#linuxcnc Logs
Feb 23 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:27 AM sd_ is now known as Guest31350
12:41 AM IchGucksLive: good morning from freezig cold germany
12:43 AM jesseg: Morning IchGucksLive
12:44 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.3dprintersonlinestore.com/anycubic-photon $430
12:50 AM fragalot: morning
12:51 AM fragalot: CaptHindsight: reckon it's any good?
12:51 AM CaptHindsight: depends on the software
12:52 AM CaptHindsight: you could always swap out the controller if it stinks
12:52 AM CaptHindsight: not much to it
12:52 AM CaptHindsight: but it's amazing how often they still get it wrong
12:53 AM fragalot: yeah...
12:53 AM CaptHindsight: another for $450 https://www.3dprintersbay.com/micromake-l2-uv-sla-3d-printer
12:54 AM CaptHindsight: $500 https://www.3dprintersbay.com/wanhao-duplicator-7-sla-3d-printer
12:54 AM fragalot: hehe. anti wobble kit
12:57 AM CaptHindsight: there some other funny Engrish in there as well
01:01 AM IchGucksLive: the prices are falling and the quality gets up of this printer systems
01:01 AM IchGucksLive: when will be the point as they turn quality is pricy
01:01 AM fragalot: yeah it's incredible what you can buy these days
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: i got a SFU2005 Rolled in shop from 1983 50cm at a price of 675Euros
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: now its a C7 at 60
01:03 AM fragalot: lies
01:03 AM fragalot: there were no euros in 1983
01:04 AM IchGucksLive: eqal
01:04 AM IchGucksLive: 1300DM
01:05 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: did you hear somwhere about this DM556T drivers now swarming the bay
01:05 AM IchGucksLive: is there a real Digit inside
01:05 AM IchGucksLive: i do not see the COM port
01:05 AM fragalot: i have not?
01:06 AM IchGucksLive: so many fake drivers
01:06 AM fragalot: yeah..
01:06 AM IchGucksLive: D T H M Q
01:06 AM fragalot: gloops just bought 2 new drivers that don't seem to match the ones he already has
01:07 AM IchGucksLive: yes i can see also i orderd 12 tb6600
01:07 AM IchGucksLive: in d i got 442 chips inside
01:07 AM IchGucksLive: and i got
01:08 AM IchGucksLive: its 50cent price difference but on mass produktion it is thousends
01:08 AM IchGucksLive: if not milions
01:09 AM IchGucksLive: and the think heads up on your exspectation
01:09 AM IchGucksLive: they are build for nema17
01:10 AM IchGucksLive: 24V max and read 40Vdc
01:10 AM fragalot: yeah...
01:10 AM IchGucksLive: so as i got low cost 36V PSU and 425oz it is a real nightmare header
01:10 AM IchGucksLive: but 8.5Euros not 40
01:11 AM IchGucksLive: the fake M542 T or H are equal to DM556t
01:11 AM IchGucksLive: in price
01:12 AM IchGucksLive: Wear the onec that go the programable default says no 400Steps starting at 800
01:13 AM IchGucksLive: the once that got the 400... Real print on got no Dfault com
01:13 AM IchGucksLive: so all Fake
01:13 AM IchGucksLive: its a mess
01:14 AM IchGucksLive: and as taobao the center manufacture webpaige they all come out of the leadshine factory
01:14 AM fragalot: fake news.
01:14 AM IchGucksLive: at 24 euros eatch
01:15 AM fragalot: i'm off to work -- back in 45.
01:15 AM IchGucksLive: give it a M542 or DM556 search https://world.taobao.com/
01:17 AM IchGucksLive: im off later dont freeze
01:17 AM IchGucksLive: keep oil floating
02:08 AM RyanS: The spindle nose on my BF30 mill gets roasting hot when running at 3000 RPM, can only touch the tool holder (ISO 30) for a second. I've removed the spindle cartridge, but not sure how to proceed
02:21 AM Deejay: moin
03:09 AM rob_h: check to see if bearing over packed with grease , that makes a hot spindle but 3000 is not high so should not be hot..
03:10 AM rob_h: is spindle direct drive or belt.. if direct drive motor heat will be transferred if no insulation in place
03:21 AM RyanS: yeah the motor was hot. it has a gearbox and the top of spindle cartridge has a spline, i guess that's direct drive? http://rustan.ru/sites/default/files/instructions/pasas_bf30_vario_frezavimo_st_en.pdf pages 41-42 for explosion of parts
03:30 AM enleth: RyanS: wait for it to cool down, extend the quill as far as it can go and lock it in place somehow in the extended position, run it
03:31 AM enleth: then check again where exactly it starts to get hot
03:32 AM enleth: RyanS: that might give away the location of whatever it is that overheats
03:32 AM enleth: its not direct drive, it's got a gearbox
03:33 AM enleth: the motor would probably be on fire by now if it could heat up the toolholder end of the spindle so much, so it's not the motor
03:33 AM enleth: and you'd definitely notice it getting hot, right?
03:34 AM enleth: generally, extending the quill will tell you if it starts to heat up at the very end by the toolholder, or up top near the head
03:36 AM enleth: RyanS: oh, and run it without the spindle cartridge while it's out
03:36 AM enleth: see if it heats up that way
03:36 AM enleth: if it stays cool, it's spindle bearings
03:37 AM enleth: note whether any bearings in direct contact with the spindle stay in the machine when you remove the cartrigde - they are probably not spinning, it could be those
03:38 AM RyanS: ok, well the cartridge has been removed so I can do that test before putting it back in
03:40 AM enleth: BTW, did it start doing that after some time or is it new and already acting up?
03:43 AM RyanS: it's 3 years old and only started happening in the last week or two
03:44 AM enleth: any change in the sound it makes?
03:47 AM RyanS: it sounds pretty much the same, the gearbox is fairly loud at top speed but quieter than a gearbox lathe
03:48 AM RyanS: it's probably a bit overdue for it's first oil change. could that be the problem?
03:53 AM enleth: does it actually have oil in there?
03:54 AM enleth: as long as there's enough of it, shouldn't be a problem, it's an extremely low duty gearbox anyway
03:54 AM enleth: I'd have never expected a mill of this type to have oil in the gearbox
03:55 AM enleth: grease, if anything
03:55 AM RyanS: yeah it's up to the marker on the sight glass
03:56 AM enleth: interesting
03:56 AM enleth: if the oil is clear and doesn't have a layer of crap at the bottom of the sump, it should be fine I guess
04:02 AM RyanS: it recommended ISO-100 weight oil.. but I only have umm 46 on hand so I guess thats too thin
04:04 AM enleth: you should be able to tell if it's the gearbox or what anyway
04:04 AM enleth: see where it starts to get hot, what's the temperature gradient, where it points
04:06 AM RyanS: cool, thanks i'll check it out
04:48 AM jthornton: morning
04:52 AM XXCoder: good morning from frozen tacoma
04:56 AM jthornton: now we have a flood warning on top of a flood watch
05:05 AM sd_ is now known as Guest95545
05:18 AM Deejay: frozen flood ;)
05:19 AM XXCoder: fun
05:55 AM Tom_L: 33°F still thawing
05:56 AM jym: 24 and snow on the ground
06:06 AM jthornton: 50°F and the rain has just passed by... been raining all night
06:31 AM Deejay: utf8 fail again
06:33 AM jym: ASCII RULES
06:37 AM jym: Now 23F
06:40 AM Deejay: 23 what?
06:40 AM Deejay: potatoes?
06:44 AM fragalot: °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
06:45 AM Deejay: utf8 success!!!!
06:46 AM jym: Deejay: 23 F degrees
06:46 AM Deejay: ah, thanks ;)
07:16 AM jthornton: °Ɉ½ ⅓ ⅔
08:00 AM * Loetmichel is just cleaning his desk... coworker comes by: "it looks more and more like you are an operator in the matrix!" -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16995&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
08:54 AM jelly-home is now known as jelly
09:34 AM Dave_Elec_ is now known as Dave_Elec
10:26 AM Loetmichel: *HRRRRMPF* 500++ Displayport cables in storage at work at least 6 different brands. And NONE has pin20 (3,3V) connected thru. MAAAN, i just need 20cm cable with DP-plug to enlongate an active DP->HDMI-adapter :-(
11:25 AM gregcnc: people are awfully busy working for a friday
11:32 AM jthornton: Governor Lepetomane: Work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work. [looks at his secretary's breasts] Hello, boys. You have a good night's rest? I missed you.
11:36 AM fragalot: jthornton: are you implying government workers actually work?
11:39 AM roycroft: no more and no less than in any other bureaucracy
11:40 AM XXCoder: fragalot: my bro work for one
11:40 AM XXCoder: and no he does not "work". he is overworked
11:40 AM XXCoder: typical goverment management: calculate minium workers needed to do job, then cut 20% off.
11:41 AM roycroft: i don't get why people think that "government" is any different than any other large organization
11:41 AM roycroft: they all have their strengths, their flaws, their dysfunction
11:42 AM XXCoder: there certainly is few pork projects but goverment is almost always underfunded.
11:42 AM gregcnc: all the stories about .gov jobs, pensions etc
11:42 AM XXCoder: offices etc is always shabby because no money to improve buildings.
11:42 AM fragalot: or to improve workflow
11:42 AM fragalot: which is one of the "getting nothing done" causes
11:42 AM roycroft: that's the same in a lot of large corporations
11:43 AM roycroft: i can understand mistrust of government
11:43 AM XXCoder: roy yeah. theres some piles of storage because its rather hard to sell off useless goverment properity
11:43 AM gloops: the days of the cushy state job are over here too
11:43 AM XXCoder: same as corp here
11:43 AM roycroft: what i cannot understand is that folks who mistrust government almost always blindly trust the private sector to "self-police"
11:43 AM gloops: well, for 95% of workers anyway
11:43 AM XXCoder: better now on that than before
11:44 AM XXCoder: gloops: yeah some pork projects
11:44 AM XXCoder: typically miliary-industry loop
11:44 AM gloops: teachers, health care staff, civil servants, police etc, even down to property maintenance guys
11:45 AM roycroft: how is that kind of behavior any different to enron's turning off power plants intentionally to jack up rates and then laughing about how "grandma's electric bill will be going up"?
11:45 AM gregcnc: private sector is free to do what they want .gov is working for the people
11:45 AM roycroft: in theory :)
11:45 AM roycroft: don't get me wrong
11:46 AM gregcnc: yes, in theory
11:46 AM roycroft: i'm not by any means saying there are no problems with government
11:46 AM roycroft: there are YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE problems with government
11:46 AM roycroft: but the solution is not to eliminate government
11:46 AM fragalot: of course not
11:46 AM gloops: the government creates the conditions for coporations these days
11:46 AM roycroft: because the private sector screw people over at least as badly
11:46 AM fragalot: but having to do things inefficiently is a pet peeve of mine
11:46 AM roycroft: the solution is to fix government
11:47 AM gregcnc: simply not the same problem nor methods can be used to fix them
11:47 AM roycroft: i have a very healthy mistrust of both government and corporations
11:47 AM roycroft: that's all i'm saying
11:48 AM gloops: someone i know is married to a copper - hes leaving the force because of the tonnes of extra unpaid BS that is steadily heaped higher and higher every year
11:48 AM gregcnc: most people are just outraged tax money is misspent, they don't think they are getting what they pay for that's all
11:48 AM roycroft: sure
11:48 AM roycroft: as they should be
11:48 AM gloops: same with teachers - more new teachers give up than stay in teaching, 12-14 hours work a day for 8 hours pay
11:48 AM roycroft: but where is the outrage when monopolistic corporations overcharge them?
11:49 AM gregcnc: they knew it up front
11:49 AM roycroft: so knowing you're going to be raped before the fact is better than discovering that you've been raped after the fact?
11:49 AM CaptHindsight: too busy on snapchat or on, wait....
11:49 AM roycroft: when you have no way to avoid it
11:50 AM gregcnc: people do feel the same way about cable co, telco, poco u name it, but .gov make people really mad
11:50 AM roycroft: i'm trying to see what the difference is
11:50 AM fragalot: .gov tries to hide it
11:50 AM gloops: what they did in the thatcher/reagan era was - destroy the unions, destroy the communities associated with certain industries, open up immigration - from that time the end result is inevitab;e
11:50 AM roycroft: in both cases, at the end of the day you've been raped
11:50 AM fragalot: and do it "for the people"
11:50 AM fragalot: that's the only difference
11:50 AM CaptHindsight: you'll have to refrom society, people are dumbed down to keep them in line and feeling powerless
11:50 AM gregcnc: some people are fine paying for those services
11:50 AM Tom_L: gregcnc, you can't un'subscribe to them
11:51 AM gregcnc: you can
11:51 AM roycroft: yes, gregcnc
11:51 AM gregcnc: just most people won't and stil complain
11:51 AM fragalot: like I said earlier, what bugs me is inefficiency most of all
11:51 AM roycroft: i know that government makes people mad
11:51 AM fragalot: a LOT of people could get the same pay, but only have to come in for 4 hrs, and still get the same thing done at the end of the shift
11:51 AM gloops: Thatcher was so hell bent on destroying organised labour she was prepared to totally dismantle in the industrial infrastructure of the UK and make every skilled worker unemployed
11:51 AM CaptHindsight: roycroft: mad, but they do do anything about it
11:51 AM fragalot: with no other impact on either the company or it's product
11:51 AM roycroft: what i'm trying to understand is *why* government makes people mad and private corporations doing the same thing to them does not make them mad
11:52 AM gregcnc: roycroft I can't answer that, it's just how it is
11:52 AM roycroft: it all makes me mad
11:52 AM fragalot: roycroft: because governments are de-facto inefficient, whilst corporations are only /mostly/ inefficient? :P
11:52 AM roycroft: whether it's government or the private sector
11:52 AM roycroft: when they do things that are wrong i get mad
11:52 AM roycroft: except that's a myth, fragalot
11:52 AM gregcnc: in the ned people have to understand it's just people
11:52 AM roycroft: government do a lot of things well
11:52 AM roycroft: and they do a lot of things badly
11:53 AM gregcnc: and people make mistakes
11:53 AM XXCoder: yeah
11:53 AM roycroft: which is the same thing with the private sector
11:53 AM CaptHindsight: roycroft: many people are like small children, they behave selfishly and against their own interests, like candy and soda for breakfast
11:53 AM roycroft: it's not being government vs. being private sector that is the problem, in my mind
11:53 AM Tom_L: so is this the rag on guberment lunch hour?
11:53 AM roycroft: it's the size of the organization
11:53 AM gloops: private sector bureaucracy is as big as state bureaucracy in many cases
11:53 AM fragalot: Tom_L: yes
11:53 AM gregcnc: private sector has competition and can be forced to be efficient, or just bankrupt when a company sucks and leave a lot of people hanging
11:53 AM roycroft: any organization, government or private, is going to suffer some problems when it gets really big
11:54 AM roycroft: except the private sector mostly does not have competition
11:54 AM Tom_L: if i thought you could fix it, i'd stay and listen...
11:54 AM gregcnc: .gov gets another loan from the fed and keeps on chucgging
11:54 AM roycroft: we do not live in a free market economy
11:54 AM Tom_L: later...
11:54 AM roycroft: we live in a corporate oligarchy
11:54 AM roycroft: you don't like government dictating to you
11:54 AM roycroft: but you're fine with monopolistic corporations dictating to you
11:54 AM gregcnc: no
11:55 AM roycroft: "you" meaning the collective you
11:55 AM roycroft: not any of you personally
11:55 AM holzjunkie: guten abend allerseits
11:55 AM gregcnc: but if comcast has no competitor WTF do i do to get service?
11:55 AM roycroft: exactly
11:55 AM MarcelineVQ: "<roycroft> what i'm trying to understand is *why* government makes people mad and private corporations doing the same thing to them does not make them mad" because people understand the idea of taxes, on the surface, and so they see themselves as paying for their government to do these stupid things, it's harder for most people to see that they pay the corps to do it too
11:55 AM roycroft: and btw, that is the exact situation i'm in
11:55 AM roycroft: i have one option for broadband internet at my house: comcast
11:56 AM CaptHindsight: roycroft: we know, so this sounds like you're just complaining vs offering any solutions to the problems
11:56 AM gregcnc: haha
11:56 AM fragalot: xD
11:56 AM roycroft: i'm not complaining
11:56 AM roycroft: i'm trying to understand how people think
11:56 AM fragalot: good luck
11:56 AM gregcnc: that's a lot fo words to preach to the choir
11:56 AM roycroft: we can't really have solutions if we don't understand the problem
11:56 AM roycroft: i have solutions that i think would work
11:56 AM roycroft: i am not a politician though
11:57 AM Tom_L: running for office?
11:57 AM CaptHindsight: roycroft: not rationally, thats not good for the kings
11:57 AM roycroft: i don't know how to "sell" the solutions to people
11:57 AM MarcelineVQ: you should complain but you should https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KvZI8BsSxw even more :>
11:57 AM holzjunkie: think stupid and you think to complicatet
11:57 AM gregcnc: call the donald and get it working
11:57 AM roycroft: i would be the absolute worst politician ever
11:57 AM holzjunkie: nabend allerseits
11:57 AM roycroft: our current president perhaps notwithstanding
11:57 AM fragalot: gregcnc: I heard he only picks up if you're calling to invite him over for a golf party at marolago?
11:57 AM roycroft: i'd probably be better than him
11:57 AM roycroft: but that's not saying anything at all, really
11:57 AM gloops: Tom_L is right, discussing politics is no more productive than talking about football or cars
11:57 AM gregcnc: then take up golf
11:58 AM Tom_L: yeah
11:58 AM roycroft: i was a mediocre golfer when i played
11:58 AM Tom_L: at least you can throw your clubs when you get pissed
11:58 AM gregcnc: i have to add some macro stuff to my lathe program to get the bar puller running a bar by itself
11:58 AM fragalot: Tom_L: I think that is frowned upon.
11:59 AM Tom_L: so is talking about politics in this channel
11:59 AM gregcnc: I need a taste of fully automatic production
11:59 AM roycroft: and i'm really not trying to have a big conversation about politics
11:59 AM fragalot: seems too popular to be frowned upon
11:59 AM CaptHindsight: roycroft: pick up a current school textbook, look at the crap inside
11:59 AM IchGucksLive: hi all
11:59 AM roycroft: someone made a snide remark about government
11:59 AM holzjunkie: nabend
11:59 AM fragalot: hi IchGucksLive
11:59 AM roycroft: and i reacted to that
11:59 AM roycroft: that's how this got going
11:59 AM IchGucksLive: guten abend holzjunkie
12:00 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: crap like what
12:00 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: watch they "news" they follow
12:00 PM roycroft: revisionist history, for one thing, xxcoder
12:00 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: did you find a pump solution yet? (asking for a friend)
12:00 PM XXCoder: example?
12:00 PM roycroft: the problem with textbooks is that the religious right totally control the texas board of education
12:00 PM holzjunkie: IchGucksLive: nabend schön dich zu lesen
12:00 PM holzjunkie: tut mir leid wenn ich gleich nerv aber ich bräuchte da hilfe
12:01 PM roycroft: who dictate what goes into every textbook used in public chools in the state of texas
12:01 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: yes, sad
12:01 PM roycroft: textbook publishers do not want to publish one version of a textbook for texas and another for the rest of the country
12:01 PM fragalot: roycroft: baloney. there is a clear separation between church and state. Everyone knows this.
12:01 PM roycroft: as a result, the texas board of education controls the textbooks used throughtout the country
12:01 PM XXCoder: roycroft: I remember one where they changed slaves to "colonists" it was called on and books removed
12:02 PM fragalot: that's why your dollar bills say "in god we trust".. because of the separation between church and state.
12:02 PM roycroft: yes, sometimes the religious right go so far that it gets pushed back
12:02 PM CaptHindsight: black colonists in chains that sailed over voluntarily?
12:02 PM gregcnc: it was better when everyone was at work
12:02 PM XXCoder: fragalot: talking about that, one state just passed bill that require "in god we trust" logo in all schools in it
12:02 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: no no, YOU were the colonists!
12:02 PM fragalot: XXCoder: you're joking
12:02 PM XXCoder: nope
12:03 PM roycroft: were that we had actual separation of church and state here
12:03 PM fragalot: that is amazing
12:03 PM roycroft: were that religion would finally fade into oblivion
12:03 PM roycroft: it has nothing to do with morality or faith any more
12:03 PM roycroft: it's just a tool used to manipulate people
12:03 PM fragalot: it never did
12:03 PM XXCoder: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/23/florida-schools-must-display-god-we-trust/366521002/
12:03 PM roycroft: i know a lot of very pious, faithful people
12:03 PM CaptHindsight: well the invisible abgry man in the sky story has kept people controlled for a long time, it works well
12:04 PM roycroft: for the rank and file, religion can be a positive thing
12:04 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: it doesn't even have to be a man, or does he have to be in the sky
12:04 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, it's an alien race watching us
12:04 PM gloops: religion isnt dying out in europe, in the south of france, once of the most devout christian regions, there are now more mosques than churches
12:04 PM roycroft: but its leadership is as corrupt, and always has been as corrupt, as politicians and corporate boards of directors
12:04 PM gloops: christianty might be dying out, religion isnt
12:04 PM XXCoder: roycroft: what made me laugh so hard recently is that shooting happened because god isnt allowed by school. Uh isn't god everywhere and all powerful?
12:04 PM roycroft: ok, i'm done
12:05 PM XXCoder: and its blocked by school walls?
12:05 PM roycroft: this is devolving into xenophobic racist bile again
12:05 PM CaptHindsight: amazing and it's 2018
12:05 PM fragalot: that's what happens when you try to have an adult conversation on the internet. :(
12:06 PM gloops: you mean someone mentioned mosques haha
12:06 PM CaptHindsight: don't underestimate the power of stupid
12:06 PM Tom_L: no cure either
12:06 PM gregcnc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW70dL5430c
12:06 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: I never underestimate myself
12:12 PM XXCoder: gregcnc: saw that yeah
12:12 PM XXCoder: pretty aamzing
12:13 PM gregcnc: Didn't last long, but longer than I expected
12:13 PM IchGucksLive: FIRST light here with the 6DOF clar is clamping
12:13 PM gregcnc: even with no load
12:13 PM IchGucksLive: claw
12:14 PM gloops: siberian blast heading for you Ichs, and the UK
12:14 PM XXCoder: yeah petg has tg of what 90c? surpised it lasted at all
12:14 PM gloops: coldest week of winter next week - they say
12:14 PM XXCoder: petg is tough and flexable enoough so not surpised it worked, but surpised it lasted at all
12:15 PM XXCoder: heh here we at coldest point of winter. 22f last night and will be bit warmer next night
12:15 PM gregcnc: Ferrari I think is working on carbon fiber rods
12:16 PM XXCoder: I saw project where machine prints cf tubes
12:16 PM gloops: there isnt much left of the siberian chill when it gets to us, maybe -6 or 8 C
12:17 PM roycroft: it got down to -6 here last night
12:17 PM gloops: -30C in siberia, couple of hours even breathing that your lungs are like a pair of net curtains
12:17 PM roycroft: coldest night of the winter
12:17 PM roycroft: the first really cold night of the winter
12:17 PM roycroft: and it came at the end of february
12:17 PM gloops: february can be a cruel month
12:17 PM roycroft: we went six weeks into the new year without a single day below freezing
12:17 PM roycroft: that's unheard of, even here
12:18 PM roycroft: but winter arrived last night, for one night
12:20 PM gloops: the wildlife that has struggled on through winter, almost made it, another month or so before the life saving warmth of spring
12:20 PM gloops: february thins out the remaining stragglers
12:20 PM IchGucksLive: Jt-sh
12:20 PM IchGucksLive: JT-Shop:
12:20 PM fragalot: my garden isn't looking the best either with this weather
12:21 PM fragalot: "oh spring is there! let's start growing!" *freezes*
12:21 PM IchGucksLive: fragalot: we planted around 500 seets
12:21 PM IchGucksLive: in boxes ofcause with Moistrure head and light
12:21 PM Tom_L: February is a bit early to think about that here
12:22 PM fragalot: Tom_L: it is for us, but the outdoor plants don't know that
12:22 PM IchGucksLive: Tom_L: it may be around less then 30days here to start in garden
12:22 PM gloops: ive got onions in and shallots, dropped the onion sets in bunches this year, 2kg
12:23 PM IchGucksLive: Onions I GOT a Q to THE USA Onionrings is there a good recip to make them self
12:23 PM Tom_L: may try some steel on the mill later today
12:23 PM Tom_L: just to see
12:23 PM gloops: shallots - plant on the shortest day, harvest on the longest
12:23 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: did you make a test
12:23 PM gloops: not tried any steel yet then Tom?
12:24 PM Tom_L: no
12:24 PM fragalot: Tom_L: good luck :-)
12:24 PM IchGucksLive: im around 2 schooldays away from testing myself
12:24 PM gloops: Ichs sorry no, not even looked at it for over a week, too busy with work
12:24 PM Tom_L: i'll have to see if i even have any 4 flute cutters
12:24 PM gloops: i feel pretty bad about that actually because you have helped me often enough
12:25 PM IchGucksLive: NP
12:25 PM IchGucksLive: i got the parts so i make the best out of anyway
12:25 PM Tom_L: yeah you helped me quite a bit too
12:25 PM IchGucksLive: i will go with the FAKE DM556
12:25 PM Tom_L: at least on the spindle orient stuff
12:25 PM gloops: i think the 1350 screws should be ok
12:25 PM fragalot: Tom_L: you don't need 4flutes for steel (granted, the stiffness helps) :P
12:25 PM Tom_L: i know
12:25 PM Tom_L: i'd rather though
12:26 PM IchGucksLive: Foks im off got a Hard Day in Jail today teatching Freecad
12:26 PM Tom_L: hah
12:26 PM IchGucksLive: BYE Gn8
12:29 PM roycroft: freecad is weird
12:29 PM roycroft: that's my impression so far :)
12:30 PM roycroft: i haven't decided yet if it's good weird, bad weird, or just weird weird
12:30 PM fragalot: I agree with that observation
12:30 PM gloops: its a good candidate to become a cult app, regardless of its ability
12:34 PM holzjunkie: @jt are you here ????
12:38 PM gloops: freecad is what a lot of people expect an open source app to be, and maybe more importantly WANT an open source app to be
12:38 PM roycroft: it lacks good documantion and it is non-intuitive to use
12:38 PM roycroft: fix those problems and it would be more widely accepted
12:38 PM fragalot: roycroft: that does describe a lot of software..
12:38 PM roycroft: fix those problems and it would no longer resemble open source software :)
12:39 PM fragalot: hehe
12:39 PM roycroft: i found the learning curve for solidworks pretty steep
12:39 PM roycroft: but not as steep as freecad seems to be
12:39 PM roycroft: and i was able to take a solidworks class
12:39 PM roycroft: i don't know of any freecad classes
12:40 PM fragalot: roycroft: Ichs is teaching 'm :P
12:40 PM fragalot: all you need to do is move to germany and learn german first
12:40 PM roycroft: i used to be fairly fluent in german, but it's been a few decades
12:40 PM roycroft: i'd have to brush up on it
12:40 PM roycroft: that is certain
12:40 PM fragalot: hehe
12:41 PM fragalot: it'd be cheap for you too, you could move to germany, rent an air-bnb for a year to learn the local language, get a hip replacement and learn to dance the tango, get your hip replaced again, get the freecad tutoring, and move back; and it will still cost you less than getting a tooth pulled in the US
12:42 PM gregcnc: I'll pull your teeth
12:42 PM gloops: ive not really opened freecad for ages, but i did waste a spell of about 3 weeks in it a couple of years back, ichs is right, once you get into it you can work pretty quickly and draw some decent stuff
12:43 PM gregcnc: I have only a vise grip though
12:43 PM XXCoder: and insurance in case you screw that up?
12:43 PM gregcnc: and low on whiskey
12:43 PM fragalot: gregcnc: that last part is a dealbreaker
12:43 PM roycroft: i've not a lot of incentive to learn it at this point
12:43 PM gregcnc: xxcoder we'll both be dead before the court case is over
12:44 PM roycroft: but once my next couple shop projects are complete, i plan on finishing the cnc conversion of my mill/drill
12:44 PM roycroft: and at that point some cam software would be useful
12:44 PM roycroft: that is when i might have a serious go at learning freecad
12:44 PM fragalot: i'm curious how good it's pathing is
12:45 PM XXCoder: I couldnt figure freecad cam out
12:45 PM XXCoder: and 0.17 is changing it
12:45 PM roycroft: it's fairly new afaik
12:45 PM roycroft: and only just starting to work decently
12:45 PM roycroft: so my delay in completing my cnc conversion play in my favor
12:45 PM roycroft: i'm looking at may/june to get back to that project
12:46 PM roycroft: i don't have a sense of the pulse of freecad
12:46 PM gloops: blender on the other hand is probably a surprise to most open source types, its a full weight pro app, probably because it never started out as open source, almost uniquely it went from commercial to open source
12:46 PM roycroft: so i don't know if 3 months means several improvements and maybe a lot more functionality, or if it means only six months to go before a minor update
12:47 PM fragalot: gloops: blender has no cam software though as far as I know?
12:47 PM fragalot: it's a great modelling tool, but that's all it does
12:47 PM fragalot: it's not really suitable for CAD either
12:47 PM XXCoder: so far I see in blender it isn't precision design
12:47 PM XXCoder: more visual art designer
12:48 PM fragalot: yes
12:48 PM gloops: blender does have a cam plugin
12:48 PM gloops: blendercam
12:49 PM gloops: it is primarily a mesh based design tool yes, but it can use curves and vectors, not the tool for mechanical drawing though
12:52 PM roycroft: d
12:53 PM CaptHindsight: freecad certainly doesn't feel like NX, SW, Catia etc
12:54 PM fragalot: yeah it does do things very, very differently
12:54 PM CaptHindsight: I just tried to create a box and then put a hole through it
12:54 PM CaptHindsight: I had to go to the docs
12:55 PM roycroft: one of my concerns about freecad is the lack of a good parts library
12:56 PM roycroft: if i could import my solidworks parts library into freecad i'd be a lot more interested in it
12:56 PM roycroft: i'm not terribly excited about drawing fasteners from scratch
12:58 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, all the tedious stuff
01:00 PM roycroft: i don't think freecad has a hole wizard at this point either
01:00 PM roycroft: but i could be wrong on that
01:01 PM roycroft: the solidworks hole wizard is almost worth the price of admission for that one feature
01:01 PM fragalot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTz2P5RaoDk
01:01 PM fragalot: want.
01:02 PM gregcnc: that shop is around here somehwere
01:19 PM gloops: talking of blender not being good for precision drawing, you will also find precision apps are not good for artistic work, you really do need mesh for making the end of that flute look or cove look right
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: the designers tend to prefer Creo (ProE) for that
01:36 PM phipli: has anyone used FlatCAM?
01:37 PM JT-Shop: how's the sick one doing?
01:38 PM phipli: I put her back out with the others today
01:38 PM phipli: she's not 100%
01:38 PM phipli: but is better than she was
01:38 PM JT-Shop: did you figure out what it was?
01:38 PM phipli: first thing she did was have a bath
01:38 PM phipli: no idea
01:38 PM phipli: the symptoms are the same for most things
01:39 PM phipli: things in the crop are the only thing that are reasonably easy to spot because you can feel it
01:39 PM JT-Shop: I can't even imagine giving a chicken a bath
01:40 PM phipli: she did it herself - a dirt bath
01:40 PM phipli: but sticking them in warm water is meant to help if they're bunged up at the back end
01:40 PM phipli: helps them relax
01:40 PM JT-Shop: ah that I can imagine and watching one have a dirt bath now on camera
01:40 PM phipli: (btw, chickens float)
01:40 PM JT-Shop: lol, and how did you sort that one out?
01:41 PM phipli: never needed to thankfully
01:41 PM JT-Shop: I have one named Pig-Pen
01:41 PM phipli: pig pen the chicken?
01:41 PM roycroft: why would one give a chicken a bath?
01:41 PM phipli: almost rhymes
01:41 PM roycroft: unless the bath is in a big cauldron, with onions and carrots and celery in it
01:42 PM phipli: they bathe in dust / dirt usually roycroft
01:42 PM JT-Shop: yes she takes huge dust baths and when she come out and shakes a big cloud forms
01:42 PM phipli: to keep their feathers in order
01:42 PM JT-Shop: helps with feather mites etc
01:43 PM JT-Shop: I put some ash in with the dirt, some say that helps with the mites
01:44 PM JT-Shop: now I forgot what I came in here for...
01:44 PM phipli: beer?
01:44 PM JT-Shop: not for a couple of hours
01:44 PM JT-Shop: still working lol
01:44 PM phipli: there is a beer festival on in town that I should be at
01:45 PM phipli: but I feel rubbish from a cold
01:45 PM JT-Shop: I remember now the fasteners for the auger assembly... just fitting it to the machine now
01:48 PM CaptHindsight: gloops: what gregcnc said wayback up there ^^^
01:49 PM dean: hello all
01:50 PM CaptHindsight: Howdy dean!
01:50 PM fragalot: hi
01:50 PM dean: have problem with my Synaptic package manager was downloading 3 honeyspot programs after install cant load package manager anymore
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: dean: one your Linuxcnc install? Honeypot apps via Synaptic?
01:51 PM dean: I was on debian because I think its there problem not related to cnc but they sent me here its ok
01:52 PM dean: yes
01:52 PM dean: sysnaptic
01:52 PM dean: synaptic
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: honeypot applications? What names?
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: from what repos?
01:53 PM dean: can remember if you type honeyspot in synaptic package manager and there are only like 4 or 5 I got 3 of them
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: <--- not currently on Debian
01:54 PM gloops: not the software manager is it?
01:54 PM gloops: that nearly always messes up
01:55 PM roycroft: honeyspot, not honeypot
01:55 PM roycroft: big difference
01:55 PM CaptHindsight: dean: are you familiar with command line? https://wiki.debian.org/Apt
01:55 PM dean: no Synaptic package manager
01:55 PM dean: some
01:55 PM roycroft: the former is an app to help you stalk your wife, the latter to catch hackers
01:56 PM dean: ys thats the ones I was reading article and wanted to play with them
01:57 PM CaptHindsight: dean: try apt
01:58 PM dean: k
01:59 PM CaptHindsight: type: apt-get update
01:59 PM dean: I must be also be having trouble with my path
01:59 PM gloops: so the wife needs honeypot if im using honeyspot lol
01:59 PM CaptHindsight: in a terminal
02:00 PM CaptHindsight: wonder if he installed some app that hosed his system
02:01 PM CaptHindsight: https://itsfoss.com/apt-get-linux-guide/
02:01 PM gloops: sudo apt get , sudo apt install < amirite?
02:01 PM dean: apt-get works but my path seems messed up I cant access some programs like mkfs but if I go to /sbin and type ./mkfs it works
02:04 PM CaptHindsight: https://wiki.debian.org/EnvironmentVariables
02:05 PM dean: I guess work on path and see what comes up
02:07 PM roycroft: export PATH=$PATH:/sbin:/usr/sbin
02:08 PM roycroft: assuming you use a sane shell
02:11 PM dean: that worked but will it stay after I reboot
02:18 PM roycroft: put it in your .profile file in your home directory
02:18 PM dean: that worked but reboot and goes back how do i make permanent
02:18 PM roycroft: and it will be persistent
02:19 PM roycroft: whenver you log in your .profile script is executed
02:19 PM dean: k thanks
02:19 PM roycroft: see if there's a PATH directive in your .profile already
02:20 PM roycroft: if not, and you're using bash (a common shell for linux uses), it might be in a .bashrc file instead
02:20 PM TurBoss-shop: hello
02:20 PM roycroft: if you don't see it in either of those two files then it's just a system default path
02:20 PM roycroft: and you can add that line to your .profile
02:20 PM TurBoss-shop: could M0, M be remaped?
02:20 PM roycroft: log out and log back in to be sure it works
02:20 PM TurBoss-shop: seems no
02:28 PM dean: export PATH="$HOME/.cargo/bin:/sbin:/usr/sbin:$PATH"
02:29 PM roycroft: NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
02:29 PM roycroft: do not ever put your home directory or anything below it in our path
02:29 PM roycroft: your
02:29 PM dean: reboot and still no luck works when I enter at command line
02:29 PM roycroft: ESPECIALLY before the system path
02:29 PM roycroft: you don't need to reboot to test that, btw
02:30 PM roycroft: just log out and back in
02:30 PM roycroft: your enviroment is created at login and destroyed at logout
02:30 PM * roycroft heads off to lunch
02:44 PM JT-Shop: phipli: http://gnipsel.com/images/machines/cleaner/cleaner08.jpg
02:44 PM gloops: good old days - fred dibnah dodgy scaffolding https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWl3lyM8vUo
02:59 PM Simonious: I've imported a file into Fusion360, when I try to select for CAM, it is selecting slots within the overall face instead of outlines - if I draw a new outline on the DXF I can use that and then the slots work fine as well - how can I select a bunch of regions and generate the outline instead of having to trace?
03:07 PM XXCoder: gloops: old video, nowdays those bricks could be sold for more money. some people really like old bricks
03:08 PM gloops: XXCoder a small amount of old bricks are recycled, millions are crushed for hardcore though
03:10 PM dean: still having problems setting PATH
03:12 PM dean: do new users have /sbin access ?
03:13 PM phipli: JT-Shop, is that hopper big enough for Henry?
03:15 PM gloops: the thing with dibnah video - his assistant must have been working on the fiddle, or certainly cash in hand
03:16 PM gloops: doubtful there was any public or employee liability insurance
03:18 PM JT-Shop: yea he would fit with a little shove
03:20 PM gloops: steeplejacks actually still work like that today, the jobs are pretty much impractical if you follow standard health and safety, just do it and if goes wrong, the costs will be so high as to be irrelevant anyway
03:28 PM Simonious: I fingered it out
03:28 PM Simonious: select one area of the larger area you want
03:29 PM Simonious: then left click it and start adding adjacent regions, when done hit the little green plus
03:29 PM Simonious: and it joins them all up slick as snot
03:29 PM Simonious: very nice
03:30 PM FinboySlick: gloops: I love his accent.
03:31 PM gloops: well it is a northern accent FinboySlick, he is the wrong side of the pennines to have a proper accent though
03:33 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/gallery/2Xfa9
03:33 PM FinboySlick: gloops: Been watching 'Peaky Blinders' this week, I'm all in the thick northern accents.
03:51 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
03:52 PM Tom_L: yay! got my vise today
03:52 PM fragalot: have you inspected it yet?
03:52 PM Tom_L: still in the box
04:08 PM Deejay: gn8
04:13 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: reminds me of the "good" ideas in #reprap https://imgur.com/gallery/K6ZS1
04:14 PM enleth: roycroft: what's wrong with $HOME/bin/ or $HOME/.local/bin in $PATH?
04:15 PM roycroft: if someone exploits your account they can plant replacements for sytem utilities like ls in your home directory
04:16 PM XXCoder: and sudo
04:16 PM roycroft: it's a lot safer to only have your path point to directories that are owned by root, which is generally a harder account to exploit
04:16 PM XXCoder: kidding dunno if can fake sudo
04:16 PM roycroft: and as i alluded to above
04:16 PM roycroft: if you DO feel that you need to put directories in your home directory in your path, append them to the system directories, don't prepend them
04:17 PM roycroft: so that the system directories will be searched for standard utilities before your home directory
04:17 PM roycroft: i would recommend just not putting non-sytem directories in a path
04:18 PM XXCoder: roy I remember that old script su trick, it logs su login then calls real su
04:18 PM dean_: im still here
04:18 PM roycroft: yes, those kinds of tricks have been around for a long time
04:18 PM XXCoder: so yeah better make it search system first
04:20 PM XXCoder: laters
04:21 PM enleth: roycroft: if someone exploits my user account, they already have everything and will get the sudo password anyway
04:25 PM enleth: you don't have to use any decoy su/sudo replacements if you have write access to the user's pty
04:25 PM dean_: so those standard accounts dont have /sbin /usr/sbin in there PATH
04:26 PM dean_: just root ?
04:28 PM enleth: roycroft: besides, if the attacker knows which directories are in my PATH and can write binaries with execute bit set in there, they could append a PATH override to ~/.bashrc or whatever
04:29 PM enleth: in short - false security IMO
04:32 PM hazzy: Too bad it is way to big for me, but I thought some of you all might like this! https://www.ebay.com/itm/122952185376?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649
04:36 PM dean_: well I'm working on changing my 14x40 lathe to cnc I have been seeing kits and stuff out
04:38 PM Rab: Can double as a smoking jacket when combined with Bridgeport Ash Tray
04:38 PM Rab: item # 122952172044
04:38 PM Rab: So elite.
04:40 PM dean_: have any of you seen Chris Bathgate work https://www.chrisbathgate.com/
04:58 PM evilren: wtf $30
04:58 PM evilren: shit like that is cool because youre supposed to get it for $5 at goodwill
05:16 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, worst tolerance on the vise was the bed height at .0003"
05:17 PM Tom_L: the rest were right at .0001" on the inspection report
05:17 PM Tom_L: no pits that i can see
05:17 PM CaptHindsight: nope, not until it hits my mill :)
05:18 PM Tom_L: let's hope not but we all know what really happens
05:18 PM Tom_L: it's like buying a new car and getting the first door ding
05:19 PM CaptHindsight: i think I put a .01" nick in one side of the jaw when I got to greedy with the RPG once
05:20 PM Tom_L: clearance i think will be ok on the spindle
05:20 PM gregcnc: which vise?
05:20 PM Tom_L: 4" shars
05:20 PM CaptHindsight: .0003" on the bed height huh
05:20 PM Tom_L: they claim .0005
05:20 PM Tom_L: so it's within range
05:21 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
05:21 PM Tom_L: probably closer than anything i can hold on this mill
05:21 PM CaptHindsight: how much was it shipped?
05:21 PM Tom_L: something like 270ish
05:21 PM Tom_L: iirc shipping was 28
05:22 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.shars.com/4-440v-cnc-milling-machine-vise-0-0004-1 this one?
05:22 PM Tom_L: yes
05:24 PM CaptHindsight: i think pete just got a bad one or the wrong model
05:25 PM Tom_L: so far this looks good
05:33 PM CaptHindsight: now back to watching curling
06:12 PM hazzy: CaptHindsight: I am generally not into sports, but curling is pretty neat!
06:19 PM roycroft: every four years it's neat
06:20 PM roycroft: then folks forget about it for four years
06:20 PM roycroft: i've always enjoyed it myself
06:20 PM roycroft: and i'm probably one of few usians who has actually gone to a curling rink and watched it live
06:20 PM CaptHindsight: hazzy: watching most tams sports to me is like watching paint dry
06:20 PM CaptHindsight: golf included
06:21 PM roycroft: but
06:21 PM roycroft: my question is this:
06:21 PM roycroft: why on earth would one have to get juiced to be a curler?
06:21 PM roycroft: i understand that the sweeping can be rather rigorous
06:21 PM sync: maybe because you like to rub a thing really quick for some times?
06:21 PM roycroft: but only for a very short period of time
06:22 PM roycroft: i have never seen an out of breath curler
06:22 PM CaptHindsight: if you live 10 miles from the rink have to walk and carry all your own stones
06:22 PM roycroft: i'm talking about olympic athletes
06:22 PM roycroft: they have that stuff done for them
06:22 PM roycroft: those stones are pretty heavy though, i must say
06:22 PM roycroft: 20kg
06:23 PM roycroft: but even so
06:23 PM gregcnc: does a bobsledder have to be strong or need stamina?
06:23 PM roycroft: there is no need for performance enhancing drugs in curling
06:23 PM roycroft: i just can't see that it gives anyone any benefit
06:23 PM CaptHindsight: I'd rather watch flow sports in general, skiing, snowboarding, skateboarding, womens curling etc
06:24 PM roycroft: the captain needs strength to steer it
06:24 PM gregcnc: maybe they need them to practice 20hrs a day
06:24 PM roycroft: and both need strength to get it going
06:24 PM roycroft: but i would say that the benefits of performance enhancing drugs for a bobsleigh team are minimal
06:24 PM roycroft: but for curling, not even minimal
06:25 PM roycroft: curling is close to 100% skill
06:25 PM gregcnc: idk i only do 12oz curls
06:25 PM gregcnc: or even 1.5oz
06:25 PM CaptHindsight: bobsleigh has lots of crossover from sprinters
06:25 PM roycroft: it was a russian who ws disqualified from the bobsleigh too, wasn't it?
06:26 PM CaptHindsight: they do it just for fun
06:26 PM roycroft: i don't think russians juice to give them a performance edge
06:26 PM roycroft: i think they do it because it's their tradition to do it
06:26 PM roycroft: and it gives them something to whine about when they're kicked out of the olympics
06:26 PM CaptHindsight: what else yah going to do in Russia? Oppress ethnic minorities?
06:27 PM roycroft: um
06:27 PM roycroft: operating bot farms is a major growth industry there
06:27 PM CaptHindsight: inventing it first :)
06:28 PM roycroft: i should not have said that
06:28 PM CaptHindsight: hehe
06:28 PM roycroft: saying something bad about the russians will be cause for someone to call me a "liberal"
06:29 PM CaptHindsight: nah you're older, it's just nostalgic
06:29 PM roycroft: yeah
06:29 PM roycroft: i remember the good old days when the russians were the enemy and the democrats were the ones who did not like the fbi
06:31 PM roycroft: it's hard to tell what each side stands for anymore
06:31 PM roycroft: and it doesn't matter
06:31 PM roycroft: all that matters is that one join one side and hate the other
06:32 PM roycroft: i got a piece of 16ga sheet metal on my way home from work
06:32 PM roycroft: so i can start work on the control panel for my router table this weekend
06:32 PM * roycroft really wants that project to be done before too much longer
07:38 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3k7jb9/if-the-olympics-had-a-streaking-category-this-guy-would-win-gold-vgtrn
07:57 PM gregcnc: is anyone shipping things internationally from US by first class mail?
08:04 PM hazzy: CaptHindsight: Just like in the good old days :)
08:04 PM hazzy: https://youtu.be/XtzoUu7w-YM
08:12 PM CaptHindsight: only with some clothes to not offend the prudes
08:13 PM Tom_L: gregcnc not currently but i have
08:14 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: I sent some docs like that recently, but I always at least use Priority
08:14 PM CaptHindsight: for merchandise
08:14 PM gregcnc: they recently changed the policies and online it says the cheap first class rate can't have any value. not sure if they means no merchandise or you just won't be able to insure it
08:14 PM CaptHindsight: no insurance
08:14 PM gregcnc: I didn't get to the post office before they closed
08:14 PM CaptHindsight: open tomorrow until 4pm
08:15 PM CaptHindsight: last time I sent first class package it took 5 weeks to germany
08:15 PM CaptHindsight: never again
08:16 PM CaptHindsight: sent one to Finland 10 days ago, still not in Finland yet
08:16 PM Tom_L: i need a load meter on my spindle
08:17 PM CaptHindsight: 10oz of documents
08:17 PM gregcnc: yeah it's best to talk to someone there. it's 7USD vs 14USD and 14 is more than a single part so it matter to people.
08:18 PM Tom_L: i know the last one i sent they made me fill out the large form
08:18 PM Tom_L: i guess they're not using the small one anymore unless it's military
08:18 PM gregcnc: you can do that online
08:18 PM Tom_L: i suppose. i just always printed them
08:19 PM gregcnc: actually i'm not sure. you used to be able to print it on a 4x6 label but I think last time I had to shrink it to fit.
08:20 PM gregcnc: bar puller program worked today. that was fun
08:21 PM CaptHindsight: you can print the labels online
08:21 PM Tom_shop: back to cutting an alignment slot for my vise...
08:21 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: $7 is for an envelope 8oz or less
08:22 PM CaptHindsight: $14 is for a <16oz package
08:22 PM gregcnc: right, less than 3/4", my parts weigh <3g
08:23 PM CaptHindsight: $7 no insurance
08:23 PM CaptHindsight: $14 base price with value to $50 I think
08:23 PM Tom_shop: used to cost me $2-3
08:24 PM gregcnc: in the last 5 years international shipping has gone crazy
08:24 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
08:24 PM CaptHindsight: i used the flat rate boxes all the time
08:24 PM gregcnc: unless you ship from a developing country
08:24 PM CaptHindsight: 4Kg cans of chems fit just inside the medium box
08:26 PM gregcnc: oh reminds me for playing with anodize will inkjet dye work?, except black which may not because it's pigment?
08:31 PM CaptHindsight: inkjet dye is usually aqueous
08:31 PM CaptHindsight: so it will fade when you seal it
08:32 PM gregcnc: ah ok
08:32 PM CaptHindsight: why i sell the solvent dyes for inkjet and anodize
08:32 PM CaptHindsight: doesn't wash out
08:33 PM CaptHindsight: you can play with a sharpie on unsealed anodize
08:33 PM gregcnc: don't smell anythign remotely solvent like
08:33 PM CaptHindsight: they used to be black solvent dye
08:33 PM CaptHindsight: last time I tried one it sealed just fine
08:34 PM CaptHindsight: shapie used to be nigrosine
08:35 PM CaptHindsight: just be careful where you say that
08:35 PM gregcnc: had to look it up
08:50 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/MATSUURA-MC-760VX-CNC-VERTICAL-MILL-BT40-CT40-SPINDLE-CARTRIDGE-UNIT/152912366727 $1000 for Priority shipping....
08:51 PM CaptHindsight: how much for its own seat on an sirline? :)
08:51 PM CaptHindsight: airline
08:54 PM jesseg: haha this spindle cartridge calls up American Airlines and says "Yeah I want a first class ticket to Washington" (or wherever you are) lol
08:54 PM CaptHindsight: lotsa iron for $3k https://www.ebay.com/itm/MATSUURA-MILLING-MACHINE-MC-760V2/122814616648
08:56 PM CaptHindsight: bigger brohter https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matsuura-MC-1000-VX-vertical-milling-center-55-table/201871869576
09:15 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/ATC-Spindle-Motor-4-Bearings-8KW-Air-Cooled-CNC-Engraving-Router-Milling-Grind/191852767426
09:15 PM CaptHindsight: is this the expected life of the bearings and spindle?
09:16 PM CaptHindsight: Repair time bearing(half year),spindle(one year)
09:16 PM CaptHindsight: or is that the warranty period?
09:16 PM jesseg: hey guys is source forge down? https://sourceforge.net/
09:17 PM CaptHindsight: 502 Bad Gateway
09:17 PM jesseg: LOL so it's not just me.
09:17 PM jesseg: ok I guess I just wait then.
09:20 PM roycroft: relax
09:20 PM roycroft: don't worry
09:20 PM roycroft: make a part
09:20 PM jesseg: lol :D
09:24 PM CaptHindsight: jesseg: we were using lexmark inkjet cartridges to print silver ink on teslin for circuits
09:24 PM jesseg: CaptHindsight, cooooool!
09:25 PM CaptHindsight: teslin is a low cost synthetic paper
09:25 PM CaptHindsight: you could easily laser drill vias and print in the holes
09:26 PM jesseg: CaptHindsight, is the silver ink the regular silver acetate+Ammonia+Formic Acid?
09:27 PM CaptHindsight: jesseg: it's starts like that but then you have to make it into a suitable ink to match the printheads
09:27 PM jesseg: CaptHindsight, I have some formic acid on the way from ebay to see if that method works for hole activation
09:27 PM jesseg: oh right, too much a plain liquid
09:27 PM jesseg: I actually saved some old Epson printers because they have ultrasonic instead of heat-based print heads
09:28 PM roycroft: why order it off ebay?
09:28 PM CaptHindsight: viscosity, surface tension, dry time etc
09:28 PM roycroft: just rub some ants into your part
09:28 PM jesseg: although since this is water based, it might work in a resistive print head
09:28 PM CaptHindsight: we user solvent in TIJ as well as piezo
09:28 PM CaptHindsight: but it's not that simple
09:29 PM CaptHindsight: Epson printheads clog by just looking at them wrong
09:29 PM jesseg: roycroft, OK so since you brought it up, last summer I actually put a beaker down in an ant hill and caught about 500 ants. I took them home, squeezed the juice out, but didn't have the equipment to distill it and it all evaporated/leaked out of the test tube before my lab glass from China arrived. And now it's winter, and there's no ants to be seen. so yes, I ordered it from Ebay.
09:30 PM CaptHindsight: bees are another good source
09:30 PM jesseg: CaptHindsight, fascinating!! How do epson print heads differ from lexmark? Just lexmark has larger passage ways?
09:30 PM CaptHindsight: lexmark were TIJ
09:30 PM CaptHindsight: Epson are piezo
09:30 PM jesseg: CaptHindsight, you mean honey bees? or yellow-jackets?
09:30 PM jesseg: Ahhh.. I never heard of TIJ, I only knew of the Piezo and the resistive heating type
09:30 PM CaptHindsight: if the sting hurts you've found a winner
09:31 PM CaptHindsight: tij = thermal inkjet
09:32 PM jesseg: CaptHindsight, oh you mean like HP ?
09:33 PM CaptHindsight: HP makes TIJ as well, as does Canon and a few others
09:33 PM jesseg: CaptHindsight, hmmm, bee stings seem to generally be more complex chemicals... and some of them are even alkali
09:34 PM jesseg: CaptHindsight, so how many kinds are there that are prevalent in home use? just TIJ and Piezo?
09:34 PM jesseg: or is there a third kind
09:35 PM CaptHindsight: a few other like continuous inkjet
09:35 PM jesseg: What pumps those?
09:36 PM jesseg: I guess I had thought the epson type was special because I wanted to print hot wax onto the PCB as etch resist..
09:36 PM jesseg: and I didn't figure that wax would work in a thermal print head
09:36 PM CaptHindsight: get an older Xerox for hot wax
09:36 PM CaptHindsight: Epson doesn't have a heater
09:37 PM jesseg: well, I'd have to make my own heater... but does a Xerox have its own heater?
09:37 PM CaptHindsight: i think your understanding of these heads is a bit too simple
09:37 PM jesseg: well that could be, all I understand is what's printed on internet
09:37 PM CaptHindsight: they aren't any old fluid squirters
09:38 PM CaptHindsight: the fluids are matched to head design
09:38 PM jesseg: lol I mean something moves the fluid. For TIJ a little resister gets hot fast and forms a steam bubble which shoots the fluid
09:38 PM CaptHindsight: even the waveforms that drive them
09:38 PM jesseg: in a piezo, an electromechanical actuator pumps the fluid
09:38 PM jesseg: and I have no idea how the continuous inkjet works, never heard of it
09:39 PM jesseg: but yeah my understanding is simple :D
09:39 PM jesseg: willing to learn though :D
09:39 PM CaptHindsight: like CNC, they just aren't any old metal cutters
09:40 PM jesseg: Granted, the term "pump" may invoke to some people's minds a mechanism with a checkvalve, however with correct physical design and understanding of fluid/gas dynamics, pumps can be made without traditional moving parts check valves.
09:41 PM jesseg: like the pulse jet engine :P
09:42 PM jesseg: the kind with no check valves tha tis
09:44 PM jesseg: CaptHindsight, so these PCBs that you print with inkjet printers and silver ink, how durable are they? Can you solder down components like regular? or does the silver tend to lift off the substrate?
09:45 PM jesseg: CaptHindsight, oh, and if there's anything you can tell me or documents you can refer me to which advances my simplistic understanding of inkjet head technology I would be most grateful if you might be so kind :D
09:45 PM hazzy: Whoa, am I seeing things or does sourceforge have a new look(tm)?
09:46 PM jesseg: hazzy, well, few minutes ago it was just giving some gateway error. Now it's back, but I frankly don't know what it used to look like. I haven't been there in so long.
09:47 PM hazzy: jesseg: same hear a rarely use it, but the pycam page looks different than I remember: https://sourceforge.net/projects/pycam/
09:47 PM hazzy: maybe just me
09:49 PM CaptHindsight: jesseg: use the google
09:49 PM jesseg: CaptHindsight, :D I have, and that's what lead to my simplistic understanding :D
09:49 PM CaptHindsight: spend a few more months reading
09:50 PM jesseg: lol K
09:51 PM jesseg: although at this point, I've kind of moved beyond inkjet ideas now that I have a CNC engraver that can route and drill, using industry standard copper PCB blanks.. And I'm planning to also make an attachment for a UV laser head so I can photoplot on sensitized PCB or put on solder resist or even do silkscreen
09:54 PM jesseg: Something nice about having milling/drilling all on the same machine in the same holder
09:54 PM CaptHindsight: that is far more DIY for the hobbyist
09:55 PM jesseg: I can mill top, bottom, and drill and everything is automatically lined up
09:55 PM CaptHindsight: vias can be conductive epoxy
09:55 PM jesseg: absolutely, I'm a hobbiest :D If I were to need 1000 boards I'd just send out to a board house
09:55 PM jesseg: and in fact have used seeed studio a few times and been quite pleased for the price :P
09:55 PM CaptHindsight: there were some similar proto systems that used small screw in vias
09:56 PM jesseg: lol how cute
10:01 PM jesseg: lol this old electric cooking hotplate uses the difference in coefficient of thermal expansion between aluminum and corningware glass across its whole width to measure temperature for the thermostat.. The cooktop is corning ware and an aluminum square rod runs along it, and as its length changes it pushes on the contact LOL
10:05 PM jesseg: CaptHindsight, oh, I bet teslin is what they make those "Write in the rain notebooks" out of
10:05 PM jesseg: brb
10:08 PM jesseg: CaptHindsight, so can teslin handle the temperatures of baking the silver ink? And is the silver bonded strong enough to allow regular soldernig down of components? or do you plate something more on top of it for more strength?
10:23 PM CaptHindsight: no bake the silver ink
10:24 PM CaptHindsight: with TIJ
10:25 PM CaptHindsight: silver nano
10:26 PM jesseg: Is it silver nano particles when printed, or does it print clear then precip?
10:34 PM CaptHindsight: no precipitation
10:34 PM CaptHindsight: all that is before it is ink
10:37 PM jesseg: Oh ok. The silver acetate+ammonia+formic acid is a completely clear liquid till it dries
10:37 PM CaptHindsight: this sin't for any high current applications
10:37 PM jesseg: oh gotcha
10:37 PM CaptHindsight: most hobby applications are not
10:37 PM jesseg: well what do you mean like high current...? a 20mA LED, etc?
10:38 PM jesseg: But as a hobby machinist I'm into a bit higher currents making motor controllers and I want to get into EDM also
10:44 PM jesseg: Also with digital logic and even 50Mhz micros, you kind of want solid ground planes, even though it's not high average current, you don't want resistance
10:45 PM Cromaglious_: Just ordered a 3 jaw chuck for my sheldon
10:45 PM jesseg: cooool
10:46 PM jesseg: how much did that cost?
10:46 PM Cromaglious_: $232
10:46 PM jesseg: ahh... bit-o-dough
10:46 PM Cromaglious_: Shars 6" 3jaw + 1-3/4 7 tpi raw back plate
10:48 PM jesseg: CaptHindsight, so your ink is almost like a printable version of those conductive ink silver pens for repairing PCBs?
10:49 PM CaptHindsight: yes the silver TIJ version
10:50 PM jesseg: cool
10:50 PM Cromaglious_: also spent $500 at harbor fright today as well... sockets, tap and die, and other stuff I've needed
10:52 PM roycroft: i primarily buy chip brushes and nitrile gloves at hf any more
10:53 PM Cromaglious_: 3 boxes of nitrile 7mil gloves today
10:53 PM roycroft: i used to buy more stuff from them, but i have almost all the cheap tools and tooling that i need
10:53 PM roycroft: i replace it with higher quality stuff
10:53 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Vise_alignment_slot.jpg
10:53 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Vise1.jpg
10:53 PM roycroft: sometimes being old is advantageous
10:53 PM Tom_L: :)
10:54 PM roycroft: i've had decades to accumulate the cheap stuff
10:54 PM roycroft: nice, tom_l
10:54 PM roycroft: how accurate is that?
10:54 PM Tom_L: the vise?
10:55 PM roycroft: the alignment
10:55 PM Tom_L: oh i gotta get some bolts tomorrow
10:55 PM Tom_L: but should be pretty darn accurate
10:55 PM Tom_L: i'll run a dial across it then
10:56 PM roycroft: so maybe not dead nuts accurate, but less than a minute to bump into alignment accurate?
10:56 PM Tom_L: it should be pretty close, i cut it in place
10:56 PM roycroft: cool
10:56 PM Cromaglious_: wire wheel, some cut off wheels, helping hands
10:56 PM Tom_L: and the tabs fit pretty darn tight
10:57 PM Tom_L: gonna cut some more plastic to fit around it i think
10:57 PM roycroft: i bought a 7" grinder at hf a week or so ago
10:57 PM roycroft: it was on sale, and i had a 20% off coupon
10:58 PM Tom_L: did you ever get to use it?
10:58 PM roycroft: but it vibrated so much my elbow got sore immediately
10:58 PM roycroft: i took it back and got another
10:58 PM roycroft: and it was exactly the same
10:58 PM Tom_L: i got an angle drill from them once and used it 1/2 time before it broke
10:58 PM roycroft: so now they own it again
10:58 PM roycroft: i never used it
10:58 PM roycroft: the closet i came was to put a grinding disc on it and spinning it up
10:58 PM roycroft: closest
11:00 PM roycroft: otoh i have a bunch of their 4-1/2" grinders
11:00 PM roycroft: and they're not too bad
11:00 PM roycroft: and i usually get them for around $11 on sale
11:01 PM roycroft: maybe they are just as sloppily made as the 7", but because they're so much smaller and less powerful they don't bother me too much
11:06 PM Cromaglious_: I gave up on their 41/2" grinders.. I only buy Milwaukee 4 1/2" grinders now\