#linuxcnc Logs

Jul 04 2018

12:06 AM fragalot: Hey
12:28 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
12:28 AM IchGucksLive: and happy 4th of juli
12:48 AM IchGucksLive: gloops, good morning
12:49 AM IchGucksLive: gloops, they did it
12:56 AM gloops: hi Ichs - yes eventually
12:56 AM gloops: a win is a win i suppose
12:56 AM IchGucksLive: never won a shotout before in wM
12:56 AM gloops: only sweden and russia/croatia to beat now
12:57 AM IchGucksLive: gloops, querry
12:57 AM gloops: no i cant remember us winning on penalties
12:57 AM gloops: yes?
12:57 AM miss0r: mornin'
12:58 AM gloops: hi miss0r
12:59 AM miss0r: hehe. I just saw something amusing :D You know the free AVG antivirus, right? I just updated it on this machine, and it did the mandatory reboot now to complete the update or postprone x time
01:00 AM miss0r: 10 mins, 10 hours, next day, next week, next century
01:00 AM miss0r: They know what it is about
01:02 AM gloops: so long as you let your grandson have the password heh
01:03 AM miss0r: I think its a clever way of saying 'don't remind me'
02:01 AM Deejay: moin
02:02 AM Loetmichel: harhar... just noticed when smoking at the company backdoor: the big hinges i printed a year ago as a test seem to have fared not THAT well outside... wasnt the brightest idea to make them in black PLA when its in the bright sun outside... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17161&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
02:29 AM miss0r: I had a new shop door made by a local carpenter who was retired at the time. Sadly he has passed away now. This is 4 years ago, and signs that the craftmansship was not very good are starting to show very clearly now.
02:30 AM miss0r: i.e. when the weather has been try for a long time, the door will not latch when you close it, because it shrinks too much
02:30 AM miss0r: also, it is warping, making it nessesary to kick the door, while turning the key to lock/unlock it
02:31 AM miss0r: i.e, now that he is dead, I don't feel bad replacing it. So; should I design and build one myself or just go buy one of those medium security steel doors?
02:35 AM Loetmichel: a selfbuilt wooden door is a "i made THAT right" moment every day you walk thru... IF you get it right... but a steel door is easier and not that mich more expensive
02:35 AM miss0r: Oh, I'm absolutly going to build a steel one.
02:35 AM miss0r: IF I build one, its going to be steel, that is
02:37 AM miss0r: I'm desprately trying to locate a photo of the one I build for my mancave :)
02:42 AM miss0r: sadly it seems I have lost the photos
02:42 AM miss0r: I can get a pretty good door made professionally for around 1000eur
02:42 AM miss0r: it would quickly cost me that much in materials, should I decide to make it my self.
03:35 AM RyanS: I have one shiny ball https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FDmRfPQ3DaBVxPGPSLYCY6L6WodYP-g0/view?usp=sharing
04:09 AM RyanS: the stepper motor voltage formula is 32* square root of inductance. I wonder why 32
04:10 AM XXCoder: 32 is a 2 bit power
04:13 AM gloops: im actually still tidying the garage from when i built my router months ago lol
04:14 AM RyanS: but how is related to steppers? something to do with the number of windings?
04:14 AM XXCoder: honestly dunno just was making funny
04:14 AM gloops: finally got to putting everything back on shelves and in trays, didnt remember having so many drill bits
04:14 AM XXCoder: cleaning shop is great way to shop and get tools for free
04:15 AM gloops: i was in such a rush to get it done i never put anything away, stuff scattered everywhere
04:16 AM gloops: 2 coils on the 4 wire stepper RyanS
04:16 AM gloops: 4 coils on 8 wire
04:17 AM Loetmichel: gloops: not really. still 2 coils, just with a center "tap" where they can be disconnected
04:18 AM Loetmichel: so magnetically its still 2 coils
04:18 AM RyanS: so does that relate to the square root in the voltage formula?
04:18 AM gloops: i dont know
04:19 AM gloops: i know 4 wire are a lot easier to wire up
04:20 AM gloops: also less cable to carry - which is a factor, youre gonna have a ball of cable like a bowl of spaghetti with 8 wire
04:20 AM rmu: RyanS: I'm not sure either where that 32 comes from, but sqrt(L) is proportional to number of windings
04:20 AM Loetmichel: you dont normally put all 8 wires to the controllers
04:21 AM Loetmichel: you can connect them to your liking at the motor and then go with 4 wires to the stepper driver
04:21 AM gloops: no youre right Loetmichel
04:21 AM RyanS: I was worried about that but the motor I'm getting has a wiring diagram
04:22 AM gloops: you find the 2 pairs of coils, then the pair to each coil
04:22 AM Loetmichel: usually "both halves of a coil in parallel" for speed and "both halves of a coil in series" for high torque at low current and low speeds
04:23 AM RyanS: I'm going to 3d print a terminal housing and screw it on the stepper and have a cable gland
04:24 AM rmu: the 32 probably comes from analysis of losses in the motor and finding some kind of optimum
04:24 AM holzjunkie1: hello
04:24 AM rmu: IME it works reasonably well, but i didn't really use higher voltages
04:26 AM rmu: the gecko faq has this to say:
04:26 AM miss0r: RyanS: That looks like some nice turning. good job
04:27 AM rmu: overdrive ration [...] is the ration between the power supply voltage and the motor’s rated voltage. An empirically derived maximum is 25:1, meaning the power supply voltage should never exceed 25 times the motor’s rated voltage or 32 times the square root of motor inductance.
04:27 AM RyanS: my moror works out to 55 which is annoying because driver goes 50v and the next size driver 80v
04:28 AM rmu: --> empirically derived, probably only applies to the "usual" hybrid stepper motors and not other types
04:28 AM rmu: RyanS: will work fine with 48V or 55V... this formula only gives a maximum you shouldn't exceed
04:28 AM RyanS: oh ok 55 is the never exceed value
04:28 AM rmu: er... meant 50 instead 55
04:29 AM rmu: 60V would probably also be OK, but 80 would be excessive
04:29 AM gloops: get the 80v drivers
04:29 AM gloops: youll want them anyway
04:29 AM RyanS: will a 50V driver overload a 50V psu?
04:30 AM rmu: 80V drivers also don't mean you have to use 80V, usually they work with supply from anywhere between 18V - 80V or something like that
04:30 AM gloops: no, but you have to consider the amps for the psu
04:30 AM rmu: voltage rating of driver means never exceed supply voltage
04:30 AM gloops: get 60v+ psus, and 80v drivers
04:31 AM gloops: you cant put more than 50v through a 50v driver - it will trip
04:31 AM gloops: (or most seem to red light at the rating anyway)
04:31 AM RyanS: I'm using 4Nm, 4.2A nema 24 higher RPM than nema 32
04:31 AM rmu: release the magic smoke ;)
04:31 AM gloops: 4nm you want 60v at least
04:32 AM RyanS: motor can only handle 55v
04:32 AM gloops: it will take more
04:33 AM RyanS: it's 3mH inductance though
04:33 AM gloops: well, best approach is to follow the makers guidelines
04:33 AM gloops: a lot of people are putting 80v into nema 23s
04:34 AM gloops: its the small drivers that wont take more than 50v
04:34 AM rmu: RyanS: higher voltage means higher power-output of motor (potentially), but with diminishing returns and at cost of higher motor heating
04:35 AM rmu: so 32*sqrt(inductance) seems to be kind of a sweet spot
04:35 AM rmu: but thats not a hard limit
04:35 AM gloops: its debateable whether significantly more heat is produced
04:35 AM rmu: hard limit would be isolation breakdown of your motor windings
04:36 AM rmu: point is: the difference between 50V and 60V i will not matter that much
04:36 AM gloops: the driver chops the current, it isnt a straight ohms law calculation
04:37 AM gloops: youll see reports on facebook - someone complaining their machine is slow - they up the V - new machine, same motors
04:37 AM gloops: obviously im not an electrician so i cant advise on these things heh
04:39 AM gloops: but, supposing you did feel you needed to up the volts, and you bought 50v drivers and psus - you cant
04:39 AM gloops: you then have to buy new psus and drivers
04:40 AM gloops: whereas if you buy 80v drivers and psus - you CAN run it at the makers 50v reccomendation from the start
04:41 AM RyanS: hmm stepper online has DM556T and DM860I (80v).. no idea of the difference between T and I. DM860T was recommended but it's 36v-110v
04:42 AM gloops: ive not found any difference between dm542a dm542 dm542t etc
04:43 AM gloops: tbh i found no difference between those and tb6600 - apart from the fact that when i was having problems the tb6600s died rather more easily
04:44 AM RyanS: tb6600 seems a bit long in the tooth
04:44 AM gloops: they work ok..
04:45 AM RyanS: speaking of which this has the tb6600 but it's just an indexer https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8kMGqIWhRiHbzRIYUxZSVFvZTQ/view?usp=sharing
04:47 AM RyanS: speaking of which, dust covers are the only useful thing for a 3d printer
04:48 AM RyanS: I don't want plastic crap on my display shelf they're for the metalwork projects
04:50 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-Stepper-Motor-Driver-2M542-1-0A-6-0A-Controller-20-60V-DC-57-86-2-phase/111469438213?
04:53 AM RyanS: makes sense to have flexibility with the drivers but you would still need to upgrade the PSU
04:54 AM gloops: well 50v psu will only give 50v
04:55 AM RyanS: I think I'll use a linear psu. less complex and probably more reliable than a cheap SMPS
04:55 AM gloops: tbh i think youll probably get the 5m/min from 50v setup
04:56 AM gloops: but if you dont you end up like me - the cheap drivers werent cheap at all, because this is the 3rd lot ill be buying
05:05 AM RyanS: I don't get the 30:1 gearbox and no microstepping idea. I thought modern drivers compensate for torque loss with microstepping
05:07 AM jthornton: morning
05:07 AM gloops: the gearbox will introduce backlash
05:14 AM RyanS: you have to use precision gearbox they can go to umm 3 arc minutes backlash
05:14 AM RyanS: expensive
05:20 AM jthornton: at Automation Direct they start at $400 for a precision gearbox
05:33 AM miss0r: When designing my new door here, I've come up with an idea. For adding an anti drill layer, would it make sense to use some kevlar fabric? I'm thinking that would get any drill attempts stuck in its tracks. (yes I am bat shit crazy, yes I have a security door fetish yes, yes & yes)
05:42 AM RyanS: I knew it, the weather and 24hr darkness makes Scandinavians a bit bonkers
06:06 AM gloops: if theyre that determined theyre probably going to get in anyway
06:07 AM gloops: tool thieves usually carry simple stuff, bolt crops maybe, a bar
06:08 AM RyanS: C4
06:11 AM gloops: the bikes thieves here often look for ads for bikes for sale, and go and have a viewing - case the joint out for breaking in, then return at night
06:11 AM gloops: i suppose that could be done with tools/machines
06:11 AM gloops: call in to price a job up - have a good look round
06:15 AM RyanS: is there any issue using steppers without a reduction? 55v gives me 648 RPM and 8m/min with 25mm pinion... exactly where I want the max speed
06:19 AM gloops: i dont think so, better if you can avoid pulleys and stuff
06:19 AM gloops: youll be lucky to get 648rpm though
06:20 AM RyanS: the stepper calculator has that for 55V
06:20 AM gloops: mine drop off around 200rpm i think
06:21 AM RyanS: but I could use a bigger pinion
06:22 AM RyanS: nema 34 in the same calculator is 350rpm
06:23 AM gloops: is that considering the load and acceleration?
06:23 AM RyanS: no it's just the top speed
06:24 AM RyanS: point is I don't think I want a reduction
06:24 AM gloops: i get 5m/min on the y with 3-1 gearing, so motor is doing 333 rpm
06:25 AM gloops: thats safe for cutting with a router - would do more if it didnt have to cut
06:25 AM gloops: quite a bit more id guess
06:25 AM RyanS: I must be calculating it wrong
06:28 AM gloops: its probably right - top speed with no load
06:28 AM RyanS: this just converts RPM to linear
06:28 AM gloops: then acceleration - it has to be reasonable, otherwise youll never reach the top speed in the distance
06:28 AM gloops: might only be moving 40mm
06:28 AM RyanS: hmm and more torque is more speed
06:28 AM RyanS: umm
06:28 AM RyanS: no acceleration
06:31 AM gloops: i have to move over 100lbs, from standing to top speed very quickly, with enough force to push a cutter through wood, surprising what those little steppers can do
06:31 AM gloops: you can have much lighter gantry etc, no cutting force, should get a lot more speed
06:34 AM RyanS: and less torque presumably
06:35 AM gloops: well, put the torque into gearing
06:40 AM RyanS: gear it up?
07:01 AM gloops: well you dont need torque for cutting so may as well use it for speed?
07:04 AM rmu: RyanS what are you trying to build?
07:04 AM RyanS: plasma
07:05 AM rmu: re "linear" power supply: if you go the no-SMPS route, transformer + rectifier + filter caps is sufficient, no need to regulate voltage for steppers
07:05 AM RyanS: max speed I want is 7900mm/min
07:06 AM rmu: if it helps: i run a 7A Nema34 stepper @ 80V with about 1000RPM topspeed, this moves a print-head with about 1m/s topspeed
07:08 AM RyanS: i'm thinking nema 24, 4Nm @ 60V
07:08 AM rmu: so it has some torque left at that speed, although not much
07:08 AM rmu: holding torque according to datasheet is 9Nm of this stepper, didn't measure
07:09 AM rmu: holding torque of this stepper according to datasheet is 9Nm is more proper engrisch
07:10 AM RyanS: so I could easily get 8m/m from the nema 24s?
07:14 AM rmu: RyanS: it should be possible, but no guarantees ;)
07:27 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
07:27 AM RyanS: hi
07:28 AM XXCoder: hey
07:28 AM IchGucksLive: gloops, the mashine runs at 6m/min
07:28 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, hi https://youtu.be/bd3UCLH1YuM
07:28 AM IchGucksLive: gloops, it is realy belive me the very first movements no tuning at all
07:28 AM IchGucksLive: gloops, https://youtu.be/bd3UCLH1YuM
07:30 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, make yiour own gearing
07:31 AM IchGucksLive: xc happy 4th
07:31 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder, ;-)
07:31 AM RyanS: you mentioned DM860T if I want more flexibility. but that's max 110V. how about DM860I, max 80v. and the 4Nm stepper can use 55V
07:32 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, at your system almost everything meets your need
07:33 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, it is always the SPEED vs Torque vs precision vs Cost
07:33 AM RyanS: even 7900 mm/min. that's the fastest I ever need to go
07:34 AM IchGucksLive: yes then calculate on this
07:34 AM IchGucksLive: get the precision to 0,1mm
07:34 AM IchGucksLive: as you are on plasma
07:34 AM IchGucksLive: so get the torque higher
07:34 AM IchGucksLive: but keep the costs in view
07:35 AM IchGucksLive: WHAT is BEST
07:35 AM IchGucksLive: Closed loop 12Nm
07:35 AM IchGucksLive: what is need TB6600 2Nm at 15:1
07:35 AM IchGucksLive: all within
07:36 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, i well know your problem as i got it almost every week
07:36 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, on building 100+ mashines ((more calculating and Constructing then actuly mounting HERE ))
07:37 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, thew Mechanics is the KEY to your best setup
07:37 AM IchGucksLive: so what are you on
07:37 AM IchGucksLive: TIMINBELT over max lewngth
07:38 AM IchGucksLive: SBR and 1605
07:38 AM IchGucksLive: Rack pulley
07:38 AM IchGucksLive: pinion
07:39 AM RyanS: tb6600 2Nm 15:1 sounds slow but I have an international relations degree because maths isn't my thing. so I don't know
07:39 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, ALL REALY ALL Drivers can go 50Khz
07:40 AM IchGucksLive: so it is your mass that counts
07:40 AM IchGucksLive: you need less then 30khz
07:40 AM IchGucksLive: the DRIVER is not your problem
07:41 AM IchGucksLive: if you are willing to pay the M860 I then Do it
07:41 AM IchGucksLive: is is almost the best below HS86 you can buy
07:41 AM RyanS: do I even need a reduction on the stepper? it would be easier to go direct. or at least 3:1 belt reduction is cheaper and no backlash
07:42 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, did you calculate at 8Nm HSS86
07:44 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Nema23-5-1-10-1-15-1-20-1-30-1-40-1-50-1-100-1-Reducer-Planetary-Gearbox-Ratio/222884906195
07:44 AM RyanS: I used 4Nm but my calculations was like 1m/min with 5:1 so I don't think I calculated it correctly
07:46 AM IchGucksLive: Microstepping under EMI is quite a big risk
07:47 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, what is your mashine now RAIL and pich setup
07:47 AM IchGucksLive: YOU said 2500mm as i remember in X
07:48 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, there is one in Argentina that run the hypertherm on a bicicle chain
07:48 AM IchGucksLive: return precicion below 0,5
07:49 AM IchGucksLive: all on tb6560 100USD electronics including stepeprs
07:51 AM RyanS: i used v = r x rad/s with about 600rpm motor ,25mm pinion / 15 ratio is 0.5 m/min. I must be missing some calculations
07:51 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, this you can direct mount to the system nothing needed https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HSS86-NEMA34-Hybrid-Driver-Servo-Stepper-Motor-8-5N-m-Closed-Loop-86HSE8N-BC38/322848531812
07:51 AM IchGucksLive: BUT it is the COST
07:52 AM IchGucksLive: it will run 2000Steps/rev AT FULL 8Nm
07:53 AM IchGucksLive: so at Rack Pinion T10 Z12 its 120mm/2000Steps its 0,06mm/step
07:54 AM IchGucksLive: so the stepper can go 3000rev/min
07:55 AM IchGucksLive: calculation on 2000RPM max
07:56 AM RyanS: 3mH, 4.2A at 55v is 640 RPM , could I get faster from it.? I would have to use nema23 for those gearboxes
07:57 AM RyanS: so whatever speed they are
07:58 AM IchGucksLive: WHY not spending the money of the gearbox to the CLOSED loop
07:58 AM IchGucksLive: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HSS86-NEMA34-Hybrid-Driver-Servo-Stepper-Motor-8-5N-m-Closed-Loop-86HSE8N-BC38/322848531812
07:58 AM IchGucksLive: then you need nothing
07:59 AM IchGucksLive: they make 3000rpm top speed
07:59 AM IchGucksLive: and they wont loose any step and torque
07:59 AM IchGucksLive: they dont have emi
08:00 AM IchGucksLive: and availablein Australia
08:01 AM RyanS: 86Hse is only $200,more for me, and save cost on gearboxes. BUT can the standard linuxCNC setup use closed loop? especially considering I haven't built a cnc before
08:02 AM IchGucksLive: they are the same as every other Driver
08:02 AM IchGucksLive: in case of wirering
08:03 AM RyanS: i definitely don't know how to program, write post processor so it would have to be Jthorntans post and software setup
08:05 AM RyanS: does linuxCNC see the difference between open and closed loop? because only Pulse +/-, dir, enable is connected to the 7i76e
08:05 AM RyanS: i guess not?
08:06 AM IchGucksLive: the driver does do this
08:07 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, its a closed loop stepepr system not a SERVO
08:08 AM IchGucksLive: there are only the EN CW Pul pins
08:08 AM IchGucksLive: nothing else to the 7i76
08:08 AM RyanS: ok so linuxCNC effectively believes it's just am open loop stepper?
08:08 AM IchGucksLive: yes
08:08 AM IchGucksLive: but it can do 200k steps per second easy
08:09 AM IchGucksLive: you do not need somthing extra in mechanics at 8Nm
08:10 AM IchGucksLive: simply caculate your Rack pinion at around 120mm/rev lenth
08:10 AM IchGucksLive: depending on module Rack
08:11 AM tiwake: when I built the controller for my hardinge CHNC, will I need an oscilloscope?
08:11 AM tiwake: s/built/build
08:12 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, Diameter = Module*teeth
08:12 AM RyanS: actually the price of that with savings in gearboxes is only $ 100 more, think I will go with the closed loop
08:13 AM IchGucksLive: up to you as always
08:13 AM IchGucksLive: 70V psu
08:13 AM IchGucksLive: one per stepper
08:14 AM IchGucksLive: boosts up the Cabinett
08:14 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/schrank.jpg
08:14 AM RyanS: anyway thanks for the advice I must head to bed
08:15 AM IchGucksLive: NP to spend your money
08:15 AM tiwake: heh
08:15 AM IchGucksLive: tiwake, mine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR7fEm3sbfE
08:16 AM IchGucksLive: tiwake, 20USD
08:21 AM IchGucksLive: im off till later
08:22 AM tiwake: using a voltmeter to read the voltage instead of the oscilloscope is rather chinky
08:45 AM gloops: who was looking for reamers https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/476572432801753
09:05 AM tjb1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPM2HPWY1DI
09:19 AM tjb1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dCC8aLMwoI
09:19 AM tjb1: Cool stuff with a gopro in the machine there
10:35 AM hazzy-lab: Happy independence day to all those here in the US!
10:51 AM gloops: also known as traitors day, elsewhere
10:52 AM Rab: haha
10:58 AM rmu: ha! announcing reunion with the uk would be a bold move for trump! a REALLY unexpected one!
10:58 AM rmu: make britain great again ;)
11:02 AM Rab: The way things have gone over the past few decades, I think there's a lot of precedent for declaring the UK our deadliest enemy on account of all the nuclear weapons we have stashed there.
11:04 AM roycroft: um, sorry, you're totally wrong about that
11:04 AM roycroft: canada are our deadliest enemy now
11:04 AM roycroft: damn poutine eaters
11:06 AM enleth: anyone here ever tried running a permanent magnet 3-phase AC servo off of a regular VFD?
11:08 AM enleth: supposedly a vector VFD should be capable of driving a servo, but I've found contradictory information on how well it works
11:20 AM Tom_L: no but i wanted to try if it would work
11:29 AM fragalot: hi
11:55 AM rmu: enleth: a synchronous machine should in principle work on a VFD, but spinning it up might be a challenge
11:56 AM miss0r: Goodevening
11:58 AM miss0r: fragalot: I ordered three servos from thailand, and had them ship it express. I'm thinking I should be able to combine the three to one working. :]
12:01 PM enleth: rmu: the most technical-sounding opinions on the subject I found claimed that there's a risk of synchronization loss upon sudden load increase and mentioned that vector VFDs might be able to deal with that, but did not elaborate
12:02 PM enleth: someone somewhere noted that it requires tuning the VFD parameters in a way that would be very wrong and weird for an induction motor
12:08 PM IchGucksLive: hi all
12:09 PM IchGucksLive: there is thunder around
12:09 PM IchGucksLive: hail today
12:09 PM IchGucksLive: gloops, online
12:10 PM IchGucksLive: enleth, there are special VFD for this types of motors
12:13 PM miss0r: IchGucksLive: Send some of that weather my way!
12:13 PM miss0r: if you leave a cracker out over night here, it will still be crunchy in the morning
12:13 PM IchGucksLive: we also need water
12:13 PM miss0r: yeah. Everything around here is so dry at the moment
12:16 PM rmu: enleth: probably depends on the kind of VFD you are using. vector control of asynch motor probably will not work for synchronous motor.
12:19 PM enleth: rmu: so perhaps it might just be that some vector VFDs have so wide tuning ranges and so little arbitrary constraints on the parameters that it is possible to force them to drive a synchronous motor correctly
12:19 PM enleth: but good luck trying
12:22 PM rmu: enleth: you are talking about sensorless VFD, right?
12:22 PM enleth: yes
12:22 PM IchGucksLive: im off it is getting BAD now
12:22 PM enleth: rmu: without an encoder/resoslver connected, sensing the motor position by back-EMF only
12:23 PM enleth: or whatever black magic they use to do that
12:23 PM rmu: that depends on speed, back-EMF is useless at standstill, i.e. in brake-mode
12:23 PM rmu: not useless, just not there
12:23 PM IchGucksLive: here is todays work e mashine that dident move 150km of way to get to it and 1hr to moving
12:23 PM IchGucksLive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd3UCLH1YuM&feature=youtu.be
12:24 PM IchGucksLive: 3600mm/min untuned
12:24 PM enleth: rmu: and induction motors themselves are pretty useless at standstill too, so it's not a problem when you use a regular VFD as intended
12:25 PM rmu: enleth: not necessarily, even AC motors can be controlled at/near standstill
12:25 PM rmu: but: why would you want to do that? do you have a spare BLDC you want to use as a spindle motor?
12:26 PM rmu: expensive motor on cheap drive somehow doesn't make sense ;)
12:27 PM enleth: a friend of mine acquired a sizeable bunch of Allen-Bradley 3-phase permanent magnet servos and we're wondering how to drive them
12:27 PM enleth: and there's more where that came from
12:27 PM enleth: they're in 900W-4.5kW power range
12:27 PM rmu: get a bunch of STMBLs
12:27 PM enleth: 460Vrms
12:28 PM enleth: isn't STMBL pretty limited in the output voltage range?
12:28 PM rmu: 460 RMS seems odd
12:28 PM rmu: they are working on a 600V version
12:28 PM enleth: oh, that's better
12:29 PM enleth: I remember checking some time ago and finding out it's something like 100V max with then current design
12:30 PM Tom_L: ya gotta start somewhere..
12:30 PM enleth: 600V could handle the Siemens servos in my KUKA arm
12:30 PM rmu: stmbl is 325V at the moment
12:31 PM Tom_L: is that based on imput voltage?
12:31 PM Tom_L: or does it step the input up
12:32 PM rmu: that amounts to about 250V or so
12:33 PM rmu: that is rectified and filtered 230V AC
12:33 PM rmu: no step up
12:34 PM rmu: in theory you could reach 2/sqrt(3) times dc link voltage IIRC
12:56 PM gloops: hottest weekend this year forecast
12:57 PM gloops: this is getting beyond a joke
01:06 PM gloops: fragalot - Belgium v Brazil on friday - i think you can win
01:07 PM enleth: rmu: https://i.imgur.com/MhuX6Ei.jpg
01:09 PM fragalot: gloops: Obviously. :-)
01:11 PM gloops: i hope Belgium do get to the final, France will be very difficult though
01:29 PM CaptHindsight: what's the good news today?
01:31 PM gloops: Mr Frisky was safely rescued from the cherry tree
01:35 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: Good news is that it stormed heavily yesterday
01:36 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: bad news is that it didn't bring any water to the region :P... and delayed my flight.
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: flight in or out?
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: can't you guys make some deal with that area with all the windmills and tulips?
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: they have lots of water, too much
02:01 PM gloops: thats holland
02:03 PM CaptHindsight: close enough to have a bucket brigade
02:03 PM gloops: no rain in the forecast for the next month here, and getting hotter
02:03 PM CaptHindsight: and short of beer?
02:04 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: flight in.
02:04 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: actually,.. coca cola and similar are/were struggling with a CO2 shortage
02:10 PM gloops: i dont want any beer anyway
02:11 PM fragalot: as if you could get beer in the UK :P
02:11 PM * fragalot walks off with a smug look
02:12 PM gloops: i dont think its particularly clever to get blind drunk, id rather stay in control
02:12 PM fragalot: of course
02:12 PM fragalot: good beer is made to be enjoyed, not to get pissed
02:16 PM gloops: i cant really think of any great Belgian beers fragalot
02:17 PM rmu: gulden draak?
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: probably why they use the term "pissed" since that is what their beer tastes like in the UK :P
02:18 PM gloops: 'pissed' comes from something else heh
02:18 PM gloops: our beer although largely watered down now for exports, is still the best
02:19 PM fragalot: rmu: gulden draak does not rank very high on my list
02:20 PM gloops: a lot of things to do with 'piss' come from the tanning trade, when urine was used for tanning
02:20 PM fragalot: gloops: no offence but your beer tastes like someone took the drip tray from the tap, rinsed it, and left that mixture out in the sun before serving it as "beer"
02:20 PM gloops: poor people used to sell their urine - for a very small amount
02:21 PM gloops: fragalot belgian tastes like yeast
02:21 PM fragalot: Aye - quite interesting to see the underground tanneries in the nottingham caves
02:21 PM fragalot: gloops: That depends entirely on the beer
02:21 PM fragalot: we've got great ones, and we've got awful ones
02:22 PM gloops: it smells and tastes a bit like un-baked bread
02:22 PM fragalot: I've tried a small microbrewery beer the other day called "Kerel" who's slogan was "untouched by monks".. and you could tell. worst beer ever. :P
02:22 PM fragalot: except their IPA was spot on.. which is aweful imho.
02:23 PM gloops: a lot used to turn up when people were doing the 'beer run' to Belgium, avoiding UK duty etc
02:23 PM gloops: usually crates of small bottles
02:25 PM gloops: https://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/food-drink/beer-cider-perry/best-belgian-beer-reviews-brands-to-try-list-brussels-uk-in-the-world-most-popular-a7875611.html
02:25 PM gloops: 'more to this land than chocolate and waffles' lol!
02:26 PM fragalot: hehe
02:27 PM gloops: Duvel Tripel Hop Citra, 9.5%: £4 for 330ml, Beer Hawk
02:27 PM fragalot: tried that one. not my thing
02:27 PM fragalot: also - you get nearly half that back when you return the bottle
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: untouched by those with taste
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: are they referring to the beer or their children?
02:33 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: I guess we'll never know.
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: I've been anti-hop lately
02:35 PM fragalot: the airline?
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: pretty much just been drinking sours
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: flight hops are OK, if they aren't too long
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: many layovers should be longer though
02:37 PM fragalot: especially international
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
02:37 PM fragalot: been to indianapolis a few times from chicago
02:37 PM fragalot: and nearly every time i've missed the layover
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: Cathay Pacific has 13 hour layovers in Hong Kong
02:38 PM fragalot: because several large planes land at the same time, and there is a singular border control officer
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: too short to do much and too long to stay up though after a 13 hour flight
02:38 PM fragalot: yeah
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: it's a 3 hour drive not during rush hour
02:39 PM rmu: fragalot: gulden draak is the only belgian beer i can remember
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: Chicago to Indi
02:39 PM fragalot: yeah last few times I've just taken a rental car
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: what's in Indi? not much there
02:39 PM fragalot: which has resulted in my seat being gone in chicago when flying back because I was a no-show for the indi flight
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: far too southern for me :p
02:39 PM fragalot: one of our facilities
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, miss the first leg and you lose the whole trip
02:40 PM fragalot: well I got upgraded to business first
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: nice
02:40 PM fragalot: so all in all, not too bad :D
02:40 PM fragalot: (it really does make a huge difference in terms of jetlag)
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: ah have to try that
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: lag doesn't really bother me
02:41 PM fragalot: but it's kinda annoying how they keep bugging you if you really are sure that you don't want more champagne
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: I'm usually so tired when I travel it doesn't matter
02:41 PM fragalot: lol
02:41 PM fragalot: going TO the US is alright.. tiring, but alright
02:42 PM fragalot: going back home is horrendous
02:42 PM fragalot: 2/3 times i'm so tired I forget my bags on the train
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: ever get them back?
02:42 PM fragalot: yeah every time. helps to know the right people
02:44 PM CaptHindsight: what annoys me more is the trip through xray and detectors when still in transit
02:44 PM fragalot: you mean the theatre? :P
02:44 PM CaptHindsight: I went though the joke when my trip started
02:44 PM fragalot: what I love
02:44 PM CaptHindsight: now they are bugging me about liquids from duty free
02:44 PM fragalot: is how they take away your liquids, because they might be potentially dangerous (to their profit)
02:44 PM fragalot: so they put it in a larger bin with a lot more potentially dangerous liquids
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: makes sense :)
02:45 PM fragalot: :D
02:45 PM fragalot: when there was a terrorist bombing in brussels, they decided it was safer to have more checkpoints
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: energy bars sets off alarms
02:45 PM fragalot: so the queue just moved elsewhere
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: my son had a playstation, 15" LCD and controller built it to a carry on....
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: but they went nuts over the 2 energy bars in the pocket of the bag
02:47 PM fragalot: hehe.
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: leaving China they tend to do a spot check right before boarding...
02:48 PM XXCoder: fragalot: 2 terrorists with big containers of liquid
02:48 PM XXCoder: let tsa do work for them
02:48 PM fragalot: last I was in the USa they had signs everywhere saying "GOOD NEWS! you don't have to take off your shoes anymore!"
02:48 PM XXCoder: binary bomb
02:48 PM fragalot: first question they asked me "sir can you take off your shoes"
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: sometimes I have several laptop, tablet, LCD, etc devices in my bag
02:48 PM XXCoder: lol
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: the look on their faces when you pull out one after another
02:48 PM fragalot: xD
02:49 PM fragalot: someone I know made the mistake of using his job jargon and honesty when asked what was in his bag
02:49 PM fragalot: "a spray gun"
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: heh
02:49 PM fragalot: turns out that word is a trigger to get tackled, lol
02:49 PM tiwake: don't fly, drive
02:50 PM XXCoder: tiwake: yeah drive for a week
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: I once got my flight wrong coming back from New York, I had a complete mini Linuxcnc system in my bag with 2 8" positioners and motors
02:51 PM tiwake: also 1/3 of my bathroom is now rather clean
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: three guys got in from of me right before the TSA checkpoint from Syria...
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: from/front
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: I thought I'd have to skip the flight or lose the parts..
02:51 PM fragalot: so the first time i went to the usa, I wound up in the wrong terminal
02:52 PM fragalot: went to the other terminal via the "unsecure" zone, as there's no other way
02:52 PM fragalot: told the security there "hi I was in the wrong terminal, they already checked me and i'm late for my flight"
02:52 PM fragalot: so they just let me skip it
02:52 PM fragalot: >.>
02:52 PM CaptHindsight: wow
02:52 PM XXCoder: youre white right?
02:52 PM fragalot: XXCoder: how'd you guess?
02:52 PM tiwake: if it aint white it aint right
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: if my layovers are long enough I'll go out through customs into the main terminals
02:53 PM XXCoder: whiteness is universal "it's all okay" card
02:53 PM XXCoder: in usa anyway
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: then come back in to get my Visa stamp
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: pretty much
02:53 PM gloops: lol
02:54 PM gloops: if anything, the reverse here
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: when I left New York the TSA agent scanned my bag and made a hockey comment since the Blackhawks were playing against the Rangers that night..
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: I gave him crap about them and he let me through
02:54 PM tiwake: heh
02:56 PM tiwake: CaptHindsight: when I built the controller for my hardinge CHNC, will I need to get a good oscilloscope?
02:56 PM tiwake: s/built/build
02:56 PM fragalot: it's never a bad investment to get a decent-ish scope
02:56 PM tiwake: this is true
02:57 PM tiwake: but wondering if its used for building a controller
02:57 PM fragalot: at the very least a DS1054Z
02:57 PM fragalot: you can get by without one
02:57 PM fragalot: it's just harder when things don't work
02:58 PM tiwake: I'm slightly concerned about a power supply and controllers for the two servo motors
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: tiwake: by building do you mean connecting Mesa cards and similar to a PC or?
02:59 PM tiwake: CaptHindsight: that and something to power the servos... might need to get new servos and encoders
02:59 PM tiwake: donno yet..
03:00 PM tiwake: chances are the servos are good, maybe
03:00 PM tiwake: the controller that the lathe came with is completely missing
03:00 PM tiwake: so I have to build everything
03:01 PM tiwake: including the user interface, whatever buttons, etc.
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: what fragalot said about tools, always handy but not especially necessary
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: but a 5 minute problem can be a several day problem without a scope
03:03 PM tiwake: alright
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: bbl
03:04 PM tiwake: fragalot: isnt there a hack for that one to get it to operate at 100mhz?
03:04 PM fragalot: tiwake: Yup
03:04 PM fragalot: i've got the 1052 at home for nearly... 7 years I think?
03:04 PM fragalot: and it's basic, but works well
03:05 PM fragalot: the 1054 is more refined in terms of display
03:05 PM tiwake: hmm
03:06 PM fragalot: using the 2000 & 4000 series at work.. good units, but way more scope than what you need for troubleshooting
03:06 PM fragalot: if all you're ever going to do is troubleshoot, the 1052 would suffice
03:09 PM tiwake: what else would I want it for?
03:09 PM fragalot: building circuits, if that's your thing
03:10 PM tiwake: I guess not
03:10 PM tiwake: heh
03:10 PM fragalot: in that case the 1052 is enough :-)
03:10 PM tiwake: I don't know enough to do such a thing...
03:10 PM tiwake: though that might change in the future too
03:11 PM fragalot: There are other cheap scopes on the market like Siglent or Rohde & Schwarz that are usable for troubleshooting.. Just make sure that you don't get a portable piece of junk with a bandwidth below 50Mhz
03:11 PM tiwake: yeah, I never have liked those
03:12 PM tiwake: I think snapon has one such model
03:12 PM tiwake: screw that
03:12 PM fragalot: :P
03:13 PM tiwake: I just want to build machines to make money for me
03:13 PM XXCoder: heh such can be very cheap
03:13 PM XXCoder: kits like 11 bucks usd?
03:14 PM fragalot: depending on how rushed you are, you can just start building, and when you run into a problem where you have fast switching signals you want to check, THEN buy a scope
03:14 PM tiwake: kit for what?
03:14 PM fragalot: as said previously, it's an optional tool :-)
03:14 PM tiwake: fragalot: I'm starting the process of buying a house this month
03:15 PM fragalot: so no rush, haha
03:15 PM tiwake: there is no rush for anything else
03:15 PM XXCoder: oh theres 8 bucks signal generator lol
03:15 PM XXCoder: https://de.aliexpress.com/item/XR2206-Funktion-Signal-Generator-DIY-Kit-Sinus-Dreieck-Quadrat-Welle-1-HZ-1-MHZ-DDS/32837489159.html
03:17 PM XXCoder: 20 khz lol https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DSO138-2-4-TFT-Digital-Oscilloscope-Kit-DIY-200KHz-Tester-1Msps-Bandwidth-Probe-Electronic-Production-Suite/32740256548.html
03:17 PM XXCoder: cheap
03:17 PM fragalot: useless
03:17 PM XXCoder: but useless for you I guess
03:17 PM fragalot: useless for anything
03:17 PM XXCoder: theres 1 mhz one still low
03:17 PM fragalot: anything below 20Mhz is garbage, 50Mhz is the bottom end of the spectrum today.
03:18 PM tiwake: fragalot: what are digital channels?
03:18 PM XXCoder: it being useless really depends on what use its for
03:18 PM tiwake: in context of oscilloscopes
03:19 PM fragalot: tiwake: on/off signals only
03:19 PM XXCoder: pc usb oscilloscope 20 mhz 56 bucks lol
03:19 PM fragalot: be aware that most oscilloscopes that have both digital and analog signals in one, do not guarantee that they are 'aligned'
03:19 PM XXCoder: whats difference between 20mhz and 48 mhz sampling rate?
03:20 PM fragalot: eg; if you hook up the same signal to an analog probe, and a digital probe, the event will not show up at the same timestamp
03:20 PM fragalot: XXCoder: about 28Mhz.
03:21 PM gloops: strange sky..kind of a red dusty martian sunset..
03:21 PM gloops: omens!
03:27 PM tiwake: I hope to start on the project early next year
03:59 PM syyl: making delrin parts all day :D
03:59 PM syyl: http://gtwr.de/div/filmomat10x.jpg
03:59 PM syyl: huuuuge pile of chips...
04:01 PM Tom_L: what for?
04:01 PM gloops: what machines syyl - diy ones?
04:01 PM syyl: lathe and isel cnc router ;)
04:01 PM syyl: they go in a film developer machine
04:02 PM gloops: ahh like developing drums
04:02 PM syyl: the film-o-mat
04:02 PM XXCoder: dang
04:03 PM gloops: there is a strong film photography cult atm
04:03 PM syyl: for sure
04:04 PM gloops: unfortunately most films were never viable to produce for amateur photographers, they only used the offcuts from the cinema rolls for that
04:07 PM gloops: any cash in this job then syyl?
04:07 PM syyl: jep
04:07 PM syyl: recurring job, and i did a good quote on them
04:07 PM gloops: hey thats ok then
04:07 PM XXCoder: yeah maybe earn bit less money per part, but overall lot more money
04:08 PM Tom_L: how much shrinkage do you get machining delrin?
04:08 PM XXCoder: theres few "infinity parts" at work, and they make lots money
04:08 PM syyl: not much, i basicaly machine it to nominal dimension
04:08 PM syyl: and it doesnt move
04:08 PM Tom_L: coolant?
04:09 PM XXCoder: so not much internal stresses then
04:09 PM syyl: nope, dry - on the lathe with polished carbide inserts, on the router with a very long 4mm ball endmill
04:09 PM syyl: i would prefer a larger tool with a bit more stiffness, but the geometry does not allow for that.
04:10 PM gloops: worth doing a rough out with large diameter - then finish with small one?
04:11 PM syyl: not realy, the heavy roughing is done on the lathe anyway :D
04:20 PM Deejay: gn8
04:20 PM gloops: well, still practising the modelling here https://ibb.co/hmw1uy
04:38 PM gloops: i see those 2 mysterious deaths today in the UK were Novichok again
05:32 PM JT-Mobile is now known as JT-ftworth
05:32 PM JT-ftworth: hey
05:32 PM infornography: ello
05:42 PM russtuff: should linuxcnc have some sort of audio driver or is that something I have to install manually? i'm trying to listen to music in the shop (not while machining) but get no audio and i can't find a place to mess with audio settings.
05:44 PM infornography: imma tell your boss
05:45 PM RealUnix28200: Hello
05:46 PM gloops: probably need the right driver?
05:46 PM gloops: for your sound card
05:57 PM gloops: may help russtuff https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrJ6iSGUD1bkkIAtySe3olQ?p=where+are+debian+wheezy+sound+controls&hsimp=yhs-linuxmint&hspart=ddc&type=__alt__ddc_linuxmint_com&fr=yhs-ddc-linuxmint&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Ai%2Cm%3Apivot#id=2&vid=63f64345f4d99b8f8f7d4bb61ce840e2&action=view
05:57 PM gloops: no scrub that
05:58 PM gloops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzCTF66Od8U
06:25 PM andypugh: RealUnix28200: You have a question?
06:40 PM grotius: hi please monitor network traffic
06:42 PM infornography: Anyone have an experience with parallel port ad on cards? PCI or PCI-e?
06:42 PM grotius: I am thinking about that
06:43 PM grotius: Specially for FPGA add on chips
06:44 PM grotius: We can call the sunix factory in china
06:45 PM JT-Mobile: russtuff, I use the VLC player in linux
06:47 PM pcw_home: Yeah all the normal sound drivers are included with the bas OS so sound is normally not an issue
06:47 PM pcw_home: s/bas/base/
06:50 PM grotius: Hi, you know me. I am testing kali on different hard drive, first issue was login screen. I solved with user : root
07:02 PM grotius: Network monitoring looks good tonight.
07:11 PM andypugh: OK, so here I am installing Windows XP. Wierd.
07:11 PM XXCoder: yay now, thats the experence! ;)
07:12 PM andypugh: (Someone on the forum wants to replace an old XP DNC system, I am trying to figure out the data format)
07:14 PM gector: anyone use linuxcnc for engraving circuit boards?
07:14 PM XXCoder: oh thats extra fun heh
07:15 PM XXCoder: old obsetete systems and data formats
07:15 PM XXCoder: gector: sure
07:15 PM andypugh: gector: It has certainly been done by many people.
07:15 PM XXCoder: not me but others talked about that here
07:15 PM gector: I really need some kind of height control
07:15 PM gector: so it does a consitant cut
07:15 PM gector: any way to hook into the THC component?
07:16 PM gector: *consistent
07:16 PM andypugh: gector: But bear in mind that 10 double-sided boards with resist, screen print and plating is $5 and 10 days to your door from CHina.
07:16 PM gector: I'm aware
07:17 PM gector: this is gonna be useful for other stuff besides circuit engraving too
07:17 PM gector: and I already have everything, just taking up room
07:17 PM andypugh: gector: I don’t think that there is anything obvious to use as a height reference? Plasma can use arc voltage.
07:17 PM gector: I'm most concerned about the software side of things, I can setup something with an arduino if I know what kind of signal in the software wants
07:18 PM gector: how does the arc voltage as a height reference work?
07:18 PM andypugh: Anything an Arduino can do you can do in HAL.
07:18 PM gector: oh?
07:19 PM JT-Mobile: gector, have you looked at the THCAD card?
07:19 PM gector: the Mesa ones?
07:19 PM gector: otherwise no
07:19 PM andypugh: gector: Either with built-in components or by writing your own in C (just like on an Arduino): http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/hal/comp.html
07:21 PM gector: how does the control signal translate to a desired Z height? Does it send an absolute position, like Z-0.2, or just tell it to go up/down until it's at the right spot?
07:22 PM andypugh: Either, or both
07:22 PM gector: that's up to me?
07:22 PM andypugh: Yes
07:22 PM JT-Mobile: gector, yes the mesa card
07:22 PM gector: The mesa card can be used for non plasma projects?
07:22 PM JT-Mobile: it sends a pulse stream that is fed into an encoder component
07:23 PM XXCoder: mesa can be used for cnc anything I think
07:23 PM JT-Mobile: it does not know what your doing
07:23 PM gector: encoder component is in HAL? And is already recognized by vanilla linuxcnc?
07:23 PM gector: JT-Mobile
07:23 PM JT-Mobile: yes
07:24 PM JT-Mobile: at first i used the parallel port with the THCAD
07:25 PM gector: so it goes THCAD -> input pin of parallel port -> HAL encoder?
07:25 PM JT-Mobile: aye
07:26 PM gector: interesting
07:27 PM gector: I actually have been building a plasma table for my Dad, and that's definitely the part I need I think
07:28 PM JT-Mobile: when I first built my plasma table I did not have any THC I just made sure the part was level
07:28 PM andypugh: gector: But I don’t think that the THCAD will be able to detect your PCB milling depth
07:28 PM JT-Mobile: I made a floating torch holder with a micro switch so I could touch off for each cut
07:28 PM gector: JT-Mobile: we have that already, it's on the Z axis
07:29 PM gector: torch mounts to a carriage with the switch on it, which is then mounted to the actual Z axis
07:29 PM JT-Mobile: THCAD for PCB depth?
07:29 PM gector: andypugh: do you think I could emulate it with an arduino?
07:29 PM andypugh: No
07:29 PM JT-Mobile: gector, same as mine
07:30 PM andypugh: Unless your Arduino can output 300V proprtional to PCB depth
07:30 PM gector: Yeah my main project rn is trying to setup an old engraver as a PCB milling tool
07:30 PM gector: wait it _output_ 300V?
07:30 PM JT-Mobile: http://gnipsel.com/shop/plasma/z-axis-01.xhtml
07:30 PM andypugh: How do you propse to measure the depth?
07:30 PM gector: there are sensors to measure distance
07:30 PM gector: or I could touch off in a grid
07:30 PM gector: and apply some kind of weird transform
07:31 PM gector: JT-Mobile: looks similar to ours
07:31 PM JT-Mobile: doesn't the grid probe ngc file do that?
07:31 PM andypugh: There was an attempt to make a system thet probed the surface and appplied an offset. Using an STL file generated from the probe mesh
07:31 PM gector: https://www.autoleveller.co.uk/
07:32 PM gector: there's a grid probe ngc file?
07:32 PM JT-Mobile: IIRC yes
07:32 PM JT-Mobile: I'm on a windoze laptop so I can't look
07:33 PM gector: "This program repeatedly probes in a regular XY grid and writes the probed location to the file probe-results.txt in the same directory as the .ini file."
07:33 PM gector: one I found says it just saves it to a file
07:33 PM andypugh: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ProbeKins
07:34 PM gector: what is a trivkins module
07:34 PM andypugh: (Never worked very well at the time, might work perfectly with the External-Offsets branch.
07:34 PM andypugh: trivkins maps XYZ to joints 0,1,2
07:35 PM andypugh: It’s relevant to most cartesian machines, but no good for robots etc
07:35 PM gector: joints?
07:35 PM andypugh: slides, pivots
07:37 PM andypugh: Time to sleep
07:37 PM gector: aw, gnight
07:37 PM JT-Mobile: night
07:38 PM gector: so I guess I'll try using grid probe + that module he mentioned
07:38 PM gector: probably gonna need grid probe setup regardless
07:39 PM JT-Mobile: trivkins is the normal one you use with a cartesian machine
07:40 PM gector: I'm gonna need at least 1 input pin setup anyway, I'm gonna work on that
08:04 PM gector: *sigh* anyone know how to do inputs on the TB6560 3 axis driver
08:12 PM Kevin`: gector: there's more than one schematic, unfortunately, unless you are using the bare chip. you are essentially driving an led, be aware of minimum on-time to saturate the receiver on infrequent pulses
08:13 PM gector: driving an LED?
08:13 PM gector: like an opto-coupler?
08:13 PM Kevin`: yes
08:13 PM gector: I don't even see any way of doing that though
08:13 PM gector: I don't understand the manual either
08:14 PM Kevin`: such drivers normally have a pair of connections each for step and direction
08:14 PM Kevin`: set direction, pulse step
08:15 PM gector: this is the one I have http://www.osservatoriobassano.org/TCS2015/3%20Axis%20TB6560%203.5A%20Stepper%20Motor%20Driver%20Board%20Manual.pdf
08:16 PM gector: I have a feeling you're talking about the simple single axis boards Kevin`
08:19 PM Kevin`: it lists the pins pretty clearly, but you'll likely want to measure them with a meter to determine if they are common cathode or common anode
08:20 PM Kevin`: there's also a picture of configuration presumably indicating they are active low though
08:20 PM gector: are we talking about the same thing? I mean how to hook up to the input pins of the parallel port through the driver board. Driver board -> Parallel port -> Limits-N-stuff
08:21 PM Kevin`: probably not, I thought you meant the inputs to the tb6560 stepper driver
08:23 PM gector: that's what I thought
08:23 PM gector: sorry for being unclear
08:26 PM Kevin`: it looks like they are on pins 10,11,12,13. it's confusing about it but those *are* inputs on pc, and they are referenced in multiple locations in the document
08:30 PM gector: is it a smart idea to apply 5v to PIN 10 to make sure it's pointing to probe_in? I think I found how to monitor inputs and I found the probe one (it's TRUE), I just need to toggle that pin somehow and see if the HAL meter says it's FALSE
08:30 PM gector: or ground that pin, since it appears to already have 5V on it
08:31 PM gector: ground via resistor probably
08:31 PM Kevin`: no. there *should* be an optical isolator on that intput, making it one-way. if you need to apply a pullup/down voltage to an output, do so with a resistor
08:32 PM gector: aye, I'll see if that works
08:32 PM Kevin`: I would expect the pin to have it's own internal pullup or be push/pull, especially if you measure 5v already
08:32 PM Kevin`: probulate the input pin itself first IMO
08:33 PM Kevin`: the other side of it, that is
08:33 PM gector: if you mean unplug the parallel cable and work with that directly, that's what I'm doing
08:33 PM gector: ayy, that works
08:34 PM gector: resistor to ground makes that input go FALSE in the software
08:34 PM Kevin`: no, I mean apply a signal to the connector for inputs rather than the parallel port on the board
08:34 PM Kevin`: yay
08:34 PM gector: (that's what I meant)
08:35 PM gector: using the continuity testinger on my mutlimeter doesn't appear to yield anything on the driver actually attached to pin 10 annoyingly
08:36 PM Kevin`: does your meter have a seperate diode test mode?
08:36 PM gector: ah hold on
08:36 PM gector: yes it does
08:36 PM gector: and I think I forgot to measure the mirror
08:37 PM Kevin`: resistance mode and presumably continuitity in some cases usually uses a low voltage to *avoid* triggering junctions
08:38 PM gector: I found the opto-isolater attached to pin 10
08:40 PM gector: and the pin on the driver board attached to other side.
08:40 PM gector: thanks
08:59 PM gector: got the grid probe file working
09:24 PM gector: but probekins seems have fallen off the face of the earth
09:40 PM russtuff_: thanks for the youtube video link. it didn't workf for me but i'll keep working on it.
11:11 PM justan0theruser is now known as justanotheruser