#linuxcnc Logs

Feb 18 2018

12:02 AM Contract_Pilot: Just had 2 duracell 3Aleak in a hood
12:05 AM Contract_Pilot: Was able to get the out minimal damage to the AFD housing
12:05 AM jesseg: actually, it looks like a copper top ultra is about 400mA, so these LiIon's would be half again as much more at 600mAh.
12:05 AM Contract_Pilot: batteried leak because they go ead
12:05 AM Contract_Pilot: dead
12:05 AM jesseg: yeah googling it indicates that everybody is having leak problems with all major brands -- and google it, they can leak *before* they go dead and before their pulldate.
12:05 AM jesseg: I had some AAAs (Duracell duralock) leak on my in a flashlight -- and they were still good! Flashlight was still nice and bright and batteries were not past pulldate but oh they had leaked all over. Duracell sent me a check for $13 (It was a $13 flashlight from amazon.. LOL)
12:05 AM jesseg: But lipo batteries don't even have liquid in them.
12:05 AM jesseg: so I'm hopeful :D
12:06 AM Contract_Pilot: Potassium Hydroxide Burns Suck
12:06 AM Contract_Pilot: Date on Bat leaks got me new maglights from energizer
12:07 AM jesseg: yeah
12:07 AM jesseg: if you need lots of power, the lithium primary cells are great and also a leak proof chemistry
12:07 AM jesseg: but... very expensive.
12:07 AM jesseg: and, not rechargeable
12:08 AM Wolf__: more exciting when they short out also
12:08 AM jesseg: if I leave my meter on and run the battery dead so I can pop in a another and put the dead on on the charger, and I don't feel bad. If I leave it on with a lithium primary cell and it runs dead I feel bad :P
12:08 AM Contract_Pilot: Yep i use Lithium in a in my Fluke and other expensive electronics
12:09 AM jesseg: well I got about 660mAh from this lithium ion "9v"
12:09 AM Contract_Pilot: I left my fluke 87 on for a year called auto shutoff
12:09 AM jesseg: and most of it was above 7v
12:09 AM Contract_Pilot: Fluke 187
12:09 AM Wolf__: I have a nice stack of li-pos that I’m waiting to have catch on fire
12:09 AM Contract_Pilot: It usus 4 AA though..
12:10 AM jesseg: my OTC OEM1428 doesn't have auto shut off. My daddy gave it to me when I was a teen, it was old then :P
12:10 AM Contract_Pilot: Wolf has great home owners insurance right?
12:10 AM Wolf__: yeah
12:11 AM Wolf__: but right now they are all sitting in the woodstove so if one cooks itself off not much going to happen
12:11 AM Contract_Pilot: I had the sledge hammer in had last night..
12:11 AM Contract_Pilot: or this morning
12:12 AM Contract_Pilot: was about ready to smash his lathe... up.
12:12 AM Contract_Pilot: this
12:12 AM jesseg: A woodstove is a good place to store lithium batteries
12:12 AM Contract_Pilot: still may do so.
12:12 AM Wolf__: lol whats up wit the lathe
12:12 AM Contract_Pilot: Just pissing me off
12:13 AM fragalot: Contract_Pilot: trade?
12:14 AM Contract_Pilot: i may have a lead on a TL lathe with locked controllr
12:14 AM Contract_Pilot: TL2
12:16 AM Contract_Pilot: They gonna pull the control box the rest may be mine... but I have to show some sort of destruction... Prob drill hole in bed.
12:17 AM fragalot: get some of those bullethole stickers
12:17 AM jesseg: LOL....
12:17 AM Contract_Pilot: Prob take this one in to the scrap yard with wifes car for scrap recipe
12:18 AM Contract_Pilot: then buy wife a better car and be money ahead...
12:51 AM fragalot: hi
12:51 AM IchGucksLive: morning from deep frozen -10C outside Germayn
01:13 AM IchGucksLive: off later
02:21 AM Deejay: moin
03:18 AM nallar is now known as Ross
03:46 AM TurBoss: moning
04:25 AM gloops: all quiet on the western front
04:34 AM gloops: just got myself a working 9 inch bosch angle grinder for £12 lol, looked well used but i reckoned the diamond blade was worth more than that, just plugged it in its a goer
05:19 AM jthornton: morning
05:20 AM fragalot: afternoon
05:21 AM fragalot: started fixing the wireless side of things. https://imgur.com/a/CyDar
05:22 AM jthornton: nice to have power
05:23 AM jthornton: now if I can just figure out what happened to my network I'd be ok again
05:24 AM jthornton: it's so funny to watch a pullet stick her head under the divider and pull the egg back only to watch it roll back
05:24 AM fragalot: lol
05:26 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:43 AM Califax: Test
05:43 AM Deejay: working
05:43 AM jthornton: failed
05:59 AM jthornton: this is really strange I can look at the network on my windblows pc and I see the nas and the other windblows pc but no linux pcs
05:59 AM jthornton: from linux all I see is the nas and nothing else
06:03 AM jthornton: NETGEAR does not recommend or support adding a NETGEAR router behind
06:03 AM jthornton: another router, or replacing a gateway with a NETGEAR router.
06:23 AM malcom2073: jthornton: When you say look at the network, you mean browsing the network via explorer?
06:23 AM malcom2073: Or pinging the IP?
06:23 AM jthornton: yea browsing with any file manager
06:24 AM jthornton: no I can ping everything and can see everything with arp-scan --interface=eth0 --localnet
06:24 AM malcom2073: jthornton: Have you added the linux PC to the windows workgroup?
06:24 AM jthornton: I think part of the problem is I have more than one router and not sure if the cascaded one is set correctly
06:24 AM jthornton: in windows?
06:24 AM malcom2073: On linux
06:25 AM malcom2073: afaik (At least it's been my experience), windows won't see the linux PC's unless you set their netbios workgroup name to the same as the windows pc's
06:26 AM malcom2073: That being siad, could be some weird router thing as well, if you're using an odd configuration
06:26 AM Deejay: yep, i think (at least in older windows versions) the workgroup is important
06:26 AM jthornton: everything used to work fine as far as the pc's have not been changed
06:27 AM jthornton: so pc configuration should not be the issue
06:27 AM jthornton: everyone is on WORKGROUP
06:27 AM malcom2073: Ah gotcha
06:28 AM jthornton: I need to unplug everthing from this netgear router down here and check it's configuration
06:34 AM jthornton: looks like linksys is the only one that officially supports cascading routers
06:34 AM IchGucksLive: hi :-)
06:35 AM IchGucksLive: hi Califax new meber welcome to our channel
06:36 AM malcom2073: Why are you trying to do that anyway?
06:36 AM malcom2073: Oh he left heh
06:36 AM malcom2073: JT-Shop: Why are you trying to stick one router behind another? That's a recipie for problems, especially with off the shelf routers
06:37 AM Loetmichel: malcom2073: is it?
06:37 AM Loetmichel: why?
06:38 AM Loetmichel: thats the usual way to do it here in germany if you have one of the "ISP provided and configured router" data plans
06:38 AM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: are ther redy made modules for pos/Neg voltige 15V 50mA requierd
06:38 AM IchGucksLive: or do i ned to build myself from a print trafo
06:39 AM Loetmichel: IchGucksLive: you mean power supply?
06:39 AM IchGucksLive: yes
06:39 AM Loetmichel: cant think of one with only 50mA symetric 15V
06:39 AM IchGucksLive: +15V -15V
06:39 AM Loetmichel: but i have seen some for "hutschiene" mounting with a few 100mA
06:39 AM Loetmichel: that should work
06:40 AM Loetmichel: look into "schaltschrankbau" stuff
06:41 AM malcom2073: Loetmichel: It typically breaks upnp and udp hole punching among other things. Your normal users won't see issues, but your normal user won't be stacking routers like that heh. Dunno about your ISP stuff, that's probably configured differently than off the shelf stuff
06:42 AM Loetmichel: malcom2073: those dont work that well anyways with the usual ISP provided routers
06:43 AM malcom2073: Most people here either use the ISP provided router alone, or get their own modem and stick a router behind it, which avoids these issues
06:43 AM Loetmichel: problem is that they are adamant that you use their routers... going as far as not telling you the credentials to log in with your own.
06:43 AM malcom2073: Ah that's unfortunate, no such restriction here
06:43 AM Loetmichel: and any sane person doesent want to have a "foreign" configured router in their network anyway
06:44 AM Loetmichel: so you have no chance but to chain two routers
06:44 AM malcom2073: Doh
06:46 AM malcom2073: Yeah that wouldn't fly here, don't want that foreign router connected at all, so I just buy my own modem and use that to connect to a real router
06:46 AM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: found one tmp10215 but 40 Euros
06:47 AM Loetmichel: as i said: some of the ISPs here even refuse to give you the credentials to log into the internet
06:47 AM malcom2073: Yeah that's unfortunate
06:47 AM Loetmichel: IchGucksLive: yes, they are expensive
06:54 AM Loetmichel: malcom2073: fortunally the isp i have (DTAG) does a compromise. you can rent a router from them or buy your own, activate Tr069 protocol to get it remote configured, get internet access and VOIP numbers configured remotely, then deactivate Tr069 and have your own config as you whish. they even provide the neccessary credentials for a non-tr069 compatible router. but you have to ask to get
06:54 AM Loetmichel: them. On paper. via snail mail ;)
07:00 AM malcom2073: Hah ouch, at least there is an option though
07:00 AM * fragalot waves
07:01 AM IchGucksLive: ;-)
07:01 AM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: tmr2423 gives the best shot
07:01 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: bit by bit.. https://imgur.com/a/CyDar
07:01 AM fragalot: I think the rest will wait until I have made the actual frame
07:02 AM IchGucksLive: as you say
07:02 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: my ISP gives you access to your modem configuration,.. through a portal on their website.
07:03 AM IchGucksLive: i hope the noice is not to hard as VFD and 3PSU will produce alot
07:03 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: dosent sound better to me.
07:03 AM fragalot: and they made it so horrendously slow that you want to give up
07:04 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: whirer chanels are form Rehau hager ...
07:05 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: Yes.
07:05 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: the big condensators are the coolest items
07:06 AM fragalot: :)
07:06 AM IchGucksLive: i worked 22years for the Hager and did made 8Years lonng punching tools for the wirer chanels
07:06 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: i went the easy route: buying a new router, let them do the initial config remotely, then switching off the tr069 protocol and to the rest of the config myself. Here's hoping they have no backdoor to switch the tr069 back on... i doubt they have enough criminal energy to do that though
07:07 AM Loetmichel: s/to/do
07:07 AM Loetmichel: IchGucksLive: hihi. i wokred briefly for rittal.
07:08 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: sadly that route isn't an option here, you /have/ to use theirs.
07:08 AM fragalot: only thing you can do is daisy-chain
07:08 AM fragalot: which they don't like, but they can't really stop you :P
07:09 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: looking at your pic: does anyone REALLY use those cable ties tightener tool?
07:09 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: I do like the ones from Rehau, they're a good balance between getting the lid on & off easily, vs the lid staying on when they're full.
07:09 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: airflow in the cabinett ?
07:09 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: I use it because I have it.. I inherited 3 :P
07:10 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: at the moment, assuming the datasheets are correct, according to my calculations i'm right on the edge of needing external cooling.. so I'm going to try without first, and put a fan in if needed
07:10 AM Loetmichel: we have a few at the company. never used one... i can break cable ties by pulling on the end. no need to search for the tool to tighten them
07:11 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: VFD is to close it will shure head up and stall
07:11 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: it's not just about tightening though
07:11 AM IchGucksLive: put the Error out to a pin
07:11 AM fragalot: it gets into tight spaces, tightens the zip-tie so it's tight but does not yet break, and it flush-trims (the best feature)
07:12 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: and i woudt do the Display from VFD to the side via 10pinDIP cable
07:12 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: error has been connected from the VFD, and from the drives
07:13 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: i'm more considering connecting the RS485 MODBUS of the VFD
07:13 AM Loetmichel: IchGucksLive: on my mill the VFD got upgraded with some fine air filter cloth inside the fan... after i had to replace the mosfets once... its open near the spindle
07:13 AM fragalot: and get a better UI set up on the PC, rather than the shitty 7-seg display with weird characters.
07:14 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14148&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- right back under the TFT monitor
07:14 AM Loetmichel: had some issues with aluminium swarf getting in
07:14 AM Loetmichel: i can understand fragalot to not wanting to have some openings in his cabinet ;)
07:14 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: the switches needs also placing
07:15 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: if I can avoid it :D
07:15 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: front panel, but I don't have any other than a main isolator
07:15 AM Loetmichel: no estop?
07:15 AM fragalot: all of the switches I want are on my MPG
07:16 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: external on the machine where I can reach it
07:16 AM Loetmichel: ah, yes, makes sense
07:16 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: THIS oine work fine https://www.ebay.de/itm/Induktiver-Naherungsschalter-Naherungssensor-LJ12A3-4-Z-BX-Three-Wire-Schlieser-/252314884820?hash=item3abf239ad4:g:2TQAAOSwxvxW7Gq4
07:16 AM fragalot: an ESTOP makes no sense if you can't reach it :P
07:16 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: ah, I have a pile of phillips (I think) inductive sensors
07:16 AM Loetmichel: seen the pic of my small CNC 6040?
07:17 AM fragalot: also, I *hate* "NO" contact sensors
07:17 AM Loetmichel: want to wager hof often i have accidentally pressed the estop on it with my knee?
07:17 AM Loetmichel: -f+w
07:17 AM fragalot: haha
07:17 AM IchGucksLive: yes NC is better but you need pins
07:18 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: these are the ones I have a lot of: https://www.conrad.be/p/panasonic-inductieve-naderingsschakelaar-pnp-1429143
07:18 AM IchGucksLive: pricing is not my thing
07:18 AM fragalot: so i'm going to use 3 of those for homing, and I will use mechanical switches for endstops
07:19 AM fragalot: I trust a mechanical switch far more for endstop use than an inductive
07:19 AM IchGucksLive: i woudent even go for more then the HOME
07:19 AM IchGucksLive: its not needes as it wont run over
07:19 AM fragalot: meh I broke my first cnc 12 years ago by not having endstops and making a mistake in the config
07:20 AM fragalot: or if it misses home for some reason
07:20 AM fragalot: I have all the switches anyway, so it's not really an issue to just wire them up
07:20 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: i have shot half kilo end blocks screwed down onto the rails with two M8 8,8 screws each across the workshop and into the brick walls once
07:20 AM IchGucksLive: i use the Mechanical ME 8111 they are so accureate
07:21 AM Loetmichel: slight miscalculation while configuring 3kw servo drives ;)
07:21 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: lmao
07:21 AM IchGucksLive: heat miscalculation produces a tremmor of force
07:22 AM IchGucksLive: i got a mold headed up to 300Deg C
07:22 AM Loetmichel: that half ton rotating table on top of the axis didnt move much further than it should. maybe 5 or 10mm
07:22 AM IchGucksLive: calculaded on 6.2mm expand
07:22 AM Loetmichel: was enough to shear off the screws and send the end blocks flying
07:22 AM IchGucksLive: and it brok 12 M16 Screws
07:22 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: hehe
07:22 AM Loetmichel: and i didnt laugh... it was quite scary ;)
07:23 AM IchGucksLive: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Micro-Position-Limit-Switch-ME-8108-8104-9101-8166-8107-8111-8112-8122-Actuator-/182498834302
07:23 AM fragalot: it's always good when you can laugh in hindsight
07:24 AM fragalot: I've got a small scar on my left ear from a 16" lathe chuck flying over my left shoulder at 2000rpm when I was 16
07:24 AM IchGucksLive: in my yunger days as i learned my basics i shot 450KG steel from mashine with a 500mm Cutter running vinto it
07:24 AM IchGucksLive: hi GaryLa
07:25 AM fragalot: the teacher showed me how to change out a lathe chuck, and on that day I learned "even if the experienced guy tells you it's mounted properly.. trust, but verify".
07:26 AM IchGucksLive: GaryLa: quite heavy protests in FL against the loving President
07:26 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: That's an impressive weight to move
07:26 AM GaryLa: Just tried compiling linuxcnc. got a 'yapps' error: "make: yapps: Command not found" and "make: *** [objects/hal/utils/halcompile.py] Error 127" Anyone know what this is about? It completed dozens of files prior to this.
07:26 AM GaryLa: Hello
07:27 AM IchGucksLive: GaryLa: gives us more on the system
07:27 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/34042-vanilla-dev-installation-fails-at-yapps
07:27 AM IchGucksLive: Kernel?
07:27 AM fragalot: who is jeff?
07:27 AM GaryLa: Just following the docs verbatim. 3.4.55
07:27 AM GaryLa: Specifically: Linux CNC 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 3.4.55-4 linuxcnc i686 GNU/Linux
07:28 AM Loetmichel: IchGucksLive: i have seen a 50kg steel block flying across a big production hall, impacting the "master booth" wall, destroying the phone on the masters desk, riccocheting behind him from the concrete wall and making another hole on the ohter side of the master into the booth wall.
07:28 AM Loetmichel: ... it was on a biiiig horizontal grinder which had a faulty magnet connection
07:28 AM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: this things happen on lathe very offen
07:29 AM IchGucksLive: on grinders offen the stone breaks
07:29 AM GaryLa: My opinion: generally speaking the lathe is *the* most dangerous tool in the shop.
07:29 AM fragalot: GaryLa: wrong. you are.
07:29 AM Loetmichel: i think he had some brown stains in his trousers afterwards
07:29 AM fragalot: the lathe only comes in second
07:30 AM gloops: worst thing i saw was a surface grinder wheel explode
07:30 AM IchGucksLive: GaryLa: Why are you going with selfcompile insted using the well working DVD instal
07:30 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: diameter 450mm
07:30 AM GaryLa: I need to modify some parport stuff for a PCB I made.
07:30 AM fragalot: gloops: it's worse on a bench grinder where you're typically standing in the line of fire
07:31 AM GaryLa: I've compiled this before -- just prior versions. I think something has changed. I checked yapps and I appear to have the latest.
07:31 AM gloops: well it rattled the roof about 40ft above - the wheel wasnt that big Ichs
07:31 AM IchGucksLive: GaryLa: you know you can connect al pins to all in out and whatever signal on Standard install
07:32 AM GaryLa: Yes. I've used HAL in a variety of ways, it's very powerful.
07:32 AM gloops: fragalot yes that would be an interesting moment
07:33 AM IchGucksLive: GaryLa: its the lineending your Error
07:33 AM Loetmichel: gloops: first time on the lathe (i was 13) i managed to puncture the roof above... mounted a 10mm * 500mm brass bar in the chuck without any support and switched on the lathe at 2400 RPM ;)
07:33 AM IchGucksLive: GaryLa: did you alredy modyfied it
07:34 AM GaryLa: I figured it was simple. Any idea what file? I don't see 'halcompile' in either makefile or makefile.inc
07:34 AM IchGucksLive: make shoudt tell you the linenumber
07:34 AM gloops: Loetmichel the grinding wheel exploded on start up - straight back after lunch break, it was suspected someone had wound the work tight to the wheel but nothing came of it, kid wasnt injured badly
07:35 AM GaryLa: The only output was 'make: yapps: Command not found make: *** [objects/hal/utils/halcompile.py] Error 127' (On two lines)
07:36 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: make won't give you any line numbers?
07:36 AM Loetmichel: the steel block that flew off the grinder (above) did so because of a faulty magnet wire/switch
07:36 AM GaryLa: I'll run it again right now.
07:36 AM fragalot: only if there is a syntax error in the makefile, but not if there's a problem that causes the target to miscompile
07:36 AM Loetmichel: the stone catched the edge and propelled it across the workshop
07:36 AM fragalot: GaryLa: this may be a stupid question, but do you have "yapps" installed?
07:36 AM GaryLa: Apparently.
07:37 AM XXCoder: Loetmichel: reminds me of that time there was "air blackout" and vacuum hold failed under mill
07:37 AM XXCoder: part sure flew
07:37 AM GaryLa: Odd thing is it managed to compile dozens of files and this one looked like a repeat of many before. Then - Error
07:37 AM malcom2073: Why don't machines have vacuum sensors, and estop on any loss of vacuum?
07:38 AM IchGucksLive: GaryLa: is it on the pendand xhc file
07:38 AM fragalot: GaryLa: can you do a make --dry-run and output that to a file?
07:38 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: problem wasnt the flying part. problem was the direction and inertia it had.
07:38 AM GaryLa: No line number.
07:38 AM Loetmichel: that master in his booth was "frozen solid" to his chair. arm still reaching out to the vaporized telephone in front of him
07:39 AM XXCoder: being electricified?
07:39 AM Loetmichel: and 2 holes left and right in the booth(plywood) walls and a big chunk of concrete missing from the outer wall behind him ;)
07:39 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: fear
07:39 AM XXCoder: dang that much force
07:40 AM fragalot: I'm happy to report that other than the lathe chuck nearly beheading me (and taking out a brick wall), I've not had any other incidents that could have lead to injury
07:40 AM fragalot: excluding electricity being passed where it shouldn't
07:40 AM GaryLa: 543K file
07:40 AM Loetmichel: if a cannoball sized block of steel enters you booth, destroys the phone RIGHT in front of you, then riccochees of the wall behind you and exits the booth on the other side of your desk
07:40 AM Loetmichel: ... you are bound to have some stains in your underwear ;)
07:41 AM XXCoder: indeed!
07:41 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: and people still wonder why new machines are required to be enclosed :P
07:42 AM fragalot: not that it would stop a chunk like that, but it would already take out some of the energy...
07:42 AM XXCoder: fragalot: both of a61 cell machines have windows cracked. geez wonder why
07:42 AM XXCoder: its bulletproof windows btw
07:42 AM GaryLa: I seems to have yapps2...
07:42 AM XXCoder: programmer made 1 inch em run way too fast and it broke and flew and tried to get though window
07:43 AM IchGucksLive: sorry im off till later
07:43 AM XXCoder: good thing its bulletproof, as it have taken a em-shaped bullet
07:43 AM XXCoder: other one was before my time so dunno how that one broke
07:43 AM fragalot: GaryLa: could be as easy as repacing the make recipe with yapps2 then (assuming the arguments are compatible)
07:44 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: we got some beefy 15mm steel plates around the grinder afterwards ;)
07:44 AM XXCoder: nice
07:44 AM GaryLa: that what I was thinking. I cannot find the file that invokes yapps.
07:44 AM Loetmichel: ... AND a new magnet
07:45 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: but re-used the old wiring?
07:45 AM Loetmichel: nope
07:45 AM fragalot: :P
07:45 AM GaryLa: none of the 4 makefile.* reference it.
07:45 AM XXCoder: but reused the electrons?
07:45 AM Loetmichel: of course
07:46 AM Loetmichel: no electronics on that machine though
07:46 AM Loetmichel: all old fashioned contactors
07:46 AM fragalot: GaryLa: odd; SOMETHING has to :/
07:46 AM GaryLa: what is the 'pendand' xhc file you mentioned?
07:47 AM fragalot: I did not mention anything
07:47 AM GaryLa: Oh, sorry. That was IchGucksLive
07:47 AM GaryLa: Nonetheless, I can't find any such file.
07:48 AM GaryLa: Is there a link/redirect that invokes yapps?
07:48 AM fragalot: no idea
07:48 AM fragalot: there seem to be a few mentions of yapps on github
07:49 AM fragalot: GaryLa: check src/hal/utils/Submakefile
07:50 AM GaryLa: Ok. found the reference to halcompile. Thanks.
07:52 AM Califax: Deejay: Hallo IchGucksLive kann leider nicht so in englisch. also seht mir nach wenn viel auf deutsch folgt
07:52 AM fragalot: Califax: you just missed him :(
07:53 AM GaryLa: still no sign of yapps being invoked.
07:53 AM fragalot: GaryLa: according to github it's part of the recipe for objects/%.py
07:54 AM fragalot: in src/hal/utils/Submakefile -- it seems that yapps used to be bundled but isn't any more
07:54 AM fragalot: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/commit/be22b73d4b57725a7694ed380e67a76a8a9f619f
07:54 AM GaryLa: Right. I just don't get why I can't find anything that invokes it. Is it possible that py is invoking it?
07:54 AM fragalot: line 102 of src/hal/utils/Submakefile
07:55 AM GaryLa: Good grief. The editor can't see that... time to delete a file, I see...
07:56 AM fragalot: o.O
07:57 AM GaryLa: Thank you so much finding that. I should've grep-ed the entire directory structure.
07:57 AM fragalot: glad to help
08:03 AM GaryLa: Thank you!!!
08:39 AM gloops: well made a start on my electrics box, but cant get motivated, too much else to do atm, maybe next weekend
08:40 AM gloops: have abandoned using heavy shielded cable between drivers bob and psu, using twisted pairs wrapped in copper foil - for flexibility and basically less messing about
08:44 AM fragalot: shielded cable on power sections only make sense if you can ground the shielding on both ends
08:44 AM phipli: JT-Shop - poorly chicken today - looked quite bad this morning but she's on the mend now
08:45 AM phipli: if you have issues, the main thing is to get them to eat / drink as much as you can
08:45 AM phipli: I gave her scrambled egg because they can't say no - they only get it when they're ill
08:45 AM gloops: why is that fragalot?
08:46 AM fragalot: gloops: you're trying to keep the radiation from exiting, and for that you need the shortest path possible
08:46 AM gloops: most say to only ground one end
08:46 AM fragalot: that's for analog signals
08:46 AM fragalot: or sensitive signals*
08:47 AM gloops: if you ground both ends you could start a circuit though?
08:48 AM fragalot: you will create a circuit, but to keep EMI down on high power equiptment, that's what you want to do
08:48 AM fragalot: for sensitive signals, you do not want to do this
08:48 AM fragalot: grab a long shielded cable, ground at one end, and power your spindle through it
08:48 AM gloops: the way i understand it, with 5v signals you want to stop interference getting in, but shielding power lines also stops them emitting interference?
08:49 AM fragalot: then touch the other end of the gorunding to a metal plate and watch it spark
08:49 AM fragalot: gloops: yes, things that emit (eg. power), you want to ground on both ends
08:49 AM fragalot: things that do not emit (eg. control signals) you want to gruond on ly one end
08:50 AM gloops: hmm, well with copper tape its easy enough to tape some wire in anywhere, so i could do that
08:54 AM gloops: box is in 3 sections, with metal dividers, psus in one, drivers and bob in another, vfd in the last, thought keeping the high power/noise stuff from the 5v stuff would be better
08:54 AM fragalot: certainly can't hurt
08:55 AM fragalot: this is mine at the moment https://imgur.com/a/CyDar
08:57 AM gloops: very neat yes, see to me i find it difficult to get that interested in this stuff, i cant see what all this messing about is achieving - you dont get any movement or speed or anything to watch
08:57 AM gloops: i know it IS doing something
08:59 AM fragalot: bbl.
10:09 AM fragalot: back
10:09 AM fragalot: gloops: it's not about bbeing interested in it, but it's something that needs doing, so you may as well do it properly. :)
10:39 AM Tom_L: gloops i grounded my stepper wires on both ends iirc
10:39 AM Tom_L: don't go cheap on your wire or you'll regret it
10:40 AM Tom_L: i redid my sherline once with shielded signal & power to fix a noise issue
10:40 AM fragalot: :)
10:40 AM Tom_L: it had been that way for 20+ yrs on their driver
10:41 AM fragalot: they didn't know about EMI back then
10:41 AM fragalot: or they didn't care
10:41 AM Tom_L: it's a new phenomenon
10:41 AM Tom_L: :)
10:41 AM jym: Tom_L: EMI, it's that a rock band? lol
10:42 AM Tom_L: no that's ELO
10:42 AM Tom_L: or ELP
10:42 AM jym: Ah, gotcha ;)
10:43 AM Tom_L: depending on the polarity of course
10:43 AM fragalot: nort.
10:44 AM fragalot: nirth
10:44 AM fragalot: north.
10:44 AM jym: fragalot: <-- THAT WAY -->
10:45 AM JT-Shop: phipli: recycle the egg maybe get a bigger one next time
10:46 AM Tom_L: it might come out scrambled though
10:46 AM JT-Shop: lol
10:46 AM XXCoder: JT-Shop: Tom_L video upcoming! not cnc but old house thing
10:46 AM Tom_L: we got the wind today!
10:47 AM Tom_L: i'm sure liking the looks of the NEW Kurt 4" vise..
10:48 AM Tom_L: https://www.kurtworkholding.com/dx4-crossover-vise
10:49 AM fragalot: what's so new about it
10:49 AM Tom_L: doesn't have a fat base for one
10:49 AM Tom_L: https://sep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-46537691064911/kurt-d40-50.gif
10:49 AM Tom_L: that's what it replaced
10:50 AM fragalot: i see
10:52 AM jthornton: yea look good
10:53 AM XXCoder: looks like could do side by side jaws pair also
10:53 AM XXCoder: nice
10:53 AM XXCoder: or in elast closer than before
10:54 AM XXCoder: the top seems sealed better also. the gaps is annoying with chips.
10:57 AM jthornton: I have some of these https://www.glacern.com/gsv_690 and some just like it
10:58 AM XXCoder: jthornton: Tom_L https://youtu.be/rC2O8xBUcLs
10:59 AM Tom_L: jthornton, are those pretty good vises?
10:59 AM Tom_L: i've heard of em but never used one
11:00 AM JT-Shop: yea as good or better than Paralec which is the other brand 6" standard vises I have
11:01 AM Tom_L: i like the cutout for the bolts on the kurt over this one: https://www.glacern.com/gpv_412
11:03 AM fragalot: agreed
11:03 AM jthornton: Tom_L: that one can be mounted on it's side
11:04 AM Tom_L: the one i posted?
11:04 AM XXCoder: nice
11:04 AM Tom_L: i think the kurt can too but i'd have to double check
11:04 AM Tom_L: no
11:04 AM XXCoder: yeah I see little tabs so on
11:04 AM XXCoder: *no
11:04 AM Tom_L: i've never needed to yet
11:05 AM fragalot: I typically use my grinding vise when I need to do that
11:05 AM fragalot: did it the other day to drill holes in the end of some square stock
11:06 AM Tom_L: yeah that's a plus
11:06 AM gloops: thats a lot for the money http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EU-SBR20-300-600-1000mm-Linear-Rail-Ballscrew-SFU1605-350-650-1050-nut-BK-BF12/273043069752?
11:07 AM Tom_L: gloops, i got mine like that but with square rails
11:07 AM Tom_L: was a bit more than that
11:07 AM gloops: would be better with square rails yeah
11:07 AM Tom_L: and 400 700 and 1000mm rails
11:08 AM ASRock_pc: damn pc running slow
11:10 AM gloops: running slow ASRock, got a lot happening on it?
11:10 AM ASRock_pc: ff was acting funny
11:14 AM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
11:14 AM XXCoder: well hope you guys enjoyed the video
11:14 AM Tom_L: that's not 1946 lumber
11:14 AM gloops: hey see what you mean by painting over the old paint now XXCoder
11:14 AM gloops: its like hand painted murals
11:14 AM XXCoder: yeah. so sad its covered now
11:14 AM XXCoder: Tom_L: wall is vastly newer/
11:14 AM Tom_L: i pulled some square nails outta mine
11:14 AM XXCoder: the guy who did it hid tons of problems
11:15 AM XXCoder: including the fact that water comes up in rainy days
11:15 AM XXCoder: its impossible now, with sump pump
11:15 AM XXCoder: and walls were brand new. we took it down because of damage AND no isulation at all
11:15 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:15 AM XXCoder: hey.
11:15 AM Tom_L: IchGucksLive !
11:16 AM XXCoder: anyway its now painted and covered in isulation. we are adding ethernet cables now
11:16 AM XXCoder: UTP cat6 fancy
11:16 AM XXCoder: got a box for half off!
11:16 AM gloops: is it like pre-fabricated XXCoder or poured concrete walls?
11:16 AM fragalot: cat6 doesn't matter if you can't crimp it & if your equiptment doesn't support it properly :P
11:17 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/house/1.jpg
11:17 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/house/7.jpg
11:18 AM Tom_L: did that a few years back
11:18 AM fragalot: why would you do that
11:18 AM Tom_L: i wanted a basement
11:18 AM fragalot: that looks like it was a perfectly clean room before you got it dirty
11:18 AM fragalot: :D
11:18 AM jelly-home is now known as jelly
11:18 AM Tom_L: and felt like tearing the back of the house off :)
11:19 AM gloops: there has been a dilemna here over pre 50s buildings, brick or concrete, they rarely used to build a cavity in, which means studding the walls inside to insulate
11:19 AM gloops: but now theyve brought this exterior cloaking out, bolts to the outside walls
11:19 AM fragalot: gloops: which isn't allowed on certain old buildings
11:19 AM fragalot: because "it destroys the look"
11:19 AM gloops: oh yeah you cant do it on a listed building
11:19 AM Tom_L: fragalot those walls are ~15" thick
11:20 AM XXCoder: gloops: do they have prefabs in 1946?
11:20 AM gloops: it does look pretty crappy imo
11:20 AM XXCoder: wow snow here!
11:20 AM Tom_L: i pitty the fool that ever tears it out
11:20 AM fragalot: it looks like a normal brick house if it's done right
11:20 AM gloops: XXCoder they built a lot after the war here yeah, to replace bombed out housing stock
11:20 AM fragalot: Tom_L: hehe
11:20 AM XXCoder: snow is rare, and it looks like it will be heavy
11:20 AM fragalot: 15" isn't /that/ thick
11:20 AM fragalot: quite standard here, actually
11:21 AM Tom_L: normal is 6 here
11:21 AM gloops: they are using prefabs again here a lot now
11:21 AM XXCoder: man the wood, the old ones is very different than those new ones you guys saw
11:21 AM XXCoder: can't buy stock that long for example
11:22 AM XXCoder: garage beams is 20 feet long
11:22 AM Tom_L: yeah, old 2 x 4s actually measured 2 x 4"
11:22 AM XXCoder: yeah!
11:22 AM XXCoder: still dont get why strunk a bit.
11:22 AM fragalot: gloops: prefab is quite good actually, fomr an engineering pov.
11:23 AM gloops: fragalot yes it is, when they demolished the bigger part of the old ones here, nobody wanted to leave, they were great houses
11:23 AM gloops: trouble was they used ferrous bolts - all corroded
11:24 AM fragalot: woud you have used brass bolts then?
11:24 AM gloops: i would have used bolts that could be changed with knocking half the house out
11:24 AM gloops: without
11:24 AM fragalot: hehe
11:25 AM Rab_: Stainless!
11:25 AM gloops: these news ones are brick tiles by robots, difficult to tell they arent brickwork, in fact the only way you know - the brickwork is too good
11:26 AM fragalot: ahah
11:27 AM Rab_ is now known as Rab
11:29 AM IchGucksLive: guten Abend Helihelmut
11:30 AM IchGucksLive: Helihelmut: ich sitze in Zweibrücken
11:33 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: with the motor cabels do you go alway down to the cabinet
11:34 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: shielding of the motor cables will remain intact until just in front of the VFD where I will clamp the shielding braid to the back plate
11:35 AM IchGucksLive: the closed loop motors i mean
11:36 AM fragalot: same for those
11:36 AM Helihelmut: Guten abend IchGucksLive
11:36 AM IchGucksLive: do you need extend they come with 3m cable
11:36 AM fragalot: I don't know yet
11:37 AM IchGucksLive: Helihelmut: ich bin der typ vom Sender -> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmwhCL92ZQRSVqFe3jGwJSQ/videos
11:37 AM fragalot: i'm fairly sure i'll have to extend, but that will be answered when the frame is built and I know where I'll put it
11:37 AM Helihelmut: ich habe eine frage zur Generierung von G-code
11:37 AM IchGucksLive: einfach strellen
11:38 AM IchGucksLive: Helihelmut: wenn du doppelt auf meinen namen drückst können wir auch im Querry in deutsch
11:39 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: but on your mashine setup it woudt go without extencion
11:40 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: that depends on where I can mount the cabinet
11:40 AM IchGucksLive: 3m is quite al long way
11:40 AM fragalot: the cabinet itself will need about 1m to wire
11:40 AM fragalot: the machine will likely need 1m for routing
11:40 AM fragalot: so that leaves the cabinet to be 1 m away
11:40 AM IchGucksLive: i woudt go on the backside piile
11:42 AM IchGucksLive: direct mashine mouunt
11:42 AM fragalot: I want to try and keep the Y fully open in case I want to bolt something long on there
11:42 AM Helihelmut: ich m�chte eine pic and place Maschine bauen die mit einer Kamera ausger�stet ist. Ich glaube ich kann das so auf die schnelle nicht erkl�ren.
11:42 AM fragalot: so if I put it ont he machine it would be quite high, but certainly possible
11:42 AM fragalot: and in that case, no extensions would be needed
11:42 AM fragalot: :)
11:42 AM Helihelmut: Ich versuchs nochmal ganz von vorn.
11:43 AM IchGucksLive: Helihelmut: machen einige
11:43 AM IchGucksLive: Helihelmut: die DVD enthält mehrere simulationsmaschine
11:44 AM Helihelmut: Also: Ich m�chte Parameter im G-code ver�ndern w�hrend der G-Code abgearbeitet wird und das hat folgenden Grund:
11:45 AM IchGucksLive: Helihelmut: die kamera schreibt den g-code
11:45 AM IchGucksLive: bei pick and place
11:45 AM IchGucksLive: die frage ist scara oder tripod
11:45 AM IchGucksLive: beide sind ultraschneöö
11:47 AM IchGucksLive: Helihelmut: testlauf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30C1VRfbi9k
11:50 AM Helihelmut: Ich baue eine Pic and Place Maschine . Diese Maschine nimmt smd Teile auf und f�hrt damit �ber eine Kamera. Dort wird festgestellt ob das SMD-Teil vom Vacuumheber mittig aufgenommen wurde. Wenn nicht, dann mu� der zur Zieladresse in x un oder y berichtigt werden. Zu diesem Zwech m�chte ich zwei Parameter �ndern w�hrend das Programm abgearbeitet wird.
11:51 AM IchGucksLive: Helihelmut: da wärst du bei open PNP besser aufgehoben
11:51 AM IchGucksLive: Helihelmut: das wurde genau dafür entwickelt
11:52 AM gloops: need to check out the linear bearings on these stairlifts
11:52 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/acorn-stairlift/273065431997?
11:52 AM gloops: if theyre good bearings theres a half made machine there
11:52 AM Helihelmut: Nein die Kammera schreibt keinen G-kode sondern ermittelt wie weit der Chip aus der Mitte Platziert ist. Danke das schau ich mir mal an. Tsch�ss
11:52 AM IchGucksLive: Helihelmut: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUmr1poBFmR-TTOXL692kgg
11:52 AM IchGucksLive: Helihelmut: da ist die projektseite
11:53 AM Deejay: helmut, mach mal utf8 an
11:53 AM Helihelmut: ok ich habs schon angeklickt - Danke
11:54 AM IchGucksLive: Helihelmut: das video beschreibt genau dein problem mit dem offset https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAqBzfPoEOQ
11:55 AM IchGucksLive: Helihelmut: den frame mit dem 420 HIWIN Satz und du bist bei 25Meter/min bei 0,01
11:56 AM IchGucksLive: Helihelmut: die closed loop 3000rpm motoren drauf und du bist ganz weit vorne
12:00 PM IchGucksLive: Deejay: heute nacht wird es wieder eisig
12:09 PM IchGucksLive: Helihelmut: hast du die info noch mitbekommen openpnp
12:10 PM Helihelmut: Ja habe ich Danke sch�n!!
12:17 PM enleth: I just noticed it's possible to buy canister/jug taps with a screw-on retaining ring
12:17 PM enleth: but how the hell is one supposed to install them?
12:18 PM gloops: you mean like a tank outlet?
12:19 PM enleth: yes, and I actually see the same style installed on 5gal jugs
12:19 PM enleth: they had to hold the retaining ring inside somehow
12:20 PM enleth: with the only other opening being the cap
12:21 PM gloops: yes thats always a tricky one
12:22 PM fragalot: nothing the right tool can't solve
12:23 PM enleth: I can imagine using a very long, bent wrench-like implement to do that
12:23 PM enleth: but I don't see a tool like this being sold
12:23 PM fragalot: may be DIY'd
12:23 PM gloops: you wont
12:24 PM fragalot: just like most IBC container lid rmoval tools are outsourced plasma cut tools :P
12:25 PM enleth: one time I had to install a cable gland in a spot like that, I managed to position the ring over the hole, then hold it kinda in place using one finger *through* the gland
12:25 PM enleth: but that's not going to work for a tap
12:25 PM SpeedEvil: Find a five year old with small fingers.
12:26 PM fragalot: ^
12:26 PM gloops: if you can get the nut in with the seal siliconed to it, get it over the hole, use a rod with a leg on the end to hold it over the hole, drop the male fitting over the rod and get the thread started
12:26 PM SpeedEvil: Or thread a string through the tap, looped, over a stick
12:26 PM SpeedEvil: pull the string out, tip the stick out
12:27 PM gloops: you can tighten from outside the rubber seal will hold the nut when it gets a grip
12:27 PM enleth: gloops: yeah, this is what I used to tighten the gland when the thread engaged somewhat
12:27 PM enleth: SpeedEvil: that could work
12:29 PM gloops: you can get plastic containers with bif screw on lids, like those i think they use for bodybuilding protein powder and such
12:29 PM gloops: bif=big
12:30 PM gloops: but protein powder 10kg doesnt come up with the containers im thinking of
12:33 PM enleth: problem solved, ordering this: https://8.allegroimg.com/s512/031ada/a8b4707f4c4ca1c7f58cafc3ddc8 but white/translucent
12:33 PM fragalot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUyU3lKzoio
12:33 PM fragalot: we're doomed now
12:34 PM enleth: with the tap positioned on top, it's not at risk of being torn off when not in use
12:34 PM enleth: should be fine for machine oils, acetone and isopropyl alcohol
12:34 PM gloops: http://www.home-brew-online.com/images/products/zoom/1374764447-65232300.jpg
12:35 PM enleth: gloops: not very space efficient
12:35 PM fragalot: enleth: can you not get types that come with a tap on the actual lid?
12:35 PM gloops: yes good solution enleth
12:35 PM gloops: or fit the tap to the lid
12:35 PM fragalot: actually the one you linked would work fine, lol
12:36 PM enleth: fragalot: all tap lids I found are plastic
12:36 PM enleth: and I can't be bothered to assemble my own right now
12:36 PM fragalot: k
12:36 PM enleth: those 10l jugs are cheap, very space efficient, safe when stored upright and will do the job I need them to do
12:37 PM IchGucksLive: openpnp is quite cool
12:37 PM SpeedEvil: If you're feeling lucky, you can drill the HDPE moderately undersize, apply the tap as a tap, and add some silicone
12:37 PM IchGucksLive: i thik i will make a offer to the university to build one of these demo maschines
12:37 PM SpeedEvil: it'll be fine.
12:37 PM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: ?
12:38 PM SpeedEvil: And actually take quite a lot of abuse IME.
12:38 PM enleth: I didn't want to buy the other type, with the tap on the side, as it's a spill risk if something catches and rips off the tap
12:39 PM gloops: you easily weld the plastic anyway, well not that easily with a pipe, but possible
12:40 PM gloops: as need to have hole and pipe molten simultaenously
12:41 PM fragalot: if enleth can buy a ready made one that does what he wants, why would you want to waste time attempting to weld your own fitting onto a HDPE jug
12:43 PM IchGucksLive: im off for today GN8
12:43 PM jym: enleth: I have the tool for for those jug lides
12:43 PM jym: lids
12:44 PM jym: I have a couple different ones actually
12:44 PM jym: let me take a pic...
12:44 PM jym: well, if you want one that is
12:45 PM enleth: jym: I'm quite interested in how it looks
12:52 PM jym: enleth: http://www.becksonindustrial.com/wrench.html
12:52 PM jym: enleth: They are "BUNG" lids/wrenches, not "JUG" wrenches =)
12:53 PM jym: enleth: That is the literal one I have, not sure if it's 63 or 70 thugh
12:53 PM enleth: ah, that's not quite what I meant
12:54 PM jym: enleth: Those lides have an inner pipe thread =)
12:54 PM jym: lids*
12:54 PM jym: 1/2" NPT iirc
12:54 PM enleth: molded into the plastic?
12:54 PM jym: yep
12:55 PM enleth: https://b.allegroimg.com/s512/01f537/dcca8a1b44dea75214d31788a16b - well, this is sold as a "canister tap" and has a retaining ring
12:55 PM enleth: I was wondering, how the heck does one install it on a canister using that
12:55 PM miss0r: fragalot: Hello
12:55 PM fragalot: hello miss0r
12:56 PM miss0r: hows it going?
12:56 PM fragalot: alright, managed to work on my electrical panel a bit today
12:56 PM fragalot: haven't done anything else productive, lol
12:56 PM miss0r: Is it looking good?
12:56 PM jym: enleth: https://ssli.ebayimg.com/images/g/8v8AAOSwOgdYsFwh/s-l640.jpg
12:57 PM fragalot: miss0r: it's alright at best. https://imgur.com/a/CyDar
12:57 PM jym: enleth: you just pop out the stopper, and thread in whatever you want
12:57 PM fragalot: miss0r: problem is that i'm cheap & cut corners on wire colors ^_^
12:57 PM fragalot: analog signal? meh, black will do
12:57 PM miss0r: fragalot: I think you're underselling yourself
12:58 PM miss0r: It looks nice. it would have been nice with some wire labels, thou ;)
12:58 PM fragalot: miss0r: do printed wires count?
12:58 PM miss0r: printed wires ? :S
12:59 PM fragalot: print directly on the wire insulation
12:59 PM miss0r: I guess. It can be hard to read thou :) I've always prefered thoes transparrent sleeves, with one through hole for the wire, and another to install a label
12:59 PM fragalot: I hate those
01:00 PM miss0r: ^^
01:00 PM fragalot: the label always falls out when I spec those at work
01:00 PM fragalot: I much prefer the heatshrink sleeves
01:00 PM miss0r: hehehe. They only fall out if you use them improper :] i.e. have more than one wire per sleeve. Or someone is using the wrong labels to insert into them
01:00 PM fragalot: drawback on those is that you can't make a mistake :P
01:01 PM fragalot: miss0r: I think it's a mismatch between label & the holder
01:01 PM fragalot: both came from brother, but they still don't really stay
01:01 PM miss0r: 2/3 of the installations I do need to be done yesterday, so I usualy whip up the installation with all empty sleeves on the wires, and install them later
01:01 PM miss0r: I swear by the brady ones
01:02 PM fragalot: sorry, brady is what I meant
01:02 PM fragalot: brother is the one we use for the CE labels
01:02 PM miss0r: I wonder what is wrong with the labels/sleeves you have :S
01:02 PM fragalot: and component labels
01:02 PM fragalot: dno
01:03 PM jym: enleth: I even have a real garden hose spiekt for mine... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPd4a59gls4
01:03 PM miss0r: I also love the brady eprep labels. as I test I had a label sitting on the wheel hub of my company car for 2 years - it never fell off
01:03 PM fragalot: but as one of the engineers that has to check your work; fuck you for putting the labels on afterwards making it more difficult to spot that one wire you put in the wrong hole )
01:03 PM fragalot: )
01:03 PM fragalot: ;)
01:03 PM miss0r: well, that's the thing - I don't put it in wrong ;)
01:04 PM fragalot: haha
01:04 PM miss0r: That and I do my own QC, and for others as well
01:04 PM fragalot: eprep - are those the thick ones?
01:04 PM miss0r: yeah, with the foamy backside with the glue on
01:04 PM fragalot: those rock
01:04 PM miss0r: yeah
01:05 PM miss0r: Also, they are idiot proof - the glue only starts to work properly after 20 mins
01:05 PM miss0r: so you have a chance to undo!
01:05 PM jym: enleth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JwE-sh_TWk
01:05 PM fragalot: yeah.. but after those 20 minutes.. ooh boy.
01:05 PM miss0r: Yeah. But you gotta love'em
01:05 PM fragalot: it's a love hate relationship :D
01:05 PM fragalot: "oh that english panel? yeah sorry that had to be polish"
01:06 PM jym: miss0r: ...and we hate you ;)
01:06 PM miss0r: Yeah :] I'm feeling a bit uneasy about what you've said about the wire labels...
01:06 PM fragalot: it could be because it's an older box
01:06 PM miss0r: jym: Jesus hates you, and so do everyone else ;)
01:06 PM fragalot: the only reason we have those labels is so we can do last minute changes after the panels come in from our subcontractors
01:07 PM jym: miss0r: Tell me something I DONT know???
01:07 PM fragalot: I usually just "kink" the label and it stays in fine then
01:07 PM miss0r: fragalot: I mean, I've installed 10.000+ of thoes in the past years...
01:07 PM miss0r: yeah, I do that to the labels going into sleeves forced over two wires - they WILL fall out if you do not give them some spring
01:08 PM jym: miss0r: Jeses doesn't hate me, I tip him well when doing the yard!
01:08 PM miss0r: lol
01:09 PM fragalot: miss0r: I do have to say though, this is the first panel where i've tried phoenix instead of wago.. and phoenix' system where you just poke the wire in and it grabs it automatically is brilliant
01:09 PM miss0r: fragalot: As long as you don't love thoes tape on ones
01:09 PM fragalot: the tape on ones are for maintenance only
01:10 PM fragalot: wires 1 2 3 4 in that order
01:10 PM miss0r: Yeah. But theres also the ones where you print on some tape, and wrap it around the wite
01:10 PM fragalot: ew.
01:10 PM fragalot: that may be alright if you heatshrink over it
01:11 PM miss0r: Yeah. I had to do some maintenance on a panel where it was used. It needs to be said that 99% of the panels I do are in sewage plants & simular, so the environment is quite tough. They simply unroll and land in the bottom of the box
01:11 PM fragalot: miss0r: I do have to be honest,.. I do use labels similar to that on cables
01:12 PM miss0r: The truth is ugly
01:12 PM fragalot: it's a white patch that you print on, and a 5cm long transparent bit
01:12 PM miss0r: yeah, thoes are the ones
01:12 PM fragalot: before that, we used those yellow ABC123 blocks on zip-ties
01:13 PM miss0r: I use a quite simple system. Fleximark. its a transparrent sleeve, you just use your dymo to print a label and stick it into the sleeve, and then you zip tie it to the cable
01:13 PM miss0r: I used to use thoes as well, but I found it too time consuming
01:13 PM fragalot: it is
01:14 PM * fragalot may look into fleximark
01:14 PM miss0r: Remember to use the brady tape made of vinyl, not the regular kind, they become unreadable if in the sunlight for a while
01:14 PM miss0r: s/brady/dymo
01:15 PM fragalot: don't think we have a dymo, but i'm sure brady has an alternative cartridge that would work
01:15 PM fragalot: or even print directly on those fleximark style labels
01:15 PM miss0r: true. but a handheld dymo cost next to nothing
01:15 PM fragalot: no, but all of our labels are normally automatically printed
01:16 PM fragalot: so YetAnotherPrinter is ick.
01:16 PM miss0r: hehe. fleximark also makes these ones: http://www.transmisiones.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/FLEXIMARK-cable-547x300.jpg
01:16 PM fragalot: https://www.brady.nl/nl-nl/197523/prod-breu_197523.html?cat=br01_010105 <- seems like they make 'm
01:17 PM miss0r: The sleeves are mostly for on-site maintenance, as you can do a professional job without having to go back to the office to print
01:17 PM miss0r: indeed ^
01:17 PM miss0r: I think brady has most everything when it comes to labeling, they have not let me down so fare
01:18 PM fragalot: the only thing i've been let down in by them.. well, 2 things
01:18 PM fragalot: a) you have to change the bloody ink cartridge 500 times a day because of different labels
01:18 PM fragalot: b) their "permanent" CE labels are not as permanent as they'd have you believe
01:18 PM fragalot: some of our customers manage to wipe that CE label clean
01:19 PM miss0r: nice :D
01:19 PM fragalot: I have no idea what the hell they use
01:19 PM miss0r: something pretty harsh i'd say
01:19 PM miss0r: I use a handheld brady unit 'on the road' its called BMP 71
01:20 PM fragalot: looks similar to the one we use for production
01:20 PM miss0r: It does a pretty good job. But it has two major faults: one) Print quality diminishes if the weather is very cold. two) You only get realy good print results if it is plugged into mains
01:20 PM miss0r: even with a brand new battery
01:21 PM fragalot: I didn't know it was a mobile unit :P
01:21 PM miss0r: I did a pretty problematic repair here the other day. It was on a 1954 russian made radial drill :]
01:22 PM fragalot: it certainly isn't very mobile with the big box cartridges we use, lol
01:22 PM miss0r: It had issues clamping/unclamping the hydraulic locks
01:22 PM fragalot: neat, I love those machines
01:22 PM miss0r: I had some issues understanding the russian labeling
01:22 PM fragalot: friend of mine bought the one I had at my previous job (which has been ABUSED since I left) so I made it some new gears
01:23 PM fragalot: then he toppled it over when moving it :(
01:23 PM fragalot: broke a few handles, stripped most of the wiring & cracked the motor case
01:23 PM miss0r: so I ended up drawing my own based on testing and measuring. I stupidly wasted alot of time trying to understand the drawing - instead of just doing it with 'no drawings' like I do most of the time ;)
01:23 PM fragalot: hahaha
01:23 PM miss0r: damn
01:23 PM fragalot: it's alright - I managed to fix it for him. works fine now
01:24 PM fragalot: all except the lowest gear - 36rpm
01:24 PM miss0r: My favorite gear of all! :[
01:24 PM fragalot: meh he's got a 45 too
01:24 PM * miss0r does not think its the same _at_all_
01:25 PM miss0r: ;P
01:25 PM fragalot: hehe
01:25 PM fragalot: it is for a blacksmith
01:25 PM miss0r: hehehehehe, he won't change the gears for anything then
01:25 PM fragalot: well it's either at 600 or at 45, lol
01:26 PM miss0r: He will most likely start from the top, and just grind the teeth of the gears, until he only has one gear left anyway
01:26 PM enleth: oh, while you're on the topic of cable labels
01:26 PM fragalot: he doesn't believe me when I mention drill charts >.>
01:26 PM miss0r: :]
01:26 PM enleth: have you seen anyone sell color-coded PVC cable markers?
01:26 PM miss0r: the leGrand ones ?
01:27 PM enleth: like short, pre-cut pieces of heatshrink, with numbers printed, *and* color-coded like the bands on resistors
01:27 PM miss0r: https://www.legrand.co.za/cms-assets/images/articles/CAB-3-perfect-alignment-of-label-holders-300x122.jpg
01:27 PM enleth: the ones I've seen aren't actually heat-shrink, but look pretty much the same, soft plastic
01:27 PM enleth: miss0r: no, not those
01:27 PM miss0r: well, its not heatshrink. these ones can be installed after you've mounted the wire. They are pretty sterdy
01:28 PM enleth: I hate those
01:28 PM fragalot: xD
01:28 PM miss0r: hehe
01:28 PM enleth: the ones I'm talking about are tubular
01:28 PM miss0r: In that case, I have no idea
01:28 PM enleth: if you seen one and didn't know, you'd assume it's just heatshrink tubing neatly cut up into short pieces
01:29 PM enleth: but they have digits printed on
01:29 PM fragalot: i've only seen them in long pieces to be printed on
01:29 PM enleth: obviously, they need to be installed before the wire is terminated
01:29 PM enleth: but that's OK
01:29 PM fragalot: miss0r: i'm kinda curious now what a mesa board looks like with the brady labels on there... it's quite tight
01:30 PM fragalot: barely enough room for an insulated ferrule
01:30 PM enleth: I do have the DYMO printable heatshrink tubing, but it solves a completely different problem
01:30 PM miss0r: yeah. Most of the brady sleeves take up slightly more than 5mm like 5.05mm (which starts to make a mess when you have 100 5mm terminals on a row)
01:30 PM fragalot: hehe yeah
01:30 PM enleth: those color-coded markers solve a problem of reading a wire number in a *very* hard to reach, tight place
01:30 PM enleth: where you can't read the label straight on
01:30 PM fragalot: our controllers have connectors on a 2.5mm pitch
01:31 PM enleth: don't need to, it's color-coded
01:31 PM fragalot: try getting the brady labels to look neat on those
01:31 PM fragalot: enleth: Neat idea, never seen it used in practise.
01:31 PM miss0r: fragalot: I usualy just leave a little more room, and have them alternate close/far
01:32 PM miss0r: enleth: That is what I use the leGrand labels for. how come you don't like'em?
01:32 PM enleth: https://gallery.hackerspace.pl/pictures/Bridgeport/Bridgeport-2015-06-29/img_5990.jpg
01:32 PM enleth: that's how it looks
01:32 PM enleth: miss0r: they're bulky, they catch on things, they look ugly rotated in random directions
01:32 PM miss0r: Indeed. Are you use they are shrinkwrap? Those look like the silicon tubes
01:33 PM * fragalot likes that random "3" on the right
01:33 PM enleth: probably silicon, they're *not* shrinkwrap
01:33 PM enleth: so you need a couple sizes
01:33 PM miss0r: Yeah. I know the type, let me search a sec
01:33 PM enleth: I have a sizeable collection of those now, pulled out of the Bridgeport
01:34 PM enleth: I saved them when I removed a couple circuits that weren't needed anymore when I upgraded from Heidenhain to Mesa
01:34 PM enleth: but I can't find any place to buy more of those
01:34 PM miss0r: enleth: http://www.hilltop-products.co.uk/cable-markers-identification/cable-wire-identification/cold-applied-cable-markers/cable-marker-o-type.html
01:35 PM enleth: fragalot: the only problem with them is they like to slide down the wire somewhat, or sometitmes hide under the ferrule sleeve
01:35 PM enleth: if they're a wee bit too loose for a given wire
01:35 PM miss0r: they are a pain to apply if they are the correct size... they sorta roll to an o-ring.
01:37 PM enleth: I don't complain, but it really depends on the insulation thickness you get
01:37 PM miss0r: I realy should pull my hands outa my port hole here, and get going on making the slide for my edm...
01:37 PM enleth: miss0r: yes, this looks to be it. the ones on the photo seem to be a little thick walled compared to the ones I pulled out of the bridgeport, but otherwise it's the same thing
01:38 PM enleth: kinda expensive, but worth it, I'll bookmark them
01:38 PM enleth: thanks
01:38 PM miss0r: no problem
01:39 PM enleth: maybe I'll be able to find a chinese version now that I know the prope name
01:39 PM miss0r: "quality looks chinsy.... I'll look for some chinese version instead" :D
01:42 PM enleth: there's plenty of C-type markers on aliexpress
01:42 PM enleth: but o-type doesn't even come up in search
01:42 PM fragalot: miss0r: quality looks TOO GOOD compared to what he has now :D
01:42 PM miss0r: Perhaps :]
01:42 PM fragalot: enleth: buy one size too small, freeze & bore out
01:42 PM miss0r: xD !
01:43 PM enleth: fragalot: actually the ones I have come from a 1980s UK-built machine
01:44 PM enleth: they're probably UK-made
01:44 PM fragalot: like I said
01:44 PM fragalot: the quality you have now is probably lower
01:46 PM miss0r: damnit! I'm out'a �20mm stainless A4 rod!
01:46 PM fragalot: o.O
01:46 PM gloops: are you trying to imply UK made = inferior quality fragalot?
01:46 PM miss0r: I was going to machine the main support out of that! (The part that is installed in the magnet base)
01:47 PM fragalot: gloops: https://prohardver.hu/dl/upc/2012-09/23987_brittish.png
01:47 PM enleth: gloops: but it goes down nicely with tea
01:47 PM miss0r: I hope 16mm will do
01:48 PM fragalot: miss0r: is it a magbase EDM that you're making then?
01:49 PM gloops: well, we will see, ill be making stuff soon
01:49 PM miss0r: fragalot: indeed
01:51 PM fragalot: miss0r: how does the water stay in place?
01:51 PM miss0r: Depending on the orientation: Either a putty barrier or just flood water
01:52 PM fragalot: I never thought flood would work... though I now see no reason why it wouldn't, other than make a huge mess :D
01:52 PM fragalot: neat.
02:03 PM miss0r: I wonder how hard it is to take one of these magbases apart, so I can machine a proper thread in it
02:04 PM fragalot: not that hard i think
02:05 PM miss0r: yeah. It was easy
02:05 PM miss0r: acording to the timestamp, it took me all of two minuts
02:05 PM fragalot: lol
02:06 PM Tom_L: question is, can it be re'assembled now?
02:06 PM fragalot: Tom_L: doesn't matter
02:06 PM miss0r: Tom_L: yeah :D well, mostly
02:06 PM fragalot: you can now cut a new thread in it to fit another magbase
02:07 PM miss0r: It was born with an m10x1,5... chinsy as F.. its a 210kg magbase
02:07 PM fragalot: ._.
02:07 PM miss0r: It will get a m16x1.25
02:08 PM fragalot: are you sure it wasn't 210N?
02:09 PM gloops: a decent old saw https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282846004501?, not far away
02:09 PM miss0r: Pretty sure. Its been on the shelf for a while
02:33 PM JT-Shop: dumb debian update trashed my eth0 fixed ip lol what fun finding that
02:33 PM fragalot: gloops: that's a fair deal for that price
02:33 PM fragalot: would be nicer if it had the wings too though
02:34 PM fragalot: JT-Shop: shame there seems to be absolutely no getting away from updates wrecking configs these days
02:34 PM gloops: theyll probably go daft on it, i was hoping it wouldnt get much attention being 3 phase
02:34 PM JT-Shop: yea it sucks
02:35 PM JT-Shop: at least I figured out the netgear router was being daft and replaced it with a d-link I had
02:35 PM Tom_L: why do you need 2 routers anyway?
02:36 PM JT-Shop: for wifi coverage
02:36 PM JT-Shop: otherwise I'd just have some poe switches
02:36 PM JT-Shop: break minute is up back to splitting firewood
02:37 PM Tom_L: how's the splitter workin?
02:49 PM miss0r: For no particular reason I've decided I need a new mag base :]
02:49 PM fragalot: miss0r: was I right about the 210N then? ;)
02:49 PM miss0r: I don't know. I wouldn't think so, It is rock solid
02:50 PM fragalot: well there goes that reasonable excuse
02:50 PM miss0r: But it is comming apart - I can see the segments moving
02:50 PM fragalot: could you pin them in place?
02:50 PM miss0r: When I go 200 pound gorilla on the support rod, I just installed
02:51 PM miss0r: Well, when I took it apart somethings became obvious, it is a bit too chinese for me to realy trust it
02:51 PM fragalot: haha, ok
02:51 PM miss0r: Perhaps I could just install a big washer between the rod and the base.
02:52 PM miss0r: I ended up doing an 14x1.25 thread- it doesn't leave alot of shoulder on a 16mm rod
02:52 PM fragalot: Fisso makes some really nice mag bases
02:53 PM miss0r: Are you suggesting it should be better than this internationally recognized brand 'holdTec' ? :P
02:53 PM fragalot: considering that I spent around €300 on one of their articulating arms... yes :D
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: and arm that talks?!
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: and/an
02:54 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: brilliant, isn't it?
02:55 PM fragalot: when using it to indicate my 3jaw in, it goes "nope... nope... yes.. yes.. yeyeyeyeyeyeyeeeeeeeessssss"
02:56 PM miss0r: o_0
02:56 PM miss0r: I leave you guys for 30 seconds to do an operation on the lathe, and I return to find a.. a.. I don't even know what
02:56 PM fragalot: an articulation
02:57 PM miss0r: Looks more like an auditory transcription of a mid '80 german porn scene
02:57 PM fragalot: well you're the expert
02:57 PM miss0r: hahaha
02:57 PM miss0r: Not the prightest path of my history, no
03:00 PM miss0r: Its getting late here, and I still have a boss to answer to for little over a week more, so I better get some shuteye. See you guys around
03:17 PM jym: ~~~~~ If anyone needs/uses MS-DOS and needs networking... DOS-based Microsoft Network Server http://www.windowsnetworking.com/j_helmig/dosservr.htm You will need to find WG1049.EXE elsewhere as microsoft removed their ftp server.
03:19 PM gloops: since 2000, school shootings UK-0, Germany-5, USA 212
03:29 PM gloops: despite popular belief, guns are legal in the UK, shotguns, handguns etc
03:30 PM gloops: you can get a gun illegally anyway
03:46 PM Deejay: gn8
03:52 PM jym: PCB houses charge primarily by sq inch/area, correct?
03:53 PM SpeedEvil: That is typically thebase charge
03:54 PM jym: SpeedEvil: thanks
03:57 PM jym: SpeedEvil: Any thoughts? https://dirtypcbs.com/store/pcbs
04:00 PM SpeedEvil: yes, that's one of the cheap PCB places
04:03 PM jym: SpeedEvil: ever used them or seen their results?
04:04 PM SpeedEvil: Not had occasion to.
04:04 PM SpeedEvil: Many people in ##electronics
04:05 PM jesseg: Only cheapo pcb place I've used was seeed, they were fine, but one out of the 10 on one of the batches had trace-trace short. But a different batch of 10 on a different board didn't have any problem that we know of, but we only stuffed a couple of them
04:10 PM Rab: jesseg, I've had good luck with Elecrow: https://www.elecrow.com/pcb-manufacturing.html
04:11 PM Rab: In fact I have a current order of boards waiting for chinese new year to finish.
04:14 PM Rab: Nothing particularly distinguishes them from other cheap fabs, except that 1) they don't put their reference number on the board, 2) various mask/silk colors available for no extra charge.
04:15 PM Rab: Boards turn out pretty well, I haven't had any failures and each order usually arrives with 2-3 extra PCBs (12-13 total).
04:16 PM Alkabal_: hi all any stepper motor can accept 32 microstepping ?
04:17 PM Alkabal_: i have dm556 configured correctly
04:17 PM Rab: I do pay for Shenzhen DHL (~$20) and usually get 7 calendar days turnaround (TX, USA). Otherwise it's three weeks with regular shipping, which doesn't usually fit my schedule.
04:17 PM Alkabal_: i sheach for good accel and velocity but allways have tracking error
04:18 PM jym: Rab: I only have a very simple design, but takes up around 4"x4" in area (for esthetic reasons)
04:20 PM Rab: jym, their base rate is 100x100mm which is pretty close.
04:20 PM Rab: You can also try: https://pcbshopper.com/ https://www.pcbway.com/
04:21 PM jym: Rab: dirty pcb gives me 10cm x 10cm 10+/- pcb's shipped for $16 USD
04:23 PM Rab: pcbway.com used to pull results from a bunch of chinese fabs and sort them by price, but that may have changed.
05:08 PM JT-Shop: woodshed looking much better... a few more afternoons like this and it will be full again
06:21 PM Contract_Pilot: 2 days and not flagged... wow... i have bad taste! https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/for/d/senior-school-supplies/6499492537.html
06:23 PM jdh: is that your ad?
06:25 PM Contract_Pilot: Yea...
06:26 PM jdh: that makes you something of a cunt?
06:26 PM Contract_Pilot: Prob not flagged waiting on DA or Warrant...
06:28 PM jesseg: got any bidders on that Contract_Pilot ?
06:29 PM Contract_Pilot: Actually sold 20 mags donated proffits to memorial fund.
06:29 PM jesseg: maybe most people don't know what those big bag candy bars are, or if they do they realize its a joke
06:29 PM Contract_Pilot: Just today.
06:30 PM jdh: you should send the ad to the parents, they would probably get a big kick out of it.
06:30 PM Contract_Pilot: Kindof odd how fast they set up a 501C3
06:32 PM Contract_Pilot: https://www.gofundme.com/stonemandouglasvictimsfund
06:32 PM jesseg: odd as in the application would almost have to had been submitted before the event?
06:33 PM Contract_Pilot: Yea,
06:33 PM jesseg: Maybe the IRS expedites requests for emergencies
06:33 PM Contract_Pilot: But i know that there are shelf buy now
06:34 PM jesseg: I don't understand that last sentence.
06:36 PM Contract_Pilot: Shelf Co.'s that you buy.
06:40 PM Contract_Pilot: Deleted
06:41 PM Contract_Pilot: But this one will stay... https://portland.craigslist.org/clk/for/d/conspiracy-theory-magazines/6465352109.html
06:59 PM pink_vampire: http://www.sherlineipd.com/
07:29 PM emc is now known as CNCZombie
07:49 PM pink_vampire: what is the maximum runout for a spindle?
07:49 PM pink_vampire: 0.01mm is ok?
07:50 PM Roguish: depends on what you're doing..... could be ok, could be a mile
07:50 PM pink_vampire: i want to do 3d machining in aluminum
07:50 PM pink_vampire: molds for injection molding
07:50 PM Roguish: for what? it's all relative.
07:51 PM pink_vampire: Roguish: i need very good surface finish
07:52 PM Roguish: that type of finish is usually done post-machining. like chem polishing.
08:08 PM Roguish: pink_vampire: you also need really high speed. 20k rpm or more, probably. look up the machines that tool and die makers use. find a couple of tool and die shops and look at their equipment lists.
08:08 PM pink_vampire: i think about getting a 60K rpm 1.2KW spindle
08:09 PM pink_vampire: but the runout is 0.01mm
08:09 PM pink_vampire: do you think it will work?
08:09 PM Roguish: that
08:09 PM Roguish: that may be close. but i'm not a tool maker. sorry.
08:10 PM Roguish: is that one of those 'chinese' spindles off ebay?
08:11 PM Roguish: if it is, check youtube for videos on how to true them up and reduce the TIR (total indicated runout)
08:11 PM pink_vampire: i know the trick with the lathe tool in the vise
08:12 PM Roguish: yeah, or a grinder.... or something.
08:19 PM Wolf__: is that spindle TIR going to effect much other than tool wear?
08:39 PM pink_vampire: Wolf__: i have no idea
08:39 PM Roguish: pink_vampire: try it and see.
08:50 PM pink_vampire: it is 700$ of trying