#linuxcnc Logs

Jun 14 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:04 AM Tom_L: https://tinyurl.com/y9myuy7d
12:08 AM Tom_L: 92mm frame 1100w probably closer to what i'm after i think
12:13 AM RyanS: i need inspiration on what to 3d print. I don't want plastic crap on display, well unless it's heavily post processed and painted
12:14 AM Tom_L: print parts for metal casting
12:15 AM RyanS: I want to make an orerry but unless it's brass and wood, lame
12:16 AM RyanS: I have a furnace just got to get around to buying a crucible
12:17 AM RyanS: oil bonded sand is the best but I think you need to make a mulling machine
12:24 AM RyanS: never tried printing gears but it would be faster just to mill it with the electronic indexing head
01:11 AM IchGucksLive: morning from cold germany 10deg outside in june
01:17 AM IchGucksLive: im off till later
02:29 AM Deejay: moin
03:56 AM RyanS: i can sort of understand that to arrive at the required motor size for a 3d printer, plasma cutter or laser you use weight of each axis, inertia, speed, friction and efficiency of the drives. but mills or routers add cutting force and that's going to vary by materials and depth of cut. is that complex to calculate?
03:58 AM SpeedEvil: You can look it up in big tables, which is generally the simplest way
03:59 AM SpeedEvil: In real life, it varies lots and is not very simple to calculate.
04:01 AM SpeedEvil: http://s3.cnccookbook.com/CCCNCMillFeedsSpeedsDeflect.htm seems reasonable
04:08 AM RyanS: so hobbyists mostly get by with a rough estimate? I imagine industrial machines are designed to fairly narrow parameters based on the end use
04:18 AM SpeedEvil: You can't in general predict accurately cutting forces without being very very specific about process.
04:18 AM SpeedEvil: For example, the precise sharpness of the cutter will matter.
04:18 AM SpeedEvil: And that will vary lots over its life.
04:20 AM RyanS: interesting
04:20 AM SpeedEvil: As a very rough approximation, it needs enough force to be able to snap all but the biggest tooling you intend to put in it.
04:20 AM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: to snap it?
04:20 AM Loetmichel: or just to do max load?
04:21 AM Loetmichel: :-)
04:21 AM SpeedEvil: Loetmichel: If you're running max load on a 13mm cutter (for example), that will easily snap an 8.
04:22 AM RyanS: I guess machine tools have a lot of design testing behind them too
04:22 AM gloops: just get nema 34s 4.5nM + for a router
04:23 AM SpeedEvil: If you can do the task by hand, it's quite easy to answer 'how much force am I applying' and then use that figure
04:24 AM * Loetmichel is pissed. Boss wife doesent learn that ordering enclosures for 26 eur from her china chronies instead for 127 eur locally here in germany sounds good bit fires back when each and every delivery from then has a different fault. Coworker just wanted to fit the front bezels of a few 24" monitors... just to notice that the frames have a roughly 1" too wide cutout for the TFT... and
04:24 AM * Loetmichel delivery date to OUR customer is tomorrow...
04:24 AM SpeedEvil: cutting a 6mm 12mm deep groove at 40000RPM in oak takes almost no force compared to cutting the similar at 2000RPM in hard steel.
04:25 AM SpeedEvil: Loetmichel: oops
04:25 AM SpeedEvil: 'those strips are decorative'!
04:25 AM SpeedEvil: At least it was too wide.
04:25 AM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: nope, the shielding glass falls thru
04:27 AM SpeedEvil: oops
04:29 AM Loetmichel: as i said: about 1" too wide
04:30 AM RyanS: the speed range I need on my plasma ( hypertherm recommended) is 5560 to 1430mm/min (218 to 56 ipm). but the unit can do 7890mm/min to 435mm/min. is that too much to ask from steppers?
04:30 AM Loetmichel: and the galss has only 2* 6mm wide copper busbar at the edge, so its smaller than the hole
04:31 AM RyanS: German precision required :-)
04:31 AM Loetmichel: RyanS: slower is always possible with steppers
04:31 AM Loetmichel: so thats not a problem usually
04:31 AM gloops: hmm, depends on the weight of the gantry, you will get those speeds from small steppers, may require some mechanical gearing though
04:31 AM gloops: asuming the gantry isnt a deadweight should be ok
04:32 AM RyanS: so I can't go direct drive?
04:33 AM RyanS: I was aiming for 50kg max gantry weight
04:33 AM gloops: you only get a couple hundred rpm with small steppers before the torque drops off, if you got 300 rpm, 5mm pitch screws - 1500mm/min
04:34 AM gloops: but if the gantry is light and no cutting force, you might not be missing steps until you get quite a lot faster
04:34 AM RyanS: most people do 1:5 reduction, or is it 5:1
04:34 AM gloops: i get 5000mm/min from 1 425oz stepper on the Y axis - but geared up 3-1
04:35 AM RyanS: thats the axis the gantry runs on?
04:36 AM gloops: the X axis struggles over 4200mm/min with 2 425oz motors
04:36 AM gloops: X is the gantry
04:37 AM gloops: ive got 2 replacement 4.5nm motors to fit
04:38 AM RyanS: y is what the z moves on? ( people use different definition of x and y)
04:38 AM gloops: yes y is what z moves on
04:38 AM gloops: in my view
04:38 AM gloops: i always call the long axis X
04:39 AM gloops: my machine cant go much faster anyway, regardless of motors
04:39 AM RyanS: yeah that makes the most sense
04:39 AM gloops: you find out how well you built it when its throwing a 50kg gantry around heh
04:41 AM gloops: i made the base frame from 50mm box, triangulated, bolted to the floor - it still judders when the gantry stops or starts at higher speeds
04:41 AM RyanS: 5mm thick 75mm box was my intention
04:42 AM gloops: if you can, i would go with that
04:43 AM gloops: i mainly used what i could get hold of cheap, but its well made, surprising - when i made the base i hit it with a 3lb hammer and it didnt move much, it can be made to move though throwing the gantry about
04:44 AM RyanS: people have used profile linear ways but that seems bonkers for air plasma
04:45 AM SpeedEvil: Air bearing is clearly the way to go
04:45 AM RyanS: air bearings?
04:46 AM SpeedEvil: nvm
04:47 AM gloops: if i started again i would get the closed loop steppers - 4.5nm plus
04:47 AM gloops: may as well do it, and spend it, once
04:47 AM RyanS: is that a router?
04:47 AM gloops: yeah
04:48 AM gloops: i mean it works fine, it works very well and im happy with it, but theres always that bit of doubt if you up the speed, could miss steps, gantry could jacknife when im not looking, should have had a bit more power
04:48 AM RyanS: but if it looses steps it's already cut the material inaccurately
04:49 AM gloops: yes you really want surplus power to avoid ANY missed steps to start with, you can set the tolerance for error thoguh with closed loop
04:50 AM gloops: and unlike open steppers, it will regain true position, not carry on the rest of the job 5 steps out
04:51 AM RyanS: does that complicate linuxCNC setup?
04:52 AM gloops: well you have to set the encoders up so yeah
04:52 AM gloops: should be fine if you just go for ample open steppers
04:53 AM gloops: mine cuts perfectly at safe speeds, these are only the rock bottom chino steppers and ballscrews
04:55 AM gloops: all that to make wooden hearts https://ibb.co/eb6ohy lol
04:55 AM RyanS: do you think motor quality makes much difference? Maybe better of putting the money into decent drivers?
04:56 AM gloops: https://ibb.co/d6Pr2y
04:57 AM gloops: well, i had some trouble with mine setting it up, blamed the tb6600 drivers, changed them, no difference, to leadshines, the tb6600 did react differently to noise though, but cutting wise - just the same
04:58 AM gloops: motors £25 each, its hardly worth considering wear or lifespan or whatever, just replace them when they fail
04:58 AM XXCoder: nice project
04:59 AM SpeedEvil: As long as you don't overheat or do fucky stuff to the shaft, steppers last basically forever.
04:59 AM gloops: only takes 2 minutes in blender now XXCoder, but sketchup wont slice the model anyway lol, which was my objective
04:59 AM RyanS: so they're simple enough to be accurate whether they're $30 or $100
05:00 AM gloops: i havent used expensive ones so i cant really say, for my purposes a fraction higher precision wouldnt make any difference
05:01 AM SpeedEvil: Very expensive steppers in the same size and step-count may get marginally better performance.
05:01 AM SpeedEvil: But, not better than going a size up usually.
05:02 AM XXCoder: nema 57s ;)
05:03 AM RyanS: hmm 4.5Nm is NEMA 34 are they slower than 23s?
05:03 AM gloops: ive got some quality used Italian motors - placed beside the chinese motors, the chinese ones are laughable
05:03 AM gloops: but they do the job
05:04 AM gloops: RyanS check the data on the motors for the torque/speed relationship
05:04 AM gloops: even if the bigger motors are slower, they can pull higher gearing
05:05 AM RyanS: higher voltage too?
05:05 AM gloops: the ones i got are up to 1500rpm - the nema 23s die long before that
05:05 AM gloops: yeah, 60-80v
05:05 AM XXCoder: dang thats fast
05:07 AM gloops: and another mistake i made - dont get small drivers for your small motors
05:07 AM gloops: get 60v plus drivers, you can put more v into small motors - if the drivers allow it
05:08 AM XXCoder: wonder if stepper can be used as spindle (or driver for spindle)
05:09 AM gloops: dont see why not if strong enough
05:09 AM XXCoder: yeah though I bet rpm limit is lower
05:09 AM RyanS: what about the y axis, get 34s?
05:11 AM gloops: may as well, 1 motor wont break the bank
05:15 AM gloops: its better to be saying - i didnt need these nema 34s, than to be saying - i wish id got nema 34s now
05:15 AM XXCoder: can always build some other machine
05:16 AM XXCoder: build machine -> leftovers -> build another machine using leftovers and some more parts -> leftovers -> ...
05:17 AM RyanS: noooo i dont want to build another plasma ever again
05:17 AM gloops: lol!
05:17 AM XXCoder: why? build a cutter or plotter or something lol
05:17 AM gloops: ill have enough to build a wood lathe almost
05:18 AM gloops: i wont build another router, or if i do it will be the works, the last ever
05:18 AM gloops: doing this put years on me lol
05:19 AM XXCoder: once you have one properly working its much easier to build another using it
05:19 AM XXCoder: I think i said I was planning to do exactly that
05:19 AM gloops: well there is that to it yes
05:20 AM XXCoder: my orginial plan was to build shitty wood cnc router machine
05:20 AM XXCoder: use it to make much better frame for it, build it
05:20 AM gloops: some people make a router from mdf, for the sole purpose of making aluminium parts for the real one theyre going to build
05:20 AM XXCoder: if its tough enough to cut alum, build alum frame for it
05:21 AM gloops: even if it did the drilling thats a big painstaking manual job eliminated
05:22 AM XXCoder: indeed
05:22 AM XXCoder: I want to do fun alum sheet drill project
05:22 AM XXCoder: just turn certain shape into lots holes for say vent
05:22 AM RyanS: i'll do a redneck conversion of my lathe https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L682D is that the worlds stupidist tailstock shape?
05:23 AM XXCoder: looks standard?
05:23 AM XXCoder: certainly seem similiar as ones at work
05:23 AM RyanS: doesn't rreach well
05:23 AM XXCoder: isnt you supposed to move tailstock in and out?
05:24 AM XXCoder: as well as use its extender so it can hold or release whatever as needed
05:24 AM XXCoder: sorry not lathe guy dont know some names
05:25 AM RyanS: yeah but extension looses rigidity
05:25 AM XXCoder: yeah thats why you move it in closer
05:26 AM RyanS: see https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L237 the tailstock projects farther
05:26 AM RyanS: and can get closer to the chuck
05:29 AM RyanS: it might help if remove the telescopic leadscrew cover it stops the carriage getting close
05:38 AM XXCoder: dunno
05:49 AM Loetmichel: MAAAAN... had 100 32mm dremel cutoff disks... estimated the use of three for cutting out a 5.25" hole into a few dell PC enclosures... (i needed one and a half)... coworker used up all 100 in 10 PCs... Oh, for a pro!
05:52 AM RyanS: I wonder how much of 'industrial quality ' tool cost goes into idiot proofing
05:53 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
05:53 AM miss0r: hello
05:53 AM IchGucksLive: gloops, still on ?
05:53 AM TurBoss: Hi
05:53 AM RyanS: gutten tag
05:54 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, 72V on the stepper rated 3,6V gives you speed
05:54 AM RyanS: cool
05:54 AM IchGucksLive: around 800Rpm at 2Nm
05:55 AM IchGucksLive: cable is 0,5mm² at 1,5m lenth
05:56 AM IchGucksLive: stepepr is rated 2,3A
05:56 AM miss0r: great news: my wife is pregnant with number two :D
05:56 AM IchGucksLive: if it is number 8 call back
05:56 AM miss0r: lol
05:57 AM RyanS: i guess cable thickness accounts for voltage drop
05:57 AM IchGucksLive: length is mor the case
05:57 AM IchGucksLive: inductive kills alll speed
05:58 AM IchGucksLive: also any kind of plug or solder
05:58 AM IchGucksLive: only clamp and if you can remove the driver plug if speed is all you need
05:59 AM IchGucksLive: speed i recomend over 5m/min at the tool
05:59 AM IchGucksLive: below it does not matter
05:59 AM IchGucksLive: a good setup will bring you to 4800mm/min
05:59 AM RyanS: im just going to use glands into the enclosure don't need plugs
06:00 AM IchGucksLive: in all cases at max 10m cable length of a plasma
06:00 AM IchGucksLive: a good EMI protection to the siganlisatin is more then alll
06:01 AM IchGucksLive: staying 48V reduces the E-costs dramaticly
06:01 AM sety: 5 meters? How much space do you guys have?? I'm still trying to figure out my HobbyKing PCB cnc unit!
06:01 AM Loetmichel: RyanS: is that meant for my dremel cutoff disks?
06:02 AM RyanS: in general
06:02 AM IchGucksLive: sety, http://tv-profi-gmbh.de/masch_baumh_k.jpg
06:02 AM Loetmichel: thhats not "idiot at work" its just experience to get those disks to NOT explode every few seconds on you
06:02 AM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel, parkinson is not a option
06:03 AM Loetmichel: they really dont like any side force... considering they are just epoxy bound 100grit korund in 0.8mm thick thats no wonder though :-)
06:03 AM Loetmichel: IchGucksLive: indeed ;)
06:03 AM IchGucksLive: lie Flex 115 mit 0,8mm blatt
06:04 AM IchGucksLive: sety, are you buildingg one or buying
06:04 AM sety: IchGlucksLive: I can't click that. I'm on an Atari ST. I will do it later if I can still find it after dinner. :)
06:04 AM IchGucksLive: sety, TYPE log
06:04 AM RyanS: IchGucksLive: hmm, I was going to cut a lot of 2mm steel which the manual says 5560mm/min @ 45 amps. if I cut at example 40amps i could lower speed to
06:05 AM RyanS: 4800
06:05 AM sety: I have a mini one from HK. But I'm finding it very uncooperative. Worse than 3D printing. =/
06:05 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, this is what i use
06:06 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, Fulll prooduction line 4 Plasmas http://schwedenfeuer.de/feuersauelen.htm
06:06 AM RyanS: 40amps?
06:06 AM IchGucksLive: 32
06:06 AM IchGucksLive: 2mm welding steel pülates at 2500x1250
06:07 AM IchGucksLive: miss0r, congretulations to well done
06:07 AM RyanS: so you can simply adjust the current to match the speed capabilities of the table?
06:07 AM IchGucksLive: miss0r, if she agreees and it is on plan
06:07 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, it is all together
06:08 AM IchGucksLive: the AIRflow Humanuity the electrode material
06:08 AM IchGucksLive: the THC may have side effects
06:08 AM IchGucksLive: for a straight cut as Pizza oven
06:09 AM IchGucksLive: for image shape not at all
06:09 AM IchGucksLive: image shape it is on G64 P1
06:09 AM RyanS: and what speed do i need for the torch mover?
06:09 AM RyanS: Z
06:10 AM IchGucksLive: i go for 2400
06:10 AM IchGucksLive: the thc is in full control
06:10 AM IchGucksLive: so it moves only 0,2at one time
06:10 AM IchGucksLive: 10times a second
06:11 AM RyanS: 0.5mm ballscrew?
06:11 AM IchGucksLive: if you make profiled steel plates like wave steel you need 1000time setup
06:11 AM RyanS: 5mm pitch
06:11 AM IchGucksLive: i got TR20x4
06:12 AM RyanS: is that module 1 trapezoidal?
06:12 AM IchGucksLive: if you setup 40VEL 100ACC you are fine
06:13 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, http://maedler.de/product/1643/gewindespindeln-muttern-keilwellen-keilnaben
06:13 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, the X Y are on Rack Pinion 30/1 gear
06:13 AM RyanS: someone recommended 1 g force acceleration for the X, Y..
06:14 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, as fast as you can on your precision scale
06:14 AM IchGucksLive: i got a mesas 7i76 inside that makes full motion posible up to 12m/min
06:15 AM IchGucksLive: at a 0,1mm precision setup
06:15 AM IchGucksLive: 5m (4800) at 0,01mm
06:15 AM IchGucksLive: with 3Nm Steppers
06:15 AM IchGucksLive: DM556
06:16 AM IchGucksLive: 48V
06:16 AM RyanS: plasma doesn't require a lot of precision? I mean 1.2mm kerf cut
06:17 AM RyanS: I have the 7i76e too
06:18 AM IchGucksLive: so what table size you are planing
06:18 AM jthornton: morning
06:18 AM RyanS: 1200x1200mm capacity
06:18 AM IchGucksLive: hi jthornton
06:19 AM XXCoder: yo
06:19 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, there is a set 1350x1350
06:19 AM IchGucksLive: Gantry
06:19 AM RyanS: 80V no better than 48V?
06:20 AM IchGucksLive: it is
06:20 AM IchGucksLive: if you have budget go HSS86
06:20 AM IchGucksLive: but you can get all 3 axis for one HSS86 set
06:21 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, where in the world are you
06:21 AM RyanS: yeah sheets are 1200 x 2400 so I can fit a half sheet
06:22 AM RyanS: Australia
06:22 AM IchGucksLive: oh hard to get parts there
06:22 AM IchGucksLive: if you dont need that precision SAYING 0,5mm
06:22 AM IchGucksLive: go for timingbelt system
06:23 AM IchGucksLive: gantry
06:23 AM IchGucksLive: and make a simple liniar like Waterpipe 3m
06:24 AM IchGucksLive: one in honduras got a bicicle chain system working on 0,2mm
06:24 AM RyanS: I haven't seen TR20x4, usually i see it called 5mm or 10mm pitch
06:25 AM IchGucksLive: yes as the price lowerd for ballscrews all going that way
06:25 AM IchGucksLive: but beond 1,2meter it is not the first choice
06:25 AM IchGucksLive: 2510
06:25 AM RyanS: I have to import some parts it's usually cheaper than buying local
06:25 AM IchGucksLive: at 2meter will be a hevy thing
06:26 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, gearing is in Australia NSK60
06:26 AM IchGucksLive: so you are on low cost timingbelt
06:26 AM IchGucksLive: s it is rangerover car part
06:27 AM IchGucksLive: AND in Ausis junkyard there are so many
06:27 AM IchGucksLive: it has a XL 2600mm Timingbelt
06:27 AM IchGucksLive: all pulleys including
06:28 AM IchGucksLive: almost every outback CAR repair will have it
06:28 AM IchGucksLive: so you are at 2600x1500 mashine size
06:29 AM IchGucksLive: moving 2400x 1200 +5mm
06:29 AM IchGucksLive: claiming low cost
06:29 AM IchGucksLive: IM Calld off Cerry picking
06:30 AM IchGucksLive: BYE
06:30 AM miss0r: I just bought a charmilles Eleroda E110 :D
06:30 AM IchGucksLive: RyanS, i got a design redy made if you like
06:30 AM IchGucksLive: miss0r, you need PAMPERS a mass
06:30 AM IchGucksLive: dipers in tonns
06:30 AM RyanS: I've got the copy you sent
06:30 AM miss0r: IchGucksLive: Sure. but I can hardly put the expenses on the company ;)
06:31 AM miss0r: or can i....
06:58 AM gloops: could try turning the nut if you want long ballscrews
07:10 AM RyanS: Nah rack and pinion
07:48 AM miss0r: EDM IS ALIVE ! Mwuhahahaha
08:07 AM flyback: cool
08:07 AM flyback: be careful with those
08:07 AM flyback: I am sure you know right?
08:07 AM flyback: visible arcing is bad for the eyes
08:07 AM Beachbumpete1: morning linuxCNC
08:07 AM flyback: DON'T CANUCK AROUND
08:11 AM Beachbumpete1: anyone here really good with desktop PC builds?
08:11 AM miss0r: :]
08:11 AM SpeedEvil: Beachbumpete1: ##hardware may be more appropriate
08:12 AM Beachbumpete1: oh yeah never been there
08:12 AM miss0r: I had to make a last minut change to the spindle... I made a miscalculation, and water ended up in the output bearings :] That is fixed now, though
08:12 AM Beachbumpete1: we have a desktop PC at work I am using that needs to be upgraded with more ram and a better video card
08:12 AM miss0r: I still need to come up with a filter solution that actualy works. At the moment It is murking up for me pretty fast
08:15 AM Beachbumpete1: says you must be invited to join #hardware am I doing something wrong?
08:16 AM SpeedEvil: two #'s?
08:17 AM Beachbumpete1: tried that too
08:17 AM SpeedEvil: Three?
08:17 AM SpeedEvil: :)
08:17 AM Beachbumpete1: hehe
08:17 AM SpeedEvil: Perhaps it's requiring registration?
08:19 AM Beachbumpete1: how do you determine the best video card to buy for a particular gigabyte board?
08:19 AM Beachbumpete1: https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/GA-H270-HD3-rev-10#kf this is the one we have
08:20 AM Beachbumpete1: it currently has 8gb of ddr4 and we are going to go to 16gb also
08:20 AM SpeedEvil: First work out what you mean by best.
08:20 AM SpeedEvil: - what software will be stressing it.
08:21 AM Beachbumpete1: this is the pc we are using to do all of our CAD CAM and 3d renderings for the cabinet designs and it lags a bit when it does the big computations for those sometimes
08:21 AM Beachbumpete1: using mozaik, fusion 360, autocad and a few others
08:22 AM SpeedEvil: Are they actually GPU accellerated would be an obvious question.
08:23 AM Beachbumpete1: not really sure about that I will check into it. we plan to upgrade the ram as well as I said
08:23 AM gloops: ive been getting that with new windows install - accelleration wasnt installed
08:23 AM gloops: search for best driver or use the disc for graphics card if youve got it
08:24 AM gloops: linux didnt need any of that of course, for the same apps :)
08:24 AM Beachbumpete1: as I said we are upgrading the graphics card
08:24 AM Beachbumpete1: https://www.rakuten.com/shop/beachaudio/product/16511636/?scid=pla_bing_beachaudio&adid=27314&msclkid=506368d69cbf1f9dcd7633f70ab890ff&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=%5BADL%5D%20Vendors%20Generic%20-%20All&utm_term=4581183918004489&utm_content=%5BADL%5D%20Vendors%20Generic%20-%20All
08:24 AM gloops: this one is 15 years old lol, runs most 3d fine
08:24 AM Beachbumpete1: would something like this work
08:25 AM miss0r: 3min 47sec to cut a 4mm hole through a 6mm tungsten carbide shank. Not exactly breathtakingly fast, but pretty good for a home made one
08:26 AM Beachbumpete1: just opened it up here and it is running on internal graphics
08:26 AM SpeedEvil: miss0r: nice
08:27 AM miss0r: yeah.. I still have some programming to do. Its not quite as stable as the PLC driven proto type yet
08:27 AM miss0r: I just need to fine tune the hysteresis & pullback speeds ect
08:28 AM gloops: $500 are ya made of money! lol
08:29 AM gloops: any old voodoo or nvidia 3d card will run these apps
08:29 AM gloops: but you pay your money, you take your choice
08:29 AM Beachbumpete1: no its just for our work and he wants to do it right the first time
08:29 AM Beachbumpete1: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820313742&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Memory+%28Desktop+Memory%29-_-N82E16820313742&gclid=CjwKCAjwpIjZBRBsEiwA0TN1ryELZ1fL6u5jgOPVPBLs5TTY4shKQWwf_ZH5xnT4ppdqY1YPUBmBdhoCbxAQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
08:29 AM Beachbumpete1: this is the ram that is in the machine now. only a single dimm
08:30 AM Beachbumpete1: gonna probably order a pair of 8's
08:31 AM gloops: i was playing with blender this morning https://ibb.co/eb6ohy
08:31 AM gloops: https://ibb.co/d6Pr2y
08:31 AM gloops: many thousands of vertices, no lag or anything
08:33 AM Beachbumpete1: https://www.amazon.com/MSI-GAMING-GTX-1060-6G/dp/B01IEKYD5U/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1528927318&sr=8-6&keywords=gtx+1060+graphics+card
08:33 AM Beachbumpete1: perhaps something like this?
08:34 AM * flyback shanks miss0r
08:36 AM gloops: have you got a 3d card fitted atm Beachbumpete1 - may not be installed properly, and may need to disable onboard graphic card
08:36 AM Beachbumpete1: like I said no card at all
08:36 AM flyback: those exotic materials like tungsten carbide etc are neat
08:36 AM * miss0r slaps flyback with a printed version of the windows ME buglist
08:36 AM gloops: ahh
08:36 AM flyback: winME was a bug
08:37 AM flyback: fire brick or even ordinary lawn art ceramic is neat also
08:37 AM flyback: brittle as hell but you can hit it with a torch for several mins
08:37 AM Beachbumpete1: https://i.imgur.com/Yh4nWDZ.jpg
08:37 AM gloops: well, im no expert but i think that graphics would do yes
08:37 AM miss0r: I have a friend that had a theory about windows ME; all windows systems gets slower and slower, the longer you use it. Windows ME started slow, but if you roughed through it, it turns out fine in the end. His proof was a IBM laptop, that had it running for 2 years :)
08:38 AM gloops: diectx12, very powerful card that is
08:38 AM flyback: well yeah it eats itself over time
08:38 AM rmu: windows ME was an abomination
08:38 AM gloops: windows is fast for about 3 days after a format
08:38 AM Beachbumpete1: that should be compatible with the gigabyte board no?
08:39 AM gloops: i dont know about that
08:39 AM gloops: phone them
08:39 AM rmu: miss0r: do you use hollow electrodes?
08:42 AM miss0r: rmu: yeah... well, I use some fine brass pipes
08:44 AM flyback: win9x could be violated by apps
08:44 AM flyback: total garbage
08:45 AM miss0r: rmu: I'm uploading a two short videos to google drive at the moment
08:49 AM miss0r: rmu: my first Youtube upload :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WiH8PmsD90
08:49 AM miss0r: I'm uploading another one where you can actualy see some cutting
08:51 AM miss0r: I should've made a video of when it was actualy cutting well... That will have to come later I guess :]
08:52 AM miss0r: The shitty part is; when I actualy had it cutting like it was supposed to, the water was all gunked up, because I don't have any filter
08:53 AM rmu: hmm. i think having clean water is kinda important to not clog up your electrode
08:54 AM miss0r: yeah.. but the 'bigger' pieces that get sucked through the pump are stopped by a fuel line filter on the hose
08:56 AM miss0r: This is the longer one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QJCeqixABs
08:56 AM miss0r: Nothing realy happens until around 1 minut
08:57 AM miss0r: At the moment I have it sounding like an angry bees nest.. so that there is still quite a bit off
09:01 AM Beachbumpete1: damn Gigabyte is in Cali cant call them yet...
09:05 AM rmu: hehe
09:05 AM rmu: miss0r: very nice
09:08 AM miss0r: rmu: it does look nice and shiny, don't it ? :D
09:11 AM rmu: i tried removing a HSS drill stuck in aluminium with a "jeri ellsworth"-type doorbell-edm. didn't work too well. ever thinking about building something more "real" since then
09:12 AM miss0r: Yeah. I started with a little coil like you :D
09:12 AM miss0r: I quickly grew tired of that
09:17 AM miss0r: I wonder what kind of low price filter I can get
09:21 AM JT-Shop: just when I thought I had caught 5 wood rats as the doors were closed went to the first trap and empty... a small coon or possum stole all my bait
09:39 AM Beachbumpete1: Ok Can someone tell me if this Motherboard https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/GA-H270-HD3-rev-10#kf will accept this video card https://www.amazon.com/MSI-GAMING-GTX-1060-6G/dp/B01IEKYD5U/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1528927318&sr=8-6&keywords=gtx+1060+graphics+card without any problems?
09:45 AM gloops: check cpu support list
09:46 AM gloops: Support for 7th and 6th generation Intel® Core™ i7 processors/Intel® Core™ i5 processors/Intel® Core™ i3 processors/Intel® Pentium® processors/Intel® Celeron® processors in the LGA1151 package
09:49 AM Beachbumpete1: it has an I5 7500 intel chip in it now
09:58 AM rmu: JT-Shop: womp rats?
10:00 AM gloops: i dunno Beachbumpete1 its plug and play, similar generation, i cant see there being any problem, if in doubt, wait and ring them
10:01 AM Beachbumpete1: That is my feelings about it as well. I cannot see why it would not work based on the data. Just would hate to order it for the boss and then it not fit and look like a fool LOL
10:01 AM Beachbumpete1: I am not all that familiar with the high power video card stuff
10:01 AM Beachbumpete1: I am not a gamer
10:01 AM Beachbumpete1: built several PC's from parts tho
10:02 AM Tom_L: Beachbumpete1 you will likely need to update your PSU unless it's got extra plugs for the video card
10:02 AM Beachbumpete1: Tom_L did you see the photo I posted?
10:02 AM Tom_L: which one?
10:02 AM Beachbumpete1: https://i.imgur.com/Yh4nWDZ.jpg
10:03 AM Beachbumpete1: Its apparently a pretty damn good motherboard and power supply from what I can see
10:03 AM Beachbumpete1: he had it built along with this other one by a local pro PC guy for himself about a year and a half ago
10:04 AM Tom_L: i've got 2 gigabyte boards: H110M-S2H-GSM and B250M-DS3H
10:04 AM Beachbumpete1: Its like I am the only one here that gets asked to do all the techy stuff because nobody else here has ever even done anything like this..
10:04 AM Tom_L: but i'm not using any fancy video cards, just one that i can get dual monitors
10:04 AM Tom_L: runs cad just fine
10:05 AM Tom_L: it was about $50 :)
10:05 AM Tom_L: or maybe less
10:05 AM Beachbumpete1: yeah we are running dual monitors and even occasionally using this 48 inch flatscreen to screencast from this PC for customers to view their cabinet designs
10:05 AM Tom_L: but it didn't require me to upgrade the PSU so i was ok with it
10:06 AM Beachbumpete1: this one just lags sometimes with the 3d stuff when I have several programs open
10:06 AM Tom_L: you're kinda short on ram there
10:06 AM Beachbumpete1: I THINK the ram upgrade alone will help with that
10:06 AM Tom_L: does it have a SSD?
10:06 AM Tom_L: that would improve it alot
10:07 AM Tom_L: samsung 860evo or such
10:07 AM Tom_L: i've got a pile of em
10:07 AM Tom_L: 850evo 860evo and 960evo M2
10:07 AM Tom_L: the 860 replaced the 850 i think
10:07 AM Beachbumpete1: it has two mirrored drives
10:07 AM gloops: many a happy hour to be had sorting this lot out https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3d-printer-reprap-maker-bits-Stepper-motors-switches-fans-cogs-belts-etc/232802362037?
10:08 AM Tom_L: i found the biggest improvement i did was SSD
10:08 AM Tom_L: M2 just lets you mount the tiny SSD right to the motherboard
10:09 AM gloops: i dont know what is lagging here, but its pretty normal for some processing time for complex operations you know
10:09 AM Beachbumpete1: one is like 1.8tb and the other is 232gb and it has a piggyback ssd
10:10 AM Tom_L: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA12K54C9643&cm_re=samsung_960_evo_1tb-_-20-147-595-_-Product
10:10 AM Beachbumpete1: https://i.imgur.com/5SDPEJs.jpg
10:12 AM Tom_L: i started using those and the 2.5" form and never looked back
10:14 AM Tom_L: they have a pro series as well
10:14 AM Tom_L: but these work fine for me
10:15 AM Tom_L: i personally would steer clear of the gen8 chips, they're buggy
10:17 AM Tom_L: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6ZP3R88500&cm_re=4th_gen_intel-_-19-117-404-_-Product
10:17 AM Tom_L: that might get you more if the cad takes advantage of it
10:18 AM Tom_L: you're probably running 4 core
10:19 AM gloops: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5843849/Shocking-video-shows-FedEx-workers-hurling-customers-parcels-van.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailUK
10:20 AM gloops: LOL thats got to be the numpty that brings my stuff
10:20 AM Tom_L: gloops, you didn't know they have their own hockey team?
10:21 AM gloops: i saw a video before, inside the warehouse - throwing widescreen TVs about 10 foot onto a conveyor belt
10:23 AM Beachbumpete1: woah that chip is pricy LOL
10:23 AM Tom_L: it's just like racing... how fast do you want to go?
10:24 AM Beachbumpete1: hehehehe
10:24 AM Beachbumpete1: IKR
10:24 AM Beachbumpete1: no we just want to go as fast as what we have can afford us
10:24 AM Beachbumpete1: he did not say anything about upgrading the chipset
10:24 AM Tom_L: i put my coin on SSD first
10:24 AM Tom_L: see what that buys ya
10:24 AM Beachbumpete1: well like I said it has an SSD
10:25 AM Beachbumpete1: did you see the picture?
10:25 AM Tom_L: where does most of the data come from though?
10:25 AM Tom_L: yes
10:25 AM Tom_L: that and fill those other banks of ddr4
10:25 AM Beachbumpete1: I dunno honestly but the two HDD are mirrored for storage safety
10:26 AM Tom_L: i keep all my data on multiple pcs for safety
10:27 AM Tom_L: years back i used tape drives
10:27 AM gloops: its as Tom_L says - all of this is dependent on the apps ability to utilise the memory etc, im messing about with sketchup now - its taking ages to run something, its not the computer because the same operation is almost instant in other apps
10:28 AM Tom_L: the trick to that is to try and recover your system from what you call a backup
10:28 AM Tom_L: see if it works
10:28 AM Tom_L: until you can, you don't have a proven backup system
10:30 AM Beachbumpete1: its funny you mention sketchup, this software Mozaik we are using renders in sketchup affording us the ability to use another programs plugin ariel vision to make the photo realistic renderings
10:31 AM Tom_L: i'm not saying a video card wouldn't help though
10:31 AM Tom_L: but ddr4 is cheaper
10:33 AM Tom_L: gtg..
10:35 AM Beachbumpete1: thanks tom we are going to get both
10:39 AM enleth: do you think there's some reasonable way to integrate backgear state detection into LinuxCNC so that it prompts a gear change if the next posted spindle speed is within/out of a defined range?
10:41 AM enleth: even better, make it dependent on tool numbers
10:41 AM gloops: world cup has kicked off russia v saudi arabia
10:42 AM hazzy-lab: enleth: I think Gene over on the mailing list has done that on his sheldon lathe, I think he mentioned adding a wiki page with the info, but I don't know where that is
10:43 AM enleth: say, I want the default to be "enforce high gear (straight 1:1 motor to spindle, no backgear)", but for tools 40-59 which are shell mills, big hogging mills, etc. and require high torque, "enforce low gear if spindle speed below 800"
10:43 AM enleth: with the gear state detected by a limit switch wired to a generic Mesa input
10:44 AM hazzy-lab: Yeah, thats what gene has, he used proxy switches to detect which gears are engaged
10:44 AM enleth: with an operator propmpt that can only be dismissed when the gear is actually changed
10:44 AM enleth: OK, I'll look for it
10:46 AM enleth: one more thing this would need is spindle direction swap (backgear on a bridgeport is reversing) and VFD input adjustment (divide by 9 if backgear engaged), but that should be easy with some custom HAL logic, or even on the VFD itself
10:47 AM enleth: I think I can connect one of the general purpose inputs in the VFD in parallel with a Mesa input and configure it as a profile change, with a different input voltage ramp, speed limits and direction swap
10:49 AM flyback: Beachbumpete1, that windows dynamic disk raid 1 works pretty well for just os/boot protection
10:49 AM flyback: for doing more I suggest "storage spaces" much more powerful sw raid but not bootable
10:49 AM flyback: and of course if using linux, it has tons of sw raid options as well
10:49 AM Beachbumpete1: flyback thanks man I will look into that
10:50 AM flyback: it's probably slower but I didn't notice that much of a hit
10:50 AM flyback: i'd take the hit to avoid having the system just suddentely die from a bad disk
10:50 AM flyback: did you lose some data?
10:50 AM flyback: cause i am good with recovery
10:51 AM flyback: <Tom_L> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA12K54C9643&cm_re=samsung_960_evo_1tb-_-20-147-595-_-Product
10:51 AM flyback: <Beachbumpete1> https://i.imgur.com/5SDPEJs.jpg
10:51 AM flyback: <Tom_L> i started using those and the 2.5" form and never looked back
10:52 AM flyback: the samsung 850 and up use 3D tlc which is the first tlc I would trust for most apps
10:52 AM flyback: it's very stable
10:52 AM Beachbumpete1: those look nice too
10:53 AM flyback: normal TLC is swiss cheeze because they use analog voltage states to represent 3 bits and every time they shrink the cells it's getting way weaker down to 500-1000 writes per sector before it shits
10:53 AM flyback: 3D uses many dies stacked whcih means the cells are a bigger size that is more stable
10:54 AM flyback: fram is nice if you only need a few kb or mb for a application
10:54 AM flyback: because while it's no where near as dense as flash
10:54 AM flyback: it basically has near unltimied writes
10:54 AM flyback: they also found it's naturally super radiation resistant
10:56 AM flyback: nasa did a test put some in space, just normal off the shelf fram
10:56 AM flyback: and some on earth in a radiation chamber
10:57 AM flyback: "the good news: 6 months, 0 errors"
10:57 AM flyback: "the bad news: 6 months, 0 errors"
10:57 AM flyback: only bad because they would like to know where the cut off point is where you can assume it's going to start rapdiely failing
10:57 AM flyback: but you won't see fram ssd's etc any time soon not dense enough
10:58 AM flyback: but it's awesome for some stuff
10:58 AM flyback: if you wanted to put a cycle counter on every stepper motor in a cnc like commercial engines have clock hours
10:58 AM flyback: so you could know when it's a good time to replace the motors or do maintenance
10:58 AM flyback: actually flash would pronbably work ok there if optimized so it's wear leveled
10:58 AM flyback: but you get the point :)
11:01 AM flyback: I still don't have any ssd's someday
11:01 AM flyback: might put a low end one in my netbook when I put it back together
11:02 AM flyback: since i'd run linux on it anyways, I can optimize writes so even a low end one will last yrs
11:05 AM flyback: yeah seen this before
11:06 AM flyback: I love the ones that were caught on house videos trashing people's packages or stealing them
11:06 AM flyback: ups also
11:06 AM Beachbumpete1: I need to purchase a nice laptop for myself at some point here. I have too much shit on my toshiba right now between all the music stuff as well as all my CAD CAM stuff and family stuff as well. I would like to take everything but my music software off the toshiba and put it on a newer faster
11:06 AM Beachbumpete1: laptop and leave the toshiba in my music setup for running my midi controller keyboard and audio interface/monitors for my guitars etc..
11:06 AM flyback: it's sad gloops
11:06 AM flyback: Beachbumpete1, are you just out of space?
11:07 AM Beachbumpete1: No not out of space at all really
11:07 AM flyback: cause you know you can get fake dvd drives that are a ssd inside and you just give up your optical
11:07 AM flyback: or use a usb one :P
11:07 AM Beachbumpete1: just getting tired of unplugging and moving it from my music area to my den area where I do a lot of my normal PC stuff
11:07 AM gloops: flyback, well i suppose they arent the best paid people in the world, and everyone is human, the parcels get the all the flak lol
11:08 AM Beachbumpete1: basically want a dedicated PC for the music stuff and the rest will be mobile
11:08 AM flyback: doesn't' matter you still don't treat peple's shut like that
11:08 AM flyback: Beachbumpete1, get some docks
11:08 AM flyback: I got two $400 docks for $25 on ebay new surplus
11:08 AM flyback: I fucked up one of them and the laptop suffered the gpu bug but still cool
11:09 AM Beachbumpete1: its not as simple as that I dont think. I have two usb's and the power setup on it.
11:09 AM Beachbumpete1: just to plug in to the music setup each time.
11:09 AM flyback: docks have power :P
11:09 AM flyback: some do
11:09 AM Beachbumpete1: one is for the M audio keystation pro and the other is for the Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Audio interface
11:09 AM Beachbumpete1: I suppose one of those could work tho
11:10 AM Beachbumpete1: I just also want a nice newer laptop tho ;)
11:10 AM flyback: I gotta run to bathroom sorry
11:10 AM flyback: oh I am saying go ahead with the new laptop
11:10 AM flyback: just look into if they have a dock port
11:12 AM enleth: hazzy-lab: OK, I found the guy on the mailing lists, no wiki page though. I'll just ping him I guess, when the time comes to implement that feature in the bridgeport
11:25 AM fragalot: 'sup
11:33 AM ziper: thinkin bout dem miniature cnc routers
11:35 AM Rab: ziper, you mean that Techno-Isel auction you posted?
11:35 AM ziper: yeah
11:35 AM ziper: still no bids
11:35 AM Rab: Yep, could go for cheap!
12:06 PM mii is now known as kengu
12:13 PM IchGucksLive: hi all
12:19 PM IchGucksLive: ISEL is out as it uses nonstandard VFD also no good timing only internal on its mashine its a homegrown system
12:21 PM IchGucksLive: seen! gloops
12:21 PM IchGucksLive: !seen gloops
12:23 PM jesseg: howdy IchGucksLive
12:24 PM IchGucksLive: ;-)
12:24 PM Deejay: 17:54] gloops (~Dave@79-70-113-185.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
12:24 PM IchGucksLive: DANKE
12:24 PM Deejay: np
12:25 PM IchGucksLive: Deejay, what logside logs in and out
12:25 PM IchGucksLive: or is it thel ive feed
12:25 PM Deejay: what?
12:25 PM IchGucksLive: the c-logdoesent log in out
12:29 PM Deejay: dunno what you want :/
12:33 PM ziper: IchGucksLive, what do you mean timing only internal
12:37 PM fragalot_: IchGucksLive: the only thing logging who was online when is theCockerel
12:37 PM fragalot_ is now known as fragalot
12:44 PM IchGucksLive: im off closing garden down getting ready for a hard weekend as we expect about 8k people visiting the campground on a scout meeting
01:08 PM phipli: evening
01:40 PM Joe_Hildreth: Hello all! Have a quick question about reading the latency information from HAL Latency Test, latency-histogram and latency-plot
01:42 PM Joe_Hildreth: I understand that jitter is a measurement of variance from the realtime thread. It also looks like it captures an interval less than the thread time. So my question is does jitter only include the time after the thread cycle or does it include the time both before and after the thread cycle.
01:43 PM Joe_Hildreth: Let me give an example.
01:45 PM Joe_Hildreth: If the Base thread is 25us and the last interval is 24879ns this means that it was early bu 121ns. Is this included in the jitter total, or just the maximum occurence after the 25us cycle?
01:45 PM pcw_mesa: it gives intervals, not latency (latency is always positive)
01:46 PM pcw_mesa: so if one cycle is late by 25 usec and the next is late by 1 usec the next cycle will show 24 usec early
01:47 PM Joe_Hildreth: OK, just want to make sure I have this correct. It does not matter if the interval is less than the thread time correct? Only the amount of time it takes to service the thread. That is jitter correct?
01:48 PM Joe_Hildreth: Oh, I get you I think. So the last cycle would be off by the amount of latency of the previous cycle then?
01:48 PM pcw_mesa: yeah jitter would be a better word
01:49 PM Joe_Hildreth: I am asking because I am working on my next CNC for the home hobbyist video and want to make sure what I am explaining to people is correct. Thank you for the help pcw_mesa
01:50 PM pcw_mesa: a latency plot would tend to be very asymmetric and all positive ( the histogram really shows intervals relative to programmed period )
01:52 PM Joe_Hildreth: As I look at the histogram, I am seeing the variance of the signal, either before or aftr the allocated time?
01:53 PM pcw_mesa: yes shorter and longer than the programmed interval
01:54 PM Joe_Hildreth: Perfect, thank you for the help.
01:56 PM Joe_Hildreth: On the letency-plot, I see two lines tracking the max latency for both threads. (S, B max) then there are two other lines (S, B latency) These show graphically how early or late the thread was serviced based on a baseline for the thread, correct? Another way of showing the jitter?
01:59 PM Joe_Hildreth: I can see where the plot will give you a window into troubleshooting a system. With enough samples you can see if there is a regular interval in which a system might have a late spike. Would you agree?
02:16 PM aircooled is now known as hazzy-lab
02:16 PM SpeedEvil: pcw_mesa: I had negatives once, but Captain Braxton arrived from the 29th century and took that system.
02:16 PM pcw_mesa: :-)
02:16 PM Joe_Hildreth: Yeah, Braxton has a way of sticking his nose into things. Don't have a clue how the doctor managed to keep his holo-emmiter.
02:18 PM pcw_mesa: Joe_Hildreth yes the plot can help find periodic errors (like latencies caused by SMI)
02:19 PM Joe_Hildreth: Thank you pcw_mesa. I think you have given me enough to go on for this section. I appreciate it and will be sure to give a shout out to the LCNC IRC.
02:24 PM andypugh: cradek: Those DS8880 chips are _perfect_ for driving the LED “Filaments”
02:26 PM andypugh: https://photos.app.goo.gl/pe9Y1orNfJXP8bDH6
02:26 PM Rab: andypugh, did you get a better shipping deal? Or find another source?
02:26 PM Tom_L: hah found the aliexpress motor on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brushless-DC-BLDC-Motor-Speed-Control-1100W-6000rpm-CNC-Sieg-X2-X3-BF20-G0704/153059732033?hash=item23a3122a41:g:2kUAAOSwfHJa-m9o
02:26 PM andypugh: Found a source in the Netherlands
02:28 PM andypugh: Tom_L: That’s big for the suggested G0704. Not that too much power is a bad thing.
02:28 PM andypugh: Ah, they are suggesting using it for a spindle.
02:28 PM andypugh: Looks like a decent axis motor to me, too.
02:28 PM Tom_L: just looking for a spindle replacement motor for the sherline spindle
02:29 PM pcw_mesa: I used DS8880 chips a long time ago (when they were a standard Item) on clock using 14 segment neon tubes
02:29 PM Tom_L: may eventually go with an ER20 or such collet setup
02:29 PM Tom_L: aliexpress has them but i can't get a reply from the seller
02:29 PM andypugh: pcw_home: I think that is what they are for, but they work a treat for the led filaments when removed from bulbs.
02:30 PM Tom_L: err alibaba
02:30 PM Tom_L: https://preview.tinyurl.com/y9myuy7d
02:30 PM Tom_L: that link shows analog control
02:34 PM lcvette: whats up guys
02:35 PM lcvette: is there an easy way to convert a hal and ini from a 0-10v analog spindle control to a =/-10v spindle control?
02:35 PM lcvette: +/-10v
02:35 PM Tom_L: get a mesa card that supports +-10v
02:36 PM Roguish: RTFM
02:36 PM lcvette: i tried making a new config using pncconfig and looking for differences and changed what i saw but cant seem to make it work
02:36 PM lcvette: 7i77 does i thought?
02:36 PM Tom_L: dunno
02:37 PM lcvette: i know it supports servos in analog mode in +/-10v
02:40 PM lcvette: Tom_L do NOT buy that bldc
02:40 PM lcvette: it is a POS
02:40 PM lcvette: the drives are garbage
02:40 PM lcvette: I have one here and 2 dead drives
02:41 PM Tom_L: be more specific
02:41 PM andypugh: lcvette: You probably just need to connect spindle-speed out in place of spindle-speed-out-abs.
02:42 PM lcvette: *IF* you want a BLDC motor you need to get a quality motor and drive stateside, the chinese units are just not there yet
02:43 PM jesseg: I got one out of a front load washing machine LOL
02:43 PM jesseg: haven't retrofitted it for a spindle though (yet)
02:43 PM Tom_L: i had one and someone advised me against using it for a spindle
02:43 PM jesseg: oh I'm sorry it's not a BLDC it's a BLAC motor - 3 phase induction motor driven by a VFD made specifically for washing machines
02:43 PM lcvette: net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm-abs <= motion.spindle-speed-out-abs
02:44 PM jesseg: Tom_L, yeah the bearings probably are not thrust bearings since it's just used to drive a belt and probably not configured for end thrust
02:45 PM Tom_L: how is that different from a spindle belt drive?
02:45 PM lcvette: i had the motor and drive and even when it works it had terrible recovery and bog
02:45 PM lcvette: there is video of it on my youtube channel
02:45 PM andypugh: lcvette: Hard to guess without seeing the HAL. I would not be at all surprised to find that you already have a signal spindle-vel-cmd-rpm that you can net to the 7i77 output.
02:46 PM Tom_L: lcvette, got a link to it?
02:46 PM andypugh: Is the motor OK if used with a better drive?
02:47 PM lcvette: https://pastebin.com/VHMtiH8c
02:47 PM lcvette: hal
02:47 PM lcvette: well, the motor itself also died
02:47 PM lcvette: not sure if it was because of a bad drive or if it was the motor
02:47 PM Roguish: lcvette: watch the signal in halscope..
02:48 PM lcvette: I had the 1.1kw and then the 2.2kw model
02:49 PM lcvette: both were terribly under powered to their nameplate
02:49 PM lcvette: not remotely close to a comparable 3 phase motor
02:50 PM lcvette: i would compare the 2.2kw to a 3/4hp 3ph AC motor... maybe when it was running in the beginning
02:50 PM miss0r: EDM getting better, sorry for the handheld camera: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF3YsI1MA8w
02:50 PM lcvette: but the 3/4hp 3ph ac motor would outlast it
02:50 PM andypugh: lcvette: drop the “abs” from line 391 of the pastebin
02:52 PM lcvette: ok.. testing in a sec repowering the machine
02:52 PM jesseg: miss0r, cool! is your die spinning?
02:53 PM miss0r: jesseg: not realy a die, just some brass pipe, but yeah
02:53 PM jesseg: miss0r, I hope you got your spindle shaft grounded well :D
02:53 PM jesseg: or your bearings will have a few things to say :D
02:54 PM lcvette: andypugh: no dice
02:54 PM andypugh: What’s your [SPINDLE_9]OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT
02:54 PM miss0r: jesseg: they are all 'floating'
02:54 PM jesseg: miss0r, I think by definition, the piece you are using as a tool is considered a die even if it's a lump of charcoal :D
02:54 PM miss0r: alright :)
02:55 PM lcvette: https://pastebin.com/wx03DHav
02:55 PM lcvette: ini
02:55 PM lcvette: -6000
02:55 PM jesseg: miss0r, ahh, but at least you don't have the current going through your bearings, right? :D Might not be bad idea to ground the spindle to the frame to prevent stray inductive/capacitive voltage differential across the bearings
02:55 PM lcvette: changed that after seeing what the pncconfig changed
02:57 PM jesseg: miss0r, very cool though. You could even use threaded rod as a die and "screw" it in thus cutting threads into, let's say, solid tungsten carbide.
02:57 PM miss0r: jesseg: the spindle housing is grounded, like there is no tomorrow :] Theres 4 motor brushes in there transferring power to the spindle
02:57 PM miss0r: jesseg: Sure, but in that case i'd need something a little more accurate than an RC servo to drive the spindle rotation
02:58 PM andypugh: lcvette: If the error is “No Dice” then have you tried adding dice. If the error is something else then it would help to decribe it.
03:01 PM jesseg: miss0r, hmmmm.. so you have 4 carbon-copper brushes in parallel with the bearings? That could still cause some voltage bursts across the bearings.
03:01 PM jesseg: but maybe if the bearings are well lubricated they have enough resistance it won't hurt them.
03:01 PM andypugh: Probably a reasonably good excuse to use hybrid bearings.
03:02 PM lcvette: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdV-rRbPDHA
03:02 PM lcvette: you can hear the the bog on any of the cut entries and keep in mind this is supposed to be a 2.2kw motor
03:02 PM miss0r: jesseg: The bearings are "floating", they are mounted in a POM housing inside the aluminium house
03:03 PM lcvette: andypugh, sorry... nothing happens, the light on gmoccapy turns green but no spindle movement
03:03 PM jesseg: miss0r, OH, bearings are mounted in plastic? ok just ignore me :D :D :D
03:03 PM fragalot: best advice yet
03:03 PM fragalot: :D
03:03 PM jesseg: I'll say :P
03:04 PM miss0r: jesseg: I've been working long enough with motors and VFDs to know that just a little trickle can wreck bearings in a matter of months
03:04 PM andypugh: lcvette: Is the PID output increasing? Is there a voltage on the 7i77 analogue output, is the drive enable being set?
03:05 PM jesseg: miss0r, super cool.
03:05 PM andypugh: Steel-race ceramic-ball bearings are actually quite inexpensive: https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p187925/6082RS-Budget-Ceramic-Hybrid-Stainless-Steel-Rubber-Sealed-Deep-Groove-Ball-Bearing-8x22x7mm/product_info.html
03:06 PM miss0r: jesseg: thanks. I have been spending alot of time on it
03:08 PM jesseg: miss0r, are you using water or kerosene?
03:08 PM fragalot: only the best scotch
03:08 PM jesseg: LOL
03:08 PM Tom_itx: andypugh, i tried some similar and i don't think they lasted as long as regular steel bearings
03:09 PM fragalot: Tom_itx: it depends on the application
03:09 PM andypugh: I was only suggesting them for spark-erosion machine applications.
03:09 PM jesseg: yeah, you know, good tool steel can have an incredibly durable surface. I really don't think they could match that with glass.
03:09 PM Tom_itx: i see
03:09 PM lcvette: andypugh: I have voltage going out as expected on the analog pins
03:09 PM lcvette: commanding 3000rpm shows 5v
03:09 PM jesseg: but yeah glass balled bearings would be very handy for EDM/ECM type configurations
03:10 PM miss0r: jesseg: water
03:10 PM jesseg: miss0r, cool!
03:10 PM andypugh: lcvette: Then presumably its the spindle drive-enable?
03:10 PM jesseg: miss0r, what kind of spark control circuitry?
03:12 PM pcw_mesa: lcvette what does commanding -3000 rpm show on the analog output?
03:13 PM miss0r: jesseg: arduino controlled RC
03:14 PM lcvette: pcw_mesa: -5.00v
03:14 PM lcvette: so analog is working must need an enable
03:14 PM lcvette: my bussy wired his 0-10v
03:14 PM lcvette: buddy
03:14 PM miss0r: its basically just a big powersupply, charging a capasitor through a big resistor. and the arduino just has to adjust the spart gap to have it run stable
03:14 PM lcvette: so must be enabling via the fwd and rev pins
03:14 PM lcvette: need to see if i can find an enable pin on the drive
03:15 PM fragalot: miss0r: what power are you pumping into the electrode?
03:15 PM gloops: using mesa card lcvette?
03:15 PM lcvette: andypugh: should i return the line 391 as it was?
03:16 PM miss0r: fragalot: at the moment ~30-40 volts at 15 amps. I am thinking I need to make it 50 amps
03:16 PM andypugh: If you want. But then I don’t think you wil see -5V, you will see 0V for negative speeds.
03:16 PM lcvette: ah
03:16 PM lcvette: ok
03:16 PM lcvette: nevermind
03:16 PM lcvette: :)
03:16 PM lcvette: thank you I will try and uncover what pin is required for enabling
03:17 PM miss0r: The proto type was alot more beefy when it came to power. I'll need to make this one so as well.
03:18 PM miss0r: fragalot: I would love to have a switchmode psu, where I can regulate the the output frequenzy(PWM style)
03:20 PM pcw_mesa: lcvette: you should probably also use analog out 5 for the spindle
03:22 PM pcw_mesa: (just in case you want to use any of the other analog outputs eventually)
03:23 PM fragalot: miss0r: what about a constant current source?
03:23 PM miss0r: I guess that would work
03:23 PM miss0r: but I would rather have the spark gap determin that
03:23 PM fragalot: a few meanwell HLG-600H's would do well
03:23 PM fragalot: pfft. :P fine
03:24 PM miss0r: I have two 236amp 12v switchmode psu's laying around
03:24 PM jesseg: miss0r, yeah when I first heard about EDM I was like drawing up plans for a microcomputer controlled spark by spark control circuit, but never built it. If you keep bugging me I might actually be able to get around to it sort of soon - be glad to make an open source design and send you a prototype. (I'm an electronics design engineer by trade..) 2 years ago I quit by job and went freelance so I have more flexibility in just taking a couple weeks to do a
03:24 PM jesseg: fun project
03:24 PM miss0r: Too bad they are not 30 volts, that would have rocked
03:24 PM fragalot: hehe
03:24 PM * fragalot looks at his old inverter welder
03:24 PM * fragalot looks at miss0r
03:24 PM miss0r: jesseg: That would be cool :)
03:24 PM * fragalot looks back at the welder
03:25 PM miss0r: No kitty, thats a bad kitty!
03:25 PM miss0r: hmm.. I have an old electrode welder in the basement somewhere.. I wonder what that output of that beast is...
03:25 PM miss0r: One thing is for sure though, that would FRIE the living bejesus out of my 4 6mm brushes
03:26 PM fragalot: that's what the limiting resistor, or current setting is for
03:26 PM miss0r: current setting is the spark gap controlled by an arduino.. meh.. the resistor though
03:26 PM miss0r: sure..
03:26 PM jesseg: I don't think you need much current. I think all the work is done in the extremely short nanoseconds of the initial arc. After that, it just turns to plasma and creates heat, so the trick is to stop the arc as soon as it starts and so you can go again sooner.
03:27 PM miss0r: Its a handwound beast on cheramic bearings... with a fan blowing air through it at all times
03:27 PM fragalot: I think my inverter only puts out around 30V or so though
03:27 PM miss0r: jesseg: indeed. I just need to hit the 'sweet spot' where the output capasitor is not taking too long to charge
03:27 PM lcvette: andypugh: net spindle-enable hm2_7i92.0.7i77.0.0.output-09
03:27 PM lcvette: is that ok?
03:27 PM fragalot: and I /think/ it goes to 200A... i'd have to check, it's around 15yrs old and I don't use it very often
03:27 PM jesseg: miss0r, right
03:28 PM miss0r: I probally should use a smaller output cap though
03:28 PM lcvette: it was my spindle-cw
03:28 PM fragalot: miss0r: hehe, there's a nice DIY buzz-box at my dad's place too that was there when he bought the house (presumably because it was too heavy to move)
03:28 PM andypugh: lcvette: Is there an enable for analogout.05 ?
03:28 PM fragalot: you adjust the current by unbolting your welding lead & bolting it onto a different tap in the transformer
03:28 PM miss0r: fragalot: That sounds exactly like something i'd want on my portable setup here :D
03:29 PM andypugh: lcvette: Sorry, ignore that question
03:29 PM fragalot: and the transformer is made out of.. wlel, it's basically bent bus-bar
03:29 PM miss0r: it 'does' sound sexy though
03:29 PM andypugh: You already said that the analogout is working
03:29 PM fragalot: :P
03:29 PM miss0r: I have a thing for 'power electronics' :)
03:29 PM fragalot: i've tried it at it's max setting once,.. it just vaporized a 3mm stick
03:29 PM lcvette: these were the spindle-cw outputs
03:30 PM andypugh: lcvette: You might prefer to use the spindle-on signal rather than the spindle-enable signal.
03:30 PM miss0r: I have a bucket filled to the brim with some pretty decent sized IGBT transistors, should I ever need to replace a few in a VFD...
03:30 PM lcvette: and they are programmed in the drive to become the enable when using +/-10v analog
03:30 PM miss0r: and I have a thyristor the size of a fist :] 27kA 1800v
03:31 PM miss0r: I used that back in the day for my coil gun projects
03:31 PM lcvette: net spindle-on hm2_7i92.0.7i77.0.0.output-09
03:31 PM fragalot: miss0r: well, you /COULD/ replace the resistor with an IGBT & regulate the current (or voltage) going into the cap that way,.. but at what point is there a diminishing return of investment? :P
03:32 PM fragalot: I guess you regulate current going into cap, and regulate voltage over cap using the spark gap
03:34 PM miss0r: That was my first setup, actualy. I abandoned that plan, as I failed misurable at it :)
03:34 PM fragalot: :P
03:35 PM miss0r: My theory was charging a large cap bank with a pulsing igbt through a resistor (this, in my mind atleast, should allow me to regulate voltage). then an output IGBT for sparking.
03:35 PM fragalot: I haven't done much with power electronics.. only thing I tried was to make a 12V->6V DC/DC converter for my trabant that could handle running the 6V starter motor off of a 12V battery
03:35 PM miss0r: It worked for a while
03:35 PM miss0r: then it gave up the ghost.. alot
03:35 PM fragalot: which required a PNP circuit, which I never got working
03:35 PM miss0r: :D
03:36 PM fragalot: if you're pulsing anyway, why the resistor? :P
03:36 PM fragalot: it'd be neater to run it through an inductor instead
03:37 PM miss0r: well... imagine the current pull
03:37 PM fragalot: that's what the inductor is for
03:37 PM miss0r: yeah, that is the 'correct' way. But I did not know that then
03:37 PM miss0r: I never got the voltage regulation to work on the input side. I ended up using a vario trafo to keep it charged
03:38 PM miss0r: the output pulsing worked somewhat OK.. I had it running 2.2khz
03:38 PM miss0r: make nice little sparkles'n stuff
03:39 PM miss0r: I'm having a hard time finding a schematic for a rockwell automation servo: B3633-3Y+1000LD+TRIAD+25WAY D
03:39 PM miss0r: anyone have one? :)
03:40 PM * fragalot walks away whilst he still can
03:41 PM miss0r: ^^
03:52 PM miss0r: bah.. I need a 1mm allen wrench to unscrew this part
03:52 PM fragalot: you mean you don't have them in .1mm increments starting at .7mm ?
03:53 PM miss0r: sadly no... I guess I could just swing by and borrow yours?
03:54 PM fragalot: sure
03:54 PM miss0r: but I guess I don't 'realy' need to take this servo that much apart... I get 0.0ohm between all windings
03:54 PM miss0r: and they look pretty tar black in there :D
03:54 PM fragalot: lol
03:55 PM fragalot: send it out to get rewound :P
03:55 PM miss0r: but I just don't understand it. The machine it was on did a few "steps" with it before quitting
03:55 PM miss0r: nah. lol. I just looked up the used price for these, and they are dirt cheap. less than 100eur
03:55 PM fragalot: hence the :P
03:56 PM miss0r: You can't just put that at the end of everything you say, should it turn out to be stupid ;)
03:56 PM miss0r: I see through you
03:56 PM fragalot: it's the classic "let's see if this works, if not, I'll say it was tongue-in-cheek" :P
03:57 PM fragalot: works every time, 50% of the time.
03:58 PM andypugh: 100 eur for another motor that does exactly the same?
04:04 PM miss0r: yeah
04:04 PM miss0r: well, hopefully it works, but otherwise the same
04:05 PM fragalot: it's fairly normal for them to do that when the 3x480VAC bleeds straight through the driver to the motor because there's a chip in it
04:09 PM miss0r: hmm... Looking at the drive history, it seems the only error on the list is 'Excess Velocity Error Fault' and 'Commutation Angle Error'...
04:09 PM miss0r: That sounds more like a dead encoder to me
04:10 PM miss0r: Although, I cannot make sense of the readings of the motor
04:23 PM Deejay: gn8
06:31 PM hazzy-lab: Can I read/set any HAL pin from python?
06:32 PM hazzy-lab: I've been using subprocess and halcmd, but I just realized I might be able to do it directly
06:35 PM cradek: your python program should have its pins, and you hook them up like any other pins to interface with what you want
06:36 PM cradek: it is impressively easy: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/halmodule.html
06:46 PM hazzy-lab: Thanks cradek! I am working on something like halshow, so I am interested in reading/setting preexisting pins
06:46 PM hazzy-lab: I have to go, but will be back in a bit
07:04 PM andypugh: hazzy-lab: You can shell out to halcmd
07:22 PM hazzy-lab: andypugh: by 'shell out' do you mean tuse something like popen?
07:28 PM andypugh: example: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/e375e3affcebc61f594f731a7ce392c415a808e5/tests/halui/jogging/test-ui.py#L26
07:30 PM hazzy-lab: Ok, that is basically what I am doing now, but using subprocess.Popen which is supposedly preferred over os.system
07:31 PM hazzy-lab: How does hal.setprefix() work? I can't figure out how to use it, keep getting errors like this
07:31 PM hazzy-lab: >>> h.setprefix("axis.x")
07:31 PM hazzy-lab: >>> h["pos-cmd"]
07:31 PM hazzy-lab: Traceback (most recent call last):
07:31 PM hazzy-lab: File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
07:31 PM hazzy-lab: AttributeError: Pin 'pos-cmd' does not exist
07:31 PM hazzy-lab: >>>
07:32 PM hazzy-lab: But axis.x.pos-cmd does exist!!
07:35 PM Tom_L: talk nicer to it
07:35 PM andypugh: Sorry, don’t know.
07:36 PM Tom_L: i'm wondering if that motor/drive is any good now :(
07:38 PM Tom_L: andypugh, if a drive has encoder feedback to it's amp can i still use an external encoder to feed back to linuxcnc to regulate the analog to the amp?
07:38 PM hazzy-lab: Ok, thank you andypugh! At least now I know that calling halcmd from python is a reasonable way to do it
07:39 PM andypugh: Tom_L: Many amps echo the encoder feedback back out for exactly that purpose.
07:39 PM Tom_L: the problem is the encoder is rather fine
07:39 PM Tom_L: on one particular one i'm looking at
07:40 PM Tom_L: not sure how lcnc would keep up with it
07:40 PM andypugh: And also, servo drives that do that often have a programmable divider for the output encoder counts.
07:40 PM andypugh: Mesa cards can count at 10MHz. Is it faster than that?
07:40 PM Tom_L: that would be helpful
07:41 PM andypugh: Anyway, time to sleep
07:43 PM Tom_L: 65536 ppr
07:43 PM Tom_L: is that doable?
07:44 PM hazzy-lab: Good enough: https://i.imgur.com/m51pBoF.png
07:44 PM Tom_L: for you graphical interface?
07:45 PM hazzy-lab: Yes, it will be a dialog in the screen designer for selecting which HAL pin value a HAL display widget should show
07:46 PM Tom_itx: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/ac-servo-motors/dmm-dyn4-servo-kit-750w-w-nema-34-frame/
07:46 PM Tom_L: wonder if that would work on the spindle
07:49 PM hazzy-lab: Tom_L: For a Sherline spindle?
07:49 PM Tom_L: yes
07:49 PM skunkworks: Tom_L: so 4X that?
07:50 PM Tom_itx: with mounted 16bits absolute encoder [65,536ppr resolution]
07:50 PM Tom_L: you tell me :(
07:54 PM hazzy-lab: You'd be able to do some high precision ridged tapping :D
07:54 PM Tom_itx: http://www.dmm-tech.com/Dyn4_main.html#jmp1
07:54 PM Tom_L: wonder if i can just get it straight from them
07:54 PM Tom_L: the 2nd driver and the top motor in the chart
07:56 PM Tom_L: probably have to buy cables and a setup cable for it
10:12 PM roycroft: so folks, what does "farm duty" mean when classifying an electric motor?
10:12 PM roycroft: keeps on running even when sprayed with manure?
10:14 PM Tom_L: completely sealed?
10:14 PM Tom_L: https://www.baldor.com/mvc/DownloadCenter/Files/BR424
10:15 PM roycroft: i know this motor is tefc
10:15 PM roycroft: i was assuming "farm duty" would mean designed for a rugged environment, and able to withstand abuse
10:15 PM roycroft: because
10:15 PM roycroft: well
10:15 PM roycroft: that describes farmer stuff
10:16 PM roycroft: the one i just picked up is a baldor, and it's that same tan color
10:16 PM Tom_L: Heavy duty epoxy paint to withstand the harsh
10:16 PM Tom_L: environments farm duty motors are subjected to.
10:16 PM Tom_L: Majority of totally enclosed designs feature sealed
10:16 PM Tom_L: bearings on both ends and a lip seal and V-ring
10:16 PM Tom_L: slinger on the drive end of the motor to help to
10:16 PM Tom_L: keep contaminants out.
10:16 PM roycroft: i'm replacing the motor on a wood band saw
10:16 PM Tom_L: Class B, F, and H insulation system depending on
10:16 PM Tom_L: application
10:17 PM roycroft: doubling the horsepower
10:17 PM roycroft: so all that is good stuff
10:17 PM roycroft: it's going to be a sawdusty environment
10:17 PM roycroft: i don't plan on flinging manure at it though
10:17 PM Tom_L: designed to go to hell and back and survive.
10:17 PM roycroft: yeah, so i'm happy
10:17 PM roycroft: 1-1/2hp for $50, single phase
10:17 PM roycroft: and it will outlive me, i'm sure
10:18 PM Tom_L: i wish finding my motor was that damn easy
10:18 PM roycroft: getting a 1-1/2hp single phase motor was my first choice
10:18 PM roycroft: finding on that runs at 1725rpm that is decent quality for a good price proved difficult
10:18 PM roycroft: 3450rpm motors are much more common
10:19 PM roycroft: but then i started thinking that maybe i'd get a 3-phase motor and a vfd, so i can have variable speed if i ever want it
10:19 PM roycroft: i've been looking around for a decent motor like that for a few months
10:19 PM roycroft: and then this one was posted on cl
10:19 PM roycroft: so i went back to plan 1
10:20 PM roycroft: the bandsaw wheel shaft is pretty long, as is the shaft on the motor i just got
10:20 PM roycroft: so i might install step sheaves, and at least get two speeds, which would be fine
10:20 PM roycroft: it might be nice to be able to cut steel on a vertical bandsaw once in a while
10:23 PM roycroft: yeah, this motor is $633 list, and goes for $300-$400 new online + outrageous shipping
10:23 PM roycroft: so $50 is great :)
10:23 PM Rab: roycroft, that is great. Compare: https://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-1-1-2-HP-General-Purpose-Motor-5K565
10:24 PM roycroft: dayton motors are good motors
10:24 PM roycroft: baldor are at least as good as dayton
10:24 PM Rab: But I can beat it. A guy I know owned an e-waste place, went out of business and let me pick through the warehouse. I found that same Dayton motor, brand new, with a dent in the fan shroud that kept the motor from turning.
10:25 PM roycroft: that's like a 83 second fix
10:25 PM roycroft: if you're good
10:25 PM Rab: Indeed. 83 seconds later I put it on my mill: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/mill/mill_rack.jpg
10:25 PM roycroft: 3 minutes and 17 seconds if you're not good
10:26 PM roycroft: nice
10:26 PM roycroft: the used motor business has gone crazy
10:26 PM roycroft: good quality used motors used to be really common, and really cheap
10:26 PM roycroft: but folks ask more than new ones cost these days
10:26 PM Rab: Those mills only came with 1/2 and 3/4HP motors...1.5HP is grotesque excess. But I guess the belts will slip before the motor ever bogs down.
10:26 PM roycroft: i blame it on ebay and bid mania
10:27 PM roycroft: when i was working on plan 2, i was finding decent prices on 2hp 3-phase motors
10:27 PM roycroft: but not 1-1/2hp
10:27 PM roycroft: and i figure that 1-1/2hp is the exact power i need
10:27 PM roycroft: 1hp would not be a big enough step-up from the 3/4hp that the saw came with
10:28 PM roycroft: and at 2hp i figured i'd probably have to beef up the bandsaw wheel bearings
10:28 PM roycroft: the wheels are 14" in diameter
10:28 PM roycroft: my lathe is 13"
10:28 PM roycroft: so i'd have a difficult time boring the wheels out for larger bearings
10:28 PM roycroft: i did not want to go there, and i've had a 1-1/2hp bandsaw before - i know that is enough power for what i need to do
10:29 PM roycroft: 1-1/2hp motors draw 16a or so at 120vac
10:29 PM roycroft: i think that's why they're so popular (hence scarce on the used market)
10:29 PM roycroft: 2hp would pop most people's breakers
10:29 PM Rab: Yeah, sought after for the home shop.
10:30 PM roycroft: 1-1/2hp is the biggest motor one can practically run on 120vac single phase
10:30 PM roycroft: i'll run it on 240v, of course
10:30 PM roycroft: because the power cord will be cheaper
10:31 PM Rab: And the motor will be more efficient, and have more torque.
10:31 PM roycroft: yeah, all that good stuff
10:31 PM roycroft: i run almost all my tools on "high" voltage
10:32 PM Rab: Do you have a preferred 220VAC receptacle?
10:33 PM roycroft: most my shop extension cords are 12ga with l6-20 plugs and receptacles
10:33 PM roycroft: most of
10:33 PM roycroft: i always use locking receptacles/plugs for that stuff
10:34 PM roycroft: higher amperage not always
10:34 PM roycroft: but at least through 30a i use locking connectors
10:35 PM Rab: I was gonna wire my workshop with locking receptacles, but couldn't justify the cost for the light equipment I have. Just used plain 6-20R.
10:35 PM roycroft: http://www.zymurgasm.com/BrewSystem/ControlPanel/RearPanel.jpeg
10:35 PM roycroft: my brew system control panel, for example
10:36 PM roycroft: and that's a 50a inlet at the lower right
10:36 PM Rab: Very nice! What takes so much power in brewing? Electric heaters?
10:36 PM roycroft: yes
10:37 PM roycroft: and i sometimes use two at a time
10:37 PM roycroft: a 6500 watt heater for my hot liquor tank
10:37 PM roycroft: and a 1500w heater for my mash tun
10:37 PM roycroft: plus there are three pumps, and some electric valves, and pids and stuff
10:38 PM roycroft: but basically, i peel off a 240vac 25a circuit in the panel for the hot liquor tank heater, a 120vac 20a circuit for the mash tun heater, and a 120vac 20a circuit for the dc stuff and the ac motors
10:41 PM roycroft: http://www.zymurgasm.com/BrewSystem/ControlPanelWiring/ChassisWiringDiagram.pdf
10:41 PM hazzy-lab: nice brew rig roycroft!
10:41 PM roycroft: that's part of the wiring diagram
10:42 PM roycroft: and forgive the mess, but this is what it actually looked like while i was wiring it
10:42 PM roycroft: http://www.zymurgasm.com/BrewSystem/ControlPanelWiring/ChassisWiring1.jpeg
10:42 PM roycroft: http://www.zymurgasm.com/BrewSystem/ControlPanelWiring/ChassisWiring3.jpeg
10:42 PM roycroft: that doesn't show quite as much, but it's tidied up a bit there
10:42 PM roycroft: i can't find pics of the whole thing completed
10:42 PM roycroft: thanks, hazzy-lab
10:44 PM roycroft: http://www.zymurgasm.com/BrewSystem/ControlPanel/ControlPanelChassis.jpeg
10:44 PM hazzy-lab: This looks good: http://www.zymurgasm.com/BrewSystem/ControlPanelWiring/FirstPowerUp/ChassisWiring.jpeg
10:44 PM roycroft: aah, there's the whole chassis
10:45 PM roycroft: http://www.zymurgasm.com/BrewSystem/ControlPanel/ControlPanelFrontPanel.jpeg
10:45 PM roycroft: and the front panel wiring
10:45 PM hazzy-lab: It's rare to see nice wood work, metal work and electrical work in one place
10:46 PM roycroft: the first iteration of the control panel had everything from the front panel hard-wired to the chassis components
10:46 PM roycroft: that was very difficult to deal with
10:46 PM roycroft: i had a small fire that destroyed the original front panel
10:46 PM roycroft: and when i rebuilt it i decided that using molex connectors was the right thing to do
10:46 PM roycroft: i am so glad i did that
10:47 PM roycroft: i can disconnect the front panel in seconds for servicing it
10:47 PM roycroft: or for easy access to service the chassis components
10:48 PM roycroft: i could have done the wiring a bit more neatly, but it's better than the average control panel wiring
10:48 PM roycroft: and it would have been a whole lot more work to do it any more neatly
10:48 PM hazzy-lab: Looks very professional, if I had done it you'd have to throw everything in and try to get the front panel on fast enough before everything fell out :)
10:49 PM roycroft: i did make complete schematics for everything, and i labeled every single wire
10:49 PM * roycroft heads out to the barbie to finish making dinner
10:50 PM hazzy-lab: overachiever ;)
10:50 PM hazzy-lab: enjoy!
11:02 PM Tom_L: ok that last drive i looked at is way overkill for this
11:02 PM Tom_L: where's the simple solution when you want one?
11:07 PM roycroft: hazzy: i don't know what beachbumpete's electrical skills are, but he beats me handily on metal skills, and probably on woodworking skills as well
11:26 PM CaptHindsight: .
11:28 PM Tom_L: .
11:28 PM CaptHindsight: 22:53
11:29 PM CaptHindsight: just checking the log time
11:31 PM CaptHindsight: what pings times between planets must feel like
11:35 PM CaptHindsight: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/mill/mill_rack.jpg that belt is really just out there with no guard?
11:35 PM Tom_L: pre OSHA
11:36 PM CaptHindsight: and longer hair
11:37 PM Tom_L: i'm a little skeptical to try that ebay bldc after what lcvette said about them
11:38 PM Tom_L: full blown servo would be way overkill
11:39 PM Tom_L: doesn't seem to be anything in between
11:39 PM CaptHindsight: run the numbers
11:39 PM Tom_L: 500 for the servo
11:39 PM Tom_L: 200 for chinaco junk
11:40 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brushless-DC-BLDC-Motor-Speed-Control-1100W-6000rpm-CNC-Sieg-X2-X3-BF20-G0704/153059732033?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160727114228%26meid%3D45fda1351bfa4e74aaa3f318360fa75e%26pid%3D100290%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D153059732033%26itm%3D153059732033&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507
11:40 PM nallar is now known as Ross
11:41 PM CaptHindsight: 2:1 pulley only?
11:41 PM Tom_L: huh?
11:41 PM CaptHindsight: or ~2:1
11:41 PM Tom_L: right now mine is geared up
11:41 PM CaptHindsight: ration from motor to spindle
11:41 PM Tom_L: about 1:1.7ish
11:42 PM Tom_L: and i get about 5500 at the spindle
11:42 PM Tom_L: tops
11:42 PM Tom_L: i don't go over 4k though
11:42 PM CaptHindsight: can always add step pulleys
11:42 PM Tom_L: to which one?
11:42 PM CaptHindsight: your spindle and motor are mounted on the head that moves in Z vs the table correct?
11:43 PM Tom_L: yes
11:44 PM Tom_L: z is on a 3:1 belt right now with a 570 in/oz stepper
11:44 PM CaptHindsight: no low end torque on the Chinaco BLDC motor
11:44 PM Tom_L: https://store.dmm-tech.com/products/dht-0-75kw-ac-servo-motor
11:44 PM Tom_L: https://store.dmm-tech.com/products/dyn4-h01a2-00-dyn4-ac-servo-drive
11:45 PM Tom_L: was the other one i was looking at
11:45 PM Tom_L: i'd have to make some interface changes
11:45 PM Tom_L: either +-10v or modbus
11:45 PM CaptHindsight: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/2kUAAOSwfHJa-m9o/s-l1600.jpg 1.8Nm
11:46 PM CaptHindsight: @6000 rpm
11:46 PM Tom_L: probably that same motor
11:47 PM Tom_L: same numbers on the sticker
11:47 PM CaptHindsight: Rated Torque 2.4Nm but no curves
11:47 PM CaptHindsight: https://store.dmm-tech.com/products/dht-0-75kw-ac-servo-motor
11:48 PM CaptHindsight: Rated Voltage 150V
11:49 PM CaptHindsight: no cures for either motor
11:50 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.dmm-tech.com/Files/ACSMTR-G1-1002A17A.pdf
11:50 PM CaptHindsight: the spec has some torque curves
11:53 PM CaptHindsight: if I had to chose between the two I'd use the AC servo
11:53 PM Tom_L: probably but i'll have to change some stuff to get it wired up
11:54 PM Tom_L: it just seemed like overkill
11:54 PM CaptHindsight: price is similar?
11:55 PM Tom_L: 500 with wires etc
11:55 PM CaptHindsight: oh 500 vs 200
11:55 PM Tom_L: setup wire , encoder and motor wire
11:55 PM Tom_L: 45 shipping
11:55 PM CaptHindsight: well even the BLDC might be better than what you have now but it's a Chinaco nopsec
11:56 PM Tom_L: but i may need one of their parallel port wires too, i'm not sure which one
11:56 PM Tom_L: lcvette said he had a couple and a couple bad drives
11:56 PM sync: the motors are actually very nice
11:59 PM CaptHindsight: sync: the BLDC?
11:59 PM Tom_L: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/ac-servo-motors/dmm-dyn4-servo-kit-750w-w-nema-34-frame/