#linuxcnc Logs

May 26 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:47 AM fragalot: hi
12:53 AM gloops: lathe slide welding appears to have been a success fragalot
12:54 AM fragalot: sweet
12:54 AM gloops: or at least, the metal has fused and there are no visible cracks, not actually run a tool in it yet
12:54 AM fragalot: did it not warp too much
12:54 AM hazzy-dev: gn8
12:55 AM gloops: doesnt seem to have, the central bolt was in a machined bore, tapped back in nicely, (bore had crack right up to it)
12:55 AM gloops: might need a bit of flattening to sit back on the ways right
12:57 AM gloops: and it might just fall to pieces first time i tighten a tool up, but weld looks ok, really easy to weld
01:00 AM fragalot: lol
01:02 AM gloops: when i was about 18 an old welder took me to help him weld something - a casting, set this little both up with curtains and a sheet accross the bottom, tbh i was getting pretty worried, he didnt want anyone interrupting us...
01:02 AM gloops: but that was to keep the drafts out
01:03 AM gloops: booth
01:04 AM gloops: no cold drafts, keep it just so there is some colour in it, weld it in a series of small blobs, dont try any runs that will crack it
01:25 AM CaptHindsight: I'm doing similar tomorrow
01:25 AM CaptHindsight: catching up on past due projects
01:25 AM gloops: cast cracked CaptHindsight?
01:25 AM hazzy-dev: gloops: What rod/wire did you use? I hear nickel leaves a non brittle weld in CI
01:25 AM CaptHindsight: probably run out of gas Monday since it's a holiday
01:25 AM hazzy-dev: That always how it goes ...
01:26 AM gloops: yes nickel rods, i got them off ebay, local supplier doesnt stock them anymore, well only in large boxes
01:26 AM hazzy-dev: Good to hear it worked!
01:26 AM gloops: sticky to weld with, but once you get an arc it all flows extremely easily
01:27 AM hazzy-dev: I have had decent luck welding with regular mig wire and then annealing, but it can be hit and miss
01:27 AM gloops: hazzy-dev well 'worked' in this case means - hold a cutting tool while cutting, havent actually tried that yet lol
01:28 AM gloops: a lot probably depends on the type of cast iron, which is difficult to ascertain with ancient machines
01:28 AM hazzy-dev: Cutting forces on a lathe are very low, I bet it'll be fine
01:29 AM hazzy-dev: How did it break?
01:30 AM hazzy-dev: Capt: Did you see my progress on the car floors?
01:30 AM gloops: at first i thought id over-tightened the tool, but thinking about it, i think it was the way i had packed the tool, i had a pack under either end, big tightening bolt in the middle - crack
01:31 AM hazzy-dev: Ah, that is very easy to do
01:32 AM gloops: i wouldnt have been so concerned, but the chances of finding spares for this lathe are very small
01:33 AM CaptHindsight: https://i.imgur.com/3BxgSXy.jpg what to cut out and what to replace...
01:34 AM CaptHindsight: that is the question
01:35 AM gloops: i think id weigh that in lol
01:35 AM hazzy-dev: I am going to replace everything that is thin or gone, just showing the progress :)
01:36 AM CaptHindsight: you're up late
01:36 AM CaptHindsight: just got back in myself
01:36 AM hazzy-dev: gloops: this is in better shape than 80% of the corvairs out there!
01:37 AM hazzy-dev: Yeah, I drank too much bear, and then too much coffee xD
01:37 AM hazzy-dev: beer*
01:37 AM gloops: its rotted through and through
01:38 AM CaptHindsight: JT might drink bear, sorry JT just kidding
01:38 AM gloops: how much are these corvairs worth on the road?
01:40 AM hazzy-dev: gloops: only the floors where wet carpet sat, the body is in exceptional condition everywhere else, including original yellow coating on the rockers, which are usually completely shot even on cars with good floors
01:40 AM hazzy-dev: worth 8-12k in driving condition
01:40 AM roycroft: they are unsafe at any speed! donut drive a corvair!
01:41 AM hazzy-dev: This one was valued at 3.5k before I did any work on it (I got it for free)
01:41 AM gloops: you dont see many projects like that here anymore, mainly only on expensive old vintage cars
01:42 AM hazzy-dev: roycroft: That has been disproven many times, the gov studies even showed it was safer than most cars in its class back in the day
01:43 AM hazzy-dev: Have you ever driven one? They handle beautifully!!!
01:44 AM gloops: the back end is probably about 3 seconds out of synch with the front
01:45 AM gloops: stricter MOT tests have probably made us soft over here
01:45 AM gloops: and also the raods being a lot busier, people used to ride about in absolutely anything
01:46 AM gloops: even i think about setting off anywhere now if the car has some kind of fault
01:49 AM hazzy-dev: My neighbor just got back from a month in the UK, she says you all drive much faster than we do here, but that the drivers also tend to be much more skilled. It is scary some of the people who are allowed to drive here, no concept of the physics involved
01:50 AM hazzy-dev: Ok, gonna try and sleep again
01:50 AM hazzy-dev: gn8
01:50 AM gloops: well, i gave up with bikes, you need eyes up your a** for urban driving here, everybody wants to get one car in front
01:51 AM gloops: goodnight
01:53 AM gloops: also, modern cars are a lot nippier than the old ones, if you floored an old escort you were doing 60 in about 20 seconds, a small 1 litre turbo these kids are driving now - much quicker
01:54 AM fragalot: about 11 seconds
01:55 AM gloops: makes all the difference when youre in the middle of a busy town driving like youre on the xbox
01:55 AM fragalot: hazzy-dev: but yes, the UK does appear to have a higher average speed limit on roads that really shouldn't have that speed limit
01:55 AM fragalot: at least, that's what it feels like to me when driving down some of the roads :P
01:56 AM fragalot: "oh look a blind crest, better to 60mph here"
01:59 AM gloops: i saw an old beetle get hit, i mean it looked ok, nice shiny paint, no real rust visible - the front end literally disintegrated, there was was nothing left
01:59 AM fragalot: who cares about what the car looks like, as long as the passengers come out alright
01:59 AM gloops: i dont want to be sat in somethin like that, cars are cheap these days
02:00 AM gloops: fragalot what i mean is, these ancient relics might sit right and look solid, but theyre not
02:00 AM fragalot: indeed they are not
02:00 AM gloops: anything hits them they collapse
02:00 AM fragalot: there's also no engineering to make sure that when they do collapse, that it happens in a controlled manner
02:03 AM gloops: old brakes, old steering suspension, a thin layer of polished rust between you and the next oncoming truck
02:03 AM fragalot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7o2MB6DuKk <= 1 minute in
02:03 AM fragalot: even if they were brand new, but built to the old spec they would be absolute shite in a crash
02:04 AM gloops: yep
02:05 AM Deejay: moin
02:05 AM gloops: probably not so important to americans who live out in the sticks, they only see 2 other cars a day
02:07 AM tiwake: no, such a person would own at least a half-dozen cars themselves
02:12 AM fragalot: I do quite like the modern safety systems though
02:12 AM fragalot: and wish they came as a standard on ALL cars, not just the non-baseline ones
02:15 AM gloops: they will eventually
02:16 AM gloops: they put measures in place to get old cars off the road, you cant really just draw a line at a certain age though, half the economy depends on people getting to work in old bangers
02:16 AM gloops: they discourage them with tax and stricter mot tests that kind of thing
02:18 AM gloops: the MOT law is still very vague though, old brakes pass, providing they work as they were intended to work
02:18 AM gloops: there is no set rule for how good brakes should be
02:19 AM fragalot: well there are
02:19 AM fragalot: but those rules evolve
02:20 AM fragalot: and the cars are made with the rules that applied when they were first put into service
02:21 AM gloops: you can get an old cortina through the test, if you drove it youd say wtf theres no brakes! but thats what their brakes were like brand new
02:21 AM gloops: test here only checks the brakes are balanced really
02:23 AM fragalot: same here
02:23 AM gloops: there should be some blanket check for a set minimumm stopping distance at a certain speed
02:23 AM gloops: applied to all cars
02:40 AM XXCoder: yaa
02:56 AM sync: there is gloops
02:56 AM XXCoder: yep! been a feature for few cars
02:56 AM XXCoder: speed to wall it stops before hit
03:00 AM gloops: doesnt apply to old cars though?
03:00 AM sync: look in your highway code booklet
03:00 AM XXCoder: new feature for old car?
03:00 AM sync: that is the standard applied
03:01 AM XXCoder: for proper safety, one car length per 10 mph if I recall right
03:01 AM gloops: anyway im off to try and catch the barber
03:01 AM XXCoder: why? your barber nees trapping?
03:01 AM XXCoder: bah
03:30 AM miss0r: Woke up this morning, still pissed about the rag roll holder....
03:30 AM XXCoder: what happened to it?
04:32 AM miss0r: XXCoder: I got one that was too big for the rolls that I've bought. Which results in me not having enough room to mount it on the wall
04:32 AM miss0r: XXCoder: So, I just wasted ~120eur on nothing
04:33 AM XXCoder: cant retyurn it?
04:37 AM miss0r: not realy. Its a buisness to buisness deal..
04:38 AM XXCoder: :( sucks
04:38 AM miss0r: its a damn waste is what it is
04:40 AM miss0r: well, I need to go get some garden supplies
04:44 AM RyanS: are these v wheels this expensive in your areas? https://au.rs-online.com/web/p/linear-slides-guide-wheels-slewing-rings/2590101/ $50...
04:45 AM XXCoder: miss0r: maybe find another use for it later
04:45 AM XXCoder: or ebay
05:26 AM RyanS: this is wierd stepper online don't seem to sell leadshine drivers any more
05:58 AM hazzy-dev1 is now known as hazzy-dev
05:58 AM hazzy1 is now known as hazzy
07:35 AM gloops: well thats 3 machines fixed, not much left on the list to do, my 4 axis project could be starting sooner than i thought
07:50 AM Spirit532 is now known as Guest35602
07:50 AM Spirit532__ is now known as Spirit532
08:13 AM miss0r: gloops: You still need to make a photoshoot
08:15 AM SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuJQSAiODqI - related
08:15 AM SpeedEvil: (not really)
08:16 AM miss0r: I was doing gardening... Running the wheet wacker... Then in roles a thunderstorm
08:17 AM miss0r: Meh, that is what i get for doing gardening... No wonder I don't do it very often
08:17 AM miss0r: but when I do: Thunderstorm
08:22 AM miss0r: sweet mother of god.. The lighting in here is flickering at the moment...
09:14 AM unterhausen: so anyone happy with their kernel build on stretch can give me a link to a recipe ? I'll post it on the forum
09:17 AM JT-Shop: recipe synaptic package manager, search for preempt, install
09:44 AM unterhausen: I was talking about the most recent kernel. 4.16? I want to build a kernel, my machine is a bit weird
09:45 AM unterhausen: Tom-itx and someone else were building it yesterday, I just lost track
09:57 AM Tom_L: one sec and i'll post the script file
09:57 AM Tom_L: it was horrible on the J1900 though, hazzy had better results
10:05 AM Tom_itx: http://paste.debian.net/1026684/
10:07 AM Tom_L: just run that and wait and wait and wait and...
10:08 AM Tom_L: first time i let it run overnight on the J1900, i5 took maybe a couple hrs
10:24 AM unterhausen: hopefully it won't take too long on my xeon, it's not too slow. Might have horrible RT performance though.
10:25 AM Tom_L: i found a link to undo mine without reinstalling debian
10:25 AM Tom_L: you edit a local grub copy then update-grub
10:28 AM Tom_L: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/198003/set-default-kernel-in-grub?utm_medium=organic&utm_source=google_rich_qa&utm_campaign=google_rich_qa
10:28 AM Tom_L: follow that to undo it
10:29 AM Tom_L: (if needed)
10:29 AM unterhausen: when you build a new kernel, you should have an option to run the old one at boot. Is that what you are talking about?
10:30 AM Tom_L: i didn't get the option that i recall
10:30 AM Tom_L: so i reverted back to 4.9.xx
10:30 AM unterhausen: maybe you have to doodle some settings before you reboot into the new kernel :)
10:30 AM Tom_L: could be
10:30 AM unterhausen: or maybe it just went by too fast
10:31 AM Tom_L: was my first kernel build so i'm just happy it worked
10:32 AM unterhausen: Well, I have built kernels hundreds of times, and many of those times are because it didn't work
10:33 AM unterhausen: we used to have some low-power computers with a weird cpu that took a really long time to build a kernel, but the stock ones were too slow
10:35 AM unterhausen: posted your script https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/34618-building-kernel-4-16-8-on-debian-stretch if you want to claim credit or disavow knowledge
10:36 AM Tom_L: if anybody should get credit give it to pcw
10:41 AM unterhausen: once I figure out how to diddle grub2, I will put that in there too
10:41 AM Tom_L: you may want to say it's preempt
10:42 AM unterhausen: I put your grub link in there, but it's confusing, what did you actually do?
10:42 AM Tom_L: follow those 4 steps for grub and it works great
10:42 AM unterhausen: can I edit the title?
10:42 AM Tom_L: no clue, i'm never on the forum
10:42 AM Tom_L: if you're the author you probably can
10:43 AM Tom_L: basically you find the 2 kernel names, the old and new
10:43 AM unterhausen: I don't even see how to edit the post
10:43 AM Tom_L: the first 2 steps get you the names of those kernels
10:44 AM Tom_L: then you edit the LOCAL grub not grub.cfg
10:44 AM Tom_L: and do the update
10:44 AM Tom_L: mine said GRUB_DEFAULT-0 and i replaced the 0 with a similar line shown just above that in the link
10:45 AM Tom_L: below*
10:45 AM unterhausen: okay, once I do it I will post better instructions on that post. Or someone else can
10:45 AM Tom_L: it's real easy but i didn't take step by step notes
10:46 AM unterhausen: Still have to set up the computer, basement is a mess right now
10:50 AM Tom_L: pcw said the script should also work on ubuntu and mint
10:50 AM Tom_L: you could mention that
10:50 AM Tom_L: i'm off..
10:52 AM Roguish: Tom_L: hey, just curious, but why are you guys building kernels?
10:59 AM unterhausen: the 4.16.8 kernel is supposed to work better
11:03 AM unterhausen: I was under the mistaken impression that rtprempt was mainline kernel now
11:13 AM unterhausen: I just built a bicycle wheel and the tension is about 160kgf, supposed to be 122 kgf max. Oops
11:34 AM hazzy-dev: Roguish: The 4.16.8 kernel is much better on my machine, overall more snappy and latency has not gone over 31097 and the test has been running since yesterday afternoon
11:34 AM hazzy-dev: It used to be about 75000
11:34 AM hazzy-dev: This is on an old 2.4GHz i5 laptop ...
11:43 AM fragalot: Hey
11:44 AM hazzy-dev: RyanS: Those bearings have various designations, RM2-2RS should be equivalent to the W2X bearing you linked
11:45 AM hazzy-dev: The once designated as RM2-2RS seems to be cheaper in my experience
11:45 AM hazzy-dev: I get them from VXB here, they are fine quality and very cheap, like $5 each
11:46 AM fragalot: so.. anyone got an EU source for a 55° dovetail cutter that's at least 25mm high?
11:50 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wood-Turning-Vintage-Lathe-and-Accessories/232775589283?
11:50 AM fragalot: syyl: have you got a good source for 55° dovetail cutters that can cut a 25mm high dovetail? :P
11:50 AM syyl: nope :D
11:51 AM gloops: drawers are better than the lathe
11:51 AM syyl: i would need one for rebuilding schaublin supports
11:51 AM fragalot: I can only find them in china sites, or amazon, which isn't much better
11:51 AM fragalot: and I don't feel like buying a 60° and regrinding it to 55 :P
11:52 AM syyl: a tool&cutter grinderservice will happily grind you one from solid hss or carbide
11:52 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-PRESTO-25mm-x-60-Dovetail-Cutter-HSS-12mm-shank/263712768981?
11:52 AM gloops: unlucky...
11:53 AM fragalot: syyl: suggestions for those?
11:53 AM fragalot: gloops: 60° is easy to find
11:53 AM syyl: i have my stuff ground via hoffmann tools
11:54 AM fragalot: yea.. They don't sell to 'nobodies' like me that doesn't have a VAT number
11:56 AM Roguish: hazzy-dev: i get it. but so many seem incredibly concerned about latency and all when running little steppers on 80-20 aluminum framed home-build machines.
11:56 AM gloops: only 45 and 60s
11:56 AM syyl: or you find a kinda local grinding shop
11:56 AM syyl: if youre not out in nowhereistian, there should be one
11:58 AM gloops: https://www.cutwel.co.uk/milling/milling-cutters/hss-co8-milling-cutters/dovetail-cutters-type-ace-weldon-ml112-series
11:58 AM fragalot: yeah I found one on the other side of the country :P
11:58 AM gloops: only 45/60 anyway
12:02 PM fragalot: Right, should have a price by monday I think
12:02 PM fragalot: either that, or I get told off twice :-)
12:03 PM fragalot: really curious how much it costs to get a custom cutter made
12:03 PM gloops: is this for the manual mill ways fragalot or have you got that sorted now?
12:04 PM fragalot: still working on that one
12:05 PM fragalot: I forgot to check the angle on the dovetails & incorrectly assumed it was 60°
12:06 PM fragalot: so set it up on the mill, put an angle gauge against it to make sure.. And tore it down again to try again next week because who the hell uses 55° :D
12:06 PM fragalot: anyway - back to painting the cellar.
12:06 PM gloops: disheartening but just one of those many things
12:07 PM fragalot: not the end of the world - all i'm losing is time
12:07 PM fragalot: and money for the cutter, but that's fine
12:08 PM gloops: yeah it will come together
12:09 PM miss0r: Today i've gotten so many mosquito bites, I've lost my depth perception it seems
12:09 PM miss0r: o.0
12:09 PM miss0r: itching all over, sweating like a mofo, feeling faint ect... I think that is enough garden work for today
12:10 PM miss0r: fragalot: how did your machinist visit go?
12:12 PM fragalot: miss0r: Great, except for the non-standard cutter he thought he had that he doesn't have :P
12:13 PM * fragalot => back to the abyss that is the cellar
12:13 PM miss0r: I was fearing that'd be the case
12:13 PM hazzy-dev: Roguish: In my experience latency is more of a problem for somebody with a cheap machine which likely has undersized steppers and all-thread screws. Even with very good latency, if all you have is a parport it can be a real challenge just getting to reasonable cutting speeds, much less decent rapids
12:13 PM hazzy-dev: For those of us that can afford ballscrews and/or mesa cards, latency is very rarely a concern at all. In fact, I don't think I have ever even bothered to checked the latency on my actual machines :)
12:18 PM gloops: how fast are you moving then hazzy?
12:32 PM hazzy-dev: 300ipm on X & Y, 250ipm on Z
12:33 PM hazzy-dev: It will go 400ipm, but my heart rate goes up to much
12:34 PM hazzy-dev: 16x microstepping with 1200oz-in NEMA 34 motors
12:36 PM gloops: not bad
12:37 PM hazzy-dev: No, not too bad for a small mill
12:39 PM hazzy-dev: I am working on a Mazak VTC-41 that rapids at 800 ipm with the old mazatrol, with LCNC and masa cards it is going to be FAST, hoping for 1200ipm
12:40 PM pcw_home: way too fast to reach the Estop button when things go wrong...
12:40 PM hazzy-dev: What e-stop? ;)
12:40 PM pcw_home: :-)
12:41 PM hazzy-dev: It is a moving column machine (table is stationary), so it is a bit scary the amount of mass that is moving around
12:42 PM pcw_home: does it have brakes?
12:44 PM gloops: ive got mine doing 200ipm apart from x axis which is close though, tbh im not so concerned with going a lot faster
12:44 PM hazzy-dev: Yes, and some sort of hydraulic dampers, I am still not sure how is all works together
01:46 PM CaptHindsight: the e-stop is spring loaded that the operator stands on..
01:46 PM CaptHindsight: when the operator is flung off the e-stop platform the machine will come to a halt
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: machine comes with full suit of body armor and machinists helmet
01:53 PM hazzy-dev: CaptHindsight: I think I should implement that :D
01:54 PM hazzy-dev: These moving column machines are scary, since about half of the total mass is in motion
01:58 PM hazzy-dev: Long ago this machine tipped over. Supposedly there was a large casting on the table, and the machine seemed stable, but when the column went to home (or maybe it was tool change) pos the weight distribution was such that it tipped.
01:58 PM hazzy-dev: It has a badly dented enclosure, so I think the story is true!
02:00 PM SpeedEvil: 'when you confuse IPM and MPH in the settings'
02:01 PM pcw_home: I guess a fixed table design makes sense with very heavy work
02:02 PM hazzy-dev: Yes, that is the idea
02:03 PM hazzy-dev: The enclosure comes off in sections so you can have parts stick out as needed
02:09 PM pcw_home: Ahh large work also
02:09 PM pcw_home: as long as you balance it :-)
02:15 PM * fragalot returns!
02:40 PM unterhausen: I was asked to consult for a trial of a machine that was big enough that the operator booth moved with one of the axes
02:40 PM unterhausen: they wanted me to say there was a fatigue failure
02:40 PM unterhausen: not that the operator ran it into the stops
02:41 PM unterhausen: I suppose the speed has to be limited at the operator booth
02:51 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:57 PM gloops: just watching one of these online petitions about to hit 100k - the point at which the subject must be debated in parliament
02:59 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: And parlimant debates and says 'lol- no'.
03:00 PM gloops: usually yes
03:01 PM gloops: there was one of these petitions to ban trump from the uk - was actually a lively debate, he wasnt banned though
03:03 PM gloops: they have a vote and even if the motion is passed it just triggers another debate, gets kicked down the road and dropped eventually - but there is a small chance, could just stir up enough interest for something to happen
03:28 PM SpeedEvil: yeah
03:31 PM hazzy-dev: They wanted to ban trump from the UK? xD
03:38 PM gloops: yes just the usual shower hazzy, communists, left wing rabble etc
03:41 PM SpeedEvil: you can raise an issue if it gets 100k votes, the government needs to respond
03:47 PM gloops: this one has gone viral https://www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp-free-tommy-robinson?recruiter=23178767&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial.pacific_abi_share_button_ordering_1.abi_featured_fb&utm_term=signature_receipt
03:47 PM gloops: you can see the new signatories at the top, every few seconds
03:48 PM flyback: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Tzumi-VIPRB-5192-Watch-Live-Free-HDTV-On-Smartphones-Tablets/787820397
03:53 PM flyback is now known as phlyback
04:30 PM phlyback is now known as flyback
04:38 PM Tom_L: Roguish, i mostly did it as a test for others in case it might help a marginal motherboard
04:39 PM Tom_L: however on the J1900 it's much worse than the 4.9 stretch has
04:40 PM unterhausen: I should have put my thread in computers and OS
04:47 PM Deejay: gn8
04:47 PM Tom_L: unterhausen did it help yours or have you tried it yet
04:51 PM unterhausen: Tom_L, I gotta install the OS first. Basement is a bit of a mess right now, need to make enough space to set up the comp
05:56 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMY06dzf7UA
06:56 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L: what are you doing testing different preempt kernels for old pc's?
07:08 PM * JT-Shop goes to pick up some poop from the chicken yard
08:26 PM ziper: how bad do you think these are https://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-81-PCS-GRADE-B-GAGE-GAUGE-BLOCK-SET-NIST-CERTIFICATE-TRACEABLE-NEW/331694814556?hash=item4d3a8d355c:g:hpcAAOSwT3haDyC-
08:30 PM jthornton: look up what Grade B means
08:31 PM ziper: do you think they actually meet specs I mean
08:36 PM jthornton: it
08:36 PM jthornton: 's a $100 gauge set, I bet it's close
08:36 PM hazzy-dev: I bet those are just fine for shop use, shars stuff is usually pretty decent
08:38 PM ziper: they really made a mistake putting ' so close to the enter key ddint they
08:48 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, someone a while back said that version was better than the one shipping with stretch so i just thought i'd see how it was on what i have
08:48 PM Tom_L: turns out not so good on J1900
08:49 PM Tom_L: hazzy is having good luck with it on his
09:04 PM Tom_L: and the script makes it easy to build it