#linuxcnc Logs

Jul 09 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:01 AM `Wolf: https://www.sorotec.de/shop/Tool-change-adapters-65mm-spindle.html perfect for a micro VMC build lol
12:05 AM XXCoder: I read it as 820,000 bucks lol
12:05 AM `Wolf: lol
12:05 AM XXCoder: annoying with . and , standards
12:05 AM `Wolf: yeah
12:05 AM XXCoder: you EU people should port over to . for decimals and , for break
12:05 AM XXCoder: ;)
12:05 AM * `Wolf isn’t in the EU
12:05 AM XXCoder: lol assumed that from DE country link you linked
12:05 AM `Wolf: i’m 30 min outside of Washington DC lol
12:05 AM `Wolf: was just watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSU6Z_2biDI saw the tool changer on his 24k spindle and thought about a conversation from last night lol
12:05 AM XXCoder: thats pretty small mill
12:06 AM `Wolf: like I said, micro VMC or something of the sort lol
12:06 AM XXCoder: two of his 123 blocks is in rough shape lol
12:06 AM `Wolf: even horizontal setup
12:08 AM `Wolf: *rewatches
12:08 AM `Wolf: I was fussing around with some stuff and missed that lol
12:09 AM `Wolf: I think those blocks are diy
12:09 AM `Wolf: probably hardened but not ground yet
12:09 AM XXCoder: hmm maybe
12:10 AM `Wolf: said he had been working on them for a few years
12:14 AM pink_vampire: `Wolf: in what sec?
12:14 AM `Wolf: eh?
12:14 AM pink_vampire: where do you see the tool changer?
12:14 AM `Wolf: he shows the puller unit and mentions building a tool holder rack
12:14 AM `Wolf: at some point
12:16 AM `Wolf: add on
12:16 AM `Wolf: I linked it
12:16 AM `Wolf: https://www.sorotec.de/shop/Tool-change-adapters-65mm-spindle.html
12:17 AM pink_vampire: is there something like that that go on ER 11?
12:17 AM `Wolf: no idea, I was going WTF when I saw it
12:18 AM pink_vampire: https://www.sorotec.de/shop/HF-Motorspindle-6508-air-cooled-0-8kW.html?language=en
12:18 AM pink_vampire: this is the spindle?
12:18 AM `Wolf: I think is
12:19 AM `Wolf: the links are in the video description
12:19 AM pink_vampire: 0.8Kw??
12:20 AM `Wolf: yeah thats over 1hp… i think
12:20 AM pink_vampire: I'm with one 2 times more power, and i cant force it in to the material without good coolant.
12:21 AM `Wolf: german watts vs china watts?
12:21 AM `Wolf: idk
12:21 AM pink_vampire: `Wolf: it is 1hp *only* in max rpm. the torque on low speed is very low.
12:21 AM `Wolf: actually its 0.8Kw peak at 6,000rpm
12:22 AM `Wolf: goes down to just above 0.7Kw @ 24000
12:22 AM pink_vampire: I love my spindle, the hf is a game changer.
12:23 AM `Wolf: http://www.sorotec.de/webshop/Datenblaetter/Mechatron/HFS6508AC/HFS-6508AC-Datasheet.pdf
12:23 AM pink_vampire: but only if you are using very small endmills
12:23 AM `Wolf: yeah, HF shines with smaller sizes
12:25 AM `Wolf: this figures, I want to make a bracket from 7075 but all I have is round stock =/
12:25 AM pink_vampire: if you can push your original spindle to about 6000 rpm, it will be much better then whatever hf.
12:25 AM `Wolf: I don’t have any machines like that
12:26 AM `Wolf: just big semi chunky knee mill with max of 3180rpm
12:26 AM pink_vampire: i'm talking normal endmills, for stuff smaller then 1/8" sure go hf,
12:28 AM pink_vampire: but i think the 2.2K or 3K china made ones is a good spindle replacement, the 0.8K is only good as aux spindle.
12:28 AM * `Wolf honestly knows nothing about high speed spindles
12:29 AM pink_vampire: and it is not a big fun to go between spindles to do one job. keep that in mind.
12:29 AM `Wolf: I do know that I want to replace the motors on my mill and lathe with brushless servos tho
12:30 AM `Wolf: I keep milling stuff at wrong spindle speeds because I don’t feel like messing with the belt
12:32 AM pink_vampire: I think at the end of the day, if you need prismatic parts with good finish on them, you must use the whole endmill flute length, and that mean torque, but for organic shape, or none critical diminutions parts, yeah, the HF will do the trick.
12:35 AM pink_vampire: `Wolf: you need to calculate your feed based on the spindle speed and your chip load. if you go the other way around you will melt your tools without very good coolant.
12:35 AM `Wolf: right now I just make ugly parts for my own stuff
12:36 AM `Wolf: yeah, thats what I usually do, run feeds and speeds calc w/ set spindle speed
12:36 AM pink_vampire: i'm sure 100% it is not related to your spindle speed.
12:37 AM pink_vampire: if you are getting ugly cut, with the hf, it is going to be just worse, more rpm = more vibrations = more heat = poor finish.
12:38 AM `Wolf: https://imgur.com/VMxwjtc
12:38 AM `Wolf: no hf here
12:38 AM `Wolf: https://imgur.com/IlB9w2k the round part was last nights project
12:40 AM pink_vampire: the cuts look good to me, you can add a radius to your fly cutter and get even better finish, but other than that, just use larger fly cutter and face the whole plate in one pass.
12:41 AM `Wolf: the mini pallet plate is saunders machine works
12:41 AM pink_vampire: did you pay for it?
12:41 AM `Wolf: yeah
12:41 AM pink_vampire: lol
12:41 AM pink_vampire: why
12:41 AM `Wolf: he sells them for $89
12:41 AM pink_vampire: O_O
12:42 AM `Wolf: because my pos micro mill cnc I wouldn’t trust to make 150 holes that all line up
12:42 AM pink_vampire: just made one.
12:43 AM pink_vampire: who care if they lined up, it is a thread for a bolt.
12:43 AM `Wolf: really not bad price for that many holes, all threaded and reamed for dowel pins
12:43 AM `Wolf: they are 1/2 depth reamed for 1/4”, bottom 1/2” threaded
12:44 AM pink_vampire: i just made one myself
12:44 AM pink_vampire: + mini clamps.
12:44 AM `Wolf: i’ll be making my own clamps
12:45 AM `Wolf: also going to make a couple round pallets for the rotary table and lathe
12:46 AM pink_vampire: i did mine with 10-32 screws.
12:46 AM `Wolf: but the 6”x8” plate, the cost for same size stock off eBay was $35 so just ordering it made no big deal
12:47 AM pink_vampire: I'm uploading some pictures
12:48 AM `Wolf: https://imgur.com/mKy8skB you can see the dowel pins
12:49 AM pink_vampire: i'm just use it in the vice, and the vice jaw is my straight edge
12:50 AM `Wolf: yup that works
12:50 AM `Wolf: I have a few things I want to make with odd geometry so this makes that easy
12:52 AM pink_vampire: just rotate your coordinate system parallel to your vise jaw
12:52 AM `Wolf: manual mill
12:52 AM `Wolf: no 2.5D milling =)
12:52 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/QH1o61k.jpg
12:53 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/aVoOdmy.jpg
12:53 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/MbKwQYL.jpg
12:54 AM `Wolf: looks good
12:55 AM `Wolf: if I ever bother to finish the X2 cnc, I’ll make a pallet for that thing
12:56 AM pink_vampire: did you saw the sine plate?
12:56 AM `Wolf: no
12:57 AM pink_vampire: i will make an album, one sec.
01:24 AM IchGucksLive: morning from germay
01:24 AM IchGucksLive: sun is up in full force
01:25 AM IchGucksLive: expecting 30+ degC today
01:30 AM IchGucksLive: off 2 garden
01:59 AM Deejay: moin
02:05 AM `Wolf: morning
02:15 AM pink_vampire: `Wolf: https://imgur.com/a/6DZBwTE
02:17 AM norias: hi pink_vampire
02:18 AM pink_vampire: hi norias
02:18 AM `Wolf: nice work
02:19 AM norias: oh, i see what you did
02:19 AM norias: clever
02:20 AM pink_vampire: did you read the comments about the HF spindle?
02:20 AM `Wolf: pink_vampire: I would show a pic of my lathe but I’m sure you’ll give me hell for the mess around it lol
02:21 AM pink_vampire: my lathe is a MESSS right now
02:21 AM XXCoder: oh yeah! hows new lathe so far??
02:21 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: AMAZING!
02:21 AM XXCoder: last I heard you just completed rebuild
02:21 AM XXCoder: nice :)
02:22 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: look here https://imgur.com/a/6DZBwTE
02:23 AM `Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/BTgk971.jpg I need to build a new base for the table and move the lathe 2” towards the front so I can put a chip shield behind it
02:24 AM XXCoder: you have a sine plate. nice
02:24 AM XXCoder: such a handy thing to have eh
02:24 AM pink_vampire: i have also a sine bar.
02:24 AM `Wolf: also need to make a bracket for the tail stock drop
02:24 AM `Wolf: drop/DRO
02:25 AM XXCoder: funny thats exactly same part (but different sizes) I had to remove and flip around to fix my indictor arm
02:25 AM XXCoder: very nice
02:25 AM XXCoder: love your series of pictures
02:25 AM pink_vampire: `Wolf: look better then my lathe right now
02:26 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: thanks
02:26 AM XXCoder: both of yours is betetr than mine. my router is still in closet :( simply no room
02:27 AM `Wolf: I’m slowly finding room for everything
02:27 AM `Wolf: I still have tooling sitting in the other room
02:27 AM XXCoder: if I get rid of some junk, I MIGHT be able to fit cnc router in closer in such way it can run lol
02:27 AM pink_vampire: just get rid of the bed / tv
02:27 AM XXCoder: but doubtful
02:27 AM XXCoder: I dont own any tv
02:28 AM `Wolf: also still have parts to make so I can use everything with the lathe lol
02:28 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: just put it in a drawer
02:28 AM `Wolf: need to make a tool post nut so I can use my tool post grinder
02:29 AM `Wolf: and need to make something for all the tailstock stuff before they roll off the table
02:29 AM XXCoder: even my router may be small but dang thats one big drawer if it could fit it lol
02:29 AM pink_vampire: I have a T slot table on the late, so maybe..
02:31 AM * `Wolf has too much tooling (not really)
02:31 AM `Wolf: one drawer of just C5 collets…
02:31 AM pink_vampire: 5c collets are nice,
02:32 AM `Wolf: need to cut this out, I wish I had a higher wattage laser https://i.imgur.com/bqIP0N2.png?1
02:32 AM pink_vampire: my lathe take L20, those are 50$ each (if you can find one)
02:33 AM pink_vampire: is that a holder for gauge pins?
02:33 AM `Wolf: and that still leaves 2 boxes of larger emergency collets
02:33 AM `Wolf: thats for my C5 collets
02:33 AM `Wolf: fills almost a full drawer of the kennedy box
02:34 AM pink_vampire: i have just 4 :-(
02:35 AM `Wolf: Im usually only using c5 on the lathe, this is a rare moment that the chuck is in it
02:36 AM pink_vampire: but i'm using 4 jaw independent, 99% of the time,
02:38 AM `Wolf: I have two 3 jaws, a 4 jaw and a 3 jaw buck chuck that needs a backplate
02:38 AM pink_vampire: maybe i need to get a square 5c collet block and use that in the chuck. I'm sure it will be much cheaper then a set of L20
02:38 AM `Wolf: could work
02:39 AM `Wolf: may be able to put a c5 closer on it
02:39 AM `Wolf: whats the spindle mount on that thing?
02:39 AM pink_vampire: what do you mean?
02:40 AM `Wolf: how does your chuck mount
02:40 AM pink_vampire: on a thread
02:41 AM pink_vampire: you just screw it on and then use some compression ring on it.
02:42 AM `Wolf: http://www.shars.com/products/workholding/lathe-chucks/5-5c-collet-chuck + a backing plate w/ the thread for your lathe spinde nose then
02:43 AM `Wolf: block is cheaper though lol
02:43 AM pink_vampire: that is not a bad idea at all.
02:43 AM pink_vampire: and I have an extra back plate.
02:44 AM pink_vampire: but I think it is 4"
02:45 AM pink_vampire: actually I want the 8mm collets, over the C5 they soo cute.
02:45 AM `Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/Ob9t97W.jpg are cheap
02:45 AM pink_vampire: no, i was wrong, it is 5"
02:47 AM `Wolf: fugues I have 2 hex… which doesn’t help you much
02:47 AM `Wolf: figures*
02:49 AM pink_vampire: I will go with 5c only if I will find a alot of them cheap, because a set can go to 300$..
02:50 AM `Wolf: yup
02:50 AM * `Wolf got lucky
02:51 AM pink_vampire: and for most stuff you can just bore some aluminum and cut a slot with the HF and you are good to go
02:55 AM `Wolf: true, just make your own bushings
02:56 AM `Wolf: C5 w/ collet closer shines when you’re making more then one piece
02:57 AM pink_vampire: true..
03:10 AM `Wolf: always figures, whatever size stock I need, I have 1/2” smaller
03:14 AM pink_vampire: I have only 1" brass and few 3/8" brass, and i think 3/4" steel from lowes (junk)
03:15 AM `Wolf: i needed a 84mm round, have 76mm/3”
03:15 AM pink_vampire: so you must go 4"?
03:16 AM `Wolf: 3.5”
03:16 AM pink_vampire: cool
03:16 AM `Wolf: I’ll just order a chunk from eBay
03:17 AM pink_vampire: you mean for the back plate
03:17 AM `Wolf: no this is for something else
03:17 AM `Wolf: I have like 5 projects in the works at one time lol
03:18 AM pink_vampire: me too
03:18 AM pink_vampire: never finish any LOL
03:18 AM `Wolf: lol
03:18 AM `Wolf: I was looking at my x2, I really want to get it running so I can cnc parts with it
03:19 AM pink_vampire: what is the issues that you have?
03:19 AM `Wolf: that its all in pieces
03:19 AM `Wolf: I ordered it as loose parts from little machine shop
03:20 AM pink_vampire: you mean the conversion kit?
03:20 AM `Wolf: no the whole mill
03:21 AM `Wolf: bare column, head casting, spindle housing, micro mill extended travel base kit x/y
03:23 AM pink_vampire: what so special about it?
03:23 AM `Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/OYrul3t.jpg
03:24 AM `Wolf: which I just pulled it alll apart again
03:24 AM pink_vampire: but why??
03:25 AM `Wolf: need to clean up the ball nut mounting, stepper mounts, drill and tap a bunch of holes in it
03:26 AM _abc_: Hi. Can anyone please recommend a simple desk edge vise / vice 2-3in size, low cost (<50EUR), and precise enough for finer manual work?
03:26 AM _abc_: This is for occasional use, no need to go overkill.
03:26 AM pink_vampire: `Wolf: just do it..
03:26 AM `Wolf: thats the plan pink =)
03:27 AM `Wolf: it is funny seeing it next to this knee mill, my vise is the same size as the whole table on the x2
03:27 AM _abc_: I'll lurk for answers, thanks.
03:28 AM `Wolf: best bet is to check eBay or amazon or who ever sells tools around you imo
03:28 AM pink_vampire: _abc_: I LOVE the small emco that i have. find something used on ebay, take it a part, clean it, and re assemble. and it ill be amazing,
03:29 AM _abc_: Emco is a recognized name yes.
03:29 AM _abc_: How much should I pay for it?
03:30 AM pink_vampire: _abc_: https://imgur.com/a/6DZBwTE scroll here down. you will see them.
03:30 AM _abc_: A ball swivel vise would be nice but it has to be solid. I seldomly do anything thicker than 5-8mm
03:30 AM `Wolf: I would say panavise but thats going to blow out that 50EUR figure
03:30 AM pink_vampire: _abc_: I save them from going to the trash, they was look hopeless.
03:31 AM `Wolf: unless you find one on eBay used
03:31 AM _abc_: You mean the machinist's vise on your mill/lathe?
03:31 AM pink_vampire: yes
03:31 AM _abc_: Used is good, I am just fed up with crap which is un-fixable even with major rebuild.
03:32 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/RmXVil9.jpg
03:32 AM pink_vampire: those
03:33 AM _abc_: https://www.amazon.com/Panavise-301-PanaVise-Standard/dp/B0002BC1AY this looks okayish but upper end of price scale.
03:33 AM _abc_: I assume knockoffs are not good, right?
03:33 AM `Wolf: _abc_: something like https://i.imgur.com/ibRduNA.jpg
03:33 AM pink_vampire: _abc_: you want to do machining on that O_O
03:33 AM `Wolf: pink he said desk vise =)
03:34 AM XXCoder: that picture is very visually confusing. lol
03:34 AM pink_vampire: okkk
03:34 AM XXCoder: took me bit to see that screw isnt parallel with base lol
03:34 AM `Wolf: lol ya lot of crap on that bench
03:34 AM XXCoder: screw looks like its been threaded on other side of U
03:35 AM XXCoder: which makes left and right disagree visually lol
03:35 AM `Wolf: its centered down the U
03:35 AM pink_vampire: I got mine from HF for 19$ or so..
03:35 AM pink_vampire: work fine as bench vise.
03:35 AM `Wolf: I got that beast of a thing because I do circuit board repair
03:35 AM XXCoder: `Wolf: if you took picture at slightly different angle it would be even worse illusion lol
03:36 AM `Wolf: probably XXCoder
03:37 AM `Wolf: panavise are really good IMO
03:37 AM pink_vampire: https://www.harborfreight.com/4-in-swivel-vise-with-anvil-63330.html
03:37 AM pink_vampire: I got them wayyy cheaper.
03:39 AM `Wolf: I would call that a work bench vise, work ok unless you’re really wrenching on something, would end up broke in my shop
03:39 AM `Wolf: then again most things break when you put over 500 ft/lbs to them
03:41 AM pink_vampire: I had to remove the spring so i will be able to move the handle freely..
03:42 AM `Wolf: I have one of these styles http://a.co/1oiSFTB broke the nut off inside of it
03:43 AM pink_vampire: for 299 you can get a real vice. not a bench ones.
03:45 AM `Wolf: it was a real vise…
03:46 AM pink_vampire: i mean machinist vice.
03:46 AM `Wolf: oh, $300 will almost get a nice machine vise
03:48 AM pink_vampire: I'm using the bench type for stuff that will abuse the nice machine vise, like hammering, use the torch, bending, and stuff like that.
03:49 AM pink_vampire: and since i have a small emco. I never use the large machining vice,
03:49 AM `Wolf: true, I won’t do anything that will mess up the machine vise on my mill
03:49 AM `Wolf: that damn thing cost too much to screw up
03:51 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
03:51 AM pink_vampire: the only time I'm using the machine vise not for machining is to press stuff. because they go to 10K lbs,
03:51 AM pink_vampire: hi IchGucksLive
03:52 AM IchGucksLive: hydraulik chucks
03:53 AM IchGucksLive: good use for bending steel also
03:54 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/hPbGAcK.jpg
03:54 AM RyanS: those modular vices cost a fortune
03:54 AM pink_vampire: extracting a Jacob taper that was really on it.
03:55 AM IchGucksLive: some head
03:55 AM IchGucksLive: heat
03:56 AM IchGucksLive: i use ice cooler for the tap and a flame solder for the chuck and it workes perfect
03:56 AM pink_vampire: IchGucksLive: what do you mean?
03:56 AM IchGucksLive: to get it apart
03:57 AM `Wolf: stick the taper in ice, heat the chuck with a torch
03:58 AM `Wolf: other way is to use taper U wedges like you are suppose to to pop it apart
03:58 AM IchGucksLive: you need to firat ice the taper for a while only the cone
03:58 AM IchGucksLive: thats the cone spare for
03:59 AM pink_vampire: it was 5 sec, with the impact wrench
03:59 AM IchGucksLive: it also shoudt have a 10mm spare to the chuck itsefl
04:00 AM pink_vampire: the pictue is after the taper come out.
04:00 AM `Wolf: that doesn’t work with a albrecht
04:00 AM IchGucksLive: so a wedge driver goes in
04:00 AM `Wolf: need http://a.co/3fO4MVT
04:00 AM pink_vampire: `Wolf: how that work?
04:00 AM IchGucksLive: lots of good idees are on that
04:01 AM `Wolf: the albrecht doesn’t have a hole in it
04:01 AM IchGucksLive: im off
04:02 AM pink_vampire: `Wolf: I took the taper off to find out the size.
04:03 AM `Wolf: should have been on the chuck
04:05 AM `Wolf: its also stamped on the MT to jacobs taper shank
04:05 AM pink_vampire: the same model came with several sizes of tapers.
04:06 AM pink_vampire: i wanted to use that on the mill, but it wasn't the right size.
04:08 AM `Wolf: I love the albrecht chucks that came w/ the machines I got, but on the mill sometimes it feels like its a foot long
04:09 AM pink_vampire: i love small chucks or using a collet
04:10 AM `Wolf: yep, lot of times i use my er32 collets (because I have a full set of them)
04:10 AM `Wolf: I need to break down and get a er16 set
04:11 AM pink_vampire: with the HF is a problem. because the largest shank is 1/4" or 6mm..
04:11 AM pink_vampire: if you need to drill holes it is just not fun,
04:12 AM pink_vampire: it force you to use 1/8" shank drills
04:12 AM `Wolf: ugh, that sounds annoying
04:13 AM `Wolf: problem I run in to with my stuff is the er32 and monster 1/2” drill chuck won’t fit where I need to drill
04:13 AM pink_vampire: you want to use your 1/2" tap guide.. opss not gonna happen
04:14 AM `Wolf: and the 5000 drill bits I have are all screw machine size
04:15 AM pink_vampire: if you know about a drill chuck that will work at 20K rpm without expending, that will be nice.
04:18 AM `Wolf: at that speed, I would stick with collets lol
04:18 AM pink_vampire: the spindle can go 3 times faster..
04:19 AM pink_vampire: and then the chuck .....
04:20 AM pink_vampire: there is 2 problems.
04:20 AM pink_vampire: cnc NEVER cut round holes.
04:21 AM `Wolf: sure it will
04:21 AM `Wolf: if you use a boring bar
04:22 AM pink_vampire: er11 collets for letter size drill bits and numbers drill just not gonna happen in normal price.
04:22 AM pink_vampire: `Wolf: boring number 11 drill?
04:23 AM `Wolf: actually, er11 will hold a size range not just what its listed as
04:23 AM pink_vampire: do you want to test it in 60K?
04:24 AM pink_vampire: if it vibrate, this is the end of your spindle taper. and you must re grind it.
04:28 AM `Wolf: http://content.penturners.org/library/general_reference/er32_collet_dims.pdf example, but all ER collets actually have a clamping range
04:29 AM `Wolf: so right now I use the ER32 for anything odd sized, because I have a full set in 1/32” steps
04:30 AM norias: hmmm... er32
04:30 AM pink_vampire: i know they have range, but it is not optimal.
04:30 AM norias: did you ever try the ball bearing collet nuts, Wolf?
04:30 AM `Wolf: nope
04:30 AM norias: i recommend them
04:31 AM `Wolf: I’ll have to check it out then
04:31 AM pink_vampire: norias: what it "bearing collet nuts"??
04:31 AM norias: i set up a machine with those and one of the torque wrenches to get consistent torque
04:31 AM norias: it was the bees knees
04:31 AM norias: pink_vampire: i'll find a link
04:31 AM pink_vampire: thanks
04:32 AM `Wolf: I was using the hell out of the ER32 with my 7xJunk lathe with the ER32 adapter mounted to it
04:32 AM norias: http://www.shars.com/er-32-ball-bearing-collet-nut
04:33 AM `Wolf: my 12x37 has a C5 closer and a full set of collets to now I rarely touch the er32
04:33 AM norias: basically, the ball bearing collet nuts claim less pullout
04:33 AM norias: which, from my experiments, seems to be true
04:33 AM norias: slightly better runout, too
04:33 AM norias: new collets + ball bearing collet nuts + torque wrench
04:33 AM norias: made a lot of difference
04:34 AM norias: that was on a Haas VF-3
04:34 AM `Wolf: I won’t notice it on my machine but thx for the heads up =)
04:34 AM pink_vampire: LOL VF3
04:34 AM `Wolf: knee mill maxes out at 3100
04:35 AM pink_vampire: norias: we have mills, not VMCs
04:35 AM norias: what's wrong with a VF-3?
04:36 AM pink_vampire: the price tag.
04:36 AM norias: lol
04:36 AM pink_vampire: and the fact I can't put in my apartment.
04:36 AM norias: i guess if that's the worst you can say about them
04:36 AM norias: but that was why i mentioned it
04:36 AM norias: i recognize that's not what everyone is working with here
04:37 AM norias: so my suggestions might not be useful
04:37 AM pink_vampire: here we "hope" to make parts.
04:37 AM `Wolf: go figure they stop at ER16 for the ball bearing nuts
04:37 AM norias: right on
04:38 AM `Wolf: so no help for the ER11 spindle units
04:38 AM norias: ahh, ok
04:38 AM norias: i'd imagine though, that the advantanges don't help you on er11 stuff
04:38 AM norias: better off just replacing collets on a regular basis
04:39 AM norias: i consider collets to be consumables
04:39 AM pink_vampire: we are using the cutting edge technology of 1960
04:39 AM `Wolf: 24000rpm on them ER11 spindles
04:39 AM `Wolf: would probably help some
04:41 AM `Wolf: just need the SK10 ATC for them spindles lol
04:42 AM pink_vampire: `Wolf: you are going to have bout 1 tau runout, and don't ecpect better then that on the cheap spindles and collets. but no one care, it dust the material much faster then you think
04:43 AM norias: hmmm
04:43 AM pink_vampire: so yeah, it will cost you more endmills, but the run time will be 10-20 times faster.
04:43 AM `Wolf: yeah, runout just wears the tools faster
04:43 AM norias: runout does other things too
04:43 AM norias: especially with small endmills
04:44 AM `Wolf: true, I forget about that
04:44 AM `Wolf: most stuff I do small is under 3/16” lol
04:44 AM pink_vampire: but on 60K the endmill also flex.
04:44 AM norias: i'm constantly reminded
04:45 AM norias: keep in mind your chip thickness is effected by runout
04:45 AM norias: affected
04:45 AM `Wolf: were we talking about mini horizontal desktop machine the other night?
04:45 AM norias: the smaller the end mill, the less chip thickness, the greater percentage of the affect
04:45 AM norias: we were
04:46 AM `Wolf: https://www.sorotec.de/shop/Tool-change-adapters-65mm-spindle.html https://www.sorotec.de/shop/Toolholder-SK10---ER16-for-Mechatron.html
04:46 AM `Wolf: can give it tool changer like a real sized one lol
04:46 AM norias: yeah, i've been looking at a few spindles
04:47 AM norias: i actually think i can up with a cool way to do tool changes, tbh
04:47 AM pink_vampire: norias: true, and i'm using mostly 1/8" 1/16" 1/32" and I'm taking full slotting pass with all the and mills.
04:47 AM norias: pink_vampire: yeah, well, full slotting not so much of a runout problem in that regard
04:48 AM pink_vampire: the main problem it coolant
04:48 AM norias: what are you cuttin?
04:48 AM pink_vampire: steel just self ignite
04:48 AM `Wolf: I just have visions of a desk top cnc the size of a large microwave with the wheel full of mini tooling like the hass machines have
04:48 AM pink_vampire: any material
04:49 AM norias: wolf: see, i don't like the haas tool changer at that size of machine
04:49 AM norias: too many moving parts / space consumption
04:49 AM `Wolf: yeah very true
04:49 AM `Wolf: the chain magazine systems look better, kinda
04:49 AM pink_vampire: `Wolf: you don't need a ATC with er11
04:50 AM norias: i was actually thinking something like the shopbot
04:50 AM norias: just vertically oriented
04:50 AM XXCoder: norias: lol work has 2 office mills. its so tiny it could fit in my closet. it has tool changer
04:50 AM pink_vampire: you are going to use metric drills, and tools with 1/8" shank ALL THE TIME
04:50 AM norias: XXCoder: the haas office mill?
04:50 AM XXCoder: 14 tools I think, and its size of dinner plate around cyyler
04:50 AM XXCoder: yeah
04:51 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: you meant to the CM1?
04:51 AM `Wolf: what does the shopbot use? pick and place type holder?
04:51 AM norias: well, i'm thinking about designing / building a machine
04:51 AM norias: so i want to reduce part count / complexity
04:51 AM norias: Wolf: yes
04:52 AM pink_vampire: `Wolf: no way you need ATC on the X2
04:52 AM pink_vampire: waste of money.
04:52 AM XXCoder: norias: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE89Og6gnO4
04:52 AM `Wolf: if I do one its going to be a pick and place with the TTS junk
04:52 AM XXCoder: welcome to world of shitty machine
04:53 AM pink_vampire: it take 1 sec to replace the tool, if you stick to 1/8" collet anyway,
04:53 AM XXCoder: if you look at it wrong, it breaks something
04:53 AM norias: pink_vampire: the whole thing i want to do is experiment with lights out machining
04:53 AM norias: tool changer is definitely a requirements
04:54 AM `Wolf: and the X2 will be using normal sized endmills, I can run anything up to 3/4 inch
04:54 AM XXCoder: only postive I can say about haas om2 is insane rpm. very nice cuts when something isnt broken and messing cut up
04:54 AM `Wolf: un-attended tool change is good
04:54 AM norias: i feel like the machine can be crappy
04:54 AM `Wolf: needed if the cycle time is slow even IMO
04:54 AM norias: as long as it tool changes and _maybe_ has a pallet changer
04:55 AM `Wolf: so you don’t need to stand there and wait for tool change
04:55 AM XXCoder: really depends on usercase wolf. haas om works fine for rare use or at home
04:55 AM XXCoder: for production forget it
04:55 AM norias: but in reality, i'm like a year out from buying a machine
04:55 AM norias: i think
04:55 AM norias: i probably have a lot of software crap to do first
04:55 AM pink_vampire: `Wolf: you need to make 20 parts in one shot. and then replace the tool.
04:56 AM `Wolf: I’ll probably skip the ATC, still putting air piston for the drawbar release tho
04:56 AM XXCoder: pink more times part is placed and removed on fixture higher chance there is scrap
04:57 AM XXCoder: and some features should be made at same placement as some other features of part
04:57 AM XXCoder: lower chance of misalignment
04:57 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: i mean to make a setup for alot of parts, and cut all of them.
04:57 AM `Wolf: ^ I try to aim for minimum setups when doing anything
04:58 AM norias: Wolf: my goal is always two in a mill
04:58 AM norias: do one side, flip, done
04:58 AM `Wolf: yup
04:58 AM norias: i dig carrier machining
04:58 AM `Wolf: cut soft jaws and a machine that can repeat = golden
04:59 AM norias: or a nice fixture
04:59 AM XXCoder: wolf record at work is hmm 10 setups I think. had to be done that way because roughing, bake, one side lathe, other side lathe, milling, 3 sides (3 rotations of part) then go off to paint, come back and lathe both sides, then finally 2 final mill jobs
04:59 AM XXCoder: then its finally packed and sent off
04:59 AM `Wolf: ugh sounds like a pain in the ass
04:59 AM XXCoder: that part is huge huge huge pain in ass. it takes months. good thing I never run those.
04:59 AM `Wolf: lol
04:59 AM pink_vampire: norias: https://i.imgur.com/nhoAbXq.png https://i.imgur.com/tJb46SW.png https://i.imgur.com/cZfi95Q.png
05:00 AM XXCoder: its 200 parts also lol
05:00 AM norias: pink_vampire: what is this?
05:01 AM XXCoder: probe thing
05:01 AM pink_vampire: the I don't care what is the tool length, the cnc will find it.
05:01 AM XXCoder: is that tool length probe?
05:02 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/d6E1pkb.jpg
05:02 AM pink_vampire: correct.
05:02 AM XXCoder: oh yeah! forgot I saw that completed project
05:02 AM `Wolf: I’m thinking about doing a laser tool setter
05:02 AM norias: hah. cool.
05:02 AM XXCoder: `Wolf: theres one that does laser for "rough measurement" then touchoff
05:02 AM XXCoder: I think I linked you that before
05:02 AM `Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/AelWIDc.jpg
05:03 AM `Wolf: yeah
05:03 AM pink_vampire: `Wolf: 2 spindles electronic datum..
05:03 AM XXCoder: the demo is scary as hell at end lol
05:03 AM XXCoder: rapid stright to very top of jaws
05:03 AM norias: i was playing with using tool probes to do "broken tool" detection
05:03 AM norias: lasers can be good for that, too
05:03 AM XXCoder: norias: its seriously wonderous to have that.
05:03 AM `Wolf: yup and cheap on eBay cause no one know what to do with them lol
05:03 AM norias: XXCoder: yeah, i dig it.
05:04 AM `Wolf: I think i have <$20 in to that laser and read heads
05:05 AM pink_vampire: https://www.instagram.com/p/BkLjuu1ACGc/?taken-by=cnc_programmer
05:05 AM pink_vampire: I just saw that.
05:06 AM norias: haha
05:06 AM `Wolf: oops lol
05:06 AM norias: dumbass
05:06 AM XXCoder: dumbass didnt do dry run jeez lol
05:06 AM norias: try a shorter vise next time
05:06 AM norias: it would have been fine without that tall vise
05:06 AM pink_vampire: he add -100 instead of +100
05:07 AM `Wolf: … can’t say much, I have done that
05:07 AM `Wolf: mdi the wrong axis
05:07 AM norias: yeah
05:07 AM norias: oh, so...
05:07 AM norias: i'm a supervisor at a machine shop
05:07 AM norias: and the one guy...
05:07 AM norias: most of the machines are manual
05:07 AM `Wolf: watch the x1 micro mill break a 3/8 end mill and throw the part out of the vise
05:07 AM pink_vampire: my vise can tell you..
05:08 AM XXCoder: sure mistakes can happen, just need to be really careful with talking some stuff
05:08 AM norias: and one guy is slated to learn CNC
05:08 AM norias: he made all his parts for the shift
05:08 AM norias: i literally had nothing left for him to make
05:08 AM norias: so i said, "go figure out how to turn the cnc on"
05:08 AM norias: keep in mind, i've run lots of cnc machines, just never this particular one
05:09 AM norias: so, we play around with mdi
05:09 AM norias: just moving axii around
05:09 AM norias: i had to go do something, so i left him alone with the instruction to not break anything
05:09 AM pink_vampire: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bf6WVODDazr/?taken-by=cnc_programmer
05:09 AM norias: i come back... machine is on the hard stop in the x axis
05:09 AM norias: he's freaking out
05:10 AM norias: i told him these things happen to everyone, no biggie
05:10 AM XXCoder: pink ow that picture... machine is ruined
05:10 AM norias: it took a while, but we found this button added to the control cabinet
05:10 AM norias: something like "X axis reset" scribbled in marker
05:11 AM norias: so, i press the button
05:11 AM `Wolf: lol always a good sign
05:11 AM norias: everything turns on
05:11 AM norias: but only while i am holding the button
05:11 AM norias: i say, "ok, hold this button for a minute"
05:11 AM norias: then i walked over and jogged the machine off the hard stop
05:11 AM pink_vampire: norias: here most of us build / convert out machines. so stuff like that are not very common here
05:12 AM norias: well, to be fair, this was a cnc conversion
05:12 AM norias: it's just... the machine is 20 ft. tall
05:13 AM XXCoder: lol
05:13 AM pink_vampire: LOL
05:13 AM XXCoder: one of those pallet loader type cnc machines?
05:13 AM XXCoder: horzional mill?
05:13 AM norias: horizontal boring mill
05:13 AM norias: floor type
05:14 AM pink_vampire: cat50 taper?
05:14 AM XXCoder: fancy 5 axis making aluminium top hat lol
05:14 AM norias: pink_vampire: yeah
05:14 AM `Wolf: I almost got a cat40 machine for my home shop…
05:15 AM norias: the place i work now has the biggest machine's i've ever seen
05:15 AM XXCoder: dont know how to get single entry link
05:15 AM norias: i think the travel on one of them is like 30' in the X
05:15 AM `Wolf: damn
05:15 AM norias: and 50' in the Y
05:15 AM XXCoder: oh https://www.instagram.com/p/BjKtHZVlRXA/?taken-by=cnc_programmer
05:15 AM `Wolf: lol that machine travel is larger then my house
05:16 AM norias: every part is moved by crane
05:16 AM XXCoder: wow!
05:16 AM norias: and sometimes the 50 ton crane isn't enough
05:16 AM XXCoder: whats you guys make in it??
05:16 AM XXCoder: whole cars? :P
05:16 AM norias: rolls for steel mills
05:17 AM norias: sometimes ancillary equipment or rolling stand components
05:17 AM norias: we actually have train tracks that run in to the facility
05:17 AM norias: so stuff can be hoisted on to a train
05:17 AM XXCoder: https://www.instagram.com/p/BitkocyFpwj/?taken-by=cnc_programmer interesting. flame to polish
05:17 AM norias: for shipping
05:18 AM XXCoder: heh place I work at is tiny compared to that
05:18 AM XXCoder: shop is larger but could maybe fit half of machines in your giant one
05:19 AM norias: yeah
05:19 AM norias: we have like 700,000 sq.ft under roofs
05:19 AM norias: and all of it covered by overhead cranes
05:19 AM norias: i think there are 30ish cranes
05:19 AM XXCoder: crazy
05:19 AM XXCoder: boeing?
05:19 AM norias: no
05:20 AM norias: Whemco Steel Castings
05:20 AM `Wolf: lol, almost local to me
05:20 AM XXCoder: cool
05:20 AM norias: Wolf: where are you?
05:21 AM `Wolf: Frederick, MD area
05:21 AM norias: ahh
05:21 AM norias: you have some nice shops down that way
05:21 AM norias: i see advertise for people
05:22 AM `Wolf: all sorts of weird stuff down here being close to DC
05:22 AM pink_vampire: did you have cnc fail?
05:22 AM norias: pink_vampire: eh?
05:23 AM pink_vampire: cnc fail video / pics?
05:23 AM norias: oh, naw
05:23 AM norias: sorry
05:24 AM pink_vampire: I'm trying to login to my instagram
05:24 AM pink_vampire: I have one that is funny
05:36 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: `Wolf: https://www.instagram.com/p/BlAflOqDjC_/?taken-by=pink.cnc
05:36 AM XXCoder: pushing a little hard lol nice and sparky
05:37 AM `Wolf: I did something like that when cutting a lathe tool holder down
05:38 AM pink_vampire: 0.1mm depth of cut, you can't go more then that. it is very springy steel.
05:38 AM `Wolf: everything looked good in the speeds and feeds calc
05:38 AM `Wolf: damn scary cut tho, wasn’t sure if the holder was hardened
05:39 AM pink_vampire: also the holes are not round as fuck
05:41 AM pink_vampire: but i think it was because I've used G64 P0.05
05:43 AM jthornton: morning
05:44 AM pink_vampire: jthornton: morning
05:45 AM pink_vampire: jthornton: https://www.instagram.com/p/BlAflOqDjC_/?taken-by=pink.cnc
05:58 AM pink_vampire: norias:
05:58 AM norias: pink_vampire:
05:58 AM pink_vampire: this is the video https://www.instagram.com/p/BlAflOqDjC_/?taken-by=pink.cnc
05:59 AM norias: fourth of july is over
05:59 AM pink_vampire: lol
06:09 AM XXCoder: lol
06:10 AM XXCoder: new idea: july 4th milling show
06:10 AM XXCoder: lots sparks with shit tools and very sparky materials
06:10 AM XXCoder: different materials for different colors
06:12 AM pink_vampire: actually the tool is very good USA made, the cut is just very small so it ignite
06:12 AM XXCoder: I know, it was just idea from your sparky machining, not suggestions :)
06:13 AM XXCoder: just delibrate "show" by cnc tool and material :)
06:13 AM pink_vampire: I'm still use that end mill.
06:14 AM XXCoder: like block of iron, block of titanium, and hmm what makes blue sparks? whatever material third one heh
06:14 AM XXCoder: and tiil switches between em to change chip colors
06:14 AM pink_vampire: i never try titanium
06:15 AM XXCoder: titanium is weird
06:15 AM XXCoder: tools live pretty good for such a hard metal if proper se
06:15 AM pink_vampire: aluminum just melt on the endmills
06:15 AM XXCoder: BUT you could break tools if not careful. as well as chips could be set on fire and make very very hot fire. get metal fire type D fire exuster for that
06:16 AM XXCoder: or youre stuck with fire you cant stop
06:17 AM pink_vampire: there is not alot of metal to go on fire.
06:17 AM pink_vampire: it is just the micro chips
06:17 AM XXCoder: Ti can be set on fire and make super hot fire
06:17 AM XXCoder: coworker set sample of chips on fire and dang
06:17 AM XXCoder: not as bad as umm what that metal name. oh yes! Mg, or magensium
06:18 AM pink_vampire: you mean to burn it with a torch?
06:18 AM XXCoder: yeah though if youre unlucky enough to set it off in machine it can be very nasty
06:18 AM jthornton: morning
06:18 AM XXCoder: its not easy to start Ti on fire but dang
06:19 AM XXCoder: anyway in case of that low chance I HIGHLY recommand getting type D fire stopper
06:19 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_oUiXliV_Q
06:20 AM XXCoder: as you can see its bit hard to set on fire but dang bright when its going
06:21 AM pink_vampire: ho about nickle alloy?
06:21 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK6eaMvE_SA even more when its dust lol
06:22 AM XXCoder: hmm dont know about nickel, I ran inocel but never tested its flammability. I highly doubt it is, because its made for inside jet engine!
06:23 AM XXCoder: btw apparently prop planes production have ended.
06:24 AM XXCoder: of course theres smaller customer ones but larger yeah
06:24 AM pink_vampire: prop planes!
06:25 AM XXCoder: propellear cant spell that word worth a damn
06:26 AM pink_vampire: I know,
06:26 AM pink_vampire: but did you make them?
06:26 AM XXCoder: nah
06:26 AM XXCoder: just end of era
06:28 AM pink_vampire: I mean before it end, did your facility machine them?
06:28 AM XXCoder: oh not likely
06:29 AM XXCoder: we make bunch of boeing planes parts but none of em is prop
06:31 AM pink_vampire: did you machine silver nickel?
06:31 AM XXCoder: nope
06:31 AM XXCoder: I tend to run either Al or Inocel
06:32 AM pink_vampire: it is like combine brass sheet (the non machinable) with 304 SS
06:33 AM Deejay: inconel :)
06:33 AM XXCoder: I always spell that wrong
06:33 AM pink_vampire: how hard is to cut it?
06:34 AM XXCoder: it eats tools. lol
06:34 AM pink_vampire: like cutting HSS?
06:34 AM XXCoder: 1/16 ball endmill engraving, carbide, it engraves only 30 parts before it goes dead
06:35 AM pink_vampire: so it's hard, or abrasive?
06:35 AM XXCoder: general machine its like stainless steel maybe, very had
06:35 AM XXCoder: hard so it breaks tools
06:38 AM pink_vampire: what are you doing with it most of the time?
06:38 AM XXCoder: engraving lol
06:38 AM pink_vampire: engraving??
06:38 AM XXCoder: I hate enjraving those parts.
06:38 AM XXCoder: yeah part #
06:38 AM XXCoder: its a requirement
06:38 AM pink_vampire: what about laser it?
06:39 AM XXCoder: dunno dont think laser can do it? there is specifications BAC on legability
06:40 AM pink_vampire: Im sure the machine put more stress then laser
06:42 AM XXCoder: dunno they say I do it that way I do it that way :)
06:43 AM XXCoder: im production shop worker, not gig job machinist after all
06:43 AM pink_vampire: https://www.epiloglaser.com/how-it-works/laser-material-compatibility.htm
06:43 AM pink_vampire: fiber laser can make it.
06:46 AM XXCoder: probably but shop dont have one
06:47 AM pink_vampire: but other then engraving, did you know how to machine it?
06:47 AM XXCoder: well I dont program parts so basically, no
06:56 AM `Wolf: glory of cnc operator life, hit cycle start, wait for crash?
06:57 AM XXCoder: sometimes lol
06:57 AM XXCoder: some parts is a... huge grind
06:57 AM pink_vampire: `Wolf: LOL!
06:57 AM XXCoder: runtime less than couple minutes, lots labor to change parts
07:08 AM jthornton: nice every time I open a tab in firefox it crashes
07:09 AM pink_vampire: opera?
07:09 AM jthornton: launch a new window and it crashes lol
07:09 AM XXCoder: did you recently update firefox?
07:09 AM jthornton: <jthornton> nice every time I open a tab in firefox it crashes
07:09 AM jthornton: I think it did yea
07:09 AM XXCoder: if so, you have to completely close firefox and open again for you to be able to open new tabs and windows
07:09 AM XXCoder: its been like that few versions
07:11 AM jthornton: that's stupid
07:11 AM XXCoder: it is.
07:34 AM * skunkworks likes chrome..
07:35 AM skunkworks: wow - it has been a while - but I installed a different rom on my phone. So much nicer so far
07:36 AM skunkworks: (Actually found out my wifes old phone had a boot loader that wasn't locked. (same model as mine - just different boot loader) so now I am using her old one.
07:38 AM skunkworks: a little chunk of cast (about 5"X7"X10")
07:38 AM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/DSC_8123.JPG
07:49 AM Sairon: oi
07:49 AM Sairon: that was a nice nap
07:49 AM Sairon: it seems like i don't sleep anymore
07:49 AM Sairon: just take random naps
07:50 AM Sairon: gimmee fuh gimmee fuh gimmee dabajabazaa!
09:37 AM Loetmichel_: skunkworks: THAT blade has seen better days ;)
09:58 AM hazzy-lab: skunkworks: Is that a Roll-In?
10:18 AM IchGucksLive: hi
10:19 AM hazzy-lab: hello Ichs
10:22 AM IchGucksLive: ;-)
10:31 AM skunkworks: hazzy-lab: ROLL-IN?
10:35 AM IchGucksLive: imoff till later
10:37 AM hazzy-lab: skunkworks: I thought your bandsaw looked like a roll-in, but I guess not :)
10:37 AM hazzy-lab: http://www.rollinsaw.com
10:37 AM skunkworks: hazzy-lab: the table on the bands saw? air assisted
10:37 AM skunkworks: it is a jet
10:37 AM hazzy-lab: Ah, ok!
10:41 AM hazzy-lab: We have a hydraulic assisted vertical in the ME shop as school, problem is it feeds at whatever speed you set it, no matter the cutting force. Air assisted would be much more forgiving, probably would save a lot of blades, lol
10:46 AM skunkworks: it is a little harder to get the right speed. (stalling the blade is common)
10:58 AM enleth: https://youtu.be/NcgYgH0H9WY?t=3m50s I wonder if that guy has no idea what he's doing or that lathe is really that badly designed it requires the operator to climb on top of it
10:59 AM enleth: (at 4:50)
11:00 AM `Wolf: might be just for visibility
11:01 AM `Wolf: and no qctp? what a pos
11:01 AM enleth: that too
11:01 AM enleth: but he's definitely not standing in a spot that was designed for it
11:02 AM `Wolf: poor design imo
11:03 AM hazzy-lab: skunkworks: The old DoAll don't stall :D In the wee hours one night somebody managed to shear/chew the flanges that keep the blade from pushing off the back of the wheels off by trying to feed to fast. When I replaced the wheels I saved the old ones for making a bandsaw log mill, hehe, somebody has to gain
11:52 AM `Wolf: hmm, I wonder how bad a $22 ER16 11pc collet set from amazon can be…
11:53 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:55 AM fragalot: Heya
11:55 AM fragalot: Wolf__: Quite bad. :-)
11:55 AM IchGucksLive: Wolf__, can you please change the nick it is hard to tab you
11:55 AM `Wolf: one review that I now can’t find said 20 thou runout
11:55 AM IchGucksLive: wolf '
11:56 AM `Wolf: yeah I need to fix that, I have ZNC installed but I haven’t set it up yet
11:56 AM IchGucksLive: 'wolf they can have realy bad runouts
11:56 AM `Wolf: I’m logged in from 3 computers lol
11:56 AM fragalot: Wolf__: .5mm.. you've got spindle indexing right?
11:56 AM IchGucksLive: ER16 i got from CN got mashine shaking at 8krpm
11:56 AM fragalot: because that's large enough to compensate for in software, lol
11:57 AM fragalot: turn it into a reverse boring tool, where the goal is to have the tool centered rather than offset
11:57 AM `Wolf: nope, only reason I want them if for drilling when I can’t fit a chuck in the machine
11:57 AM IchGucksLive: Wolf__, there are precice at 6USD
11:57 AM IchGucksLive: 0,003
11:58 AM `Wolf: I won’t bother with trying the dirt cheap with actual endmills
11:59 AM IchGucksLive: drills longer then 1" will maybe flycut
11:59 AM `Wolf: but 20 thou sounds more like not in the nut proper
11:59 AM IchGucksLive: i got a packege 50pcs 3.2mm drills and 10 now are like a hook
11:59 AM IchGucksLive: melting like butter
12:07 PM IchGucksLive: im off for Today Gn8 from the old german guy
12:24 PM * Loetmichel_ just ate a bit more than 2 lbs of grilled meat... had to grill it because it was close to "best before" (pre-marinated meat vacuum sealed planned for a grill session yesterday that didnt happen)... "in an emergency the meat tastes well without any sides" ;)
12:24 PM `Wolf: lol
12:24 PM `Wolf: hey gloops
12:24 PM gloops: evening
12:25 PM `Wolf: that mill you linked from eBay yesterday, thats a seig x2 similar to what I’m building up
12:25 PM Loetmichel_: *boooarpssss*... now a beer on that protein and fat intake ;)
12:25 PM gloops: really? oh i might keep an eye on it then, thanks
12:25 PM `Wolf: inside it is a 2 speed plastic gear set
12:26 PM jdh: replace broken gears with belt drive mod
12:26 PM `Wolf: usually breaks there, but you can belt drive convert it
12:26 PM gloops: it looked pretty sturdy for that kind of mill -dovetails and so on, but looked a bit tinny from the back
12:26 PM gloops: yeah would soon fix that up, probably sturdy the column up as well
12:26 PM gloops: it will probably go for the going rate in the end anyway
12:27 PM `Wolf: yeah the tilting column sucks
12:27 PM jdh: I had one for a few months. used it to mill the ballnut pocket on my g0704
12:27 PM `Wolf: mine is sorta a hybrid of parts lol
12:27 PM gloops: would only be for personal bits and bobs and hobby - not making anything for anyone else
12:28 PM `Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/OYrul3t.jpg
12:30 PM gloops: that looks well on the way to working
12:30 PM `Wolf: def getting a 3” spacer between the base and column
12:30 PM `Wolf: right now its all apart, redoing the ball screw mounts
12:30 PM gloops: the seigs usually get a lot of interest, ideal for garage/cnc stuff
12:31 PM `Wolf: and I need to redraw the top cap for stepper mount
12:31 PM `Wolf: thats cause they are cheap, harbor freight grade
12:31 PM gloops: is the column sturdy enough ? only 4 bolts on a smallish plate to the base
12:32 PM `Wolf: I’ll find out lol
12:32 PM `Wolf: can’t be any worse then my X1 cnc
12:32 PM fragalot: my RF45 only has 4 bolts holding the column onto the base too
12:32 PM fragalot: if they mate properly (eg. no shims, but full surface contact), it's quite alright
12:33 PM `Wolf: I think my jet knee mill is held together with bondo
12:33 PM gloops: id be tempted to bolt the base to a heavy slab with a 2nd column bolted to the original, behind, some kind of beefing up anywa
12:33 PM fragalot: gloops: there are people that have a bracket on the top of the column going to the wall
12:33 PM fragalot: which I think is a very interesting concept if you're not concerned with thermal expansion :P
12:33 PM gloops: that would do a lot as well
12:34 PM `Wolf: I’ve seen people box the column as well
12:34 PM gloops: hmm, also shaking a sectional wall to bits heh
12:34 PM `Wolf: I can’t do that because I’ll have a ball screw running down the back side
12:34 PM gloops: Wolf it might be ok as it is, probably is for ally anyway
12:35 PM `Wolf: if I get the itch bad enough I can alway servo up the knee mill =)
12:36 PM gloops: someone else was here doing a seig, not seem him recently though
12:37 PM `Wolf: I remember seeing one post somewhere that the person took the column and bolted it to the table and used it to flycut the riser block lol
12:38 PM gloops: he might have scraped the table first lol
12:38 PM `Wolf: nope lol
12:38 PM `Wolf: not sure if great idea or really dumb
12:42 PM Rab: Looks like this is primarily of interest to overclockerz and/or minerz.
12:42 PM Rab: uhh wrong channel, sorry
12:42 PM Rab: Wrong network even.
01:00 PM enleth: Loetmichel_: actually, you probably could keep it for a day longer after grilling it and maybe use it as a cold cut
01:00 PM enleth: Loetmichel_: OTOH, I'd probably have eaten it all myself
01:20 PM MrHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/253624140119 Brushless Servo Motor 400W
01:20 PM MrHindsight: Adjustable speed 200-4500r/min
01:24 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/4362-1300kv-1994w-brushless-motor-suitable-for-hydropro-inception.html?___store=en_us brushless 2kW .. Just add an ESC and encoder :P
01:24 PM fragalot: or if you prefer water cooled https://hobbyking.com/en_us/watercooled-brushless-inrunner-3660sl-3180kv.html?___store=en_us
01:25 PM `Wolf: but I want moar watts
01:26 PM `Wolf: that might be good for my drill press tho
01:26 PM fragalot: `Wolf: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-rotomax-150cc-size-brushless-outrunner-motor.html?___store=en_us
01:26 PM fragalot: 9.8kW
01:27 PM `Wolf: lol
01:27 PM MrHindsight: Max Amps: 90A
01:27 PM Loetmichel_: fragalot: they have an 11kw and an 13kw in stock there
01:28 PM `Wolf: 7650K rpm?
01:28 PM fragalot: `Wolf: yup
01:28 PM `Wolf: may need some gearing down
01:28 PM fragalot: low kv so it should have decent torque
01:29 PM Rab: Plus the minor detail of a 9800W 50V power supply.
01:29 PM roycroft: so to answer my question from last week, the price increases have started
01:29 PM roycroft: http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-Jointer-with-Spiral-Cutterhead/G0656X
01:29 PM MrHindsight: Max voltage: 18V Max current: 94A 1692VA
01:29 PM `Wolf: I’ll stick with the sewing machine motors
01:29 PM roycroft: note the 20% "tariff surcharge"
01:29 PM roycroft: er, "tariff fee"
01:29 PM Rab: Although there might be some salvage 48VDC telco stuff for cheap.
01:30 PM MrHindsight: buy uhmerican fuck yeah!
01:30 PM roycroft: grizzly are adding it to everything received from china after friday last
01:30 PM `Wolf: so, the whole catalog?
01:30 PM fragalot: Rab: very minor detail. it's obviously designed for burst loads, so just put on a bank of 14s Lipo's
01:30 PM fragalot: :D
01:31 PM roycroft: i'm willing to pay a bit more to support my local economy
01:31 PM MrHindsight: it's about time we put those Commie Capitalists in their place :p
01:31 PM roycroft: i always have been
01:31 PM roycroft: and the more local the better
01:31 PM roycroft: i'll pay a bit more to buy something in eugene than to get it from portland
01:31 PM roycroft: and i'll pay a bit more to get something from the northwest than from back east
01:31 PM Rab: Attn patriots: http://www.electromechano.com/
01:32 PM fragalot: I'll pay more to get something TODAY.
01:32 PM roycroft: but i can't afford to pay significantly more
01:32 PM fragalot: and I do pay more in local shops for the convenience
01:32 PM MrHindsight: fragalot: how much to get it yesterday?
01:32 PM fragalot: but I personally couldn't give a damn /where/ it's made as long as the quality of the product meets the standard I expect for the price
01:32 PM roycroft: i won't pay more to get less though
01:33 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: you mean like Amazon does where it pre-emptively ships things?
01:33 PM roycroft: i just had to replace a chest freezer that died after ~25 years
01:33 PM Loetmichel_: fragalot: "burst loads" as in 6 minutes "bursts"
01:33 PM MrHindsight: the problem with Chinaco motor ratings is finding out what the actual specs are
01:33 PM roycroft: i found the one i wanted at home depot
01:33 PM fragalot: Loetmichel_: add more batteries
01:33 PM MrHindsight: do you just derate by 30%, 50% or?
01:33 PM fragalot: Loetmichel_: and add more chargers :D
01:33 PM roycroft: and i found the same one at a locally-owned appliance dealer for $20 more
01:33 PM roycroft: i bought it from the local dealer, knowing that more of the money would stay in the local economy
01:34 PM roycroft: then the local dealer informed me when they were doing to deliver it
01:34 PM Loetmichel_: fragalot: i meant: they can take full power for surprisingly long periods of time before overheating
01:34 PM roycroft: the did not ask me
01:34 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: their rating system is vendor specific :P
01:34 PM roycroft: they informed me
01:34 PM fragalot: Loetmichel_: vortex cooler.
01:34 PM roycroft: and told me that they would never change that
01:34 PM MrHindsight: fragalot: how do I put a tool changer on a 5mm shaft?
01:34 PM Loetmichel_: you do dearate 50% for continous power though in that kind of model plane brushless outrunner
01:34 PM roycroft: i told them that home depot would schedule a 2 hour window for delivery, at my convenience
01:34 PM roycroft: and that if they can't do that as well i'm done with them
01:34 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: Easy.
01:35 PM roycroft: that's paying more and getting less
01:35 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: https://www.sorotec.de/shop/Tool-change-adapters-65mm-spindle.html <= plus an adapter
01:35 PM MrHindsight: are we referring to any trade partners as "Commie Bastards" again yet?
01:35 PM roycroft: "commie" is an utterly meaningless word
01:36 PM fragalot: (I accept NO claims if you bust it because it's not rated for 10kW throughput :P)
01:36 PM `Wolf: most of the major appliances were scratch and dent specials from best buy
01:36 PM roycroft: almost all economies on the planet are mixed economies
01:36 PM `Wolf: in my house
01:36 PM MrHindsight: roycroft: not if you're over 50 :p
01:36 PM roycroft: i am well over 50
01:36 PM Rab: roycroft, that is a reasonable standpoint as a consumer, but consider that HD has vastly more resources to throw at logistics.
01:36 PM roycroft: and i stand by what i just said
01:36 PM roycroft: or do you mean "under 50"
01:36 PM roycroft: as in iq?
01:36 PM MrHindsight: connotation vs denoation
01:37 PM MrHindsight: sorry to be so abstract, lets get back to making fun of specs
01:37 PM Rab: If the little guys can only schedule their relatively few deliveries at the customer's pleasure, they may operate at an unsustainable loss.
01:37 PM roycroft: rab: actually, home depot and the local store use the same outfit for deliveries
01:37 PM * Loetmichel_ is considering buying two of these and putting them in my BMW E36 convertible... if the german roadworhty agency wouldnt have so much paperwork requirements to make that road legal... -> https://german.alibaba.com/product-detail/mp202150-80kw-outrunner-brushless-motor-for-electric-vehicle-with-hall-sensor-60767246678.html
01:37 PM `Wolf: I take off 1/3 for china wattage
01:37 PM Rab: roycroft, touche, never mind.
01:38 PM roycroft: everyone outsources appliance deliveries these days
01:38 PM roycroft: it's the contract they have with the delivery folks that matters
01:38 PM MrHindsight: fragalot: gee wilikers that is expensive (tool changer)
01:38 PM roycroft: and the local store obviously have a crappy contract
01:38 PM Loetmichel_: 650A per motor at 400V... fun stuff ;)
01:38 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: Welcome to European made items.
01:39 PM fragalot: ..welcome to? why did I say that
01:39 PM `Wolf: lol
01:39 PM MrHindsight: Monday is colorful metaphor day
01:39 PM `Wolf: someone needs to get that tool changer and build a scale sized VMC
01:40 PM fragalot: `Wolf: syyl's got that toolchanger on his router :P
01:40 PM MrHindsight: fragalot: that is a very cure tool changer however, now I want one
01:40 PM MrHindsight: cure/cute
01:40 PM roycroft: and if i'm honest, it was the smug, snotty way that the local stop told me "that will *never* change" that put me off more than their inability to schedule the delivery to my convenience
01:40 PM roycroft: shop, not stop
01:40 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: if you think the toolchanger is cute, look at the size 10 taper toolholders
01:40 PM Loetmichel_: but that spindle stuff with model plane motors works. Especially well if small scale... Been there done that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-698Lwahn74
01:40 PM skunkworks: are there any android messenging apps that will login to a skype account (instead of using sype)
01:41 PM skunkworks: google is failing me
01:41 PM MrHindsight: fragalot: are these tools for children? or miniature people?
01:42 PM MrHindsight: skunkworks: you can message a Skype phone number
01:42 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: children are people too.
01:42 PM MrHindsight: almost people
01:43 PM fragalot: ha.
01:43 PM MrHindsight: they go through various stages, newborn, food returners, noise makers, pupils etc
01:44 PM MrHindsight: it's an expensive hobby
01:48 PM MrHindsight: fragalot: what is the torque like on the <1k rpm end of those commie BLDC motors?
01:49 PM gloops: Belgium v France tommorrow, big job for little country to do lol
01:50 PM MrHindsight: commie/asian trading partner
01:50 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: your guess is as good as mine, mainly depends on how good your ESC is
01:50 PM fragalot: but to put it to a number, i'd say about a metric shit ton
01:51 PM MrHindsight: mine is excellent thank you
01:51 PM MrHindsight: mst/min?
01:51 PM roycroft: i'm waiting for boris vs. theresa
01:51 PM Rab: MrHindsight, I think you'd want to use encoder feedback to the ESC rather than relying on back-EMF.
01:51 PM roycroft: that will be a much more entertaining match :)
01:51 PM MrHindsight: I try to keep EMF in front
01:51 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: metric shit tons meter.
01:52 PM fragalot: -s
01:53 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: https://www.goldenmotor.com/frame-bldcmotor.htm <= 20kW 160Nm peak
01:53 PM MrHindsight: I've been storing my back EMF since i was 12, should come in handy some day
01:53 PM fragalot: 80Nm rated
01:54 PM MrHindsight: those are many times the price of the hobby motors
01:54 PM roycroft: is emf sequestering a thing now?
01:55 PM roycroft: and do you store it in caves?
01:55 PM fragalot: indeed, so.. say about a quarter/third the torque on the hobby ones?
01:55 PM MrHindsight: the jury is still out on that
01:55 PM roycroft: or salt mines?
01:55 PM fragalot: mainly because the size is so much smaller
01:55 PM Rab: Note that those motors include hall-effect sensors for the control loop, rather than relying on back-EMF.
01:55 PM MrHindsight: noted in pen
01:55 PM pink_vampire: hiii
01:55 PM MrHindsight: hah who would only rely on back emf, losers
01:56 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: figured out what you are going to make yet?
01:56 PM Rab: MrHindsight, hobby BLDC manufacturers?
01:56 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: I do in the controller i'm making for valve cont~orl :P
01:56 PM fragalot: control*
01:56 PM pink_vampire: lol no
01:57 PM fragalot: i've even done a project waay back'in'the'day to do sensorless homing with steppers
01:59 PM pink_vampire: https://scontent-lga3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/38ef711e8713b111d65587f0d3bf2805/5BCF89C4/t51.2885-15/e35/26398144_149710252415258_5014605468924903424_n.jpg
02:04 PM gloops: hmm, trying to think what that could be used for pink_vampire
02:05 PM gloops: and didnt once stray towards any kind of fetish activity
02:05 PM pink_vampire: gloops: it is someone crash his machine
02:05 PM gloops: ahh yes i thought so
02:21 PM pink_vampire: https://www.instagram.com/p/BWbo0qWHJ0z/?tagged=
02:23 PM gloops: i had a saw blade come loose on a diesel sawbench once, was an interesting few moments
02:24 PM pink_vampire: OMG
02:24 PM gloops: do i run, duck, try to stop it, wait till it runs out of juice
02:25 PM pink_vampire: it is just fly out?
02:26 PM gloops: no, nothing happened, the blade just ran free, fairly well behaved, after a while i just went back and stopped the engine
02:27 PM pink_vampire: i see.
02:29 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder: for you https://www.instagram.com/p/BTuGCtol0md/?tagged=
02:35 PM XXCoder: good morning
02:35 PM XXCoder: looking
02:43 PM XXCoder: interesting looks like broke tool on part?
02:43 PM pink_vampire: it"s a 2" tool
02:44 PM hazzy-lab: Ouch!
02:48 PM pink_vampire: https://www.instagram.com/p/Be7zaotnMTa/?tagged= I love this picture,
02:51 PM XXCoder: wow looked smaller in picture. pictures got no sense of scale.
02:51 PM MrHindsight: fragalot: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20180706-aerosint-raises-850k-in-2nd-round-funding-for-multi-material-3d-printing.html
02:52 PM MrHindsight: a dispenser composed of multiple patterning drums (one per powder type) that selectively deposit fine powder
02:52 PM hazzy-lab: My brother almost put a 1/4" Jacobs chuck thru the enclosure on a haas. It was an office mill with the 40k spindle option, he was going to drill some holes at low speed but fat fingered the speed, he did not hit estop fast enough the the unbalanced chuck came off the arbor and flew like a bullet. It pierced the enclosure, but did not go thru
02:53 PM pink_vampire: this is why I add my HF spindle as AUX spindle to my low speed one.
02:54 PM pink_vampire: drilling/ facing / and stuff like that are much better on the low speed spindle
03:01 PM JT-Shop: yea amcrest is replacing the bad camera
03:01 PM andypugh: pink_vampire: I have a drill chuck that looks exactly like that. It’s a problem with self-tighening chucks and a very high torque spindle. They can self-tighten to destruction if the drill grabs.
03:03 PM pink_vampire: I think it is much safer to use a collet, only odd size drills go in my drill chuck.
03:47 PM MrHindsight: why would anyone use back EMF for positioning control of a BLDC motor?
03:48 PM MrHindsight: besides maybe really low budget where poor accuracy s required
03:48 PM Rab: Because it doesn't require any additional sensors or wiring?
03:49 PM Rab: Re-read your question. You wouldn't want to use it for positioning control.
03:50 PM Rab: But it's very commonly used with hobby BLDCs/ESCs for continuous rotation in one direction, e.g. quadcopter rotors.
03:52 PM Rab: That's my point about low-RPM torque. Back-EMF sensing ESCs don't perform so well at low RPMs, because there isn't much to sense. It's easy to stall or confuse them.
03:54 PM Rab: I have that type of motor on my small spindle and while it'll still turn at very low speeds, there's almost no torque. It's easy to defeate the ESC.
03:56 PM Deejay: gn8
04:57 PM hazzy-lab: Rab: I saw a vid a while back where somebody demonstrated using a BLDC for position control, it was pretty impressive, for a BLDC
04:57 PM hazzy-lab: As you say they usually stall at low speeds and/or "loose steps" and have very poor toque, but some how he found a way to mitigate those problems
04:58 PM Rab: hazzy-lab, the ODrive uses BLDCs for positioning, but with an external encoder.
04:58 PM hazzy-lab: I want to say he was using a modified version of STMBL, but I can't find the vid now
04:58 PM hazzy-lab: He did not have an encoder
04:59 PM hazzy-lab: But I think he might have been sending some high frequency pulses thru it to detect pos
04:59 PM Rab: Hmmm, that's an interesting idea.
05:00 PM hazzy-lab: I remember thinking it was really clever what ever he was doing, i wish I could find it again
05:03 PM sync: HFI is pretty common if you want to have rotor feedback at low speeds
05:22 PM tjb1_: Anyone ever setup modbus on an arduino before?
05:24 PM swampmonster is now known as justanotheruser
06:26 PM `Wolf_ is now known as `Wolf
06:56 PM MrHindsight: tjb1_: https://github.com/andresarmento/modbus-arduino
06:57 PM MrHindsight: https://www.cooking-hacks.com/documentation/tutorials/modbus-module-shield-tutorial-for-arduino-raspberry-pi-intel-galileo/
06:58 PM MrHindsight: Kludgudionos
07:00 PM MrHindsight: Rab: I went back and reread my question a few times. Can I stop now?
07:35 PM Rab: MrHindsight, sorry, I meant to indicate that *I* had reread your question.
08:40 PM hazzy-lab: rebecca: long time no see. Made anything with the router recently?
08:40 PM rebecca: hey :)
08:40 PM rebecca: nope, been working on a new router
08:40 PM hazzy-lab: excellent!
08:41 PM rebecca: with a 1400x1200x600 rail/ballscrew kit
08:44 PM hazzy-lab: very nice, you will enjoy that! No more having to machine parts in two setups (I think I remember you talking about having to do that)
08:47 PM rebecca: thanks! i hope so. i
08:47 PM rebecca: i'm kind of banking on bootstrapping a business with it
08:48 PM rebecca: had to take a hand trolley to the post office yesterday to haul back parts I had ordered. and that trolley was full!
08:52 PM rebecca: how is your machine going?
08:55 PM hazzy-lab: I love it when parts start arriving for a new project, i feel like a little child at Christmas. the post man always laughs at me being so excited, lol
08:56 PM hazzy-lab: I have not worked on my machine much, too many other projects, got a new project car and several other things that take up all my time :D
08:57 PM hazzy-lab: Really all I have left is to finish the limit switches, but since it works as is the pressure is low to get them done
08:58 PM rebecca: oh just install them! it's nice to have limit switches :D
08:59 PM rebecca: i'm going to be testing my inductive proximity limits soon. found a module that should make interfacing with them nice and simple.
09:01 PM hazzy-lab: I should just put them on, but I have been playing with different switch types, the X has had 4 different setups on it so far, lol
09:02 PM hazzy-lab: I finally got some inductive proxy switches that seems good though
09:04 PM hazzy-lab: But the new rabbit hole I have been thinking about going down is adding a notched "ring" to the ballscrews and having the proxy switch sense on that, it might almost be as good accurate as homing to an index on an encoder ....
09:06 PM rebecca: cool :)
09:07 PM tjb1_: thanks MrHindsight, you ever used it?
09:14 PM MrHindsight: tjb1_: no I tend to use STM32 vs duinos
09:14 PM tjb1_: same functionality?
09:17 PM tjb1_: It appears with modbus I can get inputs to the computer over USB
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10:18 PM holzjunkie1 is now known as holzjunkie