#linuxcnc Logs
Apr 01 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:22 AM Xnke: Hello, folks
12:26 AM XXCoder: hey
12:26 AM Xnke: Been looking at the Mesa control cards, they seem decent enough
12:26 AM Xnke: looking at the ethernet based cards, 7i93E or 7i77e? I think
12:26 AM XXCoder: definitely better than my BOB and 3 tb6600s
12:26 AM XXCoder: im not expert on mesa though, if you wait few hours jthornton will come in
12:26 AM Xnke: yeah
12:26 AM Xnke: I'm looking at the 7i96 card, it's ethernet, 5 axis step/dir, 11 inputs/6 outputs, plus high speed encoder for spindle sync
12:26 AM Xnke: so far seems the best value they have
12:26 AM XXCoder: does sound great
12:27 AM XXCoder: more than enough for basic engine. or even 5 axis
12:27 AM Xnke: 120 bucks, too-less costly than some of the other cards they sell that *seem* to do less
12:27 AM Xnke: http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=69_62&product_id=311
12:28 AM XXCoder: lol that is lousy picture
12:28 AM Xnke: yeah
12:28 AM XXCoder: way too much yellow
12:28 AM XXCoder: and bit overexposed
12:28 AM XXCoder: dark grey text on gray uggh
12:29 AM Xnke: I am tempted by the gecko G540 but I don't like the stepper drive heavy lifting done on the same board as the logic controller
12:30 AM Xnke: In my day job we specifically disallow that stuff, motor drives blow up. Logic controllers don't usually go out.
12:33 AM XXCoder: interesting
12:33 AM XXCoder: probably $500 drivers and logic boards though
12:33 AM Xnke: lol
12:33 AM Xnke: 2000$+++ logic boards
12:33 AM Xnke: MANY of them
12:34 AM Xnke: Allen-Bradley, aka Always Broke
12:34 AM XXCoder: lol I was way off on my wild guess
12:34 AM Xnke: the cheap drive is 1800, the expensive drive in my building is 2300$
12:34 AM XXCoder: so yeah $116 isnt too expensive
12:34 AM XXCoder: can buy 10 in price of fancy one
12:35 AM XXCoder: and I can buy 10 BOB and 30 TB6600s in price of one mesa lol
12:35 AM Xnke: the actual IO cards that do 16 points of IO are 2000$, roughly, and the MPU card is something stupid like 5800
12:35 AM Xnke: it's silly
12:44 AM CaptHindsight: yeah I have some heidehain controllers $5-10K
12:46 AM Xnke: The only question on the 7i96 board that I have now is if the RS-485 bus that's onboard can be used as general RS-485, or if it will only talk to MESA products
12:46 AM CaptHindsight: Xnke: what controller brands do you like?
12:47 AM CaptHindsight: any rs-485
12:47 AM Xnke: Personally I prefer the Siemens
12:47 AM CaptHindsight: it is just that Mesa has drivers and configs for Linuxcnc
12:48 AM Xnke: that's what I am looking at
12:49 AM Xnke: also the RS485 port means that a LOT of VFD's that could be used for spindle speed are drivable from the RS485 prot
12:49 AM Xnke: ort
12:49 AM Xnke: so no need to spend IO lines on the spindle speed-just send the commands
12:49 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NF8EFoPlrk Remotely controlling the Huanyang VFD with LinuxCNC over RS485 Modbus
12:54 AM Xnke: There are a few VFD's that I've used in the past that had internal position and home signal decoding, and sent those out via RS485 too, so it's possible that a LOT of control could be passed over RS-485
12:57 AM CaptHindsight: reprap meme https://youtu.be/v5Wjyyeuzks?t=34s for a few seconds
12:57 AM CaptHindsight: needs to be a gif
12:59 AM XXCoder: hopt glue gun indeed lol
01:01 AM CaptHindsight: wow a german with a sense of humor!
01:02 AM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/v5Wjyyeuzks?t=3m51s
01:02 AM XXCoder: its not bad for essentally only 3 rails
01:02 AM XXCoder: heyy hes reflowing!
01:05 AM CaptHindsight: my eyes got a bit teared up
01:06 AM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: has spring sprung there yet?
01:06 AM XXCoder: now hes converting it to mill then lase
01:06 AM XXCoder: yeah
01:06 AM XXCoder: it come month ago
01:06 AM CaptHindsight: 50's yesterday, down to the low teens tonight
01:06 AM CaptHindsight: snow later this week :)
01:06 AM CaptHindsight: this years winter won't die
01:07 AM XXCoder: that printer is apparently $300
01:07 AM XXCoder: or rather, "startibng at"
01:07 AM CaptHindsight: they ground the part number off the MCU
01:07 AM XXCoder: typically means crap, midlevel maybe $50 more, and $200 more for slight refinement
01:07 AM CaptHindsight: anticopycat protection
01:08 AM XXCoder: ah $399 for extended, taller
01:08 AM XXCoder: heater build plate is surpiosoing cheap
01:10 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
01:10 AM IchGucksLive: rain here in germany
01:10 AM XXCoder: yo
01:10 AM CaptHindsight: same here and snow later this week
01:11 AM IchGucksLive: Xnke, the vfd with references to the spindle pos are mainly to run lathe with treading option
01:11 AM CaptHindsight: IchGucksLive: have you seen a low cost sincos interpolator with 5V quad output lately?
01:12 AM Xnke: Yes, and for power tapping in the mill
01:12 AM Xnke: Rigid tapping, rather
01:12 AM IchGucksLive: CaptHindsight, ypouu can build your own on 10USD
01:12 AM CaptHindsight: http://us-shop.ichaus.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=iC%2DMR+QFN48%2D7x7+SAMPLE like this on a board
01:13 AM pink_vampire: hi
01:14 AM XXCoder: yo
01:17 AM XXCoder: IchGucksLive: what would he need to make one?
01:17 AM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: I can make one but I am looking for one
01:17 AM XXCoder: yeah less work im sure
01:18 AM XXCoder: porobably cost a whole lot more
01:18 AM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: ^^ link above
01:18 AM XXCoder: 87. thats cheapest you have found so far.
01:18 AM CaptHindsight: chips are ~$12 but it takes all day plus waiting for a pcb to be fabbed
01:18 AM XXCoder: you could use a cnc mill or router to make board?
01:19 AM CaptHindsight: not for this
01:19 AM CaptHindsight: too hacky for me
01:19 AM XXCoder: hmm
01:19 AM pink_vampire: http://www.instructables.com/id/Mini-Metal-Lathe-1/
01:20 AM XXCoder: lol pink thats similiar with my $27 lathe
01:20 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/50Pcs-SOP20-SSOP20-TSSOP20-0-65mm-1-27mm-zu-DIP20-2-54mm-PCB-Adapter-Konverter-/351871730602 and some 3d soldering
01:20 AM XXCoder: bit better, as it doesnt use drill chuck
01:20 AM CaptHindsight: to be extra hacky
01:20 AM pink_vampire: scroll to step 8
01:21 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder, CaptHindsight the pcb plan of a system http://mino-elektronik.de/bilder/st1207_iic/St07_iic.png
01:23 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder, here is the avr file http://mino-elektronik.de/mt12_iic/mt12_iic.htm
01:23 AM CaptHindsight: not fast enough
01:23 AM IchGucksLive: it gives the pos as a i2c signal
01:24 AM IchGucksLive: CaptHindsight, 80ns
01:24 AM XXCoder: pink_vampire: I have yet to try my el cheapo lathe lol
01:24 AM XXCoder: I need to
01:24 AM XXCoder: but no shop to try in :(
01:24 AM CaptHindsight: what is the sample rate and bits of the ADC's?
01:24 AM IchGucksLive: its a AIN
01:25 AM IchGucksLive: so 32mhz
01:25 AM CaptHindsight: 10-bit ADC
01:25 AM IchGucksLive: if you need faster the lm119
01:26 AM CaptHindsight: the chips I posted above are same price and higher speed and more res
01:26 AM CaptHindsight: maybe a stm32f
01:26 AM CaptHindsight: but why bother is they have ASIC's but I WANT A BOARD!!
01:28 AM CaptHindsight: 10-bit Resolution 0.5 LSB Integral Non-Linearity ±2 LSB Absolute Accuracy
01:28 AM CaptHindsight: 13 - 260μs Conversion Time Up to 76.9kSPS (Up to 15kSPS at Maximum Resolution)
01:28 AM IchGucksLive: CaptHindsight, i read the chip at less then the avr
01:28 AM CaptHindsight: wow slow
01:31 AM XXCoder: apparently I got contract to buld gold metal 3d printer
01:31 AM XXCoder: vacuum depostion but yeah
01:32 AM IchGucksLive: better to go for a ali ready made and modify the mashine
01:32 AM XXCoder: its not powder sindering, its vacuum deposting
01:32 AM IchGucksLive: https://de.aliexpress.com/item/360-600P-R-Photoelectric-Incremental-Rotary-Encoder-5-24V-AB-Two-Phases-Shaft/32756209569.html
01:33 AM XXCoder: is that encoder?
01:33 AM IchGucksLive: yes
01:33 AM IchGucksLive: 2400Pulsel per Rotation
01:34 AM CaptHindsight: IchGucksLive: I already a bunch of glass scales and heads https://www.ebay.com/p/HEIDENHAIN-AE-LS-603c/1426685227 similar
01:34 AM XXCoder: lol way faster than my 2 magnet encoder for my cnc spindle
01:34 AM XXCoder: 2 pulses per rot
01:35 AM IchGucksLive: CaptHindsight, i got the ls802
01:35 AM XXCoder: apparently they think magnet fields can be applied to shape gold as its being deposted in very fine layers
01:35 AM pink_vampire: i want to get bench top grinder
01:35 AM XXCoder: hours to make 1 mm thick
01:35 AM XXCoder: pink thats real cheap
01:35 AM CaptHindsight: IchGucksLive: I have several in various lengths and model #'s
01:35 AM IchGucksLive: CaptHindsight, it runs on my use
01:35 AM XXCoder: $120 maybe? and same time get belt one for half that
01:35 AM IchGucksLive: CaptHindsight, i made a eagle board
01:36 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: what brand is good?
01:36 AM CaptHindsight: IchGucksLive: Chinese versions are cheap https://de.aliexpress.com/store/product/Hxx-messwerkzeuge-1u-50-1000mm-linear-optical-herrscher-f-r-drehmaschine-schleifen-bohrer-m-hle-maschinen/109805_32675412908.html
01:36 AM XXCoder: dunno, bot HF has one.
01:39 AM CaptHindsight: maybe i should make a run of 20 sincos interpolators
01:39 AM IchGucksLive: i woudt buy 3
01:39 AM XXCoder: is that linear encoder?
01:40 AM IchGucksLive: im off bye
01:40 AM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: yes
01:40 AM XXCoder: 1k mm not bad. too big for my machine tho lol
01:40 AM CaptHindsight: glass scales, optical read head
01:41 AM CaptHindsight: it starts out as two sine waves 1v pp then you have to interpolate to get quadrature output %V
01:41 AM XXCoder: so need sin/cos thing to get real position?
01:42 AM CaptHindsight: http://openservodrive.com/sincos-encoder-support/
01:42 AM XXCoder: dang!
01:43 AM XXCoder: is it something new machines already do or is it new coming new tech?
01:43 AM CaptHindsight: old tech
01:44 AM CaptHindsight: most new linear encoders have the interpolater built in
01:44 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E28sK31W00g
01:45 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0iolmpzwbk
01:48 AM XXCoder: interesting
01:49 AM CaptHindsight: March 32nd, I'm off
01:49 AM XXCoder: lol later
01:49 AM XXCoder: I dropped that gold thing
01:49 AM XXCoder: dont seem usefu
02:12 AM Deejay: moin
02:37 AM holzjunkie: morgen
02:44 AM * Loetmichel will drive to the mother-in-laws new flat with 40kg of wall paint... new carpets/flooring is ordered for nest week... that'll be "fun" the next week to get her moved :-(
02:46 AM Loetmichel: +now
03:16 AM gloops: once more unto the breach dear friends, once more
03:17 AM XXCoder: once again into broaching eh
03:21 AM gloops: might have been cutting yesterday, i messed up the homing on z though, felt rough and just couldnt apply my brain to it
03:21 AM gloops: thinking id sort it this morning - but cat woke me up at six im not feeling my brightest now haha
03:23 AM XXCoder: get https://imgur.com/gallery/nca5S to keep your cat away. woof.
03:24 AM gloops: wife went to bathroom left door open, cat came upstairs, of course wife was snoring again and i had to get up to take it down
03:25 AM gloops: that looks evil XXCoder
03:25 AM XXCoder: woof!
03:25 AM XXCoder: husky eyes and I guess lab mouth
03:34 AM gloops: todays goal, skim base spars off, that will take the machine an hour or 2, from that point on i can start sorting stuff out, 2 hours to tidy up, sort tools out, get back to normal
04:12 AM gloops: hmm, joint 3 following error, no idea why yet
04:12 AM XXCoder: usualy means it detects it didnt move as commanded
04:14 AM XXCoder: your machine has encoders?
04:14 AM gloops: will drop velocity and acceleration some more, no no encoders
04:15 AM XXCoder: weird. how did it detect that it failed>?
04:15 AM gloops: i messed about with the homing and scale yesterday when not really thinking about it, cant get it back now, ill sort it in a bit im just warming up lol
04:16 AM gloops: i dont know how it does XXCoder, i guess the signal is too quick for a setting ive got, base period maybe
04:17 AM XXCoder: hmm maybe yeah maybe it couldnt generate signals fast enough so it generated follow error
04:17 AM gloops: it will know if the signal expected to generate is faster than base period can handle
04:18 AM gloops: x is the only axis with direct coupling, so lemme see, motor would need to turn twice as fast to run same velocity
04:18 AM gloops: ill cut that right down
04:19 AM gloops: z not x
04:19 AM rmu: gloops: there is ACCELERATION in TRAJ section and then you have per-axis accelerations. If the per-axis accelerations are lower than those in TRAJ section you will get following errors even without feedback
04:19 AM gloops: rmu lower? that would be ok wouldnt it?
04:20 AM gloops: i will compare z velocity to TRAJ velocity, the other axis are working fine though
04:20 AM rmu: gloops: i meant the maximum acceleration of the axis
04:21 AM gloops: right
04:21 AM rmu: if max allowed axis acceleration is lower than those in the trajectory section the planner will generate moves the axis can't follow
04:24 AM rmu: hmm. I was talking about STEPGEN_MAXACCEL.
04:26 AM gloops: ok thanks, yes that is ok
04:28 AM gloops: after homing latch, axis travels to HOME at max velocity for the axis, i think ive got that too high now, will return to it shortly, just bought a full length of flat bar from scrap man outside lol
04:29 AM gloops: it goes through home sequence ok, then when trying to reach HOME - joint following error
04:45 AM Loetmichel: ... arrived at mother-in-laws new flat. already dismantled all the baseboards, now to repair all the nail/screwholes and then paint the whole flat... 3 different colours :-)7
05:04 AM gloops: 3ft roller Loetmichel
05:05 AM XXCoder: cooking with a press https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRMlceJvk8s
05:21 AM Loetmichel: gloops: small flat, 52m^2... 1ft roller
05:30 AM rmu: gloops: could wrong sign in backoff-distance or smthg like that
05:37 AM gloops: ive sorted it thanks
05:38 AM gloops: first chips! just jogging cutter through a piece of pine, early days but the gantry seems completely indifferent to taking 4mm of pine off, seems absurd now the weight of it, think i might have over engineered..a bit, or a LOT
05:38 AM XXCoder: gloops: I once ran 1/16 carbide em though pine.
05:38 AM XXCoder: not cutting, just moving though
05:39 AM XXCoder: pine is weak as heck lol
05:39 AM XXCoder: I want https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLD4dFoXC7o :( but model is 10 bucks..
05:39 AM gloops: yeah no real test, even though it seems like cutting bread with a chainsaw lol
05:39 AM XXCoder: yeah
05:40 AM gloops: we will see what it does with some ally another time
05:40 AM XXCoder: what happened is that spindle control wires disconnected so spindle simply stopped
05:41 AM XXCoder: well night.
05:41 AM gloops: night
05:42 AM gloops: could make that model in blender, probably not bad price $10 though
05:43 AM gloops: ill knock a simple test g code up and do some air cutting, see if its doing as it should
05:46 AM gloops: one thing i have noticed in 2.8 - there is no option to job in set increments, like 1mm or 0.5mm, that was very useful
05:47 AM gloops: jog
05:51 AM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest51662
06:01 AM holzjunkie1 is now known as holzjunkie
06:13 AM gloops: near line 2, bad character #357 used
06:13 AM jthornton: sure there is
06:14 AM gloops: yes there is jthornton - re increment jog
06:14 AM gloops: sorry not awake yet
06:14 AM jthornton: me neither
06:16 AM gloops: any idea what bad character #357 could refer to? that number isnt in the code
06:17 AM gloops: ahh its ok, i saved for emc2 g61 i think
06:21 AM jthornton: G code for emc2 is the same for Linuxcnc
06:24 AM gloops: im not sure why emc g61 threw an error, i couldnt see anything, g64 loads fine; i think ill leave this while later im not thinking very well atm
07:36 AM jthornton: G61 is a valid G code
07:37 AM ktc: anyone use linuxcnc for laser cutter?
07:37 AM jthornton: yes
07:38 AM ktc: what about the pwm laser power control?
07:38 AM jthornton: no idea
07:41 AM gloops: linuxcnc controls spindle speed easy with pwm, dont know how laser works but same principle
07:42 AM ktc: https://github.com/jv4779/2x_laser is the 10.04 github for that anyone use that ?
07:45 AM holzjunkie: jthornton: hy now i have installed stretch with linuxcnc now i still make the updates
07:48 AM gloops: with spindle, set pin 17 (that is pwn on breakout board) linuxcnc matches pwm value 0-10 to spindle speed (0-24000rpm maybe) using a scale value for spindle frequency you input, i imagine laser control is much the same, but i dont use laser
07:48 AM gloops: CaptHindSight
07:51 AM ben__: Hello :) Can someone help me with gantry configuration?
07:52 AM gloops: what seems to be the problem with the gantry?
07:53 AM ben__: The problem is that I have XYZA - configuration with double Y axis.
07:53 AM gloops: yes, you dont want that
07:53 AM holzjunkie: jthornton: #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 4.9.65-3+deb9u2 (2018-01-01)
07:54 AM gloops: ben__ are you using linuxcnc 2.8?
07:55 AM ben__: What I did so far was checking the documentations for trivkins and gantrykins and I don't get the any clue how to deal with it. At the moment, I am back on trivkins with following sections in ini-file: [traj] aXis=4 coordinates = XYYZA kinstype=BOTTH.
07:55 AM ben__: No gloops, I am still on 2.7.12
07:56 AM gloops: first step - upgrade to 2.8, its on the repository
07:56 AM gloops: then you need a basic XYZ config, use stepconfig
07:57 AM gloops: 2.8 allows you to edit each joint individually, on each axis
07:57 AM ben__: why a XYZ config? I have XYZA (4-axis is a printing head)
07:58 AM gloops: oh sorry i thought you were trying to config a 2 motor gantry
07:59 AM ben__: Ok - got you so far. Do you know where I can get 2.8 from? You said from repo. I already used repos, but I am not aware of linuxcnc repo. could you guide me on that?
07:59 AM ben__: no gloops. A is used as an independent axis.
08:01 AM gloops: if you have installed linuxcnc on the debian iso just go to the default repository and search under linuxcnc, you wont need it if you arent trying to run a gantry with 2 screws and motors, i misunderstood
08:01 AM gloops: 2.8 master
08:02 AM ben__: I don't use debian. I am using another linux distribution
08:03 AM gloops: how did you install linuxcnc?
08:04 AM ben__: following this guide beginning with step 7.2
08:04 AM ben__: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html
08:05 AM gloops: yes if youre on that, synpatic package manager, repositories
08:07 AM gloops: i cant remember exactly what its called, my debian is shut down, look for linuxcnc or cnc, 2.8 master
08:09 AM gloops: if you are NOT trying to run a gantry youre better with the stable realease you are on now
08:09 AM ben__: ok - but this is a gantry config isn't it?
08:11 AM gloops: a gantry has 2 motors, does yours?
08:12 AM ben__: yes for Y axis.
08:12 AM gloops: or put it another way, do you have 2 motors on any axis?
08:12 AM gloops: right
08:12 AM ben__: no. I have only 2 motors for Y
08:12 AM gloops: yes
08:13 AM gloops: right, the best way to do that is on 2.8
08:13 AM ben__: this is similar to what i have:
08:13 AM ben__: https://jeremyyoungdesign.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/photo-10-05-15-1-01-29-pm.jpg
08:14 AM gloops: very nice machine
08:14 AM gloops: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/49-basic-configuration/33079-how-to-2-or-more-motors-on-one-axis-gantry-linuxcnc-2-8-master
08:14 AM ben__: Indeed but not mine :-(
08:15 AM gloops: i have got working config for gantry, but machine computer is shut down and i was going for a nap in a bit lol
08:16 AM ben__: ok - checked the synaptics package manager. Got software sources from http://linuxcnc.org/ precise base 2.7rtai
08:16 AM gloops: get 2.8 installed first
08:21 AM ben__: can I follow thisone? http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
08:23 AM gloops: try it
08:23 AM ktc: deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ jessie master-rtpreempt
08:23 AM gloops: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/49-basic-configuration/33079-how-to-2-or-more-motors-on-one-axis-gantry-linuxcnc-2-8-master
08:23 AM ben__: welcome to linuxcnc 2.8.0-pre1-3694-....
08:24 AM gloops: that tutorial is 99% complete, there are a couple of minor things missing
08:24 AM gloops: if you can follow it
08:25 AM ben__: hope so.. I am not an native english speaker
08:25 AM gloops: ahh
08:25 AM ben__: aaaah :-)
08:25 AM gloops: have you used linuxcnc at all yet?
08:26 AM ben__: Yes - I also managed to beckhoff ethercat and a printer thermo
08:26 AM gloops: so you are familiar with hal and ini files
08:27 AM ben__: Yes I am
08:27 AM gloops: very easy to do then
08:28 AM ben__: linuxcnc 2.8 is now up and running.
08:29 AM ben__: WOW my hal-files have been updated
08:31 AM ben__: AAAAH - I see -- Are you still online in the next minutes? I will play a little with the config in the meantime to get a feeling for it
08:31 AM gloops: working hal config https://pastebin.com/6VKNQG8x
08:33 AM gloops: ini https://pastebin.com/c7DjKrAG
08:33 AM gloops: well, they should load
08:34 AM ben__: great - thank you. I am still checking the changes within hal and ini-files
08:34 AM ben__: this looks great!!!
08:35 AM gloops: haha, you probably picked the least knowledgeable person in here - but if youve got it im sure youll get it sorted it now
08:35 AM ben__: as far as I understood, I need for my setup (XYYZA) 4-Axis, 5-Joints and 3 Axis
08:35 AM ben__: 4 - Axis
08:36 AM ben__: you helped me very much. thank you. :-)
08:40 AM gloops: when you try running the gantry in linuxcnc you will start in joint mode, you cannot jog the gantry until all axis are homed, which will then switch to world mode XYZ
08:40 AM gloops: or in your case, XYZA
08:42 AM gloops: like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDTpnf7DIHM
08:49 AM ben__: I am following your examples. I can see that joint_0 to joint_3 are defined and the machine uses 4 joints@3axis. I added now an JOINT_1 to JOINT_4 to my ini-file and defined [traj] coordindates=XYZA and [kins ] joints=5 KINEMATICS = trivkins coordinates=XYYZA kinstype=BOTH
08:49 AM ben__: when I start the gui, my axis are named 0 - 4
08:58 AM ben__: .
09:07 AM JT-Shop: correct
09:10 AM ben__: Hello again
10:31 AM JT-Shop: now if I can just remember where the 2mm screws are...
10:32 AM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
10:40 AM holzjunkie: jt are you here?
10:44 AM JT-Shop: aye in and out
10:45 AM holzjunkie: ?
10:45 AM holzjunkie: debain 9 now is installed with linuxcnc
10:45 AM JT-Shop: nice
10:46 AM JT-Shop: means I'm wandering in the shop from time to time
10:46 AM holzjunkie: the 7i80 is wired and i can ping it what is the next step?
10:46 AM holzjunkie: no problem i´m also selfmade mann
10:47 AM JT-Shop: you could get a list of all your pins to a file, that helps later on
10:49 AM holzjunkie: mesaflash --device 7i80 --readhmid?
10:50 AM JT-Shop: no, let me get a link
10:57 AM Tom_L: dmesg might get it too
10:57 AM Tom_L: dmesg -c to clear the buffer then
10:57 AM Tom_L: dmesg > pinlist.txt
10:57 AM Tom_L: after you start linuxcnc of course
10:59 AM JT-Shop: halrun
10:59 AM JT-Shop: loadrt hm2_eth board_ip="10.10.10.10"
11:00 AM JT-Shop: show pin > pins.txt
11:02 AM Tom_L: 32°F ... stinkin weather
11:02 AM holzjunkie: if got an error massage have to install it first ?
11:14 AM JT-Shop: https://paste.ubuntu.com/ the error
11:14 AM JT-Shop: geez I hate that pc case you have to take the cpu fan off to add a drive
11:21 AM pcw_home: you have to "loadrt hostmot2" before "loadrt hm2_eth ..."
11:25 AM Tom_L: pcw_home we were looking at solutions for glass scales last night wondering if say the 7i90 7i47 are fast enough to support 4 of them
11:25 AM JT-Shop: opps
11:26 AM Tom_L: i'm not that familiar with either, it's CaptHindsight's project
11:28 AM Tom_L: or if you had an analog solution for reading them
11:30 AM holzjunkie: sorry jt other pc
11:31 AM CaptHindsight: sincos interpolators, don't see any new boards for less than $400 except for some $80 dev boards
11:32 AM CaptHindsight: pcw_home: anything at Mesa that inputs sincos 1v p-p encoders?
11:34 AM CaptHindsight: pcw_home: the other question is: What is the lowest cost solution for 3 closed loop steppers with 3 quad. 5V encoders?
11:37 AM JT-Shop: nice I just messed up my network on the debian 9 using some tool
11:46 AM pcw_home: No, we've though about making some interpolators but dont really see enough market
11:48 AM pcw_home: cheapest for step/dir and encoders we have is a 7I90HD (you dont really need a daughtercard if you are careful with wiring and have opto isolated step drives)
11:49 AM CaptHindsight: thanks, yes not many encoders anymore that output sincos
11:50 AM pcw_home: if you dont want EPP then a 7I92 or 7I93 are the next option
11:50 AM pcw_home: (and you can use a $5.00 ebay breakout with the 7I92)
11:51 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:52 AM IchGucksLive: the 7i92 and the 5Axis BOB workes great
11:52 AM holzjunkie: tach
11:52 AM IchGucksLive: holzjunkie, gehts
11:52 AM pcw_home: If its for high volume you can make the cards yourself (7I92 has about a $19 parts cost)
11:54 AM IchGucksLive: pcw_home, its sold at 200USD in europ
11:54 AM IchGucksLive: pcw_home, woudt be good to get a near open sourcce like this to work on linuxcnc
11:55 AM pcw_home: thats funny since the dealers get it for $61...
11:55 AM Tom_L: pcw_home, the only difference between the 2 is 50pin vs 25D ?
11:55 AM Rab: pcw_home, wow, does Mesa support that? Do you license designs, or what?
11:56 AM pcw_home: Tom_L, Yes 7I92 is 2x 25 pin, 7I93 is 2X 50 pin
11:58 AM pcw_home: Rab, there is really nothing magic in most of our FPGA cards, schematics are available on request
11:58 AM pcw_home: plus all LinuxCNC related firmware is open source
11:59 AM pcw_home: so its not difficult to clone (and we have helped some people do just that)
12:02 PM IchGucksLive: pcw_home, that woudt improve my nearly 1000 education nashies in the 21th century
12:04 PM Rab: pcw_home, where's your margin to amortize development? Turnkey for commercial customers?
12:05 PM pcw_home: mostly commercial/OEM besides development time is basically a hobby for me at this point
12:06 PM Rab: pcw_home, that's really cool.
12:06 PM pcw_home: CaptHindsight: we have added a laser modulation firmware module to HostMot2, not sure how long it will take to get hostmot2 driver support
12:07 PM CaptHindsight: pcw_home: I'll take a look at it
12:08 PM CaptHindsight: the Chinese are making low cost CO2 RF lasers and galvo heads now
12:08 PM pcw_home: it supports single bit (up to about 512 KHz bit rate at 1 KHZ servo thread) and 8 bit PWM
12:09 PM CaptHindsight: spotted a few lower cost 1064nm diode lasers as well
12:09 PM pcw_home: bitstream / PWM is position locked
12:11 PM pcw_home: I'll take a look at implementing that digital Galvo serial link in the next week or two
12:12 PM JT-Shop: hmmm show pin > pins.txt fails to produce the text file in debian 9...
12:12 PM CaptHindsight: did they change the name or location of the text editor?
12:13 PM pcw_home: would you want the digital galvo output to have interpolation?
12:14 PM pcw_home: (so it could do straight vectors between servo thread updates)
12:14 PM pcw_home: or do the galvos do this?
12:15 PM CaptHindsight: pcw_home: the galvos are all moving to xy2-100
12:16 PM CaptHindsight: the analog or xy2-100's are just slaves to whatever you send them, you have to hold them at whatever position, they have no buffer or hold last position
12:18 PM pcw_home: OK so if 1 KHz update rate is not good enough a possibility is to generate the number with a rate generator just like a step generator
12:18 PM pcw_home: so now you get interpolation between points
12:18 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.newson.be/doc.php?id=XY2-100
12:19 PM CaptHindsight: understood
12:19 PM CaptHindsight: for now 1khz is about the top speed of the Chinese galvos
12:20 PM CaptHindsight: the ones by Cambridge or similar are a bit faster
12:21 PM CaptHindsight: a 1% step response for the galvo is ~300uS
12:22 PM pcw_home: it does not make it much more involved to add interpolation (and you can just set the velocity to 0 and update the position register if you dont want interpolation)
12:22 PM CaptHindsight: sounds great
12:22 PM CaptHindsight: can't hurt to be prepared
12:23 PM CaptHindsight: 100% or full scale movement is ~700Hz max
12:23 PM pcw_home: should be out from under some production overhead next week so I can take a look at this
12:38 PM gloops: funny when i think about it, started building router at xmas, did its first cut on easter day...
12:39 PM gloops: i guess it was meant to be
12:39 PM miss0r: Do you have some video of your acomplishment there`? :)
12:40 PM gloops: no, was only jogging the cut lol, not feeling great so i left it at that
12:40 PM miss0r: How did it to?
12:40 PM gloops: it seemed absurb having that gantry to cut a bit of pine, it didnt know it was cutting
12:41 PM miss0r: that is a good thing I think
12:41 PM Rab: gloops, congrats!
12:42 PM gloops: yeah, will see when i run some proper cuts, pretty confident its stiff enough anyway heh
12:42 PM gloops: Rab thanks
12:42 PM ben__: Hello guys, do you use ethercat components on your machines?
12:44 PM gloops: plenty of mesa users here ben__ dunno about ethercat
12:46 PM ben__: thanks so far :-)
12:47 PM gloops: got the gantry running already ben__?
12:47 PM ben__: Yes - works great now.
12:48 PM gloops: excellent, probably will be some who are familair with ethercat here, its dropping on them when theyre here
12:48 PM ben__: To be honest, overall performance of linuxcnc seems to be better now
12:54 PM miss0r: I just landed a 480x900x32mm cast iron plate :)
12:55 PM miss0r: It has a few holes drilled into it, but I think it will make for a nice surface plate for fragalots epoxy granite cnc. I just have to wait for him to get back from vacation, to ask him if he wants a piece of it :]
12:55 PM gloops: sell it to fragalot for 300 euros
12:56 PM miss0r: nah. He helped me out with some stuff. He can have it for free ;) I'll even machine it for him
12:56 PM gloops: actually that would be probabl be cheap at shop prices
12:56 PM gloops: anyway afk for a while
01:07 PM holzjunkie: JT-Shop: is it possible to take a thin client pc?
01:09 PM holzjunkie: for linuxcnc or is it difficult to?
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: has anyone found a current refurb PC with low latency for software stepping with pcie LPT cards?
01:16 PM ben__: HP 8440p ?
01:16 PM Tom_L: goin for uber cheap?
01:16 PM CaptHindsight: <$200
01:17 PM CaptHindsight: the last one we got in had terrible jitter and the BIOS would not let us kill power managment
01:17 PM Tom_L: i got a couple lpt cards a while back but i'm not even sure what interface they are now
01:17 PM CaptHindsight: with hm2_eth it's not a problem
01:17 PM ben__: I purchased my laptop inkl. dockingstation for less than 250bugs 1,5year ago.
01:17 PM Tom_L: they didn't work out for what i needed so they're sitting in a box
01:18 PM CaptHindsight: I found a Chinese source of low profile PCIe LPT cards
01:19 PM CaptHindsight: many of the corporate leased smaller form factor desktops also remove BIOS settings to reduce service calls
01:20 PM CaptHindsight: power management setting are most often not available
01:21 PM miss0r: Don't you just love wasting two hours of lathe work because you are an idiot? :]
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: never fun
01:22 PM Tom_L: i'd rather waste 2 hrs here
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: the other day I was wondering why it wasn't cutting properly, I had the spindle in Rev :)
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: doooh!
01:22 PM Tom_L: just flip the tool over :)
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: heh
01:23 PM miss0r: Bleh. I was almost done. I'm making these two 90degree brass bends with outside 1/2" pipe thread on one end and inside 1/4" pipe thread in the other. I just messed up the last threading operation on the last one :)
01:23 PM CaptHindsight: too many things at once going on
01:23 PM CaptHindsight: will 30 wraps of teflon take work?
01:23 PM miss0r: adding one of thoes water removal units, to my shop air system
01:23 PM CaptHindsight: take/tape
01:24 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight: Probally... But I will know it is there
01:24 PM miss0r: which will bug me, to a point i'll make a new one anyway. So, I am just going to skip the part where I am being bugged over time, until I change it.
01:28 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIADT25X35268 $69
01:28 PM miss0r: hehe. I have two of those under my desk. Using one right now
01:29 PM miss0r: Pretty decent machine actualy
01:29 PM CaptHindsight: oh so those work
01:30 PM CaptHindsight: what interface are you using? Ethernet or?
01:30 PM miss0r: Hehe. Serial
01:31 PM CaptHindsight: whats the jitter like? ever run the test?
01:31 PM miss0r: You forget i'm sporting a mid '80s philips 432 controller
01:32 PM miss0r: I have not
01:32 PM miss0r: but if you can get one of those Fujitsu siemens esprimo computers, they are pretty good
01:34 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fujitsu-Siemens-Esprimo-Q9000-Intel-Core-i3-2-40Ghz-4Gb-Ram-320gb-HDD-HDMI-Win-7-/292498374940
01:34 PM Tom_L: EU
01:36 PM miss0r: okay.. I was thinking of a somewhat older model :]
01:41 PM miss0r: I'm totally beat. I'll call it a night, see you around
01:42 PM Crom: grrrr ok I see ves connecting here... I don't see anything on the ves computer
01:43 PM Tom_L: take it out of stealth mode
02:10 PM gloops: rain rain rain
02:43 PM Tom_L: feels like winter again here
02:44 PM Tom_L: 30°F
02:46 PM Tom_L: guess that's our april fools
02:55 PM jthornton: 40°F here
02:55 PM jthornton: frost warning Wednesday night lol
03:04 PM pink_vampire: is there any advantage to 8" grinder vs 6"?
03:04 PM SpeedEvil: 2"
03:04 PM SpeedEvil: You can cut an inch deeper or so, meaning you don't need to go at something from both sides - if it's possible at all.
03:04 PM SpeedEvil: Or do you mean a bench grinder
03:04 PM SpeedEvil: (or surface)
03:06 PM pink_vampire: bench
03:07 PM pink_vampire: SpeedEvil: I got a lathe, and I want to get a bench grinder for tool grinding and stuff like that
03:08 PM SpeedEvil: Bench grinder the curvature of any grind is larger, and wheels last longer with larger wheels
03:08 PM SpeedEvil: (radius of curvature - they're straighter)
03:09 PM pink_vampire: do you think 6" will be ok?
03:15 PM Tom_L: i've been using a 6" grinder for years
03:15 PM SpeedEvil: 4" is fine even.
03:15 PM SpeedEvil: (but would be odd)
03:18 PM roycroft: i use a "tool grinder" for my lathe tooling (and for sharpening drill bits and the like
03:18 PM roycroft: the kind that you can grind on the side of the wheels
03:19 PM roycroft: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Heavy-Duty-Tool-Grinder/H7762
03:19 PM roycroft: like that
03:19 PM roycroft: one can get diamond wheels for it for dressing carbide tooling
03:20 PM pink_vampire: roycroft: it is look much much nicer then a bench grinder
03:21 PM gloops: the wet tool grinders are good for tool sharpening, i suppose a standard bench grinder is more versatile all round
03:21 PM roycroft: i have a bunch of 6" bench grinders, but the tool grinder is much nicer for lathe tooling
03:21 PM roycroft: folks make jigs for those things to grind fairly precise toool geometry
03:23 PM roycroft: when i was taking machining classes the school had a couple of those grinders, and they had the tables locked to (i think) 12 degrees
03:24 PM roycroft: they had machined some precision locating holes in the tables, and had a big pile of jigs to hold tooling at various angles in all 3 planes
03:24 PM roycroft: one just grabbed the correct jig, slapped it on, inserted the tooling, and went to town
03:25 PM roycroft: we weren't allowed to use those grinders for the first year of instruction though
03:25 PM roycroft: they wanted us to learn to grind by hand before letting us use the jigs
03:27 PM Tom_L: then you don't need em
03:31 PM pink_vampire: https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200465195_200465195?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Lawn%20%2B%20Garden%20%3E%20Lawn%20Mowers%20%3E%20Mower%20Accessories&utm_campaign=Oregon&utm_content=17730&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIk-qFtfWZ2gIVWEwNCh0krwJrEAQYAiABEgLw1vD_BwE
03:31 PM pink_vampire: what is that?
03:33 PM gloops: its a grinder
03:33 PM pink_vampire: i know
03:33 PM pink_vampire: but for what??
03:33 PM pink_vampire: Awww diamond! http://www.grizzly.com/products/Diamond-Dresser-3-4-Carat/H5892
03:34 PM gloops: i dont like that first design
03:35 PM gloops: https://www.screwfix.com/p/energer-enb520grb-150mm-bench-grinder-240v/91494?kpid=91494&cm_mmc=Bing-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20Tracking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&ds_kid=92700019342119386&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping%20%7C%20Tools&utm_term=1100608846831&utm_content=Shopping%20-%20Tools&ds_rl=1245250&gclid=CPno-Jf2mdoCFUVnGwodMPwG7Q&gclsrc=ds&dclid=COXLhpj2mdoCFa0R0woddlAGEw
03:35 PM gloops: thats really cheapo but more versatile
03:36 PM DaViruz: pink_vampire: lawnmower blades, according to the manual
03:36 PM gloops: you can use the side of the wheel freehand anyway on standard bench grinder
03:37 PM JT-Shop: damn BP fell off the LAN
03:40 PM gloops: if it is for lawmower blades its a dangerous thing, never put anything where it can get trapped under the wheel to the table, it will fly, the wheel may shatter, your fingers may get snatched in and your face blown off etc
03:40 PM JT-Shop: well crap the IR lights reflect off the lexan into the camera...
03:47 PM DaViruz: i don't think you're supposed to grind on the side where it can catch
03:55 PM gloops: easy to put something down though, drop something, i dunno i just didnt like the look of it
03:55 PM gloops: or some fool just absent mindedly shove something on the wheel to take a bit off
03:56 PM Deejay: gn8
04:23 PM gloops: the more i look at inkscape the more i think its great and will have to learn it
04:24 PM gloops: the sum of all the apps and codes i need to learn is easily a BSc
04:24 PM gloops: combined everything, building and understanding cnc from scratch is like a masters
04:49 PM JT-Shop: I feel like I have a masters in chickens now lol
04:50 PM methods_: a pollo.h.d
05:00 PM gloops: could do with knowing this by the end of the week
05:01 PM Loetmichel: re at home... 10 hours painting my mother in laws new flat... then 400km drive home... maaan i feel every bone in my body... i think i am getting old ;)
05:02 PM gloops: 400km is safe distance for mother in law
05:03 PM Loetmichel: hihi
05:03 PM Rab: Inkscape is tha shiznit. I used to use xfig for vector drawing...now that was some rough (but powerful) software.
05:04 PM Loetmichel: sadly i'll have to redo that stunt the next 3 weekends
05:04 PM Loetmichel: didnt finish the painting, have to do the carpets/flooring as well and then she moves in...
05:11 PM gloops: Loetmichel thats too much
05:11 PM gloops: man of your age, you ought to be taking things steady you know
05:11 PM Loetmichel: too much what?
05:11 PM gloops: too much work
05:11 PM Loetmichel: bah
05:12 PM gloops: full time job + painting and driving at weekends
05:13 PM Loetmichel: its a bit annoying though when your body starts refuse to do what he had done for decades without complaining.
05:13 PM gloops: its telling you something
05:16 PM JT-Shop: here's a hint it ain't gonna get better
05:18 PM gloops: its a funny age, bloke i used to work with had a heart attack a bit back - only 57
05:18 PM gloops: went out like a light
05:19 PM Tom_L: when your group of friends starts thinning out you know you've reached that point
05:23 PM Loetmichel: still have 8 years to go then, gloops
05:23 PM Loetmichel: Tom_L: my "parent generation" starts thinning out. thats as bad
05:24 PM Loetmichel: 2uncles, dad, dad in law, 3aunts... all in the last 3 years...
05:27 PM gloops: 50 is the wall, you look round the heavy manual jobs, you dont see many over 50, bricklayers, steel erectors, that kind of thing
05:30 PM JT-Shop: I had a heart attack when I was 39... 26 years ago
05:31 PM gloops: didnt know that JT-Shop but yes it can easily happen to a young man
05:32 PM JT-Shop: I'm actually in better shape now than when I was 50
05:32 PM Loetmichel: gloops: i worked 10 years in stage rental
05:33 PM Loetmichel: i certainly LOOK the 50
05:33 PM Loetmichel: ... or 60 ;)
05:35 PM Tom_L: on the ether cards, does it make any difference if you're connected to a 10/100 or gb connection?
05:44 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L: like a 7i92 etc?
05:44 PM Tom_L: yeah
05:44 PM pcw_home: Tom_L Mesa's Ethernet FPGA cards are 100BT so GB or 100 BT host are the same
05:44 PM Tom_L: i suppose it doesn't matter
05:45 PM pcw_home: Only case it matter is if you want to run multiple Ethernet cards
05:45 PM Tom_L: does mesaflash support them or do you load the bitfiles differently on them?
05:46 PM pcw_home: so GB --> GB switch --> multiple RT Ethernet cards is best for multiple cards
05:46 PM Tom_L: yeah
05:46 PM pcw_home: mesaflash works with Ethernet also
05:46 PM Tom_L: good to know
05:46 PM pcw_home: (and no sudo needed)
05:48 PM pcw_home: you need to supply a IP address on the command line if not using the default address
05:48 PM Tom_L: default is 10.10.10.10 ?
05:48 PM pcw_home: default is 192.168.1.121
05:49 PM Tom_L: i wonder where i saw that ...
05:49 PM Tom_L: yeah i see that in the pdf now
05:49 PM pcw_home: well there are 2 defaults (the unchangeable 192.168.1.121 and the EEPROM IP address which is 10.10.10.10 as shipped)
05:50 PM pcw_home: but can be changed to anything
05:53 PM pcw_home: Tom_L: do you want a Ethernet card to play with? I have one here (7I80HD) I stepped on (and broke a connector) still usable just no latch on one connector
05:53 PM Tom_L: i'd like to try one some day
05:54 PM Tom_L: but i just got the mill working so i'd likely bench test it a while before plugging it in permanently
05:54 PM Tom_L: i've got spare daughter cards i can use on it
05:54 PM Tom_L: is the 7i80 50 pin?
05:54 PM pcw_home: Yes 3x50
05:55 PM Tom_L: similar setup then to the 7i90 just ethernet
05:55 PM pcw_home: 7I80HD is 50, 7I80DB is 25
05:55 PM Tom_L: gotcha
05:55 PM Tom_L: HD = header
05:55 PM pcw_home: Yes its pretty much a 7I90 with ethernet connection
05:56 PM pcw_home: (and bit bigger FPGA)
05:56 PM Tom_L: i'd sure plug it in and try it
05:56 PM pcw_home: same basic physical arrangement
05:56 PM Tom_L: will the same bitfiles work on either one?
05:57 PM Tom_L: or does it need to be recompiled for the80
05:57 PM Tom_L: probably requires recompiling...
05:57 PM pcw_home: No, different bitfiles (but same 72 pin PIN_xxxx files)
05:57 PM Tom_L: yeah
05:57 PM Tom_L: easy fix
05:58 PM pcw_home: typically you also may want to add the DPLL module
05:58 PM Tom_L: i'm not using it currently
05:58 PM Tom_L: better pwm or what?
05:59 PM Tom_L: i haven't read much about it
06:00 PM pcw_home: the DPLL module creates a local servo thread timebase so reduce the effect of jitter on the stepgen and encoder modules
06:00 PM pcw_home: s/so reduce/to reduce/
06:01 PM Tom_L: just a function that runs in the background then?
06:01 PM pcw_home: Yes
06:02 PM Tom_L: i've got a spare mb i could set up with preempt
06:02 PM Tom_L: gotta find a box for it
06:02 PM pcw_home: With Preempt-RT and Ethernet you may have fair poor jitter so its better to sample the stepgen position and encoder position with lower jitter
06:03 PM Tom_L: i think i tested it on this asrock board and it wasn't too bad
06:03 PM pcw_home: the DPLL reduces the sampling jitter to < 1/2 usec or better
06:04 PM pcw_home: even if the host has 500 usec spikes
06:04 PM Tom_L: work ok with wheezy or should i look at something newer?
06:05 PM pcw_home: it works with Wheezy but I think its easier to use the Stretch test ISO
06:08 PM Tom_L: possible typo in the 7i93 manual PDF P12 last paragraph refers to the 7i80 instead of 7i93
06:18 PM pcw_home: thanks, I'll fix that
06:19 PM Tom_L: is the -16 -25 the size of the fpga on those?
06:19 PM Tom_L: iirc i ran into that once before
06:36 PM enleth: pcw_home: you know what would be cool? a filter/search feature in the Mesa online shop, to select specific interface types (ethernet/PCI/PCIe/...), types of connections to other cards, etc., and a "this card can be used with those other cards" list for all non-standalone products
06:37 PM enleth: especially the latter part
06:37 PM Tom_L: you see the sort button don't you?
06:39 PM enleth: Tom_L: name/price/rating/model?
06:39 PM Tom_L: yeah
06:40 PM Tom_L: i never noticed or payed attention to it till yesterday :)
06:40 PM enleth: well, yes, it sorts by name, price, rating (whatever that is?) and model (how does that differ from name?)
06:40 PM enleth: it doesn't sort by interface options
06:41 PM enleth: and doesn't help browse products that can be used together
06:41 PM enleth: there are 48 products in the Anything I/O FPGA card category alone
06:41 PM CaptHindsight: there is a code to the part numbers
06:41 PM CaptHindsight: xixx
06:42 PM CaptHindsight: xi9x is ethernet IIRC
06:42 PM CaptHindsight: I think the third x is the type of bus or interface
06:43 PM CaptHindsight: there is also some code for DB vs 50pin/25pin header
06:43 PM enleth: 7i76 and 7i76e beg to differ
06:43 PM enleth: I can see there is *some* code to those names, but how does one get to know what it is?
06:43 PM Tom_L: HD is 50 pin header
06:43 PM Tom_L: DB is just that
06:43 PM CaptHindsight: he dicussed it once
06:43 PM enleth: trailing letters, if any, are headers, yeah
06:44 PM CaptHindsight: but yeah i wish they posted it, but maybe it's not a hard rule
06:44 PM enleth: but there are 50pin and 75pin headers
06:44 PM enleth: the part after the middle letter seems to be more or less random
06:44 PM CaptHindsight: ask him
06:44 PM enleth: if there's a rule to it, it's absolutely not clear
06:46 PM enleth: CaptHindsight: completely missing the point
06:46 PM CaptHindsight: I wish it was more like JT's site where it's like a tree you can choose by what is compatible
06:46 PM enleth: I mean, I'd be interested in learning what the code to those names is, but the next guy will be forced to ask the same things, and so on, over and over
06:46 PM CaptHindsight: I just ask him if I can't find it
06:46 PM CaptHindsight: I usually find out more than I asked in a day
06:46 PM CaptHindsight: no big deal
06:47 PM enleth: sooo... suppose I ask, I get an answer - and a month from now, I'll be looking for some IRC log or a random email when I need the info again?
06:47 PM Tom_L: sure
06:47 PM enleth: substitute "I" for anyone else needing the same info, it's not about *me*
06:48 PM enleth: well, it is so far as I am completely baffled by the lack of it on the website
06:48 PM enleth: I just don't get it
06:48 PM Tom_L: what don't you get?
06:48 PM Tom_L: i felt the same way once
06:48 PM enleth: why doesn't Mesa post this information in some accessible, structured manner
06:49 PM Tom_L: he did redo his website a while back and it's better than it was
06:50 PM CaptHindsight: probably to keep us on our toes
06:50 PM enleth: I can't even begin to imagine what the experience was before, then
06:50 PM Tom_L: i'd rather see time spent on developing new hardware over a website search engine
06:50 PM Tom_L: personally
06:50 PM enleth: I can see they offer dozens of interesting, useful products, but figuring out what they all do, how can they be used together, how to select the right one, etc., is an immense PITA for no good reason at all
06:50 PM Tom_L: he's a small operation
06:51 PM Tom_L: lack of manpower is a good reason
06:52 PM enleth: jesus, if I had more free time, I'd volunteer to sort this out for free just to make the world a better, less mind-boggling place
06:52 PM enleth: sadly, I've got enough stuff I've committed to as a volunteer for free as it is
06:52 PM Tom_L: move to Ca. and you can help feed the goats and sort his webpage out
06:53 PM CaptHindsight: sheep
06:53 PM CaptHindsight: no goats
06:53 PM Tom_L: sry
06:53 PM CaptHindsight: hehe
06:53 PM CaptHindsight: I made the same mistake ear;ier
06:53 PM CaptHindsight: earlier even
06:54 PM CaptHindsight: the deer around here have no fear
06:54 PM CaptHindsight: just walked within 25ft of a group
06:54 PM CaptHindsight: got some stares was about all
06:56 PM enleth: and to be honest, your reaction of "everything is fine, just do $(THING_THAT_DOES_NOTHING_TO_SOLVE_THE_PROBLEM_FOR_GOOD)" is mind-boggling too. maybe it's a cultural thing? something about expectations when dealing with e-commerce and calling vendors to ask instead of reading information posted on a website? I think I've had a similar problem with, and similar feelings about, other small US-based
06:56 PM enleth: businesses with internet presence
06:59 PM enleth: besides, I can't help but try to calculate all the time spend on answering IRC questions, emails and phone calls about the same thing over and over again compared to how long it might have taken to write some of it down once and post it on the website for good
07:00 PM enleth: and it doesn't come out in favor of "ask him"
07:03 PM CaptHindsight: you get older and you learn to pick your battles
07:03 PM enleth: what does that even mean?
07:04 PM Tom_L: food for thought
07:04 PM Tom_L: there are other interface solutions available
07:04 PM Tom_L: his happens to be the best
07:05 PM CaptHindsight: https://personalexcellence.co/blog/choose-your-battles/
07:06 PM enleth: I'd be inclined to agree, having used them, but what does that have to do with making it unduly hard on existing or potential customers to learn more about the products?
07:13 PM enleth: CaptHindsight: I'm pretty sure the exact same tips could be used to argue in favor of providing more information up-front to the customers of one's business to achieve long-term efficiency and bring in more sales and higher income. actually, I'm pretty sure I've heard someone argue in just that manner more than once
07:15 PM enleth: the only rational reason not to I can think of would be to *not* want more customers and order volume and deliberately avoid changes that could lead there
07:16 PM phaxx: what's a decent online source of aluminium bar stock in the EU?
07:16 PM phaxx: something like McMaster-Carr
07:17 PM phaxx: low shipping cost for low volume would be nice, hobby level stuff.
07:27 PM enleth: pcw_home: just in case you happen to read the above conversation and feel wrongly criticized - that's not my intention, I am extremely impressed by your work, I just don't *understand* why learning more about it has to be so hard and frustrating (especially for someone who's used to comparing technical products using structured technical data, not by asking questions and waiting for answers)
07:30 PM jdh: enleth: a guess is that their real market is for embedded mfg'ers and the lcnc community is just a beneficiary of that. could be wrong though. They didn't even have online ordering until recently.
07:31 PM enleth: jdh: but that market consists of engineers who need to compare and select their products too
07:34 PM enleth: what you say is most likely true, but I'd still expect them to have some sort of high-level product selection document, with a compatibility/interoperability matrix, a feature matrix and so on
07:34 PM enleth: if I were looking for a component vendor for a design I'm working on at my day job, I'd be much more inclined to look into products that come with those
07:35 PM jdh: perhaps they know the market better.
07:35 PM jdh: or perhaps they just like making cool stuff instead of doing docs
07:36 PM enleth: I must disagree here - the docs for Mesa stuff are perfectly fine, *if* you need them for a single specific product
07:38 PM enleth: which, if anything, makes the whole affair even weirder
07:42 PM enleth: again, maybe this is a cultural thing, I do get the impression that it's normal in the US to have to call/email a vendor for product details and selection more or less upfront, instead of downloading a couple PDFs or spreadsheets to get an overview and *maybe* then call if needed
07:42 PM jdh: it is not what I do when I evaluate parts either, but I am end user
07:43 PM jdh: keyence, parker/compumotor, cognex, etc. all make you give contact info before allowing access to docs though.
07:44 PM enleth: that's reasonable, and usually automated
07:44 PM enleth: but they *do* have product selection docs, right?
07:44 PM jdh: yes, and I even give them my real phone number
08:41 PM gloops: see the space station came down in the sea
08:41 PM dioz: so it didn't hit anyone?
08:41 PM dioz: shame
08:42 PM gloops: lol!
08:42 PM gloops: well i didnt want it to hit anyone, then again i suppose there are people i wouldnt have minded it hitting
08:43 PM gloops: pity i bet there were some useful bits and bobs on that
09:27 PM pink_vampire: what type of grease or oil i need to use in the 4 jaw chuck?
10:09 PM XXCoder: hey pink_vampire
10:58 PM hazzy-dev: pink_vampire: I use a little bit of way oil on my 4 jaw as needed, it slings out and gets dry fast, but it does not trap chips and other junk like grease would
10:59 PM XXCoder: something like starret way oil?
10:59 PM XXCoder: I planned to use that on 3d printer rails and cnc ryter also
11:01 PM hazzy-dev: I use mobile vactra #2, as I keep gallons of that stuff around for the one shots on the lathes and mills
11:04 PM CaptHindsight: heidenhain sure doesn't like to share pinouts and specs for older encoders
11:04 PM hazzy-dev: On my printer I use Supper Lube multi purpose synthetic and it works great at keeping all those cheap screws and bearings from squealing
11:06 PM CaptHindsight: I only use the cheap screws as examples for customers to see what not to use
11:07 PM CaptHindsight: in all seriousness I once got a leadscrew and brass nut with >1mm of lash brand new
11:07 PM XXCoder: lol thats opretty amazing good for chinseium
11:07 PM XXCoder: my 3d printer has even worse backlash
11:09 PM CaptHindsight: I think I ended up using it for a spring loaded tilting platform
11:09 PM XXCoder: whats that for
11:10 PM CaptHindsight: sloshing fluids
11:11 PM CaptHindsight: one side on a hinge, the other moves up and down
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: "Expressive Power of Non−Well−Founded Set Theory"
11:15 PM CaptHindsight: hazzy-dev: how is the gui tool doing?