#linuxcnc Logs
Apr 02 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:58 AM XXCoder: clickspring!
01:02 AM IchGucksLive: morning from spring germany
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: miami declared hazzard on teen invation
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: daytona under special law
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: so its SPRINGBREAK
01:04 AM IchGucksLive: im off for a bicicle tour with the guests ;-) i love my E-bike
02:05 AM gloops: 40mm of snow and still coming down, awesome
02:15 AM Deejay: moin
04:03 AM gloops: looks like im gonna have to fathom this 8 wire motor out or get another motor asap
04:04 AM XXCoder: whats wrong
04:05 AM gloops: getting joint following error unless speed is low
04:05 AM gloops: otherwise everything else seems to be working fine
04:05 AM XXCoder: whats your max speed
04:06 AM gloops: it jogs ok around 60 ipm, when running g code though it only wants to do 40 ipm
04:07 AM gloops: it is a 3nm motor - when all wires connected heh
04:08 AM gloops: i tried 8 wires before, followed trial and error procedure but it wouldnt work on the other 2 coils - however at that time the driver was faulty
04:08 AM gloops: so ill try again but i aint spending too long messing with it
04:10 AM enleth: CaptHindsight: heh, last week ABOM79 turned a new ACME nut for tool downfeed on his shaper and actually ditched the first one he made because he ground a tool with not enough side clearance and got bad surface finish and 3 thou backlash. the second version that 1 thou. on an ACME screw.
04:11 AM enleth: an old, worn down ACME screw, no less
04:12 AM enleth: CaptHindsight: also, what old Heidenhain encoder is that?
04:14 AM gloops: hmm actually thought of something else affecting this motor, have got microsteps pretty high i think
04:14 AM XXCoder: yeah some steppers cant take too high microsteps. whats your microstepping setting at?
04:16 AM gloops: im not sure off hand but its higher than the others, i set it up in a bit of a daze lol, ill check that shortly
04:17 AM gloops: because motor torque shouldnt throw joint following error anyway, as we said yesterday
04:17 AM XXCoder: is it aroyund 2 digits or 3 digits?
04:17 AM XXCoder: or is it 100 digits? ;)
04:17 AM gloops: scale is ..300 odd
04:18 AM gloops: 300 steps per mm
04:19 AM XXCoder: I assume t8 screws?
04:19 AM gloops: 1 rotation = 5mm, i guess microstepping at 1600
04:19 AM XXCoder: 16 you mean?
04:19 AM gloops: 5mm pitch screws
04:20 AM gloops: 1600 steps per rotation
04:21 AM XXCoder: is it normal 1.8 degree stepper?
04:21 AM gloops: yeah just a normal stepper, 200 steps
04:22 AM XXCoder: your microstep setting is at 8
04:22 AM XXCoder: typical for cnc
04:22 AM gloops: yeah i wouldnt thought that was borderline
04:22 AM XXCoder: 4 is pretty common also, not too sure what is most common
04:22 AM XXCoder: 16 gets fewer and 32 essentally never
04:23 AM XXCoder: (for smaller machines anyway dunno about big machines)
04:23 AM gloops: will check acceleration, im not sure if that would throw joint following error
04:24 AM gloops: anyway something is amiss with that axis, the motor doesnt stall or anything, it can pull the weight, just get that error
04:25 AM rmu: gloops: if you don't have an encoder the joint following error is purely a software problem and will happen the same even if the motors are turned off
04:25 AM gloops: rmu so we are looking at the settings for that axis
04:26 AM rmu: yes, there is something off. probably some MAX_ACCELERATION setting is too high or stepgen maxaccel is too low
04:27 AM rmu: or your stepgen thread is running too slow
04:29 AM gloops: so first ill check accel etc, then ill sort the micro stepping bring that down, its coming back to me slowly lol, last summer i last used linuxcnc
04:32 AM rmu: the microstepping has nothing to do with the following error
04:32 AM gloops: ok ill not spend much time with that
04:32 AM gloops: basically ini config
04:32 AM gloops: or possible driver issues ?
04:33 AM rmu: without any feedback of actual positions, linuxcnc is flying blind, the following error happens between motion planner and stepgen that is not able to follow
04:33 AM rmu: (hal components)
04:33 AM rmu: what kind of interface do you use? parallel port or some kind of FPGA interface?
04:34 AM gloops: parport
04:34 AM rmu: re. following error, i would check servo and stepgen thread periods, and acceleration values in INI file
04:35 AM rmu: serve period probably is something around 1000µs, and stepgen period around 30-100µs
04:36 AM rmu: s/serve/servo/
04:37 AM rmu: and compare max speeds with stepgen period, if you have a maximum steprate of 50kHz and a stepgen period of 100µS it can't work
04:49 AM gloops: well reducing max accel and velocity improves thing, just throws error when code is finished running and it returns to safe height
04:50 AM gloops: ill play some more, maxaccel in TRAJ is somewhat higher than it needs to be too
04:50 AM rmu: accel in stepgen should be between 1.1 and 2 times maxaccel in traj
04:51 AM rmu: according to doc
04:53 AM gloops: why would that be?
04:59 AM jthornton: morning
05:00 AM XXCoder: hey the jt
05:00 AM XXCoder: downstairs is ready to be painted! tomorrow :)
05:00 AM jthornton: yea!
05:00 AM jthornton: taking shape then
05:00 AM XXCoder: then floor in few days after that. then we finally get crap back from storage
05:01 AM XXCoder: then when settled down, we start ripping walls off one room
05:01 AM rmu: gloops: stepgen contains a control-loop that is closed internally, it has to have somewhat "higher" limits in order to follow commands
05:01 AM jthornton: you going to make a machine shop down in the basement?
05:02 AM XXCoder: restroom is left alone because of huge ponental of having to rip floor up to fix probably badly done sewer system there
05:02 AM XXCoder: nah we plan to get a shop
05:02 AM XXCoder: 24'x24' possibly
05:02 AM rmu: gloops: see http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini-config.html parameter STEPGEN_MAXACCEL and STEPGEN_MAXVEL at end of page
05:09 AM gloops: STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 21.0 - Acceleration limit for the step generator. This should be 1% to 10% larger than the axis
05:09 AM gloops: mine is like 10 X higher lol
05:09 AM gloops: so ill look at that in a minute
05:12 AM gloops: to get the starter file for this config i just skipped through stepconfig wizard and threw some values in, some things i have not corrected in the finished config
05:13 AM rmu: you can reopen your config with stepconfig
05:13 AM gloops: it will overwrite the editing ive done though, which is substantial
05:15 AM rmu: choose your poison ;)
05:16 AM gloops: no ill sort it, its all learning
05:16 AM jthornton: it's better to only use stepconf for the initial configuration then edit the files after that
05:17 AM gloops: yes, i cant be making these configs again haha
05:17 AM gloops: i dont think it is the global values in TRAJ, ill have a look at stepgen
05:29 AM Tom_L: 26°F
05:30 AM XXCoder: rmu: interesting. I want to look that up evenually
05:30 AM XXCoder: gloops: theres an alterate
05:31 AM XXCoder: just make new machine configuration
05:31 AM XXCoder: then copy selections from that to your current,
05:31 AM XXCoder: dont n eed to do everything over
05:31 AM gloops: yes thats the best idea
05:31 AM gloops: just compare the 2
05:32 AM XXCoder: thats what I did when I royally screwed up my first configation
05:32 AM gloops: its down to last line which is G0 z0 - so rapid is too fast for z, im looking at default accel and default vel in traj
05:33 AM gloops: the only time it throws error is when running g code - z rapid
05:34 AM Tom_L: counterweights are your friend
05:34 AM rmu: gloops: perhaps rapid speed for z axis is simply too high?
05:34 AM XXCoder: Tom_L: it has no position sensor
05:34 AM XXCoder: so its on some configuration issue
05:35 AM XXCoder: indeed can have different max speeds for axis. one of machine at work have screwed up counterweight so its z max is less than 10% of other 2 axis max lol
05:36 AM gloops: rmu well i assumed z would rapid at its max velocity
05:36 AM gloops: if i jog it - no error, only when running code
05:36 AM rmu: jog speed != rapid speed IIRC
05:37 AM XXCoder: I wonder if it "overflows" max stepgen when you use more than one axis at high speed
05:37 AM gloops: no but if i jog it as fast as it will go - no error
05:37 AM rmu: gloops: what stepgen period do you use?
05:38 AM gloops: not got it in front of me, the other axis runs fine at 5000mm/min
05:38 AM XXCoder: gloops: make gcode to run all 3 axis at a rapid for just a inch
05:38 AM XXCoder: and another gcode to just move Z in rapid
05:39 AM gloops: hmm that might be worth trying
05:41 AM rmu: i recommend putting config files into git or other flavour of scm and checkpointing progress/working configurations
05:41 AM XXCoder: yep version controlo is awesome.
05:42 AM gloops: im sure its nothing, and i dont mind learning, but its the old enemy - time
05:42 AM gloops: days can pass faffing about with these snags
05:42 AM XXCoder: time goes on forever
05:53 AM Tom_L: gloops, STEPGEN_MAXACCEL needs to be higher than MAX_ACCELERATION
05:53 AM Tom_L: by probably 20% or so
05:55 AM gloops: ok...think thats sorted it, its just cut the default linuxcnc code in the air no problem
05:55 AM Tom_L: what changed?
05:55 AM gloops: i changed default velocity
05:56 AM Tom_L: there are some for [TRAJ] and some for [DISPLAY] iirc
05:56 AM gloops: yeah i did both
05:56 AM Tom_L: one controls the sliders
05:57 AM gloops: that would be DISPLAY
05:57 AM gloops: the TRAJ default velocity sets the initial jog speed for rapids - i think
05:59 AM gloops: initial jog speed pff
05:59 AM gloops: sets the initial rapid speed
06:01 AM gloops: DEFAULT_VELOCITY = 0.0167 - The initial rate for jogs of linear axes, in machine units per second. The value shown in Axis equals machine units per minute.
06:02 AM gloops: so, and i dont know what im talking about, if the initial rate for rapid is a jump faster than the max accel for the axis - that would throw an error
06:03 AM Tom_L: accel gets you _to_ the max rate
06:03 AM Tom_L: (how far you smash the gas pedal)
06:03 AM gloops: yes i dont think that change was it now
06:04 AM gloops: i ran the default linuxcnc code by mistake, and it worked fine lol, maybe it is just the code i was using
06:04 AM gloops: but cant see how
06:04 AM Tom_L: the machine should run any correct code
06:05 AM gloops: yes
06:05 AM gloops: it would throw a code error anyway not a joint arror
06:05 AM Tom_L: check the stepgen values i mentioned above
06:06 AM Tom_L: ttyl, gotta go
06:07 AM gloops: ok, will do some tests through the day, i need to get out as soon as it stops raining
08:53 AM Beachbumpete1: Morning LinuxCNC :)
08:55 AM gloops: My money worries really came to a head yesterday . I was so depressed I drove down to Beachy Head parked about five feet from the edge of the cliffs and prepared myself to drive off.
08:56 AM gloops: Then lots of strangers asked me what was wrong and tried to talk me out of it . They even went as far as having a whip round to raise money to help me out.
08:56 AM gloops: I'd now like to thank all those wonderful passengers on my bus for the two thousand quid :)
08:58 AM Beachbumpete1: ?
08:58 AM gregcnc: lol
08:58 AM gregcnc: he was driving the bus
08:59 AM gregcnc: all along working on the mill ad asking questions here
09:00 AM Beachbumpete1: LOL
09:00 AM gregcnc: i think it is the 2nd though
09:00 AM Beachbumpete1: damn it is good to be back home and sleeping in my own bed
09:00 AM CaptHindsight: gloops: https://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help-you/contact-us
09:01 AM gloops: lol, i might need them if this thread repair goes wrong in a minute
09:01 AM gregcnc: did you bring the machines back on a trailer behind the plane?
09:01 AM gloops: afk
09:06 AM Loetmichel: gregcnc: that would be a funny concept. Trailers for planes
09:07 AM Loetmichel: could be possible... kinda like a soaring plane start or something
09:08 AM gregcnc: surfing? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNNSSugEGCI
09:10 AM gregcnc: just book a C-17 or AN-226 for the flight home
09:11 AM gregcnc: I got a new compressor tank on Saturday. Time to move all the parts to the new tank.
09:55 AM hazzy-dev: gregcnc: After your new tank sprung a leak I decided to remove the inspection bung on my tank and check out, its from 1989 so has seen some use
09:55 AM gregcnc: How did it look?
09:56 AM hazzy-dev: Turns out is was heavily rusted!
09:56 AM enleth: I have to do the same, but so far a homemade pin wrench failed to unscrew the damn plug
09:56 AM gregcnc: not really surprising, there is no rust protection and water to some extent is constanty cycling through
09:57 AM hazzy-dev: I am scared of rusted air tanks so I am moving the pump over to a new 25gal ASME certified to 200psi tank
09:57 AM enleth: don't they make tanks that are painted on the inside?
09:58 AM hazzy-dev: I was wondering about coating the inside of the tank with that stuff for auto fule tanks
10:02 AM CaptHindsight: is it already rusty inside or clean?
10:10 AM hazzy-dev: CaptHindsight: It has a some light surface rust, but I was thinking about strapping it to the parts tumbler with some small hardware thrown in to clean it up before coating
10:12 AM gloops: you are supposed to drain them
10:16 AM gregcnc: hah stainless tanks exist for a small fortune
10:17 AM hazzy-dev: gloops: Here in the humid south it is not uncommon for a few cups or more of H2O to collect in the tank each day, I am going to put an auto drain on the new tank
10:18 AM hazzy-dev: What I need to find is an old HP nitrogen dewar, they are stainless and would make a sweet air tank!
10:20 AM CaptHindsight: not a fan of Dewars :)
10:21 AM hazzy-dev: CaptHindsight: Who is? :)
10:21 AM CaptHindsight: hazzy-dev: sounds like you are catching it early enough to make some difference
10:22 AM CaptHindsight: the problem is if the polymer doesn't coat everything the water will still get to the steel
10:22 AM jdh: the tanks expand/contract with pressue
10:22 AM CaptHindsight: the polymer can as well
10:23 AM hazzy-dev: I had a relief valve fail open on a nitrogen dewar at 200psi, is was in the nuclear lab and happened during a tour. Needless to say everybody fled the building thinking it was the end, LOL
10:23 AM jdh: ours vent all the time. Some are louder than others
10:24 AM CaptHindsight: I have a 1.5" valve on the side of mine. If I crack it open it sounds like a jet taking off
10:24 AM hazzy-dev: CaptHindsight: That is my concern, if I don't cover every bit of steel then it might trap water and be worse than not coating it
10:25 AM CaptHindsight: rust converter and inspection camera on flexible arm
10:26 AM Connor: Holy Crap.. I was trying to use a parting tool on a G0602.. WTF.. The tool post was shaking and chattering.. I was trying to part off some brass, and it crashed on me 4 times.. broke the Parting tool on both ends..
10:26 AM hazzy-dev: jdh: I had to put signs reading "Hissing sound is normal" on all the windows in the lab, because the venting scared so many people, hehe
10:26 AM Connor: What the heck am I doing wrong, or what am I missing..
10:26 AM CaptHindsight: making sunnyside down eggs?
10:27 AM jdh: tool too high? not square to work?
10:28 AM Connor: It looked good to me. I've seen complaints that the G0602's tool post just isn't that rigid... I'm wondering if that's it..
10:28 AM gregcnc: how wide is the blade?
10:28 AM gregcnc: RPM?
10:29 AM Connor: .100" I think.. This was yesterday and I'm not at the maker space.. so I can't check.
10:30 AM CaptHindsight: have a pic of the parting tool? How far was the tip from the holder?
10:31 AM Connor: 1200 RPM, Brass was the end of a .45ACP spent shell (with a mandrill inside to keep from crushing.)
10:31 AM gregcnc: slow it down
10:31 AM Connor: We were cutting the bases off of the shells, so solid section..
10:31 AM Connor: Yea, 1200RPM seamed a bit too fast..
10:32 AM gregcnc: basically in small lathes you'r only option if everything else has been checked
10:33 AM CaptHindsight: lathe running backwards?
10:33 AM gregcnc: wind the compound back so it's not hanging over it's dovetail or even further
10:33 AM Connor: CaptHindsight: No.
10:33 AM hazzy-dev: Connor: I have found the compound is the weak link on my G0602, you don't need it for parting so take it off and make up a little block to mount the tool-post directly to the compound. You will think you are working on a completely different lathe
10:33 AM gregcnc: Oh yeah I set my 10" lathe with the parting tool inverted
10:34 AM CaptHindsight: http://cdn0.grizzly.com/pics/jpeg1000/g/g0602_det3-d54ad3a4dd596f7bcfef16a523631d81.jpg
10:34 AM gregcnc: yeah it looks unsturdy?
10:35 AM Connor: I think we're going to redo it with a 6 bold mod and larger support.
10:35 AM CaptHindsight: 1/4" pot metal?
10:35 AM hazzy-dev: I meant directly to the cross slide. That black plate that clamps the compound swivel if very flexible
10:37 AM Connor: hazzy-dev: Yea, I've seen that mod as well. Since it's in a community workshop, we want to leave the compound on because we have no clue who's going to be doing what with it next.. So, Removing the crappy black part and replacing it with something much stronger is the next best thing.
10:37 AM methods_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPQHG-LevZM
10:37 AM methods_: spacex today
10:46 AM jdh: Connor: https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=5857&category=1963256897
10:47 AM Connor: Nice find. I didn't know they made something for that..
10:47 AM jdh: there are plans out there for them.
10:48 AM jdh: I have one somewhere for my 9x20 from when a2z or someone made them
10:49 AM jdh: http://bedair.org/clamp/9x20clamp.html
11:08 AM Connor: jdh: Now that I have the bridgeport running, that plate doesn't look all that hard to make.. 2 boring/turning operations, a third boring for the divit on the front.. 2 shoulder cuts, some holes with counter sinks.. and th angled cut for viewing window..
11:10 AM jdh: I haven't seen my lathe in a year or so. It is hidden behind some boxes that I am saving in case I ever need to ship something in a weird size box that will never happen
11:11 AM Rab: box hoarding = fire hazard
11:11 AM jdh: it's ok. it is at least 15ft from my o2 bottles
11:12 AM Rab: But surprisingly seductive...nothing's worse than needing a box you broke down and recycled a week ago.
11:37 AM Deejay: re
11:38 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
11:38 AM Beachbumpete1: methods thanks man I will look for that
11:53 AM gregcnc: trailer bot? https://youtu.be/GINFzcvHP3Q
11:57 AM Beachbumpete1: any of you guys have or have tried that Structure sensor by occipital? Looks interesting and price is reasonable
12:00 PM enleth: jdh: flatten the boxes maybe?
12:01 PM Tom_L: Connor brass loves to grab
12:01 PM jdh: yeah. that sounds like work though. They also have some assorted packing material in them (mostly bike and bike wheel boxes)
12:01 PM Connor: Tom_L: Apparently...
12:02 PM jdh: 45 brass is work hardened
12:03 PM Tom_L: copper is worse to machine
12:03 PM Tom_L: actually brass machines not too bad but it's grabby
12:03 PM Tom_L: jdh, you're a box collector too ehh?
12:03 PM Beachbumpete1: I have machined and parted rifle cases and they generally gut decently
12:04 PM IchGucksLive: i woudt not cut brass on a hobby mill
12:04 PM Beachbumpete1: but yeah brass IS grabby
12:04 PM jdh: Tom_L: it's quite sad really.
12:04 PM Connor: Beachbumpete1: This was at the base right before the rim.. solid part of the brass.
12:04 PM IchGucksLive: even a G60 70 is not that tool to be choosen
12:04 PM Tom_L: i finally tossed a few. got tired of tripping over em
12:05 PM Tom_L: Connor don't leave any more than you absolutely need sticking out
12:05 PM jdh: I do that with amazon ones now.
12:05 PM Beachbumpete1: Connor also the shape and grind of the cutter is important. wide and flat takes a lot of force and can chatter easily
12:06 PM gregcnc: connor which part of the casing are you keeping?
12:06 PM Connor: gregcnc: The base part.. He was making something artistic with it..
12:07 PM Beachbumpete1: guitar knobs? ;)
12:07 PM Connor: I think it was a issue with the tool post like we said, and maybe too high RPM.
12:07 PM gregcnc: RPM for sure
12:07 PM Tom_L: what diameter?
12:07 PM Tom_L: that didn't sound too high to me
12:07 PM Beachbumpete1: .45 ;)
12:08 PM Tom_L: i used to part off 1" brass by the thousands in another life
12:09 PM Tom_L: the bad jobs were cutting barb fittings from it
12:09 PM Tom_L: long skinny parts
12:11 PM Tom_L: Beachbumpete1 you gonna practice cut your guitar in wax or something?
12:13 PM Beachbumpete1: probably a couple glued up 2x4'a
12:13 PM Beachbumpete1: wax that big might be spensive
12:13 PM Beachbumpete1: not having much luck modifying that damn model tho.
12:14 PM Tom_L: you're trying to save the cuts but mod the model?
12:14 PM Beachbumpete1: well yeah sure
12:14 PM Beachbumpete1: the edge of the horn is not smooth contour and I have yet to be able to modify the solid model
12:15 PM Tom_L: it can probably be done but beyond the scope of this conversation :)
12:15 PM Beachbumpete1: why is that?
12:15 PM Tom_L: cause i don't know how
12:15 PM Tom_L: especially on an imported model
12:16 PM Beachbumpete1: ah ok
12:16 PM Beachbumpete1: I did get it turned into an IGES
12:16 PM Tom_L: that shouldn't be too difficult
12:16 PM Beachbumpete1: but did not have much time to play with it lately. Been flying around the damn world all week LOL
12:16 PM hazzy-dev: I just pulled out a BRAND NEW 2hp 3600rpm induction motor only to find that the start cap has blown, apparently violently, while sitting on the shelf WTH?
12:17 PM hazzy-dev: How is that even possible
12:17 PM Beachbumpete1: lightening?
12:17 PM Tom_L: call ghosthunters
12:17 PM Rab: Bad QC, failed (during) testing but they shipped it anyway.
12:17 PM hazzy-dev: We did get struck, but the motor was all boxed up, would not think it would have been effected
12:18 PM Tom_L: maybe they left it charged and somebody decided to discharge it
12:18 PM hazzy-dev: I tested the motor when I got it and it was fine, very odd
12:18 PM Rab: hmmm
12:20 PM hazzy-dev: I am thinking it must have been the lightening, we did get a pretty much direct hit. Maybe just the static in the air charged it up enough to blow it
12:22 PM hazzy-dev: I should check the other motors, I have a bunch. Sure hope this is the only one, it is too late to claim on insurance
12:23 PM Tom_L: new cap should put you back in business
12:24 PM hazzy-dev: Sure its an easy fix, but I don't expect a new motor to have a blown cap :)
12:25 PM * hazzy-dev goes off to hunt down a cap
12:34 PM hazzy-dev: Interesting, the damaged motor is a WEG and has plastic covers on the caps, the others are US or Baldor and have metal covers and little resistors to bleed off any statically induced change. The metal cover acts as a Faraday cage, and probably would have prevented the damage
12:36 PM * roycroft wonders why 0.120" diameter end mills are uncommon, when that is a very common thickness of fabrication steel
12:36 PM djdelorie: how often do you mill fab steel edge-on ?
12:36 PM djdelorie: ah, slots...
12:36 PM roycroft: yes
12:36 PM IchGucksLive: im off GN8
12:36 PM roycroft: and i have a number of them to do soon
12:37 PM roycroft: which means getting a 1/16" end mill and taking two passes
12:37 PM djdelorie: you don't need the 5 thou clearance a 1/8" mill would give?
12:37 PM roycroft: i'd rather not
12:37 PM roycroft: but i've considered that
12:37 PM * djdelorie bets you could grind the 2.5 thou off a 1/8" pretty easily :-)
12:38 PM roycroft: they're going to be captive brackets that will not be fastened, just fitted in the slots, and the parts will be subject to vibration
12:38 PM djdelorie: but if you need that much precision, would it be better to use two passes with a 3/32 and dial it in?
12:38 PM roycroft: 0.005" clearance is just enough to make an annoying noise while vibrating
12:39 PM roycroft: a slight interference fit would be best
12:39 PM roycroft: but a perfect fit would be fine
12:39 PM roycroft: of course, the steel is not going to be a consistent 0.120" off the rollers
12:39 PM roycroft: but it should be pretty close
12:40 PM roycroft: maybe if i use hot rolled steel there will be 0.005" of scale :)
12:40 PM djdelorie: 3mm end mill?
12:40 PM roycroft: it just seems like 0.120" would be more common than it is
12:41 PM gregcnc: .120", not .118"?
12:41 PM roycroft: 3mm might be fine
12:41 PM roycroft: wire brush the scale off and i'd be left with a slight interference fit
01:17 PM Tom_L: roycroft, just have a .125 reground if you need one for a slot
01:20 PM JT-Shop: roycroft: just use a 3/16" end mill
01:21 PM Tom_L: that would be kinda big
01:22 PM roycroft: yes, it would be way to big
01:22 PM Tom_L: i bet you could run a hone over one and make it work fine
01:22 PM roycroft: yeah i could probably "shave" one down
01:22 PM gregcnc: dremel
01:23 PM roycroft: i'll make a sample with the 0.125" as is to see how it goes
01:23 PM roycroft: 0.005" isn't all that much clearance
01:23 PM roycroft: i could probably squirt some silicone caulking in the slots too
01:23 PM roycroft: all want to do is eliminate vibration
01:24 PM * roycroft dislikes unnecessary noise
01:25 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, what's a good linux version to run preempt on?
01:27 PM JT-Shop: what do you mean?
01:27 PM Tom_L: well i've never set one up with preempt
01:27 PM Tom_L: just wondered the best place to start or version to use
01:27 PM roycroft: all modern debian distributions work fine with preempt afaik
01:27 PM Tom_L: i think wheezy may be getting a little too dated to use
01:27 PM JT-Shop: normally you use the uspace LinuxCNC
01:28 PM Tom_L: i know nothing about that
01:28 PM JT-Shop: uspace is the reason you usually want preempt
01:28 PM Tom_L: ethernet
01:29 PM JT-Shop: yep for ethernet card you need preempt and uspace
01:29 PM roycroft: i built a preempt kernel on jessie shortly after jessie came out, but since my cnc project is on hold i haven't upgraded that to stretch yet
01:29 PM roycroft: i agree about not running wheezy these days
01:30 PM roycroft: it's well past its prime
01:30 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/jvDN76Pq7Z/
01:30 PM JT-Shop: step by step for debian 9
01:36 PM hazzy-dev: Best thing since sliced bread: http://www.linuxcnc.org/testing-stretch-rtpreempt/
01:38 PM JT-Shop: what desktop?
01:39 PM Tom_L: umm i can't remember the one i like now, i'd have to look
01:40 PM Tom_L: probably doesn't matter too much
01:40 PM Tom_L: is stretch 9?
01:41 PM JT-Shop: no
01:41 PM Tom_L: would wheezy work?
01:41 PM Tom_L: i know it's old
01:41 PM JT-Shop: sure
01:42 PM Tom_L: but that's likely all that will be on it
01:42 PM JT-Shop: that's what you get with the offical install instructions in the manual
01:42 PM Tom_L: it'll likely be a while, i gotta find a box for a mb first then move a few things around
01:45 PM roycroft: my recommendation is generally to use the latest version that is stable, as that usually allows one to wait longer in the future to upgrade
01:45 PM roycroft: wheezy is getting pretty darn old
01:46 PM Tom_L: it still works to cut metal
01:46 PM roycroft: yes
01:46 PM roycroft: and some day a version of linuxcnc will come out that does not work properly on wheezy
01:46 PM Tom_L: then i'll be concerned
01:46 PM roycroft: that version may have features/bug fixes/enhanced performane that makes you want to upgrade
01:47 PM Tom_L: i may be running 8 on that one anyway
01:47 PM roycroft: well it's up to you, of course
01:47 PM roycroft: my point is that if you use jessie/stretch now you might not have to make that decision for a long time
01:47 PM Tom_L: they change so often it's really hard to say what i've got on it now
01:47 PM roycroft: and building a preempt kernel is about as much work on any of the distros
01:50 PM Tom_L: how do you tell which one you have?
01:50 PM Tom_L: i know what i've got now but there must be a way to tell
01:58 PM JT-Shop: I'm still running Ubuntu 10.04 on 4 machines and they run fine
01:59 PM Tom_L: preempt on any?
01:59 PM Tom_L: i was running 10.04 but i'm not sure if i updated it or not
02:00 PM JT-Shop: no, only RTAI
02:00 PM Tom_L: i think it's some debian flavor now
02:00 PM Tom_L: i remember griping about the desktop...
02:00 PM JT-Shop: I've built preempt for ubuntu based linux mint
02:01 PM JT-Shop: what I pasted is so easy now you can pick the desktop you like and just add preempt from the synaptic package manager lol
02:02 PM Tom_L: they don't have an iso loaded with preempt do they?
02:02 PM Tom_L: i don't think so...
02:02 PM JT-Shop: yea
02:02 PM francisco is now known as Guest72409
02:03 PM JT-Shop: http://www.linuxcnc.org/testing-stretch-rtpreempt/
02:03 PM Tom_L: yeah i've got that opened but wasn't looking.. being distracted
02:04 PM Tom_L: do i want a different iso if i'm not using amd?
02:05 PM enleth: 'amd64' is really 'any 64bit x86'
02:05 PM enleth: it's been like that for the last 20 years just because AMD was the first to create a 64bit x86 CPU
02:06 PM Tom_L: take that intel..
02:06 PM enleth: distros either use that or x86_64 depending on whoever's doing the decision making
02:07 PM Tom_L: i might even have a ssd with preempt set up already
02:08 PM Tom_L: i know i looked at it at one time
02:19 PM gloops: thats a bit crozzled now https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29683097_904532936368087_2192136887988562997_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=bc5a934b91dbf90f4bc389423b7c4712&oe=5B64B7CC
02:27 PM gloops: cutting acrylic with laser, something i never thought of as well with lasers - motor coupling slips - laser keeps burning same spot
02:28 PM gloops: or psu for motors gives up
02:33 PM miss0r: Looks... toasty
02:36 PM gloops: lol, says he didnt notice anything - i think you would have noticed the smoke from that, if youd been in the same room
02:37 PM sync: if he had an exhaust fan, maybe not
02:39 PM gloops: hmm yeah never thought of that, he did say he had alarm, didnt go off
03:32 PM hazzy-dev: Anybody else getting a 500 error with youtube?
03:34 PM gloops: im not
03:34 PM Tom_L: nope
03:35 PM hazzy-dev: Ok thank, must be local then
03:36 PM hazzy-dev: I have gotten 500 error before from youtube, but they usual resolve in a few minutes, this has been going on for a while now
03:39 PM Tom_L: u forgot to pay your utube bill
03:43 PM gloops: hmm i have actually
03:44 PM gloops: i mean got an error, but straight back
03:44 PM gloops: 500 Internal Server Error
03:44 PM gloops: Sorry, something went wrong.
03:44 PM gloops: A team of highly trained monkeys has been dispatched to deal with this situation.
03:44 PM gloops: If you see them, send them this information as text (screenshots frighten them):
03:45 PM gloops: so im hacked or youtube is
03:45 PM gloops: or lingering april fool thing
03:46 PM Tom_L: due to easter, april fools comes on the 2nd
03:47 PM gloops: most vids are working, jst not the one i want to watch haha
03:47 PM phaxx: probably hosted on DigitalOcean's broken Ceph cluster.
03:47 PM Tom_L: mind control. they're feeding you what they want not what you choose
03:48 PM gloops: cant get on favourites etc
03:55 PM gloops: ok the only favourite i want to look at, i guess its the russians
04:00 PM gloops: or could be aliens, they probably detected rapid technological advances in my garage and fear im about to make a breakthrough that would take mankind to an advanced state
04:00 PM gloops: so they cut off my supply of tutorials
04:03 PM Deejay: gn8
04:04 PM hazzy-dev: gloops: It seems to be related to user specific pages, like liked videos and upload page, very frustrating
04:04 PM gloops: yes, mines back now
04:06 PM hazzy-dev: Great, still no good here, but works OK on my phone, I just hate not having a keyboard :)
04:09 PM gloops: well, the thing is, my train of thought is interrupted now
04:13 PM hazzy-dev: Ok, finally got a vid uploaded using my phone: https://youtu.be/d6fcO6h50Uk
04:13 PM hazzy-dev: My compressor motor won't start reliably, it starts fine when the rotor is in certain positions, but not at all in other positions (see video)
04:13 PM hazzy-dev: I have never experienced this type of failure with an induction motor, and I am at a complete loss
04:13 PM hazzy-dev: Pretty sure it is not a open/shorted winding, as they all read about 0.8 ohms, which seems about right
04:13 PM hazzy-dev: Don't think its the caps, as I have changed them, and it has good starting torque on the occasions it does start
04:13 PM hazzy-dev: Any ideas?
04:14 PM Tom_L: bad spot in armature?
04:15 PM hazzy-dev: You mean the rotor?
04:15 PM hazzy-dev: Could be
04:15 PM hazzy-dev: But that is cast aluminum, so seems unlikely
04:15 PM Tom_L: no motor whiz here
04:16 PM JT-Shop: I had a motor problem on my table saw I thought... was mismatched pulleys and belt. It is a used saw
04:16 PM Tom_L: murphy: in the event that you happen to overlook something that will be what's wrong after you have exhausted everything else and pulled your head bald
04:17 PM hazzy-dev: Tom_L: It is uncanny how that happens, it will probably turn out to be a bad extension cord or something of the sort :)
04:18 PM JT-Shop: can you check voltage drop during start up at the motor?
04:19 PM hazzy-dev: JT-Shop: Yes, when it does start the voltage drop is very low, but then it does not start it pulls a huge amount of current and voltage drops
04:20 PM hazzy-dev: In locked rotor is should draw low current, not high current, right? That is what is puzzling me
04:20 PM JT-Shop: strange
04:22 PM gloops: is it only one angle it will start at? or any angle so long as its turned a bit
04:24 PM hazzy-dev: it does not seem like there is any way to predict where it will start, sometimes I have to rotate the rotor several times to get it to a point it will start at, and it is not the same each time
04:25 PM JT-Shop: is it 240v?
04:25 PM hazzy-dev: If I give it a good spinning start it will actually come to a stop when a turn the power on, which is really odd
04:25 PM hazzy-dev: 120v not, but it is a dual voltage
04:25 PM hazzy-dev: now*
04:26 PM JT-Shop: you might have a loose neutral somewhere on the circuit
04:29 PM hazzy-dev: I have taken it completely apart and checked all the connections twice, and every thing checks out with a multi meter, so I don't think it is a loose connection, but I guess it could be a break in one of the windings
04:32 PM JT-Shop: I mean in the house wiring
04:35 PM hazzy-dev: The problem existed at my brother's shop too, so I think I have eliminated external causes
04:36 PM hazzy-dev: Oh well, probably should just put a new motor on it. I have plenty but the mounting its odd
04:37 PM gregcnc: what is that starter mechanism like in that motor?
04:39 PM gloops: no centrifugal switch in those i dont suppose
04:41 PM hazzy-dev: Yes, it does have a centrifugal switch, but that seems to be working fine
05:08 PM JT-Shop: hazzy-dev: http://www.fluke.com/fluke/uses/comunidad/fluke-news-plus/articlecategories/motors-drives-pumps-compressors/single-phasemotors
05:16 PM Tom_L: should be getting my power meter one of these days
05:17 PM Tom_L: kind wondering where to wire it in at
05:18 PM Tom_L: probably the center of the fwd rev relays
05:18 PM Tom_L: ... where the power comes in to them
05:21 PM Tom_L: https://tinyurl.com/ycvthoqo
05:22 PM Tom_L: wonder how it handles spikes when the motor is stopped
05:25 PM enleth: have you ever tried designing a cardboard box in a CAD?
05:25 PM Tom_L: no but if i did i'd use the sheetmetal tools
05:26 PM enleth: I have a need to design a small but somewhat unusual box and I was thinking exactly that - sheet metal features are probably the way to go
05:27 PM enleth: that requires figuring out what the correct bend radii etc. are for cardboard
05:27 PM Tom_L: the bends won't quite be the same since cardboard uses crushed bends
05:28 PM Tom_itx: https://forum.solidworks.com/thread/13798
05:30 PM Tom_itx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st8qq-xqkN4
05:31 PM Tom_itx: http://www.packmage.com/Cad
05:31 PM Tom_L: i'd probably give that at whirl first
05:36 PM Tom_L: enleth are you gonna have them made?
05:36 PM Tom_itx: http://www.packmage.com/Home/Design
05:42 PM enleth: Tom_L: yes, on a die cutting machine
05:42 PM enleth: but I need to make a prototype or two before I order a die
05:42 PM enleth: kinda hard to make adjustments afterwards
05:43 PM enleth: the box is small enough that the unfolded pattern should fit on the laser cutter for a prototype
05:44 PM enleth: I can crease it with a piece of wood and a mallet after lasercutting and fold it to see if it works
05:44 PM enleth: then order the die and have a batch made knowing that it's actually going to be what I want
05:47 PM enleth: "Note: If your computer does not have a D disk, try this package. And do not install in C disk(the system Disk), please."
05:47 PM Tom_L: saw that
05:48 PM Tom_L: maybe they put the data on d
05:48 PM enleth: if the whole thing is as well made as the installer or whatever part causes that, it must be a real piece of shite
05:49 PM enleth: "developers" who do things like that were exactly what drove me off of Windows years ago and nothing really changed
07:37 PM CaptHindsight: IRC @ dialup speeds today :( Fing Comcast
07:45 PM BeachBumPete: damn
07:46 PM Tom_L: what's up?
07:47 PM BeachBumPete: me?
07:47 PM CaptHindsight: the contractor running ATT fiber hit the Comcast cable and broke it...
07:47 PM BeachBumPete: dial up speeds=bummer
07:48 PM CaptHindsight: Comcast ran a new cable but didn't check with anyone in the building to see if service was back up
07:48 PM CaptHindsight: lazy
07:49 PM CaptHindsight: if they ran the fire department the firehouse would probably burn down
07:50 PM CaptHindsight: if you Comcast srvice has issues just complain until somebody comes out
07:50 PM CaptHindsight: otherwise they don't do anything
07:51 PM CaptHindsight: magic troubleshooting over the phone
07:52 PM ve7it: anybody built linuxcnc for arch linux? for the first time I am running into issues building sim package
07:52 PM ve7it: File "src/po/fixpaths.py", line 19
07:52 PM ve7it: print quote(os.path.normpath(fn))
07:52 PM ve7it: SyntaxError: invalid syntax
07:52 PM CaptHindsight: the guy down the hall used to build for Arch all the time
07:53 PM CaptHindsight: Arch vs Debian filenames and location issues?
07:54 PM ve7it: yea... I did have it running, but I think it may be python 2 vs 3 issues
07:56 PM CaptHindsight: he said you are correct
07:56 PM ve7it: cool... have always built from git sources.... but I just check the package manager and it seems ther is a linuxcncsim build for arch... trying it now
07:59 PM BeachBumPete: any of you guys try that 3DF Zephyr free?
07:59 PM CaptHindsight: what is it?
08:00 PM BeachBumPete: its a program that lets you input point cloud information and use it to slice and configure the results etc.
08:00 PM BeachBumPete: it also does photogrammography I think it is called
08:00 PM BeachBumPete: IE take many photos of an object from varying angles and stitch it together into a 3d model
08:01 PM CaptHindsight: used Mesahlab for that
08:04 PM BeachBumPete: hmm
08:04 PM BeachBumPete: this is supposed to be one of the better programs but I am new to this. Gotta look at meshlab
08:29 PM BeachBumPete: any of you guys do a lot of traveling for work that is NOT a salaried individual?
08:30 PM Rab: Yeah, what is your question?
08:30 PM BeachBumPete: well I just returned from a weeks long trip and we are trying to figure out how many hours to pay me LOL
08:31 PM BeachBumPete: because even tho I was gone the entire time essentially working I don't expect to get paid for sleeping in a hotel room. but not sure what is really fair and apparently neither is my employer hehe
08:31 PM Rab: You have to keep good track of that, every single day. I find by about the third day in the field, I have no idea what the hell I did.
08:31 PM BeachBumPete: well I know pretty much exactly what I did
08:32 PM BeachBumPete: just not sure what part of it could be called work and what was off time etc.
08:33 PM BeachBumPete: whats funny is in four days of traveling I only actually WORKED for like 6 hours or so
08:33 PM Rab: If you are ready for scheduled work, but external circumstances keep you from working, I count that as billable time.
08:33 PM Rab: Like, if you're supposed to meet somebody at a job site and they don't show up for three hours, that is definitely on the clock.
08:33 PM BeachBumPete: the rest was flying, catching cabs, busses, driving to locations finding hotels, etc etc
08:34 PM Rab: If the flight is delayed and you're sitting in the airport for 7 hours, that is definitely on the clock.
08:34 PM BeachBumPete: I only actually slept or like 15 hours the whole four days plus
08:34 PM BeachBumPete: I sat in the airport for 8.5 hours once a couple one and a half hour times too
08:34 PM jdh: you get paid from portal to portal.
08:35 PM Rab: If it's raining and work for the day is cancelled and I'm chilling in the hotel or finding the nearest movie theater, I don't put that on my timesheet.
08:35 PM BeachBumPete: personally I think something like, pay me my hourly rate for a typical work week, then add a few hours extra each day for the time I was running etc...
08:35 PM jdh: from your house to your hotel. from your hotel until your hotel, from your hotel to your homee
08:35 PM Rab: Yes, travel time is definitely work.
08:36 PM jdh: 8 hours sitting in the airport is work.
08:36 PM BeachBumPete: well aside from the 15 or so hours actually sleeping in the hotels yeah I was running the entire time that I was not actually inspecting the machines
08:36 PM BeachBumPete: yeah it was MOSTLY traveling time
08:36 PM BeachBumPete: 8 flights in four days
08:37 PM Rab: Many employers with field personnel, the HR department will have rules for what does and doesn't constitute work. It sounds like your situation is a little more informal.
08:37 PM BeachBumPete: taxis busses, rental car driving 2.5 hours back and forth etc.
08:37 PM BeachBumPete: it is quite informal
08:37 PM Rab: All work. Do you get a per diem?
08:37 PM BeachBumPete: and honestly I am not wanting to be greedy here
08:37 PM jdh: it is work
08:37 PM jdh: that's what you get paid for
08:37 PM BeachBumPete: no per diem technically but he did give me a couple hundred bucks for incidentals which included paying for taxis and some food
08:38 PM jdh: per diem doesn't cover taxis & travel costs
08:38 PM roycroft: yeah, you should expense all that stuff
08:38 PM Rab: My job does have a limit on continuous travel in a 24-hour period. I had to travel to New Zealand, a 30 hour flight, and they only wanted to pay for 8 hours...I was quite displeased. But we were able to work it out.
08:38 PM jdh: tell him "some guys on the interwebbes said to just be fucking professional"
08:40 PM BeachBumPete: yeah he is actually QUITE cool about pay and taking care of us
08:40 PM Rab: BeachBumPete, you would presumably not have been doing these things by yourself, just for fun. You must remember to be fair to yourself.
08:40 PM BeachBumPete: in fact when I had the 8.5 hour layover he offered to pay for the Delta SKyclub for me while I was there so I could relax. I declined it but he DID offer to pay for it.
08:40 PM enleth: BeachBumPete: "I asked a bunch of other people working in the field and they told me this and this is normal where they work" is how I phrased this when I had to and didn't want to sound greedy - not my fault that the whole industry expects to be paid adequately
08:41 PM BeachBumPete: enleth I agree. In fact I may just print this conversation ;)
08:41 PM roycroft: if a person travels for work and it actually costs the person money to do so, i.e. more out of pocket then staying home and buying groceries, etc. then the person has no incentive to do the traveling
08:41 PM roycroft: it
08:41 PM BeachBumPete: I left early tuesday morning flight was at 7AM I did not return until just after midnight Friday night
08:42 PM BeachBumPete: in that time I stayed in three hotels
08:42 PM jdh: BeachBumPete: https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/wh1312.pdf
08:42 PM BeachBumPete: the first one I slept for like 5.5 hours, the next one was like 4.5 hours and the last one was like 7.5 hours
08:42 PM roycroft: is already a sacrifice to be out of town and not in control of one's time for 16 hours out of the day
08:43 PM roycroft: besides the 8 hours that already belong to work, that is
08:43 PM BeachBumPete: I agree my view is that if I am not getting home at a normal time and I am not with my home and family because of work then THAT IS works
08:43 PM roycroft: and i'm not saying that they need to pay you 3x your salary if you're out of town vs at work
08:43 PM roycroft: but you should get your salary and all your expenses, including meals, tips, and transit, paid
08:44 PM roycroft: and hotels, of course
08:44 PM enleth: BeachBumPete: also you might want to trade some of that time for extra (possibly off the record) vacation time, if it turns out that your boss genuinely wants to compensate you somehow for all that time you weren't in control of even when you weren't directly performing your duties, but doesn't have the funds to shovel money at you
08:44 PM enleth: BeachBumPete: this could be a good solution for both of you
08:44 PM roycroft: when i traveled for work at my previous job my employer was fairly understanding
08:45 PM roycroft: i was usually able to arrange to stay an extra day (at my expense) if i had to go somewhere interesting and wanted a little downtime
08:45 PM roycroft: so i could do a little sightseeing, etc.
08:45 PM roycroft: i got all my meals expensed
08:45 PM roycroft: but i was reasonable about them
08:45 PM Rab: enleth, yesss, I have the option to take time-and-a-half overtime as comp time, and it's great.
08:46 PM roycroft: i attended a conference in boston once, for example
08:46 PM roycroft: and i really wanted to eat well there, because there are so many awesome restaurants
08:46 PM roycroft: so i went to fancy, expensive restaurants every night
08:46 PM Rab: Would rather just take a week off following a trip in many cases.
08:46 PM roycroft: when i got back i turned in my expenses
08:46 PM BeachBumPete: if that is correct I basically worked like 72 hours in four days
08:46 PM roycroft: and told my boss "i'm only turning in half of my meals, because i went to some pretty expensive restaurants"
08:46 PM roycroft: he was fine with that
08:47 PM roycroft: we both thought it fair
08:47 PM BeachBumPete: actual time elapsed minus sleeping time
08:47 PM BeachBumPete: I actually did not eat at any expensive restaurants
08:47 PM BeachBumPete: but even a burger in the airport was like $14
08:47 PM roycroft: yeah, and you should expense all of that
08:47 PM roycroft: it's only fair
08:47 PM BeachBumPete: I did
08:48 PM BeachBumPete: but like I said he basically already paid for that stuff
08:48 PM roycroft: i also never stayed in really fancy hotels, save a few times when i was at conferences and the conference venue was a fancy hotel
08:48 PM roycroft: but i also never stay at a motel 6
08:48 PM enleth: BeachBumPete: when I had a continuous 25h trip (get to the airport, fly 2500km with two switchovers to get to a city that's 650km away in a straight line, commute, deal with the customer for a couple hours, commute back to the airport, fly 2500km again, get back home), I just told my boss that he'll pretend I'm at the office the following two days and I'll pretend it didn't take 25h straight
08:48 PM BeachBumPete: I booked the hotels myself most were around a hundred a night one was like 60
08:49 PM roycroft: comfort inn/holiday inn kinds of places were where i usually stayed
08:49 PM roycroft: it all depends on where you're going too
08:49 PM jdh: hotels suck. eating out all the time sucks.
08:49 PM roycroft: if i were to travel to bend i'd book a $100 hotel
08:49 PM BeachBumPete: yeah hampton in, the shilo inn in bend oregon, and the howard johnson in portland.
08:49 PM roycroft: in san francisco i would not be able to find a cardboard box to sleep in for $100/night
08:50 PM Rab: Any hotel that doesn't have bedbugs is great. Any hotel can have bedbugs.
08:50 PM BeachBumPete: bend shilo in was like $115
08:50 PM BeachBumPete: Hojo was the 65
08:50 PM enleth: BeachBumPete: BTW, this is what happens when you buy plane tickets a day before the trip. the company paid $6000. when I saw the tickets, I almost told them "refund them and give me that $6000, I'll get there on foot in time for that much"
08:50 PM roycroft: the best part of any trip is going home
08:50 PM BeachBumPete: Hampton inn in Fredrickstown MO was $115 and by far the nicest of the three
08:51 PM BeachBumPete: I was VERY happy to be home LOL
08:51 PM roycroft: even when i have a great trip and i love every minute of it
08:51 PM roycroft: the part that is best is when i open my front door and toss my bags in the living room
08:52 PM BeachBumPete: agreed
08:53 PM BeachBumPete: I need to figure out how to print this convo in icechat9.16 ;)
08:54 PM enleth: roycroft: it's even better when you hate traveling in general, because of all the wasted time
08:54 PM BeachBumPete: honestly after this trip I hate flying man it just sucks now
08:56 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest73011
08:56 PM enleth: I haven't had to travel anywhere in the last 1.5 years at the current job and I'm happy about it, especially after a week long trip to Vegas
08:57 PM enleth: at least I'm jetlag-proof when traveling to the US, I pretty much live in the EDT time zone anyway
08:58 PM enleth: but the transatlantic flight itself is horrible even without the jetlag
08:59 PM enleth: especially with a switchover on both ends
08:59 PM enleth: double suck points if one is Heathrow terminal #2
09:00 PM Rab: Heathrow and Gatwick, the twin armpits of the universe.
09:02 PM enleth: terminal 5 is actually fine
09:02 PM Tom_L: rule of thumb... never stay at a hotel with a number in it :)
09:02 PM jdh: Four Seasons
09:02 PM enleth: but terminal 2 is a bloody mess
09:03 PM enleth: it's U-shaped, arrival and departure gates are on separate legs
09:05 PM BeachBumPete: That shilo hotel actually looked quite nice but the room was dated and worn. Comfortable tho
09:05 PM enleth: to get from one to the other, you have to use five separate sets of stairs, three up, two down, make a complete U-turn and backtrack twice, and exit the arrivals security area, then go through security at departures again
09:06 PM Tom_L: try houston some time
09:06 PM enleth: the signage along the way is a fucking joke
09:06 PM BeachBumPete: Atlanta is crazy
09:06 PM enleth: can't be crazier than Heathrow 2
09:06 PM BeachBumPete: you actually ride a subway between concourses
09:06 PM enleth: impossible
09:06 PM Tom_L: atlanta is a kake walk compared to houston
09:06 PM enleth: BeachBumPete: that's perfect
09:06 PM BeachBumPete: I been thru houston, denver is interesting
09:07 PM enleth: did I mention that you have to run the entire way between those two ends of that terminal?
09:07 PM BeachBumPete: I ran in Atlanta and STILL missed the flight LOL
09:07 PM Tom_L: at least atlanta keeps the same companies together instead of clear across the concourse
09:07 PM enleth: no shuttle, no moving walkways, nothing
09:07 PM BeachBumPete: apparently not LOL
09:08 PM BeachBumPete: my Delta flight got off on D concourse and took off from A concourse
09:08 PM Tom_L: i was stuck in atlanta 10 hrs once though
09:08 PM Tom_L: rude bunch there
09:14 PM roycroft: i think i have solved my tooling problem
09:15 PM BeachBumPete: the only tooling problem is needing more tooling ;)
09:15 PM roycroft: i cut a groove with a 1/8" end mill and fitted a piece of 0.120" steel into it
09:15 PM roycroft: it wiggled more than i wanted it to
09:15 PM roycroft: i tried a couple more pieces and they wiggled as well
09:15 PM BeachBumPete: makes sense
09:15 PM roycroft: then i grabbed a painted piece, and it barely wiggled
09:15 PM roycroft: i was going to blue these brackets, because i like bluing
09:15 PM roycroft: but i think maybe i'll paint them instead
09:15 PM BeachBumPete: .125 endmill, plus runout= excess gap on .120
09:16 PM roycroft: i was lamenting earlier today that it's hard to find 0.120" end mills
09:17 PM BeachBumPete: 3mm is like .118 or so
09:17 PM roycroft: which i thought odd, since 11ga steel is very common and is nominally 0.120" thick
09:17 PM roycroft: yeah, someone suggested that
09:17 PM roycroft: it would give me a slight interference fit
09:17 PM BeachBumPete: not if you run two passes offset a touch
09:20 PM roycroft: yeah, but a slight interference fit would be ok, if it's not too tight
09:20 PM roycroft: we had this problem years ago in the woodworking industry
09:20 PM enleth: probably no one makes .120" *because* 3mm is so close
09:20 PM BeachBumPete: interference is usually .001
09:20 PM roycroft: the plywood mills figured out that if they make their sheet goods 1/32" undersize they could make more money
09:20 PM roycroft: so they did
09:21 PM enleth: if there are no other reasons to than sheet metal
09:21 PM roycroft: now my 3/4" plywood is only 23/32" thick
09:21 PM roycroft: and my 3/4" router bit is too big
09:21 PM BeachBumPete: they actually make bits for that
09:21 PM Tom_L: just add water :)
09:21 PM roycroft: the router bit manufacturers figured out that they could make more money by making both actual size and nominal size bits
09:21 PM enleth: roycroft: aren't 2x4s also not really 2x4, and so on?
09:22 PM roycroft: yeah, but that's kind of a different issue
09:22 PM roycroft: nobody has a 2" router bit that they expect to use in one pass to make a dado for a 2x4
09:23 PM enleth: unless ABOM79 decides to take on woodworking
09:23 PM roycroft: that guy is kind of nuts
09:23 PM roycroft: and not always in a good way
09:24 PM enleth: why so?
09:24 PM roycroft: sometimes he relies too much on vigor and brawn
09:25 PM roycroft: i can't say i've seen much or anything he's done that is really scary though
09:25 PM enleth: interesting, I've watched literally everything he posted on YT and I can't recall anything to that description
09:25 PM roycroft: unlike some other videros
09:25 PM roycroft: videos
09:26 PM enleth: you sure we're talking the same guy?
09:26 PM roycroft: yeah, i know who he is
09:26 PM roycroft: bald/shaved head, kind of husky
09:26 PM roycroft: likes to go big :)
09:26 PM enleth: if anything, I'd call him quite reserved and cautious
09:27 PM roycroft: i'm trying to remember specific things he's done that gaver me that impression
09:27 PM roycroft: but i can't offhand
09:27 PM roycroft: i haven't watched his videos in a long time though
09:27 PM roycroft: i don't think he's reckless
09:28 PM enleth: I mean, if you do half-ton parts to single-thousandth tolerances and want to keep your job, you can't exactly rush it and do stupid mistakes
09:28 PM roycroft: perhaps it's that he used bigger machines and makes bigger parts than i'm used to
09:29 PM enleth: could be
09:29 PM enleth: he's certainly very comfortable around things several times his weight spinning very fast
09:29 PM roycroft: there's a guy who does woodworking videos on youtube who uses a giant shaper to make tiny parts
09:30 PM roycroft: that stuff seems kind of nuts to me too
09:30 PM enleth: but I definitely wouldn't call him reckless
09:30 PM enleth: besides, he uses giant machines to do giant parts, so it's kinda justified
09:30 PM roycroft: he was making tiny finger joints using a 12" diameter cutter in one i was watching recently
09:31 PM enleth: I mean, it's hard to re-bore bearing sockets on a gearbox housing the size of a small car without an HBM the size of a big truck
09:32 PM roycroft: abom79 did a video that convinced me to get noga indicator holders instead of the cheap asian imports
09:32 PM roycroft: so he has cost me money
09:32 PM roycroft: but the noga holders are awesome, so i don't hold that against him
09:33 PM enleth: and last I heard, his employer actually does get requests to the tune of "please remanufacture this gearbox/cylinder/axle/..., but I want Adam to do it, I'll pay extra and wait longer if required"
09:33 PM BeachBumPete: boga are great
09:33 PM BeachBumPete: noga lol
09:33 PM roycroft: they pay for themselves in no time
09:34 PM roycroft: with the asian imports you spend a lot of time figuring out where to put the base, and then mess around for a while positioning the indicator
09:35 PM roycroft: with noga you just slap the base down close to where you want it, hold the indicator where you need it, and turn the knob
09:35 PM roycroft: probably saves 30-45 seconds per setup, easily
09:35 PM roycroft: and that adds up
09:35 PM BeachBumPete: well actually the chinese make some just like em now
09:35 PM roycroft: they make some that look kind of like them
09:35 PM roycroft: have you used them?
09:36 PM roycroft: they are like using chinese telescoping gages
09:36 PM BeachBumPete: yeah one of the guys in that shop I worked in had two differnt sizes
09:36 PM roycroft: they look nice, but are pretty sticky and fiddly
09:36 PM BeachBumPete: they worked okay
09:36 PM BeachBumPete: not as smooth as the NOGA but not terrible either
09:37 PM roycroft: right
09:37 PM BeachBumPete: I still have the stick figure ones ;)
09:37 PM roycroft: i have some of those
09:37 PM roycroft: i tend not to get rid of tooling
09:37 PM roycroft: when i upgrade i keep the old stuff
09:38 PM BeachBumPete: I only get rid of it if I never use it
09:38 PM roycroft: unless it's broken
09:38 PM BeachBumPete: I still have some R8 holders LOL
09:38 PM roycroft: or i cut myself on it all the time
09:38 PM roycroft: which means it's broken by design
09:38 PM enleth: roycroft: you really got me thinking, actually my impression of Adam always was that he's almost a stereotypical example of a hulking bald guy who looks like a mean dangerous bruiser, but turns out to be extremely calm, gentle and levelheaded
09:39 PM roycroft: i'm not one to jump on stereotype bandwagons
09:39 PM roycroft: i am sure i did not get my impression of him because of his appearance
09:39 PM roycroft: i think it really may be the scale of the things he does more than anything else
09:40 PM roycroft: as i said, i don't think he's reckless, nor do i think i ever saw him do anything really scary
09:40 PM enleth: inasmuch as working on parts that size can be called "not scary"
09:40 PM roycroft: i guess it makes sense that when you're working on big parts a bit of brawn is required to move them around :)
09:41 PM enleth: well, "ABOM torque" did enter the local vernacular of YT machinists
09:41 PM roycroft: i think i remember a video where he was removing a bearing from a giant shaft and there was a lot of sledgehammer and rosebud work involved
09:41 PM roycroft: so perhaps that kind of thing is what left me with the impression i have
09:42 PM enleth: probably couldn't fit the thing under their biggest press and the bearing was fucked already
09:42 PM enleth: I think I remember that video
09:43 PM roycroft: i think he suspended the shaft in the middle of a big room with a hoist and chain
09:43 PM enleth: yeah, that one
09:43 PM roycroft: and had a helper who did some of the thwapping
09:43 PM roycroft: "heat that sucker up and beat the crap out of it"
09:44 PM enleth: almost sure that bearing was dead on arrival and the journal on that shaft was going to be turned and sleeved
09:44 PM roycroft: and i'll conceded that some of that may have been for dramatic effect
09:44 PM roycroft: concede
09:44 PM enleth: no point in being gentle
09:44 PM roycroft: well anyway, i don't think i was being critical of him
09:45 PM enleth: IIRC, he later made two more of that shaft anyway because the customer wanted to have spares
09:45 PM roycroft: although i did say "not always in a good way" about his being nuts
09:45 PM BeachBumPete: Gawd I miss my manual lathe
09:46 PM roycroft: my impression of him generally is that he's a very skilled and competent machinist, but sometimes approaches a problem with a more than ample amount of vigor
09:46 PM jdh: BeachBumPete: want my Jet 9x20
09:46 PM roycroft: again, that may be mostly do to my not having experience with the scale of things he does
09:47 PM BeachBumPete: get er dun
09:47 PM BeachBumPete: jdh no LOL
09:47 PM roycroft: and also may be in part due to the "dramatic effect"
09:47 PM jdh: well. that makes 2 of os so far
09:47 PM BeachBumPete: I do miss my old 12x36
09:47 PM roycroft: abom79 is aware that he's in front of a lens
09:47 PM roycroft: i need to get back to working on my 12x36
09:48 PM roycroft: i've used it a fair amount over the past year, but it still needs some tuning up, and i never did finish fitting the 4 jaw to it
09:48 PM BeachBumPete: naah just donate it to my favorite charity
09:48 PM roycroft: i almost bought one from bend
09:48 PM roycroft: i was the second person to inquire
09:48 PM roycroft: and the first was flaky and missed two appointments to look at it
09:49 PM roycroft: i actually scheduled a time to go over the mountains and check it out, but got a call right before i left informing me that the first person finally showed up and got it
09:49 PM BeachBumPete: baah
09:49 PM roycroft: then this one went up for sale, and it was only a half hour from here
09:50 PM roycroft: i think at 12x36 is the perfect size for a home shop
09:51 PM roycroft: the only thing i don't like about it is the threaded spindle, but i don't ever run it backwards, so it's not been an issue
09:51 PM BeachBumPete: I would prefer a 14x40 but yeah I was quite pleased with my old 12x36
09:52 PM roycroft: i would rarely, if ever, need the capacity of a 14x40, but the extra mass would be nice
09:52 PM BeachBumPete: exactly
09:52 PM BeachBumPete: my lathe was a D1-4 spindle
09:55 PM BeachBumPete: is there a current IRC log online somewhere I can print from
09:55 PM roycroft: someone here posts one every day
09:56 PM roycroft: but i don't know that it's available in real time
09:59 PM BeachBumPete: shit I thought there was one somewhere
10:02 PM roycroft: i'm thinking it's tom_l who posts the daily log
10:06 PM Tom_L: there
10:07 PM Tom_L: or
10:07 PM Tom_L: if you want others
10:10 PM BeachBumPete: neat
10:10 PM BeachBumPete: thx
10:10 PM BeachBumPete: printin
10:13 PM BeachBumPete: well Gn8 folks
10:13 PM Tom_L: later
10:14 PM BeachBumPete: :)
10:30 PM ve7it: just an update... on arch linux, was having issues building linuxcnc from git... then found that the arch package manager found linuxcnc and built and installed 2.7.12 sim with no issues
10:49 PM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil