Mar 09 2018
12:34 AM IchGucksLive: morning
12:36 AM fragalot: morning IchGucksLive
12:57 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: ?
12:58 AM IchGucksLive: im off BYE
12:59 AM fragalot: CaptHindsight: the world is saved. trump has accepted Kim Jong-un's invitation to sit down & talk. This can only go well. :-)
01:00 AM fragalot: start off with an ungodly long handshake to assert dominance
02:16 AM gloops: well, cup of tea and back to the machine
02:17 AM Deejay: moin
02:17 AM gloops: howdy
02:25 AM gloops: at the back of my mind ive been pondering kinematics, non-trivial kinematics, so converting joint movements into cartesian positions
02:26 AM gloops: which generally looks fairly straightforward
02:27 AM gloops: i still havent got in my mind what happens when axis share joints, like a robot arm for example, if you have 3 joints ABC, and the X axis requires A+B to move to attain an X position
02:28 AM gloops: but moving those joints would also affect the Z position, how do you compensate for that?
02:58 AM Loetmichel: *gnhihi* A bit careless i am again... had to modify a selfmade DVI/dsub enclosure after the coworker used wider dvi plugs than the last time for the insert. never bothered to clamp the pices down though. ;-) (caution loud) https://youtu.be/1Ym4Y9HEm4s
04:12 AM gloops: that worked ok?
04:13 AM gloops: my head is finally coming round to wiring up again, when youve been away from it it takes a day to get it all back in your mind
04:14 AM gloops: have also discovered stuff movement on one screw, i never noticed before, that will need looking at
04:14 AM gloops: stiff
04:18 AM gloops: i wonder how long welding movements go on for, its been made for 2 month
04:34 AM jthornton: morning
04:34 AM XXCoder: heys
04:35 AM jthornton: dang it's really going to take 48 hours to resync the new nas hard drive lol
04:35 AM XXCoder: aw so it's not microsoft minutes eh
04:41 AM holzjunkie: jthornton: hy everything is done thank you
04:41 AM jthornton: I saw that this morning
04:43 AM jthornton: Missouri turkey farm quarantined after bird flu detected
04:44 AM XXCoder: ow
04:45 AM jthornton: https://www.fredericksburg.com/news/news-wire/missouri-turkey-farm-quarantined-after-bird-flu-detected/article_a1715c80-5598-5a6a-87ed-d7ffe6c7311d.html
04:45 AM jthornton: H7N1 avian influenza, a low-pathogenic form
04:46 AM jthornton: at least it is on the other side of the state from me
05:01 AM gloops: think it was the year before last we had an outbreak, everybody was supposed to keep their chickens in until the all clear was given, not that many small keepers did
05:01 AM gloops: no movement or anything either, no auctions
05:14 AM holzjunkie1 is now known as holzjunkie
05:17 AM jthornton: I got a fart egg yesterday, second one this week
05:17 AM XXCoder: frt egg?
05:18 AM jthornton: no yolk and very tiny
05:18 AM jthornton: a piece of tissue fooled the egg making machine to think it was a egg
05:19 AM XXCoder: lol ok
05:29 AM Loetmichel: jthornton: thats the problem when you have the production unit in the sewers :-)
05:31 AM XXCoder: so there could be shitegg eh
05:31 AM * Deejay farts an egg
05:33 AM jthornton: The hen's oviduct releases a small piece of reproductive tissue or another small foreign mass enters the hen's oviduct, triggering the regular formation of an egg. The foreign object will be treated like a normal yolk and enveloped in albumen, membranes and a shell
05:33 AM XXCoder: how often do it happen, and how do you know its not regular egg
05:36 AM jthornton: I've gotten 4 fart eggs and 5 soft shell eggs out of 526 total
05:37 AM jthornton: I boil them then cut them up and feed them back to the chickens
05:38 AM XXCoder: so pretty rare
05:38 AM XXCoder: and wow yyou have 526 eggs already
05:38 AM jthornton: yea I get 9 eggs most days
05:43 AM XXCoder: nice
05:44 AM XXCoder: new primitive tech video!
05:44 AM XXCoder: I love that channel.
05:51 AM gloops: im working with sheer crap, spindle plug - stupid tinny crimp on connectors that disintegrate when you squeeze them
05:51 AM gloops: thats where the time goes, soldering job now
06:09 AM ronse: Using a MacBook Pro laptop is it possible to download the linuxcnc program and burn it to a cd?
06:43 AM jthornton: I would assume so but I don't have a mac
07:17 AM Kerr-A: someone directed me here and said you guys would know where to get a pindle for my CNC project
07:18 AM Kerr-A: I want something in the 6000-18000 rpm range ~1/3hp or more...
07:18 AM Jymmm: ronse: To burn, yes. Not sure if it has/supports EFI to boot from it on your MBP.
07:20 AM Jymmm: ronse: Can use virtualbox to run it as a VM
08:23 AM * Jymmm broke bc =(
08:24 AM gloops: bc?
08:25 AM Jymmm: gloops: command line calculator
08:25 AM gloops: i see, not something i know anything about heh
08:26 AM Jymmm: gloops: open a shell, bc<ENTER>, 2*3<ENTER>
08:28 AM Jymmm: gloops: quit<enter> to exit
08:29 AM gloops: oh yeah :)
08:30 AM gloops: i generally use the calculator tool on mint
08:35 AM Jymmm: gloops: little rough for things like 2^13466917-1
08:36 AM * roycroft prefers dc, but he's an hp user, not a ti user
08:37 AM Jymmm: dc?
08:37 AM roycroft: it's an rpn command line calcluator
08:37 AM Jymmm: ah
08:37 AM Rab: Jymmm, I put that into bc and it's just sitting there using 100% CPU, now what?
08:38 AM gloops: i get precision error in advanced mode on mint
08:38 AM Jymmm: Rab: Wait till it outputs all 4 million digits?
08:38 AM Rab: At least qalculate has the good manners to tell me it's "Processing..."
08:39 AM gloops: i will only need a good calc when i build my hexapod
08:39 AM gloops: or quadropod
08:39 AM Jymmm: Rab: specifically 4,053,946 digits
08:40 AM Rab: This game is worse than Desert Bus, killingall bc
08:40 AM Jymmm: Rab: good answer
08:40 AM roycroft: 9 times out of 10 i just pick up a calculator though
08:41 AM Jymmm: Only calc I own now is my HP
08:42 AM roycroft: i have a bunch of them
08:43 AM Jymmm: Rab: If you're REALLY bored... 2^77232917-1
08:43 AM Jymmm: Rab: Largest known prime number, 23M digits =)
08:44 AM roycroft: one in my backpack, one on my office desk, one on a end table in my living room, one on each workbench in my shop, one by my mill/drill, one by my lathe, and a few others in a desk drawer
08:44 AM roycroft: whenever i see a nice, vintage hp at the goodwill or other second-hand store for cheap i get it
08:45 AM roycroft: and none of them have that confounded = key :)
08:45 AM Rab: I saw one in the box at a hamfest, passed it up though...I think I spotted battery crust.
08:45 AM gloops: well, could really really do with going to bed as knackered, but got to ring someone and go and pick a load of stuff up...funny how those things you said yes to without thinking catch up at the wrong moment
08:46 AM roycroft: a proper calculator has an enter key to push items onto the stack
08:46 AM roycroft: i got an 11c a year or so ago for $1.99, and it included the case and book
08:46 AM Rab: I love cool old pocket calculators, I have a collection from various hamfests. But protip: if they have batteries installed, take them out.
08:47 AM roycroft: older hp calculators use button cells, and they don't ever leak
08:47 AM roycroft: at least i haven't experienced them leaking
08:47 AM roycroft: they last for years, too
08:48 AM roycroft: which is good, because it costs me $7 or so to get batteries for my new-to-me vintage $2 calculator
08:48 AM roycroft: i do usually replace them right away
08:48 AM roycroft: even if the calculator works when i get it
08:53 AM Rab: This is my favorite vintage-not-ancient calculator, TI 34: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1C0AAOSwnkdaiFUW/s-l1600.jpg
08:54 AM Rab: Solar powered, easy base conversion. I used to use it for programming, until the LCD strip delaminated from the PCB. Now software calcs are a lot handier, just paste the result.
08:55 AM Rab: And the color scheme is just top notch.
08:56 AM roycroft: i love the landscape layout hps, like the 10 series
08:57 AM roycroft: but my favorite calculator, and the one i use the most is the 32sii
08:57 AM roycroft: not really a "vintage" calculater - it dates back to the early 1990s
08:58 AM methods_: https://www.designboom.com/technology/personalised-robot-exosuits-created-harvard-researchers-signal-future-wearable-technology-03-09-2018/
08:58 AM roycroft: but it is fast, has a great set of built-in functions, is easy to program, and does unit conversions and fractional math
09:29 AM * Loetmichel wants a cnc lathe... turning 180++ dsub bolts down to fit in the dsub adapters on my private c0 lathe isnt fun... -> https://youtu.be/4n0rmiiDVD4
09:38 AM SpeedEvil: you mean those necked shaft bolts?
09:41 AM Loetmichel: yes
09:42 AM SpeedEvil: Did you need them urgently?
09:47 AM Loetmichel: yes
09:47 AM Loetmichel: rest of the delivery is already on the truck
09:47 AM Loetmichel: and the adapters are still not done ;)
09:47 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15850&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- these
10:11 AM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: which spindle is used here? http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15892
10:27 AM Loetmichel: 800W watercooled chinse 24krpm threphase
10:27 AM Loetmichel: +e
10:27 AM Loetmichel: @ CaptHindsight
10:36 AM Rab: Loetmichel, you're milling your own DA backshell from aluminum? Is that for product finish, or is there really no existing backshell product?
10:36 AM Loetmichel: Rab: no existing producht
10:37 AM Loetmichel: you can get Dsub/dsub and DVI/DDVI shells
10:37 AM Loetmichel: but no DVI/DSUB
10:38 AM Rab: Ahh, the DVI connector doesn't fit in a DSUB retainer?
10:40 AM Loetmichel: nope. DVI is about 2mm smaller
10:41 AM Loetmichel: (less wide)
10:41 AM Loetmichel: thats the reason why you can see on the picture that the bolts are slightly slanted
10:42 AM Loetmichel: and yes, i made a LOT of aluminium dust to produce those...
10:42 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17019
10:43 AM Loetmichel: thats 8mm AlMg3 sheet material
10:46 AM Rab: haha, wow
10:51 AM SpeedEvil: Why AlMg?
10:57 AM roycroft: who is the freecad developer here?
10:57 AM roycroft: is it ichguckslive?
11:25 AM gloops: sliptronic
11:25 AM gloops: ichs has started on freecad too
11:28 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
11:29 AM gloops: evening
11:33 AM jesseg_ is now known as Jesse2AK
11:35 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: rain all day and untill next week
11:35 AM IchGucksLive: woudt have started gardening tomorrow
11:35 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: ?
11:35 AM gloops: nice day here, supposed to be 16C over weekend
11:36 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: is it still daylight at your place
11:37 AM gloops: still light now, while about 6.15
11:38 AM IchGucksLive: UK isent it 1hr ahead
11:38 AM gloops: bees were out this morning, still time for more cold yet though
11:38 AM gloops: our clocks change on 25th i think
11:39 AM IchGucksLive: kayburly wasent in duty this wek
11:39 AM gloops: think she did womens day - saw her in tight pink dress
11:40 AM IchGucksLive: pink at that age pretty bad
11:40 AM gloops: lol
11:42 AM gloops: roycroft was looking for freecad advice
11:43 AM IchGucksLive: dident you tell him my YT channel
11:43 AM gloops: <roycroft> who is the freecad developer here?
11:43 AM gloops: not seen him since
11:44 AM IchGucksLive: roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmwhCL92ZQRSVqFe3jGwJSQ/videos
11:44 AM IchGucksLive: we are in totel Freez now so only Hourers away from 0,17 release
11:44 AM fragalot: hi
11:45 AM gloops: hello
11:45 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: low
11:45 AM gloops: whens 18 out Ichs?
11:45 AM IchGucksLive: it is now the master
11:45 AM IchGucksLive: so all ubuntu linux users are on 0,18
11:46 AM IchGucksLive: while win is still on 0,16
11:47 AM gloops: i might draw something with freecad tonight, just to keep my hand in
11:48 AM IchGucksLive: i did yesterday finish the Troid milling
11:48 AM IchGucksLive: let me do a offical 0,18 Video
11:48 AM IchGucksLive: wait some minutes
11:51 AM gloops: freecad is actually really quick for straightforward metal machining jobs, pocketing, slotting, drilling etc
12:00 PM roycroft: ichguckslive: are you about?
12:09 PM IchGucksLive: yes im on it right now uploading
12:15 PM roycroft: it's interesting that you are discussing freecad releases, as that is what i wanted to comment on this morning
12:15 PM roycroft: it took me a lot longer than it should have for me to determine that i'm running the current version
12:15 PM roycroft: it would be nice to have a "check for updates" menu option in the software
12:15 PM roycroft: but lacking that, at the very least, on the download page of the website it should say "the current stable version is 0.17)
12:16 PM roycroft: "
12:16 PM roycroft: instead, it just has a link to download the package
12:16 PM IchGucksLive: just up https://www.google.de/
12:17 PM IchGucksLive: the current stable version is 0.16
12:17 PM IchGucksLive: https://youtu.be/lPrP80Onbog
12:18 PM roycroft: i have 0.17 on my macs
12:18 PM IchGucksLive: roycroft: im forced to delete Trochoidal ToolPath Profile
12:18 PM IchGucksLive: as we speek
12:18 PM roycroft: and i thought that i installed the current stable version at the time, not a development version
12:18 PM IchGucksLive: roy there is a 24hr release if merges happen
12:19 PM IchGucksLive: so you got a new version within the wake up
12:21 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: can you please check the sound
12:21 PM roycroft: hmm
12:22 PM roycroft: well i have 0.17 build 13217
12:22 PM roycroft: should i use 0.16 if i want to run the most stable release?
12:22 PM roycroft: i don't know why i have that version if 0.16 is the stable version
12:22 PM roycroft: perhaps you told me to use it :)
12:22 PM fragalot: is there a stable version?
12:22 PM roycroft: stability is always relative
12:24 PM IchGucksLive: roycroft: about 25 changes today and 14 in hold
12:24 PM IchGucksLive: so the front end is a triggy thing
12:27 PM gloops: Ichs trok oid al lol
12:27 PM IchGucksLive: yes this word is triggy
12:28 PM IchGucksLive: spelling is as triggy as the age times -1
12:28 PM gloops: very good spoken english though in the video
12:30 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8
12:45 PM JT-Shop: I delivered the machine yesterday and they connect 480v 3ph up to it and the 480v to 120v smokes... I find another one and it smokes too in about 10 seconds
12:46 PM fragalot: JT-Shop: o.O
12:47 PM JT-Shop: yea I had them run an extension cord over until I sort that out
12:47 PM fragalot: any guess as to what caused it?
12:48 PM JT-Shop: phase to phase is 500v phase to ground is 295v
12:48 PM JT-Shop: no ideas
01:06 PM gloops: @Telegraph
01:06 PM gloops: 9m9 minutes ago
01:06 PM gloops: EU threatens to sue Britain if it negotiates UK exemption from Trump tariffs < lol! wtf
01:07 PM fragalot: lol
01:10 PM gloops: we've always been closer to our old friends in america
01:11 PM fragalot: I think the EU's issue now is that the UK is still part of the EU now
01:11 PM fragalot: so it has no legal basis to negotiate on it's own
01:11 PM gloops: we can negotiate so long as we dont sign anything surely
01:12 PM fragalot: no idea what was on that piece of paper you signed after helping draw it up
01:12 PM roycroft: i'm not sure that you legally can, until you've officially left the eu
01:12 PM gloops: trump has hinted warmly to theresa may that the UK will get a better deal with tariffs
01:12 PM gloops: who knows what happened during their meet
01:13 PM roycroft: trump still thinks he can negotiate with individual eu member nations
01:13 PM roycroft: he wants to sign a trade agreement with germany
01:13 PM roycroft: he still doesn't get it
01:13 PM fragalot: is trump still going to be in power when brexit is completed?
01:13 PM gloops: hes getting a lot right roycroft, stock markets through the roof today
01:13 PM gloops: north korean capitulation
01:14 PM fragalot: i'm not sure if that's trump, or rocket man being very clever
01:14 PM gloops: trump is in power till he dies
01:14 PM fragalot: he doesn't want war
01:14 PM roycroft: eu members have only beat him over the head about 1,000,000 times with the fact that he needs to negotiate with the eu, not with individual member states
01:14 PM fragalot: but he also doesn't want to lose face
01:14 PM fragalot: the winter olympics were the perfect opener to talk things down without losing face
01:14 PM roycroft: if he actually accomplishes something with north korea i'll give him credit for that
01:14 PM gloops: fragalot Kim is running scared, he darent mess with trump
01:14 PM gloops: sight of half the american fleet off the coast changed his mind
01:14 PM roycroft: but he's done nothing so far but agree to a meeting that the south korean president set up
01:15 PM roycroft: trump gets ZERO credit for the meeting
01:15 PM gloops: roycroft hes on our TV - hes a broken man
01:15 PM roycroft: but if the meeting is fruitful i'll give him credit for that
01:15 PM fragalot: gloops: but is that due to the US fleet, or the global economic sanctions
01:15 PM fragalot: i'm with roycroft
01:15 PM gloops: ill say this, the south korean general public being interviewed seem very sensible intelligent people
01:17 PM roycroft: and we won't know for years of any agreement trump makes with north korea is useful
01:17 PM roycroft: if, not of
01:17 PM fragalot: roycroft: we may learn pretty quick
01:17 PM fragalot: if it doesn't work out
01:17 PM roycroft: if it doesn't work out we'll know right away
01:17 PM gloops: hes already pledged to disarm and scrap nuclear for good
01:17 PM roycroft: but if it does we won't know for years
01:17 PM fragalot: look for the live twitter updates from trump during the meeting
01:18 PM roycroft: and kim has never lied
01:18 PM roycroft: he's always kept his word
01:18 PM roycroft: come on, you're not that stupid
01:18 PM fragalot: all kim wants to do is stay in power as a dictator,
01:18 PM gloops: youll be going to Nk for holidays in 2 years, eating macdonalds
01:18 PM fragalot: going to war is not a way to stay in power as a small nation
01:18 PM roycroft: now you're just trolling
01:19 PM gloops: nope, its coming, you watch
01:19 PM * roycroft is done taking the bait
01:19 PM gloops: theyre sick of being broke
01:21 PM roycroft: i'm not going to predict anything
01:22 PM fragalot: roycroft: the winning lottery numbers will be 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42.
01:49 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: nah we went though this about 10 years ago https://youtu.be/RPBX47zSktc?t=56s (actual news clips)
01:49 PM fragalot: xD
01:51 PM XXCoder: I pick 2 3 5 7 11 13 ;)
01:51 PM XXCoder: they are after all, prime numbers. best of them all.
01:52 PM gloops: hmm that reminds me i did the lotto yesterday
01:52 PM XXCoder: just don't call it "investing"
01:54 PM roycroft: the lottery is best called a "poor tax"
01:55 PM XXCoder: no, it's "poor understanding of statistics tax"
01:55 PM gloops: 2 numbers
01:56 PM roycroft: the local market that i frequent have a game each year where they give away prizes from a $5 grocery card to $1 million cash
01:56 PM roycroft: i usually play that game
01:57 PM roycroft: and i have friends who think that's inconsistent with my opposition to playing the lottery
01:57 PM roycroft: the difference being that they give away the game tickets for free with grocery purchases
01:57 PM roycroft: so it costs me nothing but the wee bit of time it takes to check the tickets
01:57 PM XXCoder: honestly it can be fine to gamble, just don't gamble what you cannot afford to just throw away, and don't consider it "investing"
01:58 PM roycroft: and i have won small cash prizes from $5 to $20 several times, and $100 once
01:58 PM roycroft: right
01:58 PM roycroft: gambling is entertainment
01:58 PM XXCoder: that said, I only very rarely gamble myself.
01:58 PM gloops: i put it on if i happen to go to the shop and think about it at the counter
01:58 PM roycroft: and if you enjoy it and can afford it, it's fine
01:58 PM gloops: like 'oh and a lottery ticket pls'
01:58 PM roycroft: i don't really enjoy it
01:58 PM roycroft: i've had partners who do, and i've gone along
01:59 PM roycroft: but i always looked at it as "i will gamble $100 tonight. this evening's entertainment will cost me up to $100"
01:59 PM roycroft: if i go to the casino, spend 3 hours gambling, and lose the $100, i consider it a night of entertainment
01:59 PM XXCoder: nice way to view it
01:59 PM roycroft: if i walk out with $100, then i got free entertainment that night
02:00 PM roycroft: and if i walk out with >$100, i was lucky that night
02:00 PM gloops: i had an uncle who kept greyhounds, i used to to walk them sometimes and go to the track with him, most of the racing is fixed in some way
02:00 PM gloops: half the dogs are doped, tired out, fed to bursting point etc
02:01 PM roycroft: i don't see any other sane way of looking at it, xxcoder
02:01 PM roycroft: but really don't like casinos
02:01 PM XXCoder: yeah me either
02:01 PM roycroft: they are indoors, stuffy, noisy
02:01 PM roycroft: full of drunk people
02:01 PM gloops: the owners deliberately make their dogs under-perform for a while, so the bookies odds on them go up
02:02 PM gloops: then when the odds are right - they take the dog in top form, and it wins
02:02 PM gloops: no public better knows any of this
02:05 PM XXCoder: fun
02:10 PM gloops: not much fun for the dogs though, im not particularly squeamish with animals but greyhounds mostly have a miserable and short life
02:16 PM XXCoder: yeah it sucks
02:16 PM XXCoder: thats why I will never watch, let alone gamble at ione
02:26 PM gloops: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/592720167740605 nice set of drawers
02:39 PM beachbump: Hey guys whats goin on in LinuxCNC land ;)
02:42 PM beachbump: anyone know a lot about SLA printers for semi commercial use?
02:43 PM fragalot: beachbump: you want CaptHindsight
02:44 PM beachbump: Agreed
02:44 PM beachbump: thanks
02:45 PM beachbump: I just got tasked from my new employer to start looking for one for prototyping of small models. was hoping there was someone here who has real experience with them.
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: beachbump: what size parts?
02:51 PM beachbump: he said he wants at least 10x10x10
02:51 PM beachbump: looking to buy a new unit that is good and reliable for a reasonable price.
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: inches or cm?
02:51 PM beachbump: sorry IN
02:52 PM XXCoder: 10" cubed workspace or 10" cubed item?
02:52 PM CaptHindsight: all the inexpensive ones are have smaller build areas
02:53 PM beachbump: I know we were looking at them online most are rather small envelope
02:53 PM beachbump: is there a particularly good brand out there to look into?
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: depends
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: the better they are made the more closed source they become
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: take Formlabs for instance
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: they put resin in chipped cartridges like inkjets
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: they have an "open mode" but cripple it for 3rd party resins
02:55 PM beachbump: ah I see
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: so it doesn't use the wiper, heater and stops after something like 1/4" of printing just to annoy you
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: beachbump: are you looking for something turnkey or are you willing to make some mods?
02:56 PM beachbump: how much cost would it be for one that has that envelope that is not restricted to closed source consumables? is there such a thing?
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: there are some new ones out that use a LCD that are inexpensive
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: 120 x 68 x 200mm for $399
02:57 PM XXCoder: lcd is comusable item in this case but yeah
02:57 PM XXCoder: lcds is pretty cheap anyway
02:57 PM beachbump: no he does not want to tinker at all this will be used for prototyping parts for customers
02:57 PM beachbump: he is looking at spending a couple grand for a good one here if that is possible
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.aniwaa.com/the-best-resin-3d-printer-sla-and-dlp/
02:58 PM beachbump: wants to buy and be making parts without drama
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: avoid the Formlabs and the Nobel1
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: B9 and 3Dsys is too expensive
02:59 PM gloops: Waymo's self-driving trucks to haul cargo for Google in Atlanta http://reut.rs/2oYbO9r
02:59 PM beachbump: 3D systems is one he was looking at actually
03:00 PM CaptHindsight: beachbump: they also lock you into their expensive resins
03:00 PM CaptHindsight: we sell SLA resins starting at $25/Kg in low quan
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: 3d's start at >$100kg
03:01 PM XXCoder: too bad SLS is still very expensive
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: https://peopoly.net/products/moai
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: it's not
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: he just wants one with a large print volume
03:02 PM XXCoder: SLS isn't SLA or DLP
03:02 PM XXCoder: laser sindering powder into object
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: or LCD but they are all similar in that they use a photopolymer
03:02 PM XXCoder: lcd cant get hot enough to fuse powder :)
03:03 PM XXCoder: thats why SLS isnt sla or dlp
03:03 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xorCFh-9EWA
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: SLS is low cost if you want to use cheap parts
03:04 PM fragalot: XXCoder: I'm fairly confident that CaptHindsight knows the difference
03:04 PM beachbump: I need to go right now but I REALLY need to source a good machine for a reasonable price. if you can provide the materials we would be willing to purchase from you as well.
03:04 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: why isnt there cheap sls yet?
03:04 PM XXCoder: cheapest is 5k usd and it was fairly crappy
03:04 PM fragalot: XXCoder: you can get a small SLS machine under 15k
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: SLS https://ibin.co/w800/3i0LDN2s3TZ7.jpg the insides of one of mine
03:05 PM fragalot: SLS just requires a bit more finesse so it's harder to build cheaply
03:05 PM CaptHindsight: beachbump: https://peopoly.net/products/moai
03:05 PM beachbump: I will be back on later tonight if you come up with anything that is a good option but I dont expect you to search for me specifically. THanks for any help tho.
03:06 PM CaptHindsight: beachbump: not 10^3 but open and <$2k
03:06 PM XXCoder: fragalot: makes sense, have to manage powder
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: the cost in SLS is the quality of the laser, galvos, optics, oven design, temp control etc
03:07 PM beachbump: ok thanks
03:07 PM beachbump: TTYL
03:08 PM CaptHindsight: I could probably build a crappy SLS for $1k of ebay parts that compare to the $100k units
03:08 PM XXCoder: ah yes CaptHindsight I had an idea of using laser and galvos to fake a vector display
03:08 PM CaptHindsight: it just won't last as long
03:08 PM XXCoder: but I suck on designing and building lol
03:08 PM XXCoder: thought up this because vector tv and montiors is not made anymore and evenually will be gone.
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: here are the new cheap crappy SLS printers https://www.aniwaa.com/best-professional-desktop-sls-3d-printers/
03:10 PM XXCoder: fancy. lol
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: most feature vendor lock in to their materials
03:11 PM XXCoder: npt surpised, they want to be new ink seller
03:11 PM XXCoder: ink is literally more expensive than blood, even at usa hospital cost
03:16 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: thanks
03:20 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: check this out https://youtu.be/S2JKr-Vkz8A
03:20 PM XXCoder: flickering due to freq mismatch but otherwise...
03:21 PM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/OHbsrLW-iag smoother with fewer lines
03:22 PM XXCoder: so I guess all it needs is some material that glows briefly after being hit with laser
03:22 PM XXCoder: so it would be much smoother
03:24 PM andypugh: I found a use for the drive centre that I got from eBay. (It was listed as a “cutter” but was nothingof the sort.
03:24 PM andypugh: https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0l532ODW40YLI
03:24 PM andypugh: I needed to remove the pulley from the motor.
03:25 PM XXCoder: lathe, boat, mill. one of em does not belong.
03:26 PM andypugh: Bice forklift though, isn’t it?
03:26 PM andypugh: (Nice, that should be)
04:04 PM Deejay: gn8
04:05 PM fragalot: gloops: https://imgur.com/gallery/QYUum
04:15 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: I used to work on those back in the 70's for video arcade games
04:15 PM XXCoder: using laser with galvos?
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: electron guns and coils
04:16 PM XXCoder: yeah thats regular way
04:16 PM fragalot: why would you put a moving part in if you don't have to
04:16 PM XXCoder: problem is that those isnt being made anymore
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: no moving parts except for the electrons
04:16 PM XXCoder: and theres lots of vector display arcades
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: make your own tubes
04:17 PM CaptHindsight: or vector LCD :)
04:17 PM XXCoder: interesting thing is that one company tried
04:17 PM XXCoder: they failed
04:17 PM XXCoder: so the company closed down
04:17 PM XXCoder: vector lcd how would that work
04:17 PM CaptHindsight: well like I useta tell my kids, all depends on whois doin it
04:18 PM CaptHindsight: bbl, to the store :(
04:19 PM XXCoder: fun. later
06:09 PM andypugh: Any CRT can be a vector dislay
06:14 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, not sure what problems the co XXCoder mentioned had
06:20 PM BeachBumPete: hey guys happy weekend :)
06:20 PM CaptHindsight: another cold one here
06:21 PM BeachBumPete: I know it was actually a bit nippy here this morning down into the upper 40's or so
06:25 PM BeachBumPete: CaptHindsight I appreciate your assistance earlier with the 3D printer information.
06:28 PM CaptHindsight: no problem, there's just not much available for cheap with a large print area
06:28 PM BeachBumPete: well I never said he wanted cheap
06:28 PM CaptHindsight: top down projection or laser would be best but they are either DIY or $$$$
06:29 PM BeachBumPete: in fact he is getting ready to buy a VMC and a 5x10 flatbed CNC router.
06:29 PM CaptHindsight: you either need a laser with a large scan area or DLP/LCD that steps over the surface
06:29 PM BeachBumPete: he is just wanting the 3D printer to play with and learn the process and ultimately to make models for customer presentation
06:30 PM BeachBumPete: I thought the SLP was laser
06:31 PM CaptHindsight: SLA
06:31 PM BeachBumPete: er yeah
06:31 PM CaptHindsight: SLA with laser, it's similar to DLP and LCD
06:31 PM CaptHindsight: SLA is just one point at a time vs an entire plane
06:33 PM BeachBumPete: ah ok
06:34 PM CaptHindsight: if he wants a LCNC one built to spec that I can do
06:34 PM BeachBumPete: oh yeah? I was not aware you could do LCNC for a 3d Printer
06:35 PM CaptHindsight: I've been building them for years, all custom
06:35 PM BeachBumPete: nice got any photos?
06:35 PM CaptHindsight: SLA, DLP, LCD, SLS, Inkjet etc
06:35 PM BeachBumPete: I knew you did the anodizing printer thing
06:36 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, thats inkjet and anodize
06:37 PM BeachBumPete: how hard would it be to have one that has the 10x10x10 envelope and be able to use anyones resins?
06:38 PM CaptHindsight: not a problem, 405nm laser and galvo scan head
06:38 PM BeachBumPete: real pricey?
06:39 PM CaptHindsight: https://ibin.co/w800/3i0LDN2s3TZ7.jpg here's an SLS, CO2 laser, galvo and small spot size/high res
06:39 PM CaptHindsight: depends on how long you want it to last
06:40 PM BeachBumPete: is that a 7i77 ;)
06:40 PM CaptHindsight: laser cost, galvo cost etc
06:40 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
06:41 PM BeachBumPete: I was not aware they were subject to term of life expectancy issues
06:42 PM CaptHindsight: https://imagebin.ca/v/3uL0LSd7e2Ut 7i77 driving a small galvo in a small SLA printer
06:43 PM CaptHindsight: think that one is ~ 4" x 4" x 4"
06:43 PM BeachBumPete: what is galvo?
06:43 PM BeachBumPete: forgive me I do not know much about these machines at all
06:44 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK14SaaYMoc diy galvo
06:45 PM CaptHindsight: it's a scanner that has two sets of galva type motors and mirrors
06:45 PM CaptHindsight: one for scanning the X and the other the Y
06:46 PM CaptHindsight: there is some smoke in this video so you can see the laser scanning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs1UL_ngtTw
06:48 PM BeachBumPete: sweet
06:48 PM CaptHindsight: you can see how the mirrors move here https://youtu.be/KgPyR0Rg3FQ?t=1m14s
06:49 PM CaptHindsight: so just like with machine tools, the better the laser, optics, etc the higher the price
06:50 PM CaptHindsight: so it comes down to price vs speed and resolution
06:51 PM BeachBumPete: interesting
06:51 PM jgnoss_: Hello all,, I'm going to configure a gantry machine with Mesa 5i23, what's a good way to start configuration
06:51 PM BeachBumPete: what sort of actual part precision do you expect from these machines in general?
06:51 PM jgnoss_: it's a stepper machine
06:52 PM jgnoss_: it's a wood router,
06:52 PM BeachBumPete: stepconf no?
06:52 PM CaptHindsight: BeachBumPete: you can get <100um XY features with 25um Z layers
06:56 PM jgnoss_: it's using a mesa card so pcncconf is the right tool for config, but I'm struggling how to configure the gantry stuff
06:56 PM jgnoss_: I have setup a machine using XYZA with A being a rotary axis, but now I want a Gantry
06:56 PM BeachBumPete: so thats like .003-.004 not too shabby
06:56 PM Tom_itx: mmm printer 101 tonight ehh?
06:56 PM BeachBumPete: I think you have to slave the axis for gantry or something like that
06:56 PM BeachBumPete: hey Tom
06:56 PM Tom_itx: whassup?
06:56 PM BeachBumPete: my company is wanting me to investigate the purchase of an 3d Printer
06:56 PM Tom_itx: been lookin over 360 a bit
06:56 PM BeachBumPete: as well as a few other CNC's that I will be running for them soon
06:56 PM Tom_itx: pretty soon you'll have em all over your house
06:56 PM BeachBumPete: how do you find 360?
06:56 PM Tom_itx: capable
06:56 PM BeachBumPete: agreed
06:56 PM Tom_itx: odd in places
06:57 PM BeachBumPete: yeah I think so too
06:57 PM Tom_itx: haven't had that much time to mess with it this week really
06:59 PM Tom_itx: get the guitar programmed yet?
06:59 PM BeachBumPete: still working on it. Have not had much time to play with it
07:00 PM BeachBumPete: my Van broke down on my this week
07:00 PM BeachBumPete: it started losing coolant
07:00 PM BeachBumPete: could not figure out where from tho
07:01 PM CaptHindsight: hope not the block
07:01 PM BeachBumPete: turns out that the leak is coming from the intake manifold gasket
07:01 PM BeachBumPete: I found coolant flowing out of the front right side near the head
07:01 PM BeachBumPete: gotta tear into it tomorrow morning unfortunately
07:03 PM CaptHindsight: in the olden days with V8's that would be a 2-3 hour job
07:04 PM BeachBumPete: well perhaps if it was NOT in a van maybe ;)
07:06 PM BeachBumPete: there is almost NO room above the motor in there and access is from the front and the back inside the vehicle
07:06 PM Tom_itx: yeah i always hated working on vans of any type
07:06 PM BeachBumPete: I LOVE Vans but it is a bitch to work on the top of the motor unfortunately
08:03 PM Tom_itx: andypugh on a leadin move do you know how to eliminate the line->arc leadin to just a line?
08:04 PM Tom_itx: i've set the arc radius to 0 and it still produces a line->arc leadin move
08:04 PM andypugh: Sorry, no. I always do the cutter comp in the CAM
08:04 PM Tom_itx: leadin for a pocket in a predrilled hole
08:05 PM andypugh: 360 question?
08:05 PM Tom_itx: i see why they do it, i just wanted something else
08:05 PM Tom_itx: yes
08:05 PM andypugh: You can define the the entry position.
08:05 PM Tom_itx: right
08:05 PM andypugh: (Does that help?)
08:05 PM Tom_itx: not so much :)
08:05 PM Tom_itx: it may be a default i live with
08:06 PM Tom_itx: they do it to blend the entry point
08:30 PM Tom_itx: BeachBumPete do you know how to reorder cutter steps?
08:33 PM Tom_itx: just picky where you select it i guess...
08:39 PM BeachBumPete: not sure what you mean are you talking about F360?
08:40 PM Tom_itx: yeah, i figured it out though
08:40 PM BeachBumPete: there are several level settings in there
08:40 PM Tom_itx: i added a drill but wanted it before the cut
08:40 PM Tom_itx: i moved it
08:41 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
08:41 PM BeachBumPete: Oh you mean reorder machining operations?
08:41 PM Tom_L: only thing is, the tool numbers are backwards
08:41 PM Tom_L: can you renumber the tool list?
08:41 PM Tom_L: yes
08:41 PM BeachBumPete: I think you just drag and drop the MOPS in the tree
08:41 PM Tom_L: right
08:42 PM Tom_L: but it starts with T2 now
08:42 PM Tom_L: can you renumber those?
08:42 PM BeachBumPete: I think you can click and rename them to whatever you want
08:42 PM BeachBumPete: IE milling pocket in Ibanez JEM guitar body ;)
08:44 PM Tom_L: right but that doesn't rename the tool order
08:44 PM BeachBumPete: hmm
08:44 PM BeachBumPete: not sure
08:44 PM Tom_L: it will post ok but it will start with T2
08:45 PM CaptHindsight: looks like the Chinese are now making RF CO2 laser knockoffs https://sino-galvo.en.alibaba.com/product/60681668863-801733369/Compact_Size_Refillable_Metal_RF_CO2_Laser_Tube.html?spm=a2700.icbuShop.74.18.72995f9dslV7qV
08:46 PM CaptHindsight: looks very familiar https://www.coherent.com/lasers/laser/co2-and-co-lasers/diamond-c-series
08:47 PM CaptHindsight: I wouldn't be surprised if they say Coherent on the side as well :)
08:48 PM Tom_L: BeachBumPete, you can edit the tool list and change it in the post processor area
08:48 PM BeachBumPete: Im sure
08:49 PM BeachBumPete: its quite flexible once you figure things out.
08:49 PM Tom_L: but now it's got ! errors on both tools
08:50 PM BeachBumPete: GAAAHHHHH
08:52 PM Tom_L: but there's nothing in the error message dialog
08:52 PM Tom_L: stupid
08:58 PM Tom_L: produces some fck'd up gcode too
08:58 PM BeachBumPete: why?
08:59 PM tiwake: because ponies
08:59 PM Tom_L: ^^
09:34 PM Jymmm: roycroft: Try the shell command 'dc', it's BC but RPN based
09:36 PM roycroft: not surprising, jymmm
09:37 PM roycroft: i just checked, and it's been that way since at least 7th edition (the oldest unix manuals i still have)
09:38 PM dioz: yo. someone linked me to a video of a couple english blokes stuffing a eagle talon into a mini cooper
09:38 PM dioz: i need the link again
09:38 PM Jymmm: roycroft: you were just mentioning you like rpn clac, so passing on the info is all
09:38 PM Jymmm: calc's
09:39 PM Brigi: Hey linux CNC, with the 20% ebay code today, I'm thinking about getting a k40 watt laser cutter for $270, what do you all think?
09:39 PM roycroft: tip and cu were always the same binary, but behaved differently depending on what argv was
09:39 PM roycroft: back when disk space and memory were expensive, it was not uncommon to do things like that
09:40 PM dioz: nvm
09:40 PM dioz: it was a celica
09:40 PM dioz: that's why i couldn't find it
09:40 PM dioz: project binky
09:40 PM dioz: bad obsession motorsports
09:40 PM dioz: some primo fabrication
09:42 PM roycroft: damn, that was good
09:42 PM roycroft: i just made up a recipe for mushroom stuffed shells on the fly
09:42 PM roycroft: and i pretty much nailed it the first time
09:43 PM dioz: nailed it!
09:43 PM roycroft: i'll make some minor tweaks next time
09:43 PM dioz: like?
09:43 PM roycroft: primarily a little more red pepper flakes
09:43 PM roycroft: it just needs a wee bit more *bam*
09:43 PM dioz: some kick
09:44 PM roycroft: and since herbs are just waking up, the only fresh herb i used was parsley
09:44 PM roycroft: a bit of basil and greek oregano would help
09:44 PM dioz: send me a mini lathe and a mill for free
09:44 PM dioz: thnx
09:44 PM roycroft: i could probably have cut some oregano, but it's really not ready for that
09:44 PM dioz: i'll msg you with my address
09:45 PM roycroft: and it's still 4-6 weeks from time to plant basil
09:45 PM dioz: you grow many herbs yourself?
09:45 PM roycroft: yes
09:45 PM roycroft: of course
09:45 PM roycroft: they're too damn expensive in the stores
09:45 PM roycroft: and fresh is best
09:45 PM dioz: what other herbs you grow?
09:46 PM roycroft: standard culinary herbs - sage, basil, tarragon, several varieties of oregano and thyme, marjoram, curly parsley and italian parsley, marshmallow, lavender
09:46 PM roycroft: herbs that i us
09:47 PM dioz: is this along with your overgrow?
09:47 PM dioz: ;]
09:48 PM roycroft: e for medicinal and brewing - bog myrtle, marsh rosemary, a couple varieties of yarrow, mugwort, wormwood, burdock, alewort, mediterranean and indian coriander
09:48 PM roycroft: some thistles
09:48 PM roycroft: wintergreen
09:49 PM roycroft: several varieties of mint
09:49 PM roycroft: chamomile
09:49 PM * roycroft is sure he's forgetting a few
09:49 PM roycroft: culinary rosemary, which i grow as a topiary
09:51 PM * Jymmm thinks roycroft has been reading lord of he rings a little too much ;)
09:51 PM roycroft: i haven't read lotr for a few years, actually
09:51 PM Jymmm: or hogwarts, whatever ;)
09:51 PM roycroft: nor the harry potter books
09:52 PM Rab: /me thinks rhyming rosemary with topiary is some wicked freestyle
09:52 PM roycroft: i don't have the time to garden as i'd like
09:52 PM roycroft: so i focus on things that bring me the best return for the time and space invested
09:52 PM roycroft: herbs are definitely there
09:52 PM roycroft: broccoli not so much
09:52 PM Jymmm: mosquito plants are very hearty
09:53 PM Jymmm: hardy?
09:53 PM Jymmm: and easy to root from trimmings too
09:53 PM dioz: hardy
09:53 PM roycroft: it takes a lot of space, is prone to cole rot, and is cheap to buy at the market
09:53 PM roycroft: and doesn't really taste any different when home grown
09:53 PM dioz: do you live in a temperate climate?
09:54 PM roycroft: very much so
09:54 PM dioz: i live where it's fucking cold for half the y ear
09:54 PM dioz: with over a foot of snow on the ground
09:54 PM roycroft: i'm in zone 8.5 or so
09:54 PM dioz: oooh
09:54 PM dioz: so you probably ain't been sleddin much 'eh ;]
09:54 PM roycroft: i have a bay laurel plant in my front yard
09:54 PM roycroft: sledding is easy
09:54 PM roycroft: it's a 60 minute drive to the mountains
09:54 PM roycroft: and when i'm done sledding i just drive back down to the valley
09:55 PM dioz: gmt -6 ?
09:55 PM roycroft: -8
09:55 PM roycroft: i'm in eugene oregon
09:55 PM dioz: i assume portland
09:55 PM dioz: aah
09:55 PM roycroft: very much a maritme climate
09:55 PM dioz: close enough
09:55 PM roycroft: maritime
09:55 PM roycroft: portland has hipsters
09:55 PM roycroft: eugene has hippies
09:55 PM roycroft: *big* difference
09:55 PM dioz: yah sorry about that
09:55 PM roycroft: :)
09:56 PM dioz: i just figured you were a yank close to the rockies
09:56 PM roycroft: <-- is a hippie, and not at all a hipster
09:56 PM roycroft: eugene is inland, in between the coast range and the cascades
09:56 PM dioz: i'm gmt -6 up north
09:56 PM roycroft: i'm an hour from the coast
09:56 PM roycroft: and an hour from the crest of the cascades
09:56 PM dioz: i got a cousin and an aunt in portland
09:56 PM dioz: the cousin is very much so a hipster
09:56 PM roycroft: the coast range is pretty low - 1000m peaks
09:57 PM roycroft: and doesn't really block the maritime air flow much
09:57 PM dioz: he blocked me on facebook for making fun of liberals
09:57 PM roycroft: eugene is at 150m elevation
09:57 PM dioz: yah that's cool
09:57 PM dioz: i'm a little jealous
09:57 PM dioz: can't move though, cause of the old lady.
09:57 PM dioz: she works in an industry that's kind of shitty right now
09:58 PM dioz: and she's gotta primo job
09:58 PM roycroft: my bay laurel is 3 years old
09:58 PM roycroft: the last two winters it died back to the ground
09:58 PM roycroft: it's very cold sensitive - it's natural range extends north to the northern california coast, so i'm pushing it
09:58 PM roycroft: it's survived this winter though
09:58 PM roycroft: we've had a very mild winter
09:59 PM roycroft: i think that one more season of growth will make it pretty hardy
09:59 PM roycroft: i'm not sure if i want to grow it as a shrub or a tree yet
09:59 PM roycroft: since it's died back the past two years it hasn't mattered
09:59 PM roycroft: but this year i might have to decide
10:00 PM roycroft: bay laurel is the source of bay leaves, in case you didn't know
10:00 PM dioz: idk what it is
10:00 PM dioz: i had to google it
10:00 PM dioz: looks like hedges to me
10:01 PM roycroft: the northern reach of its natural range is sonoma county
10:01 PM dioz: but i know you can eat the leaves
10:01 PM roycroft: we have the oregon myrtle, which is closely related
10:01 PM roycroft: but myrtle only grows along the coast, not at all inland
10:01 PM roycroft: and its range is northern humboldt county to southern oregon
10:01 PM dioz: you have an acreage?
10:01 PM roycroft: well south of here
10:01 PM roycroft: no
10:01 PM roycroft: sadly
10:01 PM roycroft: 1/2 acre
10:01 PM roycroft: inside city limits
10:01 PM roycroft: i'd like to get 10 acres
10:02 PM dioz: do you have to heat your shop in winter?
10:02 PM roycroft: i need a bag of money to fall out of the sky on my head
10:02 PM roycroft: when that happens i will buy more land :)
10:02 PM roycroft: yes, i do
10:02 PM roycroft: which is why i spend a lot of my winters doing planning and cad work
10:02 PM dioz: fusion?
10:03 PM roycroft: this time of year if i want to work in the shop i have to kick the heater on a couple hours before i go out there, if i'm going after work
10:03 PM dioz: i'm in trade school again for the next 8 weeks
10:03 PM dioz: fml
10:03 PM dioz: manual drafting is so time consuming
10:03 PM roycroft: and if i want to work in the shop in the morning, i have to get up at 5:30 or 6 to turn on the heater, because it takes 3-4 hours to heat up enough to be comfortable
10:03 PM roycroft: i use autocad mostly, and solidworks
10:03 PM dioz: i had to draft a funnel by hand and do the layout
10:03 PM roycroft: i love manual drafting
10:03 PM dioz: i'll take a pic once i've darkened all the object lines
10:04 PM roycroft: i still have a nice drafting arm and a big box of scales
10:04 PM roycroft: but i had to get rid of my big drafting table - i just don't have room for it
10:04 PM dioz: i gotta little portable table
10:05 PM * roycroft wants more dinner, but decides to be good
10:05 PM roycroft: i made a big batch, with the intent of freezing the rest
10:05 PM roycroft: i don't usually come this close to nailing a new recipe the first time
10:06 PM roycroft: with both food and brewing, i plan on 3 goes before i get what i want
10:06 PM roycroft: this one is damn close on the first go, and i'm sure i'll nail it on the 2nd
10:06 PM dioz: http://ep.yimg.com/ay/draftingsteals-store/parallel-straightedge-boards-alvin-pxb-52.gif
10:07 PM dioz: something like that
10:07 PM roycroft: those work fine
10:07 PM roycroft: i started out in high school with a t-square and triangles
10:07 PM roycroft: no fancy-shmancy parallel rules like that
10:07 PM dioz: at school i use a t-square cause the tables
10:08 PM roycroft: i still have a big box of triangles and various templates ( square, rectangle, circle, oval, etc)
10:08 PM roycroft: and a set of rapid-o-graph pens
10:09 PM dioz: i use a clicky pencil for my construction lines
10:09 PM dioz: cause the graphite is super small
10:09 PM roycroft: but keep in mind that when i started drafting in high school, i had to do my calculations with a slide rule
10:09 PM dioz: then i got a 2mm graphite holder for object lines
10:09 PM dioz: slide rule ;]
10:09 PM dioz: abackus!
10:10 PM dioz: abacus
10:12 PM roycroft: i have used, and likely still own, an abacus
10:12 PM roycroft: but i have never used one for more than historical purposes
10:13 PM roycroft: i'm not quite old enough that the abacus was ever current technology in my lifetime
10:13 PM roycroft: the first ti and hp hand-held calculators came out when i was in about my 3rd year of high school
10:14 PM roycroft: but they were in the $500 range at the time
10:14 PM roycroft: which is like $2k in today's dollars
10:14 PM roycroft: so i didn't have that stuff
10:15 PM roycroft: i lusted after the hp65
10:15 PM roycroft: i really did
10:15 PM dioz: did you self learn autocad/solidworks?
10:15 PM roycroft: i've taken classes for both
10:15 PM roycroft: only one solidworks class
10:15 PM roycroft: and i'm not very proficient at solidworks
10:16 PM roycroft: i worked at a computer shop in the late '80s that were an autocad reseller
10:16 PM dioz: they're doing a trade school harmonization across the country here over the next 5 or so years
10:16 PM dioz: and i'm gonna be one of the last manual drafters going through
10:16 PM dioz: they're gonna be switching to solid works very soon
10:16 PM roycroft: and we had a trainer who was world-renowned
10:16 PM roycroft: he flew all over the globe to do trainings
10:16 PM dioz: i NEED to spend some time with one of the cad softwares
10:16 PM roycroft: and he taught me autocad back then
10:16 PM dioz: dudes keep telling me fusion
10:17 PM roycroft: then i did not use it for close to 20 years
10:17 PM dioz: but it seems solidworks is super popular
10:17 PM roycroft: so i took some uni classes when i started using it again
10:18 PM roycroft: i'm 100x more proficient at doing autocad 2d stuff than solidworks 3d
10:18 PM dioz: you pay for 'em?
10:18 PM roycroft: but i have very little experience with autocad 3d
10:18 PM roycroft: work paid for both licenses
10:18 PM dioz: right on
10:18 PM roycroft: but not for support
10:18 PM roycroft: so i have a legal autocad 2008 license and a legal solidworks 2012 license
10:18 PM roycroft: both of those work for me now
10:19 PM roycroft: if i want a newer version of either i have to cough up $5k or so
10:19 PM dioz: yah
10:19 PM dioz: i'm surprised how expensive they are
10:19 PM roycroft: and i'm not sure that makes sense for what i do
10:20 PM roycroft: i don't think they're overpriced
10:20 PM roycroft: both are pretty sophisticated software packages
10:20 PM dioz: i wouldn't say they're over-priced. i imagine they're worth the money
10:20 PM dioz: just expensive cause i'm cheap
10:21 PM roycroft: if i can make $20k more in a year buy spending $5k on software, it's as cheaper than free
10:21 PM dioz: fair enough
10:21 PM roycroft: right now that's not where i am though
10:21 PM roycroft: my main problem right now is that i don't have any cam software
10:22 PM roycroft: so whenever i finish my mill/drill cnc conversion i will have no way of converting a solidworks file to g-code
10:22 PM roycroft: i'm not sure how important that will be at first
10:22 PM roycroft: pycam will probably do most of what i need to do for a while, at least
10:23 PM dioz: what do you want?
10:23 PM dioz: i mean if you could pick whatever you wanted
10:23 PM roycroft: i do not know
10:24 PM roycroft: for starters, pycam and hand-coded g-code will probably be just fine
10:24 PM roycroft: i don't plan on running a job shop where folks send me files/drawings and i make sophisticated parts
10:25 PM dioz: i wanna shop
10:25 PM dioz: so bad
10:25 PM roycroft: my main focus is on the woodshop
10:25 PM dioz: i hate having to park on the street to work in the garage
10:25 PM roycroft: the machine shop just helps me with fixtures/jigs/parts for the woodshop
10:26 PM dioz: what kind of wood work?
10:26 PM roycroft: but i anticipate that when i do the cnc conversion of the mill/drill i'll find all sorts of neat things to do with it that i hadn't considered
10:26 PM roycroft: money making wood work :)
10:27 PM roycroft: i used to do finish carpentry for a living, then cabinetmaking for a bit
10:27 PM roycroft: my interest now is doing more artistic stuff
10:27 PM roycroft: furniture, boxes, other smalls
10:28 PM roycroft: i'm in the process right now of upgrading my shop from being able to do time-consuming one-off stuff to doing semi-production work
10:28 PM dioz: where do you get your wood?
10:28 PM roycroft: so that i can actually make money
10:29 PM roycroft: there are a couple decent hardwood lumber shops right here in eugene
10:29 PM roycroft: local native woods i can get all along the coast
10:29 PM dioz: yah i was wondering if you went pickin
10:29 PM roycroft: and there is one place in portland where i can get some relly nice exotic woods
10:29 PM dioz: or if you scrapped
10:29 PM dioz: or what
10:29 PM roycroft: i'm at a point in my life where i value quality over price
10:30 PM roycroft: i don't want to build a $300 scrapwood coffee table
10:30 PM roycroft: i want to build a $3k nice coffee table
10:30 PM dioz: fair enough
10:31 PM roycroft: no judgement there at all
10:31 PM dioz: hah. you'd be hard pressed to offend me
10:31 PM roycroft: but while my skills are a bit rusty, i've developed some pretty good skills over the past 45+ years that i've been working with wood
10:32 PM roycroft: i think i'm quite ready to produce high end stuff
10:32 PM dioz: remember to take pics
10:32 PM roycroft: i'll need to, in order to market the stuff :)
10:33 PM roycroft: i'm not going to be able to make a living doing what i want to do and selling to people just in this town
10:33 PM roycroft: i need to market at least regionally
10:34 PM dioz: got a website started?
10:34 PM roycroft: not really
10:35 PM roycroft: i'm still building machines and fixtures
10:35 PM roycroft: my goal is to start making prototype pieces by this summer
10:35 PM roycroft: and i'm pretty on track to meet that goal
10:35 PM roycroft: i still have a full-time job for now
10:36 PM dioz: you seen those 5 axis jobs they use to cut tubs out of big chunks of wood?
10:36 PM dioz: or a sink
10:36 PM dioz: 6 axis
10:36 PM roycroft: i've seen some of that
10:36 PM roycroft: i don't have much interest in or use for that
10:37 PM dioz: i just like the way they look
10:37 PM roycroft: i plan on doing a lot of mixed media stuff
10:38 PM roycroft: i had a partner for many years who was a potter and stained glass artist
10:38 PM roycroft: fairly successful at both
10:38 PM roycroft: and she taught me both disciplines
10:38 PM dioz: i've always wanted to try spinning a pot
10:38 PM roycroft: i also do leatherwork
10:38 PM roycroft: i plan on incorporating all three of those media in my woodwork
10:39 PM roycroft: i've also been learning weaving for a few years
10:39 PM roycroft: i'm getting decent at it
10:39 PM roycroft: so i could do handwoven fabrics for upholstering chairs, aetc.
10:39 PM roycroft: etc.
10:39 PM roycroft: i've taken jewelery making classes as well
10:40 PM roycroft: which is a really interesting kind of metalwork
10:40 PM dioz: you've been around the block
10:40 PM roycroft: totally differerent from machine shop stuff
10:40 PM roycroft: but still just as precise, in that totally different way
10:40 PM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
10:40 PM dioz: i feel you
10:40 PM dioz: i gotta get to bed though
10:40 PM roycroft: i'm old - i've had time to take a few spins :)
10:40 PM dioz: ttyl
10:40 PM roycroft: ciaoder
10:43 PM gloops: its all very arts and crafts this, like william morris
10:43 PM roycroft: yes, morris is one of my heroes
10:43 PM roycroft: and charles rennie mackintosh
10:43 PM roycroft: and gustav stickley
10:43 PM roycroft: and the greene brothers
10:43 PM roycroft: and the royrofters
10:43 PM gloops: im much the same with this love of crafts, its pretty bizarre though in this day and age that a lot of this is carried out with high tech machines and tools
10:44 PM gloops: or it must be, to be financially viable
10:45 PM gloops: you can make good money with purely hand crafted stuff though, you go to some shops and stalls here, the right places, hand crafted things sell for staggering amounts
10:45 PM roycroft: i have no problem using high tech machines
10:46 PM roycroft: as long as the art does not suffer because of process restrictions
10:46 PM gloops: the initial arts and crafts movement was very anti machine, that was dropped later though
10:47 PM roycroft: i think it's stupid to pay more for "hand crafted" art that is indistinguishable from "technology-assisted" art
10:47 PM gloops: so long as the machine aided the craftsman, and didnt replace or enslave him
10:48 PM roycroft: if i cut a mortise with a mortising chisel and a mallet that is no different from a mortise cut with a mortising machine i don't understand why i would do it by hand if i have the machine
10:48 PM gloops: i.e force people to become mindless machine tenders
10:48 PM roycroft: i can cut the mortise 10x faster with the machine
10:49 PM gloops: i suppose if you also made the machine...lol
10:49 PM gloops: anyway back to bed for me