Apr 21 2018
12:29 AM fragalot: hi
12:33 AM fragalot: hi
12:33 AM gloops: hello
12:33 AM gloops: hello
01:18 AM SpeedEvil: Some of those are quite awesome.
01:18 AM SpeedEvil: And it's gonna depend on if it's done all by hand,or machine assisted or even CNC
01:19 AM gloops: yeah, you look at the photos of the person working, its just someone with a ball of a clay in one hand, no fancy set up
01:19 AM SpeedEvil: CNC angle grinder could rough out a hell of a lot very, very fast alone.
01:19 AM SpeedEvil: Oh - it's clay - nvm
01:19 AM fragalot: gloops: the same could be said for those wooden ornaments you linked to a few times.
01:19 AM fragalot: who would want to decorate their cabinet a little?
01:19 AM fragalot: or god forbit their stairs
01:20 AM gloops: i wouldnt oddly enough
01:20 AM gloops: im a bit of a shaker in that respect
01:20 AM fragalot: so everything you make is engineered square with flat surfaces everywhere
01:20 AM fragalot: if so, why do you need blender?
01:21 AM SpeedEvil: You can use blender as a pure engineering tool.
01:21 AM gloops: but many rich people do, must be part of the rich and powerful psyche
01:21 AM SpeedEvil: It rather sucks for that, but you can
01:21 AM gloops: fragalot im not making stuff for myself
01:21 AM fragalot: SpeedEvil: there are better tools for that job though :-)
01:21 AM SpeedEvil: fragalot: yes.
01:21 AM SpeedEvil: fragalot: a depressingly low number of decent free ones.
01:21 AM SpeedEvil: fragalot: One of the areasIwould invest inif I had a billion dollars.
01:22 AM fragalot: True
01:22 AM SpeedEvil: That and the solid gold solid gold storage box.
01:22 AM fragalot: Fusion360 is like the golden goose that won't lay an egg for hobbyists
01:22 AM gloops: i think blender is overlooked for engineering, you can do everything that solidworks can do
01:22 AM fragalot: it's there, you know it could work, but it just doesn't once you've used anything else :P
01:24 AM fragalot: gloops: and a wheelbarrow can do what a lorry can do too
01:24 AM fragalot: doesn't mean it's the right tool
01:24 AM SpeedEvil: gloops: yes, but the UI really could do with a mode to pull out all of the non shape related stuff.
01:25 AM SpeedEvil: If you know what I mean.
01:25 AM fragalot: don't get me wrong, blender is /AMAZING/, but it's not an engineering tool
01:27 AM gloops: yeah but a hobbyist isnt drawing a jet engine, hes drawing a bracket, or a plate with some holes in it
01:27 AM gloops: the best other alternative is probably learn where to find warez
01:28 AM SpeedEvil: gloops: It's terrible to be drawing a bracket, or a plate with holes in it, to be frank.
01:29 AM fragalot: try doing sheet metal work in blender, unfolding the model, exporting a DXF to get it lasercut, etc.. without using a 3rd party tool
01:29 AM gloops: well it has to be done if you want the machine to cut it
01:31 AM gloops: one reason i wouldnt cnc my lathe, i dont draw most parts i make on it at all
01:31 AM fragalot: if it's just poking holes you don't really need to make a drawing, if it's a one-off that doesn't fit a larger CAD assembly
01:31 AM gloops: i just knoe this has to be 20mm, that that has be 60mm etc, just a sketch maybe
01:31 AM fragalot: just type in the gcode, probably faster than doing it the CAD/CAM route
01:32 AM gloops: by the time you drawn in cad and got g-code its already made
01:32 AM gloops: hmm yes thats probably best fragalot
01:43 AM Deejay: moin
02:09 AM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest20847
02:10 AM gloops: well, slightly disappointed with these drivers, they arent leadshine which i suspected but paid the same, they arent even a decent attempt at a leadshine externally, hopefully the internals are
03:28 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
03:28 AM IchGucksLive: all guests are on Forest routes today we serve around 150 people
03:50 AM * Loetmichel is at my mother in laws new apaartment again. To do the rest of the painting and then rip out the old carpet. home improvement shop STILL didint call to tell me when they will deliver the new carpets/cork-laminate to lay. Hopefully i will have that done next weekend so i can have some time off again... this is digging in my power reserves already, thats the 5th weekend in a row that
03:50 AM * Loetmichel i have to renovate here (400km from home)
04:01 AM gloops: cheaper to move in with her Loetmichel
04:03 AM Loetmichel: gloops: not if i can help it... apart from not be willing to drive 400km times two each day to get to work Celle is a city where NOTHING happens. its boring and way to far off to be useable as a home for me.
05:27 AM * jthornton finally broke the 180 barrier and came in at 179.8 this morning
05:27 AM pink_vampire: ?????????????????
05:27 AM jthornton: I used to weigh 240 pounds and want to weigh 175 pounds
05:28 AM fragalot: well done :)
05:29 AM jthornton: it's been a long journey for sure but I'll never go back
05:32 AM Loetmichel: jthornton: never say never. i used to weight less than 140lbs and are now at about 274 lbs... and the way back is quite hard---
05:33 AM fragalot: I once weighed under 4lbs, but haven't managed to get back to that yet
05:33 AM jthornton: I'm never going to eat like I used to it's a mind set thing
05:34 AM jthornton: yea I don't want to weigh 4 pounds for a long time if I can help it
05:35 AM pink_vampire: wow that is huge accomplishment!
05:36 AM jthornton: it's taken my quite a long time to get here
05:36 AM jthornton: my/me
05:38 AM pink_vampire: i'm too skinny, and to gain weight is much harder then loosing it
05:39 AM jthornton: drink more beer
05:39 AM pink_vampire: no!
05:40 AM jthornton: it's liquid bread
05:40 AM jthornton: I used to drink a lot of beer but now I only have one a day except for vacations
05:41 AM pink_vampire: i'm eating healthy food, and some time SPAM, i love it! (also very nice container)
05:42 AM jthornton: a lot of Hawaiian dishes use SPAM
05:43 AM jthornton: it was the only meat you could get during WW2 unless you hunted a pig down
05:43 AM pink_vampire: LOL
05:47 AM pink_vampire: https://youtu.be/cbbLQcEyz20
05:48 AM pink_vampire: i love how he tap on that with his finger and everything flex
05:49 AM phipli: good enough for foam sculpture I guess... perhaps not wood
05:50 AM jthornton: cool
05:50 AM jthornton: morning phipli
05:50 AM phipli: he should get it made in metal
05:50 AM jthornton: oh he's using a RPi
05:50 AM phipli: morning jthornton
05:50 AM Deejay: hey there
05:51 AM jthornton: hey Deejay
05:51 AM Deejay: morning jt
05:53 AM phipli: ah right - it is nylon
05:53 AM phipli: I assumed it was printed
05:53 AM pink_vampire: it is printed
05:53 AM phipli: didn't know you could print nylon
05:54 AM fragalot: PA66 is the most common for powder printers
05:54 AM pink_vampire: but he made it so long
05:54 AM fragalot: and is growing in popularity with the better FDM printers, though there are concerns with carcinogens being released if the temperatuer isn't EXACTLY right
05:56 AM phipli: I can't wait for when 3D printers are better
05:56 AM phipli: like the move from 80s to late 90s printers
05:56 AM phipli: (regular printers)
05:57 AM phipli: (well, inkjet. laser printers were always amazing, if expensive)
05:57 AM Loetmichel: phipli: i sitll have a laserjet4+
05:58 AM Loetmichel: that has about 1 million pages now
05:58 AM phipli: I need to get some bits for my old laser
05:58 AM Loetmichel: still running strong :-)
05:58 AM phipli: it is scrunching up paper
05:58 AM jthornton: laser printers are cheap now
05:58 AM phipli: true
05:59 AM Loetmichel: JT-Shop: sonsidering their life expectancy they were cheap back then
05:59 AM phipli: my dad bought his in 1991 and it is still running
05:59 AM jthornton: I finally broke down and bought one for my business a couple of years ago
05:59 AM Loetmichel: and considering that a toner cartridge for that 4+ cost 30Eur and lasts 8000 pages...
05:59 AM phipli: mind you, so is my A3 daisywheel...
05:59 AM phipli: should set that up again, it is awesome
06:00 AM jthornton: a dot matrix printer?
06:00 AM Loetmichel: phipli: my dad had an A3 Line printer at the company
06:00 AM phipli: jthornton, no, different - I'll find a link
06:00 AM jthornton: I used my last sheet of pin feed paper the other day...
06:01 AM Loetmichel: tha kind taht works like a cashier printer with the big drum with letters on all columns and 127 hammers in front of the paper
06:01 AM Loetmichel: .... and 10k lines per minute :-)
06:01 AM phipli: http://www.eeeguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Daisy-Wheel-Printer.jpg
06:01 AM phipli: sort of like that?
06:01 AM phipli: loads of letters on a circle (daisywheel)
06:01 AM jthornton: cool
06:01 AM phipli: then a bit like an electronic typewriter
06:01 AM Loetmichel: no, not a daisay wheel
06:01 AM phipli: get infinite resolution... sort of
06:02 AM phipli: jthornton, you had to physically change the font
06:02 AM Loetmichel: a line printer that has a deum with 127 columns of 127 letters/symbols embossed on it totating behind the paper, and a ink ribbon and 127 hammers in front of the paper
06:02 AM Loetmichel: drum
06:03 AM phipli: they're the fast printers aren't they?
06:03 AM phipli: for doing large batches of printing
06:04 AM Loetmichel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Drum-printer.jpg <- like that
06:04 AM Loetmichel: just bigger :_)
06:04 AM Loetmichel: and with 10000lines per minute print capability
06:04 AM Loetmichel: and INSANELY loud :-)
06:04 AM Loetmichel: lines per minute, not cps :-)
06:06 AM phipli: feeling retro this week - I got a couple of new accounts set up on "the mainframe"
06:06 AM phipli: not sure if it still runs on original hardware, but it was an old IBM mainframe of some description
06:07 AM phipli: some over enthusiastic paper pusher deleted my account
06:10 AM phipli: originally ran on two IBM system/370 or similar...
06:20 AM gloops: well better get this wiring finished, strange how the early enthusiasm and speed fades, i want this thing running badly but its given me such a hard time the eagerness isnt being converted into effort
06:23 AM jthornton: gloops: did you get the new drivers?
06:23 AM gloops: yeah theyre on, ive run a new cable from the house on its own ciruit breaker to the machine, just going to connect it up in a minute
06:25 AM phipli: jthornton, more playing with gtk : http://elephantandchicken.co.uk/misc/plotGUI.png
06:25 AM jthornton: cool
06:25 AM jthornton: what are you plotting?
06:25 AM phipli: that is hourly temperatures for a year
06:26 AM phipli: dataset about 8500 points
06:26 AM phipli: set the number of points shown on the left, then scroll through them with the bar at the bottom
06:26 AM jthornton: cool
06:29 AM phipli: what ide / text editor do you use?
06:29 AM jthornton: gedit
06:29 AM phipli: I've been using Geany
06:29 AM jthornton: or notepad ++ on windoze
06:29 AM phipli: I use notepad++ at work
06:29 AM phipli: good little program
06:30 AM jthornton: I have geany on this pc
06:32 AM phipli: when you're doing C / C++ stuff it can be handy because you can set the make commands up in the menu easily
06:32 AM phipli: with all the specific settings
06:32 AM phipli: and add others for the upload if you're doing embedded stuff
06:33 AM jthornton: I need to try geany next time I code something
07:12 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/misc/chick-inn.jpg
07:14 AM phipli: is that cut and flooded?
07:14 AM jthornton: v carved then spray paint and sand off the paint
07:15 AM phipli: I've been meaning to have a play with a 45 degree bit
07:15 AM jthornton: I did that with a 60° bit
07:16 AM phipli: reminds me - I've got some face panels to cut out of foamed pvc at some point this weekend
07:16 AM jthornton: foamed pcv?
07:17 AM phipli: https://www.perspex.co.uk/getmedia/a65f9953-b4cb-4c5c-aca2-3a09316ba15e/Palight-Colours/?width=942&height=411&ext=.jpg
07:17 AM phipli: nice and easy to cut
07:17 AM phipli: slightly tougher than builders foam
07:17 AM jthornton: foam with a pvc skin?
07:18 AM phipli: a foam made of pvc I think
07:18 AM jthornton: ah
07:18 AM phipli: half way between foam insulation and sofa cushion foam :)
07:18 AM phipli: folds rather than snaps, but cuts well
07:19 AM jthornton: I've not seen that over here but they may have it at Hobby Lobby
07:19 AM phipli: there is a brand name "foamex"
07:19 AM phipli: it is irritatingly expensive though
07:19 AM phipli: probably cheap by the tonne, but I only need a bit
07:20 AM jthornton: yea who needs a ton of it
07:20 AM phipli: mind you, a tonne of foam is probably HUGE
07:21 AM jthornton: yea would not fit in your car
07:22 AM phipli: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO-ttUAiVDw
07:23 AM phipli: hum.
07:25 AM * jthornton heads out to start an oil change in the van
07:25 AM phipli: good luck
07:32 AM miss0r: fragalot: hello :9
07:41 AM gloops: right, 1 minute or so of chopping Y around, no issue, will check scale then run the same code that stunned the tb6600 last week
07:44 AM gloops: after this cig and tea
07:47 AM Loetmichel: soo... 2 more corners at the balcony door, then all the top edges wall/ceiling in the bedroom, then i am done with painting. ripping out the carpet afterwards, then waiting for the home improvement shop to deliver. Hopefully the new carpet will be done next weekend. i am tired of that job by now, its the fifth weekend that i drive 400km to do my Mother in laws appartment renovation and then
07:47 AM Loetmichel: 400km back to get back in time to work on monday. Battery pretty empty :-(
07:56 AM gloops: too much Loetmichel you arent 24
07:58 AM Loetmichel: indeed
08:29 AM fragalot: miss0r: Hello?
08:33 AM miss0r: yes, this is miss0r
08:34 AM miss0r: fragalot: ^
08:35 AM fragalot: \o/
08:37 AM fragalot: 31°C in my garden today
08:38 AM miss0r: hot here too
08:38 AM miss0r: Not as hot as yesterday, though
09:14 AM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
09:49 AM Brigi: Hey linux CNC, designing a DC power strip, is there a convention in EE for if positive is on the left or right hand side when looking at an outlet?
09:50 AM fragalot: not that i'm aware of?
09:50 AM Brigi: fragalot, I've never encountered it.
09:57 AM Loetmichel: Brigi: depends on your country
09:57 AM Loetmichel: ah, DC
09:57 AM Loetmichel: sorry
09:57 AM Loetmichel: nope, you can do it as wou want, just make + and - clearly visible
09:57 AM Brigi: Loetmichel, NP, but I'm curious which side is positive in AC. XD
09:57 AM fragalot: industry can't even decide if DC- is the inside, or the outside of a barrel jack :P
09:57 AM Brigi: fragalot, In my shop, inside, always!
09:57 AM fragalot: Brigi: the word you're looking for is "neutral"
09:58 AM Loetmichel: Brigi: a lot of people call the "hot" wire "positive" although its ac
09:58 AM Brigi: fragalot, That's why it funny to me.
09:58 AM Brigi: Loetmichel, I didn't realize people did that! We'll have t educate them.
09:58 AM fragalot: Brigi: Everyone else appears to use DC- on the outside barrel though; but they still make the switch so that the" halfway" position switches the outside leg, rather than the inside
09:59 AM Brigi: fragalot, What switch?
09:59 AM fragalot: barrel jack receptacles typically have 3 legs
10:00 AM Brigi: fragalot, Oh, the disconnect.
10:00 AM Brigi: got it.
10:00 AM fragalot: yes.
10:00 AM Loetmichel: brig: i used to make lap PSUs out of old ATX PSUs. thats how i made the plug board:
10:00 AM uw: hey has anybody done a servo set up with the 7i76e?
10:00 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3150&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
10:01 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3147&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
10:01 AM Loetmichel: Brigi
10:03 AM Brigi: Loetmichel, To + on top, that convention can not apply here.
10:14 AM gloops: well this 'problem' is whupping my ass, changed driver, now axis works fine, but back to spindle interference
10:16 AM gloops: tommorrow another day on it
10:28 AM Tom_L: gloops you're sure having your share of grief on that thing
10:29 AM gloops: i think my brain is getting noise issues haha
10:29 AM gloops: back where i was 2 month ago!
10:30 AM gloops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asHzq3ox6rA
10:30 AM gloops: that is the exact issue
10:30 AM gloops: he says spindle ground fault, ive had the spindle off on the table, no change
10:31 AM Tom_L: get a GFIC receptacle and try running it thru that to verify
10:31 AM Tom_L: easy cheap test
10:31 AM gloops: wouldnt the spindle body need to be touching the frame though?
10:32 AM Tom_L: if there's a ground fault the outlet will trip
10:32 AM fragalot: I'm not giving any advice until you show pictures of all parts involved
10:32 AM gloops: nothing is tripping
10:32 AM Tom_L: not even you?
10:33 AM gloops: fragalot if i show you pics youll say this needs to be there and that should be here, im pretty certain it isnt the wiring in the box
10:33 AM gloops: ive had everything out of the box apart, it doesnt change
10:34 AM fragalot: have you had everything grounded CORRECTLY, especially the shielding?
10:34 AM gloops: ill rule out the bob tommorrow
10:34 AM fragalot: no daisy changing, has to be in star, and the shielding of the VFD must be connected to the chassis on both ends without twisting it into a wire
10:35 AM gloops: i think it probably is a ground issue, the shielding is grounded everything is grounded haha
10:35 AM gloops: are you really sure stuff like that is going to cause this kind of problem?
10:35 AM gloops: this is not some missed steps here and there
10:35 AM fragalot: noise can be repeatable
10:36 AM fragalot: eg. every time the VFD is at a certain frequency it jitters the axis
10:36 AM Tom_L: gloops it's possible
10:36 AM Tom_L: i had issues with my sherline
10:36 AM fragalot: most of the time it's a ground that's floating, or an inducted current somewhere from EMI
10:36 AM Tom_L: but once i figured it out, i've had no problems on my new mill at all
10:36 AM fragalot: I've seen these issues in industry many times, and it's always easilly fixed when following proper guidelines on shielding
10:37 AM fragalot: one thing to do is to ensure everything is on the same ground
10:37 AM gloops: well i havent measured today, but last time the crazy signal was coming from the bob
10:37 AM fragalot: connecting the DC- from your switching power supplies to ground too
10:37 AM Tom_L: gloops could be bleeding back thru something to the BOB
10:37 AM fragalot: if the bob has a power supply, make sure that's connected to the same ground
10:37 AM gloops: thats one thing i doubt, the bob gets 5v from the usb
10:38 AM fragalot: where does the usb come form?
10:38 AM fragalot: PC or lapotp?
10:38 AM gloops: but the ground - the only ground pin for 5v is on the other side
10:38 AM Tom_L: try a SMPS to the BOB
10:38 AM gloops: PC
10:38 AM Tom_L: all my power comes from within the control box
10:38 AM Tom_L: via regulators etc
10:39 AM Tom_L: all to 1 ground
10:39 AM gloops: BUT as i said, this setup worked fine before
10:39 AM Tom_L: how's it workin for ya now?
10:39 AM gloops: it isnt
10:39 AM Tom_L: forget about before
10:39 AM Tom_L: work the problem
10:39 AM gloops: the only difference is a metal box
10:39 AM fragalot: gloops: if you have a multimeter, attach one lead to GND, and start probing the DC- everywhere
10:39 AM fragalot: if one shows a different reading than the others, fix that
10:40 AM Tom_L: good place to start
10:40 AM gloops: the DC ?
10:40 AM gloops: 5v, 12v, 50v
10:40 AM fragalot: DC negative, when using switched power supplies, should be connected to ground.
10:40 AM gloops: missor said that before
10:40 AM fragalot: otherwise one starts to float around, and weird things happen
10:41 AM gloops: you want me to ground the negative pin on the psu?
10:41 AM fragalot: yes.
10:41 AM Tom_L: measure the potential there before you do to see
10:41 AM gloops: well, ill do it, i cant see any logical connection though
10:42 AM gloops: another thing i notice, if i unground the metal box the problem is less
10:42 AM gloops: when the box is grounded its crazy
10:42 AM gloops: as soon as spindle moves
10:42 AM fragalot: that's because one of your parts isn't grounded correctly
10:42 AM fragalot: either it's the PC, the BOB, or one of the power supplies, or the vfd, or the spindle
10:42 AM fragalot: that's why it's important to have all of the DC negatives connected to the same ground reference
10:43 AM gloops: the usb should ground the bob?
10:43 AM fragalot: not necessarily
10:43 AM fragalot: and that's a different ground reference too
10:44 AM gloops: you cant cant ground the bob via a pin
10:44 AM gloops: there isnt a pin
10:44 AM fragalot: what bob are you using?
10:44 AM Tom_L: there IS a ground
10:45 AM gloops: https://i2.wp.com/www.ijohnsen.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/bob-banggood-image.png
10:45 AM gloops: bottom right is PC ground
10:45 AM gloops: thats where the drivers are grounded to
10:46 AM fragalot: I see 3 ground pins
10:46 AM fragalot: the 12V input one, the VFD 0-10V signal one, and the switch one on the left.
10:47 AM gloops: the one on the left is the 12-24v ground for input pins
10:47 AM fragalot: I think the picture you gave is mirrored :P
10:47 AM Tom_L: i've seen those mirrored on ebay
10:48 AM fragalot: in any case - the 12V power supply should be connected to ground
10:48 AM gloops: thats grounded to the VFD common rail ground
10:48 AM gloops: on mine
10:48 AM fragalot: the 0-10V output should go directy to the VFD with no common ground connected if possible
10:49 AM gloops: both go to common ground on vfd - only one ground pin on mine
10:49 AM gloops: apart from main power ground
10:49 AM fragalot: I think I'd need to either see it, or see a diagram
10:51 AM gloops: the best photo i had was from the manual because you can see the letters, you need a magnifying glass to read them on the vfd, but ill get some when i go back to it, there is no other way to wire it
10:51 AM gloops: a lot of vfds have seperate grounds, this one doesnt
10:52 AM fragalot: the 0-10V wires should certainly go directly from the BOB to the VFD
10:52 AM fragalot: is there a start/stop signal?
10:52 AM gloops: actually, the other thing that is different from before is that i now have 3 limit switches working on 12v
10:52 AM gloops: start stop yes from relay - that doesnt not trigger any problem, only when the spindle is given power
10:53 AM fragalot: ok, so you have these wires:
10:53 AM fragalot: 0-10V -> VFD input
10:54 AM gloops: yes
10:54 AM fragalot: 0-10V_gnd -> VFD GND
10:54 AM gloops: yes
10:54 AM pink_vampire: how do i identify a jacobs taper?
10:54 AM fragalot: P17-B -> VFD start (where does the other end of this relay switch to?)
10:54 AM Tom_L: pink_vampire https://littlemachineshop.com/reference/tapers.php
10:56 AM gloops: you have a 5v fragalot - vfd ground
10:57 AM pink_vampire: Tom_L: cool! thanks!
10:57 AM gloops: oops , fragalot the other end - vfd ground
10:57 AM fragalot: gloops: ok, and is the 12V- connected to earth?
10:58 AM pink_vampire: #6 0.6760 0.6241
10:58 AM gloops: spindle gnd again
10:58 AM fragalot: gloops: connect it to earth near the BOB.
10:58 AM fragalot: i'm suspecting that that will solve your problem
10:58 AM gloops: earth the 12v return?
10:59 AM fragalot: earth all DC negative power sources, yes.
10:59 AM fragalot: starting with that one
10:59 AM gloops: i have suspected that from the start, but thought maybe a fault in the bob allowing 12v to leak
10:59 AM gloops: ill do it tommorrow
11:00 AM fragalot: the issue is more that it has no good reference
11:00 AM fragalot: the ground in the VFD is likely to float mid-air
11:00 AM fragalot: so the signals the BOB sends to your drives also all float in mid air
11:00 AM gloops: what about the 0-10v ground?
11:00 AM fragalot: and the drives don't understand what you want them to do
11:00 AM gloops: earth that?
11:00 AM fragalot: that is a very weak analog signal, so try to keep that run directly from BOB to VFD with no stops
11:01 AM gloops: ok
11:01 AM fragalot: it should earth itself through the BOB once you grounded 12V-
11:01 AM fragalot: the important part there is that the bob measures the right voltage, which it can't do if you earth it outside of the board
11:03 AM fragalot: bbl.
11:03 AM gloops: ok will have a go tommorrow
11:05 AM Loetmichel: niice... cellphone here (thats my hotspot for internt radio and irc while painting) showes "E"(gprs-edge) with one of 5 signal bars all of a sudden. move it 5cm to the left: H+ with 3 of five bars... do i have to comprehend that?
11:27 AM gloops: something else ive noticed, this vfd has 2 screws along the bottom bank of pins, with earth signs, one each side
11:27 AM gloops: is that the chassis earth or something?
11:28 AM fragalot: yes
11:28 AM gloops: should be connected to metl box or ground?
11:28 AM fragalot: to the earth connection
11:29 AM gloops: there was a pin for that
11:29 AM fragalot: you should have a central earth connection, which is attached to your metal box, where all of the component earth wires go to
11:29 AM gloops: but why have 2 more earth connections
11:29 AM gloops: yes thats on the top rail where the signals/outputs are
11:30 AM fragalot: no it isn't
11:30 AM fragalot: I mean on your metal cabinet
11:30 AM gloops: on the lower rail i have 240v input, and the 3 phase wires to the spindle
11:33 AM gloops: nothing from the vfd is attached to the box or earthed only the 240v input
11:34 AM fragalot: there should be a bolt sticking out on the inside of your metal enclosure
11:34 AM fragalot: anything that has an "earth" symbol on it, should have a wire going to that
11:34 AM Tom_L: yeah that bolt should be full of wires
11:35 AM gloops: i thought the vfd would earth everything through the main 240v earth
11:35 AM fragalot: nope
11:39 AM fragalot: gloops: https://photos.app.goo.gl/2YZenfTEYnzJVsZs1 <= this is an example of one of my panels
11:39 AM fragalot: every earth connection goes to the bottom where I have a copper rail
11:39 AM fragalot: the DC negative of both those power supplies also go to that rail
11:40 AM fragalot: that rail then has a flat braided copper "wire" to the back of the panel
11:40 AM fragalot: and to the enclosure
11:40 AM fragalot: and to the door
11:40 AM fragalot: those 2 big cables coming in come in through an "EMC" gland, and have the mantle stripped for about 2cm inside of that cable gland
11:40 AM fragalot: that makes the shielding connection for those cables
11:41 AM fragalot: doing it like this ensures no high frequency noise can go anywhere, as it dissipates into the metal enclosure, and runs away via earth
11:41 AM fragalot: it also makes it so both power supplies are referenced to each-other
11:42 AM fragalot: that way they can't drift apart.
11:42 AM fragalot: there is also a controller in the door that isn't shown, but that also has an earth connection on it, for the same reason as described above
11:43 AM Tom_L: fragalot, that's just too damn neat!
11:43 AM gloops: right, will look over this and see what i can do tommorrow
11:43 AM fragalot: Tom_L: all hail quality subcontractors. :)
11:44 AM Tom_L: i used the bottom wire inlet pannel as an air inlet on mine for the fan
11:45 AM fragalot: there is no inlet panel on the stainless range from Rittal
11:45 AM gloops: ill get a photo of this manual wiring diagram
11:45 AM Tom_L: mine's a Rittal as well
11:45 AM fragalot: also, the fan is the wrong way around in this picture
11:45 AM fragalot: Tom_L: but not stainless.
11:45 AM Tom_L: no
11:45 AM fragalot: the painted series indeed have a removable bottom
11:46 AM Tom_L: i wish mine was bigger but it was cheap on ebay
11:47 AM fragalot: Tom_L: this is my cnc one, in progress. https://photos.app.goo.gl/94oLDGX92T1rgI6Y2
11:47 AM Tom_L: mine's a jumbled mess but it works good and i'm not changin it
11:47 AM fragalot: xD
11:48 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Control4.jpg
11:48 AM fragalot: it's upside down!
11:48 AM Tom_L: it is?
11:48 AM Tom_L: no...
11:49 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Control1.jpg
11:49 AM Tom_L: geckos are behind the heatsink on the door
11:49 AM fragalot: :)
11:49 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Control2.jpg
11:49 AM Tom_L: what a mess
11:50 AM Tom_L: works great though
11:50 AM fragalot: those caps look awful though
11:50 AM Tom_L: they're made that way
11:50 AM fragalot: that's why I said they look awful, not broken :D
11:50 AM Tom_L: all that was surplus
11:51 AM Tom_L: found the heatsink at the aluminum scrap
11:52 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/heatsink_bulk.jpg
11:52 AM Tom_L: ~6' long
11:52 AM SpeedEvil: Cool.
11:52 AM fragalot: nice
11:53 AM fragalot: I have a bin of random sized heatsinks to sort through
11:53 AM * SpeedEvil wishes it was possible to just have chips fall into a tray for remelting and come out as a nice block.
11:53 AM Tom_L: make a smelter
11:54 AM SpeedEvil: Tom_L: Considering it.
11:54 AM fragalot: SpeedEvil: there is no technical reason why that would not be possible.
11:54 AM SpeedEvil: fragalot: Contamination is a problem.
11:54 AM fragalot: problems are there to be solved
11:54 AM SpeedEvil: You'd need to be very particular about your coolant.
11:54 AM SpeedEvil: And perhaps also the atmosphere, may need to be inert for Al, for example.
11:55 AM SpeedEvil: Neglecting the fact that some grades of metal don't like being cast.
11:56 AM fragalot: SpeedEvil: replace coolant with high speed machining using coated carbide
11:56 AM fragalot: use an auger to move the chips from the chip tray into the processor
11:56 AM SpeedEvil: fragalot: sure.
11:56 AM fragalot: and only use casteable materials
11:57 AM SpeedEvil: Or determine alloy and mix them.
11:58 AM Tom_L: don't they use boron to remove the impurities?
11:58 AM Tom_L: may be guessing here..
11:59 AM fragalot: depends on the metal
11:59 AM fragalot: for lead you could use bog standard (clean) candlewax
12:07 PM IchGucksLive: hi all
12:07 PM fragalot: Hi IchGucksLive
02:14 PM gloops: right, tommorrow ill eliminate the 12v from the VFD to bob, no alternative 12v supply only a PC power pack to hand so ill try that
02:16 PM fragalot: gloops: that's good, but the main thing is the earth connections going to every DC power supply involved.
02:17 PM gloops: and look again at the vfd grounding lol
02:18 PM gloops: measuring the signal pins on the axis involved, there is some kind of pulse kicking up when the spindle is powered up
02:18 PM gloops: the only connections with the spindle are via the bob. 12v supply and pwm and relay
02:19 PM fragalot: yet there is no common ground that's connected between them properly
02:19 PM fragalot: which means that when the vfd's noise kicks in, it floats off to god knows where
02:19 PM gloops: i grounded the 12v as you said, it didnt affect anything
02:20 PM fragalot: are the others grounded?
02:21 PM gloops: relay and pwm no
02:21 PM fragalot: power supplies
02:21 PM fragalot: a relay is not a power supply
02:22 PM gloops: theyre grounded through the metal casing to the box
02:22 PM fragalot: the DC negatives?
02:22 PM gloops: ive swapped the jittery axis to the other power supply today - no difference
02:22 PM fragalot: did you explicitly connect them, or are you assuming the power supply does that internally
02:22 PM gloops: no i didnt do those yet
02:23 PM gloops: i assumed the psu grounds itself - thats what it said in the instructions
02:24 PM fragalot: the enclosure probably does, but the DC negative won't
02:24 PM gloops: i will do them, i wont get a shock off the box by doing that?
02:24 PM fragalot: well no.. it's all earthed.
02:26 PM pcw_home: What is the source of your VFD 12V?
02:27 PM gloops: the VFD has 12v out, im using that to power the bob pwm
02:28 PM gloops: why it only affects one axis i cant work out
02:28 PM pcw_home: are all the BOB VFD connections opto isolated?
02:28 PM gloops: i assume they will be
02:29 PM fragalot: I doubt it
02:30 PM gloops: well its only one of those cheapo chinese bobs
02:30 PM gloops: https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.dgjIzmX9QCTpYDnbwNWJnAHaHa&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300
02:32 PM gloops: if you put the multimeter on the driver pulse pins, the signal goes crazy, but there is a rythm to it, like a pulse
02:34 PM fragalot: that will be your meter picking up the carrier frequency of the VFD
02:35 PM gloops: right, ive watched a vid where someone reduces noise from the vfd by changing the carrier frequency, im working pretty blind so far as that kind of terminology goes i dont havent much idea what it means
02:37 PM gloops: id have more chance if something was NOT working, than playing up like this lol, i can go through a process of elimination and simple checks but i dont know how most of the components actually work
02:54 PM pcw_home: you may need a line filter on the VFD line power or a common mode choke on the VFD --> motor wires
02:58 PM gloops: well, ill try the obvious stuff first, the 12v supply is the only supply coming from the VFD to the bob, the choppy signal seems to originate in the bob
02:59 PM gloops: (and is connected to vfd/spindle activity)
03:37 PM dioz: the question is "why do structural drawing matter to sheet metal workers?"
03:37 PM dioz: drawings
03:38 PM dioz: is field fabrication skills beneficial?
03:38 PM Roguish: sheet metal can be structural........... sometimes, some structures.
03:38 PM dioz: i think the answer to the question is.... so you know the heights of the interior and exterior as well you know what objects you have to traverse with your ductage
03:39 PM dioz: it isn't like pipe, forming fitting does take a bit of time
03:39 PM dioz: you also know what you can possibly hang from
03:39 PM dioz: if you need beam clamps or if there's a cement subfloor above you and you're gonna need smack pins or drilled inserts
03:39 PM Roguish: if one cannot read a design drawing, one should not be a fabbricator....
03:40 PM dioz: shit son. about half my schooling is field fabrication
03:40 PM dioz: making OG offsets, transitional OG offsets, square to round, mitered cones, pairs of pants, t branches
03:41 PM dioz: "drafting class"
03:42 PM dioz: someone needs to make a form roller that fits in the back of a 1/2 ton truck
03:42 PM dioz: that can just print fittings
03:42 PM dioz: big scroll of 18 gauge or something
03:43 PM dioz: i know they make 'em for eve + trough
03:43 PM dioz: roll full sections of trough
03:43 PM dioz: no breaks in 'em
03:45 PM dioz: i guess you'd still need the other machines to roll up pitsburgs or do some kind of easy edge
03:45 PM dioz: snap lock, groove seamer, etc
03:45 PM dioz: longitudinal seams
03:46 PM dioz: be more than a 1/2 ton i guess
03:46 PM dioz: one of my final projects included making shop drawings from scratch
03:46 PM dioz: a few sectional drawings
03:47 PM dioz: get the 2H and the 4H and the HB lead out with the 2mm lead holder
03:47 PM dioz: pro title blocks
03:49 PM dioz: some guys call 'em "cut views"
03:50 PM dioz: drawing weld symbols
03:50 PM gloops: what do you make sheet metal stuff dioz?
03:50 PM dioz: duct
03:51 PM dioz: duct fittings
03:51 PM dioz: blow pipe systems
03:51 PM dioz: pretty much anything that can be made with sheet metal
03:51 PM dioz: i'm a terrible welder though
03:51 PM dioz: i've never spent much time doing it
03:52 PM dioz: i can spot something up and slop a haggard bead
03:52 PM dioz: if i can get right down nicely over top of it and get comfortable i can stack some dimes
03:53 PM dioz: huff the fumes a bit
03:53 PM dioz: i should really invest some quality time into cad/cam
03:54 PM Roguish: yes you should. invest in yourself and your skills.
03:54 PM dioz: finals next week
03:54 PM miss0r: Using heat to release super glue on a quite large aluminium workpiece... I did not think this one through :D
03:55 PM dioz: "steel shapes"
03:55 PM dioz: "W" indicates shape: the beam is a wide-flange I beam"
03:56 PM dioz: who would have thought there's so many different types of steel shapes
03:56 PM dioz: L, S, C, W, T, T2
03:57 PM dioz: an example of a beam is "W18x50"
03:58 PM dioz: which means it's a wide flange beam that's 18 inches deep and weighs 50 pounds per linear foot
04:13 PM Deejay: gn8
04:34 PM TeslaTony: I need to build a computer to run a MaxNC 10 mill. Anyone have any recommendations, hardware wise?
10:04 PM codepython777: has anyone here heard of shaperorigin?
10:04 PM codepython777: used one?
10:06 PM Rab: codepython777, y/n
10:07 PM Rab: If I paid $2,400 for a router, I'd feel like a sucker having to stand there and hold it.
10:07 PM codepython777: Rab: it would be fun to build one with raspberry pi and a decent router
10:07 PM codepython777: then open source the project :)
10:08 PM codepython777: Rab: http://www.maslowcnc.com ?
10:08 PM Rab: It's probably like the Segway, in the sense that once the control theory is demonstrated for the first time, the implementation becomes a mere exercise. 10 years later everybody's kid has a hoverboard.
10:09 PM codepython777: Rab: Maslow cnc seems a better version of the shaper origin?
10:09 PM Rab: I hear the bit retracts when it realizes it's outside the work envelope. That seems like an unusual router capability, unless the plunge is motorized.
10:10 PM Rab: codepython777, or a really poor version of a vertical gantry router, depending on your perspective.
10:11 PM Rab: I don't mean to say it's not a cool project, I just don't know if it's super practical.
10:12 PM codepython777: Rab: I am looking for assembling something that helps me build a real boat :) cut big ply or other things...in feets, not inches - I've made things in my small CNC - so keeping my eyes open
10:12 PM Rab: Shaper Origin uses optical coded tape for orientation IIRC. Pretty cool.
10:13 PM Rab: codepython777, that definitely makes sense as an application...workpieces larger than any reasonable machine.
10:14 PM codepython777: Rab: Anything else i should be looking at for that? < $3k
10:14 PM Rab: codepython777, can you work within 4x8ft?
10:15 PM codepython777: not on my cnc - but 4x8 would be nice to have for a cutter
10:16 PM codepython777: Rab: were you thinking of shapeoko type stuff?
10:17 PM Rab: codepython777, you could try a couple of low-tech approaches: a pantograph which tracks a smaller template you can cut on your existing CNC. Or, use a video projector to cast the pattern and follow it by eye with a handheld router.
10:18 PM codepython777: I didnt think about the video projector part
10:20 PM Rab: You could also project, trace with marker, then follow the markings. I've seen large murals painted that way.
10:21 PM Rab: But the Maslow CNC might be a good fit for your application.
10:23 PM codepython777: Rab: what are you working on? Using?
10:23 PM Rab: codepython777, working on tiny things, mostly polycarbonate sheet and enclosures.
10:23 PM Rab: And with a homemade 18x24 router.
10:24 PM codepython777: Rab: If I want to make 12" 2" 2" boxes - 500 pieces - any suggestions on how i should go about it?
10:24 PM Rab: codepython777, wood?
10:25 PM codepython777: I thought of wood + laser cutting
10:25 PM codepython777: it still sounds like it would not be easy - in that quantity
10:25 PM codepython777: My Price target < $7 per piece
10:26 PM Rab: I'd look for a local commercial shop, and supply materials, unless you have lots of time + little money.
10:27 PM codepython777: Rab: Lots of time = how many hours? :)
10:27 PM Rab: Home Depot sells wood floor underlayment that's really cheap for the area and pretty robust.
10:27 PM codepython777: Rab: isnt that a roll - not a solid material?
10:28 PM Rab: codepython777, I cannot say. But estimate maybe 20 minutes per box for a home CNC, and scale it from there?
10:28 PM Rab: codepython777, no, 4x8 sheets.
10:28 PM codepython777: 20 mins per box + how much for the material?
10:29 PM Rab: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Underlayment-Common-7-32-in-x-4-ft-x-8-ft-Actual-0-196-in-x-48-in-x-96-in-431178/203183010
10:29 PM Rab: Divide box pattern into 4x8 ft. ;)
10:29 PM Rab: Gotta go, good luck!