#linuxcnc Logs
Jun 07 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:06 AM ziper: just drink milk
01:26 AM MintasticMint: anyone here familair with the k40 laser cutter and their clones?
01:34 AM MintasticMint: having a bit of trouble with mienif anyone wants to help
01:51 AM IchGucksLive: morning from germany
01:51 AM IchGucksLive: rough night here as thunder in paradise
01:52 AM IchGucksLive: MintasticMint, still on
01:55 AM MintasticMint: for a bit, yeah
02:01 AM MintasticMint: IchGucksLive
02:06 AM IchGucksLive: so what is your main problem with the k40 MintasticMint
02:07 AM MintasticMint: im getting really shity raster engraves
02:07 AM IchGucksLive: it is noemaly selfexplaining
02:07 AM MintasticMint: one moment, ill upload some pictures
02:07 AM IchGucksLive: 1000dpi tiff or bmp
02:07 AM IchGucksLive: you may got 72 dpi
02:07 AM IchGucksLive: 300dpi is minimum
02:07 AM MintasticMint: im using k40 whisperer and im importing SVGs
02:08 AM IchGucksLive: svg is cutter
02:08 AM IchGucksLive: not engrave
02:09 AM MintasticMint: well i tried using the shitty software it comes with and i got the same issue
02:09 AM IchGucksLive: there is a manual in the box that says clearly what format to use for cut and engrave
02:09 AM IchGucksLive: same issue with same image i guess
02:09 AM MintasticMint: which i followed
02:10 AM IchGucksLive: are you able if no restrict to upload the image you are troubleing
02:10 AM IchGucksLive: sorry for the bad english im in germany
02:10 AM MintasticMint: i have heard worse
02:12 AM MintasticMint: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hijsmrmbpj0lcni/photo_2018-06-07_02-21-02.jpg?dl=0
02:13 AM IchGucksLive: what i see it is the image settings need to be reduced to 0,05
02:13 AM IchGucksLive: it seams as it is at 0,25
02:14 AM IchGucksLive: you can try 0,1
02:14 AM IchGucksLive: in master menue settings scanwide
02:14 AM MintasticMint: in which program?
02:14 AM IchGucksLive: if you are on mm if pixels say 100
02:14 AM IchGucksLive: i use the corelment
02:15 AM IchGucksLive: witch comes with
02:15 AM IchGucksLive: came
02:15 AM MintasticMint: oh, i dont have corel
02:15 AM MintasticMint: i tried with whisperer and laserdrw
02:15 AM MintasticMint: http://www.scorchworks.com/K40whisperer/k40whisperer.html
02:17 AM MintasticMint: anyways, im very overdue for bed
02:20 AM MintasticMint: but yeah, the raster engraves are very bloy and crap. im thinking it may be a power problem. i have 2 things to try is switching from tap water to distilled which ill do while im out and try engraving some basic shapes in laserdrw and see how that does about and see if i have similat issues still i have this set at 50-60% power and im still more melting the plastic then actually vaporizing
02:20 AM MintasticMint: it like it should do and i know that people do some really nice engraves at like 30ish so im not sure if its my shity tap water or some other power issue
02:23 AM IchGucksLive: as i see havetone setting is bad
02:23 AM MintasticMint: i have halftone turned off
02:24 AM MintasticMint: anyays i have an apointntmnt in less then a few hours and im just getting tired so im gona head to bed
02:24 AM IchGucksLive: ok
02:25 AM IchGucksLive: what is the scann setting
02:25 AM MintasticMint: hm?
02:25 AM IchGucksLive: in the setting menue there is rastersetting
02:25 AM MintasticMint: which program?
02:25 AM IchGucksLive: first option scan setting
02:26 AM IchGucksLive: k40wisperer
02:26 AM IchGucksLive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=11&v=wdRsg4wllmo
02:26 AM IchGucksLive: at 6:42
02:27 AM MintasticMint: oh, i have halftone turned off so its just ignoreing greys
02:28 AM MintasticMint: when its off the halftone resolution is greyed out
02:29 AM Deejay: moin
02:31 AM IchGucksLive: sorry im off im called
03:27 AM gloops: ive noticed on the forums and groups that laser and router work is becoming oversupplied
03:28 AM gloops: and it will surely happen with every other aspect of machining
03:29 AM gloops: read a post about postage costs - ebay suppliers of laser and router bits and bobs selling items with free postage - that can barely be made for the cost of that postage
03:31 AM gloops: the conclusion was that you are competing with the chinese - who are quite happy to work for a few pennies per item markup, they dont get free postage off anyone, they pay the post costs and make 10 pennies per item
03:37 AM gloops: so cncisation in the west has pressed the chinese down, but they still survive, they cant make much and wont get rich, but they still keep the western shop from starting up at all
03:42 AM gloops: example an item for sale at £3 - you can make that item for £0.50, so youre gonna makle £2.50 - fine
03:43 AM gloops: but the post is £3 - total cost £6
03:44 AM gloops: chinese sells the item for £3.60 free post, he pays the post, it cost him £0.30 to make, he makes £0.30 - and hes happy with that
03:52 AM rmu: gloops: chinese "free post" stuff takes forever to deliver, at least to austria (3weeks+)
04:01 AM gloops: rmu they enlist western ebay sellers to sell the products, you dont even know theyve come from china, they just ship loads over and dump it on the markets through pro ebayers
04:03 AM rmu: ok, i misunderstood what you meant with "laser and router work"
04:07 AM gloops: not talking about bespoke or made to measure etc, thats probably always going to be fairly local
04:08 AM gloops: mainly small items, or any item where the postage cost is significant relative to the item cost
04:08 AM gloops: $200 thing - not so much an issue
04:17 AM gloops: a lot of these little led signs and ornaments for example, you think yeah i can make those on my small router - but you wont make any profit if you look at the market
05:14 AM XXCoder: lol! found a comic I didnt know existed, and started reading arcive, in 1996 it talks about V-chip. completely forgot about it! seems it never come around.
05:56 AM jthornton: XXCoder: I finally put the firewood splitter up for the year... all my racks are full
05:56 AM XXCoder: nice
05:56 AM XXCoder: good for while
05:57 AM jthornton: yea last winter was a rough one, burned a lot of firewood
06:08 AM Tom_L: morning
06:10 AM jthornton: morning
06:13 AM Tom_L: can't tell if a storm's movin in or if it will break apart as it arrives
06:18 AM Tom_L: you heat your shop on wood and propane for the house?
06:18 AM jthornton: yea, garage, machine shop and new shop are wood heat
06:19 AM jthornton: house is propane
08:17 AM unterhausen: some are speculating that we are training an AI with the capcha picture thing
08:18 AM miss0r: I'm having a realy hard time finding a good local CF-19 laptop...
08:20 AM miss0r: and when the AI comes to take over the world, it will beat all of the children in memory decks! :D
08:22 AM rmu: lol
08:41 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
08:41 AM IchGucksLive: sunny and near summertime temps
09:09 AM IchGucksLive: im off later bye
09:38 AM phipli: anyone moved to Ubuntu 18 yet?
09:47 AM MintasticMint: im awke now
09:47 AM MintasticMint: anyone have a bit to help me wih some troubles with the raster engraving of my k40 clone laser?
09:57 AM devlap: haha oh man I got some acrylic. Went through it super fast and I got a mess to clean up as it just threw waste across the room.
09:57 AM devlap: All over my office.
09:59 AM MintasticMint: im hoping that its just my shitty tap water causing underpower and arcing issues
10:01 AM flyback: anyone who want to understand better some fundamental aspects of how a cpu etc work
10:02 AM flyback: <flyback> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS0N5baNlQWJCUrhCEo8WlA
10:03 AM devlap: flyback, I'm sad he only explained ripple adders.
10:06 AM phipli: https://www.bigmessowires.com/
10:06 AM phipli: https://www.bigmessowires.com/bmow1/
10:07 AM phipli: http://searle.hostei.com/grant/index.html
10:07 AM * phipli goes back to work
10:11 AM devlap: http://www.homebrewcpu.com/
10:16 AM Roguish_ is now known as Roguish
10:21 AM flyback is now known as faceb00k
10:21 AM faceb00k is now known as flyback
11:39 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
11:48 AM fragalot: 'sup
11:50 AM jthornton: lunch moment is over so time to try mortaring the shower pan for the 3rd time...
11:50 AM fragalot: good luck
11:51 AM IchGucksLive: dont kill the chicken
12:04 PM Tom_L: jthornton, maybe you should just take a mortar to it and be done
12:05 PM Tom_L: odd thing mortar is. made to build up as well as tear down :)
12:16 PM fragalot: anyone know where I can get carbide flat bar stock from?
12:17 PM fragalot: similar in size to HSS parting bladezs
12:17 PM Tom_L: https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/Raw-Materials/Metals/Carbide-Blanks?navid=12101820
12:17 PM fragalot: MSCdirect.com is currently not available for your use.
12:17 PM fragalot: nice
12:18 PM Tom_L: https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/tungsten-carbide-bar-stock.html
12:19 PM fragalot: carbide strip stock seems to get me good results, thanks Tom_L
12:26 PM fragalot: https://www.ebay.de/itm/VHM-Schrott-Vollhartmetall-Hartmetall-Schrott-3-3-KG/273257022423?hash=item3f9f6343d7:g:BqwAAOSwJo5bE75V <= that might be worth a go for scraper blade stock, lol
12:50 PM Beachbumpete1: mmm lunchtime ;)
12:50 PM Tom_L: just finished
12:50 PM Tom_L: back to the coal mine
12:50 PM Beachbumpete1: Just started
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8
12:52 PM Beachbumpete1: Anything interesting goin on?
12:52 PM Tom_L: not really. been looking at spindle options for my little mill
12:53 PM Beachbumpete1: Not so little now huh
12:53 PM Tom_L: i can push it harder than the sherline but the sherline spindle motor gets pretty hot
12:54 PM Tom_L: so i need something to better match the machine now
12:54 PM Beachbumpete1: the spindle or the motor?
12:54 PM Tom_L: motor
12:55 PM Tom_L: i could probably keep using the sherline spindle since i've got quite a few holders for it
12:55 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06VY6PM6N/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A16P4TUM521SQ8&psc=1
12:55 PM Tom_L: somebody posted that yesterday
12:55 PM Tom_L: but i'm not sure about external control for it
12:56 PM Beachbumpete1: pricey little bastard
12:57 PM Beachbumpete1: The spindle motor applied to Lathes, Mills, Car Hoists, Pumps & Conveyors, etc. LOL
12:58 PM Tom_L: they don't care what they sell it to you for
12:58 PM Beachbumpete1: obviously
12:58 PM Tom_L: ok, gotta run.
12:58 PM Beachbumpete1: I like the part of the car hoist
12:58 PM Beachbumpete1: ok cya have a good day TOm
01:04 PM fragalot: hm
01:04 PM fragalot: my kiwi smells quite.. fermented
01:12 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: what are you using for a straight edge on your scraping?
01:13 PM fragalot: a straight edge
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: never would have figured
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: iron camel back or?
01:16 PM fragalot: stainless ground DIN/0
01:16 PM CaptHindsight: what size? (rough dimensions)
01:17 PM fragalot: 1m long, 20mm wide, about 60 or 80mm high
01:17 PM fragalot: it's not suitable for dovetails
01:17 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/machine-reconditioning-scraping-and-inspection/building-buying-master-straight-edge-325405/index2.html
01:17 PM fragalot: just your bog standard straight edge
01:18 PM gloops: sounds a bit basic - for the diy cnc in crowd
01:18 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: https://www.pruefmittel24.com/produktA61051000.html?t=Montagelineal-Laenge-1000-mm-breite-Ausfuehrung.-Gen-Nach-DIN-874-0-Doppel-T-Profilstahl-1000x160x50-mm
01:18 PM fragalot: that's the 50mm wide, they have a 30mm wide too
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Busch-Precision-A612-Aluminum-Straight-Edge-3-x-8-x-144-Ground-Finish-/142701544583
01:23 PM CaptHindsight: seems a bit pricey at $8k
01:23 PM CaptHindsight: oh but free pickup
01:23 PM fragalot: xD
01:23 PM gloops: sounds a bit f off at 8k
01:23 PM fragalot: flex might be an issue at that length
01:23 PM fragalot: comes in a nice flight case though
01:25 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc_: https://www.ebay.com/sch/dob.73/m.html
01:26 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mobile-Machining-trailer/142793700281
01:26 PM fragalot: miss0r: ^ :P
01:26 PM gregcnc_: field machinist
01:27 PM fragalot: pretty neat setup
01:27 PM gregcnc_: good money if you can get the work
01:27 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc_: local stuff
01:27 PM gregcnc_: yeah
01:27 PM gloops: not sure about that
01:27 PM fragalot: it makes me kinda sad
01:27 PM fragalot: because that mobile trailer is larger than my entire workshop :P
01:28 PM CaptHindsight: heh, well if you have a driveway....
01:28 PM miss0r: fragalot: Looks like someone snuk into my shop and took pictures.
01:28 PM gloops: why does machining have to take place in situ?
01:28 PM miss0r: They cleaned a bit first, though
01:28 PM gregcnc_: because somtimes bringing the work to the shop isn't practical
01:28 PM CaptHindsight: and it's already a trailer so ocean freight will be ~$4k to just about anywhere
01:28 PM fragalot: gloops: maintenance where time is critical?
01:29 PM gloops: not much of an advantage towing the shop to the site
01:29 PM gloops: rather than taking measurements and postin the part
01:29 PM gloops: can only be in one place at once
01:29 PM miss0r: fragalot: You wouldn't happen to have an old CF-19 laying around at work, you would be willing to sell me for next to nothing? :]
01:30 PM CaptHindsight: no pics of the outside of the trailer
01:30 PM gregcnc_: gloops trust me, they pay good money for that
01:30 PM gloops: CaptHindsight - death metal decals
01:30 PM CaptHindsight: wondering if it's a standard 40ft shipping container or an actual 40ft trailer
01:30 PM fragalot: miss0r: not any more,...
01:30 PM gloops: gregcnc im sure they do, but as said - one job at a time?
01:30 PM miss0r: fragalot: !
01:31 PM gregcnc_: gloops you don't get it
01:31 PM fragalot: miss0r: you wouldn't have wanted it anyway
01:31 PM miss0r: fragalot: Did someone drive it over with a steamroller ? :)
01:31 PM gloops: i get it, gregcnc
01:32 PM fragalot: miss0r: close, but it's spent a lot of time in cement plants :P
01:32 PM gregcnc_: with the questions you're asking?
01:32 PM miss0r: fragalot: Meh.. I'm looking at buying a second hand one from 2nd life computers, in the netherlands
01:32 PM gloops: gregcnc ok people will pay to have a machine shop on the site
01:32 PM fragalot: miss0r: make sure the battery is still worth a damn
01:33 PM gloops: what im saying is, is that the most profitable deployment of those machines? - answer - no
01:33 PM miss0r: fragalot: Not too worried about that. They come cheap, brand new and everything
01:33 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/BLACK-GRANITE-STRAIGHT-EDGE-GRADE-A-OR-000050-/280594576102 $329
01:33 PM miss0r: like 80eur for a new one
01:33 PM gregcnc_: it probably is, because those machines are floorweights in a normal shop
01:34 PM fragalot: prepare to replace the hard disk with a nice SSD whilst you're at it too
01:34 PM CaptHindsight: stress relieved granite
01:34 PM miss0r: fragalot: I would have loved to buy it 'locally' but its double the price
01:34 PM miss0r: The one I'm looking at ships with a 120gb SSD
01:34 PM fragalot: miss0r: welcome to my world :-)
01:35 PM gloops: gregcnc mobile welding is more lucrative
01:35 PM gregcnc_: not very good when they need a machinist
01:35 PM gloops: bring the welder to the heavy item - good thinking, cost effective
01:36 PM gloops: bring the lathe the the job? not so much
01:37 PM gloops: also in the UK, with our pothole situation, that trailer would be a rattling pile of junk by the time it got 50 miles
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: lots of USSR straight edges, can they be trusted?
01:37 PM gloops: nope
01:38 PM gregcnc_: what's wrong with them?
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Precision-Machinist-Straight-Edge-400mm-The-bridge-Class-1-USSR-Top-Grade-/152947372221
01:39 PM gloops: the USSR made inferior copies of nazi technology
01:39 PM gloops: they never had the brains to either make accurate copies or develop anything themselves
01:39 PM gregcnc_: ah well
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: that was before they started getting their info beamed to them from outer space
01:40 PM gregcnc_: the surface looks terrible on that one?
01:40 PM gloops: CaptHindsight the siberian ufo under the ice was a vastly overrated myth
01:41 PM CaptHindsight: precision scratched
01:41 PM CaptHindsight: was true
01:41 PM CaptHindsight: where all the anal probing stories originated
01:41 PM CaptHindsight: ask anyone there
01:41 PM methods_: yes i was probed i can corroborate this
01:42 PM miss0r: ^^
01:42 PM gloops: methods you were the first to volunteer though
01:42 PM methods_: i won't deny these allegations
01:42 PM methods_: i do what i can for earth foreign relations
01:42 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc_: all look poor https://www.ebay.com/itm/Precision-Machinist-Straight-Edge-1000mm-60mm-The-bridge-USSR/153015621983
01:42 PM CaptHindsight: he took one for the team :)
01:43 PM gloops: one small probe for mankind
01:43 PM methods_: it wasn't small
01:43 PM * methods_ will never be the same
01:45 PM gloops: the japanese did a lot better
01:46 PM fragalot: gloops: the russians didn't have that bad of an idea really
01:46 PM fragalot: if you can't make it accurate, make the blast radius bugger
01:46 PM gloops: they took russian blueprints of nazi designs and interpreted them much more precisely
01:46 PM fragalot: igger
01:47 PM fragalot: bgger
01:47 PM fragalot: bigger
01:47 PM fragalot: >.<
01:47 PM gloops: the japanese had the mathematicians
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: did they also invent tofu?
01:47 PM methods_: http://www.businessinsider.com/nasa-curiosity-rover-discovers-methane-clues-martian-life-2018-6
01:48 PM gregcnc_: isn't tofu chinese?
01:48 PM CaptHindsight: or was that more of a found food item?
01:48 PM gloops: fragalot about 10% of russian warheads were actually functional
01:48 PM CaptHindsight: found/forgotten like in a corner
01:48 PM fragalot: gloops: so increase QTY
01:49 PM CaptHindsight: do they distribute the National Enquirer in the UK?
01:49 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.nationalenquirer.com/ for reference
01:49 PM gloops: no to my house, i screwed the letterbox up
01:50 PM CaptHindsight: would explain your sources
01:50 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: i'm not sure if there is an inherent problem with old USSR straight edges.. as long as they don't have hard spots, they've certainly had enough time to age properly,.. and all CI straight edges have to be scraped in prior to use anyway
01:50 PM gloops: 'please try again later'
01:51 PM gregcnc_: I look at the Sun and I look in the Mirror, I'm on the right track
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: Bat Boy must be in his 30's by now
01:53 PM gloops: name 1 single stalwart world class undeniably solid and dependable piece of russian/USSR hardware
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: I'll take “Foods That End In ‘Amburger," for $100
01:54 PM fragalot: their rockets using for most if not all space missions?
01:54 PM fragalot: they seem to work alright
01:55 PM methods_: their helicopters seem to work
01:55 PM gregcnc_: what ever they did to the last election?
01:55 PM methods_: and those gun things they make
01:55 PM fragalot: their social media bots certainly work
01:55 PM methods_: the ak-47
01:55 PM methods_: they have a few of those around
01:55 PM CaptHindsight: first in space
01:56 PM gloops: soyuz rocket did/does work, ok that is 1
01:57 PM gloops: based on V2 tech - the yanks had the same information
01:58 PM gloops: ak-47 yes
01:58 PM gloops: most popular rifle among insurgents and terrorists
01:58 PM fragalot: because it's incredibly cheap, and amazingly reliable
01:59 PM methods_: so what do i win
01:59 PM methods_: gloops> name 1 single stalwart world class undeniably solid and dependable piece of russian/USSR hardware
01:59 PM methods_: heheh
01:59 PM methods_: and don't say an anal probing
01:59 PM methods_: cause i'm over that
01:59 PM methods_: it's getting old
02:00 PM gloops: a day of intensive probe testing at madame kalishnikovs probing suite
02:00 PM methods_: heheh
02:01 PM fragalot: and it's not going to be anal probing either
02:01 PM fragalot: enjoy.
02:02 PM gloops: the reason the ak-47 is so popular is that it CAN work, and its also very primitive
02:02 PM gloops: and cheap
02:02 PM fragalot: it's reliable, and it's actually pretty accurate, contrary to popular belief
02:02 PM gloops: anyone with basic bicycle maintenance skills can service an ak-47
02:05 PM gloops: the soviets learned that producing many tanks trumps producing fewer excellent tanks, and therefore applied that principle to absolutely everything
02:06 PM gloops: a tiger tank takes out 50 of out tanks before we get it, therefore we will win if we produce at a ratio of 51-1
02:07 PM fragalot: they were not the only ones to realize that when you're at war, making sure everyone can be equipped with a fast and easy to produce, yet reliable weapon is critical
02:07 PM fragalot: the MP40 is another example
02:07 PM fragalot: simple stamped sheet metal, and off you go
02:08 PM gloops: the russians never won that much though
02:10 PM CaptHindsight: is this like drunken history?
02:10 PM gloops: what did the russians ever win?
02:11 PM SpeedEvil: yugoslavia?
02:11 PM CaptHindsight: hockey
02:11 PM gloops: on steds
02:12 PM fragalot: gloops: the american elections?
02:13 PM methods_: hahah
02:13 PM methods_: bazinga
02:14 PM gloops: no..no..i dont think so
02:17 PM gloops: Title: [Toronto, Canada] Severely obese employee has been causing issues at my business. She told us it was medical, just found out she's a feeder. Help? : legaladvice (at www.reddit.com)
02:18 PM gloops: there were never any serial killers in the USSR - apart from one
02:19 PM gloops: Citizen X
02:19 PM Rab: A feeder?
02:20 PM phipli: Stalin?
02:20 PM gloops: yes, i think this is a term applied to some kind of sexual paraphillia where the male feeds the female to grotesque proportions Rab
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: it's like a game show without any structure
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: information you weren't looking for
02:20 PM gregcnc_: I'll pick door #3
02:21 PM gloops: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112681/ (citizen x movie)
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: random statements that would appear odd even on twitter
02:21 PM Rab: gloops, sounds like body/kink shaming.
02:22 PM gloops: the soviets were acutely embarrassed by this crime, previously they had proudly boasted that under socialism depraved crime and serial murderers didnt exist
02:22 PM fragalot: nobody had the energy left to do it :P
02:23 PM fragalot: a good honest day's of hard labor will set any man straight
02:23 PM gregcnc_: or the fear of dead if you don't comply
02:23 PM gloops: that and the threat of lingering death in siberia maybe
02:24 PM gloops: the russians know that there is plenty worse than death
02:25 PM fragalot: there's a blackbird going absolutely bonkers on my window sill
02:25 PM fragalot: shouting like an absolute mad man
02:25 PM gloops: omen
02:25 PM fragalot: he's been there all week
02:25 PM fragalot: the little bastard is up to no good I say
02:26 PM JT-Shop: fucking wood rat's chewed my wiring harness in the truck...
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: soy based insulation?
02:27 PM gregcnc_: they got my van last year
02:28 PM JT-Shop: I hope they get copper poison from eating the wire... they also stripped all the insulation out
02:28 PM gloops: this could be your conscience speaking fragalot
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: lots of stock SS shapes https://www.stainless-structurals.com/product-category/stainless-steel-channels/
02:29 PM gloops: but usually birds in the house or trying to get in = DEATH
02:30 PM Rab: I had a rat living inside my very expensive Samsung oven for two weeks. Cleaned up that nightmare last weekend. It tore down a bunch of insulation to make a nest inside the side wall.
02:31 PM Rab: Bought ceramic kiln wool to patch the hole so there wouldn't be a cold spot, hit everything with enzymatic cleaner and disinfectant. Then self-cleaning cycle for four hours. It still smells a little ratty, but it's usable.
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: cooked his goose
02:32 PM Rab: Absolutely disgusting. And impressive how much trouble and damage a tiny beast like that can cause.
02:32 PM fragalot: https://youtu.be/lErglkJrO7c?t=154
02:32 PM gloops: rats are pretty good at shaking us out of our over comfortable techno-supported bubble
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: this a oven for cooking or baking parts?
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: parts vs food items?
02:33 PM Rab: Oven for cooking food items.
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: awful
02:33 PM fragalot: gloops: it's not trying to get in, it seems to be screaming at something off in the distance
02:33 PM fragalot: probably frustrated it didn't get laid
02:34 PM CaptHindsight: my bubble is entirely low tech
02:34 PM gloops: rats are real, we hate them for it, but it is reminder of what the world was like for us - doing what you need to do to survive
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: annoying little creatures that just pop up for no reason
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: nothing to add
02:35 PM Rab: Rats and cockroaches will definitely still be here after the last human is gone.
02:36 PM gloops: one rat dies - its family eats it
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: wonder how well rats digestion converts plastic pellets to powders
02:36 PM fragalot: lol
02:37 PM fragalot: it typically turns it back to pellets
02:37 PM fragalot: non-stop
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: aluminum wire laser printing
02:38 PM gloops: breaking - https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/mars-nasa-announcement-latest-organic-matter-red-planet-a8388591.html
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.lightmetalage.com/news/industry-news/3d-printing/article-additive-manufacturing-of-aluminum-alloys/
02:41 PM gregcnc_: THAT LOOKS LIKE FUN
02:41 PM gregcnc_: ooops
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.relativityspace.com/
02:42 PM JT-Shop: and the truck has a pretty fast leak in one tire
02:42 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: have you ever looked at the ones from matsuura?
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: gotta go, bbl
02:44 PM gloops: JT-Shop - try foam?
02:48 PM gloops: post leak foam is ok short term, but the latex tyre sealing stuff you put in at the time the tyre is fitted is a lot better
02:49 PM fragalot: really annoying to deal with that stuff when replacing the tire
02:49 PM gloops: yes, for the person changing the tyre
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: http://www.lumex-matsuura.com/english/
02:49 PM fragalot: and in terms of that leak foam, if it's small enough to be fixed by that foam,.. just pop in a proper plug
02:50 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: yeah, those
02:50 PM fragalot: they support AISi10Mg
02:50 PM phipli: Fancy dress party to go to this weekend
02:51 PM phipli: so I made an RGB top hat
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: the system at https://www.relativityspace.com/ said it can print the large fuel tank in 7 hours
02:52 PM CaptHindsight: they were on Vice last week
02:52 PM gloops: phipli the best costumes are always home made
02:52 PM CaptHindsight: Vice Season 06 Episode 08
02:53 PM phipli: gloops, I forgot it was this week sadly
02:53 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: that's quite impressive, how do you guys in the USA deal with the whole legal aspect of aerospace parts when 3D printing? (material and process validation, etc)
02:53 PM phipli: so a very brightly lit MCU controlled hat (8 addressable LEDs) is about my limit :)
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: it's whatever the agency wants
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: at the time
02:55 PM fragalot: they've still having difficulties with that here in EU last time I was on one of the 3D printing industrial council board type things (basically a group of companies come together & discuss the 3D printing world)
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: been working on FDA things lately
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: not NASA
02:56 PM fragalot: biggest party here is aerospace
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.relativityspace.com/aeon
02:57 PM fragalot: food compliance is a matter of picking the right materials, and hygienic design is making sure to polish it up properly
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: https://vimeo.com/246498818
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, lots of polishing of SS for bio-applications
02:58 PM gloops: i cant really imagine a 'Belgium First' movement, does this kind of thing exist fragalot?
02:58 PM fragalot: sure
02:58 PM fragalot: nobody cares.
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: first in ales
02:59 PM gloops: whats it called?
02:59 PM fragalot: vlaams belang would be a good contender
03:00 PM gloops: interesting
03:05 PM XXCoder: can facebook see the future?
03:05 PM XXCoder: its been adversing to me a whole lot about house rentals
03:05 PM fragalot: in a way
03:05 PM XXCoder: am... am I about to be fired?
03:05 PM SpeedEvil: XXCoder: Today I learned that I'm a scientist.
03:05 PM fragalot: it can detects trends about you before you even realize yourself
03:05 PM SpeedEvil: As I am now getting ads from predatory journals.
03:06 PM fragalot: a dutch shop, albert hein, got into trouble because they were sending pregnancy related things to a woman before she even realized she was pregnant herself
03:06 PM XXCoder: fragalot: thing is that I and my brother own a house.
03:06 PM XXCoder: so, no need to rent a place.
03:06 PM XXCoder: so, rental means something very serious would have to happen./
03:07 PM fragalot: I've actively done what I can to opt out of targeted ads where possible, if blocking is not an option
03:07 PM fragalot: so I get loads of ads for "real human hair" from trade india
03:07 PM XXCoder: lol
03:07 PM fragalot: :D
03:07 PM fragalot: it's like the only ad I get
03:07 PM SpeedEvil: I do wish it was possible to just pay for my own ads.
03:07 PM XXCoder: SpeedEvil: yeech those journals
03:07 PM fragalot: apart from a deadpool one a while back
03:11 PM Spirit532 is now known as Guest53364
03:11 PM Spirit532__ is now known as Spirit532
03:32 PM devlap: alright going to try changing my z-steps and doing some more pcb runs
03:42 PM miss0r: devlap: Isolation milling?
03:43 PM devlap: miss0r, yea
03:43 PM miss0r: what machine are you using? and what cam?
03:44 PM devlap: https://www.yogile.com/u6cshi2ofyb/41m/share/?vsc=OTlmMWE2Y 6040Z flatcam
03:44 PM miss0r: what size am I looking at ?
03:45 PM devlap: one square is about 10mm. .5mm pad to pad, .2 pads .3mm gap
03:45 PM devlap: magnification is 10x i think
03:45 PM devlap: yea thats not 20x
03:45 PM miss0r: Might I recommend you some tooling for that ?
03:46 PM devlap: Thats with a 10*, I am trying a new bit soon
03:46 PM devlap: What do you recommend?
03:47 PM devlap: I'm trying a .1mm endmill from harvey tool
03:47 PM devlap: don't have it yet
03:48 PM miss0r: https://www.precisebits.com/products/carbidebits/scoreengrave.asp?product_id=328
03:48 PM miss0r: That one
03:48 PM miss0r: its a 60 degree 0.0050" tip with 1/8" shank
03:48 PM miss0r: coated carbide. VERY excellent when it comes to PCB
03:48 PM devlap: I'm not sure how much I like v bits for this fine of work.
03:49 PM devlap: So in that picture, I altered only the z depth for the three square jobs.
03:49 PM devlap: one is level, Z0 = Z0, the one where it polishes is at 0.005 and the one where its half polish, half wrecked is 0.0025
03:50 PM miss0r: Getting there :]
03:50 PM miss0r: I just like the fact that a shart v-bit leaves almost no burs on the finished pcb
03:50 PM miss0r: atleast that is what happens with the thinktinker bits there
03:51 PM devlap: yea, have you ever tried this close of seperation and pad widths?
03:52 PM CaptHindsight: are you making a PCB or a solder stencil?
03:52 PM devlap: I have .2mm of copper with .3mm cut inbetween them with the step resolution I have, I have only two steps, on top of the copper, in the copper, and then out on the other side.
03:52 PM devlap: I'm just trying LQFP on FR1 pcb.
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: single layer?
03:53 PM devlap: I'd like to do dual layer, but I'm just trying single for now.
03:53 PM devlap: I think I can figure out an alignment jig if I can get the resolution on one layer down.
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: have you seen any successful PCB milled at this trace and space? pics if you have please
03:55 PM devlap: I've seen TQFP, and heard of people achieving right about the mil spacing im at.
03:55 PM devlap: I haven't seen any LQFP specifically.
03:56 PM devlap: But I heard talk of people getting it. Let me see if I can find any pics.
03:56 PM devlap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAbJh2mEFDM
03:56 PM devlap: He does an STM32 chip on lqfp-48
03:56 PM devlap: seems to be using a micro endmill.
03:56 PM miss0r: devlap: and another thought: I ended up only using PCB blanks from bundgaard, as they were VERY acurate when it came to overall thickness. That made a world of difference with isolation milling
03:57 PM devlap: FR4?
03:57 PM miss0r: if I recall correctly, yes
03:58 PM devlap: I have some decent FR4, been only trying to mill FR1 because of fiberglass I guess.
03:58 PM devlap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeY05kQIcjo shapeoko doing TQFP
03:58 PM miss0r: You can get a bunch of different stuff from there. I just found that I did not have issues with thickness when getting stuff from them
03:59 PM devlap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDkmtq26Hi0 TQFP 64, .5mm spacing
03:59 PM CaptHindsight: FR4 is just the fire rated version of G10
03:59 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.infineon.com/export/sites/default/en/product/packages/_images/09018a9080080c6b.gif_896063799.gif
03:59 PM miss0r: devlap: he is using a straight flute v-bit.. I would not recommend that
03:59 PM Rab: Dust extraction is a must with FR4. But FR1 will still generate copper dust and, I believe, formaldehyde resin.
04:00 PM devlap: miss0r, which one
04:00 PM miss0r: the shapeoko
04:00 PM miss0r: I never got acceptable results with that. That is why I went for the other bits
04:00 PM devlap: yea the shapeoko is doing .4mm traces im not sure how far apart, but that TQFP he is doing is probably easier than mine.
04:01 PM devlap: its twice as thick pads.
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: which spindle?
04:01 PM devlap: 24000 rpm water cooled
04:02 PM miss0r: Hehe. I ran most of mine on a RolandDG CAMM-3 PNC-3100 with a 8000rpm spindle
04:02 PM miss0r: it takes a little longer at that speed
04:02 PM devlap: I think I ran the spindle at 20,000 for the shots in the albu,
04:02 PM devlap: yea hes doing 0.8mm pitch on the shapeoko
04:03 PM devlap: 30*v .1mm
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: .29mm pad and .21mm space
04:05 PM devlap: CaptHindsight, all TQFP/LQFP vary it depends on the specific ic.
04:05 PM devlap: Mine is probably on the smaller side.
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: and whatever you want for trace/space
04:06 PM devlap: miss0r, what resolution you doing on the pnc3100?
04:06 PM CaptHindsight: good luck
04:06 PM CaptHindsight: just wondering
04:06 PM miss0r: devlap: 0.0025 IIRC
04:06 PM miss0r: mm
04:06 PM devlap: CaptHindsight, yea I haven't been trying very long, but people are achieving essentially up to the size im doing.
04:07 PM devlap: so 1mil, and what kind of isolation could you achieve when tuning it in miss0r
04:08 PM miss0r: devlap: Excellent question. I've always worn belt and suspenders when it came to that sort of stuff
04:08 PM miss0r: Usualy I ran 0.25mm 'leads' with a 0.3mm gap inbetween
04:09 PM devlap: yea thats what im trying essentially. hmm.
04:09 PM devlap: belt and suspenders I dont understand haha.
04:09 PM miss0r: those are some pretty safe numbers when it comes to isolation milling :]
04:09 PM miss0r: atleast with the right bits ;)
04:09 PM devlap: Yea, I wonder what the 0.004" endmill will do.
04:10 PM devlap: As you can see, I'm either polishing the copper, or ripping up the copper
04:10 PM miss0r: well. In my experience flat endmills do a poor job at isolation milling. They tend to make alot of burs
04:10 PM devlap: The polished square, it seems like its just about where I want it to be, but its not breaking through
04:10 PM miss0r: yeah, what I am talking about with flat endmills. The same goes for straight flute v-bits
04:11 PM miss0r: What are you using to hold down the plate with?
04:11 PM devlap: corner clamps.
04:11 PM miss0r: yeah....
04:11 PM devlap: might be bending the pcb.
04:11 PM miss0r: indeed
04:11 PM miss0r: get some decent double sided tape for the testing fase here
04:11 PM devlap: I used auto leveling at 1mm prob grid across the job.
04:12 PM miss0r: then go build a small vacuum table
04:12 PM devlap: I have some already in the mail.
04:12 PM miss0r: well, that doesn't realy matter. (the auto probing thing) that does not put pressure on the pcb like the endmill will
04:13 PM devlap: well, my tests before leveling, and after, they are far far more consitent.
04:13 PM miss0r: so what happens is: either the endmill eats into the material, pulling it towards the spindle & eating even more than it should, or the board deflects to a degree that end endmill only rubs the surface.
04:13 PM SpeedEvil: Very sharp tools would help.
04:13 PM devlap: But thats kind of what im seeing too, I can't finda good depth, either its up to far, or pushed away
04:13 PM SpeedEvil: But - well - glass fibre.
04:13 PM miss0r: When it comes to this stuff, you need it rather flat and stable
04:13 PM miss0r: SpeedEvil: Nothing lasts forever ;)
04:14 PM miss0r: devlap: basically, if I were you; I'd wait for the touble sided tape before drawing any conclutions. none of what you learn with that clamping technique will do you any good in the future
04:14 PM miss0r: other than, perhaps, that corner clamping a PCB is a bad idea
04:15 PM devlap: I'll try the bits you mentioned.
04:16 PM miss0r: You should. I bought 10 of them for 3 years ago... I don't do any real PCB production, but I still have 6 left. and two of the ones that are gone were because I forgot something in the code...
04:16 PM miss0r: only two of them realy got worn out
04:17 PM miss0r: hold on. let me make sure its the right name/number.
04:17 PM miss0r: The bits I have are called: EM2E8-0625-60VC
04:17 PM devlap: yea thats it
04:17 PM miss0r: great
04:18 PM devlap: Why did you mill boards with all the alternatives out there?
04:18 PM miss0r: When I want something, I want it now :)
04:19 PM miss0r: that, and doing proto-typing with boards like that, its a pain to go through 5 or 6 revisions, if you have to wait 2-3 days for each
04:19 PM devlap: Same thing I decided.
04:19 PM devlap: I'll ship em out when I get the design closer.
04:20 PM miss0r: Indeed. I still have a few of the PCBs i've made running on a daily basis. but that is only because I epoxyed'em in
04:20 PM devlap: You still have the home etch methods, toner transfer, laser exposure, UV and etch.
04:20 PM miss0r: yeah, I started there...
04:21 PM miss0r: well, i started with a special pen, and drew the layout, and etched it :D
04:21 PM miss0r: but that was a long time ago
04:21 PM devlap: yea... HandCAD
04:21 PM miss0r: yeah.. a royal pain
04:22 PM devlap: http://fab.cba.mit.edu/classes/S62.12/people/moritz.kassner/bga_pcb.html he does bga here.
04:23 PM devlap: bantam doesn't even recommend BGA on their pcb machine. To be fair they dont recommend LQFP either.
04:23 PM miss0r: I use cobberCAM
04:24 PM devlap: ever try flatcam?
04:24 PM miss0r: I have not
04:24 PM miss0r: I just found something that works, so I stuck to it
04:24 PM devlap: Sure.
04:31 PM miss0r: flatcam does look interresting
04:32 PM devlap: I talked to a bunch of people milling on youtube, the people who werent vectorizing and using normal art cam softwares, used flatcam
04:32 PM devlap: I haven't heard of coppercam before.
04:32 PM devlap: I'll check it out for sure.
04:46 PM miss0r: devlap: I'm just shuffeling to get my EDM hole burner done soon
04:46 PM miss0r: Its been too long since I decided the proto-type was a success.. I'm still not done with the real thing
04:47 PM Deejay: gn8
04:47 PM devlap: what do you use it for?
04:47 PM miss0r: goodnight, Deejay
04:48 PM miss0r: devlap: Nothing at the moment. But I will be using it to make holes in stuff otherwise impossible for me
04:48 PM miss0r: like carbide
04:53 PM miss0r: devlap: What the unit looks like now: https://imgur.com/a/kwmfVgf
04:53 PM miss0r: working on completing the control unit
04:53 PM devlap: Ohh I saw this.
04:53 PM devlap: I thought it was like a drill press.
04:53 PM devlap: hahaha cool.
04:55 PM miss0r: yeah, I get that alot :D
04:56 PM miss0r: But that is sorta' what it is
05:00 PM miss0r: I'll call it a night. Have a good one
05:02 PM devlap: see ya!
06:33 PM CaptHindsight: hmm what if you were to put a 405nm laser in place of the spindle and then use $25/L photomask on the areas with copper and then etch?
06:33 PM SpeedEvil: CaptHindsight: that's a tiny laser.
06:33 PM SpeedEvil: More seriously, it would probably be fine.
06:34 PM CaptHindsight: just don't forget where you put it :)
06:34 PM SpeedEvil: And probably lots less hastle
06:35 PM CaptHindsight: I forget do they sell pre-sentisized PCB's with a positive or negative masks? or are both readily available?
06:37 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrdheP3Dwyc - related
06:37 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrdheP3Dwyc
06:37 PM SpeedEvil: err
06:37 PM SpeedEvil: Applying and exposing dry film photoresist and building a PCB.
06:37 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30cm-x-1m-Photosensitive-Dry-Film-For-PCB-Circuit-Production-Photoresist-Sheets/282034548000 cheap now
06:38 PM SpeedEvil: Also for other machining.
06:38 PM SpeedEvil: At $10/m^2, that is ridiculously cheap method of intricately patterning metal.
06:39 PM CaptHindsight: is copper sulfate available in the EU? for hobby
06:40 PM CaptHindsight: or copper chloride?
06:41 PM CaptHindsight: the sheets are cheap
06:45 PM SpeedEvil: $10/2kg on ebay for sulfate
06:46 PM SpeedEvil: Oddly, chloride is rarer
06:52 PM CaptHindsight: buying chems is always weird
07:08 PM ziper: how are you supposed to read the vernier scale on a mic
07:09 PM ziper: its obviously on a flat surface but I don't get it with the curve
07:09 PM ziper: do you look from one point or are you supposed to look radially at each number?
07:10 PM CaptHindsight: ziper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_jygJkJujE
07:12 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8vMFFYNIfo
07:16 PM ziper: the second one doesnt even have a vernier scale and while the first one doesn't explicitly state such it does imply that you are supposed to look at it radially
07:17 PM ziper: but that doesnt help me actually do it when rolling it just a little can cause enough parallax error for the vernier to not line up properly
07:18 PM CaptHindsight: http://navyaviation.tpub.com/14310/css/Reading-The-Vernier-Scale-On-A-Micrometer-68.htm
07:18 PM roycroft: look from directly above the lines you think line up
07:18 PM roycroft: roll the micrometer or roll your head
07:18 PM roycroft: whatever works for you
07:19 PM roycroft: parallax is no different on a flat surface than on a curved surface
07:19 PM roycroft: a flat surface is just a curve with infinite diameter
07:20 PM ziper: that is true, but a typical vernier scale on say, a pair of calipers, has both marks in the same plane
07:21 PM roycroft: being not coplaner does not matter as long as both curves share the same center point
07:21 PM roycroft: which they do on a micrometer vernier
07:24 PM CaptHindsight: or is a curve with an infinite diameter just a flat surface?
07:24 PM CaptHindsight: and who will fund my research?
07:24 PM roycroft: the planes tangent to the vernier lines are parallel to each other if the cylinders on which the lines are scribed share the same center point, so if you are looking at one line perpendicular to its tangent plane then you will be looking at the other line perpendicular to its tangent plane as well, and there will be no parallax error
07:25 PM roycroft: supposedly straight lines curve as they reach the outer limits of the universe, so i should expect the former to be true than the latter
07:25 PM CaptHindsight: curved space time
07:26 PM roycroft: supposedly parallel lines cross as the outer limits are approached
07:26 PM CaptHindsight: so they are both wrong or both correct?
07:26 PM roycroft: yes
07:26 PM roycroft: :)
07:26 PM CaptHindsight: got it trouble for that argument in 10th grade geometry (euclidean)
07:27 PM devlap: Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper - the Outer Limits
07:27 PM CaptHindsight: optimist vs pessimist
07:28 PM CaptHindsight: that is we all just can't get along
07:29 PM devlap: F$!% didn't check shipping on this plexiglass order.
07:29 PM CaptHindsight: why we
07:29 PM CaptHindsight: devlap: how much did you order?
07:29 PM devlap: 55$ in shipping.
07:30 PM devlap: Two sheets. 1/8th inch.
07:30 PM CaptHindsight: 48 x 48" ?
07:31 PM devlap: 4x8
07:31 PM CaptHindsight: that not bad then
07:31 PM devlap: 48 long is a half sheet.
07:31 PM devlap: They are half mile down the road.
07:31 PM CaptHindsight: unless it from right down the street
07:31 PM CaptHindsight: hah
07:32 PM CaptHindsight: I usually pick up if it's 30 minutes or less away
07:33 PM CaptHindsight: often 1 hour
07:33 PM devlap: Its cheaper to have it shipped then to have me get in the car load it pay leave unload.
07:34 PM devlap: But I woulda called them to get the shipping down anyways heh.
07:34 PM devlap: building an enclosure for the mill
07:35 PM devlap: no more wearing my shirt over my mouth when running jobs.
07:35 PM CaptHindsight: I'd expect free drop off for being that close
07:35 PM CaptHindsight: in the olden days
07:35 PM roycroft: a piece of clear plastic attached to a stick would have solved that problem for you ages ago, devlap :)
07:36 PM devlap: hows that roycroft
07:36 PM roycroft: attach plastic to stick
07:36 PM roycroft: attach stick to mill
07:36 PM roycroft: keep head on opposite side of plastic than the mill head
07:36 PM roycroft: bob's your uncle
07:36 PM CaptHindsight: knew i was doing it wrong
07:37 PM devlap: I think it floats or something. idk. seems legit.
07:37 PM devlap: Alright time to go pick up some cod liver. peace out.
07:37 PM CaptHindsight: enjoy
08:47 PM hazzy-lab: about a week ago my neighbor ordered a 10ft .25 fiberglass rod from McMaster. The rod cost $5.80. It came via southeaster freight with lift gate. She's been too scared to check what the "applicable shipping" was :D
08:47 PM gregcnc_: I hope it needed to be that long
08:47 PM hazzy-lab: Worst part is, she needed two 5ft rods, but it was cheaper to get the 10ft rod, and she did not think about shipping xD
08:48 PM Tom_L: there are reasons...
08:48 PM gregcnc_: lol
08:50 PM hazzy-lab: I told her that's what happens when you got too used to Amazon prime free shipping, she is elderly so she gets even her groceries on prime
08:51 PM MarcelineVQ: "<devlap> They are half mile down the road." :(
08:51 PM Rab: She's still pretty hip if she's ordering from McMaster.
08:53 PM Tom_L: seems most BLDCs top out around 3-4k rpm
08:54 PM Tom_L: wonder if there's a physical reason
08:54 PM gregcnc_: no
08:54 PM hazzy-lab: Rab: She's crazy, she came over and made these on my lathe this afternoon: https://i.imgur.com/LxOmSFx.png
08:55 PM Rab: Probably depends on size. I use a model aircraft motor on my spindle that runs 7K @ 24V.
08:55 PM gregcnc_: just depends what the spec is
08:55 PM Rab: And that has a relatively low KV rating, i.e., there are much faster ones.
08:55 PM Tom_L: but you can't turn a .500 cutter with it either
08:55 PM Tom_L: or you'd burn it up
08:56 PM gregcnc_: that just means it's too small
08:56 PM Rab: Indeed not, the spindle uses ER11. ;)
08:56 PM Rab: But I mill aluminum with a .25 cutter (and very light DoC).
08:56 PM Tom_L: i'm kinda stuck between keeping my spindle and finding a larger motor or getting a spindle
08:57 PM gregcnc_: I ran a 1/2" at 12kRPM in my BLDC spindle 46A on the meter
08:57 PM Tom_L: i cut .25" cutter .25" depth but the motor gets hot
08:57 PM Tom_L: i think the mill could do alot more
08:58 PM Rab: I have a much beefier BLDC from an electric chainsaw (I think). I bought a VESC and 2x24V PSUs to power it, just haven't had time to set it up.
08:58 PM gregcnc_: mine runs from the a 2.5kW bench supply
08:58 PM Tom_L: i'd like to find something i can just power from mains
08:59 PM Tom_L: let the control handle the conversion
08:59 PM gregcnc_: sure
08:59 PM gregcnc_: the motor in my Emco is a 10kRPM induction motor
08:59 PM gregcnc_: they gear it down for a 5kRPM
08:59 PM Tom_L: how big is it?
08:59 PM gregcnc_: belt
08:59 PM gregcnc_: 600W
09:00 PM gregcnc_: or 700
09:00 PM Tom_L: the sherline is only about .6 hp
09:01 PM Tom_L: somebody has a 700w replacement BLDC for it but they want way too much for it
09:01 PM gregcnc_: https://www.ebay.com/itm/182978630453
09:01 PM Rab: That's an unfortunate aspect of hobby BLDCs, they're low voltage so you need a huge DC power supply to develop significant power.
09:02 PM gregcnc_: you could always rewind
09:03 PM Rab: The PSUs I got are 1200W HP server power supplies. I'm hoping I can deliver 24V@100A, may have to power them from a 220VAC circuit.
09:03 PM Rab: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/spindle/index.html
09:03 PM gregcnc_: how will you use that much power in ER11?
09:03 PM Tom_L: who?
09:03 PM Rab: I will build a new spindle with ER16, using the chainsaw motor.
09:04 PM gregcnc_: how much torque would that be?
09:05 PM Rab: No idea, but I suspect the bigger motor will have a much lower speed at 24V so I'll need to trade torque for RPMs with a high pulley ratio.
09:06 PM Rab: The current motor has 1:2 pulleys so it tops out at 14K RPM.
09:07 PM gregcnc_: what size cutters do you use? Nomal cuts in my ER16 spindle top out at maybe 200W.
09:07 PM Rab: Typically 1/8" 2-flute cutters in polycarbonate.
09:07 PM gregcnc_: dozens of W
09:08 PM Tom_L: i've been using 1/8" in mine just to keep the motor from getting to hot
09:08 PM Rab: 1/4" 2-flute when I want to remove material rather than make cuts.
09:09 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Vise_parts/table_slot3.jpg
09:09 PM Tecan: https://cdn.thingiverse.com/renders/a9/4c/14/5e/94/92e304862fe4c34543cc5de3d6ff678a_preview_featured.jpg started a new project
09:09 PM Tom_L: just extending that slot with a .25" cutter made the motor too hot to touch
09:10 PM Rab: Do you have a fan on the motor?
09:10 PM Tom_L: no
09:10 PM gregcnc_: if you like to play ebay roulette https://www.ebay.com/itm/352373716690
09:10 PM Tom_L: stock sherline motor
09:11 PM Tom_L: i don't know enough about servos to macth it with an amp
09:11 PM Tom_L: if i did that i'd get one paired up already
09:12 PM Rab: I can't find any specs...it'd be nice to know what kind of encoder it has.
09:12 PM gregcnc_: yeah you have to do your homework before jumping on stuff like that
09:13 PM Tom_L: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AC-Servo-Drive-Motor-750W-2-39NM-220V-3000R-Min-NEMA32-Material-Conveying-New-1/32721780790.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000014.1.4c117f35KPo2Ss&scm=1007.13338.98644.000000000000000&scm_id=1007.13338.98644.000000000000000&scm-url=1007.13338.98644.000000000000000&pvid=db21c0ce-c611-42b7-97e8-a229b13349d7&_t=pvid:db21c0ce-c611-42b7-97e8-a229b13349d7,scm-url:1007.13338.98644.000000000000000
09:13 PM Tom_L: something like that might work
09:13 PM Tom_L: i'd gear it up
09:15 PM Tom_L: one of those i looked at had analog input
09:15 PM Tom_L: maybe not that one
09:17 PM Tom_L: i wonder how well those work under continuous use
09:19 PM gregcnc_: those are generally rated for continuous use, with some requirement about what they are mounted to, like a 10" square plate
09:20 PM Tom_L: for heat disapation?
09:20 PM gregcnc_: yes, find the documentation
09:20 PM gregcnc_: they will be clear
09:23 PM Tom_L: should i keep looking for analog control or is modbus easy to interface to lcnc?
09:23 PM gregcnc_: that i don't know
09:30 PM Tom_L: i'll likely keep what i've got for a while anyway
09:30 PM Tom_L: i don't use it an awful lot
09:31 PM Tom_L: it's mostly one of those "see if i can do it" things
09:41 PM jdh: I have faith.
09:51 PM enleth: eh, fuck machine spare part suppliers, everyone lists a "bridgeport backgear bearing" but no one provides manufacturer designation
09:52 PM enleth: obviously if they did, no one in their right mind would buy it from them fro $30 when the same bearing can be purchased for $5 anywhere else
10:01 PM enleth: and the damn bearing seems to be something like 1.44" ID, 2.5" OD
10:02 PM enleth: as in, actually imperial
10:03 PM enleth: the OD is slightly bigger than 62mm, a 6007 (35x62x14) bearing pretty much falls into the sleeve those bearings sit in
10:07 PM enleth: and the OD is slightly bigger too
10:07 PM enleth: *ID
10:10 PM enleth: who in their right mind puts imperial bearings in a machine that otherwise uses ISO standard bearings?
10:11 PM Tom_L: the same ones that mix metric and inch on automobiles
11:03 PM hazzy-lab: enleth: It's a genuine BP? Call H&W, they are happy to read the part numbers off the box of any standard replacement parts they have so you can find an equivalent from your local bearing house. A BP has a lot of funky bearings though ...
11:03 PM hazzy-lab: http://www.machinerypartsdepot.com/
11:05 PM hazzy-lab: Tom_L: The BP has evolved over almost 100 years, thats why the base is mostly funky imperial bearings and the heads are mostly ISO, the heads are much new designs!
11:22 PM enleth: hazzy-lab: genuine 80s CNC Bridgeport, only superficially similar to a regular manual BP
11:22 PM hazzy-lab: BOSS?
11:23 PM enleth: almost - Series I MDI, a hybrid manual/one-axis-at-a-time-CNC rigid ram design
11:24 PM enleth: I think BOSS models usually had the classic 2J2 head modified for a motorized Z axis
11:25 PM hazzy-lab: Nice! It has the fixes ram
11:25 PM enleth: mine has a hollow ballscrew quill extension encasing the spinde
11:25 PM hazzy-lab: Yes, we have a 83 boss 10, basically a beefed up 2j2 head and dovetail ram
11:26 PM hazzy-lab: The quill is actually the ball screw? The Boss 10 has that too
11:27 PM enleth: they managed to do that in the 2J2 head casting? interesting
11:28 PM hazzy-lab: Yes, lol but is it just looks like the standard 2j2 head, the casting are very different and heaver
11:28 PM hazzy-lab: https://i.imgur.com/xF40GSK.jpg
11:29 PM hazzy-lab: That "extension" on the head has the rotating ball nut in it
11:29 PM enleth: OK, so it is a similar mechanical design to mine
11:30 PM enleth: same thing with the extension spacer
11:30 PM enleth: and the motor pointed downwards
11:31 PM enleth: the rigid ram actually has a recess on top to accomodate the motor
11:31 PM hazzy-lab: Oh, just looking at pics, they are more similar than I though, the extension is just square instead of round
11:31 PM enleth: and shorter
11:31 PM enleth: thanks to that recess
11:32 PM enleth: I actually reassembled that very part of my mill today
11:32 PM hazzy-lab: right, and there does not have to be clearance for the head to nod up
11:32 PM enleth: but it makes motor replacement a huge PITA
11:33 PM enleth: it's locked in there between the varispeed body and the ram
11:33 PM hazzy-lab: Oh, yeah ... I guess you have to remove the entire head
11:33 PM enleth: or "just" the top part
11:33 PM enleth: but that's where the Z servo is mounted to
11:33 PM hazzy-lab: Oh, thats right
11:34 PM enleth: so you have to take the Z drivetrain apart first
11:34 PM hazzy-lab: That is pretty easy, but still it takes time
11:34 PM enleth: and that extension casting is a *very* thick piece of cast iron
11:34 PM hazzy-lab: Is yours stepper or servo?
11:34 PM enleth: DC servos
11:35 PM hazzy-lab: Nice, same here
11:35 PM enleth: SEM servos?
11:35 PM hazzy-lab: Just put new Advanced motion control drives on it
11:35 PM hazzy-lab: SEM? I don't know
11:36 PM enleth: I was just about to say that there are cheap AMC drives available that work nicely with the SEM servos Bridgeport typically used
11:37 PM hazzy-lab: They drives work well, but it was a bitch getting them tuned, and its still not perfect
11:37 PM enleth: that mill originally had just a single servo drive, switched to one motor at a time using contactors, so I had to retrofit it for any real CNC capabilities
11:37 PM hazzy-lab: Haha, that is hilarious, but I guess it would work!
11:38 PM hazzy-lab: What there always feedback from the encoders?
11:38 PM hazzy-lab: was*
11:38 PM enleth: yes
11:38 PM enleth: Heidenhain control, Heidenhain encoders
11:38 PM enleth: it was just a simpler, cheaper version of Series I CNC
11:39 PM hazzy-lab: our machine could do ridged tapping with the original control, and also 3 axis interpolated motion, i was very impressed
11:39 PM enleth: mechanically mostly identical, just one servo drive instead of three and a control configured to not attempt multiaxis moves
11:39 PM hazzy-lab: it is an 83
11:40 PM enleth: oh, and it's factory fitted with handwheels
11:40 PM enleth: as in, actual mechanical handwheels
11:40 PM hazzy-lab: That is very nice! And you have encoder feedback so you know where you are!
11:40 PM enleth: each handwheel has a clutch integrated with a ballscrew brake
11:40 PM hazzy-lab: manual CNC xD
11:41 PM enleth: so for CNC operation, the handwheels are disengaged mechanically and all ballscrew brakes open
11:41 PM enleth: for manual, you can engage each handwheel individually, which opens the respective brake
11:41 PM enleth: or disengage to close the brake and lock the ballscrew in place
11:42 PM enleth: this is a necessity for manual work on a ballscrew machine
11:42 PM enleth: otherwise it would backfeed all over the place
11:42 PM hazzy-lab: That sounds very nice actually, for certain kinds of work at least. Kinda like a trak
11:42 PM enleth: it's absolutely perfect as a training machine
11:43 PM enleth: or for quick corrections during prototyping
11:43 PM hazzy-lab: I guess in CNC mode it is basically an automated DRO? You can't do much with only one axis
11:43 PM enleth: well, it was, orignally
11:43 PM enleth: I fitted it with three AMC drives and a Mesa card
11:44 PM hazzy-lab: Are you doing to keep the manual wheels with your conversion?
11:44 PM enleth: of course
11:44 PM hazzy-lab: good
11:44 PM enleth: I have some custom ladder logic to handle the axis brakes and detect engaged handwheels
11:45 PM hazzy-lab: Tomorrow I am going to see if I can put an MPG on the Boss, its a pain using it without one
11:46 PM enleth: well, I'm glad I don't have to
11:46 PM hazzy-lab: Yes!
11:47 PM enleth: on the other hand, using a properly designed ballscrew-based manual machine means that each time I have to use anything with ACME screws, I fudge around with the backlash
11:47 PM enleth: I'm just not used to it
11:47 PM hazzy-lab: Heh, you'll be spoiled
11:48 PM hazzy-lab: Did you notice the BP lathe in the background of the pic? It has hand-wheels with encoders on the saddle and cross slide , it actually works very well, but you lack feedback
11:50 PM hazzy-lab: opps, I guess it was in pieces when I took that pic
11:50 PM enleth: supposedly, there are force feedback MPGs, but I've never had a chance to use one
11:51 PM enleth: anyway, I have to find out what the damn backgear bearings are, preferably before I pull them out of there
11:51 PM hazzy-lab: I guess you could have a electro mag drag break that is it powered in relation to the servo load, that would be neat!
11:51 PM enleth: I'm replacing all head bearings now and those are the last ones I have to order
11:52 PM enleth: yeah, this is pretty much how they work, usually using a stepper motor
11:53 PM hazzy-lab: I hope you can find a source, when I rebuilt my manual BP i had to use mostly NOS bearings, but it's a bit older 1971
11:55 PM hazzy-lab: Seriously, give the folks at H&W a call, they have been very helpful in the past
11:57 PM enleth: I guess I can give it a try