#linuxcnc Logs
May 22 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:37 AM russtuff: could someone explain to me the benefit (if any) of controlling a VFD for spindle via modbus versus the analong 0-10v method?
12:40 AM russtuff: as a background, i just moved from a parallel port configuration to a mesa configuration. in the former, i can control the spindle via modbus. in mesa, i'm having trouble getting it working and i've forgotten why i'm not just going with 0-10v.
12:44 AM MarcelineVQ: one that comes to mind is you can monitor the current spindle speed via modbus, or at least as well as the vfd can
12:46 AM russtuff: thank you. i can also monitor load (current draw) within linuxcnc, plus the status of several parameters.... i guess that's a good reason.
12:47 AM russtuff: i'm making a list :)
12:58 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
12:58 AM IchGucksLive: its getting a nice but thundery day here in germany
12:59 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder, online ?
12:59 AM fragalot: Hey
12:59 AM IchGucksLive: morning fragalot
12:59 AM fragalot: miss0r: just got great news from my sister. win10 april update shat the bed and it doesn't boot anymore \o/
12:59 AM IchGucksLive: russtuff, online
01:00 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot, thats MS
01:00 AM fragalot: yup
01:00 AM IchGucksLive: you always need a Linux to boot Win
01:02 AM fragalot: especially since the change to win10 it's become incredibly frustrating for sysadmins
01:02 AM fragalot: because they are in the middle of transferring settings over from the old style control panel to the new "lolyerdumb!" system
01:02 AM IchGucksLive: im off this game i dident see a real win10 untill now
01:02 AM fragalot: so it's incredibly difficult to find the setting you need
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: noone asks me to repair as they know im off MS since decade
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: and now im off 2 Garden
01:04 AM russtuff: are you asking if i'm online? i am.
01:11 AM fragalot: he's not anymore :P
01:14 AM russtuff: comes in for the role calls eh? ;)
01:14 AM russtuff: time to hit the sack.
02:14 AM Deejay: moin
03:17 AM asdfasd: from version 2.4.3 to latest, what is recommended, update or clean install and copy configuration?
03:27 AM RyanS: do I need IP rated limit switches for plasma, or basic microswiches will do?
04:03 AM miss0r: RyanS: I would recommend you getting IP rated switches
04:03 AM miss0r: Possibly inductive switches
04:11 AM RyanS: does dust crud up the mechanism and give you false 'readings'?
04:12 AM miss0r: it might do that on an inductive switch, actualy
04:12 AM miss0r: but it certainly will do that on some point on an open microswitch
04:14 AM miss0r: I would consider something like; EAN: 3389110214383
04:15 AM RyanS: what's that a part number?
04:17 AM miss0r: yeah
04:17 AM Loetmichel: *hrhr*... our external "Dr.Ing." EE (nickname "Dr. Bedenkenheimer") just called i should please give him some pinout and footprint onf an RJ45 socked on a dell notebook mainboard so he can "design a impedance correct" adapter to flexprint... i told him: "will do but thats not neccessary. Gbit ethernet is perfectly happy even with telephone wire if the distance is shorter than a couple feet"
04:17 AM Loetmichel: :-)
04:17 AM miss0r: RyanS: Just google that number. It is a schneider limit switch
04:18 AM RyanS: i'm trying to choose a switch for the breakaway torch mount, but need something small
04:18 AM miss0r: Then get an inductive switch
04:19 AM miss0r: I can recommend this Omron model, its M5: 4548583405981
04:19 AM miss0r: sensing distance is 1.2mm
04:23 AM miss0r: RyanS: It doesn't get much smaller than that
04:24 AM miss0r: Anyway. My trip to germany starts in 30 minuts. I need to go pack up. See you guys around
04:41 AM Spirit532__ is now known as Spirit532
05:38 AM jthornton: morning
05:39 AM XXCoder: yo
05:45 AM asdfasd: from version 2.4.3 to latest, what is recommended, update or clean install and copy configuration?
05:48 AM Tom_L: morning
05:51 AM jthornton: morning
05:52 AM jthornton: asdfasd: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/updating-linuxcnc.html
05:52 AM Tom_L: asdfasd, there was a small change from 2.4 to 2.5 or 2.6 but i don't recall what it was
05:53 AM Tom_L: minor config tweak iirc
05:55 AM Tom_L: source locations moved too iirc
06:00 AM asdfasd: thanks for reply, it seems new fresh install would be easier
06:00 AM Tom_L: i've done upgrades all the way to 2.7.13 without a problem
06:01 AM asdfasd: Im not good with linux at all
08:32 AM IchGucksLive: hi
08:32 AM IchGucksLive: lots of thunder ariound
08:32 AM IchGucksLive: we got red alert for this evening
08:33 AM IchGucksLive: asdfasd, why at all are you upgreding
08:33 AM IchGucksLive: asdfasd, is there a need for you
08:36 AM IchGucksLive: im off heavy ligtning now hedding my way
09:46 AM gregcnc_: so there is a thread about that kickstarter mill turn machine
09:46 AM gregcnc_: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/starting-small-machine-tool-manufacturing-business-350441/
09:47 AM gregcnc_: this is the best reply http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/starting-small-machine-tool-manufacturing-business-350441/index5.html#post3177063
10:11 AM gloops: fools have sent big 90 degree v bit instead of 130 degree
10:13 AM gregcnc_: fools?
10:13 AM gregcnc_: https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/15/techshop-shuts-down-all-u-s-locations-declares-bankruptcy/
10:15 AM synfinatic: didn't someone say they were going to be re-opening some TS locations?
10:15 AM gloops: yes, the fools who showed a 130 degree cutter in the ad
10:15 AM gregcnc_: sounds like resurrection failed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TechShop
10:16 AM gloops: not going to bother sending it back for a few quid am i
10:16 AM gloops: it will be useful im sure, but i still havent got a 130 cutter
10:18 AM synfinatic: oh, the guy ended up creating a new company: https://theshop.build/
10:19 AM synfinatic: tried calling it techshop 2.0 but the bankrupt company did a trademark violation. /sigh
10:19 AM gregcnc_: so what will this guy do different that will keep them afloat? did he buy the assets for pennies?
10:20 AM synfinatic: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
10:21 AM synfinatic: i remember looking at their pricing model and deciding it was better to buy my own lathe & mill
10:21 AM synfinatic: just being able to jump into the garage for 30min and do things rather then driving 15min each way was a huge win
10:24 AM gregcnc_: they don't actually have an equipment list, do they have more than one of each machine?
10:24 AM synfinatic: iirc, they only had one of each for big machines
10:55 AM gloops: so, when i stripped my planer, i was stupid enough to misplace a few key parts, however i was smart enough only to lose the parts from 1 side, the other side i still attached, therefore can copy them
11:22 AM skunkworks: russtuff_: +/-10v control of the spindle is realtime.
11:57 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
12:26 PM IchGucksLive: im off GN8
12:37 PM * Tom_L blows the lunch whistle
12:38 PM Tom_L: Beachbumpete1, what's up?
12:41 PM Loetmichel: *GNHIHI* just swapped the speakers on the left side in my BMW convertible to new 2 way 30Wrms JBLs... pulled out: 1 50Wrms JBL front with frozen bass, 1 jbl 2way back with frozen bass, 1 jbl 5" bass thown into the side near the belt spindle, not fixed and connected in parallel with the original with telephone wire and some insulation tape. No solder or crimp plugs, just wrapped around the
12:41 PM Loetmichel: original terminals. No wonder that was not that loud and very shitty sound quality. I am VERY curious what i will find on the other side when i get to it ;)
12:50 PM phaxx: telephone wire for car speakers, nice.
12:50 PM phaxx: I've been pulling lots of domestic wire out of a car I'm working on.
12:50 PM Tom_L: hey, it works for the phone...
12:51 PM gregcnc_: like solid 14AWG?
12:51 PM phaxx: nonsense like the interior dome light using one conductor out of three in a long bit of interior domestic cable, the other two just sitting there unused and dangling.
12:51 PM Loetmichel: i am not angry aboutnthe telephone wire... but about the constant non-use if any reliable connectors
12:52 PM Loetmichel: not solid 14awg. more like stranded 22 awg.
12:53 PM gregcnc_: phone wire yes, i thought domestic meant house electric
12:53 PM Loetmichel: ah, sorry. thought you meant me
12:54 PM gregcnc_: I have to get around to building some horn cabinets for a set of sony car audio speakers i've had for years
01:24 PM gloops: lol, have to smile when you look through stuff on ebay
01:25 PM gloops: 'celtic manor house wine rack'
01:26 PM gloops: the celts did have wine, they didnt have manor houses though, or glass bottles
01:32 PM Rab: "Contemporary traditional" is the term of art for that hideous class of home decor which attempts to evoke culture without correctness.
01:35 PM gloops: this is actually some local bodging old get in his shed, he started out selling 'fruit baskets' which was 4 boards nailed together with some laths on the bottom and 'fruit' stencil rolled on the side
01:35 PM gloops: i just glanced at his ebay - 8000+ sales
01:36 PM gloops: simple and deceptive works
01:36 PM gregcnc_: does it matter if people buy and are happy?
01:36 PM miss0r|laptop: Greetings from sunny germany ;)
01:36 PM gloops: gregcnc i read the feedback on his celtic wine racks, the customers are ecstatic - £240 each nailed boards
01:37 PM gregcnc_: my point exactly
01:37 PM gregcnc_: good work if you can get it
01:39 PM gloops: yes, we need to get some
01:41 PM Loetmichel: miss0r|laptop: nice, where are you?
01:41 PM miss0r|laptop: At hotel schnarr in Celle
01:42 PM Loetmichel: hihi
01:42 PM Loetmichel: how long?
01:42 PM miss0r|laptop: I just had a nice schnitzel buffet at a local restaurant
01:42 PM Loetmichel: i'll be back in celle next saturday ;)
01:42 PM Loetmichel: my mother in law lives there
01:42 PM miss0r|laptop: Hehe, I'll only be here tonight and tomorrow night, then I drive the 6 hours back home
01:42 PM Loetmichel: bummer
01:43 PM miss0r|laptop: assuming I don't mess up the job. I've left thursday as a 'buffer' day, so I can stay and work a day more if needed. But I think I should be plenty done tomorrow
01:43 PM miss0r|laptop: Yeah, i would expect you to buy me a beer ;)
01:44 PM miss0r|laptop: hell, I'll buy you one, just to have someone who speaks a language I do as well ;)
02:03 PM Tom_L: what would i be missing if i try to add a sim to the desktop and it doesn't copy the files or create the icon for it?
02:04 PM Tom_L: running a full stretch install i installed preempt rt on
02:04 PM Tom_L: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/jvDN76Pq7Z/
02:04 PM Tom_L: using that as a guide
02:12 PM Loetmichel: hmpf... my sister just called: she made ANOTHER cad PC for a customer after his old one died and she sold him a new one... which lived one day before dying... this time she went there and installed it. the moment she plugged in the Monitors she saw small sparks... ANOTHER mainboard and GPU dead... (and not the cheap kind)... turns out he made a "switch contraption" to save power on standby
02:12 PM Loetmichel: when he doesent need the second monitor... and cut the earth wire in the process... THAT was an expensive "energy saver" ... some people... ;)
02:14 PM Rab: Expensive for the customer, I hope?
02:27 PM gregcnc_: don't you have powerstrips over there?
02:34 PM Loetmichel: Rab: of course
02:34 PM Loetmichel: If i have understood her correctly the customer is now out 1200++ eur for 2 boards and two GPUs... and STILL has no working cad station AND nobody knows if the Screens survived it
02:35 PM Loetmichel: gregcnc_: seems he was to cheap to buy a power strip with switch.
02:35 PM miss0r|laptop: That sounds somewhat off... But it just goes to show, its a good idea to attach all cables, before connecting the power
02:36 PM Loetmichel: yes. but who would have calculated in the stupidity of the customer cutting the earth wire when making that switch thing?
02:37 PM Loetmichel: (of which existence he told her AFTER the second PC was dead)
02:37 PM Loetmichel: and IIRC DVI and DP are "hotpluggable"
02:44 PM miss0r|laptop: Sure. most connectors for the are hotpluggable. But if the ground connection is faulty, and you dont hit the sheild to sheild percectly/hit sheild to a connector inside the plug first, you are going to have a bad day
02:45 PM miss0r|laptop: ANywho. I'll call it a night. I have to get up early, and try this hotel breakfast - I'm told its quite excellent here. See you guys around
03:13 PM fragalot: Hi
03:14 PM Deejay: hi
04:32 PM Deejay: gn8
05:54 PM JT-Shop: .weather
05:54 PM theCockerel: Yahoo! Weather - Poplar Bluff, MO, US: Mostly Cloudy, 30°C (86°F), Humidity: 50%, Light air 1.8m/s (↙)
05:58 PM phipli: .weather
05:58 PM theCockerel: Yahoo! Weather - Derby, England, GB: Clear, 11°C (51°F), Humidity: 78%, Moderate breeze 6.3m/s (↙)
05:58 PM phipli: but also bed time
05:58 PM phipli: night
05:59 PM Tom_L: .weather Derby Ks
05:59 PM theCockerel: Yahoo! Weather - Derby, KS, US: Mostly Sunny, 29°C (84°F), Humidity: 51%, Moderate breeze 6.3m/s (↑)
06:02 PM JT-Shop: night
06:03 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop,
06:03 PM Tom_L: have you run lcnc on stretch yet?
06:03 PM JT-Shop: just a little testing with the sim
06:04 PM JT-Shop: I'll have to see what the second hard drive is in the plasma
06:04 PM Tom_L: i can't get sim to work at all using the pastebin directions
06:04 PM Tom_L: wondering what i'm missing
06:05 PM Tom_L: my mill config comes up fine when the 7i80 card is plugged in
06:05 PM Tom_L: it won't copy the sim files or make an icon
06:05 PM Tom_L: running mate desktop
06:06 PM Tom_L: 2.7.13
06:10 PM JT-Shop: I have debian 7 running on the plasma, but I have a debian 9 hard drive downstairs
06:10 PM JT-Shop: what pastebin directions?
06:10 PM Tom_L: the ones you gave me
06:10 PM Tom_L: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/jvDN76Pq7Z/
06:11 PM JT-Shop: I can plug that hard drive in the morning and test it out
06:12 PM Tom_L: i'm just trying to figure out what's missing
06:12 PM Tom_L: apparently lcvette got some files from somebody to get gmocappy working
06:12 PM Tom_L: i'll get those next time i see him
06:12 PM JT-Shop: ok
06:12 PM Tom_L: but for now none of the sims will install
06:12 PM JT-Shop: you trying to run the gmoocappy sim?
06:12 PM Tom_L: not even axis
06:12 PM Tom_L: yes
06:13 PM JT-Shop: odd
06:13 PM Tom_L: well, any right now
06:13 PM Tom_L: just to verify it's working
06:13 PM Tom_L: my mill config comes right up
06:17 PM JT-Shop: I'll have a look in the morning, about time to relax now
06:18 PM Tom_L: i thought it could be a permissions thing but i checked that
06:32 PM Tom_L: i can copy another config to the config directory and it will create an icon for it but not the sims
06:36 PM JT-Shop: odd
06:36 PM JT-Shop: I'll test it in the morning, heading in now
06:46 PM Tom_L: ok, thanks
07:26 PM rene-dev_: just tried 4.16.8 rt preempt, much much better than the rt kernel that comes with stretch.
07:28 PM Tom_L: what does that load on?
07:29 PM rene-dev_: tested on a core2duo that runs the router, and a J1900 celeron that runs the mill
07:30 PM Tom_L: what os
07:30 PM rene-dev_: stretch
07:35 PM Tom_L: not in the synaptic package manager.. how do you find it?
07:35 PM rene-dev_: kernel.org
07:37 PM Tom_L: i think that's above my pay grade :)
07:39 PM rene-dev_: I can write up some instructions, its really not complicated
07:39 PM Tom_L: nothing is once you've done it a few times
07:39 PM Tom_L: that would be great for those that like living on the edge
07:40 PM CaptHindsight: preempt_rt jitter does seem to vary much from kernel to kernel
07:40 PM Tom_L: i'd load it right now if i could find it
07:40 PM MarcelineVQ: rene-dev_: I'd be interested in having those instructions of you've the time
07:41 PM CaptHindsight: I have lost track, if Wheezy LTS ends next week what's next for the LiveCD?
07:44 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc_: still around?
07:45 PM CaptHindsight: oh is the latest LiveCD already Stretch?
07:46 PM Tom_L: still test
07:46 PM Tom_L: i think
07:46 PM Tom_L: there was a recent update to 2.7.13
07:46 PM Tom_L: http://www.linuxcnc.org/testing-stretch-rtpreempt/
07:47 PM CaptHindsight: I recall that Seb said RTAI v5 was working some time ago..
07:48 PM Tom_L: wheezy is still the latest on the mainstream page
07:48 PM CaptHindsight: but maybe there was some other issue maybe with Stretch
07:48 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, just checked
07:48 PM Tom_L: i'm just playing with stretch
07:48 PM Tom_L: not using it
07:49 PM Tom_L: that's why i'd go ahead and try that kernel
07:50 PM CaptHindsight: we just use the Debian ISO's for comparing results to RTAI kernels made here
07:51 PM CaptHindsight: sometimes we get a odd APU and motherboard combo and wonder if the jitter is due to BIOS or kernel issues
07:52 PM Tom_shop: Unable to locate package linux-image-4.16.8-rt
07:52 PM Tom_shop: :)
07:52 PM Tom_shop: worth a try
07:52 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: know any electropolishers for SS? larger sheet parts, well few ft x few ft
07:52 PM CaptHindsight: not entire plane wings :)
07:52 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure
07:53 PM Tom_L: there are alot of metal finishers here
07:53 PM rene-dev_: Im running 4 machines with stretch and the rt kernel from the repo... no issues whatsoever.
07:53 PM CaptHindsight: we still have a few
07:54 PM Tom_L: http://www.metalfinishingco.com/
07:54 PM Tom_L: they take up a couple blocks or three
07:55 PM Tom_L: https://www.manta.com/c/mmcv5f9/air-capitol-plating-incorporated
07:56 PM Tom_L: those are the 2 big ones i know of
08:04 PM Tom_L: rene-dev, do you have to build the kernel first?
08:04 PM rene-dev_: yes, and patch the sources with the rt preempt patch.
08:05 PM rene-dev_: its only a few commands. if you are interested I can document that.
08:05 PM Tom_itx: https://medium.freecodecamp.org/building-and-installing-the-latest-linux-kernel-from-source-6d8df5345980
08:06 PM Tom_L: i was just looking at that
08:06 PM Tom_L: yeah i'd give it a whirl
08:07 PM rene-dev_: yeah, exept that there is one additional step to patch it
08:08 PM rene-dev_: http://cdn.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/4.16/patch-4.16.8-rt3.patch.xz
08:09 PM rene-dev_: xzcat ../patch-4.16.8-rt3.patch.xz | patch -p1
08:09 PM rene-dev_: after the make olddefconfig, in menuconfig select
08:09 PM rene-dev_: select Processor type and features -> Preemption Model -> Fully Preemptible Kernel (RT)
08:22 PM pcw_home: the 4.16 kernels seem noticeably better than anything since 4.1 on older hardware
08:24 PM rene-dev_: yeah, I was really suprised. after some initial gpu problems, its now a lot better.
08:24 PM rene-dev_: are you aware of any instructions on how to compile them? if not I will put something together
08:25 PM pcw_home: i have a script
08:25 PM pcw_home: not a very smart one though
08:26 PM rene-dev_: would be cool to have a package, as they are really a great improvement for many users. but thats a jepler question...
08:28 PM pcw_home: https://pastebin.com/Z10JPWLa
08:28 PM rene-dev_: especially those who use this as a excuse to run some ancient ubuntu version, which then needs to be supported...
08:29 PM rene-dev_: ah
08:29 PM rene-dev_: mine is based on the config in /boot from the old kernel
08:30 PM rene-dev_: then make olddefconfig
08:30 PM rene-dev_: then change to Fully Preemptible Kernel in menuconfig
08:30 PM pcw_home: yeah I'm not sure how that works but _something_ remembees the previous config
08:30 PM pcw_home: remembers
08:31 PM Tom_L: i don't think i'll try it without a step by step :)
08:32 PM pcw_home: also dont use J4 unless you have 4 cores...
08:32 PM rene-dev_: I have no idea what it takes to distribute a kernel... maybe jepler or seb can look at that...
08:32 PM rene-dev_: I usually run twice as many threads as I have cores
08:33 PM rene-dev_: if you really want to load your system, run make -j without a number ;D
08:33 PM pcw_home: Yeah it may depend on memory and caches size i usually get the best speed when they are matched
08:33 PM RyanS: does linuxCNC care if a limit or e-stop switch is SP-NO, SP-NC or DPST? for breakaway plasma torch mount seems like NC is the best
08:34 PM pcw_home: NC is good so a broken wire causes a fault
08:34 PM pcw_home: rather than a crash
08:34 PM rene-dev_: fail-safe is always a good idea on machines that can hurt you
08:34 PM RyanS: for limit switches too?
08:35 PM rene-dev_: yes
08:35 PM * hazzy-dev is excited about the new 4.16 kernel
08:40 PM RyanS: so the vast majority of microswiches from RS are SPDT, they can be wired NC or NO? But i'm thinking just get SP-NC so it's less confusing
08:40 PM hazzy-dev: Trying to follow PCWs past, but looks like 'kernel-package' was dropped in stretch ...
08:41 PM hazzy-dev: paste even
08:43 PM Tom_L: i tried to run it and got permission denied
08:47 PM Tom_itx: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/06/msg00774.html
08:48 PM pcw_home: that script is running now on my machine (updating from 4.16.7)
08:49 PM hazzy-dev: Thanks Tom_L, I was just reading that!
08:49 PM Tom_itx: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/06/msg00784.html
08:52 PM CaptHindsight: pcw_home: since you're here is there a ethernet card with just lots of IO?
08:52 PM Tom_itx: 7i80
08:52 PM Tom_itx: 72
08:53 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, with 3 50-pin headers
08:53 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_itx: thanks!
08:54 PM Tom_itx: yup
08:54 PM CaptHindsight: need that Mesa master decoder ring
08:54 PM Tom_L: i was playing with one tonight
08:55 PM Tom_L: that's how i knew :)
08:59 PM gregcnc_: why is this being turn this way? https://www.instagram.com/p/BjGCc_hllet/
09:02 PM ziper: GOOD question
09:08 PM Tom_L: maybe they get ringing otherwise
09:09 PM Tom_L: remember the straps they put around brake drums when they turned em?
09:09 PM Tom_L: (this will date alot of you)
09:10 PM hazzy-dev: gregcnc_: I think that may be to give a VERY fine finish and flat surface, but I normally thing of form turning being done like that
09:10 PM Tom_L: i've done my share of form tools
09:11 PM hazzy-dev: Yes, form tools are fun, to use, not to make!
09:11 PM gregcnc_: yeah that's what I was thinking
09:11 PM Tom_L: it gave the tool n die makers something to do besides sit on their butts all day
09:13 PM hazzy-dev: I made a bunch of clamp screws with swivel feet (like on c-clamps) and use a form tool to turn the .375 ball on the end of O1 drill rod, worked a treat
09:15 PM Tom_L: i ran a row of 6 & 8 spindle new brittans for a while
09:15 PM Tom_L: all cams n gears
09:16 PM Tom_L: oh, and door springs...
09:17 PM hazzy-dev: Nice! Guess a 'subroutine' is a separate gearbox/camshaft :D
09:22 PM Tom_L: all the cross slides went in at once as well as the main horizontal one
09:22 PM Tom_L: it had a separate cam
09:22 PM Tom_L: on a drum
09:23 PM Tom_L: they did have brakes on the spindles so you could stop at a station for something like a cross drill etc
09:23 PM Tom_L: the 8 spindle had 2 that stopped to drill then tap at the next stop
09:39 PM ziper: ive never seen a brake being turned, drum or otherwise
09:40 PM hazzy-dev: That is awesome! It is amazing what you can do with mechanical control.
09:43 PM hazzy-dev: I guess Robert Hooke invented the first automated multi spindle mill/turn machine, though he is only really known for his spring law
09:45 PM hazzy-dev: I think that was Hooke, my history is so bad ...
09:49 PM * hazzy-dev goes to find his history of tech books
09:51 PM Tom_L: the spindle carrier would lift up a few thousandths every time it changed stations
09:52 PM Tom_L: the mechanism for that was intersting
10:30 PM flyback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uicyBjfvEQ
10:39 PM Tom_L: hazzy, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqPcodjqUkU
10:39 PM Tom_L: the 60 & 61 & 62 were old models
10:40 PM Tom_L: had a clutch arm on the side to engage them
10:40 PM Tom_L: the 51 52 812 were newer
10:46 PM hazzy-dev: Man, I can't imagine setting up one of those new britains
10:46 PM Tom_L: took about a shift if you had to change collets & feed tubes etc
10:47 PM Tom_L: setup wasn't bad really
10:47 PM Tom_L: i'd throw all the cross tools in at once and align them as the test bar went around to each one
10:48 PM Tom_L: setup paid good
10:49 PM hazzy-dev: I guess the parts you'd make on a machine like that would generally be pretty simple
10:49 PM Tom_L: most of them
10:49 PM Tom_L: i had a couple machines with brakes that did cross drilling etc
10:49 PM Tom_L: one had a pickoff tool that counterbored the part
10:50 PM Tom_L: slitting tool that put a screwdriver slot in the end as it was spinning
10:50 PM jdh: I have been searching maps of kansas for something interesting to see/do.
10:50 PM Tom_L: such as?
10:50 PM jdh: pretty much anything interesting. I will have a day or two to kill
10:51 PM jdh: but, no lukc.
10:51 PM jdh: luck
10:51 PM jdh: it's a pretty big place. seems surprisingly empty
10:51 PM hazzy-dev: Now that I think of if, my uncle has a multi spindle lathe that he uses to make diamond pins, it might be a new britain. Probably been making the same parts since the 60s
10:51 PM Tom_L: come down and say hi to stewart
10:52 PM jdh: or I guess unsurprisingly, if you know anything about kansas. which I didn't/don't
10:52 PM hazzy-dev: jdh: Good corvair junk yard in KS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_n98K3I7nc
10:52 PM jdh: seems like a good place for corvairs
10:53 PM Tom_L: sight seeing or technical ?
10:53 PM jdh: sure
10:53 PM Tom_L: nelson atkins museum in KC is free
10:54 PM Tom_L: you could spend a few days there an not see it all
10:54 PM Tom_L: kansas cosmosphere is in Hutchinson
10:54 PM jdh: cool. that's a possibility for part of a day
10:54 PM Tom_L: if you like old space stuff
10:54 PM Tom_L: they had the apollo 13 capsule up there for a while
10:54 PM Tom_L: it went on tour and may be back now..
10:55 PM Tom_L: all sorts of cold war era stuff there
10:55 PM Tom_L: http://cosmo.org/
10:55 PM jdh: cool. and not too far from what seems to be god-forsaken emporia
10:56 PM Tom_L: sr71 in the lobby
10:56 PM Tom_L: they built around it
10:56 PM jdh: anything with an sr71 is cool
10:56 PM Tom_L: every time we go to the fair we have to stop there
10:56 PM Tom_L: you'l probably enjoy that more than the nelson
10:57 PM Tom_L: the mrs would like the nelson better
10:57 PM jdh: she will be at home
10:58 PM Tom_L: it's right off 11th st
10:58 PM Tom_L: 50 will take you there but it's a well travelled road
10:59 PM Tom_L: 2 lane
10:59 PM jdh: anything in dodge city?
10:59 PM Tom_L: cows and dirt
10:59 PM Tom_L: there's a boot hill museum there
10:59 PM jdh: sounds like kansas
10:59 PM Tom_L: wax museum
11:00 PM Tom_L: last time i was there it was closed for some reason
11:00 PM Tom_L: on the way you could see the largest hand dug well at greensberg
11:00 PM Tom_L: home of one of the biggest torandos on record
11:01 PM Tom_L: last time i was there the town was pretty barren
11:01 PM Tom_L: both are straight W on 54/400
11:01 PM Tom_L: dodge is about an hour or more from wichita
11:02 PM Tom_L: greensberg is about halfway
11:02 PM Tom_L: meh, looks more like 2/3
11:03 PM Tom_L: not alot out that direction really
11:04 PM Tom_L: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensburg,_Kansas#/media/File:Greensburg_kansas_tornado.jpg
11:05 PM Tom_L: the cosmosphere is affiliated with the Smithsonian
11:06 PM jdh: that one looks pretty good. what about teh salt mine thing
11:06 PM Tom_L: it's a salt mine.
11:06 PM Tom_L: i've not been down there but i hear it's huge
11:07 PM Tom_L: it's right on the way in from 50 to 11th st
11:07 PM Tom_L: you'll go right by it
11:07 PM Tom_L: i'd rather see the space stuff personally
11:07 PM jdh: yeah, me too
11:07 PM Tom_L: they've got an imax too
11:07 PM Tom_L: dunno what's showing
11:08 PM Tom_L: http://cosmo.org/exhibitions/hall-of-space
11:14 PM hazzy-dev: Tom_L These are made on a new britain, or something like one, all mechanical: https://www.carrlane.com/en-us/product/locators/locating-pins
11:14 PM hazzy-dev: After machining they get hardened and then ground BY HAND, old school!
11:14 PM Tom_L: if you go, take 50 W to the airport road then N to 11th st then W until you get to it
11:15 PM Tom_L: hazzy yeah probably
11:15 PM hazzy-dev: My uncle founded Carr Lane in the early 50s, and up until he died at 93 worked every day in the shop, and DID NOT like to see things change
11:15 PM hazzy-dev: Since he died a few CNCs have crept in, but still most of the vast variety of Carr Lane products are made the old fashion way
11:16 PM Tom_L: i was at coleman and made alot of their lantern parts for a while
11:17 PM Tom_L: they had probably 20 or more new britans
11:17 PM Tom_L: as well as brown & sharp and davenports
11:17 PM Tom_L: 4 basic machine rooms
11:17 PM Tom_L: the 4th being chuckers and special machines for forgings
11:18 PM hazzy-dev: Thats awesome! I love those old lanterns, I can't find mantles for mine anymore tough :(
11:18 PM Tom_L: a couple presses that stamped out the tanks
11:19 PM Tom_L: a line that brazed the halves
11:19 PM hazzy-dev: I guess most of the parts were orifices and needle valves?
11:19 PM Tom_L: i did the larger parts
11:19 PM Tom_L: propane regulators, filler caps etc
11:19 PM hazzy-dev: ah, ok
11:20 PM Tom_L: pump base, check valves etc
11:20 PM Tom_L: the check valve was the one that had the part picker on it
11:20 PM Tom_L: the pump base ran on a dedicated 812
11:20 PM Tom_L: that's all it did 24/7
11:21 PM hazzy-dev: wow! That shows how many lanterns you made!
11:21 PM Tom_L: probably 5-6k filler caps a shift
11:22 PM Tom_L: but those went on just about everything back then
11:22 PM Tom_L: until propane got popular
11:22 PM hazzy-dev: it is hard to imagine there being that much demand, those things are basically indestructible
11:22 PM Tom_L: oh, i made the propane threaded tops too
11:22 PM Tom_L: 3 different sizes
11:23 PM Tom_L: and the threaded part that soldered in the tanks for the filler caps
11:23 PM Tom_L: alot of those were rolled threads
11:23 PM Tom_L: lots of brass barb fittings
11:24 PM Tom_L: the brown & sharps and davenports made all the small parts
11:31 PM hazzy-dev: Does Colman still make anything in the US? Guess its mostly plastic junk or licensed stuff made in china
11:38 PM Tom_L: they still have a couple factories here
11:38 PM Tom_L: NE plant is mostly plastic
11:38 PM Tom_L: the downtown plant where i was is gone and they moved that to a suburb area
11:38 PM Tom_L: not sure what's out there now
11:39 PM Tom_L: the north plant was heating and AC and was sold to honeywell? i think
11:40 PM nallar is now known as Ross
11:54 PM fragalot: hi
11:56 PM voxadam: hi