#linuxcnc Logs
Jul 02 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:00 AM Laminae: Hey amigos, could i get some feedback on a design i whipped up for an extrusion bed for my open builds cbeam xl cnc router mod?
12:03 AM jesseg: always you can try
12:03 AM Laminae: Take a peek https://a360.co/2tLDFvU
12:03 AM XXCoder: there is no try. only do, or don't do
12:03 AM Laminae: I think i need some center reinforcement but i have tons of oddball extrusions laying around and i thought i'd just use one of those
12:03 AM Laminae: These are the parts https://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/110302261820/?ProductCode=HFSQN4-15250-900
12:03 AM Laminae: https://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/221005478346/?ProductCode=AFEL-2005-500&curSearch=%7b%22field%22%3a%22%40search%22%2c%22seriesCode%22%3a%22221005478346%22%2c%22innerCode%22%3a%22%22%2c%22sort%22%3a1%2c%22specSortFlag%22%3a0%2c%22allSpecFlag%22%3a0%2c%22page%22%3a1%2c%22pageSize%22%3a%2260%22%2c%2200000368602%22%3a%22500%22%2c%22cadType%22%3a%222%22%2c%22fixedInfo%22%3a%22MDM000039319232210054783461593711230%7c31%22%7d&Tab=code
12:03 AM Laminae: sweet jesus that is a url
12:03 AM XXCoder: using extusions as bed
12:03 AM Laminae: Yep, 15x250
12:04 AM jesseg: Maybe it's the rise and the fall of the top raman empire, url coded
12:04 AM Laminae: final bed dimension is 500mm x 1000mm
12:04 AM Laminae: 900mm*
12:05 AM Laminae: This is the frame i'm slapping it on https://openbuildspartstore.com/openbuilds-c-beam-machine-xlarge/
12:06 AM Laminae: Coder, aren't you in #Reprap?
12:24 AM hazzy-lab: lol jesseg
12:27 AM fragalot: Laminae: any reason why you're sticking to 15mm thick bed rails, rather than something more substantial?
12:27 AM fragalot: oh well I timed that right didn't I
12:50 AM CaptHindsight: mebe he be lernin by doin
12:50 AM CaptHindsight: when it don't work, he'll be a wonderin why
12:51 AM CaptHindsight: then mebe he done learn somthin then
12:54 AM CaptHindsight: plues he be usin MDF to be supportin the bed rails
12:54 AM CaptHindsight: so it be a might stiffen than nothin
12:56 AM XXCoder: dunno
12:56 AM XXCoder: as long as mdf is sealed
12:56 AM CaptHindsight: laminae: 5mm aluminum angle is pretty light
12:57 AM CaptHindsight: I rekin that you kin build it and see what happens
12:57 AM CaptHindsight: then when you be seein what it don't be doin right, yah kins fix it
12:58 AM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: moisture adds mass :)
12:59 AM XXCoder: and brittleness heh
01:08 AM laminae: Yeah, that's kind of my concern too, i'm hoping that the plates paired with a 20x20 rail in the center would be a enough for rigidity, but i ordsred them now anyway so i guess i'm going to make it work one way or the other now haha
01:10 AM XXCoder: it really depends on your usercase
01:10 AM XXCoder: it cuts metal?
01:13 AM * Loetmichel_ just drove the BMW convertible with open canopy to the company... and with wet hair... WHAT a hair knot now... like felt ;)
01:19 AM laminae: primarily plastics/wood
01:19 AM laminae: perhaps thin 6061 in a pinch
01:21 AM RyanS: some people pay a lot of money to have felt on their heat
01:23 AM RyanS: felt hair out of shape; just steam it and bash it into a fedora
01:23 AM Loetmichel: RyanS: sounds like a plan... a bit short for that these days though.
01:23 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17124&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
01:24 AM Loetmichel: ... could have worked 20 years ago... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2812&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
01:24 AM Loetmichel: :-)
01:27 AM RyanS: looks like you're welding a Christmas tree
02:26 AM Snoozer77: Hi.
02:31 AM Deejay: moin
02:32 AM Loetmichel: RyanS: i did. (chinese xmas decoration for a big german mall, falling apart after 5 years of use) But the pic was to notice the near ass-long hair i had back then
04:22 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
04:23 AM IchGucksLive: prity warm outside
04:23 AM IchGucksLive: full sun alday long
04:23 AM IchGucksLive: harvesting beer brewing weet
04:25 AM IchGucksLive: laminae, why dident you go for a complete set
04:28 AM RyanS: can't find DM856 in Australia but they have the new EM542S http://oceancontrols.com.au/SMC-053.html
04:31 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, not needed
04:31 AM IchGucksLive: what about the dm556
04:32 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, for you the best joice
04:33 AM RyanS: DM556 is $160, EM542S $92 em556 $117
04:35 AM IchGucksLive: i see 53AU$ on DM 556
04:35 AM IchGucksLive: its only the T version as i prefer the D
04:36 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-Stepper-Driver-1-8-5-6A-20-50VDC-For-Nema-23-24-34-Stepper-STEPPERONLINE/172888126569
04:36 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, as we taked about best choie for you to go
04:37 AM RyanS: i thought the DM556T was the fake one?
04:37 AM IchGucksLive: yes it is
04:38 AM IchGucksLive: but it is better then the 542T
04:38 AM IchGucksLive: and cheeper thne the 860H
04:38 AM RyanS: I don't really need rs232 of the DM556 anyway
04:39 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, best at 232rs is you see your real need
04:39 AM IchGucksLive: and can adjust the parameters like we do on a pid cicle
04:39 AM IchGucksLive: BUT as i said ALL Drivers will do it for you
04:40 AM IchGucksLive: even the tb6600
04:40 AM IchGucksLive: will ofcause retch your numbers
04:41 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, this is my elektronics on a small plasma 500x500 http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/3achs_elek.jpg
04:43 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, and ofcause nothing is lost you only change a Driver Standard OUT
04:43 AM IchGucksLive: and you are upgreaded
04:45 AM RyanS: other option is DM556 from daeman cnc would cost $140 including shipping and they sell chainflex by the meter. ( can only get 25m roll locally)
04:45 AM IchGucksLive: im off meal is ready
04:46 AM RyanS: ok
04:46 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, dont mess up on the Drivers go cheep it will retch your need
04:46 AM IchGucksLive: take the DM860T if you want more Flex
04:47 AM RyanS: fair enough
04:47 AM IchGucksLive: i know the decicion is hard
04:47 AM IchGucksLive: but you got a local dealer
04:47 AM IchGucksLive: use it
04:47 AM IchGucksLive: all within 5days shipment
04:48 AM IchGucksLive: its cheep and it will work
04:48 AM RyanS: yeah save some money
04:48 AM IchGucksLive: BYE
05:59 AM jthornton: morning
06:01 AM miss0r: mornin
06:45 AM Loetmichel: maaan, i sure have way to much power today... how did i manage THAT? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17152&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
07:04 AM holzjunkie_shop: hy @all
07:11 AM holzjunkie_shop: michel are you here ???
07:15 AM Loetmichel: yes
07:16 AM Loetmichel: [13:45] <Loetmichel> maaan, i sure have way to much power today... how did i manage THAT? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17152&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
07:16 AM Loetmichel: [14:03] * holzjunkie_shop (~Thunderbi@dyndsl-037-138-049-113.ewe-ip-backbone.de) has joined #linuxcnc
07:16 AM Loetmichel: as you can see here ;)
07:25 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:29 AM gloops: just cut a bit of ash log up i cut 18 months - the wood is as hard as metal
07:29 AM gloops: cut down 18 months ago
07:32 AM Loetmichel: try oak timbers that sat for 4 centurys in a timberframe house in germany, where the squares between the timbers are filled with a mix of straw and clay... thats like its fossilized and pure stone... i dulled carbide tools on that
07:34 AM gloops: well, i was only trying it to see if it was dry enough, bandsaw blade didnt like it at all, very slow going, little slices about 10mm thick - cant bend them by hand
07:37 AM miss0r: oak is some good stuff
07:37 AM miss0r: I have 4 nice'n thick planks sitting in my shed, waiting for me to get my act together and make a new dining room table with it
07:38 AM miss0r: I think they are 250x55x2300
07:38 AM gloops: £20 a metre here
07:38 AM gloops: more maybe
07:38 AM miss0r: Yeah, I live close to a sawmill, and I repair their equipment on a regular basis.
07:39 AM miss0r: Needless to say, I get some good prices
07:39 AM miss0r: You know why oak is so expensive?
07:39 AM miss0r: good oak planks, that is
07:39 AM gloops: ash is well known for being strong, use for tool handles and so on - would have to travel a bit to find it to buy
07:40 AM gloops: miss0r why is that?
07:40 AM miss0r: Its because of the recesses in the wood, that basically makes or breaks a good plank. Theres alot of that in oak, and to get 'good quality' planks they sort those with holes out. so theres alot of waste involved
07:41 AM RyanS: omg Australia has a lapp cable store that's reasonably priced and sells by the meter.. miracle
07:41 AM miss0r: RyanS: what?! reasonably prices lapp cable store? Oxymoron of the day
07:41 AM gloops: there arent many places near me that stock oak - at a reasonable price anyway, the ones that do stock mostly french oak
07:43 AM miss0r: gloops: Well, back in the day, alot of danish kinds ordered Oak woods to be planted, so they could make more war ships, resulting in an abondance(spell) of oak wood. funny thing about oak, they grow so slowly that most of what was planted for the warship industry never made it into ships
07:43 AM RyanS: 7$ a meter when you only need 6m of dragchain cable is ok
07:44 AM miss0r: wtf is dragchain cable?
07:44 AM RyanS: but just the standard CY cable might be ok
07:45 AM miss0r: Yeah. That is one of the advantages of dragchains. Unless you are talking about a dragchain that has a radius smaller than the recommended dynamic bend radius of the cable & it does so at a high frequenzy, regular CY will do plenty good
07:46 AM RyanS: designed for the plastic cnc cable chain conduit (trunking)
07:47 AM miss0r: as long as you don't get PUR cables for use in dragchains
07:47 AM RyanS: I guess it's for servo applications
07:47 AM miss0r: PUR cables are a bitch to work with, and no reason to use it inside dragchains.
07:47 AM miss0r: but they are indeed very flexible
07:48 AM miss0r: bleh. back to gardening.
07:53 AM Loetmichel: miss0r: dragchain cable is cable thats specced for millions of movements over its lifetime
07:54 AM Loetmichel: movements= bending cycles over its whole length
08:32 AM gloops: @SkyNews
08:32 AM gloops: The UK is set to bask in sun for a further four weeks ☀️🕶️
08:32 AM gloops: noooo!
09:15 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
09:15 AM IchGucksLive: 32deg outside
09:15 AM IchGucksLive: im done for today
09:15 AM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel, 1A braugerste geerntet
09:16 AM IchGucksLive: miss0r, use oelflex 110
09:16 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, oelflex 110 4x0,75mm²
09:17 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, no soldering no plugs
09:22 AM IchGucksLive: im off till later
09:26 AM gloops: Ichs - the heat is here for another 4 weeks
09:32 AM jdh: isn't that what summer is all about?
09:32 AM jdh: 37C and 97% humidity
09:35 AM gloops: not here
09:37 AM gloops: they dont work in this heat in spain, everybody goes to bed in the afternoon, they only work mornings and nights
10:30 AM Deejay: re
10:32 AM hazzy-lab: wb
10:53 AM gloops: wow, they found those boys alive in thailand cave
11:01 AM fragalot: Hey
11:32 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
11:43 AM IchGucksLive: today quiet here
12:00 PM IchGucksLive: hi CubicleNate
12:01 PM IchGucksLive: here are the cnc freeks
12:01 PM CubicleNate: Greetings
12:01 PM CubicleNate: I haven't had the privilege of working with a CNC in many, many years
12:01 PM IchGucksLive: i got more then one every day
12:02 PM IchGucksLive: CubicleNate, on coordinates the "world runs"
12:02 PM IchGucksLive: and not only the world
12:03 PM IchGucksLive: CubicleNate, were are you from continant
12:03 PM CubicleNate: USA, Michigan,
12:03 PM CubicleNate: My family migrated from Germany in the 40s and 50s
12:03 PM IchGucksLive: lots of peolple heree are at your place
12:04 PM IchGucksLive: CubicleNate, 80% did do that
12:04 PM IchGucksLive: 80% of the USA
12:04 PM IchGucksLive: EVEN Trump is from germany
12:04 PM IchGucksLive: and the Rest of its family from RUS
12:05 PM IchGucksLive: CubicleNate, still on
12:07 PM CubicleNate: Many of my older relatives have passed as of recent so most of us left were born here.
12:07 PM CubicleNate: I named my son, Fritz, after my father. :)
12:07 PM IchGucksLive: CubicleNate, this channel is logd for refew of the written yust type log
12:08 PM IchGucksLive: CubicleNate, the bot will direct you to the last day
12:12 PM IchGucksLive: im off for today its late in germany Gn8 till tomorrow
12:17 PM CubicleNate: Have a good night. I will have more questions for you tomorrow
12:40 PM fragalot: Hey
12:43 PM gloops: belgium v japan soon
12:44 PM Tom_L: gloops, how long were they in the cave
12:44 PM gloops: 10 days i think Tom_L - apparently all are alive
12:45 PM fragalot: gloops: that'd explain all the belgian flag colored tents outside, lol
12:48 PM gloops: should beat japan
01:26 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.ecmweb.com/design/mating-new-variable-frequency-drives-existing-motors
01:57 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/_pjbwFM1LM4?t=4m6s who makes this threading adapter for your benchtop? :)
01:58 PM gregcnc: benchtop thread roll?
01:59 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, I'm tired of having to wait several minutes to make one by hand
02:05 PM gloops: oh dear..Japan have scored
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: a year of upsets
02:06 PM gloops: yes it is turning out like that
02:09 PM gloops: 'British cave diver reaches boys trapped in Thailand cave'
02:09 PM gloops: cave diving is something that never really appealed to me..
02:09 PM gloops: oh dear Japan 2...
02:13 PM Tom_L: you spoke too soon
02:16 PM CaptHindsight: cave or soccer?
02:16 PM Tom_L: socker
02:16 PM gloops: japan are getting better at sport all the time, very disciplined team
02:17 PM CaptHindsight: getting taller overall as well
02:18 PM gloops: yes theyve grown 14 inches
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: I bet after investigating they will find Russian involvement behind all the game upsets
02:23 PM CaptHindsight: will probably destabilize FIFA
02:24 PM jdh: I love cave diving
02:24 PM XXCoder: talking about russia, British is finding out they had election inference from russia
02:24 PM Tom_L: jdh, how do you keep track of where you're at
02:25 PM jdh: line with directional markers
02:26 PM Tom_L: do they mark distance also for time or do you rely on your watch
02:26 PM jdh: percent of gas mainly
02:27 PM jdh: but, there are sometimes distance markers
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: Russia's main export is destabilization
02:28 PM jdh: us too.
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, but you can't say that
02:30 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, it's about time to dust off the cannon...
02:31 PM gloops: german govmt seems to have collapsed today
02:31 PM XXCoder: huh
02:31 PM gloops: btw Belgium are back 2-2
02:31 PM Tom_L: gotta save face
02:33 PM gloops: XXCoder Merkels coalition partner appears to have resigned
02:36 PM XXCoder: hmm ok
02:37 PM miss0r: Goodevening
02:38 PM miss0r: anyone up to anything interresting?
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: still a good chance for either team to win
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: miss0r: define interesting
02:41 PM miss0r: I'm thinking some cool project os sorts
02:41 PM gloops: too hot to do anything
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: down to the low 80's today
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: last 5 minutes of the game then off
02:43 PM miss0r: damn. Everything is overheating around here :D We're a few guys going camping in sweden in two weeks. It seems we are not going to able to light a camp fire at any time...
02:44 PM gloops: yeah getting pretty bad for fires
02:52 PM gloops: belgium - dying seconds
02:52 PM gloops: cruel!
02:54 PM XXCoder: was fire disallowed miss0r ? or just too hot to?
02:55 PM miss0r: XXCoder: I'm having a hard time finding out. Looking at the swedish weather service website, all of sweden is now or will soon be forest fire class 5E, which is the highest level of risk.
02:55 PM miss0r: Where I live, in Denmark, we are not allowed to light a fire on public spaces at the moment. But i think the swedish law does not allow for such a prohibitation. But I can't figure out where to read about that in detail
02:55 PM XXCoder: I was thinking if its not regulations related you could do small cone of sticks burning to roast marashmallows and such
02:56 PM XXCoder: only little heat
02:57 PM miss0r: I'm not worried about generating heat to an extend, where it would be uncomfortable for us to be around. The thing is, our menu is quite reliant on weather we can have a fire or not :)
02:57 PM miss0r: if not, we are going to have some sad sad food for the duration of the trip
02:57 PM nallar is now known as Ross
02:57 PM SpeedEvil: miss0r: flameless ration heaters exist.
02:57 PM SpeedEvil: And similar.
02:57 PM miss0r: sure
02:57 PM SpeedEvil: Also - 'open fire' or not. Enclosed gas stoves, for example.
02:58 PM miss0r: its just convinient to light a bonfire, to cook for 8 people
02:58 PM gloops: make one of those gas bottle stoves
02:58 PM miss0r: SpeedEvil: Theres some debate weather enclosed gass stoves qualifies or not
02:58 PM XXCoder: is cooking candles allowed in fire risk areas I guess it counts as fire
02:58 PM gloops: but yeah, not quite the same for camping
02:58 PM miss0r: I have two, actualy. But cooking for 8 takes its sweet time on a small gas stove
02:59 PM miss0r: Around here, you need to look over your shoulder twice before using an 'open flame' to light a cigarette
03:00 PM miss0r: Apparently this is the dryest juni in record 'round here
03:00 PM miss0r: june*
03:00 PM miss0r: since that stuff started being measured in 1874
03:01 PM Rab: miss0r, IIRC you mentioned a preference against PUR cable in e-chain. Can you expand on that?
03:02 PM miss0r: Rab: Sure; its overkill
03:03 PM Rab: miss0r, but let's say I had some floating around. There's not a mechanical reason against it?
03:03 PM XXCoder: miss0r: can always make solar oven lol
03:03 PM miss0r: Rab: not at all. PUR is excellent for alot of things. It is just not funny to work with.
03:04 PM Rab: miss0r, I see.
03:04 PM miss0r: XXCoder: We were planning to bring a small pig in frozen condition, so that on the second day on our trip, we could build a fire, and roast it most of the day. That plan is going down the drain
03:06 PM Rab: miss0r, fresnel lens sous vide?
03:06 PM gregcnc: just put it out in the sun?
03:06 PM miss0r: Rab: PUR is ment for environments where high dynamic values are needed. But the cable chain, if the right one is choosen, does not exceed the dynamic radius limitations on the cables used.
03:06 PM gregcnc: ahem, "that plan is going up in smoke"
03:06 PM miss0r: hehe. all valid ideas. But for the time being I am just a big bummed out by it.
03:07 PM miss0r: gregcnc: lets hope not :P
03:07 PM gregcnc: what's left then a lot of wihiskey?
03:07 PM miss0r: beans, bacon(raw) & whiskey
03:07 PM Rab: miss0r, I deal with PUR cable for high-vibration environments, so I have a stock of harness pulls which are in pretty good shape that I was planning to use.
03:08 PM miss0r: Rab: I see nothing wrong with that. Earlier I was just stating, that there would be no reason to go out and spend money on the premium PUR cable, if one was planning to use a cable chain
03:08 PM Rab: FWIW I've had good results stripping PUR insulation with cheap rotating coax strippers, although they have to be dialed in exactly.
03:09 PM miss0r: Unless, of course, as you say: a high vibration environment. But that would rule out the cable chain as well :)
03:09 PM Rab: miss0r, makes sense.
03:09 PM miss0r: yeah, it is absolutly doable :] but given the choice, wouldn't you rather spend less money and strip insulation off some CY instead?
03:10 PM miss0r: I'll call it a night. See you around
03:11 PM miss0r: Rab: Just one thing before I leave, what does FWIW stand for?
03:12 PM miss0r: googled it: 'For What It's Worth'. Got it.
03:12 PM miss0r: Goodnight
03:12 PM Rab: ^^
03:12 PM * miss0r is off
03:19 PM XXCoder: the rockers. ;)
04:16 PM Deejay: gn8
05:11 PM gloops: all quiet on the western front
05:11 PM flyback- is now known as flyback
05:27 PM lcvette_: Tom_L: is this the right ts555 timer? TS555CDT
05:27 PM lcvette_: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/stmicroelectronics/TS555CDT/497-3043-1-ND/634883
05:27 PM flyback: * the national weather service has issues a "you go to hell! ..........................you go to hell and you die!!!!!"..............for your area
05:28 PM lcvette_: that is a bit hostile
05:33 PM gloops: youll be ok if you wear a hat flyback
06:38 PM lcvette_: Tom_L, Fragalot, Jesseg, how is this version? https://easyeda.com/editor#id=64174bddc8a843009ed072cba6df01f3
06:43 PM lcvette_: https://imgur.com/uhTllJQ
06:43 PM lcvette_: image link in case the easyeda link doesn
06:43 PM lcvette_: t work
06:44 PM renesis: unf
06:44 PM renesis: flow goes left to right, up to down!
06:44 PM renesis: thats a pfet?
06:47 PM renesis: if pin 1 is LED power, i think Q1 is supposed to be a pfet, datasheet and symbol looks like nfet
06:51 PM renesis: also you should put more ground symbols, it will look more sex
06:52 PM lcvette_: i had more ground symbols
06:53 PM lcvette_: https://i.imgur.com/sX8Xx6B.jpg
06:54 PM jesseg: Lcvette, I'm taking off here but is that a P-Channel fet or an N-Channel fet?
06:55 PM lcvette_: was the number you gave me
06:55 PM lcvette_: wrong one?
06:56 PM jesseg: oh that's an N-Channel
06:56 PM renesis: needs to be low side then
06:56 PM renesis: well
06:56 PM jesseg: You want an N-Channel but you want to connect it differently
06:56 PM renesis: between the 39R resistors and ground
06:56 PM lcvette_: flip it?
06:56 PM renesis: nono
06:57 PM renesis: well
06:57 PM renesis: yes also
06:57 PM lcvette_: ah ok
06:57 PM jesseg: Lcvette, here's how to use the mosfet: https://i.stack.imgur.com/ZK60L.png
06:57 PM renesis: S needs to be ground on a Nfet
06:57 PM renesis: but thats right way for a pfet, which you can use, but dont need to usually
06:57 PM jesseg: assuming the 555 pulls all the way to VDD :P
06:58 PM lcvette_: do i need to move the whole ts555 time to the ground side?
06:58 PM renesis: pfets are good for switching power supplies when you absolutely want the circuit to stay grounded
06:58 PM jesseg: anyway sorry gotta go
06:58 PM lcvette_: ok
06:58 PM renesis: i hate 555s
06:58 PM lcvette_: trying to kep it simple
06:58 PM lcvette_: i don't know how to program
06:58 PM renesis: on your circuit, the leds and resistors dont care if they float at high voltage when no current is flowing
06:59 PM lcvette_: im an oldie
06:59 PM renesis: but you will need a logic fet if the 555 is to run off the battery and its only like 4V
06:59 PM renesis: heheh, yeah to me its almost opposite
06:59 PM renesis: easy to throw an integer into a timer on a uC with internal RC oscillator
07:00 PM renesis: try to keep my analog hax to audio circuits
07:01 PM renesis: normal fets need like maybe 7 to 10 V to turn on completely
07:01 PM renesis: you can get logic fets will work fine with like 3v
07:01 PM lcvette_: https://imgur.com/a/c8kjs3W
07:01 PM renesis: last thing you have to worry about is the charge time
07:02 PM lcvette_: 3.7v batter
07:02 PM renesis: they charge up to 4.2v, but yeah you will need a logic fet
07:02 PM renesis: you need to flip the fet
07:02 PM lcvette_: so i have wrong fet?
07:02 PM renesis: so the source is ground
07:02 PM renesis: maybe sec
07:03 PM renesis: https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/irlml6244pbf.pdf?fileId=5546d462533600a4015356686fed261f
07:03 PM renesis: page 5, figure 10A, you want it to look like that
07:04 PM lcvette_: https://imgur.com/a/4TMxjnA
07:04 PM renesis: its electron flow, not standard flow, so 'Source' is ground, and it 'Drains' to the supply side
07:04 PM lcvette_: like so
07:04 PM renesis: the little arrow part points in on an Nfet and connects to the source
07:05 PM renesis: yes
07:05 PM renesis: what color LEDs are those?
07:05 PM lcvette_: nice
07:05 PM lcvette_: so you would do it without the ts555 huh?
07:05 PM lcvette_: IR
07:05 PM lcvette_: im trying to build a wireless probe
07:06 PM renesis: ooh, what is on pin1? just need more voltage but that should work
07:06 PM renesis: 555 is prob fine, i just dont use them
07:06 PM lcvette_: just trying to get it to make a certain frequency
07:06 PM renesis: sec, i am still looking for switching voltage
07:06 PM lcvette_: k
07:07 PM renesis: right, you might have to tweak resistance to get it close if you need accuracy, but they work
07:07 PM lcvette_: yeah thats what i was reading
07:08 PM lcvette_: i *think* the resistors i have should be the correct frequency i need
07:08 PM lcvette_: but will have to test
07:08 PM renesis: looks like it might be a logic fet, page 6 there is a Rds(on) versus gate voltage plot
07:09 PM renesis: pretty low R by 4V, not lowest but def on, like 0.025 ohms max
07:10 PM renesis: yeah page 3, fig 3, totally a logic fet, you should be good
07:10 PM lcvette_: sweet
07:10 PM lcvette_: not sure about pin 1
07:10 PM renesis: they only plot Vgs (voltage from gate to source) to 3.0V
07:10 PM lcvette_: just found it in a diagram online
07:11 PM renesis: well, you can look up a texas instruments application note, probably
07:13 PM renesis: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ne555.pdf
07:13 PM renesis: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm555.pdf
07:14 PM renesis: check your circuit versus the ones in there, read descriptions for timing info
07:14 PM lcvette_: ok
07:15 PM renesis: the only thing you might have a problem with, is if you are trying to switch the led very fast, the FET might not fully turn on fast enough, because it has gate capacitance that needs to charge up
07:15 PM renesis: if youre going for like, a slow visible blink, totally not a problem
07:17 PM lcvette_: hmmm
07:17 PM renesis: if youre trying to switch at like, 40 kHz, and the 555 circuit has a lot of resistance between the output and the fet input, maybe a problem
07:17 PM lcvette_: the frequency for ir is faster than that i think
07:17 PM renesis: because the resistance controlls how fast the gate capacitance charge and discharges
07:17 PM renesis: its fast but its not crazy fast
07:18 PM renesis: but right i think it might be above audio
07:18 PM lcvette_: i think 34khz
07:18 PM renesis: if its directly connected to the amplifier output, inside the 555, performance should be pretty good, but id have to look up 555 internals
07:18 PM renesis: yeah that sounds right
07:19 PM lcvette_: fet can't pulse that fast?
07:19 PM renesis: looks like output is an inverter gate on a 555, so should be low impedance push-pull, so should be pretty good performance.
07:20 PM renesis: it can but the drive has to be able to push current into and suck out the gate capacitance
07:20 PM renesis: the fastest stuff has low gate capacitance, and low impedance driver circuits
07:20 PM lcvette_: gotcha
07:21 PM lcvette_: TS555CDT
07:21 PM lcvette_: thats the one i was instructed to use for the 3.7v battery
07:22 PM renesis: yeah i think therye diff voltage specs and temp ratings, all pretty much same tho
07:22 PM lcvette_: ok
07:22 PM lcvette_: actually not certain about the cdt part but the ts555 part was what i was told
07:23 PM lcvette_: this is just what popped up in easyeda when i searched the library
07:23 PM lcvette_: lol
07:23 PM renesis: CDT is going to be the chip package, and how those are shipped, usually
07:23 PM andypugh: Anachronisms. 3D printed parts, 1936 lathe, 1962 tankard: https://photos.app.goo.gl/yrioxaEqM87w8e1L6
07:23 PM renesis: like, SOIC8 in tape on a reel, or some shit
07:23 PM lcvette_: gotcha
07:24 PM renesis: andypugh: fixture is printed?
07:24 PM lcvette_: so i should put all the individual ground symbols back on
07:24 PM renesis: thats a decent application for prints
07:24 PM andypugh: Yes
07:24 PM renesis: lcvette_: its a personal thing, ill do it either way depending on circuit
07:25 PM renesis: like, i think for yours, one ground for each subcircuit would be easier to read
07:25 PM renesis: like one for the batt manager stuff, one for the 555 stuff, one for the nfet and IR LEDs
07:25 PM andypugh: The oldest tankard I have here for a new glass bottom is 1922. I will work bak in time.
07:26 PM renesis: andypugh: youre just doing some finish work to attach to a base?
07:26 PM andypugh: The lathe-geeks probably know what the lathe is at first glance.
07:27 PM renesis: that shit looks like it happened before engineers had a sense of limited resource and before assembly lines
07:27 PM andypugh: renesis: No. They have a glass bottom. They are used in a student bar. Accidents happen. I need to machine out the soldered-in retaining ring, replace the glass and solder in a new ring
07:28 PM renesis: what kind of solder?
07:28 PM andypugh: renesis: The lathe? Yes. it was made in 1936. They made the first one in 1921. Mine is serial number 175. They were profitable.
07:28 PM renesis: is the glass bottom visible when in use? if not i would be annoyed
07:29 PM Rab: andypugh, the 3D printed part is the red mandrel holding the tankard?
07:29 PM andypugh: Aye
07:29 PM andypugh: renesis: high-bismuth to avoid melting anything elsw
07:29 PM renesis: neat
07:31 PM andypugh: renesis: Yes. it’s traditional. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankard#Glass_bottoms
07:32 PM renesis: 'another legend has it that the glass bottom was implemented so as to see the attack coming.'
07:32 PM renesis: haha
07:34 PM andypugh: You can see some of the 300+ tankards in the backround here, and one of the college alumni in the foreground. https://goo.gl/images/ZwQEsc
07:35 PM lcvette_: https://imgur.com/a/wibzUbT
07:35 PM renesis: andypugh: theyre engraved with grad class names?
07:36 PM andypugh: No, they are engraved with the names and dates of Union officers and club chairmen / captains
07:36 PM renesis: lcvette_: i would put the ground symbol by the 555 by C1 so it is on the bottom of that net, but yeah looks good!
07:37 PM renesis: aah, just the brass. still very cool
07:37 PM renesis: er, C5
07:37 PM renesis: the 0.01 uF cap
07:38 PM andypugh: I have 5 I can use. (well, except one is one of my repairs, but that has a split in it. By the state of it you can read a lot in to the nature of RCS Publicity Officer.
07:39 PM renesis: heh
07:40 PM andypugh: There is, of course, a protocol. If you enter the bar and find someone below you on the tankard drinking from it, they are obliged to finish the tankard as fast as they can, and buy you a drink in it.
07:40 PM renesis: points for patience and awareness
07:41 PM lcvette_: https://imgur.com/a/gAPteCh
07:41 PM renesis: very nice
07:41 PM andypugh: Well, you tend to know your successors. Or you ask the barman for “your” pot and find it is out already.
07:42 PM lcvette_: sweet
07:42 PM lcvette_: jesseg mentioned the following: use a ceramic bypass cap
07:42 PM lcvette_: but im not sure what he was meaning
07:43 PM lcvette_: when i looked at my notes i didn't have any more info than that
07:43 PM renesis: its usually a good idea if the capacitance is small enough that disc ceramic or muli layer ceramic chip (MLCC) caps work, to use them
07:43 PM renesis: because electrolytics have various problems
07:44 PM renesis: from stolen electrolytic formulas not working out and fucking the entire industry, to just being more sensitive to heat, and have complete shit tolerances
07:45 PM renesis: MLCC has pretty much replaced tantalum caps, but depending on voltage, above like 1uF to 10uF, and ceramic caps are usually spendy or dont exist
07:45 PM andypugh: I just worked out how to work this web page. https://www.imperialcollegeunion.org/beit-venues/spaces/bars/the-union-bar if ou click the boxes under the photo, the middle box shows a special event, and almost exactly in the middle of the photo, dressed in black and holding a tankard is me. You will note that most of the people there are, like me, too old tobe students any more.
07:47 PM lcvette_: "And keep bypass caps right close to integrated circuits. Oh, and use a ceramic bypass cap between power and ground pins on the integrated circuits per their datasheet. A 100uF electrolytic capacitor has too much inductance."
07:47 PM renesis: yes always
07:48 PM lcvette_: so im guessing C3 is a bad choice?
07:48 PM renesis: use the 100uF cap, but also put a 0.1uF as close the the power and ground pins as possible
07:48 PM renesis: like
07:49 PM renesis: two to three orders of magnitude between decoupling caps in a group is good rule of thumb
07:49 PM andypugh: Anyway, sleep time
07:49 PM renesis: night!
07:50 PM renesis: damn that was a cool pic he put
07:50 PM lcvette_: night andy!
07:50 PM lcvette_: i will have to check it in a bit
07:50 PM lcvette_: im engrossed inn this project
07:50 PM lcvette_: lol
07:51 PM lcvette_: eyes are crossed
07:51 PM renesis: lcvette_: so 100uF 6.3V electrolytic, 1 uF ceramic, 0.01 uF ceramic is a good decoupling group
07:51 PM lcvette_: is that what i have?
07:52 PM lcvette_: C3, C4, C5
07:52 PM lcvette_: oh i have nF
07:52 PM lcvette_: 1nF
07:52 PM renesis: C3
07:52 PM renesis: is decoupling
07:52 PM renesis: from VCC to ground
07:53 PM renesis: everything else im pretty sure is for the timing circuit, delayed feedback stuff
07:54 PM renesis: so you can do like, in parallel: 100uF electrolytic, 1uF ceramic, 0.01 ceramic
07:54 PM lcvette_: pins 1 and 8?
07:54 PM lcvette_: on the timer
07:54 PM lcvette_: or the battery
07:54 PM renesis: or: 100uF electrolytic, 0.1uF ceramic
07:55 PM renesis: both, really
07:55 PM renesis: 100uF is like a mini local power supply
07:55 PM lcvette_: gtocha
07:55 PM lcvette_: and those will be regula caps not decoupling
07:56 PM lcvette_: just power storage
07:56 PM renesis: and the little guys handle transient spikes, like when it tries to switch and if some interference ends up on the supply lines
07:56 PM lcvette_: gotcha
07:56 PM lcvette_: like a little regulator
07:56 PM lcvette_: smoother
07:56 PM renesis: a little, yeah
07:58 PM renesis: like, electrolytics are almost human speed, theyre faster than audio but not a ton, they just dont see hard edges
07:59 PM renesis: like, 34 kHz doesnt seem fast, but its not a sine wave, so the edges are like a quarter wave in the MHz spectrum
08:03 PM lcvette_: https://imgur.com/a/enrtPxE
08:03 PM lcvette_: ok, sorry was updating
08:04 PM lcvette_: added a 0.1uF to battery and timer power pins
08:05 PM lcvette_: so i should also add a 100uF there as well?
08:05 PM renesis: on usb power its prob good
08:06 PM renesis: also maybe one from the top of the LEDs to GND
08:06 PM lcvette_: pin 1 and 5 by micro usb plug
08:07 PM renesis: wait no
08:07 PM lcvette_: k
08:07 PM renesis: C8 next to C3, in parallel, that makes them like one cap, like 100.1 uF
08:08 PM renesis: GND on the 555 has to connect to ground
08:08 PM renesis: https://imgur.com/a/gAPteCh
08:09 PM renesis: on this schematic, you can put three 0.1 uF next to C1, C2, C3, in parallel with ends connected
08:10 PM renesis: because putting a cap is kind of like disconnecting things, except at high frequencies
08:10 PM lcvette_: ok
08:10 PM lcvette_: one sec
08:10 PM renesis: at DC, cap is open, and inductor is like a short
08:11 PM lcvette_: so for the battery, C7 does that need to go as well?
08:11 PM renesis: that would disconnect the battery, the caps in series like that
08:12 PM renesis: except for the moment you connect it, and again when you disconnect it
08:12 PM lcvette_: https://imgur.com/a/UVrjYme
08:12 PM renesis: no you put them in series!
08:12 PM renesis: parallel is like, connected to the same stuff, not end to end, but side by side
08:13 PM lcvette_: ok i though that but when you said ends connected i got confused
08:13 PM renesis: oh, like, connect ends on same side of parts together
08:13 PM renesis: yeah thats not so good a way to explain i guess, sorry, heh
08:14 PM renesis: like, in parallel with C1 means new part is also connected across connector, from pin 1 to 5, same connection
08:17 PM lcvette_: https://imgur.com/a/DMIt7HE
08:18 PM renesis: C3, C10, C8 are perfect, i would bump one up to 1uF and one down to 0.01uF, or just use 0.1uF (these are most common and cheapest by far)
08:19 PM renesis: oh
08:19 PM renesis: C9, remove that, and C6, and C7, reconnect like before
08:19 PM renesis: https://imgur.com/a/gAPteCh
08:19 PM renesis: like here
08:20 PM renesis: and then put 0.1uF in parallel with 10u, and thats probably good
08:20 PM renesis: but you can change to 100uF, 1uF, 0.01uF if you want
08:21 PM renesis: then, i would do the same decoupling from pin 2 of the FET, the grounded side, to pin 1 of probe connector
08:21 PM renesis: this maybe make the IR LEDs turn on a tiny bit faster
08:22 PM renesis: depends on their supply and how long the wires to it
08:22 PM lcvette_: https://imgur.com/a/TDQ15Yn
08:22 PM lcvette_: ok trying to keep up
08:23 PM lcvette_: lol
08:23 PM renesis: yes
08:23 PM renesis: very good
08:23 PM lcvette_: ok so add same parallel setup to battery?
08:24 PM lcvette_: or just to fet
08:24 PM renesis: C1 and C2 have same problem as C3, they are kind of slow, but, since you have 100uF on the 555, maybe fine
08:24 PM lcvette_: between ground and fet
08:24 PM renesis: i would do the fets
08:24 PM renesis: remember you dont have to use them
08:24 PM renesis: like, you can just not stuff those parts in the PCB
08:25 PM renesis: but if you dont put them in the schematic, you have to rework them onto the PCBA if you decide you need them later
08:25 PM lcvette_: if it makes it better and more reliable i want it to be that way
08:25 PM renesis: PCB, is like, the circuit board, PCBA is the assembly with all the parts soldered to it
08:25 PM renesis: it makes the board more versatile, and yeah general local decoupling is always helpful
08:26 PM renesis: *generally
08:26 PM renesis: theres weird analol dinosaur circuit exceptions where a good power supply causes things to flip out, but almost always okay
08:29 PM renesis: anyway, i have to go soon, but looks like you got it
08:32 PM lcvette_: Thanks Renesis!!
08:32 PM lcvette_: I really appeciate all the help!
08:32 PM lcvette_: I will post it up later when im done with it!
08:32 PM renesis: no! this was fun! summer work is in a warehouse, mostly is boring
08:32 PM renesis: today i got to multiply and divide
08:48 PM tjb1: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/206756204427476995/463521361344725002/image.jpg?width=901&height=676
08:48 PM tjb1: I screwed pinout on one up because they had the plug flipped on the schematic :(
08:50 PM tjb1: new https://i.imgur.com/MXlfSzc.png