#linuxcnc Logs

Mar 05 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:22 AM TurBoss: got t
12:25 AM TurBoss: :D
12:25 AM fragalot: t?
12:45 AM TurBoss: got it
12:45 AM fragalot: it?
12:49 AM IchGucksLive: morning
12:49 AM IchGucksLive: and the oscar goes to
12:49 AM IchGucksLive: unknown
12:49 AM fragalot: lol
12:49 AM XXCoder: oscar goes to oscar
12:49 AM fragalot: at least this time they can't give it to the wrong person?
12:50 AM IchGucksLive: Why is the envelope not presented to the auditorium and public
12:51 AM IchGucksLive: best this year shortest speech wins a jetski
12:51 AM fragalot: because the whole idea behind oscars is to praise themselves?
12:51 AM IchGucksLive: thats why it is a acadamy award
12:52 AM IchGucksLive: im off lots of work here around the house after winter hase gone for a break
12:52 AM IchGucksLive: later
12:53 AM TurBoss: morning XXCoder
12:53 AM XXCoder: yo
01:02 AM * TurBoss leaves
02:25 AM Deejay: moin
02:35 AM gloops: roll on summer!
03:19 AM Loetmichel2: *grrr* Just got a delivery of a piece of sheet aluminium. 600*400*8mm... Unpacked, cut myself. *bleed* *bandaid applied*... I think i will NEVER learn that those saw cuts are sharp as hell :-(
04:16 AM XXCoder: watching robrenz lap rock
04:17 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm0QerRvtJQ
04:31 AM jthornton: morning
04:31 AM XXCoder: hey jt
04:37 AM holzjunkie: Guten morgen liebe sorgen ich bin auch schon wieder da
04:37 AM holzjunkie: good morning lovly problem´s i am already there to ;-)
04:45 AM TurBoss: monin
05:15 AM holzjunkie: TurBoss: we are the onlyone ???
05:15 AM TurBoss: where?
05:15 AM holzjunkie: here
05:16 AM TurBoss: no
05:17 AM TurBoss: there are 232 other guys
05:17 AM holzjunkie: bot they are all offline
05:41 AM Tom_L: morning
05:44 AM TurBoss: o/
06:07 AM gloops: not much old equipment around on ebay atm, hmm
06:18 AM miss0r: First measurements for the machine upgrade is done. Now for some machining
06:18 AM miss0r: gloops: Have you got your machine running yet?
06:18 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Taylor-Hobson-Printing-Press-Machine/162922777317? < that is not even fetching its scrap iron value yet though
06:19 AM gloops: miss0r have had it running yeah, taken the wiring off though to do a proper shielded wiring job on it, its not far from being ready again
06:20 AM gloops: now got van issues to sort, hopefully today
06:20 AM miss0r: Looking forward to seeing a video of the first cut
06:20 AM gloops: so am i lol, i think it should be fine, aimed for 200 ipm +, X axis will only do 165ipm as it is though, i can live with that
06:23 AM miss0r: That doesn't sound too bad
06:24 AM gloops: its not brilliant for a large work area but ok, if it cuts well ill get some closed loop steppers for the X - its only lack of power thats holding it back
06:24 AM gloops: what machine are you upgrading miss0r?
06:25 AM miss0r: A TS 202, diamond ID saw. I'm building an automatic extractor to collect the cuttoffs
06:26 AM gloops: thats a stihl saw for a cut off saw?
06:26 AM miss0r: Theres a picture of one here: http://www.brunnermachine.co.uk/New_website/Slicingx.html
06:27 AM gloops: ahh right
06:27 AM gloops: is that yours or a job youre doing for someone?
06:27 AM miss0r: A job I'm doing for someone. I don't own that expensive equipment :]
06:27 AM gloops: nice piece of kit
06:28 AM miss0r: Indeed
06:28 AM miss0r: But pricy
06:29 AM gloops: do you find it nerve wracking working on stuff like that?
06:29 AM miss0r: Not realy. But I see what you mean. You just have to take a deep breath and break the job into smaller bits, so you do not loose track
06:30 AM miss0r: Firstly, I had to figure out how to use it. The ones that bought it had/has no idea how. or if it even worked :] So I took care of that today, and took measurements for the linear sledge I need to make
06:31 AM gloops: id be scared to death of leaving a bolt or spanner on something that dropped into the gearbox lol
06:32 AM gloops: would think that would get you some good will if theyve seen it running
06:32 AM miss0r: hehe. With this project i'm not so worried about that. But I have a checklist in my toolbox, where I can check off everything I took into the building, so I don't forget anything. I don't often use it, but I had a client some years ago that demanded I did so. So Now I just keep the list updated, so I can comply fast if needed
06:33 AM gloops: yeah slightly different working on someone elses expensive stuff than it is on your own stuff
06:33 AM miss0r: Yeah, I have them a quick tour of how the machine works today, and talked the process of the cutoff extractor through with them, untill re reached an agreement
06:33 AM miss0r: yeah: main difference: my equipment is not expensive(compared to theirs)
06:35 AM miss0r: but my god. the slice I made on this thing: The surface was like a mirror
06:35 AM gloops: well, ive got an exhaust manifold to get off an old sprinter engine, doesnt look like its been moved since the engine was fitted...wonder how many studs ill snap
06:35 AM miss0r: Sadly, I'm not allowed to take pictures onsite & the ones I took can only be used for building the equipment and then deleted. They were wery strict with this
06:36 AM miss0r: damn. Good luck with that.
06:36 AM gloops: hmm, concerned about competitors seeing what theyve got maybe
06:40 AM gloops: strange thing - engine blowing water out - a bolt flange has cracked on the manifold and fallen off, water seems to be coming from a waterway that meets/feeds the manifold, ive never known an exhaust manifold with cooling, unless it goes through to the turbo, wont know till i get it off and look
06:40 AM miss0r: Sounds odd. You might also have a track in the engine block, so that coolant can come out the bolt hole :(
06:40 AM miss0r: s/track/crack
06:41 AM gloops: miss0r yes i suspected a crack somewhere, you might have nailed it there, if water jacket has cracked internally and its finding its way through that hole
06:42 AM gloops: no sign of external crack, although they arent always visible to start
06:44 AM gloops: might be lucky and just need to plug the hole with a stud, worth a look anyway, meanwhile watching vans on ebay lol
07:02 AM gloops: hmm, closer inspection - the hole is actually in a core plug, which is fixable - but will need a new plug which means a wait, bladdy ell
07:27 AM gloops: wonder if i could turn a well fitting disc, tap it into the old core plug with some epoxy
07:27 AM gloops: for now
07:28 AM gloops: plug the plug
07:33 AM miss0r: I guess you could
07:36 AM Loetmichel: hmpf. the shopvac that provides the suction for my CNC mill vacuum table just died... brushes done for, it stutters. oookay, after 2++ years nearly 8 hours a workday thats not bad. and its still aviable... https://www.ebay.de/itm/Nassauger-Trockensauger-Staubsauger-Industriesauger-Nass-Trockensauger-Sauger/302020984534 ... and at that price its not even viable to change the brushes, even if
07:36 AM Loetmichel: it were possible ;)
07:40 AM miss0r: nice
07:48 AM miss0r: First thing i'll safe up to upgrading will be my cnc mill. I SIMPLY CANNOT stand that it is taking so long to transfer the g code to it
07:49 AM miss0r: It kills me
07:49 AM miss0r: This 55kb gcode takes around 15-20 mins to get on there
07:49 AM miss0r: god forbid I notice an error in it, and have to start over!
07:51 AM miss0r: Like what I just remembered FUCK
07:51 AM miss0r: I'll need to add a new program to the end of this
08:24 AM holzjunkie: https://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/search&search=7i80
08:24 AM holzjunkie: https://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=54
08:25 AM holzjunkie: which cable can I take to connect them ???
08:25 AM JT-Shop: you can't connect those two
08:26 AM JT-Shop: pick daughter cards from https://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=63
08:30 AM holzjunkie: and you don´t have the 7i80db right
08:30 AM fdarling: why is the 7i80 so much more expensive than the 7i93 despite only have 3 ports instead of 2?
08:33 AM holzjunkie: the 7i80 got 4 ports
08:43 AM gloops: miss0r cant you just do away with the old control panel and wire the mill motors up to drivers and run from linuxcnc?
08:45 AM gloops: have successfully got all exhaust studs free anyway, the bad one was of course the least accessible
08:47 AM gloops: hopefully exhuast and turbo will pull far enough to one side to allow the plug to be changed, ill get some pics if i can, might still be a few trying to keep old sprinters alive
08:54 AM JT-Shop: holzjunkie: I just shipped the last one, more on the way
08:56 AM JT-Shop: you can use the 7i92 with the 7i77
09:00 AM miss0r: gloops: Unfortunatly its not that straight forward with this'ol thing
09:00 AM miss0r: gloops: Sounds like you were lucky with that manifold then.
09:01 AM miss0r: More often than not they have rotten into place
09:59 AM gloops: miss0r you mean the plug is rotted in place or the manifold bolts? the plug is definitely rotten
10:00 AM gloops: ive done a plug on the other side but that one was threaded, easy to get out just put a screwdriver through it and waggle it free - but you probably mean the state of the plug bore
10:01 AM gloops: manifold is off, you know you cant hit these very hard with anything, i got a sharp chisel point just biting in the gap at one end, then another chisel a bit further along, usually the combined tapping and wedge forces ease it free - which it did
10:11 AM gloops: *if* i get the plug out and the bore is good, ill tap the new one in, check its sealed best i can, then probably put a couple of burrs round the outside edge to hold it, i dont want this popping out on me lol
10:11 AM Loetmichel: gloops: i had a diesel engine that had pressed out ALL gaskets on my Opel Omega
10:12 AM gloops: Loet gaskets? its a core plug gone on mine, the copper discs/plugs in the engine
10:12 AM Loetmichel: (exhaus recirculating valve (that also does the crankcase venting) was plugged with soot. 4000 eur engine rebuilt.
10:12 AM gloops: ill get a pick in 5 minutes im having a cup of tea
10:12 AM Loetmichel: on a 2500eur car.
10:13 AM Loetmichel: the plugs for the cores, i know
10:13 AM gloops: yeah im gonna have a look in the end of the exhaust i parted it
10:13 AM Loetmichel: i just meant to say: "popping out gaskets/plugs are a pain in the ass"
10:16 AM gloops: yeah - i reckon it will come out ok, its whether the bore is clean - its always a bstrd just trying to knock something in that has to be water/steam tight
10:17 AM gloops: would help if i warmed the engine before fitting the new plug - not really an option with exhaust off
10:46 AM gloops: can just see the offending plug with hole - top right of the exhaust port https://ibb.co/cUFi07
10:48 AM gloops: getting the plug out did go too well, tip of screwdriver snapped off and went in...lol, also looks like ive scored the bore, or could just be erosion
10:48 AM gloops: https://ibb.co/fSxD07
10:58 AM holzjunkie: everythink i could see is erosion and the track off your screwdriver ;-)
10:58 AM gloops: yes thats it mainly
10:59 AM gloops: however, brute force and ham fisted methods always win the end!
10:59 AM gloops: cant do anything else until plug comes in morning
11:00 AM holzjunkie: and the thread is broken?
11:00 AM gloops: no thread in it, they just knock in
11:01 AM gloops: *just knock in* doesnt quite say it though lol
11:02 AM holzjunkie: you talk about the glowplug right?
11:02 AM gloops: ill smear the socket with plumbers mate, and the plug, should take care of the mating surfaces sealing
11:02 AM holzjunkie: wich modell
11:03 AM gloops: 311 cdi
11:03 AM holzjunkie: which year
11:03 AM gloops: to be fair, this engine doesnt owe me a penny, ive hammered it for years - 2003
11:04 AM gloops: this is its last chance, im scrapping it anyway in a couple of months
11:04 AM gloops: if not tommorrow
11:05 AM MrSunshine: heya, im thinking of ball screw compensation in linuxcnc .. is it possible to do with two motors on the same axis? two screws, and its very slim on info and tutorials on how to do it.. anyone know any good info ? =)
11:05 AM gloops: yes its very easy MrSunshine, even ive done it
11:06 AM gloops: this tutorial file:///home/dave/Desktop/How%20to.%202%20or%20more%20motors%20on%20one%20axis.%20Gantry%20LinuxCNC%202.8%20Master%20-%20LinuxCNC.html
11:07 AM gloops: there is a little bit more to it than that but easy to do
11:07 AM MrSunshine: that is a local file on your computer =)
11:07 AM gloops: duplicate the 2 motor axis JOINT in hal, set up the pins for it, few things in the INI
11:07 AM gloops: ahh yes sorry
11:08 AM gloops: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/49-basic-configuration/33079-how-to-2-or-more-motors-on-one-axis-gantry-linuxcnc-2-8-master
11:08 AM gloops: you need 2.8 version - update on the repository
11:09 AM gloops: anyway afk for a while
11:09 AM holzjunkie: ok if your are so far them seal it with an Highpressure
11:09 AM MrSunshine: ah that is for the two motors
11:09 AM MrSunshine: that is already working fine for me, but i want to check the ballscrews for pitch error
11:35 AM holzjunkie: I´ve to ask a question the 7i80 can be connectet to the standard network port of any pc right?
11:46 AM gloops: i havent used it yet, jthornton, JT-Shop pcw-mesa all know about it
11:54 AM JT-Shop: holzjunkie: usually the ethernet cards connect to the port on the motherboard
11:55 AM JT-Shop: should be the same as the 7i92 http://www.mesaus.com/info/7i92.txt
11:56 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:59 AM holzjunkie: hy igl
12:00 PM holzjunkie: thx jt
12:09 PM IchGucksLive: ;-)
12:10 PM IchGucksLive: doing android app
12:10 PM fragalot: chi
12:18 PM gloops: spot the leaking hole https://ibb.co/cUFi07
12:19 PM fragalot: gloops: it helps if you actually bolt the manifold on!
12:19 PM gloops: i just took it off
12:19 PM fragalot: gloops: more seriously, I guess the whole engine froze then?
12:19 PM gloops: core plug - holed
12:20 PM gloops: not sure why freezing would cause that, unless already corroded ready to go maybe
12:21 PM fragalot: that crack looks like it's taken a long time to build up the stresses
12:21 PM gloops: https://ibb.co/fSxD07 with plug out
12:21 PM fragalot: ah, I was looking at the crack on the manifold
12:22 PM gloops: there isnt a crack in the manifold, i hope lol
12:22 PM fragalot: first picture, left center
12:22 PM gloops: ahh no, thats just rust flaking
12:23 PM fragalot: ah right :D
12:23 PM gloops: i had been tapping it softly
12:23 PM fragalot: :P
12:23 PM fragalot: so what is that plug for then?
12:24 PM fragalot: miss0r: for all I know it's on the top of the engine, where it would more likely be to keep things out instead!
12:24 PM gloops: didnt quite go perfectly, screwdriver tip snapped off and went in, getting plug out
12:24 PM fragalot: oh dear
12:24 PM gloops: i dont think that will do anything
12:25 PM miss0r: Some of the plugs are installed as a frost protective mechanism, the idea being that they will blow releasing some preasure, before the ice tears te engine block apart. While others are just a remnance from the machining
12:25 PM fragalot: gloops: that depends entirely on where that hole leads
12:25 PM fragalot: if it leads deep into the engine where other moving parts live.. you need to find that tip.
12:25 PM miss0r: yeah, you don't want a screwdriver top in 'circulation' :)
12:25 PM gloops: miss0r yes theres a row of these 22mm plugs along the head, they are frost/pressure safety valve, in this case it worked, hopefully
12:26 PM gloops: no chance of finding tip lol
12:26 PM miss0r: tiny electro magnet on a string
12:26 PM gloops: there arent any moving parts in the water, only the pump
12:26 PM miss0r: yeah... and IF it gets that far, it could potentially clog up the radiator
12:27 PM miss0r: well, part of it anyway
12:27 PM gloops: probably get lodged somewhere in the bottom - yes thats the worst case scenario could block a capilliary or radiator, i doubt it, probably stay near the bottom somewhere, i cant see a metal thing flying around in the water
12:28 PM miss0r: however unlikely, you will think of it every time you hear anything sounding even vaugely metalic while driving your car :D
12:29 PM gloops: haha, if it had been in the oil it would be a different matter, there was actually a kid here who always had motorbikes, he was pretty good with them, apparently though he placed foreign bodies in the sump before selling them
12:29 PM miss0r: fragalot: Have you done any casting yet?! (And don't give me that EUR issue)
12:30 PM miss0r: to get the repair fee?
12:30 PM fragalot: miss0r: I wanted to order the epoxy now (just got home), but the bloody mobile banking service is down so I can't check if i've been paid yet
12:30 PM fragalot: >.<
12:30 PM gloops: just to be a twat i think
12:30 PM fragalot: gloops: some actually glue a magnet into the oil carter plug
12:30 PM miss0r: fragalot: Well, if you have been payed, you might as well order me to come help you do the casting :D
12:31 PM miss0r: fragalot: Thats for chumps.. You can buy a replacement plug with an inserted magnet for next to nothing
12:31 PM fragalot: miss0r: what are your rates?
12:32 PM miss0r: On my old Ford Sierra P100, I thought about it, but decided against it, as I figured it'd be a better idea to just have a thin layer of metal chips covering the pan, instead of having a tall stack in the middle potentially hitting the crankshaft :P
12:32 PM fragalot: lol
12:32 PM miss0r: fragalot: 75eur minus taxes
12:33 PM miss0r: which 'round here is 25%
12:33 PM fragalot: so the casting should be done in like 2 hours, right?
12:33 PM gloops: that kid with the bikes, a couple had seized etc, others reckoned they could hear rattling in the engine and so on, it might have just been rumour but he got the reputation for it anyway
12:33 PM fragalot: I could afford that. xD
12:34 PM miss0r: fragalot: :D assuming you have a way of morphing me there, with no delay it could be done, sure. heck IF you could do that, I would donate a few hours for free :D
12:34 PM miss0r: gloops: That is something that could end a good shop
12:35 PM gloops: yeah, he probably just snapped a lot of screwdrivers like me lol
12:35 PM miss0r: yeah, poor fellah
12:35 PM fragalot: miss0r: so I have a choice basically
12:36 PM IchGucksLive: cool robot app workes fine
12:36 PM fragalot: either I do it myself with zero experience and waste ~800 euro in epoxy
12:36 PM fragalot: or, I hire you at.. what, 2000 total?
12:37 PM miss0r: Depending on the transport cost of the airplane... I think I could do you cheaper than that, but sure, lets play with the idea
12:37 PM fragalot: :< haven't been paid yet
12:37 PM fragalot: they're late this month..
12:38 PM miss0r: fragalot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRX9WfbBltk
12:40 PM fragalot: ha
12:41 PM miss0r: For some reason I always think of this guy when someone tells me their paycheck is late
12:42 PM gloops: now just the robot to make IchsGucksLive?
12:43 PM Tom_L: hope he doesn't glance up at the sun, it'll fry his retinas
12:44 PM gloops: in the very distant future when ive finished the practical machines ive got lined up, id like to build a machine just for fun, an arm or pod type thing, just to get it working
12:44 PM fragalot: Tom_L: even trump isn't dumb enough to look directly at the sun! http://cdn03.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/headlines/2017/08/donald-trump-looked-up-at-eclipse-without-glasses.jpg
12:45 PM Tom_L: naw he was just watching one of Kim Jong-un's missles fly overhead
12:46 PM roycroft: too bad it didn't put his eye out
12:46 PM fragalot: roycroft: what difference would that have made?
12:46 PM fragalot: i'm sure he'll just listen to the tv during his executive time anyway
12:46 PM roycroft: see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil?
12:47 PM gloops: you cant fault old trumps latest protectionist pledges
12:47 PM roycroft: um
12:47 PM roycroft: yes i can
12:47 PM roycroft: the last time the americans started a trade war we had a "businessman" named herbert hoover in the white house
12:47 PM roycroft: that didn't work out too well
12:48 PM gloops: roycroft eu is tariffing your cars 10%, you are tariffing theirs 2.5%
12:48 PM Tom_L: hah
12:48 PM fragalot: there is a difference between getting a better deal, and publicly ruining your chances before trying
12:49 PM roycroft: there is a difference between working to get more equitable trade deals and destroying the global economy, sending the entire planet into a depression
12:49 PM gloops: you know we rarely see any american cars here
12:49 PM roycroft: that's because we make crappy cars, for the most part
12:49 PM fragalot: because they're really not made for the EU market
12:49 PM IchGucksLive: fragalot: https://youtu.be/1FapJ9iL73g
12:49 PM Tom_L: woops... woke up the political lunch croud i see
12:49 PM roycroft: we like to make gas-guzzling monstrosities that rely on old technology
12:50 PM fragalot: american cars are too large, their turning circle sucks, their noise vs grunt ratio is way off,..
12:50 PM fragalot: and they don't stop when you aks them to
12:50 PM Tom_L: fragalot we have bigger roads to put them on too
12:50 PM fragalot: Tom_L: and longer roads
12:50 PM roycroft: i'm actually talking about economics, not politics
12:50 PM fragalot: which means that the catalyst is in the wrong place for us too
12:50 PM gloops: thats another thing fragalot, eu red tape is a tariff in itself, all this bumf about cars no wonder other nations dont bother trying to sell here
12:51 PM fragalot: gloops: I'm happy knowing that the car I step in to will protect me if something bad happens
12:51 PM FinboySlick: fragalot: There is no distinction between noise and grunt.
12:51 PM fragalot: I am also happy paying more for that
12:51 PM fragalot: FinboySlick: grunt makes you go forward, noise just makes a racket
12:52 PM fragalot: all US cars i've rented make a whole lot of noise but don't go forward, whlist EU cars typically make no noise but .. well.. go. (for the same engine size)
12:52 PM roycroft: the funny thing is, i'm more of a globalist than a protectionist, but i believe in fair trade, not unfettered "free" trade
12:52 PM FinboySlick: More noise is faster. It's like the stripes or spoilers.
12:52 PM fragalot: FinboySlick: xD flames!
12:53 PM * roycroft only owns one vehicle from a us auto maker
12:53 PM roycroft: an old chevy van
12:53 PM MrSunshine: making a .comp file with say 0 0 0 5 0 0 etc in, should make the machine go exactly as it is now right? then i can tweak the values as i go along?
12:56 PM IchGucksLive: guten abend candyonetoo
12:56 PM IchGucksLive: candyonetoo: schwitzt ihr in bayern schon
12:57 PM IchGucksLive: fragalot: did you see the vid
12:59 PM fragalot: IchGucksLive: I had opened it but not yet - watching now
01:00 PM fragalot: IchGucksLive: neat, what do you have planned for it?
01:01 PM IchGucksLive: education low level
01:01 PM IchGucksLive: lowest level on 65Euros
01:01 PM fragalot: I built something similar as a school project, to act as a bar tender and make cocktails
01:01 PM IchGucksLive: use geard steppers
01:02 PM IchGucksLive: Nema 11
01:02 PM fragalot: that's quite cheap!
01:02 PM IchGucksLive: the servos are a monster fail
01:02 PM IchGucksLive: 7servos Mg996 at 20 euros
01:03 PM IchGucksLive: they are real crap
01:03 PM fragalot: burn out?
01:03 PM IchGucksLive: 2 got as hot as oven
01:03 PM IchGucksLive: soldert to motor frame
01:03 PM gloops: the yanks made good engines, some good V engines, they just havent got into modern small engines and the associated electronics yet
01:03 PM fragalot: yeah they arent' made for continuous high loads
01:04 PM gloops: you get more out of a 1000cc euro/jap engine than you do an american 2000cc
01:04 PM Tom_L: fragalot we like to make alot of noise
01:05 PM IchGucksLive: fragalot: you only got 5Deg steps
01:05 PM fragalot: IchGucksLive: is that the servo, or the controllers' fault though?
01:05 PM IchGucksLive: but no repead position at all
01:05 PM Tom_L: not so much anymore though but in the 60's and 70's we were all about that
01:06 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8
01:06 PM gloops: my brother had an old chevy impala, what a motor
01:07 PM Tom_L: 350?
01:07 PM gloops: it was 5.7 litre
01:08 PM jdh: 'bout tree fiddy
01:08 PM Tom_L: broke down and installed f360 last night
01:08 PM Tom_L: just to have a look
01:08 PM gloops: initial thoughts?
01:08 PM Tom_L: it crashed twice on install
01:09 PM Tom_L: so we're not starting out on a good relationship
01:09 PM fragalot: lol
01:09 PM Tom_L: i did make a block with a slot and put some tools on it and posted it though
01:09 PM jdh: did it ask you to reboot?
01:10 PM Tom_L: no
01:10 PM Tom_L: just restarted it
01:10 PM Tom_L: however it never asked me some questions it would normally ask on install
01:10 PM Tom_L: acording to pete
01:10 PM Tom_L: it's all good though, i don't like answering alot of questions...
01:11 PM Tom_L: units mainly
01:11 PM Tom_L: and you set them up separately
01:11 PM jdh: damn. I was going to askyou seven
01:11 PM Tom_L: drawing and tool
01:12 PM Tom_L: it doesn't look so bad but i can see it's got a ways to go
01:13 PM gloops: not tried freecad yet Tom?
01:13 PM Tom_L: and who the hell puts Z pointing to the left???
01:13 PM Tom_L: no
01:13 PM Tom_L: open it up and you got X Z staring you in the face instead of XY
01:14 PM Tom_L: they're calling +Z the front
01:14 PM Tom_L: Y is the front
01:15 PM fragalot: Tom_L: Z direction can be changed
01:15 PM Tom_L: where?
01:15 PM fragalot: hold on
01:15 PM Tom_L: it should default to that from the get go!
01:15 PM fragalot: there's a lot of defaults it doesn't set by default
01:16 PM fragalot: at least it remembers them
01:16 PM Tom_L: i've only spent maybe half hour to an hour on it so i've got alot to find
01:16 PM Tom_L: i hope it does or we may get a divorce :D
01:16 PM fragalot: click your name, top right, first tab, "default modeling orientation"
01:17 PM fragalot: sorry, click your name, hit preferences
01:17 PM fragalot: :P
01:17 PM Tom_L: yeah i was in there briefly yesterday
01:17 PM gloops: fragalot you were looking for one of these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-ANTIQUE-JOSEPH-NIXON-STEEL-AND-WOOD-PASTRY-CUTTER/202248589260?
01:17 PM fragalot: gloops: that's not what I wanted :P
01:17 PM gloops: i might have to bid on that actually
01:17 PM Tom_L: thanks
01:18 PM Tom_L: maybe they thought i owned a cnc lathe
01:18 PM fragalot: Tom_L: I learned in highschool that the US had a different interpretation on XYZ directions
01:18 PM fragalot: perhaps the fusion devs thought so too
01:18 PM Tom_L: gawd.. is the cloud really that nosey?
01:18 PM Tom_L: hell even the french get it right..
01:19 PM fragalot: f360 takes getting used to, especially if you're used to something high-end
01:19 PM fragalot: but it's very usable
01:19 PM Tom_L: i know
01:19 PM Tom_L: i fully expect a short learning period
01:20 PM Tom_L: no, it looks very useable to me. just backwards on a few things
01:20 PM fragalot: don't create new components within your main assembly; that's my golden tip of the day
01:20 PM fragalot: come back tomorrow for another
01:21 PM Tom_L: that's frowned upon anyway
01:21 PM fragalot: i'm used to doing that in Inventor
01:21 PM Tom_L: oh
01:21 PM fragalot: it creates the component in a separate file anyhow
01:22 PM Tom_L: well i've always been told not to
01:22 PM fragalot: and drawing it in-place makes it much faster to get your head around what you're drawing
01:22 PM fragalot: from a final drawing pov, there is no difference between a part created outside, or inside of an assembly
01:22 PM Tom_L: yeah, it can be done if you go about it right but it's still frowned upon
01:22 PM fragalot: maybe in some softwares
01:22 PM fragalot: in Inventor it doesn't matter
01:22 PM Tom_L: how do you do clamp avoidance in f360?
01:23 PM fragalot: i'm not sure
01:23 PM Tom_L: i was running out of time but tried to do a profile last night and it wanted to clear the whole perimeter material from the model
01:23 PM Tom_L: that's not what i was after
01:24 PM fragalot: NYCCNC has a few videos on that
01:24 PM Tom_L: i'll figure it out
01:25 PM Tom_L: oh, another one... if i have a part and i want multiple on a plate to cut out how to efficiently arrange them for cutout instead of one off per model
01:25 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Can_Holder/A9_Multiple.jpg
01:25 PM Tom_L: for example
01:26 PM fragalot: patterns & copy-pasta
01:26 PM Tom_L: ok
01:26 PM Tom_L: you sound like you've been using it a while
01:27 PM fragalot: I haven't.
01:27 PM fragalot: but I only shoot myself in the foot a few times before I figure ito ut
01:27 PM fragalot: :D
01:28 PM Tom_L: i can probably draw the stuff quicker in what i'm used to and import it
01:28 PM Tom_L: seems to import ok
01:29 PM Tom_L: another one i didn't see right off in the tool list was where to specify number of flutes
01:30 PM fragalot: when you open the tool, the cutter tab has the number of flutes
01:31 PM Tom_L: i did notice there were 2 posts for lcnc, emc and linuxcnc
01:31 PM Tom_L: likely identical
01:31 PM fragalot: lol
01:51 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Myford-ML7-Lathe-Donor-Machine-Spares-or-Repairs-3-chucks-etc/162931195766? dont see any reason that couldnt be got working, they sell for a lot more
01:52 PM fragalot: you keep saying that for things that have 0 bids on them
01:52 PM fragalot: for all you know that machine could go for 9000+ :P
01:53 PM fragalot: other than a missing motor,.. what's wrong with it?
01:54 PM gloops: surface rust - in description it says previous buyer didnt turn up - hadnt thought how he was going to get it to spain lul
01:55 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Myford-Lathe-on-Workbench-spares-accessories-include-plus-tool-cabinet/302659630728?
01:55 PM gloops: and another, far 2 far from me though
01:56 PM fragalot: still has oil in the oilers
01:56 PM fragalot: that's a good sign
01:57 PM gloops: probably been stood most of its many years
01:58 PM gloops: ahh well, no more boredom window shopping
01:59 PM fragalot: feel free to help me window shop for ~50 liters of low viscosity, slow curing epoxy if you want?
02:00 PM gloops: hmm, consumables usually go somewhere relative to retail price
02:02 PM gloops: consider poly resin, 75% the stiffness of epoxy, controllable cure, £2 a litre
02:02 PM fragalot: this is the best price i've found so far. https://www.mrboat.nl/mrboat-epoxy/mr-boat-epoxy-60-kilo/
02:03 PM gloops: 9 euros a litre
02:03 PM fragalot: I don't want to cheap out if it costs me rigidity
02:06 PM gloops: epoxy is no cheaper here, also varying specs regarding cast thickness
02:06 PM fragalot: cast thickness is a tricky one
02:06 PM fragalot: that assumes a continuous cast
02:07 PM fragalot: where-as in my case the epoxy layers itself will be quite thin
02:07 PM fragalot: as it's interrupted by the basalt rock
02:09 PM gloops: pff, bit of a gamble?
02:10 PM fragalot: not really
02:11 PM gloops: does this get hot when curing?
02:11 PM fragalot: i'd imagine so, but there is a lot of mass to sink the heat into
02:11 PM gloops: it wont be sinking in, its got to radiate out, theres only more heat in the middle
02:12 PM gloops: with poly for volume casts you go with really slow cure, otherwise it cracks
02:12 PM gloops: dont really know the procedure with epoxy casting
02:13 PM fragalot: if there is a thin layer of epoxy, and a big (relative term) rock is blocking access to the rest of it, that rock will absorb the amount of heat generated by that epoxy during the curing process
02:13 PM fragalot: you really can't compare it to a standard pure pour
02:14 PM gloops: yes a filler will absorb heat and increase surface area etc
02:14 PM fragalot: increase surface area and reduce volume
02:14 PM fragalot: that last part is the secret
02:14 PM fragalot: very low amount of epoxy relative to the entire mass
02:14 PM gloops: whats the ratio of chippings to resin?
02:15 PM XXCoder: does this get hot when curling?
02:15 PM fragalot: 10% resin
02:15 PM fragalot: XXCoder: xD
02:15 PM XXCoder: ;)
02:15 PM fragalot: well, somewhere between 10 to 15% I think.. I'll have to experiment a bit to see where I end up with the materials I can source
02:15 PM gloops: are you talking about eyebrows XXCoder?
02:16 PM XXCoder: no.
02:16 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_03ZG1L5nc
02:17 PM gloops: ive never really been convinced that that polishing thing does anything
02:18 PM fragalot: it really does
02:18 PM fragalot: the stone glides a lot better on a thin film of water than it does on ice
02:18 PM fragalot: not only do you keep more momentum, you can also adjust the path slightly
02:18 PM XXCoder: skating blades work on similiar priciples
02:19 PM XXCoder: blade melts ice under it, so it can move very smoothly indeed
02:19 PM Tom_L: fragalot, symetry you pick the two outer boundaries then the element you want symetrical right?
02:19 PM gloops: makes sense
02:19 PM Tom_L: well i thought so but it's not doing it
02:19 PM fragalot: Tom_L: most tools require you to grab the element first
02:20 PM fragalot: never used "symmetry", only "mirror"
02:20 PM Tom_L: want to center a slot
02:20 PM fragalot: I usually draw a construction line that I add the desired constraints to
02:21 PM fragalot: there may be better methods, but that's mine :P
02:21 PM Tom_L: you should be able to snap to an edge
02:21 PM Tom_L: without any help
02:21 PM fragalot: you can
02:22 PM Tom_L: i think it had another constraint interfering with it
02:23 PM fragalot: over-constraining is indeed a thing
02:25 PM Tom_L: have you tried formulas with it?
02:25 PM fragalot: yeah, works fine
02:26 PM fragalot: it's just a bit annoying to get the dimension reference on some of the dimensions
02:26 PM Tom_L: where do you enter them?
02:26 PM Tom_L: in the dimension box/
02:26 PM Tom_L: ?
02:26 PM fragalot: yes
02:27 PM fragalot: you can also add external parameters if you want, I thinkt hat's under "modify"
02:27 PM Tom_L: where do you get the element list?
02:28 PM fragalot: Tom_L: "modify" "change parameters"
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: he's mixing with mostly an aggregate, so it will hardly get hot
02:28 PM fragalot: Tom_L: it's only available after saving though iirc
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: and it will "sink in" if the aggregate is cooler than the epoxy while curing
02:28 PM Tom_L: if you hold the pointer on an element long enough the element name will appear
02:29 PM fragalot: Tom_L: but if it's a dimension within your current sketch, just click on the other dimension.. if it's a different sketch, open it, edit the dimension, and see what it says when you hover over it
02:29 PM fragalot: Tom_L: yeah, the parameters is more for things that are not part of your active sketch ;-)
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: gloops: what do you mean by "poly" resin?
02:29 PM fragalot: Tom_L: you can also rename them in the parameters window which is nice
02:30 PM gloops: CaptHindSight - polyester resin - as used for fibreglass
02:31 PM gloops: urethane is also popular
02:31 PM cradek_ is now known as cradek
02:31 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: polyester, epoxy, urethane..... low --> higher --Higher cost
02:32 PM Tom_L: hah went back in a prior sketch and it erased the one i was working on
02:32 PM fragalot: Tom_L: are you sure you didn't just move the history cursor?
02:33 PM Tom_L: yeah, it's cleared from the list
02:33 PM fragalot: can you hit the >| arrow on the left?
02:33 PM Tom_L: nothing else there
02:34 PM fragalot: weird
02:34 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: but is it also unsuitable > very suitable > totally unsuitable?
02:34 PM Tom_L: i changed a dimension but it wasn't referenced by anything else
02:35 PM Tom_L: it got rid of the solid too
02:35 PM fragalot: o.O
02:35 PM fragalot: i'm like 60% sure you moved the history marker by accident
02:35 PM Tom_L: when i put the solid back, the other sketch was there
02:35 PM Tom_L: very odd behavior
02:36 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Urethane-Casting-Resin-Black-1-GALLON/231381124845?
02:36 PM gloops: you can get urethane casting resin quite cheap
02:37 PM fragalot: 2 minute working time
02:37 PM fragalot: pass
02:38 PM ziper: what do you need more for
02:38 PM fragalot: mixing in the aggregate and putting it in the mold
02:38 PM fragalot: all 300kg of it
02:38 PM ziper: oh jeez 300 kg is alot
02:38 PM ziper: chill it?
02:38 PM fragalot: yup
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: either will work, they all have different qualities
02:39 PM ziper: what are you making that is 300kg
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: you just want to keep epoxies away from sunlight/UV
02:39 PM gloops: a giant Homer
02:40 PM fragalot: ziper: http://a360.co/2sq5LP6
02:40 PM ziper: which part
02:41 PM fragalot: the base & gantry
02:41 PM ziper: why not concrete
02:41 PM fragalot: vibration resistance
02:42 PM gloops: yes, do a test with concrete at least! ad some epoxy screed resin or latex powder
02:42 PM ziper: 300kg is a lot of resin
02:42 PM fragalot: ziper: the total mix will be 300kg for the base, not the resin!
02:42 PM ziper: can't you just use plastic for the mounts or something
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: gloops: it's says polyurethane but I wonder if it's actually an epoxy
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: since it's a 1:1 ratio
02:44 PM gloops: maybe, i was looking for some very cheap stuff i was watching but that seems to have gone
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: I don't think that various polymers have been well explored
02:46 PM gloops: you dont want to be buying this stuff in 5kg tubs if you need 300kg
02:46 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: perhaps not. I'm willing to experiment if it guarantees success though? xD
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: we have epoxies, polyesters and urethanes from hard and rigid to and flexible
02:47 PM fragalot: gloops: I want to buy 60kg, not 300..
02:47 PM gloops: oh yes
02:47 PM Tom_L: finally...
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: too flexible and it might not dampen well enough
02:48 PM gloops: i really dont know how general purpose polyester resin casts in large blocks, ive done plenty of smaller castings, youd have to waste a 20kg tub to find out i guess
02:48 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: it may also negatively affect rigidity at that point
02:48 PM gloops: there is no way fibreglass is going to flex at 10 inch thick
02:48 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: It may well catch fire if you do it in a block
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: gloops it's not a problem for it to be several inches thick when cast
02:49 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: but, overheating is going to be rather a smaller problem if there is a low resin fraction in your composite
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: part of the design that has worked well is to convert vibration into heat by allowing some flex
02:50 PM gloops: SpeedEvil its going to have a filler and slowest cure...it could work, ive done a few inches its fine - early experiments though yes virtually smoking - and cracked
02:50 PM SpeedEvil: Setting it at 5 or 10C could also work well.
02:51 PM gloops: if you used chopped strand as filler not gravel, thats going to be very strong
02:51 PM fragalot: that will crack
02:51 PM gloops: doubtful
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: people have asked for the fastest curing resins and I answered is "exploding resin fast enough?"
02:51 PM * SpeedEvil wonders what solid fraction you can achieve with properly chosen aggregate grades, epoxy-mixed in a vacuum.
02:51 PM gloops: you can get very strong glass strands
02:51 PM fragalot: strands will not break the resin layer sufficiently I think when castin a 200mm block
02:52 PM fragalot: gloops: I mean the epoxy, when curing
02:52 PM gloops: oh epoxy maybe
02:52 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: :P meanwhile I'm looking for the slowest I can find, lol
02:52 PM SpeedEvil: fragalot: temperature works well to slow down the cure.
02:53 PM gloops: i would do an experiment with the lathe i have in mind with poly resin, its only 40 quid, but it will be ages away before i get to it
02:53 PM fragalot: SpeedEvil: it also works well to attract moisture
02:53 PM fragalot: :P
02:53 PM fragalot: but yes, I will be looking into how i'll cool it down once I get started..
02:53 PM SpeedEvil: fragalot: that depends how you do it.
02:53 PM fragalot: SpeedEvil: it also depends on how humid the air is
02:56 PM gloops: how about this - laminate the mold with epoxy - maybe carbonfibre mat, fill the shell with cement concrete
02:57 PM gloops: you could laminte wire reinforcing for the concrete into the shell all way accross from side to side
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: www.mech.utah.edu/~me7960/lectures/Topic14-DesignOfMachineStructures.pdf
03:02 PM SpeedEvil: I see that and raise https://pearl-hifi.com/06_Lit_Archive/15_Mfrs_Publications/Moore_Tools/Foundations_of_Mechanical_Accuracy.pdf
03:03 PM gloops: thanks i will study these in great detail..later
03:05 PM ziper: fwiw i've had epoxy cure a lot faster with the filler mixed in
03:05 PM ziper: because the filler decreased the heat dissipation
03:05 PM fragalot: that depends on the filler doesn't it?
03:05 PM ziper: yeah
03:07 PM gloops: that may be applicable to metal powder fillers
03:07 PM SpeedEvil: https://i.imgur.com/OO4QQmH.jpg - my favourite page from the above book - page 36.
03:08 PM SpeedEvil: 'insufficiently rigid' straight edges.
03:08 PM gloops: id make one of these - but no software to make the code https://i.pinimg.com/736x/3c/b6/46/3cb646e2fd7967200c61d07b7aa0e2a4.jpg
03:09 PM fragalot: gloops: what code..
03:09 PM fragalot: it should still work with 'standard' G-code
03:09 PM gloops: g code
03:09 PM fragalot: it's the machine controllers' responsibility to translate the delta's
03:09 PM gloops: 6 axis
03:10 PM gloops: i could do the kins calculations, but its still six axis
03:10 PM gloops: basically, what am i going to do with it - nothing
03:12 PM Rab: You could ask this person for advice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nebJ59TcYlQ
03:12 PM SpeedEvil: 'the resulting straight-edge can be no more accurate than the 25 millionths...
03:13 PM gloops: very graceful moves Rab
03:14 PM gloops: anyone here make that?
03:14 PM XXCoder: gloops: make it a CMM
03:14 PM gloops: whats that XXCoder?
03:14 PM Rab: Really stunning project, not sure what they've done since: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_UmhUjZhNo
03:14 PM XXCoder: computer measuring machine
03:15 PM XXCoder: it measures parts to find its 3d shape and with better software, precision and accuracy of part
03:17 PM gloops: it is pretty fab yeah, ive no real use for a measuring machine though XXCoder
03:18 PM gloops: if i built a hexapod id move the table not the spindle
03:20 PM Rab: gloops, why's that?
03:20 PM gloops: easier to build that up than down
03:21 PM fragalot: a lot more weight to hold on to though
03:21 PM Rab: I'm skeptical. Also, you'd need much bigger actuators and bearings.
03:22 PM gloops: suppose it depends on the size of the table, its only wood cutting anyway
03:23 PM Rab: He claims to have done aluminum.
03:23 PM gloops: i.e not heavy job
03:25 PM gloops: these are not practical machines, the rods coming down place limits on the height of cutting
03:26 PM gloops: supposing you want to machine a lifesize human figure, what machine would do that?
03:27 PM XXCoder: bunch of ways actually
03:27 PM XXCoder: if youre willing to build one, could just grab a router then mill slices
03:28 PM XXCoder: then build it up
03:28 PM Rab: Doesn't that complaint apply to all machine topologies?
03:28 PM XXCoder: one peice is much harder, you need quite large 4 axis or maybe 5 if theres certain features.
03:28 PM gloops: Rab if it does its time we found a solution
03:28 PM Rab: gloops, the solution is a bigger machine.
03:29 PM gloops: XXCoder yes i suppose, a very long z axis with a spindle that can rotate 360
03:30 PM XXCoder: rotate 360 degrees and around 270 degrees other way
03:30 PM gloops: or just rotate the job on a 3 axis yes
03:30 PM XXCoder: basically it could point all way around but downwards to upwards limited by rest of z axis and spindle nmounbt
03:32 PM gloops: so most things are already covered by machines with normal linear/rotary axis, nothing the hexapod can do that they cant
03:32 PM XXCoder: some of designs is basically fun
03:32 PM XXCoder: hexpod can do something unique though
03:32 PM hkhalaf: pulleyteeth motor:leadscrew: I have gear of 23 teeth at the motor and a gear at the lead screw which is 75 teeth. what is my pulley teeth?
03:32 PM SpeedEvil: Or marketing for sale to gullible people.
03:33 PM XXCoder: it can work on material WAY bigger than itself.
03:33 PM Rab: A budget approach might be a gantry router with a rotary 4th axis and a tilting Z-axis.
03:34 PM hkhalaf: I am retrofitting my old chinese wire edm machine
03:34 PM gloops: hkhalaf your gear ratio is 3.261
03:34 PM Loetmichel: gloops: hexapods can do all the things faster AND more rigid usually
03:35 PM hkhalaf: gloops, thanks, but could it be rational number :) ?
03:38 PM hkhalaf: gloops, so in stepconf wizard, motor:leadscrew it goes like 23:75 , or should I write it as (1:3.261)
03:38 PM gloops: hkhalaf in stepconfig just put your pulley teeth numbers in as they are
03:40 PM hkhalaf: gloops, I see thanks again
03:41 PM gloops: sorry just had to read some numbers off a stupid table for someone
03:41 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: are hexapods really more rigid than a cathesian design?
03:45 PM gloops: well, think like holding an ariel mast up with cables, there is some rigidity with tension like that
03:45 PM gloops: difficult to guess what is taking the cutting forces
03:45 PM fragalot: there is a big differnece between a cable that pulls and a rod that pushes
03:46 PM gloops: well the force will be trying to bend the arms
03:46 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: they CAN be
03:47 PM Loetmichel: because you have all the framing outside of the work area
03:47 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: assuming same work envelope and similar build budget?
03:47 PM Loetmichel: nope
03:48 PM Loetmichel: they are obviouly larger and inherently more expensive than a same work envelope gantry mill
03:48 PM Loetmichel: expecially with a moving gantry
03:48 PM fragalot: that they're higher is a given, but that's not a really big issue imho
03:48 PM fragalot: faster I can imagine too as the parts they must move are a lot lighter in weight
03:49 PM fragalot: but that same lightweight advantage I would have expected to be a rigidity downside,
03:49 PM fragalot: ?
03:50 PM gloops: nah, its triangulated, thats some holding structure
03:51 PM gloops: the beams are acting as if they in the vertical position, like props, you cant bend that
03:51 PM gloops: as opposed to say gantry which is taking lateral forces
03:52 PM fragalot: suddenly that makes a lot of sense :P
03:52 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: a hexapod is by design a very rigid structure
03:52 PM Loetmichel: BECAUSE its hexagonal
03:53 PM evilren_: they sway a lot
03:53 PM Loetmichel: MUCH more rigd than a single beam of a gantry or the column of a knee mill
03:53 PM evilren_: i mean theoretically what youre saying makes sense
03:53 PM evilren_: but a lot of implementations wobble as much as DIY gantries
03:53 PM evilren_: because taller, probably
03:54 PM gloops: evilren, its strange, if i ram full force on my z axis, the only thing that moves is the table/frame
03:54 PM gloops: youve got to consider the containing structure a lot
03:54 PM Rab: Interesting topology, money shot at 4:38: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=larbLZAl-k8
03:54 PM evilren_: yeah i mean you can build anything rigid enough to work
03:55 PM evilren_: but mostly what i see is like, <2" aluminum extrusion profiles
03:55 PM gloops: on the hex, the arms holding the spindle are very rigid, the containing frame is not so immune to twisting though
03:55 PM evilren_: you would just need cross bracing in most designs
03:55 PM evilren_: i guess thats whats annoying
03:56 PM evilren_: you see people put a ton of work into the CNCs and printers, and the end result is kind of a floppy mess
03:56 PM gloops: yeah brace everything, thrice times
03:56 PM evilren_: like, you could make a few triangles and fix that, yo
03:57 PM evilren_: like, the 3d printer community is basically working up from machines with laughable rigidity and the associated problems in the work
03:57 PM evilren_: and theyre just now getting to the point where the rigidity and consistency approaches affordable benchtop machine tools
03:58 PM evilren_: and ya, same price. way to waste 10 years
04:01 PM fragalot: going super cheap got a lot more people involved and attracted to the idea though
04:01 PM SpeedEvil: And got volume to the point that price crashed on a lot of the repurposable parts
04:02 PM fragalot: and a lot of the rigidity issues were compensated for with pretty darn good software as well
04:02 PM evilren_: fragalot: while i agree with you, i really dont see that as a valid excuse for general lack of cross bracing
04:02 PM Rab: evilren_, I can't love CNC glue gun culture, but two points: 1) 3D printing, like laser cutting, benefits from very low mass; heavy machines can be a detriment 2) cartesian armatures were a solved problem, but very expensive. RepCrap dogma did push the envelope in bringing that down to hobbyist level.
04:02 PM fragalot: evilren_: my first gen prusa got built out of carved blocks of wood, and then printed it's own cross bracing
04:03 PM fragalot: anyway, i'm off
04:03 PM fragalot: gnite!
04:03 PM evilren_: 'WERE LOSING STEPS, ITS A COMPLETE MYSTERY TO THE COMMUNITY" shit has like multiple visible resonances
04:03 PM evilren_: nite
04:04 PM evilren_: rab: yeah i dont think so, i think chinese manufacturing engineers and logistics guys made that happen
04:05 PM Rab: evilren_, only because of market demand. No 3D printing fad: no cheap hardware on eBay.
04:06 PM evilren_: right dont agree, i think the supply created the market
04:06 PM evilren_: factories are going to pump out that shit for typical applications regardless
04:09 PM evilren_: anyway, machines should be as rigid as they need to be, older 3d printers just werent, newer ones are pretty traditional designs for stuff like printers, lasers, sticker cutters
04:09 PM evilren_: you want to do a gantry or hexapod that cool, it doesnt have to be wobbly
04:20 PM Rab: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5ZDFBBiiSE
04:23 PM gloops: wow, that almost looks biological
04:24 PM andypugh: I wonder what the point is?
04:25 PM gloops: its hard to get your hard round the cartesian moves of some of these machines, once you get that clear the rest is easier to understand
04:25 PM gloops: err *hard* = head lol
04:25 PM gloops: i mean mind
04:27 PM gloops: its rocks for x movement, z is a contraction, y - table move
04:27 PM gloops: rotary on table and rotary spindle move
04:29 PM Tom_L: cool but chips would plug up the vents
04:29 PM gloops: and ive only got freecad lol
04:30 PM Tom_L: not very efficient use of equipment
04:31 PM gloops: how about rigidity though? it may be more rigid than traditional design
04:31 PM Tom_L: 12 servo motors on the arms alone
04:32 PM andypugh: I don’t think it does anything better than https://goo.gl/images/oDzccD
04:33 PM Tom_L: no not really
04:33 PM Tom_L: so, i saved this file in 360 but now i can't find it
04:35 PM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: the paper www.mech.utah.edu/~me7960/lectures/Topic14-DesignOfMachineStructures.pdf cover polymer concrete machine designs and how to convert vibration into heat for better dampening
04:35 PM Rab: Tom_L, 12 motors? I believe the joints near the spindle are passive.
04:35 PM SpeedEvil: ah - I missed that bit.
04:35 PM SpeedEvil: Though all dampening goes to heat.
04:35 PM SpeedEvil: Well - unless it's sound
04:36 PM SpeedEvil: Which goes to heat outside the machine
04:36 PM gloops: the hexapod has some awkward engineering for the back yard machinist though
04:36 PM Deejay: gn8
04:37 PM gloops: ball joints or CV joints
04:41 PM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: the way the tubes are arranged internally expedites the process
04:42 PM SpeedEvil: hmm
04:42 PM Tom_L: can you create new tool holders for f360?
04:42 PM andypugh: Tom_L: It will be in the data bar on the left
04:42 PM andypugh: (or should be0
04:42 PM Tom_L: yeah i found it
04:42 PM andypugh: Or perhaps it is already auto-opened nad hiding behind the current doc?
04:42 PM Tom_L: no it was on the lef
04:42 PM Tom_L: t
04:43 PM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: depends on sounds, baby prayers go directly to heaven :)
04:43 PM Tom_L: it's layout is interesting for sure
04:45 PM CaptHindsight: I need a low cost hexapod with ~50mm travel to pluck fibers and stuff them into a thin tube
04:47 PM enleth: https://i.imgur.com/WhBMGjl.jpg cleaning the ways and oiling orifices on the bridgeport, plus some surface rust removal while I can access the affected areas
04:48 PM gloops: so you ended up stripping it then enleth
04:48 PM enleth: not the first time
04:48 PM enleth: and I kept most wiring connected
04:48 PM JT-Shop: enleth: is that a BP knee mill?
04:49 PM JT-Shop: sure looks like mine
04:49 PM enleth: JT-Shop: yes, a Series 1 MDI
04:49 PM JT-Shop: same as mine except I have an Anilam 1100M CNC kit on it
04:49 PM enleth: heavier than a classic manual BP, wider ways, dedicated motor mounts
04:50 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: Isn’t that more of a job for a Delta robot? https://youtu.be/vtAEIKJLHGw?t=15s
04:50 PM enleth: a bit trickier to take apart, too
04:50 PM JT-Shop: why is that?
04:51 PM enleth: JT-Shop: the Y screw is a bitch to take out of the knee, for one
04:51 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: a tiny delta will also do if there was one
04:52 PM JT-Shop: mine is a little over 7' tall to the top of the motor
04:52 PM enleth: JT-Shop: top of motor, or top of transmission?
04:53 PM andypugh: Capt google “RC servo delta robot”
04:53 PM enleth: JT-Shop: mine is a rigid ram model with the motor pointing downwards into a recess in the ram
04:53 PM JT-Shop: top of the motor, it's the highest part
04:53 PM enleth: JT-Shop: OK, so you have a "classic" type head, like a manual machine, but with a Z motor bolted on somehow?
04:53 PM JT-Shop: mine doesn't have the openings on the knee part just the hole in the bottom for the jack screw
04:54 PM JT-Shop: yea, Z is bolted onto the quill and quite weak
04:54 PM enleth: completely different iron then
04:54 PM enleth: where does the X motor mount?
04:54 PM enleth: the saddle or the table?
04:54 PM JT-Shop: right side below the table and sticks out a lot lol
04:55 PM enleth: so it rides left and right along with the table?
04:55 PM JT-Shop: yes
04:55 PM enleth: manual iron with a retrofit, probably not a single casting in common
04:56 PM JT-Shop: exactly a manual with the cnc kit
04:56 PM enleth: note the saddle hanging off the cherry picker on the right, it's got the X motor mounted on it
04:56 PM enleth: stationary X screw, rotating nut
04:57 PM enleth: it's just a hell of a ride to take it apart without damaging anything
04:57 PM enleth: worth it, though
04:58 PM JT-Shop: time to chill with the chickens and share a beer with them
05:02 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, you been messin with F360 a bit too?
05:11 PM enleth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTBRgHwezTY if anyone's interested, I made a short walkaround clip showing the mill, while waiting for evaporust to take effect
05:12 PM enleth: quality's kinda shit, but that's all my phone's camera can do in poor lighting
05:12 PM evilren_: rab: sexy bot is sexy
05:13 PM evilren_: heh, operator looks nervous af
05:25 PM andypugh: Woot! I have caught up my 7 pages of unread forum threasds.
05:26 PM Tom_L: heh
05:26 PM Tom_L: andypugh, when cutting a profile how do you specify multiple passes at incremental depth?
05:26 PM Tom_L: 2d profile
05:26 PM andypugh: normally
05:26 PM Tom_L: i get the last one
05:26 PM Tom_L: but where to you set the increment at?
05:27 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L: a bit a while back
05:27 PM andypugh: “Multiple depths”
05:29 PM andypugh: Tom_L: https://imagebin.ca/v/3tsa10dckWbO
05:31 PM Tom_L: i was using 2d contour
05:31 PM andypugh: I think you still have that icon?
05:31 PM andypugh: The U-shape with lines >
05:34 PM Tom_L: thanks
05:40 PM Tom_L: andypugh do you know where to save new holder drawings?
05:40 PM Tom_L: collets
05:41 PM Tom_L: or if you can even add new ones...
05:44 PM Tom_L: apparently not yet
05:53 PM andypugh: I think you can edit holders, but I might be confusing it with Inventor (which I also use)
05:53 PM Tom_L: looked on a forum and right now they don't support it
05:53 PM Tom_L: you may be able to edit one.. that i don't know yet
05:54 PM Tom_L: it would likely be saved with the current part
06:17 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: are you cutting things in the vise with the mill?
06:17 PM CaptHindsight: yet
07:11 PM gregcnc: Finally got around to replacing motor bearings in the lathe. They were noisy, but I didn't realize how bad they were.
07:12 PM gregcnc: I wouldn't run it over 4kRPM due to vibration, which i thought was related to drawbar actuator balance after replacing spindle bearings.
07:12 PM gregcnc: now it runs smooth and quiet, balls to the wall 6300RPM
07:13 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight yes
07:14 PM Tom_L: ... in the vise.... not the vise :)
07:52 PM enleth: soooo, someone just subscribed to my YT account, must have been from this channel as the video is unlisted, but nickname doesn't match
07:52 PM enleth: anyone into RC diesel engines here?
07:54 PM enleth: BTW, if you plan to overhaul *any* type of machinery, watch the Hand Tool Rescue channel, a lot of his cleaning tricks are perfectly applicable to machine tools
08:55 PM * roycroft snarfs the tool rescue channel videos, trusting enleth's judgement that they are worthwhile