#linuxcnc Logs
Jul 11 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:00 AM `Wolf: any crazy ideas? M5 screw is the oil port https://i.imgur.com/58ro54M.jpg
12:03 AM `Wolf: and I can’t flip it over because of the table casting
12:03 AM MrHindsight: flexible oil line
12:03 AM `Wolf: nut needs to have the port pointing in to the slot to work
12:03 AM `Wolf: push fitting isn’t going to fit in there
12:04 AM `Wolf: port sits inside that slot
12:06 AM MrHindsight: well now is a fine time to think of this! :)
12:10 AM `Wolf: lol
12:10 AM `Wolf: better now then after I have the whole thing built then go, hey I should have put a oil system on this
12:10 AM MrHindsight: have it drip on the screw, add a wiper if it flings off
12:10 AM MrHindsight: it's oil not grease
12:10 AM `Wolf: I was thinking make a banjo fitting
12:10 AM `Wolf: I can open up the slot some
12:10 AM `Wolf: I could have some real fun and try to find some 4mm copper tube lol
12:12 AM MrHindsight: https://www.mettleair.com/store/push-to-connect-male-swivel-banjo-4-mm-od-1-8-npt-male.html
12:14 AM `Wolf: Link: http://a.co/94feQJB even smaller
12:15 AM `Wolf: oh wait, thats 6mm OD tube fitting
12:15 AM MrHindsight: do they have drawings somewhere?
12:16 AM `Wolf: I was thinking more like a 4.5mm thick washer w/ 4mm OD tube brazed in, then just drill a screw and add some teflon washers
12:18 AM `Wolf: or just use orings…
12:21 AM MrHindsight: can you drill a passage in a different location with more clearance?
12:21 AM `Wolf: I think that nut is hardened
12:21 AM MrHindsight: figures
12:28 AM `Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/Mdtl5L6.jpg plus that location with more clearance
12:28 AM `Wolf: that would be on someother machine lol
12:28 AM `Wolf: this is why no one builds X2 mills with 10mm ballscrews
12:29 AM IchGucksLive: morning from sunny germany
12:31 AM IchGucksLive: off to dentist this morning got a bad brekfast cracked somthing
12:33 AM MrHindsight: ouch
12:45 AM `Wolf: well, now that it’s less cramped https://i.imgur.com/Bfyg7gw.jpg
01:02 AM `Wolf: MrHindsight: those fitting you linked, right not a print for them anywhere
01:05 AM hazzy-lab: gn8 Capt, Wolf
01:06 AM `Wolf: later
01:11 AM `Wolf: nice found something that will fit in that opening, SMC fitting… $7, worth it for not having to attempt to make something for that hole
01:30 AM MrHindsight: definitely
01:31 AM `Wolf: even has a print lol
01:32 AM `Wolf: ships within 6-10 days,,, wtf lol
01:36 AM MrHindsight: https://postimg.cc/image/sxye6bf4b/ piston leaks
01:36 AM `Wolf: not hard to repack, but a total pain in the ass to get out
01:36 AM MrHindsight: do you think that the collar screws off for access to the o-rings?
01:37 AM `Wolf: should
01:37 AM `Wolf: and will have a stack of glands under it
01:37 AM MrHindsight: take top crap off, unscrew top...
01:38 AM `Wolf: actually, might be just oring and wiper, forgot those aren’t power down
01:38 AM MrHindsight: it leaves a puddle few oZ when it's used a bunch after parking
01:38 AM MrHindsight: yeah just gravity down
01:38 AM MrHindsight: I have plenty of fluid
01:38 AM `Wolf: I need to re pack the ones on my truck, 4000psi in/out
01:39 AM MrHindsight: ah yeah
01:39 AM `Wolf: I had one totally blow out, that was a mess
01:39 AM MrHindsight: looks like I can lift the forks 12" and then support it...
01:39 AM MrHindsight: the remove all the attachments to the top
01:39 AM `Wolf: 5 tons of road salt on the truck when it popped
01:41 AM MrHindsight: I can probably make a tool to unscrew it if requires persuasion
01:41 AM `Wolf: that was almost as bad as when the dump gate lock popped open, dumped full 5 tons of salt in the middle of the road lol
01:41 AM MrHindsight: oh man
01:41 AM `Wolf: should have pin spanner holes or we just use a big pipe wrench on them
01:42 AM MrHindsight: this is 10" in dia
01:42 AM `Wolf: really big pipe wrench =)
01:42 AM `Wolf: I think we have a 48”
01:43 AM MrHindsight: 7" OD
01:43 AM MrHindsight: just measured
01:43 AM MrHindsight: it has spanner notches
01:43 AM MrHindsight: middle of lower pic
01:44 AM MrHindsight: 3/4" wide 1/2" deep
01:44 AM `Wolf: that shouldn’t be too bad
01:45 AM MrHindsight: http://www.shars.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/540x/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/2/0/202-1392main_3.jpg for a big version of this
01:45 AM `Wolf: yup
01:46 AM `Wolf: usually a U with two blocks welded on I thin
01:46 AM `Wolf: k
01:46 AM MrHindsight: https://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-PERFORMANCE-TOOL-Spanner-Wrench/dp/B00Z3O59O0
01:46 AM MrHindsight: but more bigger
01:46 AM `Wolf: I have a set of those, just not that big
01:47 AM MrHindsight: I can make one
01:47 AM MrHindsight: cut some plate and weld or bolt on an arm for persuasion
01:48 AM `Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/h5owuJf.jpg I think the cylinders are only 4-5” on this thing
01:48 AM MrHindsight: I'd like to find a long reach fork lift like ...
01:49 AM `Wolf: I really want a tele handler
01:49 AM MrHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVW10qQwKfo
01:50 AM MrHindsight: 20k-25k lbs should be enough
01:50 AM `Wolf: yup, telehandler
01:50 AM `Wolf: they make them with quick attach plates that the skid loaders use
01:50 AM MrHindsight: i rarely have anything I need to move heavier than that
01:50 AM MrHindsight: famous last words
01:51 AM `Wolf: I ran one just like in that vid when I worked construction, great machines
01:52 AM `Wolf: moving K barriers around with it
01:52 AM MrHindsight: I can park a semi in here but I can't get my 10K lb forklift down the hall to the doc
01:52 AM MrHindsight: they made the ahlls to narrow and the doors to small
01:52 AM `Wolf: doh
01:52 AM MrHindsight: ahlls/halls
01:53 AM MrHindsight: I can back in a flatbed or full trailer but if it's over 10K lbs I can't unload it
01:54 AM `Wolf: crew building a house across from my parents house got one of those lulls “stuck”, actually turned out that none of them knew how to run the thing
01:54 AM MrHindsight: they made the doors for 6 ft wide by 6 ft high pallets on the dock side
01:55 AM MrHindsight: 12 ft x 12ft on the drive in bay
01:55 AM `Wolf: that wasn’t smart
01:55 AM MrHindsight: cheapskate owners/builders
01:55 AM `Wolf: most forklifts are 7’
01:56 AM MrHindsight: I can get it through the door but can't make the turn down the hallway
01:56 AM `Wolf: and thats level, not tilted… don’t ask how I know this
01:56 AM MrHindsight: need 6" more inches
01:56 AM `Wolf: I bet the forklift will move the wall
01:57 AM MrHindsight: just measured 7' 10" clear height
01:57 AM MrHindsight: it has an extra ton on the back that is removable
01:58 AM MrHindsight: adds another ft to the length
02:00 AM MrHindsight: some idiot before we were here pulled out without raising the doors enough
02:00 AM MrHindsight: roll up doors are all bowed out near the bottom
02:01 AM `Wolf: odd, I have the counterweight off my one truck (because the motor is out) but I don’t think I have seen a extra weight on one
02:02 AM `Wolf: I know all about forklift damages, thats one of my side gigs, doing damage reports for trade show logistics company for 2 of the large shows in this area
02:02 AM Deejay: moin
02:03 AM MrHindsight: https://postimg.cc/image/75aa001yj/
02:03 AM MrHindsight: rear weight ^^
02:04 AM `Wolf: I dunno about that being a aux weight
02:04 AM MrHindsight: it unbolts
02:04 AM Deejay: forklift?
02:04 AM `Wolf: yeah, need to take it off to get to the motor usually
02:04 AM Deejay: ah
02:04 AM MrHindsight: has fins for the the radiator
02:05 AM MrHindsight: 1 to 1-1/4" thread from the size of the head
02:06 AM MrHindsight: the top of the engine has a cover that comes off
02:06 AM MrHindsight: just sheet metal on top
02:07 AM `Wolf: yeah, to pull the motor you need to take the weight off
02:07 AM `Wolf: even then its a pain in the ass lol
02:07 AM MrHindsight: it's a 6-cylinder Ford or Chrysler
02:07 AM MrHindsight: not planning
02:08 AM `Wolf: not much choice when the waterpump goes up
02:08 AM `Wolf: which oddly mine wasn’t over heating, the propane reg would freeze and shut the thing off
02:09 AM MrHindsight: Mopar
02:09 AM MrHindsight: slant 6
02:09 AM `Wolf: mines a isuzu straight 4
02:12 AM MrHindsight: we looked at space that had a 25 ton gantry crane
02:12 AM MrHindsight: ran probably 50ft through the shop
02:12 AM MrHindsight: 20 ft wide
02:13 AM `Wolf: if I ever build a new shop I’m putting a gantry crane in it
02:13 AM MrHindsight: odd owner
02:15 AM MrHindsight: I'll fix the seal and improve the ignition
02:15 AM MrHindsight: probably sell it
02:20 AM `Wolf: fix it and dump it
02:20 AM `Wolf: same plan I have for the 5k I have
02:21 AM MrHindsight: https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/fod/d/1999-komatsu-fg45st-7-10k/6632426712.html
02:21 AM MrHindsight: $12,950? really
02:23 AM `Wolf: does that thing have a heater?
02:23 AM MrHindsight: I guess i got a real deal
02:23 AM MrHindsight: no
02:23 AM `Wolf: the one you linked
02:24 AM MrHindsight: goes through propane pretty quick
02:24 AM `Wolf: big ass box under the control handles
02:25 AM `Wolf: my 8k is a 3 stage w/ side shifter
02:25 AM MrHindsight: has maybe a 2" dia port on the lower left corner
02:26 AM MrHindsight: slots on the side
02:26 AM MrHindsight: don't see any hoses
02:26 AM `Wolf: looks like a aux heater, like you would stick in a skid loader or backhoe
02:26 AM `Wolf: can see the hoses in one of the side pics
02:26 AM MrHindsight: maybe
02:27 AM MrHindsight: gets pretty cold up here yonder
02:27 AM `Wolf: I have the same heater on my shelf
02:27 AM `Wolf: came in a backhoe I had for a while
02:28 AM `Wolf: https://www.skidsteersolutions.com/skid-steer-cab-heater-eterra/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItdSn98KW3AIVQyaGCh14rQhhEAkYAiABEgI17_D_BwE
02:28 AM MrHindsight: $72K for a 5 ton https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/hvd/d/2013-genie-gth-1056/6628648549.html
02:29 AM `Wolf: yeah, those things are crazy expensive
02:29 AM MrHindsight: I have a tiltbed truck service near me rated at 20k lbs
02:30 AM MrHindsight: he can back in and slide a machine off or on
02:30 AM `Wolf: thats handy
02:30 AM MrHindsight: $125/hr
02:31 AM `Wolf: I thought about making a flatbed for my truck to move stuff like that with
02:31 AM MrHindsight: I have 24 ft ceilings
02:31 AM `Wolf: but I’m maxed at just under 5ton by GVW
02:32 AM MrHindsight: need a better space, there is no insulation between units, just 4 layers of sheetrock
02:33 AM MrHindsight: 2 on each side
02:33 AM `Wolf: ugh
02:33 AM MrHindsight: our last space had 8" concrete walls on all asides
02:34 AM MrHindsight: we had a tornado pas nearby and the building was shaking, I was milling at the time and though it was chatter
02:34 AM `Wolf: lol
02:34 AM `Wolf: I just want to drop a 40’x60’ shop in my back yard
02:34 AM MrHindsight: I opened the door to se what was up and the rain was green and blowing sideways
02:35 AM MrHindsight: i was instantly soaked
02:35 AM `Wolf: we don’t get those too often out here
02:35 AM `Wolf: I like 10yrs ago, missed my yard by 100 feet
02:35 AM `Wolf: i/one
02:40 AM MrHindsight: https://postimg.cc/image/ehfq5f9uz/ funnel just forming overhead
02:43 AM `Wolf: never a good sign lol
02:45 AM MrHindsight: https://postimg.cc/image/u46zirdcb/ you can clearly see the front
02:46 AM `Wolf: oh yeah
02:47 AM MrHindsight: wee seem to get one really big storm a month in the summer now
02:47 AM MrHindsight: green skies, near black clouds
02:47 AM MrHindsight: trees down
02:49 AM `Wolf: hmm, what in the quill would cause crunchy noise + vibes, but only at 600 rpm, machine is dead smooth at 1200
02:51 AM MrHindsight: lucky resonance
02:51 AM `Wolf: belt drive machine w/ 2 speed motor
02:51 AM MrHindsight: crinchy is never good
02:52 AM `Wolf: part of me wants to check out the head, other part doesn’t want to pull the motor off the top
02:52 AM MrHindsight: has to be bearings
02:52 AM MrHindsight: unless something else got loose in there
02:53 AM MrHindsight: small nuts or screw or chips
02:53 AM `Wolf: yeah, but motor, quill pulley, or spindle lol
02:54 AM `Wolf: doesn’t help that the 1hp motor is the size of a 2gallon bucket
02:56 AM `Wolf: I think it needs a nice newer brushless w/ vfd
03:00 AM MrHindsight: would a stethoscope help?
03:00 AM `Wolf: I guess I can pull the drive pulley off and clean it, I want to check it anyways to see if I can add the optional spindle brake that is missing
03:00 AM `Wolf: it rattles enough that I can see the DRO shake
03:00 AM `Wolf: in high speed I’ll forget its running
03:03 AM MrHindsight: the spindle on my Matsuura went, makes the occasional crunch sound, still runs at 6K but leakes spindle oil now and the tool changer requires some persuasion
03:04 AM MrHindsight: usually a screw driver driven by a dead blow between holder and chuck
03:05 AM MrHindsight: I have drop the head and upgrade this to something faster
03:12 AM MrHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-5KW-BT30-ATC-Spindle-Motor-Water-cooled-220V-18000rpm-High-Speed-CNC-Engraving/191885161846
03:13 AM MrHindsight: probably little torque <3k rpm
03:14 AM `Wolf: probably
03:14 AM `Wolf: no spec sheet
03:16 AM MrHindsight: https://storecharger.com/product/spindle-cnc-spindle-bt30-synchronous-belt-drive-cnc-milling-machine-bt30-atc-petal-clamp-disc-springdrawbar-machine-tool-2/
03:17 AM MrHindsight: just the spindle and tool changer
03:19 AM MrHindsight: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Machine-center-belt-drive-spindle-5000rpm_60528237371.html
03:19 AM `Wolf: hmm, thought it would cost more
03:19 AM MrHindsight: pick your size, speed and load
03:22 AM MrHindsight: http://www.spindlex.com.tw/en/products_view.asp?ID=182
03:22 AM MrHindsight: http://www.spindlex.com.tw/Upload/products/Pro-20149121443945.pdf actual specs
03:24 AM MrHindsight: http://www.spindlex.com.tw/en/products_view.asp?ID=154
03:24 AM `Wolf: lol they make a iso-10 spindle
03:27 AM `Wolf: damn that torque drops off quick at 10k rpm
03:27 AM MrHindsight: for the ISO 10?
03:27 AM `Wolf: that last one
03:28 AM `Wolf: sy-120
03:28 AM `Wolf: s
03:28 AM MrHindsight: yeah
03:29 AM `Wolf: the iso-10 is only a 60mm spindle, 50k and drops quick at 42k-ish
03:30 AM MrHindsight: they are still open
03:30 AM MrHindsight: 4:30 there
03:30 AM `Wolf: lol I don’t need another project
03:31 AM MrHindsight: http://www.spindlex.com.tw/Upload/products/Pro-20131117147269.pdf BT40
03:34 AM `Wolf: hell I’ll be ecstatic if I can manage to get my plasma cnc built
04:16 AM `Wolf: harbor freight FTW again… 1/4-28 set screws, 3mm hex keyed…
04:20 AM XXCoder: HF forever
04:20 AM XXCoder: may chinese live forever
04:20 AM XXCoder: bah too tired... china
04:22 AM `Wolf: sounded right
04:22 AM `Wolf: all of your cheap tools are belong to us (china)
04:25 AM XXCoder: move the 'ools!
04:26 AM `Wolf: man power tapping on a machine with no reverse or brake is fun….
04:27 AM XXCoder: ecch
04:33 AM `Wolf: 8 holes tapped, no breakage
04:33 AM `Wolf: =)
04:33 AM XXCoder: nice
04:34 AM `Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/iruKupg.jpg should work good, I hope
04:56 AM Loetmichel_: Wolf: i just tapped a dozen M2 threads in Aluminium... 8mm deep... tell me about fear of tap breakage ;)
04:56 AM Loetmichel_: ... with a battery drill in second gear ;)
04:56 AM XXCoder: lot bah thats nothing
04:56 AM Wolf_: ha, no thanks
04:57 AM XXCoder: 4 holes each part, already anodized, its very thin drill, and almost fully inch deep hole
04:57 AM XXCoder: then tapped
04:57 AM XXCoder: I have to hand-clean all tapped holes because derbis dont get out
04:57 AM pink_vampire: link for the amazing tap?
04:57 AM Loetmichel_: where do you get an M2 tap that has 25mm useable length?
04:58 AM XXCoder: special order
04:58 AM XXCoder: its expensive tool
04:58 AM * Loetmichel_ had to grind down the shaft of the m2 tap i have here to get it into the 8mm blind hole already...
04:58 AM XXCoder: basically part final form has 2 different anodized colors, so basically we mill it complete except one area and 4 tapped holes, send it off to be anodided
04:58 AM XXCoder: then we mill the pocket area, add 4 holes
04:59 AM XXCoder: also, cleaning is insane consider runtime is just over 2 minutes and I gonna do 100% cleanup :(
04:59 AM XXCoder: sometimes I even have to re-tap holes
04:59 AM XXCoder: and its 500 parts job lol
05:01 AM XXCoder: also, its not m2
05:01 AM XXCoder: lets see if I could remember drill size
05:01 AM XXCoder: I think its smaller drill
05:01 AM XXCoder: imperial here lol
05:05 AM Loetmichel_: ... was "fun" to cut with that modified tap (lower, the upper one is original, max 6mm deep) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17165&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
05:06 AM pink_vampire: look very nice
05:06 AM XXCoder: why was it needed?
05:07 AM Loetmichel_: needen 8mm deep threads :-)
05:08 AM XXCoder: you cut down a 8 mm tap to be m6 but with 8 mm deep threads?
05:15 AM Loetmichel_: no
05:16 AM Loetmichel_: i grind down the shaft of an M2 tao to reach innto a 8mm deep hole.
05:16 AM Loetmichel_: because original the taps can only reach 6mm deep
05:16 AM Loetmichel_: -o+p
05:17 AM XXCoder: can always do special order but it really need large part numbers order to be worth it
05:17 AM XXCoder: tap for that part I worked on is 5 inches long shaft then 1.25 inch tap. and quite thin
05:26 AM Tom_L: morning
05:26 AM XXCoder: pre-morning
05:27 AM Tom_L: Loetmichel_ i've done that with 4-40 taps
05:27 AM Tom_L: works like a charm
05:38 AM Loetmichel_: yeah. problem is that the thinnest part of that tap is a mere 1,3mm now, and 8mm deep puts quite a bit of torque onto the tap, even if you clean out every few turns and relube.
05:38 AM Loetmichel_: i made it thru 12 holes without a single break, but i sweated it profusely while doing so ;)
06:09 AM jthornton: dang my RPi stopped working but is on line
06:13 AM XXCoder: bitcoin mining, I hope not heh
06:31 AM Snoozer77: Nearly bed time in Aus
06:39 AM jthornton: hmm I can ping the RPi
06:39 AM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/20180710_185128.jpg
06:39 AM XXCoder: jthornton: its probably bitcoin mining lol
06:39 AM XXCoder: is it hot?
06:39 AM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/20180710_190604.jpg
06:40 AM skunkworks: first cut finished
06:40 AM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/20180710_192337.jpg
06:40 AM jthornton: let me see
06:40 AM XXCoder: machine cover?
06:41 AM skunkworks: that is a solid piece of cast.
06:41 AM XXCoder: oh interesting. it sure looked like a cover what with paint and all
06:41 AM skunkworks: it is going to be a riser block for..
06:41 AM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/20180710_174652R.jpg
06:42 AM skunkworks: it was a counter balance for a grinder..
06:42 AM skunkworks: Fhttp://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/DSC_8122.JPG
06:43 AM skunkworks: sorry http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/DSC_8122.JPG
06:46 AM jthornton: no, it's not hot
06:47 AM XXCoder: interesting. I was mostly joking about bitcoins but I guess its not hardware failing
06:47 AM jthornton: odd that ssh 192.168.1.125 works but ssh pi@192.168.1.125 times out
06:48 AM XXCoder: ugh tacoma is starting to bake
06:48 AM XXCoder: mid-late july to aug is the hottest time for this area :(
06:49 AM jthornton: hmm I can log in with putty but not from this linux pc
07:55 AM diverdude: Hi, does anybody in here know about lasercutters? Would it be possible to make a lasercutter draw a QR/datamatrix code on 1x1 mm ?
07:59 AM Beachbumpete1: Ian was pretty good with the lasers in here well...at least until his house burned down ;)
07:59 AM skunkworks: too soon...
07:59 AM Beachbumpete1: IKR
07:59 AM Beachbumpete1: my bad
07:59 AM Beachbumpete1: hehehe
08:00 AM Beachbumpete1: I have not seen him in here in awhile is he even around anymore?
08:00 AM skunkworks: I have not seen him either...
08:00 AM Beachbumpete1: He's on my facebool
08:00 AM Beachbumpete1: k
08:43 AM fishhead is now known as flyback
09:10 AM Tecan: rtttl tone player in python https://www.thingiverse.com/download:5122788
09:12 AM Tecan: https://www.thingiverse.com/download:5122788 new version
09:13 AM Tecan: https://www.thingiverse.com/download:5122837 rather
10:20 AM gloops: been cutting yet arekm
10:20 AM gloops: its too hot here, to do anything
10:37 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
10:47 AM IchGucksLive: qwuiet so holiday
10:50 AM Rab: IchGucksLive, which holiday?
10:51 AM IchGucksLive: summer what else
10:52 AM IchGucksLive: its juli
10:53 AM gloops: too hot
10:53 AM IchGucksLive: gloops, fever is high in ENG
10:53 AM gloops: Ichs yes another big game for us
10:54 AM gloops: trump visit at weekend, brexit turmoil etc
10:55 AM IchGucksLive: its hard hidding the UK
10:57 AM IchGucksLive: gloops, he does critizise the world DT butnot claiming himself
10:58 AM gloops: London will have 3 protests anti-trump, free tommy robinson, anti-brexit - and if we win the football 200 000 drunken fans lol, could get a bit hectic
10:59 AM IchGucksLive: im off floks got a dental operation this morning and im done
10:59 AM gloops: enjoy
10:59 AM IchGucksLive: LOL
11:10 AM jesseg: hey guys, what sort of oil should I use on my little CNC engraver? it's some old Newing-Hall thing - it has a little spindle driven by a short round rubber belt to a much larger pulley on a 120VDC perm mag motor
11:11 AM jesseg: I'd sort of guess 5k to 10k rpm
11:14 AM amxen: just thought id nip and and let you know
11:14 AM jesseg: PS: I'm referring to the spindle bearings :P
11:14 AM amxen: Yay did a little victory dance around the workshop. its working its WORKING. I ordered a new parallel port cable when i ordered a new breakout board and other bit to replace the parts i thought did not work. The cable was the last thing to turn up today, So i thought what the hell ill fit it befor i do the video then moved everything in to position to do the video. I Turned on the computer and the system and CLUNK, i turned around
11:15 AM Rab: amxen, great!
11:15 AM jesseg: amxen, you got cut off after "CLUNK, i turned around"
11:15 AM amxen: pressed the jog and yaaaaay its moving . never been so happy to see something spining around
11:15 AM jesseg: that's wonderful!
11:16 AM Joe_Hildreth: Hello all. On this page: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/hal/parallel-port.html there is a table showing the three modes the PP can be run in.
11:16 AM jesseg: I was thinking of using chainsaw bar oil on my little engraver spindle bearings, since it won't all run out, but I'm not sure if that's so thick the balls would skate
11:17 AM Joe_Hildreth: In the first column, the "in" column pin 14 is listed as an input, I think this should read as an output. Am I correct here?
11:19 AM gloops: good to hear amxen
11:19 AM Joe_Hildreth: Hi gloops
11:19 AM gloops: howdy
11:20 AM jesseg: Joe_Hildreth, I'm checking into it
11:20 AM Joe_Hildreth: Thank you.
11:20 AM amxen: gloops its workin mate
11:21 AM gloops: you did very well there amxen
11:21 AM amxen: it was the bloody parrallel port cable
11:21 AM gloops: others have taken...much longer lol
11:21 AM gloops: yes i thought it was the parport side
11:22 AM amxen: well it was the last thing that came today and i thought what the hell
11:22 AM jesseg: Joe_Hildreth, I'm not sure. Some other sources list pin 14 (the Autofeed) pin as being bidirectional while others indicate it to be just an output. It may be an open collector input/output pin in some printer port modes
11:22 AM gloops: alls well that ends well, the machine works and youre a bit wiser
11:22 AM amxen: change the cable now the output side is changing when i jog . from 5.1 to 3.4v
11:23 AM gloops: the rest is easy
11:25 AM amxen: yes man now i know it works . just got the motor chuning to do now as they jam a little
11:26 AM gloops: what motors are on it?
11:26 AM Joe_Hildreth: jesseg, pin 14 is part of the control group (pins 1, 14, 16 and 17) The diagrams that I have list these as bidirectional. I am going on the assumption that if the other three pins are output that it would follow that pin 14 would be also.
11:28 AM jesseg: Joe_Hildreth, That may not be a solid assumption considering the amount of evolution the parport has had
11:29 AM Joe_Hildreth: jesseg, you may be correct. I think I will set a port as input and see what stepconf lists it as.
11:29 AM jesseg: hrm, this page says not to oil spindle bearings on an engraver: http://www.engravingsys.com/engraving-maintenance/
11:30 AM Joe_Hildreth: I am working on another CNC for the home hobbyist video and am covering the parallel port some more. I just want to make sure I am giving good information, and this just seemed to stick out at me.
11:32 AM Joe_Hildreth: jesseg, from reading the chart, it looks like in out mode that the control pins are all set to outputs, in x mode it looks like they are all set to inputs, while in mode filps that bidirectional data pins. You see my confusion here, yes?
11:32 AM amxen: iv got 2 nema 425s and a 570
11:32 AM amxen: nema23
11:32 AM gloops: are these on 5mm pitch ballscrews - probably 36v power
11:33 AM amxen: i can watch the football without my mind being on electronics now
11:33 AM amxen: me ?
11:34 AM amxen: the 425 are on 36v and the 570 is on 48v
11:34 AM gloops: yeah, and theyre stalling?
11:35 AM amxen: iv turned everything down in mach 3 trying to get it working . all the turning is out
11:38 AM amxen: steps are set to 2000 velocity is at 50 and acceleration at 5 on everything i think
11:39 AM amxen: i think there is a step and drive puls in there as well
11:39 AM amxen: but thats all just stuff that can be set up
11:42 AM gloops: they should run it ok anyway, would keep the amps at max
11:45 AM amxen: yes i think i need to look at the dip switchs again on the driver i may have set the wrong when messing about trying to get it working
11:58 AM Beachbumpete1: oil for what?
12:06 PM gloops: jesseg the spindle bearings are sealed, theyve got lubrication
12:17 PM gregcnc: jesseg what kind of spindle is it?
12:24 PM jesseg: gregcnc, hrm.. It's on an old Newigg/Newing Hall NH100 cnc engraver. It's got a little 120VDC brush perm mag motor with a 2" pulley which drives a 0.675" pulley with a round rubber belt on the spindle.
12:25 PM jesseg: There's two little bearings and the "quill" goes up and down with a little air ram
12:27 PM gregcnc: and hat does the mfg says about lubrication?
12:28 PM jesseg: Not sure... this thing is so bloody old I haven't been able to find much info on it but will try again
12:28 PM jesseg: Is it common for engraver ball bearings to be run dry?
12:28 PM gregcnc: you mean grease?
12:28 PM jesseg: yes
12:29 PM gregcnc: if designed as such
12:29 PM jesseg: as in no grease, no oil, and no air.
12:29 PM jesseg: I mean I'm aware of mag lev bearings, air bearings, oil bearings, but these are just plain ball bearings.
12:30 PM gregcnc: the MFG is still around, they couldn't help?
12:30 PM gregcnc: bearing are run completely dry on very rare occasions
12:30 PM jesseg: at 10k rpm?
12:31 PM gregcnc: there should not be any need to guess at how these spindle should be librucated?
12:31 PM gregcnc: http://www.newing-hall.com/contact/
12:37 PM MrHindsight: diverdude: easily with a galvohead
12:38 PM jesseg: lol thanks gregcnc much appreciated it? I guess I'll shot them a comment. I will be very pleasantly surprised if anyone working there in CS even remembers the NH 100 much less has any info for me, but it's sure worth a try :D
12:39 PM jesseg: that is to say I did shoot them a comment.
12:39 PM gregcnc: I would go there first
12:39 PM gregcnc: beyond that, who else would have a better chance of knowing what they designed?
12:41 PM gregcnc: even old grease would still be present, so maybe they did use oil
12:42 PM jesseg: gregcnc, well, umm, a lot of companies throw out all the old manuals for discontinued products and with employee turnover, it is quite common that contacting a manufacturer of a discontinued product is absolutely worthless. Heh, it's often worthless for a in-production product LOL.
12:42 PM MrHindsight: try contacting them, then post pics of the bearings
12:42 PM gregcnc: i get that, but some places are actually organzed
12:43 PM gregcnc: have you taken this spindle apart?
12:43 PM jesseg: So, in the case of a discontinued product where the manufacturer doesn't even acknowledge having built it and is of zero help, it's more help to ask a random guy on the street, and it's even more likely to be helpful to ask on a forum of seasoned industry experts such as yourself :D
12:43 PM jesseg: gregcnc, oh yeah I took it apart, flushed the bearings and got them nice and clean. Trust me, whatever grease was in there is not in there anymore.
12:43 PM gregcnc: so they were greased
12:44 PM jesseg: no idea
12:44 PM gregcnc: what did you wash away?
12:44 PM jesseg: well I knew there was swarf in them and that was what I was flushing out.
12:44 PM jesseg: If there was grease it was so little left after all these years I didn't see it.
12:44 PM gloops: well, you cant hurt anything by oiling them for now
12:45 PM gregcnc: generally, grease doesn't evaporate into nothing
12:45 PM gloops: England v Croatia coming up!
12:46 PM gregcnc: I'd guess that if there wasn't a means provided to oil regularly, it was greased for life of the bearings
12:46 PM jesseg: gregcnc, well, they could have put in just a small bit so the high speed spindle didn't just throw it all over. And with years of engraving dust (before I had this thing) it could have absorbed it.
12:47 PM jesseg: they are not sealed bearings. They don't have rubber seals, just little metal plates and little clips that hold them in
12:47 PM jesseg: gregcnc, but you have my curiosity up now.. please, if you might be so kind, I would so love to hear about the last high speed dry running ball bearing you saw or read about.
12:47 PM gregcnc: I didn't say high speed
12:47 PM jesseg: Ahh, well, highest speed one you seen or heard of then :D
12:48 PM MrHindsight: unlikely it used bacon fat
12:48 PM gregcnc: I can't think of any specific application off the top of my head either, but have read about. even water for lube
12:48 PM jesseg: yeah there's tons of clever tricks
12:48 PM jesseg: I really like the idea of a fluid bearing - total non contact, very little wear
12:49 PM MrHindsight: but imagine a shop that smells of bacon
12:49 PM gregcnc: https://www.gmnbt.com/vacuum-tech.htm
12:50 PM gloops: if theyre standard bearings you can get some more anyway
12:50 PM gregcnc: bearings, greased for life, usually last long enough
12:51 PM gloops: at least until the guarantee runs out anyway
12:51 PM gregcnc: read up on bearings
12:56 PM fragalot: gregcnc: in fact, they last for the entire lifespan of the bearing, typically
12:57 PM gregcnc: well of course
12:58 PM jesseg: fragalot, the bearing lasts for the lifetime of the bearing? :D
01:00 PM jesseg: Reminds me I heard a kid once say that he could hold his breath for the rest of his life
01:00 PM gregcnc: bearing life is determined by design criteria
01:00 PM gregcnc: and actual load and speed in service
01:05 PM gloops: oh yes! england 1 !
01:07 PM jesseg: thanks very much guys, gotta run
01:08 PM Roguish: wouldn't an England vs France final be great !!
01:12 PM gloops: yes it would be good to have the opportunity to destroy France
01:13 PM fragalot: Roguish: especially because belgium's destroyed england, yet got nutted by france :P
01:13 PM * fragalot whistles & walks off
01:13 PM gloops: that was where you slipped up fragalot haha
01:13 PM fragalot: :D
01:14 PM fragalot: I'm just glad the frenzy is over here
01:15 PM gloops: unlucky not to score against france
01:30 PM gloops: Croatia getting let off the hook here
01:31 PM MrHindsight: https://www.gates.com/us/en/resources/engineering-resources/design-flex-pro-software has a web version
01:34 PM _methods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st8dkGzJWtg
01:34 PM _methods: cool bike gear system
01:34 PM gregcnc: ceramicspeed or project farm?
01:35 PM _methods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=32&v=7gip7TSeKx4
01:35 PM _methods: oops wrong linkie
01:35 PM _methods: ceramicspeed
01:35 PM gregcnc: "it doesn't actually change gears"
01:35 PM gregcnc: that's what I was wondering
01:35 PM gregcnc: it's been on the web for a few days
01:36 PM _methods: still pretty cool
01:37 PM fragalot: performs best at high loads too iirc
01:37 PM gregcnc: definfitely an interesting idea, I just don't know how well it will shift
01:38 PM fragalot: probably be fine if you let off the power whilst shifting
01:38 PM _methods: https://shop.bicymple.com/collections/frontpage/products/bicymple-go
01:38 PM _methods: no chain required lol
01:39 PM fragalot: that looks really uncomfortable
01:39 PM _methods: it makes my brain hurt looking at it for some reason
01:39 PM _methods: like those pictures people draw of things from memory
01:39 PM gregcnc: does it actually sell? that's been around for a few years?
01:40 PM Rab: There's no way that thing can hold together under load. Or under typical road conditions of dirt and debris.
01:40 PM fragalot: Rab: the gear mechanism or the retarted bike?
01:41 PM Rab: fragalot, the ceramicspeed thing.
01:41 PM fragalot: I see no reason why it wouldn't
01:41 PM fragalot: whether the wear is lower than on a chain is a different question
01:41 PM gregcnc: torque is quite high
01:41 PM gregcnc: the tiny bearings?
01:42 PM fragalot: gregcnc: needle rollers should be fine
01:42 PM gregcnc: and 3-4x as wide
01:43 PM fragalot: the load put onto the tiny pin of a chain isn't exactly minimal either tbh
01:43 PM Rab: The force of the bearings against the sprocket plate is trying to lever them apart, with the bearings riding up the teeth. The presumption is that that force can be channeled into turning the plate, but I think both the plate and the driveshaft are liable to flex.
01:44 PM gregcnc: when bike at walmart have them,,,,,
01:45 PM Rab: I believe it would require some extraordinary materials science to produce a plate and driveshaft so stiff that all the force is transmitted at 99% efficiency, given so much torque on such a tiny contact area.
01:46 PM gregcnc: that's why they are selling the idea vs developing it
01:46 PM fragalot: Rab: that is indeed the main issue I can see too
01:47 PM fragalot: making the frame and driveshaft rigid enough is one thing, but making the wheel rigid enough too may require something else
01:47 PM MrHindsight: what Rab said ^^
01:48 PM MrHindsight: more bigger sprocket plate becomes flywheel
01:51 PM MrHindsight: I'd like to see it on a road under load
01:51 PM fragalot: gloops: https://imgur.com/gallery/74DCw1z
01:51 PM MrHindsight: noisy in this vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgo-yEaXDzA
01:52 PM MrHindsight: listen at 3:30
01:53 PM fragalot: ha "gear changing will be provided in the future"
01:54 PM MrHindsight: gear change ready
01:54 PM fragalot: lol
01:55 PM Rab: No pedals or seat provided, they definitely don't want anyone trying to ride it by mistake.
01:57 PM gloops: fragalot thats not the scots, it funded by a dangerous far left militant organisation
01:57 PM fragalot: gloops: so ireland?
01:59 PM gloops: the SNP
02:01 PM MrHindsight: it looks pretty but imagine a good strong crank, it would bend or snap
02:02 PM fragalot: Back to BWM's implementation then. :P
02:04 PM MrHindsight: needs biofeedback....
02:04 PM MrHindsight: it automatically adjusts the gear ratio based on heart rate, O2 blood %, respiration etc etc
02:05 PM fragalot: :P
02:05 PM fragalot: I bought an electric folding bike this saturday
02:05 PM fragalot: quite spiffy acceleration with those tiny wheels
02:06 PM MrHindsight: fragalot: have any sources for BT40 spindles 10k-20K rpm
02:07 PM fragalot: afraid not
02:07 PM fragalot: didn't even know BT40 went to 20K rpm
02:09 PM fragalot: http://www.royal-spindles.com.tw/catalog/catalog_EN-new.pdf RE4087
02:09 PM MrHindsight: http://www.spindlex.com.tw/en/products_view.asp?ID=138
02:10 PM MrHindsight: spindle and motor
02:10 PM fragalot: http://www.posa-spindle.com/en/product-216-30 15K
02:11 PM MrHindsight: yeah looked at the Posa's yesterday
02:11 PM fragalot: lots of taiwanese companies making 'm. spintrue is anothe rone
02:12 PM MrHindsight: http://spintrue.com.tw/Belt-Type-Spindle.html
02:13 PM fragalot: indeed
02:13 PM MrHindsight: http://spintrue.com.tw/Motor-Spindle.html
02:14 PM MrHindsight: gregcnc: know anyone that does precision grinding around here?
02:15 PM MrHindsight: I bought a surface grinder from an outfit in elk grove but I'm not sure I'd use them, kind of hacky
02:15 PM gregcnc: https://www.gagegrinding.com/
02:15 PM gregcnc: I think I was going to try them for something, but no experience
02:15 PM MrHindsight: I know where they are
02:15 PM MrHindsight: looked at space over there
02:17 PM Tom_L: MrHindsight where do you find out the belt data for those spindles?
02:17 PM Tom_L: 5GT series?
02:17 PM fragalot: gregcnc: needs more g's in the name, like gagegogugrinding, pronounced with a slight stutter.
02:18 PM gregcnc: lol
02:19 PM MrHindsight: Tom_L: https://www.gates.com/us/en/power-transmission/synchronous-belts/c/119
02:19 PM Tom_L: do those have stud pullers built in?
02:21 PM MrHindsight: Tom_L: the spindles, yes some
02:21 PM MrHindsight: hydraulic or pneumatic
02:21 PM Tom_L: air cylinder?
02:21 PM Tom_L: ahh
02:21 PM MrHindsight: from searching some vendors offer a wide selection...
02:22 PM MrHindsight: you pick the power range, speed, holder and ATC or not
02:22 PM MrHindsight: coolant through the tool etc
02:23 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: airbearing or hydrostatic? :P
02:23 PM MrHindsight: heh, air bearings are another story
02:25 PM MrHindsight: https://www.ibagnorthamerica.com/ibag-spindles-plug-n-go-spindles
02:25 PM MrHindsight: https://www.ibagnorthamerica.com/ibag-spindles-large-spindles
02:27 PM MrHindsight: wonder what this puppy costs https://www.ibagnorthamerica.com/hf-170-ai-20-p-45.html
02:28 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: the HF stands for Harbor Freight
02:29 PM MrHindsight: guaranteed to be made of some metal
02:29 PM MrHindsight: "spindle will spin or your money back"
02:31 PM Rab: I wonder if anybody's ever taken a geiger counter or portable nuclear analyzer to Harbor Fright to check out their cast iron.
02:31 PM Rab: I'm sure if it was really hot, it'd be stopped at the port...right?
02:32 PM MrHindsight: could make for a fun video
02:32 PM MrHindsight: yeah, i wonder if you can check the customs reports for events like that
02:32 PM MrHindsight: do they publish "hot" shipments online somewhere?
02:33 PM Rab: I doubt it, seems like strategic info.
02:36 PM MrHindsight: ship hot items, see if detected, if no, send hotter items, rinse repeat
02:38 PM MrHindsight: http://www.twspindle.com/pulley-driven.htm
02:42 PM MrHindsight: the Chines spindle vendors must just make direct copies of the Taiwanese spindles, the pics look nearly identical, even the anodize colors
02:43 PM gloops: Croatia fight back but their legs cant last much longer!
02:46 PM MrHindsight: are HSK40E chucks relatively new?
02:47 PM MrHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_taper#HSK_taper
03:11 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: new in machining terms, they're more aimed towards high RPM, high rigidity applications
03:12 PM * Loetmichel just watched a Sabine Schmitz video .... MAAN that "girl" is cool... 300kph on the ring and she still does casual talk... would like to have her taxi me around the ring in her M3... but thats 500 a lap... not really my wallet size... -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnALDbokB0g
03:21 PM rmu: uiuiui
03:25 PM XXCoder: MrHindsight: few machines at work uses this. it's quite different
03:26 PM XXCoder: notch on one side is for aligning correct side when inserting
03:26 PM XXCoder: it can fit either way but its bad if you put it other way
03:29 PM XXCoder: smallest holder I ever seen is I guess called cat10. It can be hidden by closing hand around it
03:37 PM gloops: Croatia make the final
03:38 PM gloops: England out, have to say Croatia marginally deserved the win
03:42 PM Deejay: gn8
03:48 PM gloops: so we do get to play Belgium haha
04:03 PM MrHindsight: skunkworks: did you take and post any pics of your Matsuura spindle when you added the encoder to it?
04:07 PM MrHindsight: https://postimg.cc/image/6hxl59o2j/ ballscrew pron for those that missed it
04:18 PM MrHindsight: http://electronicsam.com/images/matsuura/
04:38 PM jesseg: gregcnc, well you were right - Newing-Hall did respond - and after I sent him dimensions of bearing, confirmed they can sell me new bearings for $40/ea if needed, and that they do have a special grease they put in their but he couldn't tell me what kind it was. He even contacted the bearing manufacturer to ask them about the prospect of me cleaning and re-lubricating the bearings. The manufacturer rolled twice in their grave, climbed out and offered to r
04:38 PM jesseg: ebuild the bearings in their class 100 clean room for $5-$10 if I mailed them to them.
04:38 PM gregcnc: well dang
04:38 PM gregcnc: seems fair
04:39 PM jesseg: lol absolutely
04:39 PM jesseg: so I still don't know what kind of grease but at least I know they probably did have grease LOL.
04:39 PM gregcnc: probably Kluber of some sort
04:40 PM jesseg: so I figure I'll try a little bar & chain oil since it's rated at 60 MPH (that's 96km/h!!) and just see what happens. If it gets hot then I'll perhaps try some Timken's High Speed Spindle Grease or maybe some clarified non-salted organic butter I don't know :P
04:44 PM Rab: There's some nasty stuff in bar oil, tackifiers etc. I wouldn't use it in spindle bearings.
04:46 PM gloops: high melting temp grease
04:46 PM gloops: like wheel bearing grease
04:47 PM jesseg: Rab, what problems would you expect with bar oil in a small spindle bearing?
04:53 PM jesseg: yeah gloops there's nasty stuff in bearing grease, like alkali metal soap LOL
04:54 PM Rab: jesseg, I hypothesize that the tackifiers would work against proper flow of the oil at high speeds, resulting in poor lubrication and hot spots.
04:55 PM Rab: This might be appropriate: https://www.3inone.com/products/motor-oil/
04:56 PM jesseg: I wonder if Kluber would also not flow right since it's a soaped up gel
04:56 PM Rab: But I think you would need frequent re-oiling. I think the proper solution is really to pack the bearings with high-speed grease.
04:56 PM jesseg: yeah could be
04:56 PM gloops: jesseg are these modular bearings, like - you can buy a new set off the shelf?
04:57 PM Rab: If you're getting in there to repack them, might as well replace them.
04:57 PM jesseg: gloops, $40 each from Newing Hall. I cannot find them listed on any other vendor. They are super thin - 0.5"ID and 0.75OD, 0.196" thick.
04:58 PM jesseg: At $80/set with as easy as it is to take apart I'd definitely try repacking them :D
04:58 PM Rab: OK, fine.
04:58 PM gloops: yes, if theyre good, worth greasing them, at those prices
05:00 PM jesseg: they seem good, a little more noisy than brand new bearings, but not that bad and seem to have no slop and spin really free
05:00 PM jesseg: so for my once in a while use they should last a while
05:03 PM gloops: yes, should last forever
05:23 PM jesseg: oh hey guys what about a dry lube like, oh, let's say ws2 (Tungsten di-sulfide) lubes for small spindle bearings?
05:40 PM gregcnc: you're over thinking this. if you really want to know pick up a machine tooling bearing engieering manual and see what they recommend. otherwise for the 20$ send it in
05:41 PM jesseg: well, it's not the $20, it's that they'd need to be forced out of the spindle tube, and there's no way to press on the outer race for removal... and I am worried about damaging things if I press them out via the inner race.
05:41 PM jesseg: but maybe I'm overthinking that too :D
05:41 PM jesseg: that is a handicap of mine :P
05:45 PM gregcnc: in that type of a design there simply is no need to push out a good bearing, so your press where you can and install new
05:46 PM gregcnc: steel housing?
05:46 PM `Wolf_: hmm, that does say 3/4” right http://a.co/5tdWMp3 … mic one and its 0.6675” >.<
05:47 PM `Wolf_: 17mm
05:47 PM `Wolf_: thats sorta close…
05:47 PM gregcnc: 6003 are 17x35x10mm always
05:48 PM `Wolf_: … didn’t even notice that, was ordering in a hurry
05:53 PM jesseg: gregcnc, housing is either steel or stainless steel, looks like stainless to me.
05:55 PM jesseg: but it could just be steel that was polished and never rusted a speck in 20 years or whatever, but I'm not buying that story :P
05:58 PM `Wolf_: same dumb ass seller has 6202 listed at 5/8”….
06:05 PM `Wolf_: bearings being the wrong size isn’t the end of the world, just a pain in the ass, I going to be lazy and use 3/4 stock for axles on project lol
06:07 PM andypugh: Metric bearings have metric dimensions. Why would you expect otherwise?
06:08 PM `Wolf_: because it was 6am when I hit the order and the things are listed as “M-jump 10 Pcs ID 3/4" x OD 1-3/8" Flanged Ball Bearing,Double Sealed,Widely used in Lawn Mower, Wheelbarrows, Carts & Hand Trucks Wheel Hub - F6003 2RS”
06:09 PM andypugh: Imperial bearings have names like KLNJ3/42RS
06:10 PM `Wolf_: I didn’t even notice the bearing number in the listing, was in a hurry to get order set for same day delivery before I got some sleep
06:10 PM andypugh: Though, now I come to check, I found… https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p183459/16302RS-Imperial-Deep-Groove-Ball-Bearing-with-Rubber-Seals-3/4x1-5/8x0.5inch-(1630RS)/product_info.html
06:11 PM andypugh: So that could esaily be mistaken for a 6302
06:12 PM `Wolf_: bore size is listed in the product description 3 times, didn’t think I needed to double check the bearing number lol
06:13 PM andypugh: Yes, you have been sent something “not as described” and should get a refund.
06:13 PM `Wolf_: https://www.amazon.com/M-jump-Flanged-Bearing-Double-Wheelbarrows/dp/B07D5VRKFZ/ref=sr_1_2?m=AC4LCD65VOKLK&s=merchant-items&ie=UTF8&qid=1531350787&sr=1-2&keywords=flanged+bearing
06:13 PM `Wolf_: seems they don’t understand bearing sizes
06:19 PM `Wolf_: well, on the plus side I can turn down the shafts to a shoulder and won’t have to put stop rings on them lol
06:26 PM `Wolf_: not critical application anyways https://i.imgur.com/Yu2Ap5Y.jpg =D
06:26 PM `Wolf_: large RC toy
06:30 PM hazzy-lab: That IS large!
06:30 PM `Wolf_: actually its the same size as my rc truck…
06:31 PM `Wolf_: https://i.imgur.com/VbgciJh.jpg
06:33 PM `Wolf_: I need to come up with a creative way to add cleats to the tracks tho
06:33 PM `Wolf_: I have a feeling its going to handle like driving on ice
06:56 PM jesseg: `Wolf_, you must stop your project right away. You are having way too much fun and it's not fair to the rest of us. :P
06:56 PM `Wolf_: lol
07:03 PM `Wolf_: I should be working on the lawn mower
07:03 PM `Wolf_: 180mm x 72mm pitch, 39 link https://i.imgur.com/O3CnWmh.jpg
07:04 PM jesseg: is that for yo ur new RC mower?
07:05 PM `Wolf_: yeah, using 2 right angle wheelchair motors and a 13hp deck
07:05 PM jesseg: LOL cool
07:05 PM `Wolf_: its that or I’ll be mounting the tracks on a hydraulic drive mower
07:06 PM `Wolf_: only issue with that is it would be wide a hell
07:08 PM `Wolf_: 52”/1.3m cutting deck + 2x 7”/180mm tracks…
07:09 PM `Wolf_: plus side, drive control is easy with the hydro, just toss two 1/5 scale rc servos on the hydro pump levers, relay for the deck clutch, relay for start and kill switch
07:10 PM `Wolf_: FPV camera so can mow from the AC in the house...
07:15 PM jesseg: "My lawnmower has air conditioning." LOL.
07:17 PM hazzy-lab: jesseg: and a cab the size of a house
07:18 PM hazzy-lab: `Wolf_: What I like it that power stroke ...
07:18 PM `Wolf_: i’ve almost cause a accident on the road infront of my house while mowing https://youtu.be/vzffTzZITLc
07:19 PM `Wolf_: had someone just about stop in the middle of the road and started videoing the mower going
07:20 PM TurBoss: Lcvette: hello!
07:20 PM Lcvette[m]: hello
07:20 PM Lcvette[m]: mad computer skills
07:20 PM Lcvette[m]: associating with bots
07:21 PM Lcvette[m]: somebody stop me
07:22 PM TurBoss: :)
07:23 PM andypugh: `Wolf_: can’t you install Roomba software?
07:23 PM `Wolf_: jesseg: this is the real reason for the rc mower https://youtu.be/k-PeA20v6eE much hill
07:23 PM `Wolf_: everyone asks me that, I don’t want a 800lb mower that navigates by brail
07:24 PM andypugh: Does it have a gyro?
07:24 PM `Wolf_: roomba works off bumper sensors
07:25 PM andypugh: That was a diffeent question :-)
07:25 PM `Wolf_: lol
07:25 PM andypugh: In the first video it seems to be needing a lot of correction. A rate-gyro might help with that
07:26 PM andypugh: (It made controlling our RobotWars robot much easier)
07:26 PM `Wolf_: no its all manual drive, no gyro, correction needed due to the hill, like 30%+ grade
07:26 PM `Wolf_: plus trying to hold the phone to vid while driving
07:27 PM andypugh: If you use an RC transmitter that understands V-tail and fit a gyro between the reciever and servos then it will tend to track straight unless you actively turn.
07:27 PM `Wolf_: I was using a v-tail mix for that
07:28 PM andypugh: So you are nearly there. Gyros are cheap. (and tasty)
07:28 PM `Wolf_: but not sure how that would work, most gyros are only one channel
07:28 PM `Wolf_: I would have to adapt a flight controller with v-tail mix onboard
07:29 PM andypugh: I am not sure either, but we definitely had one in the robot. (someone else did the electronics)
07:29 PM `Wolf_: and hope the vibes from the mower deck doesn’t throw everything off
07:29 PM `Wolf_: I have a tail gyro in one of my 1/16 rc cars
07:29 PM `Wolf_: too fast to try to control otherwise
07:31 PM andypugh: Google is not helpiong, but we definitely had V-tail in the transmittter and a gyro in the robot.
07:31 PM `Wolf_: https://i.imgur.com/Wjk7TtQ.jpg someone had the bright idea to stuff a 1/10 scale brushless in to it running 3s lips
07:31 PM `Wolf_: lipo
07:33 PM `Wolf_: yeah, not sure how they might have done it, more likely with a MCU + gyro sensor and some coding
07:35 PM SpeedEvil: I was about to say 'doesn't the can get stuck on stuff'
07:35 PM SpeedEvil: :)
07:35 PM andypugh: Pretty sure it was off-the-shelf (this was 1999)
07:35 PM `Wolf_: ooo hmm
07:35 PM `Wolf_: so no electronic esc
07:36 PM `Wolf_: er no electronic motor control I mean
07:36 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pla06PO6Odk alternative for grass trimming
07:36 PM `Wolf_: lol
07:37 PM andypugh: We had some RC-servo to digital-potentiometer boards driving golf-cart controllers.
07:38 PM `Wolf_: I wonder if they make a v-tail gyro
07:39 PM `Wolf_: seems they do https://www.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=HRCM6176&P=FR&gclid=CjwKCAjw1ZbaBRBUEiwA4VQCIbLYqolTtFh-tcOUSFPcamnEyC-iz0KpbI7XKkWB3TS7BxHYf9c-UxoCRUUQAvD_BwE
07:39 PM `Wolf_: I think I’m using a delta mix
07:40 PM `Wolf_: least on the pain in the ass DX6
07:44 PM andypugh: Anyway. time to go
08:43 PM jesseg: `Wolf, pretty cool! by the way if you ever get bored with RC mowers, and want to try autonomous, you're welcome to my simple robot navigation source code, although I'm sure there's better systems like DIYDrones or whatnot.
08:49 PM `Wolf: hmm neat, maybe
08:50 PM `Wolf: jesseg: I just found this on youtube https://youtu.be/WfH2YJvONDw
08:51 PM `Wolf: I have to wonder how they are tracking because they say no GPS or wheel encoders
08:52 PM `Wolf: oh wait, they are working on system with no gps
08:53 PM `Wolf: and those amazon bearings, I sent the seller a message, full refund on order =)
09:05 PM Lcvette: anyone using a WHB04-L wireless pendant?
09:06 PM `Wolf: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Using_A_XHC-HB04_Wireless_MPG_Pendant
09:06 PM `Wolf: I’m not but I have been thinking about it
09:07 PM `Wolf: I’m cheap so I have been using a wireless game pad I already had
09:07 PM Lcvette: lol
09:07 PM Lcvette: yeah I've been there and a 35 page that earlier as well
09:07 PM Lcvette: they somewhat contradict each other
09:08 PM Lcvette: i think that wiki is outdated now
09:09 PM `Wolf: tried https://forum.linuxcnc.org/10-advanced-configuration/32421-xhc-hb04-basic-setup-in-2-8 ?
09:09 PM Lcvette: oooh
09:09 PM Lcvette: missed that one let me check
09:10 PM `Wolf: I remember needing to look all over to get my usb joystick to work https://i.imgur.com/WUrLcnK.jpg
09:12 PM pfred1: USB is my next project
09:13 PM `Wolf: I totally forgot about pendant for my cnc plasma build…
09:13 PM `Wolf: guess I should get one of those ordered lol
09:14 PM `Wolf: wow they are cheap now, $90 from amazon
09:15 PM Lcvette: yeah
09:15 PM Lcvette: I've had none for a few years now
09:15 PM Lcvette: mine*
09:15 PM `Wolf: use to be $150+ wasn’t it?
09:18 PM Lcvette: yeah o think i paid $159 for mine
09:18 PM `Wolf: so all the buttons are mapable
09:20 PM pfred1: too bad they're not maple
09:20 PM `Wolf: :P
09:20 PM pfred1: then you could lick them and they'd taste good
09:20 PM pfred1: I am a SPDIF convert
09:21 PM pfred1: this stuff sounds amazing
09:21 PM `Wolf: I think my plasma build is going to need that pendant
09:22 PM pfred1: I wish water jet was DIYable
09:22 PM `Wolf: I’m thinking about putting everything in the machine carriage
09:22 PM pfred1: plasma kinda sux
09:22 PM `Wolf: mini itx and all
09:22 PM `Wolf: yeah kinda
09:22 PM `Wolf: except the cost per cut
09:22 PM `Wolf: I think its a bit less
09:22 PM Lcvette: what torch type
09:23 PM pfred1: I was BSing with a guy that had a water jet
09:23 PM `Wolf: using a hypertherm w/ machine torch
09:23 PM pfred1: he said he stacked steel on the table a foot tall and cut through all of it at once
09:23 PM `Wolf: yep, I went to see a demo of the o maxx machines
09:23 PM pfred1: it's a shame the machine cost over a million though
09:24 PM pfred1: but what beautiful cuts like someone polished it
09:24 PM Lcvette: blowback start?
09:24 PM `Wolf: guy brought in a 8” thick chunk of aluminum and they cut it, nice straight kerf
09:24 PM `Wolf: HF start i think
09:24 PM pfred1: I swear the guy didn't sleep
09:24 PM pfred1: to pay the bank he had to run it 24/7
09:25 PM `Wolf: lol
09:25 PM `Wolf: one I looked at was only $80k I think
09:25 PM Lcvette: tuning yet?
09:25 PM Lcvette: running*
09:25 PM `Wolf: no, still theory right now lol
09:26 PM Lcvette: i had nightmares with HF start
09:26 PM pfred1: wow adding this surround sound system was totally worth it
09:26 PM Lcvette: had to get a blowback start machine
09:26 PM `Wolf: I know I can disable the HF start on the hypertherm
09:26 PM Lcvette: ok good
09:27 PM pfred1: HF start is nice
09:27 PM `Wolf: its a older powermax1000
09:27 PM Lcvette: except for cnc
09:27 PM pfred1: pfft
09:27 PM pfred1: my BOB is noise immune
09:27 PM `Wolf: so it has gouge mode with no HF I think
09:28 PM pfred1: I have one of those crappy Chinese air spindles and it doesn't phase it
09:28 PM Lcvette: big difference between hf start and spindle
09:28 PM `Wolf: I’m hoping having most of the control all nicely packed in to one box might help
09:28 PM pfred1: I didn't have to put caps on the motor or anything
09:29 PM pfred1: just make your system not so flighty
09:29 PM Lcvette: i tried everything
09:29 PM pfred1: make it so it needs some current to fire
09:29 PM `Wolf: only antenna on the system will be the lead to the THC stepper
09:29 PM pfred1: I used pull up and pull down resistors
09:30 PM pfred1: so it needs a couple real milliamps to do anything
09:30 PM Tom_L: Lcvette, hoz it goin?
09:31 PM Lcvette: Tom_L: what up man
09:31 PM Tom_L: get your mill goin yet?
09:32 PM Lcvette: just got my bearing cars yesterday
09:32 PM Tom_L: ahh
09:32 PM Lcvette: have not had a chance to install them yet
09:32 PM Lcvette: hoping tomorrow
09:33 PM Tom_L: gettin ready to whittle this out of aluminum tomorrow hopefully: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/temp/Toolpath.jpg
09:33 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/temp/Skate_Truck1.jpg
09:35 PM Lcvette: won't load
09:36 PM Tom_L: should
09:36 PM Tom_L: the logs work for you
09:37 PM Tom_L: anyway, about to call it a night
09:37 PM Lcvette: nice
09:39 PM Tom_L: hope you get it goin soon
09:40 PM Lcvette: me to
09:43 PM pfred1: fire it up
09:52 PM `Wolf: thanks Lcvette another $90 to spend on my cnc that is just a box of parts right now lol
09:53 PM `Wolf: guess I need to stop thinking about that build and get it going
09:58 PM pfred1: thinking is good
09:59 PM pfred1: I'm thinkingthis sound upgrade worked
10:00 PM `Wolf: lol
10:02 PM pfred1: I think a lot before I do anything
10:03 PM pfred1: sometimes it helps
10:06 PM `Wolf: sometimes
10:09 PM `Wolf: well this might be fun, only 1.5” round stock I have is 7075…
10:11 PM Tom_L: what's wrong with 7075?
10:12 PM `Wolf: seems like overkill lol
10:13 PM `Wolf: actually, I have a piece of 2024 stuck in the drive gears I forgot about
10:14 PM roycroft: are there a lot of folks who have 3d printers that they run with linuxcnc?
10:15 PM roycroft: i don't see much talk about that
10:15 PM roycroft: mostly traditional subtractive machines
10:16 PM `Wolf: lcnc seems like it would be a pain for 3d printer w/ all the firmwares out for arduino and smoothie
10:17 PM `Wolf: I have 3d printer running ramps/marlin firmware and a 2.5W laser running on smoothie, both IMO work fine for that sorta thing w/ no real gain running them with linux cnc
10:18 PM roycroft: i know next to nothing about 3d printers at this point
10:18 PM roycroft: i need some small parts that i can purchase for way too much money that are commercially 3d printed
10:18 PM Tom_L: 2024 doesn't machine that well does it?
10:19 PM `Wolf: $40 for arduino based ramps board w/ lcd and 3x stepper drivers
10:19 PM Tom_L: seems kinda gummy
10:19 PM `Wolf: yeah it is
10:19 PM roycroft: it makes sense to me to consider getting a 3d printer and making them myself
10:19 PM `Wolf: yeah, thats a good use case for a 3d printer
10:20 PM roycroft: they would be best made of nylon
10:20 PM roycroft: and what little i know means i need an all-metal extruder for nylon
10:20 PM roycroft: and that doubles the cost of a low-end 3d printer
10:21 PM `Wolf: if you scratch build the printer the cost will be lower then a low end unit
10:21 PM roycroft: that's what i figured
10:21 PM roycroft: hence my question about using linucnc
10:21 PM roycroft: linuxcnc
10:21 PM `Wolf: pay $250 for $75 in parts lol
10:21 PM roycroft: my 'x' key is sticky :(
10:23 PM roycroft: i really only need something that can print 100mmx100mmx100mm for now
10:23 PM roycroft: so it could be pretty small
10:23 PM `Wolf: my printer was $700…. with what I know now, I wouldn’t even think of paying 1/2 that for a printer
10:24 PM pfred1: yeah it seems like there's good printers today for about $200
10:24 PM roycroft: i think the all-metal extruders themselves cost more than $200
10:25 PM roycroft: but when i'm looking at 4 parts that cost $25 each, and i might need to buy 4 of those parts 5-6 times in all, investing in a 3d printer isn't a bad idea
10:25 PM roycroft: there's probably $2 worth of nylon in each part
10:26 PM pfred1: filament is expensive
10:26 PM `Wolf: well, all ya need is ramps kit, 4 nema 17 steppers, threaded rod x2 or acme if you want 1st class, V slot extrude (quiet) + wheels or linear rails of some sort, PSU, and the hot end/extruder which I would look at the titan aero
10:26 PM roycroft: i'm talking about parts that are essentially cylindrical
10:26 PM roycroft: they're 19mm in diameter
10:27 PM `Wolf: sounds like a part to lathe make
10:27 PM roycroft: and about 50mm long
10:27 PM roycroft: they're somewhat complex parts to make
10:27 PM roycroft: i'm just talking about overall dimensions in reference to the cost of the filament
10:28 PM `Wolf: ok, what tolerance needed?
10:28 PM roycroft: 0.1mm would be ideal
10:28 PM roycroft: 0.3mm would probably be acceptable
10:28 PM `Wolf: thats doable on 3d fdm
10:30 PM `Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/kZMraDQ.jpg PETG printed part, led lens dimensions direct from calipers into cad, right to the printer, just had to clean the seam flash out of the holes and tight slip fit
10:30 PM roycroft: yeah, i don't think i'm asking for too much
10:30 PM Tecan: great success for musical printing https://www.thingiverse.com/download:5125063
10:30 PM Tecan: puts m300 at nth line in gcode
10:31 PM `Wolf: 4 front screw holes are ugly because unsupported at the top and PETG doesn’t bridge well
10:33 PM roycroft: i'm off to the oregon country fair tomorrow
10:33 PM roycroft: i'll have a lot of free time over the next few days
10:34 PM roycroft: so i checked out some 3d printing books from the library today
10:34 PM `Wolf: back side of that thing https://i.imgur.com/Io8qBWt.jpg
10:34 PM roycroft: i'll probably know a bit more about them after this weekend
10:34 PM `Wolf: not much to them
10:34 PM roycroft: sounds like you're suggesting linuxcnc might not be the best software to drive one
10:35 PM roycroft: that there are some common arduino/rpi drivers for them
10:35 PM `Wolf: yeah, 3d printing firmware has all the stuff figured out already
10:36 PM roycroft: i'm assuming i can model in solidworks and there will be some software that can read my solidworks files and do the slicing/gcode generation
10:36 PM `Wolf: http://a.co/gjp6R1q
10:37 PM `Wolf: there is more advanced stuff like smoothie and whatnot but dirt cheap and simple is that imo
10:37 PM roycroft: to describe the initial parts i need
10:37 PM roycroft: they're expanding bench dogs
10:37 PM roycroft: 19mm diameter cylinder
10:37 PM roycroft: it needs to expand to 20mm to lock in place
10:38 PM roycroft: there's a central bore
10:38 PM roycroft: a hex shaped recess on the bottom, that a hex bolt beds into
10:38 PM roycroft: a knob at the top will pull the hex bolt up
10:38 PM `Wolf: might be a issue with them breaking at the print layers
10:38 PM roycroft: the bottom will have vertical slits
10:38 PM roycroft: so that as the bolt is pulled up they will mushroom out
10:39 PM `Wolf: have to think of the 3d print like wood grain
10:39 PM roycroft: they could be printed sideways then
10:39 PM `Wolf: that would work
10:39 PM roycroft: and there would not be a lot of torque involved
10:40 PM `Wolf: I would make them out of acetal or nylon rod, just cnc the hex in to the bottom and slit them in a jig on the table saw
10:40 PM roycroft: i don't have a cnc mill yet
10:40 PM roycroft: that would make more sense if i did
10:40 PM `Wolf: yeah that makes it harder lol
10:40 PM roycroft: but yeah, i'm pretty uncertain about low end 3d printers
10:41 PM `Wolf: you could do the cylinder on lathe and print the base parts lol
10:41 PM roycroft: i know that the higher end ones, the ones that cost 5-6 figures, do really good work
10:41 PM roycroft: they mostly use laser sintering, i believe
10:41 PM `Wolf: yeah
10:42 PM `Wolf: thats a diffrent world IMO
10:42 PM roycroft: and that might be the world that makes sense to me for 3d printing
10:42 PM `Wolf: you can print rocket engine nozzles on those
10:42 PM roycroft: not that i would ever invest in one
10:42 PM roycroft: i'm not interesting in a 3d printer for a hobby
10:42 PM roycroft: interested
10:42 PM roycroft: if i build/purchase one it will be to make parts
10:43 PM roycroft: and maybe that's just not feasible on a small budget
10:43 PM `Wolf: make a drawing up and I’ll print parts and mail them, just pay for the flat rate box ;P
10:43 PM roycroft: i'll probably need them on a recurring basis
10:43 PM `Wolf: like i said also, can mix the build type
10:45 PM roycroft: some folks make these things out of wood
10:45 PM roycroft: and i can do that
10:45 PM `Wolf: the mandrel part sounds like a good for 3d print part, layers would work like stack of washers
10:46 PM roycroft: it just seemed like an opportunity to look into a 3d printer
10:46 PM `Wolf: the dog half not so much lol
10:47 PM roycroft: well, i figure that after the weekend i'll know a lot more about low end 3d printers
10:47 PM roycroft: and i may well be dissuaded of the notion to build/purchase one
10:47 PM roycroft: or not
10:48 PM `Wolf: it can be handy thing if you can cad the parts yourself
10:49 PM `Wolf: I’ve used mine to make fixtures for milling things
10:49 PM `Wolf: and the change gears for the lathe lol
10:50 PM `Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/IkDCyhS.jpg https://i.imgur.com/d6eqnNG.jpg
10:51 PM `Wolf: last thing off the printer, did this yesterday while I was milling stuff https://i.imgur.com/8lZSojO.jpg
10:59 PM roycroft: those gears will be durable?
11:02 PM `Wolf: hopefully
11:03 PM `Wolf: I used a abs printed one on my 7x10 lathe
11:03 PM roycroft: if it's as durable as the plastic ones that ship with the lathe that's great
11:03 PM `Wolf: plus its only for driving the feed screw
11:03 PM `Wolf: means it will break if something crashes
11:04 PM roycroft: yes, which is the desired behavior
11:04 PM roycroft: especially since you can easily print a replacement
11:04 PM roycroft: a shear gear, if you will
11:04 PM `Wolf: my 12x37 was missing 3 gears and the thread dial
11:05 PM `Wolf: trying to figure out where you can order gears for a 1980 lathe is fun…
11:06 PM roycroft: my 12x37 is from the early '80s
11:06 PM roycroft: there are still some parts available from jet
11:07 PM roycroft: and also from grizzly, who made an almost identical lathe
11:07 PM roycroft: i was able to get a steady rest and follow rest from grizzly for mine
11:07 PM `Wolf: mine is a enco, Dar-sin taiwan
11:07 PM roycroft: the mounting holes are in different locations on the grizzly parts
11:07 PM roycroft: but they otherwise fit just fine
11:07 PM pfred1: sweet
11:07 PM `Wolf: cool
11:08 PM roycroft: i also was able to get some new wipers from grizzly that are a perfect fit
11:08 PM `Wolf: I know there is a jet model that parts are available that looks identical to this one
11:08 PM roycroft: so if you're looking for parts for yourse, don't just look at enco
11:08 PM pfred1: enco got bought out
11:08 PM `Wolf: and one of the grizzlies, but the tooth count doesn’t match any of their machines
11:09 PM `Wolf: the only thing enco on the lathe was the decal lol
11:09 PM pfred1: MSC owns Enco now
11:09 PM `Wolf: yup
11:09 PM pfred1: I got a hell of a deal on my scme thread off Enco
11:09 PM pfred1: acme thread even
11:10 PM pfred1: that was before they got bought out
11:10 PM roycroft: mce have owned enco for many years
11:10 PM pfred1: nah not that many
11:10 PM roycroft: it's just a couple years ago that they shut down the enco brand
11:10 PM roycroft: and promised me that they would sell me stuff for the same price as i paid at enco
11:10 PM roycroft: but then refused to do so
11:10 PM pfred1: I remember getting the notifications about it
11:11 PM roycroft: the exact same items went up about 30% on average
11:11 PM pfred1: yeah old Enco was nice
11:11 PM roycroft: then they lied to me and told me that the price did not go up
11:11 PM roycroft: even as i sat there looking at recent enco invoices
11:11 PM `Wolf: https://www.travers.com/tl1440-1-gear-hd-bench-lathe-jet/p/87-115-420/ https://i.imgur.com/HlfgazG.jpg
11:11 PM roycroft: i ended up telling them to fuck off and stop calling me and emailing me
11:11 PM `Wolf: pretty close
11:12 PM pfred1: yeah MSC are aholes
11:12 PM roycroft: mine is not a gear head
11:12 PM pfred1: that's why they're still in business they're giving everyone the business
11:12 PM roycroft: they never came out and said it
11:13 PM roycroft: but essentially they let me know that if i spend thousands of dollars/month with them i'll get the same prices i got at enco
11:13 PM pfred1: how generous of them
11:13 PM roycroft: that wilton definitely looks like an enco lathe i've seen
11:13 PM pfred1: the mo money plan
11:14 PM roycroft: it sucks
11:14 PM roycroft: because the only local tooling place has a "we sell crappy product from china and if it is broken/defective we won't take it back" policy
11:14 PM `Wolf: yeah, someone listed one on facebook and I got some pics from him of the feed speed chart that mine is missing, same gear set for the thread/feed box
11:15 PM roycroft: every time i've had a problem they've said to me, in almost as many words "you did not buy tooling from use. you bought some shite from china from us, and that's what you got"
11:15 PM roycroft: they don't sell "real" tooling
11:15 PM roycroft: they only sell the crap
11:15 PM roycroft: so i can't use them at all
11:16 PM roycroft: i wouldn't even mind so much if 9 out of 10 of their products was defective
11:16 PM pfred1: I like my crappy chinese tooling
11:16 PM roycroft: if i could buy 10 of them, and return the 9 defective ones
11:16 PM pfred1: I buy it directly from china though
11:17 PM `Wolf: I get cutters from maratool or kbc now
11:17 PM roycroft: not all chinese tooling is crappy
11:17 PM pfred1: yeah i like it
11:17 PM `Wolf: and Shars...
11:17 PM roycroft: it's not the origin of the tooling with which i take issue
11:17 PM roycroft: it's the vendor's refusing to accept any returns, for any reason
11:18 PM `Wolf: if you follow any of the youtube machinists you’ll notice they never mention MSC
11:19 PM roycroft: so i have no local source of tooling
11:19 PM roycroft: enco shipped out of reno
11:19 PM roycroft: i usually got stuff from them the next day
11:19 PM roycroft: two days at most
11:19 PM pfred1: there's nothing local to me here
11:19 PM pfred1: the downside to living out in the sticks
11:19 PM `Wolf: mcmaster is my next day source here
11:19 PM roycroft: mcmaster are a week away
11:19 PM roycroft: and expensive
11:19 PM roycroft: but reliable
11:20 PM pfred1: there's nothing i can't afford to wait for
11:20 PM roycroft: and they will take anything back, no questions asked, and no restocking fees
11:20 PM pfred1: I just ordered some soldering tips and they emailed me said it waso n backorder I was like no problem
11:20 PM `Wolf: check out https://www.kbctools.com/content.aspx?file=customerpages/locations.htm roycroft
11:20 PM roycroft: i'm usually pretty good at ordering far enough ahead of time that i don't have to stress over shipping time
11:20 PM roycroft: sometimes that does not work out though
11:20 PM pfred1: heck I've needed them tips for years s oa couple more weeks don't matter
11:21 PM roycroft: i've bought from kbc before
11:21 PM `Wolf: I need to order some stuff, I haven’t tried them yet but have heard good things
11:21 PM roycroft: my impression of them is that their quality is not quite as good on average as enco were, and their prices a little higher
11:21 PM `Wolf: and nothing bad yet
11:21 PM roycroft: but they're pretty decent
11:21 PM pfred1: well everything costs more now
11:22 PM roycroft: certainly way below msc price
11:22 PM `Wolf: its not MSC at least lol
11:22 PM pfred1: I use MSC catalogs to clean stuff on
11:22 PM roycroft: yeah, grizzly just added a 20% "tariff surcharge" to their stuff from mainland china
11:22 PM pfred1: so they're handy that way
11:22 PM roycroft: it's going on every item, as new shipments arrive
11:23 PM `Wolf: do they even sell anything not made in china ?
11:23 PM roycroft: yes, they sell heaps of stuff from taiwan, and also a lot of japanese and european stuff
11:23 PM pfred1: I wonder if horrible fright will tariff?
11:23 PM pfred1: isn't taiwan china?
11:23 PM roycroft: they'll probably just stop giving out 20% off coupons
11:23 PM roycroft: no
11:24 PM roycroft: taiwan is the republic of china
11:24 PM pfred1: oh that's hong kong
11:24 PM roycroft: mainland china is the people's repbublic of china
11:24 PM pfred1: yeah but taiwan belongs to china
11:24 PM roycroft: hong kong used to be a british colony, and is now part of the prc
11:24 PM `Wolf: lol I was about to say that, horrible freight will just have to start selling at the normal prices
11:24 PM pfred1: or at least china seems ot think so
11:24 PM roycroft: so claim mainland china
11:25 PM pfred1: there was a 100 year lease but that's run out
11:25 PM roycroft: what's important right now is that for trade purposes, the united states distinguishes between the prc and the roc
11:25 PM roycroft: and the current tariffs are only on products from the prc
11:25 PM roycroft: i'm not sure there's even much of a steel industry in the roc
11:26 PM pfred1: taiwan is number 11 on the chart
11:27 PM pfred1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_steel_production
11:28 PM `Wolf: wow japan has more steel production then USA…
11:28 PM `Wolf: thats kinda sad
11:28 PM pfred1: that's why we're establishing tariffs
11:29 PM pfred1: can't be a first world country and not produce steel
11:29 PM * roycroft is going to stay out of the politics of the trade wars tonight
11:30 PM roycroft: i'm just pointing out examples of how it is affecting prices in the us
11:30 PM pfred1: freedom is not free
11:31 PM * roycroft refers phred1 to the comments he made some moments ago
11:38 PM hazzy-lab: Some how or other we need to get the massive trade deficit with china back in line. The Chinese subsidize so much stuff I don't know what options we really have but to impose tariffs. I am normally very anti tariff, but in this situation it's probably the right thing.
11:38 PM pfred1: we have to fight corruption with corruption
11:39 PM hazzy-lab: we have to fight it somehow :)
11:40 PM pfred1: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/07/11/ex-apple-engineer-arrested-on-his-way-to-china-charged-with-stealing-companys-autonomous-car-secrets/?utm_term=.8ba4497980c9
11:41 PM hazzy-lab: That sort of thing has been going on for a LONG time, its a shame
11:41 PM pfred1: why pay for R&D that you can just steal?
11:41 PM hazzy-lab: right!
11:42 PM hazzy-lab: And it makes people less likely to innovate if its just going to be stolen
11:44 PM pfred1: we are not going gentle into that good night