#linuxcnc Logs
Apr 22 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: good morning all
01:06 AM IchGucksLive: im pimping a tb6560
01:06 AM IchGucksLive: to run a vfd
01:13 AM IchGucksLive: im off 2 garden
01:15 AM Loetmichel: hmpf. This notebook here has a problem... its either the radiator full of dust or the heatpipe defect. cpu says 70°C at idle, fan is at full trhottle and its already switched off on me unexpectedly twice on my lap. have to be extremely careful not to cover even ONE bottom air intake slot :-( ... not to mentoin all that paint specles on it from renovating my Mothers in laws appartment :-)
01:27 AM gloops: well, im going to try taking a 12v supply from PC instead of VFD, if that doesnt work ill try one or two more things but then thats it, im scrapping the metal box idea and going back to the tried and tested method of mounting everything well apart on the wall, i cannot spend any more days on this
01:28 AM gloops: metal box is great if you get it right, if you dont it only worsens noise problems
02:06 AM Deejay: moin
02:35 AM MarcelineVQ: gloops: got a little 12v from china for little, it was way way smaller than I was expecting hehe, 8x4x3.5 cm for the box I'm making a wooden one, mostly for lack of better local material options
02:35 AM MarcelineVQ: *8x6x3.5
02:36 AM MarcelineVQ: it came within a week, I was floored
02:37 AM MarcelineVQ: ali's been offering much better shipping options to here lately, so things take more on the order of 2 weeks than 2 months
02:49 AM gloops: wow 8x4 inch MarcelineVQ?
02:50 AM MarcelineVQ: cm :>
02:51 AM gloops: oh the psu is 8x4 cm, i thought you meant the box lol
02:52 AM gloops: thats what i need something like that, im just going to plug an old pc in on the floor and run a 12v from it for testing purposes
02:52 AM MarcelineVQ: ah no, the box is something like 15x21x17 inch iirc, I've not made renders of it or I'd just pull one up
02:52 AM MarcelineVQ: I wanted one small footprint, but tall enough to stick a monitor and keyboard on top of when needed
02:54 AM gloops: well, im all ready to go apart from one noise/interference problem, ive faffed about with it for 2 months its got to be sorted now time is up lol
02:55 AM MarcelineVQ: What's the noise affecting?
02:55 AM gloops: when spindle turns, Y axis goes crazy
02:55 AM MarcelineVQ: ah, spooky action at a distance is not fun
02:56 AM gloops: id rather something was not working, an easy fix
02:56 AM MarcelineVQ: I was hoping it was something fun to solve, like a limit was tripping
02:56 AM gloops: this is annoying
02:58 AM MarcelineVQ: resorted to wrapping wire sin aluminum foil yet? :>
02:59 AM gloops: thats the really annoying bit, i stopped dead to do a total rewire with shielded cable, followed instructions - it was ok before with wire stripped from flex lol, now its unuseable
03:00 AM MarcelineVQ: which wire?
03:01 AM Loetmichel: get some copper braid "tube". wirks MUCH better than aluminium foil
03:01 AM gloops: i cant remember its proper name, its got steel braid round it, its abouts half inch thick
03:01 AM Loetmichel: all of them
03:01 AM MarcelineVQ: no sorry I mean what components wire stripped
03:01 AM MarcelineVQ: Loetmichel: foil was just a little joke there, though any port in a storm I guess
03:02 AM gloops: oh, initially i just got bits of old flex cable from extensions and old white goods, stripped it and used that - the machine worked fine!
03:02 AM gloops: then i spent £60 on proper cable, now it doesnt work
03:02 AM MarcelineVQ: oh I see
03:03 AM Loetmichel: MarcelineVQ: i had to put that on my spindle cable from the VFD to prevent the steppers from moving erratically at spinup/spindown
03:03 AM gloops: ive ruled out the drivers, had 4 new in total
03:03 AM MarcelineVQ: Grounding issue maybe? Your shielding is acting as a carrier instead? dunno about this stuff really
03:03 AM gloops: it isnt the psus, same problem with any psu
03:04 AM gloops: yes probably MarcelineVQ
03:04 AM Loetmichel: before: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12512
03:04 AM gloops: the last big suspect that would be an easy fix - im using 12v supply from vfd, im doing away with that now
03:04 AM Loetmichel: after: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12560
03:04 AM gloops: may the vfd 12v supply is also the noise supply
03:04 AM MarcelineVQ: what does your 12v run?
03:05 AM gloops: it goes to the bob to power the 0-10v and limit switches
03:05 AM MarcelineVQ: Loetmichel: those are called chokes right? what do they do?
03:05 AM gloops: the signals from the bob go crazy when the spindle is powered
03:05 AM Loetmichel: MarcelineVQ: "clip on chokes"
03:05 AM Loetmichel: yes
03:06 AM gloops: what do those do Loetmichel?
03:06 AM Loetmichel: they convert HF signals to heat
03:06 AM Loetmichel: dampening any ELI in the process
03:06 AM gloops: so anything running down the shielding gets dispersed?
03:06 AM MarcelineVQ: sounds like an ideal item when it comes to vfd
03:06 AM Loetmichel: gloops: indeed
03:06 AM Loetmichel: not anything but a good part ofm it
03:07 AM gloops: whats the proper name for me to search?
03:07 AM Loetmichel: S/ELI/EMI
03:07 AM Loetmichel: no idea. in german its "ferrit-klappkerne"
03:07 AM MarcelineVQ: gloops: ferrite bead
03:08 AM MarcelineVQ: or ferrite choke
03:08 AM gloops: right save that bit of info ill look for those
03:09 AM Loetmichel: we use them in droves at the company
03:09 AM gloops: tbh i dont think my problem is something borderline, its too severe, a completely missing ground or something
03:09 AM Loetmichel: because we make EMI-"free" PCs ;)
03:09 AM gloops: i have seen them on things yeah
03:10 AM MarcelineVQ: linuxcnc has an oscilloscope in it doesn't it? halscope wonder if you can use that to help track things down, at least for the bob. not tried any of those tools here
03:10 AM Loetmichel: the good part is that if you have a bunch of them: they clip on. you can easily test wherer the best place for them is
03:10 AM gloops: whats the earth wire running from spindle to vfd?
03:11 AM gloops: MarcelineVQ i looked at it once it seemed a bit over my head, i could try again
03:11 AM Loetmichel: gloops: on my spindle?
03:11 AM gloops: look for something with crazy activity
03:11 AM MarcelineVQ: depends on your spindle/vfd?
03:11 AM Loetmichel: its because i have a pretty "lofty" setup
03:11 AM gloops: yes Loetmichel
03:12 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569
03:12 AM Loetmichel: to provde a solid ground on both ends of the shield braid
03:12 AM Loetmichel: not that much metal here :-)
03:12 AM Loetmichel: the drivers are even worht
03:12 AM Loetmichel: worse
03:13 AM gloops: see that setup makes more sense to me
03:13 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12808
03:13 AM Loetmichel: ... thats the beck iof the mill ;)
03:13 AM gloops: cramming everything into a metal box is asking for trouble
03:13 AM gloops: ok if you know exactly what youre doing
03:13 AM MarcelineVQ: gloops: just for my own curiosity, are you asking why there's a ground to the spindle, or just why it's long?
03:14 AM Loetmichel: i am an electronican that works for a IT shielding company... i think i know what i am doing :-)
03:14 AM gloops: well my trouble is coming from vfd/spindle, im not certain ive got everything there grounded properly, i have no earth from vfd to spindle
03:14 AM gloops: the spindle shielding is grounded at one end thats all
03:15 AM Loetmichel: usually you have to ground it at both ends to get it to work properly
03:15 AM gloops: thts where it gets confusing for a novice
03:15 AM MarcelineVQ: odd, most instructions I've read say to ground only one end, maybe to avoid ground loops, no idea
03:15 AM gloops: most tutorials say shielding ground ONE END ONLY
03:16 AM gloops: then another says ground both ends
03:16 AM Loetmichel: MarcelineVQ: a one sided grounded shield will only work for capacitive EMI
03:16 AM gloops: the pros do ground spindle shielding both ends
03:16 AM Loetmichel: inductive needs both ends to be grounded properly so that a current can flow
03:16 AM Loetmichel: the reaosn most say to only ground one end is because it avoids ground loops
03:17 AM gloops: but ive tried both - no change
03:17 AM Loetmichel: its a tradeoof
03:17 AM Loetmichel: tradeoff
03:18 AM Loetmichel: gloops: thats why we have spectrum analyzers at the company and "sniffer antennae" to search for the exact spot where the signal emerges
03:18 AM Loetmichel: its a bit "voodoo"
03:18 AM gloops: i think i got lucky when i first wired this up, now the gremlins have appeared im a bit lost
03:19 AM Loetmichel: do you have an MW radio with a ferrite anenna?
03:20 AM Loetmichel: you can use that to tune to a "no station" settung and then search for sounds while the VFD is running, pointing it at different parts of the machine
03:20 AM Loetmichel: just to get an idea where the most EMI is coming from
03:20 AM gloops: its funny you say that
03:21 AM gloops: listening to the stepper motors i can hear the interference
03:21 AM MarcelineVQ: :X
03:21 AM gloops: just like when you get a radio trying to tune it in
03:21 AM gloops: i havent got an old radio though
03:21 AM MarcelineVQ: have you tried playing with the carrier setting on the vfd?
03:21 AM MarcelineVQ: carrier frequency
03:22 AM gloops: no, i havent dared up to now lol
03:22 AM gloops: i might try that as last resport
03:22 AM Loetmichel: personally i would go the "rigind ground" route.
03:23 AM gloops: someone blew the vfd up making random changes to parameters, been a bit wary when i saw that
03:23 AM gloops: whats that Loetmichel?
03:23 AM Loetmichel: connect all parts of the CNC, especially the spindle/zaxis with at least 6mm^2 ground wire to a central point
03:23 AM Loetmichel: AND shield the motor/spindkle wires with copper braid connected at both ends
03:24 AM gloops: just about everything is grounded through the box, and got steel mesh shielding, but ill go over it again
03:25 AM Loetmichel: btw: do you have shield on the step/dir wires from the breakout box to the drivers
03:25 AM Loetmichel: ?
03:26 AM gloops: yeah, i had to use copper foil for that, and theyre twisted
03:26 AM Loetmichel: thats the most likely point where the EMI from the spindle/steppers cause havoc
03:27 AM Loetmichel: also: do you have the - of the stepper/logic supply grounded?
03:27 AM gloops: i twisted them, wrapped them in copper foil, insulated them, and grounded the foil
03:27 AM gloops: fom the drivers the ground goes to PCGnd on the BOB
03:28 AM gloops: i cant ground the bob theres nothing to ground, im assuming the usb supply does that
03:28 AM Loetmichel: try to put a big wire from the case ground (protection earth) to the - of the stepper supply
03:28 AM Loetmichel: and to the PCGND on the BOB
03:29 AM Loetmichel: does the BOB have opto cpuplers for the PC side`?
03:29 AM gloops: unknown
03:29 AM gloops: its just a cheap chinese bob
03:29 AM MarcelineVQ: yes
03:30 AM gloops: anyway, first ill try getting rid of 12v supply from vfd, bbl
03:30 AM MarcelineVQ: I'm assuming you have http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21742&d=1495398422 since it's pretty common, it has seperated 5v and 12-24v inputs
03:30 AM gloops: yes thats the BOB
03:31 AM gloops: the way its acting it is as if the 12v and 5v are getting mixed
03:31 AM MarcelineVQ: usb power is broken out on the bottom right
03:31 AM MarcelineVQ: switches on the left run off the 12-24v on the right
03:31 AM gloops: now the 12v coming from the spindle is likely to have a lot of aggressive emi i suspect
03:31 AM MarcelineVQ: I observed a 3v drop on the switch side on my bob
03:32 AM gloops: the limit switches work flawlessly, the axis work perfect - until the spindle gets power
03:35 AM MarcelineVQ: mind that a 9v battery can run limit swtches just fine, you don't need to find a PSU just for testing
04:42 AM gloops: LOETMICHEL!!!
04:42 AM gloops: YOU DID IT HAHA
04:43 AM gloops: ground from bob pcgnd to box - PROBLEM GONE
04:47 AM gloops: 2 months pissing about over i really hope anyway, i went in garage to strip box out for total rewire - thought ill just try that ground as it makes sense - instant fix
04:47 AM gloops: 3 inch of wire
04:48 AM jthornton: morning
04:49 AM gloops: morning
04:51 AM jthornton: how it's going with the router?
04:51 AM gloops: hopefully im back on the front foot, just sorted nagging noise issue
04:52 AM gloops: so everything is working - well, it has just done for a few minutes anyway
04:52 AM jthornton: what did you find?
04:54 AM gloops: all i did was ground the breakout board to the metal box
04:55 AM gloops: i havent yet realised why that works, but it does
04:56 AM jthornton: interesting
04:56 AM gloops: the board is grounded through the usb power supply, can conclude that that ground is ineffective or insufficient
05:03 AM gloops: possibly iffy USB connection
05:08 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
05:08 AM IchGucksLive: within the last hour i got a isee to speedcontrol spindle the tb6560 let me try this today
05:09 AM IchGucksLive: i got a bunch of dc pwm speders
05:09 AM IchGucksLive: and som old 4011 pwm 2 analog
05:10 AM IchGucksLive: will see how this comes out
05:10 AM IchGucksLive: till later
05:27 AM fragalot: Hi
05:29 AM jthornton: morning
05:29 AM fragalot: finished scraping in the gibs on the RF45.. and now I am confident that those are NOT the source of misalignment of X& Y :<
05:32 AM jthornton: did you convert it to CNC?
05:32 AM fragalot: no
05:32 AM fragalot: and it's too consistently wrong to be wear
05:32 AM fragalot: it is out of square by approximately 0.1mm/100mm of Y travel
05:33 AM fragalot: X is spot on though,.. so if I were to re-scrape the Y, that would cock the saddle over and shift the problem to X >.<
06:01 AM gloops: the jibs on the carriage - that wont square up the travel
06:01 AM gloops: btw noise issue seems to be cured fragalot thanks for your input
06:01 AM fragalot: gloops: at first I only noticed it at the end of travel
06:01 AM fragalot: and the end of travel overhangs the dovetails on the rf45
06:01 AM fragalot: so the gibs being bad made sense
06:01 AM gloops: well you had some scraping practice
06:01 AM fragalot: and it HAs improved
06:01 AM fragalot: just not solved the problem
06:02 AM fragalot: also - congrats :-)
06:02 AM miss0r: so whats the deal with that rf45?
06:02 AM fragalot: it's a monday model
06:02 AM miss0r: Are you going to scrape that in? that is alot of scraping
06:02 AM gloops: was literally minutes away from ripping the box out lol
06:02 AM fragalot: i'm not sure if this machine is worth weeks of my time
06:03 AM fragalot: yet I can't be bothered purchasing a new machine & dealig with the hassle of carrying it in :P
06:03 AM miss0r: hehe
06:03 AM miss0r: Can't you find a machine shop that can mill it square for you? then scrape the rest
06:04 AM fragalot: maybe, but at what point do I spend more time & money than the machine is worth?
06:05 AM fragalot: I mean, even if the saddle becomes perfectly square, there is still a lot of play in the quill
06:05 AM miss0r: okay.. that sucks
06:05 AM fragalot: so i'd have to bore out the quill, press in sleeves, and turn a new quill
06:05 AM miss0r: I was going to say: you know what you've got. So if the rest was top notch, it could be worth it
06:06 AM fragalot: so I believe that I will leave it is is now, finish the cnc build, and then either keep it as a pillar drill, or just get rid of it & get the "premium" one from a local dealer that gets them hand-scraped prior to sale
06:07 AM miss0r: sounds pricy
06:07 AM fragalot: it is :P
06:07 AM fragalot: but the end result is a thing of beauty.
06:07 AM miss0r: indeed
06:08 AM miss0r: Speaking of beauty; my laser bracket is almost done: https://imgur.com/a/IrVerDz
06:08 AM fragalot: http://crispyn.be/boorfreesmachine-mcp-45.html <=
06:08 AM miss0r: nice
06:08 AM fragalot: how do you adjust the alignment?
06:08 AM jthornton: nice miss0r
06:08 AM miss0r: But won't that CNC of yours be able to do most of the milling ?
06:09 AM fragalot: Yup
06:09 AM fragalot: hence completing that
06:09 AM fragalot: and then MAYBE replace the rf45.
06:09 AM miss0r: fragalot: The laser pivots on two steel balls in there. then it will just be a matter of ajusting the screws two on the end, two facing down
06:10 AM fragalot: interesting
06:10 AM jthornton: damn raining again
06:10 AM miss0r: Not interresting... The idea came from a coffee deprived mind late last night...
06:10 AM miss0r: Today I would've done things differently :D
06:10 AM fragalot: haha
06:12 AM gloops: in all the kerfuffery i snapped a soldered wire off the spindle, so just that to sort then a couple of test cuts, then its probably away for another week
06:12 AM miss0r: also; that small PCB there is just wonderfull.. I bought ten of them. Its a 0.86$ switchmode psu. 7-36 volts input, 0-32 volts output @ 1.85A
06:12 AM gloops: the day when i do not have to say 'just that to sort' is close
06:12 AM fragalot: miss0r: yeah I buy those in packs of 50 too xD
06:13 AM miss0r: A most wonderfull invention :D
06:13 AM fragalot: the ones I have have a 0-36V input though
06:13 AM miss0r: I cant decide weather to make some small cover for the recess or if I should fill it with epoxy
06:13 AM fragalot: buck-boost, so it can regulate either up or down
06:13 AM miss0r: These are just buck
06:14 AM miss0r: but 1.85 amps in that small package is just insane :D
06:14 AM fragalot: well.. that's what the label says
06:14 AM fragalot: they do get hot as it's not the most efficient design ever
06:14 AM miss0r: Which is why I always use some thermal glue when installing them in an aluminium housing.. even when I only draw 5mw :D
06:15 AM fragalot: :)
06:15 AM miss0r: to make sure the laser point moves ever so slightly, when it starts to heat up :D good things this is not a super high accuracy application
06:15 AM fragalot: lol
06:16 AM miss0r: The only thing troubeling me with using epoxy - theres no repairing it after that... But I don't think I have any sheet alu to maker a cover with
06:17 AM fragalot: mill out a block with an o-ring groove :P
06:18 AM miss0r: :D
06:18 AM miss0r: or maybe some HDPE...
06:19 AM miss0r: Its facing into the machine anyway, so you can't see the electronics either way
06:20 AM fragalot: you could use a silicon potting material rather tan epoxy
06:20 AM fragalot: at least you can pick it out if need be
06:20 AM miss0r: yeah... I'll make a hdpe with a pressfit & add some hotsnot to the wires in there
06:21 AM fragalot: a pressfit, to amplify any thermal differences? :D
06:21 AM miss0r: no no... I will calculate it to cancel out the thermal expansion.... :P
06:37 AM miss0r: Alright.. conneting stuff up is done, Now I just need to glue it in place with some all time favourite hotsnot
07:00 AM phipli: hum
07:01 AM jthornton: morning
07:01 AM phipli: hey jt
07:01 AM phipli: mind testing something for me?
07:01 AM jthornton: sure
07:12 AM gloops: well thats working ok now, only a bit of damp mdf and a cheap v bit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uFOhLfRbrA&feature=youtu.be
07:12 AM gloops: https://ibb.co/cTSJDc
08:51 AM Loetmichel: gloops: glad you found it
09:19 AM emc is now known as JT-Shop-2
09:35 AM phipli: folks - theCockerel is a bot
09:35 AM phipli: some handy things > theCockerel, tell phipli beer is great
09:36 AM phipli: will tell me that beer is great the next time I speak
09:36 AM phipli: the command ".seen phipli" says when I last spoke
09:37 AM phipli: and "/lastlog beer" checks the log for when people have mentioned beer
09:38 AM phipli: open a chat with theCockerel and type .help for a list of commands (some are disabled)
09:39 AM phipli: say ".help cmdName" for more info on a specific command
09:47 AM pink_vampire: why we need a bot?
09:48 AM phipli: why not / because I missed some of the features when nobody knew where archivist was
09:48 AM phipli: I've turned off the extrovert features I found
09:48 AM phipli: it should only react when you address it
09:48 AM phipli: so ignore it if needed
09:49 AM phipli: *you want
09:52 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
09:52 AM IchGucksLive: gloops it works SMILES
09:52 AM IchGucksLive: https://youtu.be/PXYliAOGsMM
09:54 AM phipli: I used one of those motor boards to control some pumps at work
09:59 AM IchGucksLive: phipli, i got 100 a year
09:59 AM IchGucksLive: phipli, is the sound ok
09:59 AM phipli: :)
09:59 AM phipli: worked quite well
09:59 AM phipli: impressed how cool it stayed driving quite a big 24v pump
09:59 AM IchGucksLive: need to get in german also
10:00 AM IchGucksLive: till later
10:00 AM * phipli waves
10:01 AM * hazzy-dev is playing with theCockerel
10:01 AM hazzy-dev: phipli: Why did you disable the python evaluator? That would be fun! :)
10:02 AM phipli: I can't think
10:02 AM phipli: :p
10:02 AM hazzy-dev: .py len([1,2,3])
10:02 AM theCockerel: hazzy-dev: Sorry, this feature is disabled
10:02 AM hazzy-dev: haha
10:02 AM phipli: that was the first thing I went and broke :p
10:02 AM phipli: then I got rid of the stupid thing that repeats back every URL you mention
10:02 AM hazzy-dev: That was the first thing I went and tried :P
10:03 AM phipli: it makes spamming easy
10:03 AM phipli: but beyond that, I'm not good enough at python to work out what damage could be done
10:03 AM phipli: so decided "none" was the best option :)
10:05 AM hazzy-dev: yeah, I don't see that it has any value other then amusement, and I guess it could be used to spam
10:06 AM phipli: yeah .py print "Spam "*1000
10:08 AM fragalot: Hi.
10:08 AM phipli: afternoon fragalot
10:14 AM Tom_L: in 1min tell phipli his bot works
10:14 AM Tom_L: .in 1min tell phipli his bot works
10:14 AM Tom_L: particular bugger
10:14 AM Tom_L: .in 1m tell phipli his bot works
10:15 AM Tom_L: .in 2m read war and peace to us
10:15 AM theCockerel: Tom_L: Okay, will remind at 2018-04-22 - 15:16:21
10:15 AM fragalot: .in 0s tell Tom_L it doesn't.
10:15 AM theCockerel: fragalot: Sorry, didn't understand the input.
10:15 AM fragalot: .in 0m tell Tom_L it doesn't.
10:15 AM theCockerel: fragalot: Sorry, didn't understand the input.
10:16 AM Tom_L: does so
10:16 AM fragalot: then why does it not understand the input :P
10:16 AM Tom_L: it's a bot
10:16 AM fragalot: .in -1m tell Tom_L it doesn't.
10:16 AM theCockerel: fragalot: Okay, will remind at 2018-04-22 - 15:16:06
10:17 AM hazzy-dev: .xkcd
10:17 AM theCockerel: http://xkcd.com/1002 | Game AIs | Alt-text: The top computer champion at Seven Minutes in Heaven is a Honda-built Realdoll, but to date it has been unable to outperform the human Seven Minutes in Heaven champion, Ken Jennings.
10:17 AM hazzy-dev: :D
10:17 AM theCockerel: fragalot: tell Tom_L it doesn't.
10:17 AM theCockerel: Tom_L: read war and peace to us
10:17 AM Tom_L: no
10:18 AM fragalot: .in 18446744073709551616m tell Tom_L derp.
10:18 AM theCockerel: ValueError: timestamp out of range for platform time_t (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/sopel/modules/remind.py", line 223, in create_reminder)
10:19 AM Tom_L: you broke it
10:20 AM fragalot: Indeed.
10:20 AM fragalot: but it's a good kind of breaking it
10:20 AM Tom_L: .weather london
10:20 AM theCockerel: Yahoo! Weather - London, England, GB: Mostly Cloudy, 24°C (75°F), Humidity: 41%, Moderate breeze 6.3m/s (↗)
10:21 AM Tom_L: .weather kansas city
10:21 AM theCockerel: Yahoo! Weather - Kansas City, MO, US: Showers, 10°C (50°F), Humidity: 58%, Fresh breeze 8.0m/s (↙)
10:21 AM fragalot: .ipython while True:
10:21 AM Tom_L: .weather swampeast missouri
10:21 AM theCockerel: Yahoo! Weather - Missouri, US: Rain, 10°C (50°F), Humidity: 98%, Moderate breeze 6.3m/s (↙)
10:21 AM hazzy-dev: .length 10in
10:21 AM theCockerel: hazzy-dev: 25.40cm = 10.00 inches
10:22 AM Tom_L: .length 10fathoms
10:22 AM theCockerel: Tom_L: That's not a valid length unit.
10:22 AM hazzy-dev: Its a metric bot
10:22 AM Tom_L: it is too
10:22 AM hazzy-dev: lol
10:22 AM fragalot: .pronouns apache attack helicopter
10:23 AM theCockerel: I don't know apache's pronouns. They can set them with .setpronouns
10:23 AM Tom_L: .setpronouns apache attack helicopter quadcopter
10:23 AM theCockerel: I'm sorry, I don't know those pronouns. You can give me a set I don't know by formatting it subject/object/possessive-determiner/posessive-pronoun/reflexive, as in they/them/their/theirs/themselves
10:24 AM Tom_L: how it will help lcnc is beyond me
10:24 AM fragalot: lol
10:25 AM hazzy-dev: Its needs a gcode quick reference
10:25 AM Tom_L: no
10:25 AM hazzy-dev: .gcode G1
10:25 AM Tom_L: we don't need the channel flooded
10:26 AM Tom_L: we manage that well enough already
10:26 AM hazzy-dev: LOL, true
10:27 AM Tom_L: now i will get my bot to talk to your bot and lets see what happens then :D
10:27 AM Tom_L: ... all sorts of problems can arrise from bots
10:28 AM hazzy-dev: At least the bots would not be able to get more off topic
10:28 AM hazzy-dev: :P
10:29 AM fragalot: you'd be surprised
10:29 AM fragalot: spam with .xkcd :D
10:30 AM hazzy-dev: .uptime
10:30 AM theCockerel: I've been sitting here for 1:10:29 and I keep going!
10:30 AM phipli: heh
10:31 AM phipli: poor bird. surprised it is still running
10:34 AM phipli: theCockerel, tell fragalot stop being mean to the bot
10:34 AM theCockerel: phipli: I'll pass that on when fragalot is around.
10:35 AM fragalot: don't put me on a stage like that >.<
10:43 AM phipli: beer
10:43 AM phipli: hum
10:44 AM phipli: who's client is it that makes a comment about not being your maid?
10:50 AM Tom_L: it's not online atm
10:51 AM phipli: is it archivists?
10:51 AM Tom_L: yes
11:43 AM pink_vampire: any life?
11:43 AM fragalot: no
11:49 AM Tom_L: just a bunch of bots
11:51 AM dioz: bunch of row-bawtz
11:52 AM phipli: Tom_L, https://github.com/NicoHood/IRC
11:52 AM phipli: you could broadcast the temperature with that
11:52 AM phipli: (although it says in progress)
11:53 AM Tom_L: i've looked at other bots but didn't like the logging they did
11:53 AM phipli: in what way?
11:53 AM Tom_L: logging seems to be a most used feature in the channels i'm in
11:53 AM Tom_L: i don't remember now it's been a few years
11:54 AM fragalot: the only thing I miss from your logs is a search feature
11:54 AM Tom_L: reprap has a definition feature that i think would be useful
11:54 AM fragalot: maybe$
11:54 AM Tom_L: when you say: stepper, it describes it
11:54 AM fragalot: I think bots that talk in public are a nuisance
11:54 AM Tom_L: you could enter the mesa boards for example
11:55 AM Tom_L: fragalot, i mostly agree with that
11:55 AM phipli: there are loggers for the one I'm using but I didn't install one
11:55 AM Tom_L: unless it's useful information that is repetetive
11:56 AM Tom_L: if the noob didn't know what to ask, an experienced user could just type in the subject instead of having to retype the information time after time
11:56 AM phipli: the bot is only running on a tiny linux single board computer so I didn't want to have to be watching, or be alerted about remaining space in two years time
11:56 AM Tom_L: those are the types of features that i think would be beneficial
11:57 AM fragalot: Tom_L: i'd suggest the bot should PM the newb then, but from this channel i've learned that reading PM's is too difficult for a lot of users :/
11:57 AM phipli: I knew a bot used for that
11:57 AM Tom_L: i don't know python or plan to learn it though
11:57 AM Tom_L: most of them that do information can go either way
11:58 AM phipli: can you do it client side?
11:58 AM Tom_L: i'm not sure
11:58 AM phipli: what client do you use?
11:58 AM Tom_L: it was one that PSHA used
11:58 AM Tom_L: no idea
11:58 AM Tom_L: supybot was one i looked at
11:59 AM Tom_L: there are all sorts of plugins for it
12:00 PM phipli: HexChat lets you do perl and python plugins - not sure how exactly
12:01 PM phipli: right
12:01 PM phipli: if you use the command /py load <filename.py> it will run a python script
12:01 PM phipli: sorry, load one.
12:02 PM phipli: so you could make one that had your standard responses in it
12:02 PM phipli: load it in, then just use something like /py exec steppermotors
12:02 PM phipli: or whatever?
12:03 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure
12:04 PM Tom_L: join reprap and see what it does
12:04 PM Tom_L: and while you're there, please piss them off for me
12:04 PM phipli: heh. what did they do?
12:05 PM IchGucksLive: hi
12:05 PM phipli: afternoon ich
12:05 PM fragalot: hey
12:05 PM Tom_L: just general jerks there
12:06 PM Tom_L: they got mad at me when i was logging the channel
12:06 PM Tom_L: they said they didn't want their boss to find out what they were saying
12:06 PM Tom_L: i basically told them to suck it and left
12:11 PM phipli: so... they talk in a public place and don't want their boss to know what they're saying?
12:11 PM Tom_L: exactly.
12:12 PM phipli: although I actually do find it a bit odd when people (including here) put logs online
12:12 PM Tom_L: i didn't force the issue since they were being aholes anyway
12:12 PM phipli: as in, straight in google searchable places
12:12 PM Tom_L: i add a nosearch to mine
12:14 PM Deejay: re
12:20 PM pink_vampire: i need an idea - how to probe / indicate some round stock with my HF spindle, it is ER11, and i have only the 1/8" collet
12:21 PM IchGucksLive: Deejay, in the thunderalley ?
12:21 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: you mean other than an edge finder?
12:22 PM pink_vampire: edge finder in 3.175mm collet????
12:22 PM fragalot: diy electronic one?
12:22 PM IchGucksLive: Deejay, https://youtu.be/TEqGtW7tij4
12:23 PM IchGucksLive: pink_vampire, did you take a look at my channel
12:23 PM IchGucksLive: pink_vampire, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M2yqr3lKfo
12:23 PM IchGucksLive: this is what you need
12:24 PM pink_vampire: lets see
12:24 PM IchGucksLive: 2 krokodile clamps :O
12:24 PM pink_vampire: i know about that
12:25 PM pink_vampire: there is other way?
12:25 PM IchGucksLive: so without a toolchanger what do you want more
12:26 PM IchGucksLive: pink_vampire, is your HF to work with this
12:26 PM pink_vampire: i don't like the collision method
12:26 PM IchGucksLive: pink_vampire, if your spindle doest have a e-Shorter you are out
12:26 PM IchGucksLive: pink_vampire, use e precicen optics at 0,1mm
12:27 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: piece of paper between the stock & a hss blank
12:27 PM fragalot: use it as a feeler gauge to see when you get close to the part
12:27 PM fragalot: the thickness of the paper is the distance left to the part
12:27 PM IchGucksLive: fragalot, and keep your fingers safe
12:28 PM fragalot: Of course
12:28 PM IchGucksLive: fragalot, best to go at M4
12:28 PM IchGucksLive: at M3 you might get turned in
12:28 PM IchGucksLive: and ae is a factor 2
12:29 PM IchGucksLive: age
12:29 PM fragalot: the paper method is used without the spindle running...
12:29 PM fragalot: typically
12:29 PM IchGucksLive: paper glasses torning steel ->> Hospital REDHED scull
12:30 PM IchGucksLive: fragalot, pink may got the best runout from us all
12:30 PM codepython7771: IchGucksLive: Did you look at shaperorigin yet?
12:30 PM fragalot: IchGucksLive: spin the spindle by hand then :P
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: codepython7771, the handheld is cool but also age and lefthand critical
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: its only a great Idee
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: nothing to be on market
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: at 3k you can get a 1meter 3 foot real good
12:33 PM IchGucksLive: OK its need is ndiscussed
12:33 PM IchGucksLive: if you will make a sign in a Skyscraper
12:33 PM fragalot: the nice thing about the shaper origin is the size
12:33 PM fragalot: it takes up very little space for the area it can work
12:34 PM IchGucksLive: the AREA is the WORLSD
12:34 PM IchGucksLive: But it needs to be flat and scanable to the mesurments
12:34 PM IchGucksLive: engraving Sandstone might be a problem
12:34 PM IchGucksLive: Grave stone i think is ok
12:35 PM IchGucksLive: im off BYE GN8 for today
12:58 PM * hazzy-dev can see ichs using the shaperorigin to re-purpose worn gravestones into way markers
12:59 PM fragalot: lol
01:05 PM gloops: gravestones, coffins, that were all the cash is
01:45 PM pink_vampire: where i can find a drawing for nice machine handles
01:45 PM Tom_L: grabcad probably
01:45 PM phipli: https://rockymountainstove.com/images/products/detail/ScreenHunter_740Jul.2211.46.jpg
01:45 PM theCockerel: phipli: 2018-04-22 - 18:40:50 <fragalot> tell phipli I said hi.
01:45 PM fragalot: www.dongiverse.com
01:46 PM gloops: finally got it going Tom_L https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uFOhLfRbrA&feature=youtu.be
01:47 PM gloops: https://ibb.co/cTSJDc
01:47 PM Tom_L: what was the issue?
01:48 PM fragalot: grounding issue
01:48 PM theCockerel: fragalot: 2018-04-22 - 18:45:56 <phipli> tell fragalot that theCockerel said hi
01:48 PM fragalot: phipli: oh it's on now!
01:48 PM Tom_L: how annoying
01:49 PM gloops: grounded breakout board to metal case - problem gone
01:49 PM Tom_L: yay
01:50 PM gloops: by that time i didnt have any time left to test it much, but the problem is gone so can progress now hopefully
02:02 PM Tom_L: gloops, does it run solid now?
02:03 PM Tom_L: no chatter etc
02:03 PM gloops: yeah no chatter or anything, the motors stopped singing when idle - i knew before i moved it it was sorted
02:03 PM Tom_L: so how many spare drivers do you have now?
02:04 PM gloops: theres some confusion on the ends of the letters in that pic i posted - thats the code not the machine, i set a bottom limit for the cut, the cutter couldnt get in the details
02:04 PM gloops: ive got a set of tb6600s haha
02:04 PM gloops: but they might come in handy for the next one
02:05 PM Tom_L: what'd you use for the lettering?
02:06 PM gloops: the app was vectric aspire, its only some damp mdf that was laying around
02:06 PM gloops: i need to give it some stick now, deep cutting fast, see if there is any backlash
02:10 PM Tom_L: i'll remember that if i use any of those BOBs. i was looking at them a while back
02:14 PM gloops: looking back, i think it could be when i added the limit switches that that problem started, the limit switches work on a pulse i think
02:14 PM gloops: before that it worked ok without seperate ground
02:16 PM Rab: Limit switch wiring probably acting as an antenna.
02:17 PM gloops: maybe, you could actually hear the interference in the motors, like when tuning an old radio in you get that whining and singing, it was regular pulse
02:26 PM fragalot: gloops: it is far more likely that prior to putting it all in the enclosure you had another ground path somewhere
02:42 PM gloops: fragalot possibly yes
02:44 PM gloops: there is a lot going on with the breakout board with port full of limit switches, 4 motors, spindle relay, pwm etc
02:52 PM gloops: however i think you can take the credit for this fix fragalot, i will remember in future - if it can be grounded, ground it - if it cant, ground it anyway
02:53 PM fragalot: well maybe not that last bit :D
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: grounds and loops https://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/message/36300236/
03:10 PM fragalot: Hi CaptHindsight
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: howdy
03:13 PM gloops: how many novice would look at a wiring setup, and say - right what needs grounding? - i know, the ground on the bob!
03:13 PM gloops: the ground IS the ground, why would anyone ground it
03:14 PM fragalot: the important thing in DC circuits is that all of the components agree on what is ground
03:14 PM fragalot: they need a common reference point
03:15 PM fragalot: otherwise power supply A may have a 12V output, but has a 50V offset, and power supply B outputs that same 12V, but at a 0V offset
03:15 PM fragalot: this means that, from power supply B's point of view, power supply A currently has it's positive output sitting at 62V
03:15 PM fragalot: and not 12V like you expect
03:15 PM fragalot: if you connect their DC negatives to earth, that gives them a common reference point
03:15 PM fragalot: if not to earth, connect them at least to each-other
03:16 PM gloops: i wonder if thats why the tb6600s were simply blacking out, voltage spikes, they were only 40v limit
03:16 PM fragalot: the 40V limit is for the power side
03:16 PM fragalot: the input side is far lower i'd imagine
03:17 PM gloops: well, they didnt like it at all
03:20 PM sliptonic: I have a linear servo joint that's moving the wrong direction. I inverted the encoder scale and output scale and now it homes correctly and moves in the right direction when I jog. But the relationship to the coordinate space in Axis is reversed.
03:20 PM sliptonic: In otherwords, I jog down and it thinks it's going up
03:21 PM gloops: did you change the sign for search velocity?
03:23 PM sliptonic: It homes in the right direction. seeks and then lathes and then rapids back to the right place.
03:23 PM gloops: hmm, sorry dont understand what youre saying is happening now i read again
03:23 PM sliptonic: *latches
03:25 PM sliptonic: The machine physically behaves as I would expect. Jog positive moves up. Jog positive moves down. But watching the simulated joint move in Axis, it moves down when it should move up.
03:27 PM sliptonic: Sorry. Missed a piece of critical info. This is a scara robot. in joint mode jog positive moves up. In world mode jog positive moves down
03:27 PM sliptonic: Now that I see that, I have a better idea where to look
03:29 PM gloops: kinematics?
03:30 PM Deejay: gn8
03:31 PM gloops: hmm but if linear
03:34 PM sliptonic: I don't think it's the kins.. If I stay in joint mode, it's reversed. jog down == machine down == visual up.
03:34 PM sliptonic: When I switch to world, jog down == machine up == visual down.
03:34 PM sliptonic: The joint configuration is wrong
03:48 PM gloops: not had that problem, but mines only 3 axis xyz
04:07 PM hendrik_cnc: hello, nice to meet you all :-)
04:07 PM gloops: evening
04:09 PM pink_vampire: hi hendrik_cnc
04:13 PM hendrik_cnc: pretty new to linuxcnc, but i like it so far. i hope i can put some questions the days in here :-)
04:19 PM MarcelineVQ: it's a good place for questions
04:23 PM hazzy-dev: welcome hendrik_cnc
05:31 PM hendrik_cnc: i am using the mesa 7i76e in combination with jmc servos (180w) and a 2.2kw hf spindle.
05:33 PM dioz: hendrik_cnc:
05:34 PM dioz: do i know you?
05:34 PM hendrik_cnc: i don't know? :-)
05:34 PM dioz: k
05:34 PM hendrik_cnc: my first time here in irc
05:41 PM gloops: everything working ok with that hendrik_cnc?
05:42 PM hendrik_cnc: no at the moment i have problems with the servos, need to look at it tomorrow. but i am just at the first steps configuring linuxcnc
05:42 PM hendrik_cnc: and i think the servo problems are not linuxcnc related
05:46 PM gloops: someone in here should be able to help
05:47 PM gloops: there are usually people in here who can help with almost ANY cnc related problem, theyre just in at different times etc, its dropping on them when theyre here
05:48 PM JT-Shop-2: gloops: hows it going with the router
05:48 PM gloops: got it running JT-Shop, its moving fine now
05:48 PM JT-Shop-2: super
05:49 PM gloops: added ground to breakout board, problem solved
05:49 PM JT-Shop-2: dang and it's usually the simple things that work
05:51 PM gloops: yeah 3 inch of wire - after i bought 3 new drivers heh
05:51 PM JT-Shop-2: the leadshines will be better anyway I'd bet
05:51 PM jdh: you need to build another machine to use the other drivers
05:52 PM jdh: unless they are TB*
05:52 PM gloops: yeah its probably a good thing i put the leadshines on anyway, would have ended up changing the cheapo drivers down the road anyway
05:53 PM gloops: jdh ive got enough spare parts now to start making another lol
05:53 PM gloops: anyway seriously bedtime for me have a nice day
05:53 PM JT-Shop-2: yea it's almost tomorrow for you
05:54 PM hendrik_cnc: Maybe this simple question: my reference sensors are located at the travel ends, should i setup them in linuxcnc als homexyz or max xyz?
05:55 PM hendrik_cnc: so x = 500, y = 1000, z = 180 and not 0/0/0
06:04 PM JT-Shop-2: normally a CNC machine homes Z first to the highest position then homes X and/or Y to one end... matters not one wit which end
06:05 PM hendrik_cnc: yes of course, but the machine needs to know where the home switches are located, so to which point it should move
06:06 PM JT-Shop-2: normally you just move off the switch a tad and call that 0
06:06 PM hendrik_cnc: or do i achieve this by setting the home-location of x to 500 for example?
06:06 PM JT-Shop-2: homing only sets up the machine to obey the soft limits and has nothing to do with machining
06:07 PM JT-Shop-2: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/user/user-concepts.html#_g53_machine_coordinate
06:10 PM * JT-Shop-2 wanders inside now
06:14 PM hendrik_cnc: yeah of course but the machine should know if the homing coordinates are at 0 or at the travel end or not
06:16 PM JT-Shop-2: you set the +- travel from home in your configuration
06:17 PM JT-Shop-2: normally you just move off the switch a tad and call that 0 for the axis unless your homing to an encoder index then you just call that 0
06:17 PM hendrik_cnc: ok thanks
06:18 PM JT-Shop-2: when you setup for a job you set the G54 coordinate system to make the part coordinates be correct
06:19 PM JT-Shop-2: usually front of back jaw in vise is Y0, top of material is Z0 and one side of material is X0 depends on how you did your cam
06:20 PM JT-Shop-2: I see Mona Lisa is enjoying the fresh dirt in the dust bath
07:42 PM enleth: hendrik_cnc: from my experience, you can get the most (in terms of safety, versatility, flexibility of configuration, etc.) out of a three switch per axis setup
07:44 PM enleth: hendrik_cnc: two limit switches that are actually hard electrical limits (they really should be installed in such a way that the actual mechanical hard limit is a bit further down, far enough for whatever braking you're using on estop to stop the moving parts), and one home switch that is either somewhere in the middle of travel or close but not right next to one of the limits
07:44 PM enleth: hendrik_cnc: that way, your limit switch and home switch wiring *and* configuration is completely independent
07:45 PM enleth: hendrik_cnc: you can configure a home switch offset anyway, so even if the physical switch is somewhere in the middle, it doesn't mean the 0 of the default coordinate system ends up right there too
07:46 PM enleth: obviously, you do need a "ride-through" home switch for such a setup, but that's not hard to do
07:48 PM enleth: hendrik_cnc: actually, the best configuration I can think of is a home switch activated by a cam long enough that it stays engaged all the way until the closest limit switch gets hit
07:48 PM enleth: so that the homing logic is completely unambiguous
07:49 PM enleth: 0) if home switch pressed: move away and off of it a bit, there's a limit in the other direction
07:49 PM enleth: 1) move towards the home switch until it engages
07:49 PM enleth: 2) move back until it disengages
07:50 PM enleth: 3) set zero
07:50 PM enleth: 2 is done slowly
07:53 PM enleth: hendrik_cnc: as mentioned above, if you have an index channel on the encoders (and you probably do on a servo-based machine), that can be used to increase homing repeatability, as long as the home switch has a repeat error less than the distance between two index pulses
07:57 PM enleth: that is, it is possible to configure perfetly repeatable homing that would allow you to resume setups across powerups without any further edgefinding or whatever
07:57 PM enleth: or was that less than half the index pulse distance?
08:44 PM hazzy-dev: enleth: I think if homing to an index the home switch only has to repeat within the distance between index pulses, because it searches for the index in the same direction each time, it does not find the closest index
08:49 PM hazzy-dev: Had a haas once that after some service was homing to a point that was one screw pitch off from where it should have been
08:51 PM hazzy-dev: Took a while to realize that the ballnut had been removed and put back rotated 180deg, so the relation between the limit switch and the index had changed
09:38 PM enleth: hazzy-dev: makes sense. anyway, the above is exactly how my mill does homing and limits and I can't think of any better configuration, but you obviously have to wire 9 switches and mount them such that they can be passed completely, not hit head-on
09:41 PM enleth: well, not "exactly" to be honest, my limit switches are wired to a hardware e-stop that cuts servo power and slams ballscrew brakes closed, completely bypassing the Mesa board, linuxcnc and whatnot
09:42 PM enleth: but linuxcnc does have soft limits configured relative to the home switches, about 0.5mm away from each limit switch
09:43 PM enleth: and I never had it trip any of the electrical limits outside of setup and configuration testing
09:47 PM enleth: even that was mostly during braking tests, to ensure that it can actually brake from full speed over a limit switch to a dead stop before it hits a mechanical limit or pulls a ballscrew out of its nut
10:03 PM hazzy-dev: enleth: Yes, the limit and home switch arrangement you describe is how it should be done.
10:03 PM hazzy-dev: You can get away with just limits, but if a servo drive fails then you are in trouble.
10:05 PM hazzy-dev: I had a drive fail on the Y-axis of a big '83 Bridgeport CNC during a retrofit. I had the home switches connected but not the limits
10:07 PM hazzy-dev: The Y servo went all out and ripped the the threads at the bearing end of the screw right thru the bearing block
10:08 PM hazzy-dev: Fortunately I was able to re thread the end of the ballscrew and salvage it, but I learned a lesson
10:11 PM hazzy-dev: enleth: So it is good that you have the limits connected to the e-stop circuit so they work independent of the mesa hardware
10:24 PM enleth: hazzy-dev: '83 Bridgeport CNC with ballscrews sounds like something very close to what I have
10:24 PM enleth: Series I CNC, R2E3 or something like this?
10:25 PM enleth: ah, I just noticed the 'retrofit' part
10:25 PM enleth: so I guess that was originally a manual machine?
10:30 PM hazzy-dev: enleth: I meant retrofit with LCNC, it is a BP Boss 10 CNC, so it does not have a fixed head like your R2E3
10:30 PM hazzy-dev: The fixed head it nice!
10:31 PM hazzy-dev: Basically the same machine otherwise
10:35 PM hazzy-dev: If you look hard you might be able to spot it amidst the junk in this pic: https://i.imgur.com/xF40GSK.jpg
10:35 PM hazzy-dev: :D
10:46 PM enleth: hazzy-dev: actually looking at that photo, I think Boss 10 uses "manual" iron
10:52 PM hazzy-dev: enleth: Yes, for the most part it does, the only difference is in the head
10:52 PM hazzy-dev: The head castings look similar to a 2J, but are not the same. Beats me why they would have made a head that was different but so similar to a manual head, when something like what the R2E2 has is better for CNC apps and much simpler
10:53 PM enleth: hazzy-dev: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTBRgHwezTY
10:53 PM enleth: hazzy-dev: note the widened knee-saddle ways and the X motor/transmission mounted on the saddle, not the table
10:55 PM hazzy-dev: It was funny to watch it ridged tap with the original control (blew me away that it had that capability!), it had a little pneumatic cylinder on the brake lever, and would use that to brake fast and then reverse the motor
10:55 PM hazzy-dev: I see, that machine is much heavery built
10:56 PM hazzy-dev: I did not know they spun the nut for the x axis, I like that
10:56 PM hazzy-dev: Well, I assume the nuts spins and not the screw
10:57 PM enleth: yes, it makes a huge difference in table loading
10:57 PM enleth: all those old manual BPs with table power feeds on 42" tables that sat in someone's garage for the last 30 years - well, you're basically buying a cast iron banana with a nice stand
10:58 PM enleth: they're FUBAR with that motor bearing down on the table for decades
10:58 PM hazzy-dev: Haha, its true! It is amazing how much more they wear on the PF end
11:00 PM hazzy-dev: I have a old beat of manual '71 BP, but fortunately is was used for only one opperation all its live drilling two holes in graphite, and only the y axis was ever moved, so x is in pristine shape. Fact that it only saw graphite dust also helped reduce wear ...
11:02 PM enleth: on the other hand, the wear in Y might be unfixable without rescraping if it's deep enough
11:02 PM enleth: I'd rather avoid production machines that are worn in very deep in one place, in favor of job shop machines that are more likely to be uniformly worn
11:03 PM hazzy-dev: Well the bottom of the tables was not chromed but the full knee is chromed, so the knees wear much less
11:03 PM enleth: nice, I didn't know they chromed manual machines
11:04 PM hazzy-dev: They did, but a lot of folks did not pay the extra for it
11:05 PM enleth: mine is chromed (both knee surfaces, both saddle surfaces, only the underside of the table isn't), and although there is quite a bit of visible wear on the chrome layer but it doesn't seem to come up very much in measurements
11:05 PM enleth: s/but/,/
11:06 PM enleth: I'm too lazy to try to re-scrape the whole thing, so I figured it's fine for what I need
11:06 PM hazzy-dev: It is surprising how much a machine can wear and still be reasonably accurate
11:07 PM hazzy-dev: I don't know how you go about scraping a chromed machine
11:07 PM hazzy-dev: grind the chrom off first?
11:07 PM enleth: remove chrome, scrape like normal
11:07 PM enleth: there was a way to strip chrome in a chemical bath
11:08 PM hazzy-dev: Ah, that makes sense
11:08 PM hazzy-dev: The appears to be quite thick, id say it looks like 10 thou
11:08 PM hazzy-dev: the chrome
11:08 PM enleth: a brave enough vintage car repair shop should be able to strip chrome and re-chrome scraped surfaces as well
11:09 PM hazzy-dev: I thought hard chroming and aesthetic chroming processes were very different?
11:09 PM enleth: but that's too much effort for an old machine anyway
11:10 PM hazzy-dev: Maybe the prep is just different, I know a lot of times they plate copper first for aesthetic chrome
11:11 PM enleth: I haven't done the research myself, just seen people discuss it on forums, so that might be correct - in any case, just stripping the chrome is probably doable in a car shop
11:12 PM hazzy-dev: I wonder how they originally 'masked off' the castings so the whole knee was not chromed
11:12 PM enleth: anyway, a much bigger problem - literally - is maintaining alignment of such huge parts during scraping
11:12 PM enleth: especially without a good gantry crane
11:13 PM hazzy-dev: yes, I think it might be a good excuse to invest in some lasers ...
11:13 PM hazzy-dev: :D
11:14 PM enleth: old scraping experts have their own tricks and don't need any heavy equipment or a lot of space, but this knowledge is dying out
11:14 PM hazzy-dev: I have always wanted to take one of the Richard King scraping classes. He did one localy a few years back but I had finals that week :(
11:14 PM enleth: well, I was pretty much thinking "Richard King" when I wrote the last sentence
11:14 PM hazzy-dev: He is the MASTER!
11:16 PM enleth: I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he managed to scrape a machine square and true with a school kid's plastic ruler and a dull teaspoon
11:19 PM hazzy-dev: He would first use the plastic ruler to make a highly precise iron straight edge, and then use that to scrape the machine :P
11:19 PM hazzy-dev: Ok, I am out of coffee so that means it is time to sleep
11:19 PM hazzy-dev: Good chatting with you enleth