#linuxcnc Logs
May 19 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:18 AM Tom_L: lcvette, for what it's worth, i just installed wheezy following those directions and gmocappy sim came right up
12:21 AM Tom_L: it did have an issue installing gnome though
12:21 AM Tom_L: not sure what happened there
12:21 AM Tom_L: i'll likely try it again in the morning
12:35 AM IchGucksLive: morning from germany
12:35 AM IchGucksLive: getting a nice day here
12:51 AM gloops: everybody is up early today
12:51 AM fragalot: always.
12:52 AM gloops: the early bird catches the worm
12:52 AM gloops: or gets caught by the early fox
12:53 AM fragalot: gloops: the early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
12:53 AM gloops: true
01:01 AM IchGucksLive: gloops big day in GB
01:01 AM gloops: oh i dont know Ichs
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: news is full
01:03 AM gloops: FA Cup?
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: yes of cause
01:04 AM gloops: the young fool should never have done it
01:07 AM gloops: bit of tweaking to do but i might have a go at one of these signs later https://ibb.co/h5i75o
01:11 AM IchGucksLive: im off gloops party 3Bilion people are invited :O
01:17 AM gloops: must be one Merkel organised lol
01:25 AM gloops: the problem with deciding to what to make with a cnc router is that a cnc router can make so many things
01:25 AM gloops: difficult to focus on specific lines
01:26 AM fragalot: in my experience the best thing to do is... Just get on with it mate.
01:26 AM fragalot: faffing about looking at everything it COULD do isn't going to make anything
01:27 AM gloops: true, i have got a few things firmed up
01:27 AM gloops: but then again making things that arent worth making is also a waste of time
01:28 AM gloops: the market will ultimately decide!
01:28 AM fragalot: for it to decide you've got to make it first :P
01:29 AM gloops: can study the form, on ebay and etsy, places like that
01:30 AM gloops: its strange though, exactly same item, one seller has 5000 sales, the next one has 3
01:31 AM fragalot: that's just how the world works
01:31 AM fragalot: squeeky wheel gets the oil
01:32 AM gloops: i know a woman who as an emporium, selling tarted up tat, im going to call in and ask her whats hot
01:32 AM fragalot: Anyway i'm off - need to go install some radiators
01:33 AM gloops: dont forget the pipe wrench
01:33 AM fragalot: :-)
01:33 AM fragalot: try those knipex pliers
01:33 AM fragalot: you'll never look at a pipe wrench for things other than galva pipe (which is not really used any more) again.
01:34 AM fragalot: in fact, I guarantee you'll never use an adjustable wrench again either
01:34 AM gloops: ive got loads of old pipe spanners, i rarely use any other than adjustables, just convenient
01:35 AM MrTrick: anyone have a strong opinion about those "RichAuto DSP" cnc controllers?
01:35 AM MrTrick: I've got one that broke, and just had the replacement arrive back. (machine out of commission while I waited)
01:35 AM fragalot: never heard of 'm
01:36 AM MrTrick: and I'm wanting to replace it with something more open and easily fixed/replaced, but can't bring myself to run a full PC. (yes... I know this is #LINUXcnc)
01:36 AM fragalot: smoothieboard?
01:36 AM MrTrick: fragalot: little pendant with a USB stick slot at the top, runs gcode interpreter internally, costs way too much for what it does.
01:37 AM MrTrick: yeah, smoothieboard or grbl would probably work, but they both need something to send them the gcode AFAIK
01:37 AM fragalot: I know the RAMPS board can read sd cards directly, i'm sure the smoothieboard can do that too
01:37 AM gloops: whats the problem with a PC? size?
01:38 AM fragalot: i'm off- ttyl
01:41 AM MrTrick: gloops: yes and complexity - I really don't want something I need to run updates on, for instance.
01:43 AM MrTrick: That's true about RAMPS - I hadn't considered those controllers. http://www.instructables.com/id/Set-Up-RAMPS-Arduino-Electronics-for-a-CNC-Router/
01:43 AM gloops: well, probably wont need updating, i mean if you just have an old box specifically for running the machine, once linuxcnc is installed thats it, no need to be online or anything
01:44 AM MrTrick: my 3D printers are a few kilos, my CNC router is ~250kg... let's hope whatever controls it is stable.
01:44 AM gloops: what are you making with the router MrTrick?
01:45 AM MrTrick: all sorts of things, from foam to steel
01:46 AM MrTrick: machining ironbark timber was interesting.
01:46 AM gloops: i cant find a foam supplier here at a reasonable price
01:46 AM MrTrick: (600x900x150mm 2.2kw@24000rpm, the answer is "whatever is unfortunate enough to get in its way")
01:47 AM gloops: i want something like outdoor mdf or rigid hard foam
01:47 AM MrTrick: and 140mm milling bits are fun and SCARY things. (hide behind a big piece of plywood when it's running)
01:48 AM gloops: 140mm diameter?
01:50 AM MrTrick: no, length
01:50 AM MrTrick: the foam was plunge-cut to about 95mm deep, as was the ironbark
01:51 AM MrTrick: broke one very expensive bit in a homing mishap, but its replacement still goes very well.
01:52 AM MrTrick: I tried a cheap chinese bit (much thinner though) and it BROKE just spinning up. Into three pieces.
01:54 AM gloops: hmm, ive got a few cheapo bits, not had one break, they do bend easily though
01:57 AM MrTrick: 6x150mm is basically a strand of spaghetti
02:35 AM Deejay: moin
03:46 AM Loetmichel: soo, arrived at my mother in laws new appartment. after a four hour drive. its 10:00 am now here... hopefully it will be the last time renovating here. A few more baseboards and i am done. Nex week she'll move, then its done. :-)
03:52 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz13p2QIP3A nice
04:02 AM XXCoder: nice! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9TrUPoevXI
04:02 AM XXCoder: 1 kw wind for 30 bucks, I guess assuming you got free newspaper print metal sheets
04:03 AM XXCoder: and a scrapyard I guess since theres bunch of stuff
04:05 AM Loetmichel: i tink i know that 1kw for 30 bucks video. that generator does 1kw in a hurricane. IF at all
04:06 AM Loetmichel: but its a neat pretty cheap solution if you have some scrap laying around.
04:08 AM XXCoder: what ya think of earlier video
04:31 AM gloops: right, went back to bed for an hour, but off to the wood place shortly
04:31 AM XXCoder: the hard wood place
04:31 AM XXCoder: I guess you meant wood shop place?
04:32 AM gloops: wood shop yeah, they have got some hardwoods but i wont be buying any today
05:50 AM XXCoder: archivist_herron: hey?
06:03 AM jthornton: he has not been on for quite some time
06:04 AM XXCoder: yeah hoped herron one coming in meant hes finally coming but guess not
06:05 AM jthornton: the herron one has been on all the time
06:06 AM XXCoder: yeah though it recently rejoined
06:14 AM jthornton: tore out the tub and stuff from the master bath yesterday, gotta move the drain and make it 2"
06:14 AM jthornton: putting in a shower
06:27 AM XXCoder: cool
06:27 AM XXCoder: walk in type?
06:27 AM XXCoder: that seems popular lately
06:29 AM jthornton: https://www.homedepot.com/p/American-Standard-Ovation-30-in-x-60-in-x-72-in-3-piece-Direct-to-Stud-Shower-Wall-in-Arctic-White-2699-SW-011/203978460
06:29 AM gloops: UK prices - how much for sawn oak, 150mm x 60mm x 3.3 metres
06:29 AM gloops: 6x2.4 inch about 11 ft
06:30 AM gloops: £99 + VAT lol, just got quote printed
06:36 AM jthornton: https://www.americanstandard-us.com/-/media/sites/asus/files/product-instruction-manuals/bulk/installation2699sw011.pdf?la=en
06:36 AM jthornton: a lot more work than I had anticipated putting the wall surround up lol
06:38 AM gloops: stud wall jthornton? only an hour with the chop saw and some 4 inch nails
06:39 AM XXCoder: jthornton: consider putting in isulation
06:39 AM jthornton: yea if it was new construction sure
06:39 AM jthornton: this is a remodel so nothing takes an hour
06:39 AM XXCoder: expecially if has tub
06:39 AM jthornton: it's already insulated when I built the house
06:42 AM jthornton: I put 16" of insulation in the attic what an improvement in heat loss during the winter
06:45 AM Loetmichel: i bet its alos reducing the load on the a/c in summer?
06:45 AM Loetmichel: also
06:45 AM jthornton: aye
06:46 AM Loetmichel: did you insulate the roof or the attich "floor"?
06:46 AM Loetmichel: attic
06:47 AM jthornton: attic
06:48 AM XXCoder: no was talking about bath walls, and if you ever do other one with tub, also isulate inside walls of tub so hot water stays hot much longer
06:48 AM XXCoder: we plan to isulate downstairs tub, upstairs also has tub but uncertain plans as it leaks water sometimes (we guess its from overflow )
06:49 AM Tom_L: morning
06:50 AM jthornton: it's just a shower so the water just runs out
06:50 AM jthornton: morning
06:50 AM Tom_L: at least yours came in pieces
06:51 AM Tom_L: mine was a 1 piece tub/shower way back when i put it in
06:51 AM Tom_L: but it was new construction
06:51 AM jthornton: yea a 1 piece tub with surround is a pain... I put one in Dad's house when I built it
06:52 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/house/11.jpg
06:52 AM Tom_L: i dug a hole under the house
06:53 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/house/1.jpg
06:53 AM jthornton: is that how you got the tub inside?
06:54 AM Tom_L: no, once it was poured it set it down the stair hole before putting them in
06:56 AM Tom_L: if it ever comes out it will be in pieces
06:58 AM Tom_L: then i tore off the right side of the rear of the house and extended it all the way across
06:59 AM jthornton: yea my sawzall took apart the jacuzzi tub lol
07:01 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/house/yard1.jpg
07:01 AM Tom_L: that's much later after it was all done
07:01 AM fragalot: hi
07:01 AM Tom_L: and before the patio cover was done
07:04 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: in germany the "retainer" for the tub is already a big styrofoam block. so that its insulated pretty good.
07:04 AM Loetmichel: how do you tubs over there??
07:04 AM XXCoder: hard plastic sheel
07:04 AM XXCoder: shell
07:04 AM Loetmichel: ah
07:05 AM Loetmichel: we usually put tiles on the "tub wall", so sthe styrofoam is better here
07:05 AM Loetmichel: your shell is visible, isnt it?
07:05 AM Li: guys! I'm confused about the need need for cnc controller! does it include stepper drivers?
07:06 AM Li: or just replacing the computer
07:06 AM fragalot: no
07:06 AM Li: the only thing I understood about cnc machine building is the need for stepper and drivers
07:06 AM Loetmichel: Li: neither
07:06 AM fragalot: linuxcnc (the cnc controller, on your computer), tells the stepper drivers what to do
07:06 AM fragalot: and the stepper motors do what they're told
07:06 AM Loetmichel: it replaces usually the software servo thread
07:06 AM fragalot: usually
07:07 AM Li: I wonder why not using raspberry/arduino directly to replace controller and breakout boards
07:07 AM fragalot: because they don't have the same computational power
07:07 AM fragalot: so an arc will not be an accurace curve
07:07 AM Loetmichel: there are some that use an ardunio and grbl as a replacement for linuxCNC entirely
07:08 AM jthornton: Li: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/user/user-intro.html
07:08 AM fragalot: which can work fine depending on your needs
07:09 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: usually they can do arcs fine. they lack a bit in comp power when it comes to acceleration ramps and lookahead in 3 axis.
07:09 AM Loetmichel: so in true 3d
07:09 AM Loetmichel: for 2.5d its USUALLY good enough
07:12 AM Li: according to fragalot, I can avoid buying cnc controller if I use linuxCNC, the setup will end up PC>BreakoutBoard>3StepperWithDrivers
07:15 AM Li: oh it's demonstrated on jthornton link too
07:15 AM fragalot: huzzah microsoft installed YetAnotherThing on my pc that I don't want
07:15 AM fragalot: the dutch "local experience" package,.. Even though I want my windows to be in english
07:19 AM gloops: what kind of machine Li?
07:21 AM Li: gloops: any 3axis machine for starter .. still looking for plans and making my mind whether to go into laser engraving, 3d printing or cnc router
07:21 AM Li: matter of fact interested in all :D
07:22 AM Li: this is what I wanted to buy before asking here "NVUM 4 Axis mini cnc milling machine Mach3 USB Card 300KHz"
07:23 AM Li: now I think I can use and old desktop/linuxcnc as controllers instead
07:26 AM gloops: Li , all pretty similar format, they would all run fine on stepper motors/drivers/breakout board, unless youre building a big router with high specs where youd probably go for servos
07:27 AM fragalot: start small.
07:28 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: better than me... i am typing on a new cheap win10 notebook i bought last week because i forgot mine at home. first thing it did while here on the cellphone dataplan: download 4gb updates... all my volume for this month...
07:30 AM XXCoder: Li: simplest cnc is laser machine, just risks to eyes
07:31 AM XXCoder: 3d printing... its pretty simple machine but annoying to make work
07:31 AM XXCoder: plotter, cutter, so many machines possible
07:32 AM XXCoder: plotter to learn how cnc works, then convert it to laser
07:33 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: when it is done you can set your connecction as 'metered'
07:33 AM fragalot: :p
07:33 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: already done NOW...
07:34 AM gloops: suppose it depends what level youre starting at, if youre someone who makes things all the time a cnc router isnt a great undertaking, if you never normally make things, it is
07:35 AM Loetmichel: gloops: my first CNC router (back 25 years) wasnt all THAT great...
07:36 AM Li: XXCoder: laser cutters speaking, I was looking for 2.5W laser, but not sure which one wavelenght,color to purchase. beside I'm not sure if EU customs will not consider it dangerous to buy from china
07:36 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2859
07:36 AM fragalot: my first 3D printer was made with an iron, k'nex and string 20yrs ago..
07:36 AM Loetmichel: --- but it DID work, AND not that shabby either.
07:36 AM gloops: well, i think you have to put some trust in some of the knowledge on the net from people who have made them, and study some of the design principles
07:37 AM gloops: my first attempt i thought i knew it all and it wasnt so good
07:37 AM XXCoder: good question, I only know usa laws
07:37 AM Loetmichel: when i made my first there wasnt THAT much "internet" :-)
07:38 AM Loetmichel: but true, you
07:38 AM gloops: EU allows chinese lasers - after all germany is heavily invested in the chinese companies
07:38 AM Loetmichel: learn over time
07:38 AM fragalot: portable laseres are limited in power
07:38 AM Loetmichel: gloops: german customs often catch and drstroy lasers.
07:38 AM fragalot: look up local laws.
07:39 AM gloops: you can get fibre lasers here
07:39 AM fragalot: not portable.
07:39 AM Loetmichel: it has to be correctly described AND has to have al the legal work like laser stickers and CE stickers and warnings and stuff
07:40 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: even the naked modules. if they have no warnings or CE or description they are gone
07:40 AM fragalot: well yeah
07:40 AM gloops: ive seena lot of posts showing disappointment with the small lasers on facebook
07:40 AM Loetmichel: laserPOINTERS (as in "standalone devices taht operate ootb" you CANT import them above 1mW
07:41 AM Loetmichel: there is no way to get them in legally.
07:41 AM gloops: the ad shows lumps of plywood cut out - in reality the laser turns the surface light brown, very slowly
07:41 AM XXCoder: Loetmichel: careful with chinese ones, as "<1mW" often is more than that'
07:41 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: especially if its DPSS, i know
07:41 AM Loetmichel: <1mW green, but 10mW IR out of the same opening ;)
07:43 AM Loetmichel: gloops: 2,5W blue or UV (the usual chinese modules) should be enough for light cuts in plywood up to 3mm thickness. SLOW though
07:43 AM Loetmichel: been there tested that
07:43 AM Loetmichel: better get a 10W or 20W Co2 tube and a few mirrors/lense head for laser cutting
07:43 AM Loetmichel: MUCH better cut and faster.
07:54 AM phipli: anyone know of a generic AVR bootloader, or atmega128 specific one, that doesn't rely on autoreset?
07:58 AM JT-Shop: http://gnipsel.com/images/shower/jacuuzi.jpg
07:58 AM JT-Shop: morning phipli
07:58 AM JT-Shop: Tom_L: might know
07:59 AM phipli: morning JT-Shop
07:59 AM phipli: yeah, figured he might
07:59 AM phipli: chasing on #avr too
07:59 AM phipli: they've suggested optiboot, but I didn't think it waited that long
07:59 AM phipli: no harm in giving it a go
08:01 AM Tom_L: app note 109 iirc
08:03 AM Tom_L: i never did alot with bootloaders
08:03 AM phipli: Tom_L, I'll probably start from here : https://github.com/vanbwodonk/optiboot128
08:05 AM Tom_L: i'll put 109 up if you wanna look at it
08:05 AM phipli: I've found a copy
08:05 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/pdf/atmel/
08:05 AM phipli: just about to flash the modified optiboot
08:06 AM Tom_L: it's there also
08:06 AM Tom_L: i've got source for it somewhere
08:06 AM phipli: misplaced my avr isp mk2 though... so having to use my stk500, which is more faff :s
08:06 AM Tom_L: oh i know
08:06 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/avr/tech-lib/
08:06 AM phipli: RS were getting rid of the last of their STK500s a while back and I got one because... discount
08:07 AM Tom_L: everything in production up to 2013
08:07 AM Tom_L: in the tech lib rar
08:07 AM Tom_L: 7g though
08:07 AM phipli: ta, grabbed that
08:08 AM phipli: blimey
08:08 AM phipli: big file
08:08 AM phipli: wasn't expecting that :)
08:08 AM Tom_L: like i said...
08:08 AM Tom_L: 7G
08:08 AM phipli: how do you fit that in an atmega8 :)
08:08 AM Tom_L: big hammer
08:08 AM phipli: :)
08:08 AM tiwake: does linuxCNC prefer an old core2duo system over something a little more modern?
08:08 AM phipli: if in doubt, apply force (or fire)
08:09 AM Tom_L: tiwake, depends
08:09 AM tiwake: what about piledriver based AM3+ systems?
08:09 AM Tom_L: if it's rtai old is good
08:09 AM Tom_L: if preempt not so much
08:10 AM Tom_L: phipli, usb chips ship with bootloaders fwiw
08:10 AM tiwake: well, I'm asking cause work is getting rid of old crap computers, the newest of the old crap dell computers they are getting rid of is core2duo based systems
08:10 AM tiwake: was wondering if I should hold on to one of them
08:10 AM Tom_L: not until you do will you realize the mistake you just made
08:11 AM tiwake: so regardless of the system, its a crapshot trying different stuff out until it works well enough for linuxCNC?
08:12 AM tiwake: personally I'd prefer to have ECC RAM in such a system
08:16 AM gloops: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1973691509608160
08:17 AM gloops: 'its got an engine, 4 wheels and a seat' haha
08:17 AM gloops: 10k minimum with an MOT
08:32 AM phipli: Tom_L, I've got fed up and replaced the daft 7.3xxmhz crystal on the dev board with a socket so I can put whatever crystal I like in it
08:33 AM phipli: hopefully that will help trouble shooting
08:36 AM ChanServ changed topic of #linuxcnc to: Forum downtime for upgrade starting at 1500UTC | LinuxCNC is a linux-based open-source CNC control. | Latest release: 2.7.13 | http://www.linuxcnc.org
08:38 AM gloops: hmm, just had a bad mistake, first 2 passes perfect, 3 pass starts 50mm out on X
08:38 AM gloops: cant be missed steps its 2 motors
08:39 AM gregcnc_: read the code
08:39 AM gloops: lol, many lines
08:39 AM gregcnc_: read it
08:40 AM gregcnc_: is axis preview correct?
08:40 AM gloops: yes
08:40 AM gregcnc_: same tool?
08:40 AM gloops: yes
08:41 AM gloops: psu blip?
08:41 AM Loetmichel: gloops: had that a few times on y on my machine. i suspect either a lose contact on the y stepper motor OR some miscalculation of acceleration ramps
08:41 AM Loetmichel: is the fault repeatable?
08:41 AM gloops: it should have gone to x extreme - x168, its only got to about x125
08:41 AM Loetmichel: hihj süeed?
08:41 AM Loetmichel: speed
08:42 AM Loetmichel: high
08:42 AM Loetmichel: maan this cheap notebooks keyboard is CRAP
08:42 AM gloops: could run it again Loetmichel and see, that took about 20 minutes to get that far - not high speed no about 1500mm/min
08:42 AM gloops: cant get pic off phone for some reason
08:42 AM gregcnc_: and machine position doesn't match linuxcnc position?
08:43 AM gloops: ill check that, i hit power off instead of pause
08:44 AM gloops: if i travel x back to limit switch it should be around 0
08:48 AM gloops: gantry well out of position, time for a bit of wire checking
08:48 AM gloops: annoying, this thing is cutting beautifully
09:01 AM gloops: right..linuxcnc rapids at maximum velocity for the axis right?
09:01 AM gloops: which i had at 4800mm/min, it cant safely go that quick so maybe that was it
09:10 AM Loetmichel: porbably right
09:10 AM Loetmichel: probably
09:13 AM gloops: something pretty satisfying about carving pine with 0 effort and it doesnt need sanding
09:15 AM gloops: yeah seems so Loetmichel, started 3 pass in right place this time
09:15 AM gloops: X axis only goes safely 4200mm/min
09:18 AM gloops: for now..heh heh
09:24 AM Loetmichel: sounds like an CNC 6040
09:24 AM Loetmichel: cant get mine faster than f4200 either :-)
09:26 AM gloops: its faster on y and z, just gantry, with weight, ive got some bigger motors to fit at sometime, its fast enough for now though
09:26 AM gloops: dont know if screws will take more speed anyway
09:28 AM Loetmichel: ballscrews will happily do triple that.
09:28 AM Loetmichel: or did you men "critical RPM" and oscillation on the screws themselves?
09:35 AM MarcelineVQ: bit of a tangent but I'm surprised by how strong my little nema24's are so far, the strength in larger motors is a little scary now that I have a sense of it
09:37 AM Loetmichel: MarcelineVQ: wait til you have a big servo drive in hand.
09:37 AM MarcelineVQ: the day will come, it'll be some little bldc beauty that doesn't look like much but can turn your house over
09:37 AM * Loetmichel had a 3kw 30++kg servo motor jump half a meter UP from its palled just by commanding it to move 3 rotations at max speed and stop
09:37 AM Loetmichel: :-)
09:38 AM Loetmichel: without anything connected to its shaft
09:38 AM SpeedEvil: MarcelineVQ: :)
09:38 AM Loetmichel: just from its own inertia
09:38 AM SpeedEvil: MarcelineVQ: Todays fun number. Frogs leg muscles have a peak power of 500W/kg.
09:39 AM SpeedEvil: 70W/kg, counting the whole frog.
09:40 AM MarcelineVQ: consider that they taste like chicken, crocodiles also taste like chicken, the biting muscle of a crocodile can clamp with extreme pressures, coincidence? what power must chickens contain?
09:41 AM MarcelineVQ: I propose we apply for a research grant
09:41 AM MarcelineVQ: we'll need frozen chickens, an air cannon, and a deep fryer
09:42 AM SpeedEvil: For biting muscle power, extreme speed is not really required
09:42 AM SpeedEvil: For frogs, it's pretty much the only thing - they need extreme high impulse outputs at the cost of everything else.
09:42 AM Loetmichel: i would imagine chicken breast muscles can top that 500W per kg
09:42 AM SpeedEvil: Loetmichel: they don't.
09:42 AM Loetmichel: they have to be light AND strong
09:42 AM SpeedEvil: Loetmichel: Everything is a tradeoff.
09:42 AM MarcelineVQ: We could test pistol shrimp but I doubt they taste like chicken
09:43 AM SpeedEvil: Bird flight muscles and human skeletal muscles both run about 100W/kg.
09:43 AM Loetmichel: interesting
09:43 AM SpeedEvil: they need to be able to cope with endurance.
09:43 AM Loetmichel: indeed
09:43 AM Loetmichel: they have top power for hours on end
09:43 AM Loetmichel: without getting tired
09:44 AM Loetmichel: -p
09:45 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
09:46 AM IchGucksLive: gloops, are you firering the hell out of your cnc
09:55 AM gloops: oh missed him - nah its only going slow, had rapids too high
09:56 AM gloops: not entirely impressed with vectrics texturing strategy either, z lifts to safe height after every touch
10:18 AM pjm: afternoon chaps, in the latest 2.8 pre1 build is there anything that would stop axis movement from an MPG after homing all axis? before homing i can move xyza after homing i cannot use the MPG but can use cursors / pg up/down etc
10:22 AM gloops: switches from local to global mode on homing, i dont know but someone will
10:22 AM pjm: ah yeah ok i will look at that 1st
10:23 AM pjm: i know it'll be a very simple fix, but been looking at it for hours and have pretty much gone mad!
10:27 AM gloops: andypugh maybe or pcw_mesa
10:28 AM andypugh: I suspect that you have linked the MPG to joint.N.jog-counts but not (also) to axis.L.jog-counts.
10:30 AM pjm: ahh yeah i reckon you are right - thanks
10:31 AM pjm: wood for trees... but yep will go and fix
10:37 AM jepler: Forum upgrade starting now. Step 1. take offline and make consistent backup of the whole system.
10:37 AM andypugh: mtpocketscnc: Are you connected to Pocket NC?
10:37 AM jepler: the last major upgrade, this was the single lengthiest step
10:41 AM pjm: yeah i owe u a beer andypugh , i had joint.0.jog.enable set but not axis.x.jog.enable
10:41 AM pjm: now fixed ;-) thanks again
10:42 AM andypugh: It’s not so obvious looking at the HAL. What clued me in was that it was OK before homing.
10:44 AM pjm: yeah i couldnt see it but now you say it its obvious... (ish)
10:45 AM pjm: i've moved the pendant to the parport since it only needs slow read, and linuxcnc now controls 2 machines, so i needed a common mpg that would control both
10:46 AM andypugh: Back to the workshop for me
10:46 AM pjm: next i just need to add the e-stop from the mpg so thats or'd with the machine hardware estops that are on mesa cards, probably will use or2. component
10:51 AM jepler: step 2, which should have been step 1: place the forum in read-only mode..
10:52 AM jepler: step 3, start the ubuntu update process
10:53 AM phipli: Tom_L, got everything working - there was a fuse set wrong somewhere I think
11:03 AM mtpocketscnc1: andypugh: Wish I could say that I was, but no. I went with the name because I'm just a guy with empty pockets (little money) that managed to scrape up money over a couple tax seasons and built a 4 axis mill lol. Mines more rough around the edges ha!
11:08 AM jepler: step 4, install php 7.2 required packages
11:08 AM jepler: steph 5, required restart for new kernel
11:12 AM jepler: There's also a kunena upgrade 5.0.14 -> 5.1.0 but we are not testing fate right now.
11:17 AM jepler: OK, I think the forum's back up and running. going AFK, I'll read back for any forum problem reports given on the channel.
11:18 AM gloops: thank you jepler
11:43 AM gloops: FA Cup about to kick off, Man United v Chelsea
12:08 PM fragalot: Hey
12:11 PM gloops: penalty
12:33 PM IchGucksLive: hi all
12:34 PM IchGucksLive: gloops, are you testing lcnc on 18.04
12:35 PM gloops: 18.04?
12:36 PM IchGucksLive: ubuntu as jepler said update
12:36 PM gloops: oh, no not updated it since i installed it
12:37 PM gloops: im on debian anyway
12:54 PM IchGucksLive: hi
12:56 PM Lcvette: Hi
12:56 PM Lcvette: How are you
12:56 PM IchGucksLive: Lcvette, did you got the first crash d bit
12:56 PM Lcvette: Not following
12:57 PM Lcvette: D bit?
12:57 PM IchGucksLive: Lcvette, im old burned out and smell bacon on the BBQ so im off in short time
12:57 PM gregcnc_: i'm guessing he's asking if you've fixed the rails
12:57 PM Lcvette: No waiting on the tricks to get here still, hoping early next week
12:57 PM IchGucksLive: gloops, i read you beated the hell out of your cnc
12:57 PM Lcvette: Trucks
12:58 PM gloops: Ichs not really, i just left the max velocity slider too high, caused a small error
12:58 PM Lcvette: Until then just trying to sort out the software side
12:59 PM Lcvette: Can still move everything except the y acid
12:59 PM Lcvette: Axis
12:59 PM gloops: dont some deeper and intricate cutting in pine today, very impressed, pretty much perfect
01:00 PM Lcvette: Nice!
01:00 PM gregcnc_: update the ini with max vel
01:01 PM IchGucksLive: gloops, you are getting to PRO level
01:01 PM gloops: yes i will gregcnc, cant forget then
01:01 PM gloops: i wouldnt say that Ichs lol
01:02 PM IchGucksLive: we all are pro as we know where the filefolder is 10k dont
01:03 PM IchGucksLive: lcnc has already lost the race for mass cnc only for higher usersers that retrofit
01:04 PM IchGucksLive: lots of schools alredy turned the system
01:05 PM IchGucksLive: i need to go over to 18.04 from 10.04mashines
01:05 PM Lcvette: What's 18.04?
01:06 PM IchGucksLive: the new longtime support ubuntu
01:06 PM gloops: all going to arduino now Ichs?
01:06 PM IchGucksLive: gloops, li did show up today
01:06 PM gloops: yes Li was here earlier
01:07 PM IchGucksLive: ok he is wright on nonraltime users as now 80% are
01:08 PM IchGucksLive: but with real 3D like i do skulp he is not
01:08 PM gloops: not because its better, because its easier
01:08 PM IchGucksLive: a 3D printer makes 2D leyers
01:08 PM Lcvette: What's the realtime debate?
01:08 PM IchGucksLive: Lcvette, above 2.5D
01:09 PM IchGucksLive: Lcvette, ramp sync on 3Axis+
01:09 PM Lcvette: So multiaxis
01:09 PM Lcvette: Linkinng
01:10 PM IchGucksLive: Lcvette, 99% of cnc is 2.5D
01:10 PM Lcvette: Requires realtime
01:10 PM IchGucksLive: so xy movement and z acting
01:10 PM IchGucksLive: Lcvette, nonrealtime
01:11 PM Lcvette: So when 3 axis linking is in non realtime?
01:12 PM IchGucksLive: the BAD M workes on this for decades
01:12 PM IchGucksLive: and people make good parts
01:12 PM Lcvette: Bad m?
01:12 PM IchGucksLive: with only given 3 latency options in config
01:13 PM Lcvette: I'll have to read up on it
01:13 PM IchGucksLive: Mach3
01:13 PM Lcvette: Ah
01:13 PM Lcvette: Yeah I use Mach3
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: noone i personly know even knoves on the given 3 numbers they are always told to take the middle
01:14 PM Lcvette: I don't know the numbers your referring to
01:14 PM Lcvette: I use an ESS
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: i got aeound 10 mails per day on this as i got M3_BOB on YT
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: if you see the US equal on the BOB its klicked and sold like crazy
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: without reading anything 100k people got it so i need it
01:17 PM Lcvette: Lol
01:17 PM Lcvette: What is it?
01:17 PM IchGucksLive: im off the Smell gets meat ready to eat
01:18 PM miss0r: mosquitos! mosquitos everywhere !
01:21 PM Lcvette: Tom_L_: Yes, Bb
01:21 PM Lcvette: Tom_L_: BIOS scares me... Terrified I'll break something
01:22 PM Lcvette: And that's interesting news on the wheezy working with the see sims, is there a gmoccapy option in pncconfig?
01:25 PM Lcvette: Problem is pcw_mesa pointed out it may be a new can of worms for me setting up a new kernel build and getting it working, so now I'm scared of that..lol
01:25 PM Lcvette: I feel boxed in
01:26 PM Lcvette: :/
01:26 PM Lcvette: But I'm gonna try the wheezy on my spare hard drive
01:27 PM Lcvette: That way I can always swap back and forth fairly quick without issue
01:30 PM jepler: IchGucksLive: upgraded the forum. it has nothing to do with what OS LinuxCNC works best on.
01:31 PM fragalot: miss0r: does your trap not work? :P
01:32 PM miss0r: fragalot: yeah, but it can't keep up.. If I look at it from a distance, I can see a mosquito go into it every second or so
01:32 PM miss0r: which is quite insane to look at
01:33 PM fragalot: lol
01:33 PM CaptHindsight: anyone work with resistance welders and 100um (.004") stainless?
01:33 PM fragalot: need moar of them things then
01:34 PM CaptHindsight: looking for something to weld continuous vs just spot welds
01:35 PM miss0r: fragalot: yeah, but they are damn expensive :o
01:35 PM Lcvette: On. 004"?
01:35 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=XZejfhTe5is
01:35 PM miss0r: fragalot... I'm on episode 14 now... damn you
01:35 PM fragalot: ._.
01:35 PM fragalot: I plead the fifth.
01:35 PM fragalot: no idea what that means, but it seems to be all the rage over in the US
01:35 PM miss0r: that does not work for either of us!
01:36 PM miss0r: basically it allows you to keep your trap shot, as to not incriminate yourself
01:36 PM miss0r: if you were a US citizen, which you are not ;)
01:36 PM CaptHindsight: Lcvette: yes, weld two sheets together
01:36 PM CaptHindsight: no leaks to hold liquids
01:37 PM fragalot: miss0r: oh right.
01:37 PM Lcvette: Butt or lap
01:37 PM fragalot: just like they have the right to remain silent, or have everything they say used against them
01:37 PM fragalot: (I ove lthat line)
01:37 PM fragalot: I love that line*
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: Lcvette: any as long as it is a seal
01:38 PM miss0r: indeed :]
01:38 PM Lcvette: How big?
01:38 PM miss0r: fragalot: Damn sweet work they are doing
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: spot welding them is easy
01:39 PM fragalot: miss0r: told you you'd love it
01:39 PM fragalot: who cares if they mix up & downhill welding
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: Lcvette: length of welds 100-300mm
01:39 PM miss0r: you were right :)
01:39 PM rmu: is it too thin for TIG? never tried anything below 0.6mm
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg_fDRr7tUc
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: Seam Welder
01:43 PM CaptHindsight: rmu: would like to automate it
01:44 PM Lcvette: Yeah Sean wider would be your best bet if your patterns work for that type machine
01:44 PM Lcvette: Seam*
01:44 PM Lcvette: Welder
01:45 PM Lcvette: Tig .004" won't say no, but I've never seen or heard about it and I'm an avid you welder of thin stainless and aluminum material
01:46 PM Lcvette: Tig
01:46 PM CaptHindsight: sealing the edges of two sheets like in the video
01:46 PM CaptHindsight: many many bags
01:46 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: you might be better off talking to manufacturers of said machines rather than us :P
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: oh really?
01:47 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: Have you considered JB-weld?
01:47 PM Lcvette: How many?
01:47 PM Lcvette: May be better off farming it out
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: why not just sew them?
01:47 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: you'd still have to tape the seams
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: thousands
01:48 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: hah, you can't fool me, tape!
01:48 PM Lcvette: One time job?
01:48 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: on a more serious note - what size are the bags? because at that thickness ultrasonic welding might also be an option
01:48 PM Lcvette: Yeah
01:50 PM Lcvette: Wonder if you could make a stamp welder
01:50 PM CaptHindsight: .25, .5, .75, 1L
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: buy vs build if possible
01:52 PM Lcvette: Do all 4 sides at once, that would be your best shot at automation
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: has to be leak tight which many do not offer
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: obviously
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: rolling each edge would be preferred
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: then they could do whatever sizes they need
01:53 PM Lcvette: Have to be square
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: or shape bag
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: they are rectangular in plastic
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: will have at least one straight side
01:55 PM rmu: CaptHindsight: if it doesn't need to hold much pressure, it may be enough to fold it like a soda can top
01:55 PM gregcnc_: mil spec capri sun?
01:55 PM CaptHindsight: they won't care about sharp edges until someone gets hurt
01:55 PM rmu: but thats not necessarily easier
01:55 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc_: exactly
01:57 PM CaptHindsight: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-X4GYe6CzG2M/T3nfyfZCaOI/AAAAAAAAADg/XMJUwFdycS8/s1600/CS_25_Less_Pouch.jpg
01:57 PM gregcnc_: nice
01:59 PM CaptHindsight: https://ewi.org/ultrasonic-metal-foil-additive-manufacturing-explained/
01:59 PM CaptHindsight: speaking of ultrasonic
02:00 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.engineering.com/AdvancedManufacturing/ArticleID/16916/Ultrasonic-Metal-Foil-Additive-Manufacturing.aspx
02:01 PM gregcnc_: wow
02:01 PM gregcnc_: somehow never seen that before
02:01 PM MarcelineVQ: you can do yourself with gold and a hammer, gold sure is funny stuff
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: https://sunstonewelders.com/product/orion-i-series-200i2/
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: they say they seam weld at up to 30 spots per second
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=6O1NH3mQJ_Y
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/6O1NH3mQJ_Y?t=32s
02:33 PM fragalot: that is one of the weirder welding method i've seen
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/WAIYoPaa9-I?t=12s Pulse Arc Welding Titanium to Titanium
02:41 PM fragalot: as interesting as that is, I don't think that's a good process to make automated bags :P
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: bags-r-us: send over 100
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: what do you do with tech people that don't know much tech?
02:45 PM fragalot: promote them out of the way
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: they only believe it when they see it
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: they are the ones on top
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: not sure how that happened, but that is the case
02:46 PM fragalot: no comment. :P
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: not my project, asking for a friend
02:50 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: then you get their helpful suggestions in written format in case they end up being put in & don't work
02:51 PM fragalot: it's still going to be your fault
02:52 PM fragalot: but at least you know that then. :P
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: not my problem, asking for a friend
03:04 PM fragalot: then tell your friend to nod in a friendly manner and say "yes sir"
03:06 PM CaptHindsight: oh, I never tell anyone anything, I just ask them
03:11 PM jdh: do I ever tell anyone anything or do I just ask them.
03:14 PM gloops: i dont speak to them, i just look at the thing that needs doing, look at them, and they obey
03:52 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, I have read that it's possible to solder stainless, although IIRC it requires a special flux. Maybe you could deposit solder paste along the seam via stencil, and reflow under pressure in an oven to laminate the edges. The foil would have very little thermal mass.
03:54 PM Rab: https://www.amazon.com/Solder-Paste-Flux-Silver-Easy/dp/B000VQ9HX4
03:56 PM Rab: I suppose you would need to control the temperature profile very carefully to avoid changing the characteristics of the stainless foil in some undesirable way, like making it more brittle.
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: the solder might contaminate whats inside the bags
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: has to be FDA
04:00 PM Rab: oic
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, always a catch to make it more harderer
04:00 PM Rab: Why stainless?
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: heat transfer
04:01 PM sync: you should be able to use pure tin
04:01 PM sync: which is FDA compatible
04:02 PM rmu: laser
04:02 PM CaptHindsight: not my call, it's SS, and it just is
04:08 PM CaptHindsight: it probably won't work since they will be trying to seal it with fluid in the bag
04:08 PM Rab: haha wow
04:09 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, I was just asked for an opinion
04:09 PM Rab: How much heat are we talking about to be transferred?
04:09 PM CaptHindsight: bbl later, the post office waits not for me
04:10 PM Rab: git'r done
04:32 PM Deejay: gn8
04:33 PM miss0r: have any of you got any real experience with what runout to expect from the fleabay chinesium special spindles? Will it be good enough for an ID grinder for the lathe?
04:35 PM CaptHindsight: miss0r: couple of thousandths 50um
04:35 PM CaptHindsight: anything better is icing on the cake
04:36 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight: couple of thousandths/50um ?
04:36 PM miss0r: i.e. 0.05mm ? :o
04:36 PM CaptHindsight: you might get a good one or a bad one
04:37 PM miss0r: well, 0.005mm is barely good enough
04:37 PM miss0r: hmm... I guess it is worth a shot - a 'real' one is ridiculously expensive
04:37 PM CaptHindsight: it's all i count on, like i said, you might get lucky
04:38 PM miss0r: indeed.
04:38 PM CaptHindsight: I've gotten beautiful bearings as well as with "detents"
04:38 PM miss0r: Excellent solution to determin where on the rotation you are :D
04:39 PM miss0r: But if the housing & motor is fairly good, one could always put in some good bearings
04:39 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
04:39 PM miss0r: I have a friend that can balance rotors...
04:39 PM CaptHindsight: still lower cost than a western brand
04:39 PM CaptHindsight: on his head while drinking?
04:40 PM miss0r: So new bearings, a balancing, and most likely a regrind of the ER collect taper
04:40 PM miss0r: hehe, Probally - he is damn good
04:40 PM CaptHindsight: I have rebuilt most of my China bought things
04:40 PM miss0r: he rebuilds spindles for a living
04:40 PM miss0r: indeed
04:41 PM CaptHindsight: Chinese bearing checklist: (1) Does it spin without the aid of a long handled tool?
04:41 PM miss0r: then it must pass qc
04:42 PM miss0r: :D
04:42 PM CaptHindsight: Does it look like a bearing? :)
04:42 PM miss0r: If unsure; pass
04:43 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
04:44 PM miss0r: remarkable how little respect we have for the generic chinesium.
04:45 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: handling bags made from .004 SS is going to be like working with razor blades 12" long
04:45 PM CaptHindsight: miss0r: they have all the same machine tools there, they just don't try as hard
04:46 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, yeah
04:47 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight: Which is actually unfair. If you compare two pieces of equipment, one western and one asian, they come up equal, if you pay the same for them
04:49 PM Loetmichel: re at home.
04:52 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: did you just add an additional floor to your ML home? :)
04:53 PM Loetmichel: nope. did the rest of the baseboards/skirting and cleaned up the place so that she can move next weekend
04:53 PM Loetmichel: move in i mean
04:54 PM CaptHindsight: far from you?
04:54 PM Loetmichel: 400km
04:54 PM Loetmichel: started this morning at 05:30
04:54 PM Loetmichel: now its 23:20 here ;)
04:55 PM CaptHindsight: with 6 hours driving?
04:55 PM Loetmichel: two times 4 hours drive and a bit of work in between
04:55 PM CaptHindsight: long day
04:55 PM Loetmichel: indeed
04:59 PM Loetmichel: btw: 2.5/2.8 bar instead of <2.0 bar on the rubber results in 7L diesel/100km instead of 10L/100km, even if i logged in the cruise control at 140kph instead of 120 like last time. (not counting the three big street construction sites where the limit is 80kph of course)
05:02 PM miss0r: goodnight people
05:07 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: lower fuel consumption with lower air pressure in the tires?
05:08 PM Loetmichel: lower fuel consumption with HIHGER pressure
05:08 PM CaptHindsight: oh sorry lower fuel consumption with higher pressure tires
05:08 PM CaptHindsight: 30% is a big jump
05:09 PM jdh: sounds more like testing error
05:09 PM Loetmichel: filled her up before i started this morning... and thought checking the tyre pressure was a good idea
05:09 PM Loetmichel: was WAAAAY to low
05:09 PM Loetmichel: it has to be 2,5bar front and 2,8 back back ... all 4 wheels were below 2 bar
05:10 PM CaptHindsight: the tires on my truck hold up to 6 bar, but it would bounce off the road if the back isn't loaded full
05:11 PM CaptHindsight: they feel like solid blocks of rubber if over 2.5 bar
05:12 PM Loetmichel: the car has a "2,5/2.8 empty, 2.6/3.3 full" sticker in the fuel lid
05:19 PM XXCoder: Loetmichel: hehunderinflation sucks gas
05:20 PM Loetmichel: indeed!
05:20 PM XXCoder: need to check mine, been a bit
05:22 PM jdh: You can improve your gas mileage by 0.6% on average—up to 3% in some cases—by keeping your tires inflated to the proper pressure. Under-inflated tires can lower gas mileage by about 0.2% for every 1 psi drop in the average pressure of all tires.
05:24 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXb9SihjKsM&index=6&list=PLgxANEQzYmJ9dr3qRAe6aNKZUrs849Avv would take several minutes to weld a 500mm seam
05:24 PM SpeedEvil: CaptHindsight: explosive welding
05:24 PM CaptHindsight: but now I want one
05:26 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/61HbsrYlyic?t=24s
05:26 PM SpeedEvil: yeah
05:26 PM SpeedEvil: e-beam!
05:27 PM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: was looking at ways to weld SS film ~100um to a bag, like a juice box
05:28 PM SpeedEvil: :)
05:28 PM SpeedEvil: Fold it over several times, and run it through some big rollers.
05:28 PM SpeedEvil: I suspect that would crack it, not weld though.
05:28 PM CaptHindsight: to make a bag, like a juice box
05:28 PM SpeedEvil: I mean the edges
05:28 PM CaptHindsight: yeah seal roll
05:29 PM CaptHindsight: seam roll
05:29 PM SpeedEvil: CaptHindsight: next generation MREs?
05:29 PM CaptHindsight: similar
05:29 PM * SpeedEvil has been watching too many MRE tasting vids recently for no good reason.
05:29 PM CaptHindsight: oh no
05:30 PM CaptHindsight: have you ever had any that tasted OK?
05:30 PM SpeedEvil: Todays fun number. It takes about 3kW of LED lights constantly to provide enough potatos to support your calorific needs.
05:30 PM SpeedEvil: youtube.
05:31 PM CaptHindsight: LED grown potatoes?
05:31 PM SpeedEvil: yes.
05:33 PM CaptHindsight: sun, food and bio based life sure is inefficient
05:35 PM SpeedEvil: That's 3% or so, so it could be worse.
05:36 PM SpeedEvil: Field crops are way less efficient energy-wise
05:37 PM gloops: but sunlight and soil are free
05:38 PM SpeedEvil: Insimeplaces.
05:39 PM SpeedEvil: In some
05:39 PM gloops: dont live where they arent
05:40 PM gonzo_: wonder how long before the .gov try and tax sunlight
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: people were already getting concerned that large solar farms were going to suck it all up :)
05:46 PM jdh: only republican legislators
05:50 PM CaptHindsight: heh, yeah I think that's what the article said :)
05:51 PM syyl: like windturbines are creating storms?
05:51 PM CaptHindsight: slowing the earths winds
05:52 PM CaptHindsight: so whatever you have now might just get stuck on you
05:52 PM CaptHindsight: weather that is
05:52 PM syyl: thats ok
05:52 PM syyl: its dark right now
05:53 PM CaptHindsight: https://thebulletin.org/plant-could-save-civilization-if-we-let-it11826
05:54 PM CaptHindsight: Scientists Breeding a CO2-Reducing Superplant ^^
05:54 PM syyl: what could possibly go wrong
05:55 PM syyl: if scifi movies teached me anything
05:55 PM syyl: something like this will always end with the extinction of allmost all humans ;)
05:58 PM CaptHindsight: if you watch different scifi you can have different outcomes
05:59 PM syyl: the optimistic scifi?
05:59 PM syyl: ;)
05:59 PM CaptHindsight: last man on earth with broken glasses for instance
05:59 PM syyl: ops, not very optimistic
06:00 PM CaptHindsight: space wookies
07:20 PM AWG_: Just noticed Wheezy is hitting LTS end of life, what's next?
07:32 PM CaptHindsight: 5 years wow, went by fast
07:45 PM flyback: Tom_L,
07:46 PM flyback: have you seen the 3d sand mold printers yet?
07:46 PM flyback: ford couldn't buy them fast enough
07:46 PM flyback: they can spit out a new mold in hrs/days vs months
07:46 PM flyback: they can now afford to make defective molds on purpose to simulate not changing your oil enough etc
07:46 PM flyback: for testing
08:28 PM Tom_L: Lcvette i might try installing wheezy once more this evening
08:48 PM lcvette_: Tom_L: I just made my iso thumb drive, just dinged it was finished..lol
08:49 PM lcvette_: have about 45 minutes left in a movie im watching with the wife before she checks out for the night and im free to sneak out in the shop again
08:49 PM lcvette_: lol
08:49 PM lcvette_: printed my instructions as well
08:51 PM Tom_L: i can go thru it if you want
08:51 PM Tom_L: i did a dvd
08:51 PM lcvette_: yeah
08:52 PM lcvette_: i also found this tidbit which explains alot
08:52 PM lcvette_: on why i was having issues i think
08:52 PM lcvette_: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/issues/297
08:53 PM Tom_L: so for now as an end user you're probably better off with wheezy
08:54 PM Tom_L: haven't read it all yet..
08:55 PM lcvette_: yeah im goin WHEEZY BABY
08:55 PM lcvette_: lol
08:55 PM lcvette_: i ready my ass off last night
08:55 PM lcvette_: anout build bot and all sorts of stuff and it confused the hell out of me
08:55 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure what desktop is best on wheezy
08:55 PM Tom_L: i went with gnome but i got an error during the install on it
08:55 PM lcvette_: yeah i was gonna ask about that
08:56 PM Tom_L: that's just personal preference
08:56 PM Tom_L: i like mate myself
08:56 PM lcvette_: mate is good
08:56 PM Tom_L: but i don't think it's bundled in the 7.11 install
08:56 PM lcvette_: is there one without the bottom thingy
08:56 PM Tom_L: mate
08:56 PM lcvette_: nice
08:56 PM lcvette_: that thing takes up alot of screen space
08:57 PM Tom_L: that's why i did the full debian 9 install because the iso preselects a desktop for you
08:57 PM lcvette_: ah
08:57 PM Tom_L: they strip it down pretty bare for linuxcnc
08:57 PM Tom_L: i'm unsure which one i'll choose for wheezy
08:58 PM Tom_L: i think on the mill i just went with their default
08:58 PM Tom_L: and i don't remember what that was
08:58 PM Tom_L: hard to keep track of things here
08:58 PM lcvette_: in the instructions i get a little confused about section 6.
08:59 PM Tom_L: i've got probably 15 pcs
09:00 PM lcvette_: will the file i remove be the same if i am installing the amd64 version?
09:00 PM lcvette_: i figure it would be clearer when i got there to that point
09:00 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure what file you're referring to
09:01 PM lcvette_: Open Applications Menu > System > Synaptic Package Manager search for linux-image and right click on linux-image-3.2.0-4-686-pae and select Mark for Complete Removal. Do the same for linux-image-686-pae. Reboot.
09:02 PM Tom_L: they will be slightly different
09:02 PM lcvette_: ok
09:02 PM Tom_L: because you're running 64 bit and those are 32
09:02 PM Tom_L: i just guessed
09:03 PM lcvette_: thats what i was wondering
09:03 PM lcvette_: lol
09:03 PM Tom_L: and seemed to be ok
09:03 PM lcvette_: ok
09:03 PM Tom_L: semi educated guess..
09:03 PM lcvette_: ok
09:03 PM lcvette_: are you running 64?
09:03 PM Tom_L: i plan to for this
09:04 PM lcvette_: sweet
09:04 PM Tom_L: i'm starting the install
09:04 PM lcvette_: ok
09:04 PM Tom_L: if you don't want to make changes choose the graphical install from the menu
09:04 PM lcvette_: will i need an internet hardline connection?
09:05 PM Tom_L: yes for the one you downloaded
09:05 PM lcvette_: ok
09:05 PM Tom_L: if you want to install a different desktop choose Advanced Options
09:06 PM Tom_L: then Alternative Desktop Options
09:06 PM Tom_L: err Alternative Desktop Environments
09:06 PM Tom_L: and i've not tried any of those :D
09:07 PM Tom_L: i don't like xfce but i'll probably choose it
09:07 PM Tom_L: (bottom middle icons) i believe
09:08 PM Tom_L: i could load your bitfile on a test board i've got here and run your config if you want
09:11 PM Lcvette__: In the shop
09:13 PM Tom_L: do you have the .vhd file for your bitfile?
09:15 PM Lcvette__: Hang on just got everything setup and changed boot menu and boot screen up
09:15 PM Lcvette__: Coding advanced options
09:15 PM Lcvette__: Choosing
09:16 PM Lcvette__: .vhd bitfile?
09:16 PM Tom_L: the source for the bitfile you loaded into your 5i92
09:16 PM Tom_L: 7i02
09:17 PM Tom_L: damn..
09:17 PM Tom_L: 7i92
09:17 PM * Tom_L turns the light on so he can see the keyboard
09:17 PM Lcvette__: Lol
09:17 PM Lcvette__: I have it on my desktop
09:17 PM Lcvette__: On my windows pc
09:17 PM Lcvette__: From Mesa
09:19 PM Lcvette__: Or can download it on this computer once it's online
09:19 PM Lcvette__: It's a standard file
09:19 PM Tom_L: did you read the log after you timed out?
09:19 PM Tom_L: i can emulate your setup if you want
09:20 PM Lcvette__: Just did
09:20 PM Lcvette__: You type fast
09:20 PM Lcvette__: Hang on
09:21 PM Lcvette__: https://mesaus.com/info/mesaflash.html
09:21 PM Lcvette__: 7i92_7i77_7i76 is the one I use
09:21 PM Lcvette__: Xfce?
09:21 PM Lcvette__: Ok
09:21 PM Lcvette__: I'll use that to
09:22 PM Lcvette__: After I select it, then graphical install?
09:22 PM Lcvette__: Just like regular instructions say?
09:22 PM Tom_L: i think so yes
09:22 PM Lcvette__: And go from there?
09:22 PM Lcvette__: Ok
09:23 PM Tom_L: yeah just follow the bouncing ball
09:23 PM Tom_L: i've got 2 ethernet cards in mine and plan to configure the one to the card later
09:27 PM Tom_L: i added ssh to the install options too
09:27 PM Tom_L: don't need a print server so i unchecked that
09:29 PM Lcvette__: Has good timing
09:29 PM Lcvette__: Just got there
09:29 PM Lcvette__: What's she?
09:29 PM Tom_L: ssh is handy to have
09:29 PM Lcvette__: Ssh
09:29 PM Lcvette__: Ok
09:30 PM Lcvette__: I checked it regardless, lol just was curious
09:30 PM Lcvette__: Anything else?
09:30 PM Tom_L: secure socket shell
09:30 PM Tom_L: that's all i did there
09:30 PM Tom_L: for moving files around
09:30 PM Tom_L: etc
09:31 PM Lcvette__: Nice
09:32 PM Lcvette__: This suckers bigger than stretch
09:33 PM Lcvette__: Or we are figuring for the same files right now
09:33 PM Lcvette__: Lol
09:33 PM Lcvette__: Fighting
09:33 PM Tom_L: ?
09:33 PM Tom_L: i'm getting mine from the uni of texas
09:34 PM Lcvette__: Taking forever to download
09:34 PM Tom_L: did you pull up that install page?
09:34 PM Lcvette__: Not sure where moves coming from
09:35 PM Tom_itx: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_installing_on_debian_wheezy_with_preempt_rt_kernel
09:35 PM Tom_L: if you blasted thru it, debian.org probably
09:35 PM Tom_L: mine's done
09:35 PM Tom_L: now to install the preempt part
09:35 PM Lcvette__: Yeah
09:36 PM Lcvette__: Ok n it's installing now
09:36 PM Lcvette__: I printed the section for wheezy
09:37 PM Tom_L: i just pulled up the page so i can copy and paste the commands
09:37 PM Tom_L: in the terminal window
09:37 PM Lcvette__: I'm installing from thumb drive ISO
09:37 PM Lcvette__: Was to that wrong?
09:38 PM Tom_L: doesn't matter
09:38 PM Lcvette__: Ok
09:39 PM Lcvette__: Booting
09:40 PM Lcvette__: Default xsession or xfce session?
09:40 PM Tom_L: xsession for now
09:40 PM Tom_L: unless you like xfce
09:43 PM Lcvette__: Did your upgrade turn 0?
09:43 PM Lcvette__: Return
09:43 PM Tom_L: didn't do that yet
09:43 PM Lcvette__: Oh
09:43 PM Tom_L: installing some software first
09:43 PM Tom_L: like xchat, gedit
09:43 PM Lcvette__: Oh
09:43 PM Lcvette__: Ah
09:44 PM Tom_shop: xchat works
09:44 PM Lcvette__: Xfhat?
09:44 PM Lcvette__: Xchat?
09:44 PM Tom_shop: irc client
09:44 PM Lcvette__: Sudo apt-get install xchat
09:45 PM Lcvette__: Xchat*
09:45 PM Tom_shop: yeah, i did it from the synaptic package manager
09:45 PM Tom_shop: yes returned 0
09:46 PM Lcvette__: I don't know that way
09:46 PM Lcvette__: I installed gedit and xchat
09:46 PM Tom_shop: it's on the menu
09:46 PM Lcvette__: Never used xchat
09:46 PM Tom_shop: i use it on all the machines except one
09:47 PM andypugh: I wonder if watchers on an eBay listing guarantees an eventual bid?
09:48 PM Lcvette__: Is this the ircnet?
09:48 PM Lcvette__: Freenode
09:48 PM Tom_L: yeah
09:49 PM MarcelineVQ: andypugh: I bet it doesn't, probably just one of those annoyances, like reserve bids or whatever it is called when you bid and it tells you you have to bid more because there's a secret price that's already higher
09:50 PM lcvette: sweet
09:50 PM lcvette: im on xchat window
09:50 PM lcvette: much easier now
09:50 PM andypugh: I am trying to sell a miss-machined part. I am not expecting a lot for it, it just seems a shame to throw it away if someone can use it.
09:52 PM Tom_L: i probably should have waited on that until i had preempt loaded
09:52 PM Tom_L: it seems to have lost my settings for it now
09:52 PM lcvette: ah crap
09:53 PM Tom_L: maybe not..
09:53 PM Tom_shop: just had to kick it a bit
09:53 PM Tom_shop: uname -v
09:53 PM Tom_shop: #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 3.2.101-1
09:54 PM lcvette: im installing the preempt kernel now in temrinal
09:54 PM lcvette: ok its done
09:55 PM Tom_shop: after you reboot, pay attention to the boot option list
09:55 PM Tom_L: you will be removing some of them next
09:55 PM lcvette: ok
09:55 PM Tom_L: that's what you were asking about the pae thing
09:55 PM lcvette: yup
09:55 PM Tom_L: you want the 2 preempt rt ones left there
09:55 PM lcvette: ok
09:58 PM Lcvette__: I hit restart and I have a blank screen with mouse but nothing koves
09:58 PM Lcvette__: Moves
09:58 PM Tom_shop: shut it clear down and try again
09:58 PM Lcvette__: :/
09:58 PM Tom_shop: i had a pc that did that sometimes
09:59 PM MarcelineVQ: when you shut down during hardware troubleshooting it can be a good idea to toggle the power switch on the psu after it's shut down, give it a few secs to clear out before trying again
10:00 PM Lcvette__: Crap missed the boot options
10:00 PM MarcelineVQ: or one can pull the plug or toggle the power bar switch if that's more accesible
10:00 PM Lcvette__: Do I need to press a key
10:01 PM MarcelineVQ: depends on the bios, refer to your mobo manual. boot options are one of the f's usually, f8 or f10 or f12, or sometimes delete or insert
10:01 PM MarcelineVQ: most often delete, come to think of it, but read your manual :>
10:03 PM Tom_shop: if you move the arrow key during the boot options i think it will stop and wait for you
10:03 PM Lcvette__: Up
10:03 PM Lcvette__: Yup
10:03 PM Lcvette__: Ok I don't see the listed option
10:03 PM MarcelineVQ: oh you mean the bootloader options, hehe, thought you wanted the bios my bad
10:04 PM Tom_shop: hopefully i didn't remove the wrong os
10:04 PM Lcvette__: Do I want 3.2.0.-6-rt-amd64
10:04 PM Tom_shop: yes
10:05 PM Lcvette__: Ok
10:05 PM Lcvette__: Must be old outdated instructions
10:06 PM Tom_shop: for 32 bit
10:07 PM jthornton: turns out having a 5v and a 3.3v device on the i2c buss is bad
10:07 PM Lcvette__: Sweet I got the #1 smp preempt RT Debian message from unnamed -v
10:07 PM MarcelineVQ: jthornton: :O
10:07 PM MarcelineVQ: breaking bad, or just that a voltage drop can give wrong readings on 3.3 when it's expecting 5v high/low
10:08 PM jthornton: yea chicken door was not closed when I got home and I added the BME280 this morning so I had to take the OLED off
10:08 PM Tom_shop: lcvette_, once you go to the synaptic package manager and find the list keep the ones that have green boxes that say PREEMPT RT in the description
10:08 PM jthornton: something about I/O error lol
10:08 PM MarcelineVQ: jthornton: is this on your pi?
10:08 PM * Tom_shop checks his watch and wonders why JT-Shop is still up
10:09 PM jthornton: wow lcvette_ your still fighting with linux?
10:09 PM Tom_shop: he's installing wheezy
10:09 PM jthornton: yea my rpi
10:10 PM jthornton: went to a wedding in Fredricktown and had some dinner after
10:10 PM Tom_shop: the preempt rt directions should be updated on the webpage
10:10 PM jthornton: had a rain delay at the wedding with 60 mph winds and sideways rain for a while
10:10 PM Tom_shop: item 6 should include the 64bit options to remove as well
10:10 PM jthornton: my web page?
10:10 PM Tom_shop: no
10:10 PM Tom_shop: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_installing_on_debian_wheezy_with_preempt_rt_kernel
10:11 PM jthornton: yea I think that assumes you installed the 32bit
10:11 PM Tom_shop: it does
10:12 PM Tom_shop: not helpful for a noob installing 64 bit :)
10:12 PM jthornton: I'll fix that in the morning sorta past my bed time lol
10:13 PM Tom_shop: yeah i was surprised to see ya here now
10:13 PM Lcvette__: Ok I'm trying to figure what to remove
10:13 PM Lcvette__: I'm nervous
10:13 PM Tom_shop: Lcvette__, look at the descriptions
10:13 PM Tom_shop: keep anything that says PREEMPT RT on it
10:14 PM jthornton: when I get home late takes a bit to unwind and the chicken door was not closed
10:14 PM Tom_shop: that has a green box checked
10:14 PM Lcvette__: Ok
10:14 PM Tom_shop: there's also a alsa-basse to keep
10:14 PM jthornton: what's that?
10:15 PM Tom_shop: do the search like the directions say
10:15 PM Tom_shop: jthornton, no clue but it's installed
10:15 PM Tom_shop: alsa driver configuration files
10:15 PM Lcvette__: I did
10:15 PM Tom_shop: came up in the linux-image search in package manager
10:15 PM jthornton: is that something gomopappy needs?
10:15 PM Tom_shop: no clue
10:15 PM jthornton: oh
10:15 PM Lcvette__: There is alot
10:15 PM Tom_shop: i don't think so
10:16 PM Tom_shop: it's just part of this preempt install removal of old stuff
10:16 PM Tom_shop: Lcvette__, maybe 2 or 3 things
10:16 PM Lcvette__: Do I get rid of everything not saying preempt RT?
10:17 PM Tom_shop: nothing that isn't in a green box needs worrying about
10:17 PM Lcvette__: Or just get boxes
10:17 PM Lcvette__: Ok
10:17 PM Lcvette__: 6 green boxes
10:17 PM Tom_shop: find the ones with the green box that _AREN"T_ PREEMPT RT in the description and reomve them
10:17 PM Lcvette__: 2 preempt RT, one alsa
10:18 PM Lcvette__: Keep those
10:18 PM Tom_shop: keep alsa
10:18 PM Tom_shop: yes
10:18 PM Tom_shop: notice the different versions of rt
10:18 PM Lcvette__: Meta package?
10:18 PM Lcvette__: Yes
10:18 PM Tom_shop: i don't recall messing with that
10:18 PM jthornton: the documents are confusing with i386 and amd64 mixed together
10:19 PM Tom_shop: maybe differentiate between 32 and 64 on item 6.
10:20 PM Tom_shop: jthornton, how can i do a screen shot and paste it so he can see my list?
10:20 PM Lcvette__: So just the two
10:21 PM jthornton: screen shot should be in the accessories menu
10:21 PM Tom_shop: yeah i found it
10:21 PM Tom_shop: Lcvette__, i'm gonna post my list
10:21 PM Lcvette__: Ok
10:21 PM Lcvette__: I think I know
10:21 PM Lcvette__: Just hate gambling
10:22 PM jthornton: I think 1-6 should be for i386 then repeated for 64 bit just to be clear
10:23 PM Lcvette__: 3.2.0-4-amd64 and 3.2.0-6-amd64 remove
10:23 PM Tom_itx: one sec
10:23 PM Lcvette__: Ok
10:24 PM Tom_itx: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/files.png
10:24 PM * jthornton is going to have a glass of vino and chill out for a bit before retiring for the night
10:24 PM Tom_itx: later
10:24 PM Tom_itx: Lcvette__, that's what i've got left
10:25 PM Lcvette__: Later jt
10:25 PM Tom_itx: gonna reboot it now to make sure it's ok
10:26 PM Tom_itx: yup 2 items on the boot menu now
10:26 PM Tom_itx: rt and recovery rt
10:27 PM Lcvette__: Sweet, ok mine looks like yours now
10:28 PM Tom_shop: then just finish the install from that webpage
10:28 PM Lcvette__: Yup rebooting
10:29 PM Lcvette__: I did sit down this time and it's wanting to hang, is that normal?
10:29 PM Tom_shop: amounts to about 4 copy and pastes
10:29 PM Tom_shop: no
10:30 PM Tom_shop: shut the power down and try that
10:30 PM Tom_shop: i had one that did that all the time on a reboot
10:31 PM Tom_shop: gmocappy sim comes right up
10:31 PM Lcvette__: Nice!
10:32 PM Tom_shop: i'm too used to axis to use it though
10:33 PM Tom_shop: there is a way to auto login on a boot too but it's a bit different on wheezy
10:34 PM Lcvette__: Ok just did the rest of the instructions
10:34 PM Tom_shop: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/29173-auto-login-debian-wheezy
10:35 PM Lcvette__: Last one said: E: unable to locate package linuxcnc-uspace
10:36 PM Lcvette__: Oh reboot required
10:36 PM Lcvette__: Lol
10:41 PM Tom_itx: i think you have to be root to edit that lightdm.conf file
10:42 PM Tom_itx: but it allows you to start the pc without logging in every time
10:43 PM Lcvette__: I can't get linuxcnc
10:46 PM lcvette: cnc@cpe-2606-A000-FEC8-3700-0-0-0-5:~$ sudo apt-get install linuxcnc-uspace Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done E: Unable to locate package linuxcnc-uspace
10:46 PM lcvette: thoughts?
10:47 PM Tom_itx: i did mine from the texas university
10:47 PM Tom_itx: instead of debian.org
10:48 PM Tom_itx: i'm looking where to change your source download settings
10:49 PM Tom_itx: search for it in the synaptic package manager
10:49 PM Tom_itx: you can install it there
10:49 PM Tom_itx: see what happens
10:50 PM Lcvette__: It's working
10:58 PM Lcvette__: How do I find my IP address?
10:58 PM Tom_itx: dhcp assigned probably
10:58 PM Lcvette__: The one used for network manager
10:59 PM Tom_itx: icon upper right, right click on it
11:00 PM Tom_itx: connection information
11:00 PM Tom_itx: on that icon
11:00 PM Lcvette__: My others were like ep2s30
11:01 PM Lcvette__: Or something
11:01 PM Tom_itx: that wouldn't be an ip address
11:01 PM Lcvette__: Yeah I'm not sure what it's called
11:02 PM Lcvette__: Is what I used to setup networking with my 7i92
11:02 PM Tom_itx: how many ethernet cards are there?
11:03 PM Tom_itx: if just the one then yes
11:03 PM Lcvette__: 1
11:03 PM Tom_itx: and you won't have internet access when using it
11:03 PM Lcvette__: Need to figure out my wifi too
11:03 PM Tom_itx: because you will likely change it to 10.10.10.1 or such
11:04 PM Tom_itx: i'm shutting down for the night
11:04 PM lcvette: thanks a million Tom!!
11:04 PM lcvette: greatly appreciate your help!
11:04 PM Tom_L: take up again tomorrow
11:04 PM lcvette: sounds good!
11:04 PM Tom_L: maybe i can copy your configs over to this test pc
11:05 PM Tom_L: and download the bitfile to this spart 7i92 card
11:05 PM Tom_L: spare*
11:05 PM lcvette: yeah
11:05 PM lcvette: just tell me how to send them
11:05 PM Tom_L: another day..
11:05 PM lcvette: yup
11:15 PM flyback: btw
11:15 PM flyback: not that it probably matters that much for cnc due to low speeds
11:15 PM flyback: but broadcom and intel are the best
11:15 PM flyback: broadcom is pretty much no more though
11:16 PM flyback: I mean for nic chips
11:17 PM lcvette: flyback are you on wheezy?
11:19 PM flyback: no uCUNTu
11:19 PM flyback: sorry I never got into cnc
11:19 PM flyback: as much as I would love to
11:19 PM flyback: I got enough steppers
11:19 PM flyback: mabye next year
11:19 PM lcvette: gotcha
11:19 PM flyback: oh we got our own harbor frieght this year Tom_L
11:19 PM flyback: so I could consider the manual mill mods
11:19 PM flyback: :P
11:28 PM Tom_L: i use hf for one use tools
11:28 PM Tom_L: if that even
11:28 PM Tom_L: i had one drill that broke halfway thru the job
11:28 PM Tom_L: right angle head stripped out
11:29 PM flyback: yeah or kamakaze tools
11:29 PM flyback: drilling out a 1000 gallon rusty tank
11:29 PM flyback: don't really want to breech it with a $500 dewalt