#linuxcnc Logs

Mar 08 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:03 AM holzjunkie1 is now known as holzjunkie
12:31 AM pink_vampire: hi fragalot
12:31 AM fragalot: hey pink_vampire
12:32 AM pink_vampire: how bad is 0.001" runout?
12:32 AM fragalot: on what
12:32 AM pink_vampire: for 1/64" 4flout cutter
12:32 AM fragalot: bad.
12:32 AM pink_vampire: what is the smallest tool i can use?
12:33 AM fragalot: look at it this way, regardless of the cutter you use, the chip load will always be 1 thou more on one of the flutes
12:34 AM fragalot: for tiny tools, 1 thou is often already more than the actual chip load
12:34 AM fragalot: whilst it will still cut, it may chatter more, and the tool will wear faster and unevenly
12:38 AM pink_vampire: what about single flute cutter
12:41 AM fragalot: if you have the RPM
12:41 AM pink_vampire: i need rpm meter
12:41 AM fragalot: if you don't run a production shop, just run the tool like you think it should be run
12:42 AM fragalot: it may not manage to cut the 150m³ of steel it could do if there wasn't any runout, but who cares for small runs?
12:43 AM roycroft: tap it with a little silver hammer to true it up :)
12:44 AM fragalot: that certainly helps :P
12:46 AM pink_vampire: the vfd show 100hz, but 3000rpm
12:46 AM pink_vampire: i hold it in front of the g0704 rpm meter and it show 5400 rpm
12:46 AM pink_vampire: so...
12:47 AM gloops: got your scale settings right for the spindle?
12:48 AM fragalot: pink_vampire: just put in the endmill you have, put an indicator on it, and use a brass pin and a small hammer to see if you can tap it true
12:48 AM fragalot: don't overcomplicate things :-)
12:49 AM pink_vampire: i'm not going to hummer my spindle
12:49 AM gloops: im trying to get back into an artistic frame of mind, now the time for cutting approaches
12:49 AM fragalot: tap it, don't hammer...
12:50 AM fragalot: it doesn't take much to offset tools 1 thou
12:50 AM roycroft: i thought it was the tooling that had the runout
12:50 AM roycroft: it's the spindle?
12:51 AM gloops: https://static.wixstatic.com/media/7f3db8_82c6897714224e2583aa453fa1da9f65.jpg/v1/fill/w_969,h_565,al_c,q_90,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/7f3db8_82c6897714224e2583aa453fa1da9f65.jpg
12:51 AM fragalot: the forces generated by a flycutter are harder than what you'd do to gently tap out runout
12:52 AM pink_vampire: fly cutter... on that...
12:52 AM pink_vampire: no way..
12:54 AM fragalot: how consistent is the runout
12:55 AM fragalot: when you take the collet out, rotate 90° and put it back
12:55 AM gloops: i learned to make all these patterns before xmas, now forgot which apps, what order etc, nothing written down
12:55 AM gloops: theres so much involved in this it would pay to keep a written journal
12:56 AM miss0r: bleh. my mill is out of tram. Why is it i do not check this before getting started ?!
12:56 AM gloops: building this machine i never wrote single thing down, nor doing the config or anything
12:57 AM fragalot: you'd think you would have learned by now
12:57 AM miss0r: I know, right? :)
12:57 AM miss0r: a 200mm flycutter.... Made things very clear for me
12:57 AM fragalot: lol
12:58 AM fragalot: I don't think I can swing that safely on my mill
12:58 AM miss0r: worst thing is, I think the table is set at a slight angle
12:58 AM fragalot: the table, or the head?
12:58 AM miss0r: Might be both, for now i've only checked the table
12:58 AM fragalot: this is why you set machines up with a precision level when you first install them :P
12:59 AM miss0r: I had it removed a few month ago when fitting a new ballscrew to the x
12:59 AM miss0r: yeah. I do that when I am out at clients... but here at home, well... you know
12:59 AM fragalot: I do know.
12:59 AM fragalot: I just machined a new valve body for something at work.. and I really want to know what stainless grade they gave me
01:00 AM fragalot: machined like chilled butter.. loved it.
01:00 AM miss0r: that does not sound like pure 316
01:01 AM gloops: https://www.milesandlincoln.com/gallery?lightbox=dataItem-je05ainn1 these 3d maps also seem popular, i suppose it depends if you live in a place with a sexy sattelite image
01:02 AM fragalot: miss0r: it's not 316, as it's magnetically conductive
01:02 AM fragalot: (solenoid valve body)
01:02 AM gloops: a lot of place would just evoke a 'wtf is that' response
01:02 AM miss0r: ahh
01:02 AM miss0r: Good question
01:02 AM * miss0r gloves up in preperation of resetting the table
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: morning
01:03 AM gloops: howdy
01:03 AM fragalot: hi
01:05 AM miss0r: hello
01:05 AM miss0r: fragalot: Not the table... I only get 0.007mm across 400mm travel. so it 'is' off, but not enough for me to bother moving it
01:05 AM pink_vampire: IchGucksLive: hi
01:06 AM fragalot: miss0r: that much could even be wear tbh
01:06 AM pink_vampire: IchGucksLive: what is the runout on the spindles that you sell?
01:06 AM miss0r: fragalot: sure... I don't think it is thou, I gave my linear rails a once over before putting it together
01:06 AM fragalot: I've got more of a "belly" on my mill than that :P
01:07 AM miss0r: I only had 0.002mm on the rails
01:07 AM IchGucksLive: i dont sell anything
01:07 AM IchGucksLive: im a poor teacher that builds around 10-400mashines a year
01:07 AM pink_vampire: but you made cnc machines
01:07 AM miss0r: fragalot: Remember, this type of mill has the table completely supported over the complete travel of X
01:07 AM IchGucksLive: way over 70years of age
01:07 AM pink_vampire: yeah on those
01:07 AM IchGucksLive: a shame onGOV
01:08 AM fragalot: miss0r: yeah yeah yours is far superior to mine, I get it. >.> sjeesh. :D
01:08 AM IchGucksLive: pink_vampire: what do you mean bye spindle the VFD or the leadscrew
01:09 AM * fragalot => off to work
01:09 AM fragalot: ttyl
01:09 AM pink_vampire: IchGucksLive: i mean the thing the hold the cutter
01:12 AM IchGucksLive: no idee on runout
01:13 AM IchGucksLive: it is as it is
01:13 AM IchGucksLive: cheeper is better
01:13 AM IchGucksLive: 40Euros on 500W
01:13 AM IchGucksLive: max 300Euros to spend
01:13 AM pink_vampire: i want to work with 0.4mm end mill in steel
01:13 AM IchGucksLive: max 1,5Kw on powermanagment
01:14 AM IchGucksLive: good luck
01:14 AM pink_vampire: mmmm ok
01:17 AM IchGucksLive: im off i will ask my brouther if he got this info for you
01:17 AM pink_vampire: thanks :)]
01:40 AM miss0r: I thought I was going crazy tramming my spindle :D It turns out I used a 0.001mm dial inducator. and I thought its was a 0.01mm one hehe. It is pretty damn good now :D
01:45 AM miss0r: That is something that can drive you damn close to crazy
01:47 AM gloops: yes things can look pretty grim with a simple thing like that
01:48 AM miss0r: I trammed it to 0.0025 on a radius of 250
01:48 AM miss0r: mm
01:48 AM miss0r: it thought I had 0.025....
01:50 AM gloops: ill be doing mine with a pencil lol
01:53 AM gloops: finally ordered a 4mm polypropylene belt for this fretsaw, a bit dubious that a 1metre 4mm round belt will be strong enough, but thats what its made for so..
01:54 AM CaptHindsight: 2.5um vs 25um
01:55 AM miss0r: gloops: Looking forward to seeing your machine in action :D
01:56 AM gloops: its coming, any time ..in the next few weeks lol
02:00 AM gloops: i was going to have a full day on it today, somebody gave me a log burning stove and a load of railway sleepers though, so long as i collect today or tommorrow, always something comes up
02:10 AM Deejay: moin
02:11 AM pink_vampire: hi Deejay
02:11 AM Deejay: hey pink
02:47 AM miss0r: is there anything more annoying than having to do a part that is 10mm longer than your maximum travel ? :(
03:50 AM Loetmichel: miss0r: yes. when the part is 2mm longer
03:51 AM Loetmichel: had to do THAT lately: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16414
03:52 AM Loetmichel: and that: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16179&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 ... fitted the travel diagonally by 2mm ;)
03:54 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16426&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- similar enclosure, a bit shorter, and mounted.
03:55 AM gloops: or realising your limit switches were placed to snag the drag chain
04:00 AM gloops: not getting anywhere with this wiring, i need to get mad at this machine and get something done!
04:00 AM gloops: its just not happening atm
04:05 AM gloops: i was going to mount the drag on the top of the top gantry rail, actually i could make a fixture to mount it behind the lower rail, hmm
04:07 AM miss0r: nice cutout Loetmichel
04:07 AM miss0r: gloops you'll get there
04:09 AM gloops: when i was in the zone with this before id have done this in an hour, coming back to it, totally lost the pace etc, ill get it done
04:12 AM gloops: having the drag lower would allow a looser curve and miss everything else on the gantry, looks like thats the next job
04:13 AM miss0r: if only my x-carve was a little bit reliable, I could use it for this :D
04:13 AM gloops: a lot of people are using x carves, whats making it unreliable?
04:13 AM gloops: i wish id bought one lol
04:22 AM XXCoder: miss0r: solution is pretty simple
04:22 AM XXCoder: peg holes
04:23 AM XXCoder: you could cut one side, and holes in either areas that will be cut out later, or on waste border. then flip and those holes loc is known so you can program it to finish otger sude
04:23 AM XXCoder: other side
04:24 AM miss0r: oh, theres no problem. its just more work ;)
04:24 AM XXCoder: :) honestly 2 parter isnt bad
04:24 AM XXCoder: worse I had at work was 7 steps (not counting anodize and deburr)
04:25 AM miss0r: nah. a one parter is always better :D
04:27 AM XXCoder: usually yeah
04:27 AM XXCoder: work its rare to have pure one parter
04:27 AM XXCoder: its almost always 2 or 3
04:28 AM miss0r: that is true. but having to move it on each work face, that is annoying
04:29 AM XXCoder: heh sometimes we do stright run on only one step on all parts then do next, sometimes we do both A and B in same machine with 2 fixtures
04:29 AM XXCoder: sometimes 2 or more at each machine of its own at same time
04:30 AM jthornton: morning
04:32 AM XXCoder: hey
04:33 AM jthornton: and the light is on and the door opens
04:39 AM miss0r: XXCoder: That is true. I often have parts with many steps, no doubt. But usualy I have to turn the part for the other steps. I just have to move this one, because I can't reach :-/
04:39 AM XXCoder: doh
04:40 AM miss0r: I have to do a part that is 510mm long, but my mill can only be stretched to 510mm travel, so I'll need a tiny byt more to allow for tool radius :-/
04:44 AM miss0r: bbiab, I need to go get some more cigarettes
04:45 AM XXCoder: cigs cost money heh
04:57 AM Loetmichel: *muhahaha* co-woker just measured a dell xfr notebook for tempest. "all good, gets the certificate"... so it gets labeled, cleaned and juuust before packing a last look into the bios for confirmation of components.. *CPU: fits, RAM: fits, SSD: fits. Wifi:not installed, fits. BT: Installed(deactivated) ... *shitshitshit!* now he has to dismantle the thing pretty much to the last screw because
04:57 AM Loetmichel: the BT module is under the palmrest :-)
04:58 AM XXCoder: ow
04:58 AM XXCoder: some of laptops is insane on design
04:58 AM XXCoder: my aspire one laptop I would have to essentally pull it almost completely apart to upgrade ram.
04:58 AM Loetmichel: .. and then it has to be re-measured because it was open ;)
04:58 AM XXCoder: I didnt bother.
04:59 AM XXCoder: 512 mb is plenty for it lol
05:02 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kLjwUZnNRo interesting!
05:03 AM XXCoder: using minerial oil to make sanding better
05:14 AM jthornton: well crap I guess I'll reinstall debian 9 again...
05:14 AM XXCoder: what went wrong
05:14 AM jthornton: can't get phpmyadmin to work
05:15 AM XXCoder: doh
05:31 AM Loetmichel: hihi.today is the funny day it seems. Different coworker just asked:"hey guys, what can i doo when i cant see the oil level in my car? its only "caffee latte goo" on the dipstick, you cant see any level!"... $me: "show me please"... and behold: not a single drop of black oil on the whole dipstick, only light brown mud... head gasket blown... that will be expensive. and he only bought that
05:32 AM Loetmichel: 2004 merc a-calss lath month for 2400 eur...
05:33 AM XXCoder: https://woodgears.ca/gear_cutting/template.html fun to play with
05:33 AM XXCoder: contact angle -100 lol
05:39 AM Tom_L: Loetmichel probably cost that much to fix it ehh?
05:40 AM Tom_L: or return it
05:43 AM Loetmichel: yeah, something between 1000 and 3000 eur for a head gasket repair
05:44 AM XXCoder: assuming its not crcked case
05:46 AM Loetmichel: would be unusual for that small case
05:47 AM Loetmichel: its only a 1.4 liter 4cylinder petrol engine
05:49 AM holzjunkie: hy
06:02 AM gloops: better off getting second hand engine usually
06:02 AM gloops: or crush it and move on
06:06 AM holzjunkie: did anyone knows who´s the owner off the mesanet.com shop???
06:07 AM gloops: not sure, could JT-Shop
06:07 AM gloops: be
06:11 AM holzjunkie: and the mesaus.com
06:11 AM gloops: pcw-mesa possibly, one or the other, i think jthornton maybe also
06:12 AM gloops: after mesa products then holz?
06:14 AM holzjunkie: Im searching for an shop with an good price for the 7i80db and 7i77 incl. shipping to Germany
06:15 AM gloops: i think fragalot got one to belgium
06:20 AM holzjunkie: he has an shop to ?
06:23 AM Loetmichel: gloops: nope, i told him to kick the seller in the butt
06:23 AM Loetmichel: its only one month in his posession
06:23 AM Loetmichel: and the seller cant even say he didnt know, checking the oil before selling a car is mandatory
06:24 AM gloops: any warranty? doubt head gasket will be covered
06:24 AM gloops: could have been thrashing it
06:25 AM gloops: fragalot hasnt got a shop, he bought one and got it shipped to belgium ok
06:31 AM Loetmichel: gloops: private seller. Nontheless: he was asked "any known problems"... so the seller lied. -> fraud, he has to take the car back
06:31 AM Loetmichel: or pay the repair
06:32 AM Loetmichel: is was more surprised that the coworker didnt know that "caramel fudge" on the dipstick means serious motor problems to say the least
06:33 AM Loetmichel: he thought nothing of it other than be angered that he couldnt get the oil level
06:34 AM Loetmichel: s/angered/annoyed
07:10 AM gloops: well, i dont think he has much of a case after 1 month Loetmichel, head gasket can go any time, and nothing to say the private seller was an expert - he might have known anything was wrong with it either, there wont be anything signed to say it was in good order
07:13 AM gloops: thing with head gasket on modern cars, the labour costs of doing the job soon catch up with a salvage engine and fitting it
07:14 AM gloops: and if hes run it with emulsion, who knows whats next
07:18 AM gloops: father in law had one years ago, he didnt know much so was taking advice from all comers, i found him an accident damaged car with same engine £250 - nope, he had the gasket changed, about 3 flushes and oil changes later the head was rattling like a sewing machine, recon head next - it was never right again
07:25 AM Tom_L: holzjunkie, jthornton will fix you up
07:26 AM Tom_L: mesaus.com
07:27 AM holzjunkie: Tom_L: but he has not the 7i80db in his Shop he only sell the 7i80hd
07:29 AM jthornton: holzjunkie, I can get you one on my next stock order
07:29 AM holzjunkie: when will it be ?
07:29 AM holzjunkie: hy JT
07:30 AM jthornton: I have one placed now but have not seen that it is shipped yet
07:31 AM holzjunkie: and how long will it take till you get ?
07:32 AM jthornton: takes about a 4 days
07:32 AM holzjunkie: that would be greatfull
07:33 AM holzjunkie: can you please try to add it in your order ???
07:33 AM jthornton: I have to check to see if they have shipped my current order or not
07:36 AM jthornton: I'll check in a bit
07:37 AM holzjunkie: I am very grateful to you
07:39 AM holzjunkie: i´m afk for an hour or to now send me an pm for Details i´ll answer when i´m back
08:27 AM gloops: a dozen or so wires to connect up and a few holes to drill seems like running a marathon right now lol
09:02 AM IchGucksLive: hi
09:03 AM IchGucksLive: FREECAD 018 Trochoidal MILLING https://youtu.be/3dKafe1KXrE
09:04 AM IchGucksLive: just finished first shut within last hr
09:06 AM gregcnc_: wouldn't you want climb milling?
09:06 AM IchGucksLive: isent it
09:07 AM IchGucksLive: oh conventionell
09:07 AM IchGucksLive: good idee to set this as option
09:08 AM IchGucksLive: gregcnc_: set the default to HOBBY or industrial
09:08 AM gregcnc_: no idea I just thought conventional was odd for that strategy
09:09 AM IchGucksLive: what woudt you call it as a BOOL
09:09 AM IchGucksLive: gregcnc_: otherwise i need to work arount
09:12 AM IchGucksLive: gregcnc_: spellchack obj.addProperty("App::PropertyEnumeration", "ClimbOrConvencional", "Path", QtCore.QT_TRANSLATE_NOOP("Path_DressupLeadInOut", "The Style of LeadIn the Path"))
09:13 AM gregcnc_: conventional
09:21 AM enleth: IchGucksLive: honestly, I'd make it an enum just to get explicit and unambiguous meaning of the possible values
09:22 AM enleth: even if there are only two
09:22 AM IchGucksLive: i did
09:23 AM IchGucksLive: obj.addProperty("App::PropertyEnumeration", "ClimbOrConventional", "Path", QtCore.QT_TRANSLATE_NOOP("Path_DressupTrochoidal", "Mill Direction"))
09:23 AM IchGucksLive: obj.ClimbOrConventional = ["Climb", "Conventional"]
09:36 AM gloops: keep up the good works Ichs
09:39 AM gloops: freecad will be better than solidworks by the time im cutting
09:48 AM * roycroft needs to sit down and give freecad a serious go soon
09:59 AM JT-Shop: holzjunkie: I can get that board
10:47 AM gloops: EU demands £2.4bn in unpaid customs duties from UK over Chinese fashion imports < funny i got a bill for duty on my stuff
10:50 AM roycroft: sounds like the uk have been collecting duty on imported gods, some or all of which was supposed to go to the eu, and never paid it
10:50 AM roycroft: goods
10:50 AM roycroft: i'm not sure the uk imports gods :)
10:51 AM roycroft: i think one is at least enough for most brits
10:55 AM gloops: well so long as they dont try charging me again ill let them sort it out
10:56 AM Loetmichel: gloops: the coworker has a written contract which says "no known problems".
10:56 AM roycroft: i don't think the eu would demand that individual brits would have to send money to brussels
10:57 AM gloops: worth a go Loetmichel
10:57 AM gloops: roycroft maybe not, but the british treasury wouldnt think twice heh
10:57 AM Loetmichel: and it isnt so much emulsion, more like "bondo" putty before it hardenes (in colour and consistency)
10:57 AM roycroft: that would be between you and the british treasury, not between you and the eu
10:58 AM Loetmichel: i pulled our the (flat) dipstick and it was perfectly round and milky brown up to about half of it
10:59 AM Loetmichel: looked like a small sausage
10:59 AM Loetmichel: had to wipe that off to even FIND the plastic part with the level markings on the lower end
11:00 AM gloops: gonna be some blockages probably? breather pipes and stuff like that not so bad, but big end bearings different matter
11:01 AM holzjunkie: JT-Shop: thats realy great
11:02 AM holzjunkie: how should i order
12:03 PM IchGucksLive: hi
12:03 PM holzjunkie: hi
12:04 PM fragalot: hey IchGucksLive
12:04 PM IchGucksLive: ich fummel am freecad rumm damit wirbelfräsen geht
12:04 PM IchGucksLive: hi fragalot
12:05 PM IchGucksLive: fragalot: did you see my nee Freecad improve
12:05 PM holzjunkie: cool idea
12:05 PM IchGucksLive: https://youtu.be/3dKafe1KXrE
12:05 PM IchGucksLive: its up and compiling at the moment
12:07 PM IchGucksLive: compile success
12:17 PM fragalot: IchGucksLive: well done :D
12:18 PM IchGucksLive: ROFL
12:31 PM gloops: looking more like spring, 16C forecast
12:34 PM Loetmichel: my thermomenter says 11.0°C outside atm
12:35 PM Loetmichel: and its dark already
12:47 PM gloops: dark just after 6 here
12:47 PM IchGucksLive: i Filed the Commit lets see how it comes out
12:48 PM holzjunkie: did it also work in pockets?
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: im off Brain needs rest after all this SIN Cos and Tangentes
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: holzjunkie: i do my very BEST
12:54 PM gloops: wonder if i could get this on my lathe https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Myford-Drumond-Top-Slide/232685823679?
12:59 PM gloops: as not really seeing how that fits
12:59 PM fragalot: seems to just clamp into a T-slot?
12:59 PM fragalot: it looks very odd cantilevered like that
01:00 PM gloops: just that bolt end holding it flat, yeah
01:00 PM gloops: yeah, not like mine, could maybe adapt it, mines got a lot finer dial too
01:01 PM fragalot: I only ever use the dial to rough it in
01:02 PM fragalot: angle blocks & indicator if it's a critical angle.. though i've taken my compound off of my lathe and haven't had to put it back for nearly a year now
01:02 PM gloops: yeah, wouldnt make much difference, handy to go close back to a position i suppose
01:03 PM gloops: i think thats intended to fit straight on the cross slide, mines got another mounting casting below that
01:07 PM gloops: http://www.lathes.co.uk/drummond/img10.gif
01:31 PM gloops: would make a z for something though is 3 inch travel is enough
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: https://openbuilds.com/uploadfiles/Part%20Specs/OpenBuilds%c2%ae%20Actuator%20Tests_V2.pdf
01:40 PM fragalot: are those repeatability units in µm?
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: why is their repeatability and accuracy so poor?
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: no mm
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: they use polymer rollers on their cam bearings
01:41 PM CaptHindsight: http://cdn8.bigcommerce.com/s-itwgldve/images/stencil/608x608/products/263/2546/cbeam_xlarge_gantry_plate_i_w_1__27457.1510416072.jpg?c=2
01:41 PM fragalot: that is horrendous
01:41 PM CaptHindsight: thank you, we are proud of our specs
01:42 PM CaptHindsight: wooden beams and dovetails would be as accurate
01:42 PM fragalot: it's almost as if the machines weren't ever buttoned up
01:43 PM fragalot: even if you used fishtank tubing and standard M6 threaded rods directly on a stepper at least your repeatabillity should be higher
01:43 PM CaptHindsight: http://openbuildspartstore.com/machine-bundles/
01:45 PM CaptHindsight: my side still hurt from laughing when you asked about um
01:45 PM gloops: accuracy .091 - c7 screws claim .05 thats in the ball park of what to expect?
01:45 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: :D
01:47 PM gloops: £700 with no electrics, 30x12 inch with 1 inch z cut heh
01:49 PM gregcnc_: looks like backlash? The test is poorly described
01:50 PM gloops: motor/drivers £150, spindle/vfd £150 various sundries say £100 £1100 for a 30x12 with very limited height
01:50 PM CaptHindsight: backlash, preload, um, there yah go with all those upidty overbuilt elitist terms again :)
01:51 PM gregcnc_: oh sorry wouldn't want to bring reality into this
01:52 PM gregcnc_: i think I found some bedtime reading material https://www.amazon.com/Precision-Machine-Design-Alexander-Slocum/dp/0872634922
01:52 PM gloops: 8mm *leadscrews* they are a few £s each with nut and pillow blocks
01:53 PM gloops: theyre designed for 3d printers
01:54 PM fragalot: even 3D printers require higher accuracy than .1mm to get decent results
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: I have some like that with brass nuts with less than 2mm of lash
01:54 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: did you mean µm?
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: ~$10 on ebay, I thought it was a joke when it arrived
01:55 PM gloops: i got one a metre long, didnt use it in the end, i have found its pretty good for poking leaves out of drains though
01:55 PM fragalot: lol
02:01 PM CaptHindsight: my not rooted yet phone with automatic updates updated itself a few hours ago
02:01 PM CaptHindsight: automatic updates were off
02:02 PM gloops: so..lets say another £150 for screws, a new z and bridge columns, £100 - we're at £1350
02:02 PM CaptHindsight: guess they don't like that
02:03 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: obviously you still want the major updates
02:05 PM gloops: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/sickening-discovery-54-human-hands-12152057
02:05 PM CaptHindsight: in uhmerica phones tells you what updates you want
02:08 PM fragalot: gloops: when the first guy found it, asked the first passer-by he saw "hey, do you need a hand?"
02:08 PM fragalot: and that's why one of the 54 was outside of the bag
02:10 PM gregcnc_: oops clicked a nyccnc that looked interesting and reminded myself why I can't handle watching
02:10 PM fragalot: lol
02:10 PM fragalot: which one?
02:10 PM gregcnc_: maritool, they are semi local
02:11 PM gloops: i suspect the rest of the meat was sold in pies
02:12 PM fragalot: in the local barber shop?
02:12 PM gloops: sweeney todd style? maybe
02:13 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.aniwaa.com/best-professional-desktop-sls-3d-printers/ all under $11K
02:13 PM gloops: russia is a big place, people come and go, nobody would even notice
02:13 PM CaptHindsight: a decent laser costs $11K
02:14 PM CaptHindsight: they must be using cheap Chinaco tubes or laser diodes
02:14 PM fragalot: are the china tubes that bad?
02:14 PM CaptHindsight: and of course no real specs except for Z axis
02:15 PM fragalot: bearing in mind that these printers are geared towards printing the odd prototype, and not really continuous production runs
02:15 PM CaptHindsight: china tube maybe 100's to 1k hours, rf tube >10K hrs
02:15 PM fragalot: >10x the price too though?
02:16 PM fragalot: looking at it from a hobby user perspective.. (eg. labor is free)
02:16 PM CaptHindsight: I guess they don't really mention how long the printer lasts
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: or accuracy of build, temps of the oven etc etc
02:19 PM fragalot: the Lisa uses a 5W IR diode
02:19 PM fragalot: https://www.sinterit.com/sinterit-lisa/
02:19 PM fragalot: tiny build area
02:19 PM fragalot: 12 month warranty, even though in EU they are required to give 24months (excluding industrial sales)
02:20 PM fragalot: very cheap though at €5000
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: no mention of wavelength either
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: might be 1064nm
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: max temp 190C with no mention of temp accuracy
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: so once again the $ are in the materials not the printer
02:25 PM fragalot: read the little print
02:25 PM fragalot: "these devices only work with proprietary material blends"
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: 5W is cheap and slow
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: what people really print is Nylon 6/6 and similar
02:26 PM fragalot: if it manages to print a build chamber in less than 24hrs i'd be fine with that
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: I should make one that uses powder coatings
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: or at least show how to use powder coatings in these cheapo SLS printers
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: formlabs has one for $11k, maybe a LCNC controller board swap for that
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: https://ibin.co/2rpPhrOPJ89r.jpg Nobel1 $1100 SLA converted to LCNC
02:31 PM fragalot: I think you've showed me that one before
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: wasn't sure, another low cost option
02:32 PM XXCoder: SLA 3d printer eh
02:37 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: for convert to mill or something?
02:38 PM fragalot: why would you do that
02:38 PM XXCoder: because lcnc dont support few gcodes required for 3d printing
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: https://imagebin.ca/v/3uCnU8iIUJnt SLA using Mesa and LCNC in place of the controller
02:39 PM XXCoder: interesting
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: the earlier link shows the same printer converted to LCNC with a DLP projector
02:40 PM XXCoder: is it after or before hands link?
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: https://imagebin.ca/v/3uCoGX83Kote still as a laser and galvo but with LCNC for control
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: https://ibin.co/2rpPhrOPJ89r.jpg
02:42 PM XXCoder: oh I see it now. I already saw it, thought it was regular unconverted one, but saw drivers on side
02:46 PM XXCoder: so what is it converted to or is it just to make it run on linuxcnc and MESA?
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: which codes are not supported?
02:46 PM XXCoder: mostly related to heat sensors but thats mostly for FSM so dunno for SLA
02:47 PM XXCoder: pink_vampire once made one work simply by stripping heat gcodes and manually set heat control herself
02:48 PM fragalot: "FSM" ?
02:48 PM XXCoder: more common type, the filiment type
02:49 PM fragalot: FDM.
02:49 PM XXCoder: ah yes, thanks
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: yeah the slicers are usually configured for some known broken firmware and *duino
02:49 PM XXCoder: heh so far those firmwares suck
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: FDM = FFF
02:50 PM XXCoder: did you know some firmwares convert g2 g3 (gcodes slicers dont ever use) into segements of g1 internally?
02:51 PM fragalot: I'm actually quite content with my RAMPS setup running marlin version godknowswhichone
02:51 PM fragalot: I pop an STL file into slic3r, it shits out a file which the printer reads from an SD card, and out comes a usable part
02:52 PM fragalot: in a tenth of the time that the stratasys 1200es does at work
02:57 PM XXCoder: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2818405 nice post-processing
02:57 PM XXCoder: bondo apparently works.
03:12 PM gloops: From Bush 1 to present, our Country has lost more than 55,000 factories, 6,000,000 manufacturing jobs and accumulated Trade Deficits of more than 12 Trillion Dollars. Last year we had a Trade Deficit of almost 800 Billion Dollars.
03:14 PM CaptHindsight: nah they just relocated to China
03:14 PM gloops: is it possible to prosper dragging a trade deficit like that?
03:15 PM CaptHindsight: is it possible to prosper with leaders that make this happen?
03:15 PM CaptHindsight: it's good to be the king
03:16 PM gloops: well you have one that seems to want to reverse it now
03:16 PM CaptHindsight: nah, he flip flops on everything
03:16 PM CaptHindsight: he is in it for himself
03:17 PM XXCoder: trump? does he even HAVE a position? besides himself?
03:17 PM gloops: the western world seems to be agreeing with him
03:17 PM XXCoder: he can't flipflop if he ranges all over
03:17 PM CaptHindsight: hey look over there, a cat CNCing a gun
03:18 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: I remember video where trump was having debate... with past himself. most of em was recent enough that he looked same...
03:18 PM CaptHindsight: followed by her look boobies, and then hey lets put a tariff on something
03:19 PM XXCoder: one thing that made me cringe... apparently he has habit of standing up and leaving in middle of meeting with one of world leaders
03:19 PM XXCoder: no patence
03:20 PM CaptHindsight: it's a negotiation tactic
03:20 PM XXCoder: for what?
03:20 PM CaptHindsight: lets make a deal
03:21 PM CaptHindsight: constant distraction
03:21 PM gloops: itsd also a show of strength
03:21 PM XXCoder: not all meetings is related to making a deal or negotiation.
03:21 PM gloops: he doesnt need it, they do
03:21 PM CaptHindsight: it's like negotiating with a circus
03:21 PM XXCoder: goverment isnt a business
03:22 PM CaptHindsight: is to him
03:22 PM XXCoder: yep
03:24 PM gloops: `so you disagree with his point re trade deficits?
03:25 PM CaptHindsight: I agree that we have a circus clown as a leader
03:25 PM roycroft: don't insult circus clowns
03:26 PM CaptHindsight: most in NY know that he's a con man
03:26 PM XXCoder: yeah they are digified in their profession
03:26 PM gloops: he was elected
03:26 PM roycroft: and a very bad one at that, capthindsight
03:26 PM CaptHindsight: it's taking the rest of states a few more years to realize this
03:27 PM roycroft: getting elected means nothing more than having been elected
03:27 PM roycroft: it does not make a person good, bad, or anything else
03:27 PM gloops: uk voted for brexit
03:28 PM XXCoder: "wonderful"
03:28 PM roycroft: yeah, there are idiots in bothh of our countries
03:28 PM roycroft: tell me somthing i did not already know
03:28 PM gloops: italy has just voted for the northern league, the northern league was the group that carried on fighting for the nazis after mussolini abdicated
03:28 PM XXCoder: roycroft: so they voted yes again to brexit?
03:28 PM roycroft: there was no second referendum
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: run Melania run
03:29 PM gloops: this model is not working
03:29 PM roycroft: trump got elected because we have the asshole party and the dumbass party in this country
03:30 PM roycroft: the asshole party blocked any attempt by the dumbass party to do anything good, because the dumbass party are dumbasses
03:30 PM CaptHindsight: two very powerful parties
03:30 PM roycroft: so people got tired of that and decided to give the asshole party another go
03:30 PM CaptHindsight: they have no limits
03:31 PM roycroft: they did not realise they were electing The Mother of All Dumbasses(tm)
03:31 PM XXCoder: mother? he wouldnt like being called that lol
03:31 PM roycroft: who is also The Mother of All Assholes(tm)
03:31 PM gloops: would you like to see 6000 000 manufacturing jobs restored?
03:31 PM roycroft: he is the worst of both parties
03:31 PM roycroft: i would like to see a lot of manufacturing jobs restored
03:32 PM roycroft: but this steel and aluminium tariff is going to restore ~11,000 jobs and destroy hundreds of thousands of other jobs
03:32 PM gloops: whats the best way to achieve that?
03:33 PM roycroft: fair trade policies and ending the carbon subsidy that makes it artifically cheap to import heavy goods
03:33 PM roycroft: not stupid tariffs that will start a global trade war and a global recession/depression
03:33 PM roycroft: the last time we has a president start a trade war was in 1929 - a guy named herbert hoover did that
03:33 PM roycroft: and that did not turn out so well
03:33 PM roycroft: he was also our last "businessman" president
03:34 PM gloops: reagan did a lot of tariffing
03:34 PM roycroft: before the current idiot
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: USA https://www.thomhartmann.com/sites/default/files/Historical%20US%20tax%20rates.png
03:34 PM roycroft: and caused the biggest recession to date since the great deprssion
03:34 PM XXCoder: ah yes, the gop "hero"
03:34 PM roycroft: and raised taxes
03:34 PM roycroft: and killed jobs
03:35 PM XXCoder: yeah reagan was hell on usa
03:35 PM CaptHindsight: https://cdn.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/issues/2011/06/img/charticle0627112.jpg
03:35 PM roycroft: but he was far too "liberal" for today's asshole party
03:35 PM roycroft: he would have to run as a dumbass if he were alive now
03:35 PM XXCoder: roycroft: he was first of ayd rand supporter president
03:35 PM roycroft: he used to be in the dumbass party
03:35 PM roycroft: then he switched to the asshole party
03:36 PM XXCoder: I would support GOP pre-reagan, their views is very sane. if it was new gop and old gop competiting I would vote for old gop
03:36 PM roycroft: i'm not sure i'd "support" the pre-reagan gop
03:37 PM XXCoder: I normally would not
03:37 PM roycroft: but i never thought that the party were anti-americans back then
03:37 PM XXCoder: but they actually support workers back then. pro-union, pro-fair wages
03:37 PM roycroft: the modern gop hates americans - it's a corporatist party, not an american party
03:38 PM roycroft: the modern dumbass party love americans, but are too stupid to realise that they're also corporatists
03:38 PM XXCoder: heh I remember reading older science fiction book, apparently one of GOP supporters wrote it, it had author tract, and it was old GOP. it was pretty good
03:38 PM SpeedEvil: ringo?
03:38 PM SpeedEvil: pournelle?
03:38 PM XXCoder: ringo possiblky
03:40 PM XXCoder: seriously, fuck ayd rand. wish she failed to immigrate to usa
03:48 PM XXCoder: seriosuly graphete seem to be magical so far
03:48 PM XXCoder: they found a way to make very thin capactor out of em
03:48 PM XXCoder: just needed 2 single atom layers offset in rotation to each other
03:49 PM XXCoder: and they apparently found a way to make ultralow power battery with it. head of pen sized layered graphete battery would be able to power pacemaker
03:50 PM XXCoder: they didnt say where power come from, I wonder if tis from decaying structure or maybe it acciently taps into vacuum power
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: Rand and Idiocracy pretty much set the road map
03:52 PM XXCoder: maybe. life isnt set on rock
03:53 PM XXCoder: https://futurism.com/graphene-superconductor-scientists-dreamed/
03:53 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: idiocracy is pretty dreadful, but also pretty close to what will (imho) happen
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: has, is and will :)
03:54 PM XXCoder: it won't automically happen
03:54 PM XXCoder: after all people may turn around
03:54 PM XXCoder: or maybe some other country attacks before it happens
03:54 PM Loetmichel: XXCoder: sounds like whisful thinking
03:55 PM XXCoder: idiotacy seems to ignore the fact that other countries exist
03:55 PM Loetmichel: nope
03:55 PM Loetmichel: it ignores borders entirely
03:55 PM gloops: ayn rand was actually quite a positive optimistic philosopher
03:55 PM XXCoder: Loetmichel: nah just realist. we are not on rail to certainity
03:55 PM Loetmichel: other countrys are not inherently better
03:55 PM CaptHindsight: Canandana, Mexicanida etc etc
03:55 PM XXCoder: we may change. we may not
03:55 PM XXCoder: like I said, nothing is certain, or written on stone
03:56 PM Loetmichel: maybe not THAT advanced on that path, but the tendencys show in other countrys as well
03:57 PM CaptHindsight: thanks now this is stuck in my head https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYQ8-CsFnns Idiocracy Nuevos Tiempos
04:01 PM roycroft: ayn rand was a narcissistic, classist, hateful, despicable excuse for a human
04:02 PM roycroft: there was nothing positive about her views at all, other than that they were positively deplorable
04:03 PM gloops: My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
04:03 PM gloops: [info][add][mail][note]
04:03 PM gloops: Ayn Rand
04:05 PM XXCoder: roycroft: what ayd did to her husband was pretty awful
04:05 PM gloops: heroic in this sense means like say Odysseus
04:05 PM XXCoder: expecially near his death
04:05 PM gloops: life as a personal quest or adventure
04:06 PM CaptHindsight: well it's a free country :)
04:06 PM roycroft: her concept of "personal happiness" was "i'm going to do whatever i want, and fuck everyone else"
04:07 PM roycroft: she was the textbook definition of a narcissist
04:07 PM XXCoder: also, monsterous greed is good
04:07 PM gloops: she didnt say that
04:07 PM jelly-home is now known as jelly
04:07 PM roycroft: not in as many words
04:07 PM roycroft: but that is what she believed
04:07 PM XXCoder: not bluntly oyut like that no
04:07 PM roycroft: and that's certainly what her followers believe
04:09 PM gloops: productive achievement as his noblest activity - thats a good one
04:10 PM gloops: and reason as his only absolute (not scriptures or tradition etc)
04:10 PM CaptHindsight: well when it ends up that most of your leaders think this way, now what do you do?
04:11 PM gloops: well Rand was anti-government
04:11 PM roycroft: don't forget things like "the ego is virtuous selfishness"
04:11 PM roycroft: she was for very limited government
04:11 PM roycroft: government only serving to protect her "freedoms"
04:11 PM CaptHindsight: "don't tell me what to do"
04:12 PM roycroft: she had utter contempt for the concept of "the common good"
04:12 PM roycroft: only "what's good for me" mattered
04:12 PM roycroft: she had no empathy, no real regard for anyone but herself
04:12 PM roycroft: and believed that everyone should be that way
04:12 PM gloops: she believed that she was the best person to decide what was good for her
04:12 PM roycroft: no
04:12 PM gloops: there is no such thing as the common good - we are not all the same
04:13 PM roycroft: she believed that she was the *only* person who was allowed to decided *anything* for her
04:13 PM roycroft: i had a pretty poor opinion of you already, gloops
04:13 PM gloops: its basically utilitarianism, centuries old dogma by then
04:14 PM roycroft: but if you're turning out to be a randian my opinion will be even lower
04:14 PM roycroft: not that you would care
04:14 PM gloops: those arent my beliefs roycroft, im just stating some of rands ideas
04:18 PM CaptHindsight: gloops we are in many ways the same, requiring air, food and water
04:18 PM roycroft: i guess the real, fundamental problem i have with the right is that i try to live by what is i suppose, a variant of the golden rule:
04:18 PM CaptHindsight: that the point of the common good or commons
04:18 PM roycroft: treat people, all people, regardless of race, creed. religion, gender, whatever, decently
04:18 PM gloops: there are exptremes of individualism, and there are extremes of collectivism
04:19 PM roycroft: and what i see from the right wing, and ironically, especially the evangelical "christians", is : we're ok, fuck everyone else - they are inferior and do not deserve to live amongst us"
04:19 PM gloops: CaptHindsight yes that was the position of the early liberals, who were just as hedonistic and individualist as rand
04:19 PM roycroft: randianism takes that the extreme of "i'm ok - fuck everyhone else"
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: define "early liberals"
04:20 PM * roycroft doesn't consider himself a "liberal", btw
04:20 PM gloops: there are some things in which, if we collaborate as individuals, the maximum sum achieved is greater for all
04:20 PM gloops: Jeremey Bentham, JS Mill
04:20 PM Deejay: gn8
04:23 PM CaptHindsight: gloops not sure what your point is to bring up 19th century philosophers
04:24 PM CaptHindsight: I know a guy that thinks he is a god
04:25 PM gloops: Nature has placed mankind under the government of two sovereign masters, pain and pleasure... they govern us in all we do, in all we say, in all we think: every effort we can make to throw off our subjection, will serve but to demonstrate and confirm it.
04:25 PM gloops: im just saying, Rand wasnt saying anything new, she said it in a more provocative way maybe
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: now I have "Master and servant" playing in my head
04:30 PM Connor: Someone was saying you have to be careful what type of Plasma cutter you get when putting together a CNC plasma.. I was unsure what they where talking about.. something about the way it starts up?? Anyone know anything about this ?
04:32 PM gloops: you cant have one that needs 'striking'
04:34 PM Connor: I wasn't sure what he was talking about.. maybe something about inverter vs switching..
04:35 PM gloops: well i dont know, someone probably will
04:35 PM roycroft: right, you don't want a scratch start torch
04:37 PM roycroft: if you're looking at getting one, connor, the one i recently sold is pretty widely used for cnc applications
04:37 PM roycroft: https://www.everlastgenerators.com/product/plasma/powerplasma-50s
04:37 PM roycroft: that's what i had
04:37 PM roycroft: i did not use it for cnc
04:37 PM Connor: the space already has a plasma cutter.. I just trying to make sure it'll work when we go cnc
04:38 PM roycroft: oh, i see
04:38 PM Connor: Okay, so, yea, they have IGBT DC and MOSFET DC.. does that make any difference when you go to CNC?
04:38 PM roycroft: does the one at the maker space have a cnc port?
04:38 PM Connor: maybe it was about blowing up controllers because of the wrong type..
04:39 PM roycroft: igbt is a bit cleaner power
04:39 PM CaptHindsight: Connor: no, it's just 2 ways to skin a cat
04:39 PM roycroft: but mosfet will work
04:39 PM Connor: roycroft: I don't think it does.. it's a bit old.. 10 or so years..
04:39 PM roycroft: but that makes no difference for interfacing with a cnc controller
04:39 PM CaptHindsight: <--- will only use decades old metaphors today
04:39 PM Connor: I dunno.. it was a few months ago and I was confused by the whole thing..
04:40 PM roycroft: the cnc port lets you control the torch from your cnc computer
04:40 PM roycroft: if it doesn't have a cnc port you can control movement with the computer, but you have to manually control the torch
04:40 PM Connor: is that now what a touch height control is for?
04:40 PM roycroft: in part
04:42 PM * roycroft is very happy we're not talking about ayan rand any more :)
04:44 PM CaptHindsight: terrible dancer by the way
04:44 PM CaptHindsight: so I've heard
07:13 PM jesseg_ is now known as Jesse2AK