#linuxcnc Logs

Jul 01 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:10 AM the_document: what are standard and minimal cnc tolerances in mm?
12:13 AM the_document: i dont know how drastic a jump in cost will be from +/-0.05mm & +/-0.1mm
01:47 AM fragalot: hi
01:52 AM Deejay: moin
01:56 AM miss0r|office: mornin'
02:00 AM miss0r|office: I have a few hours home alone, so I decided to shift through some old vinyl albums. At the moment I am listening to 'the wall' album :]
02:01 AM miss0r|office: After this, garden duty calls :-/
02:03 AM Deejay: eh, vinyl
02:03 AM Deejay: you must be old! ;)
02:04 AM miss0r|office: hell no!
02:04 AM miss0r|office: :)
02:04 AM fragalot: wait, if you have a few hours, let me run out to the shed & measure those gibs :D
02:04 AM miss0r|office: sure :)
02:05 AM fragalot: Deejay: Can't beat original vinyls
02:05 AM * fragalot brb
02:06 AM miss0r|office: I mean; CDs are 'alright' but you just don't get the same satifcation from browsing through the large covers & listening the imperfections in the sound caused by forign particles landing on the surface
02:08 AM RyanS: vinyl would make a good way cover :p
02:10 AM miss0r|office: sure. Just not good for the 'heavier' particles
02:10 AM fragalot: or hot ones
02:10 AM miss0r|office: that too :)
02:11 AM miss0r|office: fragalot: How big are they, roughly?
02:12 AM miss0r|office: I would love to do'em if I had the material in stock ;)
02:19 AM RyanS: https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/tools/stepper-motor-calculator/ do I just factor in microstepping here? at least for rpm..
02:21 AM miss0r|office: fragalot: If you have some dimensions, send it to the miss0r (the shop one:P) I will look at that from time to time during the day. I will go do some gardening. see you around
03:29 AM gloops: someone wanting to install on ubuntu
03:29 AM gloops: must be slightly annoying being a developer, whatever you build they want something different lol
03:30 AM gloops: it is so easy to download the iso, run it, run stepconfig - youre away
03:48 AM fragalot: miss0r: miss0r|office sent you an email. :-)
03:51 AM fragalot: gloops: most likely they want to run it from the OS they're used to, or are currently using for other tasks
03:53 AM gloops: hes running mach3 on windows and wants linuxcnc on the same hard drive, would be easier to get another drive i think
03:54 AM fragalot: nah easy enough to dual boot
03:55 AM gloops: you dont want to be using the computer for anything else anyway
03:56 AM XXCoder: best way to dual boot: install linux. boot into it, don't bother to install windows.
03:59 AM gloops: to be fair linuxcnc would probably be more popular if a mint version was available
04:00 AM Wolf__: huh, I’m running mint flavored lcnc
04:00 AM gloops: mint was not a difficult transistion for me from windows, you can get by easily enough
04:00 AM gloops: debian isnt so friendly
04:00 AM gloops: Wolf did you download that as a package or set iy up yourself?
04:00 AM Wolf__: there is a guide on how to do a mint linux cnc install
04:01 AM Wolf__: and I dont know crap about linux
04:01 AM gloops: i tried it once and it failed, ending up starting again
04:01 AM Wolf__: I do know now to use one of my real computers vs the intel atom to compile tho
04:02 AM Wolf__: for me it was pretty much cut and paste some stuff in to a batch file and run it
04:03 AM gloops: one i did was command line, got the kernels mixed up and ballsed everything up
04:03 AM Wolf__: yeah, much easier to batch it imo
04:04 AM Wolf__: its fuzzy tho its been over a year when I did it
04:04 AM Wolf__: or two
04:06 AM Wolf__: note I used info from 3 different forum threads to make it work =)
04:07 AM Wolf__: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/32193-complete-how-to-linux-mint-18-1-32-64-rtai-or-preempt-with-rip-install-or-deb is one of them
04:09 AM Wolf__: I was kinda backed in a corner to make it work also, I picked a mobo that the live lcnc didn’t support most of the stuff on
04:14 AM XXCoder: my main oc here had linuxcnc installed but it was wiped in upgrade :(
04:15 AM XXCoder: gonna redo it evenually. i love having linuxcnc to test run stuff. no rt needed
04:15 AM RyanS: are you going to use profile linear rails or v-rollers wolf? plasma
04:22 AM Wolf__: not sure yet
04:23 AM Wolf__: probably ball truck type rails
04:23 AM Wolf__: least for the carriage part
04:28 AM Wolf__: yeah profile rails, I have 4 thk rails that I may butt joint to make the carriage axis, the arm will probably be some semi janky v-grove arrangement
04:29 AM gloops: for last router i made some skate bearings by using a round tube for the rail and a section of large tube over it like a sleeve
04:30 AM gloops: on each end of the sleeve mounted 4 bearings - they worked fine
04:30 AM gloops: like a roller coaster rails
04:31 AM gloops: with plasma no force apart from the jerking of the gantry, something like that would be ok
04:31 AM RyanS: hmm, i'm concerned about mounting profile rails on steel tube or t-slot that is far from a precision surface
04:32 AM Wolf__: well… its a plasma cut, what kinda tolerance are you expecting
04:33 AM gloops: https://www.coaster101.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/PIC_0119.jpg
04:34 AM gloops: you dont need close tolerances, most diy plasmas run straight on the box section frame with flat skate bearings
04:35 AM RyanS: not a lot, which is why I find it strange that some people insist on dropping $2000 on profile rails
04:35 AM Wolf__: https://chdwelding.en.made-in-china.com/product/UyWJjKprhYhl/China-portable-metal-stainless-steel-aluminum-sheet-CNC-plasma-cutter.html is kinda what I have in mind for my build, but more 80/20 and probably uglier
04:35 AM gloops: http://www.thebackshed.com/cnc/images/Dscf0795.jpg
04:37 AM gloops: the only snag i can see with a long arm like that is it shaking under accel/deccel
04:39 AM gloops: another take on tube http://mambohead.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/proto4_8.jpg
04:39 AM Wolf__: probably part of the reason those are built wide
04:39 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
04:39 AM IchGucksLive: late today
04:39 AM RyanS: hi
04:39 AM IchGucksLive: we are short of personal so im in full service
04:39 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, for your plasma no hiwion is needed
04:40 AM IchGucksLive: hgh
04:40 AM IchGucksLive: only SBR
04:40 AM gloops: you can go very fast with an arm ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kN5iqVO67g
04:40 AM RyanS: yeah I think Hiwin is overkill
04:40 AM RyanS: and hard to mount
04:40 AM gloops: you would need hiwin for Wolfs design
04:41 AM Wolf__: thk should be very overkill lol
04:41 AM gloops: at 1200mm that arm has to be mounted VERY well
04:41 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, did you see my plasmas
04:41 AM RyanS: yep
04:41 AM gloops: .1mm play in the bearings = 10mm slack at the other end
04:41 AM Wolf__: but it only going to be 5’ of rails and maybe 4’ of arm, but I could get away with 2’ arm
04:42 AM IchGucksLive: i got the table build at 1200euros
04:42 AM IchGucksLive: 2500x1500
04:43 AM IchGucksLive: swiming pool clue
04:43 AM RyanS: gloops but for a gantry type , not necessary?
04:43 AM Wolf__: gantry is dead simple
04:43 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, i got a file if you want the design
04:43 AM Wolf__: just get the frame square =)
04:43 AM gloops: RyanS no the gantry has both ends in bearings
04:43 AM IchGucksLive: BUT in modern days it is more a outtake
04:44 AM gloops: seriously, if you are going fast, dont underestimate how the velocity will shake things about, rapid changing direction
04:44 AM Wolf__: ^
04:45 AM IchGucksLive: gloops, acceleration is low on plasma
04:45 AM IchGucksLive: you cand go hard to the edge as plasma will drop
04:46 AM IchGucksLive: 120acc is max on mine
04:46 AM Wolf__: only time its going to be flying is rapid to next cut area
04:46 AM IchGucksLive: if i go higher even on G64 P0,2 it will kill the flame on 90deg
04:46 AM RyanS: my understanding was that for sharp corner you need acceleration
04:47 AM IchGucksLive: k might be different on no water table but on mine direction changing is not so easy
04:47 AM Wolf__: guess that might be dependent on material thickness
04:48 AM IchGucksLive: if you are at 4800mm/min the flame is bending
04:48 AM IchGucksLive: 0,5mm if not more
04:48 AM gloops: youll have to get one of those fibre lasers
04:48 AM gloops: 50m/min
04:49 AM IchGucksLive: gloops, but not at 350Euros
04:49 AM gloops: lol
04:49 AM IchGucksLive: i use pimpd s-cutter
04:49 AM RyanS: similar to handheld where the arc blows back if you go to fast?
04:50 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, my expirience yes
04:50 AM IchGucksLive: 120 ACC is 5mm at 4800 so it is the best as i say to go
04:51 AM IchGucksLive: 5mm corner slow down and exelerate
04:51 AM Wolf__: … I’m never going fast cutting w/ my plasma but thin for me is 3/16”-5mm
04:52 AM IchGucksLive: on contour like letters you are not able to get to 3000
04:52 AM gloops: Leeds welding company cuts the plates for a ship in a week
04:52 AM gloops: 300 profile burners on the dole
04:52 AM IchGucksLive: gloops, they got the peoöle that know there mashine and steel
04:52 AM RyanS: why 30:1? I was calculating 10m/min without reduction and 22mm pinion , 0.33 m/min 30;1
04:53 AM XXCoder: stainless aluminium
04:54 AM IchGucksLive: Ry i use T10 rack at Z12 pinion THIS is 10*12 120mm Per Rotation
04:54 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, 120mm = 12000 steps = 400*30
04:54 AM IchGucksLive: so full speed at full force with max precision
04:55 AM RyanS: so this calculator doesn't work for this application? http://www.endmemo.com/physics/rpmlinear.php
04:56 AM IchGucksLive: 10m/min = 166mm/sec = 16600 steps /sec
04:56 AM IchGucksLive: so you can do this with 50k latency on a standard 5 USD BOB
04:56 AM IchGucksLive: all Drivers in Brig form can do this
04:57 AM RyanS: what's T10? I have only heard of mod 1.0, mod 2.0 etc
04:57 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, there are metric Racks
04:58 AM RyanS: so is gear module isn't it?
04:58 AM RyanS: https://www.ebay.com.au/str/CNC-AND-CUPCAKE-WORLD/Rack-Pinion/_i.html?_storecat=536464719
04:58 AM IchGucksLive: http://maedler.de/product/1643/1618/2130/zahnstangen-stahl-mit-metrischer-teilung-5mm-und-10mm
04:58 AM IchGucksLive: let me see
04:59 AM IchGucksLive: T10 is M3,18
04:59 AM IchGucksLive: T5 is module 1,59
04:59 AM RyanS: 20T * 1.0 is 20mm pcd I think
04:59 AM IchGucksLive: the calculation is not accurate it is a nearing
05:00 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, but as you see the numbers fit perfect
05:00 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, it is also a standard so parts are just buy and screw them up
05:01 AM RyanS: doesn't mod 2.0 have a lot of backlash?
05:01 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, Mädler got a store in australia as i see
05:02 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, the metrics are grinded to fit even if you go for 5times 500mm and mount them in line
05:02 AM IchGucksLive: you will se no backlash
05:02 AM RyanS: my lathe has like equivalent to mod 3.0 on the carriage
05:02 AM IchGucksLive: the gearbox is with spring pulled onto the rail
05:03 AM RyanS: lots of backlash on lathe
05:03 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, as you see prices are higher but precision is it almostr
05:04 AM IchGucksLive: all i can say is no backlash in a 8hr shift at all
05:04 AM IchGucksLive: they are real tight up no fix mount
05:05 AM RyanS: ok, some say Springs wear the rack more?
05:06 AM IchGucksLive: packet of springs like tellerfeder din 2093
05:06 AM RyanS: so you can get dual pinions for precision ( although too expensive )
05:06 AM IchGucksLive: tighten to 2t force so nothing will rig
05:06 AM IchGucksLive: or rack
05:07 AM IchGucksLive: im pulling near 500KG of Gantry
05:07 AM RyanS: do you recommend 4Nm for x, y and z?
05:08 AM IchGucksLive: im off dish is ready for Meal
05:08 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, no
05:08 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, but the 2Nm do pull the same Amps so go for 4Nm 3Amp
05:08 AM IchGucksLive: and the 500W psiu and you are save
05:08 AM RyanS: ah
05:08 AM IchGucksLive: OFF Thanks
05:50 AM jthornton: morning
06:34 AM SpeedEvil: https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=5349
06:34 AM SpeedEvil: - On the harms to small manufacturers of the new tarrifs.
06:54 AM gloops: be interesting to see how it works out
06:54 AM gloops: like all these economic policies, it would need time to really evaluate the effects, ive no doubt trumps successor will immediately reverse these tariffs
06:55 AM RyanS: party like it's 1929
07:07 AM gloops: well there is all this fuss over trump, but if you ignore the sensationalism he makes a fair point
07:07 AM gloops: like the EU tariffs american products already - nobody has said anything about them using tariffs
07:08 AM gloops: china is another
07:08 AM gloops: copyright laws arent even pursued against china
07:44 AM tiwake: the issue is that if I make a product and sell it to someone outside USA, that country adds on another 30% to the price, but if that someone sells the same thing to me in USA I get 30% discount
07:44 AM tiwake: how is that fair?
07:47 AM jthornton: tariffs are never fair
07:53 AM tiwake: the only way it can work properly is if everyone drops it though
07:54 AM Loetmichel: tariffs are meant to make the trade of whole countrys "fair" (as in leveled in/out money), not individual trades
07:55 AM Loetmichel: ans sometimes they are a punishment for outside "leaders" actions... that usually doesent work though because you hurt the populace of the land you tariff, not its leaders
08:28 AM miss0r: ahh. playhouse floor is done. Now I've earned 10 minuts break
08:29 AM miss0r: I bet not too many playhouse floors in the neighborhood is made with 32mm planks :D
08:29 AM miss0r: It was the best deal I could find on a short notice
08:47 AM fragalot: Hey
08:48 AM fragalot: miss0r: you're right, most are 38mm
09:00 AM Deejay: playhouse for eternity
09:21 AM tjb1: Anyone have the router mount from CNCRP or Openbuilds?
09:37 AM Tecan: https://github.com/tecan/guvcview << low footprint version of guvcview for monitoring cnc
09:37 AM Tecan: i have sdl_delay going to limit it for 10fps
09:38 AM Tecan: chose it because it can use upsidedown webcams easily
09:48 AM Tecan: it would be cool to be able to find something that modify's existing gcode g0 movements to play music
09:49 AM fragalot: for what purpose?
09:49 AM Tecan: music
09:49 AM fragalot: making the steppers do the music, or play something through the speakers to know it's done?
09:49 AM Tecan: the steppers
09:50 AM fragalot: I guess :-) kinda defeats the point of g0 though :P
09:50 AM rmu: should be possible with G1 and manipulation of feedrate
09:51 AM rmu: less so if you use silent step or similar drivers
09:51 AM fragalot: rmu: it definitely is, but I think Tecan just wants to pour his existing gcode through something where the G0's are converted
09:52 AM fragalot: so it plays very intermittent music :P
09:52 AM Tecan: there are more g1's looking at it now
09:52 AM fragalot: you do not want to mess with the G1 moves if you care about surface finish & tool life
09:53 AM Tecan: might be good for 3d printers still
09:53 AM fragalot: not really, changes the properties
09:53 AM fragalot: changes layer adhesion & surface fininsh
09:54 AM Tecan: if it stays within 60 mm/s it would be fine
09:54 AM Tecan: for pla and abs
09:54 AM fragalot: not if it's busy doing an overhang or bridge move
09:55 AM rmu: i see no problem in replacing G0 with G1
09:55 AM fragalot: you can do whatever you want with the G0's; Tecan was talking about replacing the G1's
09:55 AM rmu: of course you will only have "music" while doing position moves
09:56 AM rmu: whatever. playing "stepper-music" while the spindle is running doesn't make much sense anyway
10:20 AM Lcvette: electronics circuit builder gurus in here right now?
10:20 AM fragalot: Lcvette: 'sup
10:21 AM Lcvette: i was working on a diy project from a couple months back and thought i would revive it
10:21 AM Lcvette: wireless probe
10:22 AM Lcvette: http://imgur.com/gallery/Sz2I2sZ
10:22 AM Lcvette: http://imgur.com/gallery/FJyErZr
10:22 AM Lcvette: i built this circuit from research on IR circuits
10:23 AM Lcvette: not sure if it is 100% tight
10:23 AM Lcvette: right
10:24 AM Lcvette: this is the board for inside the probe, the transmitter, designed to work with a 3.7v lipo battery pack i found that is a good size to fit inside the probe body and make it rechargable
10:26 AM fragalot: right.. wireless isn't really my thing :P
10:29 AM Lcvette: works is everyone's thing
10:29 AM jesseg: Lcvette, what kind of probe is it?
10:30 AM Lcvette: this is just a transmitter
10:30 AM jesseg: oh, it flashes those IR leds at ultrasonic frequencies whenever the probe switch gets closed
10:30 AM Lcvette: it's for a touch probe, but could be used in atool setter
10:30 AM Lcvette: correct
10:31 AM Lcvette: the timer circuit creates the frequency
10:31 AM Lcvette: there's a battery charging circuit
10:31 AM Lcvette: so probe can be charged with a simple microusb
10:31 AM Lcvette: like a phone
10:32 AM Lcvette: and has a charged and discharged led
10:32 AM Lcvette: pretty simple
10:33 AM Lcvette: have not designed the probe yet, wanted to design this first so i knew my physical constraints for the probe body
10:34 AM jesseg: it's generally a good idea to have an under-discharge prevention circuit on lithium ion type cells
10:34 AM Lcvette: i have not yet done the receiver circuit yet
10:34 AM jesseg: so it doesn't drain the cell completely flat empty if you forget it on
10:35 AM jesseg: oh maybe yours has one built in
10:35 AM jesseg: since I see you haven't a fuse neither, maybe both of those are in the battery module
10:35 AM rmu: hmm
10:36 AM Lcvette: maybe
10:36 AM fragalot: no
10:36 AM Lcvette: i dunno
10:36 AM fragalot: there is no under-voltage lockout with the way it's wired now
10:36 AM rmu: NE555 can drive what current? 200mA?
10:36 AM Lcvette: i just found that online
10:36 AM diverdude is now known as Guest84971
10:37 AM jesseg: fragalot, but a lot of batteries like from cell phones and stuff have a built in BMS chip that disconnects when temperature or voltage get out of bounds at either extreme
10:37 AM fragalot: jesseg: True.
10:38 AM jesseg: Lcvette, rmu brings up a good point - the 555's often do not drive much current. They usually sink more than they drive, but even that's usually not a great amount.
10:39 AM jesseg: and you could possibly save power by having the probe input actually cut power to the 555, just use a 0.1uF bypass cap for the timer instead, and have the timer drive a logic mosfet to actually gate power to the diodes
10:39 AM jesseg: the LEDs that is
10:40 AM fragalot: you're only driving the LEDs at a max. of 10mA too
10:40 AM fragalot: which is quite low
10:40 AM rmu: Lcvette: i would use inverse logic, i.e. send IR as long as the probe doesn't have contact... or else probe is gone if you touch off something and somehow light is blocked
10:40 AM fragalot: assuming 3.7V battery
10:40 AM fragalot: and assuming the NE555P is rail to rail, which it isn't
10:40 AM jesseg: lol oh I guess the 555 can drive them at 10mA :P
10:40 AM jesseg: but yeah that's awfully dim
10:41 AM Lcvette: I'm absorbing
10:41 AM Lcvette: i think you make a good point
10:41 AM jesseg: and I agree with fragalot, itd be much much safer if *loss* of IR signal was equated to contact.
10:42 AM jesseg: It'd be better to have a battery die and false contact signal then have it smashing up stuff and not knowing it :P
10:42 AM fragalot: Lcvette: basically, each LED will drop around 1.6V
10:42 AM fragalot: so 2 in series give you around 3.2V
10:42 AM Lcvette: so only two leds
10:42 AM Tom_L: check the led specs, they vary
10:43 AM jesseg: fragalot, I've actually found a lot of IR leds actually drop around 1.1v when I go to measure them.
10:43 AM fragalot: jesseg: i'm going by datasheet which says typical 1.45 max 1.65
10:43 AM Lcvette: i checked this before is been a few months
10:43 AM jesseg: fragalot, ok fair enough :D
10:44 AM fragalot: Lcvette: also, the NE555P outputs 3.3V when fed with 5V
10:44 AM Lcvette: so i need a bigger battery
10:44 AM fragalot: also - you need a different 555 for 3.7V operation
10:44 AM fragalot: :P
10:45 AM Lcvette: see, this is why i asked for help
10:45 AM Lcvette: :)
10:45 AM Tom_L: alot of remotes will overdrive the leds and use a shorter pulse
10:45 AM Tom_L: gains distance
10:45 AM fragalot: sure, the LEDs in this schematic are well suited to being over-driven
10:45 AM jesseg: yeah this LED can be overdriven to 1A for short pulses
10:46 AM jesseg: obviously for very short pulses
10:46 AM fragalot: jesseg: and 100mA continuous
10:46 AM jesseg: which is probably bright enough anyway :P
10:46 AM fragalot: which is impressive, to be honest.. putting out 165mW into a package that small :P
10:47 AM Lcvette: you guys want onto the project page on easyeda?
10:47 AM Tom_L: i use eagle
10:47 AM Tom_L: well, i used eagle
10:47 AM Tom_L: haven't done any in ages
10:48 AM Tom_L: some of those places provide a cad and lock you into their house that way
10:48 AM rmu: kicad ;)
10:49 AM Lcvette: i used easyeda because it was easy
10:49 AM Lcvette: lol
10:50 AM jesseg: Lcvette, do you prefer SOT23 or TO92 for a mosfet?
10:50 AM fragalot: Lcvette: you could use the TS555, which should run fine off of a battery
10:50 AM Tom_L: (surface mount vs legged creatures)
10:50 AM Lcvette: i should say I'm so new to this that what you asked is above my head
10:51 AM Tom_L: (surface mount vs legged creatures)
10:51 AM fragalot: Lcvette: let's ask another way
10:51 AM Tom_L: those are package styles
10:51 AM fragalot: how good are your eyes, and how well can you wield a soldering iron :D
10:51 AM Lcvette: o literally just had a desire to make a wireless probe and set out to learn how to do it
10:52 AM Lcvette: i planned on having the board made probably with a group of friends diyers hobby machiners
10:52 AM Lcvette: i sick at soldering
10:52 AM Lcvette: suck
10:52 AM Tom_L: spelling too :D
10:53 AM Tom_L: soldering is easy with the right tools
10:53 AM Lcvette: tablet and auto correct kills me
10:53 AM Tom_L: it _can_ be difficult otherwise
10:53 AM fragalot: Lcvette: right, so replace the NE555P with a TS555 for starters to let it run on 3.7V
10:54 AM Lcvette: ok
10:54 AM fragalot: for the output, you'll need to add a mosfet rather than go directly from the output
10:55 AM Lcvette: are any of your guys interested in a wireless probe and or too setter?
10:55 AM rmu: why not use a ESP32 end BLE
10:55 AM rmu: and
10:56 AM Lcvette: I'm not selling nor want to, along as a group build make project, probably cheaper
10:56 AM rmu: i don't know how "real" wireless probes to the wireless thing, but in my environment, optical receiver wouldn't work very long
10:56 AM rmu: s/to the/do the/
10:56 AM Lcvette: pretty sure they are IR from my research
10:57 AM jesseg: Lcvette, here's a mosfet for you - can be driven by the 555 and can switch a few amps with minimal voltage loss
10:57 AM Lcvette: some have arf backup
10:58 AM Tom_L: i think renishaw mount their receivers well out of the coolant path
10:58 AM Lcvette: jesseg: don't see anything
10:58 AM jesseg: Lcvette, that's because I forgot to paste the link :P https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/infineon-technologies/IRLML6244TRPBF/IRLML6244TRPBFCT-ND/2393877
10:58 AM Lcvette: yeah usually a good bit of of the way
10:59 AM Lcvette: lol
10:59 AM jesseg: Lcvette, one more thing on your design, especially if you start switching the LEDs at higher currents, is your ground plane is all scrambled, you could end up with strange oscillations and a small radio tarnsmitter :P
11:00 AM Lcvette: ok
11:00 AM Lcvette: how should i correct?
11:00 AM rmu: renishaw has IR, radio and wired options
11:01 AM jesseg: Lcvette, In answer to your other question, I really don't see myself using IR wireless in shop. I might consider using these along with micro controllers: https://www.ebay.com/itm/232298169165
11:03 AM jesseg: Lcvette, hrm how to correct... Well, you should always have a ground plane. And you should group things in such a way the traces between them are as short as is practical. And keep bypass caps right close to integrated circuits. Oh, and use a ceramic bypass cap between power and ground pins on the integrated circuits per their datasheet. A 100uF electrolytic capacitor has too much inductance.
11:04 AM fragalot: Lcvette: and take into account minimum trace width and clearance around it for whatever manufacturing process you're going to use
11:04 AM Lcvette: ok
11:04 AM jesseg: And high current high frequency paths should not parallel traces which carry sensitive signals
11:05 AM Lcvette: ok
11:05 AM Lcvette: gonna be tough on such a small board
11:05 AM rmu: also it wouldn't hurt to use a small microcontroller instead of the ne555 if at all possible
11:05 AM Tom_L: is it 1 or 2 layers?
11:06 AM Lcvette: 2
11:06 AM Tom_L: tiny 10 or such in a sot23-6 would do fine there
11:06 AM jesseg: Lcvette, how are you going to be receiving the IR signal?
11:06 AM fragalot: or.. you could go the wired route :P
11:06 AM Tom_L: fewer external components
11:07 AM Lcvette: tony 10?
11:07 AM Tom_L: atmel attiny10
11:07 AM Lcvette: tiny*
11:08 AM Tom_L: or microchip, whoever owns them today
11:08 AM jesseg: I'm a Microchip PIC junkie from a good ways back :P
11:08 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/tiny/tinyTPI1.jpg
11:08 AM Lcvette: i know even less about micro cops
11:08 AM Tom_L: all you need
11:09 AM Lcvette: that's it?
11:09 AM Lcvette: that's smaller
11:09 AM Tom_L: well, that and a programmer, developement environment etc :D
11:10 AM Lcvette: oh
11:10 AM Lcvette: yeah....
11:10 AM Lcvette: well...
11:11 AM jesseg: Lcvette, anyway, detecting and decoding IR signals in a lit shop - especially if there is florescent lighting - can be a real challenge. Keeping that 555 tuned to the right frequency is going to be a pain possibly. Highly recommend something more accurate, perhaps even crystal controlled.
11:11 AM fragalot: jesseg: STM32 or bust :P
11:11 AM fragalot: moar powah needing less juice for a lower price. what's not to like
11:11 AM Lcvette: jesseg: i had not yet done the receiver
11:11 AM fragalot: and the debugging options are fantastic.
11:11 AM Tom_L: fragalot all the setup of the registers etc
11:12 AM Tom_L: for basically a blinking led
11:12 AM fragalot: you could make it do more than just blink the LED
11:12 AM jesseg: Lcvette, ideally you'd use radio wireless that would send a constant signal so the receiver knew it was communicating, then that signal would change codes on contact. Could also send low battery alert, etc
11:12 AM fragalot: transfer data, like battery state, keep-alive signals, self-checks,...
11:12 AM jesseg: fragalot, yeah I've been thinking I should experiment with STM32
11:13 AM fragalot: jesseg: do it. you can get the ST-link programmers quite cheap & segger providezs a firmware upgrade for them to give you a ton more options
11:13 AM Lcvette: i envy you guys
11:13 AM Lcvette: how old are you?
11:13 AM Tom_L: 12
11:13 AM fragalot: 7
11:14 AM jesseg: hey guys that doesn't leave me much room if I'm to continue the trend
11:14 AM Lcvette: just mean i find the younger generation has a better grasp on electronics
11:14 AM fragalot: hehe
11:14 AM Lcvette: unless it was your profession
11:14 AM Lcvette: I'm 43
11:15 AM fragalot: how about both?
11:15 AM jesseg: I'm 40, but it was my profession
11:15 AM Tom_L: i'm neither
11:15 AM Lcvette: I'm trying to learn
11:16 AM Tom_L: i've kinda gotten out of electronics lately
11:16 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
11:16 AM Lcvette: and wish i had the benefit of a younger more spongelike grain
11:16 AM Lcvette: brain*
11:16 AM jesseg: yeah I would like more spongelike grain myself :P
11:17 AM Tom_L: i did it as a hobby
11:17 AM fragalot: I was really into electronics ~10 years ago, then it took a nosedive & I picked it up again end of last year jumping into the deep end by becoming an embeded systems engineer, rather than machine building engineer
11:17 AM jesseg: sorry couldn't resist. I know how awful smart device spell correct is
11:17 AM Tom_L: like cnc
11:17 AM Tom_L: but try to get them to fund themselves
11:17 AM jesseg: howdy IchGucksLive !
11:18 AM IchGucksLive: ;-)
11:18 AM Lcvette: i recently purchased an arduino kit and i have yet to open it...lol
11:18 AM Tom_L: i may have 1 arduino
11:18 AM IchGucksLive: arduino in dozents here around
11:18 AM Tom_L: i've never used them
11:18 AM fragalot: I think i've got 7
11:18 AM IchGucksLive: we are in full harvest
11:18 AM Tom_L: always built and programmed the chips they way they should be
11:19 AM Lcvette: i figured i would start to learn by trying some of the follow along bills
11:19 AM Lcvette: builds
11:19 AM Tom_L: not from somebody else's libraries
11:19 AM fragalot: all in various states of unfinishedness :P
11:19 AM IchGucksLive: and i got 2 arduino and on android on etch farmer tractor and harvester
11:19 AM fragalot: Tom_L: recently, now that STM32's are so easy to come by, i've started building my own HAL's and other API's for everything we use
11:19 AM IchGucksLive: we got tiny roads
11:20 AM fragalot: really nice when you start a new project where 90% of the grunt work can be re-used
11:20 AM Lcvette: i suppose i have a lot of research ahead
11:21 AM Lcvette: i thought i was getting close, now i feel like I'm starting all over...lol
11:21 AM IchGucksLive: maybe 6 years ago android 2.3 we harvested a GOV owned corn field and payd 10000 fee
11:21 AM Lcvette: that schematic too me aweek of evenings in research to put together
11:21 AM Tom_L: better to have a working circuit than a disapointment
11:21 AM IchGucksLive: there istarted the projekt
11:21 AM Lcvette: i agree
11:22 AM Tom_L: i've had some of both
11:22 AM IchGucksLive: shematic is fun but on finish you may miss a part
11:23 AM Lcvette: i figured o would bread board it first
11:23 AM Tom_L: breadboards are typically noisy
11:23 AM Tom_L: but somewhat ok for a concept
11:23 AM IchGucksLive: i personly need a big LCD like in Cars that can be seen day and night
11:23 AM IchGucksLive: like in Mercedes
11:23 AM Tom_L: plan on building 3 before you're done
11:24 AM Lcvette: sounds about right
11:24 AM fragalot: the thing I always forget is to leave room for test pins :P
11:24 AM IchGucksLive: im pencioner so i got LLLOTSSS of time
11:24 AM Lcvette: test pins?
11:25 AM fragalot: Lcvette: simple pads or pins that you can use to measure signals on
11:25 AM fragalot: eg. hook up your oscilloscope
11:25 AM Lcvette: ah
11:25 AM IchGucksLive: ar age 70+ brasin runs out and the helth is taking effects
11:26 AM IchGucksLive: as today 22years running full service while i pause at the time
11:27 AM Lcvette: so to recap... i should use a micropchip, learn programming, become an electronics engineer
11:27 AM Lcvette: lol
11:27 AM Lcvette: got it
11:27 AM jesseg: Lcvette, or run a bloody wire :D :D :D
11:27 AM IchGucksLive: no better to go mechanics
11:28 AM IchGucksLive: at this time you can make so many money on Tileman
11:28 AM IchGucksLive: housebuilder
11:28 AM IchGucksLive: even gardener
11:28 AM Tom_L: Lcvette it's all fun
11:28 AM Lcvette: the wire gets tangled in the ATC
11:28 AM Tom_L: just depends what you want to do
11:29 AM IchGucksLive: Tom_L, fully agree
11:29 AM jesseg: Lcvette, but actually yeah it's all fun and will round out your abilities as a maker
11:30 AM Tom_L: or drive you to drink
11:30 AM Lcvette: ts555, mosfet, verify irled voltage drop, use a ceramic bypass cap
11:31 AM IchGucksLive: Tom_L, in 1978 long time ago i hardly learnd the differece between can i have a drink to can i got somthing to drink
11:31 AM Lcvette: space traces, make traces wider, group and position components better
11:31 AM Tom_L: higher current traces are wider too
11:32 AM Tom_L: there are trace width calculators out there
11:33 AM Tom_L: follow them or the trace may become a fuse
11:33 AM Lcvette: what does the mosfet do?
11:34 AM Lcvette: like a regulator?
11:34 AM Tom_L: no
11:34 AM jesseg: Lcvette, a switch
11:34 AM jesseg: it allows a very low current signal from the 555 to turn on and off a load of several amps
11:34 AM Tom_L: more like a relay on your cnc. a drive signal switches higher current
11:34 AM jesseg: except it's faster than a mechanical relay :D
11:34 AM Lcvette: gotcha
11:35 AM Tom_L: mosfets are preferred due to less loss across the channel
11:35 AM Lcvette: am i replacing something?
11:35 AM Lcvette: or just adding
11:36 AM Tom_L: adding
11:36 AM jesseg: adding
11:36 AM Lcvette: ok
11:36 AM Lcvette: ok.. think i understand
11:37 AM Lcvette: power through the mosfet, and switch s signal to master from ts555
11:37 AM Tom_L: yup
11:37 AM Lcvette: master/mosfet
11:37 AM Lcvette: making sense
11:38 AM Lcvette: ok i will redesign and report back
11:38 AM Tom_L: the legs are labelled different too
11:38 AM Tom_L: over a regular transistor
11:38 AM fragalot: jesseg: a mosfet allows a VOLTAGE signal to turn a load on and off
11:39 AM fragalot: jesseg: the low current signals are transistors :P
11:39 AM Tom_L: where you have Emitter Base Collector you have Source Gate Drain
11:39 AM fragalot: nobody in their right mind uses transistors anymore these days
11:40 AM Lcvette: https://easyeda.com/0d84c75c
11:40 AM Lcvette: that's the project page
11:41 AM Tom_L: if you're using _some_ surface mount, i'd suggest going all the way
11:41 AM jesseg: fragalot, Trying to keep it simple for a beginner :D However, if we're going to split hairs, once we begin to operate a fet at other than a static state, i.e. AC signals, now we're dealing with dynamic conditions and current *does* flow. And it's still less than the available output current, assuming we're operating within the design intents of the part... :P :D :D
11:42 AM jesseg: Lcvette, here's how to use the mosfet: https://i.stack.imgur.com/ZK60L.png
11:42 AM pfred1: surface mount is not really how power capacity
11:42 AM pfred1: high power even
11:43 AM fragalot: jesseg: so no fet driver then to keep up with the high frequency signals and the high inrush currents into the gate then? :P
11:44 AM Lcvette: if anyone wants to join on easyeda, feel free
11:44 AM jesseg: fragalot, well, considering the frequency and characteristics of a signal small fet, I think the 555 should be fine. If it was a gang of 10 huge fets in parallel, running at a MHZ then lol yeah Houston we have a problem :D. Fet drivers are rated in 10s of amps LOL.
11:45 AM jesseg: signal->signle
11:45 AM pfred1: easy huh?
11:46 AM jesseg: fragalot, and besides, if we drive the fet too fast, we end up producing unwanted RF transmissions :P hence the common 27 ohm gate resistor :P
11:46 AM fragalot: :-)
11:46 AM fragalot: I remember my first bout with P-channel FETs for a high power application
11:47 AM fragalot: tried to get my trabant's 6V starter motor to run off of 12V
11:47 AM fragalot: never got it to work, lol
11:47 AM jesseg: oh, you were trying to PWM it to drop 12v to 6v?
11:47 AM fragalot: yeah
11:48 AM fragalot: but I never got the P-channel gate driver to work right
11:48 AM jesseg: that would take a decently sized and heatsank set of fets
11:48 AM fragalot: jesseg: well it was only about 300A .. ish :D
11:49 AM Lcvette: pfred: it seemed easy when i was doing it wrong...lol
11:51 AM fragalot: Lcvette: since you're going with discrete components anyway, might I add a cute suggestion?
11:51 AM Lcvette: of course
11:51 AM fragalot: Lcvette: make the LEDs always flash at a fixed frequency when the transmitter is on, so your receiver knows it works... and when it touches, change the frequency of the LEDs
11:51 AM fragalot: so in both cases, there is a signal going to the receiver
11:51 AM jesseg: fragalot, you might be amused to see one experiment I did - a self oscillating inductive heating osc using N and P channel fets in a full bridge, with no gate drivers: (First attempt with schmatics:) https://videoflier.com/movies/1375516609377182178216 (Second attempt, water cooled:) http://videoflier.com/movies/1378626248179288690116
11:52 AM Lcvette: would that require a second time?
11:52 AM fragalot: argh auto playing videos!
11:52 AM Lcvette: timer?
11:53 AM Lcvette: or a switch to route the timer legs through a different resistor i guess
11:53 AM fragalot: Lcvette: exactly.
11:53 AM fragalot: you just put another resistor in parallel, or short one that was in series
11:53 AM fragalot: either way would work
11:55 AM Tom_L: or do it in software :D
11:55 AM fragalot: could do, but since Lcvette is only just starting out with electronics.. keeping it discrete is nicer
11:56 AM pfred1: jesseg they sell those things in China
11:56 AM Lcvette: i am game to tackle software if it's not too complicated
11:57 AM jesseg: pfred1, yeah theirs are better. But this was sooner :P and much more compact, and water cooled :D
11:57 AM Lcvette: and shrinks the circuit board
11:57 AM Lcvette: lol
11:57 AM fragalot: Lcvette: essentially, in the world of embedded, you can spend more than half of your time debugging the debugger :P
11:57 AM pfred1: jesseg I hear the right kind of capacitors is hard to get
11:57 AM Lcvette: ah
11:58 AM fragalot: you won't shrink your board to less than what you have now
11:58 AM Lcvette: even that little one Tom_L sent earlier?
11:58 AM jesseg: pfred1, and this was kind of a challenge to do it with very few components. The Royer Osc topology was just very interesting due to how there was nothing other than the fets and the caps and the output coil plus an input inductor
11:58 AM fragalot: Lcvette: that little board was ONLY for communication
11:58 AM Lcvette: oh
11:59 AM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8
12:00 PM jesseg: yeah bye :P
12:00 PM pfred1: that nail has a good glow to it
12:00 PM jesseg: pfred1, yeah the camera is sensitive to IR :P
12:01 PM pfred1: it is a good thing you didn't upzip in the video
12:02 PM pfred1: put the other thumb drive in the coil
12:02 PM jesseg: LOL....
12:02 PM pfred1: what are the ycalled a ZFS drive?
12:03 PM jesseg: I think so
12:03 PM jesseg: although that could refer to any scheme, even a CPU driven switching system as long as the switching took place during zero current
12:03 PM jesseg: this one naturally takes place at zero current
12:04 PM pfred1: I've been fixing on getting into making SMPS
12:04 PM jesseg: cool
12:04 PM pfred1: I just ordered an inductance meter
12:05 PM pfred1: and sole new soldering iron tips so I'm gearing up for some electronics
12:06 PM pfred1: I want to see what passing some pulses into coils does
12:07 PM pfred1: I might need some new transistors though
12:09 PM jesseg: pfred1, the current in a coil is essentially equal to the (voltage/inductance)*time. At a given inductance and voltage, the current rises linearly from zero until the core saturates or the coil melts or the wires going to the coil melts.
12:09 PM jesseg: Of course with small values of henries the time it takes to saturate or reach huge currents is very very short
12:09 PM pfred1: those were some neat wires coming off that coil
12:10 PM jesseg: huh?
12:10 PM pfred1: I've never seen anything quite like them before other than maybe high end speaker wire
12:10 PM jesseg: oh in the video, LOL they are just stranded 10 gauge copper speaker wire with red transparent jacket
12:11 PM jesseg: they are pretty
12:11 PM pfred1: ah so it is audophile speaker wire
12:11 PM jesseg: actually it is, someone gave me scraps
12:11 PM pfred1: audiophile even
12:11 PM jesseg: I'm not at all an audiophile
12:11 PM pfred1: yeah that stuff is a scam
12:11 PM jesseg: yup
12:11 PM pfred1: how many Watts would yo uneed ot need wire that big?
12:11 PM jesseg: huh?
12:11 PM pfred1: 100,000 Watt stereo?
12:11 PM jesseg: oh gotcha
12:12 PM pfred1: 16 gauge zip cord is plenty for most applications
12:12 PM pfred1: heck hair driers run on the stuff
12:12 PM jesseg: well, if your speakers are 4 ohms and you're running two in parallel for 2 ohms, then yeah regular zip cord at 0.01 ohms is only going to lose a percent
12:13 PM fragalot: skin effect.
12:13 PM pfred1: that's what the volume knob is for to make up for losses
12:13 PM pfred1: people think they have oscilloscopes for ears or something
12:14 PM fragalot: i've got my speakers bi-wired with 6AWG :P
12:14 PM pfred1: I'm sure copper miners are thanking you
12:14 PM fragalot: probably
12:14 PM fragalot: no regrets though
12:15 PM pfred1: I'm also sure in a side by side comparison you couldn't tell your wire apart from some zip cord
12:15 PM fragalot: depends on the wire gauge
12:15 PM jesseg: but if you're putting 260W into 2 ohms, that's only 11.5 amps so yeah no problem for even 14 awg
12:16 PM fragalot: these speakers do need more than a simple .75mm² zip cord
12:16 PM fragalot: otherwise they're just a waste of money
12:17 PM pfred1: I'm setting up a new surround system for this PC as soon as I get the TOSlink cable for it
12:17 PM jesseg: yeah get large format coaxial litz wire, do it right my friend, you want to hear every detail
12:17 PM pfred1: I scored a Sony 5.1 surround Blue Ray player for $10
12:17 PM jesseg: or better yet, put the amps IN the speaker boxes and run fiber optic LOL
12:18 PM pfred1: the thing listed for $599 new
12:19 PM pfred1: they managed to butcher up their speaker wires pretty good trying to splice them
12:19 PM pfred1: so I just took out their crap splices and respliced everything
12:19 PM fragalot: I only connect my appliances using the Denon AK-DL1 as well to make sure the bytes sound better
12:20 PM pfred1: I bought about the cheapest cable I could find out of China
12:21 PM pfred1: It cost me a whopping $3.57
12:21 PM pfred1: I'm sure it'll be fine
12:21 PM jesseg: was it oxygen free copper clad aluminum? LOL
12:22 PM pfred1: nah it's optical
12:22 PM fragalot: jesseg: with superconductor coils
12:22 PM pfred1: a Toslink cable for SPDIF
12:22 PM pfred1: I can't figure out any other way to connect my PC to that Blu Ray player
12:23 PM pfred1: I just hope I can get it all working
12:23 PM pfred1: this is unknown territory for me
12:24 PM pfred1: digital out
12:24 PM pfred1: me and computer audio has a checkered history
12:27 PM fragalot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJWXgWrK82k
12:27 PM fragalot: that's the first good use for 'm that i've found, lol
12:29 PM pfred1: jesseg I am checking out your "new soldernig board" video
12:29 PM pfred1: sounds a bit racist
12:30 PM pfred1: small amounts of flux funmes don't bother me
12:31 PM pfred1: but I don't recommend anyone dump a whole pound rool of flux core solder into a molten pot of solder
12:31 PM pfred1: that needs ventilation
12:41 PM jesseg: pfred1, hmmm. what's racist?
12:42 PM pfred1: soldernig
12:42 PM pfred1: https://videoflier.com/movies/1526708610139522289468
12:42 PM jesseg: HAHAHA ok gotcha I hadn't noticed that.
12:43 PM jesseg: there reload see if its fixed now :P
12:43 PM jesseg: thanks btw :D
12:43 PM pfred1: much better
12:43 PM jesseg: well folks off to church. Cya all later!
12:47 PM * gloops gives in and pours a glass
12:48 PM fragalot: or cucumber juice?
12:48 PM fragalot: of*
12:48 PM gloops: vino reddo
12:49 PM fragalot: grape juice :p
12:49 PM gloops: purely for medicinal purposes
12:50 PM gloops: clouded up earlier, its made it worse, like being under a heat lamp
12:50 PM pfred1: it was so cold this last winter I'm not complaining about any heat this summer
12:51 PM gloops: it was a bad winter here too pfred1
12:51 PM pfred1: I had some plants I brought on my 3 season room to keep them out of the cold and they all died
12:52 PM gloops: i had an engine freeze up, not heard of that here for 30 years
12:53 PM fragalot: I prefer cold to heat, personally
12:53 PM gloops: i do
12:53 PM pfred1: extremes of either are not good
12:53 PM fragalot: granted, when I say cold, I mean like.. -15°C at the lowest :P
12:54 PM gloops: i can live with harsh cold, comfortable with it
12:54 PM pfred1: not me
12:54 PM pfred1: can't do a lot of things in the cold
12:54 PM fragalot: it's heat I can't stand
12:54 PM gloops: prolonged hot spells i dont like, its ok for beach days buts thats about it
12:54 PM gloops: i never have a clear head when its hot like this
12:55 PM pfred1: it is only 94F here today
12:55 PM gloops: lol, only
12:55 PM pfred1: that's not so bad
12:55 PM pfred1: now 105F is hot
12:55 PM gloops: what does it get up to pfred1?
12:56 PM pfred1: for here this is pretty hot
12:56 PM pfred1: it usually only gets up to about 86F or so
12:56 PM pfred1: but we have a lot of humidity so 86F can be pretty oppressive
12:57 PM gloops: the army sorts men out into 2 groups for hot places, there are 2 types
12:57 PM gloops: type a you can drop straight in the jungle in high temps and they are fine out of the plane - for a short while, a few weeks maybe
12:57 PM gloops: then they drop
12:58 PM gloops: type b is useless at first, but slowly gets acclimatised - theyre fine after that
12:58 PM pfred1: you can get used to the heat
12:59 PM pfred1: the cold just wears though
12:59 PM fragalot: I can't join the army. bone spurs you see. :3
12:59 PM pfred1: when it was my time to join nothing was going on
12:59 PM gloops: theyll have you when all the fit young men are gone fragalot
12:59 PM pfred1: I was of age in the early 80s
01:00 PM pfred1: I ended up seeing more men die in the trenches in the private sector than if I'd have joined up
01:00 PM fragalot: gloops: see but i've also got astmha, blind in one eye & poor sight in the other, can't hear worth a damn, and i'm missing a leg and 4 fingers
01:00 PM fragalot: all due to those violent video games :P
01:01 PM gloops: also a strong inclination to exaggerate fragalot?
01:01 PM pfred1: I want ot get violent over sound support in Zandronum
01:01 PM fragalot: oh, and type 1 diabetic
01:01 PM fragalot: ...and a severe case of hemoroids
01:01 PM gloops: denmark score after 58 seconds...
01:01 PM pfred1: It has got me thinking about getting a sound card again
01:01 PM gloops: they could still do a lot with you fragalot
01:01 PM fragalot: gloops: also i'm gay
01:01 PM pfred1: don't ask don't tell
01:02 PM gloops: front of the queue then..
01:02 PM pfred1: if you're gay you want ot serve on a submarine
01:02 PM gloops: are you still working with the plastic pfred1?
01:02 PM fragalot: hah
01:02 PM pfred1: not lately too hot to cook plastic
01:02 PM fragalot: I consider myself more general material anyway
01:02 PM gloops: yes theres always a place for a lively cabin boy
01:03 PM fragalot: tell people to fly a drone out somewhere remote whilst I sit safely in a bunker in a black-site
01:03 PM pfred1: a submarine is just a can filled with seamen
01:03 PM gloops: signals is the obvious post for you fragalot
01:03 PM fragalot: have I mentioned the narcolepsy?
01:04 PM pfred1: if there was a decent war going on when I was of age I'd have gone in
01:04 PM fragalot: not to mention the epileptic fits I get when my tourettes goes off
01:04 PM gloops: wow, could be a few goals in this game 1-1 @ 4 minutes
01:04 PM pfred1: see some real combat
01:04 PM fragalot: gloops: they may be confusing it for a basketball match, score wise
01:05 PM pfred1: I was too young for Nam and too old for Iraq though
01:05 PM gloops: they look very enthusiastic
01:05 PM pfred1: I was robbed!
01:05 PM gloops: well, they werent real wars pfred1
01:06 PM pfred1: they would have been real enough for me
01:06 PM pfred1: if i could have fired a shot in anger I'd have been there
01:06 PM gloops: iraq was mainly testing new weapons and giving the old b52s a blowout
01:07 PM pfred1: hey we have no plans for retiring the B-52 for 75 more years
01:07 PM gloops: get rid of all that old ordnance
01:07 PM pfred1: it is an awesome weapons platform
01:07 PM pfred1: some BUFFs bombed a column of red guard tanks in Iraq and this other column of tanks watched
01:08 PM gloops: we scrapped our vulcan bombers, tragedy that was really, we scrapped everything
01:08 PM pfred1: they got out and ran into the desert
01:08 PM pfred1: they wanted no part of that action
01:08 PM gloops: yeah, it would have been a different story against Rommel
01:08 PM pfred1: he'd have run too
01:09 PM gloops: i dunno, he was pretty good with large scale armour movements
01:09 PM gloops: when he had the petrol
01:09 PM pfred1: can't out move a jet bomber in a tank
01:10 PM gloops: the germans had jets before america
01:10 PM pfred1: fat lot of good it did them
01:10 PM pfred1: we shot them down on the ground or as they took off
01:10 PM pfred1: ME-262s were sitting ducks on take off
01:11 PM gloops: http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Me-262-Reproduction.jpg
01:11 PM pfred1: the 163 komet was OK though
01:11 PM gloops: well, it was touch and go, another 6 months the yanks would have been in real trouble
01:11 PM pfred1: watching that thing take off is like watching an old hand cranked movie
01:11 PM pfred1: no way
01:11 PM gloops: yes the british Comet was the first jet fighter/bomber
01:12 PM pfred1: we made more tanks in a month than the germans made in the whole war
01:12 PM pfred1: they never grasped the scale of the war until it was far too late
01:12 PM gloops: hitler had 1000 mini subs almost complete, your navy would have been destroyed
01:13 PM gloops: and 500 me 262s
01:13 PM pfred1: we ended the war with 72 qaircraft carriers above the waves
01:13 PM gloops: could have been a game changer
01:13 PM pfred1: no it wouldn't have been
01:13 PM pfred1: the germans lacked the resources
01:13 PM pfred1: we'd have just nuked them
01:13 PM gloops: because they bit off too much
01:14 PM gloops: but if dunkirk had failed, would have been a different story
01:14 PM pfred1: that's why we built the bomb they surrendered before we had a chance to use it on them though
01:14 PM gloops: the bomb was about stopping stalin
01:14 PM pfred1: no it wasn't
01:14 PM gloops: it was already known hitler would fail
01:14 PM gloops: stalin could easily have overrun all europe
01:15 PM pfred1: we thought the Germans could have developed an atomic weapon
01:15 PM pfred1: but as it turns out they didn't have the resources for that either
01:15 PM gloops: the brits destroyed the only heavy water plant at Telemark
01:15 PM * Loetmichel just "painted" 10 meters quad black stripe on the asphalt. Including white smoke from the wheel wells... seems those 17 logged errors in the ABS controller arent there for decoration... should repair that... :-)
01:15 PM pfred1: the Manhattan Project is one of the largest engineering projects in human history
01:16 PM pfred1: it takes more than heavy water to make a bomb
01:16 PM Lcvette: how about this?
01:16 PM Lcvette: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F231814311946
01:16 PM gloops: you cant make a bomb without it though
01:16 PM pfred1: sure you can
01:16 PM gloops: you couldnt then
01:16 PM pfred1: we used uraninum and plutonium
01:17 PM fragalot: gloops: depends on how much you care about the workers handling the materials
01:17 PM fragalot: you can get by with very little if you don't.
01:17 PM Lcvette: is this a chip?
01:17 PM gloops: plenty of russian labour around at the time
01:17 PM pfred1: heavy water is only for making H bombs you need a fission bomb to initiate one of those though
01:17 PM Lcvette: like what you guys were discussing earlier?
01:18 PM fragalot: Lcvette: how much pfred1 has a death-wish
01:18 PM gloops: whats that for Lcvette?
01:18 PM Lcvette: wireless probe discussion from earlier today
01:19 PM Lcvette: started researching w
01:19 PM Lcvette: after looking at some of the links posted i got side tracked on eBay
01:19 PM fragalot: Lcvette: I don't think you can switch that one on & off fast enough
01:19 PM gloops: ahh, probing is not something i need atm
01:19 PM Lcvette: usually good for an hour or two time suck..lol
01:19 PM fragalot: it doesn't appear to have an on/off signal, only power
01:20 PM fragalot: and a big 470µF cap
01:20 PM Lcvette: ah
01:20 PM Lcvette: ok
01:23 PM miss0r: British Standard is such BS!
01:23 PM gloops: !
01:23 PM miss0r: :]
01:23 PM gloops: BSW? BSF?
01:23 PM gloops: BSP?
01:23 PM miss0r: In general
01:23 PM fragalot: BSPP or BSPT?
01:24 PM fragalot: shortened or standard?
01:24 PM miss0r: BS is just short for British Standard. My infantile mind finds that amusing
01:24 PM gloops: ive got a bucket full of of old brit nuts and bolts, almost..almost threw them out for scrap yesterday, but i didnt have the heart to do it
01:25 PM miss0r: I also have a bucket of old brit nuts and bolts. Its called a Land Rover :)
01:25 PM fragalot: lol
01:25 PM gloops: british is THE standard miss0r
01:25 PM fragalot: Here we go.
01:25 PM * miss0r ejects
01:25 PM gloops: for just about everything
01:26 PM fragalot: miss0r: so I've done some tests with the rf45 in it's gibless state
01:27 PM gregcnc: miss0r just dropped grenade and ran
01:27 PM fragalot: column back & forth is straight within 0.02mm over the entire length of travel (wear, can't scrape that in because I don't have a large enough reference surface)
01:27 PM fragalot: left to right is absolutely spot on
01:27 PM fragalot: and the table appears to move in a perfect 90° :P
01:28 PM fragalot: with so little effort too that moving 0.001mm back & forth is no issue whatsoever
01:28 PM fragalot: love it.
01:28 PM miss0r|office: woah. That sounds nice
01:28 PM miss0r|office: gregcnc: Not realy 'ran' per say. I just felt like I needed to sit down for this :D
01:29 PM fragalot: miss0r: be honest. you ran upstairs.
01:29 PM miss0r|office: And in all fairness. I do own a Land Rover
01:29 PM gloops: gregcnc it was different in 1940 though
01:29 PM fragalot: can't get stuck in the past gloops
01:29 PM fragalot: be modern
01:29 PM gloops: when we were the only thing standing between you and hitler
01:29 PM fragalot: consume
01:29 PM fragalot: dispose
01:29 PM fragalot: etc
01:29 PM fragalot: guys
01:29 PM fragalot: godwin.
01:30 PM miss0r|office: fragalot: hehe. Its hard to determin what exactly I did.. I have to go up some stairs from the front yard to the 'house level'. Then another sets of stairs to get into the house. Then I take the stairs down into the basement.
01:30 PM fragalot: miss0r|office: let's just agree stairs were involved.
01:30 PM fragalot: and you don't seem the type to just "walk" on stairs
01:31 PM Roguish: fragalot: hey, got any pictures of your machine?
01:31 PM miss0r|office: I like to leave a little something in there for the imagination
01:31 PM fragalot: Roguish: Hell no, it's an ugly bastard that should never see the light of day
01:31 PM miss0r|office: Roguish: no, it didn't happen
01:31 PM fragalot: mechanically sound (now), but an eyesore. :-)
01:32 PM fragalot: also - that grey paint refuses to dry
01:32 PM miss0r|office: I told you not to paint it pink !
01:32 PM Roguish: ugly is good
01:32 PM gloops: sounds ok to me fragalot
01:32 PM Loetmichel: miss0r: why not?
01:32 PM miss0r|office: lol. Is there something wrong with that paint of yours?
01:32 PM fragalot: miss0r|office: dunno, first time i've tried rustoleum
01:32 PM miss0r|office: Loetmichel: It attracts the flamboyant machining crowd
01:33 PM pfred1: thin coats
01:33 PM miss0r|office: fragalot: meh.. the sink based stuff?
01:33 PM fragalot: miss0r|office: http://www.rust-oleum.eu/combicolor
01:34 PM Loetmichel: the lads that had nearly finished their mandatory service term on the boat i did my service on painted it bright pink in a single night... they havent worked that hard on their entire 12 month service term as in that night. imagine the Commanders face when he went on the boat in the next morning ...
01:34 PM fragalot: applied to bare cast iron
01:34 PM pfred1: you prep the metal?
01:34 PM gloops: lol Loetmichel, kinda reminds me of something
01:34 PM pfred1: like wipe it down with lacquer thinner?
01:34 PM fragalot: pfred1: if you count a wire wheel in an angle grinder followed by degreaser as prep, yes
01:34 PM pfred1: yeah that should do it
01:35 PM gloops: should have slapped 2 coats of red oxide on first fragalot + 1 coat of aluminium
01:35 PM miss0r|office: Or just used hammerite
01:35 PM pfred1: if paint really doesn't dry then you have to hit it with the heat lamps
01:35 PM fragalot: miss0r|office: I should have.
01:35 PM pfred1: there's stuff called japan drier too
01:35 PM fragalot: but the shop I went to seems to have converted from hammerite to rustoleum a few weeks ago
01:36 PM fragalot: and the other shops I know of have both been bought out by a larger company & are converting their stock (eg. they have NOTHING anymore)
01:36 PM miss0r|office: heh. Next time you go there, they will only be selling hammerite again :D
01:36 PM fragalot: pfred1: I could just leave the door open, hot enough outside :P
01:36 PM Lcvette: machine all good now fragalot?
01:36 PM fragalot: Lcvette: yup, just need me some gibs! :D
01:36 PM miss0r|office: no explaination, and they will deny ever selling that rustolium :D
01:36 PM pfred1: heat is good but direct radiation is the ticket
01:36 PM fragalot: it's only been.. what, 2 weeks?
01:37 PM fragalot: xD
01:37 PM Lcvette: going to make them?
01:37 PM gloops: depends on the paint
01:37 PM pfred1: yeah it should dry faster than 2 weeks
01:37 PM fragalot: Lcvette: hoping to get someone to make them,.. difficult to make gibs if you don't have any machines (or even stock) to do it
01:37 PM pfred1: was this sprayed or rolled or brushed?
01:37 PM fragalot: and I don't feel like filing the whole taper
01:37 PM gloops: something has caused a very slow cure
01:37 PM fragalot: pfred1: roller
01:37 PM pfred1: yeah I know it says don't think it down but
01:37 PM * miss0r|office went to fragalots shop one night and mixed some sewingmachine oil in the paint
01:37 PM pfred1: thin it down even
01:38 PM Lcvette: rf45?
01:38 PM fragalot: miss0r|office: BASTARD! how did you get that into a sealed tin?
01:38 PM pfred1: sometimes a bit of thinner helps
01:38 PM fragalot: Lcvette: Yes.
01:38 PM Lcvette: if imagine you can buy some
01:38 PM miss0r|office: fragalot: Look for a 0.8mm drilles hole in the buttom, with a smilet sticker over it
01:38 PM fragalot: pfred1: perhaps, might help it flash off
01:38 PM Lcvette: I'd
01:38 PM fragalot: but the base layer should dry :P
01:38 PM fragalot: miss0r|office: hehe
01:38 PM pfred1: fragalot yes
01:38 PM miss0r|office: I need to get gone. see you around
01:38 PM fragalot: why on earth would you drill a hole rather than just punch the needle through?
01:38 PM pfred1: I've had fiberglass not kick off for me sometimes too
01:39 PM miss0r|office: fragalot: reasons
01:39 PM Wolf__: make sure its not paint that require hardener
01:39 PM fragalot: also
01:39 PM pfred1: that can be frustrating
01:39 PM fragalot: I put all the bolts in my mold
01:39 PM miss0r|office: :o getting there :D
01:39 PM fragalot: ready to be cast.. next month maybe?
01:39 PM fragalot: don't really want to do it right before I leave on holiday, lol
01:39 PM miss0r|office: if you get some gibs made ;)
01:39 PM fragalot: Wolf__: it's not
01:39 PM miss0r|office: Now I realy need to go, before the wife murders me ;)
01:39 PM miss0r|office: see you around
01:39 PM fragalot: cya miss0r|office
01:39 PM gloops: pfred1 grp is a chemical cure only, evaporation doesnt play any big part
01:40 PM Loetmichel: miss0r / gloops : and that was no small vessel either... 70m long, 700brt, ~7000hp diesels ;)
01:40 PM gloops: i suspect fragalot has used wrong thinners
01:40 PM fragalot: gloops: how about no thinners?
01:40 PM pfred1: gloops MEK makes the glass hot
01:40 PM Lcvette: fragalot is it a true rf45 or clone?
01:40 PM gloops: ahh no thinners - thats it
01:40 PM Loetmichel: all painted in that flourescent pink paint meant for stem/hydraulic pipes ,)
01:40 PM fragalot: Lcvette: a poorly described rf45 clone :D
01:40 PM Loetmichel: steam
01:41 PM Lcvette: band?
01:41 PM pfred1: put too much hardener into resin and it'll combust
01:41 PM Lcvette: brand?
01:41 PM fragalot: I got the central oiler on it to work too.. turns out the checkvalve/orifice valves I thought I had were piston dosing valves
01:41 PM Roguish: fragalot: come on, let's see some pics.
01:41 PM fragalot: which don't work well with a hand pump
01:41 PM fragalot: Lcvette: HBM from 2008
01:41 PM gloops: with 2 pack paints you should never put heavy coats on
01:41 PM Lcvette: HBM?
01:41 PM fragalot: Roguish: once the gibs are in
01:41 PM gloops: first coat should only be a dust coat
01:42 PM fragalot: Lcvette: https://www.hbm-machines.com/ dutch chinagoods box shifter
01:42 PM pfred1: we ain't painting concourse show cars here
01:42 PM Roguish: i want to see this composite mold and setup
01:43 PM fragalot: gloops: http://www.rust-oleum.eu/combicolor <= this is what I used. application: roller, for application onto bare metal, primer and topcoat in one, single layer required.
01:43 PM pfred1: high humidity can make paint not setup too
01:43 PM gloops: Roguish dont give in to the temptation, fragalots hair has turned white in 6 months
01:43 PM fragalot: Roguish: will show it some other time, honestly can't be arsed to go outside in the heat anymore today
01:44 PM fragalot: pfred1: that might be it, though it's so dry that the sahara dust is coating everything
01:44 PM pfred1: that's why lamps beat air flow
01:45 PM pfred1: I have infrared heat lamps for curing paint
01:45 PM pfred1: stuff works
01:45 PM pfred1: I've pushed the painting season envelope more than once
01:46 PM gloops: shouldnt have much trouble with that kind of paint though
01:46 PM fragalot: turns out i'm not the only one having issues with rustoleum not drying
01:46 PM pfred1: yeah low VOC environmental stuff makes paint suck today
01:46 PM gloops: maybe didnt stir it fragalot?
01:46 PM pfred1: you have to add all the good poisions back in yourself
01:47 PM fragalot: gloops: had 'm put it in the shaker at the shop, and used an electric stirrer at home
01:47 PM Lcvette: fragalot: is it similar to this machine? https://www.grizzly.com/products/Heavy-Duty-Benchtop-Mill-Drill-with-Power-Feed-and-Tapping/G0761
01:47 PM fragalot: perhaps it's TOO stirred :P
01:48 PM fragalot: Lcvette: similar, except i've got a big bastard of a motor, and the quill handles have balls on them, and the control panel is.. well, broken,.. but a plastic start/stop only
01:48 PM fragalot: oh and a separate reverse & motor speed selector
01:48 PM fragalot: no power feed though,.. that's on the to-do list
01:49 PM pfred1: that's a Sieg X3
01:49 PM Lcvette: just saying perhaps replacements are available for your gibbs
01:50 PM Lcvette: i purchased replacements for my G0704 and they come extra long and require fitting
01:50 PM fragalot: Lcvette: I re-machined the ways, so unless the replacement ones are much thicker than they need to be, or much longer, they will not work
01:50 PM fragalot: hm...
01:50 PM pfred1: https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/M153
01:50 PM fragalot: any idea where I could get those?
01:50 PM Lcvette: they are
01:50 PM Lcvette: about 5" longer
01:51 PM fragalot: interesting!
01:51 PM Lcvette: and thicker
01:51 PM fragalot: http://docdro.id/f4JyxiW <= these are the dimensions (approx) that I would need now
01:51 PM fragalot: http://docdro.id/muT2CGM
01:52 PM fragalot: So where would one obtain said replacement gibs?
01:53 PM Lcvette: damn just looked, they are not available for that machine in the parts list
01:53 PM Lcvette: https://www.grizzly.com/products/g0761/parts
01:53 PM pfred1: I took the gib out of my machine and it looked like they surfaced it by throwing it on a gravel road and driving over it
01:54 PM Lcvette: but there is a part number
01:54 PM fragalot: pfred1: haha yeah same on mine
01:54 PM fragalot: suspended it from 2 points too when they did that
01:54 PM pfred1: fragalot I think they're supposed to be that way to hold oil?
01:55 PM Lcvette: not bent or bowed
01:55 PM fragalot: pfred1: thye are indeed supposed to be flaked, but they are also supposed to be flat, which they weren't on mine
01:55 PM pfred1: yeah mine has a bow in it too
01:55 PM fragalot: Lcvette: mine were twisted too
01:55 PM fragalot: totally useless :D
01:55 PM Loetmichel: whats a gib?
01:55 PM Lcvette: the replacements i got we flat
01:55 PM Lcvette: were*
01:55 PM pfred1: it may get bowed in use?
01:56 PM Lcvette: stockers were bent
01:56 PM Lcvette: no
01:56 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: tapered piece of metal that wedges in between dovetails to adjust them
01:56 PM Lcvette: gets bowed from over tightening from factory
01:56 PM fragalot: pfred1: no, if it bends that's because either they didn't care, or it wasn't aged
01:56 PM Lcvette: or poor Machining
01:56 PM pfred1: or i might have over tightened it?
01:56 PM fragalot: you CAN bend most back
01:56 PM fragalot: and re-scrape them
01:56 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: ah. those small "knife" like thingys to adjust play?
01:56 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: wouldn't say small, but yes.
01:57 PM Lcvette: good should only be tightened to stop movement not actually "tight"
01:57 PM pfred1: in any event it works fine
01:57 PM fragalot: anyway we're going off track here
01:57 PM fragalot: I believe we were talking about replacement gibs for my machine? :D
01:57 PM pfred1: what way oil I use was the biggest difference with the ways of my machine
01:58 PM pfred1: I swear by chainsaw bar lube personally gives a nice feel
01:58 PM Lcvette: if you have a local shop they should be able to make some
01:58 PM gregcnc: loetmichel keilleiste?
01:58 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Evans-Patent-Rolling-Machine/232819291493? < for rolling what?
01:58 PM fragalot: Lcvette: yeah i've got 2 guys lined up for that, but if there was an off the shelf solution that'd be nice
01:58 PM Loetmichel: gregcnc: yes
01:58 PM Loetmichel: thats the german word
01:58 PM syy__: rolling cigaretts, gloops
01:58 PM Loetmichel: just didnt knew "gib"
01:58 PM fragalot: gloops: for rolling patents
01:58 PM fragalot: it says so in the name
01:58 PM Lcvette: they still generally need Machining or grinding
01:59 PM Loetmichel: you'll learn new things every day ;)
01:59 PM syy__: machinery manufacturers will have gib-blanks
01:59 PM gloops: ahh yes, well spotted syy__
01:59 PM Lcvette: mine were to thick
01:59 PM fragalot: Lcvette: scraping them in isn't an issue
01:59 PM syy__: but there is nothing off-the-shelf generaly
01:59 PM gloops: some would have taken that to be bigger than it looks
01:59 PM fragalot: syy__: any suggestions for which one to contact for a 2008 vintage low grade rf45 clone?
02:00 PM Lcvette: you good d at scraping?
02:00 PM syy__: maybe a priest? for some faithfull help ;)
02:00 PM fragalot: Lcvette: good enough if I take my time
02:00 PM syy__: problem is, there are so many hole-in-the-wall-companies that build the rf45 style machines
02:00 PM fragalot: syyl's tips have made a huge difference
02:00 PM fragalot: syy__: Yup. :D at least i've got drawings of the gibs I need?
02:00 PM Lcvette: yeah gibs are difficult to scrape
02:01 PM syy__: if you get a gib from -for example- optimum, it might not fit in a real rong-fu-rf45
02:01 PM fragalot: I'm sure it wouldn't
02:01 PM Loetmichel: gloops: funny... i can see that working for cigarrettes... never seen something like it though... usually the small machine here look like that: https://www.ebay.de/i/123063657900
02:01 PM Lcvette: better to have them ground proper then add a light flake
02:02 PM fragalot: I'm also sure that the manufacturer of the machine I have is either no longer in business, or has changed the gibs by now, and can't remember what they were when mine was made :P
02:02 PM syy__: i just machine them from solid
02:02 PM fragalot: Lcvette: managed to scrape the dovetails, fairly sure the gib 'l work out too
02:02 PM syy__: but if thats your only mill, thats not an option, i know ;)
02:02 PM fragalot: syy__: well.. I could make a temporary gib for the X out of JB-weld, and hammer some wooden wedges in the Y
02:03 PM fragalot: :P
02:03 PM gloops: Loetmichel yes the cig machines usually have some fabric or a 'belt' round the rollers
02:03 PM syy__: sounds reasonable ;)
02:03 PM Lcvette: gib has a compound angle
02:03 PM fragalot: or get some ebony and hand-plane it
02:03 PM syy__: or just wedge a banana in
02:03 PM fragalot: Lcvette: it doesn't, actually
02:03 PM syy__: a tapered gib is just a wedge
02:03 PM syy__: with two chamfers
02:03 PM pfred1: I was thinking it may be good to make a wooden model
02:03 PM syy__: nothing compound going on there
02:04 PM Lcvette: the
02:04 PM syy__: i thought for the longest time that they are compound. until i had to make one from scratch :D
02:04 PM Lcvette: uh....
02:04 PM Loetmichel: arent gibs intentionally NOT hardened?
02:05 PM syy__: they are usualy cast iron
02:05 PM Loetmichel: to be weaker than the dovetails an be the part that wears out?
02:05 PM syy__: and all cast iron dovetails are generaly unhardened
02:05 PM syy__: its a shitty combination, but thats what we are stuck with
02:06 PM Loetmichel: i had some cheap small machinery (proxxon stuff) where the gibs were made from brass and the dovetails from cast iron
02:06 PM syy__: cast on hardened/ground toolsteel would be much nicer
02:06 PM syy__: or turcite on hardened steel
02:06 PM syy__: (thats what kitamura does on their cnc machines)
02:06 PM Loetmichel: whats turcite?
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: most don't care about more than just price
02:07 PM syy__: bronce infused PTFE
02:07 PM Loetmichel: ah
02:07 PM Loetmichel: sounds nice
02:07 PM syy__: gets glued on the way and then machined/scraped
02:07 PM CaptHindsight: is there a market left for people that actually want things made well?
02:07 PM syy__: yeah
02:07 PM syy__: thats why kitamura is still in buisness ;)
02:08 PM pfred1: my mill is a piece of crap and it's over 20 years old now
02:08 PM pfred1: still works
02:08 PM fragalot: syy__: i'm planning to make mine out of brass.. Any comments on that?
02:08 PM syy__: dont
02:08 PM syy__: ;)
02:08 PM fragalot: Right.
02:08 PM pfred1: bronze might not be bad
02:08 PM fragalot: I'mma do it anyway
02:08 PM syy__: if i was stuck on an island and i had to fix my mill
02:08 PM syy__: i would use brass
02:09 PM syy__: to me, its to soft and wears quite fast
02:09 PM gregcnc: bronze is also common
02:09 PM syy__: bronce would be nice
02:10 PM gloops: phosphorus bronze
02:10 PM gregcnc: ampco18
02:10 PM gloops: low melting point - old railway carriage bearings
02:10 PM Lcvette: yeah your right
02:10 PM Lcvette: i just checked my gibs, wedge
02:11 PM Lcvette: hmph
02:11 PM Lcvette: guess the edges the my perception off
02:11 PM fragalot: there's no reason to have a compound angle on them
02:12 PM Lcvette: i would use cast iron
02:12 PM Lcvette: are your ways hardened?
02:12 PM fragalot: yes and no
02:12 PM fragalot: they aren't supposed to be
02:13 PM fragalot: but the manufacturer found it necessary to weld up some spots
02:13 PM Lcvette: ah
02:13 PM fragalot: and those are hard enough to ruin a good carbide scraper :P
02:13 PM fragalot: ..so those spots are now little oil pockets. >.>
02:14 PM Lcvette: your staying manual
02:14 PM fragalot: yes
02:14 PM Lcvette: o not a huge deal then
02:14 PM fragalot: nope
02:14 PM fragalot: light use machine
02:14 PM Lcvette: keep them oiled
02:14 PM fragalot: way ahead of you
02:14 PM Lcvette: last forever
02:14 PM fragalot: installed a nice central oil system
02:14 PM Lcvette: nice
02:15 PM fragalot: from the manufacturer it did not even have oil points
02:15 PM fragalot: like.. literally nothing to lubricate the ways
02:15 PM Lcvette: sweet
02:15 PM fragalot: but it did have a single oil point on the Y handle
02:17 PM fragalot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzAOQlbhUp0 bahaha
02:19 PM gloops: looks tidy https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metal-lathe-DRUMMOND-4-ROUND-BED/183297242247?
02:20 PM Lcvette: did you link achillipeppers video?
02:20 PM fragalot: yes
02:20 PM Lcvette: ok
02:20 PM fragalot: red hot chilly peppers played using chilly peppers
02:21 PM fragalot: gloops: very tidy,.. why would you want a round bed?
02:21 PM gloops: screw is protected
02:21 PM gloops: not that that makes any difference to anything, lol
02:22 PM gloops: it just sounds sensible
02:22 PM fragalot: sounds like hell trying to keep everything aligned to me
02:24 PM gloops: no radial movement in the saddle
02:24 PM gloops: or tailstock
02:25 PM fragalot: there will be movement. no key is perfect
02:25 PM fragalot: or it wouldn't move freely
02:25 PM gloops: someone was going to cnc one - screw protected down middle of round bed - it would make some difference with a ballscrew
02:26 PM fragalot: no reason why you couldn't have the scrw going down the middle of a standard lathe bed, if it was purpose designed for it
02:26 PM fragalot: put telescoping covers on top and you're done
02:26 PM gloops: fragalot no more than with angular ways
02:26 PM fragalot: rigid centre-screw.
02:26 PM fragalot: angular ways allow for zero movement
02:26 PM fragalot: that's the whole point
02:27 PM fragalot: there is a V to line it up back & forth, and a flat surface in the back to keep it level
02:27 PM fragalot: the harder you push down onto it, the more the V keeps it alingde
02:30 PM gloops: they dont move - many thousands of these sold
02:41 PM Lcvette: fragalot: went out and dig these up http://imgur.com/gallery/a92f1Gl
02:42 PM Lcvette: http://imgur.com/gallery/mVeaI9Q
02:42 PM Lcvette: these were what i received as replacements
02:42 PM fragalot: looks about right :P
02:42 PM Lcvette: smaller was stock
02:42 PM fragalot: i'd have guessed it was the other way around, lol
02:43 PM fragalot: did it fit at all as is, or did you first need to remove 1 or 2mm before it would even think about going in?
02:44 PM Lcvette: i had to face a few thou to get it to slide all the way through
02:44 PM fragalot: scraping allowance. nice
02:45 PM Lcvette: at the time i was pissed because the machine was torn apart
02:45 PM fragalot: hehe
02:45 PM Lcvette: more like .025-.030"
02:45 PM fragalot: did you have any issues fitting yours back together?
02:45 PM Lcvette: not scraping allowance
02:46 PM fragalot: because I wanted to give the designers a good talking to
02:46 PM fragalot: can't get to the Y nut when the saddle is in place, and you can't put the saddle in place when the nut is already installed
02:46 PM fragalot: so you have to do some magic getting that together
02:47 PM fragalot: then the X nut needs to come off again because the table can't slide on without that in place
02:47 PM fragalot: but you can't tighten that when the table is in place
02:47 PM fragalot: ._.
02:47 PM Lcvette: luckily the extra length allowed me to reverse two gibs and clamp them down and surface them to height
02:47 PM pfred1: that's what hammers are for
02:47 PM pfred1: I bought another hammer this weekend
02:47 PM pfred1: I knew i didn't need it but I bought it anyways
02:48 PM Lcvette: hammers work for some
02:48 PM pfred1: because it was cheap
02:48 PM gloops: axe/hammer probably the #1 tool ever invented
02:48 PM pfred1: it is kind of an axe hammer
02:48 PM gloops: roofers axe?
02:48 PM Lcvette: sounds precision pfred
02:49 PM pfred1: nah I have those I didn't get another one of them
02:49 PM pfred1: oh it is precision
02:49 PM pfred1: it's an Estwing chipping hammer
02:49 PM pfred1: they retail for like $40
02:49 PM gloops: 80 oz?
02:49 PM pfred1: nah I think it is about 20
02:50 PM pfred1: just guessing by the size of it
02:50 PM gloops: estwings are decent hammers, the leather handle version being superior
02:50 PM Lcvette: fragalot, i used a cup grinding wheel ne spindle for final passes with coolant to make sure it was flat
02:50 PM Lcvette: worked better than i imagined it would
02:51 PM fragalot: lol
02:51 PM pfred1: yeah this has the blue rubber handle
02:52 PM Lcvette: bolted a diamond dresser on the table
02:52 PM pfred1: I went to an estate sale and whatever I grabbed the girl was only charging a buck for any item
02:52 PM Lcvette: poor mans surface grinder
02:52 PM pfred1: so I bought a bunch of crap that Ididn't need
02:52 PM gloops: contrary to popular belief, the hammer was the preferred weapon in medieval times, not the axe
02:53 PM pfred1: including another pair of 10WR USA made Vise Grips
02:53 PM gloops: much easier to penetrate armour plate, you could open a helmet up like a can of sardines with a nice curved spike
02:54 PM pfred1: I must have a dozen of those now
02:54 PM pfred1: but for a buck I can't pass them up
02:54 PM pfred1: you'd have to physically restrain me
02:55 PM gloops: you have rescued them for posterity pfred1
02:55 PM pfred1: maybe I donno
02:55 PM pfred1: it's a disease
02:55 PM pfred1: toolitus
02:56 PM gloops: psychological definitely
02:56 PM gloops: something we have absolutely no use for, or room for - but must possess
02:56 PM pfred1: I'm good with Weller 8600s now
02:56 PM pfred1: ever since I got one mint in box
02:57 PM gloops: its a fetish, no more or less
02:57 PM pfred1: I could have bought a Dremel at that sale
02:57 PM pfred1: but i passed on it
02:58 PM * gloops takes sharp intake of breath
02:58 PM pfred1: they only wanted $5 for the whole kit
02:58 PM pfred1: I have so many rotary tools now though
03:01 PM * Loetmichel needs two new "dremel" (actually proxxon FBS 240) for the company. one has a dead motor bearing and the other smells like hell after a short while (enamel paint from the magnet wire) and gets hot as hell quick.
03:01 PM Loetmichel: neither dremel nor proxxon are meant for 8 hours a workday continous use ;)
03:02 PM Loetmichel: maybe i shoiuldn take them apart and make my own ones out of aluminium enclosures, oversized bearings and bigger beefier motors ;)
03:06 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: get yourself a foredom
03:07 PM fragalot: because those fit your description
03:07 PM pfred1: I have a Foredom
03:07 PM pfred1: they don't run as fast as Dremels do
03:07 PM fragalot: same, and i've got several whip marks on my right shoulder to prove it
03:07 PM pfred1: mine is 13,500 RPM
03:07 PM fragalot: mine's 18k
03:07 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: foredom?
03:07 PM pfred1: flex shaft tool
03:08 PM Loetmichel: have a link?
03:08 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: USA company making flex shaft tooling, I have a local guy that sells 'm
03:08 PM pfred1: I have a Swiss pneumatic ultra high speed rotary tool
03:08 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: http://www.foredom.net/
03:08 PM pfred1: I think IPC brand?
03:08 PM Loetmichel: ah, those thingys
03:08 PM Loetmichel: no, thanks
03:08 PM Loetmichel: flex shaft is a no-go
03:08 PM pfred1: foredom is nice for some things
03:08 PM fragalot: alright
03:09 PM Loetmichel: had that curl around my arm one time to many ;)
03:09 PM fragalot: other than makita I don't know of many decent rotary tools
03:09 PM fragalot: proxxon tries, but their stuff always feels like cheep toys
03:10 PM Loetmichel: a "heavy duty" dremel (pr better proxxon because dremel have atrocious collets and shafts) would be ideal
03:10 PM pfred1: you want a pneumatic die grinder
03:10 PM pfred1: I hace a CP 860 that will take you for a ride
03:10 PM fragalot: pneumatic is expensive to run 8hrs a day
03:10 PM Loetmichel: not as big as a fein "geradschleifer" but somewhere in between a dremel and that
03:10 PM pfred1: it claims 1 horsepower
03:11 PM Loetmichel: pfred1: not a big enough compressor at the company for those air toos
03:11 PM Loetmichel: tools
03:11 PM pfred1: pneumatic will get a lot done in 8 hours
03:11 PM pfred1: take you a month with a Dremel
03:11 PM fragalot: very true, pneumatic is powerful for their size
03:12 PM fragalot: and typically doesn't overheat
03:12 PM pfred1: I also use rotozip tools as rotary tools too
03:12 PM pfred1: I have a couple rotozips
03:13 PM Loetmichel: thats all we got: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15347&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
03:13 PM fragalot: that is not a whole lot of compressor :D
03:14 PM Loetmichel: indeed ;)
03:14 PM Loetmichel: also its quite old
03:14 PM Loetmichel: had to replace the starting cap on that picture
03:14 PM pfred1: the tank on my air compressor is from 1944
03:14 PM Loetmichel: we have two of that size though
03:14 PM Loetmichel: both old as fu**
03:14 PM pfred1: I think it came off a warship
03:15 PM pfred1: it is a real ASME rated tank it is super heavy
03:16 PM pfred1: it used to have a repulsion motor on it
03:16 PM pfred1: which is also super heavy
03:16 PM Loetmichel: a friend of mine once made a compressor of a 60kW 3phase motor and a 1.6 liter golf 4cyl engine with a new head as a compressor... at 2800rpm that 300l tank was at 12 bar in an instant ;)
03:16 PM fragalot: hehe
03:16 PM pfred1: yeah that repulsion motor wasn't very powerful
03:17 PM pfred1: real high powered air compressors tend to be the screw variety
03:18 PM andypugh: A diesel engine should make quite a good high-pressure compressor.
03:18 PM pfred1: that's not what they use though
03:18 PM fragalot: I'm always impressed when I fire up the big atlas copco at work
03:18 PM pfred1: they make great trash pumps
03:18 PM fragalot: we've got a 3000 liter air tank hooked up to it
03:18 PM fragalot: and it fills the damn thing up to 10 bar in about 3 seconds from cold start
03:19 PM fragalot: but.. it does cost something like €500 a day to run the thing, lol
03:19 PM Loetmichel: in fuel?
03:19 PM pfred1: it has something in common with my bar bill then too
03:19 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: it's electric, but yes
03:20 PM fragalot: the little wheel on the power meter becomes a blur when that thing runs, lol
03:21 PM pfred1: wow I haven't seen a mechanical meter in a long time
03:21 PM fragalot: they were still in use up to a year ago here, and are only now being slowly replaced with digital
03:21 PM pfred1: my electric company pioneered data over power lines
03:21 PM Loetmichel: andypugh: the friend made a new head of the gold engine, consisting of a 20mm thick steel bar as wide as the head was... with 100 4mm holes drilled into each cylinder space... and 100 6mm steel balls in that, half of them with the ball falling out the bottom half with the ball falling in from the top
03:22 PM andypugh: By the waym this animation actually shows how a screw compressor works. Whereas most don’t, including the one on Wikipedia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stjvbAO_6JQ
03:22 PM pfred1: so we're all digital for a while
03:22 PM Loetmichel: stepped drills. 8mm nearly thru and then 4mm for the rest
03:22 PM Loetmichel: so that the ball can ratte around in the 8mm part
03:22 PM pfred1: I've taken enough beatings from screw compressors i know how they work
03:22 PM Loetmichel: then another plate on top with cavitys over the halves of intake and output: done
03:23 PM fragalot: hehe
03:23 PM Loetmichel: it could pump up to e few 100 bar... but will rip up the crankshaft evenatually. been there seen that ;)
03:23 PM fragalot: should be fine to continually pump 25 bar though?
03:23 PM fragalot: or even 40
03:24 PM fragalot: I've got a little bicycle pump that I use for my airgun that goes to 250 bar ;-)
03:24 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: it could pump up to 120 bar continously
03:24 PM fragalot: i've been tempted to put a linear actuator on it so I don't have to pump it by hand
03:24 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: I meant without increased wear
03:25 PM andypugh: I ought to know what the normal pumping pressure is on an engine without combustion. I mean I _really_ ought to know.
03:25 PM andypugh: But seem to have forgotten.
03:25 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: no increased wear
03:25 PM Loetmichel: car engines have higher pressures in them when running
03:26 PM andypugh: I do recall being sent some data where the lowest pressure was -2 bar.
03:26 PM fragalot: andypugh: around 23 for your average diesel, I believe?
03:26 PM Loetmichel: andypugh: depends
03:26 PM Loetmichel: diesels up to 30 bar, petrol usually around 15 bar or less
03:27 PM andypugh: Isn’t that 30 bar including combustion?
03:27 PM fragalot: no
03:27 PM fragalot: that's just the compression ratio
03:29 PM Loetmichel: andypugh: depends on the engine
03:29 PM Loetmichel: i have worked on "all fuel" dieses that compress 1:30
03:29 PM Loetmichel: without combustion
03:29 PM Loetmichel: but usually its around 1:20 to 1:25
03:29 PM Loetmichel: diesels
03:30 PM Loetmichel: with combustion you are in the 200++ bar range
03:30 PM Loetmichel: for a short moment at OT
03:30 PM andypugh: When I say I “should know” I mean because I have spent weeks at a time sat in a dyno staring at live pressure traces. But I normally cared a lot more about the shape and gradient than the peak pressure.
04:08 PM Tom_L: andypugh, in the neighborhood of 150psi
04:14 PM Lcvette: cylinder pressure in a combustion engine not firing ranges depending on many factors, but generally is between 125-225psi
04:19 PM pfred1: sounds legit
04:19 PM pfred1: I need to rebuild the engine on my leaf blower it is whopped out now
04:20 PM pfred1: it is probably around 10 PSI
04:27 PM Lcvette: needs a turbo
04:28 PM pfred1: it needs a ring job
04:28 PM Tom_L: rebuild cost worth it on one of those?
04:28 PM pfred1: yeah a new one is like $1,200 or so
04:29 PM Lcvette: squirt a lottle marvel mystery oil in it roll on
04:29 PM Lcvette: leaf blower?
04:29 PM pfred1: I have a Giant Vac leaf blower
04:29 PM pfred1: you know one of them red blowers on wheels?
04:29 PM Lcvette: ah
04:29 PM pfred1: big property
04:30 PM Lcvette: what motor?
04:30 PM pfred1: it has a briggs 5 HP
04:30 PM Lcvette: man those are like $99
04:30 PM pfred1: it sucked up its air filter and i kept running it
04:31 PM pfred1: yeah a ring kit will be like $5
04:31 PM Lcvette: just swap the motor
04:31 PM pfred1: plus it's an old briggs
04:31 PM pfred1: I don't know how old I bought it used
04:31 PM pfred1: I put an electronic ignition in it and it ran great for a long time
04:32 PM pfred1: the ignition system cost like $60
04:32 PM Lcvette: if it's that worn out, a ring job probably is a half measure repair
04:32 PM pfred1: yeah I'm OK with rebuilding it I have all of the tools
04:33 PM pfred1: isn't everything a half measure?
04:33 PM pfred1: if i can get as much use otu of it as I already have I'm good
04:33 PM Lcvette: check your bore and piston measurements make sure they are in does
04:33 PM Lcvette: spec*
04:34 PM pfred1: I'll just ream it hone it ans toss in a new set of rings
04:34 PM pfred1: I'm sure it'll be fine
04:34 PM pfred1: it just has to blow leaves it doesn't have to win at Indy
04:35 PM Tom_L: it needs enough *poof* to blow em in the neighbor's yard...
04:35 PM pfred1: no neighbors here
04:35 PM pfred1: it has to blow the leaves off my lawn into my woods though
04:36 PM pfred1: up to last year it was doing the job but now it's tired
04:37 PM pfred1: it can't blow leaves over how tall it is which is about 2 feet
04:38 PM Lcvette: used to build those motors as a kid for gocarts
04:39 PM Lcvette: deck the heads, lap the valves, clean up the intake and exhaust ports, run a straight pipe header tuned to length for higher rpm, high flow Intel come on carb
04:40 PM Tom_L: i used mccullough on my cart
04:40 PM Lcvette: never heard of it
04:41 PM Tom_L: http://go-kart-engines.net/mcculloch-91b1-racing-go-kart-engine-nos-mac-motor/
04:41 PM Tom_L: similar
04:42 PM Lcvette: sounds pro
04:42 PM Tom_L: 2 stroke with a pipe
04:43 PM Lcvette: we were kids with lawn mowing money jobs
04:43 PM Lcvette: scraping change together
04:44 PM Tom_L: i made one from wood too
04:45 PM Lcvette: that's how we started
04:45 PM Lcvette: and plastic lawn mower wheels
04:45 PM Lcvette: rope pull steering
04:45 PM Lcvette: lol
04:45 PM Tom_L: foot steering with a bolt thru the middle of a board
04:45 PM Lcvette: good times
04:46 PM Lcvette: we did that but Dad said wasn't safe
04:46 PM Tom_L: ran .67 cc on my race boat.. put out around 5hp
04:46 PM Lcvette: we were 7 or 8 at the time
04:47 PM Lcvette: circa 1982ish
04:47 PM Tom_L: https://www.mantuamodel.co.uk/products/ops-engines/marine/1601/op-67-marine-engine-drum-detail
04:48 PM Tom_L: ~400ish a pop
04:49 PM Lcvette: nice
04:49 PM Tom_L: didn't run the stock carb though
04:49 PM Tom_L: or expansion pipe
04:50 PM Tom_L: considering the size of a 5hp briggs...
04:52 PM Lcvette: was this a rc?
04:52 PM Tom_L: yes
04:53 PM Lcvette: ok
04:53 PM Tom_L: my bud was machining rods etc for em
04:53 PM Tom_L: lighter flywheels
04:54 PM Lcvette: nice
04:54 PM Tom_L: lotsa fun
04:56 PM pfred1: my uper power is breaking things so light things and me don't stay together for long
04:57 PM pfred1: super power even
04:57 PM pfred1: the impeller on my Giant Vac is about a quarter of an inch thick so it's holding up good so far
04:58 PM pfred1: though I did manage to put my jacket throug hit once
05:08 PM Deejay: gn8
05:45 PM andypugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewptevBIqNk An African Grey parrot using Alexa.
05:47 PM pfred1: Alexa make me a sammich
08:06 PM Tom_L: does freecad post to lcnc?
08:12 PM XXCoder: hmm maybe?
09:36 PM Tecan: https://files.cults3d.com/uploaders/13573075/illustration-file/44441cb3-1f60-4b3b-8465-563600ff1214/ezgif.com-video-to-gif_large.gif
09:37 PM XXCoder: that website meta config is broken
09:37 PM Tecan: https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/art/text-flip-flamingo this links better i guess
09:39 PM XXCoder: that is awesome
09:39 PM XXCoder: its simple 2 domension slices
09:39 PM XXCoder: yet awesome :D
09:40 PM XXCoder: https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/art/text-flip-idea I like that idea
10:25 PM CaptHindsight: in aluminum?
10:26 PM CaptHindsight: they should make kids toys like that
10:27 PM CaptHindsight: werdslearnin
10:44 PM XXCoder: alum not easy to make those in
10:44 PM XXCoder: wood maybe
10:44 PM XXCoder: 3d printer its much simpler