#linuxcnc Logs
Apr 11 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:36 AM Deejay: moin
12:40 AM fragalot: hi
12:44 AM IchGucksLive: morning sunny day
05:01 AM XXCoder: yes, I am alive!
05:10 AM pink_vampire: me too
05:10 AM jthornton: morning
05:22 AM XXCoder: heh been days of no irc. messed up my pc with bad upgrade :P
05:26 AM Tom_L: morning
05:27 AM Tom_L: high of 81 today from snow few days ago
05:28 AM XXCoder: fancy
05:28 AM Tom_L: and am sure i just felt a small tremor
05:46 AM XXCoder: radeon suck :( amd didnt make drivers for more modern os 18.3 linux mint
05:46 AM XXCoder: so im using vesa for now, which is pure software
06:45 AM pink_vampire: i need to get stone
07:32 AM gregcnc_: pink_vampire if strap and impact on the chuck loosened the chuck it wasn't stuck at all.
07:34 AM pink_vampire: the strap wrench was only to add some friction so the hammer in the impact will work.
07:34 AM Beachbumpete1: morning linuxCNC :)
07:35 AM pink_vampire: hi Beachbumpete1
07:35 AM CaptHindsight: I'd rather be making doughnuts
07:35 AM gregcnc_: chuck has much more inertia than the spindle, impact did little
07:35 AM gregcnc_: i'd rather be eating them?
07:36 AM Beachbumpete1_: Hey Pink
07:36 AM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: same here, frost earlier today, maybe 60-ish later
07:36 AM Beachbumpete1_: pretty soon Ill be bitching about how hot it is here hehe
07:37 AM pink_vampire: it was with the most powerful dewalt impact
07:37 AM gregcnc_: physics?
07:38 AM gregcnc_: are you striping the entire headstock?
07:39 AM pink_vampire: it work without any damage and super easy. and before that even long bar not work
07:40 AM pink_vampire: most of it
07:41 AM Beachbumpete1_: any of you guys real familiar with HSK toolholders?
07:41 AM pink_vampire: no
07:41 AM gregcnc_: only what I've seen in catalogs
07:41 AM pink_vampire: i know datron use them
07:42 AM Beachbumpete1_: I am tasked with ordering some new tooling for the CR Onsrud router we are buying and aside from getting ER32 collet holders I am not at all familiar with who makes decent ones for good prices etc..
07:42 AM Beachbumpete1_: the shop that had the machine had ER32 mostly and a few specialized holders
07:43 AM Beachbumpete1_: but apparently there are different kinds of HSK tools
07:43 AM pink_vampire: and i know they get tighter as they spin
07:43 AM gregcnc_: HSK is a taper spec just like BT or CAT
07:43 AM Beachbumpete1_: IE 63F ,40 and others apparently
07:43 AM gregcnc_: look at the Guhring site
07:44 AM Beachbumpete1_: guhring
07:44 AM Beachbumpete1_: I thought they just made tools
07:45 AM Beachbumpete1_: Ah ok
07:45 AM Beachbumpete1_: they have HSK A C and E
07:45 AM pink_vampire: is that for wood or metal?
07:45 AM Beachbumpete1_: both
07:46 AM gregcnc_: http://www.guhring.com/Catalogs/CatalogSelected/52
07:47 AM gregcnc_: pg 198
07:47 AM pink_vampire: what taper do you have on the machine?
07:49 AM Beachbumpete1_: https://i.imgur.com/ZSD0Bkl.jpg
07:49 AM Beachbumpete1_: https://i.imgur.com/XAXRQyr.jpg
07:49 AM Beachbumpete1_: https://i.imgur.com/KM97Qq4.jpg
07:50 AM pink_vampire: hsk 63
07:50 AM Beachbumpete1_: yup
07:50 AM Beachbumpete1_: glad I took those photos when I was in oregon
07:51 AM pink_vampire: it is so funny to see ER on HSK
07:51 AM Beachbumpete1_: why?
07:52 AM CaptHindsight: 2nd image has "CHNIKS"
07:52 AM gregcnc_: because at pinks multi million dollar production facility they use...........
07:53 AM Beachbumpete1_: techniks
07:53 AM Beachbumpete1_: they make lots of holders
07:53 AM gregcnc_: that' probably the cheapest without going for noname china tooling
07:53 AM pink_vampire: ER is not very accurate they develop run out and expend at high speed and HSK is the state of the art of tool holding.
07:54 AM CaptHindsight: ahh was thinking it was some sort of reversed racist copy of a tool holder
07:54 AM Beachbumpete1_: honestly I use the no name china tooling CAT40s on my cincinatti and they are just fine
07:54 AM CaptHindsight: yeah, depends on how lucky you are
07:54 AM CaptHindsight: some are great some are way off
07:55 AM pink_vampire: you need to spin them in the nut and find the "spot"
07:55 AM gregcnc_: for wood?
07:56 AM AlSmt: I have setup a spindle tach on a mill with a back gear to ridged tap, the geartooth sensor is on the pulley so the index gets 10 pulses per revbecause of the gear ratio, just wondering if anyone had any ideas to keep track of the index pulse to always start on the same on?
07:56 AM Beachbumpete1_: I checked a few and tested them mysef and they were pretty damn tight so now I don't bother just use comp where necessary most of the time its not at all
07:56 AM gregcnc_: index by definition is once per rev
07:57 AM AlSmt: in high gear it is but not in low for me that is
07:57 AM pink_vampire: AlSmt: get a decent encoder, and make the spindle a C axis
07:58 AM CaptHindsight: divide by 10 when in Low
07:59 AM pink_vampire: pulse every 36deg...
07:59 AM AlSmt: i do divide but the index is a bit
07:59 AM Beachbumpete1: damn maritool does not make HSK apparently
07:59 AM CaptHindsight: have to divide before that
08:00 AM CaptHindsight: or do something else
08:00 AM Beachbumpete1: I say simple circuit because it was so simple someone else made it for me ;)
08:00 AM AlSmt: it works i just cant start to tap the same hole twice
08:00 AM CaptHindsight: AlSmt: sure, makes sense
08:01 AM CaptHindsight: if you put the speedometer on the crankshaft vs the drive shaft it's the same issue
08:02 AM Beachbumpete1: any of you guys CNC router gurus? what is a good tooling package to get started with? Looking at AMANA tools and Vortex right now..
08:03 AM AlSmt: thats were i put it cant change it easy
08:11 AM gregcnc_: could encoder counter mode be used to keep track of the pulses?
08:13 AM AlSmt: i'll look if it run in quad mode
08:20 AM AlSmt: anyone know what this is used for hm2_5i25.0.encoder.00.input-index
08:27 AM gregcnc_: it sounds like it's not possible https://forum.linuxcnc.org/24-hal-components/33535-dynamic-hal-spindle-encoder-scale
08:28 AM AlSmt: looking
08:34 AM pink_vampire: why are you trying to imitate more lines? just get an encoder like the cui
08:34 AM pink_vampire: it's about 20$
08:35 AM gregcnc_: his encoder is not on the spindle shaft
08:35 AM pink_vampire: so?
08:35 AM gregcnc_: reread
08:35 AM AlSmt: the machine has back gear and no its on the pulley of the speed change belt
08:36 AM pink_vampire: you can use a belt
08:36 AM AlSmt: its a bridgeport style II
08:38 AM pink_vampire: replace the V belt with a timing belt
08:38 AM pink_vampire: OR, make a tapping head
08:39 AM pink_vampire: just a stepper / servo, that spin the spindle only for tapping.
08:39 AM AlSmt: I can live with ridged tapping the way it is just cant re tap a hole the way it is
08:41 AM enleth: AlSmt: the sensor is on the big toothed belt pulley on the intermediate backgear shaft?
08:42 AM pink_vampire: for re-tapping you need tapping head like the tapmatic
08:42 AM Beachbumpete1: so yeah you just cant peck tap I guess
08:43 AM gregcnc_: with rigid tapping it's not needed. the problem is multiple index pulse per rev and the control doesn't keep track of them to restart at the same one
08:44 AM AlSmt: just was hoping I could come up with a easy way to count 10 index pulses and feed that to motion
08:44 AM gregcnc_: right, i couldn't find any examples searching
08:45 AM Beachbumpete1: I just told you how mine works with an index mask
08:46 AM AlSmt: index mask?
08:47 AM Beachbumpete1: yeah we made a simple circuit that masked the index pulse going into the 7i77 card. The machine turns two times but only counts once for each revolution
08:50 AM AlSmt: ya i was hoping to do it with a .comp
08:51 AM cradek: AlSmt: index is handled by hardware, once you're in motion/hal it's too late
08:51 AM cradek: AlSmt: there are mesa firmwares that do index masking in hardware, I use one on my hnc lathe
08:52 AM AlSmt: dumbo firmware on a 5i25
09:00 AM AlSmt: hm2_5i25.0.encoder.00.index-mask can i use this?
09:04 AM AlSmt: doesn't like I can
09:23 AM AlSmt: Thanks guys
09:39 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
09:39 AM IchGucksLive: aircraft down in algir 240death
09:41 AM IchGucksLive: Beachbumpete1, why dont you start with a action trial
09:41 AM IchGucksLive: lots of tools for little money
09:49 AM Beachbumpete1: action trial?
10:00 AM enleth: do you know if vinyl modified alkyd resins bond to acrylic paint properly?
10:00 AM enleth: and the other way around, too
10:04 AM selroc: hello IchGucksLive
10:04 AM IchGucksLive: ;-)
10:06 AM IchGucksLive: till later
10:06 AM selroc: ciao
10:35 AM Rab: Drag engraving has revealed a bit of a resonance problem in my router. :'( https://g-cipher.net/~amatus/raaaab/IMG_20180411_090259.jpg
10:35 AM gregcnc_: wow what is the scale?
10:37 AM Rab: I don't actually know, it was my friend's experiment. But you can see stepping artifacts too, the machine steps at .001".
10:38 AM Rab: So I would guess .005 or worse excursion p-p.
10:39 AM Rab: In other news, drag engraving is pretty awesome (for what it is).
10:40 AM gregcnc_: distance between lines in your image?
10:41 AM Rab: Hard to calculate, it's similar to this: https://g-cipher.net/~amatus/raaaab/IMG_20180404_093250.jpg
10:41 AM Rab: (That was a smaller pattern, with heavier pressure)
10:42 AM gregcnc_: so each line is not programmed
10:42 AM Rab: They are, it's programmatically generated gcode arcs.
10:43 AM Rab: He's trying to make holograms, so there are subtle artifacts in each line which are supposed to interfere at intersections. I do not think the machine is anywhere close to being able to execute that.
10:44 AM gregcnc_: diffraction grating?
10:44 AM Rab: Something like that, I guess.
10:46 AM Rab: We have access to an LPKF PCB mill with much higher resolution, so I've been agitating for him to try that. In the meantime, it definitely illustrates the performance limits of my machine.
11:15 AM gregcnc_: lol what are the odds. I picked up a pair of kennedy boxes last year without keys. Turns out two different keys for boxes I already have match.
11:26 AM CaptHindsight: if you index mask or divide by 10 and he changes gear ratios then he will lose index
11:26 AM CaptHindsight: if he stays in the same gear then it will stay in sync
11:29 AM CaptHindsight: I think he said 10 index pulses per rev in Low and 1 index pulse in High
11:35 AM pcw_home: I think its often better to use a proximity switch on the spindle for index in these cases
11:35 AM CaptHindsight: yeah, he claimed it was too difficult to add some device to his spindle
11:37 AM Tom_L: gregcnc_ i once had a master brand key that fit half dozen boxes
11:38 AM pcw_home: Have you seen bosnian bills hammer tap master lock open?
11:39 AM Tom_L: sounds like a skill
11:39 AM Tom_L: err, how big was the hammer?
11:39 AM gregcnc_: someone posted it the other day
11:40 AM pcw_home: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU9MB5XPsp4
11:40 AM Beachbumpete1: I want to get a drag engraver for my Cinci
11:42 AM Tom_L: pcw_home, makes sense
11:44 AM roycroft: the purpose of a padlock is to encourage honest people to remain honest
11:45 AM roycroft: if you use it for any other purpose you are misusing it
11:45 AM pcw_home: yeah just a reminder
11:47 AM Beachbumpete1: wow thats pretty pathetic lock LOL
11:48 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWErjXO3SYg there were the the rage in the 70's
11:48 AM CaptHindsight: How to Open Locks with a Lockpick Gun
11:51 AM CaptHindsight: electric version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ap4ZgujNpQ
11:52 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:53 AM enleth: there are padlocks that at least require making a lot of noise
11:53 AM enleth: or having a relatively expensive handheld hydraulic cutter
11:53 AM Tom_L: pcw_mesa, is that function something i should get or just ignore
11:53 AM enleth: to keep a dishonest but amateur people away
11:53 AM enleth: *s/people/person/
11:56 AM pcw_home: Tom_L ?
11:57 AM Tom_L: the line you had me comment out
11:57 AM Tom_L: was that a call to that outdated file?
11:57 AM pcw_home: call to a feature that does not exist yet
11:58 AM Tom_L: ahh ok
11:59 AM roycroft: never underestimate the determination of a clueless, incompetent meth head
11:59 AM enleth: gregcnc_: a couple years ago I had to get into a storage closet that was inadvertently closed by the landlord earlier than we agreed to and it was friday evening, so I had to get in there by myself. a friend of mine grabbed a lockpicking set from his backpack and started feeling the padlock with a rake, without a torque wrench, just to get the hang of it, count pins, etc., before he actually starts
11:59 AM enleth: picking it. so we're standing there, talking, and suddently there's a loud clanking sound and he stops talking and looks at his now empty hands and the padlock lying on the floor, open
12:00 PM Rab: At work we have these tough-looking things on our trailers: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002DY7DRY/
12:01 PM gonzo_: locks are a red rag to the enquiring mind
12:01 PM Rab: Somebody posted a lockpicking video here, the author had a related video where he picked one of these in seconds...sad garbage.
12:02 PM gonzo_: most criminals will just go for the bolt croppers
12:02 PM gonzo_: it's only really locksmiths who need to get into somewhere without causing damage to a customerts door, who will piuck locks
12:03 PM Rab: It's great if you don't want the target to catch on that they've been robbed.
12:03 PM Tom_L: i did a cnc program once to cut keys
12:04 PM jthornton: oh well lunch minute is up back to work
12:05 PM gonzo_: that would only be against high value targets. Most criminals are far below that in the food chain
12:05 PM enleth: professional thieves "comissioned" to steal something specific sometimes try to get in cleanly so that their customer gets some time to pawn/ship away the stuff before a search begins
12:06 PM gonzo_: I love the 'professional thief' bit. Always makes me think of the pratchett 'guild of theives'
12:06 PM gloops: hmm cant remember the name of the lock they all get stuck on, it can be done (picked) but few manage it
12:07 PM Rab: Medico?
12:08 PM Rab: (Medeco)
12:08 PM gloops: ive found if they see an expensive lock they just think theres something valuable inside and start wrecking the place to get in, they dont bother with the lock they rip the door off or roof up
12:09 PM gloops: cant remember now, there was a so called expert chatting in one of these channels for a while i read some the links he kept posting
12:10 PM CaptHindsight: DNA tagging using fog triggered upon exit/entrance
12:10 PM CaptHindsight: evidence against the thief if caught
12:11 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXrP3AkiwKg DNA fog
12:11 PM IchGucksLive: By the way MARK the Data Thief dident look very goood today
12:12 PM gonzo_: there was a guy in the UK selling smoke bombs. Triggered once the thief was inside of the building. Aimed to just remove all vision. So police could just sit ousade and lauvh at the swearing and tripping ove going on inside
12:12 PM IchGucksLive: im off Till tomorrow Gn8 from a old man in sunny germany
12:12 PM gonzo_: had a factory size one, that was in a 2gal paint tin
12:14 PM gloops: if you have expensive gear inside, may as well just get good insurance for theft
12:20 PM roycroft: gonzo_: if someone installed one of those in the us, and th e burgler fell and suffered injury, the burgler would be able to successfully sue for the injury
12:22 PM Rab: That's why you shoot them before calling police.
12:24 PM roycroft: that's not legal in many parts of the country
12:25 PM roycroft: and it would be difficult to do if the room is full of smoke anyway
12:26 PM Rab: That's why you need weaponry capable of distributing rounds through the whole area.
12:27 PM roycroft: or maybe realizing that your stuff is replaceable
12:29 PM fragalot: hey.
12:31 PM CaptHindsight: pcw_home: is there hm2 firmware for servo threads (1khz) with 50k-100K jitter?
12:32 PM CaptHindsight: I forget how much the standard firmware can deal with poor jitter
12:34 PM gonzo_: bolt action rifles are about all we have in the uk.
12:34 PM fragalot_ is now known as fragalot
12:34 PM gonzo_: and if you were caught taking it out for anything other than target/hunting, you'd be strung up by your thumbs
12:35 PM Rab: Bolt action is more fun anyway, IMO.
12:35 PM gonzo_: it makes it last longer
12:36 PM pcw_home: CaptHindsight: you can add the DPLL feature to any firmware (its gets the encoder and stepgen sampling jitter down to ~250 ns)
12:37 PM miss0r: fragalot !
12:37 PM fragalot: miss0r!
12:37 PM fragalot: tested the first epoxy mix today
12:37 PM fragalot: decided to walk away;
12:38 PM fragalot: xD
12:38 PM miss0r: :o
12:38 PM miss0r: hehehe
12:38 PM miss0r: so: how do you feel about making a revision of your baseplate? :D
12:39 PM fragalot: don't have my work laptop at hand, but I can back-thingymajigger any field revisions you come up with
12:39 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: what happened?
12:39 PM CaptHindsight: odor?
12:39 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: the mix I tried could use a ibt more epoxy, and I decided to try vacuuming it to get some air pockets out, released the air too quickly because I sneezed at an inopportune moment
12:39 PM miss0r: The baseplate is going to be ~30 mm less wide than the drawing. There was holes in the plate that excluded any other option
12:40 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: how long was the working time?
12:40 PM miss0r: ... 20mm
12:41 PM miss0r: you sneezed and broke it ?! hahahhahaha
12:42 PM miss0r: you sneezed and broke it ?! hahahhahaha
12:42 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: 45mins, but I lost some time when my 1st vibrator disintegrated it's mount, and the 2nd wasn't set up yet
12:42 PM fragalot: the vacuum thing kinda went everywhere inside of the vacuum chamber though :P
12:45 PM Connor: mounting scales on the Knee of my bridgeport.. I've seen 3 ways to do it.. Scale moves with the Knee, The knee moves the head (but the scale slot is facing the front) and Knee moves the head, (but the scale slot is facing to the rear).
12:46 PM enleth: Connor: first and last are probably best as far as chip ingress is concerned
12:46 PM Connor: The easy way is the knee moves the head and the slot facing the front of the mill, but I'm concerned with Chips and stuff being able to make their way into the scale, Thats why people mount the slot away from the front, or mount it so the knee moves the scale..
12:46 PM enleth: Connor: what kind of bridgeport is that?
12:47 PM Connor: enleth: Yea, that's where I was going with that.. I more apt to mount it with knee moving the head, and scale slot facing away.. but.. Geez.. Have to have 3 or so brackets to wrap around the scale..
12:47 PM Connor: enleth: Series I J-Head.
12:47 PM Connor: for DRO, not CNC.
12:50 PM jdh: you should buy my g0704 for the club
12:50 PM Connor: jdh: I just moved mine to the space. :)
12:51 PM jdh: you should buy my g0704 for yourself
12:51 PM Connor: No room. :)
12:51 PM Connor: Maybe you should donate yours to th space.. we might be able to use more than one. :)
12:52 PM fragalot: Connor: do it right the first time, even if it's a lot more work.
12:52 PM jdh: I'll consider that briefly
12:52 PM roycroft: there was a bridgeport on the coast posted on cl yesterday for $400, and the pics indicated it was in good shape
12:52 PM roycroft: that listing lasted about 4 minutes though
12:53 PM Connor: fragalot: Not about the work.. it's about figuring out the best way to do the brackets.. over the top of the scale, under the scale.. how to mount the scale to the column.. etc.
12:53 PM fragalot: Connor: you could ask miss0r, he's been installing DRO's professionally for at least 12 hours.
12:53 PM Connor: I've been putting it off for a while now.. but, it's time I figure it out.
12:57 PM fragalot: Connor: which way allows for easiest alignment when bolting it all on?
12:58 PM Connor: Dunno. I hadn't considered going under the scale till today. and it's been a month or two since I looked at mounting it.. just hoping to get some pointers.. or maybe a good picture of one mounted on e brdigeport similar to mine.
12:58 PM fragalot: iirc robrenz on youtube showed his setup a while ago, and he did an incredible job
01:02 PM fragalot: I can't seem to find it though, I thought it was part of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjh63pll0VM
01:02 PM fragalot: 9:43
01:23 PM gloops: slow news day, ww3 looming etc, same old
01:35 PM Tom_L: fire the first shot get the ball rollin
01:43 PM gloops: only got an air rifle
02:22 PM Joe_Hildreth: ANyone have some time for a few system requirement questions?
02:24 PM gloops: what questions?
02:24 PM Joe_Hildreth: The documentation talks a little bit about requirements to run LCNC, but references Ubuntu 8.04. This makes me feel like it has been a while since it was addressed. Since most new installs of LCNC will be on Debian Wheezy, do the requirements change?
02:25 PM Joe_Hildreth: For example, It cautions against the use of onboard video because of shared memory. BUT, I the machine I use for my CNC router has an onboard video chip.
02:25 PM gloops: disable it
02:25 PM Joe_Hildreth: It seems to work fine, using software stepping and seeing a reasonable jitter rate.
02:26 PM Joe_Hildreth: DIsable the onboard video?
02:26 PM gloops: well thats ok then, if it works it works
02:27 PM pcw_mesa: Thats pretty ancient info, onboard video is usually fine now
02:27 PM gloops: no rtai errors?
02:27 PM Joe_Hildreth: That is what I am getting at, a newer machine with onbaord video seems to work if there is a large enough processor and plenty of RAM.
02:27 PM Joe_Hildreth: No, errors.
02:28 PM Joe_Hildreth: The reason I ask is I am preparing my next CNC for the Home Hobbyist video and I want to talk about requirements to run the controller software.
02:28 PM pcw_mesa: a lot of newer systems wont even have the option of external video cards
02:29 PM gloops: pcw_mesa or parallel port
02:29 PM gloops: most people using parport are using old PCs
02:29 PM Joe_Hildreth: I think that once LCNC is installed, then a good workout of the machine using something like Unigine Heaven while running the latency test would be a good indicator if the machine would be acceptable to use.
02:29 PM Joe_Hildreth: I use PP
02:30 PM Joe_Hildreth: What I want to avoid is giving bad information.
02:30 PM gloops: heres a list of machines with latency http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Latency-Test
02:31 PM pcw_mesa: a lot of newer mini-itx MBs have a parallel port and you can always add a PP if you have a PCI or PCIE slot
02:32 PM pcw_mesa: I have a relatively new ASRock J3355 mini-IX MB that has a DB25 parallel port
02:33 PM Joe_Hildreth: The machine that I plan on using in the video has onboard video, I have tested latency on this machine and it seems acceptable. I guess what i am driving at would it be correct to tell someone, if they have a machine with onboard video ...
02:34 PM Joe_Hildreth: that it could be fine, even though the online documentation states otherwise. Provided that the machine is given a good workout while doing the latency tests.
02:34 PM gloops: if they already have a computer with onboard video id say try it, if it works ok thats fine
02:34 PM Joe_Hildreth: One thing that the docs suggest is to run glxgears. But I think you would get a much tougher test with the Unigen software.
02:35 PM pcw_mesa: I honestly don't think there's an advantage either way now
02:35 PM gloops: if i were buying an old PC id avoid onboard vid
02:36 PM MrSun: For the people using Fusion 360 for cad/cam! https://github.com/tomaswilhelmsson/PostToAxis test it out, an addin to send data directly from Fusion to linuxcnc =)
02:36 PM MrSun: not yet fully completed but i need people to test and report bugs :P
02:36 PM gloops: although you can often disable the onboard video card and install a seperate one, it might not be so easy on debian
02:36 PM Joe_Hildreth: OK, I just don't want to misdirect anyone. I will mention that old pc's with onboard video can be problematic, but newer ones may work.
02:37 PM Joe_Hildreth: I also want to mention the possibility of running LCNC on boards such as Raspberry PI and Beaglebone, but caution them against it because these do not seem to be there as of yet. (stable platform.)
02:39 PM Joe_Hildreth: Who manages the Debian release of LCNC? I always have issues with the PDF software to read documentation on the LCNC machine itself. I end up replacing it with evince to get a proper window.
02:43 PM gloops: you can run linuxcnc on ubuntu/mint, if you know a bit about linux
02:47 PM pcw_mesa: Yeah I have it running here on Debian(Wheezy and Stretch), Mint18, Ubuntu 16.04
02:51 PM gloops: i think someone should do a mint release, its more easy on windows users
02:52 PM pcw_mesa: Certainly has less sharp edges
02:53 PM pcw_mesa: I think like Ubuntu there are some licensing issues
02:53 PM gloops: ahh right
02:54 PM pcw_mesa: probably better to write script that installs LinuxCNC on Mint xx/Ubuntu etc
02:56 PM Tom_L: gloops, jt has directions to put it on a stretch install
02:57 PM gloops: well, im not really bothered about using debian, i dont use the cnc computer for anything else at all
02:58 PM Tom_L: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/jvDN76Pq7Z/
02:58 PM Tom_L: at least you can pick your desktop that way
02:58 PM gloops: would be good though if you could just install ubuntu/mint, find lunuxcnc on the software manager and click to install
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: spring finally arrived here today
02:59 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, yeah same here.. it's blowin thru at ~40mph
02:59 PM gloops: ill save that link thanks Tom_L/jt
02:59 PM CaptHindsight: Joe_Hildreth: the devs don't modify much of Debian for the LCNC ISO
02:59 PM Tom_L: gloops, that's for preempt
03:00 PM CaptHindsight: we use LCNC on Gentoo
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: for RTAI you have to build the RTAI kernel and them compile LCNC for it
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: lots of work for few users
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: well I wonder, have most users gone on to use preempt_rt vs RTAI?
03:04 PM gloops: doubt it
03:08 PM pcw_mesa: If you include OEMs I think most have moved to Preempt-RT
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: pcw_mesa: and with Ethernet vs PCI/e?
03:09 PM Joe_Hildreth: Sorry was away from computer. So these other installs, are they running a realtime kernel or how does it work?
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: Joe_Hildreth: they have to have a real time kernel
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: preempt_rt patch is not that difficult
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: maybe 2 out of 5 bananas in difficulty
03:11 PM pcw_mesa: its pretty trivial with a script
03:11 PM Joe_Hildreth: I have never done that, is there a doc that can get me started?
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: RTAI is a 6 banana
03:12 PM CaptHindsight: pcw_mesa: was saving 1 bananas for "can login and run LCNC" or open a terminal or test editor etc
03:12 PM CaptHindsight: test/text
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: Joe_Hildreth: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/33521-building-linuxcnc-dev-on-ubuntu-16-04-preempt-rt-kernel
03:13 PM pcw_mesa: yeah you may need to figure out what to do with missing dependencies etc so more than 1 banana
03:14 PM gloops: if we all donate $5 are you going to write a script to install on mint
03:14 PM Joe_Hildreth: The preemp_rt patch is a kernal patch, right? so you have to recompile the kernel and make it bootable, then compile LCNC?
03:14 PM pcw_mesa: yes
03:14 PM pcw_mesa: but for some systems there are RT kernel debs
03:15 PM Joe_Hildreth: Thanks for the link. I will have to experiment with this. This may be a great advanced topic to share on the video series.
03:16 PM Joe_Hildreth: ok, is Mint of these? Although I have played with Mint, do they offer a scaled down window manager? Cinnamin seems a bit much for a controller.
03:28 PM Deejay: gn8
03:28 PM fragalot_ is now known as fragalot
03:29 PM BubbleRe- is now known as BubbleRep
03:37 PM fragalot_: what the hell is going on with my irc connection today
03:37 PM fragalot_ is now known as fragalot
03:42 PM Loetmichel: hmmm. just saw a video about james watts "crank avoidance" sun and planet gear system
03:43 PM Loetmichel: does anyone kow if there is a teeth form that meshes so that it CANT pulled out vertically but still can move out sideways, so that one could omit the bar that pulls the two gears "in mesh"?
03:44 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: you mean like a herringbone?
03:44 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: nope, a herringbone can be pulled out vertically
03:45 PM fragalot: ah,.. that vertically.
03:45 PM Loetmichel: sorry, wrong word. a teeth form that cant be pulled out RADIALLY but still is able to "unmesh" when the two gears are rotating
03:45 PM fragalot: that'd be something oddly lobed i would iamgine, but I can't think of an industry standard profile that does that
03:46 PM Loetmichel: maybe something formed like those puzzle pice "noses" or such
03:46 PM Loetmichel: i have no idea if that is even possible with newtonian mechanics, but i thought i ask ;)
03:47 PM fragalot: people have come up with weirder things to make on a 3D printer just because they can
03:48 PM fragalot: getting a constant pressure would certainly prove difficult I would imagine
03:48 PM Loetmichel: point is that i am not even sure its possible
03:48 PM Loetmichel: so maybe they can not ;)
03:48 PM Loetmichel: because it still has to pull out on an angle
03:48 PM gloops: not possible
03:49 PM fragalot: not possible, or not worth the hassle of making?
03:49 PM Loetmichel: gloops: are you guessing or do you have proof?
03:50 PM gloops: gut feeling
03:50 PM Loetmichel: i dont know. thinks like ER11 collets work pretty similar
03:51 PM Loetmichel: its not possible to pull them out of the nut vertically, you have to tilt them sightly to get them out
03:51 PM Loetmichel: i was thinking down that alley
03:51 PM Vq_ is now known as Vq
03:51 PM fragalot: that's because you deform them and use leverage to get them out
03:51 PM fragalot: neither of which are things you would want in a gear
03:52 PM gregcnc_: I have some rigid collets that fit nuts
03:53 PM gregcnc_: what is the application of this gear that would be both engaged and disengaged at the same time?
03:53 PM fragalot: in that case all you need in the gear would be S shaped teeth
03:53 PM fragalot: and it will interlock as long as there is sufficient meshing pressure
03:53 PM fragalot: however impractical :P
03:54 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: actually not
03:55 PM Loetmichel: you CAN get an er11 collet out with a broken shaft still in it, as long as you are able to tilt it
03:55 PM Loetmichel: been there done that
03:55 PM Loetmichel: no deformation neccessary
03:55 PM fragalot: perhaps I should buy better quality nuts
03:55 PM fragalot: :D
03:55 PM Loetmichel: gregcnc_: [22:41] <Loetmichel> hmmm. just saw a video about james watts "crank avoidance" sun and planet gear system
03:55 PM Loetmichel: [22:42] <Loetmichel> does anyone kow if there is a teeth form that meshes so that it CANT pulled out vertically but still can move out sideways, so that one could omit the bar that pulls the two gears "in mesh"?
03:57 PM gregcnc_: no idea what that means
03:57 PM Rab: I was wrestling with an ER11 collet last night. I hate that system.
03:57 PM fragalot: gregcnc_: he wants 2 gears to grab a hold of each-other radially, but let go axially
03:57 PM Rab: I'm about to buy a bunch of extra collet nuts, so each collet size can live in its own nut.
03:58 PM Loetmichel: https://youtu.be/4bXjAyfDfm0?t=124
03:59 PM fragalot: oh that thing
03:59 PM fragalot: that was only invented to work around the crank patent
03:59 PM Loetmichel: that grey bar there that connects the two gears and prevents them from unmeshing. i thought it MAY be possible to make gears that "cling" to each other but still are able to orbit
03:59 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: thats exactly what i said earlier ;)
04:00 PM fragalot: it was a horrible thing to begin with :P
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: look at how awful those 3d printed gears are acting
04:01 PM gregcnc_: so gears that don't need shafts?
04:02 PM gloops: i think we're drifting into the realms of fantasy
04:02 PM Rab: I believe I've seen gears with a meshing "bulb" profile, but for pumping applications rather than power transmission.
04:02 PM CaptHindsight: or doing away with all the gears
04:03 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: what you need are 2 velcro wheels
04:03 PM fragalot: :P
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: planetary hook and loop mechanism
04:04 PM Loetmichel: there are other ways to get around the crank
04:04 PM Rab: But maybe the ones I'm thinking of are not actually bulbous enough to retain, e.g. this: https://khkgears.net/wp-content/uploads/Continuous-contact-type-gear-pump.jpg
04:05 PM gloops: how is drive applied to these gears?
04:05 PM Loetmichel: horizuntal slot in the piston rod and pin in a disk on the "crankshaft" for example
04:05 PM Loetmichel: but it was just a thought experiment if such a gearset would be possible at all!
04:05 PM gregcnc_: scotch yoke?
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: so what are we all going to do when automation starts to come for jobs?
04:06 PM Loetmichel: gregcnc_: yes
04:06 PM gregcnc_: probably much the same as this
04:06 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: be on the right side of it?
04:06 PM gregcnc_: but .gov will have to fund it, or maybe the rothchilds
04:07 PM gloops: CaptHindsight read literature, philosophise, create art, make love, drink tea etc
04:08 PM gloops: Marx said the worker is alienated in the world of work, he is only himself when not in the world of work
04:09 PM gloops: - and weekends dont count
04:09 PM CaptHindsight: Groucho said that?
04:09 PM gloops: he has a point
04:09 PM gregcnc_: exactly what goes on in inner cities and other places where they don't worry about things like work
04:10 PM gloops: gregcnc like nail painting parties
04:10 PM ziper: abolish work
04:11 PM gloops: the more commodities man makes the more he makes himself a commodity
04:14 PM CaptHindsight: a few years ago when some of the Chinese manufacturers said they were going to install >100k robots...
04:14 PM gloops: The worker becomes all the poorer the more wealth he produces, the more his production increases in power and size. The worker becomes an ever cheaper commodity the more commodities he creates. The devaluation of the world of men is in direct proportion to the increasing value of the world of things. Labor produces not only commodities; it produces itself and the worker as a commodity
04:15 PM CaptHindsight: the bots ended up being cheap delta bots made in China
04:15 PM CaptHindsight: not sure where the US automation is going to come from
04:15 PM gloops: its creeping up in all sectors
04:15 PM ziper: gloops, i'm on a 24/7 slowdown strike
04:15 PM gloops: driverless for one
04:16 PM gloops: supermarkets - have you noticed?
04:16 PM ziper: falling rate of profit?
04:16 PM gloops: ziper you must be slowing down very slowly lol
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: driverless won't happen until the courts agree to place all liability on the passengers
04:16 PM gloops: no staffed checkouts
04:16 PM * roycroft refuses to use self-checkouts
04:17 PM ziper: hey, easier to shoplift from
04:17 PM * roycroft also refuses to talk to automated attenents on the phone
04:17 PM roycroft: ziper: shrink does increase in stores that hae self-checkouts
04:17 PM gloops: construction
04:17 PM CaptHindsight: self checkouts always require a supervisor for me
04:17 PM roycroft: and the cost of the shrink does not offset the labor savings in not having as many staff
04:17 PM Loetmichel: ziper: which makes the goods more expensive for the honest customers.
04:17 PM CaptHindsight: some age thing or price missing
04:18 PM roycroft: however, further labor savings are realised because the fear of job losses due to automation helps keep wages down
04:18 PM CaptHindsight: plus they treat you like a criminal
04:18 PM ziper: Loetmichel, you see, the solution is the eliminate the paying customers
04:18 PM ziper: I got carded for a bottle of degreaser the other day
04:18 PM CaptHindsight: I did for an energy drink
04:19 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: you are right but i think that a job that can be easily automated isnt really healthy to do for years anyway
04:19 PM roycroft: what's really funny is people who claim that they like self-checkouts because they're faster
04:19 PM Loetmichel: so i would see to it to get one that isnt anyways
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: usually slower
04:19 PM Loetmichel: ziper: carded?
04:19 PM roycroft: it's not faster for an average moron to self-check than to have an experienced cashier do it
04:19 PM Loetmichel: as in ID-card?
04:19 PM roycroft: it's only faster now because the queues are shorter
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: yes
04:20 PM roycroft: if the markets went to all self-check it would take everyone longer to check out
04:20 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: not neccessarily
04:20 PM gloops: self checkout will improve though
04:20 PM roycroft: will it?
04:20 PM Loetmichel: we have a few markets here with self-checkout lines.
04:20 PM roycroft: it's been around for a couple decades now
04:20 PM gloops: everything does
04:20 PM ziper: I worked bagging groceries a few times, it is really a horrible job
04:20 PM roycroft: the trend around here is to eliminate the self-check stations, not add more
04:21 PM roycroft: two major chains have removed them
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: they are slow since every item has to pas through all the sensors and belts before you can scan the next item
04:21 PM Loetmichel: if they convert all their cashier lines to self checkout they will have (as an example) 20 lines 100% of the time online
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: and you can't fling them through the sensors either
04:21 PM roycroft: and if you buy restricted items such as alcohol or tobacco or antihistamines you have to wait for someone to come over and ok it before you can move on to the next item
04:21 PM gloops: probably be scanned when you put it in the trolley
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: they have to move on their own at a snails pace
04:22 PM Loetmichel: as opposed to 2 lines open on "low business hours" and maybe 10 oon high buisiness hours
04:22 PM Loetmichel: i have NEVER seen all 20 lines with a cashier in them
04:22 PM roycroft: amazon are trying check-as-you-shop in their whole foods stores
04:22 PM roycroft: that's not going over well at all
04:22 PM roycroft: nobody in their right mind would participate in that
04:22 PM Loetmichel: so it WILL be faster even if the single customer takes longer
04:22 PM CaptHindsight: amazon has cheack as you shop and let the delivery guys in service
04:23 PM roycroft: there still has to be staff for them, loetmichel
04:23 PM roycroft: just not as much staff
04:23 PM CaptHindsight: when you are not home
04:23 PM roycroft: in slow times they will close some of the self-check lanes
04:23 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: by now there are about 1 staff member for 4 selfcheckout lines
04:23 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, which self-checkouts are these? The ones here just have a stationary scanner, you wave the item past as fast and accurately as you are able.
04:23 PM Loetmichel: and thats only because they are new
04:23 PM roycroft: it's not in a market's interest to move people through the queue quickly
04:23 PM CaptHindsight: next will be pre-checking, you get charged for thinking about what to buy
04:23 PM gloops: the whole place will be self aware, you wont have to tell it what youve got, it will know
04:24 PM roycroft: they intentionally slow things down to encourage impulse purchases at the checkstand
04:24 PM Loetmichel: once the customers get used to that they may be able to do 1 in 10 or so
04:24 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: that's only one step further from what amazon already does
04:24 PM gloops: it will know your face
04:24 PM fragalot: they already pre-ship things
04:24 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: grocery stores with belts for 10 or more items
04:24 PM fragalot: because they expect people in that region to buy it
04:24 PM fragalot: so why not save those people the hassle of ahving to enter an order at all?
04:24 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, interesting, I've never seen that.
04:24 PM fragalot: the only thing in the way is the law at the moment
04:24 PM Rab: Sounds worse than the fixed kind.
04:25 PM gloops: everywhere will know your face, and eyes
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: wallymart has the hand held scanners but it has to weigh the item on the shelf with the bags before you can scan the next item
04:25 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: PLEASE REMOVE UnKNOWN ITEM
04:25 PM fragalot: there is no item
04:25 PM fragalot: PLEASE REMOVE ITEM
04:25 PM roycroft: that's nothing new, gloops
04:25 PM fragalot: what item???
04:25 PM roycroft: cheers has been that way for decades
04:25 PM fragalot: PLEASE HOLD FOR ASSISTANCE
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: so you scan item 1, then place it on the scale, then after it is happy you can scan item 2, etc etc
04:25 PM Rab: PLEASE PLACE THE ITEM IN THE BAGGING AREA
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: oh yeah my favorite
04:26 PM * roycroft has never once used a self-check station, and never will
04:26 PM fragalot: I use them all the time, no big issues
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: the more you go and cause a delay the more they see how they don't work
04:26 PM roycroft: it elminates jobs and it is dehumanising
04:26 PM Rab: High comedy when you have a small bag of bulk spice, or some other featherweight item that doesn't register on the scale.
04:27 PM fragalot: what is dehumanizing here is the waiting line for that one till that /is/ open with 500 people queueing up, or the 4 self checkouts that are wide open because everyone else has too many items for 'm
04:27 PM CaptHindsight: scan items as fast as you can and then tell the supervisor that it scans too slowly and why does it assume that I am a criminal?
04:28 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: guilty until proven innocent.. And even then.
04:28 PM roycroft: again, that is not a valid reason to use the self-check stations
04:28 PM gloops: the other thing is, we will lose a social and dare i say it, a socio-sexual element of life - the supermarket engagements
04:29 PM roycroft: it's a temporary anomoly caused by the corporations trying to condition people to use the self-checks
04:29 PM CaptHindsight: wallymart requires and ID for any liquor and records your birth date
04:29 PM gloops: there will be no need to speak at all in a supermarket
04:29 PM fragalot: roycroft: I like convenience. if that means I get to do something simple myself & get out the door faster, i'm OK with that
04:29 PM fragalot: hell, i'm even OK with a computer filling out my tax forms
04:29 PM roycroft: should they succeed in eliminating traditional staffed checkstands they will cause the same bottlenecks at the self-check stations
04:29 PM fragalot: and another computer processing those, and giving me my tax returns faster
04:30 PM Rab: gloops, eliminating the opportunity to hit on cashiers might arguably reduce suffering in the world.
04:30 PM roycroft: i like living in a society where people interact with other people in person
04:30 PM CaptHindsight: why even have self reporting, just take out the tax and you just do what you are told?
04:30 PM gloops: which is another old observation - the more human like machines become, the more machine like humans become
04:30 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: all taxes are taken beforehand here, the tax forms are to claim stuff back
04:31 PM CaptHindsight: just eliminate that step
04:31 PM roycroft: i do not like machines in which their makers aspire to embed human characteristics
04:31 PM CaptHindsight: what's gone is gone
04:31 PM roycroft: i like a clear line of delineation between humans and machines
04:31 PM gloops: Rab nah the cashiers love it throughout a 10 hour shift, any that deny it are just playing hard to get
04:32 PM roycroft: i could be ok with a roomba spinning around vacuuming my floors
04:32 PM Rab: gloops revealed as the terror of his local market.
04:32 PM roycroft: it might even be entertaining to watch how my cats interact withit
04:32 PM gloops: i wonder how many times the human brain can take someone walking up to the counter and commenting on the weather
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: what is the longest time you have waited at a staffed checkout for the person ahead of you (after they have paid) to get out of the way?
04:32 PM roycroft: but i sure don't want rosie the robot putting on an apron and cleaning my house
04:32 PM gregcnc_: http://www.franklinrobotics.com/#tertill
04:33 PM roycroft: a few seconds, capthindsight?
04:33 PM fragalot: interesting wheel placement
04:33 PM roycroft: what's the big hurry anyway?
04:33 PM roycroft: being in a hurry is stressful
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: a few minutes around here is common
04:34 PM roycroft: i seriously doubt that
04:34 PM CaptHindsight: heh
04:34 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: you don't wait, cashier immediately blanks them and scans the next person's stuff, often mixing it in with what the other person is still putting away
04:34 PM gloops: trolley rage is pretty common
04:34 PM CaptHindsight: it's extra stupid around here
04:34 PM roycroft: who takes "minutes" to leave the store after the transaction is complete?
04:34 PM roycroft: how can people take that long?
04:34 PM roycroft: what do they do?
04:34 PM gregcnc_: i tell my wife that those retired people taking their time have the rest of their life to get where or do whatever they are doing. everyone else has something to do
04:34 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: yeah haha
04:34 PM roycroft: clip their toenails?
04:35 PM roycroft: it may seem like minutes
04:35 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: deal with kids, reshuffle items in bags, count change etc
04:35 PM fragalot: abolish cash
04:35 PM fragalot: problem solved
04:35 PM roycroft: all that adds up to maybe a minute
04:35 PM fragalot: disease spreads less
04:35 PM fragalot: less recycling
04:35 PM roycroft: eliminate that problem and create other problems
04:36 PM gloops: not like the old days, the old time shopkeeper was a skilled conversationalist
04:36 PM fragalot: what I want
04:36 PM fragalot: is a web-store, where I can put items I want in my cart
04:36 PM fragalot: then a truck shows up with all of those items
04:36 PM fragalot: I pick out the one I want to keep
04:36 PM gloops: when they used to weigh your stuff out
04:36 PM fragalot: and the rest goes back to their inventory
04:37 PM CaptHindsight: I want seats like in Idiocracy with food dispenser and toilet built right in
04:37 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: but do you want it with a squatting leg support, or a leaning leg support
04:39 PM gloops: up to a couple of years ago there was a horticultural store near here that still did it the old way, really, the old way, the bloke on the counter was easily late 70s, it was quite unnerving
04:39 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: not to forget the software upgrade for increased pulsating suction on the urine part ;)
04:39 PM CaptHindsight: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8a/15/0f/8a150f6f20f33fdec4f1714c3c880358.jpg
04:39 PM gloops: he talked to you like he'd known you all his life, some quite personal convos
04:39 PM gloops: very strange these days that experience
04:40 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: why not just have things delivered right to your home, you don't even pick it out, it just shows up and your money is already taken
04:40 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: because I like to physically hold it before I decide which one I want
04:41 PM fragalot: you can't gauge ergonomics based on pictures
04:41 PM Loetmichel: gloops: last time i was in a shop with that kind of experience was about 3 decades ago. that kind of shop is called "tante emma laden" here in germany, and its dying out with their owners. the younger generations dont have the stamina to work 16 hours a day in the shop for a very meager income.
04:41 PM dioz: yo. with regarda to an ellipse... is it accurate to say the major axis is horizontal and the minor axis is vertical?
04:41 PM dioz: regards
04:42 PM gloops: true yes Loetmichel, its all but gone here now
04:42 PM dioz: in what situation would the minor axis be horizontal?
04:43 PM dioz: Loetmichel: the skilled labour has one more boom.
04:44 PM Loetmichel: gloops: to be honest i am sad that they are disappearing
04:44 PM dioz: it's going to be moving us from 60-80 year ild infrastructure to decentralized infrastructure
04:44 PM dioz: old
04:44 PM Loetmichel: i liked the experince and would be willing to pay a good chunk more to have little stores locally that serve my needs
04:44 PM Loetmichel: than to order online
04:45 PM CaptHindsight: lots of things I used to be able to get locally are now only online
04:45 PM Loetmichel: but the PC-shop in the neighborhood here i frequently visit if i need something quick ALWAYS says "i have to order that"... so he is out of the picture. i can do that myself
04:45 PM Loetmichel: for example
04:46 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: same here for quite some time
04:46 PM CaptHindsight: we have a few computer stores left that sell parts
04:46 PM CaptHindsight: Micro Center and Frys
04:47 PM CaptHindsight: only in a few big cities
04:47 PM Loetmichel: nope, it isnt a chain
04:47 PM Loetmichel: it was an electronics store 10 years ago
04:47 PM CaptHindsight: even Radio Shack is gone
04:47 PM Loetmichel: now its just a pc store with a lousy assortment
04:48 PM CaptHindsight: Best Buy has lots of Apple, laptops and a few components
04:48 PM CaptHindsight: I think they exist on phone sales
04:49 PM gloops: it catches me out because ive become very anti salesman, the old time guys with their questions were actually trying to find the product you wanted, not find out how much you had to spend and milk every penny from you before you left
04:49 PM gloops: they knew there was always another day for that heh
04:49 PM CaptHindsight: it's funny to stand and listen at a Best Buy
04:50 PM CaptHindsight: what will you be using the computer for?
04:50 PM CaptHindsight: oh emails and documents, maybe a movie every now and then
04:51 PM CaptHindsight: oh then you need to look at these (starting at the expensive end)
04:51 PM CaptHindsight: I like to say "real time machine controller with Linux"
04:52 PM CaptHindsight: what the latency jitter like on that puppy?
04:52 PM gloops: theyre trained predators
04:53 PM CaptHindsight: cars sales are as bad or worse
04:54 PM CaptHindsight: tell you what to think
04:54 PM CaptHindsight: so I usually just start out with "please tell me what to think"
04:56 PM gregcnc_: is best buy like that these days? when i was there 20 years ago you just hung around and answered questions
04:57 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc_: yeah they don't leave you alone
04:58 PM CaptHindsight: sometimes we just start counting the time we are approached and tell them no but thanks for asking for the 5th time in 4 minutes
04:59 PM gregcnc_: the thing back then was selling warranties
05:00 PM CaptHindsight: was still that way last year
05:01 PM CaptHindsight: but only good for one return under warranty
05:04 PM gloops: you see people go into a kind fo daze when someone fires the questions at them, they answer like mindless automons
05:05 PM gloops: how many say 'hold on, what is this? i came to buy something whats all these questions?'
05:13 PM gloops: hmm, UK subs have moved within missile range of syria as PM calls cabinet meeting
05:14 PM gloops: the wolf pack is assembling round assad
05:14 PM CaptHindsight: "I'm a hardware engineer and I'm just checking street prices" tends to stop them pretty quickly
05:14 PM CaptHindsight: and often they start asking questions about hardware
05:16 PM CaptHindsight: I heard that they were going to get some new missiles delivered :)
05:19 PM gloops: Putin will have deployed S-400 air defence, if he hits missiles that wouldnt be bad, if he takes an allied plane down...shtf
06:13 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:13 PM Tom_L: so shopping trends end up with missle launches is what i got from the last 2k worth
06:56 PM CaptHindsight: started out as planetary gears
06:57 PM CaptHindsight: then automation replacing people
06:57 PM CaptHindsight: then automated checkouts
06:58 PM gregcnc_: i got a laugh out of this today https://www.instagram.com/p/BhaeDR4Hcl9RTUKB6bO3iMIFzItNqPZVYtwZig0/
06:59 PM CaptHindsight: Sorry, this page isn't available.
06:59 PM Tom_L: it was only worth one laugh
07:00 PM CaptHindsight: have the shop doors wide open and 4ft fan running full blast
07:00 PM Tom_L: nice n warm
07:00 PM Tom_L: it'll change
07:00 PM CaptHindsight: was 70 now back to 55
07:00 PM CaptHindsight: so nice
07:01 PM Tom_L: 80°
07:01 PM CaptHindsight: but still dry, right?
07:01 PM Tom_L: yeah
07:01 PM CaptHindsight: rain on the way here
07:02 PM CaptHindsight: just returned from a walk in the woods, light sprinkle
07:02 PM gregcnc_: which woods?
07:03 PM CaptHindsight: the fenn
07:03 PM CaptHindsight: fen
07:03 PM CaptHindsight: one n
07:03 PM gregcnc_: pyott
07:04 PM CaptHindsight: deer everywhere
07:04 PM CaptHindsight: and not spooked
07:04 PM gregcnc_: we go to the hollows often
07:05 PM CaptHindsight: N of 176
07:05 PM Tom_L: http://kake.images.worldnow.com/images/16257184_G.jpg
07:05 PM Tom_L: real dry
07:05 PM gregcnc_: sternes?
07:05 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
07:06 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: outside your window right now?
07:06 PM gregcnc_: i grew up across the rd north of there, countles miles on the bike in there
07:06 PM Tom_L: no
07:07 PM gregcnc_: the same deer that walk by my parent's house
07:07 PM Tom_L: just pics the news collected
07:07 PM CaptHindsight: ~6 every day for years
07:08 PM CaptHindsight: took a walk through 3 oaks the other day at 6:50pm
07:08 PM CaptHindsight: ranger in a golf cart came by and warned me that it closes at 7:08
07:09 PM CaptHindsight: came back by at 7:05 to be sure I was near the gate :)
07:10 PM CaptHindsight: around here the woods close at sunset :)
07:10 PM gregcnc_: they have more power than cops
07:11 PM gregcnc_: i wonder if kids still call them tree pigs
07:13 PM CaptHindsight: was up at the Glacial Park on Sunday
08:54 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest56734