#linuxcnc Logs

Mar 13 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:55 AM fragalot: hi
01:03 AM miss0r: hello
01:06 AM fragalot: xD this old tony's last video @ 14:20
01:08 AM miss0r: NO SPOILERS! watching it now
01:08 AM miss0r: i'm only at 4:20
01:08 AM fragalot: I just like how half the gags take you a minute to appreciate
01:09 AM miss0r: I sometimes wake up in the middle of night laughing, because i got one :)
01:10 AM fragalot: xD
01:17 AM fragalot: it's weird to see how gel-like his cutting oil is.. Must be cold there
01:18 AM miss0r: yeah, lol @14:20 :)
01:29 AM miss0r: I think it would be fun to have this old tony in here for a talk at some point :)
01:30 AM fragalot: yeah he seems like a swell guy
01:31 AM miss0r: video editing, perhaps. but yeah
01:31 AM fragalot: I couldn't do it, so it earns my respect. :)
01:31 AM fragalot: pictures, sure, all you want, but video is black magic
01:31 AM miss0r: couldnt' you build that ?
01:32 AM miss0r: ahh
01:32 AM miss0r: yeah!
01:32 AM miss0r: it takes ALOT of effort, that is not for me :)
01:47 AM fragalot: damnit, the news is telling people that local supermarkets are more expensive than the ones in our neighbouring countries
01:48 AM fragalot: that's going to result in more traffic for me when I go abroad to shop >.<
01:53 AM IchGucksLive: hi
01:53 AM fragalot: morning
01:55 AM IchGucksLive: im off for Forest school chain saw event around the hoouse
01:55 AM IchGucksLive: getting a cool day for boys
01:55 AM IchGucksLive: even at my age
01:57 AM gloops: chainsaws and boys arent a very wise combination...
01:59 AM gloops: well, according to best wiring practices, switch cables ought to be twisted, so i rekcon ive got over 30ft of twisting to do this morning
01:59 AM fragalot: gloops: 2 wires, bench vise, electric drill
01:59 AM fragalot: takes 2 minutes :)
01:59 AM gloops: hmm good idea i was trying to think of a quick way
02:00 AM gloops: my idea had a stick though
02:13 AM miss0r: I forgot how slow it is to do milling with small endmills
02:13 AM miss0r: With my desktop cnc atleast.. 5 hours to complete this part
02:15 AM miss0r: also, it is just wonderfully quite compared to the big'ol iron horse in the back
02:56 AM Deejay: moin
03:44 AM gloops: right a cup of tea, then time for a bit of work
03:46 AM miss0r: what work gloops? work for money or work for fun? (are you going to be working on your router, is what I am getting at?)
03:47 AM gloops: finish wiring on the router, im not so busy today or tommorrow
03:47 AM miss0r: nice
03:48 AM miss0r: Sweet! mailman was just here with the 16mm brass rods and a 32mm tpfe rod I ordered yesterday :) Time to get this party started
03:48 AM gloops: ive grown to hate this machine haha, which is not good, ill learn to love it again when its finished
03:48 AM miss0r: lets hope so :D
03:49 AM gloops: ive broke its neck about 6 times and it just keeps getting up and saying 'not done yet!'
03:50 AM miss0r: then you did not do a proper job of killing it the first 6 times
03:50 AM gloops: true yes
03:50 AM miss0r: I hate doing 3D contours on a 3axis mill. It takes FOREVER !
03:51 AM gloops: as opposed to 4 or 5 axis?
03:51 AM gloops: or just slow in general
03:51 AM miss0r: as opposed to 5 axis
03:52 AM gloops: hmm, so speed is another advantage of 5 axis? how is that? if 10 cubic cm has to be removed, and you can only cut at same depth and feed, same time surely?
03:53 AM gloops: or more close weave paths
03:53 AM miss0r: true, if you just want to shave down a block. but when you need 3D contoured surfaces, you need a ridiculous small stepover on a 3axis, whereas a 5axis can turn the part to allow for larger surface contact between the cutter and the surface
03:54 AM miss0r: this part: 25x15x7mm 5 hours run time
03:55 AM gloops: fff thats a long time for a part that size
03:55 AM fragalot: hi
03:55 AM miss0r: wb fragalot
04:08 AM miss0r: I do not find tfpe to be a plesant material to turn, I never have ;]
04:11 AM gloops: a 4 arm 'pod' would give 3 cartesian axis plus rotary in 2 planes
04:11 AM fragalot: miss0r: very, very sharp HSS, and interrupted roughing cuts to break up the large chips is the only thing i've found to make it workable
04:11 AM gloops: im not sure why 6 arms seems more popular, probably just for youtube cred points
04:15 AM miss0r: yeah. I'm using inserts made for plastics. and I'm aiming the cutoff flow at a bucket on the floor, it works well, until it gets caught up in the chuck... then it winds the intiere concent of the bucket into a knot
04:15 AM fragalot: xD
04:16 AM fragalot: hence the interrupted cuts
04:17 AM miss0r: ;)
04:18 AM malcom2073_: gloops: iirc a 4 arm pod has a singularity point, 6 does not
04:18 AM gloops: elaborate malcolm?
04:19 AM malcom2073_: gloops: There is a point in a 4 arm pod where you need another force to determine direction. By 6 you mean stewart platform yeah?
04:19 AM gloops: im not familiar with the terms for these designs really, but i kind of see what you mean
04:20 AM malcom2073_: 4 arms just doesn't work unfortunatly
04:20 AM gloops: like a wheel with a drive shaft, theres just that point where momentum wont quite carry it past the sticking point
04:20 AM malcom2073_: 3 arms works for 3 degrees of freedom
04:20 AM malcom2073_: Yeah
04:22 AM gloops: a hexapod is nightmare of complex kinematics, but it would be something to do
04:22 AM gloops: anyway bbiab
04:22 AM malcom2073_: It would be cool
05:25 AM jthornton: morning
05:26 AM Tom_L: morning
05:31 AM TurBoss: morning
05:33 AM XXCoder: morning
05:50 AM gloops: putin has until midnight to explain himself to theresa may, otherwise swift and terrible retaliation will follow
05:50 AM XXCoder: whats that shirtless guy do now?>
05:51 AM gloops: very little i imagine
05:52 AM gloops: seeing as he has his hand on the gas tap to half of europe
05:52 AM XXCoder: why need explaim to umm PM of British if I recall right>? or UK? forgot
05:53 AM gloops: military nerve agent used to assasinate former double agent in the UK - russian nerve agent
05:53 AM XXCoder: oh yeah I recall something to that effect
05:55 AM XXCoder: I just got catalog from mpia.com. interesting and pretty dang cheap electics stuff
05:57 AM XXCoder: catalof steppers is all pretty cheap but 6 lead. bit confusing. dont steppers tend to use 4?
05:58 AM gloops: does look pretty cheap
05:58 AM gloops: 4,6 and 8
05:58 AM gloops: you can run them all on 4 so far as i know
05:58 AM XXCoder: my tb6600s only has 4
05:58 AM XXCoder: I wonder what additional benefit that is
05:59 AM gloops: cant remember now, i did look into it last year
06:01 AM XXCoder: ok
06:01 AM gloops: the electronics side of this is something i just manage to get working somehow, without really understanding why lol
06:01 AM XXCoder: bah lo
06:03 AM gloops: if a 4 wire stepper has 2 coils, an 8 wire one must have 4 coils
06:04 AM gloops: you do get 4 pairs with 8 wires, and you also get 2 sets of pairs
06:04 AM XXCoder: man this old tony got tons of stupid jo0kes
06:04 AM XXCoder: like "microwaving" bearings into bolts
06:05 AM XXCoder: like popping popcorn
06:11 AM gloops: back to it
06:23 AM Deejay: re
06:31 AM IchGucksLive: hi
06:31 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: always 2pairs parallel give you a great stepper
06:32 AM IchGucksLive: but on olfd Hbriges you can do a +in and only 4out
06:32 AM IchGucksLive: bives a alvays blocked stepepr
06:32 AM IchGucksLive: very hard movement
06:33 AM IchGucksLive: https://www.ebay.de/itm/DE-Ship-Nema-24-Stepper-Motor-4Nm-3A-8-wire-8mm-Dual-Shaft-CNC-Mill-Lathe-Laser/331631704844
06:41 AM XXCoder: record breaking heat here today.
06:41 AM XXCoder: 70f.
06:42 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: did DT firerd the oven
06:43 AM XXCoder: huh?
07:15 AM gloops: wow, they are actually discussing a potential cyber attack on russia herelol
07:18 AM BeachBumPete: Hey Captainhindsight ya home?
08:22 AM Todd_Z: Anyone in the USA know of a place that will buy old Spindle cores? I have two 12kw Omlat Delta HSK spindles that are dead, that I need to get rid of.
08:46 AM gloops: a new tech company is founded in the UK every hour, mind boggling
08:54 AM Loetmichel: Todd_Z: what means "dead"?
08:54 AM Loetmichel: cant you bring it to a motor rewinder and revive them?
08:54 AM Loetmichel: and then sell them as "refurbished, new bearings, working perfect"?
09:21 AM CaptHindsight: BeachBumPete: sort of
09:21 AM BeachBumPete: LOL
09:23 AM CaptHindsight: cleaning out the inbox with all the malware laced "invoices"
09:23 AM CaptHindsight: some kiddie must be busy
09:45 AM CaptHindsight: anyone know a plexiglass vendor in the US that can bend full sheets into a 2 foot (~60cm) radius?
09:45 AM BeachBumPete: hey man I showed that Maoi printer to him and he was looking for something more in the 4-5k range with a bit larger envelope and a bit less kickstartery feel to it if that makes any sense. LOL
09:46 AM CaptHindsight: BeachBumPete: yeah, there isn't anything
09:46 AM BeachBumPete: They just had a rep show us a really cool 3D scanner this morning. It looks like we are buying it here.
09:46 AM BeachBumPete: so this thing generated a photo quality point cloud
09:46 AM CaptHindsight: there's either small and low cost that uses the cheapest Chinese parts
09:46 AM BeachBumPete: I am gonna need to get up to speed on how to use these in CAD CAM and QUICK
09:46 AM CaptHindsight: or flashy and small like Formlabs
09:47 AM CaptHindsight: anything large is $50k and up off the shelf
09:47 AM BeachBumPete: what would it take cost wise to get to the next step up in size and quality in your opinion
09:48 AM BeachBumPete: we have been investigating them here ourselves but we dont know that much about them.
09:48 AM CaptHindsight: most are happy with a DLP projector or LCD panel so the print areas are smaller
09:49 AM BeachBumPete: you mean to scan with?
09:50 AM CaptHindsight: as the light source for curing, or are you asking about a larger scanner?
09:51 AM BeachBumPete: no sorry I misunderstood
09:52 AM BeachBumPete: we saw some commercial setups that have seperate curing systems like that but these smaller units would use something like that
09:53 AM BeachBumPete: how does the LCD panel work?
09:53 AM CaptHindsight: those are post cure untis, a light box/oven
09:53 AM BeachBumPete: ah ok
09:53 AM CaptHindsight: the resin is cured to just rigid in the printer and then fully cured in the post cure unit
09:54 AM BeachBumPete: again I know NOTHING about this process man
09:55 AM BeachBumPete: we will both be learning to use it as we go here he just has interest in it and sees some possibilities for helping sell certain detailed aspects in miniature apparently
09:55 AM CaptHindsight: LCD SLA 3D Printer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBYeK8bk64A
09:55 AM CaptHindsight: 17" LCD Liquid Crystal 3D printer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRxkcX8kPAc
09:57 AM Todd_Z: Loetmichel: (I was away from my computer, "dead" spindle means the bearings are bad in these high speed HSK 63F spindles.
09:58 AM BeachBumPete: SO does the laser come in from the bottom?
09:58 AM BeachBumPete: and the light source that he put on there with the multi LED's aids curing?
09:59 AM CaptHindsight: BeachBumPete: if it uses a laser, the LCD versions just use the LCD and its backlight
09:59 AM BeachBumPete: aah ok I was not aware that would be enough light. So these units would presumably be able to make larger prints then?
10:00 AM BeachBumPete: the LCD is actually a mask for the light source
10:00 AM CaptHindsight: the size is limited by the adhesion of the part to the film over the LCD where the resin is
10:01 AM CaptHindsight: resolution is the dot size and spacing of the pixels in the LCD
10:01 AM BeachBumPete: are they less precise than the laser models?
10:02 AM CaptHindsight: depends on dot pitch of the panel vs the laser spot size
10:03 AM CaptHindsight: as LCD panels get larger the dot size increases unless the resolution increases (more dots)
10:04 AM BeachBumPete: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKHE1qdzbDU
10:04 AM CaptHindsight: so an iphone LCD might be ~500cpi and a 55" LCD far far less
10:04 AM CaptHindsight: cpi/dpi
10:06 AM BeachBumPete: sue
10:06 AM BeachBumPete: sure
10:09 AM BeachBumPete: so the idea of getting into an SLA for that price with larger capacity is a nogo
10:11 AM CaptHindsight: BeachBumPete: if you take a HD projector 1920 x 1080 and have a 10" print width...
10:12 AM CaptHindsight: the the res will be ~192dpi
10:12 AM CaptHindsight: 192 x 108 dpi
10:13 AM BeachBumPete: what do you think of this fusion3 model? https://www.fusion3design.com/lp-large-3d-printer/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw7Z3VBRC-ARIsAEQifZSeNJh16bBhO6tBn9H5KM7rfzM38uXM1f6UkN4cEp8cB4Hu7sjrlSgaAl44EALw_wcB
10:13 AM BeachBumPete: its not an SLA printer but it does have the capacity and apparently the speed.
10:14 AM CaptHindsight: oh there are all sorts of large CNC glue guns
10:14 AM BeachBumPete: are they not worth getting into?
10:14 AM SpeedEvil: And concrete guns!
10:14 AM CaptHindsight: I have no comment on them :)
10:14 AM BeachBumPete: hehe why?
10:15 AM SpeedEvil: CaptHindsight doesn't believe in melting.
10:15 AM CaptHindsight: cnc glue guns have their purpose, it just not the pupose that most people market them for
10:16 AM CaptHindsight: it's great to deposit low res thermoplastics slowly
10:16 AM BeachBumPete: are they that slow?
10:16 AM BeachBumPete: is SLA much faster?
10:17 AM CaptHindsight: easily 10-100x
10:17 AM CaptHindsight: but with limited print area unless you use multiple lasers or projectors
10:18 AM BeachBumPete: ok
10:18 AM CaptHindsight: there is one SLA that uses DLP projectors and steps the projection over the print bed
10:18 AM CaptHindsight: so you get high res and large area but they are <$50-100K ea
10:19 AM CaptHindsight: sorry >$50k
10:19 AM CaptHindsight: you could use a large vat and have an LCD panel scan over the area
10:20 AM CaptHindsight: you just need to move the panel at greater precision than the dot pitch
10:21 AM CaptHindsight: 3dsystems uses a sing;e laser and galvo to scan over large areas
10:22 AM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: I'm using FDM to print thermoplastics right onto protective and sportswear
10:23 AM CaptHindsight: support structures for bras and similar
10:26 AM CaptHindsight: BeachBumPete: there are all sorts of patents that crossover each other, that is what limits lots of possible printer designs
10:26 AM CaptHindsight: and cost
10:27 AM BeachBumPete: jeez
10:29 AM CaptHindsight: and I can't imagine what DIY would look like trying to step a projector or LCD panel at <.002" accuracy over a couple feet
10:30 AM SpeedEvil: CaptHindsight: neat
10:30 AM SpeedEvil: I do wish stupid patents diddn't exist.
10:31 AM SpeedEvil: (stupid patents = something someone faced with the same problem would not invent in less time than it took to do an exhaustive patent search to see if the problem had been solved * 100)
10:31 AM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHHN5a7o9x4
10:32 AM CaptHindsight: not FDM but similar
10:32 AM SpeedEvil: yeah - saw that sort of thing.
10:41 AM CaptHindsight: no reason why the reprap crowd could not have done something with better materials vs being so stuck on PLA
10:47 AM SpeedEvil: Person #1 - this sort of works.
10:48 AM SpeedEvil: Person #2 - I made it 3% better
10:48 AM SpeedEvil: ... Person #1000 - this sort of works.
10:48 AM SpeedEvil: Can be real tempting just to assume what sort of works can be gotten perfect
10:48 AM gregcnc_: all for 199USD
10:49 AM CaptHindsight: I'll make it better after I get done having a snack with mom upstairs
10:50 AM CaptHindsight: they also go too stuck on printing itself
10:50 AM CaptHindsight: who ever did that? well maybe the joints
11:01 AM gloops: well thats a bit more progress, apart from having to shave a spar on the wood panelling to let the cable hanger past, no problems
11:59 AM Rab: Use found for bolt extractor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gKJeWzeKlM
12:06 PM gloops: ive got a tin full of those
12:06 PM gloops: lock picking is an interesting thing
12:09 PM gloops: something fairly unusual is happening in this room ...where i am sitting
12:10 PM gloops: got an old rococo mirror opposite me, caught my attention that something is moving in the reflection - looked opposite the mirror, nothing is moving, theres a half open door and a wall
12:11 PM Tom_L: you got spooks
12:11 PM gloops: the MIRROR is gently swaying from side to side! no windows open no drafts i can feel
12:11 PM Deejay: sounds spooky
12:11 PM gloops: never done that before lol
12:11 PM Deejay: that is a sign!
12:11 PM gloops: im just going to it lol
12:12 PM Deejay: do not step into the mirror, you might get lost ;)
12:12 PM Deejay: or find yourself in another dimension or so ;)
12:13 PM gloops: strangest shit i ever saw, there is a radiator underneath it, must be that
12:15 PM BeachBumPete: Damn that 3D scanner was freaking cool...
12:15 PM BeachBumPete: I might have to ACCIDENTALLY use it for some other stuff :)
12:19 PM Tom_L: they've got a bunch of those out at the vo-tech here
12:19 PM Tom_L: all different types
12:19 PM BeachBumPete: this one was like a tiny R2D2 on a tripod
12:19 PM Tom_L: from precision small ones to full room scan
12:19 PM BeachBumPete: this does both sorta
12:20 PM BeachBumPete: he scanned the room we are building for our CAD CAM stuff and I was fairly impressed with the resolution on what was aparently even a medium density scan.
12:20 PM BeachBumPete: He showed us how he could scan a small part from four quadrants and result in a fairly dense point cloud
12:21 PM Tom_L: they've got one they set on a composite part like a wing that needs patched and make a very precision patch to fit in
12:21 PM BeachBumPete: now if I can just figure out how to use that data in my CAD setup
12:21 PM BeachBumPete: really cool stuff
12:21 PM BeachBumPete: I thought the software which was made by autodesk incidentally was equally as cool.
12:22 PM Tom_L: http://constructible.trimble.com/construction-industry/how-to-create-a-3d-cad-model-from-a-laser-scanned-point-cloud-overview
12:22 PM BeachBumPete: you can slice up the scan into whatever you need, view it from any angle,add notes, add construction items, etc. etc.
12:22 PM IchGucksLive: hi
12:22 PM sync: BeachBumPete: for parts the tof laser scanners are not the right choice
12:23 PM sync: laser line/structured light is commonly used for that
12:23 PM Tom_L: they scan parts for companies out at the vo-tech too
12:23 PM BeachBumPete: he showed us how you can take a horiz vert laser and activate it during the scan to be used for vert horiz refernce when you edit the matrix
12:24 PM BeachBumPete: I understand that for small parts the one we are getting is probably not ideal but he told us how many of his customers use it for that.
12:24 PM Tom_L: http://www.solidworks.com/sw/products/3d-cad/scanto3d.htm
12:24 PM BeachBumPete: just adjust the density of the scan and scan from multiple directions and you get a pretty solid point cloud
12:25 PM Tom_L: they've all probably got similar solutions
12:25 PM BeachBumPete: wondering if Fusion360 can work with these scans they are the ones who made the damn software after all ;)
12:25 PM Tom_L: https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-design-validate/importing-point-cloud-in-single-plane-from-a-comma-delimited/td-p/5610941
12:26 PM fragalot: hi
12:26 PM Tom_L: that looks like 2d
12:27 PM Tom_L: maybe
12:27 PM IchGucksLive: pointcloud is best via mashlab to go for a stl
12:27 PM IchGucksLive: or obj
12:27 PM IchGucksLive: and from there via freecad or blender to a real 3D
12:28 PM BeachBumPete: for most of our purposes we will scan an entire room, generate the cloud, slice up the cloud into wall views, then using construction geometry in CAD be able to accurately draw our cabinets installations and trim in that area to be sure things fit etc.
12:31 PM Tom_L: i don't know what they use at the school
12:31 PM gregcnc_: oh man I couldn't handle that, how do you deal with crooked walls and floors in cad?
12:31 PM Tom_L: but i was impressed for sure
12:31 PM BeachBumPete: https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-forum/creating-a-solid-model-from-a-point-cloud/td-p/6754173
12:33 PM Tom_L: gregcnc_ do you live in a square world?
12:33 PM gregcnc_: in CAD I do
12:33 PM Tom_L: :)
12:33 PM IchGucksLive: sqare is out Design is in
12:34 PM IchGucksLive: even a qube needs to be shaped
12:34 PM gregcnc_: I suppose if the scan had some level plane to refernce I could handle that
12:34 PM gregcnc_: yes Ichs
12:34 PM IchGucksLive: look on the ready made mashines are rounded at most corners
12:34 PM fragalot: that said, machines have much more "square" space on it than they used to
12:35 PM fragalot: if you look at old machines, everything was curved, rounded, or otherwise completely unusable flat space
12:35 PM IchGucksLive: i bet a cool design woudt sell
12:35 PM IchGucksLive: the Z piles with design structurer
12:35 PM IchGucksLive: in 3D metal print
12:36 PM IchGucksLive: like a brige pile wirer
12:36 PM IchGucksLive: twisted woudt look real impressive
12:37 PM IchGucksLive: we shoudt start on twisted fence material its cheep
12:37 PM IchGucksLive: as diagonal stiffness
12:38 PM IchGucksLive: like a old metall structurer
12:42 PM IchGucksLive: im off
12:42 PM gloops: the UK airliner industry failed because of square windows in the planes
12:43 PM gloops: corners couldnt take the pressure, too many downed aircraft, that was that
01:09 PM CaptHindsight: cheap is in in any shape unless it's a status symbol, then it's just whatever is "different" that year
01:14 PM CaptHindsight: https://shop.re3d.org/collections/gigabot-3d/products/gigabot
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: Z Precision 2.5 microns, XY Precision 4 microns
01:15 PM gregcnc_: pro tip: if you think clamping pressure is going to be an issue, don't forget to actually check it before scrapping all your prototype parts.
01:16 PM gregcnc_: what the allowable tolerance on the shop floor for that thing?
01:16 PM BeachBumPete: apparently the software that comes with the scanner is caller Racap made by autodesk creates a mesh from the point cloud and that is insertable into Fusion360 for CAD CAM use.
01:17 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc_: <1ft boulders, preferable
01:17 PM BeachBumPete: I'd just like to thank you guys
01:18 PM BeachBumPete: you have helped me learn so much here I would have had a lot more tough time doing this work if it were not for all of you. Much respect
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: https://3dprinting.com/3dprinters/best-large-scale-fdm-fff-3d-printers-big-enough-to-3d-print-furniture/ the last few featured here seem to be going after the too much money and too little brains market
01:22 PM gregcnc_: there's one you can live in
01:24 PM CaptHindsight: Resolution: 2560 * 1440537 PPI https://www.ebay.com/itm/LCD-light-curing-3D-printer-High-precision-Photocurable-SLA-3D-printer-/201726686315
01:24 PM CaptHindsight: that's sub atomic resolution
01:25 PM CaptHindsight: well almost ~3nm
01:33 PM CaptHindsight: BeachBumPete: used 10 x 10 x 10 SLA printer $110k
01:34 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.ezsystems.com/p/3D-Systems-Projet-6000-HD-SLA-3D-Printer/ez6614/2896?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqui3z_fp2QIVkLXACh2nygDNEAYYASABEgIA6vD_BwE
01:34 PM CaptHindsight: https://cncmachines.net/1754/sla-projet-6000hd/
01:48 PM CaptHindsight: who makes cooling fans that can change direction (polarity swap)?
01:49 PM fragalot: never heard of those
01:52 PM jelly is now known as MooServ`
01:53 PM MooServ` is now known as jelly
01:59 PM roycroft: all you need is a motor to rotate the fan 180 degrees :)
02:00 PM fragalot: roycroft: don't be ridiculous
02:01 PM fragalot: you need a variable pitch fan
02:01 PM pcw_mesa: or an ancient WWII 28VDC brushed DC fan
02:01 PM roycroft: you could piggy back two fans, each blowing in opposite directions
02:01 PM roycroft: and engage one at a time
02:01 PM roycroft: but i think it would be more fun to rotate the fan
02:01 PM roycroft: embed it in a big ball valve
02:01 PM Wolf__: RC brushless EDF unit with a reversible ESC
02:03 PM CaptHindsight: I could build them but after reading the rest of spec it's not required
02:04 PM fragalot: get an EDF :D
02:04 PM gregcnc_: yeah, fans work just fine spinning the same way in the southern hemisphere, unlike huricanes
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: do toilets spin at the equator?
02:06 PM gregcnc_: I think it's a crapshoot, one flush may go one way or the other
02:07 PM fragalot: asking the important questions
02:11 PM gloops: i see they found some non-human mummies in south america
02:11 PM fragalot: aren't mummies human by definition?
02:12 PM gloops: not necessarily no
02:12 PM gloops: you can have a mummified cat
02:12 PM fragalot: still not a mummy
02:12 PM roycroft: actually, it's a crapshoot as one moves away from the equator as well
02:13 PM roycroft: the whole clockwise/anti-clockwise toilet spinning thing is urban legend at best
02:13 PM fragalot: roycroft: perhaps it's more of a design aspect of the toilet and/or sink
02:14 PM fragalot: australian toilets make the water preferentially enter from the left, whilst northern countries prefer the right
02:14 PM fragalot: :P
02:14 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: yeah but good urban legend
02:15 PM CaptHindsight: sink drains are another story
02:15 PM roycroft: unless you're the guy who has to stick his head down a bunch of toilets to document it
02:15 PM gregcnc_: as long as it's a .gov wages an benefits
02:16 PM fragalot: roycroft: i'm no expert
02:16 PM fragalot: but I don't think putting your head in the bowl is required
02:17 PM CaptHindsight: they have divers for that
02:17 PM XXCoder: roy yeah its urban legand AND true. id you have BIG and smooth bowl, almost full, and its been sitting for while before you open hole
02:18 PM gloops: https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/820205/Three-fingered-alien-mummy-Nazca-Desert-Peru-UFO-Gaia-com
02:18 PM gloops: dna tests show the creature has human chromosomes, but anatomically, not human
02:18 PM gregcnc_: https://youtu.be/BiBrV4Q9NYE
02:18 PM gloops: hinting at alien creators
02:19 PM XXCoder: THEN it will depend on where you are at earth. otherwise tiny factors can affect how it swirls when draining.
02:21 PM fragalot: gloops: that article is difficult to read
02:22 PM gloops: yes i dont like these segmented news articles
02:22 PM fragalot: that article is also a year old, and as it never went anywhere past this one, a hoax it is.
02:22 PM gregcnc_: a good hint that it's an advert or click bait
02:23 PM CaptHindsight: found mummies under recent bridge purchase
02:23 PM fragalot: that whole express.co.uk site is full of shitty hoaxy clickbait
02:25 PM XXCoder: heh noscript its just one page. utterly uninteresting article
02:25 PM miss0r: fragalot: I got the belt assembly with all the rollers and axles complete today. I'm working on the piece connecting the belt to the linear slides now :]
02:25 PM fragalot: :D
02:25 PM XXCoder: no wonder they split it into 500 pages
02:25 PM fragalot: I got some aggregate today to start testing when the epoxy arrives
02:26 PM miss0r: nice
02:26 PM fragalot: went with a mix of 0/4 sand, 4/7 of unknown pebbles, 7/14 basalt
02:26 PM fragalot: other than those pebbles I couldn't find anything with the right size
02:27 PM miss0r: Its hard work washing down and drying all that material
02:27 PM fragalot: yup
02:27 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: nah sink drains rotate with whatever remaining sum of water movements in sink. I have seen all directions ccw and cw drains. I should know.
02:27 PM fragalot: current plan is a large bucket that continuously overflows & drill powered cement mixer
02:27 PM fragalot: not sure if that's going to work out
02:28 PM fragalot: https://www.gamma.be/nl/assortiment/kift-4-7-mm-25-kg/p/B251822 <= the random 4/7 rock.. no idea what "kift" is
02:28 PM gloops: no granite? its only road chippings
02:28 PM fragalot: gloops: basalt is denser & harder than granite
02:28 PM gloops: i see
02:28 PM fragalot: and to be honest, I don't think that with the mass i'm making, that the actual rock itself will be that critical
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: kift sounds made up
02:29 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: yup
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: A word used exclusively in Pembrokeshire, Wales. Refers to a thing/object which is rubbish, broken, or useless.
02:29 PM fragalot: description I can find says "type: hard rock" which is incredibly helpful
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: are there any soft rocks
02:30 PM fragalot: pummice
02:30 PM XXCoder: yes
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: i thought if it's a rock it's hard
02:30 PM fragalot: apparently kift is also known as river gravel
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: flaky
02:31 PM XXCoder: I had crushed rock with my hand. lol (not kidding, some kinds is quite soft like frag said...)
02:31 PM fragalot: "typical uses: concrete, or pathway gravel"
02:31 PM gloops: thats just the scree at the bottom of the quarry, small stuff
02:31 PM fragalot: i'm sure it will work fine
02:31 PM gloops: pebbles usually make strong concrete
02:31 PM Alkabal: Hi all, is someone know if this is possible to reset iocontrol.0.tool-number to 0
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.bouwdepot.be/7235-large_default/kift-2-8-zak-40kg.jpg
02:32 PM fragalot: yup
02:32 PM XXCoder: fragalot: who was that yep to?
02:32 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight:
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: https://eviewer.netmedia-europe.be/cache/server?type=image&origin=pb&source=%2Fpromobutler_be%2Farticles%2F2014%2F05%2F08%2F20630%2F0cevo106n0000070.jpg&storage=2014
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: yup=yep
02:33 PM fragalot: yip
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: thank you google translate
02:34 PM XXCoder: guys Alkabal got a question
02:34 PM gloops: Alkabal sorry i dont, someone probably will know
02:34 PM fragalot: and i'd gladly answer if I knew the answer :P
02:34 PM CaptHindsight: is it possible to reset iocontrol.0.tool-number to 0?
02:34 PM XXCoder: sadly im not one who knows
02:34 PM Alkabal: thanks at all, no need to stop your discution for me !
02:35 PM Alkabal: this is too much
02:35 PM Alkabal: thanks all for reply
02:35 PM XXCoder: Alkabal: this IS linuxcnc chat, we chat about lots things but theorically lcnc is why we are here lol
02:35 PM Alkabal: off course lol but i don't want to interupt
02:36 PM gloops: can we put this problem in context Alkabal? what are you trying to do?
02:36 PM Alkabal: i try to write my own toolchanger.comp but i have some difficulty for come back to normal after error detection
02:37 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: to be honest, I think that "kift" stuff is just the precursor to river sand. :P
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: I have some here in bag
02:37 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight which way do they spin at the N pole?
02:38 PM XXCoder: CW
02:38 PM Tom_L: no
02:38 PM gregcnc_: frozen solid
02:38 PM Tom_L: :)
02:38 PM Tom_L: somebody's on the ball
02:39 PM gloops: Alkabal there are some here who can probably advise you, but not here atm, might be worth posting the question on the forum as well, some of the more serious linuxcncrs prefer that medium
02:39 PM XXCoder: lol well was assuming it'd be while it was liquid :P but same time if it sat for nesscary time it would freeze
02:39 PM Alkabal: ok thanks gloops
02:40 PM fragalot: gloops: are you implying we're not serious here?
02:40 PM gregcnc_: uh oh
02:40 PM gloops: i have tried to raise the standard in here fragalot but even i gave up
02:40 PM XXCoder: we are very serious on being not serious.
02:40 PM Tom_L: Alkabal have you looked at the one andy wrote?
02:40 PM Tom_L: carousel
02:41 PM Alkabal: yes but i go to check again ^^
02:41 PM Todd_Z: The mailing lists might also be a good place to ask. Saw some recent discussion there with that and a possible bug with randome tool changers.
02:41 PM Tom_L: gloops you implying we don't have standards?
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: https://imagebin.ca/v/3ulbvLmBMrvN the sizes I use
02:42 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: nothing finer?
02:42 PM Alkabal: orac toolchanger have some bug also i think
02:42 PM XXCoder: we have stabdards of not havding standards ;)
02:42 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: so that's 4/7, and.. 8/14? 16?
02:43 PM Alkabal: unfortunly i haven't found any code source with error detection
02:43 PM gloops: Tom_L to be fair there is a high standard of political debate in here and some rivetting chicken talk
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: and sand https://i0.wp.com/nobackhome.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/7-unnamed-7.jpg
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: or similar
02:44 PM XXCoder: would need to clean all those to work better in epoxy grinite if I recall right
02:44 PM CaptHindsight: political chicken talk, right vs left wing :)
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: I get them prewashed
02:45 PM XXCoder: right left wing and literal wings
02:45 PM gloops: the age old strong concrete mix is 3/2/1 3 coarse, 2 grit, 1 cement
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: only ~10% resin
02:46 PM fragalot: XXCoder: I will indeed have to clean & dry all of this stuff, but as it will take another week at least before the epoxy is here, I have oodles of time
02:46 PM gloops: a cement mixer would also be useful for washing, set hose pipe up trickling in, fill with pebbles, set mixer running
02:46 PM XXCoder: cool
02:47 PM XXCoder: I do want to try concerete and epoxy grinite but probably not for while lol
02:47 PM gloops: a lot of lapidiary is done in cement mixers
02:47 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: what ratios of aggretate do you use?
02:47 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: I was thinking on making a concerete table for outside usage, whats your suggestion on casting it
02:47 PM fragalot: gloops: i have a similar plan involving buckets & a low speed drill powered cement mixer on a stick type thing
02:47 PM XXCoder: and whats best seperator
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.adambender.info/single-post/2017/03/25/Epoxy-Granite-Machine-Frame-How-To
02:48 PM gloops: well going by the cement rations, a strong mix is 3-2 coarse to smaller aggregates
02:48 PM gloops: ratios
02:49 PM gloops: weaker mixes increase the quantity of coarse, like 6,3,1
02:49 PM fragalot: ooh I like that design
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: just plywood forms
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: with plastic sheet or film to keep the grain out
02:51 PM XXCoder: nice. thanks
02:52 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: the most important is making sure you don't end up with voids
02:52 PM CaptHindsight: unless that is the look you are going for
02:53 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: very interesting article, especially interesting though that plain sand gave less voids
02:53 PM fragalot: i'm also curious if the issues people have with vacuum pumps causing a fluffy mix, is that they forget to release the vacuum after a few minutes
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: small voids are not necessarily bad
02:57 PM fragalot: https://kenswu.zzvps.com/Function/photo/CNC5064-2.jpg <- these descriptions are hilarious
03:05 PM fragalot: starting to get really excited about this :-)
03:08 PM fragalot: Tom_L: main issue with fusion360 is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to use with a trackpad
03:08 PM fragalot: well, not "impossible", but awful.
03:08 PM Tom_L: heh
03:09 PM Tom_L: what's your z travel gonna be?
03:10 PM fragalot: 204mm
03:11 PM Tom_L: main purpose for the machine?
03:15 PM fragalot: small steel parts
03:18 PM Tom_L: nice details on that site
03:21 PM roycroft: i wasn't aware of that, fragalot
03:21 PM roycroft: another reason for me to avoid fusin360
03:21 PM fragalot: I really don't like fusion360's 2D drawing
03:21 PM fragalot: https://imgur.com/a/QQJiJ
03:21 PM fragalot: ^ that just hurts me to look at
03:22 PM fragalot: but it's the best I can do
03:22 PM roycroft: whenever i need to do a 2d drawing i just use autocad
03:22 PM fragalot: ignore the 2 diameter markings, those were just tests
03:22 PM fragalot: roycroft: i'd use Inventor if I had it still
03:22 PM Tom_L: you should see the one i did for the X axis plate on mine
03:23 PM Tom_L: i wasn't goin for pretty
03:24 PM fragalot: so you spend hours entering all of the hole details in the 3D model in their little wizard things
03:24 PM fragalot: and then when it comes to the 2D drawing.. it just.. forgets.
03:24 PM fragalot: unlike inventor or other professional packages where you plop on the dimension & it auto-fills all the details
03:24 PM Tom_L: i did mine in catia but i've never used the drafting part of it until then
03:27 PM gloops: some positive news for once, uk govmt announces new 'northern forest' 50 million new trees to be planted
03:27 PM gloops: thats a good thing
03:27 PM fragalot: indeed
03:28 PM JT-Shop: what would cause a 480v-120v control transformer to fry with no output connected to it?
03:28 PM fragalot: JT-Shop: wired backwards?
03:28 PM fragalot: JT-Shop: or it's a 380v rather than 480?
03:29 PM Tom_L: is the 480 3 phase?
03:29 PM fragalot: is it the input or the output that fried, or can't you tell?
03:30 PM roycroft: a rogue squirrel?
03:30 PM roycroft: are any of your chickens missing?
03:31 PM roycroft: gloops: that sounds like a "soft customs border"
03:31 PM Tom_L: henry might be...
03:31 PM fragalot: roycroft: hahaha
03:31 PM Tom_L: yeah, they want a wall but don't wanna admit it :D
03:33 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Shop: shorted windings
03:33 PM gloops: its in the north, theyre using all the corridors the motorways run along
03:34 PM roycroft: yeah, hadrian's forest
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Shop: might have been bad from the factory, poor insulation in just one spot
03:34 PM roycroft: keep those pesky europicts out!
03:35 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L: yes it's 3 phase
03:35 PM Tom_L: would it matter if it was wired delta or wye?
03:35 PM JT-Shop: both were 480v primary
03:35 PM Tom_L: i don't know that much about 3 phase
03:36 PM JT-Shop: dunno phase to phase is 500v and phase to ground is 295v... kinda high
03:37 PM JT-Shop: I burned up two transformers the instant I put power to them and they were both fused on the primary
03:38 PM CaptHindsight: wires marked wrong?
03:38 PM Tom_L: can't help much with this one
03:38 PM Tom_L: http://waterheatertimer.org/How-to-wire-3-phase-electric.html
03:38 PM JT-Shop: primary side is open
03:38 PM Tom_L: well something is shorted for sure
03:39 PM fragalot: JT-Shop: that does not sound right...
03:39 PM fragalot: got a part number?
03:39 PM JT-Shop: ph100mli
03:40 PM JT-Shop: hammond power solutions
03:40 PM CaptHindsight: first guess would be incorrect connections if the input has multiple taps
03:41 PM JT-Shop: I doubt I would make the same mistake with two different brands of transformers
03:41 PM Tom_L: http://www.hammondpowersolutions.com/files/HPS_Catalog_Control_GenPurpose_Section1.pdf
03:42 PM CaptHindsight: https://cdn.automationdirect.com/static/manuals/hpsimperator/wiring.pdf
03:42 PM JT-Shop: yea that is where I got it from
03:43 PM fragalot: hang on
03:43 PM CaptHindsight: ing these wiring diagrams or are having any diffic technical support in the U.S. at 1-866-705-4684
03:44 PM CaptHindsight: do they make it too easy to get the pin numbers confused?
03:44 PM fragalot: https://cdn.automationdirect.com/static/specs/hpsxformers480240mli.pdf <- the datasheet for that specific part looks clear enough
03:44 PM JT-Shop: I contacted automation direct and their response was I wired it wrong lol
03:44 PM fragalot: fused 480V goes to pins 4 & 6
03:45 PM JT-Shop: I have the fuse kit for it
03:45 PM fragalot: other than sayingyou wired it wrong
03:45 PM fragalot: how did you wire it? :P
03:46 PM JT-Shop: 480 460 440 3-8 6, 4 1-5, 4-8
03:46 PM JT-Shop: 4th line down on page 2
03:46 PM fragalot: alright
03:47 PM fragalot: have you tried a 500V transformer?
03:47 PM JT-Shop: I put a second used but good one in and it fried as well with fuse protection
03:47 PM JT-Shop: I've not seen any rated at 500v
03:47 PM CaptHindsight: page 3 of 9 https://cdn.automationdirect.com/static/manuals/hpsimperator/wiring.pdf
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: jumper 3-8
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: supply 6 and 4
03:48 PM JT-Shop: yea I got that right
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: fuse clips to 1-5, 4-8
03:48 PM JT-Shop: page 3 is not for 100va transformer
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: it is on my pdf
03:49 PM fragalot: eaton's datasheet for their control transformers is amazing
03:49 PM fragalot: input voltage: 12-950
03:49 PM fragalot: useful.
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: PH***MLI Schematic for 50, 75 and 100VA Units
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: Page 3 of 9
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: they still might be in , call
03:51 PM JT-Shop: page 3 is PH***PG Schematic for 150VA to 500VA Units
03:51 PM Tom_L: jt, bottom of the page
03:51 PM fragalot: JT-Shop: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/din-rail-panel-mount-transformers/4197423/ 500Vac input, 115V out
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Shop: use my pdf link https://cdn.automationdirect.com/static/manuals/hpsimperator/wiring.pdf
03:51 PM JT-Shop: ah
03:52 PM Tom_L: but that's what you did
03:52 PM JT-Shop: CaptHindsight: it's the same as the other pdf link
03:52 PM fragalot: we use the block ones at work quite often.. makes it easy, single part number works for most voltages
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: call em
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: they should not use the same wire numbers for primary and secondary
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: might be obvious to some, but not all
03:55 PM JT-Shop: yea the same wire numbers are not a good thing
03:55 PM JT-Shop: good thing the transformer label shows which is HV and which is LV
03:56 PM roycroft: i rewired my coolant pump motor for my router spindle the other day to 240vac, and it did not work
03:56 PM roycroft: i thought i did something wrong when rewiring it, then realized i had wired it in series with another 240v device, instead of in parallel
03:56 PM roycroft: fortunatly that was not a fatal to the equipment mistake
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: sometimes you don't see your own mistakes, like prooofer readin
03:56 PM roycroft: unfortunately it was a really dumbass thing to do and i knew better yet did ti anyway
03:57 PM JT-Shop: control transformer in the BP died sunday too
03:57 PM fragalot: I remember as a young lad connecting up a brand new mitsubishi VMC and trusting the owner when he said their grid was 230V instead of 400V
03:57 PM fragalot: that was an expensive lesson.
03:57 PM roycroft: the indicator that was wired in series is a lot brighter now that it's wired in parallel :)
03:57 PM JT-Shop: maximum voltage on one I was thinking of using is 480v so the 500v killed them
03:57 PM roycroft: as in i can actually see it now
03:57 PM roycroft: without having to turn off the lights
03:58 PM fragalot: JT-Shop: go for a 500V nominal one then, as they obviously don't have a 480V grid
03:58 PM fragalot: the one I linked from Block works well
03:59 PM JT-Shop: but it's on your side of the pond...
03:59 PM fragalot: I think newark also sells them
03:59 PM JT-Shop: I'll look
04:00 PM JT-Shop: allied has them
04:02 PM fragalot: bear in mind the one I linked was a dual output one
04:08 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: this is mine https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f0/Yogi_Bear_Yogi_Bear.png/200px-Yogi_Bear_Yogi_Bear.png
04:09 PM JT-Shop: Freight Charge: $20.00 once per order Delivery in 5-7 business days from our UK warehouse for in stock items
04:10 PM fragalot: >.<
04:12 PM Deejay: gn8
04:13 PM Tom_L: jt, this isn't for the chicken coup is it??
04:15 PM JT-Shop: no for the tumbler
04:15 PM miss0r: fragalot: uploading 4 pictures of the progress so far as we speak
04:15 PM fragalot: miss0r: :D
04:16 PM fragalot: miss0r: I just spent a few minutes trying to make a 2D drawing in fusion, and i'm not sure if I would want to even ask you for a quote with the shite it spits out
04:16 PM miss0r: :]
04:17 PM fragalot: miss0r: https://imgur.com/a/QQJiJ (ignoring the duplicate diameter markings, those were just "what happens if" dimension placements.. https://imgur.com/a/QQJiJ
04:17 PM miss0r: There we go: https://imgur.com/a/tas9N
04:17 PM fragalot: and that's one of the simplest pieces
04:17 PM gloops: use librecad
04:17 PM fragalot: gloops: there is absolutely zero point in me making 2D drawings in another CAD program, other than increasing the likelyhood of making a mistake
04:17 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, still fighting the tumbler ehh?
04:18 PM miss0r: Looks easy enoug. What place thickness is that ?
04:18 PM fragalot: 20
04:18 PM miss0r: steel? tool aluminium?
04:18 PM fragalot: miss0r: how are those brass pins mounted?
04:18 PM fragalot: alu tooling plate
04:19 PM miss0r: fragalot: With a screw from the other side. its flanged in the end you can see
04:19 PM JT-Shop: yea
04:19 PM Tom_L: i thought you delivered that
04:19 PM Tom_L: onsite repairs are the shit
04:21 PM miss0r: fragalot: The last mechanical part I need it the part that actualy catches the cutoff... Then i'm going to start building the controller & programming the PLC
04:21 PM miss0r: This is actualy a pretty cute little project
04:21 PM fragalot: :D
04:22 PM miss0r: Looks pretty good, my belt rollers, that is? :)
04:22 PM fragalot: it does, i'm just curious if there will be a galvanic corrosion reaction between the brass & alu over time
04:23 PM miss0r: Yeah, over time that could do stuff.
04:23 PM miss0r: But in the application here it doesn't matter
04:24 PM miss0r: well... everything matters! :D but with the size of the brass, it will take 50 years to anything in shop humidity
04:25 PM fragalot: generates spare parts :P
04:26 PM miss0r: I managed to fsck the bore in the belt wheel on the motor.... Good thing they came in bags of 5. It is ever so slightly excentrical, and it feels with the tension i've put on the belt
04:26 PM fragalot: if you anodize the aluminium it should be fine in any case anyway
04:26 PM JT-Shop: well mcmaster carr says the max voltage for their transformer is 480v I assume I'll get the same answer from AD
04:27 PM miss0r: fragalot: I offered to get it anodized, but for some reason they were not interrested in that
04:27 PM JT-Shop: looks like Murr has one
04:27 PM fragalot: miss0r: probably cost?
04:27 PM miss0r: compared to the project cost it means nothing
04:27 PM fragalot: true, but customers are weird
04:27 PM miss0r: I suppose they have their reasons
04:28 PM miss0r: or just being weird
04:28 PM fragalot: what PLC are you going to use?
04:28 PM miss0r: an AllenBradley MicroLogix 1100
04:28 PM miss0r: (personal favorite for small projects like this)
04:29 PM fragalot: i'm not a fan of allen bradley
04:29 PM fragalot: i've made a few projects on their panels, forgot which one, and had a repeat order fomr that customer after 5 years
04:29 PM miss0r: I am. Especially considering I have 6 or 7 of thoes laying around, I can sell as new :D
04:29 PM fragalot: "excellent!" I thought
04:29 PM fragalot: opened up the old file
04:29 PM fragalot: "file too large"
04:29 PM fragalot: .. .what?
04:30 PM fragalot: turns out, AB did a firmware update that reduced the panel's maximum application size and my old application would no longer work, with no way to open, edit, or convert it
04:30 PM miss0r: sure... Their panels are.. well, you seem to have the right idea. But their PLCs are cute
04:31 PM fragalot: zero experience with their PLC's from my end - but we do use them upon request for certain machines
04:31 PM fragalot: most of the time it's our own custom controller as it's much faster than the PLC's, or Siemens
04:32 PM miss0r: Indeed. To tell you the truth, i'm not completely sure i'll be using the PLC. I was considering using an arduino actualy. I'm going to have an arduino control the motion anyway...
04:32 PM fragalot: I'm not sure if I'd use an arduino in an industrial application, personally
04:32 PM miss0r: I'll need to do some additional thinking on the subjets.
04:33 PM miss0r: Exactly my ponder
04:33 PM fragalot: they are fantastic for hobby projects, but they are far from compliant
04:33 PM JT-Shop: if you can get automation direct a click plc is cheap
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: :) http://www.openplcproject.com/
04:33 PM fragalot: JT-Shop: wrong side of the pond ;)
04:34 PM fragalot: for cheap PLC's in europe i'd suggest Delta.. they are.. well, budget PLC's, but they do work well for simple things
04:34 PM miss0r: as I said, i'll need to do some soul searching. ;)
04:34 PM miss0r: I'll head off to bed, see you around
04:34 PM fragalot: you only need about 3 or 4 manuals to get one block working some times though
04:34 PM fragalot: cya miss0r
04:34 PM CaptHindsight: I had a Delta last a year controlling a lathe
04:35 PM fragalot: I love their panels
04:35 PM fragalot: the DOP-B series
04:35 PM fragalot: incredibly cheap, good screen, and an incredibly powerful back-end for the price
04:36 PM CaptHindsight: I have to build a prototype machine. I'm just using LCNC with classic ladder...
04:36 PM CaptHindsight: since they will probably change the spec 2-3 more times and want to blockchain all the data monitored
04:36 PM fragalot: xD
04:37 PM CaptHindsight: so it would be a PLC + a PC or some ARM SBC with Linux anyway
04:37 PM fragalot: what about an eWON or similar?
04:38 PM fragalot: PLC + eWON to collect & transmit the data over a VPN, where the customer (or you) can then pull it out of the eWon datamailbox system whenever it suits them (data remains availale for 14 days)
04:38 PM CaptHindsight: data has to stay forever
04:38 PM CaptHindsight: no clouds involved
04:39 PM fragalot: so everything stays within their local network?
04:40 PM CaptHindsight: no, but all the data has to be secure and traceable
04:40 PM fragalot: https://i.imgur.com/zEsiYy9.mp4 <= about earlier.
04:41 PM CaptHindsight: might have to be burned to ROM
04:41 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: Fun. :-)
04:41 PM CaptHindsight: why I don't fight bears
04:42 PM fragalot: did you see that video of the guy that punched a 'roo?
04:43 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
04:43 PM fragalot: if you had to choose
04:43 PM fragalot: bear or roo?
04:44 PM fragalot: or a moose
04:45 PM gloops: Russian exile Nikolai Glushkov found dead at his London home < the plot thickens
04:47 PM gloops: was watching something earlier about this nerve agent, the man who invented it was so shocked by its strength and invisibility, he fled to the usa
04:48 PM gloops: you only need to touch something its on - dead, this would kill millions of people if exploded in a bomb say
04:49 PM dioz: we need a cleansing
04:49 PM dioz: i welcome it ;]
04:49 PM Rab: Some day a real rain will come.
04:49 PM gloops: you favour a cull dioz?
04:50 PM dioz: idk about favour...
04:50 PM fragalot: I'm in favour of not dying.
04:50 PM dioz: i think that the decadence and debauchery has risen to a high level
04:50 PM dioz: i think the things we view as important need to be adjusted
04:50 PM gloops: yes i agree
04:50 PM fragalot: not dying. that's quite important
04:51 PM dioz: i'd say that it would be an awakening of sorts if it happened naturally
04:51 PM gloops: im probably like the american amish in principle
04:52 PM gloops: well, in some things anyway
04:52 PM CaptHindsight: rather than a weapon that kills if it only makes people dumb and reliant on others?
04:52 PM gloops: that already exists
04:53 PM gloops: its called coronation street
04:53 PM fragalot: The internet.
04:53 PM gloops: the internet can be informative
04:54 PM fragalot: the issue is that there is no vetting of how valid that information is
04:54 PM fragalot: on the internet you can find what you want to find, even if that thing is wrong
04:55 PM gloops: well at least the alternatives are freely available to compare
04:55 PM gloops: you can use your own judgement to decide what is fact or fiction
04:55 PM fragalot: why would you when you can find results that match what you want to believe?
04:56 PM gloops: well that doesnt necessarily give anyone control over your thoughts
04:56 PM gloops: so there wouldnt be any point constructing the net for that purpose
04:57 PM fragalot: all i'm saying is that there are entire websites dedicated to saying the earth is flat
04:58 PM fragalot: and as long as bullshit like that exists on the internet, and has just as much credibility (because we saw it on the internet), the internet is something that helps keep people dumb and uneducated.
04:59 PM gloops: well, any authority or centralised body informing people is inevitably biased or corrupt
04:59 PM fragalot: yup, there is no easy fix :)
04:59 PM gloops: and if you say free information is also likely to dumb the masses down, theres no solution
05:00 PM gloops: ban stupid people from voting
05:00 PM fragalot: Teaching critical thinking would go a long way
05:00 PM fragalot: but that takes generations to solve
05:00 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: i dont think the internet keeps people dumb and uneducated. I would say it takes effort to educate oneself regardless of the medium, and a lot of people seem to not invest that kind of effort
05:01 PM gloops: good luck teaching the bulk of the population anything
05:01 PM gloops: yes as Loet said
05:01 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: how secure is eWon? where is the source?
05:01 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: that only works if the sources you seek are trustworthy.
05:01 PM gloops: you can only provide an environment where people CAN find accurate information if they choose to
05:02 PM gloops: you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink
05:04 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: there are no entirely trustworthy SINGLE sources
05:04 PM Loetmichel: you'll have to sift thru a lot more trash and BS on the internet than lets say the Times for example
05:04 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: i'm not saying there are. I'm just saying that there are a lot that aren't.
05:04 PM Loetmichel: but even the times inst entirely correct (or without bias)
05:05 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: have you used any of the openSCADA?
05:05 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: https://ewon.biz/about-us/security
05:05 PM Loetmichel: so the general rule should be to take ANY medium with a grain of salt and double check with other sources
05:05 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: I haven't, no
05:05 PM Loetmichel: s/inst/isnt
05:07 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: we've selected eWON for all of our systems because it's hassle free.. we also opted to never supply the enternet WAN versions but always go for 4G to avoid the whole dealing with the customers' IT services
05:07 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: the advantage of eWON, for us, is that it JustWorks.
05:07 PM fragalot: granted, 95% of the use cases so far are remote access, rather than data logging
05:09 PM CaptHindsight: this is mostly logging to meet guberment regs
05:09 PM CaptHindsight: FDA, ATF, military etc
05:10 PM fragalot: there the advantage is more for continuous logging, even if the network is unreliable
05:10 PM fragalot: it jsut caches locally & pushes data when it can / is allowed to
05:10 PM CaptHindsight: parts of the system are even in locked boxes with tamper detection
05:11 PM CaptHindsight: and guys with machine guns will show up if there is funny business
05:11 PM fragalot: no self destruct?
05:11 PM CaptHindsight: I pushed for sharks with lasers
05:12 PM fragalot: even our controllers self destruct if you tamper.. and they're just generic industrial stuff
05:12 PM CaptHindsight: by design
05:18 PM CaptHindsight: anyone use http://www.opto22.com/site/snap_pac_system.aspx ?
05:19 PM CaptHindsight: I've only used their IO modules
05:19 PM CaptHindsight: never the controllers or software
05:37 PM CaptHindsight: "open source alternative platform for control when security and safety are not an issue."
05:45 PM nallar is now known as Ross
06:59 PM CNCZombie is now known as DanMN
11:22 PM CaptHindsight: Stephen Hawking dies aged 76