#linuxcnc Logs
Feb 20 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:06 AM Crom: morning..
12:09 AM Crom: tcl issues on compiling 2.7 on mint...
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: morning from frozen Germany
01:11 AM jesseg: Morning IchGucksLive! How goes?
01:11 AM IchGucksLive: ok ;-)
01:31 AM Deejay: moin
01:32 AM jesseg: Mornin'!
01:37 AM Deejay: yay
01:41 AM gloops: well, no progress for me for a while, will get wiring done this weekend
01:44 AM jesseg: Wiring will be a significant thing to accomplish
01:45 AM gloops: not so bad when not working, progress is one day to the next, when working 5 days its one week to the next
01:47 AM jesseg: yeah I know the feeling
01:48 AM gloops: still its all more screw and motor £s for the next one lol
01:48 AM jesseg: oh, the 5 days of work is counting towards better parts for the next one?
01:49 AM gloops: yeah, pity i didnt get this one finished first though
01:50 AM gloops: - had a quiet spell after xmas i was hoping to get this machine finished in that period, ended up losing days and days to stupid things, slipping pulleys etc
01:50 AM gloops: made 3 different sets of pulley inserts/clamps
01:53 AM gloops: i think ive learned now if you have plans to build a machine you need to estimate in terms of months/years not weeks
02:00 AM jesseg: yeah that's the way it is
02:00 AM jesseg: months, years, or maybe a lifetime in my case:P
02:00 AM jesseg: I started a 3D printer couple years ago.
02:00 AM jesseg: :P
02:01 AM gloops: lol thats a long time
02:03 AM gloops: my problem was that i had real expectations - this will be finished in a couple of weeks, ok this will definitely be finished next week - no next week...just getting disappointed every time
04:38 AM Deejay: re
04:44 AM jthornton: morning
04:51 AM Deejay: heya
05:27 AM Tom_L: 24°F and ice storm here
05:43 AM jthornton: 66°F and overcast
06:51 AM Alkabal_: hi all
06:51 AM Deejay: utf8 fail still persistent
06:51 AM Alkabal_: is there a way for bypass limit switch temporary ?
06:52 AM Deejay: yes, take a piece of wire
06:52 AM Deejay: but check if the switch is opening or closing
06:52 AM Alkabal_: only possible to wire a push for simulate not active limit
06:53 AM Alkabal_: i have NC
06:53 AM Alkabal_: if after error axis stay on the switch i can't remove from switch (full cnc without vernier)
06:54 AM Deejay: hmm, dunno if there is a software solution
06:54 AM Alkabal_: special starting command is the best if possible
06:54 AM * Deejay only has reference switches, no limit switches
06:55 AM Alkabal_: finally i think only does another config file without force homing
07:01 AM Loetmichel: Deejay: same here
07:02 AM Loetmichel: softlimits are good enough if you once try how much you can move without running into hard blocks
07:22 AM Alkabal_: thanks i have also configured softlimit
07:23 AM Alkabal_: and make a overridelimit config that i canstart only if limit switch stay locked after error
07:26 AM IchGucksLive: hi all from sunny cold germany
07:26 AM IchGucksLive: Alkabal_: why not using 3 switches
07:27 AM IchGucksLive: in a Row you can go only with one port
07:27 AM Alkabal_: i have both home switch configured and soft limit
07:27 AM IchGucksLive: Alkabal_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zvrqgxgt8c
07:28 AM IchGucksLive: Alkabal_: soft limits are always on
07:28 AM IchGucksLive: they come automaticily on travel plate
07:29 AM IchGucksLive: Alkabal_: HOMEOFFSET is the Value of the Switch
07:29 AM Alkabal_: yes yes
07:29 AM IchGucksLive: HOME ise not Zero in all axis
07:29 AM Alkabal_: i think have understand that
07:29 AM IchGucksLive: if the switch is triggerd it will end up at HOME location
07:30 AM Alkabal_: and already apply a offset
07:30 AM gregcnc_: alkabal what is the actual problem you are having?
07:30 AM Alkabal_: the problem is only if limit switch is trigered after a following error
07:31 AM Alkabal_: i can't move anymore because soft is locked by the limit switch
07:31 AM IchGucksLive: folowing error accors only if you are way off the limit
07:31 AM gregcnc_: following error is unrelated
07:31 AM Alkabal_: and i can't move the axis manually
07:31 AM gregcnc_: which GUI?
07:32 AM gregcnc_: if you have follow error that's automatic E-stop
07:32 AM gregcnc_: correct follow error
07:34 AM IchGucksLive: im off greg
11:52 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:53 AM IchGucksLive: whow 5hr no post
12:10 PM JT-Shop: gotta love customers that think you need to solve all their problems just because they spent $100 at your store
12:10 PM IchGucksLive: hi Dave_Elec
12:11 PM gloops: free lifetime service and tuition package thrown in JT-Shop lol
12:11 PM JT-Shop: aye
12:12 PM IchGucksLive: Dave_Elec: how is the weather in Adis Abeba
12:12 PM Dave_Elec: IchGucksLive: Hi
12:12 PM lunadabay: hi
12:12 PM IchGucksLive: Ethiopia is the poorest country
12:12 PM IchGucksLive: hi lunadabay
12:12 PM Loetmichel: JT-Shop: IF they even spend $100
12:13 PM gloops: and the happiest Ichs, so they say
12:13 PM Loetmichel: usually those types buy something much cheaper or insist that you do service so that "you have me as a customer in the future"
12:14 PM lunadabay: is G64 only active when running a program? I assume it doesn't effect jogging, right? I would also assume it doesn't show as following error, right?
12:14 PM IchGucksLive: lunadabay: if you need help just ask alotso f people from CA here
12:14 PM IchGucksLive: YES
12:15 PM IchGucksLive: lunadabay: doesent make sence to jog on G64
12:16 PM Dave_Elec: IchGucksLive: It's dark here right now.. not the poorest but yeah a poor on
12:16 PM Dave_Elec: one
12:17 PM IchGucksLive: Dave_Elec: im in germany at the same Zone as you
12:17 PM lunadabay: log story short, we bought a new cnc and when i went out to look at it, the following error was way off. they replaced the servos since they were too small, and is still a little off. they're trying to say that nobody ever asked to see the following error before, and i'm being too picky. they are also saying that the reason why it's off is because they are using something called VFF (velocity feed forward), which seems like
12:17 PM lunadabay: it's their version of G64
12:18 PM gregcnc_: their who?
12:18 PM lunadabay: i ran a program on my mill with linuxcnc and my following error didn't increase with g64 active
12:19 PM gregcnc_: that would depend what G64 is set to and the program
12:19 PM lunadabay: i just did G64, i didn't set a tolerance
12:20 PM gregcnc_: program path is a big factor. how are you measuring follow error?
12:21 PM gregcnc_: that is; deviation from programmed path
12:21 PM skunkworks: in linuxcnc - path following and following error are 2 different things.
12:21 PM lunadabay: i would have assumed the machine would set a following error alarm if following error was effected by g64... i assumed the traj still knew where it was supposed to be even if it was smoothing the corners
12:21 PM JT-Shop: G64 - without P means to keep the best speed possible, no matter how far away from the programmed point you end up.
12:21 PM lunadabay: right, which is what i think their VFF is
12:22 PM gregcnc_: G64 essentially creates a new path so you will not see following error
12:22 PM lunadabay: gregcnc, on my machine i just watch it on halscope
12:22 PM gregcnc_: who has this VFF?
12:22 PM gregcnc_: servos?
12:22 PM lunadabay: they have a scope in their controler as well. (osai open)
12:22 PM lunadabay: yes, servos. it's a 4x8' router
12:23 PM gregcnc_: VFF is servo tuning related
12:23 PM gregcnc_: has nothing to do with path blending unless they are doing something different
12:23 PM gregcnc_: and mixing terms
12:24 PM lunadabay: ok i wasn't sure exactly what it was
12:25 PM lunadabay: this is what they said:
12:26 PM lunadabay: With VFF active the trace you are seeing is absolutely normal, the ‘Following Error’ (FE) increases rapidly as the axis goes from constant velocity (0mm/min at the beginning of the profile) into acceleration and will start to reduce rapidly as the axis once again approaches constant velocity (38,100mm/min). Once the axis is at constant velocity the following error will drop close to zero, in this case, the slower the
12:26 PM lunadabay: constant velocity the lower the FE, the higher the constant velocity, the higher the FE. If VFF was not active, the FE would continue to increase until the axis reached its final velocity and would remain high until the axis came to a stop
12:26 PM gregcnc_: they aren't wrong
12:26 PM lunadabay: For those that are interest, FE without VFF being active is calculated by dividing feed in metres per min by the system gain(KV), typically 1. 38.1m/min divided by 1 is 38.1mm FE at constant velocity.
12:26 PM lunadabay:
12:26 PM lunadabay: The FE is not directly related to machine error, but is a measure of velocity, and 38.1mm FE from the above calculation does not mean your part will be off by 38.1 mm but it does have an effect on how the machine navigates radii and corners. Smaller numbers are better and VFF is used to greatly increase the dynamics of the machine without putting undue stress on the mechanics. As you can see from the trace, the FE is
12:26 PM lunadabay: approximately 0.036mm (a very small number and substantially less than 38.1mm theoretical value without VFF ) during constant velocity and is used by the CNC to calculate when and where the axes must decelerate into the next phase of motion. This number seems reasonable to me.
12:27 PM IchGucksLive: lunadabay: is it a SERVo or Stepper mashine
12:27 PM lunadabay: servo
12:27 PM IchGucksLive: the tactionara planer reads 12 line ahead on G64
12:27 PM gregcnc_: but are the parts within tolerance or not?
12:28 PM IchGucksLive: on G61 its only 3 that are involved
12:29 PM IchGucksLive: lunadabay: G64 is oly setup for 3D contuing and 4th Axis miling around axis
12:29 PM lunadabay: the machine was visibly cutting parts that were off before they replaced the servos. the corners were terrible. i have not seen the cuts since they replaced them, but they claim it is better
12:29 PM IchGucksLive: for REAL Parts it is recomended to use G61
12:29 PM gregcnc_: what control are they using?
12:29 PM lunadabay: osai open
12:30 PM lunadabay: a-664
12:30 PM IchGucksLive: lunadabay: do you got a G-code for checking on Sim
12:31 PM lunadabay: i dont know what sim is. this isn't a linux machine
12:31 PM lunadabay: the email that i copy and pasted above was from Osai, not from the machine builder
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: so change G64 to G61
12:32 PM gregcnc_: ichs it's not linuxcnc
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: Dosent matter
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: as Fanuc 11 is ths Standard
12:33 PM lunadabay: they have been trying to tune the machine since early december, and they already replaced the servos because they don't know what they're doing IMO. I'm trying to find a way to quantify the accuracy of the machine before i fly out there to see it
12:34 PM IchGucksLive: gregcnc_: this is a mashinekit clone
12:34 PM lunadabay: i know following error wont track mechanical issues, but i was at least hoping it could help me determine if the machine is actually tuned
12:36 PM lunadabay: i was going to post up for advice on practical machinist, but i figured you guys were smarter lol
12:36 PM gregcnc_: well it's G29 in their book vs G61
12:36 PM lunadabay: yea they don't use G64
12:37 PM gregcnc_: they do have their own form of blending it seems but tolerance is not programmable like Linuxcnc
12:38 PM gregcnc_: http://www.osaicnc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/OPENcontrol_LOW.pdf
12:38 PM IchGucksLive: Dave_Elec: if you got a Question ask
12:39 PM gregcnc_: seems like running on G27 would give the best tolerance
12:39 PM lunadabay: they do have a programmable tolerance, it's called F0, F1, F2, etc... i haven't gotten that far into it yet. right now i'm just trying to figure out how to see how screwed up their tuning is on the scope
12:39 PM Dave_Elec: IchGucksLive: i'm not working on a CNC right now but i plan on building one soon so no questions for today.. just getting ready :P
12:40 PM gregcnc_: are you building their machine?
12:41 PM IchGucksLive: Dave_Elec: THIS is my Youtube chanel it may give you a start https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmwhCL92ZQRSVqFe3jGwJSQ/videos
12:41 PM lunadabay: gregcnc_, me? no, we bought the machine
12:41 PM lunadabay: it's a brand new machine that we ordered. we went to see it and the cuts were horrible
12:42 PM IchGucksLive: gregcnc_: what do you think point-to-point is
12:42 PM Dave_Elec: IchGucksLive: thanks! i will let you know when i start it. I will need a lot of help.
12:42 PM gregcnc_: exact spot mode i would think
12:42 PM lunadabay: g61
12:43 PM IchGucksLive: and then Comared G26
12:43 PM IchGucksLive: i woudt say it is JOG Programm
12:43 PM IchGucksLive: G29
12:43 PM gregcnc_: if the builder and contorl maker have no idea what is going on here I'd walk away fromt he deal
12:44 PM lunadabay: we'd lose a $40k deposit
12:44 PM lunadabay: or we'd spend it on lawyers
12:44 PM lunadabay: i'd like to, trust me
12:45 PM gregcnc_: get full docs from the control manufacturer, figure it out
12:45 PM gregcnc_: but if the builder can't supply the machine as spec wouldn't it void the contract?
12:45 PM lunadabay: can't get blood from a stone lol
12:46 PM IchGucksLive: gregcnc_: i checkt its the same Gcoding as OKI got
12:46 PM IchGucksLive: the Multi Turret lathe maker
12:46 PM lunadabay: what do you think is an acceptable following error?
12:46 PM gregcnc_: that depends on where in the path it is
12:47 PM lunadabay: on my mill i have the max error limit set to .001"
12:47 PM IchGucksLive: lunadabay: good to go
12:48 PM lunadabay: it's usually around .0002-.0005" when jogging at full velocity and changing directions
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: if not a Denthal mill
12:48 PM lunadabay: they are about .005" in x and .017" in y
12:49 PM IchGucksLive: hi fragalot
12:49 PM fragalot: hey IchGucksLive
12:49 PM gregcnc_: at cutting speeds? or high speed jog?
12:49 PM lunadabay: high jog
12:49 PM gregcnc_: i don't think jog matters?
12:50 PM gregcnc_: how fast is jog compared to cutting?
12:50 PM lunadabay: well, actually a programmed path at jog speed
12:50 PM IchGucksLive: but they shout not be that highh on jog also
12:50 PM gregcnc_: right error will be smaller as speed decreases
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: lunadabay: did you check this on MDI run
12:51 PM lunadabay: they did it in a program, i'm sure
12:51 PM lunadabay: max speed is 1500ipm, we will probably cut at a bax of 800-1000ipm
12:51 PM lunadabay: max*
12:52 PM IchGucksLive: the Table settings of mashine speed can be adjusted to minimise Jogspeed
12:52 PM gregcnc_: why
12:52 PM gregcnc_: you want to jog as fast as possible in production
12:52 PM gregcnc_: error doesn't matter
12:52 PM fragalot: you want to rapid as fast as possible
12:53 PM gregcnc_: err jog--> rapid
12:53 PM IchGucksLive: im off workday tomorrow goine build 2 more 4axis
12:53 PM IchGucksLive: bye
12:54 PM lunadabay: i figured it was good to have your following error low at all speeds so that you get an alarm if there's an actual issue, like crashing the machine
12:54 PM gregcnc_: dont' crash it
12:54 PM lunadabay: lol
12:54 PM gregcnc_: seriously they aren't built to crash
12:55 PM lunadabay: i'm not running it. if i were, i'd be less worried about it
12:56 PM gregcnc_: it sounds to me like either the servos are undersize or poorly tuned
12:57 PM lunadabay: they changed the servos once already, but they could still be small. and i'm guessing you're right on poorly tuned
12:57 PM gregcnc_: it's possible that the control is configured incorrectly and can't get maximum performance from the servos
12:59 PM lunadabay: yep
01:00 PM lunadabay: i'm just trying to quanitify how far off it is from being tuned properly, and what is actually a reasonable amount
01:01 PM gregcnc_: i'm not sure what is typical for commercial routers
01:02 PM lunadabay: me neither. never even ran one before, i'm a metal guy
01:05 PM gloops: c7 screws are considered adequate for most router applications, .05mm
01:05 PM gregcnc_: ?
01:05 PM gloops: c7 ballscrews - .05
01:06 PM gregcnc_: .05mm of what
01:06 PM gloops: tolerances
01:07 PM gregcnc_: 50um/300mm of travel
01:07 PM gloops: and throw on other mechanical error, remember a lot of large format routers use r&p
01:10 PM lunadabay: this is rack and pinion
01:10 PM gloops: .03 is a big ask then?
01:10 PM gregcnc_: follow error is in addition to mechanical error
01:11 PM gloops: yes im not commenting on the following error, i dont know anything about servos, merely speculating on acceptable tolerances for routers
01:11 PM gregcnc_: for mechanics
01:13 PM gregcnc_: i think the question here is if the machine can be run in a mode that won't cut to corners off. This will slow the axes at directional changes, the question then becomes how much does it slow down?
01:13 PM gloops: 'the corners are crap' crap because of following error?
01:13 PM fragalot: gloops: did anything of economic significance happen in the UK today?
01:14 PM fragalot: because the exchange rate seems to have changed by 6 cents since 7am
01:14 PM lunadabay: gloops: it was overshooting corners
01:14 PM gloops: fragalot no idea, the UK could be under invasion from giant dung beetles for all i know
01:14 PM fragalot: haha
01:14 PM lunadabay: they seemed to have tuned most of it out
01:15 PM gloops: exchange rates are like the climate - never static
01:15 PM gloops: so how does a servo at speed work when cutting, re braking?
01:15 PM fragalot: gloops: reverse current
01:16 PM fragalot: all a servo can do is push one way, or push the other way, and change the force at which it pushes
01:16 PM gloops: so this is the source of the following error?
01:16 PM gloops: yes i understand that fragalot
01:16 PM fragalot: yes
01:16 PM gregcnc_: the difference between commanded positiona nd real position
01:17 PM gregcnc_: it takes time for the servo to move
01:17 PM gloops: and stop
01:17 PM fragalot: yes.
01:18 PM gloops: g61 should command an exact stop
01:19 PM gregcnc_: sure
01:20 PM gregcnc_: but you still have follow error. again follow error and path blending (rounding corners) are not related
01:20 PM fragalot: there is no way around follow error; regardless of speed or g-codes used
01:20 PM gregcnc_: i shoud say not directly related
01:21 PM fragalot: well, lower speeds of course have lower absolute fault
01:21 PM fragalot: but it's still going to be there
01:21 PM enleth: gloops: I just imagined a bunch of distinguished british gentlemen calmly letting the giant dung beetles pass the Westminster bridge, roll up the houses or pariliament into a ball and abscond into the sunset
01:21 PM gregcnc_: right in the end the machine has to make in tolerance parts
01:22 PM gloops: enleth it wouldnt be something such gentlemen would get ruffled about
01:31 PM gloops: FTSE 100 (^FTSE)
01:31 PM gloops: FTSE - FTSE Delayed price. Currency in GBP
01:31 PM gloops: Add to watchlist
01:31 PM gloops: 7,246.77-0.89 (-0.01%)
01:31 PM gloops: markets dead calm
01:33 PM SpeedEvil: I see a fin!
01:34 PM * fragalot spears it
01:34 PM gloops: STERLING is up by 0.56 per cent today as it rises following a turbulent time for the currency last week.
01:34 PM gloops: On February 20 the UK currency had risen against the Euro trading at 1.1346.
01:35 PM fragalot: yeah I just booked a ferry today & noticed the exchange rate
01:39 PM gloops: well its not in the interests of the UK to have strong currency - better for it to drop some more
01:39 PM Loetmichel: gloops: i dont see how that is an acomplishment.
01:40 PM fragalot: Agreed, it should absolutely tank soon.. I need some things from axminster.
01:40 PM gloops: Loetmichel good for exports
01:40 PM Loetmichel: i have seen times when the pound sterling was around 20DM
01:40 PM Loetmichel: ... which is about 10 eur
01:40 PM gloops: the euro has been flatlining for years, works well for germany
01:41 PM fragalot: euro has risen nearly 20% compared to the USD this year
01:42 PM fragalot: still nowhere near what it used to be though
01:42 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: you meant: the us$ has lost 20% compared to the euro?
01:42 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: same thing :D
01:42 PM Loetmichel: nope
01:42 PM fragalot: it is the same thing when adding the magic word "compared to"
01:42 PM Loetmichel: compare eur and $ to a few other currencys and you know what i meant
01:42 PM fragalot: I know exactly what you mean
01:43 PM fragalot: that's why I said "compared to"
01:43 PM Loetmichel: Its usually the more stable currency that something is "compared to"
01:43 PM Loetmichel: thats what i meant
01:43 PM gloops: china has had artifically suppressed currency for years, works for them, although may be their undoing
01:45 PM XXCoder: that and their supppppper big housing bubbloe
01:45 PM XXCoder: they have entire cities ready for people but empty
01:52 PM gloops: its happened the same with all economies that embark on rapid industrialisation, big boom, rapid growth - there are advantages during this phase that mature economies cannot compete with
01:52 PM gloops: inevitably one day the new economy has to sit and play at the big table
01:52 PM gloops: different game altogether
01:53 PM pink_vampire: hi
01:53 PM gloops: hello
01:53 PM pink_vampire: how aare you!
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: money mostly flows into China, not out
01:54 PM gloops: mighty fine thanks pink_vampire, how are you?
01:54 PM pink_vampire: making plastic and MDF chips
01:55 PM gloops: CaptHindsight why wouldnt it? investing in a place with cheap labour, no regulations, cheap resources, you cant go wrong
01:55 PM CaptHindsight: it's like a bunch of money toilets connected to one big cesspool, that only has small trickles out
01:57 PM gloops: the time will come though when the west says - actually you need to start playing by the rules we have to play by
01:57 PM gloops: chinese labour will become organised, obviously with help from the west
01:58 PM gloops: other emerging economies will appear
01:58 PM XXCoder: pink_vampire: hey
01:58 PM XXCoder: what ya making?
01:59 PM SpeedEvil: Yeah - imagine if chinese companies had to for example, treat pregnant women properly.
02:00 PM fragalot: hi pink_vampire
02:01 PM gloops: you mean not lock them into factories for 3 month shifts SpeedEvil?
02:01 PM miss0r: I'm making buisness cards for my new company right now... I'm thinking writing CEO on there seems a bit pretentious, as I am the only person there. What should I put on there?
02:02 PM fragalot: gloops: max 9 months, after which you need to let them out briefly so it's not your problem
02:02 PM SpeedEvil: It was a comment that their regulations are generally much better than those in the USA
02:02 PM gregcnc: HMFIC
02:02 PM gloops: depends what image you want to project miss0r
02:02 PM fragalot: miss0r: here's an idea; leave the job title blank
02:02 PM miss0r: gregcnc: That 'does' give it a bit of a comic twist
02:02 PM miss0r: fragalot: Yeah...
02:03 PM miss0r: I'll do that :)
02:03 PM fragalot: :-)
02:03 PM fragalot: i have a pile of 11000 business cards with the wrong title on it
02:03 PM gloops: high faluting titles and letters are probably more appropriate for financial services or larger engineering concerns
02:03 PM miss0r: lol
02:03 PM fragalot: (order entry messed up)
02:03 PM CaptHindsight: in China factory workers are not allowed to work when it's 40C or higher
02:03 PM gregcnc: In the building
02:04 PM CaptHindsight: so it's never officially over 40C in China
02:04 PM gloops: youre not allowed to lay tar in the UK over 40C
02:04 PM gregcnc: rolling blackout give days off too
02:04 PM JT-Shop: lol a search for 40c does not turn up what you think it should
02:05 PM gloops: someone once gave me a business card, he was a member of just about every body of architects and civil engineers there was - no way am i working for this prick i thought
02:05 PM fragalot: JT-Shop: large collets? :P
02:05 PM JT-Shop: bras
02:05 PM CaptHindsight: lol
02:06 PM gregcnc: so not exactly tool holders either
02:06 PM SpeedEvil: Not 32c, anyway
02:06 PM SpeedEvil: ^40
02:07 PM gloops: Director is pretty normal for small ltd company
02:07 PM gloops: CEO is more PLC
02:07 PM miss0r: I've just left it blank. It feels more like me
02:08 PM fragalot: chief tinkerer
02:09 PM gloops: miss0r far be it from to advise anyone on their business, you will find whats best for you, a bunch of business cards is something that can easily be changed
02:10 PM miss0r: Indeed. I'll only order 500 for now.
02:10 PM XXCoder: miss0r: white ink on white card. ;)
02:10 PM XXCoder: have to slant it to see gloss vs dull
02:10 PM fragalot: XXCoder: you may laugh but that actually works
02:10 PM fragalot: give it to a greasemonkey
02:10 PM miss0r: 'would you like your complimentary lemon so you can read that card?'
02:10 PM fragalot: fingerprints darken paper but not ink
02:11 PM enleth: miss0r: I've seen people just state "owner" or "sole properitor" on their business cards, which is exactly what it says on the tin and isn't pompous
02:12 PM gloops: myself i prefer an unpretentious card, if someone gives me a fancy holographic card with metallic fonts and all that crap, i actually get a negative vibe from it
02:12 PM gloops: why?
02:12 PM gloops: i need his phone number thats all
02:12 PM * fragalot doesn't read into business cards all that much
02:13 PM fragalot: half the time they're just a reminder tool that I need to call or email someone & after that they end up in the bin anyhow
02:13 PM miss0r: enleth: I guess. But i'll stick to the blank space - have people guessing ;)
02:13 PM gregcnc: but you kept 11000 misprinted cards?
02:13 PM fragalot: gregcnc: it's only recent that they've become obsolete :P
02:14 PM fragalot: worst thing is, I've maybe given out... 5?
02:14 PM miss0r: hahahahaa
02:14 PM enleth: a friend of mine has business cards made ouf of FR4 that are actually a working circuit with a programmed uC, and a USB plug formed on the corner
02:14 PM enleth: it acts as a pendrive containing his CV
02:15 PM fragalot: enleth: neat for job applicatiosn. "here plug in this random device on your network would you?" :D
02:15 PM gloops: there are two kinds of people in services - those who get work from reputation and good work and word of mouth, and those who get work from marketting and advertising
02:15 PM gloops: avoid the market savvy types
02:15 PM enleth: fragalot: yeah, he *is* an embedded security researcher, so there is some irony to this
02:15 PM gloops: first sign - flash card, fancy website, logos and all that crap
02:16 PM enleth: fragalot: he mostly hands those out on security conferences
02:24 PM pink_vampire: the machine is making chips!
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: I used to print cards on odd materials, canvas, PVC, metals etc
02:25 PM pink_vampire: the mist is just sooo good
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: always fun at trade shows
02:27 PM gloops: pink_vampire im making spaghetti
02:28 PM pink_vampire: you can make me?
02:29 PM gloops: i could but probably be cold by the time you arrived at the table
02:29 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: cnc machined cards? ;)
02:29 PM gloops: CaptHindsight, it depends on the nature of the business i suppose
02:30 PM gregcnc: I have a lasered stainless card from a laser cutter
02:30 PM gloops: some people will pic a flash card up and be impressed, others will not
02:30 PM pink_vampire: gloops: is this a good idea to microwave this?
02:31 PM gloops: a jobbing tradesman has no call for marketing strategy, hes probably already got too much work to handle as it is
02:31 PM gregcnc: reminds me, I should look into IMTS this year
02:34 PM XXCoder: microwave what?
02:34 PM pink_vampire: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCa-CmFMcLKC2a_k0e-bOb5A
02:35 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder: it was a microwave show on this channel
02:35 PM XXCoder: microwvae a mannequin?
02:36 PM XXCoder: wow they SUCK on making video
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: September 10-15, will be here in no time
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.imts.com/
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: methods_: are you going?
02:49 PM methods_: probably not
02:49 PM methods_: we were just there for fabtech
02:49 PM methods_: i don't know though i'll talk to the boss man
02:49 PM XXCoder: Okuma UGGGGGH
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: methods_: did you get the big laser?
02:50 PM methods_: we're still getting quotes and stuff
02:50 PM methods_: quotes on machines and trade in for our old laser
02:50 PM methods_: but yeah we're getting one of the new fibers
02:50 PM methods_: just not sure if we're getting the trumpf or mitsubishi
02:51 PM gregcnc: i guess d2p is in May
02:51 PM XXCoder: there is laser cnc brand of trumpf? lol
02:51 PM XXCoder: is machine orange colored?
02:52 PM methods_: trumpf not trump
02:52 PM gregcnc: you can see turmpf from the tollway in hoffman estates
02:52 PM XXCoder: uh I said trumpf :P
02:52 PM CaptHindsight: heh, if Trump made machines...
02:52 PM methods_: yeah we wouldn't buy it
02:52 PM XXCoder: yeah lol
02:52 PM methods_: i don't want a useless piece of orange shit taking up room in the shop
02:53 PM methods_: telling lies about how awesome it is
02:53 PM XXCoder: my laser size is just fine!
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: 61F but raining
02:54 PM XXCoder: 34f and snowing, or was
02:54 PM gregcnc: don't worry it will change soon
02:54 PM methods_: 81f baby
02:54 PM XXCoder: its last hurrah of winter here I guess. got more snow than any point before in winter :P
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: yeah down to 20F tonight
02:54 PM XXCoder: methods_: ugg where you at?
02:54 PM methods_: charleston sc
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: yoyo weather
02:55 PM methods_: staring at a palm tree while i type this
02:55 PM XXCoder: I'll be sure not to visit in summer lol
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: too much fog and rain to see anything
02:55 PM fragalot: it's going from 6°C to -20°C here
02:56 PM fragalot: :/
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: you too
02:56 PM gloops: -20c in belgium?
02:56 PM XXCoder: it rarely gets as low as 30f here for years now
02:56 PM XXCoder: it used to average 25f-30f here
02:56 PM gloops: there is a blast coming our way from siberia
02:56 PM XXCoder: now its always 35f-40f entire winter
02:57 PM gloops: XXCoder when was 'used to be' ?
02:57 PM XXCoder: 80s
02:58 PM gloops: what did it used to be before that?
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: siberia, sounds like a Russian plot
02:59 PM XXCoder: gloops: more cloudy summer, slightly cooler winters
02:59 PM fragalot: gloops: down to -20°C in "de hoge venen" in belgium, apparently
03:00 PM gloops: but the rock your house sits on XXCoder was surfaced by ice sheets
03:00 PM XXCoder: yeop it was under HUGE lake dammed by ice
03:01 PM methods_: that's why we killed all those wooly mammoths
03:01 PM XXCoder: btw before you consider moving to wa state, here we are best on not being great drivers
03:01 PM methods_: they were causing global warming
03:01 PM gloops: so we can say the climate in your area has seen much greater extremes than slightly cooler summers
03:02 PM gloops: and will again
03:04 PM fragalot: https://i.imgur.com/f0d3EA0.jpg <- relevant.
03:05 PM XXCoder: fragalot: ya seen that before. yeah on one of those washington state forever rains, it sure looks like that is true.
03:05 PM miss0r: I'm thinking i'll spend an hour or two next week making ~10 scripe pens, with a tungsten carbide tip, and a the company name engraved. That should make for a nice merchamdise gift
03:05 PM miss0r: merchandise* ? :S
03:07 PM XXCoder: isnt that quite expensive
03:07 PM XXCoder: I remember one video of one guy using dead drill to make very nice scribe pen
03:08 PM miss0r: not expensive when you have a somewhat sizeable whoops bin, with lots'n lots of tiny endmills with a 4mm shaft
03:08 PM XXCoder: not bad
03:08 PM fragalot: miss0r: could you DIY them cheaper than you could buy them?
03:08 PM fragalot: factoring in time
03:08 PM XXCoder: when 1/16 ball em breaks off it's almost already good as scribe point
03:09 PM XXCoder: just need some grind to make it have a nice point
03:09 PM miss0r: fragalot: Sure, well - I've yet to come across a good quality carbide scripe pen. Even the branded one I have does not have the same hardness in the tip
03:09 PM fragalot: true
03:09 PM miss0r: I just made one in 15 mins, and tested it by scriping my name on a HSS toolbit blank
03:10 PM fragalot: I keep dropping them so I've stopped bothering, lol
03:10 PM miss0r: I think that'll do. Just don't drop it ;)
03:10 PM miss0r: yeah, lol
03:10 PM fragalot: what you need, are 0.7x60mm carbide rods
03:10 PM fragalot: put them in a mechanical pencil
03:10 PM miss0r: That would be cute
03:10 PM XXCoder: could use grinder wheel and drill to make point. HMMMM
03:11 PM XXCoder: even better, it can be re-pointed same way
03:11 PM miss0r: I have a tool grinder, that is somewhat faster ;)
03:12 PM fragalot: only if it has to be accurate
03:12 PM XXCoder: you make the point yourself by eyeballing or did I picture tool grinder wrong
03:12 PM fragalot: if it's just a matter of grinding a needle)point (eg. just /|) the bench grinder with a CBN wheel would be faster :P
03:12 PM fragalot: get'r'done before you've even set up
03:13 PM gloops: any thoughts? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Desktop-milling-machine/282853209004?
03:13 PM miss0r: fragalot: It needs to be acurate, well somewhat acurate - Theres nothing worse than the line moving away from the straight edge if you turn the scriper a bit
03:13 PM gloops: thats right near me
03:13 PM miss0r: gloops: Looks sloppy
03:14 PM fragalot: was that picture taken by a potato?
03:14 PM gloops: hard to tell through screen and all
03:14 PM miss0r: gloops: My tool grinder has a C5 collect I can set to specific angles, and then rotate the workpeice while grinding
03:14 PM * fragalot loves his cutter grinder
03:14 PM fragalot: i've converted mine from deckel style collets to ER25 for economical reasons though
03:15 PM fragalot: none of my machines are accurate enough to know the difference
03:15 PM miss0r: My cutter grinder came with 50+ collects
03:15 PM miss0r: (another one of thoes deals I couldn't say no to :D )
03:15 PM fragalot: mine came with 4... 4, 5, 8, 10
03:15 PM gloops: well i can see the x and y movement, wheres the z
03:16 PM fragalot: what I needed most was a 3 and 6mm :P
03:16 PM miss0r: hehe
03:16 PM miss0r: I have to call it a night. See you around
03:16 PM fragalot: gnite miss0r
03:16 PM gloops: strange thing
03:19 PM XXCoder: gloops: looks more like router than mill
03:20 PM XXCoder: picture is blurry and sucky. hiding flaws?
03:21 PM XXCoder: pretty cheap tho
03:23 PM gloops: yeah not really under any illusions that it is anything more than a toy mill, but even a toy mill has to be useable, for something, to be worth buying, 50 quid is nothing
03:23 PM XXCoder: its not quite impluse buy level for me
03:23 PM XXCoder: but cheap enough
03:23 PM gloops: i cant see how the spindle is raised, if that is the spindle...
03:24 PM XXCoder: yeah thats why I said its a router
03:24 PM XXCoder: or maybe its laser hmmm
03:24 PM fragalot: it's not even a router
03:24 PM XXCoder: would explain enclosure
03:24 PM fragalot: it's an engraver at most
03:24 PM XXCoder: annoying when guy dont know cnc, but same time it means el cheapo deals
03:24 PM gloops: meh stuff it, i have enough useless articles
03:24 PM fragalot: you can see the tiny DC motor on the left
03:24 PM fragalot: and a "high speed" spindle to the right of it
03:25 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sherline-5100-standard-metric-milling-machine-with-milling-vice-3551/332560980440?
03:25 PM fragalot: it looks like it's leadscrew based too, so if it's an engraver it's a slow one
03:25 PM gloops: comes from a school, ideal for kids to see cnc work
03:26 PM fragalot: that vice is cute, all the drawbacks of a grinding vice, with none of the advantages :D
03:26 PM XXCoder: yeah and underpowered so less chance of something exploding and shooting something at student
03:26 PM fragalot: gloops: likely used to mill out PCB's
03:26 PM fragalot: or make tags
03:27 PM XXCoder: the z structure looks weeeak but then its not big and its cheap
03:43 PM JT-Shop: it even comes with some chips
03:44 PM gregcnc: make wooden utensils https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6rrudwhoEc
03:53 PM XXCoder: gregcnc: nice project idea
03:53 PM XXCoder: it could be done by block with align holes
03:54 PM gregcnc: i've been thinking about it for years, but haven't gotten around to making any
03:54 PM XXCoder: oh theres a video
03:54 PM gregcnc: I think i saw chinaco spindles and for sure Mach
03:54 PM XXCoder: looks like made by hand and basic machines nioce
03:54 PM XXCoder: oh and cnc :P
03:55 PM XXCoder: 4 head cnc nice
03:56 PM XXCoder: that V sander block is interesting
03:57 PM XXCoder: hot water then sand again, didnt know that trick. nice
04:04 PM Deejay: gn8
04:18 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20180214-the-days-of-collapsing-3d-printed-concrete-walls-could-be-over.html
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: great news, now the people that choose to live in these homes won't be crushed to death while sleeping or watching TV!
04:23 PM gloops: yeah but they still have trouble hanging pictures on the walls
04:25 PM gloops: GERMANY: The Eurosceptic AfD has overtaken the unashamedly pro-EU SPD in the polls.
04:25 PM gloops: the german UKIP is on the rise
04:35 PM cpresser: its worse than ukip. most of them are nazis
04:37 PM gloops: nazis? surely not
04:39 PM cpresser: great part of them are antisemits. they are revisionists, some deny the holocaust.
04:41 PM cpresser: those are direct quotes from their leaders: https://wir-sind-afd.de/
04:42 PM gloops: i think you might be putting 2 and 2 together and getting 6 cpresser, these are largely well meaning people with doubts over certain policies regarding national identity, borders, immigration and so on
04:42 PM CaptHindsight: looks like it's all in German
04:45 PM cpresser: gloops: that is one aspect, for sure. but as long as they dont distance themselfs from people that are in jail for setting refuguees houses on fire, I will call them nazis
04:46 PM cpresser: they (not all, but some) do call for violence on their public meetings, this is already pretty bad.
04:47 PM gloops: without expressing support for any party involved here, its fair to observe that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, wrecklessly opening the floodgates to millions of foreigners is bound to cause a reaction
04:47 PM CaptHindsight: besides being anti-refugee are they just scared of people that look a bit different and speak other languages?
04:47 PM gloops: they arent refugees
04:48 PM CaptHindsight: anti-immigrant, basically just afraid of people that are different?
04:49 PM gloops: fascism sprang forth from excessive liberalism, the Weimar republic, similar trends repeating themselves now
04:49 PM CaptHindsight: excessive liberalism heh, no it was due to ignorance and arrogance
04:50 PM gloops: there is some of that to it sure captHindsight, but many other reasons as well, this is not a movement of ignorant xenophobes, educated middle class people are moving this
04:50 PM cpresser: well, its a complicated topic. Nothing that can be easily discussed in IRC
04:50 PM cpresser: It seems like I disagree on quite some topics with gloops
04:51 PM CaptHindsight: educated, well that is subjective
04:51 PM cpresser: gloops: the original founders quite the movement some years ago. it was to right-wing for them
04:52 PM CaptHindsight: cpresser: it's interesting to me since the discussions get framed around the pop propaganda of the day
04:54 PM * cpresser spends a few hours a day reading about the AfD, with the intent to fight them
04:54 PM gloops: we havent seen much of the afd on our news channels, saw a female spokesman a few times, she was pretty eloquent and engaging
04:55 PM cpresser: gloops: "Frauke Petry"? she also left, because the party was leaning to far right
04:55 PM cpresser: it could also be alice weidel
04:55 PM gloops: ahh..shame
04:56 PM cpresser: about weidel: "She is the first lesbian to serve as a lead candidate of her party, which opposes same-sex marriage and adoptions."
04:56 PM CaptHindsight: they come across as ignorant and just plain racist, we have similar problems here with the supposedly educated
04:57 PM gloops: cpresser this is happening in the UK - this is my home town, been dozens of marches https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfQ7NByBzCY
04:58 PM cpresser: that looks pretty similar, gloops
04:58 PM gloops: i have seen some footage on the continent of night time marches carrying burning torches, which does smack of the 1930s a tadge
04:59 PM CaptHindsight: polarized and ignorant that can't think critically, facts are only what their peer group believes to be facts...
05:00 PM CaptHindsight: so education is difficult as they get older
05:00 PM roycroft: your white middle class allegedly anti-xenophobic people are blaming immigrants for the problems caused by horrible tory austerity policies
05:00 PM CaptHindsight: they follow whatever their "team" believes and tells them to do
05:01 PM roycroft: the very people they voted for
05:01 PM gloops: roycroft they cant vote for labour
05:01 PM cpresser: this is how it looks in dresden, germany: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoeE-5TlPoI
05:01 PM roycroft: one thing that the uk and the us have in common is an ironic propensity of the population to vote against their own self-interests
05:02 PM roycroft: the alternative to not voting tory is not necessarily voting labour
05:02 PM cpresser: roycroft: this happens all over europe. austria, netherlands, poland, spain
05:02 PM SpeedEvil: roycroft: Well, yes, if you don't have a first-past-the-post system, that might be a point.
05:02 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: the evil genius plan works
05:02 PM SpeedEvil: Unless your alternative was a coup.
05:03 PM roycroft: even if you do it's a point
05:03 PM roycroft: we have republicans here, who are traitors to everything our country stands for
05:03 PM CaptHindsight: the real problem is how do you get through to these people? How do you educate them?
05:03 PM roycroft: and we have democrats, who are generally well-meaning but utterly incompetent
05:03 PM CaptHindsight: they are scared and manipulated
05:03 PM roycroft: i do not vote for either
05:04 PM gloops: tbh germany is more susceptible to collectivism, dangerous ideas probably take root more easily there
05:04 PM roycroft: but i would agree that getting rid of our first past the post system would make it a lot easier to effect better government
05:04 PM gloops: historically germany is not big on democracy
05:04 PM roycroft: neither is the us
05:05 PM roycroft: we like to pretend we are a democracy though
05:05 PM roycroft: anyway, work time is over and therefore shop time has begun
05:05 PM CaptHindsight: same for capitalism
05:05 PM roycroft: and i have new toys and good projects to work on
05:05 PM roycroft: :)
05:05 PM cpresser: gloops: why is germany not good on democracy? we did it all the way to the end, hitler was elected in a fair election
05:06 PM gloops: germans prefer to be ruled, they see elections as a necessary formality, not some scared right, theyd rather have a strong government than the right to vote
05:06 PM roycroft: the us is to capitalism as beauty is to rat turds
05:06 PM CaptHindsight: sounds like they need better educations
05:06 PM CaptHindsight: same for here
05:07 PM gloops: cpresser further back, the germans have had harsh overlords, the Junckers ruled germany with an iron fist
05:07 PM gloops: and yet the people remained faithful
05:08 PM CaptHindsight: plus they had too many nations with funny names, Prussia, Silesia , etc
05:08 PM cpresser: well, nobody had 'real democracy' (like everybody gets a vote) before the 18th century
05:09 PM CaptHindsight: have you seen a 19th century map of the area?
05:09 PM cpresser: sure
05:09 PM gloops: plus the only nation with sausage vending machines
05:10 PM CaptHindsight: besides Japan
05:10 PM cpresser: and cigarette vending machines
05:10 PM cpresser: (which japan has as well)
05:10 PM CaptHindsight: Japan never invaded Poland and you can buy used girls underwear from a vending machine in Japan
05:11 PM CaptHindsight: so what was my point? :)
05:11 PM cpresser: my point is that democracy works well in germany, and has worked well in the past.
05:11 PM cpresser: we even allow black people to vote :)
05:12 PM CaptHindsight: US, UK and much of Europe seem to be getting divided by using these tactics
05:12 PM gloops: maybe thats why some parties are so keen to invite them to germany cpresser
05:12 PM CaptHindsight: why and who would want to divide these countries?
05:13 PM CaptHindsight: for what benefit to whom?
05:13 PM gloops: globalists, communists
05:14 PM CaptHindsight: the Russians are another topic
05:14 PM gloops: globalists want to erase all trace of nationhood, including culture and identity, race etc
05:14 PM CaptHindsight: but when are people going to wake up to that they are just being manipulated
05:14 PM CaptHindsight: for someone else gain
05:15 PM gloops: communists - the frankfurt school long ago decreed that western culture was immune to the normal socialists methods of subversions, class war and so on, before you can propagate socialism in the west you must first destroy western culture
05:15 PM CaptHindsight: not much of a red scare anymore
05:16 PM gloops: the reds havent gone away, theyre just using a different approach
05:17 PM CaptHindsight: today's boogie men wear towels on their heads and have slightly darker skin
05:17 PM CaptHindsight: Russian or Chinese reds?
05:24 PM CaptHindsight: cpresser should spending his time building machines, he's more valuable and happy that way...
05:25 PM CaptHindsight: but now that they have riled up a bunch of idiots he has to spend his time fighting these idiots
05:50 PM cpresser: CaptHindsight: its also fun to fight nazis. it feels good. and besides, somebody has to do it. we do need to prevent history repeating itself
05:53 PM cpresser: and there is still enough time left to play with machines.
05:53 PM cpresser: i got an xray recently: https://twitter.com/cccpresser/status/963912227110649861
05:54 PM ves: recompiling to be NOT run-in-place... and upgrade tcl and tk to 8.6 and force python2.7
06:02 PM CaptHindsight: cpresser: well as long as you are enjoying yourself
06:20 PM Tom_L: i noticed running a program the other day i got a message in axis about running from a particular line
06:20 PM Tom_L: never noticed that before
06:21 PM Tom_L: don't remember exactly what i was doing at the time to trigger it
06:40 PM Crom_: day 4 of trying to install linuxcnc on mint 64bit.
06:41 PM Crom_: found a couple things configure didn't find....
06:42 PM Crom_: gotta force Python2.7 for sure...
07:29 PM roycroft: well, folks, i drank some kool-aid today
07:29 PM roycroft: the good green and black kool-aid from germany
07:29 PM roycroft: and i liked it
07:30 PM roycroft: i got a festool random orbital sander
07:30 PM roycroft: it's fast, comfortable to hold, virtually no vibration, and i would have a hard time finding sawdust with a microscope
07:31 PM Tom_L: i like dynabrade personally
07:32 PM roycroft: isn't their stuff all pneumatic?
07:32 PM Tom_L: the ones i have are
07:32 PM Tom_L: 6 & 8"
07:32 PM roycroft: electric sanders work best for me for woodworking
07:32 PM roycroft: i have some pneumatic sanding/grinding tools
07:32 PM roycroft: they're fine for metalwork and auto body work and the like
07:33 PM Tom_L: we used these for wood
07:33 PM roycroft: sure
07:33 PM roycroft: it's a personal preference thing for me
07:33 PM Tom_L: got enough pads for them to last 3-4 lifetimes too
07:33 PM roycroft: my pneumatic sanders/grinders aren't very high quality anyway
07:34 PM roycroft: i bought a bunch of sanding disks with the thing
07:34 PM roycroft: but i can see myself buying a lot more
07:34 PM Tom_L: a friend has a shop that designed the machines that cut them out for 3M so they gave him tons of stock to test with
07:34 PM roycroft: festool make abrasives going up to 2000 grit, i believe, for the sander i bought
07:34 PM roycroft: and they have some really soft pads for polishing
07:35 PM roycroft: but this is a small (125mm) sander that i'll primarily use for intermediate sanding - 120 to 320 grit
07:35 PM roycroft: i don't usually go higher than 220 grit for bare wood
07:35 PM Tom_L: we never went much past 600
07:36 PM roycroft: higher grits can be nice if you're polishing plastics
07:36 PM roycroft: like headlight lenses and the like
07:36 PM roycroft: but yeah, most auto body work stops in the 400-600 grit range
07:36 PM Tom_L: i've got a kit that goes up to around 4-6k grit
07:36 PM roycroft: i had a ro sander die last week
07:36 PM roycroft: i've always used inexpensive ones
07:37 PM roycroft: the vibration was getting to be a problem
07:37 PM roycroft: an hour of sanding and my right elbow would be pretty painful
07:37 PM roycroft: and dust extraction was never very good with them
07:37 PM roycroft: i'd been pondering festool for quite a while
07:37 PM roycroft: but i saw a video the other day that sold me on their sanders
07:38 PM roycroft: a guy put down some black plastic on a workbench
07:38 PM roycroft: took a board with the edge painted white
07:38 PM roycroft: sanded the paint off with various sanders
07:38 PM roycroft: and showed the black plastic after each round of sanding
07:38 PM Crom_: for leaded seams, we start with a rasp, then file, then 400, 800, 1500 wet paper. Never liked bondo...
07:38 PM roycroft: with the festol it was black
07:39 PM roycroft: with all the other sanders it was black with varying amounts of white specs, ranging from a lot of white specs to a whole lot of white specs
07:40 PM * roycroft spent a long weekend removing all the bondo from the rear end of one of his vw buses a while back, pulling the dents out, and leading it
07:40 PM Crom_: so much better... no rust worries either after leading
07:40 PM roycroft: i'm not good at doing lead work on auto body panels
07:41 PM roycroft: i got the job done, but it took way way longer than it should have
07:41 PM roycroft: and yeah
07:41 PM roycroft: it's a lot better
07:41 PM roycroft: it won't rust out
07:41 PM Crom_: I get my mum to do it... deft hand she has
07:41 PM roycroft: the battery tray on the inside had rusted out
07:41 PM roycroft: and since there were big dents (you would not believe how much bondo i removed) the replacement tray did not fit
07:41 PM roycroft: so i had to pull the dents out in order to weld a new tray in
07:41 PM roycroft: and i just decided that bondo was not something i wanted to have anything to do with
07:42 PM roycroft: lead was hard for me to control
07:42 PM roycroft: but i finally got it done
07:42 PM roycroft: the real problem is that it requires three arms - one to hold the torch, one to hold the lead, and one to hold the paddle
07:43 PM Tom_L: hold the lead in your teeth
07:49 PM roycroft: yum!
07:49 PM roycroft: lead tastes sweet
07:52 PM Crom_: leaded wine is so much sweeter
07:52 PM roycroft: lead lead wine, goes to my head
07:53 PM Tom_L: mercury used to be a thing centuries ago too
07:53 PM roycroft: makes me forget that i was once sane
07:53 PM roycroft: silver too
07:53 PM roycroft: we have the blue man group who are supposed to be a new thing
07:54 PM roycroft: but we had lots of blue people back when drinking silver was popular
07:54 PM roycroft: smurfs are real!
07:55 PM roycroft: ingesting silver makes people more purple than blue, but it's a blueish purple
10:02 PM ASRock_pc: https://www.toolots.com/bodee-bd0503001-3-jaw-width-3-jaw-opening-milling-machine-accu-anglock-vise-with-swivel-base.html#productDetails
10:02 PM ASRock_pc: i wonder about the quality of that one
10:20 PM CaptHindsight: YUUTool
10:20 PM Tom_L: i'm wondering if a 4" might be too big for my table
10:21 PM Tom_L: so i've been looking for 3" also
10:21 PM Tom_L: the Kurt DX4 isn't available til April iirc
10:22 PM Tom_L: ebay actually has an original kurt 3", i didn't even know they made one
10:23 PM SpeedEvil: Lots of original stuff in sizes the maker never actually made.
10:23 PM Tom_L: 263499557620
10:24 PM Tom_L: kinda cute :)