#linuxcnc Logs
Apr 08 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:16 AM SpeedEvil: https://youtu.be/_rqMT3-Tlls?t=834 - Teardown of tesla induction motor drive unit, gearbox and inverter
12:29 AM enleth: pink_vampire: got it figured out
12:30 AM pink_vampire: how??
12:32 AM enleth: https://hackerspace.pl/~enleth/schematic.jpg
12:32 AM enleth: removed useless crap, colored terminals
12:33 AM enleth: left/right switches are mutually exclusive
12:34 AM enleth: connections above are for switch pressed in, connections below for switch open
12:34 AM pink_vampire: so the blue and the light blue on the L are NC?
12:34 AM enleth: the big one, slow/fast select, alternates between the two connection options above it
12:35 AM enleth: no
12:35 AM enleth: https://hackerspace.pl/~enleth/l_slow.jpg
12:35 AM enleth: this is left and slow
12:36 AM enleth: so the pins are bridged in horizontal pairs on both configurations marked "L" and on the one marked "SLOW"
12:36 AM pink_vampire: so it is like 2 motors in one?
12:36 AM enleth: pretty much, yes
12:36 AM pink_vampire: WOW!!
12:36 AM enleth: the first two sets of contacts swap "polarity" of the whole thing
12:36 AM enleth: the big switch either connects U2,W2 or U4,W4
12:37 AM pink_vampire: you ARE above AMAZING!
12:37 AM enleth: unless I'm completely off the mark and mistaken about how to read this shit
12:37 AM enleth: but I'm pretty sure I'm not
12:38 AM enleth: I'd check this with archivist or andypugh or whoever here has seen a lot of crappy oldschool schematics in their life
12:38 AM enleth: just to be sure you're not going to burn down your lathe, your house, etc.
12:39 AM enleth: generally, when faced with a shitty schematic, fire up photoshop, gimp, krita or even damn paint
12:39 AM enleth: clean it up, remove irrelevant wiring, then start coloring circuits
12:40 AM enleth: then create a layer and trace one input signal through the whole thing
12:40 AM pink_vampire: you did it soo professional!
12:40 AM enleth: repeat for other signals for a given position of all the switches, see if the result makes sense
12:41 AM enleth: then create a truth table like a civilized, literate, cultured human being should
12:41 AM pink_vampire: I don't know what to say, i'm just amazed by the work you did untangled this spaghetti
12:42 AM enleth: definitely do ask someone else to look at it and make sure what I deduced is correct
12:42 AM SpeedEvil: Knowing roughly what's there helps a _lot_.
12:42 AM SpeedEvil: And getting your head into the right space.
12:43 AM enleth: it probably helped that is is by far not the oldest and most fucked up motor wiring diagram I've attempted to understand
12:45 AM enleth: the 1920s Carl Zeiss planetarium with a DC-excited, AC-run reversible adjustable speed universal motor takes the cake
12:45 AM enleth: takes it, eats it whole, regurgitates it and smears it all over the ceiling while cackling madly
12:45 AM pink_vampire: so if it's like 2 single phase motors in one, i just need to connect the V2,4 and W4 to live, and the U4 and Z2,4 to neutral for sec and see if i get something?
12:46 AM pink_vampire: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/13/a7/b7/13a7b7ca609635e375da38a9e78c1ed7.jpg
12:46 AM pink_vampire: WTF!
12:46 AM pink_vampire: this is look CRAZY@!
12:47 AM enleth: pink_vampire: the one I was working on was quite a bit smaller, but similar
12:47 AM enleth: pink_vampire: yes, connect it like you described and see what happens
12:48 AM enleth: for high speed (i think), connect U2,W2 instead of U4,W4
12:48 AM pink_vampire: i like to bring new life to old equipment
12:49 AM pink_vampire: and for reverse?
12:50 AM pink_vampire: i'm starting to assamble the motor back (it was pile of gunk and chips when i got it)
12:50 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
12:50 AM enleth: for reverse, swap around U4 with W4, and V2,4 with Z2,4
12:50 AM IchGucksLive: getting the first summerday here in germany
12:50 AM enleth: (or U2 with W2, if using the other speed)
12:51 AM enleth: pink_vampire: oh, and obviously, if you don't like coloring stuff on a computer, print a bunch of copies of a schematic and grab colored pencils or markers
12:51 AM enleth: works too
12:52 AM pink_vampire: V2,4 and W4 to live, and the U4 and Z2,4 to neutral - this slow forward
12:52 AM enleth: should be
12:52 AM pink_vampire: the slow reverse i didn't got.
12:53 AM enleth: what
12:53 AM enleth: swap V with Z, swap U with W
12:54 AM enleth: (if you swap just one pair, there'll be the same voltage on both ends of each winding, resulting in no current flowing and no movement, obviously)
12:54 AM pink_vampire: the slow reverse is 3 coils?
12:54 AM enleth: no
12:55 AM pink_vampire: i don't get it
12:55 AM enleth: V2,4 and W4 to neutral, Z2,4 and U4 to live
12:55 AM enleth: I think
12:56 AM enleth: actually, sec, I'll trace it on the schematic
12:57 AM pink_vampire: I'm trying to find something to act as a current limiter
12:57 AM enleth: ok, I was wrong, wait a little more
12:57 AM enleth: I mean, wrong about the reverse
12:57 AM enleth: which makes sense
01:00 AM enleth: yup, dumb mistake
01:01 AM pink_vampire: old spaghetti diagram
01:01 AM enleth: slow forward: V and W4 to live, Z and U4 to neutral
01:02 AM enleth: slow reverse: V and Z to live, W4 and U4 to neutral
01:02 AM enleth: fast forward: V and W2 to live, Z and U2 to neutral
01:02 AM IchGucksLive: pink_vampire, why dident yoiu get a 1Kw engine in
01:02 AM enleth: fast reverse: V and Z to live, W2 and U2 to neutral
01:02 AM enleth: pink_vampire: ^
01:03 AM enleth: I might have gotten fast/slow the wrong way around, you'll obviously see that
01:03 AM enleth: and of course what is actually forward and what is reverse, depends on the lathe's drivetrain
01:03 AM pink_vampire: yeah I'm sure!
01:04 AM enleth: did I say I hate single phase motor control systems?
01:04 AM IchGucksLive: enleth, even harder to get a speed control
01:05 AM pink_vampire: the big problem is the motor cage is identical on each ends, and I'm not sure what is the correct orientation for it
01:05 AM IchGucksLive: enleth, but it has the force at all speeds
01:05 AM enleth: pink_vampire: probably shouldn't matter
01:06 AM IchGucksLive: pink_vampire, it des not matter you can build it eighter way
01:06 AM enleth: if it really is mechanically identical and the armature isn't shifted towards one end or the other, it will work either way
01:06 AM pink_vampire: ok
01:07 AM pink_vampire: i'm trying to assemble it (SOO heavy!!!)
01:09 AM IchGucksLive: a hardmetall lady like you will get it
01:09 AM IchGucksLive: im off first guests arrive for todays forest tour
01:09 AM pink_vampire: lol
01:10 AM IchGucksLive: e-bikes fully charged getting a nice ride
01:10 AM pink_vampire: i can't push it to be close
01:13 AM enleth: make sure the windings haven't caught on something
01:13 AM enleth: there are probably screws that hold it together parallel to the rotor
01:13 AM enleth: use longer screws temporarily to bring the parts together and force them to close
01:14 AM enleth: just really make sure you're not crushing the windings or the wires
01:14 AM pink_vampire: it's just very hard to wiggle it
01:15 AM pink_vampire: I did IT!!!
01:18 AM pink_vampire: I re test the wire with the multimeter just to make sure it is not short or something
01:19 AM pink_vampire: do i need the capacitor for the test?
01:19 AM pink_vampire: enleth: ^
01:19 AM enleth: absolutely
01:19 AM enleth: and make sure it's on Z
01:20 AM pink_vampire: if the capacitor is defective?
01:20 AM enleth: the capacitor is what makes the second winding out of phase, without it the motor will just make angry buzzing noises
01:21 AM pink_vampire: is there a way to test the capacitor?
01:21 AM enleth: a capacitance meter, I guess
01:22 AM pink_vampire: I have regulate multimeter
01:23 AM enleth: do you have a known good capacitor with the same stated capacitance and same or higher voltage?
01:27 AM enleth: hint: you can borrow one from a different single-phase motor of a similar power rating
01:27 AM pink_vampire: no
01:27 AM pink_vampire: all of my other motors are DC or stepper
01:27 AM enleth: see if the capacitor measures anything on resistance setting
01:27 AM enleth: it probably shouldn't
01:27 AM miss0r: Mornin
01:30 AM miss0r: Hmm.. I'm having a hard time finding one of those CD covers that fit into a document binder.. you know the kind: soft filt on one side, transparrent plastic on the other. very nice & thin. you used to be able to get those in every supermarket back in the day.. but I guess CD piracy died out? I just want a professional way to attach a digital version of the printed version!
01:31 AM miss0r: And I don't want to attach a thunb drive every time this happens
01:32 AM pink_vampire: you can get a memory card very cheap
01:32 AM miss0r: but is that versatile enough to give to a customer ?
01:32 AM gloops: hand stitch a custom leather sleeve
01:33 AM miss0r: gloops: If I was into making knives, I would :D
01:33 AM miss0r: pink_vampire: I completed the machine I showed you pictures of earlier: https://imgur.com/a/KBhR4
01:33 AM pink_vampire: https://www.ebay.com/itm/50-Paper-CD-DVD-Flap-Sleeves-Case-Cover-Envelopes-5inch/253245122785?epid=4004361592&hash=item3af695e8e1:g:Kb8AAOSwMQBaAD1m
01:34 AM gloops: i dunno, not used CDs for a while, must be some online, or just shop around, PC world maybe
01:34 AM pink_vampire: miss0r: machining ART!!
01:34 AM enleth: miss0r: what the hell does that do
01:35 AM miss0r: pink_vampire: I think that is exaggerating a bit, but I am very pleased with it
01:35 AM miss0r: That machine I installed it on cuts thin silicon wafers. this addition, moves in and catches them just before they are dropped, and retracts them to the operator
01:36 AM pink_vampire: 50 Paper CD DVD Flap Sleeves
01:37 AM miss0r: yeah, but I would realy like the ones with holes that fit into the binder
01:37 AM miss0r: this is what the machine looks like in drawing: https://imgur.com/a/K8zIs
01:37 AM miss0r: without the belt, motor & linear rails
01:38 AM pink_vampire: I'm at the wrong job
01:39 AM miss0r: so was I. I quit my job as an electrician, and started working for myself.
01:40 AM miss0r: Theres still time ;)
01:40 AM pink_vampire: I need to find a less heavy hobby
01:40 AM miss0r: so far I think its the best decision I've ever made.. Only been doing it for little over a month ;)
01:40 AM miss0r: What IS your hobby exactly?
01:42 AM pink_vampire: machining
01:43 AM miss0r: Why would you want to find a less heavy one? :) Can't you just reduce your workpiece sizes? choose a lighter material ;P
01:44 AM pink_vampire: the motor is HEAVY
01:45 AM miss0r: Just got in: what motor?
01:45 AM pink_vampire: enleth did AMAZING job on investigation the wiring for my lathe motor.
01:46 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/zv12M4c.jpg
01:46 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/ZXxKuwT.jpg?1
01:46 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/7ChR31t.jpg?1
01:46 AM pink_vampire: this is what enleth did https://hackerspace.pl/~enleth/schematic.jpg
01:46 AM pink_vampire: https://hackerspace.pl/~enleth/l_slow.jpg
01:47 AM miss0r: That looks correct to me. What is the issue?
01:48 AM pink_vampire: the whole control unit is broken, and the guy that give me the lathe don't know anything about it
01:49 AM miss0r: Can't you just build a new one?
01:50 AM pink_vampire: i can
01:50 AM pink_vampire: but i want to know if the motor is ok..
01:50 AM pink_vampire: so i need to test it
01:50 AM miss0r: Do you have a 'mega' (insulation tester, at 250/500/1000 volts)
01:51 AM pink_vampire: no
01:52 AM miss0r: Well, you realy need to get your hands on one, if you want to make sure the motor is okay
01:52 AM miss0r: something like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VICI-VC60B-Resistor-Instrument-Digital-Insulation-Tester-Megohm-Megger-Tens-S1E4/282556288162?epid=1081840358&hash=item41c9aacca2:g:vUcAAOSwXXxZWyjA
01:53 AM pink_vampire: cool!
01:53 AM pink_vampire: this is for testing the ground?
01:53 AM miss0r: Then you can test the individual windings to ground
01:54 AM miss0r: to make sure the windings are intact
01:54 AM miss0r: you'd only need to do the 250v test on a 115v motor
01:55 AM pink_vampire: i think the capacitor is bad
01:55 AM miss0r: do you have a cap meter?
01:55 AM pink_vampire: no
01:56 AM miss0r: well. I'd just go ahead and replace it. you 'could' do some tests without, but these starter caps are usualy dirt cheap, and will wear out at some point anyway. its always a good start
01:58 AM miss0r: Link this, if you insist on testing it: https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2013/06/how-to-check-capacitor-with-digital.html
01:58 AM pink_vampire: if the capacitor is short (on 110V) what will happen?
01:59 AM miss0r: Depending on the damage inside the cap: it could start to burn, explode / do nothing at all
01:59 AM miss0r: :]
02:00 AM miss0r: okay.. I have a simple test in mind:
02:00 AM miss0r: do you have a scope?
02:00 AM pink_vampire: no
02:00 AM pink_vampire: i wish
02:00 AM miss0r: hmm... 24volt dc lamp & 25v dc power supply?
02:00 AM miss0r: both are 24*
02:02 AM miss0r: or: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEWCASON-LCD-Digital-Meter-XC6013L-Capacitance-Capacitor-Tester-mF-uF-Circu-O9O8/202048452028?epid=1772602527&hash=item2f0b06b5bc:g:o1kAAOSwCL9ZsCA8
02:02 AM pink_vampire: not bad!!
02:03 AM miss0r: I don't know... You can probally get a new cap for 1/10th of that price ;)
02:04 AM pink_vampire: i did a mini din rail panel
02:04 AM pink_vampire: just for testing!
02:04 AM miss0r: ?
02:05 AM pink_vampire: i took a picture
02:08 AM Deejay: moin
02:08 AM miss0r: mornin
02:08 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/AcJgqKx.jpg
02:08 AM miss0r: That is a good idea :)
02:09 AM miss0r: What the hell is that heating element for? The low speed?
02:10 AM pink_vampire: current limiter
02:10 AM miss0r: indeed :]
02:11 AM miss0r: If you realy want to test out the motor, you should get the two instruments I linked you to
02:11 AM pink_vampire: it was a space heater...
02:11 AM pink_vampire: one day...
02:12 AM miss0r: You 'can' also do some measuring with a multimeter
02:12 AM miss0r: We can determin if theres a direct short between the windings, within the windings and from the windings to ground
02:13 AM gloops: why not just try the motor and see what it does?
02:13 AM miss0r: Sure
02:13 AM miss0r: I was just under the impression, that you wanted to test it prior to powering it up ;)
02:14 AM gloops: im not giving any advice on electrics, its just what id do
02:14 AM gloops: unless fitting it would be a big job and i didnt want to go through it without knowing first
02:17 AM gloops: (assuming it is already known to spin)
02:24 AM gloops: well, suppose i need to look at disabling the screensaver on debian, which cant be done, so look at what can be done with the screensaver on debian
02:25 AM gloops: this must be a problem linuxcnc users have had before
02:27 AM holzjunkie: gloops: next mistake pc to high letency 63443ns :-(
02:27 AM gloops: im getting 30000ns i think
02:27 AM gloops: could be 20000#
02:28 AM holzjunkie: its much better
02:28 AM gloops: 33333hz, thats about £1 per 10000hz i paid lol
02:28 AM holzjunkie: i´m not sure if another / more ram and and small ssd will take so much effect
02:29 AM gloops: holzjunkie it isnt always the chip/ram that causes it, you can have a state of the art PC and it gives high jitter
02:29 AM gloops: what RAM have you got?
02:30 AM holzjunkie: gloops: i´ve to take a look
02:31 AM gloops: i might need another pc i dunno, i got an rtai error yesterday, only one in about 2 hours work, so dunno
02:31 AM gloops: i think screesaver jittered it
02:31 AM gloops: but 1 in 2 hours may as well be 1000, the job is over
02:32 AM holzjunkie: gloops: 3gb 2x nanya pc2 5300u 1x samsung pc2 5300u
02:33 AM gloops: thats something else i need to look at, recovering a job, should be possible starting from switched homes
02:34 AM gloops: ive got 4 gig ram in an old dell optiplex, 747 i think
02:35 AM holzjunkie: which kernel?
02:35 AM gloops: debian wheezy - ?
02:36 AM gloops: i know very little about linux, i use it as a windows user lol
02:39 AM holzjunkie: me to but i know the rtai kernel is needs less power
02:41 AM gloops: ill have a look when i fire it up, tbh i just went through the linuxcnc iso install, i didnt choose a kernel, its the only thing on the hard drive
02:49 AM gloops: are you using steppers holzjunkie?
02:57 AM XXCoder: hey pink_vampire just read chat there. interesting
02:57 AM XXCoder: you might want to get a electric lifter, but then apartment lol
02:57 AM XXCoder: lemme see.. finding a examplke
02:58 AM XXCoder: http://www.viennamedical.com/1601-fp-medical/images/RPA-450-400x400%20electric.jpg
02:58 AM XXCoder: if you was able to add rail on ceiling thats strong enough http://ellsenhoist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/electric-shop-hoist.jpg
02:59 AM XXCoder: that ones bit overkill but yeah
03:00 AM pink_vampire: enleth: WORKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
03:07 AM XXCoder: fifd you see links pink?
03:09 AM pink_vampire: the slow forward and reverse work fine
03:09 AM pink_vampire: now i'm testing the fats
03:15 AM pink_vampire: forward fast working
03:15 AM XXCoder: seems to be generally working? congats!
03:18 AM pink_vampire: everything WORK!!!
03:18 AM pink_vampire: enleth: you did it!!!!
03:18 AM XXCoder: woot! pink_vampire congats
03:19 AM pink_vampire: thanks!!!
03:35 AM SpeedEvil: pink_vampire: :)
03:51 AM gloops: slapping mdf work top on, at last it finally feels like im getting some place
03:53 AM XXCoder: working on networking at home
03:53 AM XXCoder: one patch panel done, and one to go
04:05 AM pink_vampire: https://youtu.be/QfF54qfG6oo
04:07 AM XXCoder: looking
04:07 AM XXCoder: dang its almost like there is rule 34 for cnc machines
04:08 AM XXCoder: if theres some tool theres cnc version of it
04:08 AM gloops: wonder how long the bearings will run though
04:08 AM XXCoder: cool nevertheless
04:14 AM SpeedEvil: CNC shapers seem uncommon
04:14 AM SpeedEvil: gloops: several thousand milliseconds.
04:15 AM SpeedEvil: Also CNC english wheels
04:25 AM Wolf__: cnc english wheel would be interesting to watch lol
04:30 AM SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl5_wUVxRvw
04:30 AM SpeedEvil: there was
04:30 AM SpeedEvil: But this is very much unreasonably expensive
04:31 AM XXCoder: dang
04:31 AM XXCoder: that is awesome/.
04:31 AM XXCoder: too bad price is insan
04:32 AM Wolf__: not the way I was thinking it would so lol
04:32 AM Wolf__: so/do
04:50 AM gloops: will metal bodywork be a feature of cars much longer i wonder
04:53 AM gloops: within a few short years youll be able to buy the components to build your own electric car on ebay, like you buy stepper motors and breakout boards now
05:01 AM Wolf__: download car and print it out?
05:02 AM gloops: maybe yeah
05:08 AM JT-Mobile: morngin
05:09 AM JT-Mobile: ves, the connectors
05:09 AM gloops: morning JT-Mobile
05:15 AM JT-Mobile: morning gloops heading home this morning
05:16 AM JT-Mobile: ate too much crawfish yesterday and had a good time visiting with family and old friends
05:17 AM pink_vampire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4pBTI2vnd8 probing, flycutter, cook
05:38 AM XXCoder: hey JT-Mobile guess what
05:38 AM XXCoder: gloops: still usful for making plastic casting
05:38 AM JT-Mobile: morning XXCoder
05:40 AM XXCoder: I finished patch panel wiring!
05:40 AM XXCoder: jeez it took me bunch of hours
05:42 AM XXCoder: jt one of room has actual floor now!
05:42 AM XXCoder: tomorrow we do living room
05:56 AM gloops: so i got a flat table and a squarish (as good as a kitchen door square) gantry
05:57 AM gloops: i was actually only 1mm or so out with my original guess by eye, not bad
05:58 AM gloops: but threw another rtai error, so next thing is sort the stepper config out its a total mess
05:59 AM XXCoder: lots of fun
05:59 AM XXCoder: making patch panel connections, 19 of em is a whole lot of fun also. lol
06:00 AM pink_vampire: what brand of grease is good?
06:00 AM XXCoder: bacon grease ;)
06:00 AM pink_vampire: for the lathe parts
06:01 AM gloops: the old maxim was mineral for mineral, animal for animal, and err...
06:02 AM XXCoder: dunno actually, I have starret way oil for rods and such on 3d printer and cnc router but besides that dunno
06:02 AM pink_vampire: all the carriage is in parts, and i don't want to assemble is dry
06:03 AM Wolf__: way oil and whatever is called for in the gear boxes
06:04 AM gloops: hmm, thicker grease on mating surfaces might help prevent moisture seeping in and corroding etc, although i doubt that would be a great problem
06:04 AM gloops: just grease, no high temps or velocity or anything, copper grease i dunno, id just use whats at hand
06:05 AM pink_vampire: i have motor oil
06:05 AM pink_vampire: and also some gear oil
06:05 AM gloops: this isnt for the ways right? just assembling?
06:05 AM pink_vampire: car gear oil
06:06 AM gloops: i use car oil on my lathe but im not particular lol
06:06 AM JT-Mobile: XXCoder, cool
06:06 AM gloops: many do, there is some argument against using it though, tbh my lathe isnt valuable and i dont care that much
06:07 AM pink_vampire: i want to buy the best grease / oil for it
06:07 AM pink_vampire: and keep using it
06:07 AM XXCoder: jt it is! sadly my tools to crimp cables is in storage so I cant connect my AP as well and can't make any patch panel connecting cables (1-2 feet long cables for patch to switcher_
06:07 AM gloops: you want way oil then
06:07 AM pink_vampire: there is no point to save on that
06:08 AM gloops: i thought you were just greasing mating surfaces on the assembly
06:08 AM JT-Mobile: XXCoder, got a photo of the patch panel?
06:08 AM XXCoder: ya a second
06:08 AM pink_vampire: yeah, but i need to also lube the gear, ans screws
06:10 AM Wolf__: if it has a gear box for power feeds, manual should call out what weight oil goes in it, lathe screws get way oil usually
06:10 AM gloops: gear oil is ok for that
06:10 AM pink_vampire: let me see in the manual
06:11 AM Wolf__: my lathe has a oil filled gear box on the cross slide carriage
06:12 AM pink_vampire: they say SAE 10 motor oil gear the gear box
06:12 AM pink_vampire: what is SAE??
06:12 AM Wolf__: ...
06:12 AM XXCoder: JT-Mobile: https://imgur.com/a/0R8As
06:13 AM XXCoder: a second heh
06:13 AM JT-Mobile: XXCoder, what does that do?
06:14 AM XXCoder: it is endpoint of all ethernet cables in house
06:14 AM JT-Mobile: Society of Automotive Engineers
06:14 AM JT-Mobile: so does a router go next to that?
06:15 AM gloops: you can get really sticky oil like slick 50
06:16 AM gloops: which will make your motor oil stick to the ways, but really it isnt so cheap and you may as well buy the proper oil, enleth got some a few weeks back hes in the states
06:16 AM Wolf__: she 10 is low viscosity
06:16 AM XXCoder: JT-Mobile: https://imgur.com/ncJ1VEE
06:16 AM Wolf__: she/SAE
06:16 AM XXCoder: one thats not as editable lol
06:18 AM pink_vampire: i have 5W-30
06:18 AM Wolf__: way oil http://a.co/1tyOo4U
06:22 AM pink_vampire: Wolf__: also for the gear??
06:22 AM Wolf__: no, get sae 10 for the gear box
06:23 AM pink_vampire: what is SAE??
06:23 AM Wolf__: its what it says on the bottle… SAE 10 motor oil
06:24 AM pink_vampire: i can't find it in auto zone
06:25 AM Wolf__: http://a.co/4lujKlv
06:25 AM Wolf__: something like that
06:25 AM XXCoder: what about https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GFTGXW4/ heh
06:25 AM XXCoder: someone linked that to me while ago
06:26 AM pink_vampire: no.4?
06:26 AM Wolf__: I think Cap got a drum of it lol
06:26 AM XXCoder: asking wolf bec dunno if its working
06:27 AM XXCoder: *workable
06:27 AM JT-Mobile: fixing to head home yea1
06:27 AM Wolf__: I dunno what the diff on the vactra numbers are
06:27 AM XXCoder: me either
06:29 AM pink_vampire: i'm taking a picture of the manual page
06:31 AM JT-Mobile: IIRC the vactra number has something to do with viscosity
06:31 AM JT-Mobile: see everyone back at the ranch
06:32 AM Wolf__: i’m sure it does, but I dont need the info so I’m not looking it up lol
06:32 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/VTCKKTI.jpg
06:33 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/KpBjEZn.jpg
06:34 AM pink_vampire: what is "light machine oil"?
06:36 AM Wolf__: opposite of heavy machine oil
06:36 AM XXCoder: SAE 10 aqnd grease
06:39 AM Wolf__: totally high end machine when they tell you to use light oil on dovetail ways…
06:39 AM pink_vampire: SAE 10 is motor oil, not machine oil
06:39 AM Wolf__: 3&1 or sewing machine oil = light machine oil
06:41 AM pink_vampire: it was made in Austria, and Germany in 1972
06:42 AM andypugh: Any oil is better than no oil.
06:42 AM pink_vampire: i know
06:42 AM andypugh: Where in the world are you?
06:43 AM pink_vampire: NY
06:43 AM XXCoder: pink_vampire: yeah though it does explictly say sae 10 on your manual
06:43 AM andypugh: So there is no point me giving you a link to the supplier I use.
06:43 AM pink_vampire: andypugh: you help me with the keyboard for my g0704
06:45 AM Wolf__: I need to look in to adding one shot oilers to both of my machines
06:46 AM pink_vampire: what is "No. 1 NLGI grade heat-resistant lithium-based"?
06:46 AM Wolf__: just what it says...
06:47 AM pink_vampire: what is the best brand?
06:49 AM andypugh: No1 NLGI is a bit lighter than normal.
06:49 AM andypugh: The vast majority of greases on sale are grade 2
06:49 AM andypugh: I needed grade 3 for my mill spindle and it wasn’t easy to find
06:49 AM andypugh: pink_vampire: https://www.mobil.com/en/industrial/Lubricants/Products/Mobil-Vactra-Oil-Light
06:50 AM miss0r: Ahh the sweet life... I just had to chase down two young men with a crowbar, after they threw three shopping bags full of empty beer & vodka bottles over my fence, not knowing I was there... hehe. I think they were 19 or 20 something. But you should see them crying like little baby boys, when I made them pick everything up, down to the last glass chip.
06:50 AM miss0r: I may or may not have given them the impression that I was going to 'end their sad existance'
06:51 AM Wolf__: lol nice
06:51 AM pink_vampire: OMG LOLL
06:51 AM andypugh: pink_vampire: There are eBay vendors who put oil into smaller bottles in the UK: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162881439469
06:52 AM miss0r: That being said, I'm a 250lb 6'2" dude with a full beard. They might need new underwear :D
06:52 AM miss0r: I bet they'll think twice about recycling next time ;)
06:53 AM pink_vampire: i like the small bottles
06:53 AM miss0r: I like this stuff: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROCOL-Slideway-Lubricant-Spray-400ml/182855344492?epid=1851025302&hash=item2a9307216c:g:lIMAAOSwGPxZ8MIW
06:54 AM miss0r: although, I buy it locally in 10L jugs
06:55 AM andypugh: pink_vampire: https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_category.php?category=2122081962 might be the easiest way to go
06:55 AM andypugh: They certainly have NLGI no1 lithium grease on that page.
06:57 AM pink_vampire: but low temp
06:58 AM pink_vampire: is there a good brand that make grease?
06:59 AM andypugh: I wouldn’t worry about it too much.Any NLGI grease should be pretty much identical.
07:00 AM pink_vampire: i don't want it to be stiff after few years
07:02 AM andypugh: I think that only really happened with animal-based greases. And even then I have a pot of 1930s grease that is just about usable.
07:02 AM andypugh: (Actually, I exaggerate, we threw it away 20 years ago, but it was still usable)
07:02 AM pink_vampire: how is "Molykote"?
07:03 AM andypugh: Black
07:03 AM Wolf__: messy
07:03 AM andypugh: Molybdenum is a dry lubricant, and only really any help if you are planning never to relubricate.
07:04 AM andypugh: Ordinary grease will wash out of clothes. I am not sure that Moly does,
07:04 AM pink_vampire: this is the point here
07:04 AM pink_vampire: i took the whole lathe a part
07:04 AM andypugh: You will probably have a different lathe before you need to worry about the lifespan of the grease you put in now.
07:05 AM pink_vampire: and i want to apply lifetime lube to any part that i can
07:09 AM sync: the lifetime has been reached when the part fails
07:10 AM pink_vampire: by lifetime i mean, I don't want to take is a part in half a year because it start drying
07:14 AM sync: andypugh: I wonder how modern lubricants will look in a few decades to come
07:15 AM sync: I suppose with PFPE going bad is pretty much ruled out
07:15 AM pink_vampire: ptfe is for plastic?
07:17 AM sync: the lubricant does not care a lot about what it is put on
07:20 AM andypugh: sync: I would expect the synthetics to be identical to now. And petroleum has proved that it is stable for millions of years by hanging around underground for millions of years..
07:32 AM pink_vampire: i need to get some sleep
07:34 AM andypugh: Too late now, you might as well just carry on.
07:34 AM andypugh: Or is this a vampire thing :-)
07:42 AM Tom_L: https://www.mobil.com/English-US/Industrial/pds/GLXXMobil-Vactra-Oil-Numbered-Series
07:42 AM Tom_L: most folks around here use vactra 2
07:44 AM Tom_L: can't find it in this town in less than 5 gal buckets though
07:44 AM Tom_L: i got half gallon from my bud a while back
10:51 AM fragalot: hey
10:51 AM fragalot: miss0r: do you remember what EG mix you used? I'm having some difficulties :)
10:51 AM miss0r: does 'the wrong one' count as an answer? :)
10:51 AM fragalot: yes
10:51 AM fragalot: :P
10:52 AM fragalot: i've tried dry mixing it for now to figure out the ratios, but with my DIY vibrator, it takes forever for the sand to trickle down, and the 4-8mm stuff doesn't budge
10:53 AM fragalot: with my china-vibrator, the sand appears to want to go around in circles, with the basalt floating on top, or on the bottom depending on when I shut it off
10:53 AM miss0r: too little weight on your vibrator/too slow rpm?
10:53 AM fragalot: rpm is a fixed 1600ish, but I can add more weight
10:53 AM fragalot: the china vibrator one is quite violent
10:53 AM fragalot: if I use my drill powered cement mixer,... well it's a REALLY good separator!
10:54 AM fragalot: within 5 seconds it has fully separated the basalt from the sand :D
10:54 AM miss0r: hehe. Well, that is an issue with different densities
10:54 AM fragalot: the basalt is denser than granite..
10:54 AM miss0r: well then... I don't know why :D
10:55 AM fragalot: and I doubt that bog standard river sand is going to be heavier
10:55 AM fragalot: but it flows better
10:55 AM miss0r: Consider making a small batch, and vibrate that
10:55 AM miss0r: WITH the epoxy mix in it. Everything changes once that is added
10:55 AM miss0r: is what I found anyway
10:55 AM fragalot: I can imagine that, but i figured i'd ask about mix ratios prior to doing that
10:56 AM fragalot: because '10%' epoxy is only half the story :P
10:56 AM fragalot: part of me is considering just going with 80% sand & 20% epoxy, but my wallet disagrees.
10:56 AM miss0r: no granite?
10:57 AM fragalot: other than density & taking up expensive epoxy space, what does the granite/basalt really add?
10:58 AM fragalot: say that I reduce the basalt qty from "max volume" to about half the volume?
10:58 AM fragalot: or 70% of the volume
10:58 AM miss0r: Two things: Granite is massively good at damping vibrations, two: it breaks the epoxy up into smaller divided volumes, and helps it not to crack
10:59 AM miss0r: What are you hoping to gain from this?
11:00 AM fragalot: an easier to mix mixture
11:00 AM fragalot: when using the maximum amount of large stuff it just wants to separate when vibrating
11:01 AM fragalot: unless my sand is just far too dense.. somehow
11:01 AM miss0r: then use less. I can tell you, I ended up using ALOT more epoxy than i calculated to begin with ;)
11:01 AM fragalot: :P
11:02 AM miss0r: I basically had a micture that was too 'thick'. I couldn't make it set properly
11:03 AM fragalot: I doubt it's a density issue.. the basalt has twice the density of the sand i'm using
11:03 AM miss0r: But that being said, I only used 1-3mm epoxy granite
11:03 AM miss0r: (very small cast)
11:03 AM fragalot: perhaps I should just go away from the 8-14mm basalt then
11:04 AM fragalot: and use only various sizes of sand (from 0.2 to 8mm)
11:04 AM miss0r: Those are pretty big ;)
11:05 AM fragalot: alright, use .2mm to 4mm sand then xD
11:06 AM miss0r: I think that might work. But also keep in mind, the larger objects you put in there, the stronger the finished product will be
11:06 AM miss0r: Think of it as interlazing stones, with a small amount of glue in between them
11:06 AM fragalot: yeah..
11:07 AM fragalot: but given the size of the casting,.. I think I'll be OK.
11:08 AM gloops: using aggregates works on the principle that the particles are stronger than the glue
11:08 AM miss0r: Sure. I think your construction is plenty beefy enough for it to be a success without the larger pellets
11:08 AM gloops: if you try smashing concrete with pebbles in it, you notice - the pebbles rarely break, only the cement bonding
11:09 AM fragalot: I'll give a few different batches a test; one with the 'ideal' mix found by having a fully filled tub of basalt, with sand added until full
11:09 AM miss0r: I don't know why I ended on this: hahahahaha https://9gag.com/gag/aQ3XoZz
11:09 AM fragalot: one with less basalt & rest with sizes of sand
11:09 AM fragalot: and one with just the various sizes of sand
11:09 AM miss0r: Indeed. make sure to vibrate them well too
11:10 AM fragalot: figure out how much epoxy for each by adding water to the mixes before doing it again with epoxy
11:10 AM gloops: if you dont want the heavier particles to sink, you need a mix in which the pebbles support themselves to the top of the mold masically
11:10 AM miss0r: good idea
11:10 AM miss0r: gloops: whaa?
11:11 AM gloops: how else you going to avoid it?
11:12 AM fragalot: abom's clapper box restoration video is oddly relaxing
11:28 AM holzjunkie: hy again
11:29 AM holzjunkie: why are HP pc´s bad for linuxcnc?
11:30 AM enleth: pink_vampire: to be honest - you should probably find a local grease and oil vendor, call them, say you've got this machine and there are some lubricants indicated in the manual and you wish to email them a scan of the manual page and ask them to figure out compatible products they offer
11:30 AM enleth: pink_vampire: that's what sales reps are for
11:31 AM gregcnc_: if energy saving bios features can't be turned off this can cause latency issues
11:31 AM enleth: pink_vampire: leave the menial catalog-digging to them
11:32 AM holzjunkie: ok so only energy saving options are the problem
11:32 AM enleth: pink_vampire: even if someone somewhere sells a compatible lubricant slightly cheaper, the amounts you need for one lightly used machine are so low that your time wasted looking for those lubricants is much more valuable
11:33 AM enleth: pink_vampire: I got a several years worth of oil supply for my mill and a friend's new lathe (20l of ISO 68 gear oil, 20l of ISO 68 way oil) for an equivalent of 90USD shipped
11:34 AM enleth: pink_vampire: I have yet to buy some gear grease for the mill's backgear, but I intend to just call the sales department of the local refinery that made those oils I got and ask them for a recommendation based on what the maintenance manual says
11:53 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
12:14 PM IchGucksLive: holzjunkie, geht was
12:14 PM IchGucksLive: holzjunkie, in sache speed
12:14 PM holzjunkie: IchGucksLive: jupp aber nicht genug hab jetzt ne 40000 latenz markus sagt immernoch zu viel
12:15 PM IchGucksLive: holzjunkie, bei mesa ist das völlig irelevand die 7i77 hat ihren eigenen takt
12:15 PM IchGucksLive: holzjunkie, kanste voll vergessen
12:16 PM holzjunkie: IchGucksLive: da ich einen doppelten regelkreis habe sagt markus fällt alles über 20000 raus weil zuschlecht !?
12:16 PM IchGucksLive: holzjunkie, da du komplett mit fpga takt arbeitest ist da keinerlei software im spiel
12:17 PM IchGucksLive: holzjunkie, ich habe hier auf dem P5915 3500
12:17 PM holzjunkie: IchGucksLive: das dachte ich eigentlich auch aber ich had da ja nicht soviel ahnung von...
12:17 PM IchGucksLive: hast du den kernal das smi gepatcht
12:18 PM IchGucksLive: holzjunkie, ist der 2te cor deaktiviert
12:19 PM holzjunkie: IchGucksLive: keine ahnung ist ja debian mit uspacekernel
12:19 PM pcw_home: holzjunkie: I have LinuxCNC running on a couple of HPs with no issues
12:20 PM IchGucksLive: holzjunkie, wie ich sagte völlig irelevandt
12:20 PM pcw_home: An old Core Duo DC7800 running Ubuntu 16.04 and a Elite 8300 running Mint 18
12:20 PM holzjunkie: pcw_home: hy i don´t know what should i do markusbec offert me to help and programming
12:21 PM holzjunkie: pcw_home: without such help i´m stock off
12:23 PM IchGucksLive: holzjunkie, https://www.ebay.de/itm/HP-Compaq-dc-7800-Sff-80-GB-4-GB-RAM-2-8-GHz-CPU-Win-10/292495355699
12:24 PM IchGucksLive: holzjunkie, bleib der maschine die macht sicherlich keine probleme
12:25 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest56623
12:28 PM IchGucksLive: ich nutze mindestens 250 dieiser rechner und alles geht
12:28 PM IchGucksLive: gerade nachgeschaut der plasma mit der 7i92 hat 8k latency
12:28 PM IchGucksLive: ok ich bin weg werde gerufen garten wässern
12:28 PM pcw_home: holzjunkie: what problems do you have?
12:31 PM holzjunkie: i´ve got an esprimo E5615 80gb hdd 6gb ram latnecy and if i start 4 times glxgaers und an youtube video i have 33584 latency
12:31 PM holzjunkie: pcw_home: i´m a Mechanican no Administrator
12:32 PM holzjunkie: pcw_home: and my english is very bad
12:34 PM pcw_home: no problem with your english
12:37 PM holzjunkie: oh thx, but to write something is the one. to read it and understand is the other
12:38 PM pcw_home: the latency you have is fine (even 100K is fine)
12:39 PM holzjunkie: also for 2 control circles?
12:46 PM pcw_home: control circles?
12:49 PM holzjunkie: sorry 2 loops on all axes
12:50 PM pcw_home: latency doesn't really matter as long as you can run the 1 ms servo thread without issue
12:51 PM holzjunkie: can I check this?
12:53 PM pcw_home: do you have a basic LinuxCNC configuration running?
12:53 PM holzjunkie: stretch with uspace !?
12:53 PM pcw_home: yes
12:55 PM pcw_home: well any LinuxCNC uspace version/OS, but I think the Stretch test ISO is the easiest way to start from scratch
12:59 PM holzjunkie: ok my configuration is Esprimo e5615 6gb ddr2 800 40gb hdd 2 network cards:
12:59 PM holzjunkie: 7i80db 16 connected to mainboard lan, internet connected to 2 card
12:59 PM holzjunkie: linuxcnc is installed max jitter Servo 55009 Base 82039
12:59 PM Crom: downloading ISE to compile bit files is going to take a day...
12:59 PM holzjunkie: what should i do for next ?
01:01 PM rmu: holzjunkie: with 7i80 you only need the base-thread
01:01 PM pcw_home: next you need to make a hal and ini file set for the 7I80
01:02 PM rmu: s/base/servo/
01:08 PM holzjunkie: pcw_home: behind the 7i80 is an 7i77 and an 7i75
01:10 PM holzjunkie: can i modify the hal and the ini of the 7i80hd which is in the iso ?
01:10 PM pcw_home: OK since pncconf doesn't know about the 7i80DB I would lie about it and choose 7i92 with one 7I77
01:11 PM holzjunkie: so simple in the pncconfig?
01:11 PM holzjunkie: but whats about the other port for the 7i75
01:14 PM pcw_home: what do you intent to connect to the 7I75?
01:14 PM pcw_home: intend
01:15 PM holzjunkie: door switches, emergency, status light etc. everything what for is no place on the 7i77
01:21 PM gloops: time everything else is done, no time to play with the router...
01:24 PM MarkusBec: the main problem with the esprimo was that it freeze with the RT task running
01:25 PM holzjunkie: hy markus this problem is fixed you can try
01:33 PM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
02:02 PM gloops: ok, if any electrical minded people are bored, there is some disagreement over something
02:03 PM gloops: increasing the voltage to a stepper motor has no effect on heat, the reason being amperage is electronically restricted - any thoughts?
02:04 PM SpeedEvil: False.
02:04 PM SpeedEvil: If you're restricting the amperage, you're not increasing the voltage simply.
02:04 PM SpeedEvil: The question is broken.
02:04 PM gloops: can you explain why? i used ohms law and that states resistance must increase
02:04 PM gloops: why arent you increasing the voltage?
02:04 PM SpeedEvil: Steppers are inductors as well as resistors.
02:05 PM gloops: if i use a 2 amp 30v stepper, but use an 80v driver, with amps restricted to 2, the stepper will get 80v
02:05 PM SpeedEvil: If you keep the same drive current, but increase the drivers maximum current-limited voltage,but the driver is already at the current limit, teh voltage does not change when the motor is static.
02:06 PM SpeedEvil: The driver regulates down to 30V, to drive it at 2A, though it may have a maximum voltage of 80V.
02:06 PM gloops: im using a bigger driver
02:07 PM SpeedEvil: When it's spinning, the voltage may go higher, as the inductance allows higher voltages at the same current.
02:07 PM SpeedEvil: (sort of)
02:07 PM SpeedEvil: If your driver supports current limiting, it never outputs more than the voltage which causes that current. The maximum voltage is unimportant.
02:08 PM gloops: i didnt think drivers restricted volts
02:08 PM SpeedEvil: How else can they restrict amps?
02:09 PM cpresser: you either restrict volts or amps. and since motor coils are damaged by excesive amps, thats the one value that gets limited
02:09 PM gloops: so how do you get a high amp low volt supply?
02:09 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: ebay
02:10 PM SpeedEvil: What is the problem you're trying to solve?
02:10 PM gloops: someone is saying basically that hooking a 30v stepper to an 80v supply will make no difference
02:10 PM gloops: i disagree
02:11 PM cpresser: difference compared to what?
02:11 PM gloops: it wont create any more heat
02:11 PM gloops: V=IR
02:12 PM SpeedEvil: If you connect it to the 80V supply, that will cause more heat.
02:12 PM SpeedEvil: If you use a driver which regulates the current, you're not doing that.
02:12 PM gloops: if you increase V and hold I, R must increase
02:12 PM SpeedEvil: The driver regulates the voltage, either explicitly, or implicitly along with the inductance of the motor using PWM.
02:13 PM SpeedEvil: If you apply 80V 30/80ths of the time, and remove it the rest of the time, then the inductance of the motor smooths it out.
02:14 PM cpresser: and to make things even more complicated, there are different current-decay modes. looking just at the DC formula does not describe the whole system
02:14 PM SpeedEvil: yeah.
02:14 PM SpeedEvil: http://homepage.divms.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/current.html
02:15 PM gloops: so, i have settings for amps on my drivers, if i set power supply to max 50v, and driver to 4 amps, measure the voltage passing through the driver
02:15 PM SpeedEvil: At some level the above assertion breaks down, and you need to consider losses due to eddy currents, with PWM.
02:15 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: with a true RMS meter.
02:15 PM gloops: then reduce the amps to 2 - i must see a drop in voltage?
02:15 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: Of adequate frequency response.
02:15 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: yes.
02:16 PM SpeedEvil: If there is a motor or other load connected drawing 2A
02:16 PM SpeedEvil: Otherwise it'll stay at 50V
02:16 PM gloops: ill try that some time
02:17 PM gloops: so the other bloke is right, i could use 200volt pus and driver, but so long as i limit amps to motor that voltage will never get to the motor
02:18 PM pcw_home: The voltage will got to the motor (but at a low duty cycle)
02:19 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: Never get to the motor when it is not spinning.
02:19 PM pcw_home: the _average_ voltage will be lower
02:19 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: If the motor is holding in one position, the voltage is V=IR
02:19 PM pcw_home: but the peak voltage _will_ be close to 200V
02:19 PM gloops: right
02:19 PM SpeedEvil: If it's spinning fast, it may rise - but the current through the resistive part of teh motor does not rise.
02:19 PM SpeedEvil: So resistive heating does not rise.
02:20 PM SpeedEvil: (other sorts of heating may rise, but to a first order)
02:20 PM gloops: so higher voltage, lets say these coils are designed for 50v, there is going to be resistance - heat
02:20 PM SpeedEvil: If you apply 50V to an inductor, at first there is no current flow.
02:20 PM SpeedEvil: Current then linearly ramps up over time.
02:21 PM gloops: i mean like the wire, is thinner
02:22 PM pcw_home: di/dt=V/L
02:22 PM SpeedEvil: If the inductor has resistance in series (like a stepper motor coil), the voltage across the inductive reactance does not count, as it subtracts from the applied voltage initially.
02:22 PM SpeedEvil: And reduces the current.
02:23 PM pink_vampire: hi
02:23 PM pcw_home: step drives basically chop the voltage (turn in on and off) to achieve ~constant current
02:24 PM SpeedEvil: http://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/application_note/57/c8/7c/c1/0d/91/46/89/CD00003774.pdf/files/CD00003774.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00003774.pdf
02:24 PM SpeedEvil: see that
02:24 PM SpeedEvil: page 10 and on
02:24 PM pcw_home: there is a voltage limit (either in the drive or the motor insulation)
02:25 PM SpeedEvil: yeah. Insulation limit is different from the common voltage.
02:25 PM pcw_home: on higher voltage motors you run into problems with dielectric heating of the insulation
02:32 PM gloops: well, drivers are usually matched with motor size, you would have to use a bigger driver with amps set right down to get supply from 80v psu
02:38 PM rmu: gloops: you configure the current as it says in the motor datasheet, regardless of voltage of power supply
02:39 PM gloops: yes but your 48v driver will throw a red light if you hook it to 80v
02:39 PM rmu: driver takes care of the rest (i.e. pulses the voltage the motor sees to not exceed the current limit, how that is achieved differs from driver to driver and depends on a lot of things)
02:40 PM rmu: yes, of course
02:40 PM rmu: but typical stepper motors are rated something like 4.8V and 2.1A
02:41 PM rmu: that means a direct current applied to a coil will generate the nominal current of 2.1A
02:42 PM rmu: and the motor tolerates resistive heating resulting from this current
02:43 PM rmu: e.g. this one https://en.nanotec.com/products/493-st5909l2008-a/
02:44 PM rmu: 2A / 4.8V
02:48 PM gloops: see someone has tried -
02:48 PM gloops: I've tried to increase the supply to 9VDC, however, after some time, the stepper motor becomes too hot to be touched. I wonder if that can damage the motor.
02:49 PM gloops: it seems pretty common practice to increase volts to boost power with steppers
02:50 PM pcw_home: Increasing voltage increases maximum speed
02:51 PM pcw_home: (that is, it makes the normal torque loss with speed start at a higher RPM)
02:52 PM pcw_home: changing the voltage does not change the low speed torque (for normal constant current drives)
02:53 PM gloops: hmm
02:54 PM pcw_home: because torque is proportional to current and the step drives keep the current constant regardless of the voltage
02:56 PM pcw_home: until the speed is high enough and they dont have enough voltage to keep the current constant, then the current (and torque) drops
02:57 PM rmu: gloops: what driver do you use?
02:57 PM gloops: its not for my machine or anything rmu, just a discussion i saw elsewhere
02:58 PM gloops: someone has 2 nema 23s and 1 nema 34, some told him to buy 1 80v psu and run all the motors from it
02:59 PM Tom_L: most drivers don't like 80v
02:59 PM Tom_L: some of the geckos are rated for it
03:01 PM Tom_L: where does linux install programs by default?
03:01 PM Tom_L: i'm trying to find gedit since it didn't show up anywhere
03:02 PM Tom_L: so i can add an icon for it on the desktop
03:04 PM cpresser: look in /usr/bin
03:12 PM Tom_L: gedit is there but says it's a shared library
03:13 PM Tom_L: also on the file manager i see no searcy
03:13 PM Tom_L: search*
03:14 PM Tom_L: this is the test iso install
03:14 PM Tom_L: so i expect it to be stripped
03:14 PM Tom_L: just not naked
03:15 PM sync: Tom_L: which gedit
03:15 PM sync: is what you want to type in a shell
03:15 PM Tom_L: i did and that works
03:15 PM Tom_L: but i'd like it on the desktop
03:15 PM Tom_L: i used the package manager to install it
03:16 PM sync: no
03:16 PM sync: you don't understand
03:16 PM sync: type "which gedit" in a shell and see what it returns
03:16 PM Tom_L: /usr/bin/gedit
03:18 PM Tom_L: http://www.linuxcnc.org/testing-stretch-rtpreempt/
03:18 PM fragalot: hey
03:18 PM Tom_L: i used one of those iso files
03:18 PM fragalot: seems that no matter what settings you use, windows 10 will always at least shut down the wifi when you close the damn lid
03:18 PM fragalot: >.<
03:19 PM Tom_L: tell it to behave
03:19 PM gloops: superglue the lid switch
03:20 PM sync: there is your answer then Tom_L
03:20 PM fragalot: gloops: it's not a physical switch, I don't think they've done that since 2008
03:20 PM Tom_L: that file won't run from the desktop though
03:20 PM sync: it will, put it in the executable path for the starter
03:21 PM Deejay: gn8
03:23 PM gloops: FreeCAD v0.17 officially released!
03:23 PM gloops: Today
03:24 PM XXCoder: yay
03:24 PM XXCoder: been a while since last offical update
03:24 PM pink_vampire: what got better?
03:25 PM Tom_L: sync, can't get it to work
03:25 PM XXCoder: also means file format is fixed so no worries about compitability.
03:25 PM XXCoder: sadly till I upgrade my os, I can't run freecad.
03:28 PM Tom_L: sync, i installed xchat and it showed up on the menu, gedit didn't
03:28 PM Tom_L: i can run it from a terminal though
03:28 PM sync: well then you can make a starter for it
03:28 PM sync: no idea what window manager you run tho
03:29 PM XXCoder: Tom_L: get hexchat, its actually kept updated version of xchat
03:29 PM gloops: ill return to freecad later, getting hang of blender atm
03:40 PM Tom_L: xcfe i think
03:55 PM gloops: wildcats to be reintroduced to england
03:57 PM gregcnc_: not enough strays?
03:57 PM gloops: already done beavers and wild boar, lynx program underway, not sure what the thing is bringing these danerous animals back
03:57 PM gloops: there are a million unwanted cats here, in fact probably far more
03:58 PM gloops: cats breed like rabbits
03:58 PM XXCoder: Tom_L: xfce?
03:58 PM XXCoder: gloops: make good recipe for cat stew
03:59 PM gloops: ive never knowingly eaten cat, its not a meat they eat round these parts
03:59 PM XXCoder: yeah but same time best way to get rid of unwanted species is great recipes and eat em
04:00 PM gloops: what we need is some wild dogs
04:01 PM gregcnc_: cats are pretty fast you'll never chase them down with a knife
04:01 PM gloops: wildcat is a terrible creature, youd never handle one, would need to shoot it
04:16 PM enleth: pink_vampire: look at the backlog, I dropped in a couple suggestions on obtaining the lubricants
04:18 PM pink_vampire: lets see
04:18 PM enleth: pink_vampire: about 5 hours back
04:20 PM pink_vampire: <enleth> pink_vampire: to be honest - you should probably find a local grease and oil vendor, call them, say you've got this machine and there are some lubricants indicated in the manual and you wish to email them a scan of the manual page and ask them to figure out compatible products they offer [12:29:35] <enleth> pink_vampire: that's what sales reps are for [12:29:48] <gregcnc_> if energy savin
04:20 PM pink_vampire: i think to get something from amazon
04:25 PM gregcnc_: lubes for that machine are not going to be critical
04:27 PM pink_vampire: i want to get the correct lube, to avoid mix stuff later
04:27 PM gregcnc_: not critical
04:28 PM gregcnc_: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/60002151
04:29 PM pink_vampire: i'm more concern about the grease
04:29 PM enleth: gregcnc_: the machine probably won't care much, but the oils will if you mix wrong stuff together
04:29 PM gregcnc_: NLGI what?
04:30 PM enleth: gregcnc_: cleaning up a gearbox full of shit that turned into a gel or percipitated out one component is no fun
04:30 PM pink_vampire: No. 1 NLGI grade heat-resistant lithium-based
04:31 PM gregcnc_: so without knowledge of what was used previously how do you avoid it?
04:32 PM pink_vampire: i was clean every part of it
04:32 PM pink_vampire: even re tap the holes
04:33 PM enleth: gregcnc_: clean it dry
04:34 PM pink_vampire: let me take a pic
04:34 PM gregcnc_: then I'm confused why would you change it later?
04:36 PM gregcnc_: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/emco-maximat-v10-p-headstock-gearbox-oil-148860/#post799949
04:37 PM pink_vampire: lathe carriage https://i.imgur.com/gWGux5i.jpg
04:39 PM pink_vampire: it took me days to go through each part and degrease it,
04:39 PM pink_vampire: so i want to get the best lube and be done with it
04:39 PM gregcnc_: best
04:40 PM Tom_L: vactra 2
04:41 PM pink_vampire: vactra 2 is a way oil - what grease brand to get for all the grease points?
04:42 PM Tom_L: if you go to the mobile website, somewhere there is a list of machine mfg and recomended lubricants
04:43 PM enleth: gregcnc_: ideally I wouldn't, which is why selecting it properly is important. in this case, an interesting question is whether the grease in this lathe is at any risk of getting in contact with the way oil
04:44 PM enleth: if it is, the two should be compatible
04:44 PM pink_vampire: i'm sure the way oil will touch the grease
04:45 PM Tom_L: https://www.mobil.com/en/industrial/Lubricants/Products/MOBIL-VACTRA-OIL-NO-2
04:45 PM Tom_L: "Find your equipment"
04:45 PM enleth: so you don't want to pick them at random, there will be combinations where any one of the two would be perfectly fine for that lathe but they'll do weird stuff when they mix
04:46 PM pink_vampire: i know, they become solid
04:46 PM pink_vampire: i had that on the g0704,
04:47 PM enleth: pink_vampire: you're probably fine going for Vactra 2 as the way oil, then just selecting everything else by checking if it's compatible with Vactra 2
04:47 PM enleth: everyone and their grandma and her dog uses it
04:48 PM pink_vampire: so for the gear box, i need SAE 10, for the ways- MOBIL VACTRA OIL NO 2, and, and for the grease point i have no idea.
04:49 PM pink_vampire: how do i check if it compatible or not?
04:49 PM enleth: find a small local Mobil distributor, call them, say you need a SAE 10 oil and a grease that are compatible with Vactra 2, and you want to order all 3 if they figure it out
04:50 PM enleth: or dig through datasheets and compatibility charts
04:50 PM enleth: they're out there somewhere
04:50 PM gregcnc_: good luck with that
04:50 PM Tom_L: the SDS & PDS are both in that link
04:50 PM Tom_L: for vactra 2
04:50 PM gregcnc_: i had a hard time finding 5 gallon of coolant
04:50 PM gregcnc_: everyone wanted to sell 55 gallons
04:51 PM Tom_L: really?
04:51 PM gregcnc_: locally
04:51 PM Tom_L: they sell 5 & 1 locally
04:51 PM Tom_L: here
04:51 PM pink_vampire: LOL 55 gallon!
04:51 PM gregcnc_: I ended up finding a small shop
04:51 PM Tom_L: i was surprised to find 1 gal
04:51 PM gregcnc_: i wanted cutting oil
04:51 PM Tom_L: not water soluable?
04:51 PM gregcnc_: i ended up with emulsion
04:52 PM pink_vampire: i want to see my landlord look at me and the 55 gallon drum of oil..
04:52 PM gregcnc_: mobil velocite 2 is SAE10
04:53 PM enleth: gregcnc_: elaborating more on changing oils in a machine: it would be possible to select an oil that is perfectly fine for your machine, fill up the gearboxes and whatnot, and then realize that it limits your grease choice down to stuff that is too expensive/not available in small quantities/hard to get locally/whatever because of additive compatibility
04:54 PM gregcnc_: that makes sense in an industrial setting
04:54 PM gregcnc_: as a hobby one time purchase will often be lifetime supply
04:54 PM pink_vampire: 17:51:29] <gregcnc_> mobil velocite 2 is SAE10 - where did you saw it?
04:54 PM gregcnc_: let me make sure
04:55 PM pink_vampire: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/60002151
04:55 PM Tom_L: https://www.mobil.com/english-us/industrial/pds/glxxmobil-velocite-oil-no-series
04:56 PM pink_vampire: View the Mobil Velocite Oil No. Series Spindle and Hydraulic Oils
04:57 PM pink_vampire: there is no vactra oil there
04:57 PM Tom_L: different product
04:58 PM pink_vampire: https://www.mobil.com/en/industrial/lubricants/product-series/mobil-vactra-oil-numbered-series
04:59 PM pink_vampire: ISO Viscosity Grade - 68
04:59 PM pink_vampire: 68 is like the 10 in SAE 10?
04:59 PM gregcnc_: no
04:59 PM gregcnc_: ISO scale is not eh same as SAE scale
05:00 PM pink_vampire: is the a way to convert between them? like inch and mm?
05:01 PM enleth: there was this nifty chart somewhere
05:01 PM enleth: it's not a 1:1 conversion, though, AFAIR SAE grades specify some parameters that are not considered important to apply an ISO grade
05:02 PM Tom_L: https://www.farmandfleet.com/blog/sae-to-iso-oil-conversion-chart/
05:02 PM enleth: shouldn't matter here
05:03 PM pink_vampire: so vactra 2 is more like sae 20?
05:04 PM pink_vampire: vactra 1 is 32 iso, and it is 10 sae
05:04 PM gregcnc_: Vactra is specifically a way oil
05:04 PM gregcnc_: Velocite is a spinde oil
05:05 PM pink_vampire: so if vactra is for the ways, what to put in the gears?
05:06 PM pink_vampire: also vactra?
05:07 PM gregcnc_: I went through this when I got my lathe. the choices are endless, especially when EMco didn't actually spec anything
05:07 PM gregcnc_: obsolete oils are often difficult to compare too
05:08 PM pink_vampire: it will be bad idea to use vactra 2 in the gearbox?
05:10 PM gregcnc_: i don't know what would happen
05:14 PM gregcnc_: the PM post said Mobil DTE 24 which is what I would use
05:14 PM pink_vampire: let me see
05:26 PM Tom_L: wb jthornton
05:30 PM jthornton: thanks Tom_L
05:30 PM Tom_L: i tried your install instructions but failed on the last line
05:30 PM Tom_L: the error is in the -devel logs
05:30 PM Tom_L: from ? yesterday
05:30 PM jthornton: the logs seem to be broken
05:32 PM Tom_L: i went ahead and tried a devel iso but i'd rather do your install
05:33 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:33 PM jthornton: yea you can select more options during the install from scratch
05:33 PM jthornton: I'll run through it again in the morning
05:34 PM jthornton: tired and ready to relax after the drive
05:37 PM Tom_L: can't say i blame ya
06:00 PM ves: 3 hrs on ISE download
06:05 PM Tom_L: at least you got logged in
06:06 PM Tom_L: i thought it would be quicker to download it again over copying it to at thumbdrive and moving it to another pc
06:06 PM Tom_L: but wasn't able to log in
06:20 PM ves: probably quick to copy it to a thumb drive... 8 hours download at 100mbps for 8+GB
06:20 PM ves: down to 2 hours left
06:21 PM ves: started it at 10ish this morning it's now 3:20
06:27 PM Tom_L: you need a better connection for that file
06:31 PM Tom_L: ves, for linux? you should have gotten the 6g file
06:32 PM Tom_L: just linux, not win/linux
08:37 PM ves: 12 minutes left for the 7.9Gigglebite dl
08:37 PM Tom_L: heh
08:38 PM ves: nah. more like 1/2 a hour...
08:38 PM ves: the 12minute is jumping from 30 minutes to 12
08:39 PM Tom_L: i'm about to install it on mine
08:41 PM ves: trying to figure out the x"00" x"04" between the lines IOPortTag & x"01" & StepGenTag & StepGenStepPin, -- I/O 06 PIN 4 Y Step IOPortTag & x"04" & NullTag & NullPin, -- I/O 07 PIN 17 OUTPUT RELAY
08:41 PM ves: in the vhd file
08:42 PM Tom_L: gimme a bit and i'll look
08:42 PM Tom_L: you seen the tutorial i put together?
08:44 PM ves: nope, pretty virgin to mesa cards
08:44 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx14_install_index.php
08:44 PM Tom_L: that should help
08:45 PM Tom_L: i'm a little rusty on it myself. haven't done one for a while
08:45 PM Tom_L: that's also listed in the wiki
08:46 PM ves: nice, I'll look at it, soon as I'm back from replacing a ceiling fan
09:03 PM pcw_home: ves: normally you dont need to make your own bit files
09:04 PM pcw_home: and there a bit of a risk the first time since you can make a mistake and brick your card
09:09 PM CaptHindsight: pcw_home: whats the latest stable version of the xilinx tools?
09:11 PM Tom_L: the last design suite was 14.7
09:11 PM CaptHindsight: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Editing_MESA_Bitfiles has 14.5
09:11 PM Tom_L: yeah i just installed 14.7
09:12 PM Tom_L: i bet when i did that it was 14.5
09:12 PM CaptHindsight: any bugs?
09:12 PM Tom_L: it works
09:13 PM Tom_L: you get a few warnings
09:13 PM Tom_L: the older cards used 9.x something iirc
09:13 PM CaptHindsight: heh, yeah was Jan of 15
09:14 PM Tom_L: change it if you like
09:14 PM Tom_L: i should update my webpage too
09:14 PM pcw_home: yeah I use 14.7 mostly
09:15 PM pcw_home: probably have to move to Vivado for Artix/Sp7
09:15 PM CaptHindsight: I have Vivado from a few years ago
09:16 PM CaptHindsight: and 14.4 already installed
09:19 PM Tom_L: pcw_home, do i want the seveni80db.xise or hd
09:23 PM pcw_home: hd
09:24 PM pcw_home: 7I80DB has 4 DB25s 7I80HD has 3x50 pin
09:24 PM Tom_L: i figured it was the header type
09:24 PM Tom_L: and this is a 16 chip, not a 25
09:25 PM Tom_L: i can use the same basic pin file from my 7i47s on this right? just change the card type
09:26 PM CaptHindsight: As of October 2013, ISE has moved into the sustaining phase of its product life cycle, and there are no more planned ISE releases.
09:26 PM Tom_L: yeah
09:26 PM Tom_L: 14.7 was it
09:38 PM Tom_shop: test.. just setting stuff up
09:40 PM CaptHindsight: Zynq uses Mali in the new devices
09:40 PM CaptHindsight: how are you uspposed to use those if all the driver source is closed
09:48 PM pcw_home: Vivado doesn't support older chips only Artix and newer
09:48 PM pcw_home: (7 series)
10:01 PM CaptHindsight: it came with some ZYNQ dev boards
10:02 PM CaptHindsight: I forget all the in's and out's
11:20 PM MrHindsight is now known as CaptHindsight
11:57 PM holzjunkie: ich hab den übeltäter wie schalte ich die Energieverwaltung unter debian komplett ab ?