#linuxcnc Logs

Feb 25 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:00 AM Wolf__: right now I just piss off the mail man every few months with bluebullet orders in the 70lb range
12:03 AM Skullworks: I still build wacky guns for myself - but even if I got the license again there isn't much profit in it for the small operation.
12:03 AM Wolf__: I was leaning towards gunsmithing more then trying to crank out mass products
12:06 AM Wolf__: I hear ya on the wacky builds too lol I have one on my bench right now
12:06 AM Skullworks: I want to scratch build a VZ61 Skorpian SBR - for just because I thought it looked cool hanging on the wall in the Chiefs office in "Get Smart".
12:06 AM Wolf__: those are pretty neat guns
12:06 AM Wolf__: 80’s movie terrorist special =D
12:08 AM Wolf__: and its a AR build that can be called a build lol, cutting the barrel from a raw blank
12:09 AM Wolf__: also going to scratch build the piston system
12:09 AM Wolf__: can be +actually
12:09 AM Skullworks: I did a billet AR lower that used Thompson stick mags and a mating upper for a guy - told him at the time I could not find anyone who had 16" 45 barrel blanks. That was a real hemroid.
12:10 AM Wolf__: yeah, buddy wanted a 45 build but blanks were oos
12:10 AM Skullworks: He wanted double feed like the Colt pattern 9mm
12:10 AM Wolf__: yeah
12:11 AM Loetmichel: wouldnt it be more practical for a double barrel revolver to rotate the drum half a chamber and fire the two top adjacent chambers simultaneously?
12:11 AM Skullworks: Thompson mag was the only option I could lay hands on.
12:11 AM Loetmichel: than to do top and bottom chambers?
12:12 AM Connor: I need to figure out how to mount the scales for the Quill too..
12:12 AM Connor: That is going to be the hardest.. everything will be custom made..
12:13 AM Skullworks: There are many ways to skin a cat - just remember to be sure the cat is dead before you start - then there is the nine lives issue....
12:14 AM * Wolf__ suggests screws to mount to the quill
12:15 AM Connor: Wolf__: Yea.. screws will be involved.. :)
12:15 AM Wolf__: also wish I had thought of checking to see if I could get the ES-12 in 4 axis
12:15 AM Skullworks: Another option was having an inner circle of say 327 Federal and a outer circle of 45 LC.
12:15 AM Wolf__: my quill dro is a POS shars https://i.imgur.com/eDuNXtu.jpg
12:16 AM Wolf__: that sounds like a heavy damn gun lol
12:17 AM Skullworks: Heavy is great for recreational guns you don't need to carry around
12:18 AM Wolf__: I cant really argue that, my 3gun AR is like 9lbs empty lol
12:18 AM Wolf__: or was that with a full mag…
12:18 AM Skullworks: If I had good prints for a SAA revolver I'd love to make an 8" 22TCM.
12:20 AM Skullworks: but with a 357 length cylinder I could load regular 55gr 223 FMJBT.
12:20 AM Wolf__: that sounds interesting
12:21 AM Wolf__: I have a few 55gn https://i.imgur.com/bdRoiSd.jpg
12:21 AM Skullworks: likewise the 22TCM is the perfect cartridge to use swaged bullets made from 22LR cases
12:22 AM Skullworks: 70 lbs?
12:22 AM Wolf__: haha, that kinda stuff is cool
12:22 AM Wolf__: yeah, 6k box
12:24 AM Skullworks: I had a friend who had an ammo company - nothing like going in on a 3 way split on a 1.5 Million primer order... or 1700 lbs of powder.
12:24 AM Skullworks: back when they could still ship 100lb kegs.
12:25 AM Wolf__: got lucky, some guy was cleaning out his gun room on the enos forums classified and listed 10 boxes of hornady 6k 55gn for $350 shipped each
12:25 AM Wolf__: yeah, thats a lot of powder
12:27 AM Skullworks: back in my FFL days I got a few pallets of Chicom 7.62x39 1440 rnd crates - except I failed to ask for non-corrosive. With shipping it was $54/crate. - I couldn't seem to give that stuff away.
12:28 AM Skullworks: a Sheriff deputy friend bought 2 pallets at cost cause it wasn't moving.
12:29 AM Skullworks: then the whole thing went nuts in the press about steel core...
12:30 AM Skullworks: deputy soldout the whole thing he bought @ $400 a crate before they classified it as armour piercing.
12:30 AM Wolf__: hah nice
12:31 AM Wolf__: I miss cheap ammo prices
12:31 AM fragalot: mornin'
12:32 AM Skullworks: Then I had alot left over but legaly could not sell or even give it away - so I'm still blasting away with the little I have left.
12:32 AM Skullworks: Wolf - what rapids you get out of those 320x?
12:33 AM Wolf__: I dont have 320x
12:33 AM Skullworks: you have the Koll?
12:33 AM Wolf__: the kollmorg 342, I haven’t used them yet
12:33 AM Skullworks: ah
12:34 AM Wolf__: also learned that I dont know shit about setting up servo drives
12:34 AM Skullworks: I have monsters on my Hurco - Electrocraft running 1:1
12:35 AM fragalot: Wolf__: they're not that hard when you've done about 50 of 'm.. so keep trying! :D
12:35 AM Skullworks: rapids 250-400 IPM
12:36 AM Wolf__: I’m almost tempted to cnc the knee mill, but think it would be better if I found a little bigger one to do, https://i.imgur.com/r2krYgI.jpg have this so I can 1:1 the knee
12:37 AM fragalot: I wouldn't mind a HSC 20 linear, but one can dream. right?
12:38 AM Skullworks: I need about $26K in electrical to get power to my turning center - so I'm thinking maybe a low power conversion to help the cash flow until I can afford to get the Turning center up 100%.
12:39 AM Wolf__: ouch, 3phase drop?
12:40 AM Skullworks: At least your mini BP type has a proper quill stop. I have a IH mill that they removed the quill stop to install a quill DRO.
12:40 AM fragalot: it's insane how quickly electrical prices skyrocket when utilities need to get involved... Friend of mine just spent €25K to get his 3x400V replaced.. (bought the shop from a guy that took power from his house, shop itself had no 400V cables near it so it had to come from a fair way away)
12:42 AM Wolf__: yeah, I lucked out on the mill, the lathe on the other hand was missing a few things, like the lead screw for threading, the thread dial, outer change gears…
12:42 AM Skullworks: Need new meter panel, main panel, run another 125A trenched line to a new subpanel for a 25KW Phase perfect Digital phase converter. and have the option to add another 100A to the other end of the building.
12:44 AM Skullworks: Existing panel has a 100A feed to the house, a 100A feed to the shop and a 60A feed to the well system.
12:45 AM Skullworks: Utils were great - came out and gave me a 250% larger transformer and the drop lines upgraded for free.
12:46 AM fragalot: neat
12:46 AM Wolf__: worst part, how much of that $26k is permit? lol
12:47 AM Skullworks: permit will be $400
12:47 AM Wolf__: thats not too bad
12:48 AM Wolf__: here its stupid $$ to have a sparky pull the permit
12:51 AM Skullworks: killer is - the main panel is rated to handle the load - and util engineer told me this. The B$ is our county building code. I go to the next county in any direction and this main panel could be used - just not here.
12:52 AM Wolf__: thats annoying
12:54 AM Skullworks: its the same with water heaters - very short list of what meets (there) code almost no on demand - and its because they won't take the time to qualify new models.
01:06 AM fragalot: morning IchGucksLive
01:06 AM IchGucksLive: morning from germany
01:40 AM Skullworks: long day ahead - I'm out.
01:41 AM Loetmichel: *hrrrmpf* i shouldnt go out buying bread rolls and crossiants befor being awake fully. Forgot that i had no cash and the bakery doesent take cards. And then the local ATM of my bank has a sign on it that says "closed because of vandalism damage"...had to drive a few km to the next one and pay 5 eur "service fee" on an ATM for a different bank nearby. What a journey :-(
01:42 AM fragalot: ._.
01:51 AM gloops: leaving the house carries its risks
01:52 AM CaptHindsight: bakery delivery
01:53 AM CaptHindsight: I'd pay for home delivery if they fired the food to me as they drive by. Like a t-shirt canon into a wind sock
01:54 AM CaptHindsight: I don't want to deal with a delivery driver
01:54 AM gloops: could be sexy fem driver
01:55 AM Loetmichel: gloops: yes. especially if not fully awake. and its COOOOOOLD here.
01:55 AM Loetmichel: (thats for the leaving home remark)
01:56 AM CaptHindsight: sexy fem home delivery is another service :)
01:57 AM gloops: its been the downfall of most great men, a rapid series of completely coincidental unfortunate events
01:57 AM gloops: combining and snowballing into a total disaster
01:58 AM gloops: its like when youve got to be somewhere and youre running late - that is moment coincidence strikes, absolutely everything on that journey that could go wrong and increase the lateness, probably will
01:59 AM jesseg: some of which may not even be the results of rushing :P
02:00 AM gloops: every set of lights is against you
02:00 AM CaptHindsight: meal catapult
02:04 AM Deejay: moin
02:04 AM enleth: CaptHindsight: buying 90% of groceries delivered here, dealing with the driver is still better than waiting in the damn queue at the grocery and stuffing everything into the bags in a hurry because there isn't enough space by the register for two customers' stuff
02:04 AM CaptHindsight: driver stays in the truck, drone takes it the last 100ft to your door
02:04 AM enleth: then I just freeze the rolls while they're fresh and heat them up in the oven in the morning
02:05 AM enleth: takes about as long as getting fresh ones from the bakery and you don't have to go out
02:05 AM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: are you american?
02:05 AM MarcelineVQ: enleth: you can also buy a stand mixer
02:06 AM MarcelineVQ: dough hooks make short work of bread
02:06 AM Loetmichel: 100ft from street to door... its more like 20 ft in average here ;)
02:06 AM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: uhmerican
02:06 AM CaptHindsight: just an average city/country
02:07 AM enleth: there are actually automated bread making machines the size of a big toaster, you just put all the ingredients inside before you go to sleep and set the timer, then wake up to actual fresh baked bread
02:07 AM enleth: but I don't have one yet, kinda expensive
02:08 AM CaptHindsight: and the bread is sort of generic
02:08 AM enleth: probably worth it, though
02:08 AM Loetmichel: enleth: expensive?
02:08 AM Loetmichel: you meant "cheap as fu**" didnt you?
02:08 AM CaptHindsight: not really good for baguettes or croissants
02:08 AM MarcelineVQ: enleth: I've got a couple but they only really make one kind of bread despite what 'recipes' there are
02:08 AM enleth: Loetmichel: I've seen cheap ones, but reliability reviews are kinda mixed
02:09 AM CaptHindsight: can't make a crispy crusty italian or french bread either
02:10 AM Loetmichel: we have one of those machines. nice if you want some fresh bread. but nothing beats oven-warm crossiants and bread rolls on a sunday morning fresh from the bakery. http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15753 <- the white thing on the left... (the silver one is an ice maker)
02:10 AM MarcelineVQ: they're plenty reliable, the ones I've had anyway, but since getting a stand mixer all of that sort of thing-that-does-one-job started collecting dust
02:10 AM enleth: MarcelineVQ: as long as they handle rye bread dough, and I think they do, I'm fine with that
02:11 AM enleth: Loetmichel: crossaints I just put in the freezer, not *quite* the same thing as fresh but close enough
02:12 AM Loetmichel: MarcelineVQ: the nice thing about the bread baking machines is that its programmable the evening before
02:12 AM enleth: funniest thing is, I've got several good bakeries at a comfortable walking distance from where I live, I just can't be bothered to go there every morning
02:12 AM MarcelineVQ: you can get away with that with store croissants because they're awful anyway hehe. I've yet to have a crossaint from a store which bakes (but not a bakery) that wasn't made with some sort of oily butter substitute
02:12 AM Loetmichel: so you get woken up by the smell of freshly baked bread (and coffee if the coffee machine has the same timer) ;)
02:13 AM enleth: Loetmichel: yes, this is the very point of those
02:13 AM enleth: no effort required
02:13 AM enleth: when you're lazy, you'll put up with a slightly lower quality/variety as long as it bring convenience
02:13 AM enleth: *brings
02:15 AM Loetmichel: enleth: i AM lazy. but wife is down with a cold... so i do my best to cater to her every whim. which includes getting fresh baked goods on a sunday morning before being really awake ;)
02:16 AM enleth: BTW, aren't shops closed on a Sunday in Germany?
02:17 AM enleth: eh, I guess bakeries would get an exception
02:17 AM Loetmichel: bakeries are the exeption
02:17 AM Loetmichel: and fuel stations
02:18 AM CaptHindsight: superstition?
02:19 AM CaptHindsight: force everyone to shop on Saturday?
02:21 AM CaptHindsight: Ladenschlussgesetz
02:23 AM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: in germany sunday is considered to be the "day off". and not only for some.
02:24 AM Loetmichel: to be allowed(!) to work on a sunday you have to have a really good reason here... apparently fresh bread is one good reason
02:26 AM enleth: they did the same thing recently in Poland, the law is going into effect from March onwards
02:27 AM CaptHindsight: probably listed under emergency services, police, fire, bakeries
02:27 AM Loetmichel: something like that, yes ;)
02:28 AM CaptHindsight: I forget, can you buy alcohol there 24/7 or only until 22:00 or similar?
02:29 AM enleth: a lot of low wage workers pointed out that working on sundays is one of the ways they can earn more and they need it, but it was promply ignored for their own good
02:29 AM Loetmichel: fuel stations that are open 24/7 can sell alcohol and tabacco 24/7
02:29 AM enleth: supposedly spending the sunday with your family is a good thing even if you can't pay the bills
02:29 AM Loetmichel: the restriction here is that its only meant to be for "travel supplies"
02:30 AM Loetmichel: nobody checks though if you are on a world tour or just out of bed and still in the pyjamas
02:30 AM Loetmichel: (yes, i have seen someone drive to the "tankstelle" in his pyjamas)
02:31 AM IchGucksLive: im off 6Dof robot runs on arduino cool
02:32 AM IchGucksLive: checking waightlift >10g needed
02:32 AM IchGucksLive: weight
02:32 AM IchGucksLive: immer die Deutschen holzjunkie
02:32 AM IchGucksLive: ich bin weg unterhalkt dich it loetm
02:33 AM holzjunkie: hallo loetmichel
02:33 AM Loetmichel: hi
02:33 AM holzjunkie: guten morgen allerseits
02:33 AM Loetmichel: mornin' :)
02:34 AM holzjunkie: ich bin neu und eher anwender als einrichter und du???
02:35 AM holzjunkie: aktuell versuche ich eine Drehbank umzurüsten und befasse mich it dem gedanken meine Maho unzurüsten
02:35 AM Loetmichel: schon ein paar tage dabei
02:36 AM Loetmichel: but please use english here if possible
02:36 AM holzjunkie: my english is very bad but I try
02:36 AM Loetmichel: its not that nice to talk german here, most of the others wouldnt understand ist
02:36 AM Loetmichel: it
02:37 AM Loetmichel: so you are trying to convert a conventional lathe to CNC?
02:37 AM holzjunkie: but it seems we're almost alone i thingg
02:39 AM Loetmichel: it only seems that way. i bet there are at least 5 to 6 people here reading what we write and waiting to chime in if they can contribute
02:41 AM holzjunkie: maybe who knows?! And what is your Project?
02:43 AM Loetmichel: at the moment: nothing.
02:43 AM Loetmichel: will do a new gantry mill some day.
02:48 AM gloops: it doesnt bother me people speaking german - i just dont know what theyre talking about lol
02:49 AM gloops: well better return to wiring, inside the box im using twisted pairs then wrapped in copper tape, finally insulating tape, which makes the wires almost as stiff and thick as the shielded cable i didnt want to use, becuase it was too stiff and thick
02:53 AM gloops: how ever, everything is twisted and foil shielded, which is better than nothing i suppose
02:54 AM enleth: eh, for the last week I've been trying to order the new oiling system parts for the bridgeport and it's been hopeless
02:54 AM enleth: I need to switch it to metric because original Bijur/Interlube parts are just way too expensive
02:55 AM enleth: and the chinese don't make this stuff in 5/16-24
02:55 AM enleth: but their junction blocks are weird, with M10 inlets instead of M8, so I'd have to buy two types of hoses and compression nuts and whatnot
02:56 AM enleth: I am actually seriously considering trying to re-tap the 5/16-24 internal threads on those junction blocks to M8
02:57 AM enleth: pretty much identical diameter, but the TPI doesn't match
02:57 AM Loetmichel: gloops: actually the foil shield is what makes it stiff
02:57 AM enleth: M8x1.0 is almost 25TPI
02:57 AM Loetmichel: i have seen "SSTP" cat5 cables that were flexible as hell
02:58 AM Loetmichel: as opposed to "SFTP"
02:58 AM enleth: Loetmichel: SSTP is braided shield instead of foil shield, AFAIR, so that would make sense
02:58 AM Loetmichel: so two layers of copper braid instead of foil shield on the pairs and braid shield on the whole cable
03:01 AM gloops: the shielded i bought is pretty stiff braided wire shielding with thick plastic core, its ok for the longer lines but was being a pain for short bendy connections
03:02 AM gloops: could do it with a bit or warming and so on, i should have used it really its taking longer the other way
04:20 AM enleth: huh, I just figured out how to clean some surface rust out of the quill bore in my mill
04:20 AM enleth: some water must have gotten in there from the top at some point and the top spindle bearing area is slightly rusty
04:21 AM enleth: nothing critical, the top bearing is there mostly to prevent whipping, but it's still better if the rust is gone
04:21 AM enleth: but I can't pull the quill out as it's a single unit with the Z ball screw
04:22 AM enleth: taking the whole thing is probably the one biggest PITA in servicing this whole mill
04:22 AM enleth: *taking the whole thing out
04:22 AM enleth: so I can't dunk it in evaporust
04:22 AM enleth: but I can plug the quill bore at the very bottom where the spindle normally goes
04:22 AM enleth: and fill it up with evaporust
04:24 AM enleth: the plug just needs a valve to drain it the next day
04:28 AM miss0r: That sounds a bit daring in my ears, to be honnest
04:29 AM miss0r: Isn't the bearings lubricated with grease?
04:29 AM enleth: what bearings?
04:29 AM enleth: the spindle cartridge is out of there
04:29 AM enleth: it's just the cartridge bore
04:29 AM miss0r: ahh
04:30 AM enleth: it's fine down where the main bearings go, there was enough oil in that area to prevent any rust
04:30 AM enleth: but up top, where the bore is quite slender and difficult to get at with any cleaning implements, there's some rust spots
04:30 AM miss0r: So what you are doing is just cosmetics ?
04:30 AM enleth: I don't want the rust to migrate
04:31 AM enleth: or eat deeper into the bore
04:31 AM miss0r: Indeed. but just using evaporust.. Will that handle it? I think you need some mechanical cleaning too?
04:32 AM enleth: I can wrap a rag around a brass hex bar, chuck that in a drill and swipe it up and down the bore from the top after I drain the evaporust
04:32 AM jthornton: morning
04:32 AM miss0r: Perhaps even some "scothc brite?" ?
04:32 AM miss0r: mornin
04:33 AM enleth: miss0r: maybe the softer variety, I don't want to scratch up the top bearing seat anymore than it already is
04:33 AM enleth: and besides, there should be no need for any abrasives after 24h of evaporust
04:33 AM miss0r: enleth: absolutly. But a quick rub with such shouldn't matter much
04:33 AM enleth: just cleaning the sludge off
04:34 AM miss0r: Alright. I have no first hand experience with evaporust
04:35 AM miss0r: I keep forgetting the time down here. I have to run. Good luck with your project
04:36 AM enleth: this stuff can deal even with heavy pitting in one go, just leaves clean pits in the part
04:37 AM enleth: horribly expensive, but there doesn't seem to be any viable substitute, so it's worth the price
04:37 AM enleth: no idea what they make it of and why no one else managed to replicate it, but it has to be something non-obvious
04:39 AM jym: anyone have a code sample handy that will calculate the Voroni tesselations of regular polygons with arbitrary numbers of sides? cradek?
05:07 AM sync: enleth: evaporust is just a chelation agent in water
05:11 AM holzjunkie: JT_Shop are you there ????
05:12 AM gloops: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/176639286452238/?
05:13 AM jthornton: much too early for me to be out in the shop
05:13 AM jthornton: it's 5:12am here
05:13 AM gloops: log slices 10 inch accross, maybe 1 inch thick £3
05:14 AM gloops: 8 foot trunk, 100 peices, 300 quid, 1 hour, not bad
05:30 AM enleth: sync: so why is there a bazillion generic brands of other types of rust removers, but not of that?
05:32 AM enleth: I found exactly two other brands of chelating rust removers, both are even harder to get outside of the US
05:35 AM gloops: get the grinder on it enleth, back to new metal
05:36 AM enleth: what
05:36 AM gloops: rust is a disease, like a gangrene leg, you cant cure it, the only way to to chop it off
05:38 AM enleth: uh, first, no, not really, you can remove it in a much less ham-fisted way
05:38 AM enleth: second, no, you can't really use a grinder to remove it from a lot of things, such as places where a grinder won't fit in
05:38 AM gloops: what is the object in question?
05:39 AM enleth: inside of the quill, top part of the spindle cartridge bore, surface rust from water ingress in the past
05:40 AM enleth: not sure if you were there when I described the problem, I've got join/part messages muted completely (too much noise on some channels)
05:40 AM enleth: tl;dr planning to plug the bottom of the quill and fill it up with evaporust, then run a rag on a drill through it the next day
05:41 AM jthornton: I've used this method to clean tools before... http://www.myfordtractors.com/electrolysis.shtml
05:41 AM enleth: I'm pretty confident that it will result in a rust-free surface
05:41 AM gloops: can get anything mechanical down it, like a circular wire brush in a hand drill
05:42 AM gloops: actually, something like waxoyl would probably prevent any further decay
05:42 AM enleth: that's 30cm deep in the bore from either side
05:42 AM enleth: why would I want to do that?
05:43 AM gloops: brush the rust off?
05:44 AM enleth: jthornton: good for a high volume of big parts I guess, where using a chemical de-rusted would just be way too expensive or impractical
05:44 AM enleth: gloops: try to force it off without using a chemical rust remover first
05:45 AM gloops: https://www.uktoolcentre.co.uk/products/faithfull-circular-wire-brush-115-x-12mm-m14-bore-2-035mm-wire.html?SID=790354&msclkid=88054cbc07c519c10739162ea64aeed8&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=5.%20Shopping%20TB%20Only&utm_term=4575342761576561&utm_content=TB%20Products
05:45 AM jthornton: I just did it for a combination square once and it never rusted again
05:45 AM enleth: gloops: yes, I know what a wire wheel is
05:45 AM gloops: im talking about something like than, could easy rig an extension on it, would buff some off
05:46 AM enleth: won't fit in there for shit
05:46 AM gloops: the right diamter
05:46 AM enleth: they only make them small enough for dremels
05:46 AM enleth: I'd have to get a 40cm extension with a dremel collet at the end
05:47 AM enleth: which would bend and be uncomfortable as hell to use
05:47 AM gloops: lol, ive got a bag full of various brush attachments
05:47 AM enleth: anyway - why?
05:47 AM gloops: i thought you wanted the rust out of the quill??? haha
05:47 AM enleth: why would I want to jump straight for mechanical removal, skipping chemical methods?
05:48 AM enleth: this doesn't make any sense
05:48 AM gloops: a) chemical wont be a good fix
05:49 AM gloops: b) pouring corrosive substances into a mill is something i personally would tend to avoid
05:49 AM enleth: when did I say anything about corrosive?
05:49 AM gloops: c) mechanical is straightforward and reliable
05:50 AM enleth: hint: I did not, because I don't intend to use anything corrosive
05:50 AM enleth: why would you assume that I do?
05:50 AM gloops: im simply offering my thoughts
05:51 AM enleth: but they're apparently irrelevant because of wrong assumptions
05:53 AM gloops: well if you have a plan in mind already thats fine, me, id have the inside of that quill gleaming like a mirror in 30 minutes
05:53 AM gloops: no mess, no residue a nice clean job
05:54 AM gloops: talking of which, ive got some stuff to shift
05:54 AM enleth: I just don't understand why you assumed I'd use a corrosive rust remover and stuck to that
05:54 AM enleth: I'd have to be a complete moron to do that
06:00 AM holzjunkie: jthornton: are you the same?4
06:01 AM jthornton: aye
06:01 AM holzjunkie: ok then I´ll wait till you´re awake;-)
06:43 AM fragalot: stage 1 complete. https://imgur.com/M8HZk3N
06:43 AM fragalot: stage 2: car body filler & loooaaaads of sanding. :P
06:47 AM gloops: noo...lol
06:49 AM gloops: the real man way to do it would be to make the male plug and polish that, take a mold off that to cast in
06:49 AM gloops: but im sure that will be fine
06:49 AM fragalot: if I had more than one to make, sure
06:50 AM fragalot: here I want something cheap, quick & easy to get apart once cast
06:50 AM gloops: probably easier to polish the casting for a 1 off
06:50 AM fragalot: not that worried about a polished surf$$$$$$$$$$$
06:50 AM fragalot: a highly polished surface*
06:51 AM gloops: ive thought about using concrete for a lathe but alignment and spindle fitting would be problematic i think
06:51 AM fragalot: the main reason for the bondo is to create nice big fillets
06:51 AM gloops: no not going to be an issue for a mill, i didnt know how particular you were about the finish
06:52 AM fragalot: indifferent, if it functions well and cleans well i'm happy..I can always paint the casting
06:52 AM gloops: youll get that out anyway you can just dismantle the mold casing
06:53 AM fragalot: yup
06:55 AM gloops: i really could live with just a concrete pour for the hulk of the machine, instead of weeks of faffing about with steel lol
07:54 AM george: hi there!!!
07:55 AM george: does anyone knows if ASUS VT168H supported in linuxcnc?
08:00 AM CaptHindsight: isn't that an LCD display?
08:01 AM CaptHindsight: are you wondering about the touchscreen?
08:01 AM Tom_L: yes
08:01 AM Tom_L: he was asking in devel
08:01 AM CaptHindsight: Touchegg
08:01 AM CaptHindsight: haven't had time to test it yet
08:02 AM Tom_L: slacker
08:02 AM CaptHindsight: otherwise it will behave like a standard touch screen
08:02 AM CaptHindsight: I tested some 10 point cap touch displays back in 2014
08:03 AM CaptHindsight: but there was no multitouch support yet
08:03 AM george: I wonder about the touchscreen
08:03 AM Tom_L: are all the other interfaces except axis touchscreen?
08:03 AM CaptHindsight: Touchegg works with some version of Ubuntu and with some tweaking Debian as well
08:03 AM CaptHindsight: and with more tweaking other distros
08:04 AM george: thnx
08:04 AM CaptHindsight: https://github.com/JoseExposito/touchegg
08:04 AM CaptHindsight: there is a Debian package
08:04 AM CaptHindsight: but requires some configuration
08:04 AM rene-dev: linuxcnc doesnt support any touchscreens. linux does, so its really a linux specific question...
08:05 AM rene-dev: but most work out of the box, as they are just a standard hid device
08:06 AM CaptHindsight: it's the multitouch
08:07 AM CaptHindsight: vs a touchscreen
08:08 AM CaptHindsight: rene-dev: if you ask about this in #debian they will be very very upset if you tell them you installed via a LCNC ISO :(
08:08 AM rene-dev: what
08:08 AM CaptHindsight: so this is the place to ask
08:08 AM rene-dev: hid descriptors support a arbitrary number of multi touches
08:08 AM CaptHindsight: rene-dev: try it for yourself #debian
08:09 AM rene-dev: well, just dont tell them? what has that to do with drivers?
08:09 AM CaptHindsight: my cat need new pants, bbl
08:10 AM CaptHindsight: oh and the firetruck is empty
08:12 AM Tom_L: cat's pants on fire?
08:12 AM gloops: well the siberian weather apocalypse didnt happen here yet, nicest day this month lol
08:13 AM Tom_L: nice sunny start to the day here as well
08:13 AM Tom_L: a bit cooler than it's been
08:16 AM Tom_L: gloops, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Softjaws.jpg
08:16 AM Tom_L: something i never could have done on the sherline
08:16 AM Tom_L: you'll be happy once you get your's goin...
08:17 AM gloops: that looks a pretty decent pattern to me Tom
08:17 AM jthornton: your just a chip making happy guy now
08:17 AM Tom_L: manual cuts or it would be prettier :)
08:17 AM gloops: lol, yeah, ill be back on it after this week, not much left to do now
08:17 AM Tom_L: except for the cleanup
08:18 AM gloops: i keep having an hour here and there, wiring isnt my thing really but every bit is something else out of the way
08:19 AM Tom_L: i swore to do _something_ on mine every evening until it was done
08:19 AM Tom_L: sometimes it wasn't much but it was one less step
08:20 AM gloops: yeah, it all adds up
08:25 AM Tom_L: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-DC-6-5-100V-0-20A-LCD-Display-Digital-Current-Voltage-Power-Energy-Meter-Multimeter/32765908468.html
08:25 AM Tom_L: may put one of those on the spindle motor
08:25 AM Tom_L: it's been saying wtf alot lately
08:30 AM gloops: so you can tell when its running at max?
08:30 AM Tom_L: yep
08:31 AM Rab: Tom_L, do you know if that current meter uses a hall effect sensor, or a resistive shunt?
08:31 AM Tom_L: probably a shunt
08:31 AM Rab: Yeah, thinking same
08:31 AM Tom_L: the AC version use a hall i think
08:32 AM Tom_L: just guessing that from the wiring diagram on the back of it
08:33 AM Rab: I want to characterize current draw of my spindle, but I'm concerned shunt will burn off a lot of power...trying to figure out if hall sensor has drawbacks.
08:34 AM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/100A-Multimeter-LCD-Digital-Current-Voltage-Power-Energy-Meter-Ammeter-Voltmeter/112642537020?hash=item1a3a04b63c:g:ANEAAOSwbwJaDDHt
08:34 AM Tom_L: that one is hall
08:34 AM Tom_L: pretty sure
08:35 AM Rab: Looks like it uses a current transformer: https://images.leegoal.com/C1-6112-6.jpg
08:35 AM Tom_L: the ebay one, yes
08:43 AM holzjunkie: jt almost awake ???
09:05 AM JT-Shop: been awake since 4am lol
09:06 AM * Tom_L bets he beats the chickens up
09:08 AM sync: no idea enleth
09:09 AM hazzy: george: I don't have any experience with that particular ASUS monitor, but I do know some people who have had trouble getting ASUS touchscreens to work well under linux.
09:11 AM jthornton: I don't whip my chickens unless they don't lay lol
09:11 AM Tom_L: henry don't get it once a day just because?
09:11 AM hazzy: george: If you want something that is certain to work look for an elo, they are POS monitors so are rugged and specifically support linux
09:12 AM Tom_L: hazzy good to know..
09:12 AM Tom_L: i'd like to try one some day
09:12 AM jthornton: I had one elo technology that did not work with linux... can't remember which one it was
09:14 AM TurBoss: hello
09:14 AM TurBoss: good morning
09:16 AM hazzy: Morning TurBoss
09:17 AM TurBoss: wasup Kurt??
09:25 AM george: Thnx hazzy
09:30 AM JT-Shop: george: ELO touch screens that work with linux ET1939L-8CWA-3-NPB-G ET1515L-8CWC-1-GY-G
09:30 AM JT-Shop: that's the two I have
09:35 AM george: Thanx for the info!!!
09:45 AM jesseg: Tom_L, Rab, I was just reading back. Those are interesting looking power meters. The ali one that uses a resistive shunt probably only about 100mV (0.100v) because at 20A that's 2W -- and I doubt they want to be dissipating more than 2W of heat in that
09:45 AM hazzy: george: I use an elo E001124 15" surface acoustic wave on my machine, I really like it, but it is almost too sensitive ( very much like a phone screen), I think I would go with a 5 wire resistive if I did it over so that coolant spray does not push buttons :O
09:45 AM jesseg: As to the one with the CT -- it's probably a current transformer since it's just two leads. A hall would require 3 or 4, and wouldn't look so much like a current transformer.
09:46 AM Tom_L: those don't work on DC do they?
09:46 AM jesseg: Odd thing is current transformers are super easy to use for AC, but take a much more complex drive circuit to measure DC
09:46 AM jesseg: Shunts work fine on DC
09:46 AM Tom_L: needs AC to drive the coil..
09:47 AM Tom_L: i was referring to the other one
09:47 AM jesseg: Current transformers are easy to use with AC but need a complex drive circuit for DC use (they basically induce a high frequency voltage on the current transformer and measure asymmetric saturation point... That's how many amp-clamps work for DC mode.)
09:48 AM jesseg: My guess is that the following item is really only AC only (See pic of label on its back) but the ebay page is wrong in saying it's DC https://www.ebay.com/itm/100A-Multimeter-LCD-Digital-Current-Voltage-Power-Energy-Meter-Ammeter-Voltmeter/112642537020
10:03 AM pcw_home: many many years ago I worked for a company the made a DC watthour meter using the current transformer system
10:03 AM pcw_home: 100's of time more accurate than hall based measurement
10:07 AM jesseg: pcw_home, do halls lack linearity? :D
10:11 AM gonzo__ is now known as gonzo_
10:11 AM pcw_home: yeah linearity zero and gain temcos are large also
10:12 AM jesseg: lol yeah
10:12 AM pcw_home: fine for 1% ish systems
10:12 AM jesseg: I mean halls are really amazing for what they are, but there's just some things they arent' :P
10:13 AM pcw_home: high bandwidth
10:13 AM jesseg: they are high band width?
10:13 AM pcw_home: Yes pretty decent
10:13 AM jesseg: I suppose higher than a large ct
10:14 AM jesseg: So the CTs, did you basically drive them with a few Khz sine wave at a constant average current, then measure the dc current offset? or are you under nda :D
10:15 AM jesseg: and did it have to do with the saturation point, or another mechanism?
10:16 AM jesseg: I just assumed they worked similar to a fluxgate compass
10:16 AM holzjunkie: JT-Shop: Hy ichguckslive told me to ask you for mesacards
10:16 AM pcw_home: its been 30+ years but I think the peaks of the superimposed AC were balanced
10:16 AM pcw_home: (with a DC bias to null the core DC flux)
10:17 AM jesseg: oh, almost in a feedback loop ! most fascinating!
10:17 AM pcw_home: Yes its a feedback system that seeks a null
10:18 AM jesseg: right, that would remove the non-linearities of the core by always operating it at zero
10:18 AM pcw_home: related to magamps
10:26 AM jesseg: pcw_home, fascinating... I'd never heard of mag amps... absolutely fascinating.. Thanks!!!
10:26 AM jesseg: Just been reading the wp article on them
10:27 AM jesseg: The first solid state computers didn't use semiconductors they used iron and copper mag amps :P
10:28 AM jesseg: I can see an early computer engineer giving a tour of their new machine.. "Oh that there? That' 15 tons of copper and iron is the ALU."
10:32 AM Tom_L: they were small beads
10:33 AM Tom_L: but still...
10:34 AM Tom_L: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/core.html
10:34 AM jesseg: true I guess they weren't 64bit CPUs with 8 cores and 32mb L2 and 2MB L1 cache
10:34 AM jesseg: Core memory I'd read about before
10:35 AM jesseg: it was read-once lol
10:41 AM pcw_home: current memory is read once also
10:41 AM pcw_home: ( DRAM )
10:41 AM jesseg: how does current memory work? oh, you mean like SDRAM as in DDR3 whatever runs in my PC?
10:42 AM jesseg: I think modern DRAM just has to be re-read repeatedly or it fades since it's just capacitors
10:42 AM pcw_home: yes its destructive readout like core
10:42 AM jesseg: are you sure?
10:42 AM Tom_L: thus the refresh
10:42 AM pcw_home: but its has regeneration circuitry
10:42 AM jesseg: I remember reading datasheets and that it just needs to be read or re-read
10:42 AM jesseg: I think it's destructive without readout too :D
10:43 AM pcw_home: Yes you mus periodically regen also
10:44 AM jesseg: pcw_home, I think I'm going to kindly beg to differ.. Just looking it up, they use a little capacitor.. Reading a capacitor doesn't clear it since it's a voltage you can read and solid state mosfet gates can read a capacitor without discharging it
10:45 AM jesseg: whereas reading a life saver is impossible without losing that state half the time since the only way to read it is to flip it
10:46 AM pcw_home: readout of current 1T DRAM cells is destructive
10:46 AM enleth: jesseg: at the voltage and power levels modern DRAMs use, there's barely enough charge in that capacitor to keep it from discharging for so long and reliably trigger the FET gate once
10:46 AM jesseg: ahh
10:47 AM enleth: that's why those memories can work at several GHz on 1V
10:47 AM enleth: if you had more charge in there, it would take more time to clear
10:47 AM pcw_home: I think the invert/refresh a whole row when they do a read
10:47 AM enleth: or require a higher voltage to force the charge out of there faster
10:48 AM pcw_home: (and have a bit to remember the inverted /non inverted state of the row)
10:48 AM enleth: or was that 2V for the most recent revision, not 1V? something stupidly low, anyway
10:48 AM jesseg: well you will agree it's an entirely different kind of destructive reading :P
10:49 AM pcw_home: its just easy to regen (if you can fix the inverted data /row issue)
10:49 AM jesseg: since depending on the voltages and speeds needed you could get several reads before destruction, whereas on the core memory, the destruction of the data is an implicit part of the read process, wherase with dram it's incidental
10:50 AM enleth: yeah, it is a deliberate exception from the general assumption that you can read a capacitor with a FET non-destructively
10:50 AM pcw_home: Its built in ( every read does a invert/regen or the row )
10:50 AM pcw_home: of the row
10:52 AM enleth: there were some ancient architectures that used DRAM but did not have hardware refresh and had to do it in software on an interrupt
10:53 AM pcw_home: I have some very old DRAMs where one read refreshed the whole array
10:54 AM pcw_home: (old enough that they used external sense amps)
10:55 AM pcw_home: EA1500's probably google cant even find these
10:56 AM jesseg: enleth, it looks like dram has a differential setup and has a latching sens amplifier which actually detects whether it's a 1 or a 0 and initially latches to that state -- and then inherently recharges the capacitor... But I'm not sure the capacitor ever actually fails to have a valid logic voltage level at any time during the read... http://www.cse.scu.edu/~tschwarz/coen180/LN/DRAM.html
10:57 AM jesseg: because if the voltage level fell too low during the read, the latch may pick the wrong state..
10:58 AM pcw_home: on most? DRAMs reading reverses the state of all bits on the accessed row
10:58 AM jesseg: I agree that if the latch was broken and failed to recharge, that a subsiquent read probably would not leave enough voltage for a third read.
10:59 AM jesseg: wait, so a 1 is stored as v+ one read, and v- the next read?
10:59 AM jesseg: but still reads as a 1...?
10:59 AM jesseg: or are yo u saying it does a full reverse then reforward charge?
10:59 AM pcw_home: Yes
10:59 AM jesseg: hmmmm
11:00 AM * jesseg reads more...
11:00 AM pcw_home: no its write 1 where 0's were and 0 where 1s were
11:00 AM jesseg: so if I read that same bit again, does it still read a 1 like it did before?
11:01 AM jesseg: I don't understand how it could invert the capacitively stored value without corrupting the data.
11:02 AM pcw_home: Yes because its read out and the the inverse is re-written to the whole row
11:02 AM fragalot: hi
11:02 AM pcw_home: ( and a bit is set to indicate the row is inverted )
11:02 AM jesseg: pcw_home, so there's like a translation table
11:02 AM jesseg: oh ok
11:03 AM sync: I like how modern dram is constructed compared to old dram
11:03 AM jesseg: pcw_home, does the dram refresh then toggle everything as well?
11:03 AM pcw_home: at least at one time this was done because the sense amp was inherently inverting so faster this way
11:04 AM sync: (which is also why qimonda failed)
11:05 AM jesseg: pcw_home, Ahhhhh.... ok if they were using inverting sense amps I can see them hatching a scheme like that... especially if they were some left over core memory engineers :P
11:06 AM jesseg: but I'm wondering if perhaps non-inverting non-destructive dram techniques might also be prevalent today
11:07 AM pcw_home: their all destructive AFAIK
11:07 AM jesseg: pcw_home, well I'm trying to make sense of this: http://www.cse.scu.edu/~tschwarz/coen180/LN/DRAM.html
11:08 AM pcw_home: since the charge of the capacitor is transferred to the bitline
11:09 AM pcw_home: so inherently destructive readout
11:10 AM jym: anyoen seen cradek this morning?
11:11 AM jesseg: pcw_home, so does the voltage on capacitor go lower then the resulting voltage on the bitline?
11:11 AM pcw_home: its the same (but the bitline has much more capacitance than the cell capacitor hence the need for sense amps)
11:14 AM jesseg: most fascinating
11:14 AM jesseg: so the limiting factor for speed on these isn't the charge time of the bit caps it's the charge time of the bitlines LOL
11:14 AM sync: obviously
11:15 AM sync: that is one of the big factors of chip design
11:15 AM SpeedEvil: It's fun that the single byte access speed for RAM has increased only several times since 1980
11:15 AM SpeedEvil: random access
11:15 AM SpeedEvil: It's all pipelining.
11:16 AM dean: looking to buy new computer amd threadripper no parrel port suggestions
11:16 AM SpeedEvil: meanwhile capacity has gone up a million-fold or more
11:16 AM fragalot: SpeedEvil: and that SSD's are actually competing very well for random access read speeds (on generic everyday laptops at least)
11:17 AM pcw_home: yep more capacity/throughput but random access is probably not even 10X faster that first DRAMs
11:18 AM Tom_L: dean, rephrase that in english please
11:18 AM pcw_home: ( my 1969 EA1500s were 70 ns! )
11:18 AM Tom_L: gawd u r old :D
11:19 AM pcw_home: well... yes
11:19 AM fragalot: Tom_L: "I am looking for advice on a new PC, with a modern AMD core, and no parallel port interface"
11:19 AM Tom_L: i've seen those old core memories in devices :)
11:19 AM jesseg: pcw_home, ok I agree that with the exception of some uncommon dram techs like "1T", that reading dram cells is destructive, although not in the cool way it is in core memory where the destruction of the data is actually the key element to reading it :D
11:19 AM Tom_L: fragalot excellent translation
11:19 AM fragalot: Thank you sir
11:20 AM jesseg: are you sure that's not supposed to be "no purrell porte?"
11:20 AM jesseg: you know, the port that squirts out hand cleaner?
11:20 AM fragalot: jesseg: there is soap involved.
11:20 AM fragalot: :D
11:21 AM jesseg: I want a computer *with* a printer port (for linux cnc) and with a *fast orange* port
11:21 AM jesseg: for cleaning my hands at the end of the day
11:21 AM pcw_home: 1T is destructive 3T (not used for high density anymore ) is not
11:21 AM fragalot: i'm sure there are casemods that would allow that, jesseg
11:21 AM fragalot: liquid cooled system
11:23 AM jesseg: pcw_home, ok, I wouldn't know. WP says "reads in 1T DRAM are non-destructive;" but I sure known them to be wrong before :P
11:24 AM jesseg: fragalot, as a matter of fact, there might even be an M code to pause the machine till hands are detected under nozzle, then squirt out a quantity of hand cleaner proportional to how long the machine has been running
11:24 AM pcw_home: yep thats wrong
11:24 AM jesseg: ok
11:24 AM fragalot: jesseg: haha
11:25 AM fragalot: I don't think it should be directyl proportional to spindle time though
11:25 AM jesseg: actually proportional to the time the spindle was off. That's when hands are getting dirty.
11:27 AM * Tom_L can just see the operator getting buried in hand cleaner
11:27 AM jesseg: lol
11:27 AM fragalot: i've been to some food processing factories in france where they had the hand sanitizer dispenser being the button to open the door
11:28 AM fragalot: you would not believe the pile of hand sanitizer on the floor below it :(
11:28 AM jesseg: LOL
11:28 AM jesseg: so in other words the thing would shoot vodka jelly at you just for trying to open the door?
11:28 AM fragalot: the idea was great, but if your staff does not give a shit....
11:28 AM fragalot: jesseg: yes, to "force" you to sanitize your hands to enter the clean area
11:28 AM jesseg: that's the problem is they shat all the time and just didn't want to wash their hands.
11:28 AM jesseg: :P
11:29 AM jesseg: a friend of mine actually once went to a fast food place -- went in the restroom to wash up and saw an employee go right from potty to kitchen without stopping to wash..
11:29 AM jesseg: and that was in USA..
11:29 AM fragalot: that company was one of the most hypocritical places I have gone to
11:29 AM HighInBC: doors would open automatically for washrooms if not for modesty
11:29 AM HighInBC: after all the door is the thing that is going to be the most contaminated
11:30 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:30 AM fragalot: I had to change boots 4 times, was my hands 7 times, and replace coveralls twice prior to being able to enter their "high risk" area
11:30 AM HighInBC: and typically opened after washing ones hands
11:30 AM HighInBC: hi IchGucksLive
11:30 AM fragalot: in that high risk area, you would then see people walking in & out of the fire exit to get stuff from their car, or take a smoke break
11:30 AM fragalot: :/
11:30 AM fragalot: hi IchGucksLive
11:31 AM jesseg: HighInBC, here in USA many big outfits like walmart are installing doorless restrooms - you walk through an S-shaped tunnel with padded walls -- no doors. You just walk in but since it goes around two corners you can't see in or out.
11:31 AM HighInBC: ah like the air vents for the sensor on a smoke detector
11:31 AM HighInBC: blocks light but not air
11:31 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: stage 1 complete: https://imgur.com/M8HZk3N -- after that pic, I've already put down the first layer of body filler to make nice fillets :-)
11:31 AM Tom_L: IchGucksLive, how's mods to Freecad going?
11:31 AM HighInBC: this is logical
11:32 AM IchGucksLive: Tom_L: we are doing our best
11:32 AM Tom_L: fragalot what are you gonna use for mold release?
11:32 AM HighInBC: jesseg: I assume they use negative air pressure to keep the smells in
11:32 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: a long way to go
11:33 AM jesseg: pcw_home, enleth, thanks for explaining things to me even though I was reluctant to believe, I really appreciate it! I love to learn things, just a little too stubborn for my own good sometimes :D
11:33 AM jesseg: HighInBC, yeah
11:33 AM fragalot: Tom_L: probably a good thick layer of carnauba wax
11:33 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: Indeed.
11:33 AM jesseg: means a lot when someone will take time to shake me up a little :P
11:33 AM Tom_L: gonna vaccuum bag it?
11:34 AM Tom_L: helps draw out the voids
11:34 AM fragalot: Tom_L: going to try that on a smaller batch first, as I think the bag might cause more problems than it solves as it gets sucked down
11:34 AM jesseg: hey dean we figured out you want a PC *with* a panter port and *with* a purrell port that puts out fast orange :D
11:35 AM fragalot: jesseg: a port for panting?
11:35 AM jesseg: well if you're working hard in the shop
11:35 AM jesseg: whether it's with the computer or the mill
11:36 AM jesseg: you might want a panter port
11:36 AM fragalot: you're supposed to be sighing at the computer, not panting
11:36 AM fragalot: I lost a week on a compiler error the other day
11:36 AM fragalot: things like that suck to find
11:37 AM fragalot: after a few days you're starting to consider putting your face under the purell port with your mouth wide open
11:37 AM jesseg: a compiler error? As in a bug in the compiler?
11:37 AM fragalot: yes
11:37 AM jesseg: oh that stinks
11:37 AM jesseg: a compiler bug is one of those things you always suspect when your code has a problem, but you never ever suspect when it's actually a compiler bug
11:38 AM fragalot: well after a week you decide to make a sample project with the absolute minimum of code in it; and look at the assembly... then do that for all related features
11:38 AM Tom_L: takes a week for that?
11:38 AM fragalot: turns out that a memcpy to external RAM, and a memcpy back, followed by a memcmp did... nothing. at all.
11:38 AM Tom_L: gee you're stubborn :D
11:38 AM fragalot: Tom_L: the embedded project i'm working on has 10 million lines of code in it last time i counted.
11:39 AM fragalot: figuring out which part is causing the problem takes time, :P
11:39 AM Tom_L: yeah
11:39 AM fragalot: especially when the error you get is "Hardfault at address 0x00"
11:40 AM Tom_L: it's the line before that one
11:40 AM fragalot: :P
11:40 AM jesseg: fragalot, fascinating! That is a lot of code for an embedded project. WIthout violating NDA can you help me understand essentially how it uses that many lines of code?
11:40 AM Tom_L: jesseg, ask microsoft. they're pros at it
11:41 AM jesseg: Tom_L, well with microsoft I guess about 9,999,000 of those lines either don't do anything or do random stuff you don't expect
11:42 AM jesseg: *I don't consider the simple act of calling another line of code to be "doing" anything :P
11:42 AM fragalot: jesseg: basically, it has a TON of functionality pushed into a single chip, where each I/O pin can do any function, and still guarantee a timing accuracy down to 4ns, store information on an encrypted wear-levelled NOR-flash chip, speak any number of serial and ethernet based industrial protocols,...
11:42 AM jesseg: except burning time and power
11:43 AM fragalot: and it is capable of sensorless driving of inductive loads (eg. if you would connect a servo, it could "home" without requiring any external sensor)
11:45 AM MrSunshine: heya, just ordered some 8mm spunge rubber stock for gasketing in the machine .. now .. anyone know what groove size to use for spunge rubber cord ? and grove profile? rounded bottom or is square bottom ok ?
11:45 AM fragalot: MrSunshine: that should be available on the website of the manufacturer i'd imagine,
11:45 AM Tom_L: MrSunshine think window screen slots
11:46 AM Tom_L: afik we used square bottom slots for vacuum fixtures
11:46 AM jesseg: fragalot, sounds cool alright, but I'm still stuck on 10m lines :D But maybe it's sort of designed in the brute force method where there's a non-overlapping code base for each possible configuration -- so the PWM code exists 10 times for the 10 pins, and such
11:46 AM fragalot: Tom_L: but was that the spec, or was that what your endmills happened to do? :D
11:47 AM Tom_L: yes.
11:47 AM fragalot: jesseg: it's a highly flexible library, where any timer could be used for any function, so you can use a different chip & still get all of the previously mentioned features
11:47 AM Tom_L: it would probably perform better longe with a radius bottom
11:47 AM Tom_L: longer*
11:47 AM fragalot: jesseg: I think in reality, maybe 1 million lines are actually "active" code
11:48 AM IchGucksLive: jesseg: pca9685
11:48 AM jesseg: fragalot, Ahhhh ok. Oh, the inactive being comments?
11:48 AM IchGucksLive: 16pwm via i2c
11:48 AM fragalot: jesseg: comments and #ifdef's
11:48 AM jesseg: IchGucksLive, cool, you gonna use this?
11:48 AM Tom_L: man, who actually comments code....
11:49 AM fragalot: most comments are done in-line to allow each function to fit onto a single screen... (we put our monitors vertical though, so that helps!)
11:49 AM Tom_L: i got a lib from someone once that used __ ___ for variable names. what a jerk
11:49 AM jesseg: fragalot, gotcha. Well even 1m lines is a bloody lot :D I've been writing a 2D cad/cam program for a couple years and I just passed 10k lines the other day
11:49 AM fragalot: :-)
11:50 AM jesseg: I just got it generating "route around" tool paths for relief/island routing for making PCBs
11:50 AM Tom_L: jesseg but are you writing it in ASM?
11:50 AM Tom_L: :D
11:51 AM jesseg: Tom_L, LOL nope. But I assumed that since fragalot mentioned memcpy or something he was using C
11:51 AM fragalot: jesseg: it helps that a lot of the functionality my project has, has been growing for the past 17 years
11:51 AM fragalot: it used to reaaaally push the limits of what 8bit MCU's could do, :D
11:51 AM jesseg: fragalot, oh yes yes that will do it every time
11:52 AM jesseg: fragalot, is it your personal project or for your boss?
11:52 AM jesseg: i.e. are you a day coder on it? :P
11:52 AM jesseg: IchGucksLive, oh, this is for driving RC airplane servos?
11:52 AM fragalot: jesseg: for the company I work for
11:53 AM IchGucksLive: yes i got one right infront of me conected to a 6DOF
11:53 AM jesseg: fragalot, cool. Do they sell them or is it internal stuff?
11:53 AM fragalot: both
11:53 AM jesseg: IchGucksLive, cooool
11:53 AM IchGucksLive: there are 4 ,8, 16, 32
11:54 AM jesseg: fragalot, cool! If it's no trouble in any way, just for curiosity sake, I'd love to read their product page if they have one:D
11:54 AM jesseg: but doesn't matter - just curious is all
11:54 AM fragalot: no can do, sorry
11:54 AM jesseg: fragalot, completely understood!
11:54 AM jesseg: no problem at all
11:55 AM jesseg: IchGucksLive, so in other words, when you roll around the 6DOF sensor, the servos replicate the movements?
11:56 AM IchGucksLive: the servos are the Motors and can lift realy 25g
11:57 AM IchGucksLive: 30 is not working
11:57 AM IchGucksLive: i checked
11:57 AM jesseg: hrm
11:57 AM MrSunshine: fragalot, do not know the manufacturer :/
11:57 AM jesseg: I'ml not sure I followed those last 3 statements, IchGucksLive
11:57 AM MrSunshine: Tom_L: what do you mean by windows screen slots?
11:59 AM jesseg: well gotta go. All the best :D
12:01 PM fragalot: cya jesseg
12:06 PM gloops: Parts of the UK will feel colder than the Arctic Circle in the coming week as bitter winds make it seem like -15C in some places.
12:07 PM gloops: coldest week for 5 years
12:07 PM fragalot: yeah, i've covered up the pond for this week
12:08 PM gloops: i doubt this will come to much but they may be right
12:08 PM fragalot: weather reports are saying -12°C here, and they're pretty damn accurately since a few years ago
12:11 PM gloops: bbc saying -4 mid week - at night, thats totally normal
12:12 PM gloops: slow news week thats all
12:23 PM Tom_L: MrSunshine, the channel they use to put the rubber strips in to hold the screens in place
12:24 PM fragalot: that design is not intended to seal though
12:24 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/screen_bottom.jpg
12:24 PM Tom_L: true but it's the same idea
12:25 PM fragalot: or you could just consult the O-ring handbook. https://o-ring.info/en/technical%20manual/ERIKS%20-%20Technical%20Manual%20-%20O-Ring%20Gland%20Design%20Information.pdf
12:25 PM Tom_L: that would be far too easy :)
12:37 PM Rab: fragalot, great resource, thanks for linking.
12:43 PM IchGucksLive: Gn8
12:55 PM fragalot: Rab: you're welcome :-)
01:05 PM miss0r: hello fragalot. What are we up to?
01:05 PM fragalot: miss0r: started work on the mold
01:05 PM miss0r: The epoxy granite one?
01:06 PM fragalot: Aye
01:06 PM miss0r: Is it gonna be complicated?
01:06 PM fragalot: https://imgur.com/M8HZk3N
01:07 PM fragalot: after that picture I started putting the fillets in with body filler
01:07 PM fragalot: so it's not that bad
01:07 PM miss0r: Nice. What are you gonna do to keep the epoxy from bonding with your mold?
01:07 PM fragalot: carnauba wax
01:08 PM miss0r: Indeed
01:08 PM fragalot: I'll coat the mold in a few coats of varnish first, and then wax it up good 'n proper
01:09 PM miss0r: That'll work. I did, when I did my own research prior to doing my mold, read about people being afraid to use such, because they feared it would mix with the surface of the epoxy
01:09 PM miss0r: I ended up using that cheap brown packing tape, that worked wonders
01:09 PM fragalot: carnauba wax is what west system recommends for their epoxies
01:09 PM fragalot: so i'm sure it will work with the boat epoxy I found
01:10 PM miss0r: Yeah. I'm sure its fine ;) We bought the same epoxy you and i
01:10 PM miss0r: What is your plan for degassing?
01:10 PM fragalot: what did you buy, (I haven't bought it yet)
01:10 PM fragalot: I have 2 plans: do a test with a vacuum bag to see if that does anything other than make a mess
01:10 PM miss0r: the west 105 with 205 or 206 hardener(can't remember wich one)
01:10 PM fragalot: or cast in layers, stamping it down as I go, and hope for the best
01:11 PM fragalot: ah - I am not using west systems; it's far too expensive for this amount
01:11 PM fragalot: i'm going to need like 50kg
01:11 PM miss0r: I did the layered method, with limited quality to be honnest
01:11 PM miss0r: woah...
01:11 PM miss0r: Have you done some proper math with the amount of granite? That sounds like _alot_ of epoxy
01:12 PM fragalot: 10% epoxy
01:12 PM fragalot: ... it's a big mold.
01:12 PM miss0r: sounds about right...
01:12 PM miss0r: Yeah, it sure sounds big :]
01:13 PM fragalot: i'm also considering basalt instead of granite
01:13 PM miss0r: I ended up floating the mold on some car spring, and mounted a three phase motor on a VFD, with an out'a balance flywheel on the bottom of the mold. That seemed to get the job done
01:13 PM fragalot: MUCH easier to get 'round here, and cheaper too
01:13 PM fragalot: and it seems to be harder and denser than granite.. so i don't see why it wouldn't work
01:14 PM miss0r: hehe. The misses thought I was crazy when I started 'cooking' granite in a huge fryingpan, after I washed it clean. I think she damn nearly left me when I started doing it in the kitchen :]
01:14 PM fragalot: miss0r: I did consider vibrating, but when a single mold will weigh 250 to 300kg,... I don't think I can do that without wrecking something xD
01:14 PM DaViruz: we have a ~2000l vacuum chamber at work. that'd come in handy for some epoxy granite project..
01:14 PM fragalot: miss0r: hahaha
01:15 PM miss0r: It can be done with vibration. But a vacuum is what the 'pros' use. Keep a torch handy for removing the surface boubles before it cures
01:16 PM fragalot: my fear is that a bag will do nothing useful
01:16 PM fragalot: in my mind, it would just suck down to the surface, and suck some epoxy through the port
01:16 PM miss0r: If I were you, i'd build a lid for that mold of yours. (preferable something transparrent) and apply vacuum directly to the mold
01:17 PM fragalot: that'ed be another €250 in plexi :P
01:17 PM miss0r: (keep in mind it needs to be realy stiff/rigid, so that the mold doesn't collapse in the vacuum
01:17 PM miss0r: You 'could' buy a thin plate, and reinforce it.. but i'm just spitballing here
01:18 PM fragalot: i'd need a LOT of ribs to keep it rigid
01:18 PM miss0r: sure. but you could make thoes with plywood
01:18 PM miss0r: wouldn't cost a fortune. It would require some work. But I think it'll be worth it
01:19 PM miss0r: Do you have a cad of your finished project?
01:19 PM fragalot: give me a moment
01:20 PM DaViruz: wouldn't a wood mold let a lot of air in if you put the inside under vacuum?
01:20 PM fragalot: DaViruz: the big fillets with the mold covered in a few coats fo varnish should be alright
01:20 PM miss0r: DaViruz: Theres that chance, yes :] but he will coat it. So I think it'll be fine
01:21 PM fragalot: miss0r: http://a360.co/2sq5LP6
01:21 PM DaViruz: oh, yeah, that should be fine
01:22 PM miss0r: fragalot: What are you planning to do for mounting the rails/bearing blocks?
01:22 PM fragalot: cast iron rails
01:22 PM fragalot: still need to find those
01:22 PM fragalot: can I just order them from you? xD
01:23 PM miss0r: sure :] why cast iron?
01:23 PM fragalot: scrapes easier, but i haven't really checked the thermal expansion properties, if i'm honest...
01:24 PM miss0r: The mini CNC lathe mold I did, I just made some soft steel rails
01:24 PM miss0r: Didn't give heat expansion a thought either, to be honnest :]
01:24 PM fragalot: haha
01:24 PM fragalot: have you noticed anything?
01:24 PM miss0r: but I just surface ground them
01:24 PM fragalot: yeah I can't grind or mill mine
01:25 PM fragalot: only thing I can do is spend a few weekends scraping it in
01:25 PM miss0r: i've noticed nothing. The mold with the cast-in steel rails still look fine where I left it :
01:25 PM fragalot: so i'll need to make sure plenty of material sticks up past the surface xD
01:25 PM fragalot: good. I might just go for CK45 then
01:26 PM miss0r: plenty hehehe 0.2mm? (keep in mind, we are talking scraping here)
01:26 PM fragalot: something like that
01:27 PM miss0r: I milled some pockets in the mold casing, so I had the rails stick out a bit
01:28 PM fragalot: That may have been better than my current plan of casting/painting a layer of silicone
01:28 PM miss0r: you can still do some pockets by hand?
01:29 PM fragalot: certainly, i think I could fit in my "poor man's hand router" in there still
01:30 PM miss0r: I have a few pictures of the cast here: https://imgur.com/a/81yZ9
01:30 PM miss0r: should you find it interresting
01:31 PM miss0r: or just use a chisle(spell) ?
01:32 PM fragalot: the hand router will be much more accurate
01:32 PM miss0r: The bottom of the pocket does not need to be perfect
01:32 PM miss0r: Sure, unless it runs off on'ya
01:32 PM fragalot: it would help though if I got the depth even :P
01:32 PM fragalot: miss0r: hand router
01:32 PM fragalot: it's basically a sharpened hex wrench
01:32 PM fragalot: put through a wooden block
01:33 PM miss0r: Ahh, so unless you have a seizure, you should be good ;)
01:34 PM fragalot: that's a good looking mold you had
01:35 PM fragalot: how thick was that pour?
01:35 PM miss0r: I used one of thoes ikea kitchen plates, leaving the protective plastic on - it pealed right off.
01:35 PM miss0r: If I recall correctly around 220mm
01:35 PM fragalot: decent size
01:36 PM miss0r: Yeah. I was told not to worrie about cracks when doing the epoxy granite mix. Turns out the logic holds up
01:37 PM miss0r: I'll have one last smoke. I have to get up at 2:30 and drive for 300km, and have a look at a lathe that is acting up ;)
01:37 PM fragalot: that sounds very comforting
01:37 PM fragalot: have fun!
01:37 PM miss0r: When looking at it, theres not much pull anywhere in such a cast
01:37 PM sync: enleth: I just tried edta in water, it works well
01:37 PM miss0r: because the 'thickness' of the epoxy is very small
01:39 PM miss0r: I spoke to my brother about it. He is a chemical engineer, working with QC of epoxy casting & painting
01:40 PM fragalot: that's cheating
01:40 PM miss0r: unfortunatly he could not offer alot of insight on the epoxy granite mixture. But he gave me a cheat sheet of epoxy thickness, with chance of cracking at a given ambient temperature ect.
01:41 PM * fragalot had not given that much thought
01:41 PM miss0r: Basically pouring a mold like the one I did, would not be possible in one go, had it been pure epoxy
01:41 PM fragalot: well yeah
01:41 PM fragalot: wouldn't be very stiff either
01:42 PM fragalot: and i'd imagine it would warp like hell
01:42 PM miss0r: it would crack badly as it contracts :] but with the granite dividing the epoxy up, you are en theory looking at alot of thin layers curing side by side
01:42 PM miss0r: Anyway. thoes are my five cents I think. I'll be going now.
01:43 PM miss0r: See you around ;)
01:43 PM fragalot: ttyl
02:09 PM gloops: http://www.rapidmetals.co.uk/?portfolio=cast-iron
02:09 PM gloops: not much info though, need to call
02:11 PM gloops: http://www.alro.com/datacatalog/017-castiron.pdf
02:11 PM fragalot: gloops: howcome you've never linked me this site?
02:11 PM fragalot: https://www.abtec4abrasives.com
02:11 PM fragalot: it's like a toy store i've walked into
02:12 PM gloops: ive never used them
02:13 PM enleth: sync: interesting, I'll have to try. I've checked EDTA prices and it's not that expensive
02:13 PM gloops: most of the continuous casting places are larger concerns, no price list online
02:13 PM fragalot: gloops: i'm just going to use tool steel instead
02:14 PM fragalot: i can get that much easier, and I doubt i'll notice the difference
02:14 PM gloops: tool steel? bit hard to scrape by hand?
02:15 PM gloops: youve also got to drill and tap this
02:15 PM fragalot: CK45 machines very well
02:17 PM gloops: so a pre fitting grind, but will still need levelling in situ after casting
02:17 PM fragalot: I don't have the equiptment to grind or mill these flat
02:18 PM gloops: lol, youve set yourself a challenge here really fragalot
02:18 PM fragalot: so all I can do is grind it closer in-situ & finish up by scraping
02:18 PM fragalot: yes I have :D
02:18 PM fragalot: I could mill it on the RF45, but I feel that all that would do is make it worse with something that's 800mm long
02:18 PM fragalot: and even though my jointer uses HSS blades, I doubt it would like steel :P
02:19 PM gloops: how about using ground stock to start with, ally maybe
02:19 PM gloops: nothing is moving on it
02:19 PM fragalot: that's also an option
02:22 PM gloops: how is the steel held in situ during casting - screw to the plywood?
02:22 PM fragalot: bolted through plywood from outside
02:23 PM gloops: should be reasonably true to one another then, surface wise
02:24 PM fragalot: it should be a good start, yeah
02:29 PM gloops: frame materials all seem to have their pros and cons, there is no ideal diy solution
02:29 PM fragalot: yup
02:53 PM gloops: there was someone on facebook building an 8x4 router using wood, it looked ok the way he was doing it, despite a lot of warnings it would move and shrink etc, he posted pics every day, fast progress - then when it got right to the end, almost ready for testing, it all stopped, no pics, no more posts
02:56 PM fragalot: it's easy for life to get in the way,..
02:57 PM gloops: yes probably something like that - we did suspect, being bitter and cynical etc, that it had already shifted and wouldnt work lol
02:57 PM fragalot: my current 3D printer is made of black multiplex
02:58 PM fragalot: doesn't shift enough to make a difference
02:59 PM gloops: hmm, well a quick kiln dried 8ft 4x2 probably has a bit more potential twisting in it
02:59 PM fragalot: oh yeah
02:59 PM fragalot: I would not want to use solid wood
03:00 PM fragalot: plywood box sections work fine though
03:00 PM fragalot: not the most rigid of constructions, but good enough to get going, really
03:01 PM gloops: ive been sorely tempted to use wood because of the ease of construction, but managed to fight off the urge for an easy life
03:02 PM gloops: id probably go for old reclaimed wood, floor joists or rafters or something, they havent got much movement left in them if kept dry or stable anyway
03:02 PM TurBoss-shop: hello
03:02 PM fragalot: gloops: until you cut into them
03:02 PM gloops: but nothing to do with your machine anyway heh
03:03 PM fragalot: and they will still warp with seasonal changes
03:03 PM gloops: hello TurBoss
03:05 PM TurBoss-shop: yo
03:05 PM TurBoss-shop: o/
03:05 PM fragalot: hi TurBoss-shop
03:16 PM roycroft: kiln dried lumber is a lot like cold rolled steel
03:16 PM fragalot: except that cold rolled only warps when you chip away at it
03:16 PM roycroft: it's nice and straight and smooth until you release the tension the the drying process tries to check
03:17 PM fragalot: kiln dried will warp if you enter the shop straight washing your hair withotu drying it properly
03:17 PM fragalot: straight after*
03:17 PM fragalot: I need sleep >.>
03:17 PM roycroft: and i would argue that kiln dried wood cannot, by definition, be furniture grade
03:18 PM roycroft: not only does the tension need to be released
03:18 PM roycroft: which can successfully be done, albeit quite wastefully
03:18 PM roycroft: but the kiln drying process damages the wood fibers and tends to "muddy" the grain in a way that can never be fixed
03:18 PM fragalot: how would one go about doing that? steam?
03:19 PM fragalot: or leave it alone for a few years and hope it fixes itself
03:19 PM roycroft: no, by machining it way oversize, letting it air dry a bit, machining a bit more off, air dry it some more, repeat for a few months
03:20 PM fragalot: i'm off, gnite!
03:20 PM roycroft: but to be sure the wood will remain stable, you need to cut it like 1.5-2cm oversize when you start
03:20 PM roycroft: which is horribly wateful
03:20 PM roycroft: wasteful
03:21 PM roycroft: you can expect that much twist/warp
03:21 PM roycroft: depending on species and how it was handled in the kiln
03:21 PM roycroft: now if it was air dried for a year or two before kilning, it won't have as much internal tension any more
03:23 PM roycroft: but if you take freshly cut wood at 98% moisture content and shove it directly in a kiln and bring it down to 12% mc, you're going to have a lot of problems with it
03:25 PM gloops: roycroft no..youre not going to have problems with it, the people who buy it at the DIY shed are lol
03:27 PM roycroft: if you're using it to frame a shed it will be fine
03:28 PM * roycroft has a new, fairly signficant problem
03:29 PM roycroft: i've been spending a lot of time looking at workflow and efficiencies that will make me more productive, and therefore able to make more profit
03:30 PM roycroft: and the conclusion i come to, no matter how i approach things, is that i need a cnc router
03:30 PM roycroft: it's not a want, it's a pissing time and money down the train if i don't have one thing
03:30 PM roycroft: that's not the problem
03:30 PM roycroft: the problem is that i don't have room for one
03:30 PM roycroft: not of any appreciable size
03:31 PM roycroft: i'm even trying to figure out where i could put a vertical one
03:31 PM roycroft: which is not what i want to build, but it would be less of a space problem than a big horizontal one
03:32 PM roycroft: but even that's tough
03:32 PM gloops: hmm, not really looked at the added problems a vertical machine would present
03:32 PM roycroft: building an extension would be difficult
03:32 PM roycroft: zoning issues
03:32 PM gloops: gravity obviously the main thing
03:32 PM roycroft: yes, the y axis motor would have to be quite beefy to lift the whole gantry
03:33 PM roycroft: probably dual motors
03:33 PM roycroft: and big ones
03:33 PM roycroft: although it would be wise to counterweight the gantry
03:33 PM gloops: no backlash though
03:33 PM roycroft: there are easier ways to eliminate backlash :)
03:34 PM roycroft: if i could build one with an easily installable/removable gantry that might be doable
03:34 PM roycroft: it would be fairly easy to store the gantry
03:34 PM roycroft: and the bed could be hoisted overhead for storage when not in use
03:36 PM roycroft: what this gets down to, i'm afraid, is that i need to rent shop space in order to make my living in the shop, but i can't afford to rent shop space until i'm making my living in the shop
03:36 PM gloops: the size is a problem, mines only about half sheet - by the time youve left space to get around it its a lot of room gone, i have found i can store a lot under it though
03:36 PM roycroft: i'm trying to get everything together in my home shops and dip my toes in the market so that when it's time to switch over to doing it full-time i'm good to go with everything
03:37 PM roycroft: i'm good at storing things under/over things
03:37 PM roycroft: but i'm running out of floor space
03:37 PM roycroft: in fact, i'm out of floor space
03:37 PM roycroft: just last weekend i got a new dust colletor, and installed it in a shed that's adjacent to my shop
03:37 PM roycroft: and pulled the old one out of the shop
03:38 PM roycroft: but then i got a drum sander the next day that has almost the exact same footprint as the old dust collector
03:38 PM roycroft: so i gained a much needed machine, but no real estate gain
03:38 PM roycroft: it's worse, actually, because the drum sander weighs about 100kg and is not on wheels
03:38 PM roycroft: so it's a static real estate consumer
03:39 PM roycroft: i'm going to build a new stand for it very soon - casters will arrive on monday, and i have the design almost finished
03:39 PM roycroft: but still space is really tight
03:39 PM roycroft: i'm thinking that the sheldon horizontal mill might need to go :(
03:40 PM roycroft: i really really don't want to get rid of that, even though it's not working
03:40 PM roycroft: i could get it working brilliantly with a few hours work
03:42 PM roycroft: as i was discussing the other day, i just got a festool sander - my first festool machine
03:42 PM roycroft: the sander is brilliant
03:42 PM roycroft: the systainer i hate
03:43 PM roycroft: but i've come to not hate the idea of a modular storage system like the systainer
03:43 PM roycroft: i just do not like the talos/festool manifestation of the idea
03:43 PM roycroft: the things are bulky, odd-shaped, and abs is a horrible material for something like that
03:44 PM roycroft: but if i designed a modular system like that that i could make out of wood i might be able to recover quite a bit of shop space
03:45 PM roycroft: and btw, besides just not liking the systainer, there is another really good reason not to have them
03:45 PM roycroft: if ever my shop door is open and someone drives by and sees a stack of systainers, i become a major target to be burgled
03:45 PM roycroft: a stack of nondescript wooden boxes, not so much
03:51 PM Rab: The systainer line looks tailor-made to assist someone made of money and fanatically anally-retentive to keep a spotlessly clean and meticulously organized shop.
03:52 PM Rab: I think some metal shelving with stolen distribution containers might be 90% as effective at 10% of the price.
03:53 PM gloops: yes you also need kennel space for 2 german shepherds
03:54 PM Rab: Like that guy with the self-built micron-precise lathe, typical festool systainer customer.
03:54 PM DaViruz: systainers are a pain in the ass when you need one in the middle of a stack
03:54 PM DaViruz: and they are a pain in the ass to open and close
04:00 PM gloops: well, i took my favourite potato peeling knife in the garage to bare wires with, now its missing, had that knife for years, there is no other knife like it for peeling spuds and carrots and swedes
04:02 PM roycroft: i ignore discussions about festool/systainers that focus on how much they cost
04:02 PM roycroft: that is usually a religious issue
04:02 PM roycroft: you're either a member of the church of festool or want to ear that church down
04:02 PM Tom_itx: roycroft, you just need a rich uncle to croak and leave it all to you
04:02 PM Tom_itx: then you could make your shop the size you need
04:03 PM roycroft: with my very small amount of shop space, efficiency of storage and a highly organized shop are of paramount importance
04:03 PM roycroft: i do not dislike systainers because they are expensive
04:03 PM roycroft: they're really not for what they are
04:03 PM roycroft: i don't think they're terribly functional
04:03 PM roycroft: that's my issue with them
04:03 PM roycroft: and being made of abs, they will get broken
04:05 PM DaViruz: i find them useful for transporting a selection of stuff on a trolley.
04:05 PM roycroft: the odd shape of a systainer wastes a lot of space
04:05 PM DaViruz: in a workshop i don't see any point at all
04:05 PM roycroft: daviruz: that's the big appeal
04:06 PM roycroft: in a small workshop that can actually be useful, when one has to store tools/hardware very compactly, and pull out what is needed for a job
04:07 PM roycroft: i envision a couple trolleys, storing every thing in extreme high density, and when starting a job pulling out the boxes that contain the tools/hardwre needed for that job, putting them on a trolley, and rolling them out into the shop
04:07 PM roycroft: i do some onsite work as well
04:07 PM roycroft: so hauling into a van would happen at times
04:07 PM roycroft: but yes, to your overall point
04:08 PM roycroft: the festool/systainer system is ideal for folks doing high end remodeling jobs, where they need to cart their shop to the jobsite, and work in a very clean and organized manner at the jobsite
04:08 PM DaViruz: i have everything needed to field balance machines in a systainer stack. that is fairly convenient
04:08 PM DaViruz: until you encounter stairs
04:08 PM roycroft: build a trolley that can handle the stairs :)
04:09 PM DaViruz: i have yet to try one that works well
04:10 PM roycroft: you just need to make one with big wheels, like 300mm diameter
04:10 PM DaViruz: hm
04:12 PM gloops: Firefighters and police are at the scene after a reported explosion at a convenience store in Leicester
04:12 PM DaViruz: i think i'll have to try that
04:12 PM gloops: wow..looks like the store is..gone
04:12 PM roycroft: big, wide wheels that can be underinflated
04:13 PM roycroft: slightly underinflated
04:13 PM roycroft: just enough to make sure you don't damage the stairs
04:13 PM jym: gloops: It's just some kid that lit his fart on fire after eating one of those quicki-mart burritos
04:13 PM DaViruz: the sites i'm at damaging the stairs are never a consideration
04:14 PM Tom_itx: jym, some of those come with a hazardous warining label
04:14 PM gloops: cant post a link - its dark, theres a row of shops with a gap in them, fire in the gap lol, the shop is totally gone
04:14 PM gloops: not funny really, just looks strange
04:14 PM jym: Tom_itx: or should anyway =)
04:15 PM roycroft: yeah, that just made the news here, gloops
04:16 PM gloops: https://www.thesun.co.uk/video/news/building-on-fire-following-reports-of-an-explosion-in-leicester/
04:17 PM gloops: wow they even put 10 second ads on major incident videos!
04:17 PM roycroft: oh for fuck's sake
04:17 PM roycroft: a student at a high school in lousiana was helping a classmate with math problems
04:17 PM roycroft: and was writing out an equation that involved a square root sign
04:18 PM roycroft: other students saw him draw the square root sign and thought it was a symbol for a gun
04:18 PM roycroft: the cops were called and the student interrogated
04:18 PM roycroft: that's insane
04:18 PM Tom_itx: gloops, are those stone or wood buildings
04:18 PM roycroft: http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/nation-world/national/article201603654.html
04:18 PM gloops: red brick
04:19 PM jym: roycroft: WTF, I would have told them all to FUCK OFF
04:19 PM gloops: probably gas
04:19 PM roycroft: i guess we know what needs to happen next
04:19 PM roycroft: we need to ban math equations that involve square roots
04:19 PM jym: roycroft: ban math in school?
04:19 PM Tom_itx: jym, they nearly have anyway
04:20 PM jym: roycroft: % <--- ZOMG it's a secret nazi symbol!!!!
04:20 PM * roycroft notes that people of all parts of the political spectrum are very good at working against their own self-interests and goals
04:20 PM sync: roycroft: just write ^0.5
04:20 PM sync: much less offensive.
04:21 PM jym: roycroft: you mean shoving their heads up their asses?
04:21 PM roycroft: that is the standard posture of most americans these days, it seems, jym
04:21 PM jym: sync: ^ <--- ZOMG satan symbol
04:21 PM jym: roycroft: s/americans/everyone/
04:21 PM roycroft: it doesn't matter if they have liberal arses or conservative arses
04:21 PM roycroft: they all have arses stuffed with their own heads
04:22 PM roycroft: i should head back to the shop
04:22 PM roycroft: this vertical router idea is somewhat intriguing, but i don't have time to get into it any more right now
04:28 PM gloops: roy, i dont know much about machines, cnc, linux or any of that, but one thing i can say with confidence - its going to take ages to build lol
04:28 PM Tom_itx: naw, 2 months tops
04:29 PM gloops: i was just short of completion at 2 months, so yes that sounds about right
04:30 PM gloops: throw on 4-8 weeks for all the parcels to arrive
04:36 PM roycroft: i've been working on the cnc conversion of my mill/drill for about 3 years now :)
04:37 PM roycroft: there's not much to do except the conversion itself at this point - i need to procure some ball screws and then just start fabricating the mounts/brackets/etc.
04:37 PM roycroft: i keep getting sidetracked on other projects
04:38 PM roycroft: when i really need it i'll finish it
04:46 PM Deejay: gn8
04:50 PM gloops: you know, with a vertical router, providing you have the gantry running horizontal, the Y upright, the y motor only has to lift the weight of the z axis, thats not a massive weight, the z motor would lift 2/3rds of it anyway in a horizontal table
04:52 PM gloops: although with added cutting forces, i suppose it becomes significant, slip a problem as well with downward rapids
04:52 PM Tom_itx: counterweights
04:53 PM Tom_itx: they just go in different places on a vertical machine
05:02 PM gloops: i should have thought about that first
05:03 PM Tom_itx: so far i haven't needed any
05:05 PM JT-Shop: dang we are still under a flood warning until monday night
05:22 PM roycroft: yeah, i was thinking about that, gloops
05:22 PM roycroft: running the gantry horizontally really reduces the motor siz for the y
05:22 PM roycroft: but i also mentioned counterweights earlier :)
05:23 PM * roycroft keeps coming in from the shop because he's doing field engineering today, and does not have a cad workstation in the shop
05:33 PM CaptHindsight: the rivers and streams are running pretty high around here as well
06:38 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
06:48 PM TurBoss-shop: Hmmm.... question: If open a ngc file from the python interface, how I reload gremlim and gcodeviewer?
06:50 PM rene-dev: axis-remote --reload
06:51 PM rene-dev: but there is probably a better way :D
06:51 PM TurBoss-shop: checking :D
06:51 PM TurBoss-shop: thanks
07:08 PM TurBoss-shop: doesn't work :D
07:09 PM TurBoss-shop: is hazzy arround?
07:09 PM TurBoss-shop: :P
07:09 PM * TurBoss-shop summons Kurt
07:09 PM hazzy: Yes!
07:09 PM TurBoss-shop: hello \o/
07:09 PM rene-dev: that probably only works for axis
07:09 PM * hazzy tries to remember
07:10 PM TurBoss-shop: self.command.mode(linuxcnc.MODE_AUTO)
07:10 PM TurBoss-shop: self.command.program_open('./program.ngc')
07:10 PM TurBoss-shop: I'm on AXIS :)
07:10 PM TurBoss-shop: hmm ncam does
07:11 PM TurBoss-shop: checking
07:11 PM rene-dev: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/axis-remote.1.html
07:11 PM rene-dev: ah, yes. check nativecam
07:11 PM TurBoss-shop: ty
07:11 PM hazzy: I think you can call .load() on gremlin instance
07:12 PM hazzy: I don't think you have the pass the file, gremlin gets it from LCNC status
07:13 PM hazzy: Oh, in axis I don't know :)
07:14 PM TurBoss-shop: :P
07:19 PM * hazzy can't find where ncam refreshes the view
07:21 PM TurBoss-shop: https://github.com/FernV/NativeCAM/blob/abfe0c480ffa8947fa41fd1c383cedf60ad9b963/ncam.py#L4221
07:24 PM TurBoss-shop: got somthing
07:24 PM TurBoss-shop: program is loaded and runs
07:24 PM hazzy: Thanks TurBoss-shop, it was hiding from me.
07:24 PM TurBoss-shop: but gremlin and de code viewr shows the old program
07:39 PM TurBoss-shop: got iy
07:39 PM TurBoss-shop: it
08:27 PM ASRock_pc is now known as Tom_itx
08:27 PM Tom_itx is now known as Guest21471
08:27 PM dioz: what's the difference between a mill and a drill press?
08:28 PM Guest21471: mill will take side loads
08:28 PM Guest21471: drill press won't
08:28 PM dioz: that was a dumb question on my part
08:28 PM dioz: sorry
08:28 PM dioz: once you said it i was like : "duh"
08:30 PM dioz: any suggestions on where to find an old used lathe?
08:36 PM Tom_shop: craigslist
09:45 PM XXCoder: whew a lot done today and yeserday
11:36 PM pink_vampire: hi
11:37 PM XXCoder: hey
11:41 PM XXCoder: pink_vampire: worked in downstairs, finished wiring networking and finished putting in isulation. yay! :)
11:41 PM XXCoder: pretty soon can install drywalls and finally start on paint and floor
11:42 PM pink_vampire: coooll!!
11:42 PM pink_vampire: i love when stuff getting done
11:43 PM XXCoder: yeah
11:43 PM XXCoder: sheetrock walls is going to suck.
11:45 PM pink_vampire: why?
11:45 PM pink_vampire: it is very easy to do
11:45 PM XXCoder: I suppose but this 1946 house has narrow doors and very steep stairs
11:45 PM XXCoder: just bringing em in is going to suck.
11:47 PM pink_vampire: cut each one to 4
11:49 PM XXCoder: ehh dunno lol
11:49 PM XXCoder: would have to ponentally have to saw all of em outside in rain
11:54 PM pink_vampire: cut it the store
11:55 PM XXCoder: 61 of em?
11:55 PM XXCoder: i kinda doubt they would do 61 cuts
11:56 PM pink_vampire: woww
11:56 PM XXCoder: yeah, entire living room and my brother's bedroom
11:56 PM XXCoder: as well as some areas where bottom 2' was cut off to get rid of mold
11:56 PM XXCoder: you could still use downstairs restroom but theres kinda no privacy
11:58 PM pink_vampire: mmm