#linuxcnc Logs

Mar 02 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:07 AM miss0r: Goodmorning
12:10 AM MrHindsight: just watching the BBC news on the snowstorm
12:10 AM jesseg: good morning miss0r
12:10 AM miss0r: MrHindsight what snowstorm?
12:10 AM MrHindsight: covering the UK
12:10 AM MrHindsight: an average snowfall for my area
12:10 AM MrHindsight: ~7" (18cm)
12:10 AM miss0r: looks nice :) (I've always enjoyed a good snow fall)
12:31 AM fragalot: hi
12:31 AM miss0r: mornin'
12:53 AM fragalot: ha. there's a replacement for the tide pod challenge already
12:53 AM fragalot: "the hot coil challenge"
12:54 AM fragalot: switch on the cooking furnace until it's red hot
12:54 AM fragalot: put your arm on it
12:54 AM fragalot: ???
12:54 AM fragalot: profit.
12:57 AM miss0r: wtf
12:57 AM miss0r: Who comes up with this shit?!..
12:58 AM miss0r: never mind that question, I can see who. but who on gods green earth would do that shit ?!?!
12:58 AM IchGucksLive: morning all
12:58 AM miss0r: mornin
01:01 AM fragalot: hey
01:02 AM Longbow: hello!
01:02 AM Longbow: Does anyone know why nativeCAM has a behaviour of his own?
01:03 AM Longbow: It likes to add spindle speed and g1 speed on his own
01:03 AM Longbow: like 20 to 30% on the set value
01:03 AM Longbow: whay is that LOL
01:03 AM fragalot: is there an override setting?
01:04 AM Longbow: nope that I am aware of
01:04 AM Longbow: with everything at 100% not over it is like 25% over the set parameters
01:04 AM IchGucksLive: Longbow: settings constant lathe speed
01:04 AM Longbow: lathe ?
01:05 AM IchGucksLive: it is set up for turn i think
01:05 AM Longbow: could be set for constant lathe speed from default:O
01:05 AM Longbow: noone touched it.. I am going to check now!
01:07 AM IchGucksLive: im off
01:19 AM Longbow: hih, I cannot fint that setting
01:19 AM Longbow: maybe is in G code format :P
01:27 AM Longbow: g96 g97
01:28 AM miss0r: yeah
01:28 AM miss0r: g96 can be used for constant surface speed
01:29 AM miss0r: G97 constant spindle speed, G96 constand surface speed
01:37 AM Longbow: it is set to g97 but still nativecam alters the set spindle speed and g1 speeds
01:37 AM Longbow: is there any PDF or readme about setting the nativeCAM? :)
01:39 AM miss0r: I'm sure there is, but I don't know nativeCAM ;)
01:43 AM Loetmichel: hmm, anyone an idea if a 1/8" mill bit and a 6mm mill bit is enough to mill a notebook enclosure out of a 25mm thick AlMg3 billet? or should i order a few in between (maybe 4 and 5 mm?) For manufacturing time i mean.
01:47 AM gloops: no nativecam tutorials on youtube?
01:47 AM Loetmichel: hmm?
01:48 AM gloops: for Longbows question
01:48 AM Longbow: gloops: There are, but I cannot find a manual per se or some readme
01:49 AM gloops: a lot of these apps dont have much 'official# documentation, but loads of stuff put out by enthusiasts
01:49 AM Loetmichel: i know HOW to make that enclosure. i just have no feeling how long it will take to clean out the interiour with a 6mm mill bit and then with a 3mm. and if its useful to buy a few steps in between
01:49 AM Loetmichel: ah, sorry
01:49 AM Longbow: I mean, it is relatively easy to use but it has somw quirks
01:50 AM Longbow: what notebook enclosure are you making?
01:50 AM gloops: ive not used it at all so cant help
01:50 AM Longbow: no problem ;)
01:51 AM gloops: ichsguckslive knows it i think, he has some tutorials on his youtube channel
01:51 AM miss0r: Loetmichel: Are you asking about deflection?
01:51 AM Loetmichel: longbow: i will copy the enclosure of a 15" rugged notebook in full metal, no plastic
01:52 AM Loetmichel: miss0r: no, i am purely thinking about the time that it will take to clean out the corners
01:52 AM Longbow: wow, nice modification :D
01:52 AM miss0r: Loetmichel: realy depends on your tool path. Are you running a hypermill or simular?
01:52 AM Longbow: have you already copied out the design and dimensions?
01:52 AM Loetmichel: Deskproto
01:53 AM Longbow: Regarding the mill... I would start with the biggest that I could work with then smaller ones for finishing
01:53 AM Loetmichel: yes, our designer made the modified 3d model. will soon order the billet and then start makign the toolpaths.
01:53 AM gloops: must be options to set speeds in nativecam, surely it just just use arbitrary numbers
01:53 AM Longbow: but if you are making only one piece than its ok to use a smaller one and consume a little more time :P
01:53 AM Loetmichel: i was just ordering new mill bits, hence the question
01:54 AM miss0r: Loetmichel: I'm not sure what engine that software runs. Does it have something simular to the adaptive stuff in fusion?
01:54 AM Longbow: gloops: yes in nativecam you can set speeds, but it will modify them on the fly by itself.
01:56 AM miss0r: Loetmichel: what radius are you planning to finish the inside corners at?
01:56 AM Loetmichel: miss0r: the preocess of making the toolpaths is relatively easy. i just have no idea how long it will take to clean the corners with a 3mm mill and if it is useful to have some "in between" sizes of mill bit for that
01:57 AM Loetmichel: miss0r: 1.5mm ;)
01:57 AM miss0r: Thats small :] at 25mm depth? :D
01:57 AM Loetmichel: a bit less
01:58 AM Loetmichel: but yeah, the mill bits can do that
01:58 AM miss0r: you'd need a 2mm endmill to do a proper job at that. But that is a ridiculous stickout
01:58 AM Loetmichel: i cant use bigger mill bits than 1/4" though, because CNC 6040 china router :-)
01:58 AM gloops: i dont know what freecad paths are like atm, i have generated code using it which looked ok, but never run anyway
01:58 AM gloops: ichs made some improvements recently
01:59 AM miss0r: you are going to scrub it out with a 6mm?
02:00 AM Deejay: moin
02:00 AM miss0r: Loetmichel ^
02:00 AM miss0r: mornin'
02:00 AM Loetmichel: yes, i will
02:00 AM Loetmichel: will take a while
02:01 AM Loetmichel: especially because the mill cant possibly do more than about 1mm doc with a 6mm bit. its not rigid enough for more ;)
02:01 AM miss0r: Indeed :] I would probally use a 4mm for the corners before I install the 2mm one. You'd need a very small tool load with that stickout
02:01 AM Loetmichel: i know
02:02 AM miss0r: also, I would order 10 of them :D
02:02 AM Loetmichel: of course i will not order a single bit
02:02 AM miss0r: ;)
02:02 AM miss0r: Didn't think you would. Its just my way of saying, they are gonna have a hard life
02:03 AM Loetmichel: i have already about 4 lbs of tungsten carbide scrap in the shop...
02:03 AM gloops: the Swedes are calling the cold weather the 'snow canon'
02:03 AM miss0r: Loetmichel: You can send the billet to me, I will rough it out for'ya :]
02:03 AM Loetmichel: and thats mostly with 1/8" mill bit shafts
02:03 AM gloops: the Brits are calling it 'the Beast from the East'
02:03 AM miss0r: I use thoes to make some metal scripers from time to time
02:03 AM gloops: the Dutch call it the 'siberian bear'
02:04 AM Loetmichel: i make D-bits from the scrap occasionally when i need a special one
02:04 AM gloops: the Finns call it 'Friday' lol
02:04 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15847
02:04 AM Loetmichel: like that
02:04 AM miss0r: indeed.
02:05 AM miss0r: Sure. Good for alot of stuff
02:05 AM miss0r: My god. that scrubbing operation will take that mill of yours forever
02:06 AM Loetmichel: or that: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8961 (yes, i do that freehand)
02:06 AM Loetmichel: it will
02:06 AM Loetmichel: its just a prototype though. if customer will order it in numbers we will outsource the milling
02:07 AM miss0r: My milling services are available to you ;)
02:08 AM Loetmichel: i would like to do one in titanium alloy one day. but not on that machine. :_)
02:08 AM miss0r: lol, yeah. not on that machine :]
02:09 AM miss0r: not a bad machine for the price though
02:09 AM Loetmichel: you know: one of the "bulletproof" designs
02:09 AM Loetmichel: yeah, its very good for its price point.
02:09 AM Loetmichel: but no match for a datron or similar.
02:10 AM Loetmichel: and you would be surprised how far you can push a cheap gantry like that.
02:12 AM miss0r: you could just reenforce it?
02:12 AM Loetmichel: i once even made a 2mm wide 10mm deep slot into a 100mm by 500mm by 15mm hot rolled steel slab
02:12 AM Loetmichel: (i use that to fold my origami enclosures)
02:12 AM miss0r: :o
02:13 AM Loetmichel: even if i would reinforce it. the 800W HF-spindle hasnt enough torque for anything bigger than 6mm mill bits.
02:15 AM miss0r: Couldn't you reinforce it & install one of thoes 3kw spindles? That would put it into a new league
02:15 AM Loetmichel: i could, probably
02:15 AM * miss0r pads his 22kw spindle
02:16 AM Loetmichel: but if i have to play in that league i will tell the boss that he has to shell out a "bit" more money for a real CNC mill
02:16 AM miss0r: I've never ever ever ever come even close to using that amount of power on it
02:16 AM Loetmichel: preferably a german one ;)
02:16 AM miss0r: Indeed :]
02:17 AM miss0r: We spoke breafly about an enclosure the other day. If I draw you a sketch, could you look at it and tell me why it is a horrible idea/what to change? Then I will most likely machine it myself here
02:17 AM Loetmichel: considering that it took 3 years to convince him that my homemade CNC isnt meant to do 8hr a day 5 days a week though...
02:17 AM miss0r: lol
02:17 AM Loetmichel: yes, i carried my home mill to the company for 3 years.
02:18 AM Loetmichel: of course i could
02:18 AM miss0r: I hope your boss took notice of that
02:18 AM Loetmichel: he did
02:18 AM Loetmichel: its REALLY small though
02:19 AM miss0r: his notice or your homemill? :]
02:19 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
02:19 AM Loetmichel: the mill
02:19 AM Loetmichel: 200mm*110mm*110mm travel
02:19 AM miss0r: I can see. pretty powerfull spindle for such a small machine?
02:20 AM * gloops wont wire another electrics board up inside a box
02:20 AM Loetmichel: same 800W HF spindle as on the CNC 6040
02:21 AM miss0r: cute one. I'm thinking of buying a 2kw spindle, and make a tool to attach it to my cnc. I only have 4000rpm on my spindle. Now ideal for small endmills
02:21 AM miss0r: s/now/not*
02:22 AM Loetmichel: yes. and considering how much the usual mill manufacturers call for a "gear up" insert for the main spindle thats a cheaper alternative
02:24 AM miss0r: Indeed. I've looked at one of thoes. It has a nasty pricetag
02:24 AM gloops: ill get a 1.5kw for my router, which has 800w fitted, 800w is fine for winkle-picking with wood, could do with a little more for profiling etc, the 800w will go on my lathe
02:26 AM miss0r: I'll jump into the car and go pick up my SK 40 - ER11 collect now. See you later
02:27 AM gloops: the 3nm steppers on the router X axis will be replaced by closed loop steppers, the old steppers go on the lathe, nothing is wasted
02:32 AM gloops: if these 2 machines work, and pay, ill consider investing properly in an 8x4 build
02:33 AM Loetmichel: gloops: as i said above: the 800W on the CNC 6040 had done mild stell... it IS possible
02:33 AM Loetmichel: steel
02:33 AM Loetmichel: takes a while though
02:34 AM gloops: Loetmichel i did some limited testing on ally with the 800w spindle, it seemed fine with light cuts, normal speeds
02:34 AM gloops: i will get a bigger spindle though, you can hog mdf out in 1 pass at top speed instead of multiple passes
02:36 AM Loetmichel: yeah, when i face off my vacuum table (paper reinforced resin) with the 25mm router bit it noticeably drops in rpm... and thats a few 1/10mm deep cut
02:37 AM Loetmichel: on that account:
02:37 AM * Loetmichel orders a few more 10mm FR2 sheets... vacuum table top is down to 4mm again... getting weak.
02:39 AM Loetmichel: its funny to drill the ~ 20k holes in it after mounting a new to sheet... takes a while :-)
02:39 AM Loetmichel: +p
02:40 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14682
02:40 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14685
02:40 AM Loetmichel: :-)
02:40 AM gloops: on a larger area the time is a considerable factor, on a 4x3 sheet the difference between 1 pass and 2 or 3 passes is an eternity
02:41 AM Loetmichel: (stepped holes, 1/8" 90% thru the plate, then 0.8mm all the way thru
02:41 AM gloops: that looks a sturdy enough machine Loet
02:42 AM Loetmichel: 600*400mm table/travel, an 1/8!" hole every 5mm :-)
02:43 AM gloops: 600x400 covers a lot, unless you are cutting multiple parts from one sheet or something it probably covers most jobs
02:44 AM Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEQZ_TY5q8o <- milling its (back then) MDF sacrificial plate for the first time...
02:45 AM Loetmichel: with said 25mm router bit
02:46 AM Loetmichel: *HEAPS* of brown dust everywhere ;)
02:47 AM Loetmichel: in reality its only 579mm by 395mm travel though. Chinese manufacturerers seem to round up in their descriptions ;)
02:49 AM gloops: that reminds me ive got a dust extractor on watch list
02:51 AM gloops: £100 new, looks like theyre going to get to over £60 on ebay lol
02:51 AM gloops: getting to the point where you may as well buy new
02:54 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-phase-Fercell-woodworking-dust-chip-extractor/173169276324?
02:54 AM gloops: but of course, too far away, pro model £1
03:00 AM {HD}: What type of cheap Chinese laser will cut through plywood? How many mw should I be looking for?
03:02 AM Loetmichel: you'll need at least 5W, better 20W for 4mm plywood
03:02 AM gloops: k40
03:03 AM {HD}: Wow
03:05 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/k40-laser-cutter/183091925403?
03:06 AM Loetmichel: *harhar* freelancer just came in. "Morning Lothar! You glasses are pretty bent, how did that happen?" "ah, i fell a few days ago, have to buy new (prescription) glasses." $me:"give it to me for a second." pulled the Leaterman wave from the holster, bent it back into shape, put the wave back into the (3dprinted) holster... "test it. better?" "YES, much better, thank you"... I LOVE my little
03:06 AM Loetmichel: Leatherman wave. (only thing that was missing was a signature move when putting it back into the holster ;)
03:13 AM {HD}: The k40 looks neat but the ones I am seeing with us shipping at 1000$
03:17 AM gloops: well, no real excuse not to go out in this, even though there was 50cm of snow in some parts lol
03:17 AM gloops: not so cold, so off i go
04:18 AM XXCoder is now known as XXCoder_nowisthi
04:18 AM XXCoder_nowisthi is now known as XXCoder
04:29 AM jthornton-: morning
04:29 AM XXCoder: hibye
05:38 AM Tom_L: 33F
05:42 AM jthornton: 36°F and clear... looks like a good weather weekend
05:44 AM miss0r: ahhhh <- the sound of pleasure. I just got my new SK 40 ER11 collect chuck. I have it running at 60rpm, with a 0.001mm dial indicator on it, and I cannot for the life of me see any needle movement. and i'm measuering 30mm out of the chuck on a dowel pin. This is a serious improvement from the chinesium I had before. You just gotta love kemmler, good'ol german quality
05:45 AM XXCoder: jthornton: it might snow here again lol
05:46 AM XXCoder: miss0r: nice!~
05:47 AM SpeedEvil: miss0r: yay!
05:47 AM jthornton: the weekend looks nice high's mid 50's and clear... maybe it will dry up a bit
05:47 AM jthornton: miss0r: cool
05:47 AM SpeedEvil: miss0r: but the aliexpress ones say actually 0.0mm runout.
05:47 AM SpeedEvil: :)
05:47 AM XXCoder: infinity precision
05:47 AM XXCoder: tru;y, chineseium is advanced
05:48 AM miss0r: SpeedEvil: My equipment must not be acurate enough to realy get a good measurement on the chinesium, so i'm sure the fault is with me
05:48 AM miss0r: The one I was using before was a chinesium ER11 collect on a 10mm shank, that was then chucked up in an ER32 SK40 collect.
05:49 AM miss0r: whenever I had to use the ER32 for something else, and had to reinstall the ER11 shank, I had to spend 5 mins banging it around to get it somewhat concentric
05:51 AM jthornton: anyone used DBAN to test a new hard drive?
05:56 AM jthornton: thinking of getting a couple of these for my nas https://www.amazon.com/HGST-DeskStar-High-Performance-Packaging-0S04005/dp/B01N7YOH4P
06:05 AM miss0r: Most harddrives live a long time if you just remember to turn the 'spin down' function in your nas
06:06 AM miss0r: I've been doing this stuff for alot of years, on mediam sized server parks. I've seen this a million times: people do not disable that function, and it cuts the lifespan of a harddrive down to 1/3
06:07 AM miss0r: Why not seagate btw? They are notoriously long lived
06:07 AM SpeedEvil: Also - remember RAID
06:07 AM miss0r: absolutly!
06:07 AM miss0r: I thought that goes without say
06:08 AM jthornton: spin down? on or off?
06:08 AM SpeedEvil: The takeaway from the backblaze numbers that I got was pretty much that the reliability of no hard drive was particularly better enough to make the failure rate other than a statistical interest.
06:08 AM miss0r: jthornton: The idea is, that the NAS does some power saving by spinning down the disks, you do NOT want that
06:08 AM SpeedEvil: jthornton: always spinning
06:08 AM jthornton: ah ok
06:09 AM jthornton: yea I was looking at this https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-stats-for-2017/
06:10 AM jthornton: ok disk spin-down is no enabled by default on the netgear readynas
06:11 AM miss0r: I have an 'older' 5 bay qnap something... I can't recall running raid-5. The same seagate disks in there for 3 years now. And theres alot of read/write activity all the time
06:11 AM jthornton: I have two 2TB drives and they are over 1/2 full lol
06:11 AM jthornton: it's running RAID 1
06:11 AM jthornton: what does that mean?
06:11 AM miss0r: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID <- please read this
06:12 AM miss0r: raid 1 is just mirroring
06:14 AM miss0r: jthornton: If you have a two bay nas, you want raid 1. end of story :]
06:14 AM jthornton: yea that seems to be the only raid choice on this nas
06:15 AM miss0r: unless you like to live dangerously, and choose raid0
06:15 AM miss0r: samsung disks are also acceptable, but they run a bit hotter than seagate
06:21 AM jthornton: https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-IronWolf-3-5-Inch-Internal-ST6000VN0041/dp/B01LZDFMWQ
06:22 AM jthornton: finally a chicken bullet appears on camera
06:25 AM miss0r: Damn disks have grown in size / shrunk in price since the last time I ordered disks :D
06:26 AM jthornton: https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-IronWolf-3-5-Inch-Internal-ST6000VN0041/dp/B01M1BUBSO/
06:26 AM jthornton: $50 more for 8TB
06:27 AM miss0r: Yeah well. I've found that after netflix HBO nordic ect. My local storage needs have diminished somewhat :)
06:29 AM jthornton: most of my use is saved old hard drives
06:30 AM miss0r: Most of what I have there these days are a few websites, some offsite backup & my own cad/cam
06:32 AM miss0r: My workstation has 5 SSD running raid 1. They are only 256gb each, and I only have'em because I took down a ridiculous server and gutted it. anyway - that computer is faster than a hot damn when it comes to loading stuff
06:32 AM jthornton: cool
06:32 AM sync: I just have a few nvme ssds now
06:33 AM miss0r: nvme?
06:34 AM sync: pcie ssds
06:35 AM miss0r: ahh. You should get this one: 763840-B21
06:35 AM miss0r: Most ridiculous thing i've seen in a long time
06:35 AM sync: why?
06:36 AM miss0r: 6.4tb PCIe x8 ssd... But it lists at ~50k eur
06:37 AM sync: more like 10k
06:37 AM miss0r: Depends on where you look, i guess
06:39 AM miss0r: people running as nas with less that two disks... its beyond me
07:34 AM miss0r: Don't you just love it when your costumers have a ridiculous timetable on paying bills? The one I just sent to has running month + 60 days lol
07:35 AM Loetmichel: 30 days flat is normal here in germany i believe
07:36 AM Loetmichel: but if you do much government work....
07:36 AM Loetmichel: ... i have heard from our accountat that we have open bills for 6 months to govt agencys from time to time
07:37 AM Loetmichel: and no, its not disputed, they are just that slow
08:42 AM roycroft: has the price of steel gone way up in the us yet?
08:43 AM * roycroft has a project upcoming and wonders if he should try to procure materials this weekend
08:46 AM methods_: it's been going up for awhile now
08:46 AM methods_: even the rumors of this stupidity were causing alum and steel to rise prior to this
08:47 AM methods_: i wouldn't freak out too much yet the moron has a track record of not doing the stuff that flops out of his cock holster
08:48 AM roycroft: i don't know if the tariffs will actually be imposed
08:48 AM roycroft: the president doesn't know that
08:48 AM methods_: right that's why i'm saying i wouldn't start hoarding steel yet
08:48 AM roycroft: and until he makes up his mind it is not going to happen
08:48 AM roycroft: but the market reacts to rumors
08:48 AM methods_: and it is
08:48 AM roycroft: i'm not considering hoarding
08:49 AM roycroft: i'm pondering purchasing for the next project and only for that project right now instead of in a few weeks
08:49 AM roycroft: i don't think that constitutes hoarding :)
08:49 AM methods_: like i said he has a track record of not follwoing thru
08:49 AM methods_: so in a couple weeks we could be importing more metal for even cheaper
08:49 AM methods_: who knows
08:49 AM roycroft: yes, but if the price goes up, it will likely not go back down to the previous level
08:49 AM methods_: he's good at making deals though
08:50 AM methods_: i'm sure the deals he makes are going to be great
08:50 AM roycroft: if it goes up 25% it might drop down 10% when this blows over
08:50 AM methods_: /sarcasm
08:50 AM methods_: yeah
08:50 AM roycroft: who ever knew that international trade was this complicated?
08:50 AM methods_: i guess it all depends on the timeline of your project
08:50 AM methods_: hehe
08:51 AM methods_: who knew
08:51 AM methods_: it's impossible to know these things
08:51 AM roycroft: probably early- to mid-april
08:51 AM methods_: some people are saying that trade wars are good
08:51 AM roycroft: it really is upcoming soon
08:51 AM roycroft: i'm not an isolationist
08:51 AM roycroft: i believe in fair trade
08:51 AM roycroft: not unfettered free trade
08:52 AM roycroft: i believe in supporting the local economy as much as possible
08:52 AM roycroft: but not refusing to buy goods from far away
08:52 AM roycroft: i have this maddening attitude of being practical and looking at trade agreements on their merit, not based on tribal ideology
08:53 AM roycroft: it pisses people off
08:53 AM roycroft: because i'm not part of their tribe
08:53 AM roycroft: but i'm also not part of the other tribe
08:53 AM roycroft: and they don't know how to deal with me because of that
08:54 AM roycroft: whether the proposed tariffs make sense or not i do now know at this point
08:54 AM roycroft: but neither does the president, as evidenced by the totally ad hoc nature of the announcement
08:54 AM gregcnc: most of our imported steel comes from Canada?
08:54 AM roycroft: all i knwo is that i have to buy some steel son
08:54 AM roycroft: soon
08:55 AM roycroft: that's quite plausible, gregcnc
08:55 AM gregcnc: like 87% of it
08:56 AM roycroft: since the president is not currently building any skyscrapers, it's quite possible that most of our steel comes from canada and not from china
08:56 AM roycroft: he uses chinese steel for his buildings
08:57 AM methods_: gregcnc: it actually comes from china
08:57 AM methods_: they send to it to mexico and china
08:57 AM gregcnc: through canada?
08:57 AM methods_: oops mexico and canada
08:57 AM methods_: yah
08:58 AM methods_: well at least that's what our metal vendors tell me
08:58 AM gregcnc: and the COO just changes when it arrives at the middle man?
08:58 AM methods_: yeah i you look at the metal you'll see it all originated in china
08:58 AM methods_: at least our distributors
08:59 AM roycroft: they clean the "smells like china" goop off of it and designated it as manufactured then?
08:59 AM methods_: china floods all the other markets
08:59 AM methods_: if you tarriff them they'll just flood the rest of the world
09:00 AM methods_: they may uncoil and cut to length in canada to say it's coo is canada
09:00 AM methods_: but the metal was made in china
09:01 AM * roycroft only needs about $150 worth of steel for this upcoming project, and will probably not worry about getting it now, as the penalty won't be that great
09:02 AM gregcnc: the trade reports seem to say otherwise, but who knows
09:02 AM roycroft: the percentage may be significant
09:02 AM roycroft: but the dollar amount not that great for such a small quantity
09:03 AM methods_: https://www.steel-technology.com/articles/steel-producing-companies-of-the-world
09:03 AM methods_: you would think with canada supplying 84% of the us's steel there would be more of those large producers from canada
09:04 AM gregcnc: it's all relative, and China can probaly say whatever they want about capacity
09:04 AM roycroft: the president should just put together a panel of the smartest people and tell them to figure out how to make steel from coal cheaply, so the coal miners can go back to work and the steel mills reopen
10:02 AM heathmanc: Hello everyone!
10:03 AM Deejay: hey there
10:03 AM jesseg: howdy heathmanc
10:04 AM heathmanc: I was browsing the for the for sale section and it doesn't look like many people visit there at all
10:04 AM heathmanc: I've got a ton of Mesa and Allen Bradley stuff to offload
10:05 AM heathmanc: the Mesa stuff is all new, but I don't think that area gets much attention
10:06 AM heathmanc: I started a couple of projects that never came to fruition and collected a ton of stuff that I want out of my life
10:24 AM roycroft: heathmac: ebay?
10:24 AM heathmanc: I hate ebay, I'm in the process of making a post right now in the forums.
10:24 AM roycroft: oh well
10:25 AM jdh: I'll pay shipping. send it here.
10:26 AM heathmanc: I'm cheap, but not that cheap. I posted the items to the forum, if that doesn't work I'll consider ebay
10:26 AM heathmanc: I didn't realize I was collecting this much stuff really. My wife kept telling me so, but I don't listen well.
10:27 AM heathmanc: had a Taig that I was converting, and a G0704. Just going to buy a machine when I get moved back to the states.
10:27 AM jdh: common male trait
10:28 AM heathmanc: Well, I would say so, but I've only listed part of what I've got lying around. None of the AB servos, Ametek servos, other nema23 servos
10:28 AM heathmanc: I spend too much time playing and not enough time being productive
10:29 AM jdh: I don't actually want it, even for shipping. too much crap of my own.
10:48 AM fragalot: hi
10:48 AM heathmanc: Howdy
10:48 AM fragalot: it's miserable out today.. not quite raining, not quite snowing,.. more like liquid ice falling from the sky
10:49 AM heathmanc: Work was cancelled here today and yesterday (England)
10:49 AM fragalot: not quite that bad here :D
10:54 AM roycroft: i had to drive through some pretty heavy snow in the mountains on my way to work today
10:54 AM roycroft: but it's not snowy here in the valley
12:19 PM jdh: 70f and sunny
01:02 PM miss0r: fragalot! Have you cast that epoxy of yours yet?
01:02 PM fragalot: haven't even ordered it!
01:03 PM miss0r: my god, why!
01:03 PM fragalot: a distinct lack of €
01:03 PM miss0r: ahh.. I just ordered some NSK linear rails for a job. Thoes were damn expensive :/
01:03 PM fragalot: Yup. :-)
01:04 PM miss0r: The sweet sweet days of ordering chinesium for this are over
01:04 PM fragalot: my cash vaporized, and then materialized in the electronics, actuators and rails for mine :P
01:04 PM fragalot: haha,.. yeah.
01:04 PM fragalot: chinesium is fine for DIY, but that's abou tit
01:05 PM miss0r: yeah
01:05 PM gregcnc: fun when it's not your money
01:05 PM miss0r: gregcnc: for the time being it is. I need to install it and have a happy customer before I can send an invoice
01:06 PM fragalot: miss0r: and they'll take up to 3 months to pay that invoice
01:06 PM fragalot: or whatever the legal term is in DK
01:06 PM gregcnc: they don't get that for free on purchase parts i hope
01:06 PM miss0r: not this particular client. I've only given them 14 days of credit
01:07 PM miss0r: but the job itself will take a few weeks to complete
01:08 PM fragalot: it's fun though to see just how quickly prices skyrocket when building machines to what the customer asks,r ather than what they need
01:08 PM gregcnc: depends if you or they know better?
01:09 PM gloops: always take a deposit
01:09 PM fragalot: it's mostly a case of the purchasing department being out of touch with what the process requires
01:09 PM miss0r: I told them they did not know what they wanted. So i'm doing the "cheap", simple and rigid solution
01:10 PM miss0r: They wanted a 3axis robot to do what a padded bocked on a linear slide could do just as easily
01:10 PM fragalot: "we want a fixed post with a swinging hinge and manual height adjustment in stainless steel, also it must be accurate to 0.1mm with a supported load of 500kg"
01:10 PM fragalot: or, what they needed in reality:
01:11 PM fragalot: "we want something that bolts on to the existing walkway that only needs to move during initial installation with an accuracy of +/-1cm"
01:11 PM miss0r: lol
01:12 PM roycroft: you must not deny the customer the pleasure of having a robot, whether it's otherwise needed or not
01:13 PM miss0r: roycroft: They have plenty of robots. But in this case you can't even see it.
01:13 PM roycroft: paint it hot pink
01:13 PM fragalot: xD
01:13 PM roycroft: when the customer says "i wants robot" you give them a robot
01:14 PM gloops: when the customer says 'i want a robot' you say - sign here pal
01:14 PM fragalot: that depends on the service you're providing, imho.
01:14 PM miss0r: The problem is: They wanted a robot to hold the cutoff part of a round silicium rod with a vacuum pad. The issue is: The location of the robot is stationary, as is the blade. The workpeice is lifted into the cutter. That is one issue to compensate for. The other is, they are manually ajusting the thickness of said workpeice from time to time, with no real way of telling the robot
01:15 PM fragalot: parametric motion
01:15 PM miss0r: because they do not own the program for the PLC controller on this machine.
01:16 PM fragalot: how does the single axis motion solve that?
01:16 PM miss0r: fragalot: i'm not saying it can't be done. don't get me wrong. I'm just saying, you may as well have a padded bucket in there to catch it
01:16 PM fragalot: :P
01:16 PM miss0r: it allows for the cutoff to drop into said bucket, then move the bucket out
01:17 PM miss0r: 'bucket' in lack of a better word
01:17 PM fragalot: i've done a lot of applications where the customer insists on a robot arm with video tracking to spray on objects on a conveyor.. where the objects are always in a predictable location and the conveyor moves in the correct direction for the objects to be fully coated.
01:17 PM fragalot: mount nozzles above conveyor, add encoder, voila. €60k savings.
01:19 PM miss0r: but theres no steppers & linear movement in your setup. No sex appeal
01:19 PM fragalot: sure there is
01:19 PM fragalot: the conveyor is the linear motion part :P
01:20 PM miss0r: I wouldn't call the conveyor at the cashier in the supermarket sex appeal, so I rest my case :P
01:21 PM fragalot: if you rest your case, does that mean I win?
01:21 PM miss0r: unfortunatly, yes :-(
01:21 PM gloops: thing is, if i go to buy anything made to measure, doors, windows, kitchen - nobody lets me order without seeing some cash, tradesmen are not banks or credit companies, its good practice to a) have a contract printed, several maybe for different situations, and ALWAYS get it signed b) always ask for a deposit to cover the costs
01:23 PM fragalot: at a previous job i've walked into TONS of supply warehouses, grabbing what I need, saying "just invoice it to company X" and they nod & I walk out
01:23 PM fragalot: all they require is that you've paid the first order in full
01:23 PM miss0r: sweet
01:25 PM gloops: thats ok if youre a supply warehouse, because they probably stock up on sale or return
01:25 PM fragalot: part of me has always wondered though how that system is not abused like hell
01:25 PM miss0r: Probally is
01:25 PM fragalot: maybe
01:25 PM gloops: being a considerate sucker doesnt work for small service providers
01:26 PM fragalot: as for custom made stuff, usually 10/30/30/30 split
01:26 PM fragalot: 10% on order, 30% after production, 30% on delivery, and 30% after successful start-up
01:28 PM gloops: first payment i dropped, many years ago, solicitor said - right wheres the contract - what contract? - ahh
01:28 PM gloops: put it down to experience lad
01:29 PM fragalot: the order IS the contract..
01:29 PM gloops: what form does the order take ?
01:29 PM fragalot: paper, email, fax
01:30 PM gloops: 'when are you coming to do that job?' you mean like that?
01:31 PM fragalot: you get called for a job, make a quotation for said job, and they either accept or don't
01:31 PM fragalot: if there is no quotation, an agreement is made to work at a known hourly rate.
01:32 PM gloops: yes, alls im saying is, this needs to be put formally, job description, price for that, signature
01:32 PM fragalot: sure
01:33 PM gloops: 2 minutes, probably never be looked at again, but the time will come when you rely on it
01:36 PM MrHindsight: fragalot: whats the difference between after production and on delivery? Do you stock finished custom parts for customers?
01:36 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: after production means we say it's done & they can send a truck to pick it up
01:37 PM fragalot: or we deliver
01:37 PM fragalot: depending on the agreed terms
01:37 PM MrHindsight: so minutes to a few days difference
01:38 PM jdh: we do factory acceptance + site acceptance
01:38 PM fragalot: those numbers were just examples pulled out of my arse
01:38 PM MrHindsight: ah
01:38 PM gregcnc: do they hold delivery until it's paid?
01:38 PM MrHindsight: thats makes sense
01:38 PM fragalot: :P
01:39 PM MrHindsight: jdh: we do the same
01:40 PM andypugh: I am failing at the first hurdle with my 7i80DB
01:40 PM fragalot: christ I just looked at the news and i'm happy I left work early today
01:40 PM fragalot: 4hr traffic jam between work & home
01:40 PM gregcnc: media is having fun with tariffs "your beer and coke will cost more"
01:41 PM jdh: usually a payment for vendor receipt of major commercial items
01:41 PM MrHindsight: has anyone used two steppers to wind and unwind a roll? A stepper at each end of the roll, so one becomes master (pulls) and the other a slave (tensioner) ?
01:41 PM gloops: larger concerns have sophisticated accountancy systems, cash flow is monitored, debts are analysed, ok you may have what is actually a good customer but just a slow payer, thats fine, but other types are flagged up, bad debts are accounted for and allowed for as a cost
01:41 PM gloops: small guy - none of that, 1 hit can be devastating
01:41 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: no, only DC motors with current based control
01:41 PM fragalot: on the "pull" end
01:43 PM fragalot: gloops: previous owner of my friends' new workshop worked until his 75 to work off debts caused by a few bad customers
01:43 PM fragalot: that guy slaved deep into the night too just to be able to retire without leaving his children in debt
01:44 PM gloops: poor sod
01:44 PM jdh: you don't inherit debt
01:44 PM fragalot: jdh: yes you do
01:44 PM gloops: we dont here
01:44 PM fragalot: you do here
01:45 PM fragalot: if you accept it (unless you've talked to the guy that died, or know him very well, you can't know)
01:45 PM jdh: that would be absurd
01:45 PM gloops: i think it is the case in some places, switzerland i think
01:46 PM gloops: in switzerland you get a dynasty mortgage, the kids inherit the house - and keep paying the mortgage, because houses are too expensive for most to pay off in a lifetime
01:47 PM jdh: that is an asset with a lien. not a debt
01:47 PM roycroft: one can inherit an estate, and be responsible for the estate's debt if one chooses
01:47 PM roycroft: generally an estate's debts are paid off before the estate is passed on though
01:47 PM gloops: yes it is, i suppose the kids could sell the house/debt
01:49 PM jdh: the estate is what is left after debts are paid.
01:49 PM MrHindsight: that is what trusts are for
01:56 PM gloops: ahh well, wife just got back, after phoning to say she'd broke down
01:56 PM phipli: she dragged the car home?
01:57 PM gloops: AAman rattled petrol tank, car started lol
01:57 PM gloops: sticking fuel pump
01:57 PM fragalot: phipli: don't be daft, you push them.
01:57 PM phipli: generally I use fire
01:57 PM phipli: but the scars still show
01:57 PM gloops: phipli she would have done but no rope in car
01:58 PM fragalot: you're not allowed to use ropes anymore here, has to be a rigid bar
01:58 PM MrHindsight: was watching BBC news 12 hours ago, looks like you had ~7" (18cm) of snow?
01:58 PM gloops: i think thats the case here, i was thinking of hand dragging though heh
01:59 PM phipli: MrHindsight, we had about 4"
01:59 PM fragalot: gloops: would be interesting, having to stop to turn the wheel periodically xD
01:59 PM gloops: 50cm in some places i heard, MrHindsight
01:59 PM fragalot: or turn the wheel mr bean style with another rope
02:00 PM phipli: walked to work today instead of cycling
02:00 PM gloops: she had a mini she used to push to the end of the road - then bump start it down the hill lol
02:00 PM fragalot: :P
02:00 PM phipli: regretted it - it took forever
02:00 PM MrHindsight: gloops: that sounds more like why the roads were jammed
02:01 PM gloops: MrHindsight i took a video with cell phone of local road but fragalot didnt like it
02:01 PM phipli: ?
02:01 PM gloops: using phone in car
02:02 PM MrHindsight: gloops: saw it, we get that much snow all the time here
02:03 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: you are allowed to use the right tyres for that environment though
02:03 PM MrHindsight: gloops: is snow that unusual there over 1-2" at a time?
02:03 PM phipli: We don't get snow every year
02:03 PM fragalot: studs & chains are not allowed here
02:03 PM gloops: 4-6 inch isnt so common
02:04 PM gloops: apparently we have record stocks of road salt and grit, they definitely dont use it like they used to though, none of the minor roads gets done round here
02:05 PM MrHindsight: plowing and salting can mena the difference between being voted out of office or not
02:05 PM MrHindsight: mena/mean
02:05 PM phipli: gloops, they were throwing it around like it was going out of fashion here
02:06 PM fragalot: my road is one of the few 'round here that doesn't get gritted
02:06 PM phipli: footpaths had a half inch of salt on them almost
02:06 PM gloops: phipli they only do the main roads here, they used to clear all the small roads as well
02:06 PM fragalot: I don't think it would help though, there's not enough traffic
02:06 PM phipli: gloops, I'm not saying they distributed it sensibly and universally
02:07 PM phipli: just random footpaths had tonnes of salt
02:07 PM phipli: others had naff all
02:08 PM gloops: this is a very safe seat politically, i dont think the council are bothered, theyll vote the same way whatever they do
02:08 PM andypugh: I drive a lot in snow as part of my job. This slushy stuff we get here is harder to deal with than proper cold snow like you get in Finland or the Alps.
02:08 PM phipli: I live in Margaret Beckett country
02:08 PM andypugh: But folk are still massiely over-reacting.
02:09 PM phipli: andypugh, are people over reacting, or are people over reacting to how people aren't over reacting
02:09 PM phipli: most people turned up at work
02:09 PM phipli: and everyone just got on with things
02:10 PM andypugh: Anyway. LinuxCNC .
02:10 PM phipli: lol
02:10 PM phipli: yes
02:10 PM andypugh: Why can’t I get my 7i80DB to connect
02:10 PM andypugh: ?
02:10 PM andypugh: I demand that you know!
02:10 PM phipli: is it plugged in?
02:10 PM MrHindsight: andypugh: plugged in a powered up? :)
02:10 PM MrHindsight: a/and
02:10 PM andypugh: Yes, and powered up
02:10 PM andypugh: I suspect that hm2_eth isn’t finding the network interface
02:11 PM phipli: have you put capacitors on things that probably need?
02:11 PM phipli: because, everyone knows, what you need, what you need, is a capacitor
02:12 PM phipli: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqk4ebXYnzI
02:15 PM andypugh: Hmm, e1000e is calling itsle en02 rather than eth0
02:15 PM gloops: my only claim to fame with linuxcnc is getting a 2 joint axis working, but nobody ever asks about that
02:18 PM phipli: does anyone here know about getting a 2 joint axis working?
02:18 PM MrHindsight: phipli: with LCNC? I think gloops knows
02:19 PM phipli: Excellent - I'll make a note to ask him next time he's online
02:20 PM JT-Shop: phipli: a two motor gantry is a piece of pie in 2.8 you only need to set a couple of things in the ini file
02:21 PM fragalot: JT-Shop: I heard you can even simulate it in freecad now
02:22 PM gloops: ahh yes, it might look easy..
02:22 PM JT-Shop: phipli: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini-homing.html#_home_sequence
02:22 PM JT-Shop: simulate what?
02:22 PM * fragalot thinks JT-Shop isn't in on the joke
02:22 PM * JT-Shop is still busy working and just popped by
02:22 PM gloops: to date only myself and someone on the forums has ever done it
02:23 PM fragalot: gloops: posted about it*
02:23 PM JT-Shop: gloops: done what?
02:23 PM gloops: 2 motors - 1 axis
02:24 PM JT-Shop: I did it back when it was a special branch
02:25 PM gloops: well, im not doubting you did JT-Shop, of course not, but any video evidence of this actually working?#
02:26 PM phipli: :)
03:05 PM gloops: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/01/dyson-hoovers-up-801m-profit-in-asian-spending-boom
03:07 PM gloops: Dyson hoovers up £801m profit in Asian spending boom
03:07 PM gloops: Almost 75% of growth comes from growing far east markets as Dyson sales hit £3.5bn
03:08 PM Rab: I would not have expected Asia to be a growth market for their overpriced stuff.
03:08 PM Rab: https://i.imgur.com/XOjT5px.jpg
03:08 PM MrHindsight: no they are stupid, they are well trained brand buyers, makes them feel like they have "made it"
03:09 PM gloops: seems to confirm the point about brexit though
03:09 PM fragalot: does it?
03:10 PM fragalot: I doubt brexit would have made any difference
03:10 PM gloops: certainly, the new markets are where its at
03:11 PM fragalot: they're already producing & selling the units in asia - how does brexit vs today make a difference there?
03:12 PM gloops: they produce here as well, dyson is paying his taxes here
03:13 PM gloops: its a good message anyway, another one started in his garage, you can do it
03:14 PM fragalot: he did market an existing technology very well, you have to give him that
03:15 PM fragalot: I do like my little battery powered dyson, works very well for something battery powered
03:16 PM gloops: making millions is not about being able to invent stuff
03:16 PM gloops: its about being good at business
03:16 PM fragalot: nope, it's all about being able to sell it
03:16 PM fragalot: no matter how good your product is, if you can't sell it it's worthless
03:16 PM fragalot: and if you're great at selling something, the product can be absolute dogshit too
03:17 PM jesseg: that's for sure
03:18 PM MrHindsight: it's about taking advantage of others after training them well to be non critical thinking consumers
03:18 PM MrHindsight: you just tap into it with your product or service
03:19 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: cyclone dust seperation is a lot more effective (uses less power than dust bag/filters)... drawback is that it doesent scale well
03:19 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: cyclone uses more power than a clean filter
03:19 PM Loetmichel: dysons usually have only "on" and "off"
03:19 PM fragalot: problem is that filters don't stay clean for long
03:20 PM fragalot: :p
03:20 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: as i said: it uses less power than a [full] filter ;)
03:20 PM jesseg: btw I am looking for a sweet deal on a dyson bladeless fan.. I want the turbine out of it to make a portable air/water gold dredge. The dyson part would of course deal with the air. Another pump would deal with the water.
03:20 PM JT-Shop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OtWNuLWfwc
03:20 PM JT-Shop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgNLd6A34Vo
03:20 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: that's one of the reasons that dyson actually sued the EU
03:21 PM fragalot: jesseg: could you not use an RC ducted fan?
03:22 PM XXCoder: jesseg: theres designs on thingverse
03:22 PM jesseg: fragalot, yeah probably could.
03:23 PM XXCoder: theres also cyclone designs on thingverse. I plan to print one of them few times
03:23 PM XXCoder: make a nice seqence like those cyclone vacuums have, for cnc router vacuum cleaning
03:23 PM fragalot: I quite like the thien baffle design for diy builds
03:23 PM fragalot: much harder to get it wrong
03:24 PM jesseg: I'm not too sure I'd want a 3D printed impeller going that fast
03:24 PM fragalot: where-as conical cyclones are very difficult to tune properly
03:24 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: also dyson usually has better fan designs and brushless motors, both things rise the efficiency quite a bit
03:24 PM XXCoder: https://www.thingiverse.com/tag:Cyclone/page:1
03:24 PM Loetmichel: jesseg: wimp. No risk no fun!"
03:24 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: the big dyson ball uses a panasonic fan/motor assembly
03:25 PM Loetmichel: better als the usual "bag" vacuum cleaner
03:25 PM Loetmichel: -l
03:25 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: more specifically, the panasonic sds1304gzd
03:26 PM Loetmichel: s/als/than
03:26 PM Loetmichel: german shows thru the cracks ;)
03:26 PM MrHindsight: methods_: is the nor’easter effecting you that far south?
03:27 PM XXCoder: its certainlu affecting weatgher here. not seriously though
03:27 PM jesseg: Loetmichel, call me a wuss, a wimp, and whatever else. I kind of like to keep my fingers for now if I may. :D
03:27 PM Loetmichel: hihi
03:27 PM Loetmichel: jesseg: i take it that your angle grinder also still has its shield?
03:28 PM XXCoder: this is extremely effective https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGajPIHQkI8
03:28 PM gloops: at a guess the numatic hoovers are more popular here
03:29 PM jesseg: Loetmichel, nope.. it was given to me, without the shield.. LOL.. shields may impair proper operation though. Having a tough impeller does not :D
03:29 PM Loetmichel: XXCoder: i doubt a normal coke bottle can withstand the forces involved if you hold your hand in front of the vacuum hose
03:30 PM XXCoder: dunno
03:30 PM fragalot: it won't
03:30 PM fragalot: I have a 4mm thick plastic food drum on mine and it collapses if I do that
03:30 PM XXCoder: it would be great for cnc for wood though
03:30 PM fragalot: so I put in a gravity operated pressure relief valve
03:30 PM XXCoder: as it shows it works great
03:30 PM XXCoder: fragalot: nice!
03:31 PM fragalot: opens up at ~320mbar, barrel collapses at 340 ish
03:31 PM MrHindsight: andypugh: please let us know what the problem was with the card
03:31 PM fragalot: it's very high-tech... (stack of washers on a bolt, lol)
03:31 PM XXCoder: fragalot: got video of it working?
03:31 PM fragalot: XXCoder: no
03:32 PM XXCoder: I guess its just tube with bolt and washers as "sealant"
03:32 PM fragalot: XXCoder: you can see it here, top left, to the left of the monitor. https://i.imgur.com/8GXUJxL.jpg
03:32 PM XXCoder: ok
03:33 PM XXCoder: does it reseal itself?
03:33 PM fragalot: the sealant is one of those rubber insert drain reducer jobbers, and the bolt has an aluminium cone on it to seat into the rubber
03:33 PM fragalot: yes
03:33 PM XXCoder: nice
03:33 PM andypugh: MrHindsight: What card?
03:34 PM XXCoder: I guess tweak weight till it stays seal under normal usage but opens before vacuum prunes the container
03:34 PM MrHindsight: andypugh: 7i80db
03:34 PM fragalot: XXCoder: I added washers until the barrel collapsed, then removed one
03:35 PM XXCoder: nice
03:35 PM andypugh: Ah right. hm2_eth instructions assume the adaptor is eth0, but newer linuxes use a more stable naming scheme and mine is eno2
03:35 PM andypugh: Following the manpage instructions using eno2 instead of eth1 got it working
03:36 PM MrHindsight: andypugh: yeah was wondering if tat was it, I think they changed names just to make it fun for everyone
03:36 PM fragalot: i'm off - cya
03:36 PM andypugh: It measn that the names don’t change on a reboot, so it’s probably good
03:37 PM XXCoder: I wonder if container size changes anything
03:37 PM XXCoder: ie if it works with coke bottle would it work with milk gallon bottle
04:04 PM Deejay: gn8
04:04 PM JT-Shop: debian has upped the anti on ethernet device names and now uses the mac address lol
04:06 PM roycroft: my stretch machines still use eth*
04:33 PM JT-Shop: I rebooted a jessie rpi and lost internet and the chicken coop shut down... what a PIA
04:33 PM Tom_L: stop rebooting
04:35 PM JT-Shop: another feature slipped in by sick programmers lol
04:35 PM mozmck: Sounds like your chicken coop is way too high tech.
04:36 PM Tom_L: chickens livin on the edge
04:37 PM mozmck: My chicken coop was lucky to get a power cord so I could turn a light on to see when it was dark!
04:37 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop's chickens are livin in the Hilton
04:38 PM jesseg: maybe the chickens hacked it
04:38 PM jesseg: maybe they installed eggdrop
04:43 PM JT-Shop: mozmck: automatic door and lights and cameras out the yen yan lol
04:44 PM mozmck: JT-Shop: I do remember at one time when I was a kid we had a plug on a timer that would turn on a light and then back off to help keep them from moulting in the winter.
04:54 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop you mill much steel?
04:54 PM Tom_L: wondering about chiploads... i haven't cut any for a very long time
04:54 PM gregcnc: gosh darn why don't the hardware stores follow AS568 number for o rings?
04:55 PM Tom_L: would make it too easy
04:57 PM gregcnc: looking for -016 and apparently they are #40 who knew?
05:18 PM tiwake: oh guys
05:18 PM tiwake: I found something amazing last night
05:18 PM tiwake: http://buildblock.com
05:18 PM tiwake: insulated concrete form blocks that the manufacture is selling direct to anybody who wants to build their own house out of the stuff
05:23 PM gloops: how do they fix together?
05:59 PM malcom2073_: tiwake: That looks.... kinda cool
05:59 PM malcom2073_: Heh, one of those "If you have to ask, you can't afford it" places
06:07 PM dioz: typically they stack like fucking legos don't they?
06:07 PM tiwake: malcom2073_: well, ICF is simi-custom made for your design... like if you need certain angles or radius things done with the walls
06:07 PM dioz: or you stack 'em and run some rebar down 'em
06:07 PM dioz: then fill 'em and put a big dildo in
06:07 PM dioz: vibrate all the bubs out
06:08 PM tiwake: malcom2073_: and I'm pretty sure the windows are cut out at the factory
06:08 PM tiwake: might be wrong about the windows though, they might be cut out at the job site
06:08 PM dioz: i imagine cut 'em out and put bucks in
06:09 PM dioz: before filling
06:09 PM malcom2073_: Interesting
06:09 PM dioz: i can't see it being much different than a mason setup
06:10 PM dioz: the insulation would add r value
06:10 PM dioz: be easy to stack instead of doing forms
06:11 PM tiwake: dioz: yeah, the holes are blocked out with wood frames to keep it all contained
06:11 PM dioz: window bucks
06:15 PM dioz: so here's the thing
06:15 PM dioz: at work i was talking with a dude about CODE
06:15 PM dioz: the situation, in this case, was a unit heater being hung in a garage
06:16 PM dioz: manufacturer specs indicate combustion and vent air duct specifications
06:16 PM dioz: so this guy was saying that "local code and supercede manufacturer specs"
06:16 PM dioz: my thought on the matter is...
06:16 PM dioz: manufacturer specs are manufacturer specs
06:17 PM dioz: who else would know better about the product than the manufacturer?
06:17 PM dioz: why WOULDN'T i listen to the manufacturer?
06:17 PM dioz: he was like "it won't pass code"
06:17 PM dioz: we were running exhaust/intake through a concetric
06:17 PM dioz: which is basically a pipe in a pipe
06:17 PM dioz: the vent line ran inside with double wall the combustion air was the outside pipe single walled
06:18 PM dioz: anyways
06:18 PM dioz: if it comes down to warranty for a component i'm being installed
06:18 PM dioz: i'll install to manufacturer specs
06:18 PM dioz: don't wanna void warranty!
06:19 PM dioz: he said the combustion air needs to be double walled
06:19 PM dioz: THE FUCKING INTAKE for the unit heater needs to be double walled
06:19 PM dioz: my thought on the matter is that double wall is a heat barrier (bvent they call is)
06:19 PM dioz: :s/is/it/
06:21 PM malcom2073_: Voiding your warranty is often significantly cheaper than code violations
06:21 PM dioz: it's new construction
06:21 PM dioz: inspector comes around and approves before building is handed over
06:21 PM dioz: all new
06:22 PM dioz: and this is assuming that the component you're installing is cheap
06:24 PM dioz: is the inspector the one that's going to warranty the product for me when it fails due to not following specifications?
06:24 PM dioz: lets assume it's another component for a minute
06:24 PM dioz: like a structure steel component
06:24 PM dioz: and it's not being installed as per manufacturers requirements
06:27 PM dioz: the thing that seems the most odd is the attitude that's had towards inspection individuals
06:27 PM dioz: there seems to almost be a high level of uncertainty
06:28 PM dioz: there's this expectation that the inspector is some kind of terrible person who's just looking for reasons to not give you hand over
06:29 PM dioz: so it makes me wanna buy all the code books
06:31 PM dioz: and figure out what the requirements are
06:31 PM dioz: guys also talk about "minimum code"
06:31 PM dioz: which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me
06:31 PM dioz: it's kind of like a "minimum safety requirement" when it comes to protective equipment
06:32 PM dioz: either i need to be protected or i don't...
06:32 PM dioz: which one is it?
06:40 PM jdh: you need to be minimally protected
06:45 PM Tom_L: dioz, mfg specs should meet or exceed any locale specs they plan to sell in
06:45 PM Tom_L: in the end you are responsible to install to local codes
07:17 PM tiwake: dioz: its a tradeoff... protection to productivity
07:17 PM tiwake: OSHA does not see it this way
07:23 PM Tom_L: yeah, they don't issue ANY warnings
07:24 PM Tom_L: iirc their lowest fine is 7k per incident
07:24 PM Tom_L: so for example if you AND your buddy weren't wearing safety glasses and should have been, that's 14k
07:31 PM tiwake: I hardly take mine off
07:32 PM tiwake: but have heard of guys leaving the job site to take off the safety glasses to clean them, but was nabbed for a fine because he was still too close to the job site
07:33 PM MrHindsight: why my shop is in an underground bunker now
07:34 PM Tom_L: once they show up, they'll do a thorough inspection job too
07:34 PM tiwake: work for yourself, never have OSHA show up
07:34 PM Tom_L: i do work for myself but am an OSHA10 cardholder
07:35 PM tiwake: donno what that means
07:35 PM Tom_L: took the course
07:35 PM MrHindsight: above the surface everything looks like a pillow stuffing warehouse
07:35 PM Tom_L: some places require you to know safety
07:35 PM MrHindsight: no sharp corners on anything
07:36 PM MrHindsight: Tom_L: how often do they just drop in?
07:36 PM Tom_L: on me? never
07:36 PM MrHindsight: at work?
07:37 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure how often they just drop in but i know if they have reason they'll tear the place down
07:37 PM Tom_L: i took the course when i was taking the catia classes
07:37 PM Tom_L: figured it couldn't hurt anything
07:38 PM MrHindsight: sure, anything good ?
07:38 PM Tom_L: usual common sense stuff
07:39 PM MrHindsight: anything not so obvious?
07:39 PM Tom_L: not that i recall
07:39 PM Tom_L: drains can't be too big a grate, rails have certain heights etc
07:39 PM Tom_L: it's been a while... i forgot alot of it already
07:40 PM Tom_L: different class of forklifts etc
07:41 PM Tom_L: storage of gas cylinders etc
07:42 PM Tom_L: personal eye, ear, foot, other protection
07:42 PM Tom_L: if the job requires it, it's the employer's responsibility to provide equipment for it
07:43 PM MrHindsight: thanks, bbl
08:11 PM adamj12b: Hoping somebody might be able to give me a hit as to why my mdi_command errors out when I press the button its linked to, but if I type the command in the MDI, it does what I expect.
08:12 PM Tom_L: widget buttons?
08:12 PM adamj12b: physical buttons on my console.
08:12 PM Tom_L: one sec and i'll show you mine
08:12 PM Tom_L: hmm
08:13 PM Tom_L: shouldn't they work the same though?
08:13 PM jdh: kinky
08:13 PM adamj12b: Here is a link to a screen shot to the .hal, .ini and axis screen. pushing the buttons in order(XYZ) generate the errors shown.
08:13 PM adamj12b: https://photos.app.goo.gl/oO9nrLrIcIG4J4em1
08:14 PM Tom_L: are you using the parameters correct?
08:14 PM adamj12b: I would think it should work the same. but im getting weird errors and google is helpless
08:14 PM Tom_L: that's what it looks like
08:15 PM Tom_L: [HALUI]
08:15 PM Tom_L: MDI_COMMAND = O<work_zero> call
08:15 PM Tom_L: MDI_COMMAND = G10 L20 P1 X0
08:15 PM Tom_L: MDI_COMMAND = G10 L20 P1 Y0
08:15 PM Tom_L: MDI_COMMAND = G10 L20 P1 Z0
08:15 PM Tom_L: that's in my ini
08:15 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/screenshot.png
08:15 PM adamj12b: only difference is you specify G54 (P1)
08:15 PM Tom_L: for the 3 buttons bottom right
08:16 PM adamj12b: I want to use P0 so it uses the current active offset
08:16 PM Tom_L: hmm
08:16 PM adamj12b: and in the pic you can see it works if I type it in the MDI
08:16 PM adamj12b: which is weird..
08:16 PM Tom_L: yeah
08:17 PM adamj12b: and I get 2 different errors on 2 of the 3 buttons
08:19 PM Tom_L: post the line that connects one of them
08:19 PM adamj12b: to the button?
08:19 PM Tom_L: yeah
08:20 PM Tom_L: for a start
08:21 PM adamj12b: net zero-x-button halui.mdi-command-00 <= hm2_5i25.0.7i84.0.2.input-11
08:24 PM Tom_L: ok now the line associated with it in the ini [HALUI] section
08:25 PM adamj12b: MDI_COMMAND = G10 L20 P0 X0 #00
08:25 PM adamj12b: I didnt try removing the comment on the end wonder if that could be it?
08:26 PM Tom_L: try that
08:26 PM Tom_L: cause it looks the same as mine just P0 instead of P1
08:26 PM adamj12b: ok let me go fire it up.
08:27 PM Tom_L: i bet that's it
08:32 PM adamj12b: ok back
08:32 PM adamj12b: that did it
08:37 PM Tom_L: great
08:41 PM adamj12b: Im running out of buttons to program. :)
08:44 PM Tom_L: i bet if you did the comment with a space between it would be ok
08:44 PM Tom_L: like # comment
08:44 PM Tom_L: not #comment
08:44 PM TurBoss: hello
08:45 PM adamj12b: Ill give it a shot tomorrow to see what It does.
08:45 PM Tom_L: report
08:45 PM adamj12b: Will Do.
08:46 PM adamj12b: I got another question. totally unrelated.
08:46 PM Tom_L: you used your free one
08:46 PM Tom_L: this will cost
08:47 PM adamj12b: Im working on setting up a tool setter, and cannot figure out how i would tell the control to probe the length of something large and hollow ie.shell mill
08:47 PM Tom_L: you'd have to know where the cutter tips would land
08:48 PM Tom_L: maybe from the tool diameter in the tool table you could come up with something
08:48 PM adamj12b: i understand they could totally avoid the contact surface, but that could be solved with a reverse rotating length check
08:48 PM Tom_L: even then it could fall between inserts
08:48 PM adamj12b: I wasnt sure if the X offset int he table would help or hinder...
08:49 PM Tom_L: tool diameter
08:49 PM Tom_L: x offset will screw you over
08:49 PM Tom_L: cause it will offset cuts
08:49 PM adamj12b: Well orient is one if the next steps
08:49 PM adamj12b: thats what I thought.
08:49 PM Tom_L: been there
08:49 PM Tom_L: done that
08:49 PM adamj12b: haha
08:49 PM Tom_L: the code is in my configs for a look
08:49 PM Tom_L: also andy did some good stuff to help me in the wiki
08:50 PM Tom_L: hint: you need 2 pid loops
08:50 PM Tom_L: joined with or logic iirc
08:50 PM adamj12b: well it shouldn't be terribly hard to just offset by the radius of the tool if the dia is larger then 90% the touch surface
08:51 PM Tom_L: i still set mine manually
08:51 PM Tom_L: just used to it i guess
08:52 PM adamj12b: Yes, I remember you working on it back in July. I started this project back then and then moved and took till January to get back to the mill.
08:52 PM adamj12b: Do you have the link to your configs?
08:52 PM Tom_L: it worked but the spindle motor wasn't ideal for it
08:52 PM Tom_L: the code is good though
08:52 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/
08:53 PM adamj12b: TY
08:53 PM Tom_L: you need the remap stuff etc
08:53 PM Tom_L: some of those .py files
08:53 PM Tom_L: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?SpindleOrient
08:53 PM Tom_L: andy's chart
08:53 PM adamj12b: Yes. I was looking at that last year.
08:53 PM Tom_L: it goes along with one of the samples on the disk
08:54 PM Tom_L: i forget which one just now
08:54 PM adamj12b: Thats ok. I have alot of work to do first, mainly adding an encoder.
08:56 PM adamj12b: The console still needs the pause/resume button linked up, M1 Button, and Feed rate and spindle override pots
08:57 PM adamj12b: Im waiting for a few more solid state relays to get the lube pump under control. then I can do Orient
09:33 PM adamj12b: BeachBumPete: Hey Pete!
09:39 PM BeachBumPete: Hey Adam
09:39 PM adamj12b: Been awhile. Did you get your lathe running?
09:39 PM adamj12b: I think it was a lathe. :P
09:39 PM BeachBumPete: no not yet been kinda busy with life stuff LOL
09:40 PM adamj12b: Same happend to me. Ended up moving and put the mill on hold. Got back to it in January. Made its first chips last weekend.
09:40 PM BeachBumPete: awesome
09:41 PM BeachBumPete: right now I am trying to find a design for a cool electric guitar body I want to try to machine on mine
09:41 PM adamj12b: https://photos.app.goo.gl/iCfKriCY27zT8C9t2
09:41 PM Tom_L: BeachBumPete, wood?\
09:41 PM BeachBumPete: yeah wood
09:42 PM Tom_L: still makin gun parts?
09:42 PM BeachBumPete: I have always wanted an Ibanez Jem and dont ever feel like forking out the 2k for one so I have been looking at building one myself
09:42 PM BeachBumPete: yeah always making gun parts
09:42 PM BeachBumPete: this is a personal project
09:43 PM Tom_L: a friend is a violinist and knows the violinist in Transyberian Orchestra
09:43 PM Tom_L: had him build a duplicate of his
09:43 PM Tom_L: there's only 2
09:43 PM Tom_L: it's a 6 string violin
09:43 PM TurBoss: the part to be machined how is calles?
09:43 PM Tom_L: electric of course
09:43 PM TurBoss: *called
09:44 PM BeachBumPete: https://grabcad.com/library/tag/ibanez this looks promising but no way to verify dimensions
09:46 PM Tom_L: you don't have dimensions for the real one?
09:46 PM BeachBumPete: nope only ever saw one once in a guitar shop LOL
09:47 PM BeachBumPete: its a beauty tho
09:47 PM BeachBumPete: the shop I work in now has a ton of heavy wood I can scrounge for the body. gonna buy the neck and other parts
09:48 PM BeachBumPete: but I wanted to cut my own body or at least try to with the CNC router mount I machined awhile back for the CIncinatti
09:49 PM Tom_L: BeachBumPete, what chipload do you run steel? or do you cut much?
09:50 PM BeachBumPete: mostly ally but whatever I cut I just check with the online calculators usually
09:51 PM Tom_L: probably around 800-1k rpm?
09:51 PM BeachBumPete: yeah typically not real fast
09:52 PM BeachBumPete: of course depends on cutter dia, number of flutes, etc. etc.
09:55 PM Tom_L: we'll see how it goes.. this little mill may not like steel anyway
09:55 PM BeachBumPete: Oh it should do just fine I think
09:56 PM BeachBumPete: wow just found a great file set on grabcad for one!
09:57 PM BeachBumPete: looks like everything is in russian
10:23 PM Tecan: http://netpipe.ca/aha/linuxcnc.zip << found out i put it in the wrong spot
10:23 PM Tecan: laser config files