#linuxcnc Logs
Mar 26 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:41 AM fragalot: hi
12:44 AM XXCoder: yo
12:49 AM miss0r: mornin
12:50 AM fragalot: hi miss0r
12:51 AM miss0r: hello. Tell me, why have you added all the \ in the end of your lines? is it because its part of the same 'define' ?
12:51 AM fragalot: exactly
12:51 AM fragalot: a #define can only span one line, so the \ allow me to write more lines to make it easier to read
12:52 AM fragalot: (mind you, I haven't actually tested that piece of code, so it's possible it won't compile :) :)
12:52 AM fragalot: if it doesn't compile, either I made a mistake, or it is not happy with the pin_xx stuff being a define also and would prefer variables..
12:52 AM miss0r: sure. I won't test it till I have everything working together. THEN I can start making it look nice
12:53 AM fragalot: good plan
12:53 AM miss0r: perhaps.. its 'a' plan anyway
12:53 AM miss0r: Tell me, do you have holidays comming up this week as well?
12:53 AM fragalot: leaving for scotland on friday
12:54 AM miss0r: Sounds nice. I've never been myself. Me and the misses have talked about it before though
12:57 AM fragalot: yeah should be good :)
12:59 AM miss0r: time to test if this windows 7 laptop can handle the AB internal talk :]
12:59 AM fragalot: lol
12:59 AM fragalot: we've started using virtual machines exclusively for PLC's
01:00 AM fragalot: one for AB, one for Siemens, etc..
01:00 AM miss0r: hey ITS ALIVE !
01:00 AM fragalot: just because all of them put so much garbage on your pc
01:00 AM fragalot: w00t
01:00 AM miss0r: no issues connecting to the PLC from windows 7. Its that windows 10 stuff. I've never had issues with it before windows 10
01:01 AM fragalot: very possible
01:01 AM miss0r: Most of my issues with old software happened when I changed from windows XP to windows 7.. No more unsigned drivers...
01:02 AM miss0r: I must admit not seeing it comming from windows 7 to 10. In that respect they are the same
01:02 AM fragalot: ?
01:02 AM miss0r: they are both using kernel drivers. That is what messed me up going from windows xp to windows 7
01:03 AM fragalot: ah, but windows 10 is a real pain if you want to use self-signed drivers
01:03 AM fragalot: the only way i'vef ound that doesn't cost a fortune, is to reboot whilst holding down shift, doing the magical jazz hands routine in that special menu, and reboot with the feature "allow self signed drivers" enabled
01:04 AM fragalot: and that works ONCE.
01:04 AM miss0r: :D
01:04 AM miss0r: I might try that. I've tried 1) yelling at it 2) smacking the screen 3) threatening it with a huge magnet 4) shaking my fist at god. None of which were overly effective
01:05 AM fragalot: weird, shaking your fist is typically the last thing I try as it's so ... invasive.
01:06 AM XXCoder: lol
01:06 AM miss0r: :]
01:13 AM IchGucksLive: hi
01:13 AM XXCoder: hey
01:14 AM XXCoder: hopefully losing terminal isnt terminial. ;)
01:14 AM miss0r: lol
01:28 AM IchGucksLive: till later
02:01 AM Deejay: moin
02:08 AM gloops: right, see if i can sort this shit out today
02:37 AM gloops: i mainly blame a) the design of this box, which is not my own, i followed an experts tutorial
02:38 AM gloops: and b) the chinese
02:40 AM gloops: the chinese have probably cost the west millions of lost man hours, by selling completely non-standardised and completely undocumented electronics components
02:43 AM syyl: sounds like some large western industrial componend manufacturers too ;)
02:44 AM miss0r: its not that theres no documentation for the western stuff. the manufacturers just doesn't want to share :]
02:44 AM gloops: well, its one thing to sell those components to industry, where the expertise and equipment to identify and analyse the product is in place
02:44 AM gloops: different to sell them as consumer products
02:44 AM syyl: haha miss0r
02:45 AM syyl: to true
02:45 AM gloops: however, the components work as they should
02:45 AM Wolf__: truth… the western stuff works, long as you fork over $$$$$ for a full system
02:46 AM gloops: the main fault is using a metal box, where components and shielding etc use the box to ground
02:46 AM gloops: the topology of the box/ground has unfathomable effects on the routing of the ground flows
02:46 AM gloops: that is my conclusion
02:47 AM gloops: if you ground 10 things at different locations in a metal box, that current doesnt just magically disappear through the earth wire
02:49 AM gloops: who knows what loops and poles are forming
03:19 AM Loetmichel: gloops: thats why you usually "star ground" everything
03:20 AM Loetmichel: ... and not with flimsy wire but ideally with flat braid 15*2mm or so
03:24 AM gloops: im taking the grounds off the box, and wiring them seperately
03:24 AM gloops: im taking the vfd out of the box
03:26 AM gloops: if there is a faulty component i suspect the psu, difficult for me to make a connection between any component and the nature of the problem though
03:56 AM dave__ is now known as gloops
05:09 AM jthornton: morning
05:15 AM Deejay: hey
05:17 AM Tom_L: morning
05:17 AM gloops: well ive moved the vfd and the psu well away from the driver, ive moved the spindle cables off the gantry, ive disconnected all the limit switches, im moved all the grounds off the box to seperate wires, wtf can make the pwm talk to a driver/motor! lol
05:18 AM Tom_L: wifi?
05:18 AM gloops: lol, seriously? the pc is pre wifi i think
05:19 AM Tom_L: no, but i'm running out of ideas
05:19 AM gloops: looking like starting over again, i cant find anything at all
05:21 AM jthornton: what is it doing?
05:21 AM gloops: whenever i run the spindle the z motor goes crazy
05:22 AM gloops: when the z motor is under no command to move
05:22 AM Tom_L: oh.. the weather report... 53 and misty rain
05:22 AM jthornton: just the Z motor moves?
05:22 AM gloops: just the z yeah, nothing else
05:23 AM jthornton: is the Z stepper right next to the spindle?
05:23 AM gloops: i suppose i use multimeter to test if a signal is coming from the bob, or the driver while its happening
05:23 AM Loetmichel: gloops: does it get better/wrose with different VFD HZ settings?
05:24 AM gloops: the z stepper is right above the spindle
05:24 AM Tom_L: is it's frame grounded to the control box?
05:24 AM gloops: Loetmichel it doesnt increase with spindle speed it just starts as soon as the spindle moves
05:24 AM gloops: the frame is grounded yeah
05:25 AM gloops: ive removed the spindle and laid it on a board away from the motor - no change
05:25 AM gloops: ive disconnected the limit switch near the motor, there is no spindle cable near the motor
05:25 AM jthornton: that answers the question I was going to ask
05:26 AM Loetmichel: gloops: its more likely EMI into your step/dir signals
05:26 AM Loetmichel: not in the motor cables
05:26 AM gloops: Loetmichel must be, i could probably trace where if i look for activity in the z signal wires, only got multimeter though
05:26 AM Loetmichel: i could move my axes in differend directions and with different speeds depending on the pot position of the VFD :-)
05:27 AM gloops: lol
05:27 AM jthornton: odd that only the Z drive is affected, I assume you have swapped the Z drive with another?
05:27 AM gloops: its a new one to me i had none of this when i just kept everything well away from each other, now its in a box ive got problems, i might start again
05:28 AM Loetmichel: until i shielded the spindle motor cable, grounded it at both ends and put quite thick "clip on" chokes on both ends
05:28 AM gloops: have not changed the z driver no, i have got a spare - but it works fine when the spindle is stood, moves up and down no problem
05:28 AM gloops: there is something else - ive tried 2 different motors
05:29 AM gloops: they make a noise, like an oscillating hissing sound when on that driver
05:29 AM jthornton: I would not think the motor is the issue
05:30 AM gloops: you think the driver could be the issue, i cant see why a dud driver would pick up pwm signals or noise
05:32 AM jthornton: if Z is the only one that is moving it has to be the drive
05:32 AM gloops: right, ill try to keep patient a bit longer and change the drive, got to be ruled out i suppose
05:33 AM Loetmichel: gloops_ could be your wiring
05:33 AM Loetmichel: is z by any means different than x and y?
05:33 AM Loetmichel: longer s/d lines, linver supply lines7GROUND MAYBE; OR ROUTED CLOSE TO THE VFD?
05:34 AM Loetmichel: ups, capslock
05:34 AM gloops: Loetmichel probably, everything is connected as it was before when working, but i have got a lot of cable squashed in a small space now, strange only the z is affected though
05:34 AM gloops: ive moved the vfd out of the box, and the psu, no change at all
05:35 AM jthornton: if it was a general noise problem then all drives would move
05:35 AM gloops: i do remember i burnt the old z driver out shortly before this, although it was replaced with a new one, i wonder if the psu was affected
05:36 AM gloops: i will run it again and see if any voltage is coming from the z driver to the motor while its happening
05:36 AM Loetmichel: gloops: could also be that you forgot a ground line when reassembling
05:36 AM Loetmichel: (or something like that)
05:36 AM gloops: ive checked and checked
05:36 AM gloops: it may be that ill feel an idiot if i do find something
05:43 AM Loetmichel: gloops: happens to everyone... "to the dumbest first" as we say in germany ;)
05:54 AM dave__ is now known as gloops
05:54 AM gloops: ok, multimeter showing the crazy signal is coming from the BOB
05:56 AM jthornton: what happens when you move the Z step and direction to X or Y on the bob?
05:57 AM gloops: so if i put the z wires in the y pins?
05:57 AM jthornton: yea
05:57 AM gloops: or y in the z
05:57 AM jthornton: yea
05:57 AM gloops: ill try it lol
06:08 AM gloops: ok, starting to get scarier
06:08 AM gloops: when the y motor is run from the z pins, the y works fine
06:09 AM gloops: when the spindle is started, the z motor rattles, even though it isnt connected to the bob
06:09 AM gloops: the y motor is unaffected
06:09 AM gloops: so we can say the z driver wiring, or the z driver is picking up some noise?
06:10 AM jthornton: spindle motor and stepper motor wires are in the same cable chain?
06:11 AM gloops: yeah, although i have removed a long part of the spindle wire from the drag chain, and moved it away from the motor, the wires do still meet and over a few feet
06:13 AM jthornton: is all the wiring in the cable chain shielded with the drain connected at one end?
06:15 AM gloops: the wires are 2 core shielded, 2 for the z motor, i put 1 to the spindle and 1 unshielded wire, shielding grounded at box end
06:16 AM gloops: the single unshielded wire is not in the cable line, i pulled it out and its running straight from vfd to spindle, away from other cables and the z motor
06:18 AM jthornton: what does the unshielded wire do?
06:19 AM gloops: its a power line for the spindle, the spindle takes 3 wires, 2 are shielded, 1 is not, i figured 1 unshielded would be ok if all the rest were shielded
06:19 AM gloops: as had run out of shielded wire
06:22 AM jthornton: if you take the unshielded wire out of the cable chain does the Z motor still move?
06:23 AM gloops: yeah, the single wire is already out, i took it completely away from the motor wires its just going straight accross the machine to the spindle - the spindle isnt touching any frame its laid on a pice of wood
06:25 AM gloops: i suppose the z driver is going to have to be ruled out
06:26 AM gloops: it does only happen when the spindle actually starts to rotate, not when its just switched on
06:27 AM XXCoder: gloops: well can always do pure electrics only tests, like I did at first
06:27 AM XXCoder: steppers spinning a flag and such
06:28 AM gloops: theres only the z and y connected up to anything now, y seems ok, z is not, seems to imply either a) the z signal wires are collecting noise in the box - but all the other driver wires are in much the same route
06:29 AM gloops: the driver is faulty
06:29 AM gloops: or something is being pulled by the z motor from the cable line
06:30 AM XXCoder: gonna sleep, but try swap everything one a time
06:30 AM XXCoder: from steppers, wires, drivers
06:30 AM XXCoder: night
06:30 AM gloops: yeah ill keep on it, goodnight
06:49 AM gloops: seems it may have been the driver after all
06:50 AM gloops: that was the first thing i was gonna try as well! man ive stripped half the wiring down haha
06:52 AM gloops: that driver was brand new out of the box, if you shake it it sounds like a rattle, this stuff aint cheap if it takes you 3 days to sort it out
06:59 AM jthornton: I had to take apart the cheap drives I got and "fix" them before use...
07:00 AM gloops: well, not totally sure yet as the y is still wired to the z pins, but running the spindle doesnt affect the z with the new driver in
07:01 AM gloops: these drivers are so cheap its hardly worth fixing them - i wouldnt know how anyway, but its the time factor, if i run out of drivers its a 2 week wait
07:02 AM gloops: its another thing ive learned anyway, the hard way
07:04 AM jthornton: by fixing I mean tighten up screws etc and look for extra crap floating around
07:04 AM jthornton: I only use Gecko drives for my cnc stepper driven machines
07:05 AM gloops: ill have a look at it when i get time, probably nothing, i just need to get this blummin machine finished once and for all
07:06 AM gloops: 1 good thing came of it anyway, i found a dangerous fault in the garage wiring, at least i wont fry myself on that
07:09 AM charlesh_: lord, just wasted like 3 hours of time trying to learn pin files...
07:09 AM gloops: why was it wasted charlesh?
07:10 AM charlesh_: ha, because I couldn't figure it out!
07:10 AM gloops: oh thats just part of it, you did achieve something
07:10 AM gloops: you leared that you couldnt figure it out
07:11 AM charlesh_: yeah, installing the software and editing a pin file. but not sure about the mumbo jumbo module id section
07:11 AM gloops: the next time you look it wont be new
07:11 AM charlesh_: Ha, I like the outlook.
07:13 AM gloops: ive got to get up and re-connect half the wiring on my machine - that didnt need to come off
07:14 AM charlesh_: Ouch
07:15 AM gloops: which truth be known, is my own stupid fault
07:17 AM gloops: nothing on youtube to help with the pin files charlesh_?
07:19 AM charlesh_: Not that I could find.
07:19 AM charlesh_: Just tired of bothering PCW for bit files because I have a lot of hardware combinations that I am trying
07:25 AM charlesh_ is now known as charlesh
07:31 AM IchGucksLive: hi
07:31 AM IchGucksLive: cold rain outside
07:32 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: why dident you connect all coils of the stepepr for a high tourge motor
07:40 AM IchGucksLive: gloops:
07:42 AM IchGucksLive: charlesh_: did you get ahed of the bin and pin files
07:42 AM heathmanc: not at all. Spent a lot of time trying this morning
07:42 AM heathmanc: I have the pin file done with the exception of the module id section which I don't really understand
07:43 AM heathmanc: computer is being IRC stupid right now.
07:43 AM IchGucksLive: ;-)
07:43 AM IchGucksLive: dident pcw unswer
07:43 AM heathmanc: He did, but I didn't receive a new bit file
07:44 AM IchGucksLive: it takes time
07:44 AM heathmanc: Oh, I know, he just didn't say yes or no.
07:44 AM heathmanc: I'm not in a huge hurry, just have a lot of extra time right now after a back surgery
07:45 AM IchGucksLive: he might be looking first its own system if it runs
07:45 AM IchGucksLive: im off
07:45 AM IchGucksLive: till later lots of work here
07:45 AM heathmanc: Later!
07:45 AM heathmanc is now known as charlesh
07:52 AM Tecan: http://www.netpipe.ca/zen/albums/Electronics/i2c-lcd.jpg http://www.netpipe.ca/zen/Electronics/CNC/ closeup of the modbus cnc board
08:40 AM gloops: Ichs - i tried connecting 4 coils, only 2 would work together, in hindsight i wonder if the dodgy driver was preventing that too
09:16 AM JT-Shop: did you connect the coils in series or parallel? You can do either with an 8 wire stepper
09:16 AM JT-Shop: https://knowledge.ni.com/KnowledgeArticleDetails?id=kA00Z000000PAkPSAW
09:53 AM charlesh: When building a bit file using the standard configurations available, is it common to get several errors?
09:54 AM charlesh: using ISE 14.7
10:20 AM charlesh: Well, no errors, just warnings and infos
10:20 AM Roguish: spanky
10:49 AM Loetmichel: hmmm... i wonder if that will work... a bit 1,5mm sheet aluminium "origami" to put a cheap chinese 4 channel IR remote into a metal Enclosure... the two frames are spacers to give room for the aluminum buttons that press the original "clacker" metal buttons... http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17043&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
10:51 AM SpeedEvil: Don't forget stops to prevent smashing the buttons too hard, and allow battery access
11:01 AM gloops: what do you call those plugs that fit the chinese spindles?
11:01 AM gloops: 3 pin with threaded ring
11:09 AM roycroft: are you talking about the power connector, gloops?
11:10 AM gloops: yes
11:11 AM roycroft: the chinese spindles often use 3 pin or 4 pin aviation connectors
11:11 AM gloops: aviation connector thats it thanks
11:11 AM roycroft: but there is no standard connector that they sue
11:11 AM roycroft: use
11:11 AM gloops: ahh
11:11 AM roycroft: best to use the plug that comes with the thing
11:11 AM roycroft: or be prepared to replace both the male and female connectors with a mated pair
11:12 AM gloops: yes, am having problems with spindle, cutting out and throwing error, sounds like a short at the top, maybe the power connector
11:12 AM roycroft: because using a standard connector would be too easy
11:12 AM gloops: ill mess around with it anyway, ive bored this channel enough with my problems haha
11:13 AM roycroft: if they can save $0.00001 per unit by using some weird connector they'll do it
11:14 AM gregcnc_: That is a standard connector
11:14 AM gloops: it may be some drill swarf gone inside, in which case its probably kaput, but the short sound does seem to be right at the top near in the connector area, i had problems wiring it up second time the spade ends just crumbled
11:31 AM fragalot: hi
11:34 AM gregcnc_: I'm impressed. California Air Tools is stepping up and replacing the compressor tank. Reading reviews since I bought it, and being past warranty I wasn't expecting any support.
11:36 AM roycroft: what was wrong with the tank?
11:37 AM gregcnc_: leaking at a motor mount weld
11:37 AM roycroft: oh
11:37 AM roycroft: this leak started over time?
11:38 AM roycroft: probably due to a bad weld and vibration?
11:38 AM gregcnc_: yeah maybe a month ago
11:38 AM gregcnc_: 18 months old
11:40 AM roycroft: it's the kind of thing i'd expect that they would cover past warranty, if anything
11:40 AM roycroft: a weld should last indefinitely
11:43 AM fragalot: especially on a pressure vessel
11:43 AM gregcnc_: transferring the pump and valving will be a hassle but at least it will be fixed
11:43 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:44 AM IchGucksLive: gloops:
11:46 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: around here
11:56 AM hazzy-dev: gregcnc_: My brother just got another California Air Tools Compressor for the airbrush bench. Knowing you had a problem I checked the tank welds and they all look very nice, but it is hard to tell if there are pinholes. Glad to hear they support their products
11:56 AM hazzy-dev: What is an AL tank you had fail?
11:57 AM hazzy-dev: Was it *
11:57 AM Loetmichel: anyone looked at the drawing above?
11:57 AM gregcnc_: 10 gal vertical
11:57 AM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8 till tomorrow
11:57 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: I missed it because my internet connection shat itself
11:57 AM Loetmichel: thats the remote there btw: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17037&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 (third pic from the top)
11:58 AM Loetmichel: so the sequence is: put in 4 buttons in the holes, put in the 2 frame-spacers, put the remote on top, fold the sides and 4 part back into place... and hope that the "puzzle heads" align ;)
11:58 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: that works :)
11:58 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: [17:48] <Loetmichel> hmmm... i wonder if that will work... a bit 1,5mm sheet aluminium "origami" to put a cheap chinese 4 channel IR remote into a metal Enclosure... the two frames are spacers to give room for the aluminum buttons that press the original "clacker" metal buttons... http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17043&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
11:58 AM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: the black rectangle at the bottom is for battery access
11:58 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: adventurous :P
11:59 AM Loetmichel: and the four 8mm holes will accomodate some tunrend aluminium "plungers"
11:59 AM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: why that hard enclosur
11:59 AM gregcnc_: hazzy-dev most of the factory fittings leak
11:59 AM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: steel sheet
11:59 AM Loetmichel: IchGucksLive: because boss sold that switch and its Remote for SO much money that we cant send them china stuff ;)
12:00 PM Loetmichel: aluminum 1,5mm not steel
12:00 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: that still doesn't justify shooting yourself in the foot like this :P
12:00 PM fragalot: what is the reasoning behind the puzzle pieces
12:00 PM hazzy-dev: gregcnc_: Yes, my brother replaces some of them already before putting it in service
12:00 PM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: so trump punch600
12:00 PM fragalot: because those will either not quite align, or not align at all
12:00 PM Loetmichel: to not need any screws on the back
12:00 PM Loetmichel: because no room
12:00 PM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: from black forest 100pcs min
12:01 PM Loetmichel: plan is to fold them into each other and then put a strong glue aluminium tape on the bottom
12:01 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: I don't think the puzzle pieces will do that?
12:01 PM IchGucksLive: fragalot: agree
12:01 PM fragalot: or that you even need them for 1.5mm alu.. how big is this,
12:01 PM IchGucksLive: will not work
12:01 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: [18:56] <Loetmichel> thats the remote there btw: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17037&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 (third pic from the top)
12:02 PM Loetmichel: see my hand
12:02 PM fragalot: even if it does work there is no 'bonus' to it other than internet points :P
12:02 PM IchGucksLive: im off gn8
12:02 PM Loetmichel: its to prevent the underside from opening because of "spring forces" in the bends
12:03 PM fragalot: I think you're setting yourself up for failure :P
12:04 PM Loetmichel: i did something a lot bigger once and it worked like a charm: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16414&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
12:04 PM Loetmichel: i dont see why it shouldnt in smaller ;)
12:04 PM fragalot: either the pieces won't fit, your tolerances will be so tight the bending machine operator quits on the spot, or the tolerances will be so loose that it's not worth doing
12:04 PM Loetmichel: no bending machine
12:04 PM Loetmichel: the alu is scored half thickness on the blue rectangles
12:04 PM Loetmichel: it will be folded by hand
12:05 PM Loetmichel: after inserting the remote and the two frames
12:05 PM fragalot: will it offer sufficient strength against someone dropping it on the table corner then?
12:06 PM Loetmichel: 1,5mm alu: i think so
12:06 PM fragalot: your example is just a simple 2D puzzle
12:06 PM fragalot: you've turned it into a 3D puzzle that requires 8 bends to be PERFECT :P
12:06 PM Loetmichel: yes
12:06 PM Loetmichel: thats what i am a bit weary about ;)
12:07 PM fragalot: 50 internet points say that gloops will get his Z axis fixed before you get that bend right :P
12:07 PM Loetmichel: on the plus side: all the bends are identical, so in theory the back side should fit the front side like a glove
12:08 PM Loetmichel: i will mill it tomorrow and tell if it fits ;)
12:08 PM Loetmichel: with pictures ;)
12:08 PM fragalot: :)
12:30 PM charlesh_: So, I’ve managed to make a working bit file, now I just need a pin file..
12:30 PM charlesh_: Baby steps
12:36 PM Beachbumpete1: hehe
12:38 PM charlesh_: Still don’t know what this module I’d section is all about though. And I don’t need any crazy wiring setups, just standard cards
12:42 PM Beachbumpete1: I'm sitting here playing travel agent for a trip to two cities out west to inspect some CNC equipment we are purchasing.
12:49 PM holzjunkie1 is now known as holzjunkie
01:22 PM Tom_L: Beachbumpete1 private jet?
01:22 PM Tom_L: :)
01:24 PM Beachbumpete1: LOL yeah I wish
01:24 PM Beachbumpete1: actually one of the machines is in Bend Oregon
01:24 PM Beachbumpete1: and I have ALWAYS wanted to see where they filmed the Goonies movie ;)
01:25 PM roycroft: goonies was filmed in astoria
01:26 PM roycroft: there are heaps of microbreweries to visit in bend, though
01:27 PM Beachbumpete1: I am arriving in Portland and will have quite a few hours after inspecting the machine gonna TRY to drive over to the area south of Astoria where they filmed it.
01:27 PM roycroft: part of it was filmed right on the columbia river, on the east side of astoria
01:28 PM roycroft: the really fast bike riding scene was partially filmed at the astoria tower, and partially filmed far away from there
01:28 PM Beachbumpete1: yeah man it is cool I am hoping I get to see it
01:28 PM roycroft: the film was odd for someone familiar with the area
01:28 PM roycroft: astoria is a great town anyway
01:29 PM roycroft: i wouldn't mind living there
01:29 PM Beachbumpete1: where are you?
01:29 PM roycroft: i'm in eugene
01:29 PM roycroft: almost due west of bend
01:29 PM roycroft: but across the mountains, in another universe
01:29 PM roycroft: i used to work in bend
01:29 PM roycroft: that was a heck of a commute
01:30 PM Beachbumpete1: how far would you say in time would it be from Portland to the goonies sites along the ocean?
01:30 PM roycroft: it's about a 3-1/2 hour drive from pdx to astoria
01:30 PM roycroft: along highway 30
01:30 PM roycroft: which is the fastest way to get there
01:31 PM roycroft: and not counting portland traffic
01:31 PM roycroft: which could add another hour easily
01:31 PM Beachbumpete1: damn
01:31 PM roycroft: i know where some of the places are where the film was shot
01:31 PM Beachbumpete1: its supposedly 3.5 hours to bend from PDX
01:31 PM roycroft: we found the neighborhood where the kids lived once
01:31 PM roycroft: and found the houses they used
01:31 PM Beachbumpete1: its online
01:32 PM roycroft: this was before the internet :)
01:32 PM Beachbumpete1: apparenlty the lady that now owns the house no longer likes visitors
01:32 PM roycroft: i can understand that
01:32 PM roycroft: astoria has several microbreweries as well, btw
01:32 PM roycroft: but that can be said for almost any town in oregon
01:33 PM roycroft: astoria has a stout festival every year
01:36 PM Beachbumpete1: how bad is that I26 from PDX to bend?
01:38 PM Beachbumpete1: or is it better to go I22
01:39 PM roycroft: it's not I26
01:39 PM roycroft: it's US 26
01:39 PM roycroft: same with 22
01:39 PM roycroft: any way you go to bend you have to drive over the mountains
01:39 PM roycroft: when are you going?
01:42 PM roycroft: i would take i5 south to albany, then take us22 from albany to bend
01:42 PM roycroft: santiam pass is usually pretty clear
01:44 PM roycroft: er, oregon 22 to us 20
01:45 PM roycroft: keep in mind there can be snow on the passes as late as june
01:45 PM roycroft: santiam pass is 4800' - one of the lower ones
01:45 PM roycroft: but the snow level is at 1500' right now
01:48 PM roycroft: http://www.oregontravels.com/_roads/c_US20_SantiamPass_605.html
01:48 PM roycroft: looks snowy but the road is plowed at the moment
01:51 PM gloops: daughters gone skiing, got to italy came down with food poisoning, some nice photos from the window though
01:55 PM Tom_L: charlesh_
01:56 PM Tom_L: have you seen this: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx14_install_index.php
01:56 PM charlesh_: Yup, that’s where I started!
01:56 PM Tom_L: it's on the wiki as well
01:57 PM charlesh_: I’ve been able to make a bit using standard pin files, but I need a hand with the pin setup for my requirements.
01:57 PM Tom_L: you _will_ get a few warnings though
01:57 PM charlesh_: Yeah, got about 40 maybe
01:57 PM Tom_L: what card are you working with?
01:57 PM Beachbumpete1: roycroft damn that does not look too good man
01:58 PM Beachbumpete1: leaving tomorrow morning actually
01:58 PM charlesh_: I need a pin for 2x7i40, 7i47s, 7i44
01:58 PM charlesh_: Just can’t get my head wrapped around that part
01:59 PM Tom_L: what main card?
01:59 PM charlesh_: 6i49
01:59 PM charlesh_: 4i69
01:59 PM Tom_L: not familiar with that one
01:59 PM charlesh_: I want the pin so I can use it on a 6i24 also
02:00 PM Tom_L: but the bit files are basically the same
02:00 PM Beachbumpete1: do you need chains to go that route?
02:00 PM Tom_L: just get the functions on the right pins
02:01 PM charlesh_: I think I’ve got the pins sorted for the 3 connectors, was a copy and paste job and just update the pin numbers
02:01 PM pcw_mesa: You can use the same pinout files for both (since they are both 72 I/O cards)
02:02 PM charlesh_: Yup, that’s what I was after. It’s the first module I’d section that gets me
02:03 PM pcw_mesa: if you change the pinout you likely also have to change the module ID section (if the number of instances changes or you add a new module or delete a module)
02:03 PM roycroft: at times, beachbumpete1
02:03 PM roycroft: most of the time approved traction tires are fine
02:03 PM roycroft: i.e. all-weather tires
02:03 PM Beachbumpete1: this will be a rental midsize
02:03 PM roycroft: trucks and rvs hae to chain up often
02:03 PM roycroft: tell the rental company you have to drive to central oregon
02:04 PM roycroft: they'll be sure to get you a car with proper tires
02:04 PM roycroft: when are you going again?
02:04 PM Beachbumpete1: ah ok
02:04 PM Tom_L: and insurance :D
02:04 PM Beachbumpete1: tomorrow
02:04 PM roycroft: oh
02:04 PM Beachbumpete1: got insurance on it
02:04 PM roycroft: it's still fairly wintery
02:04 PM roycroft: studded tires are legal until 1 april
02:04 PM Beachbumpete1: sheeit
02:04 PM roycroft: but you should be fine
02:04 PM roycroft: santiam pass is very well-travelled
02:04 PM roycroft: and therefore well-plowed
02:04 PM Beachbumpete1: oh cool my DIY Ibanez guitar kit shipped
02:04 PM roycroft: it's the easiest pass to get over
02:05 PM Beachbumpete1: ok I have to take your word for it
02:05 PM roycroft: mckenzie pass is snowed in until june or july
02:05 PM Tom_L: Beachbumpete1 got it all machined and ready for the kit??
02:05 PM roycroft: you could head east from pdx on i84 and take us97 all the way down
02:05 PM Beachbumpete1: Tom_L no actually this is a complete kit
02:05 PM Beachbumpete1: I am making my own AND making a kit
02:05 PM roycroft: but you're really a lot better off this time of year driving west of the mountains along i5 for as long as possible
02:06 PM Beachbumpete1: I also just bought a cheap stratocaster on offer up last night
02:06 PM roycroft: and i would avoid highway 26
02:06 PM roycroft: bend is on a plateau
02:06 PM roycroft: ~3000', i think
02:06 PM roycroft: so even though it's late march it's still fairly wintery there
02:06 PM roycroft: our climate is vertical here along the west coast
02:07 PM roycroft: 3600'
02:07 PM roycroft: higher than i thought
02:08 PM roycroft: you're lucky though - it's going to be clear in bend all week
02:08 PM roycroft: no snow
02:08 PM roycroft: and it looks like it will be clear in sisters as well
02:09 PM roycroft: that's the first town east of the pass, and is an indicator of what the mountain weather will be like
02:09 PM roycroft: so you should be fine
02:11 PM charlesh: pcw_mesa: Still lost a bit. Is there a listing of the modules or a base pin that will get me really started?
02:12 PM pcw_mesa: in IDROMConst.VHD
02:12 PM roycroft: fortunately it is supposed to clear up west of the mountains as well this week
02:12 PM roycroft: i'm off wed-fri
02:12 PM roycroft: and it would be nice to have some not rainy weather on my vacation days
02:12 PM roycroft: unlike last week when it poured both days i had off
02:12 PM roycroft: and we even got some sleet one of the days
02:13 PM roycroft: they were shop days, so not a total loss
02:17 PM charlesh: Ok, that helps. So there should be no problem with 5 qcoder rev, 5 pwmtag? and I assume 8 sserialtag?
02:19 PM charlesh: something doesn't make sense about it
02:19 PM Tom_L: what are you hooking up that needs 8 sserial?
02:20 PM charlesh: i don't need it, i have a 7i44 on on one of the 50 pin connectors
02:20 PM charlesh: is that just one instance?
02:20 PM Beachbumpete1_: back
02:20 PM Tom_L: you can change those to GPIO
02:20 PM Tom_L: and edit the instance in the header
02:20 PM Tom_L: just figure out where you want it to come out
02:21 PM charlesh: for ease, i would rather just leave the card pinout unchanged.
02:21 PM Tom_L: np
02:21 PM charlesh: this is all going to be wired new so I don't have special requirements
02:22 PM charlesh: I have an IO card on the 7i44 so I'm not concerned about the GPIO
02:23 PM Tom_L: if you find out later you need something move, you can...
02:23 PM Tom_L: moved*
02:24 PM charlesh: Yup, this initial hurdle is the problem
02:35 PM emc is now known as JT-Shop-2
02:38 PM pcw_mesa: 8 sserials is normally one instance (sserial interfaces can have 1 through 8 channels per instance)
02:39 PM charlesh: Ok.
02:40 PM charlesh: Pretty sure I don't have the patience for this.. hahaha
02:40 PM pcw_mesa: easiest to look at other PIN_XXX.vhd files and copy/paste whole connectors worth of pins and then fix the instance numbers in the pinout and patch the module ID to match
02:40 PM charlesh: That's where i've started
02:40 PM charlesh: i took 3 pin files, copied the whole connector data over, changed the pin numbers
02:41 PM charlesh: Just don't have a grasp of the instance numbers in the pinout
02:44 PM pcw_mesa: the second field after the IOPort tag in the pinout is the instance number (starting with 0) so if you have 3 stepgens they would have instance numbers 0,1,2 on both their step and dir pins
02:46 PM pcw_mesa: (and if thats all the stepgens you would have "3" in the fourth field of the stepgen module ID line)
02:47 PM charlesh: Sounds easy enough
02:49 PM charlesh: Question is now about encoders..
02:50 PM charlesh: so, a single 50 pin connector will handle 6 pwm and 6 encoders.. the pin file i'm using has the lines already there, i only need 4 each on connector 1 I'm assuming for 2x7i40
02:54 PM charlesh: i suppose the SVST4_4 is what I want for that connector?
02:54 PM charlesh: that will work with 1 7i33 or 2x7i40?
02:55 PM charlesh: on one connector
03:02 PM Tom_L: what are you building?
03:03 PM charlesh: a hobby mill...
03:03 PM charlesh: I just like control systems, but this one's got me
03:03 PM Tom_L: nice, i just finished one
03:04 PM Tom_L: what mill?
03:04 PM Tom_L: i did mine from the ground up
03:04 PM charlesh: this is on a g0704
03:04 PM charlesh: i've got a taig that i did awhile back with AC servos
03:04 PM charlesh: but it's a tinker toy
03:04 PM Tom_L: servos are nice but $$
03:05 PM charlesh: this g0704 has dc brushed servos
03:05 PM charlesh: i collect things randomly over the years. I am retiring from the air force in a couple of months and now have some free time
03:05 PM charlesh: and a back surgery a couple of weeks ago, so i'm trying to be productive
03:06 PM Tom_L: wasn't from parachuting was it?
03:06 PM Tom_L: another friend i chat with is about 3" shorter now because of that
03:06 PM Tom_L: discharged
03:06 PM charlesh: lol, nope. had a couple of torn discs when I was 26. I'm a helicopter mechanic.
03:07 PM Tom_L: one of his trainees got tangled in his chute as i'm told
03:08 PM Tom_L: so he freefalled a bit too long
03:08 PM charlesh: ouch. won't catch me in the air doing anything like that
03:09 PM charlesh: at 20 years now, need to stay alive to enjoy retirement. and to be frustrated by this pin file
03:09 PM Tom_L: you'll figure it out
03:10 PM charlesh: god, i hope so
03:30 PM charlesh: here goes nothing! generating now!
03:30 PM charlesh: ha, didn't work.. fatal error
03:30 PM charlesh: FATAL_ERROR:Bitstream:stanbsbitfile.c:3408:1.57 - Incorrect number of bits in
03:30 PM charlesh: bitstream (18) for FDRI write. For technical support on this issue, please
03:30 PM charlesh: visit http://www.xilinx.com/support.
03:31 PM Tom_L: double check your functions match your header instances
03:31 PM Tom_L: and the pin numbers are correct
03:51 PM charlesh: Well, here it goes again!
03:52 PM charlesh: Well damn, same error
03:53 PM charlesh: what is the 2nd field for in the instance lines?
03:59 PM charlesh: and does the tabbing matter?
04:09 PM charlesh: well, it generated!! now to set something on fire!
04:11 PM Deejay: gn8
04:27 PM charlesh: well, linuxcnc starts, but I don't get encoder readings
04:30 PM Tom_L: 'TAG, VERSION, CLOCK, INSTANCES, BASE ADDRESS, NUMBER OF REGISTERS, STRIDES, MPBITMASK'
04:31 PM Tom_L: i don't think you're interested in the 2nd field
04:33 PM Tom_L: you can dmesg to see what you've got
04:34 PM Tom_L: dmesg -c to clear the buffer then start linuxcnc and dmesg > something.txt if you wanna view it in an editor
04:45 PM charlesh: didn't find anything there
04:46 PM charlesh: don't quite understand it, i'm comparing the dmesg output to one that works, the pinout looks the same on that connector, but i get nothing
04:47 PM Tom_L: did you renumber the pins when you copied and pasted it?
04:49 PM charlesh: didn't have to for that connector
04:49 PM charlesh: it's p1, they were already 0-23
04:49 PM Tom_L: ok
05:12 PM charlesh: argh.
06:00 PM andypugh: Either he has been murdered, or noticed the problem.
06:03 PM charlesh: ha, i wish either of them right now
06:04 PM charlesh: about to chuck this stuff somewhere!
06:04 PM charlesh: well damn, now you say that, I find that i have two instances of 0 for and encoder
06:05 PM charlesh: here it goes again
06:05 PM gloops: thats it looks like youre getting the hang of it charlesh
06:06 PM charlesh: been at it for a long time today. I'm determined, and frustrated.
06:06 PM andypugh: I missed the start
06:07 PM andypugh: I am guessing this is a Mesa setup?
06:07 PM Tom_L: bit file
06:07 PM charlesh: yes.
06:07 PM andypugh: Right, so a custom bitfile?
06:07 PM Tom_L: it's intertaining
06:07 PM charlesh: yes.
06:07 PM charlesh: It is entertaining. I'm on the verge of greatness.
06:07 PM andypugh: Hmm, thet does count as a project.
06:08 PM andypugh: The bitfile is creating pins in HAL?
06:08 PM Tom_L: does it have to involve casting something to be a project??
06:09 PM Tom_L: i'm not entirely sure what cards he's adding
06:09 PM charlesh: 2x7i40, 7i47s, 7i44
06:11 PM charlesh: well shit, it works!
06:12 PM gloops: easy
06:13 PM charlesh: kept thinking it was something in the pin file for the connector that the encoder is one, but just a wrong instance number on the next connector encoder
06:13 PM Tom_L: now feel free to fix gloops's spindle
06:14 PM gloops: haha
06:14 PM charlesh: I could possibly do it, I'm pretty much a wizard now.
06:14 PM gloops: if it doesnt work in the morning im not going to fix it im buying a new one
06:15 PM gloops: i cant standz na more!
06:15 PM Tom_L: i thought for a min you had it narrowed to the bob?
06:15 PM charlesh: for the sserial, do I need to add something to the hal to enable it now?
06:15 PM charlesh: dmesg shows smart serial v43
06:16 PM Tom_L: yeah i think so
06:16 PM gloops: oh no i sorted that problem, - bad driver
06:16 PM gloops: then i revved the spindle up - shorts out
06:16 PM charlesh: the pins just don't show up as anything other than gpio at the moment. don't have the 7i44 yet.
06:16 PM andypugh: Smart serial _should_ all just work when connected.
06:16 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure they ever will, i can't honestly remembe
06:17 PM gloops: i reckon i brought something in with this old tackle i bought, too many things going wrong
06:17 PM charlesh: Ok, didn't know if i needed to load a module or declare it like numbencoders or something.
06:17 PM andypugh: The FPGA pins wil show as smart-serial TX and RX if they find a connected device, and GPIO otherwise
06:18 PM Tom_L: CONFIG="num_encoders=2 num_stepgens=3 num_pwmgens=1 sserial_port_0=20xxxxxx"
06:18 PM charlesh: Ok, should work, seemed simple enough to generate the pin portion for that card.
06:18 PM Tom_L: something like that i believe
06:18 PM charlesh: ok, didn't do that.
06:18 PM Tom_L: in [hostmot2] section
06:18 PM andypugh: You can turn on and off smart-serial channels, and set each channel to particular software mode. But in general Port 0 defaults to all-on. (Port 1 defaults to all-off, which is something I ought to fix)
06:20 PM ferdna: can you guys help me with power supplies
06:20 PM andypugh: leaving out “sserial_port_0=“ is equivalent to “sserial_port_0=00000000” which is all channels enabled, all in mode 0.
06:20 PM Tom_L: could it sense cards and turn on if found?
06:20 PM andypugh: It does
06:20 PM charlesh: so, I can just ignore it and let it do its thing
06:20 PM Tom_L: you might still need the config line
06:21 PM charlesh: ok
06:21 PM Tom_L: DRIVER=hm2_7i90
06:21 PM Tom_L: BOARD=7i90
06:21 PM Tom_L: etc
06:21 PM Tom_L: also
06:21 PM andypugh: ferdna: What sort of power supply?
06:22 PM ferdna: andypugh, exactly...
06:22 PM ferdna: what should i use for my motors?
06:22 PM andypugh: That depends on the motors
06:22 PM Tom_L: oh, you're making a 4 axis stepper mill right?
06:22 PM ferdna: yes!
06:22 PM Tom_L: gecko drivers
06:22 PM ferdna: yes
06:22 PM Tom_L: and a noisy ass spindle
06:22 PM ferdna: andypugh, what should i look for?
06:23 PM ferdna: Tom_L, nope. it is integrated...
06:23 PM Tom_L: 48+ volts
06:23 PM ferdna: Tom_L, can i have the url to url cnc machine?
06:24 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/
06:24 PM Tom_L: it's all in there somewhere
06:24 PM ferdna: thnks
06:24 PM andypugh: You need a current rating suitable for the total motor current (with servos you can go lower, but steppers take max current when stationary, and that happens often)
06:25 PM Tom_L: he's got some nice drivers
06:25 PM charlesh: Ok, it's added, guess I'll have to wait for the 7i44 and 7i73
06:25 PM Tom_L: newer than the 203v
06:25 PM Tom_L: andypugh, they make some dual mode ones now
06:26 PM ferdna: andypugh, total motor current? amps?
06:26 PM Tom_L: yeah
06:27 PM Tom_L: plus a safety factor
06:27 PM ferdna: so
06:27 PM ferdna: hold on
06:27 PM Tom_L: however your drivers have idle current shutdown which lowers the current to them
06:28 PM ferdna: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-NEMA23-570OZ-IN-5A-3-8-DUAL-SHAFT-STEPPER-MOTOR-KL23H2100-50-4BC/112815926571
06:28 PM ferdna: i have two of those
06:28 PM andypugh: I don’t think you actually need a safety factor for the PSU, not really.
06:28 PM andypugh: If you have 4 x 10A motors then a 40A supply will be fine
06:29 PM charlesh: a 12-15amp should do you if you're using idle current reduction
06:29 PM charlesh: what kind of mill?
06:29 PM Tom_L: ferdna, you got the 214 right?
06:29 PM Tom_L: http://www.geckodrive.com/featured-products/g214-55.html
06:30 PM ferdna: yes tom
06:30 PM ferdna: wait no
06:30 PM ferdna: the g215
06:30 PM enleth: any interesting ideas for uniformly thinning an end of a 4mm dia nylon tubing by about 0.1-0.15mm?
06:30 PM ferdna: http://www.geckodrive.com/featured-products/gm215-step-motor-motion-controller-44.html
06:30 PM Tom_L: yeah, that's got the builtin motion controller
06:31 PM Tom_L: which you can enable/disable
06:31 PM ferdna: correct
06:31 PM charlesh: those are fancy, hadn't looked at gecko line of stuff in years.
06:31 PM andypugh: enleth: Once or 1000 times?
06:32 PM enleth: the original Bijur tubing in my machine was 5/32, actually 3.91-3.93mm, and the new Chinese 4mm tubing is about 4.07-4.11
06:32 PM enleth: and it doesn't want to go into holes in castings very well at all
06:32 PM enleth: it was a tight fit for the original tubing to begin with
06:32 PM andypugh: Squeeze it in a 5/32 collet?
06:33 PM enleth: could work with the help of a heat gun
06:33 PM charlesh: a little heat goes a long way
06:33 PM enleth: actually, I might try it with just a 4mm ER16 collet, thanks
06:33 PM enleth: it will squeeze down to 3.9mm easily
06:33 PM andypugh: (I confess I am quite pleased with that idea)
06:33 PM ferdna: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/will_it_fit.jpg
06:34 PM Tom_L: i was just bench testing it there
06:34 PM enleth: I already bent that tubing using a heat gun (and some insulated wire that just happened to fit snugly inside, to prevent the tubing from collapsing)
06:34 PM andypugh: That’s an excess of PSU in my opinion.
06:34 PM charlesh: How big are those transformers?
06:34 PM Tom_L: i agree
06:34 PM charlesh: a lot of beef for steppers
06:35 PM Tom_L: but it was local surplus so i got all 3 transformers
06:35 PM Tom_L: one would likely be enough
06:35 PM Tom_L: 18A i think
06:36 PM charlesh: haha, one should probably be enough!
06:36 PM andypugh: https://photos.app.goo.gl/jzyb70BOXDyZ32Gt2 is the PSU _and_ the drives for 2kW of motos on my lathe.
06:36 PM charlesh: what kind of drives are on that?
06:36 PM Tom_L: you've blown something in it though .... i forget what now
06:36 PM andypugh: Though that has the advantage of running on rectified mains, so no transformer.
06:37 PM charlesh: almost cheating.
06:37 PM andypugh: Tom_L: That was a different one. And I blew up a resistor enough to punch the end terminal through 1mm alumnium on that one.
06:37 PM ferdna: Tom_L, you didnt go with standard stuff... =\
06:37 PM Tom_L: heh
06:37 PM enleth: andypugh: actually I figured out now that a collet (and a wire pushed inside) would be very nice for a sharp bend at the end of the tubing too
06:37 PM Tom_L: ferdna what do you mean?
06:37 PM enleth: better than pliers
06:38 PM ferdna: Tom_L, like a standard sold power supply...
06:38 PM Tom_L: i got what i had available surplus etc
06:38 PM ferdna: yeah
06:38 PM ferdna: andypugh, neutronic plugs
06:38 PM Tom_L: low budget but functional
06:38 PM ferdna: yeah
06:38 PM Tom_L: more fun doing it yourself
06:39 PM enleth: anyway, if you ever happen to have to refit a machine that used imperial Bijur oiling system parts with new metric parts, do note that metric tubing is slightly thicker
06:39 PM enleth: if I knew beforehand, I'd have reamed the holes in castings
06:39 PM enleth: when I had the machine apart
06:39 PM enleth: but I'm too lazy to take it apart again just for this
06:39 PM Tom_L: enleth just for kicks i checked fastenal today
06:39 PM Tom_L: nothing in stock and $$$
06:40 PM enleth: Tom_L: I can't quite put that in context right now
06:40 PM andypugh: ferdna: Neutrik, yes. Rated 40A, more than adequate. (I did ask Neutrik, and they said they would be fine)
06:41 PM Tom_L: enleth checking for those connectors
06:41 PM enleth: Tom_L: ah, we were discussing those lubrication parts some time ago, right
06:41 PM Tom_L: yeah
06:41 PM enleth: well, maybe just order that stuff from China
06:41 PM ferdna: andypugh, those are 3 pin, no?
06:42 PM sync: not shielded tho
06:42 PM enleth: it's screw-on, not push-in, but it's quite pleasant to work with
06:42 PM Tom_L: the tube is push in right?
06:42 PM enleth: I've got a bunch of photos of the process I have yet to upload
06:42 PM andypugh: ferdna: No, 4 pole
06:42 PM ferdna: nice
06:43 PM enleth: Tom_L: the Bijur-like system is assembled using threaded nuts and sleeves
06:43 PM andypugh: 3-pole for the power input (PowerCON) but the outputs are 4-pole stereo speaker connectors (SpeakCON)
06:44 PM andypugh: I really like them, they are well-engineered with really good multi-leaf wiping contacts. And cheap too.
06:44 PM enleth: Tom_L: for the oiling points themselves, you have a choice of making a threaded hole with a ferrule seat for sealing, then use a threaded sleeve, or just a hole drilled to a press fit with the tubing
06:45 PM ferdna: also,
06:45 PM ferdna: do i need a power supply for each motor?
06:45 PM ferdna: ive seen builds where they only have one...
06:45 PM ferdna: and others where they have 3
06:45 PM andypugh: No, in fact it is better to share one larger one.
06:46 PM ferdna: oh
06:46 PM charlesh: You will never have 3 maxed out at one time, save yourself some money
06:46 PM andypugh: You get the advantage of diversity
06:46 PM charlesh: get a decent toroid from somewhere like antek. Or a switch mode if you want.
06:46 PM ferdna: so, how many amps do i need then?
06:46 PM CaptHindsight: vs more points of failure
06:47 PM ferdna: CaptHindsight, true
06:47 PM charlesh: if they are rated at 5 amp/motor, 15 max will do you, especially if it's a wire wound transformer.
06:48 PM charlesh: http://www.antekinc.com/ps-10n63-1000w-63v-power-supply/
06:49 PM charlesh: something like this is more than sufficient.
06:50 PM enleth: charlesh: there are a couple gotchas with using a switchmode supply to power big motors, it helps to have a lot of additional DC bus capacitance and some sort of a clamping/crowbar circuit with a high powered resistor
06:50 PM charlesh: I don't like to use them, was just an option.
06:51 PM charlesh: I'm a big fan of the antek offerings. I have a ton of them.
06:52 PM CaptHindsight: ferdna: buyer beware, free advice without warranty, do your homework, etc
06:52 PM ferdna: cool
06:52 PM charlesh: I do not sponsor my message...
06:52 PM andypugh: For stepper drives I have heard that unregulated is better (it’s all current-controlled anyway, so the actual voltage isn’t that important, within limits)
06:52 PM MarkusBec: i think a meanwell powersupply is these days the better option
06:53 PM charlesh: I agree andypugh
06:53 PM ferdna: charlesh, that one you linked is 15.9A
06:53 PM ferdna: that is plenty?
06:53 PM charlesh: yes. way plenty
06:53 PM charlesh: those are only 5amp motors right?
06:53 PM ferdna: i have 4 motors
06:53 PM MarkusBec: i think most of this use a toroid is out of the 90tes where switching power supplys were crap
06:54 PM charlesh: can't beat a toroid. not much to go wrong with them.
06:55 PM enleth: charlesh: I am using switchmodes in my mill, they work fine, they're small and I got them cheap so I'm happy, just wanted to point out that some precautions need to be taken
06:55 PM Tom_L: they're more efficient than the iron core like i have right?
06:55 PM ferdna: my nema23 are 5A each... my nema34 are 6A each....
06:55 PM ferdna: 2 and 2
06:56 PM charlesh: I have a mill with a SMPS and leadshine drivers, no issues with them.
06:56 PM charlesh: Since you are using Gecko drives, i would look here http://www.geckodrive.com/support/step-motor-basics/power-supply-basics.html
06:57 PM MarkusBec: https://www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/MEAN-WELL/HEP-600-54?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs2%252bVrH5rwl1o7vNPaM590R%2fszUzAtypIC1VpJB2d61Cw%3d%3d
06:57 PM charlesh: gecko recommends an unregulated supply, just size it appropriately.
06:58 PM MarkusBec: thats the ip65 version
06:58 PM enleth: charlesh: to put it in context, the mill I'm talking about has three ~2.5kW DC servos and effectively about 400kg of moving mass that goes up to 7m/min (275ipm), there's quite a bit of energy stored in there that needs to go *somewhere* during braking and the SMPSes are not designed to take it back
06:59 PM charlesh: I know, I'm sure we're on the same page!
06:59 PM CaptHindsight: ferdna: http://www.geckodrive.com/support/step-motor-basics/power-supply-basics.html
06:59 PM CaptHindsight: ferdna: https://www.motioncontroltips.com/faq-size-stepper-motor-power-supplies/
06:59 PM charlesh: lol
07:00 PM MarkusBec: enleth: but a transformer also can not handle it
07:00 PM MarkusBec: because there is a rectifier
07:00 PM enleth: charlesh: so I used a hefty capacitor banks and some diodes on power supply outputs - on braking, the capacitor bank is just charged up to a voltage way higher than what the supplies produce, the servo drives then use up this energy in subsequent moves while the supplies idle for a bit
07:00 PM ferdna: *reading*
07:01 PM MarkusBec: and you can add more capacitans to both systems
07:01 PM charlesh: i prefer to just find drives that use braking resistors.
07:01 PM MarkusBec: yes
07:02 PM MarkusBec: or drive that work out of 230V/110V
07:02 PM MarkusBec: and can power what ever you want :)
07:03 PM charlesh: even those drives sometimes require braking resistors
07:03 PM MarkusBec: yep
07:03 PM MarkusBec: or they can do regenerativ breaking
07:03 PM MarkusBec: powering back in AC mains
07:03 PM charlesh: even my small ultra3000 drives have resistive brake modules
07:03 PM enleth: I calculated the worst possible case of everything braking from full speed as fast as the drives can handle, figured out how much capacitance it takes to store this much energy at a voltage below the absolute maximum input voltage of the drives and used that. it's a bunch of capacitors in there, but less hassle than designing a crowbar circuit
07:05 PM Tom_L: just put the braking resistor on your workbench so you can keep your coffee warm
07:06 PM charlesh: Now we're talking. or under the desk so my feet don't freeze.
07:06 PM enleth: Tom_L: I'm using a small electric kettle as a test braking resistor for VFDs, as per andypugh's suggestion
07:06 PM Tom_L: quite a few have used stove elements for resistors
07:06 PM enleth: kettle is more convenient, just fill it up and go
07:07 PM charlesh: any of you guys got experience with a wj200 hitachi VFD?
07:08 PM charlesh: I've got one around somewhere and plan on making a setup with it for some rigid tapping, do I need to look elsewhere?
07:09 PM andypugh: No, wj200 is a good choice.
07:09 PM Tom_L: i need to find a cheap servo setup i can use for a spindle motor
07:09 PM charlesh: I tried to run the thing awhile back, don't remember having a lot of luck using the analog input on it.
07:09 PM charlesh: I don't remember what I was trying to use to send the signal, but i've got the 7i47s now that hopefully solves my problem
07:10 PM andypugh: There is a modbus driver for the WJ200 too: http://linuxcnc.org/lucid/docs/devel/html/man/man9/wj200_vfd.9.html
07:10 PM Tom_L: it's 0-10v not +10 - -10
07:10 PM charlesh: yup
07:10 PM Tom_L: i'm using one on my new mill
07:10 PM charlesh: something was goofy if I remember, couldn't get it to stop spinning at 0v
07:11 PM andypugh: You probably need to turn it off, too
07:11 PM Tom_L: enable signal off
07:11 PM charlesh: I'm sure that would have resolved it, I was just screwing around on a bench.
07:11 PM charlesh: with a 24k spindle, that's not what it's going to be powering.
07:12 PM charlesh: I'm trying to hunt down a motor right now somewhere in the 3/4hp range
07:12 PM enleth: charlesh: no experience with that particular VFD, but if I had to take a guess, I'd say it's got a configurable mapping between that 0-10v and the output frequency - probably 0 was mapped to a non-zero frequency
07:12 PM enleth: charlesh: or had a hard lower frequency limit set
07:12 PM charlesh: Yeah, I will have to do some research. wasn't ready for it at the time.
07:13 PM charlesh: looking for something in the 5k rpm range right now
07:16 PM Tom_L: how do oz/in relate to HP?
07:17 PM skunkworks: in-oz at a rpm is hp
07:18 PM Roguish: Tom_L: torque times speed = power just gotta keep the units straight.
07:19 PM andypugh: Torque x speed = power. But only really in rad.sec and Nm (then it is watts)
07:19 PM andypugh: Well, we seem to agree at least :-)
07:19 PM Tom_L: iirc, this little sherline motor is around .6hp
07:19 PM Roguish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower
07:20 PM Tom_L: i'd like to find a servo that was at least half again as much more than that
07:21 PM Tom_L: and possibly run it off those bigass transformers i've got
07:24 PM skunkworks: andypugh, did you get a chance to try the wifi.scan-rand-mac-address=no?
07:25 PM andypugh: skunkworks: There is no point with the TP-link thing, but I ought to try it with the other ones
07:25 PM skunkworks: right - this is just for the issue where it sees the wifi - but doesn't seem to connect
07:26 PM skunkworks: The only reason I researched it was the dongle worked with wheezy, ubuntu but for some reason stopped working with stretch
07:29 PM gregcnc_: andypugh the mfg is replacing the compressor tank
07:37 PM andypugh: skunkworks: It works!
07:37 PM Tom_L: gregcnc_ you can put away your sheetmetal screws
07:37 PM skunkworks: andypugh, Yah!
07:38 PM andypugh: gregcnc_: I thought they might. 18 months is just embarassing, they could never claim that was acceptable for a pressure vessel
07:39 PM gregcnc_: I was actually surprised considering the crap reviews people give them. I think people just give up to easily or get too mad.
07:39 PM enleth: Tom_L: to elaborate some more on your torque/power questions - look up torque curves for different motor types and models
07:43 PM enleth: Tom_L: the shape of a torque curve sort of results from the design of the motor, but there usually is a well-defined peak (usually right before the point where the flat part of the curve starts to fall off) where torque times speed results in maximum rated power
07:44 PM Tom_L: right
07:44 PM gregcnc_: Tom_L something like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/132553675380
07:46 PM enleth: Tom_L: it helps understanding it correctly if you imagine plotting output power over the same graph - the flat part of the torque curve would actually correspond to a rising slope on the power curve - constant torque at an increasing speed is still more power
07:50 PM enleth: Tom_L: you can easily calculate theoretical maximum torque of a motor from the power rating on the nameplate, but up until that peak, the actual torque is obviously going to be lower as a real motor's torque is limited by the magnetic properties of whatever innards it has, it just can't pull the rotor against the stator any harder than some value regardless of RPMs
07:51 PM enleth: after you cross the peak, torque falls off in some fashion that is again dependent on the motor design but if you squint very hard and look at it kinda sideways, it is often roughly linear and more or less follows what you'd get by dividing the rated power by RPM
07:51 PM enleth: (in rad/s, obviously)
07:54 PM Tom_itx: evidently this is the curve for the sherline motor: https://sherline.com/standard-dimensions-of-sherline-tools/
07:54 PM Tom_L: and not direct link...
07:54 PM Tom_L: no*
07:55 PM Tom_itx: https://sherline.com/Wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/motor_crv.jpg
07:56 PM gregcnc_: just a DC motor curve, not an actual rating
07:56 PM Tom_L: they don't give you much to go on
07:57 PM Tom_L: it works fine (with limitations) but i think the mill could handle a beefier spindle
08:00 PM Tom_L: 60W @ 10 oz/in @ 6100rpm
08:00 PM andypugh: Right. I should have been asleep hours ago.
08:00 PM Tom_L: look what you would have missed
08:01 PM andypugh: I would have missed fixing my WiFi
08:01 PM Tom_L: heh
08:02 PM Crom: having a tux color map issue on running linuxcnc 2.8.0-pre1 compiled on my Mint 18.1 boxen
08:04 PM XXCoder: heys
08:04 PM XXCoder: who adviced me on AP last time chatted about?
08:05 PM gregcnc_: Tom_L how are you driving your spindle now?
08:07 PM gregcnc_: If you supply more voltage than stock, and you drive it with RPM feed back you can get quite a bit more power from it at high RPM.
08:08 PM Tom_L: stock sherline driver
08:10 PM gregcnc_: I couldn't find a spec sheet for that motor I linked it must be old. but sherline seems to have similar torque anyway.
08:38 PM Tom_L: i was looking at some of the automation servos
11:05 PM fragalot: hi
11:05 PM Tom_L: ho
11:50 PM JC: Would anyone know what might cause the mode dropdown in pncconf for a 7i77 to be greyed out?