#linuxcnc Logs

May 01 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:05 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
01:10 AM IchGucksLive: off 2 garden
01:43 AM Deejay: moin
04:09 AM Deejay: re
05:06 AM jthornton: morning
05:11 AM jthornton: 13:41:09 daylight today
05:12 AM SpeedEvil: 15:23 here
05:13 AM SpeedEvil: (sunrise-set
05:16 AM jthornton: I think that is what my chicken control calculates sunrise to sunset
05:17 AM jthornton: it tosses up a web page with coop status and event times
05:26 AM XXCoder: booyah
08:09 AM mtpocketscnc: morning everyone.
08:17 AM fragalot: hi
08:17 AM fragalot: mtpocketscnc: do you know what happened to your IRC client last night? it kept spamming the channel with join/quit messages
08:19 AM mtpocketscnc: not sure what it was. i run atomic on phone and when screen blanks it gets all goofy. maybe i'll just use computer for irc. it doesn't do it
08:20 AM sync: I have a weechat server running and connect to it with my phone
08:20 AM fragalot: yeah the phone IRC clients seem a bit naff
08:21 AM fragalot: phone operating systems like to shut certain apps off at random intervals when they aren't actively in use
08:23 AM mtpocketscnc: yeah is what seems to happen here. happens so fast it has to use alternate name. seems the standard name doesn't get signed out or whatever
08:26 AM fragalot: Right. I need a creative way to make a dovetail straight edge when the mill is out of commission, and the lathe isn't big enough.
08:26 AM fragalot: ideas? :D
08:28 AM jdh: chisel, time.
08:30 AM * JT-Shop needs to make a RPM chart for the Samson lathe for drilling...
08:30 AM mtpocketscnc: There on comp. Shouldn't see all those now today
08:31 AM fragalot: JT-Shop: I remember using a nice graph chart back when I was a student, but can't for the life of me find it
08:32 AM fragalot: it basically just had lines for diameter, surface speed & rpm
08:32 AM fragalot: in various materials
08:36 AM JT-Shop: I need to make one for each speed of the spindle
08:37 AM fragalot: https://image.slidesharecdn.com/chapter5cuttingspeed-131031112203-phpapp01/95/cutting-speed-5-638.jpg?cb=1383218613 <= far from what I remember, but gets the same result
08:41 AM JT-Shop: I need to make one for say 80 RPM and what diameter drills fall in that range for steel and alum
08:41 AM fragalot: oddball way of going about it, but sure
08:42 AM JT-Shop: well I have 8 speeds so works well for me
10:17 AM jdh: surely the defining characteristic is hole size, not current speed setting.
10:18 AM fragalot: jdh: I think he prefers looking it up backwards
10:20 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
10:20 AM fragalot: hi IchGucksLive
10:20 AM IchGucksLive: a wondeerfull day in germany
10:20 AM fragalot: :-)
10:20 AM IchGucksLive: somany guests we coudent cope
10:21 AM fragalot: :D
10:22 AM fragalot: friend of mine runs an outdoor adventure course.. he's quadrupled the amount of gueses he normally has in a year already this year
10:22 AM fragalot: i'm not sure how he manages to cope with that amount
10:25 AM IchGucksLive: we simply made a sign on the walkways SOLD OUT
10:26 AM IchGucksLive: the team have been prepared for 400-500 guests
10:26 AM IchGucksLive: well i woudt say more then 1k showed up on First of Mai event
10:27 AM fragalot: :)
10:27 AM IchGucksLive: gloops not online ?
10:27 AM fragalot: nop
10:33 AM IchGucksLive: im off till later
11:29 AM fragalot: gloops: ichs was looking for you
11:31 AM gloops: yeah? wonder what he wants
11:31 AM fragalot: no idea
11:32 AM gloops: ok thanks, dont think theres much i could help him with
11:40 AM hazzy-dev: I pulled the (structural) carpeting out of my 64 Corvair yesterday: https://i.imgur.com/Sn4U0U0.jpg
11:40 AM hazzy-dev: Looks like I will be doing some fab work :(
11:40 AM fragalot: oh dear
11:41 AM fragalot: put the carpet back & paint it with polyurethane or epoxy
11:41 AM fragalot: :P
11:42 AM fragalot: jokes aside, that is well beyond "some fab work"
11:42 AM hazzy-dev: A previous owner had put down fiberglass, I think it trapped water and made it worse
11:43 AM fragalot: it will have
11:43 AM hazzy-dev: I was thinking about painting it with POR 15 and using THICK rubber floor matting :D
11:43 AM gloops: dont go over any speed bumps in that lol
11:44 AM fragalot: hazzy-dev: flintstones car
11:44 AM gloops: new floor pans, sills probably need doing + chassis
11:44 AM hazzy-dev: gloops: on the bright side, if the breaks fail I can stick my foot thru the floor to stop
11:44 AM gloops: it will snap
11:44 AM jdh: that would be unsafe at any spees
11:44 AM jdh: d
11:44 AM hazzy-dev: jdh: LOL
11:45 AM jdh: <old
11:45 AM gloops: years ago i helped someone i knew with an old escort mexico in similar condition, it was probably the job that taught me forever, never even think about taking something like that on for money
11:46 AM fragalot: lol yeah.
11:47 AM hazzy-dev: jdh: it is amazing how many young people know about unsafe at any speed, pull up at any gas station and sure to get comments on that
11:47 AM fragalot: it's a shame they didn't build the corvairs like they built trabants
11:47 AM fragalot: with a leaky 2stroke exhaust to coat the underside in oil
11:48 AM jdh: leaky oildidn't help MG's
11:48 AM hazzy-dev: fragalot: Tridents? For real!
11:48 AM fragalot: jdh: you have to vaporize it at the front first
11:48 AM fragalot: in a nice thick blue cloud
11:48 AM gloops: waxoyl does some good, sump oil works the same - drill every cavity and get some oil blasted in
11:49 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:49 AM gloops: evening
11:49 AM hazzy-dev: This is the first american car I have worked on. I am surprised to find that the build quality is much better than the AHs and MGs, hehe
11:49 AM fragalot: I had a '58 trabant that did not have a spot of rust on it (excluding a small gap in the wheel well)
11:49 AM fragalot: the rest was coated in a very thick greasy layer of oily grime :P
11:50 AM IchGucksLive: 1200 hits todya on YT
11:50 AM fragalot: when I got that thing it was already consumed by a bush, pulled it out, weeded the engine bay, replaced stale fuel.. it ran. Poorly.. but it ran :D
11:50 AM gloops: nice car the corvair though, trying to think which big film i saw those in
11:51 AM IchGucksLive: gloops, prices on alcol gone up from today
11:51 AM gloops: https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/ypUKzaRkAXJQFzz9QF6lwg--~C/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2g9NzIwO3E9ODA7dz05NjA-/http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/originals/43/74/35/4374359ab71e0e96e6cb3d444d13c6bd.jpg
11:51 AM gloops: Ichs youll have to cut down now lol
11:51 AM fragalot: hazzy-dev: are you going to buy replacement panels or fab your own?
11:52 AM hazzy-dev: fragalot: My sister lives in Canada and they spray the whole undercarriage of their sprinter with grease each fall, needless to say that thing is a nightmare to work on, but very little rust
11:52 AM gloops: Ichs you should be making some money from advertising on YT
11:52 AM IchGucksLive: gloops, all free
11:52 AM fragalot: until I used someone elses' laptop once I had no idea youtube had ads
11:53 AM hazzy-dev: fragalot: Trying to decide, its about $400 for new floors, and I have acsess to bead rollers and English wheels so I can make them pretty easily
11:53 AM gloops: goes to show how many people are making cnc machines though 1200 hits a day
11:53 AM fragalot: 10 minute unskippable ad to watch a 3 minute video on how to do CPR? no thanks.
11:53 AM roycroft: por-15 is amazing stuff
11:53 AM roycroft: keep this in mind though:
11:53 AM IchGucksLive: gloops, about 10.000 Mashine Build a week
11:53 AM fragalot: hazzy-dev: still going to be $100 in materials and god knows how many days to DIY it
11:54 AM roycroft: if you apply por-15 one something that may be exposed to any uv light you might top-coat it
11:54 AM hazzy-dev: fragalot: I know, that is why I can't decide!
11:54 AM roycroft: and you need to do so quickly
11:54 AM roycroft: if you let it sit too long (more than a day or so) you'll have to use tie-coat to bond your top coat to the por-15, and the tie coat doesn't always work
11:54 AM gloops: oxy/acetylene welding is great for car work, slower but better, you find a lot of edges that need bending down or generally tapping around, bit of heat you can press everything snug
11:54 AM roycroft: and you will never EVER be able to remove the por-15 once applied
11:54 AM hazzy-dev: thanks roycroft, I have head that. Do you think it would be OK to use por15 on wheels that will have caps?
11:55 AM hazzy-dev: *heard
11:55 AM roycroft: and if you can't bond a top coat to it you will spend tens of hours trying to scuff it up well enough for a top coat to bind
11:55 AM gloops: the rules changed here, before you could tack weld 50/50 now its 100% welded all round
11:55 AM roycroft: and even then it might not work
11:55 AM roycroft: i have never used it on wheels, but some folks do
11:55 AM fragalot: gloops: rules for what,
11:56 AM roycroft: the stuff sets up almost like a ceramic coating
11:56 AM gloops: fragalot welding on cars for the MOT
11:56 AM fragalot: gloops: oh right
11:56 AM gloops: not nearly so much car welding these days
11:57 AM fragalot: I remember from my time in the US though that is absolutely batshit insane what is allowed on the roads
11:57 AM * hazzy-dev goes off to buy a can of por15
11:57 AM CaptHindsight: hazzy-dev: once you pull it apart you'll find rust everywhere else in that body
11:58 AM gloops: with bigger projects you have to be careful, you go chopping all the floor pans out you might be in a very structurally weak shell, and good chance it will be twisted when you weld it up, they generally jig them for that much work
11:58 AM CaptHindsight: save your money and get another classic car
11:58 AM gloops: CaptHindsight thats where you end up putting patces on to weld your patches to lol
11:59 AM fragalot: and catching the wiring harness on fire
11:59 AM hazzy-dev: CaptHindsight: I was worried about that, but I have found very little rust elsewhere, most of the underside is still original paint in decent shape, so I think at some point the windows leaked and the carpet held the water and that is why the floor rusted out
12:01 PM hazzy-dev: Fenders and rockers are in very good shape
12:05 PM CaptHindsight: hazzy-dev: https://www.c2cfabrication.com/collections/chevrolet-corvair-parts/floor-pan
12:06 PM fragalot: hazzy-dev: don't worry, you'll still get to use your bead rollers and english wheel making the pre-fab panels fit :-)
12:07 PM gloops: yeah buy the panels
12:08 PM gloops: they used to do 2 types - cover panel or or replacement, one for fitting over the old one, the other if youre chopping out
12:08 PM gloops: none of them ever fit anyway
12:08 PM CaptHindsight: hazzy-dev: http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,584596
12:13 PM hazzy-dev: Thanks Captan! If I purchase panels trying to decide between the C2C and the Clark's
12:13 PM hazzy-dev: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog.cgi?function=goto&catalog=MAIN&section=MAIN&page=190
12:14 PM hazzy-dev: The Clark's seems to cover more of the floor
12:14 PM hazzy-dev: but more $$$
12:15 PM CaptHindsight: I used to restore and mod cars of that era, but never a Corvair
12:16 PM CaptHindsight: but nothing ever fits right, so like fragalot said, you'll be cutting, bending, etc
12:17 PM CaptHindsight: but I'd start with the panels vs scratch
12:17 PM fragalot: Aye
12:17 PM fragalot: they save you a LOT of time and frustration
12:17 PM fragalot: and there's enough of that already even with premade panels :P
12:19 PM CaptHindsight: I just did wheel arches, rockers and floor pans on something I thought would be a few patches and new paint
12:19 PM gloops: not so bad if you get a basic fit, tack one point down and flatten the surrounding area while its hot, getting edges down for welding is the main problem
12:20 PM gloops: and avoiding setting fire to any of the old underseal or that black crap they coat eveything in, very short time from a small flickering flame or wisp of smoke to a fireball
12:21 PM fragalot: main thing I learned is to check if nobody placed a haybale sized wad of 000 steel wool in a rack behind you.
12:21 PM fragalot: because you only notice when you think to yourself "boy, it sure is hot in here"
12:21 PM HighInBC: will keep that in mind
12:21 PM CaptHindsight: nah, lets make a list of stupid obvious things to avoid
12:22 PM gloops: yeah, you get a feeling for it, the heat and smells from what youre doing, and then that barely noticeable little bit more than usual
12:22 PM HighInBC: using cyanoacrylate to fix a tear in your cotton jeans, while wearing them
12:22 PM hazzy-dev: CaptHindsight: I saw pictures of the arches you repaired on the Nissan(?) looked good!
12:23 PM ziper: link?
12:24 PM ziper: i'm thinking about using fiberglass on my datsun because I am so used to it after doing so much boat work
12:25 PM gloops: i had a vw passat estate go up on me while i was driving it, i think i left the handbrake on partially, didnt know anything, van behind was flashing, noticed a bit of smoke in the back window..oh ill pull over - within id say 4 minutes of stopping the car was engulfed in flames
12:28 PM sync: my eurovan was on fire a week ago
12:28 PM sync: something around the turbo is leaking oil
12:28 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8
12:31 PM gloops: did you get the fire out sync?
12:31 PM hazzy-dev: Got the rocker trim off and there is hardly any rust inside or out \O/
12:33 PM sync: it stopped on it own gloops
12:38 PM hazzy-dev: I carry a big extinguisher in the trunk and a small one in the glove compartment in all my cars
12:38 PM hazzy-dev: I have never had a car fire myself, but once there was a car on the side of road with just a smolder and I could have saved his car it I had one with me, but alas, we just had to sit back and watch it grow out of control
12:39 PM hazzy-dev: Their also handy for starving a run away diesel for oxygen
12:40 PM gloops: yeah not much time if it gets hold, by the time youve looked where the smokes coming from, realised you cant get to smother it or swat it, stood back for a think - too late
12:40 PM CaptHindsight: I learned the hard way on one of my first cars..
12:40 PM Rab: You never truly own a vehicle until you've set it on fire.
12:40 PM Rab: I've done it to cars, motorcycles, school bus...
12:40 PM CaptHindsight: had just added a bunch of new performance parts and wanted to take it out around the block but left the air filter off..
12:41 PM Rab: A friend of mine had his van converted to dual-fuel on gas and propane. Something happened at a stop light and the gas fuel system went up in flames...he got it put out and only drove on propane after that.
12:41 PM CaptHindsight: backfired, engine fire.... garden hose from side of someones house
12:42 PM CaptHindsight: saved the car but melted all the plastic under and around the hood plus the hood paint
12:42 PM fragalot: are fire extinguishers not a legal requirement in cars in the USA then?
12:42 PM Rab: fragalot, lol, no
12:42 PM fragalot: we're required to have at least one of those tiny "maybe if you catch it before it's an actual fire" ones
12:43 PM hazzy-dev: CaptHindsight: The car had plastic on it? Gross
12:43 PM hazzy-dev: :)
12:43 PM CaptHindsight: hazzy-dev: was a 69 Chevy, plastic grates over the cowl in front of the windshield
12:44 PM fragalot: even project binky has metal grates! :P
12:46 PM CaptHindsight: http://image.superchevy.com/f/9910264+w640+h640+q80+re0+cr1+st0/sucs_0732_02_z%2Bchevy_chevelle%2Brpo_l79_327_engine.jpg
12:47 PM CaptHindsight: back when 6L engines were considered small
12:48 PM CaptHindsight: lawn mowers were at least 2L
12:48 PM fragalot: yet the standard for new cars in europe today is 1L
12:50 PM CaptHindsight: per cylinder? :)
12:50 PM fragalot: :p
12:50 PM fragalot: no, seriously, my next car is likely to be a 1L gasser
12:51 PM gloops: expected lifetime mileage has also gone up sharply, funnily enough
12:51 PM gloops: 2-300k miles not uncommon
12:51 PM fragalot: that's because they inject the fuel better than they used to
12:52 PM fragalot: they used to have to inject everything required for the burn at the very start of the stroke, or just before
12:52 PM fragalot: resulting in a massive pressure surge at the beginning just so it'd still have some pressure left at the end
12:52 PM fragalot: with modern injectors they can inject at 20 intervals during the stroke to get the right pressure at the right point of travel of the piston
12:53 PM fragalot: results in more torque, and a much easier life on all of the components
12:53 PM gloops: thats why i like the peugeot 306 d turbo
12:53 PM gloops: early attempt at diesel turbo, did quite get the injection right
12:53 PM gloops: didnt
12:55 PM sync: fragalot: that's mostly done for comfort
12:55 PM fragalot: sync: and power/lifetime
12:55 PM sync: not really, component life is not majorly influenced by that
12:56 PM fragalot: it doesn't make sense to have to build up over 200 bar at the top end of the piston stroke
12:56 PM fragalot: but it does make sense to have that 200 bar when the crank is at 90°
12:56 PM fragalot: so to get 200 bar at a 90° crank angle, you have to start with 400
12:57 PM gloops: no smoke, no poke! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cl8UmgSzck
12:57 PM fragalot: and putting 400 bars (or whatever it is) on the valves and piston rings, does increase wear
12:58 PM sync: peak cylinder pressure is still where it ever was
12:58 PM sync: read the OEM development documentation
01:01 PM fragalot: alright. I was wrong - it is indeed still the same, however smoother running engines still typically last longer :P
01:02 PM gloops: the peugeot diesels have had a repuation for being sound for some time, the black cabs in london use them
01:02 PM gloops: and they cover some miles
01:03 PM sync: fragalot: they just run quieter
01:03 PM sync: even my 20 year old mechanical diesel has two stage injection
01:03 PM sync: it's good for emissions and driver comfort
01:07 PM gloops: so what is reponsible for increased engine life?
01:08 PM fragalot: engineering? :P
01:08 PM fragalot: Hi miss0r
01:08 PM fragalot: good news.
01:08 PM miss0r: o.0
01:08 PM fragalot: the rf45's bow is mostly gone
01:08 PM miss0r: Dit you light a bonfire under it and hope for the best?
01:09 PM fragalot: you know how they say when rough scraping you should aim to achieve coffee ground sized shavings?
01:09 PM fragalot: I went for full bean sized ones
01:09 PM miss0r: do you consider throwing it over the fense as 'mostly gone'?
01:09 PM fragalot: hahah
01:09 PM miss0r: hehe
01:09 PM miss0r: so you gave it a good rough scraping then?
01:09 PM fragalot: I am however in need of a proper dovetail straightedge as mine can't quite reach into the abyss that is the dovetail throat
01:10 PM fragalot: yeah
01:10 PM miss0r: you 'could' scrape one :D
01:10 PM fragalot: don't have any material on hand long enough, lol
01:10 PM fragalot: plus I can't figure out how to do the angle part without hating myself
01:10 PM miss0r: oh, you can't
01:11 PM fragalot: the lathe isn't big enough to do it on there
01:11 PM miss0r: :)
01:11 PM miss0r: all solutions will cause you to hate yourself
01:11 PM fragalot: yeah
01:11 PM fragalot: how did your greasefest go?
01:12 PM miss0r: so are you another one of those 'all talk no pictures'-kinda guy?
01:12 PM fragalot: yes
01:12 PM miss0r: :] The greasefest went great
01:12 PM miss0r: My black leather safety shoes look like new now
01:13 PM miss0r: But to be honnest it was more of a 68-oil fest
01:13 PM miss0r: I will be back in about 30 minuts for some light machining :] First I need to go do the books, bbiab
01:21 PM gloops: i actually saved an ancient cast drain cover and frame today, i looked at the frame, which is also cast, and thought - that is a machine frame, lol, i put a load of scrap out this morning
01:24 PM syyl: i just made the cutest cast iron straight edge.. ;)
01:25 PM syyl: maybe 100mm long, 20x10ish in cross section
01:25 PM fragalot: syyl: pics? :p
01:25 PM syyl: pulling the photos from the sd card at the moment ;)
02:04 PM miss0r: syyl: I'm sure it made a hell of a mess, anyway :D
02:19 PM syyl: nope, just bandsaw and surface grinder
02:20 PM syyl: before scraping
02:20 PM fragalot: I really should put a speed controller on my bandsaw..
02:20 PM miss0r: nice, looking forward to those pictures
02:21 PM miss0r: speaking of cast iron. I have two CI plates here with me, I need to mill a hole in each for a pressure gauge
02:21 PM miss0r: (brought home from the grease fest)
02:22 PM fragalot: good job you haven't recently replaced all of your coolant
02:22 PM fragalot: again.
02:25 PM miss0r: ....
02:25 PM miss0r: I'll run this dry
02:25 PM fragalot: :P
02:28 PM miss0r: "bite the pillow, i'm going in dry"
02:30 PM fragalot: miss0r: is that what she said?
02:31 PM miss0r: ^^... I wouldn't know, I just got back from the grease fest, there nothing goes anywhere dry
02:36 PM miss0r: lets see how nasty this gets :D
02:36 PM * miss0r is running the mill
02:38 PM * fragalot blows some compressed air at it
02:41 PM miss0r: forget compressed air, some utter retarted fuckwhit forgot to turn off the coolant...!
02:41 PM miss0r: I JUST CHANGED IT OUT !
02:41 PM fragalot: >.<
02:45 PM miss0r: And apparently I made a mistake when I added my voice command module to the cnc. It did not react to "no, No, NO NO NO NO".. like at all!
02:45 PM fragalot: oh no it did
02:45 PM fragalot: but it had to send it over 2400baud
02:45 PM miss0r: On the bright side; I do not have graphite dust floating in the air at the moment...
02:45 PM miss0r: :D
02:46 PM miss0r: I'm pretty sure it ignored me completely
02:47 PM miss0r: Well, I did get a quite excellent surface finish. Too bad it is going to be locked away behind a pressure gauge :-/
02:47 PM fragalot: and covered in paint first to protect it from rusting?
02:48 PM miss0r: yep
02:49 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/South-Bend-Model-A-lathe/112964635447? american lathe in wales, not going to wales...nice colour though
02:52 PM fragalot: nice chuck key holder
02:53 PM gloops: proper useful lathe - nobody wants https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Herbert-Capstan-Lathe/273185170208?
02:54 PM fragalot: typically the prices only go up at the last day though
02:54 PM gloops: too big
02:54 PM SpeedEvil: Saying no paypal, large, collection only all tank the prices
02:55 PM fragalot: true, hadn't scrolled down further
02:55 PM SpeedEvil: Forgetting to actually give basic details isn't great either.
02:55 PM SpeedEvil: I mean - yes - people can google tne model number, but...
02:55 PM gloops: well, anyone who knows a bit can see what it is
02:56 PM gloops: good capstan lathe you cant go wrong
02:56 PM roycroft: i'd risk a bank transfer of a couple quid
02:57 PM fragalot: my main issue with that lathe is that it's the size of my whole shed
02:58 PM SpeedEvil: fragalot: nice new cast iron roof in the background
02:58 PM gloops: thats the problem, these old machines are mainly going as garage toys, serious investors are all cnc now
02:58 PM fragalot: xD
02:59 PM gloops: its too big for the average garage
02:59 PM gloops: in the right hands capable of good fast production, but when did you last see a job vacancy for a capstan turner
03:02 PM roycroft: the guy won't post it to the us anyway
03:02 PM roycroft: so i guess it's no big deal that he won't take paypal
03:03 PM gregcnc_: don't let those issues stop you
03:05 PM miss0r: I'll call it a night, see you guys around
03:14 PM roycroft: my biggest concern with that listing is the seller's feedback
03:14 PM roycroft: while it's 100% positive, there are only 11 feebacks
03:14 PM SpeedEvil: Yeah - well - you turn up and if there is a lathe shaped object, you give him money.
03:17 PM gloops: you turn up and it isnt right, your money stays in your pocket
03:17 PM gloops: you also get to tell him hes a dick to his face
03:27 PM Deejay: namd
03:28 PM gloops: Deejay?
03:31 PM gloops: ive just eaten my first catfish, Basa
03:31 PM gloops: i dont think ill go out of my way to eat one again
03:32 PM devlap: Hi. I have a 6040 engraving machine. It's currently setup for Mach3 on USB, but I wanted to get it working with LinuxCNC. What kind of hardware is needed to replace the USB?
03:33 PM gloops: devlap, parallel port or ethernet connection
03:33 PM gloops: - mesa
03:35 PM devlap: Is there details on there what all the boards are?
03:36 PM gloops: there are a few mesa specialists in here, they also stock some hardware for sale
03:37 PM gloops: what problems are you having with your current setup?
03:38 PM devlap: It's usb stock. I got a Mach3 Interface Board which has parallel port on it. I didn't have a place I think to wire the FWD pin from the VFD to somewhere on the board.
03:39 PM devlap: https://aws.robu.in/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/120.jpg is the board.
03:40 PM gloops: yes you can control your vfd/spindle with that board
03:40 PM devlap: I never really ran the engraver because its been USB and I was having issues I was told might be USB related.
03:40 PM devlap: I'm just not sure where to put the FWD wire like I said.
03:41 PM devlap: Everything else wired pretty straight forward.
03:41 PM gloops: the fwd goes to the relay pin
03:42 PM gloops: 2nd pin up on the left side, looking at it as you posted
03:42 PM devlap: second pin towards the black cap, or towards the bottom of the board
03:42 PM devlap: Thats the PWM 0-10V puit
03:42 PM gloops: counting from the bottom of the board
03:42 PM devlap: out*
03:43 PM devlap: From the bottom its...
03:43 PM devlap: chinese letters.
03:43 PM devlap: A picture I have says z axis limit switch though
03:43 PM devlap: I think thats reversed.
03:44 PM devlap: Yea PWM 0-10V out
03:44 PM gloops: http://www.uruktech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/214-MACH3-5.jpg
03:46 PM gloops: 1st pin up will be relay gnd, 2nd pin - relay +
03:46 PM gloops: then you have 12-24v supply and gnd
03:47 PM gloops: the relay activates the spindle, 0-10v controls spindle speed
03:54 PM devlap: Ok makes sense. On my USB board I have 4 pins to the VFD, Red/FWD Blue/GND Green/10V OUT and Yellow/VR=10V. On the VFD these are Red/X1, Blue/COM, Green/AIN1, Yellow/12V
03:56 PM gloops: have you supplied the breakout board with 12-24v?
03:57 PM devlap: No. The 6040Z has a 24V PSU in it, and I think the old board was supplied via the VFD connection? not sure.
03:57 PM devlap: I guesss the USB could've powered it too.
03:58 PM gloops: the usb only supplies 5v, the pwm needs 12v supply, you probably can take one from the vfd
04:00 PM devlap: http://www.cnc-club.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=87990&mode=view&mt=1 this looks pretty close to my board. So I had the bottom motor plugs populated, those are one to one on the new board. The top right has a 4 pin header, thats what I'm trying to map.
04:00 PM devlap: And I need 12V I think thats coming from the VFD as the yellow line? Or thats an input to the VFD
04:00 PM Deejay: gn8
04:01 PM gloops: does it say 12v out, on the vfd?
04:02 PM devlap: It just says 12V on the pcb. its wired to VR=10V on the usb controller
04:04 PM gloops: basically, if you are using the mach3 bob, you need a wire from the relay+ to fwd on the vfd, you need a 12v supply to the 12-24v pin on the bob, you need a wire from 0-10v on the bob to 10vin on the vfd - connect the grounds accordingly
04:04 PM gloops: the relay and pwm wont work without 12-24v supply
04:04 PM gloops: nor will the input switches on the other side
04:08 PM devlap: Ok so my VFD says X1 which was wired to the usb FWD, that is "Multifunctional Input X1, which is factory default a "Forward run", and its a digital input. AIN1 is an analog setting input, for "Frequency Settingl; PID Feedback; PID Setting" so thats the 0-10 on the bob
04:08 PM devlap: relay+ is the digital setting.
04:09 PM devlap: x1
04:09 PM devlap: ain1 is the control input for speed. so I have gnd and 12v wires left.
04:09 PM devlap: The VFD says the 12V has 20ma output capacity
04:09 PM gloops: yes, thats the middle pins on the mach3 bob
04:09 PM devlap: Is that enough to run the board?
04:10 PM gloops: youll find out if the led lights up
04:10 PM devlap: fair enough.
04:11 PM devlap: Whats "Spindle Switch" in the picture of the parallel board?
04:11 PM gloops: whatever you do dont connect the 12v to the output section
04:11 PM gloops: thats the relay, on/off for the spindle
04:11 PM gloops: that goes to FWD
04:12 PM devlap: Ok. and the bottom 0-10 is the AIN1
04:12 PM devlap: Are the grounds should be all tied together?
04:12 PM gloops: i dont know for random vfds, its the 10v in pin
04:13 PM gloops: the grounds are connected to the vfd
04:13 PM gloops: any manual or handbook with the vfd?
04:13 PM devlap: VR=10v I'm guessing thats voltage reference for AIN1 or 10V in
04:13 PM devlap: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2017/02/NOWFOREVER-MANUAL-E-100.pdf I think this is it.
04:14 PM devlap: I'm either using the yellow 12V line from the VFD, or using 24V off of the PSU.
04:16 PM gloops: well, once you get it working and get the idea of how it works you can change things like that later
04:17 PM devlap: Hmm ok. well thanks ill have to give it a go.
04:17 PM gloops: if you get the power supply right, and the relay/switch, youll hear the relay clicking when you power on/off the spindle
04:18 PM gloops: that board also lights an led when it gets 12-24v
04:20 PM MarcelineVQ: iirc the led for when it has 12-24v is on the limit siwtch side
04:20 PM gloops: right
04:21 PM devlap: hmm my strippers seemed to have walked away again
04:22 PM devlap: Going to go track them down and report back after redoing it.
04:24 PM devlap: which of the relay pins gets X1
04:25 PM devlap: 2nd pin down, so what goes on relay ground
04:25 PM gloops: a wire to the vfd ground
04:25 PM devlap: can I share the VFDs blue COM between the 12V gnd and the relay gnd?
04:26 PM gloops: check the manual, some have seperate grounds, some use 1
04:28 PM gloops: a regular in here made a youtube vid, ill find it
04:28 PM MarcelineVQ: dis? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpb9JUaWl7M
04:30 PM gloops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpb9JUaWl7M
04:30 PM gloops: yes
04:31 PM devlap: It says to isolate around 3:06 but im having trouble understanding fully.
04:31 PM devlap: ACM and DCM, analog common and digital common
04:32 PM devlap: I think he said really nice firework.
04:33 PM gloops: almost yes
04:34 PM gloops: Ichs knows quite a bit about diy cnc machines, he makes them for schools and so on, sometimes a few a day
04:36 PM devlap: ok it looks like I do have an analog input common and a gitial input common
04:37 PM devlap: So this parallel port wont run in reverse then?
04:38 PM gloops: how do you mean?
04:38 PM MarcelineVQ: he means there's no wiring for REV with the single relay setup
04:38 PM devlap: X1 is a digital forward signal. X2 is t he reverse signal but not wired.
04:39 PM gloops: ahh, no
04:39 PM gloops: you wont need reverse, will you?
04:39 PM MarcelineVQ: I'm hoping to control mine with rs 485, if I can get it figured out hehe
04:39 PM devlap: not sure
04:41 PM devlap: might be easier to cut certain features
04:41 PM MarcelineVQ: using this sort of thing http://artofcircuits.com/product/ch340-usb-rs485-converter to control the spindle using modbus
04:42 PM MarcelineVQ: e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NF8EFoPlrk
04:43 PM gloops: yeah saw someone using one of those the other day, seems to be getting popular
04:43 PM gloops: devlap you can get basically the same bob with more relays
04:44 PM devlap: yea my vfd does modbus it says too
04:44 PM MarcelineVQ: If you're fine with just FWD + speed for now that bob you have is fine
04:45 PM devlap: Just gotta figure out which common the the VFD is which.
04:46 PM devlap: think i almost got it
04:51 PM devlap: Yea not sure if the 12v gnd should be the ACM or DCM
04:55 PM andypugh: That CH340 dongle has no ground connector.
04:56 PM MarcelineVQ: devlap: you pulling 12v off the vfd? it should have its own ground, possibly labeled COM
04:56 PM MarcelineVQ: page 16 on your manual suggests that at least
04:57 PM andypugh: This is how I hacked one of them to connect to a motherboard USB port rather than have it stick out the back panel: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/18-computer/30675-on-motherboard-modbus-rs485-connection/72737
04:57 PM MarcelineVQ: andypugh: I've done pretty much no research on it since I'm not using spindles yet, what problem does not having a ground on that cause? possible pc damage?
04:57 PM MarcelineVQ: oh neat you've got a page on it
04:58 PM devlap: https://ibb.co/myDmZS
04:58 PM devlap: So you can see I have x1, x2, x3, x4 COM
04:58 PM devlap: I think that row is the digital com
04:58 PM andypugh: It’s just that modbus uses a shielded cable but those dongles provide nowhere to connect it.
04:58 PM devlap: and then COM AO1 AIN1 AIN2 12V, I think that 12v is analog out 12v and that com is analog com
04:59 PM devlap: What I don't see is the 12V supply in/out
04:59 PM MarcelineVQ: andypugh: gotcha, thank you
04:59 PM devlap: You can see how i wired the parallel on the left
05:00 PM devlap: I think the blue com has to go to the ACM
05:00 PM devlap: which is the GND for the 0-10 in
05:00 PM devlap: that just leave the 12v gnd, not sure what on the VFD is safe to use.
05:02 PM andypugh: I ended up using DMX cable for the modbus link. Comes in prety colours and is 2-core + shield: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Van-Damme-Digi-Tour-DMX-2-Core-and-Screen-AES-EBU-Balanced-Lighting-268-482-00/152202931946?hash=item2370006eea:g:wroAAOSw6n5XrZMV
05:03 PM MarcelineVQ: devlap: yeah it's awfully hard to tell which com there is the appropriate one for the 12v, the manual is suggesting there's 3 but can only see 2 in pic
05:04 PM devlap: which is safe to use then for the 12V gnd?
05:04 PM devlap: He said fireworks.
05:06 PM MarcelineVQ: If you have to choose one I'd try analog com, since page 19 says 12v can be used as analog input power, don't be in a rush though, check things out as much as you can
05:09 PM devlap: I'd have to concur with that.
05:09 PM devlap: I don't see any other way.
05:10 PM MarcelineVQ: I just wish I knew why it was listing 3 COM in the schematic and description
05:12 PM MarcelineVQ: actually there's 4-5's COM between the schematic and description geeze
05:13 PM devlap: yea, well most of them are a shared analog com
05:13 PM devlap: the best part is, even though the top row i think is digital com, it doesnt have to be.
05:14 PM devlap: I just assumed since its in the row with the X# digitals, it must be
05:15 PM MarcelineVQ: it's a reasonable asumption, the rs-485 terminals are there too, hopefully it's a reasonable piece of hardware
05:17 PM andypugh: Nice network cabling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY1XB0rrYes
05:19 PM MarcelineVQ: that would have been a hectic install wow
05:20 PM devlap: I thought my 250 run cabling was nice.
05:21 PM devlap: now replace a cable in the middle of a bunch :)
05:22 PM devlap: 1 cable, 10 pounds of zipties to replace.
05:22 PM devlap: So great news. It didn't catch on fire when I turned it on.
05:22 PM MarcelineVQ: I think those are cable combs which would make it much easier, though not easy
05:22 PM MarcelineVQ: They might not be though, I can't tell on my potato monitor
05:23 PM devlap: Also, when I switch on the VFD, I get a light on the bob.
05:23 PM MarcelineVQ: nah some are at angles, you're right
05:23 PM MarcelineVQ: devlap: sounds like progress
06:13 PM devlap: looks like i got some microorganisms in my water tank.
06:14 PM devlap: white stringy mold.
06:15 PM devlap: Guess im not running the pump just yet. installing linuxcnc now.
06:18 PM Rab: I just found a bizarre white film on all the galvanized electrical conduit and boxes in my shipping container. It's soft enough to scratch off with a fingernail, almost pasty. I don't know if it's a biofilm that likes zinc, or what. Nothing else in the container is affected, so far.
06:22 PM dioz: you sure it's galv iron?
06:23 PM devlap: What about setting up the software part of linuxcnc, I just installed the live cd to my hard disk.
06:23 PM MarcelineVQ: I've gotten powder like that from running dc through alu
06:24 PM dioz: aluminium oxidation is milky
06:24 PM dioz: idk about scratching it off with your finger though
06:24 PM gloops: devlap run stepconfig
06:24 PM gloops: youll find linuxcnc basic setup easier than mach3
06:25 PM dioz: only other white film i can think of would be over-spray from an airless sprayer
06:25 PM dioz: but you'd see that on EVERYTHING
06:26 PM dioz: i know that galv iron, if it sits for an extended period of time, will get oxidized in such a manner that the iron looks less shiney and more flat and turns darker in color
06:26 PM dioz: turns lighter in color i mean
06:26 PM gloops: hmm, you have got 4 motors though, rotary axis? or 2 motors on 1 linear
06:26 PM Rab: x
06:27 PM devlap: 4 axis rotary
06:28 PM gloops: thats ok then
06:28 PM Rab: dioz, it's all galvanized steel. I've seen electrical fittings corrode a number of ways: white corrosion of the galvanization, brown corrosion of the steel underneath. But that's a hard deposit, not a gummy film. The metal is shiny underneath.
06:30 PM MarcelineVQ: any chance it's uncured powdercoat?
06:31 PM Rab: The whole container was sprayed with a ton of oil-based Rustoleum before fitting electrical, and it's still off-gassing. I only noticed the film once winter ended. So maybe it's volatiles evaporating and re-depositing paint solids somehow?? I don't see the film on anything else.
06:31 PM Rab: Including the black shelving that also went in after painting.
06:32 PM Rab: It's really pretty disturbing. I have my hoard of linear rails, screws, various CNC project materials in there...I wouldn't want some mystery crud growing on them. ^_^
06:32 PM devlap: what does spindle step pin map to in linuxcnc terminology. How about the spindle relay, and motor enable?
06:32 PM devlap: https://warp9td.com/images/BOB_Vendors/StepperOnline/ST-V2.pdf
06:32 PM devlap: This is how to set it up in mach3
06:46 PM devlap: ium not sure what the items labeled motor enable, and spindle relay are
06:53 PM devlap: hmm weird. my VFD changes when I give an x axis shif.
06:57 PM MarcelineVQ: enable connects to the enable pin on your stepper driver, if you don't have or want to use that feature you can omit connecting it. if your spindle is doing things when you move an exis be careful it's not hooked up to B axis pins then, since they're shared with the spindle control.
06:58 PM devlap: I was just in stepper config trying to move X
06:58 PM MarcelineVQ: specifically pin17 controls the spindle relay
06:58 PM devlap: and I noticed the VFD start displaying.
06:58 PM devlap: 17 I have set to "Spindle ON"
06:58 PM devlap: Pjn 1 I have set to Spindle PWM
06:59 PM devlap: If I try to jog any of the axis, I see numbers on my vfd.
07:02 PM MarcelineVQ: I've not set up a spindle yet but that's pretty suspicious
07:02 PM devlap: yea I must have it set up wrong. Im sure of pins 2-9
07:02 PM devlap: its 1, 14, 16 and 17 im not sure are right.
07:02 PM devlap: Mach3 spindle relay was 17, so I set that to spindle on
07:03 PM devlap: 14 was motor enable, not sure the equivalent in linuxcnc
07:03 PM devlap: pin 1 was step control for spindle, so I set that to spindle PWM
07:03 PM devlap: gtg ill play with it tmw.
07:04 PM devlap: Thanks for the help all.
09:23 PM MarcelineVQ: stumbled upon a really good little 2 part video about semi-conductors, and a playlist of a lot more good stuff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kejD09YPAEU&index=79&list=PLGhvWnPsCr59UABN4iEhmGlRaNd1wqOof
09:23 PM MarcelineVQ: nothing too special to the vocal majority of the channel I would bet but I found it really cool and clear
09:25 PM CaptHindsight: MarcelineVQ: DIY or commercial fabs?
09:25 PM MarcelineVQ: just a theory explanation
09:26 PM CaptHindsight: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1G724IIl-jyRxjfjblXwZBqDUzDmx64XqIJwk0G0B6vE/edit#slide=id.p
09:26 PM CaptHindsight: Home Chip Fab ^^^
09:27 PM MarcelineVQ: hey now I​ heard you can get in trouble for doping at home
09:28 PM CaptHindsight: page #34 ^^
09:28 PM MarcelineVQ: pretty neat CaptHindsight I'll have a look, though I suspect that etching or routing pcb is the farthest I'd end up going in that direction. TI parts aren't too expensive
09:32 PM MarcelineVQ: I like these materials comparisons in the slide, and this mysterious note about the band gap "(Also why glass is transparents)" Do you know if there's a video presentation that goes with these slides?
09:36 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7E8-0Ou69hwScPW1_fQApA
09:36 PM CaptHindsight: Sam Zeloof channel
09:36 PM MarcelineVQ: thank you :>
10:13 PM MarcelineVQ: bought a 12v psu to run my switches a little while back and am just now finding out about tiny little dc regulators like the LM7805 which I could have just ran off my motor psu and saved cost/space/time
10:14 PM MarcelineVQ: they look like fun little circuits to put together too
10:15 PM CaptHindsight: they make tiny switcher IC's as well
10:20 PM MarcelineVQ: they're pretty fancy sounding from the docs, you're referring to this sort of thing? http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm2679.pdf
10:28 PM MarcelineVQ: so cheap too, complete circuit for less than 10% of the shipping cost :>
10:35 PM Tom_L: switchers are better
10:38 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2A-DC-DC-Buck-Step-down-Adjustable-Converter-Module-5-24V-to-1-8V-3-3V-5V-9V-12V/132109827948?hash=item1ec25bff6c:g:ODQAAOSwB-1YtB3B
10:40 PM Tom_L: 7805 needs to disapate the heat from the supply voltage to 5v so if the supply v is high it will run much hotter
10:41 PM Tom_L: since it's a linear supply
10:43 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-DC-4-2-40v-to-3V-3-3V-5V-9V-12V-24V-Module-Buck-Step-Down-Converter-Regulator/202114496608?epid=512990813&hash=item2f0ef67860:g:AdkAAOSwZaNaCq8x
10:45 PM Tom_L: i made a few based on the LM2596 at one point
10:46 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/switcher.png
10:46 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/5v_switcher.jpg
10:51 PM Tom_L: afterward i figured china can make em for me cheaper than the part cost from digikey
10:52 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-Mini-LM2596s-3A-DC-to-DC-Buck-Converter-Power-Supply-Step-Down-Module/202271618249?epid=12017051458&hash=item2f1853f4c9:g:FX8AAOSwpNxatJwS
10:52 PM Tom_L: literally a buck a piece now
10:54 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-PCS-LM2596-DC-DC-buck-adjustable-step-down-Power-Supply-Converter-module-NA/192512396614?epid=2142799675&hash=item2cd2a20d46:g:kL0AAOSwVFBasjP3
10:54 PM Tom_L: even less
10:56 PM xunil: I just swapped one of those into a Commodore 64 power supply, works great.
10:57 PM Tom_L: i've got them in my mill supply for some 5 and 10v stuff
10:57 PM Tom_L: blown a couple but it was my fault
11:00 PM CaptHindsight: yeah aren't made too bad
11:00 PM CaptHindsight: you can add some extra protection if you wish
11:05 PM nallar is now known as Ross
11:09 PM seb_kuzm1nsky is now known as seb_kuzminsky
11:46 PM MarcelineVQ: Tom_L, CaptHindsight: Thanks for your input guys, wish I had known about these sooner, they're so gosh darn tiny
11:47 PM CaptHindsight: no problem why we are here
11:47 PM MarcelineVQ: not that my 12v psu is big or anything, but it's not neccesary to be using the space to convert ac twice
11:47 PM CaptHindsight: contrary to popular opinion