#linuxcnc Logs

Mar 19 2018

12:58 AM fragalot: hi
01:01 AM pink_vampire: Loetmichel: are you here?
01:14 AM elbartek: hi
01:14 AM Loetmichel: i am now
01:15 AM Loetmichel: @ pink_vampire
01:16 AM XXCoder: heys
01:24 AM pink_vampire: cool!
01:24 AM pink_vampire: my Z axis motor die, and I'm going to replace it.
01:25 AM pink_vampire: and I want to reduce the RF noise from it.
01:25 AM pink_vampire: Loetmichel: do you think it will be better to move the servo controller next to the motor?
01:26 AM renz: why it die
01:28 AM pink_vampire: gib was closed and it run for few hours like that
01:28 AM miss0r: o/ pink_vampire
01:28 AM Loetmichel: Depends on your setup. Usually stepper motors are perfectly OK for small to medium machines, servo controllers are better for large machines.
01:29 AM miss0r: Have you made a video of your new machining speed?
01:29 AM Loetmichel: and RF noise is about the same on both types.
01:29 AM pink_vampire: now i have about 3 meters of wires between the motor and the servo controller
01:29 AM Loetmichel: If anything you have more "fun" shielding the encoders of a servo drive from the motor noise than with an (open loop) stepper
01:30 AM Loetmichel: ah
01:30 AM Loetmichel: sorry misread that
01:30 AM Loetmichel: you already have servo and want to move the controller physically?
01:30 AM pink_vampire: yes
01:30 AM pink_vampire: to mount it on the motor
01:31 AM pink_vampire: to reduce the length of the wires from the servo controller (G320X) to the motor
01:31 AM Loetmichel: also depends. its usually easier mechanically to mount the controller away from the motor. IF you have the room to mount it directly on the motor it should be easier to shield any RF.
01:33 AM Loetmichel: the backlash you get from that is that you have very low amplidute step/dir signals running thru a RF polluted cable chain (from the other motors) wich can be a PITA to shield
01:33 AM pink_vampire: I think to build an aluminum box that will contain the servo controller, and the encoder on the top on the motor
01:33 AM XXCoder: pink_vampire: doh what happened with gib being closed?
01:34 AM Wolf__: translate= axis locked
01:34 AM Loetmichel: Also dont forget that the controller needs cooling, and you will have "fun" trying to get that cooled without swarf gettting into the electronics directly above the Spindle
01:35 AM renz: eh, closed Al case, heatsink on outside
01:35 AM Loetmichel: could work
01:35 AM pink_vampire: yeah, this is what I think to do
01:35 AM renz: a lot of those controllers will be fine mounted on a big Al panel
01:35 AM pink_vampire: http://www.stefanv.com/rcstuff/qf200005.html
01:35 AM XXCoder: water cooled piped (closed system, no electrics needed to pump water)
01:36 AM pink_vampire: other option is to ass those capacitors and coils on the motor
01:36 AM renz: nice
01:37 AM XXCoder: lol
01:42 AM Loetmichel: any DC servo should already have those cap/choke filter on their back
01:42 AM pink_vampire: there is nothing!!
01:43 AM Loetmichel: but anyways, have to go to work now. back in ~15 min.
01:43 AM Wolf__: high quality...
01:44 AM pink_vampire: they work amazing
01:44 AM pink_vampire: I love them
01:45 AM pink_vampire: this is the motor https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema-34-dc-servo-motor/skewed-rear-shaft/
01:46 AM Wolf__: meh brushed
01:47 AM pink_vampire: the torque on low speed is amazing
01:49 AM IchGucksLive: hi
01:50 AM miss0r: hello
01:51 AM XXCoder: heys
01:51 AM IchGucksLive: icy roads here very cold
01:52 AM miss0r: here as well. Last time I checked the weather report, it was supposed to be above 0. This morning I had -9c
01:56 AM * fragalot is not looking forward to driving to work today
01:56 AM * miss0r is not looking forward to driving to the dentist today
01:56 AM fragalot: drive here instead. I'll do it for free
01:57 AM miss0r: hahaha I'm sure
01:57 AM fragalot: the knipex 87 01 125 is perfect for that kind of stuff.
01:58 AM miss0r: i was hoping for some cnc controlled jack hammer
01:58 AM fragalot: i've got a miniature jackhammer on my foredom?
01:58 AM IchGucksLive: im off till later
02:31 AM Loetmichel: miss0r: car said -4°c when i started my commute 45min ago
02:31 AM Loetmichel: pink_vampire: back
02:34 AM Vq: Probably about the same here in Kalmar. At least it's sunny so it doesn't feel that bad.
03:00 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-3-Digital-LED-Blue-Tachometer-RPM-Speed-Meter-Hall-Proximity-Switch-Sensor-N/332486666446?
03:00 AM gloops: cant these be used for encoding for cnc ?
03:06 AM XXCoder: whats its hz?
03:06 AM XXCoder: ah 100 Hz
03:06 AM gloops: 100
03:07 AM XXCoder: that maxes out sense to, assuming one trigger per rotation, 100 times a second
03:07 AM XXCoder: thats 100 rpm
03:07 AM gloops: Measure range: 10 ~ 9999RPM
03:07 AM XXCoder: you need rpm per second max * triggers per rotation + fudge factor to prevent maxing out sensor
03:07 AM XXCoder: well yes display can display that
03:08 AM XXCoder: sensor cant be that fast
03:08 AM gloops: 1 pulse per rotation isnt much good i wouldnt have thought
03:08 AM gloops: we have had these discussions before but i keep forgetting
03:09 AM XXCoder: I had one of those
03:09 AM XXCoder: it didnt work well LOL
03:09 AM XXCoder: so I got 1000 Hz
03:09 AM gloops: there was some cheap hack that could be used
03:09 AM XXCoder: yeah divider something
03:10 AM gloops: apart from making your own sensor with a drilled disc
03:11 AM Deejay: moin
03:14 AM gloops: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rotary-encoders/7967806/
03:16 AM gloops: stuff like that is in everyday electronics im sure
03:16 AM gloops: stuff that gets thrown out
03:18 AM XXCoder: 3 bit encoder looks like
03:18 AM XXCoder: pretty cheap I guess
03:18 AM gloops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QPQVmoT3zA CD ROM drive
03:20 AM gloops: not many per rev though..
03:21 AM XXCoder: well it may be close enough to twell you rpm
03:21 AM gloops: yeah, i want position really not so much rpm
03:21 AM XXCoder: yeah
03:22 AM gloops: ill read up on it there are some tutorials
03:22 AM XXCoder: though may be able to confugure HAL to use movement to get position of spindle
03:22 AM XXCoder: or axis
03:22 AM gloops: but i basically need a pulse to send to linuxcnc i think
03:23 AM XXCoder: well theres 2 ways
03:23 AM XXCoder: pulusing like you said
03:24 AM XXCoder: and encoders send current position, in bits
03:24 AM XXCoder: 8 bit encoder would be pretty darn accurate
03:24 AM XXCoder: 4 bit gives you 2^4 positions
03:25 AM gloops: linuxcnc calculates the position if you just send a pulse?
03:26 AM XXCoder: hmm actually not when just puluses
03:26 AM XXCoder: just rpm
03:26 AM gloops: whats the other way?
03:27 AM srk: I've tried drilled disc but was only able to fit like 100 notches in there
03:27 AM srk: which is nowhere near $12 600CPM encoder from china
03:28 AM srk: now playing with magnetic encoders from AMS
03:28 AM XXCoder: srk: if you had light sensor, you could print disk
03:28 AM XXCoder: no holes needed
03:28 AM srk: yeah, that's what I've replied on #diycnc :D
03:28 AM srk: grayscale sensor(s) + printed disc
03:28 AM srk: there are even papers about that
03:29 AM XXCoder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_code
03:30 AM srk: what I mean is continuous grayscale disc
03:30 AM XXCoder: I suppose I can predict how that works. it calculates on how dark spot is
03:30 AM srk: yup, with 3 sensors or so
03:36 AM gloops: ill save this info and investigate further, didnt think i was working today but i am now lol
03:36 AM XXCoder: lol ok
03:48 AM gloops: well have got 5 minutes
03:48 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Encoder-6mm-Shaft-600P-R-Incremental-Rotary-AB-phase-for-Length-Measurement/371320448933?
03:48 AM gloops: so that?
03:49 AM gloops: you would need to drive that from the shaft being read
03:52 AM XXCoder: if servo or stepper or spindle has both end you could just use coupler of some kinf
03:55 AM pink_vampire: i'm very cloce to having a C axis on my machine
03:58 AM XXCoder: ohh what C is you using?
03:58 AM XXCoder: bought or made?
03:59 AM pink_vampire: I want to do ridged tapping and cut rubber and stuff like that with smart drag knife
04:00 AM pink_vampire: but I can't find any cam software that know how to rotate the C axis along the path
04:00 AM XXCoder: good question, it gets diffult very fast past normal 3 axis
04:01 AM pink_vampire: any idea for cam program?
04:01 AM XXCoder: I wonder if f360 can do it.
04:01 AM pink_vampire: I wonder too.
04:01 AM pink_vampire: and I have HSMworks
04:02 AM gloops: a few do indexing of A, dont know about C
04:03 AM pink_vampire: like that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTcXGOUJPfI
04:03 AM XXCoder: certain rotatry axis usage is simple to use, you just hand write gcode to rotate and lock it and run other parts of gcode
04:03 AM XXCoder: thats most common actually
04:03 AM gloops: oh dragknife
04:03 AM XXCoder: many of machines at work its like that. only few can run and rotate while cutting
04:04 AM pink_vampire: yes
04:04 AM gloops: most scripts rely on the drag for changing direction
04:04 AM gloops: just have spindle free
04:04 AM pink_vampire: i know
04:04 AM pink_vampire: but it is much better to rotate the axis
04:05 AM gloops: would imagine so yeah
04:06 AM XXCoder: too bad yours dont have spindle position encoder and ability to set it to any orention
04:06 AM XXCoder: would make it much simpler lol
04:07 AM pink_vampire: i havce one
04:08 AM XXCoder: oh thought didnt heh sorry
04:08 AM pink_vampire: I have 2 spindles
04:10 AM XXCoder: nice
05:00 AM jthornton: morning
05:00 AM XXCoder: yo
05:50 AM Tom_L: 45�F and rain
05:51 AM jthornton: we are supposed to get some rain this afternoon
06:21 AM Deejay: utf8 fail
06:23 AM jthornton: not here
06:37 AM nubcake is now known as nubcake_
06:37 AM nubcake_ is now known as nubcake
07:55 AM Beachbumpete1: Morning :)
08:43 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
08:43 AM IchGucksLive: pink_vampire: why arent you going with a A
08:43 AM IchGucksLive: mutch better to control
08:47 AM Deejay: re
08:47 AM IchGucksLive: holzjunkie: homany woodchips today
08:48 AM IchGucksLive: Deejay: storm loosrairradar ;-)
08:50 AM holzjunkie: IchGucksLive: less then zero ;-P
08:50 AM IchGucksLive: not that good
08:50 AM gregcnc: negative chips?
08:50 AM IchGucksLive: BUT saves Bits
08:50 AM IchGucksLive: gregcnc: meaning clue time
08:55 AM IchGucksLive: hi srk
08:56 AM IchGucksLive: im off for wood chiping with axt i got a idee with our guests to get a BBQ fire this evening
08:56 AM IchGucksLive: thanks holzjunkie
11:30 AM Beachbumpete1: whatsgoinon in linuxCNC land today :)
11:40 AM Beachbumpete1: dealing with CNC machine resellers is kind of like dealing with used car dealers only not as fun ;)
11:46 AM JT-Shop: yuck
11:48 AM gregcnc: yeah they are bad. If you don't know enough about the machine it's worth a few hundred$$ to get an experienced tech to look at it.
12:03 PM Beachbumpete1: yeah we are planning to do that
12:03 PM Beachbumpete1: I found a decent HAAS VF3 in the northeast that looks promising
12:33 PM xunil96 is now known as xunil
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: hi all from a sibirian cold germany
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: -10deg Tonight
12:51 PM Tom_L: turning cold here again as well
12:53 PM Tom_L: Beachbumpete1 out machine shopping ehh?
12:53 PM IchGucksLive: hi xunil
12:56 PM IchGucksLive: im orderd outside starting BBQ
12:56 PM Tom_L: yum
12:59 PM gloops: bbq in -10?
01:00 PM Tom_L: would warm things up if you're standing by it
01:00 PM gloops: suppose yeah, beer would be cold as well
01:01 PM Tom_L: called the local tool grind shop asking for a cutter. the gal said just a min.. came back and said i'll grab an old tool and the guys'll have it ready for you in an hour...
01:01 PM Tom_L: damn..
01:02 PM Tom_L: that's good service
01:04 PM gloops: handy to have somewhere like that local
01:05 PM Tom_L: yeah, this is a big machining town
01:05 PM Tom_L: i wasn't in that big a hurry though..
01:05 PM JT-Shop: nice
01:05 PM Tom_L: just called to see if they had one
01:07 PM JT-Shop: what kind of cutter?
01:07 PM Tom_L: just a chamfer tool
01:07 PM Tom_L: carbide
01:08 PM Tom_L: i could have ground an old drill or something but i figure if they did it, it would be right and last a while
01:09 PM Tom_L: they'll cut just about anything you want
01:23 PM gloops: i need some V cutters, i ought to concentrate on ordering what i need instead of buying bargains that might come in handy some day
01:23 PM gloops: left it a bit late for chinese shipment now
01:27 PM Tom_L: 60 deg?
01:31 PM Beachbumpete1: Tom yup trying to
01:32 PM fragalot: gloops: grind your own out of worn out bits?
01:32 PM Tom_L: Beachbumpete1 you find one up NE it's probably been cutting steel it's whole life
01:33 PM gloops: 60 degree mainly yeah
01:33 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: thats what i do... its not that hard to make a D-bit from a brkein 1/8" carbide shaft
01:33 PM gloops: fragalot cant do that with tct
01:33 PM Tom_L: fragalot it's more fun getting stuff in the mail :)
01:33 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: yup :-)
01:34 PM Loetmichel: even freehand ;)
01:35 PM Tom_L: if i had a stone for carbide...
01:35 PM Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iaFb6WInuw
01:35 PM fragalot: gloops: of course you can
01:35 PM Loetmichel: diamond cutoff wheel for the dremel is sufficient.
01:35 PM Loetmichel: takes a bit of learning though.
01:36 PM Loetmichel: i think my 20th try worked :-)
01:36 PM fragalot: tool & cutter grinder makes it easy :P
01:36 PM gregcnc: SiC dust yumm
01:36 PM Tom_L: i've made halfround bits before
01:36 PM gloops: theyre only ten bob each, ive got a couple to get by with
01:37 PM gloops: tct https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4pcs-1-4-Inch-Shank-Router-Bit-CNC-Engraving-V-Groove-Cutter/272821528569?
01:37 PM Loetmichel: gregcnc: nope. but carbide/cobalt dust... not really better ;)
01:37 PM gloops: the solid carbide ones are as cheap
01:37 PM Tom_L: i got a pack of those off ebay when i was making my pendant
01:37 PM Loetmichel: gloops: doesent work if you need a special bit NOW... also the shafts are "waste" anyway, so why not "second use" them?
01:38 PM gregcnc: oops WC
01:38 PM Loetmichel: solid carbide doesent exist
01:38 PM phipli: JT-Shop, jthornton?
01:38 PM Beachbumpete1: yeah man I know.. it is a very clean looking machine tho, if it WAS cutting steel its whole life generally you can tell looking at it.
01:38 PM Loetmichel: all carbide bits are sintered with cobalt as "glue"
01:39 PM gregcnc: solid carbide as opposed to carbide insert in termos of machining tools
01:39 PM gregcnc: or brazed carbide
01:39 PM Tom_L: takes some of the 'brittle' out of it
01:39 PM Loetmichel: ah, i see
01:39 PM Tom_L: carbide opposed to tungsten
01:39 PM Loetmichel: yeah, carbide inserts are usually way to coarse for metalworking
01:39 PM gregcnc: ???
01:40 PM Tom_L: we used them all the time
01:40 PM Tom_L: dude's gone off the deep end here
01:40 PM Loetmichel: tool bits with carbide inserts in steel shafts are usually made for wood. not for metalwork
01:40 PM Loetmichel: they dont have the precision to do metalwork
01:40 PM gregcnc: loet go to sleep
01:40 PM Loetmichel: thats what i meant
01:40 PM Tom_L: i know what you're talking about
01:40 PM Loetmichel: gregcnc: hmm?
01:40 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: you're wrong there too.
01:40 PM Tom_L: but it didn't seem to come out right
01:40 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: USUALLY
01:41 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-175X32mm-2-Flutes-Ball-Nose-End-Mill-Cutter-CNC-Router-Bit-Pack-Of-10/222760235420?
01:41 PM gloops: a lot use these type, solid carbide
01:41 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: then why are brazed toolbits on lathes a thing if they don't work for steel?
01:41 PM gregcnc: most modern machingin is done with insert tooling
01:41 PM Tom_L: gloops, damn those would chatter on metal
01:42 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: I believe you meant to say, "cheap woodworking tct bits are not suitable for metal"
01:42 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: are those called tool bits, too? i was under the impression a tool bit is only if its roatating itself
01:42 PM Tom_L: it's a catchall term
01:42 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: those are called toolbits, i've never heard of a spinning tool referred to as a toolbit
01:42 PM Tom_L: thus introducing confusion
01:42 PM fragalot: personally, anyway
01:42 PM Loetmichel: yes, thats the only kind where i have seen tungsten carbide inserts in rotating tools so far
01:42 PM gloops: the finer cutters are at high speed and only light passes in wood
01:43 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: I have a box of carbide tipped drill bits for metal
01:43 PM Loetmichel: is for cheap woodworking tools
01:43 PM gloops: at these prices you may as well throw them away when the jobs done
01:43 PM fragalot: they work great as disposables to drill out broken drills or taps
01:43 PM fragalot: singular use for obvious reasons though
01:43 PM Loetmichel: Tom_L: hence my confusion.
01:44 PM Loetmichel: of course fragalot is right. i meant the cheap woodworking router bits
01:44 PM fragalot: (note when I say cheap, I mean "cheap compared to scrapping the part entirely")
01:44 PM gloops: they cut ally
01:44 PM Loetmichel: gloops: they do
01:44 PM Loetmichel: they even cut steel
01:45 PM gloops: ive not tried on steel lol
01:45 PM Loetmichel: but neither metal really good or with a great surface finish
01:45 PM Loetmichel: wrong angles
01:45 PM Loetmichel: and usually not even dynamically balanced
01:46 PM Loetmichel: (i had some that vibrated the coffee off the CNC mill when the spindle startet up to 24krm ;)
01:46 PM gloops: the tipped chinese lathe tools are ok if youre very light handed, the carbide is crap, doesnt sharpen well and the tip often cracks off from the hat of grinding
01:46 PM gloops: heat
01:46 PM Loetmichel: yeah, i have some of those brazed lathe tools
01:46 PM Loetmichel: chinese crap
01:46 PM gloops: the brazing must be 80% lead
01:47 PM Tom_L: siver solder
01:47 PM Loetmichel: you couldnt even touch an aluminium rod in the lathe without the "carbide" cutting edge breaking off
01:47 PM Tom_L: silver*
01:47 PM Loetmichel: got some 8mm square HSS blanks to make my own tools bits from in the end :-)
01:48 PM fragalot: yeah, HSS blanks are great to have around
01:48 PM Tom_L: make good spacers too
01:48 PM gloops: i got some chino boring tools, after about an hour setting up the tip falls off...very boring
01:48 PM fragalot: I wouldn't mind finding some good square carbide blanks though
01:49 PM gloops: i got a tin full of hss letter punch bits, its good quality hss i made a boring bar to take one of those and just grind them up to suit what im doing, got enough to last a lifetime
01:50 PM Tom_L: wish i had letter.. i've got number
01:50 PM fragalot: I have both in varying qualities
01:50 PM gloops: its a shame really it was a good quality set lol, i had no use for letter punching
01:50 PM fragalot: even the good ones aren't /great/
01:50 PM Tom_L: wonder if i can make a hex broach from a hardened bolt head
01:51 PM fragalot: Tom_L: if you can harden it properly, sure
01:51 PM Tom_L: should be hard enough already
01:51 PM Tom_L: for alum
01:51 PM fragalot: maybe for a few uses
01:51 PM Tom_L: grind some relief on it
01:51 PM Tom_L: 2
01:51 PM Tom_L: :)
01:51 PM gregcnc: if you're going to set up to grind the angles/reliefs properly you may as well use tool steel
01:52 PM Tom_L: gonna make one of these for the vise: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/SpeedHandle.jpg
01:52 PM gloops: could maybe make some incremental sized ones, take a few passes
01:52 PM Tom_L: i'll mill most of it out
01:52 PM Tom_L: i could cheat and undercut the corners with the mill cutter
01:53 PM gregcnc: people just mill those with relief in the corners
01:53 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: i once took a dead brazed carbide lathe tool (chinese) and brazed in a new plate made from a "wendeschneidplatte" like this one: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:VHM-WSP-PDS-2.jpg
01:53 PM Loetmichel: wors MUUUUUCH better than the chinese crap
01:53 PM Loetmichel: works
01:54 PM fragalot: don't see why it wouldn't
01:54 PM Tom_L: me either
01:54 PM Tom_L: just one use instead of 3 though
01:54 PM Loetmichel: two of the edges were already done for
01:54 PM fragalot: I braze on cracked inserts that I regrind afterwards all the time
01:55 PM Loetmichel: and i ground it to fit my angles after brazing anyways
01:55 PM Loetmichel: i just used the tip as a "flat pice of TC"
01:56 PM Loetmichel: it was a "TNMN" style insert
01:57 PM Loetmichel: what i wanted to say is that the cheap "brazed TC tip" lathe toolsets from china are not worth a buy
01:57 PM fragalot: absolutely.
01:57 PM fragalot: even if the carbide stays on, it's such a low grade that it chips just from the stresses of putting it in your toolholder :P
01:57 PM Loetmichel: i have 3 sets from different (equally cheap) sources, all three have VERY brittle and heat sensitive carbide inserts that are not working at all
01:58 PM Loetmichel: exactly
01:58 PM Loetmichel: :-)
01:58 PM Loetmichel: and thats saying something considering my lathe is a C0 ;)
02:00 PM Loetmichel: i made some "boring bars" off of steel rods and broken 1/8" TC mill bit shafts though, that works surprisingly well ;)(
02:00 PM Loetmichel: -(
02:03 PM fragalot: love how the chinese ebay sellers always start their messages with "dear friend"
02:04 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: the hope dies last (as we say in german ;)
02:04 PM fragalot: :-)
02:05 PM Loetmichel: (the hope that you are still his friend) ;)
02:14 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: it's happened. one of the uber self driving cars ran someone over, the test pilot could not intervene in time.
02:14 PM gloops: haha i like those messages - you always get the feeling there is a double dialogue happening though, like he/she is thinking - you irritating twat stop messaging me for your junk
02:14 PM Tom_L: so who's liable?
02:15 PM Tom_L: the test pilot or the headless car?
02:15 PM fragalot: Tom_L: we'll find out in about 2 years when a judge decides that won't we?
02:15 PM Tom_L: hah
02:16 PM Tom_L: didn't take insurance co's long to put disclaimers about drones in their policies
02:17 PM fragalot: in belgium it's easy for now
02:17 PM fragalot: the driver sitting behind the wheel is responsible.
02:18 PM Tom_L: there's no wheel
02:18 PM fragalot: those are not allowed on the public road yet
02:18 PM gloops: no steering wheel? lol
02:19 PM fragalot: which is why the law is simple.
02:19 PM Tom_L: one of GM's prototypes has no wheel
02:19 PM fragalot: there has to be a person with final say in the vehicle at all times.
02:19 PM Tom_L: err concept car
02:19 PM gloops: so the machine shuts down, youre sat in the front - cant do anything
02:19 PM fragalot: gloops: yup.
02:20 PM fragalot: I'm not a fan of that as long as the roads are mixed traffic
02:20 PM Tom_L: they're just bound to take all the fun out of driving.... nobody left to flip off once they're all drones
02:20 PM fragalot: eg. human & AI drivers mixed
02:21 PM Tom_L: instead of 'ok google' it will be 'ok car'
02:21 PM fragalot: no car, no! NO!
02:21 PM Loetmichel: Tom_L: flip off? if anyone has time to notice the finger you are driving to slow ;)
02:21 PM fragalot: 'there are 5 restaurants near you'
02:22 PM Tom_L: excellent point
02:22 PM gloops: in an all AI scenario there could be some kind of warning emmission triggered if anything fails, although i suppose that wouldnt be failsafe
02:22 PM fragalot: gloops: it can be made failsafe.
02:22 PM gloops: assuming the cars behind automatically keep a safe distance
02:22 PM fragalot: as long as the whole loop acn be closed
02:22 PM fragalot: and as long as there is mixed traffic, that can not happen
02:23 PM Tom_L: there's bound to be a transition period
02:23 PM fragalot: yup
02:23 PM gloops: they are obviously preparing for it here with the amount of electronic hardware posts going up all along the roads, they will be used to inform AI vehicles
02:23 PM Loetmichel: gloops: car computers have next to none reaction time. so they could make "tailgating" seem like a correct distance and STILL be safter than a human pilot
02:23 PM Tom_L: talk about being on the bleeding edge...
02:24 PM jthornton: that would save a bunch of fuel by drafting
02:25 PM gloops: apparently we'll be going everywhere at 30mph - but get there faster
02:25 PM Tom_L: hardly see that hapening
02:25 PM gregcnc: do they do burn outs and roll coal?
02:26 PM fragalot: gloops: if I could do 30mph everywhere, including around antwerp & brussel.. obviously
02:26 PM gloops: if it keeps traffic flowing instead of the stop start routine atm, it might be faster on urban roads
02:26 PM fragalot: the average speed on motorways there is like.. 2.
02:26 PM Tom_L: they'll surely have 'muscle bots'
02:26 PM fragalot: gregcnc: "roll coal" ?
02:26 PM Tom_L: never heard that one
02:27 PM gregcnc: https://youtu.be/_gcb84qn3mU
02:27 PM Tom_L: yeah, diesel
02:28 PM gloops: rush hour motorway here is pretty static in places, out of town you can be doing 70 then suddenly it all comes to a full stop, probably while some old fart gets out to save a hedgehog or something
02:30 PM Tom_L: why are prius a target for that? :D
02:30 PM gregcnc: dunno something about whiny green types
02:31 PM fragalot: I'm thinking of getting a hybrid in a few months, actually
02:31 PM fragalot: probably an auris
02:31 PM fragalot: blame the .gov for taxing diesels a lot more, and making it so a 1 liter gasoline is becoming the new standard...
02:31 PM fragalot: yay for hybrids giving you free untaxed BHP. :P
02:32 PM gregcnc: https://www.engadget.com/2018/02/28/german-court-says-cities-can-ban-diesel-cars/
02:33 PM fragalot: it's already happened here in a few cities
02:33 PM fragalot: note though that it's "old diesels", not modern ones
02:33 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: rolling coal is overinjecting diesel into the cylinders to cause smoke
02:33 PM gregcnc: i guess toyota is giving up on diesels in DE or EU entirely?
02:34 PM Loetmichel: in the old days you just had to pull the "diesel choke" today they chip the ECU that it allows that
02:34 PM Loetmichel: idiotic
02:34 PM fragalot: gregcnc: I believe so, yes
02:36 PM gloops: not known a choke on a diesel, they did used to have core plug heaters, you had to wait for the light to go out before turning it over
02:38 PM fragalot: yeah i've never heard of a diesel with a choke either
02:38 PM fragalot: not sure how it would even work
02:38 PM gloops: the manual choke on the old petrols was often a fine art to get right
02:39 PM fragalot: diesels are always injection based, so closing off the intake won't pull in more fuel..
02:41 PM gloops: a lot of stuff thats forgotten now with car started, they dont get 'flooded' anymore lol
02:41 PM gloops: car starting
02:42 PM fragalot: that was especially fun with the trabant
02:42 PM fragalot: whriririririr*clunk*
02:42 PM gloops: some of the bigger vauxhalls, if it didnt start first turn - that was it for half an hour, flooded
02:43 PM gloops: unless you wanted to get the plugs out
02:45 PM Loetmichel: gloops: some direct injection diesels had a "more volume" lever on the injector pump that worked like a choke on a petrol engine would
02:46 PM Loetmichel: back when diesels did not need any electronics at all
02:47 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: thats why i put that "choke" in ""
02:47 PM gloops: well, a lot of pumps needed priming before starting, it was quite a lengthy ritual to get the engine running
02:47 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: ah, right :)
02:47 PM fragalot: gloops: hehe yeah, the old beater van I used to drive always needed priming before it would go anywhere
02:47 PM fragalot: "right, it's -15°C out.. who wants to go prime the van"
02:47 PM enleth: stillba breeze compared to the hot bulb engine
02:48 PM fragalot: stand there pushing that daft plunger for 5 minutes
02:48 PM fragalot: try starting
02:48 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: leak in the fuel system so it emptied the filters over time by sucking air in?
02:48 PM fragalot: push plunger again
02:48 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: likely
02:48 PM Loetmichel: enleth: ever started a lanz bulldogg?
02:49 PM Loetmichel: -g
02:49 PM Loetmichel: fun times ;)
02:51 PM gloops: my brother had an old CCM bike, if you tried kickstarting it the starting lever would kick back and break your ankle, it had a decompressor lever - lower the compression to start, then move it back when it started getting warm
02:51 PM fragalot: friend of mine went everywhere with an old bike that had no brakes on it
02:51 PM fragalot: wanted to stop? kill the engine
02:52 PM fragalot: want to slow down? pull the decompression lever
02:52 PM fragalot: uphill? give it some ingition lead
02:52 PM fragalot: fulltime job driving that thing, lol
02:52 PM enleth: Loetmichel: an ancient soviet tractor, once
02:52 PM gloops: and many of the big plant diesels had a 'donkey engine' a smaller engine that was started by normal methods, then used to crank the main drive engine
02:52 PM fragalot: want to start it? decompression & start pushing.. hope you can hop on in time.
02:53 PM cradek: heh 'pony'
02:54 PM cradek: sometimes a gasoline engine that circulates the same coolant so both warm up
02:54 PM Loetmichel: enleth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXEEbZS5zhM
02:54 PM enleth: gloops: Essential Craftsman has a 1940s Caterpillar tractot with a pony engine
02:54 PM Loetmichel: cradek: pony start engines are funny
02:54 PM Loetmichel: but a bit big for vehicle use
02:54 PM enleth: *tractor
02:54 PM gloops: cradek often on longer vehicles, one engine in front, one behind, like the big terex earth scrapers
02:55 PM Loetmichel: (some bulldozers have them though)
02:55 PM gloops: you have 2 accelerator pedals, one pulling one pushing, get it wrong and you get a nice bouncy jacknife
02:57 PM gloops: enleth a lot of the old big diesel motors had them
03:00 PM renz: so what you lead with the front engine and kind of offload it with the second?
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: I'd like 4 brake pedals, 1 for stop, 1 for stop faster, 1 for fun and 1 for see what it does
03:02 PM gloops: yes renz, i drove them a few times, under supervision lol, the pedals are close together, you mainly pull, i cant remember honestly when the rear engine was mainly required, obviously when more power was required - whilst scraping etc, but there was some kind of balance required when cornering
03:02 PM gloops: you could also disable the rear pedal - so it didnt do anything
03:03 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: most older tractors should give you 2. don't know of any with 4 though
03:03 PM renz: capthindsight: normal brakes, ABS hammers active, hand brake, turn off car in gear
03:03 PM renz: respectively
03:03 PM gloops: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4079/4758121405_96b19ac647_o.jpg < like that, those were very common on ever coal spoil heap here
03:03 PM fragalot: renz: cars actually brake faster if the ABS hammer /isn't/ active.
03:03 PM fragalot: as that indicates you've already gone past the optimal friction point with the road
03:04 PM fragalot: it's more of a "stop slower but more reliably" :P
03:08 PM miss0r: Sweet wonderous bliss! Now the compressor is in the shed next door, in a quite well sound insulated box.
03:08 PM gregcnc: oh i would love to do that
03:09 PM fragalot: miss0r: lovely isn't it
03:09 PM gloops: the sophisticated abs allows you to steer during an emergency stop - like anyone has those kind of reflexes, if you have to slam the brakes on that hard you are frozen bracing yourself for impact - not steering
03:10 PM miss0r: from the outside in: 20mm plywood, 3x 13mm drywall sheet, 250mm rockwhool that is sprayed with clear laquer to keep particles from shaking loose & perforated stainless steel sheet
03:10 PM fragalot: i've put mine in a box with 15cm dense soundproof foam, with a 2mm heavy backing & 15mm plywood, with a labyrinth air exchange on top of it
03:10 PM gregcnc: if you train yourself for it rather than lockup in panic
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: someone should make a sound absorber that also stores sound, you could have is save all the noise from the compressor and then release it once a week at a soccer game or similar
03:10 PM miss0r: lol
03:10 PM fragalot: hahaha
03:10 PM gloops: yeh, the kingspan rigid insulation is easier to work with
03:10 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: did you see the uber story yet?
03:11 PM gregcnc: I want to know what all the daylight is saved, because I want that time back
03:11 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: your question about "who would be liable" is about to be answered.. eventually.
03:11 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight: They have already made that: although here we are talking mentally stored noise; vuvuzela
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: yeah, maybe the corts will sort this out sooner than I thought
03:12 PM miss0r: fragalot: It seems i'll have time to sit down and do some calculation on your drawings thursday
03:12 PM gloops: there is actually a theory among some scientists that solid objects record in some way all the events that happen around them, so a million year old rock, if you could decode the information, contains the entire history of 1 million years
03:12 PM fragalot: miss0r: sweet :-)
03:12 PM fragalot: miss0r: i'm also wondering if it would work well in CK45 rather than alu.. just to have more mass?
03:13 PM miss0r: fragalot: Well - with steel you always run the risk af having it resonate.. Same goes for alu though :]
03:14 PM miss0r: But without proper calculations on the subject its hard to say
03:14 PM fragalot: getting rid of resonance is just a matter of adding more mass :P
03:14 PM miss0r: to a degree, sure :]
03:14 PM Tom_L: awesome service i must say... called around 12:30 pick up custom cut tool at 3
03:14 PM fragalot: Tom_L: that is pretty quick o.O
03:15 PM fragalot: miss0r: also, the parts starting with "EG_" in the name.. thickness on those is non-critical, just so you know.
03:15 PM miss0r: fragalot: Well, i can make you a set of calculations if it were ck45. But keep in mind it will be more expensive (machining time, weight for shipping.. Not sure what the price for ck45 glatbar is though
03:15 PM miss0r: alright
03:15 PM Tom_L: walked in the back door to probably 2 dozen cnc grinders..
03:15 PM renz: more mass doesnt get rid of resonance it changes it
03:16 PM renz: damping can kill it
03:16 PM fragalot: miss0r: yeah it will be interesting to see the total before I can decide anything.
03:16 PM miss0r: Sure. I'll see if I can get my hands on a price before too long
03:16 PM renz: can also tighten the things to raise resonance freq and decrease amplitude
03:16 PM fragalot: miss0r: take your time :-)
03:16 PM Tom_L: sry, must toot their horn a bit: https://superiortoolservice.com/
03:16 PM fragalot: just have it on my desk by tomorrow
03:17 PM fragalot: Tom_L: well with a name like that!
03:17 PM Tom_L: 10-12 days my ass
03:17 PM renz: fragalot: last car i only got into the ABS once doing stop sign to stop sign across LA
03:17 PM Tom_L: :)
03:17 PM renz: shit was scary i thought my front end fell apart
03:17 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MSZ-TMP-200-Surface-Cylindrical-Tool-Drill-Grinder/222885488494?
03:17 PM gloops: something like that ideal for the small workshop
03:17 PM fragalot: renz: mine's gone off twice since i've owned it; once out of it's own accord and I am super pleased that modern cars do that!
03:17 PM renz: i do canyons a lot, get the tires to squeek, never gotten into the abs
03:18 PM miss0r: fragalot: I'm pondering if I can find a dealer that even sells C(k)45 in something other than ground axles
03:18 PM fragalot: gloops: i've got a deckel clone like that and it is absolutely fantastic.
03:18 PM renz: i think maybe i hit a puddle or something
03:19 PM fragalot: miss0r: should be availabe as sheet.. but probably easiest to order pre-cut?
03:19 PM miss0r: Good question, I will look around ;)
03:19 PM fragalot: i've got a quote floating around from someone that I know takes 5 weeks to process simple questions
03:21 PM fragalot: great guy though, just difficult to get quotes or even estimates frlom xD
03:21 PM fragalot: -l
03:22 PM gloops: got plenty of work on fragalot, he doesnt need it
03:22 PM fragalot: Tom_L: they don't mess around with the "ready to ship" endmill prices
03:23 PM fragalot: gloops: Yup, :)
03:25 PM fragalot: miss0r: for lasercut stuff at work we often order at 247tailorsteel.com - gives you quotes within minutes & typically delivers in like 5 days
03:26 PM miss0r: fragalot: Question: IF they can deliever the material you want; you could consider ordering the pieces there, and have them delievered here for machining, That would safe a ton of time on my end, no doubt
03:26 PM fragalot: I can't order from them as they don't take private orders
03:26 PM miss0r: *sigh* :]
03:26 PM fragalot: I know right xD
03:27 PM fragalot: wouldn't be bothering you if I could order it myself.. just cursing to get the things flat.
03:28 PM miss0r: Well. I just browsed their site. It seems they do not stock anything thicker than 10mm
03:28 PM miss0r: I wonder if they cut thicker
03:28 PM fragalot: up to 25 iirc
03:29 PM miss0r: They do. Alu only up to 10mm
03:29 PM fragalot: oh right I was looking at steels
03:29 PM fragalot: expensive to make it do a round trip though >.<
03:30 PM miss0r: Yeah. :] They have embarked on a pretty expensive hobby here
03:30 PM fragalot: that ship has sailed long ago
03:30 PM fragalot: xD
03:31 PM fragalot: anyway - similar services exist everywhere, and are often so cheap it's not worth doing it yourself anymore
03:32 PM miss0r: Yeah. I'm looking at the website of a client of mine. They can water cut that thickness
03:32 PM miss0r: they do 1-120mm thickness on their water jet :D
03:33 PM fragalot: hard to imagine isn't it
03:33 PM miss0r: yeah, and they promise 0.1mm tolerance at 120mm thickness :o
03:33 PM fragalot: one of the places I used to work at had a ton of those "ironworker" machines that could guillotine up to 140mm like it was cheese
03:34 PM fragalot: which is fine, as long as you don't want a clean edge xD
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: OK WTF, hours later I see video of the bent up bike the woman was on that was hiy by the UBER, can't the news get anything correct?
03:34 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: what did you expect?
03:34 PM fragalot: someone tweets the wrong thing, news propagates via copypasting
03:34 PM fragalot: miss0r: awesome. don't even need to profile most things then xD
03:35 PM miss0r: Hehe. Well, that depends on your tolerances :] I wouldn't shit something that was potentially off my 0.1mm
03:35 PM fragalot: miss0r: I could mark the "important" surfaces more clearly too as i'd imagine that would save a ton of machine time.
03:35 PM fragalot: miss0r: tolerances are important for mating surfaces
03:35 PM gloops: should have gone to UK stockholder, cut while u wait ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kN5iqVO67g
03:35 PM fragalot: couldn't care less if the EG insert stuff was .1mm too large xD
03:35 PM miss0r: fragalot: You've come to the wrong place :D
03:36 PM XXCoder: fragalot: I remember one time there was kid who shot up school. someone looked up facebook profile and grabbed picture, shared it everyone and everyone blamed shooter's brother
03:36 PM fragalot: miss0r: I know. that's why I keep poking /you/, lol
03:36 PM XXCoder: that poor boy was heavily harassed by people.
03:36 PM XXCoder: when it was really his brother who did it
03:36 PM fragalot: XXCoder: have you seen "black mirror" ?
03:36 PM XXCoder: no
03:36 PM fragalot: You should.
03:37 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: did you hear about the mountain that collapsed in Miami the other day, it was crossing the road and hit some cars :)
03:37 PM CaptHindsight: oh yeah it was a bridge
03:37 PM CaptHindsight: and the bridge was not moving
03:37 PM fragalot: and it was in florida?
03:37 PM XXCoder: fragalot: looks interesting but I rarely watch tv shows nowdays
03:37 PM CaptHindsight: somewhere in Jesusland
03:37 PM fragalot: XXCoder: it's basically a protest against current media trends
03:38 PM miss0r: California ? right
03:38 PM fragalot: and it's very apt.
03:38 PM miss0r: AvE have done a few videos on the subjest actualy
03:38 PM fragalot: he has, and they're on point
03:38 PM miss0r: yeah
03:39 PM XXCoder: on unrelated news, apparently Hawking published a paper 2 weeks before he died.
03:39 PM CaptHindsight: looks like the cars jumped up and hit the bridge making it collapse
03:39 PM fragalot: he's a big doofus, but does show that beneath the bumblefuckery he does have some experience in heavy industry
03:39 PM XXCoder: it is hypotsis and how to test for ponental accessing parallel universes.
03:40 PM XXCoder: or in least discover possibility of
03:40 PM CaptHindsight: what is the universes are not truly parallel?
03:40 PM CaptHindsight: what if they actually intersect at some pint?
03:40 PM miss0r: This is beyond me. I'll hit the hay. See you around
03:40 PM XXCoder: lol parallel different meaning when talking about universes
03:40 PM fragalot: ttyl miss0r :)
03:40 PM CaptHindsight: or bend in and out of each other multiple times
03:40 PM fragalot: good luck tomorrow.
03:41 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: what if, they're actually all the same?
03:41 PM CaptHindsight: or ring universes that interlock like a chain?
03:41 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: thats from Long Earth book series
03:42 PM CaptHindsight: or woven like twine?
03:42 PM fragalot: or on the back of 4 elephants being carried by a giant turtle
03:42 PM fragalot: or was it a tortoise?
03:42 PM CaptHindsight: ah hah, but yeah whois holding up the turtle?
03:42 PM XXCoder: flying sea turtle
03:42 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: more turtles
03:42 PM XXCoder: just like discworld predicted
03:42 PM CaptHindsight: last i heard it was a stack of turtles
03:42 PM CaptHindsight: in a ring that is self supported
03:42 PM gloops: turtles all the way down
03:43 PM fragalot: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/River_terrapin.jpg
03:43 PM fragalot: (depiction not scientifically accurate)
03:43 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQJtV_YLuNE here's is my proof
03:44 PM gloops: infinite regress, which again demonstrates my point about the uselessness of science
03:44 PM XXCoder: frag, if that "turtles all way down" scaled up like that, evenually there will be turtle that has nose bigger than universe. then bunch layers down turtle nose would be bigger than that whole turtle
03:45 PM XXCoder: lol
03:45 PM XXCoder: you say that, using computer and internet
03:45 PM fragalot: XXCoder: there is no gravity in space though, so why would their nose be so big?
03:45 PM fragalot: if anything, the center turtle would need to be the strongest
03:45 PM fragalot: but there is no center
03:46 PM fragalot: so your point is moot
03:46 PM XXCoder: lol
03:46 PM fragalot: checkmate, atheist.
03:46 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: space has gravity, it's just saved up in rocks and stuff
03:47 PM XXCoder: lol
03:47 PM gloops: rocks are space
03:47 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: along with compressor noises? :D
03:47 PM CaptHindsight: rocks can't hold sound
03:47 PM XXCoder: would be fanastic if we found a way to really store and emit gravity
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: that why they are quiet until something else hits them
03:48 PM gloops: why cant rocks hold sound?
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: it would be too noisy
03:48 PM gregcnc: ever been to a canyon?
03:48 PM fragalot: XXCoder: you CAN store and emit gravity, either use mass or add speed
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: a canyon is non-rock
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: the empty space between them
03:49 PM gregcnc: ah of course the anti-rock
03:50 PM XXCoder: fragalot: teachinically speaking. but unfortunately seems they found out its not force like others, it comes from bending of spacetime. so in order to have gravory or anti-gravity we have to bend spacetime. only known way so far is mass.
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: and space is not rocks, it's the space between them, thats why they call it space
03:50 PM fragalot: XXCoder: and speed.
03:50 PM gloops: there are a minimum of 15 dimensions
03:50 PM gloops: 11 of which we cannot comprehend
03:50 PM XXCoder: speed dont increase mass. it just increases resistance to acceration
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: nah, you just bend space again
03:51 PM gregcnc: what if there are eleventy billion we can't comprehend?
03:51 PM fragalot: XXCoder: it does slow time though
03:51 PM XXCoder: it does.
03:51 PM gloops: Capthindsight you are thinking of space as a vacuum
03:51 PM fragalot: XXCoder: therefore it does bend spacetime similarly to mass, or am I understanding this wrong?
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: no, space is space
03:52 PM gloops: define spsce
03:52 PM gloops: space
03:52 PM CaptHindsight: space
03:52 PM gloops: thats circular
03:52 PM fragalot: space is an empty spot where you can put a new machine down in
03:52 PM CaptHindsight: what you call the stuff in between things
03:52 PM gregcnc: I'd like to buy some space to put in my garage
03:52 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: well the part between the bikes & the table saw, is "this is where the mill will go"
03:53 PM gloops: stuff implies - not empty
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: I'm not trying to imply anything
03:53 PM gloops: which space isnt anyway, the electromagnetic field is unaffected by not being something
03:53 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: do you know if anything ever happened to that pocketNC thing?
03:54 PM gregcnc: yeah those actually shipped
03:54 PM XXCoder: fragalot: new design out now
03:54 PM fragalot: really?
03:54 PM gregcnc: they are staring to appear on social media
03:54 PM fragalot: do they...work?
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: space is what one puts at the end of a relationship, when one is too chicken to just say "outtah here"
03:55 PM SpeedEvil: CaptHindsight: and doesn't have the water table to put a secure basement.
03:55 PM gregcnc: https://www.instagram.com/ekramer3/
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: how come UPS only shows up whern you have gloves on and can't answer the door?
03:56 PM gregcnc: this guy is do some work. the cutting feeds and depths really show that machine is sutrdy as cheese
03:56 PM gloops: what actually happened was that 2 branes collided, massive structures of pure information
03:56 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: UPS staff is teklepathic with mission to annoy people as much as possible.
03:56 PM gloops: which gave rise to 'spacetime'
03:57 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: worn spindle bearings?
03:57 PM gregcnc: he just got it
03:57 PM CaptHindsight: "I think I need some spacetime"
03:58 PM gregcnc: i think i've used up about half my allotted space time
03:58 PM CaptHindsight: oh it's that pocket NC thingy
03:59 PM fragalot: why does it sound like it's doing HSM in steel when it's doing a finish pass in bamboo
03:59 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bf_LBpQH_2y/?taken-by=ekramer3
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: smooth as a bumpy road
04:00 PM fragalot: that's just the lighting, obviously
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: Moved on without the inlay after stock lift broke 3 end mills.
04:01 PM fragalot: lol
04:01 PM XXCoder: lol.
04:01 PM XXCoder: I had parts that looked like it has REALLY bad blending issues but smooth as silk
04:02 PM XXCoder: LOL "But I used double sided Scotch tape for workholding back in those days. (Seriously? 🙄) "
04:03 PM CaptHindsight: back to my time pod, the space between work is gone
04:05 PM gloops: hola
04:05 PM gloops: adios
04:06 PM Loetmichel: XXCoder: scotch tape? that with the 1mm foam core?
04:06 PM Loetmichel: thats no good
04:07 PM fragalot: scotch is just a brand name, could be anything
04:07 PM XXCoder: btw
04:07 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4pliuHi_Uk v2 pocketnc
04:07 PM XXCoder: no idea if its better
04:07 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: over here "scotch tape" is the name for the mirror tape
04:08 PM fragalot: XXCoder: seems to show it has position control of the spindle?
04:08 PM Loetmichel: that has the soft foam core to make it easier to get miror and mounting surfaces "coplanar"
04:08 PM Loetmichel: so it sticks well
04:08 PM Loetmichel: for milling thats a no-go because the part can move slightly in the foam
04:09 PM Loetmichel: been there, learned that lesson
04:09 PM fragalot: lol
04:09 PM XXCoder: well time to go to work. laters
04:09 PM fragalot: i've tried anything from glue to double sided tape.. each works for a certain application
04:09 PM Loetmichel: i use cheap carpet tape now, the thing that has a 0.1mm thick paper core
04:09 PM fragalot: yeah
04:09 PM gloops: have a nice day XXCoder
04:09 PM XXCoder: thanks
04:09 PM XXCoder: Loetmichel: isnt carpet tape also very strong
04:09 PM fragalot: superglue on painters tape if the tape doesn't work that well
04:10 PM fragalot: XXCoder: it is
04:10 PM XXCoder: ya. well laters
04:10 PM fragalot: i've also used hot snot a few times
04:10 PM fragalot: works great for PLA :P
04:10 PM Loetmichel: XXCoder: depends which one you get
04:11 PM Loetmichel: i have carpet tape from 5N pull force for 50mm wide to 50N
04:11 PM Loetmichel: the former is easy to pull off, the latter nearly impossible without heat
04:13 PM fragalot: ahahha
04:13 PM fragalot: "each pocketNC includes a one year trial of fusion360"
04:13 PM fragalot: fusion360 is free for the first year, regardless of your machine
04:23 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: psst
04:23 PM Loetmichel: dont tell them!
04:23 PM Loetmichel: M;)
04:23 PM Loetmichel: :-)
04:32 PM JT-Shop: I use G92 to set the torch tip position but I'm having problems now with multiple cuts with and error about the probe move is beyond the axis limit
04:33 PM JT-Shop: I wonder if a G10 would be better?
04:56 PM Deejay: gn8
05:00 PM jackc_: does anybody have a working link to the gcode.ulp eagle script? the link on the site i foubnd looks like it points at jeplers machine but is broken
05:01 PM jackc_: the broken link is http://git.unpy.net/view/eagle.git
05:04 PM jackc_: ah! i was able to find it in one of my backups, thanks anyhow
05:51 PM JT-Shop: nice my webhost is out of space!!
05:51 PM Tom_L: mine isn't
05:51 PM Tom_L: redirect some of it :)
05:51 PM JT-Shop: go to mesaus.com and see if you get the error
05:52 PM Tom_L: 1521503465): failed to open stream: No space left on device in /hermes/bosnacweb01/bosnacweb01at/b2281/whl.johnt128/mesaus/system/library/cache/file.php on line 49Warning: flock() expects parameter 1 to be resource, boolean given in /hermes/bosn
05:52 PM JT-Shop: yep
05:52 PM Tom_L: part of it loads
05:52 PM Roguish: Hey JT, got anything that will drive a 5-phase stepper motor?
05:52 PM Tom_L: shrink the pics
05:53 PM JT-Shop: no
05:53 PM Tom_L: gotta run for a sec bbiab
05:53 PM JT-Shop: ok
05:54 PM JT-Shop: what's up Roguish
05:55 PM Roguish: not much. pretty much done on the colonoscope project.
05:55 PM Roguish: need a 4th axis, rotary table.
05:55 PM JT-Shop: cool, I delivered an inline cleaner last week can't wait for the customer to sign off on it
05:56 PM Roguish: i have a 5-phase stepper with a small harmonic drive gearhead. just need a motor drive to try it out.
05:56 PM Roguish: in-line cleaning what?
05:56 PM JT-Shop: nails
05:57 PM Roguish: went to Hong Kong a few weeks ago.
05:57 PM Roguish: on the semi-robotic colonoscope project.
05:58 PM Roguish: couple days. only saw the airport, hotel, and and office building for 4 days.
05:58 PM Roguish: how are the chickens doing?
05:59 PM JT-Shop: V Carved this the other day https://imagebin.ca/v/3vSfyLxcQwSs
05:59 PM Roguish: that's good.
05:59 PM Roguish: concrete?
05:59 PM JT-Shop: they are doing great, I'm almost over the urge to get more lol
05:59 PM JT-Shop: pine
05:59 PM Roguish: ok.
06:00 PM JT-Shop: I was practicing for a harley logo for my buddy's coffin trailer
06:00 PM JT-Shop: I used fengrave
06:04 PM JT-Shop: can't you do 5 phase with the parallel port?
06:05 PM jdh: with a driver
06:06 PM Roguish: not sure.
06:06 PM JT-Shop: yep just looked
06:06 PM Roguish: i'm trolling ebay and alibaba
06:06 PM jdh: pricey vexta and the like
06:06 PM JT-Shop: 4 different types of 5 phase
06:07 PM JT-Shop: time to cook
06:10 PM Tom_L: time to relax
06:25 PM Crom_: just received my 3 200amp retifiers for modding my flux core welders
06:31 PM SpeedEvil: yay
06:39 PM Loetmichel: Crom_: is there a flux core aluminium wire on the market? or ist that not achiveable without argon shield?
06:44 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: it's been tried in special applications, nothing available here for general purpose
06:46 PM Loetmichel: sad
06:46 PM Loetmichel: had hopes
06:47 PM CaptHindsight: the flux required was either corrosive or too water absorbent
06:47 PM CaptHindsight: so it required extra special cleaning
06:48 PM CaptHindsight: HF has some aluminum rods for soldering aluminum with a Map or propane torch
06:49 PM CaptHindsight: similar http://www.durafix.com/
06:51 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: i like the "easyness" of AC MIG (wire) welding aluminium with argon gas. but argon is A) expensive as hell and b) empty whenever you need it because some idiot didnt close the bottle all the ways last time.
06:51 PM Loetmichel: so a "can be in the cellar for a year or so and is still ready to use" would have been great
06:52 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, no fun when you work with others that can even close a valve properly
06:52 PM CaptHindsight: can/can't
07:16 PM Crom_: not sure on AL
07:17 PM gregcnc: I've used the aluminum brazing rod, takes some practice
07:18 PM CaptHindsight: I melted some Alu angle waiting for the Alu rod to melt
07:26 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: seems the angle alu was lower melting point alloy than the brazing rod?
08:30 PM BeachBumPete: jeez man I really like Fusion360 but sometimes these 3d toolpaths generations take forever
08:31 PM Tom_L: heh i noticed that on that pocket
08:31 PM Tom_L: it's doing some serious calcs
08:31 PM BeachBumPete: yeah I am back working on that guitar again now
08:31 PM Tom_L: did you see my comments on the chamfer tool?
08:31 PM BeachBumPete: probably not
08:31 PM Tom_L: these guys are awesome
08:31 PM BeachBumPete: what guys
08:32 PM Tom_L: called the local tool grinder around 12:30 and picked up the chamfer tool they ground from an endmill at ~3
08:33 PM Tom_L: i was just asking if they happened to have one...
08:33 PM BeachBumPete: nice
08:33 PM Tom_L: the gal at the desk said hang on... when she came back she took what i wanted and said the guy'll have it in a hour
08:34 PM Tom_L: they've got probably 2 dozen cnc grinders
08:35 PM CaptHindsight: they made you wait!? :)
08:35 PM Tom_L: hah
08:35 PM Tom_L: no, i had lunch
08:35 PM BeachBumPete: how much did they charge ya?
08:36 PM Tom_L: it was a bit more than you paid :)
08:36 PM BeachBumPete: I figured
08:36 PM Tom_L: i think it was probably just a standard grind charge
08:36 PM Tom_L: 35
08:36 PM BeachBumPete: did you try it yet?
08:37 PM Tom_L: no but i'm working on the cam right now
08:37 PM BeachBumPete: like I said I am fairly pleased with the one I got
08:37 PM BeachBumPete: as long as my feedrates are on the finish looks real good
08:37 PM Tom_L: despite the cost, i was quite impressed with their service
08:38 PM Tom_L: do you climb or conventional cut the chamfer?
08:38 PM BeachBumPete: climb usually
08:39 PM BeachBumPete: altho I honestly dont remember offhand ;)
08:39 PM Tom_L: i figure if i go .125 down from the tip and .125 -.020 offset that should get me close to a .20 chamfer
08:40 PM Tom_L: then adjust from there
08:40 PM Tom_L: probably a little deeper
08:40 PM Tom_L: once i figure it i'll remember how i set it
08:40 PM BeachBumPete: I always draw a little 2D cad drawing to figure that shit out LOL
08:41 PM jdh: surely your cam will do the calc?
08:41 PM Tom_L: it does
08:41 PM BeachBumPete: yeah
08:41 PM Tom_L: but i still have to tell it the offset
08:41 PM BeachBumPete: fusion does anyway
08:42 PM Tom_L: for now, i'm still faster in my old cad cam
08:42 PM BeachBumPete: I gotta say I am liking F360
08:43 PM Tom_L: it's useable
08:43 PM Tom_L: it's lacking in some ways
08:43 PM BeachBumPete: not a fan of the cloud but aside from the generation times it works well
08:43 PM Tom_L: got a ssd?
08:43 PM Tom_L: it's not too bad
08:43 PM BeachBumPete: no
08:44 PM BeachBumPete: the more I use it the more I like it. It does a lot of things automatically that are quite nice
08:44 PM BeachBumPete: in regard to selections and toolpath generations etc.
08:45 PM BeachBumPete: it seems like the 3d paths really take some time but I am sure If I selected other options in them it would improve considerably. Still learning whats what in there.
08:45 PM BeachBumPete: tabs are nice
08:46 PM Tom_L: yeah i saw those
08:48 PM Tom_L: BeachBumPete, have you tried doing multiple fixtures off the same model?
08:49 PM Tom_L: P1 P2 etc
08:51 PM BeachBumPete: no not really
08:51 PM Tom_L: i'm curious how it handles that
08:51 PM Tom_L: or if it does
08:54 PM BeachBumPete: https://i.imgur.com/Di0F9dU.jpg
08:55 PM BeachBumPete: thats what I got so far
08:55 PM Tom_L: is it right? :)
08:55 PM BeachBumPete: why hell np
08:55 PM BeachBumPete: no
08:55 PM Tom_L: how long does that take to generate?
08:56 PM BeachBumPete: well its funny the 3d champfer along the perimeter I had to use a lot of toolpath masking by selecting basically everything else...for some reason that was quite time consuming
08:57 PM BeachBumPete: the stepover on the elbow clearance contour is way too big...
08:59 PM Tom_L: gonna run a test part?
09:00 PM BeachBumPete: oh yeah probably gonna glue up some 2x4's or something
09:03 PM Tom_L: how does it let you specify OP stops for things like changing clamps or fixturing?
09:04 PM BeachBumPete: you can use geometry to limit toolpath areas and you can actually use their library of workholding stuff to insert clamps into the model
09:08 PM BeachBumPete: I am trying to reverse the entry point on this wide 3d contour right now
09:13 PM BeachBumPete: ok setting up tool orientation properly helped ;)
09:17 PM BeachBumPete: according to this my entire program is only 2.5 hours
09:20 PM Tom_L: i think when i generated that pocket it was something like 40 min
09:20 PM BeachBumPete: since I am going to be cutting this using my heavy duty router mount on the mill I am gonna have to edit the code to take out coolant and spindle commands as well as I will have to add option stops so I can swap tools etc. but even 2.5 hours for one side is not terrible I think, Hell 3 hours would be fine if it turned out ok
09:20 PM Tom_L: using their default tool data
09:21 PM BeachBumPete: my laptop is PISSING ME OFF
09:21 PM Tom_L: we had some that ran a week or more
09:21 PM BeachBumPete: battery is basically gone
09:21 PM BeachBumPete: and the charging cable is shot
09:21 PM Tom_L: been thru that a few times
09:21 PM BeachBumPete: I ordered a new battery on fleabay as well as a new charger
09:21 PM BeachBumPete: it cant get here soon enough
09:23 PM Tom_L: your data is safe on the cloud :D
09:23 PM BeachBumPete: its funny you mention that
09:23 PM BeachBumPete: earlier I was in the middle of that 3d programming
09:23 PM BeachBumPete: and my cable was screwing with me
09:24 PM BeachBumPete: so it was not charging
09:24 PM BeachBumPete: and the battery was basically dead
09:24 PM BeachBumPete: so everything shut down
09:24 PM BeachBumPete: I though OH HELL
09:24 PM BeachBumPete: I probably lost everything I just did
09:24 PM BeachBumPete: but when I restarted it was all there...
09:24 PM BeachBumPete: I think you can set a save point periodically
09:24 PM BeachBumPete: BRB
09:25 PM Tom_L: it has a default save time when you install it
09:25 PM Tom_L: i forgot what it was set to
09:27 PM branjb: If a spindle is rated at 1.5KW, where does that power rating come from? The output current * V?
09:30 PM hazzy-dev: If it is a Chinese spindle it is the power at which it tunes into a lump of slag on the ground
09:32 PM hazzy-dev: Actually, that is a good question, I always assumed it was the mechanical power output, but I guess that may not be the case
09:33 PM branjb: I always thought the two were related
09:33 PM Tom_L: loss is a factor
09:34 PM hazzy-dev: They are related, but the mechanical output will alway be less than the electrical power input.
09:34 PM Tom_L: ^^ loss :)
09:34 PM hazzy-dev: I would expect most spindles would be around 80% efficient
09:35 PM hazzy-dev: Tom_L types faster than hazzy
09:35 PM hazzy-dev: Much faster :)
09:35 PM Tom_L: no just fewer workds
09:35 PM Tom_L: words
09:36 PM CaptHindsight: 200V x 2A = 400W or 700 Chinese watts
09:36 PM branjb: what does the max current rating mean then?
09:37 PM branjb: ie if you had a 800W spindle with max current of 10A
09:37 PM Tom_L: it means if you exceed that it will glow in the dark
09:37 PM branjb: 10A @ 200V is 2KW not 800W
09:38 PM hazzy-dev: That probably is peak draw ad start up
09:38 PM Tom_L: the winding insulation will start to break down due to heat
09:38 PM Tom_L: and eventually you'll have a lump of goo on the floor
09:38 PM roycroft: i think your answer was close to correct, branjb
09:38 PM CaptHindsight: motor efficiency varies
09:38 PM CaptHindsight: 50-90$
09:38 PM jdh: q
09:38 PM roycroft: the rated current of a chinse spindle is the current at which enough of them do not turn into molten lumps on the ground that the factory can still sell them
09:38 PM CaptHindsight: % even
09:38 PM branjb: ah, so it's just a peak current thing? if it were 200V it shouldn't ever draw more than 4A while opreating?
09:41 PM roycroft: the magic smoke escaped from my first chinese spindle even though i never exeeded the rated current
09:41 PM roycroft: fortunately its replacement is working fine
09:41 PM roycroft: unfortunately the first one sat around for a while before got ready to put it in service, and when the smoke escaped it was too late to return/replace
09:42 PM hazzy-dev: roycroft: I wonder if IBM smoke might be compatible with your spindle, you can get it: http://ibm-1401.info/pictures/MagicSmoke.jpg
09:43 PM roycroft: possibly
09:44 PM roycroft: but it does not matter, as we all know that once the magic smoke makes an escape it cannot be put back in, nor any replacement smoke
09:44 PM hazzy-dev: That is old slow IBM smoke though, so maybe it would spin too slow
09:44 PM roycroft: electronics have one-way smoke membranes
09:44 PM roycroft: i can escape but never enter
09:44 PM roycroft: it
09:45 PM hazzy-dev: You mean IBM was ripping people of by selling replacement smoke?
09:45 PM roycroft: i said "electronics", not "ibm"
09:45 PM roycroft: their mainframes were a combination of electronics and magic
09:46 PM roycroft: which is why they had to maintain a priesthood to service them
09:46 PM hazzy-dev: Ah, that makes sense
09:50 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20180315-aon3d-releases-aon-m2-professional-3d-printer-with-120c-chamber.html
09:53 PM hazzy-dev: CaptHindsight: That looks like a nice printer! Maybe I would have better luck printing Ultem with that ...
09:54 PM ziper: anyone here use rhinocad
09:55 PM Tom_L: i don't recall much mention of it here
09:55 PM Tom_L: if any
09:56 PM ziper: i learned on solidworks but there is a job near me that uses it so I was checking it out
09:56 PM CaptHindsight: https://gomeasure3d.com/rhino/
09:56 PM ziper: I kindof like the interface but of course there is a learning curve
09:57 PM branjb: i have a friend who uses it, likes it more than aspire
09:57 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.rhino3d.com/
10:09 PM hazzy-dev: ziper: My brother is an industrial designer and used to use Rhino and RhinoCAM a good bit at work
10:09 PM hazzy-dev: I did not get the impression it was intended for mechanical type CAD, more like blender I think
10:09 PM hazzy-dev: But then that was 10yr ago so it might have come a long ways since then
10:10 PM ziper: the job I was looking at is just taking a 2d pattern from a picture and dimensioning it
10:11 PM Tom_L: simple enough
10:11 PM ziper: I assume its just taken from with a low distortion lens from a known position and angle
10:11 PM ziper: and then trig'd flat and traced
10:21 PM hazzy-dev: wow, BIG storm here
10:21 PM hazzy-dev: lots of hail and wind