seem to have an open in terminal command
09:56 AM hazzy-lab: that sucks
09:56 AM Loetmichel: JT-Shop: hot wires? as in electroshock?
09:56 AM jthornton: exactly it's very shocking for sure
09:57 AM Loetmichel: dosent a horse electric fence kill chickens?
09:57 AM Loetmichel: or are ther special fence generators for chickens?
09:58 AM jthornton: no it doesn't kill them but the do squabble and yell a lot the time one got hit... the hot wires are on the outside of the chain link fence
09:59 AM Loetmichel: i can imagine... would have thought that the joules needed to shock a horse into submission would stop a chickens heart for sure.
09:59 AM Loetmichel: on the other hand: a human can touch an electric fence without much problem... as long as he doesent touch it via some urine ;)
10:00 AM jthornton: makes them fly across the yard, I've closed up any holes they can stick their head through
10:01 AM jthornton: the hot wires are to keep predators out not keep the chickens in
10:02 AM Loetmichel: i see
10:02 AM Loetmichel: then: MOAR POWA... (after you fixed all the loopholes for the chickens)
10:02 AM Loetmichel: i heard roasted fox should be pretty good food ;)
10:03 AM Loetmichel: i wanna see that 30 second 10kV arc :-)
10:03 AM jthornton: the arc only lasts for a few milliseconds
10:03 AM rmu: chicken a la störlichtbogen?
10:04 AM jthornton: hazzy-lab, thanks for the info, I got it working on this debian drive so I'll work on it more in the morning
10:05 AM hazzy-lab: wellingtons provide enough insulation that you won't get shocked when touching a live fence, so I got careless, until one day a 1.5 year old crawled up to me and touched my leg, it shocked the bejesus out of the poor little guy
10:05 AM hazzy-lab: He was scared of me after that, wonder why ..
10:15 AM Loetmichel: hihi
10:16 AM * Loetmichel got his first 230V experience at age 3. Dad was fixing an outlet and courious $me took an all metal screwdriver and touched the live wire... Dad said i rolled thru the whole living room :-)
10:20 AM gloops: that could explain a lot Loetmichel..lol
10:24 AM Loetmichel: gloops: how so?
10:27 AM hazzy-lab: gloops: xD
10:27 AM JT-Shop: hazzy-lab: mine you don't need the ground to get shocked... you just touch the fence and the hot wire the fence is grounded to the hot box
10:28 AM hazzy-lab: But the current has to pass thru your body
10:29 AM hazzy-lab: aha, I guess if it were AC that would work
10:30 AM hazzy-lab: so it shocks by rapidly charging and discharging the subject
10:31 AM gloops: yes, a farmer once tricked me with that, i dont know what actually happened, but he wanted to test the fence, he held the wire and said we could test it if i touched his hand - of course i got the shock
10:31 AM jthornton: it sends a pulse every few seconds
10:31 AM jthornton: I use an insulated wire to test mine, nice big 1/2" blue spark
10:33 AM hazzy-lab: That is very clever! I was wondering how an electric fence would work for birds, since they would not be grounded
10:37 AM * hazzy-lab used to be into high voltage, i.e. ~100kV range: https://i.imgur.com/z26Mmd8.png
11:16 AM miss0r: diverdude: You still around?
11:29 AM jthornton: well sudo apt-get install caja-open-terminal gives you the pormpt
11:34 AM Loetmichel: *muhaha* radio just talked about the nervousness of trump in his putin meeting... radio moderator: "no wonder. who isnt nervous when his boss calls him in a 1 on 1 meeting?"
11:35 AM hazzy-lab: heh
11:50 AM roycroft: i hear trump did such a good job yesterday putin is thinking of hiring him on for another four years
11:51 AM Loetmichel: roycroft: THATS mean
11:53 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
12:01 PM roycroft: can linuxcnc drive a delta axis machine?
12:02 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: yes
12:02 PM roycroft: cool
12:02 PM Loetmichel: you'll have to do the kinematics calculations yourself first though
12:02 PM hazzy-lab: there is a deltakins module
12:03 PM Loetmichel: ... to get it working correctly
12:03 PM cradek_: there are both rotary delta and linear delta modules
12:03 PM roycroft: i'm not sure that's something i might want to do
12:03 PM roycroft: but i'm considering it
12:04 PM roycroft: it's good to know it's an option
12:04 PM roycroft: a rotary axis machine might be fun too
12:05 PM Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_UmhUjZhNo
12:06 PM Loetmichel: linear axis delta machine
12:06 PM hazzy-lab: it is possible to make linuxcnc.command.wait_complete() never time out?
12:06 PM Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-Kpv-ZOcKY <- rotational axis delta. not linuxCNC though
12:07 PM hazzy-lab: I tried passing -1 but it does not do anything
12:08 PM hazzy-lab: Heck, I'll just pass a very large value for the time out :P
12:09 PM hazzy-lab: 10000s should do
12:15 PM Rab: That hexapod sure is sexy, wish there was more detail. They posted a video update in 2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51jICcUkhhM
12:16 PM Rab: $6-8K in parts, "not ready for aluminium" isn't super encouraging though.
12:19 PM IchGucksLive: there is a deltamashine example in the 2.8
12:21 PM IchGucksLive: im off till tomorrow Folks
12:21 PM IchGucksLive: Gn8
12:22 PM Rab: Hexapod person has a blog: http://parallelrobots.blogspot.com/
12:26 PM Rab: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnixuCu49o4
02:11 PM Beachbumpete1: Rab that thing really moves
02:18 PM XXCoder: roycroft: linuxcnc can drive up tp 26 axis iirc
02:19 PM jdh: just a letter restriction?
02:19 PM jdh: I want a ?-axis
02:19 PM XXCoder: not sure on that
02:20 PM Tom_L: It can simultaneously move up to 9 axes and supports a variety of interfaces.
02:20 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/about-linuxcnc.html
02:22 PM XXCoder: move 9 axis at same time dang
02:26 PM diverdude: miss0r: yes now im here
02:34 PM miss0r: diverdude: For the picture you posted
02:35 PM miss0r: You made some nice wiring; including some jumper wires.
02:36 PM miss0r: You did the right thing and added wire ferrules(the small tubes you push over the end of the wires). You can get those in a double configuration as well - that makes the an easy, and nice looking, task of doing terminals with more than one wire in'em
02:37 PM diverdude: ahhh ok cool
02:37 PM diverdude: thx
02:37 PM miss0r: No problem ;)
02:37 PM Rab: Whoa @ double wire ferrules, hadn't come across those before.
02:38 PM miss0r: rab: realy ? :S
02:39 PM miss0r: rab: they look like this: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1Cd9HLXXXXXbBaXXXq6xXFXXXk/TE1010-1000pcs-Wire-Ferrules-End-Sleeve-Double-Cord-End-Terminal-Copper-Insulated-Crimp-Splice-Terminal-connector.jpg_640x640.jpg
02:39 PM Rab: Yep. I've used the single uninsulated ferrules. I guess there's no difference without the insulation.
02:40 PM miss0r: yeah, then its all the same
02:40 PM jdh: I got some new PLC remote io blocks that don't work well with ferrules, just bare wires. spring xla
02:41 PM jdh: spring clamps so they aren't really required but I like them.
02:41 PM miss0r: jdh: yeah, with those its much better to just use the 'raw' wire
02:41 PM miss0r: Especially on PLC modules. Most of the DIN-rail spring terminals work okay with ferrules
02:43 PM miss0r: Basically all the spring terminals on rockwell automation stuff is awfull for ferrules
02:44 PM JT-Shop: yea spring terminals only work on bare wire
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=dkTjEi7O4Ic is it really deciding anything or just making choices from a given range + some noise
02:52 PM CaptHindsight: if I use http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/gui_image-to-gcode.html and add some randomness is this todays AI?
03:05 PM gregcnc: did you see? additive titanium print https://vimeo.com/279491073
03:14 PM CaptHindsight: that was part of a story on Vice a few weeks ago
03:15 PM CaptHindsight: real applications for additive manufacturing vs the hijacked 3D printing term by hucksters
03:17 PM Beachbumpete1: that is impressive in titanium has this already been to space or still in testing?
03:19 PM CaptHindsight: https://news.lockheedmartin.com/2018-07-11-Giant-Satellite-Fuel-Tank-Sets-New-Record-for-3-D-Printed-Space-Parts#assets_all
03:19 PM CaptHindsight: Technicians used Electron Beam Additive Manufacturing® to produce these domes in the largest 3-D printer at our facility in Denver. Lockheed Martin now offers the tank as a standard product option for LM 2100 satellite buses.
03:22 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.sciaky.com/ the machine are actually made by this local co
03:30 PM gregcnc: seems they were making tanks like that in 2015
03:35 PM gloops: Uks new proposed jet fighter revealed yesterday
03:35 PM gloops: superior to f22, maybe online for 2030, pilot or remote
03:37 PM gloops: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/16/uk-tempest-fighter-jet-typhoon-farnborough-airshow
03:38 PM gloops: This will include “swarming” technology that uses artificial intelligence and machine learning to hit its targets, as well as directed energy weapons (DEW), which used concentrated bursts of laser, microwave or particle beam energy to inflict damage.
03:38 PM gloops: woohoo we need to see this in action
03:39 PM JT-Shop: I'll be dead by the time it flies :(
03:39 PM gloops: JT-Shop nah youve got years left in you
03:42 PM CaptHindsight: nah we'll just print you some replacement parts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VTDUTCUzsU
03:46 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Releases/News-Release-View/Article/1035759/dod-announces-award-of-new-advanced-tissue-biofabrication-manufacturing-innovat/
03:50 PM gloops: still JT-Shop has a point, exciting times ahead and we wont see any of it
03:52 PM gloops: i saw the rise of the cell phone, the internet, diesel turbo engines, macdonalds etc, the next generation will see other things
03:53 PM JT-Shop: I'd bet it don't fly until 2040
03:54 PM JT-Shop: well I hope to be alive in 2040 if so I'll only be 82
03:55 PM gloops: i said that on the facebook page - how do we know that technology will still even be relevant by the time it flies
03:57 PM Deejay: gn8
04:03 PM Wolf__: damn timed auctions, people need to stop bidding on the stuff I want lol
04:06 PM gloops: kill it with one massive bid
04:07 PM Wolf__: oddly they managed to push right up to my max bid and then quit lol
04:11 PM gloops: im seeing quite a few bargains on fb Marketplace, got a nice drill today just because it was there, no bidding or anything, you just need to spot the bargains quick
04:12 PM Wolf__: this is that tool and die shop close out, so bidding can go weird
04:12 PM gloops: ahh that one
04:12 PM gloops: theyll all know about that
04:13 PM Wolf__: so far someone bumped my max off the deckel single lip grinder and ran my bid up to max on mag sine plate
04:14 PM Wolf__: actually mag sine x3
04:14 PM gloops: was it your real max though ? haha
04:14 PM gloops: or was it just the price you wanted to pay
04:15 PM Wolf__: put in $50 each on the sine plates, I might go up to $100 ea
04:16 PM Wolf__: debating if I want to fight over that deckel grinder
04:16 PM gloops: i dunno, ive regretted not bidding again plenty of times, but also regretted bidding again probably more
04:16 PM Wolf__: lol yeah, thats the fun part with these things
04:17 PM Wolf__: last shop auction I ended up spending almost $600 but was partly kicking myself for a couple things I didn’t get
04:18 PM gloops: yeah thats the thing, the prices they go up to get disappointing but then you realise later it was easily worth that - when you need it and you havent got it
04:19 PM andypugh: I just wrote my firs “Instructable” about the little-known PCB prototyping technique of “Verowire”
04:20 PM Wolf__: I know the deckel and magnetic sine plates are $$$
04:20 PM andypugh: (It’s like wire-wrap on perfboard)
04:22 PM CaptHindsight: they still sell that?!
04:22 PM andypugh: They do, and it is still pretty useful.
04:23 PM andypugh: Fiddly and annoying too, but that board would have been really difficult with stripboard.
04:23 PM Wolf__: just flying traces imo =)
04:24 PM hazzy-lab: andypugh: link?
04:24 PM andypugh: https://www.instructables.com/id/PCB-Prototyping-With-Verowire/
04:25 PM hazzy-lab: Thank you!!
04:26 PM hazzy-lab: the boards aren't that tinned ceramic anymore!
04:28 PM hazzy-lab: maybe the ceramic boards were only for high voltage applications ..
04:28 PM andypugh: That’s just FR4 I think
04:34 PM hazzy-lab: very enjoyable read andypugh
04:34 PM tjb1_ is now known as tjb1
04:34 PM Wolf__: pretty neat idea there
04:35 PM andypugh: I use it quite a bit, and have noticed that nobody else seem to have heard of it.
04:38 PM Wolf__: only wire wrapping wire I have is insulated kynar, I dont think the insulation melts
04:38 PM hazzy-lab: Re voltage: at over about 1000v with the old ceramic boards and combs the solder tended to migrate/diffuse thru the ceramic, which over time resulted in shorts, which were a pain to find, since they were internal. Sometimes you would get lucky and could see slight tell-tail staining
04:40 PM Wolf__: andypugh: suggestion, hakko micro soft wire cutters, work great for small stuff and cheap
04:40 PM Rab: andypugh, I think the infamous elm-chan may have beaten you to it: http://elm-chan.org/works/gmp/pcb1.jpeg http://elm-chan.org/works/gmp/pcb2.jpeg http://elm-chan.org/he_e.html
04:41 PM Rab: He uses a similar wire, I think it maybe has polyester insulation. I was able to grab a roll on eBay.
04:42 PM rmu: Rab: I just had the same thought ;)
04:42 PM rmu: elm-chan technique is insane
04:43 PM hazzy-lab: andypugh: Is this for the clock?
04:43 PM Rab: Relevant to channel (from *2001-2005*): http://elm-chan.org/works/smc/report_e.html
04:44 PM rmu: http://elm-chan.org/works/cube/ph3l.jpeg
04:44 PM andypugh: I think that the technique has been around for several decades. But it wasn’t mentioned on Instructables.
04:48 PM Rab: hazzy-lab, that was a common and terrible failure mode for Tektronix 500-series tube oscilloscopes, which used ceramic terminal strips with silver solder. HV potential everywhere, causing silver to migrate between terminals. That happened to my 531A and I caught a pic of it arcing: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/scope/fire.jpg
04:49 PM hazzy-lab: ouch!
04:49 PM * hazzy-lab has 5 Tek scopes
04:50 PM Rab: I painstakingly replaced the strip and adjacent components, but the scope was still dead...guess something elsewhere got cooked when it arced.
04:50 PM hazzy-lab: That is a shame
04:50 PM hazzy-lab: I have a 531A parts scope if you are interested
04:51 PM hazzy-lab: it is in pretty good shape, but not worth restoring
04:51 PM Rab: I've heard bad things happen if you repair them with non-silver solders, like it causes the terminals to delaminate somehow.
04:52 PM hazzy-lab: Hmm, maybe it melts at a higher temperature?
04:52 PM Rab: Many (maybe all?) 500-series scopes came from the factory with a little coil of approved silver solder as an accessory or hidden inside the chassis, because Tek was quite the class act in that era.
04:53 PM Rab: (As you'd expect for $15,000 1965 dollars)
04:53 PM hazzy-lab: I did not know that! That is a neat anecdote
04:54 PM Rab: hazzy-lab, thanks for the offer, but I just put my 531A on craigslist for $10. No bites so far. Somebody did take my semi-working 547.
04:54 PM andypugh: I have a little Sony / Tek scope and it’s lovely. It has on-screen character generators and menus and other stuff that must have been super-expensive back then.
04:54 PM Rab: Gotta free up space, and that's a lot of it.
04:55 PM andypugh: (Mine is the 336)
04:56 PM hazzy-lab: https://kurtjacobson.weebly.com/tektronix-547-oscilloscope.html
04:57 PM Rab: andypugh, very odd, I didn't know Tek ever had a partnership with Sony. Looks nice and compact for a digital storage CRO.
04:57 PM andypugh: Rab: About as big as an A4 sheet of paper.
04:57 PM andypugh: So motorcycle-portable (which matters to me)
04:58 PM hazzy-lab: my 547 belonged to Roy Goslin of Y12 fame at the oak ridge uranium preprocessing plant
04:58 PM Rab: andypugh, that's actually pretty impressive.
05:00 PM Rab: hazzy-lab, looks in really nice shape.
05:00 PM hazzy-lab: The 336 is a dual trace, nice!
05:00 PM hazzy-lab: thanks Rab
05:06 PM Rab: More than anyone could want to know about the ceramic strips: https://vintagetek.org/ceramic-strips/
05:16 PM hazzy-lab: That's a good article Rab, interesting history of the development
05:17 PM hazzy-lab: We had some fun with Lissajous patterns a while back: https://youtu.be/t7RFgCWFvAE
05:18 PM hazzy-lab: just used a sound card for the signal generator
06:33 PM Tom_L: andypugh how long did it take to make that board?
06:33 PM andypugh: A couple of evenings.
06:33 PM Tom_L: that's not bad
06:33 PM Tom_L: lots of flipping back and forth to find pins i suspect
06:34 PM Tom_L: that used to be _the_ way to make a prototype
06:34 PM andypugh: (It was a bare bit of board at 8pm last night and was a completed board at about 9 today. So probably 6 hoirs.
06:34 PM Tom_L: not bad at all
06:36 PM andypugh: Strip=board would have taken a lot longer, and a lot more thought. But with the enamelled wire you just run from point to point.
06:37 PM Tom_L: even drawing a pcb in cad would have taken the time
06:53 PM jdh: probably got this link from here originally, but if not: https://www.instagram.com/robinrenzetti/
08:24 PM cradek_ is now known as cradek
08:24 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:26 PM R2E4: eb=vening, morning, afternoon whenever....
08:27 PM hazzy-lab: hello R2E4
08:27 PM R2E4: JT or Peter around?
08:27 PM R2E4: 5i25 two solid red leds, dont blink on boot.
08:28 PM R2E4: lcnc wont start cause it cant find 5i25...
08:29 PM R2E4: hm2_pci.ko no device found
08:30 PM R2E4: insmod for hjm2_pci failed
08:51 PM R2E4: I think the single pci slot is bad or something. Put the card in another computer and the two red leds flashes like it is suppsoe to.
08:59 PM R2E4: anything in bios I can do?
10:02 PM hazzy-lab: Is it possible to return the calling subroutine from the called sub?
10:10 PM flyback: http://remix.kwed.org/download.php/636/Paco%20-%20Ninja.mp3
10:23 PM pcw_home: R2E4: sounds like bad power supply (low 3.3V)
10:24 PM pcw_home: 3.3V needs to be more than ~3.1V to start
10:30 PM R2E4: ok thanks, I'll check.