#linuxcnc Logs

Mar 16 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:47 AM evilren_ is now known as renz
12:57 AM miss0r: goodmorning
01:00 AM fragalot: morning
01:01 AM pink_vampire: hi miss0r and fragalot
01:02 AM miss0r: hello
01:15 AM fragalot: miss0r: https://imgur.com/gallery/RDmis <= I believe this is the vacuum pump I ordered
01:16 AM miss0r: hehe. look at that fellah go :D
01:23 AM miss0r: :-/ I had to design in some bolt holes in the skeletal parts here, so I can fit it properly while milling
01:23 AM miss0r: lets call'em speed holes
01:23 AM fragalot: >.<
01:32 AM miss0r: Too nity parts for glue to hang on to, and it would be hell to flip them ect
01:32 AM miss0r: nity=tiny lol
01:32 AM fragalot: not worth making soft jaws for either I assume
01:33 AM miss0r: no. 2 of each...
01:33 AM fragalot: have you considered turning up the gravity?
01:34 AM McBride36 is now known as Guest47659
01:34 AM miss0r: I have.. But that also seems like alot of work for only a few parts
01:35 AM fragalot: and there is no way to do it in 2 ops?
01:35 AM fragalot: clamp, cut out skeletal part, clamp from inside, cut contour?
01:38 AM miss0r: There is no 'inside'. I 'could' break up the outer contour into two runs, and move the clamps in betwen. but the part is so small, I run a serious risk of it moving when I loosen one of the possible two clamps
01:39 AM fragalot: what about the age old technique of using tabs
01:39 AM miss0r: Short of adding taps to it, I think the screws are the only choice
01:39 AM miss0r: ;)
01:39 AM fragalot: first.
01:39 AM fragalot: :D
01:39 AM miss0r: but I want a pretty milled surface
01:39 AM miss0r: shiny damn you!
01:40 AM miss0r: i'll add two 3,5mm holes in each, and use 3mm bolts to hold it down
01:45 AM fragalot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9t-slLl30E&feature=youtu.be
01:46 AM miss0r: you, sir, are bad for productivity ;)
01:46 AM fragalot: :D
01:47 AM fragalot: I'm not on the clock yet, so ha. :D
01:47 AM miss0r: yeha, my boss would kill me, if he saw me wasting time on that stuff :]
01:50 AM fragalot: rightfully so.
01:50 AM miss0r: I have to go pull the main shaft on the huge mill i've been working on, this weekend
01:50 AM fragalot: he owns you, after all
01:50 AM miss0r: indeed
01:51 AM miss0r: it has a break and a clutch on the same shaft, both working oposite of eachother on the same oil pressure transferred in a bore in the center of the shaft. One of them is leaking the pressure it the clutch does not properly engage.
01:52 AM miss0r: This mill is from the day'n age before VFDs, so theres ALOT of gears in that main housing, and this shaft is right in the middle. I've ordered a mobile crane to help me get the covers off
01:52 AM miss0r: The machine itself weighs in at around 100tons
01:52 AM miss0r: 97 I think actualy
01:55 AM miss0r: Alright, i'm off to start the mill... "Gotta keep that spindle time up" ;)
01:56 AM fragalot: hope it's just the seal, and not a worn sealing surface on the shaft
01:56 AM fragalot: )
01:57 AM fragalot: I'm off to work too,.. need to finish that damn frequency sensing part of the controller... (has to work with a range of 0.001Hz up to 250kHz.. accurately.)
02:05 AM IchGucksLive: morning
02:06 AM pink_vampire: hi IchGucksLive
02:06 AM IchGucksLive: ;-)
02:06 AM pink_vampire: IchGucksLive: what are you using as a coolant for the spindle?
02:07 AM IchGucksLive: AIR
02:08 AM pink_vampire: i have the water cooled one
02:09 AM IchGucksLive: use colored water to see the flow
02:09 AM pink_vampire: flow meter will be better
02:10 AM IchGucksLive: there is a color with waight levels so it changes color on flow
02:11 AM pink_vampire: i think flow meter is the best way to go
02:11 AM IchGucksLive: yes around 30USD
02:12 AM IchGucksLive: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Euroglas-Analytical-Instruments-SHO-Rate-Flow-Meter-1350-D1Z9A1A5E000/132356522736
02:12 AM IchGucksLive: solar suppy gives you a real good start as homedepo supplies also
02:16 AM IchGucksLive: Homemade Flowmeter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbeJeLXn8SU&list=PLPCWVUG1UX8Pkyy-BZ0OOWDUYN9MmRBP9
02:16 AM pink_vampire: no need for that
02:17 AM IchGucksLive: agree best to buy
02:18 AM pink_vampire: https://www.omega.com/technical-learning/thermal-mass-flow-working-principle-theory-and-design.html
02:19 AM IchGucksLive: high tech for low usige
02:19 AM pink_vampire: no moving parts
02:19 AM IchGucksLive: like the construction side in miami
02:20 AM IchGucksLive: how cudt they bring in the bridge with the fixed bearing both side not filled
02:21 AM IchGucksLive: this is a courdination fail
02:21 AM IchGucksLive: GOV related timeline scedual not to be construction based
02:25 AM pink_vampire: did you ever machined foam?
02:25 AM IchGucksLive: yes ofcause lots of things
02:26 AM IchGucksLive: best to go rought cutter
02:26 AM pink_vampire: what is rought cutter?
02:27 AM IchGucksLive: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Fraser-VHM-Schruppfraser-d-8mm-2-Stuck/273111897010
02:27 AM IchGucksLive: the dimond ones 3.175 for instand
02:29 AM IchGucksLive: https://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-Carbide-End-Mill-0625-Fish-tail-Diamond-Cut-CNC-Router-PCB-1-8-shank-USA/172842376389
02:30 AM IchGucksLive: pink_vampire: thewre are 4 sorts of foam to be used on diverend shapes
02:31 AM IchGucksLive: the harden one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polystyrene
02:31 AM pink_vampire: what about 4 flute carbide endmill?
02:32 AM IchGucksLive: the flat endmill will not do the job they melt it and squice it but no real cut
02:33 AM pink_vampire: how meany rpm to use?
02:33 AM Deejay: moin
02:33 AM IchGucksLive: i use always 6k rpm
02:33 AM pink_vampire: i'm going to try it now with my new spindle
02:33 AM IchGucksLive: and around 100ipm
02:34 AM pink_vampire: 1/8 4 flute
02:36 AM IchGucksLive: yoiu need to try out the best values
02:36 AM IchGucksLive: ther is no calc like steel
02:36 AM miss0r: I'm looking into getting one of thoes noga mist coolant units.. Can a regular small shop compressor keep up without burning out?
02:37 AM IchGucksLive: miss0r: why not dry air painter
02:37 AM IchGucksLive: it produces a real good mist
02:37 AM IchGucksLive: no AIR needed
02:37 AM miss0r: because I want better chip evacuation
02:38 AM IchGucksLive: miss0r: negative is only the amount of fluid you can pressurise
02:39 AM IchGucksLive: im off i got a Fire Alarm BYE
02:39 AM miss0r: .? I get the physics, but what does that have to do with it ? :)
02:49 AM pink_vampire: i want to make new part from phenolic laminated with the new spindle
03:00 AM miss0r: sounds messy
03:01 AM pink_vampire: according to hsm i need 22K rpm, and 7000mm/min
03:03 AM miss0r: wow
03:04 AM miss0r: thats alot
03:05 AM pink_vampire: technically I can push the machine up to 15000mm/min, but I normally work with 2400mm/min as my rapid
03:09 AM miss0r: That is pretty fast :D my machine does rapids at 5000mm/min.. and I usualy run 800mm/min when I do cuts.. but I AM limited to 4k rpm spindle speed
03:12 AM Deejay: re
03:12 AM pink_vampire: on the new spindle it drop the machining speed from 5:29min to 0:29
03:13 AM pink_vampire: and that is only because i set the feed to 2400mm/min
03:13 AM miss0r: sweet!
03:14 AM miss0r: I've been considering getting one of thoes 1:4 ISO40 gear heads
03:14 AM miss0r: That would cut down my machining time alot as well
03:14 AM pink_vampire: with the 7000mm/min it give me 0:19 !
03:15 AM miss0r: Feel like making a video of that for me ? :D That sounds impressive :]
03:15 AM pink_vampire: i need to do the setup
03:15 AM pink_vampire: hope it will not smoke the endmill
03:16 AM miss0r: with a bit of coolant you should be fine.. Unless you run HSS :D
03:16 AM pink_vampire: it's phenolic
03:17 AM miss0r: The endmill material
03:17 AM pink_vampire: carbide
03:17 AM miss0r: indeed, as long as its not a hss endmill, you should be fine
03:18 AM pink_vampire: hope..
03:18 AM pink_vampire: it is the fabric type phenolic
03:19 AM miss0r: what are you doing for coolant?
03:19 AM pink_vampire: just air
03:19 AM pink_vampire: i need the phenolic to stay dry
03:20 AM miss0r: alright. as long as you are using air :)
03:30 AM Matej_: hello
03:30 AM fragalot: hi
03:31 AM Matej_: I have a problem when installing linuxcnc on virtualbox
03:32 AM Matej_: when i start config picker and select axis it says linuxcnc reported with an error and then give me an error code
03:32 AM Matej_: is anyone familiar with this? I can post an error code..
03:40 AM gloops: first time linuxcnc installed?
03:42 AM Matej_: yes
03:44 AM gloops: tried restarting?
03:47 AM Matej_: also
03:47 AM miss0r: fragalot: You are on the clock now, Let me show you some kewl videos ? :D
03:48 AM fragalot: miss0r: no.
03:48 AM Matej_: this is the error code it provides
03:48 AM Matej_: https://pastebin.com/Zz5cGwxt
03:48 AM miss0r: fragalot: hehe
03:51 AM gloops: Error: Module rtai_hal is in use
03:52 AM gloops: you need one of the developers Matej_
03:52 AM miss0r: i'm sorry.. DID I MAKE IT SOUND LIKE A QUESTION TO YOU ?! :D
03:53 AM Matej_: what do you mean by one of developers?
03:53 AM gloops: RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
03:54 AM gloops: he people who develop linuxcnc, some of them are in here, but not atm it seems
03:54 AM gloops: myself i would re-install but someone may explain the error codes youre getting
03:56 AM gloops: pcw_mesa
03:56 AM Matej_: aha ok, i didn know that they are here
03:57 AM Matej_: i will try to reinstall it
03:59 AM gloops: are you doing a clean install on the full drive?
04:00 AM fragalot: gloops: he is installed it in a virtualbox environment
04:00 AM fragalot: i'm not sure if linuxcnc can work in a virtual environment
04:00 AM rob_h: maybe if you run it from command line, it will show you the real error when it happens
04:01 AM gloops: fragalot yes thats likely the problem
04:02 AM rob_h: i run a test version in a Oracle WM box and runs ok, just alot of real time errors but to be exspected
04:03 AM gloops: i had this when i tried installing on mint
04:03 AM gloops: but i had no idea what i was doing
04:04 AM rob_h: did install from live CD or build him self
04:05 AM Matej_: what do u mean by clean install and full drive?
04:05 AM Matej_: i did graphical install
04:06 AM gloops: nothing else on the hard drive?
04:07 AM Matej_: https://pastebin.com/rHdDQTDz
04:07 AM Matej_: i have my windows , but linuxcnc is on virtualbox
04:08 AM Matej_: this is whati get if i run it from command line
04:09 AM gloops: you could do with a spare hard drive and install the linuxcnc iso on it
04:10 AM gloops: you dont want anything else running at the same time really
04:11 AM Matej_: ok
04:11 AM Matej_: how can i do that
04:12 AM rob_h: Realtime system did not load .. what does uname -a
04:14 AM miss0r: fak... ! I don't have a 3mm tap with a long enough reach to do what I want here
04:15 AM rob_h: time to grind it back
04:15 AM miss0r: Yeah, that won't solve this :D
04:15 AM miss0r: I have to do a 3mm thread inside a 30mm deep bore. so the tread starting from -30 and continues to -37...
04:16 AM miss0r: My tools are too short
04:16 AM gloops: extension?
04:16 AM fragalot: miss0r: will an extension fit?
04:16 AM miss0r: fragalot: the hole is only 3.4mm in diameter
04:16 AM fragalot: time to make a specialty tap to tread from the back side :P
04:17 AM miss0r: hehe. its a blond hole
04:17 AM miss0r: with an I
04:17 AM fragalot: blondi?
04:17 AM miss0r: exactly
04:17 AM miss0r: I knew you'd get it ;)
04:17 AM Loetmichel: tap the whole hole and drill down to -30 with a 3.4mm drill afterwards?
04:17 AM rob_h: from essex
04:18 AM gloops: weld bar onto tap, grind weld flush
04:18 AM miss0r: Loetmichel: what ? :s
04:18 AM miss0r: gloops: yeah, I think that'll be the solution...
04:18 AM Loetmichel: ah, problem is that the tap is to short?
04:19 AM miss0r: Loetmichel: yeah ;)
04:19 AM Loetmichel: hmmm
04:19 AM rob_h: i think OSG etc make long shank taps
04:19 AM Loetmichel: my M3 taps are all about 70mm long...
04:20 AM Loetmichel: correction, 60mm
04:20 AM Loetmichel: just measured one
04:20 AM gloops: Matej_ you know how to add a hard drive to your PC? plug it in, boot into that drive and install linuxcnc on it, overwrite everything
04:20 AM miss0r: I'll see if I have a longer tap somewhere I can grind down the shoulder on
04:21 AM gloops: - id unplug your windows hard drive while you install
04:21 AM Loetmichel: so ot shouldnt be that big of a problem to grind one down to 40mm "depth" and still have 20mm to grip it ;)
04:21 AM gloops: then you will have a hard drive with only debian/linuxcnc on it
04:21 AM miss0r: I have a 60mm one here... Time to grind
04:22 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15265 <- i use these nearly exclusievely
04:24 AM Matej_: gloops thak you..i will try that right away!
04:26 AM gloops: just be careful Matej_ with your windows drive or other hard drives with important stuff on, id unplug them during the linuxcnc install, you can use them normally once youve installed linuxcnc on the spare drive
04:26 AM gloops: you dont want to be wiping the wrong drive
04:26 AM Matej_: only how can i unplug them?
04:27 AM Matej_: i have windows on my ssd inside the laptop
04:27 AM gloops: well, remove the plugs
04:28 AM Matej_: they are inside the laptop
04:28 AM gloops: ahh laptop
04:29 AM Matej_: yep
04:29 AM Matej_: but its a good one haha
04:31 AM Matej_: so it is okay if i boot it from a 8gb usb?
04:32 AM miss0r: the reground tap did the trick, yay
04:32 AM gloops: yes you can run virtually from usb
04:32 AM pink_vampire: Loetmichel: what setting are you using for slotting in aluminum?
04:32 AM gloops: it does not save anything though
04:32 AM Matej_: gloops should i install it live or graphical?
04:33 AM pink_vampire: 1/8" sheet of aluminum
04:34 AM XXCoder: heys
04:34 AM gloops: errm, cant remember now i had it running from usb, try graphical
04:34 AM pink_vampire: hii XXCoder
04:34 AM XXCoder: how goes steel cutting
04:34 AM pink_vampire: work fine
04:34 AM XXCoder: nice
04:34 AM gloops: there is someone on a facebook group who claims to have written a script to allow to run fully from usb, i never tried it though
04:35 AM pink_vampire: 22k rpm, 1500mm/min
04:36 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: ^
04:36 AM gloops: well i suppose ill have to head out and make some motor cash
04:37 AM XXCoder: not bad
04:37 AM pink_vampire: what is the max depth of cut do you think i can use?
04:38 AM pink_vampire: i'm talking about 1/8" 4 flute flat endmill
04:39 AM XXCoder: maybe test cut on scrap steel
04:39 AM gloops: Matej_ what many people do for the cnc, is get an old desktop PC, stick some extra RAM in it and a 3d graphics card, just use that for the cnc, nothing else, they work fine for stepper machines with parallel port - $20
04:39 AM XXCoder: see what works and what does not
04:39 AM fragalot: miss0r: how deep does your EDM go down a 3mm hole? :P
04:39 AM miss0r: fragalot: potentially 120mm ;) not that I needed it for this thou :D
04:39 AM pink_vampire: now i'm on 0.1mm depth of cut
04:40 AM miss0r: pink_vampire: You should've set up a life stream :D
04:40 AM pink_vampire: i need to get a camera
04:41 AM miss0r: I'm at 15mm depth of cut now... 30 is deep :o
04:43 AM miss0r: This would've been nice with a mister. I'm having a hard time evacuating the chips
04:43 AM Matej_: gloops i agree but this is just an expriment for now
04:43 AM miss0r: fragalot: Do you know anything about mist coolant? (how much air I'd need) I'm wondering if it'd kill my shop compressor
04:44 AM gloops: yes, run it from usb to practice
04:44 AM XXCoder: miss0r: its quite variable though I never ran one off small shop compressor only giant shop compressor lol
04:44 AM fragalot: miss0r: I use a small 2.5hp one with mine, but it does run almost continuously to power one of those chinesium mist coolant setups
04:45 AM fragalot: I'm also not a fan of the fog it creates
04:45 AM fragalot: most of the time I run my tools dry, and have a small air nozzle on it to blow chips out of the way
04:45 AM miss0r: my shop compressor is only 1.5hp It will surely die
04:45 AM Loetmichel: pink_vampire: usually 24krpm, 120mm/m, 0.15mm DOC with a 2mm 2 flute carbide mill on alMg3
04:45 AM Loetmichel: dry
04:46 AM * miss0r starts looking for an affordable screw compressor :D
04:46 AM Loetmichel: if you use Al99 or AlMg1 or similar "smear" stuff you will need some coolant/lubricant
04:47 AM miss0r: fragalot: I think I can live with the fog... I'll just ventilate
04:48 AM pink_vampire: on the 1000rpm i'm using 150mm/min 0.5mm depth of cut, this is for 2024-t3 dry 4 flute endmill
04:48 AM Loetmichel: pink_vampire: and DONT use TiN coated mills for aluminium
04:49 AM miss0r: shove it back to the nature, from where it came :D
04:49 AM Loetmichel: use carbide ones that have polished flutes. or you will regret it.
04:49 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: yup - I mostly do C45 steel, there a good coating and putting some heat into the chips works fine
04:49 AM Loetmichel: (alu sticks VERY well to TiN)
04:49 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: good tip
04:49 AM XXCoder: yeah
04:50 AM pink_vampire: after the mist nozzle there is almost zero chips near the cutting area
04:50 AM pink_vampire: and it use baby oil is lubricant
04:54 AM Loetmichel: hihi
04:55 AM pink_vampire: just use oil
04:56 AM pink_vampire: Loetmichel: is there any advantage to alMg3 over 2024-t3?
04:57 AM pink_vampire: https://www.makeitfrom.com/compare/2024-T3-Aluminum/5754-AlMg3-3.3535-A95754-Aluminum
04:59 AM XXCoder: Think can't remelt and recycle AlMg3 due to Mg getting super hot and melting kiln or whatever
04:59 AM XXCoder: probabky wrong
04:59 AM pink_vampire: i don't understand why he work with it
05:04 AM Loetmichel: pink_vampire: no idea
05:04 AM Loetmichel: never used that
05:04 AM miss0r: My mill have a stupid flaw... It tends to accelerate too fast running G0 when set at 100% feed sometimes. which causes it to loose its position & need to be re homed... *sigh* It just happened, now I hope I was able to use the 3D taster on a sloped surface proberly :|
05:04 AM Loetmichel: the AlMg3 has the advantage of not "smearing"
05:04 AM Loetmichel: it feels more like cast aluminium when milling
05:04 AM Loetmichel: but its still bendable
05:05 AM XXCoder: miss0r: turn down on max accel?
05:05 AM miss0r: XXCoder: yeah. But its not that straight forward with this one
05:06 AM miss0r: This philips 432 controller is an illusive one
05:06 AM pink_vampire: Machinability: Average
05:06 AM renz: miss0r: turn accel down?
05:06 AM renz: oh
05:06 AM renz: what xxcoder says
05:06 AM XXCoder: lol
05:07 AM renz: take everything apart and clean all the things!
05:07 AM XXCoder: miss0r: hopefully can find whats going on
05:07 AM miss0r: I usualy just run the machine feed at 80% when it gets close to a G0. but I forgot this time *sigh*
05:07 AM pink_vampire: the AlMg3 has no advantage for machining.
05:07 AM miss0r: Time to pick up the milling. fingers crossed
05:08 AM renz: is 2024 cheap or something?
05:10 AM renz: that shit is like 3x 6061
05:10 AM Loetmichel: pink_vampire: the MG makes it a bit more brittle and less "smeary", thats all
05:11 AM Loetmichel: and its definetly better to mill dry than AlMg1
05:11 AM Loetmichel: because of that
05:11 AM renz: 2024 is harder
05:11 AM XXCoder: can always just use wd-40
05:11 AM renz: fuck machining cast
05:11 AM XXCoder: lol cast is ok
05:11 AM fragalot: machining cast is fun, especially if you get hard spots
05:12 AM XXCoder: fuck inocel though
05:12 AM renz: but yeah just gotta make chips biggish and get them out of the way
05:12 AM renz: 6061 machine fine dry, even on my tiny cnc
05:13 AM renz: cast or deep pockets i usually squirt with rustlick
05:16 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: i only machine AL with carbide 2flute ground especially for AL. cast aluminum mills well with that
05:16 AM Loetmichel: and hard spots dont even register
05:17 AM miss0r: phew, it looks like I was able to pick up the dimensions correctly
05:17 AM miss0r: atleast within 0.01mm
05:17 AM XXCoder: whats your tol at?
05:19 AM miss0r: XXCoder: If that question was for me, I don't understand what you mean
05:19 AM XXCoder: oh sorry by habit used short word. whats your tolence for parts
05:19 AM XXCoder: like .1mm+-
05:20 AM miss0r: tolerance, right :) 0.005
05:20 AM miss0r: doh
05:20 AM miss0r: 0.05
05:20 AM XXCoder: super precise lol
05:20 AM XXCoder: $wa .005mm to inch
05:20 AM miss0r: but I should be plenty on the spot, as I still need the cleanup path
05:21 AM XXCoder: $wa .005 mm to inch
05:22 AM jthornton: morning
05:24 AM XXCoder: dammit wrong channgel for wa. its .00019" lol pretty tiny allright
05:32 AM miss0r: The part turned out to be on spec ! :] I landed it within 0.007
05:32 AM miss0r: On where it matters anyway :]
05:32 AM XXCoder: :)
05:33 AM miss0r: Leaves me just enough time to have a cigarette, eat lunch, and go have a follow up on my root canal :-/
05:33 AM XXCoder: yayy heh
05:34 AM XXCoder: in least its not eat a cigarette, follow up on lunch, then have a root canal
05:35 AM miss0r: That is true :D
05:35 AM miss0r: Last time I was at the dentist, I had an allergic reaction to the sedation... I almost fainted... I hate going to the dentist
05:38 AM jthornton: I have a crown next week
05:38 AM * miss0r feels sorry for jthornton
05:38 AM Tom_L: i hate everything about them
05:38 AM Tom_L: the procedures AND the cost
05:38 AM miss0r: Alright, i'm off to lunch. (not sure I feel like eating afterwards)
05:38 AM jthornton: yea a grand per tooth
05:39 AM Tom_L: they rate right up there with lawyes and doctors
05:39 AM XXCoder: teeth insurance sucks
05:40 AM Tom_L: it's just a re'assuring piece of paper with no backing
05:44 AM Loetmichel: Tom_L: which conuntry?
05:46 AM Loetmichel: here in germany teeth are covered by mandatory heath insurance (sans a cvertain percentage you'llm have to pay yourself, IIRC 10% if you have a full "preventive checks book" and 15 % when not
05:46 AM XXCoder: Loetmichel: thge #1 "health" care country in world
05:47 AM XXCoder: aka usa
05:47 AM Loetmichel: for anything that isnt basic amalgam fillings, they are free
05:47 AM Loetmichel: ( i think plastic fillings are now fully covered, too)
05:48 AM XXCoder: so amalgam arent free but gold filling is?
05:49 AM enleth: it's the land of the *brave*, what do you need the anesthetic for?
05:51 AM enleth: also covered here, but they require a partial paynent to do a root canal instead of extracting the tooth (which is free)
05:51 AM enleth: still 5x cheaper than a private clinic
05:54 AM enleth: also reminded me of this: "Other things which polls have determined to be more popular than Congress include root canals, colonoscopies, head lice, traffic jams, cockroaches, polygamy, and used-car salesmen. "
05:58 AM fragalot: iirc, getting 5 wistom teeth pulled cost me a whopping €80, €75 of which I got back from the mandatory insurance that costs me €80 a year.
05:58 AM fragalot: which is fair, if you ask me. :D
06:00 AM enleth: fragalot: where exactly is the mandatory this cheap?
06:04 AM enleth: I'm paying a percentage of my salary (actually, my employer pays, out of the gross salary), which kinda makes my monthly contribution end up higher than some people's yearly
06:05 AM enleth: (yeah, that kind of pay gap over here, and my pay would be pretty average by, say, German standards)
06:06 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: the other way around. Amalgam fillings (and i think plastic fillings nowadays) are free, gold fillings or crowns you have to pay 10 to 15% yourself
06:07 AM XXCoder: oh your statement was confusing so I asked lol
06:09 AM Loetmichel: enleth: fellow german? i pay 14.5% (from gross income) health insurance IIRC. and the company pays another 12%
06:09 AM Loetmichel: or so
06:09 AM enleth: Loetmichel: Poland
06:09 AM Loetmichel: ah
06:11 AM Loetmichel: <- 253.15€ helath insuarance for 3050€ gross income. each month
06:11 AM Loetmichel: and the employer pays about the same
06:11 AM Loetmichel: (just looked on my salary slip for last month
06:12 AM Loetmichel: hmm, thats only 8%
06:12 AM Loetmichel: maybe its 14.5% in sum with the par the employer pays then
06:13 AM Loetmichel: +t
06:14 AM enleth: Loetmichel: 9% of gross here, so about 290eur out of 3200eur
06:15 AM enleth: pretty sure the employer only contributes to social, not health, outside of that
06:15 AM Loetmichel: in germany he does
06:16 AM Loetmichel: IIRC the government put a stop to the employer rates raising a while ago though since then its asymmetrical
06:16 AM Loetmichel: beforte that it was same as the employee rate
06:18 AM XXCoder: hey Loetmichel
06:18 AM XXCoder: tell your country to invade and take over usa
06:20 AM syyl: we stopped invading other contries after '45
06:20 AM syyl: we leave that to the us now ;)
06:21 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: what syyl said. Alos: Waaaaay to expensive to fix THAT economy.
06:21 AM XXCoder: lol
06:21 AM Loetmichel: we have enough at our hands with greece and stuff :-)
06:21 AM enleth: the difference being that, as far as I am aware, that kind of pay is rather average in Germany, but technically puts me in the top 3 or 4% here, which is absurd. of course, there's quite a bunch of people with *way* higher pay, but technically they're not "employees", so they don't contribute to the statistics
06:22 AM enleth: (management contracts are not employment or something)
06:22 AM Loetmichel: enleth: define "management"
06:22 AM XXCoder: amazon ceo earns 240k usd a minute
06:23 AM syyl: good for him
06:23 AM Loetmichel: technically i am a "production manager".
06:23 AM syyl: and gross at the same time
06:23 AM XXCoder: amazon employees is paid in very low wages and are easily fired
06:23 AM Loetmichel: practically i am still a normal employee
06:23 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: i thinkt thats the difference
06:24 AM Loetmichel: when the last crisis had hit all the world employers fired their staff
06:24 AM XXCoder: I wish theres some kind of ratio cap
06:24 AM XXCoder: like 200 times from lowest paid employee
06:25 AM enleth: Loetmichel: well, C*Os and the likes, there's a special kind of contract for them because, for one, they don't have a manager above them, which is one of the defining traits of "employment" according to law
06:25 AM enleth: indeed they don't so this kinda makes sense
06:25 AM Loetmichel: germans just made "kurzarbeit" (reduced week work hours, difference in salary paid by the government) and when the economy started again we still had our knowledge and workforce to go with it
06:25 AM Loetmichel: the other companys worldwide had to hire and train again
06:26 AM syyl: kurzarbeit was the best time :D
06:26 AM syyl: we basicaly had the same money (minus a little bit..)
06:26 AM syyl: but a three day week.
06:27 AM enleth: Loetmichel: also, a lot of high pay positions are filled by self-employed contractors who issue invoices for their services
06:28 AM enleth: I'm basically a step away from doing that too, I'd start doing that if I got paid any higher
06:29 AM Loetmichel: enleth: i was self employed with a computer service company back in the 90ties
06:29 AM Loetmichel: didnt go that well
06:29 AM enleth: makes the mandatory insurance independent from the actual earnings and much lower for high-pay positions
06:30 AM Loetmichel: as my wife says: "as long as in your mind 1999+1999 is "about 2000" you'd better not have a company".
06:30 AM enleth: heh
06:31 AM enleth: pretty much everyone I know who earns more than I do is self-employed
06:31 AM Loetmichel: also i kinda like all that mandatory insurance stuff... considering how often i hurt myself accidentally ;)
06:31 AM enleth: sometimes solely to avoid the insurances
06:32 AM Loetmichel: in short i am simply to friendly to have a company.
06:32 AM enleth: they still pay those, but way lower, as a self-employed person pretty much declares what their income level is for the purpose of calculating insurance rates
06:33 AM enleth: with a minimum of 2/3rds the national average
06:33 AM Loetmichel: if someone pleads to me "but i am so poor, i cant afford your hourly rates" i tended to do it at reduced rate or even free
06:33 AM Loetmichel: NOT a good thing :-)
06:34 AM gonzo_: any nice people here played with casting refactory?
06:34 AM enleth: Loetmichel: luckily not an issue in IT when you only work for big business
07:49 AM fragalot: gonzo_: preparation is everything.
07:57 AM Guest47659 is now known as McBride36
08:19 AM gloops: right, might have an hour getting these pulley adaptors set up and started
08:32 AM gloops: also received triplex tipped surfacing cutters, they are old, and no discernable make, but appear to be excellent quality
09:45 AM Beachbumpete1: morning ;)
10:17 AM IchGucksLive: hi
10:30 AM gloops: hi Ichs, building anything good?
10:32 AM IchGucksLive: special tools for making Passfeder
10:32 AM IchGucksLive: matching feather
10:33 AM gloops: ok
10:34 AM gregcnc: shaft keys
10:34 AM IchGucksLive: to make them on the lathe
10:34 AM IchGucksLive: in 4 workstages
10:35 AM IchGucksLive: uusing 4x4mm tool at 2Euros
10:36 AM IchGucksLive: i hope this wores fine
10:36 AM gregcnc: are you making keys or broaching slots?
10:36 AM IchGucksLive: got 60 to pull out
10:36 AM IchGucksLive: 24mm long
10:36 AM IchGucksLive: in the pulley
10:37 AM IchGucksLive: AL not that hard to push
10:37 AM IchGucksLive: 1.8mm depth /Hight
10:39 AM gloops: old chuck i was telling enleth about https://ibb.co/i8gbLH
10:39 AM gloops: https://ibb.co/m297Sx
10:40 AM gloops: https://ibb.co/bz4Suc
10:41 AM gloops: wide end of taper socket is about 85mm
10:42 AM IchGucksLive: im of later
10:50 AM gloops: only marking - Elliot standard semi steel
11:00 AM gloops: looking at the chart, it is indeed american L0 fitting
11:08 AM gonzo_: fragalot, was interested in mixes and drying times.
11:09 AM gonzo_: and using fireclay, I'm assuming it's a drying process, rather than a curing, as with concrete
11:12 AM gloops: making a furnace gonzo?
11:34 AM gonzo_: well, soon. But at the mo it's a rocket stove/burner
11:44 AM Loetmichel: gonzo_: isnt fireclay fired the first time its used?
11:44 AM Loetmichel: as any other earthenware?
11:50 AM gonzo_: looks like it
11:51 AM gonzo_: the name sort of gives the game away. I seemed to have convinced myself that it was just high temp mortar/cement and would cure even if wet
11:53 AM roycroft: it won't
11:53 AM roycroft: it will be fairly durable, but if it gets wet it will become pliable again
11:53 AM gonzo_: could be a long dry then!
11:54 AM roycroft: build a fire in it!
11:54 AM roycroft: or maybe you could cure it with a "laser"
11:54 AM gonzo_: once it is firmed up I can start warming it through
11:54 AM roycroft: that would be fun
11:54 AM gonzo_: I'd have to go through quarter plate first, but that is a great excuse to buy a big FO laser
11:55 AM roycroft: the fusing temperature of the clay would be below the melting point of the steel, i am pretty sure
11:55 AM roycroft: so you could heat it all up
11:55 AM roycroft: so go for it!
11:56 AM roycroft: be sure to put goggles on though, so you don't put your eye out with the laser
11:57 AM Beachbumpete1: man I gotta say dealing with used machinery dealers is like pulling teeth ;)
11:58 AM gloops: yes, make fire
12:00 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
12:00 PM gloops: top slide on my lathe is going to crack in half any time lol, just got one pulley adaptor left to turn...
12:00 PM Tom_L: Beachbumpete1 they probably don't know any more about the machine than you do
12:00 PM gloops: if this goes now i will seriously consider this project jinxed
12:00 PM Tom_L: still not movin yet gloops?
12:00 PM gonzo_: once the clay has started to dry, I can start stripping off some of the forms and fire can happen (or just warm it through first)
12:01 PM gloops: the electrics are all back im just making an improved steel adaptor for 2 pulleys, same as the others i made theyre solid
12:01 PM gloops: couple of bits and bobs thats all
12:02 PM gonzo_: could it not be welded ?
12:02 PM gloops: im not going to say a day, but it will be up and running soon, im off for a couple of weeks after next week
12:03 PM roycroft: i'm dealing with used network equipment vendors right now, beachbumpete1
12:03 PM gloops: lathe slide gonzo? i will attempt to weld it - as soon as i finish this router, unlikely to find replacement its over a hundred years old
12:03 PM roycroft: and yes, having similar experiences
12:03 PM roycroft: there are two things one must assume about these folks:
12:03 PM roycroft: 1. they don't really understand the stuff they're selling
12:04 PM roycroft: 2. their concept of a "good fit" for the customer is what they have in stock and from which they can make the most money
12:33 PM miss0r: Goodevening
12:42 PM Deejay: sir
12:45 PM miss0r: Indeed
12:52 PM miss0r: I guess finding a new screw/oil compressor at a low price is not possible... :] for a low price it seems I can choose the following: A) Low noise, low air flow B) High noise, High air flow C) Second hand low noise, medium air flow (possibly broken)...
12:53 PM gloops: whats it for missor?
12:54 PM miss0r: My shop
12:54 PM miss0r: The clapped out 1.5hp regular compressor is noisy AF. AND i plan on starting using some mist coolant in the near future
12:55 PM gloops: oh coolant oil, thought you meant hydraulics
12:56 PM Beachbumpete1: Tom_L Agreed
12:56 PM miss0r: not that either :D Regular air compressor. I'm looking into two options: oil filled compressor or a screw compressor.
12:57 PM miss0r: Both are silent alternatives to this regular old piston compressor, but they are way more expensive to aquire
12:57 PM gloops: right with you now
12:57 PM IchGucksLive: we got a spring welcome event tonight with snow in forcast tomorrow
12:57 PM gloops: cold here today
12:57 PM IchGucksLive: so im off for today lots of action here in forest next 2 weeks
12:57 PM IchGucksLive: have a nice day
12:58 PM gloops: action in the forest..steady on
12:59 PM miss0r: to those of you whom have actualy used a mist coolant before in here: what flow rate should I expect to use? l/min
01:03 PM SpeedEvil: More like min/l AIUI
01:03 PM miss0r: AIUI ?
01:03 PM SpeedEvil: As I understand it
01:04 PM miss0r: I'm asking about the air flow
01:04 PM SpeedEvil: ah
01:04 PM SpeedEvil: sorry
01:04 PM miss0r: Needed from the compressor
01:04 PM SpeedEvil: I was thinking you were meaning water.
01:04 PM SpeedEvil: (or coolant)
01:04 PM miss0r: no problem ;) I'm looking at a new compressor to replace the old one. I'm planning on getting a less noisy one(easy task), but I have no concept of the air flow required
01:07 PM SpeedEvil: You can also cheat and enclose your compressor.
01:09 PM miss0r: Yeah. I have thought about that. but I litterally do not have the room in here to do that
01:10 PM miss0r: I also thought about making an insulated box for it, and moving it into the shed, next to the shop. But I do believe i'd need one with a larger flow rate anyway
01:10 PM gloops: get turbine compressor
01:11 PM miss0r: gloops: First thing on my list for when I get rich
01:20 PM gloops: im wondering if there are standardised sizes of dovetails for machine slides
01:20 PM gloops: or if manufacturers just make them arbitrarily to their own specs
01:21 PM Tom_L: no std
01:21 PM Tom_L: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/dovetail-dimensions-147955/
01:21 PM gloops: nah didnt think so
01:30 PM gloops: https://ibb.co/eyCHuc cant see from this, nice crack running right through
01:30 PM gloops: doubt welding will be any use
01:40 PM methods_: https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/16/17130566/microsoft-windows-10-mail-edge-default-links
01:40 PM methods_: like anyone needs another reason to not use windows lol
01:46 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: has someone rammed the wrong size of bolt into that hole?
01:54 PM gloops: no..certainly not
01:54 PM gloops: that bolt is the tool post bolt
01:55 PM Tom_L: just from overtightening it?
01:55 PM gloops: ill just keep buying random slides on ebay until i find one that fits or that can be adapted
01:55 PM gloops: Tom_L i suspect so
01:56 PM Tom_L: is that cast iron?
01:56 PM gloops: the lathe is pretty worthless but its very old and i like it
01:56 PM gloops: yeah cast
01:56 PM Tom_L: you wouldn't wanna weld that anyway unless you preheated it and cooled it properly
01:57 PM gloops: i dont think cast welding would take the stress of tightening a tool down, i will have to try , just got a little job to try and finish with it
01:58 PM Loetmichel: brazing isnt an option?
01:58 PM Tom_L: get with andy and cast a new part :)
01:58 PM Tom_L: i was gonna suggest brazing
01:58 PM gloops: Loetmichel theres an inch and a half nut on the other side to tighten the tool down
01:59 PM gloops: you cant see the crack really there, it runs along the length of the slide as well, and through to the top
02:01 PM Loetmichel: ouch
02:02 PM methods_: mill it out and put a dutchman in
02:03 PM phaxx: ^ the solution to all known problems
02:03 PM Tom_L: that or jb weld
02:03 PM methods_: hehe
02:05 PM gloops: ill grind the crack out, clamp it closed, get it dull red, weld it, try it
02:05 PM gloops: the solution is going to be to find another slide
02:06 PM Tom_L: get a new chinaco lathe :D
02:07 PM gloops: if i can get a full compound slide i should be able to get it to bolt onto the t slots in the cross slide, might need an adaptor plate
02:07 PM gloops: nah lol
02:09 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Topslide-parts-and-4-tool-post-from-Myford-Super-7-Lathe/142718591777?
02:09 PM gloops: like that
02:18 PM Beachbumpete1: well it looks like we are pulling the trigger on one of those Formlabs Form2 setups with the wash and curing etc. etc.
02:18 PM Tom_L: fun spending somebody else's money
02:18 PM Beachbumpete1: should be interestin to learn how to use that thing. Probably gonna have LOTS of questions for your.
02:18 PM Beachbumpete1: hehehe yeah it is actually.
02:18 PM Beachbumpete1: but WE gotta make all these new machines profitable.
02:19 PM Tom_L: that's where you come in
02:21 PM gloops: form 2 printer?
02:22 PM gloops: So instead of squirting out hot plastic to form a print, it uses lasers to harden the print from a pool of liquid resin. It’s basically witchcraft from the future.
02:23 PM Beachbumpete1: it sure is
02:23 PM Beachbumpete1: pretty cool actually
02:23 PM Beachbumpete1: we also ordered four different resin cartridges and trays black grey white and clear
02:24 PM Beachbumpete1: wont be here for a little while tho we have to put a package finance deal together for all of this equipment.
02:24 PM Beachbumpete1: Trying to find a HAAS VF4 right now
02:24 PM Beachbumpete1: also trying to find a weinig 6 head feed thru moulder
02:24 PM Beachbumpete1: and the 5x12 CNC router
02:24 PM gloops: nice piece of kit anyway
02:25 PM Beachbumpete1: its probably the best of the desktop stuff from what I could find.
02:25 PM gloops: Verdict
02:25 PM gloops: Not at all cheap to run, but the Form 2 is capable of the best print quality you can get from a desktop 3D printer.
02:25 PM gloops: Read more at http://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/formlabs-form-2#5Tef2sApyIiDt1gb.99
02:27 PM Beachbumpete1: probably already read it
02:28 PM Beachbumpete1: it looks good and they actually have after sale support
02:28 PM Beachbumpete1: if it breaks and they cannot fix it over the phone they hot swap it for yours until they get it fixed
02:30 PM gloops: better than cnc motorshop then lol
02:30 PM gloops: all you need now is a full order book
02:31 PM Beachbumpete1: well we already have a LOT of work ahead of us. We are moving into a 10k plus new building and keep this one we are in
02:32 PM Beachbumpete1: we also have a smaller building across the block that is currently the finish building
02:33 PM Tom_L: hvlp?
02:36 PM Beachbumpete1: we have HVLP and airless as well as conv depending on what we are spraying
02:39 PM Beachbumpete1: its really pissin me off about the mills tho. There seems to be tons of HAAS machines out there but they are either 2005 and up for almost 50k or older for around 30k and nothing in between.
02:43 PM gloops: some 15k here for 2005
02:43 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HAAS-VF4SS-High-Speed-Vertical-Machining-Centre-with-Haas-Control-Year-2010/273046196465?
02:43 PM Beachbumpete1: were in USA
02:44 PM Beachbumpete1: we can get a decent VF4 for around $30k but it is an 01 model. a bit long in the tooth honestly
02:45 PM gloops: well you gotta speculate to accumulate
02:45 PM Beachbumpete1: cant catch any fish if you don't cast your line out ;)
02:50 PM Matej_: hey
02:51 PM Matej_: I am running linuxcnc on my laptop and keep getting an error
02:52 PM Matej_: I tried it installing on PC the same way as on laptop and it was successful
02:53 PM Matej_: i suspect it is because the parallel ports which laptop doesnt have
02:54 PM Matej_: so my question is: Is there a chance to add virtual parallel ports on laptop in virtual box? Anyone has an idea maybe?:)
02:57 PM cradek: what is the error?
02:59 PM gloops: Matej_> https://pastebin.com/Zz5cGwxt
03:00 PM Matej_: tahnks gloops
03:00 PM Matej_: yeah that is the error
03:01 PM Matej_: i have been struggling with this all day with no luck
03:03 PM gloops: im not qualified to answer this, plus im making an omelette
03:03 PM Matej_: haha i understand gloops..thanks anyway
03:03 PM Matej_: good appetite;)
03:04 PM gloops: these are all hand picked eggs
03:04 PM gloops: https://ibb.co/bGeQfH
03:04 PM gloops: obviously a little grubby as its like a swamp outside atm
03:06 PM Matej_: haha nice
03:08 PM Beachbumpete1: have a nice weekend everyone.
05:09 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by niven.freenode.net
05:09 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by niven.freenode.net
05:34 PM Deejay: gn8
05:55 PM gloops: slow news day
05:56 PM Tom_L: slow day period
05:57 PM Tom_L: all but the wind and it's doing just fine
06:08 PM gloops: bad winds forecast here for tommorrow, and snow, freezing rain atm
06:08 PM gloops: been a bad after xmas period weather wise
06:09 PM Tom_L: 69°F currently
06:09 PM Tom_L: windy has heck though
06:10 PM JT-Shop: not bad here 56F light rain
06:11 PM gloops: can only be about 2C here, the ground is sodden
06:12 PM BeachBumPete: supposed to be like 75 here tomorrow ;)
06:17 PM gloops: UK snow warning: Heathrow cancels over 100 flights this weekend < here we go again
06:17 PM BeachBumPete: yeah no snow in the forecast here ;)
06:18 PM JT-Shop: lol
06:18 PM gloops: no sun in ours
06:18 PM JT-Shop: say goodnight Gracie
06:19 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, did you get the transformer issue fixed?
06:21 PM Tom_L: BeachBumPete's gonna be printing smurfs soon
06:22 PM BeachBumPete: yoda heads man....YODA
06:22 PM BeachBumPete: or maybe we will scan my pretty face with the new 3D scanner and print some a doze... :)
06:22 PM Tom_L: shut your eyes first
06:22 PM gloops: theres a model of some old bloke with his hand over his face doing the rounds atm
06:23 PM BeachBumPete: nope gotta wear shades ;)
06:23 PM BeachBumPete: I could sell em on fleabay make a mint
06:24 PM Tom_L: what's different about vactra 1 and vactra 2?
06:24 PM Tom_L: both way oil
06:26 PM BeachBumPete: no idea. I had vactra for my lathe but cant recall which one
06:26 PM Tom_L: we always used vactra 2
06:27 PM Tom_L: trying to find it in gallon size, my bud said i can come out and get a jar full but i hate to do that
06:27 PM Tom_L: local only sells 5 gal
06:27 PM Tom_L: and i don't need that much
06:28 PM BeachBumPete: I think I had a gallone jug
06:28 PM Tom_L: it's sold in gallons, just not locally
06:31 PM Tom_L: viscosity for one
06:31 PM Tom_itx: https://www.mobil.com/English-US/Industrial/pds/GLXXMobil-Vactra-Oil-Numbered-Series
06:32 PM Tom_L: 4 must be like molasses
09:38 PM enleth: lathe arrived
09:39 PM enleth: took 2 hours to get the damn thing from the truck to the lift, truck was 20cm too low
09:39 PM enleth: then an hour to get it positioned in the lift, and pulled out of it into the shop
09:40 PM enleth: it's in a really great shape
09:50 PM Tom_L: nice
10:12 PM enleth: I am confused by one thing, though - it does have a feed screw for threading only, separate from the powe feed bar, separate threading gearbox and all that, but no threading dial
10:13 PM enleth: how does one cut threads on a manual lathe without a threading dial?
10:13 PM enleth: I mean, sure, there are ways
10:15 PM roycroft: don't disengage the cutter when going back for another cut
10:16 PM roycroft: er, don't disengage the half nut
10:16 PM enleth: but it's weird on a machine that is otherwise quite sophisticated
10:16 PM roycroft: back the cutter off
10:16 PM roycroft: leave the have nut engaged
10:17 PM roycroft: turn off the lathe
10:17 PM roycroft: reverse
10:17 PM roycroft: move the cutter back in
10:17 PM roycroft: and take another pass
10:17 PM enleth: at least it's got a quick reverse lever
10:18 PM roycroft: it's what one does when cutting metric threads on a lathe with an imperial/us customary screw and vice versa
10:18 PM roycroft: even with a threading dial