#linuxcnc Logs

May 27 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:36 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Steinel-milling-machine-and-some-tooling/113010158946? just down the road, no use for it though
01:42 AM XXCoder: horz miling interesting
01:47 AM gloops: might go for a lot more
01:47 AM gloops: ive run out of space to just stick stuff i wont use
01:56 AM gloops: looking at the other items from same seller, looks like another small odd job workshop has gone under
01:57 AM fragalot: or retired, judging by the age of the machies
01:57 AM gloops: or just having a clearout anyway
01:57 AM gloops: yeah or died
01:58 AM fragalot: "selling as I'm losing my 3phase industrial unit"
01:58 AM fragalot: due to redevelopment
01:59 AM gloops: must have had it on a cheap contract, if it was a going concern moving wouldnt be much of an issue surely
02:00 AM gloops: there have been some really cheap workshops in the dead industrial areas, not so dead anymore though
02:00 AM fragalot: for all you know this could be a hobbyists' shack though
02:01 AM fragalot: so then "moving it" becomes a question of 'where the hell can I find something affordable'
02:01 AM gloops: people bodging about with cars and stuff, not making much but enjoying themselves and avoiding the dole lol
02:02 AM gloops: could be a hobbyist yeah, not sure where cable stripping comes in as a hobby though
02:02 AM fragalot: guy down the road is a wannabe scrap metal dealer
02:03 AM fragalot: eg. he collects what he can for free & then goes to a proper one to get some cash :P
02:04 AM gloops: loads doing that here fragalot
02:04 AM gloops: copper around £5 a kilo
02:04 AM fragalot: well, that's where that cable stripper comes in :D
02:06 AM gloops: the rent is what puts a stick in the spokes for these under the radar workshops and activities
02:06 AM gloops: its all ok while the overheads are negligible, once you have to start meeting real bills it all goes to cock
02:17 AM CaptHindsight: fragalot: anything exciting?
02:19 AM fragalot: CaptHindsight: nothing to report sir
02:20 AM CaptHindsight: i haven't even put away the winter coats and now I'm melting
02:20 AM fragalot: xD
02:30 AM CaptHindsight: http://ph.parker.com/us/en/gantry-robot-system-7-three-axis-xx-yy-z
02:31 AM CaptHindsight: I used Parker belt driven positioners in the past
02:32 AM CaptHindsight: I wonder if someone makes a linear servo version but ...
02:32 AM CaptHindsight: lower budget, lower precision and lower speed than what they are usually used for
02:32 AM fragalot: igus drylin E gantries?
02:32 AM CaptHindsight: XY monorail
02:33 AM CaptHindsight: would be good enough
02:33 AM CaptHindsight: only moving at few inches per second (few cm/s)
02:34 AM CaptHindsight: could be cable driven
02:35 AM CaptHindsight: only need ~1mm accuracy and repeatability
02:36 AM CaptHindsight: or rack and pinion
02:37 AM fragalot: belting is probably the easiest
02:37 AM gloops: 1mm at 10metre square - very accurate
02:38 AM CaptHindsight: 10m belt
02:39 AM fragalot: CaptHindsight: yeah you can set it up similar to a rack&pinion system and get really good results
02:39 AM * fragalot googles to find an example of what he's thinking of
02:39 AM CaptHindsight: 3-4 m with inkjets
02:39 AM CaptHindsight: I know
02:39 AM CaptHindsight: common
02:39 AM fragalot: k
02:40 AM fragalot: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/56/0f/7a/560f7a39a2551400d772f6e2bcecc678--machine-tools-cnc-machine.jpg <= found it anyway
02:40 AM CaptHindsight: yeah, overkill
02:40 AM fragalot: CaptHindsight: and inkjets require more than ~1mm precision :P
02:40 AM CaptHindsight: <25um is common
02:42 AM CaptHindsight: whats the term for that belt and pulley setup?
02:43 AM CaptHindsight: Machine Design had an article on it in the past few years
02:43 AM fragalot: not sure
02:44 AM Deejay: moin
02:44 AM gloops: servo belt
02:46 AM gloops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdJoVh6DRPA
02:46 AM gloops: 3m/sec
02:46 AM gloops: .005mm
02:46 AM fragalot: CaptHindsight: https://www.designworldonline.com/Alternative-to-Linear-Motors-Built-from-Components/
02:47 AM CaptHindsight: yeah, that is it!
02:48 AM CaptHindsight: ServoBelt
02:48 AM gloops: i was going to make that system for router, but decided would be too time consuming
02:49 AM gloops: when cheapo ballscrews would suffice
02:49 AM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/Cc9alAyO47k?t=59s
02:51 AM fragalot: CaptHindsight: is the biax 7/EL good for general use scraping in machine ways?
02:51 AM fragalot: (I have no idea what model that's equivalent to)
02:51 AM CaptHindsight: I'm going to test one 2m long
02:52 AM CaptHindsight: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f83/109342d1402512460-biax-scrapers-their-uses-biaxblades.jpg
02:53 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz14SuwsTXU
02:54 AM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/lY_vrwbCIn8?t=33s
02:56 AM CaptHindsight: the BIAX seems nice
02:57 AM CaptHindsight: not my idea of a good time or I'd look for one myself
02:57 AM fragalot: the idea isn't to have a good time
02:58 AM fragalot: the idea is to spend less time and getting that tedious shite over with faster :P
02:58 AM CaptHindsight: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/machine-reconditioning-scraping-and-inspection/biax-7el-vs-7elm-326633/
02:58 AM CaptHindsight: some FYI
03:04 AM CaptHindsight: just leave some chisel marks and say you scraped it
03:05 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece-pneumatic-scraper-kit-95826.html
03:05 AM CaptHindsight: now I see why their machines are so inaccurate
03:06 AM CaptHindsight: i don't any other brand for scrapers
03:06 AM CaptHindsight: don't see
03:07 AM gloops: surface grinder
03:08 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.cnczone.com/forums/general-metalwork-discussion/128747-another-home-made-power-scraper.html
03:09 AM CaptHindsight: he eventually reduced the stroke to 1/8" and found it better to control than the initial longer stroke
03:10 AM fragalot: there are basically 2 brands
03:10 AM fragalot: one german one that I forgot that syyl uses, and biax.
03:10 AM fragalot: there is no-one else making them afaik
03:11 AM CaptHindsight: Kratzen-Hoffel?
03:12 AM fragalot: lol, no
03:12 AM fragalot: renz
03:12 AM CaptHindsight: kratzen und schnüffeln
03:13 AM CaptHindsight: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/machine-reconditioning-scraping-and-inspection/what-makes-biax-scraper-so-unique-290595-post2369339/#post2369339
03:14 AM fragalot: I believe what makes them so unique is that nobody else is bothered making such a specialized tool that sells in such low QTY's
03:15 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTu2iwdiCt4
03:16 AM fragalot: that one is only barely scraping off the dye
03:29 AM CaptHindsight: more power
03:30 AM fragalot: Aye
03:31 AM fragalot: meh, paint in the basement hasn't dried yet, and it looks like one of the walls isn't as dry as I thought it was,... some of the paint seems to have been washed down
03:32 AM CaptHindsight: latex?
03:32 AM CaptHindsight: damp down there?
03:33 AM CaptHindsight: 3:00am rolls up here, bbl
03:36 AM fragalot: acrylic because I wanted it to breathe
03:36 AM fragalot: there was another wall that was damp, which I tore down & sealed up
03:36 AM fragalot: this one is on the other end, as far underneath the house as I can get
03:37 AM fragalot: not sure where this water is coming from, because the ground water table shouldn't be as high as this at the moment
03:38 AM CaptHindsight: thompsons water seal sds
03:39 AM fragalot: not sold 'round these parts, but we've got equivalents
03:39 AM fragalot: issue with most products is that they expect the water to come from outside, not inside the brick
03:39 AM fragalot: so the other wall i've sealed with a waterproof cement plaster
03:40 AM CaptHindsight: Paraffin Wax ^^
03:42 AM CaptHindsight: heh and the "improved? version is a silane
03:42 AM CaptHindsight: http://www.chemicalbook.com/CASEN_2943-75-1.htm
03:43 AM CaptHindsight: fragalot: the brick is porous?
03:43 AM CaptHindsight: or the grout between?
03:43 AM fragalot: it's a concrete bunker
03:43 AM CaptHindsight: not cracks?
03:43 AM fragalot: no visible ones
03:44 AM CaptHindsight: so you need to seal it like a swimming pool
03:44 AM CaptHindsight: I've used acrylated concretes few mm thick
03:45 AM fragalot: that's what I did on the other end
03:45 AM fragalot: this wall wasn't accessible at the time, and I had no reason to assume it was wet too
03:45 AM fragalot: guess I was wrong
03:45 AM CaptHindsight: hhrruuumph
03:46 AM fragalot: in any case I need to wait for the existing paint to dry anyway before i could do anything else
03:47 AM CaptHindsight: big fans
03:47 AM CaptHindsight: I can send you a bag of hot air from here
03:48 AM fragalot: is it dry air?
03:48 AM CaptHindsight: 50% humidity right now
03:48 AM fragalot: lower than here, send it over
03:49 AM CaptHindsight: 35% later this afternoon
03:49 AM fragalot: 69% humidity @ 31°C at the moment in my backyard
03:49 AM fragalot: and it's 10am.....
03:50 AM CaptHindsight: similar weather here
03:50 AM CaptHindsight: 35 C later today
03:50 AM fragalot: average in may should only be 17°C though
03:50 AM CaptHindsight: same for here
03:50 AM fragalot: miss0r|office: what is it like up north?
03:50 AM CaptHindsight: 23 C at 3am
03:51 AM miss0r|office: fragalot: high humidity, angry swarms of mosquitos... you know, summer at its finest
03:51 AM CaptHindsight: you too
03:51 AM CaptHindsight: they were out earlier tonight in force
03:51 AM fragalot: miss0r|office: well, there is an easy solution for the mosquitos
03:52 AM miss0r|office: pour petrolium into all nearby bodies of water?
03:52 AM fragalot: get a cheapie pressure washer, and some infrared heater petroleum
03:52 AM miss0r|office: :D
03:52 AM fragalot: and a torch
03:52 AM miss0r|office: I was going to say 'use a flamethrower on a daily basis'
03:52 AM fragalot: :D
03:55 AM gloops: i might have some chicken news
03:56 AM gloops: nope
03:56 AM gloops: world record for smallest chicken egg is 2.1cm long
03:57 AM gloops: ive got 1 @ 3cm
03:57 AM gloops: and one about 3.2cm
03:58 AM gloops: hmm however the guinness world record is 2.7 cm, close!
03:59 AM gloops: i might have a world record egg here!
03:59 AM fragalot: can't you just get a smaller chicken
04:02 AM gloops: its not really a tiny chicken that laid them, small but not remarkably small
04:02 AM gloops: gonna get calipers shortly i reckon one is 2.6cm
04:06 AM gloops: 26.5mm it beats the guinness world record lol!
04:06 AM gloops: im applying
04:08 AM gloops: hmm, some confusion over the record though
04:08 AM fragalot: plus it takes 12 weeks for it to get processed if you don't want to pay
04:09 AM gloops: someone has applied with 25mm, im not sure if length is the only consideration
04:19 AM gloops: nah mrs has found one much smaller online, last year
04:25 AM gloops: https://ibb.co/fxFDbT lol! never had any like that before
04:29 AM miss0r|office: fragalot: I just skipped off an invoice for 3 days of work... almost 9k eur :D
04:29 AM fragalot: :-)
04:31 AM fragalot: miss0r|office: the guy I went to, his mill predates CAM systems so has no serial connection at all
04:31 AM fragalot: so you're not too bad off with yours :P
04:33 AM miss0r|office: sure, but you know the drill: more wants more
04:33 AM fragalot: :P
04:34 AM miss0r|office: so monday, i'm driving to sweden...
04:34 AM miss0r|office: :]
04:35 AM fragalot: what'd you lose there? :P
04:35 AM miss0r|office: The only shitting thing about going abroad is the different taxing system. it is a royal pain to get implimented in my system
04:35 AM fragalot: hehe
04:35 AM miss0r|office: Some guys in a factory there are having an issue with a few motors not wanting to do low arm on their VFDs
04:36 AM miss0r|office: they are suspecting something about the flywheel being off balance... I'm not so sure :] I'll need to see it first
04:36 AM fragalot: interesting that they're calling in a danish guy to fix it
04:37 AM miss0r|office: They know one of my clients, and apparently I came highly recommended
04:37 AM miss0r|office: so.. no pressure
04:37 AM fragalot: xD
04:40 AM miss0r|office: I went to the border shop on the way home... I got the usual; soft drinks, a few beers alot of candy ect... But I also bought myself a treat: a whiskey called 'smokehead', and 18year old one...
04:40 AM miss0r|office: That is a damn good whiskey :]
04:41 AM fragalot: never heard of it
04:41 AM miss0r|office: Me neither... It was actualy the case for it that caught my eye
04:42 AM miss0r|office: Instead of the standard cylinder, with a lid in the end, this one is hinged on one side, and has three latches on the other. The the bottle rests in a formcut foam cushin in there
04:42 AM miss0r|office: so; it looks cool & tastes great
04:43 AM miss0r|office: https://www.whisky.dk/shop/smokehead-18-aar-195p.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwrqnYBRB-EiwAthnBFvSCOVP7O84yoK5P_16eTIEm7m4XtllsRm9nF4uwtA0ekKsDcGNwNxoCGRgQAvD_BwE
04:44 AM fragalot: nice
04:44 AM fragalot: so that's.. what, €10? :P
04:44 AM miss0r|office: ~150eur
04:44 AM miss0r|office: your keyboard is messing up again... it forgot to add the '5' in the middle
04:45 AM fragalot: yeah i'm not sure what's wrong with it
04:46 AM fragalot: but..: deadeqadeadeqadeadeqadeadeadeqa <- that Q is not supposed to be there!
04:46 AM miss0r|office: :D
04:47 AM XXCoder: sounds like something got wet
04:47 AM fragalot: I think it's a multiplexing issue on the keyboard
04:47 AM fragalot: if I hold down E and D together, then hit a, it pops a Q in first
04:47 AM XXCoder: I remember when one of kids poured orange juice ontheir dad compuetr keyboard
04:47 AM miss0r|office: a fancy way of saying.. "Yeah, I type so fast the computer cannot keep up.. I am that good, yes"
04:47 AM XXCoder: it erased bunch of traces lol
04:47 AM fragalot: miss0r|office: well.. yes? :P
04:47 AM miss0r|office: :]
04:48 AM fragalot: hey
04:48 AM fragalot: I bought me a biax 7EL
04:48 AM fragalot: neat
04:48 AM miss0r|office: :o
04:48 AM miss0r|office: I envy you :D
04:49 AM miss0r|office: how did you come about one for a reasonable price?
04:49 AM fragalot: €261
04:49 AM fragalot: 361*
04:49 AM miss0r|office: :o damn...
04:49 AM miss0r|office: You got lucky
04:49 AM sync: I have two
04:50 AM miss0r|office: sync: wanna share? then we can both have one :D
04:54 AM Daxxin: hi , have problem with youtube footage is loading.. circle turning but the video never start
04:54 AM Daxxin: tried also firefox ..same
04:56 AM XXCoder: sounds like some internet acces issues
04:58 AM gloops: ive had that before, dunno why, worked ok next day
04:59 AM XXCoder: yeah few possible causes
04:59 AM XXCoder: isp is being clobbered, your own network being clobbered with heavy demend
05:00 AM fragalot: DNS issue?
05:00 AM Daxxin: have nvidia card but look like vga resolution ..maybe card driver conflict?
05:01 AM fragalot: maybe$
05:01 AM Daxxin: canreach only 1024x768
05:02 AM Daxxin: no i can watch with cellphone youtube no problem at all and the bar is loading the footage
05:04 AM gloops: does it get to 'processing' stage then stick on that?
05:05 AM Daxxin: yes i can view image starting video and is loading till the end but froze
05:05 AM Daxxin: and the circle is turning loop
05:06 AM gloops: yeah did that to me
05:07 AM gloops: its always when youve got a 'whoo look at this!' video
05:11 AM Daxxin: anyway not that big problem ...problem now is configure my small cnc
05:11 AM Daxxin: have a mach3 conf files from the builder
05:11 AM Daxxin: useable?
05:12 AM gloops: i think you can import them, not done it though
05:12 AM gloops: is this a stepper machine? 3 axis or so, nothing complicated?
05:13 AM Daxxin: 3 axis small nema17
05:13 AM gloops: using parallel port?
05:14 AM Daxxin: https://www.futurashop.it/CNC2018
05:14 AM Daxxin: yes
05:14 AM Daxxin: https://www.futurashop.it/image/catalog/data/Download/Configurazione_MACH3.zip
05:15 AM gloops: myself, id just run linuxcnc stepconfig
05:15 AM gloops: youll have that running in 2 shakes of a ducks tail
05:16 AM gloops: you see, if you fill in the values manually, yourself, youll know what your machine is doing, - and maybe, what its doing wrong
05:19 AM Daxxin: wich one to enable the probe?
05:21 AM gloops: connected to an input pin?
05:25 AM Daxxin: yes
05:32 AM gloops: best advice is to find proble tutorial on Ichs youtube
05:32 AM gloops: one minute
05:34 AM Daxxin: ok thanks gloops
05:35 AM gloops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r-12o7pNDY
05:35 AM gloops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvRG91yWNCQ&t=8s
05:39 AM gloops: this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvRG91yWNCQ&t=21s
05:39 AM gloops: select input pin, tick 'probe in' follow rest of instructions
05:46 AM Daxxin: linuxcnc crash
05:46 AM Daxxin: Xlib: extension "GLX" missing on display ":0.0"
05:47 AM Daxxin: X Error of failed request: BadWindow (invalid Window parameter)
05:47 AM Daxxin: i guess nvidia drivers
05:53 AM jthornton: morning
05:57 AM XXCoder: hey
05:57 AM SpeedEvil: hey
06:02 AM miss0r: hey
06:27 AM gloops: jthornton https://ibb.co/fxFDbT lol!
06:28 AM gloops: someone might help with that Daxxin, i dont know
06:30 AM jthornton: a fart egg?
06:30 AM jthornton: how big is a ten something can't read the rest
06:33 AM gloops: ten pence
06:34 AM gloops: its about 26.5mm the egg, beats previous record in Guinness book of records, shes laid 2 that one and one about 30mm lol
06:34 AM gloops: someone has applied with an egg 15mm long though
06:35 AM jthornton: wow that is small
06:35 AM gloops: ive never seen any like it before
06:35 AM jthornton: I should have measured mine when they were laying fart eggs
06:36 AM gloops: i thought it was a lump of crap when i looked in last night, 2 lumps of crap this morning lol, went to move it - eggs
06:36 AM gloops: shes laid normal eggs before no idea what causes it
06:37 AM jthornton: a bit of tissue fools the egg making to think it is an egg but there is no yolk inside
06:37 AM gloops: not thought about cracking one yet
06:39 AM gloops: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/worlds-smallest-egg-been-laid-8124742
06:39 AM gloops: anyway ive got some fluff to try cutting
06:57 AM Tom_L: mornong
06:57 AM Tom_L: morning*
07:05 AM XXCoder: moaning
07:11 AM jthornton: morning
07:11 AM jthornton: redeyepete: ask your questions here not in a pm
07:31 AM miss0r: jthornton: He just goes straight to a reputable source ;)
07:35 AM jthornton: lol
07:36 AM RyanS: how much z travel should a torch height controller have? 100mm? even corrugated sheet is only 20mm
07:36 AM SpeedEvil: That depends on the sort of corrugation
07:37 AM RyanS: not that I intend on cutting corrugated
07:38 AM * SpeedEvil imagines that corrugated, properly welded together could be ridiculously rigid at light weights.
07:38 AM jthornton: I like to have enough height to clear any tip ups
07:38 AM SpeedEvil: Think cardboard.
07:42 AM RyanS: can the thc hop over tip ups? maybe I don't follow the logic
07:44 AM fragalot: SpeedEvil: it's almost as if they use that for satellites!
07:44 AM RyanS: like thus speedevil ? https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/corrugated-cardboard-sheet-14765575848.html
07:45 AM SpeedEvil: yes, but with either spot, or fishmouth welded intersections between the corrugated sheets at rightangles.
07:46 AM fragalot: SpeedEvil: http://www.aluminiumhoneycomb.net/images/Fiberglass-honeycomb.jpg
07:46 AM fragalot: that exists in alu too
07:46 AM SpeedEvil: I was meaning in the other direction.
07:46 AM SpeedEvil: Which I'm not aware of existing, though probably does
07:46 AM jthornton: they use that stuff in ships a lot to save top side weight
07:47 AM fragalot: probably made on-site a lot.. adds a significant amount to shipping volume
07:48 AM RyanS: I think that's the stuff that apartment buildings catch on fire with
07:50 AM SpeedEvil: RyanS: That's polystyrene based
07:53 AM fragalot: miss0r: question for ya
07:53 AM fragalot: miss0r: if smoking is bad for you, then why does it cure salmon?
08:27 AM gloops: first test on ally, not bad, it handles it ok, some light chatter during points of arcs at speed - conclusion - mdf spoilboard is not ideal for machining ally on
09:14 AM Daxxin: hi while waiting to fix my linuxcnc install i'am back to my old grbl ..some expert chilipeppr here?
09:16 AM Daxxin: when i do touch plate or autolevel then when done my Z axis in work area is different than machine coordinates
09:17 AM Daxxin: from 0.220mm to 0.750mm
09:59 AM fragalot_: syyl: for a biax blade, can you use any old construction steel, or is it better to use spring steel?
09:59 AM fragalot_: syyl: blade holder*
10:08 AM Tom_L: you don't want pot metal but i'd think any decent steel would be fine
10:09 AM fragalot_: hence the minimum quantifier of construction steel :P
10:11 AM syyl: yes, any mild steel will work
10:11 AM fragalot_: Cool. saves me €60 :P
10:11 AM syyl: :)
10:12 AM syyl: and braze some carbide on
10:12 AM syyl: and your good to go
10:12 AM fragalot_: just bought me a 7/EL, really excited to give it a go
10:14 AM syyl: oha! :D
10:15 AM fragalot_: based on the pictures, it was either a) cleaned up VERY well for the pictures b) recently restored c) has had a very easy life
10:15 AM fragalot_: my guess is going to a + c
10:47 AM Spirit532 is now known as Guest29949
10:47 AM Spirit532__ is now known as Spirit532
11:08 AM Lcvette: Join
11:08 AM sync: Part
11:09 AM fragalot_: talk
11:10 AM Lcvette: What's up all
11:12 AM Lcvette: Just been plugin away at the limit and home switches on the VMC
11:12 AM fragalot_: any luck?
11:12 AM Lcvette: Tedious work taking longer than I thought it would
11:12 AM Roguish: Lcvette: how big is your machine?
11:15 AM Lcvette: Travels are X- 28" Y-16" Z-18" foot print is roughly 5' x 8.5' x 6.5"
11:15 AM Lcvette: '
11:15 AM Roguish: that's pretty good size. all your build? or retrofit of an existing?
11:16 AM Lcvette: Chinese VMC
11:16 AM Roguish: it's in a posting in cnczone? huh?
11:17 AM Lcvette: https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ecnczone%2Ecom%2Fforums%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D309614&share_tid=309614&share_fid=11158&share_type=t
11:18 AM Roguish: oh yeah. now I recall. very nice.
11:19 AM Lcvette_: Thx
11:19 AM Lcvette_: Been kicking my butt lately
11:19 AM Lcvette_: Lol
11:20 AM Roguish: it's surprising how much goes into doing it all right....
11:21 AM Lcvette_: Yeah, I'm particular in what I want and plan about for future maintenance and such so I tend to be a bit slower than some..lol
11:26 AM Lcvette_: Tom_L: how ya been
11:26 AM Roguish: Friday i worked on an old haas vmc. the y axis home switch was gooy and not triggering consistently which through off the y home position. not good.
11:27 AM Lcvette_: Where was it located
11:27 AM Roguish: broke a tool. anyway. switch was easy to get to, and clean. wd40 douche.
11:28 AM Lcvette_: Ouch
11:28 AM Roguish: it was pretty close to the front of the y travel next to the ballscrew. easy to get to. moved the saddle way back, unfastened the way covers and there it was.
11:29 AM Lcvette_: Nice that's about where I'm placing mine
11:29 AM fragalot_: Lcvette_: just been reading that thread.. seems you had a really good deal on that thing
11:29 AM fragalot_: did you check everything for accuracy yet?
11:30 AM Roguish: hope the cleaning did the trick.
11:32 AM Lcvette_: Fragalot_: still setting up limits and home switches, after that I will finish setting up the control side and then start testing everything
11:32 AM fragalot_: :-)
11:33 AM Lcvette_: But my buddy who had the same machine is getting very good results with his
11:35 AM Roguish: Lcvette_: do the encoders have index marks?
11:36 AM Lcvette_: They are incremental 5000 line encoders
11:36 AM Lcvette_: I plan on using home switch then move to index on encoder for accurate homing
11:37 AM Roguish: ok, so they do have index marks. that's definitely the best way to go. index homing.
11:37 AM Lcvette_: Yeah I think so too, hard to beat encoder accuracy
11:42 AM Lcvette_: I haven't gotten into the software yet, but once homed, can you tell the machine where it is in space?
11:42 AM Lcvette_: For example if I home not quite at travel end but an inch away from travel limit
11:43 AM Lcvette_: Can I tell it the machine is at X 1.000"
11:43 AM fragalot_: yes
11:43 AM Lcvette_: Or to go to ok good deal
11:44 AM fragalot_: you use HOME_OFFSET for that :-)
11:45 AM Lcvette_: AWESOME
11:45 AM fragalot_: and to answer the second question
11:45 AM fragalot_: yes, you can make it move elsewhere after homing
11:46 AM Lcvette_: Perfect
12:03 PM Lcvette_: I need to setup my faults still to
12:03 PM Lcvette_: Haven't started researching that yet
12:05 PM Lcvette_: I was jogging the z axis up to set the limit switch height and faulted the drive and the brake didn't engage.. I was inside the enclosure with the keyboard and the head started crying down, almost got trapped in there
12:05 PM Lcvette_: Drifting*
12:18 PM fragalot: >.<
12:19 PM fragalot: well, fourth storm of the day is rolling in
12:29 PM Vq: http://www.alphr.com/technology/1008859/makita-coffee-maker-drill-batteries
12:30 PM fragalot: a perfect fit for a building site is a thermos
01:19 PM Loetmichel: *boooarpsssss* THAT was tasty... $me just ate a full KFC filet bucket, 4 corn cobs, a big pepsi and a big shake... had to move my Mother in law yesterday, so i was HUUUUNGRY ;)
01:33 PM gloops: we havent had any storms here, over 30 000 lightning strikes in the UK last night - not had a rumble where i live
01:56 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: I'm also getting the work site microwave, washer/dryer, and crockpot, for those on the job days where you just need some comfortable clean clothes and food
01:58 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: what if you need to grate some cheese during lunch break?
01:58 PM CaptHindsight: oh and somebody please make a bagel maker that makes them in the shape of your face
02:01 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: that's what apprentices are for
02:01 PM fragalot: waffle iron?
02:02 PM CaptHindsight: retrieving the conduit stretcher, left handed pipe wrenches etc etc
02:02 PM CaptHindsight: ever been to a customer site and you wish you could have a waffle?
02:02 PM fragalot: conduit stretchers are a thing though
02:03 PM CaptHindsight: expander
02:04 PM gloops: i did go to the stores for a long stand and weight (wait)
02:04 PM fragalot: lol
02:05 PM flyback: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142462141356
02:05 PM fragalot: hadn't heard that one before, gloops
02:05 PM gloops: it sounded real enough at the time
02:13 PM gloops: how to build a million pound mansion without planning permission - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-44273049
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: got up today and the air intake to the AC's condenser was 50 C
02:21 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: Ouch
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: whats the tradesperson availability like there?
02:22 PM fragalot: the good ones have a long waiting list, but plenty of quick cowboys around
02:23 PM CaptHindsight: same here since kids haven't joined the trades after the housing bubble burst in 08
02:25 PM fragalot: yup
02:25 PM fragalot: not just that, but working with your hands is more & more frowned upon
02:26 PM fragalot: stay in school, get a higher education degree, and shut up
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: the future is all about apps
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: don't think, just buy
02:27 PM fragalot: and buy again when said thing wears out prematurely
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: 30 years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJC4R1uXDaE THEY LIVE - Trailer
02:30 PM fragalot: trailer, or documentary
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: nothing to see here, move along :)
02:32 PM * fragalot puts on some automatica
02:34 PM CaptHindsight: They Live and Idiocracy really stand out
02:35 PM fragalot: yeah
02:35 PM fragalot: I remembered idiocracy to be a better movie than it really is though
02:35 PM fragalot: I mean.. it is actually really bad..
02:35 PM fragalot: accurate, but bad
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, but it just hit the nail on the head so many times
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: Gattaca
02:36 PM fragalot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAdqazixuRY
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: Minority Report
02:36 PM fragalot: if only the kuka's didn't look so fake
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: even the first Robo Cop
02:37 PM fragalot: even though they could be real, it just looks unrealsistic
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: Kuka commercial
02:39 PM Rab: Idiocracy had a pitifully small budget, it's remarkable what the filmmakers accomplished compared to, like, yer average Adam Sandler movie.
02:39 PM fragalot: we don't talk about those
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: what is the name of the group that combined robots, large LCD displays and theater
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: Google purchased them
02:39 PM fragalot: compressorhead?
02:40 PM Deejay: its LCD or LC display. but not LCD display :/
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: out of San Francisco
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: good evening Deejay
02:40 PM Rab: The LCD display helps you put your PIN number into the ATM machine.
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: he lives
02:40 PM Deejay: hello, sir :)
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: yeah lets get into a grammar discussion on IRC
02:42 PM fragalot: yeah, IRC chat isn't the best place to talk about that
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: BOT&DOLLY
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX6JcybgDFo
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: need a LCNC plugin for controller 6+ axis arms with some sort of video game-like UI
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: I've seen so many projects avoid LCNC...
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: do they not like PC's, Linux or NIST?
02:51 PM fragalot: I think it's more that a grbl or smoothieboard are way more compact
02:52 PM fragalot: and cost about the same as a pc would if you don't already have a spare lying about
02:52 PM CaptHindsight: really! It's real estate on the or under the desk?
02:52 PM fragalot: realestate is precious
02:52 PM fragalot: i'm going to see if I can fit a panelPC in my control cabinet for that very reason
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: I found a cabinet with frame for a 12" monitor used only at trade shows...
02:53 PM fragalot: current box is using an ancient laptop that slides out of a drawer under the engraver
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: all SS but the monitor window is 4:3
02:54 PM fragalot: can it FIT a 16:9?
02:54 PM fragalot: because it should be possible to convince X to just black border the thing :P
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: where to post images for low cost or free? I used to use imagebin but they get so many hits they took my pictures down
02:55 PM fragalot: imgur?
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: 12" 16:9 maybe
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: but I also found some 4:3 LCD's here
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: only have VGA inputs
02:55 PM fragalot: adapters are cheap
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: MB has VGA
02:56 PM fragalot: cables are cheap :P
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: just forgot that all used to only have VGA
02:58 PM syyl: sounds just as painfall as a few year old cnc controller ;)
02:58 PM syyl: monochrom crt
02:58 PM syyl: yay
02:58 PM fragalot: syyl: with no real interface
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: found some of those as well
02:59 PM syyl: haha yeah
02:59 PM fragalot: all it gives you are the current coordinates, and lets you enter G-code using the dedicated keyboard
02:59 PM syyl: and they will rip you off for a retrofit display
02:59 PM fragalot: (with dedicated I mean it only has the buttons it needzs, nothing more)
02:59 PM syyl: "that makes 4kilobucks please"
02:59 PM Deejay: re
03:00 PM syyl: wb?
03:00 PM Deejay: tnx
03:12 PM CaptHindsight: https://postimg.cc/image/j78ltlhl3/
03:13 PM miss0r: cute. What material is that?
03:13 PM fragalot: makes a huge difference doesn't it
03:14 PM fragalot: i'm guessing aerospace grade aluminium!
03:14 PM CaptHindsight: chinese aluminum
03:14 PM fragalot: same thing for them
03:14 PM CaptHindsight: https://postimg.cc/image/jwre6apxz/
03:14 PM miss0r: the chinese makes space rockets too
03:15 PM CaptHindsight: https://postimg.cc/image/vlvdudjif/
03:15 PM miss0r: you building a new router, capt?
03:16 PM CaptHindsight: https://postimg.cc/image/qn7vfw5fr/ red oxide treated fasteners
03:17 PM CaptHindsight: https://ibin.co/3qG2tpSzxO12.jpg here's the SS cabinet I found
03:17 PM miss0r: I don't see anything looking too red
03:18 PM CaptHindsight: the heads of the fasteners holding the wiring, the nuts acting as spacers between the motors and the frame....
03:19 PM miss0r: I don't see it
03:20 PM CaptHindsight: 1-2mm lash, since the bearings float
03:20 PM CaptHindsight: https://postimg.cc/image/emmff4vg7/
03:20 PM CaptHindsight: miss0r: no, just reposting pics that come up often
03:21 PM gloops: only wants a spring washer
03:21 PM CaptHindsight: what do you think of this Chinese router?
03:21 PM CaptHindsight: well depends on how lucky you get
03:21 PM miss0r: They all looks the same to me :)
03:21 PM fragalot: well
03:21 PM fragalot: mine looks /similar/ (it doesn't)
03:21 PM CaptHindsight: we got a bunch from Automation technology, they all had to be reworked
03:21 PM fragalot: and the bed has a nice .12mm bow to it
03:22 PM fragalot: and i've decided that we shouldn't talk about flex or backlash. :-)
03:22 PM CaptHindsight: but he was local and ~$600 es for a 45 x 30
03:22 PM gloops: i missed out on a big bag of spring washers at the boot sale, told bloke id never use that many in 2 lifetimes, course the next day you need..a couple of spring washers
03:22 PM CaptHindsight: these were for materials deposition
03:22 PM CaptHindsight: no cutting
03:22 PM fragalot: gloops: standard spring washers are a waste of time.
03:23 PM gloops: theyll take the backlash out of something like that
03:24 PM gloops: or endfloat as it is
03:25 PM miss0r: fragalot: Yeah, you should listen to gloops on this. He just build a router from scratch
03:25 PM gregcnc: may be effective https://www.ebay.com/itm/123112047613
03:26 PM gloops: you shouldnt underestimate my machine knowledge, just because im not good with cnc, ive been around machines since before you lot were born
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: i have no where to keep him
03:27 PM fragalot: gloops: are we talking about the standard serrated or split spring washers, or belleville washers?
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: the bent ones
03:27 PM gloops: looking at that machine - either or
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: miss0r: how we used them https://postimg.cc/image/lse6hl4jb/
03:29 PM fragalot: he's gone
03:29 PM gregcnc: printing ears or something?
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: as you can see we lost enormous amounts of counter space with the PC controller
03:30 PM CaptHindsight: so we purchased a shelf
03:31 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: noses :)
03:32 PM rmu: raspberry pi + mesa 7i90 is small FF
03:32 PM CaptHindsight: what I need are small servo or stepper drives and power supplies
03:33 PM CaptHindsight: rpi save a few sq inches and then I lose all the easy to build x86 stuff
03:33 PM rmu: rpi is also easy to build
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: do you run raspian on yours?
03:34 PM rmu: switching powersupply, stepper driver like gecko or somthing self-built with st powerstep01 or similar
03:34 PM rmu: yes
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: imx8 on a mesa fpga would be nice
03:34 PM rmu: raspbian with preempt-rt
03:34 PM rmu: one core dedicated to realtime-stuff
03:35 PM CaptHindsight: whats easy to build involving a rpi?
03:35 PM rmu: typical latency <10µs, worst case <45µs
03:35 PM SpeedEvil: rmu: that sounds interesting.
03:36 PM SpeedEvil: rmu: is there a project to already do that - I've been wondering about this for ages
03:36 PM fragalot: indeed it does
03:36 PM rmu: just plug in industrial spec sd card ;) and hook up to power supply
03:36 PM CaptHindsight: did they ever open the video/gpu drivers and blob to boot it?
03:36 PM rmu: what does it matter
03:36 PM rmu: PC bios and gpu stuff isn't open either
03:36 PM CaptHindsight: just wondering
03:37 PM CaptHindsight: yeah but i can choose my kernel with x86
03:37 PM rmu: i think there is some progress regarding gpu drivers, but not much regarding boot code
03:37 PM rmu: you can choose your kernel with rpi
03:37 PM CaptHindsight: how do you build the gpu driver against the kernel?
03:38 PM rmu: i didn't build any gpu drivers
03:38 PM rmu: stock raspbian + self compiled rt preempt kernel
03:38 PM CaptHindsight: the gpu binaries work with any kernel version?
03:39 PM CaptHindsight: oh you have to pick a raspian kernel?
03:39 PM rmu: i used the raspberry pi patch to the official kernel.org 4.9.something and on top of it the rt preempt patch v65
03:39 PM CaptHindsight: OK, thanks
03:40 PM rmu: i think i have to make a writeup
03:40 PM rmu: will document when i upgrade to 4.14 or whatever is the latest LTS kernel
03:40 PM SpeedEvil: rmu: I wish I had the energy, I've been banging on about this for 4 years or so now.
03:40 PM SpeedEvil: Fun thing.
03:40 PM CaptHindsight: what if you don't want to use raspian?
03:40 PM SpeedEvil: ...
03:40 PM SpeedEvil: then port it, the idea isn't very hard
03:41 PM fragalot: rmu: Please do, i'm quite interested :-)
03:41 PM rmu: i also had linuxcnc on some mint version for the raspberry pi
03:41 PM CaptHindsight: yeah we watched the dram on the ML with Gene unfold
03:41 PM rmu: mint did come with some fresher versions of QT and other libs at that time
03:41 PM CaptHindsight: dram/drama
03:42 PM rmu: the SPI stuff was a bit unstable but I think most kinks are straightened now
03:43 PM SpeedEvil: rmu: Could also be very useful for stuff like drones.
03:43 PM phaxx: are my expectations too high or is 0.1mm of backlash on a mill far too high?
03:44 PM rmu: SpeedEvil: what stuff? preempt-rt? there really is no secret sauce invoved in building such a kernel
03:44 PM gloops: phaxx id say your expectations arent too high
03:45 PM gloops: but tell us more about the mill
03:45 PM SpeedEvil: Oh - I meant going a little deeper and booting with numcores=3 or whatever the flag is - preempt-RT is also interesting as a first step.
03:45 PM SpeedEvil: I should read more carefully
03:46 PM phaxx: gloops: hm. it's a "Contour Minor", an educational mill popular in the UK in the 80s/90s.
03:46 PM phaxx: I, and at least one person before me, disassembled the ball nuts for cleaning/regreasing without knowing what we're doing, so we've probably ruined various things.
03:47 PM phaxx: it very reliably has 0.11mm of backlash in the Z.
03:47 PM rmu: SpeedEvil: i use isolcpus=3, that means cpu number 3 is excluded from scheduling
03:47 PM SpeedEvil: Add a preload spring. (mostly kidding)
03:48 PM SpeedEvil: ah - yes
03:48 PM rmu: SpeedEvil: but you can explicitely request a process/thread to be run on this cpu with e.g. taskset command
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: adjustable self centering preload spring? :0
03:49 PM rmu: linuxcnc has some code to figure out if a cpu is reserved for realtime stuff
03:49 PM rmu: and there is some environment you can set to force hal on some specific cores
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: whats the attraction to using a rpi vs x86 for this?
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: just wondering
03:50 PM rmu: i can keep 2 identically setup spares in a drawer ;) in case something goes wrong
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: is this for a commercial product?
03:51 PM gloops: http://stoneycnc.co.uk/contour-cnc-mill-upgrade/ like that phaxx?
03:51 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: price, form factor?
03:51 PM phaxx: that exact one, work holding clamps and all.
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: say a router where maybe K's are sold per year?
03:52 PM rmu: and my PC setups always had some troubles with unexpected latencies happening every 2 hours or so
03:52 PM rmu: CaptHindsight: if you meant me, no it is not for a commercial product
03:52 PM gloops: phaxx as suggested, you either need to spring the nut against another one, or add counter weight
03:52 PM CaptHindsight: asking anyone
03:52 PM gloops: or just get a new screw
03:52 PM CaptHindsight: looking for feedback
03:52 PM phaxx: hmmm. a second nut would imply just getting a new screw with opposing nuts already fitted.
03:53 PM phaxx: counterweight is interesting.
03:53 PM SpeedEvil: CaptHindsight: smaller, lower power, several versus many thousand options, more stable BIOS/design for a given model
03:53 PM SpeedEvil: CaptHindsight: certainty of supply (you'll be able to buy one on ebay for quite a while yet)
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: everyone has different problems and desires
03:55 PM CaptHindsight: wondering what they are
03:55 PM CaptHindsight: like choosing socks
03:55 PM rmu: i have a system running rpi and a custom stm32f3 board doing step generation (more or less the linuxcnc stepgen code), communicating via SPI
03:56 PM rmu: beats a pc-based parallel port system
03:56 PM gloops: phaxx its always going to press the backlash out in the z when it plunges, you just need it to start in that position
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: beats in what way? faster rapids?
03:56 PM rmu: less jitter on step spacing
03:57 PM rmu: faster rapids, yes, but that doesn't matter that much in that case
03:58 PM rmu: jitter on steps should be less than 0,1µs
03:58 PM phaxx: gloops: hm. like add a Z motion in the g-code prefix area in a CAM tool, so it's always starting from a known state?
03:58 PM SpeedEvil: CaptHindsight: In a similar concept, I just threw out all my socks and bought one variant.
03:58 PM SpeedEvil: yay
03:58 PM CaptHindsight: 0,1µs = 100nS ?
03:58 PM rmu: yes, 100ns
03:59 PM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: what did you settle on?
03:59 PM CaptHindsight: wait let me guess
03:59 PM gloops: phaxx linuxcnc does that for you
03:59 PM SpeedEvil: CaptHindsight: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B073D1XM1H
03:59 PM CaptHindsight: cotton poly blend, 1/2 up the shin length, no seam over the toes
04:00 PM phaxx: yeah, I'm using grbl but hanging out there because of the knowledge I'm picking up. :)
04:00 PM gloops: BACKLASH = 0.11
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: i have some of those
04:00 PM gregcnc: dark colors seem to last longer than white
04:00 PM phaxx: no backlash compensation in grbl yet.
04:01 PM hazzy-dev: I have an embroidery machine and number my sock pairs so they wear evenly. OCD?
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: i was really busy a couple of years ago and we didn't have a washer at the time so I now have 6+ months worth of socks
04:01 PM phaxx: I'm fuzzy on how much backlash is too much backlash to be adequately compensated for in software.
04:01 PM gloops: could try counterweight, z is always pulled up then
04:01 PM gregcnc: hmmm, that seems like a good idea hazzy
04:02 PM hazzy-dev: gregcnc: its great!
04:02 PM gregcnc: 180+pair lol
04:02 PM gregcnc: i'd hate to step inot that room
04:02 PM gloops: phaxx depends what youre doing i suppose
04:02 PM CaptHindsight: hazzy-dev: numbers 1, 2? 1 for left and 2 for right or for consecutive days like 1a and 1b, 2a, 2b?
04:03 PM phaxx: gloops: yeah. learning, mostly. making little aluminium cases to house electronics projects, and I figure 0.1mm accuracy is going to be plenty for my purposes.
04:04 PM hazzy-dev: Capt: Both left and right get the same number, I can tell which is which from the shape they get after wearing once or twice
04:04 PM gloops: any problems with the finish on the ally, or chattering etc?
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: hazzy-dev: I try to swap feet every time I change
04:04 PM hazzy-dev: Different batches get different colors so I know the date I got them on
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: well swap sock, not my feet
04:04 PM hazzy-dev: lol
04:05 PM hazzy-dev: I can't stand to swap which side I wear them on! it makes them wear faster not to though ...
04:05 PM phaxx: gloops: haven't gotten that far, I'm still in the rebuild phase, swapping motor drivers and verifying repeatability.
04:06 PM phaxx: gloops: I've been losing steps with a DRV8818 set of drivers, just swapped to TB6600 drivers and I think it's better, more power.
04:07 PM gloops: well a lot of people swear by the tb6600, and a lot dont heh, should be fine
04:08 PM phaxx: the specs, and cooling arrangements, are better than what I was using before so I have high hopes. I almost got decent results in wood with that setup. after another round of verification once I have all TB6600s in place I should be good to do the first aluminium cut.
04:08 PM gloops: sure its the nut>screw thats causing the backlash? could be the screw moving or coupling loose or something
04:10 PM phaxx: /pretty/ sure it's the nut to screw interface, the coupling appears solid and the screw isn't obviously wobbling around but I haven't put the gauge on it yet.
04:10 PM CaptHindsight: hazzy-dev: I just swap them before they crack
04:10 PM phaxx: though there are grub screws in the coupling that I haven't checked, thanks.
04:10 PM CaptHindsight: can strecth 6 months of sock to several years this way :p
04:12 PM CaptHindsight: might use https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers/applications-processors/i.mx-applications-processors/i.mx-8-processors:IMX8-SERIES with LCNC on a commercial project
04:13 PM gloops: i guess a lot of small mills come with either wear or built in faults and inadequacies - the skill is in putting them right
04:15 PM rmu: CaptHindsight: do you have an existing board with this cpu or are you designing something new
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: rmu: waiting to see what becomes available in a standard module befoe I build a board
04:17 PM CaptHindsight: before even
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: torn between continuing RTAI for Ryzen or moving to imx8
04:20 PM CaptHindsight: with x86 you never really run out of room for adding things like vision to a LCNC system
04:21 PM rmu: just integrating vision into my rpi system
04:21 PM rmu: raspberry pi camera on a second pi streaming via udp
04:22 PM rmu: i have nearly 25m cable between control box and camera
04:22 PM CaptHindsight: with x86 you have a few OS's running besides Linux and the RTAI kernel
04:23 PM CaptHindsight: waiting to see what Ron and others do with replacing or killing most of EFI
04:23 PM rmu: why would you want to kill EFI?
04:23 PM rmu: i thought the evil things are system management mode and co
04:24 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, it's all in EFI
04:24 PM CaptHindsight: not too concerned about back doors since the machines aren't on the interwebs
04:24 PM rmu: but it was also in non-EFI classical BIOSen
04:24 PM CaptHindsight: but the other OS's can and do interrupt RTAI
04:25 PM rmu: yes, i know, been there, that was one reason to leave pc-based systems behind ;)
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iffTJ1vPCSo
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: Replace Your Exploit-Ridden Firmware with Linux - Ronald Minnich, Google
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: he covers most of it
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: haven't used Intel in more than a decade
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: AMD has it's own issues but at least we used to have source for AMD firmware
04:27 PM rmu: my laptop is running intel, the desktops amd
04:28 PM CaptHindsight: there is enough cpu for real time in an imx8 along with a gpu with drivers we can build
04:28 PM rmu: but there is only so much time and in the end you have to choose between being "correct" and getting something done
04:29 PM rmu: don't think i will run non-standard bioses "in production" any time soon
04:31 PM CaptHindsight: the RTAI dev here has been working on a all non magic too chain for ARM
04:31 PM CaptHindsight: too/tool
04:31 PM CaptHindsight: we'll see
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: the machines are getting more complicated
04:32 PM Deejay: gn8
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: have one now with 4 conveyor belts feeding parts to a gantry robot with all sorts of temp, hydraulic and motion controls
04:33 PM rmu: didn't find much info on RTAI on ARM
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: there isn't
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: not worth porting
04:34 PM rmu: hmm. what kind of toolchain is the RTAI dev working then
04:34 PM rmu: misunderstood
04:34 PM CaptHindsight: no magic kernel and file system building
04:36 PM rmu: there is not that much magic involved in building a cross compiled kernel for ARM
04:37 PM CaptHindsight: ok
04:37 PM rmu: filesystem I'm not sure, but it should be mostly debootstrap on a loop-mounted disk image
04:38 PM CaptHindsight: https://crosstool-ng.github.io/ ?
04:38 PM rmu: get kernel source, cross compile toolchain (just an apt-get away on ubuntu), set some env variables and make defconfig
04:40 PM rmu: I had a look at that a long time ago, but found i didn't need it, there is gcc-arm-embedded project on launchpad by ARM for cortex-m stuff and gcc-arm-linux-guneabihf for crosscompiling to PI
04:41 PM rmu: even cross-compiled QT for the pi, IIRC it's just a matter of setting some environment_var
04:42 PM rmu: (gcc-arm-linux-gnueabihf is available on ubuntu)
04:45 PM CaptHindsight: maybe the devs someday will have an ISO for the pi or similar
04:46 PM CaptHindsight: for situations when what you're doing is good enough
04:47 PM phaxx: any idea why I get more reliable movements with 4x microstepping, but 1x and 2x often cause me to lose steps? had an error of 0.67mm with 1x stepping.
04:47 PM phaxx: this is working the opposite way to what I expected.
04:47 PM rmu: just now, I install raspbian, install cross compiled kernel, and install linuxcnc from source
04:49 PM rmu: phaxx: perhaps less jerk -> less vibrations
04:49 PM gloops: try lower acceleration
04:49 PM phaxx: it's already super low, but I'll try, thanks.
04:51 PM phaxx: lower acceleration doesn't seem to help, same behaviour at 2mm/sec^2 as at 5 and 10.
04:53 PM gloops: hmm, that is strange
04:56 PM gloops: is this while cutting phaxx or without any load?
04:58 PM phaxx: no load.
04:59 PM gloops: something not right here if its losing steps like that
05:00 PM rmu: powersupply?
05:01 PM phaxx: yeah, maybe. 28V, 17A.
05:01 PM gloops: for nema 17s?
05:03 PM phaxx: hm, no, let me dig out the datasheet for this damn thing, it's ancient.
05:04 PM rmu: if you changed drivers, did you adjust motor current?
05:04 PM rmu: s/drivers/drives/
05:05 PM Tom_L: damn, missed him again..
05:05 PM phaxx: https://www.slideshare.net/v8wgm/astrosyn-l281-stepper-motor
05:06 PM phaxx: sorry, that's the only source I have for that stepper.
05:06 PM phaxx: yeah, the new drivers have different current limits.
05:06 PM phaxx: using higher current now than I was with the old drivers.
05:10 PM gloops: 1.7 amp i think, but can take higher voltage
05:10 PM phaxx: with these new drivers, I can switch back to the original power supply that came with this thing, which is ~36V.
05:10 PM phaxx: there's also the series/parallel wiring for the steppers, not sure which to use.
05:11 PM gloops: exceeding the amp rating a lot will burn the coils out, the volts can be upped though
05:12 PM phaxx: hm, putting 2.8A into them at the moment. I was losing more steps with the DRV8818 at 2.5A, and reaching temp limits on that driver too.
05:13 PM phaxx: the motor is still cool after ~30m at that current, it's only at ~46C in the middle right now.
05:13 PM gloops: ahh no, 2.4 amp not 1.7
05:13 PM phaxx: so I reckon that's okay.
05:14 PM rmu: phaxx: modern drivers usually reduce current through the motor at standstill
05:15 PM gloops: still, with no load, even it is is underpowered it shouldnt drop steps
05:16 PM phaxx: yeah.
05:16 PM phaxx: it only happens when moving up, so I wonder if the Z is too loose.
05:17 PM phaxx: but then I need more power to drive it up.
05:20 PM gloops: 0.6mm surely isnt backlash in the nut
05:21 PM phaxx: nope. it's a big, visible drop.
05:21 PM phaxx: I don't think the nut is in perfect shape but it's not that screwed
05:21 PM phaxx: and at 4x microstepping it's fine.
05:21 PM phaxx: (or rarer, and I haven't seen it yet)
05:24 PM gloops: well, looking at the graph, looks like torque peaks at about 5-600 steps
05:25 PM phaxx: yep. hmm.
05:28 PM gloops: drivers can take 42v, bit higher voltage would get the best from the motors, and eliminate any mechanical problem, wind the screw up by hand, could be binding if its out of alignment, or wedging, screw cant move up and down in the bearings etc
05:32 PM gloops: ive only got 270 oz motor on z axis it pulls 10kg up at 2000mm/min no problem, but aligning the nut was tedious - a fraction out is the difference between free and hard to turn
05:37 PM phaxx: the head is too heavy to wind it on by hand. :)
05:37 PM phaxx: the nut is probably out of alignment, I don't have flexible couplings on any of these axes.
05:38 PM phaxx: not sure why it was built like that
05:43 PM asdfasd: anyone making PCBs on cnc?
06:02 PM hazzy-dev: asdfasd: Loetmichel here has made some really good looking PCBs on his router
06:12 PM asdfasd: thanks
06:14 PM Tom_L: hazzy, how'd the kernel work out?
06:20 PM hazzy-dev: Tom_L: Great! I have not put it on any of the machines yet, but it is running very nicely here on the laptop
06:22 PM hazzy-dev: Been running the latency test ever since i started running the kernel and max jitter is only at 31584
06:24 PM hazzy-dev: Ive been moving a bunch of large vid files around and doing some editing, which with the old kernel would make the jitter go way up
06:30 PM phaxx: switched to the original power supply that came with the machine, some of that apparent backlash disappeared. hmm.
06:30 PM phaxx: measuring 0.06mm at worst now
06:33 PM hazzy-dev: Were you using a switching power supply? I've had those cause some funky problems with steppers ...
06:45 PM phaxx: yeah, a cheapish one that was intended for use with a 3D printer. much smaller steppers.
06:48 PM asdfasd: not only highly overrated but also a lots of high frequency noise
07:03 PM hazzy-dev: phaxx: As far as I can tell, some of the cheap SMPSUs shut down momentarily when the stepper motors stop, which can cause odd behavior of the stepper driver
07:03 PM hazzy-dev: I don't know what causes the PSU to shutdown, it might be because these PSU can't absorb the back EMF from the stepper very well and they go into over voltage shutdown, or maybe they can't respond to the change in load fast enough
07:05 PM hazzy-dev: I guess adding some caps to the output if the PSU might help ...
07:08 PM enleth: is there anyone here controlling a wire EDM with LinuxCNC?
07:19 PM andypugh: enleth: It has been done.
07:20 PM andypugh: There is an experimental branch that allows feed-override to go negative and move backwards through the profile.
07:25 PM jdh: with the planner ruuning backwards?
07:33 PM andypugh: Yes
07:38 PM jdh: do you get the same path?
07:42 PM andypugh: You should
08:32 PM CaptHindsight: I sent someone a stepper system with the load on a pulley like a fishing reel and told them to not disconnect the power from the driver under load...
08:33 PM CaptHindsight: few days later "hey the power supply and the driver had smoke coming out of them"
08:35 PM CaptHindsight: I think I measured >>60V across the motor when the load was dropped from max Z
08:35 PM SpeedEvil: If it's not on a UPS, ...
08:37 PM CaptHindsight: nah, they had the load at max Z and then shutdown LCNC and the PC
08:37 PM CaptHindsight: I fixed it once before I swapped out the cable system to a lead screw that didn't need a brake for the Z
08:38 PM CaptHindsight: hazzy: so yeah, back EMF, you have to make it idiot proof as possible
08:41 PM hazzy-dev: yep, back EMF is bad if you don't have a way to absorb it
08:42 PM CaptHindsight: so how many Bluetooth xmitters can you have in the same room with one receiver?
08:42 PM SpeedEvil: Just add a suitable load on a relay which activates when power is removed. Perhaps a 1000W air-raid siren.
08:42 PM hazzy-dev: In a situation like you had, having a NC relay on the motor leads would work well. It would limit the speed the motor would let the load drop and save the drive
08:42 PM CaptHindsight: toaster oven
08:42 PM CaptHindsight: but the siren gets the point across :)
08:43 PM CaptHindsight: but but they wanted it cheap and simple
08:43 PM hazzy-dev: SpeedEvil: great minds think alike :D
08:43 PM CaptHindsight: no budget for fancy relays
08:44 PM hazzy-dev: I like the siren idea, lol, too bad it what not in the budget
08:44 PM CaptHindsight: oh and after the pully and cable was replaced by a z lead screw positioner they crashed it a few more times and broke the Z
08:45 PM CaptHindsight: so some people just can't be trusted with anything
08:45 PM CaptHindsight: even a low budget proto
08:46 PM CaptHindsight: "will this prototype be safe from me?"
08:47 PM hazzy-dev: A little relay would cost a lot less than a redesign with a lead screw :P
08:47 PM CaptHindsight: and I need it in 48 hours
08:47 PM hazzy-dev: still
08:47 PM CaptHindsight: just don't do it
08:47 PM hazzy-dev: just giving you hard time :)
08:48 PM CaptHindsight: yup
08:48 PM CaptHindsight: they keep on making better idiots
08:48 PM XXCoder: idiots all way down
08:50 PM SpeedEvil: Always mechanical solutions to things.
08:50 PM SpeedEvil: Add a grease fitting to the top of the stepper and top it off with some nice thick grease.
08:50 PM CaptHindsight: but they want to program it
08:50 PM CaptHindsight: why does the screw spin so loud?
08:51 PM CaptHindsight: oh we didn't fill the positioner with grease yet
08:51 PM CaptHindsight: oh, so now you want servos?
09:22 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OSBORN-4-CUTTER-SIDE-FACE-RIPPING-MILLING-NEW-UNUSED-4-X-2-HSS-TOOL/112978489772 What would be the proper term for a cutter like this, but twice as thick along the axle, with no side cutting ability
09:22 PM SpeedEvil: Idly wondering after finding my new garden tool has one
09:22 PM SpeedEvil: Not, I suspect, HSS though
09:23 PM CaptHindsight: so it could surface?
09:24 PM SpeedEvil: yes.
09:25 PM SpeedEvil: I guess you would in a machining context usually use it with a large horizontal mill
09:25 PM CaptHindsight: face mill?
09:26 PM CaptHindsight: sans inserts
09:26 PM hazzy-dev: End cutting on a horizontal?
09:26 PM SpeedEvil: Err
09:26 PM hazzy-dev: Shell mill
09:26 PM andypugh: Try “slab lilling cutter” and variants. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183183670652
09:27 PM CaptHindsight: andy just made that up :p
09:27 PM SpeedEvil: That looks like it.
09:27 PM SpeedEvil: :)
09:27 PM andypugh: Err, “Slab Milling Cutter” I mean
09:27 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milling_cutter#Slab_mill
09:30 PM * SpeedEvil idly wonders about fitting replacement 'inserts' to it.
09:30 PM CaptHindsight: doesn't that only cut to the sides?
09:32 PM andypugh: Off-topic. Currently I am reading this: https://library.sciencemadness.org/library/books/ignition.pdf which is famous for contining the paragraph:
09:32 PM CaptHindsight: <-- leaves the machining to the machinists
09:32 PM andypugh: “All this sounds fairly academic and innocuous, but when it is translated into the problem of handling the stuff, the results are horrendous. It is, of course, extremely toxic, but that's the least of the problem. It is hypergolic with every known fuel, and so rapidly hypergolic that no ignition delay has ever been measured. It is also hypergolic with such things as cloth, wood, and test engineers, not to mention
09:32 PM andypugh: asbestos, sand, and water with which it reacts explosively. It can be kept in some of the ordinary structural metals steel, copper, aluminium, etc. because of the formation of a thin film of insoluble metal fluoride which protects the bulk of the metal, just as the invisible coat of oxide on aluminium keeps it from burning up in the atmosphere. If, however, this coat is melted or scrubbed off, and has no chance to
09:32 PM andypugh: reform, the operator is confronted with the problem of coping with a metal-fluorine fire. For dealing with this situation, I have always recommended a good pair of running shoes.”
09:33 PM SpeedEvil: CaptHindsight: I mean parallel to the axis, and not conventional inserts.
09:34 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Faulkner
09:34 PM SpeedEvil: More simple HSS or steel blades. I guess it's got several sharpenings in it before
09:34 PM CaptHindsight: the man that never ended a sentence :)
09:35 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ignition-Informal-History-Liquid-Propellants-ebook/dp/B076838QS2 It is also available on Amazon
09:35 PM andypugh: Here is a slab mill in action to expalin to those who don’t play with Ye Olde Horizontale Millers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymql8mq9c9A
09:35 PM SpeedEvil: Though as both authors are long dead, and the onlybeneficiary of it would be Rutgers university, ...
09:36 PM CaptHindsight: oh those sideways thingies
09:36 PM * SpeedEvil wishes Tom Mueller wrote abook.
09:36 PM hazzy-dev: I have several old school books on making slab mills, Cincinnati used to make an optional attachment for their universal mills that was specifically designed for making slab mills
09:43 PM CaptHindsight: https://twitter.com/David_Leavitt/status/1000434800333938690/photo/1
09:44 PM CaptHindsight: retired English teacher corrected a letter from Trump and sent it back to the White House
09:46 PM unterhausen: on Friday, I was helping restore a system that had been crashed by a grad student
09:46 PM unterhausen: he just typed in some motion commands and walked away
09:47 PM unterhausen: unfortunately, he mistyped
09:47 PM CaptHindsight: how much damage?
09:47 PM unterhausen: I think it ended up costing less than $10k
09:47 PM unterhausen: could have been much worse, but I guess the company rebuilds the sensors a lot
09:48 PM unterhausen: I keep trying to tell them they need an estop
09:49 PM unterhausen: sensor originally cost $120k, optic was $10k, but the optic was ok
09:51 PM unterhausen: I think I have had 10 undergrads use that machine with no problems, but one Ph.D. student and blam!
10:12 PM CaptHindsight: that explains it
10:13 PM CaptHindsight: it was a Ph.D. operating the machine with the pulley
10:15 PM norias: ?
10:27 PM unterhausen: I hope he doesn't get a Ph.D., he's not exactly worthy
10:30 PM norias: i'm not worthy!
10:56 PM XXCoder: so tired.
10:56 PM hazzy-dev: There is something about Ph.Ds, I have worked with some that were absolutely brilliant and a joy to have in the lab, but some of the others were an absolute terror. Book smart they were, but had no clue how to do things safely in a lab.
10:56 PM hazzy-dev: When we saw one of those coming we would hide and pretend the lab was empty so we would not have to let them in (there was a reason they were not allowed to have keys, while even a few undergrads were ...)
10:57 PM hazzy-dev: XXCoder: Long day?
10:57 PM XXCoder: yeah
10:57 PM XXCoder: but my nephew room is mostly done, paint, insulation, and drywalls
10:58 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: sounds like you've done a gut rebuild
10:58 PM XXCoder: only need to bolt one of walls to concerete (wonder why it wasn't) and fill in those walls with drywalls
10:58 PM hazzy-dev: Nice! That is a lot of work
10:58 PM CaptHindsight: new construction or addition?
10:58 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: neither
10:58 PM XXCoder: water damage, we had sump pump added months ago, but was working on living room and my bro's bedroom first
10:59 PM XXCoder: we used that room as storage of tools and such till now. we will do rest of it soon and finally that boy have his own room
11:00 PM XXCoder: he will have his own networking installed. we also finished networking cables routing to my mom room also
11:00 PM hazzy-dev: I'm sure he will be glad to have a room to himself!
11:00 PM XXCoder: so network is nearly done
11:05 PM XXCoder: hazzy-dev: no shit
11:06 PM Tom_L: drywall is a job i detest
11:07 PM XXCoder: tasty powder
11:07 PM XXCoder: ;)
11:08 PM Tom_L: i've done the upstairs and down
11:08 PM Tom_L: don't care to do much more of it
11:08 PM XXCoder: we did it much faster this time. we had finally figured better way when we were completeing bro's bedroom
11:08 PM XXCoder: heh if I ever need to do my room, I'd have to completely rip out all walls.
11:08 PM XXCoder: 1940s wood walls and "isulation"
11:09 PM Tom_L: lath n plaster
11:09 PM XXCoder: my closets is wood paneled. pretty cool lol
11:09 PM Tom_L: took it all out and sheet rocked it
11:09 PM XXCoder: master rooms back then had 2 seperate closets for man and woman
11:09 PM XXCoder: since im single I get both lol
11:10 PM Tom_L: didn't have a downstairs until i dug one: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/house/1.jpg
11:10 PM XXCoder: nice
11:11 PM XXCoder: I kinda wonder if basement had been expanded at some point
11:11 PM XXCoder: because the room with old painting (that we covered over :( ) have smoother but older walls than nephew's. those walls are layered pour
11:11 PM XXCoder: looks kind of newer
11:11 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/house/11.jpg
11:12 PM XXCoder: both old concerete though
11:12 PM Tom_L: i paid to have that done but i did everything else
11:12 PM XXCoder: did you put in sump pump? or is weather just not problem?
11:12 PM Tom_L: wiring, hvac, plumbing, moved the main sewer line erc
11:12 PM Tom_L: etc
11:13 PM Tom_L: yeah there's a sump but it's never been used
11:13 PM Tom_L: sump and waste pump both
11:13 PM XXCoder: we had to add it
11:13 PM XXCoder: reseller did such a shitty job on this building
11:13 PM Tom_L: it's all walled up and sheetrocked now
11:14 PM XXCoder: kinda funny, that external picture
11:14 PM XXCoder: looked like someone just said fuck it I want to drive in house everyday and did shitty job of it.
11:14 PM Tom_L: well they did drive a cat in there
11:15 PM XXCoder: lol
11:15 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/house/2.jpg
11:20 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: did you jack the house up when they dug beneath?
11:21 PM Tom_L: no
11:21 PM Tom_L: it stayed on it's original foundation
11:21 PM Tom_L: they staked into it and poured the walls just inside it
11:21 PM Tom_L: probably a dozen posts added under it when they did
11:22 PM Tom_L: that was a long time ago
11:22 PM Tom_L: still no cracks or leaks
11:24 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/house/9.jpg
11:25 PM Tom_L: if you look close you can see 2 of them behind the drain tile and plastic
11:27 PM Tom_L: the walls vary between 12 and 15" thick
11:32 PM hazzy-dev: Tom_L: That is pretty neat! I thought about digging our crawlspace out and making a cellar (its already about 5ft so would not have to remove that much) but I went up instead :)
11:32 PM XXCoder: nice way to expand yeah
11:35 PM Tom_L: at the time it was cheaper to dig than go up
11:36 PM Tom_L: easier to heat/cool too
11:38 PM Tom_L: nobody does that around here anymore and at the time, only one guy did
11:39 PM Tom_L: several years after i did mine another company was doing one a ways from me and they jacked that one up but it fell into the hole
11:40 PM nallar is now known as Ross
11:54 PM hazzy-dev: oopsie how do you explain that? "well, umm, sorry sir, things did not go as planed, afraid we buried your house"
11:55 PM CaptHindsight: happens all the time
11:55 PM CaptHindsight: what insurance is for