#linuxcnc Logs

Feb 26 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:00 AM XXCoder: man I cant wait for it to be all finished
12:03 AM pink_vampire: i believe so
12:03 AM pink_vampire: i can imagine that
12:05 AM XXCoder: its funny that there was a point that there was LESS stuff there than was there when we started moving in.
12:55 AM IchGucksLive: morning from 12F germany
12:55 AM IchGucksLive: pink_vampire: still on
12:55 AM fragalot: hi
12:55 AM IchGucksLive: ;-)
01:00 AM XXCoder: hey ich
01:02 AM pink_vampire: yes
01:02 AM pink_vampire: IchGucksLive:
01:02 AM IchGucksLive: hi h
01:02 AM pink_vampire: hi IchGucksLive]
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: has it realy been 26C last week in NY
01:03 AM pink_vampire: yes
01:04 AM IchGucksLive: cand belive we are in the big freeze here
01:04 AM IchGucksLive: im very old and ive seen oly 4 times the lake at freeze
01:04 AM pink_vampire: same here
01:05 AM IchGucksLive: and it is ice now childeren hope for wendsday to get skating green light
01:05 AM IchGucksLive: no positiv temps until thursday expected
01:15 AM IchGucksLive: P1ersson: hi how is it up in the North at sibirian Temps
01:24 AM IchGucksLive: Hi W1N9Zr0
01:24 AM IchGucksLive: im in germany
01:24 AM IchGucksLive: W1N9Zr0: if you got a cnc related Q just ask
01:26 AM W1N9Zr0: Hi, thanks! I do have a question: I'm trying to use hm2_pktuart, and it seems the pull request for that driver never made it to the stable branch: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/pull/48
01:26 AM W1N9Zr0: does it depend on somethign in master or did it just get missed on a merge?
01:28 AM IchGucksLive: it is integreaded into hm_2 as far as i know
01:31 AM IchGucksLive: W1N9Zr0: it is fully integreaded
01:31 AM IchGucksLive: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man3/
01:33 AM IchGucksLive: im off BYE
01:37 AM W1N9Zr0: The actual functions are not in 2.7.12, I get a linking error when trying to build my module
01:37 AM W1N9Zr0: I ran strings /usr/realtime-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae/modules/linuxcnc/hostmot2.ko | grep uart
01:38 AM W1N9Zr0: and it only has hm2_uart_send, not hm2_pktuart_send
01:39 AM W1N9Zr0: if I switch to buildbot master-rt, it does have the functions
01:40 AM W1N9Zr0: see also: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/pktuart.c vs missing file: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/v2.7.12/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/pktuart.c
01:52 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-Wade-Lathe/173162727363?
01:52 AM gloops: strange tailstock fitting, cant see any sign of a standard taper
02:17 AM jesseg: hey are people storing tool diameters in gcode files yet?
02:18 AM jesseg: Would be handy for gcode viewer if it knew how wide to draw the toolpaths :D
02:19 AM fragalot: other than adding it as a comment to the toolchange command.. not really
02:19 AM jesseg: oh that's a great idea, I'll do that.
02:25 AM Deejay: moin
02:25 AM jesseg: Mornin' Deejay
02:25 AM jesseg: How goes?
02:29 AM jesseg: fragalot, so is there a "normal" way to indicate tools as a comment table at start of gcode file?
02:31 AM jesseg: Seems like by now there would be a sort of standard so a CNC machine could stop and say "OK NOW INSERT TOOL T3 'xyz'"
02:31 AM jesseg: or during setup of tool changer "Please insert 'xyz endmill' into slot T3"
02:57 AM fragalot: jesseg: nope.
02:57 AM fragalot: the tool library is managed by the machine, not by the gcode file
02:59 AM fragalot: I basically just put "(* T3 = ball endmill, 4mm, 15mm stickout *)" as comments on my files, mostly because I don't have a toolholder system to put semi-permanent tooling in
03:06 AM jesseg: ahh OK
03:06 AM jesseg: thanks :D
04:39 AM jthornton: morning
05:11 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: same here, i just mention the type and diameter of the tool in the gcode file header, not even stickout beacuse i have no tool depth switch anyways, o i have to touch the surface for any tool anyways.
05:40 AM Tom_L: 26°F n clear
05:43 AM Loetmichel: -6°C and clear/sunny here :-)
06:00 AM jthornton: 33°F and dark
06:04 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: I like to know stickout in case it has to be longer than usual for clearance
06:05 AM Loetmichel: ah, that makes sense
06:05 AM fragalot: bbl
08:15 AM Blumax: Hello
08:16 AM Blumax: I do not speak English well but I do not know how to do something with linuxcnc, I do not know what to look on Google.
08:16 AM Blumax: I would like to use a port com pin to make Z limit and probe.
08:17 AM Blumax: But linuxcnc does not want, it shows me an error.
08:20 AM Blumax: In fact I solder my probe on my limit switch Z, if I do not install it is the limit Z normal, if I put the crocodile clip on the cutter and the probe in position I want it works with .
08:25 AM gregcnc_: it sounds like you want to use one pin for both functions?
08:25 AM Blumax: exacte
08:26 AM Blumax: yes
08:29 AM gregcnc_: I don't think that's possible. How is linuxcnc to know which function to execute? Probe input or limit switch tripped?
08:30 AM gregcnc_: i assume you are out of pins otherwise you'd be using a free pin?
08:31 AM Blumax: Exact, I'm no longer free pine.
08:32 AM gregcnc_: if you have individual pins for each axis limit you could consider combining them to one pin to free some
08:33 AM gregcnc_: is adding a second parport an option?
08:35 AM Blumax: Yes I'm dressing, but this solution would suit me, anyway if I made my original machine is the classic end-stop that works otherwise it's when I use my probe. The probe can only be higher than the end stop but if I use the functon home-z Z can go up too much. So I really have to use the feeler function.
08:35 AM Blumax: feeler = probe
08:41 AM gregcnc_: while it might be convenient putting a limit and probe input on the same pin doesn't make sense at the machine logic level
08:45 AM jesseg: Good Morning
08:51 AM JT-Shop: morning
08:51 AM fragalot: mornin'
08:55 AM jym: Morning, 34F and snow everywhere for the next two days
09:01 AM gregcnc_: looks like Siemens is joining Autodesk with something similar to fusion https://launchforth.io/
09:18 AM Blumax: gregcnc_, I understand but in this case it would be good.
09:30 AM ziper: nsfw https://www.snopes.com/medical/emergent/stapled.asp
09:34 AM CaptHindsight: W1N9Zr0: have you already asked in #linuxcnc-devel ?
09:36 AM CaptHindsight: gregcnc_: we can't pay you anything but we'd love to get your ideas
09:36 AM CaptHindsight: so we set up this new website...
09:42 AM gregcnc_: I suppose paying their own people to come up with patentable software wasn't enough
09:49 AM CaptHindsight: they don't spend much extra time of money building the website
09:49 AM CaptHindsight: of/or
09:49 AM CaptHindsight: do they hope that the site will build up future buyers of the software?
09:50 AM CaptHindsight: or is it just to troll for ideas?
09:51 AM gregcnc_: no idea
09:52 AM CaptHindsight: All while winning prize money and building your online reputation.
09:52 AM CaptHindsight: We partner with industry leaders like GE, Airbus and HP to take your ideas from a screen to the local store or even a distant planet.
09:53 AM CaptHindsight: "yeah I designed a bunch a stuff online and got $500 and major online karma"
09:54 AM CaptHindsight: "the grocery store didna't accept any of my karma as payment, so I got a job"
09:59 AM gregcnc_: terms of service imply they are supplying you with CAD for right to your IP.
10:00 AM gregcnc_: how fun
10:00 AM Rab: Are they supplying anything more than an extended trial license for Solid Edge?
10:00 AM CaptHindsight: might they be losing some sales to Freecad?
10:01 AM gregcnc_: this is all set up by Local Motors, I'm not sure why siemens is even mentioned other than that's the software you get for signing your life away
10:01 AM CaptHindsight: Rab: have to create an account to find out
10:01 AM Rab: CaptHindsight, that's exactly why I don't know. ;)
10:02 AM CaptHindsight: You agree not to use or launch any automated system, including without limitation, "robots," "spiders," or similar technological devices or programs, to access the Platform
10:02 AM CaptHindsight: You agree not to impersonate another person or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity, conduct fraud, hide or attempt to hide your identity.
10:03 AM andypugh: ziper: Putting the dates together it sounds like the events took place in the 1970s, so I guess there might have been open flat belts still in use then.
10:03 AM ziper: I didnt know they were in use then even
10:04 AM ziper: thought it was a prewar thing
10:04 AM CaptHindsight: You may not, upload, post, email or otherwise transmit any User Submission that provides any telephone numbers, street addresses, last names, URLs or email address;
10:04 AM CaptHindsight: iterate on other users design submissions;
10:04 AM CaptHindsight: form a team towards a contest;
10:04 AM CaptHindsight: engage in commercial activities within the Platform;
10:09 AM gregcnc_: the way i read it if you use their Platform to design something, it belongs to them, am I wrong?
10:12 AM Rab: Sometimes that type of language is meant to permit them to use your work to promote their platform, rather than to take ownership of it. (Haven't read the terms, IANAL)
10:12 AM CaptHindsight: and you can only use the software for that purpose
10:13 AM CaptHindsight: NO COMMERCIAL USE
10:13 AM gregcnc_: it specifically says they can use user submissions with no compensation
10:15 AM CaptHindsight: engage in commercial activities within the Platform;
10:18 AM gregcnc_: you might get a pat on the back
10:23 AM jym: ...or a kick in the ass, your choice.
10:27 AM hazzy: ziper: I know of several shops that still use flat belts in a few places, mostly on big presses and the like
10:30 AM * jym wonders why hazzy knows of these shops with flat belts ;)
10:31 AM hazzy: The most surprising place I have seen flat belts in use is at the Siemens nuclear steam turbine plant in NC. Most of the equipment came off navy ships and is still the original green. It has all been converted to CNC though. Interesting that they are using such old equipment to make state of the art turbines
10:31 AM hazzy: jym, lol
11:01 AM lunadabay: hi
11:06 AM lunadabay: quick question.... on my linux machine, the following error stays at pretty much zero (+/-.0005" or so, worse case) when changing directions or starting and stopping a move at max velocity. a machine we bought seems to spike a decent amount at the beginning and end of each move, and then level out to a reasonable number. They are claiming it is supposed to do that since the machine takes time to accelerate to max velocity. is
11:06 AM lunadabay: that right, or BS? seems to me like their accel rate is too agressive if they can't hang with the trajectory planner.
11:06 AM lunadabay: but i'm far from an expert
11:11 AM cpresser: lunadabay: i think 'they' should sell/advertise it with less acceleration
11:11 AM jthornton: sounds like it is not tuned if it is a servo machine
11:11 AM cpresser: better tuning might also solve some issues
11:12 AM cpresser: like playing FFx values
11:12 AM pcw_home: If the "spike" lasts as long as the acceleration phase you may be able to tune it out with FF2
11:12 AM lunadabay: it is a servo machine. i agree it is likely untuned, but unfortunately it's hard for me to argue with them
11:13 AM lunadabay: i have to convince my boss i am right, when i am not really an expert, i only have a few retrofits under my belt
11:13 AM pcw_home: it its a very short spike at the beginning and end of acceleration its because of LinuxCNCs lack of jerk limiting
11:14 AM lunadabay: it's not a linuxcnc controler... it's an osai
11:14 AM pcw_home: if its mainly at the beginning (and you have dovetail ways) its likely stiction
11:16 AM lunadabay: https://filebin.net/ax4lwkuol6bb4k6z
11:16 AM lunadabay: that's some shots from their scope
11:16 AM lunadabay: word doc
11:18 AM sync: well, the only real way to test this is to do a ballbar test
11:20 AM pcw_home: on image 1 ( assuming red is velocity and greeb is following error )
11:20 AM pcw_home: green
11:21 AM lunadabay: it is pcw_home
11:21 AM pcw_home: looks like FF1 and FF2 are badly tuned
11:21 AM pcw_home: ( LinuxCNC names... )
11:22 AM pcw_home: FF1 = velocity feed forward and FF2 = acceleration feed forward
11:22 AM lunadabay: yea i am trying to get them to send me the manual for the osai controller so i can learn a little more
11:25 AM lunadabay: the second graph has two following error lines because it has 2 motors
11:28 AM mozmck: https://newcnc.com/wp-content/uploads/Osai-End-user-manual.pdf
11:29 AM lunadabay: that's the end user manual. i was hoping to get the programming manual
11:29 AM IchGucksLive: hi from freezing cold germany
11:30 AM lunadabay: hi from unseasonably cold southern california lol
11:30 AM IchGucksLive: Blumax: still on
11:30 AM pcw_home: been a very cold Feb in cafilornia
11:30 AM lunadabay: yes it has
11:30 AM Blumax: IchGucksLive, i'm here
11:30 AM IchGucksLive: im in germany if it helps
11:30 AM lunadabay: you're in the bay area, right pcw_home?
11:31 AM Blumax: I'm french
11:31 AM pcw_home: yeah
11:31 AM lunadabay: i thought that's where my parts came from at least
11:31 AM lunadabay: i was just up there a month ago... it was cold
11:31 AM mozmck: https://newcnc.com/wp-content/uploads/Osai_Programming_Manual.pdf
11:31 AM mozmck: Looks like you might find something here as well: http://cncmanual.com/osai/
11:31 AM IchGucksLive: Blumax: you can put all Axis Limits and Home to one pin
11:32 AM IchGucksLive: Blumax: Vous pouvez bloquer tous les commutateurs sur un port
11:33 AM lunadabay: thanks mozmck, i'll check them out
11:33 AM IchGucksLive: Blumax: alors il devrait y avoir assez
11:33 AM Blumax: Yes I know but it seemed to me rather logical to be able to make the original take on the end stop and use the probe after.
11:34 AM IchGucksLive: Blumax: utilisez-vous le port parallèle
11:34 AM Blumax: yes
11:35 AM IchGucksLive: vous avez 5 entrées
11:35 AM IchGucksLive: qu'avez-vous connecté là-bas
11:36 AM IchGucksLive: c'est une fraiseuse / Router
11:36 AM IchGucksLive: moulin
11:37 AM Blumax: X-Y-Z-Free-Free mais je voulais les garder libre pour d'autre chose les deux restant
11:38 AM IchGucksLive: un port pour l'interrupteur de fin de course
11:39 AM IchGucksLive: un port pour le probe
11:39 AM IchGucksLive: Trois Ă  gauche
11:40 AM IchGucksLive: De quoi avez-vous besoin ici?
11:46 AM Blumax: Il y en Ă  deux de libre mais je voulais metre le palpeur (probe) et le min-z sur le mĂŞme pin.
11:52 AM IchGucksLive: ce n'est pas possible
11:53 AM IchGucksLive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee-Yq8EQPSU&list=PLCvxHlqjDleu8qCx_Js9sSqL3RuQOhHPE
12:02 PM Blumax: J'ai cassiment la meme chose mais avec 6 drivers de pas Ă  pas :)
12:03 PM Blumax: https://flic.kr/p/ZP7M5U
12:04 PM IchGucksLive: Blumax: puis prenez deux cartes
12:05 PM IchGucksLive: Dix axes a Dix entrées
12:06 PM IchGucksLive: Coûts seulement 10 euros
12:06 PM IchGucksLive: Tous les problèmes résolus
12:30 PM IchGucksLive: Gn8
12:35 PM fragalot: hey
01:01 PM Tom_L: hay
01:02 PM Tom_L: why are bldc so expensive?
01:03 PM andypugh: motors or drivers?
01:03 PM Tom_L: both
01:03 PM SpeedEvil: They're not?
01:03 PM andypugh: Some motors (as used on model aircraft) are pretty cheap
01:03 PM Tom_L: well maybe it's just the one i was looking at
01:03 PM fragalot: because you're looking in the worng place? :P
01:03 PM Tom_L: likely so
01:03 PM SpeedEvil: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-rotomax-1-40-brushless-outrunner-motor.html
01:03 PM fragalot: speaking of the wrong place.. my mold is coming along nicely. https://imgur.com/aLkjV4j
01:04 PM Tom_L: http://glockcnc.com/#!/750-Watt-Motor-Controller-Continuous-Duty-Sherline-&-Taig-or-Universal-Headstocks-1-HP/p/34923060/category=8597972
01:04 PM Tom_L: by the time you get analog to that it's nearly a thousand bux
01:05 PM Tom_L: those guys are insane
01:05 PM gregcnc_: oh you want a brushless motor that doesn't suck
01:05 PM SpeedEvil: If you want it in a packaged unit, for a niche market, all the bugs out for your app, then yes, it's gonna be expensive.
01:06 PM Tom_L: bugs are fun
01:06 PM Tom_L: well mostly
01:06 PM SpeedEvil: The actual motor is a tiny fraction of that - for an equivalent RPM and wattage unit, properly derated.
01:06 PM fragalot: no they aren't ¨:p
01:07 PM fragalot: hi gloops
01:07 PM gloops: hi
01:11 PM _methods is now known as methods_
01:15 PM fragalot: hey miss0r
01:16 PM Tom_L: would a regular servo work for that?
01:16 PM miss0r: hey fragalot
01:16 PM fragalot: I decided to test my fisso against one of the chinese indicators stands for indicator droop today at full extension if you're interested?
01:16 PM Tom_L: probably don't have the rpm
01:17 PM miss0r: fragalot: Not unless you have come to the conclusion that the fisso is FAR superior :] I've already ordered one ;)
01:17 PM fragalot: miss0r: That was indeed the conclusion. :D
01:17 PM miss0r: glad to hear :]
01:17 PM fragalot: difference was around 5-fold
01:17 PM miss0r: How bad was the chinesium?
01:17 PM fragalot: 2mm
01:18 PM fragalot: when flipping 180_
01:18 PM miss0r: how long did you have it sitting?
01:18 PM _methods is now known as methods_
01:18 PM fragalot: didn't, just put it on my beefiest square, zero'd it, and flipped the whole thing around 180°
01:19 PM fragalot: had to do something to keep me busy whilst the body filler dried xD
01:19 PM miss0r: I'm not sure I understand your test :]
01:19 PM fragalot: miss0r: put indicator base on solid surface, zero the indicator at full extension, pick assembly up & turn upside down
01:20 PM miss0r: ahh. alright
01:20 PM miss0r: 2mm on the cinesium.. thats alot
01:20 PM fragalot: yarp
01:20 PM fragalot: fairly sure it's the huge tolerances on the little brass pushrods
01:20 PM miss0r: I'm glad I opted for the ~400eur one
01:20 PM fragalot: miss0r: https://imgur.com/aLkjV4j stage 1.5 complete.
01:21 PM fragalot: I have also learned that I absolutely hate putting fillets on inside corners
01:21 PM miss0r: Looking good. You haven't added any steel yet it seems
01:21 PM fragalot: nah still need to order that
01:21 PM fragalot: waiting for the next paycheck xD
01:22 PM andypugh: fragalot: You can get special products for making fillets.
01:22 PM miss0r: hahaha. I actualy bought some three sided wood, and had the neighboor split it into smaller triangular sticks, I glued on the inside conors
01:22 PM fragalot: andypugh: as in shaped scrapers, or sticky premade ones?
01:22 PM andypugh: Sticky premade
01:22 PM fragalot: I had not considered that until now
01:22 PM fragalot: ... why did i not think of that xD
01:23 PM miss0r: the wood part?
01:23 PM fragalot: yes
01:23 PM miss0r: You didn't pay me to tell you ;ţ
01:23 PM fragalot: takes like 2 minutes on the router table to make that, lol
01:23 PM miss0r: yeah hehe. The next mold you'll have that on your mind
01:23 PM fragalot: yup, need to make the gantry part still
01:24 PM fragalot: that's why I didn't want to make both pieces at the same time :P
01:24 PM miss0r: I'm thinking of buying one of thoes el'cheapo ultra sonic cleaners for my stones. Can you recommend a brand?
01:24 PM fragalot: let me check which one I have
01:25 PM miss0r: to tell me 'not' to get one like it ? or can you recommend that particular model ? :}
01:25 PM fragalot: it does what it says on the tin
01:26 PM fragalot: GeneralSonic GS2
01:26 PM andypugh: fragalot: https://www.freemansupply.com/products/foundry-tools-supplies (see Leather Fillets)
01:26 PM gloops: funny, you always get outbid on the stuff you want, but never on the stuff you bid on but then change your mind
01:26 PM fragalot: gloops: could be that you would have, had you actually bid
01:26 PM miss0r: gloops: I think that is written between the lines in murphys law
01:26 PM fragalot: you don't know what the other guy's max bid was
01:27 PM fragalot: andypugh: thanks
01:27 PM miss0r: fragalot: Where did you buy yours?
01:27 PM andypugh: Wax ones exist too: https://www.freemansupply.com/products/specialty-waxes/wax-fillets-accessories
01:27 PM fragalot: miss0r: https://www.ultrasoonreiniger.com/ <- dutch site
01:28 PM miss0r: I was thinking of something cheaper :D
01:28 PM fragalot: no idea then... just make sure it's actually got a piezo element and not a cellphone vibrator
01:29 PM fragalot: and heating
01:29 PM miss0r: cell phone vibrator sounds aot more like something within my budget
01:29 PM fragalot: the heat makes a huge difference
01:29 PM fragalot: miss0r: I saw this old tony take apart a $80 one today
01:30 PM miss0r: fragalot: Yeah. I saw that too
01:30 PM fragalot: his looked pretty alright
01:30 PM miss0r: it actualy did. He did not, however, sound too impressed with the one he had of the same make
01:31 PM fragalot: that's because he expected it to do something unrealistic
01:31 PM fragalot: especially in that budget range
01:32 PM fragalot: expect to pay 5000+ for one that is powerful enough to destroy your parts, I mean, clean off rust
01:32 PM gloops: a lot my parts are rust lol
01:33 PM fragalot: these things are great for getting into tight spaces, but don't offer all that much in terms of mechanical force
01:33 PM fragalot: that's why I also have a tumbler
01:33 PM miss0r: I was hoping(unrealisticly) to get one capable of removing aluminium from one of my favorite stones
01:33 PM fragalot: you'll need quite a bit of power for that
01:33 PM miss0r: Don't I know it
01:35 PM miss0r: I can get a 1.3L one for 40$... That MUST be quality
01:35 PM fragalot: does it not come off when you true them?
01:36 PM miss0r: fragalot: most of it by far, but it still has some particles stuck in there
01:36 PM Rab: Sounds like any ultrasonic cleaner will work, as long as you fill the tank with oven cleaner.
01:36 PM Rab: Don't even have to plug it in!
01:37 PM fragalot: hehe
01:37 PM miss0r: that sounds like the best sales pitch i've ever heard :]
01:37 PM miss0r: I just got my 'new' car today, to use in my company.
01:38 PM miss0r: The misses is happy, that I will not take the car she also uses all the time
01:38 PM miss0r: fragalot: Now you just need to hire me for a project, so i can get on a proper road trip ;)
01:38 PM fragalot: not sure I can afford you, but I do need someone to help me shovel epoxy. :P
01:39 PM fragalot: we could make it a "bring your own epoxy" party
01:39 PM miss0r: fragalot: If you don't charge extra for the fumes I get to inhale, I'll kick the price right down for you ;)
01:39 PM fragalot: hehe
01:39 PM fragalot: free putty fumes for all
01:42 PM fragalot: miss0r: so what car did you get?
01:42 PM miss0r: A Mazda 5 Comfort Van from 2006
01:42 PM miss0r: (don't judge, i'm on a budget here)
01:42 PM fragalot: I'll only judge a little bit then
01:43 PM miss0r: I appreciate it
01:43 PM fragalot: you're welcome :-)
01:44 PM miss0r: fragalot: This car to be exact: http://bagsvaerdbilsalg.brugtbilsmodul.dk/bildetaljer/Mazda-bid-2146608191#boxlinecar
01:44 PM fragalot: that's a van?
01:44 PM miss0r: a two seater, with alot of room in the back
01:44 PM fragalot: nice
01:44 PM miss0r: it is categorized as a van, because it only has two seats and some room in the back
01:45 PM miss0r: (cheap taxes)
01:45 PM gloops: any reason a car and not van miss0r?
01:45 PM fragalot: yeah, here they call that "light cargo"
01:45 PM miss0r: gloops: Yeah, I don't travel with alot of tools. I've made it work with a sedan for a long time
01:45 PM fragalot: gloops: cheaper when going on the toll roads in france :P
01:45 PM miss0r: fragalot: I'd like to give that a test with this car, Get me some clients there ;)
01:45 PM gloops: yeah suppose if you dont need loads of cubic feet to carry stuff
01:46 PM gloops: small van is also some advertising space as well though
01:46 PM miss0r: the two rear doors are slide doors, so I think i'll install some drawers inside one of them
01:46 PM fragalot: make sure to lift them off of the floor so you can slide things underneath still
01:47 PM miss0r: Indeed. In case I need to fit some 8m long glass scales
01:47 PM miss0r: ;)
01:47 PM fragalot: :D
01:48 PM miss0r: meh, i'll just cut them to a more comfortable length and glue'em back together when I get to the customer... Sounds like a good solution
01:48 PM fragalot: hot glue gun and a good alignment jig should work
01:49 PM miss0r: I'm actualy waiting for a customer of mine to get a 6.5m long one delievered, so I can go install it
01:49 PM fragalot: turn upside down and pour epoxy in the channel for rigidity
01:49 PM miss0r: and top it off with sand to eliminate vibration
01:50 PM fragalot: helps with backlash too
01:51 PM miss0r: Its good to have someone here who understands some sarcasm - wich usualy translates horribly on IRC
01:51 PM fragalot: I breathe sarcasm :D
01:51 PM miss0r: So i've noticed :]
01:56 PM miss0r: fragalot: speaking of chinesium; A friend of mine send me a ling to some chinese girl singing the opera from the 5th element. Damn, she pulled it off
01:57 PM fragalot: I rhink I saw that too
01:57 PM miss0r: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJl2uPNsJEk The impossible stuff starts at 2:30 ish
01:57 PM miss0r: 3:20 rather
01:57 PM fragalot: if this turns out to be a rickroll, i'm making friends with channel ops until they +o me so I can ban you personally
01:58 PM miss0r: hahaha
01:58 PM miss0r: I was never into that. But now that you mention it, i'm sorry I didn't try to get'ya with it
01:59 PM fragalot: have you seen that 12yo doing this?
01:59 PM fragalot: or heard about two tone singing or whatever it's called
02:00 PM fragalot: polyphonic overtone
02:00 PM miss0r: I haven't seen the video you mention, but I know of the singing style
02:00 PM fragalot: impressive yet hideous, isn't it
02:02 PM miss0r: Let me tell you a bit of sad history. Back in the day to keep a sophrano(spell) voice, they castrated the boys so that they'd keep their high toned voice all their life. This is called a castrato
02:03 PM miss0r: the voice part and alot of other stuff that made them great singers from not having any testosterone
02:05 PM fragalot: yup
02:05 PM gloops: there were worse careers for boys back then
02:05 PM fragalot: humans are garbage, that's a well known fact
02:07 PM miss0r: Absolutly :) answer to both of you
02:07 PM gloops: chimney sweep, cabin boy, or probably worst of all - nothing
02:07 PM miss0r: I'll call it a night. See you around
02:07 PM fragalot: ttyl miss0r
02:11 PM gloops: an apprentice back in the day was legally bound, his master was his legal guardian, to abscond was a crime, usually the only legal escape was via a money settlement - or the master death
02:17 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Marlow-Model-2-Milling-Machine/112828964550? still cheap id say
02:19 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Downham-mini-borer-milling-machine/173179301163?
02:20 PM fragalot: interesting spindle
02:20 PM andypugh: I think this is more impressive than the Chinese girl: https://youtu.be/nmqEGAgu2O8?t=42s
02:21 PM andypugh: And, as I understnd it, Castratos did not sound like boy sopranos, because they got big, and so it was a rather unique voice.
02:23 PM fragalot: andypugh: can't really appreciate that properly on crappy laptop speakers when streaming at 144p
02:23 PM Rab: That Marlow is cute, it looks comparable to my Clausing but I see the table is a few inches longer.
02:26 PM gloops: both crying out for a control system
02:26 PM fragalot: they have control systems
02:26 PM fragalot: that's what all those handles are for, gloops
02:27 PM gloops: yes but if you remove the hand-les theres some motor-les underneath
02:28 PM gloops: ive realised anyway, building cncs isnt a quick thing, you wont be doing one a week or one a month, converting a mill would be a long distant project for me probably
02:48 PM roycroft: tom_l built his most recent cnc mill in a very short period of time
02:48 PM roycroft: and he built it from scratch
02:49 PM roycroft: i.e. pieces of steel, not castings
02:49 PM fragalot: it depends on how much time per day you can spend on it, and if you know what you're doing or not
02:49 PM fragalot: and whether or not you have materials on hand
02:49 PM fragalot: just like doing anything else, really
02:49 PM gloops: well yes, there are mitigating factors
02:49 PM roycroft: i've been working on my cnc mill/drill conversion for about 3 years now
02:49 PM roycroft: i am the other extreme :)
02:50 PM gloops: toms machine isnt particularly big, and he knows what hes doing with cnc
02:50 PM fragalot: size doesn't matter
02:50 PM fragalot: :p
02:50 PM gloops: if you use ally extrusions and plates, basically a dedicated system thats much quicker as well
02:50 PM roycroft: that's not what she said
02:51 PM gloops: size does matter when it involves a lot more cutting, welding, alignment etc
02:52 PM gloops: dozens more holes to drill and tap
02:52 PM gloops: in fact millions of holes
02:52 PM fragalot: the difference isn't counted in weeks though
02:53 PM fragalot: maybe 15 minutes per hole, if you include layout & finishing?
02:53 PM gloops: fragalot thats what i thought
02:53 PM gloops: a few things the unwary dont think of
02:54 PM gloops: like the number of times you are going to dismantle and re-assemble various parts of the machine
02:54 PM fragalot: you'll do that on a small one too, the only difference there is that you don't need lifting equiptment :P
02:54 PM SpeedEvil: Hardmode - only assemble using jbweld.
02:54 PM SpeedEvil: No bolts.
02:54 PM fragalot: hehe
02:55 PM gloops: then theres losing stuff
02:55 PM gloops: 4 days for that
03:03 PM gloops: realistically, when i have all the parts, i think i can build a 4 axis in 2 weeks
03:04 PM gloops: 800 between centres, 200x200 on other axis
03:04 PM gloops: 2-3 weeks actually
03:13 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGPpXF7y9Rg interesting
03:16 PM XXCoder: http://www.nanomembranetoilet.org/more info if interested
03:25 PM Tom_L: with toilet in the link i'm probably not
03:25 PM gloops: lol
03:26 PM XXCoder: not all toilet links is shitty
03:29 PM Tom_L: might sell in a 3rd world country
03:29 PM XXCoder: and in certain cities in usa
03:29 PM XXCoder: one city have maybe a year worth of clean water then thats it
03:29 PM roycroft: in cape town?
03:29 PM gloops: ive no problem with the water flush system we use, so far as doing the job goes
03:30 PM XXCoder: and I always found that flushing 2-3 gallons of clean water with pee and shit as quite wasteful
03:30 PM roycroft: there will be zero drinking water in cape town as of some time next month
03:30 PM fragalot: roycroft: my aunt just went there last week, according to everyone she's talked to locally, the media is overhyping the situation a bit
03:31 PM fragalot: yes, water reserves are low, and they are being conservative, but it's not quite as extreme /yet/
03:31 PM Tom_L: they would do that?
03:33 PM fragalot: XXCoder: what happens when you have a floater?
03:33 PM gloops: whats causing the shortage? aside from being near the equator
03:33 PM fragalot: XXCoder: do you just.. wait for it to go down?
03:33 PM fragalot: gloops: lack of rain
03:33 PM XXCoder: fragalot: that was actually answered in posts in video
03:33 PM XXCoder: and pretty much yeah.
03:33 PM XXCoder: its sealed so it dont smell up apparently so it dont matter
03:34 PM gloops: could be awkward, especially if someones stood outside waiting to use the toilet next
03:34 PM XXCoder: gloops: its sealed away
03:35 PM Tom_L: add a drinking fountain to the entry door
03:35 PM Tom_L: see how many takers you get
03:35 PM XXCoder: didnt you see video?
03:35 PM fragalot: I wonder how long that "swipe blade" lasts :P
03:35 PM gloops: there has to be some emergency flush device added to this
03:35 PM fragalot: clearing away stickies in a single swipe
03:35 PM XXCoder: me too. I wonder how clean it can make it, from sticky crap
03:36 PM fragalot: I do like the idea though, but isn't a simple composting toilet much simpler?
03:36 PM fragalot: Tom_L: lol
03:36 PM fragalot: XXCoder: open & close lid repeatedly until you get the desired result? xD
03:36 PM XXCoder: yeah dunnp too lol
03:37 PM XXCoder: some areas I think is very workable but wiping blade I just dunno
03:37 PM XXCoder: but same time there is monthly service apparent;y
03:37 PM Tom_L: just go in the yard like your pets
03:37 PM Tom_L: no fuss
03:37 PM XXCoder: so I guess they could fix it if needed
03:37 PM fragalot: Tom_L: until you step in it
03:37 PM Tom_L: take a torch with you
03:37 PM gloops: 10ft deep hole, self consuming for 5 years
03:38 PM Tom_L: done in alaska
03:39 PM XXCoder: would work great till permafrost melts
03:39 PM Tom_L: i like this channel for it's knowledge base, some electrical some mechanical some software but it amazes me how many topics we can cover in a week's time
03:40 PM fragalot: :-)
03:40 PM gloops: the 'privvy' as it was called, there was one remaining behind an old derelict cottage here, still all intact when i was a kid
03:42 PM XXCoder: lol
03:42 PM XXCoder: someone stated that he lives in chemical free house
03:42 PM gloops: the seat was a board with a hole in it, accross a couple of brick pillars, a properly made hole, not rough, had been painted, would have been quite pleasant actually, down some old stone steps from the back door, through some trees to the toilet, old wooden door
03:42 PM XXCoder: whats it made from then? folded spacetime?
03:43 PM Tom_L: gloops with the stereotypical 'moon' carved in the door?
03:43 PM gloops: Tom_L i was trying to think what was on the door, some kind of decoration, not a heart, i cant remember
04:04 PM XXCoder: Apple is trying to patent paper bag,
04:18 PM gloops: Britain facing coldest spell in 27 years with 20cm of snow and -12C temperatures
04:18 PM gloops: not happening where i am yet
04:20 PM Deejay: gn8
04:41 PM gonzo_: not that cold, but still chilly on the south coast
04:42 PM gonzo_: running low on wood for the burner in the workshop
04:44 PM jym: gonzo_: rafters burn
04:46 PM Connor: Hey guys.. 2 questions.. A) Can you all tell me what sort of stone(s) to get for stoning the top of a table, bottom of vise, etc etc.. like used in this video.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WfAAdp62Yo&t=284s
04:47 PM Connor: Secondly, can you all explain why he uses the stone on the 2nd stone?
04:47 PM gonzo_: but I'd be running to tell the king that the sky is falling
04:51 PM gregcnc: connor he has a video specifically about those stones
04:51 PM Connor: Does he?
04:52 PM gregcnc: ah no
04:52 PM gregcnc: robrenz
04:52 PM Tom_L: it's a hone
04:52 PM Tom_L: or whetstone
04:53 PM gregcnc: surface ground stone
04:53 PM Tom_L: oil them
04:53 PM gregcnc: nope
04:53 PM Tom_L: i spit on em
04:53 PM gregcnc: I have a chunk of one that was ground the difference is incredible
04:54 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=whetstone&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=241631136939&hvpos=1t3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1888646670263497929&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9024248&hvtargid=kwd-12625772&ref=pd_sl_6lobycuiye_e
04:54 PM Tom_L: yeah
04:54 PM Tom_L: mine is pretty old
04:54 PM Tom_L: 2 sided
04:54 PM Tom_L: fine and coarse
04:54 PM Tom_L: then i've got a probably 1/4" square one
04:54 PM Tom_L: maybe 4" long
04:55 PM gregcnc: these cost hundreds
04:55 PM gregcnc: https://youtu.be/DVLXsq7pi9Y
04:55 PM Connor: Those, are just standard wet stones.. is that the same thing he's using.. I've heard India stone.. and other things to describe them..
04:55 PM Tom_L: just the amount of precision
04:55 PM Tom_L: and material somewhat
04:55 PM gregcnc: the proper type won't wear you surfaces
04:57 PM Connor: I'm not looking for tool room grade, or anything.. just shop grade..
04:59 PM gregcnc: I would touch my vise with anything else, but ...
05:00 PM Connor: gregcnc: huh?
05:49 PM Tom_L: gregcnc got a link to where you got yours?
06:57 PM gregcnc: https://www.iigdt.com/Products/ProdDetails/flatstones.htm
07:53 PM ziper: did jet ever make decent machines or were they always junk
08:06 PM jdh: jet is jet. not really junk, just jet
08:17 PM ziper1: jdh, could you elaborate
08:18 PM hazzy: The older jets (steel blue ones) were decent Taiwanese machines, newer ones are just ok, same as grizzly or the like
08:21 PM hazzy: I take some of that back, the jet knee mills are still pretty nice machines
08:23 PM jdh: there is nothing inherently junky about them.
08:45 PM malcom2073: My last job wehad a jet knee mill, it wasn't bad... wouldn't seem to hold tram though. Have to re-tram it once a month somehow
08:53 PM CaptHindsight: loose jibs sinks ships
08:55 PM Tom_L: malcom2073 it's all those hammers beating the material down on the vise
08:56 PM CaptHindsight: https://southbend.craigslist.org/hvo/d/for-sale-verson-allsteel/6456891123.html
08:58 PM Tom_L: doesn't look too cnc-able
08:58 PM CaptHindsight: finger loser special
08:59 PM CaptHindsight: I just need one to shear and bend 90's
08:59 PM Tom_L: looks like a big hungry jaw doesn't it
08:59 PM CaptHindsight: metal no nom noms
09:00 PM CaptHindsight: this is the type that insurance co's don't want to cover
09:02 PM Rab: Looking for the two buttons, not finding them...maybe those are switch hoods behind the two nameplates.
09:03 PM Rab: Actually, I guess it has a foot-actuated bar. -_-;
09:04 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, for safety it should have some place to make sure your hands are clear
09:05 PM CaptHindsight: I've seen bigger ones sell for less
09:06 PM Rab: Safety last: https://i.imgur.com/07H3mTh.gifv
09:07 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Verson-80-45-Ton-press-Brake-with-a-CNC-Automec-99-Backgauge/253413639027
09:07 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/36-ton-x-10-DRIES-KRUMP-CHICAGO-Press-Brake/232177009708
09:07 PM Tom_L: Rab, is he interviewing for the job?
09:08 PM BeachBumPete: Hey Tom
09:08 PM Tom_L: what's up?
09:08 PM BeachBumPete: not much how are you
09:09 PM Tom_L: just chillin tonight
09:09 PM BeachBumPete: going to get a new member of the family tomorrow :)
09:09 PM Tom_L: must be a pet?
09:09 PM Tom_L: or hospital visit?
09:09 PM jdh: grampa pete!
09:09 PM Tom_L: hah
09:10 PM CaptHindsight: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/nPAAAOSw5ZtaefHZ/s-l1600.jpg back gauge on a ballscrew
09:10 PM BeachBumPete: https://i.imgur.com/nsJ5OCW.jpg
09:10 PM Tom_L: nice lookin dog
09:11 PM Tom_L: latest mill upgrade: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Vise3.jpg
09:11 PM BeachBumPete: https://i.imgur.com/HVe0NLs.jpg https://i.imgur.com/FHHBzbp.jpg
09:15 PM Rab: Tom_L, is that the 4" vise?
09:15 PM Tom_L: mine pretty much run the place
09:15 PM Tom_L: Rab, yes
09:15 PM BeachBumPete: pretty excited
09:15 PM Rab: Are you pleased with the quality?
09:15 PM BeachBumPete: gonna drive about 2 hours across the state after work tomorrow for him.
09:15 PM Tom_L: Rab, yeah
09:15 PM Tom_L: it's not a kurt but close enough
09:15 PM Tom_L: for about 1/2 the price
09:15 PM CaptHindsight: they look so nice new
09:17 PM CaptHindsight: the parts I got were just under the price of everyone else with shipping
09:22 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, very interesting. A couple items I checked were 5% and 14% cheaper on eBay, another was 50% more expensive.
09:24 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, anything drop-shipped from a nearby brick and morter store, or everything from a central warehouse?
09:25 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: local store
09:25 PM CaptHindsight: took 4 days vs 1 however
09:26 PM jdh: I get work discount from grainger. Makes their prices mostly tolerable.
09:27 PM CaptHindsight: I'll buy from them if they have in stock for me to pick up the next day
09:27 PM CaptHindsight: or when they have closeouts
09:27 PM jdh: they deliver to my desk for free
09:28 PM CaptHindsight: I often buy boxes of fasteners for ~$1/box, all sorts of sizes
09:29 PM CaptHindsight: but HVAC, electrical supplies, tools etc are mostly 2x what I can get them for elsewhere
10:39 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/jHJXEpEajOw?t=36m8s Rift Off !!
10:40 PM CaptHindsight: Japanese H-2A rocket launch
10:40 PM CaptHindsight: I wonder if they put a Toyota in orbit
10:50 PM hazzy: neat!
10:50 PM Tom_L: maybe a kia
10:51 PM roycroft: a tesla has already been launched into space
10:51 PM Jymmm: Lexus Rocket?
10:51 PM Jymmm: Lexus == Toyota
10:51 PM roycroft: the only other vehicle that can possibly follow that is the batmobile
10:51 PM roycroft: anything else is just futile
10:52 PM Jymmm: borg cube
10:52 PM roycroft: personally i think it would be fun to put a vw bus in space
10:52 PM roycroft: a camper bus, with the pop-top
10:53 PM roycroft: it could putt-putt its way to mars over the course of a few decades
10:53 PM Jymmm: I say attch a engne to trumps ass and send one way to outter space
10:53 PM hazzy: With the hippies in it :)
10:53 PM evilroot: JAXA H-11A is a nice system
10:54 PM Tom_L: just more space junk
10:54 PM evilroot: Really simple, super reliable
10:55 PM evilroot: Also if anything they'd launch a Mitsubishi
10:56 PM evilroot: Or Nissan
10:57 PM evilroot: Given Mitsu launches that rocket
10:58 PM evilroot: Tom_L: space junk is only really a problem if its in LEO
10:59 PM evilroot: Anything else and the chances of a collision are so tiny you'd be more likely to win the lottery a few times
10:59 PM roycroft: one of these days, mister president
10:59 PM roycroft: *pow* right to the moon!