#linuxcnc Logs
Feb 16 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:35 AM ves: Linux vescnc 4.14.18-rt15 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Wed Feb 14 14:11:27 PST 2018 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
12:38 AM ves: Finally got it compiled and installed on a 32GB Sata module
12:38 AM ves: <-- Cromaglious
12:38 AM IchGucksLive: morning from rainy germany
12:38 AM IchGucksLive: Cromaglious_: did it sparkel
12:38 AM IchGucksLive: hi ves
12:38 AM IchGucksLive: ves: 2.8
12:39 AM CaptHindsight: IchGucksLive: I was just wondering if the Path tool in freecad would allow you to model a robot and simulate paths
12:41 AM CaptHindsight: looks like we just got funded to port RTAI to 4.14
12:42 AM IchGucksLive: CaptHindsight: there is a Robot module inside
12:42 AM CaptHindsight: IchGucksLive: yes, I saw, but we have different robots
12:43 AM IchGucksLive: then just export the AXIS to wrl
12:43 AM CaptHindsight: still have to play with the robot example and see what it can do
12:43 AM IchGucksLive: and build your obj wrl sim
12:43 AM IchGucksLive: its a csv script that does the DOF6
12:44 AM CaptHindsight: how accurate the paths are, etc
12:46 AM IchGucksLive: its a Float system
12:46 AM IchGucksLive: so DOT 16
12:56 AM IchGucksLive: im ooff
12:57 AM CaptHindsight: was near 50F and back down to 6F tonight
01:29 AM gloops: need a round section belt about 2 foot long, preferably that can be joined
01:29 AM gloops: seems the belt on these old scroll saws was actually a bit of string
01:34 AM jesseg: oh... ok...
01:34 AM jesseg: oh wrong window :D
02:08 AM roycroft: braid one out of leather strips, gloops
02:10 AM gloops: i think they probably were leather originally roy yes
02:11 AM roycroft: they usually were
02:11 AM roycroft: and braiding is not a difficult thing to do
02:11 AM roycroft: you can sew the ends together to join them
02:11 AM roycroft: or weave them together
02:12 AM gloops: i might try that, round rubber belt is available, would simply have to be stuck together with superglue i think
02:13 AM gloops: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/round-polyurethane-belts/3098094/
02:15 AM roycroft: that might work
02:15 AM roycroft: i was trying to give you an excuse to be all crafty
02:16 AM roycroft: i am picking up my new dust collector after work
02:16 AM roycroft: the guy is asking $175 for it
02:16 AM roycroft: my plan is to offer him $150, and then sell my current one for $150
02:16 AM roycroft: i like those kinds of deals
02:16 AM gloops: i want to restore this thing not for any real practical use, just if i dont any markets or shows i think it would be a good thing to have there, attract a few people to see a little vintage machine working, also keep me occupied instead of just sitting being a stall all day
02:17 AM gloops: dont = do
02:17 AM roycroft: is it treadle-powered?
02:17 AM gloops: yeah ill see what old leather trouser belts ive got
02:17 AM roycroft: or pedal-powered?
02:17 AM gloops: yes treadle power
02:17 AM gloops: one foot
02:17 AM roycroft: neat
02:18 AM roycroft: use leather, not polyurethane
02:18 AM roycroft: be authentic :)
02:18 AM * roycroft retires for the evening
02:19 AM gloops: ill give it a try, im not up on braiding but there is a way to braid a tube shape
02:36 AM Deejay: moin
03:44 AM Li: guys, what is the point of having driver for stepper motors? and what is the difference between a driver and controller?
03:44 AM Li: are they just different names for the same thing?
03:54 AM gloops: the driver converts the 5v signals from the computer into power for the motor
03:59 AM gloops: your cnc software, linuxcnc creates a signal to make X move from 0 to 100
04:00 AM gloops: that signal is sent through the parallel port to the breakout board which directs it on to the driver
04:00 AM Li: Is the driver and controller the same thing?
04:00 AM gloops: the signal itself is 0-5v, that cant make the motor move, the motor needs power, amps and volts
04:00 AM Li: the same question applies to cnc-controller and drvers breakboard
04:01 AM gloops: so the driver calculates how much power the motor needs to execute the signal, and releases it to the motor
04:01 AM gloops: 'controller' is a pretty general term
04:02 AM gloops: but depending on the context, yes
04:03 AM gloops: are you making a cnc machine Li?
04:09 AM gloops: the breakout board isnt a controller as such, its main purpose is to layout the parallel port in terminals you can attach a wire to, and also isolate the cnc machine from the computer
04:10 AM gloops: you could solder your driver wires straight to the parport pins
04:36 AM jthornton: morning
04:36 AM XXCoder: hey
04:38 AM Loetmichel: gloops: small machine do usually exactly that
04:38 AM Loetmichel: there are stepper driver boards that have 3 axis or 4 axis and a DB25 with LPT pinout already
04:38 AM Loetmichel: no breakput board needed at all
04:39 AM Loetmichel: breakout
04:40 AM Loetmichel: (the (in)famopus TB6560 boards for example, they even have (although slow) optoisolators on the LPT pins)
04:40 AM Loetmichel: -p
04:40 AM XXCoder: tb6560 sucjks'
04:40 AM XXCoder: it sucked so bad it affected my typing
04:41 AM jthornton: lol
04:41 AM Loetmichel: i have no problems with them. if you take care that the motor connections are firm and dont go close to absoluite macimum ratings of the chips they work fine
04:42 AM Loetmichel: they ARE however allergic to dodgy motor connections or overvoltage and respond to that with letting out the magic smoke
04:53 AM gloops: ive got some tb6600s coming, apparently they arent so bad
04:53 AM XXCoder: yeah!
04:53 AM XXCoder: I have 3 of em, works great
04:54 AM gloops: hopefully mine will too
05:23 AM jthornton: pip install motioneye
05:26 AM Tom_L: 31°F
05:26 AM Deejay: utf8 fail detected
05:27 AM jthornton: 60°F when I woke up 47°F now
06:03 AM gloops: prince charles in town today to re-ignite a furnace thats been stood a few years, 800 000 tonne a year furnace, onwards and upwards!
06:03 AM gloops: http://www.rothbiz.co.uk/2018/02/news-5917-royal-visit-as-rotherham.html
06:03 AM XXCoder: yayyy coal pollution
06:03 AM gloops: not used coal for years
06:04 AM XXCoder: yeah thought it was coal power generator
06:04 AM XXCoder: my bad :D
06:05 AM gloops: china is producing about 1600 000 000 tonnes of crude iron a year, largely with coal
06:06 AM gloops: the N furnace above uses mainly scrap iron to make special steels, using some of the greenest energy on the planet
06:06 AM XXCoder: nice!
06:06 AM XXCoder: china not so nice
06:09 AM gloops: well its easy to blame china, they dont use 16 million tonnes of iron though
06:09 AM gloops: we do
06:11 AM gloops: in a strange way though china is cutting its own throat, selling cheap cnc gear to the west
06:12 AM gloops: chinas main resources is cheap labour, by flooding the world with cnc they are eliminating their own advantage
06:13 AM XXCoder: heh I wonder if we would have cnc oversatulation of market
06:13 AM XXCoder: lower end cncs anyway
06:14 AM XXCoder: did you know theres $150 cnc router now? funny
06:14 AM gloops: easily, 10000 routers a week built
06:15 AM gloops: probably far fewer capable of industrial production, and many leaving operation every week, but steadily growing numbers anyway
06:15 AM XXCoder: yeah theres bunch of "higher end" machiens there now.
06:15 AM XXCoder: almost all routers for some reason
06:15 AM XXCoder: man do china love routers
06:17 AM gloops: not a big leap from router to mill though, the knowledge is becoming commonplace
06:18 AM XXCoder: theres $120 mini mill that kinda tempts me lol
06:18 AM XXCoder: I know its shitty but.. lol
06:18 AM gloops: i could probably cnc an old mill now easily, only been dabbling for a year
06:19 AM gloops: $120 mill you arent going to be taking in work but you will be learning a lot
06:20 AM XXCoder: yeah
06:27 AM gloops: even this needs a control system lol https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MILLING-MACHINE-TABLE-TOP-REFURBISHED-BEUT/222841599942?
06:27 AM gloops: ahh, got a reserve on it
07:31 AM gloops: thinking about a cnc wood lathe/4 axis rotary machine, you would probably be better off buying an old metal lathe and sticking motors on it
07:32 AM gloops: old metal lathe has linear bearings, screws, spindle, chuck tailstock - most of it is there
07:35 AM gloops: although..i dont know if cam software can incorporate the necessary unwinding of backlassh at the end of ever cut
07:35 AM gloops: every
07:39 AM gregcnc_: that's not a CAM issue
07:40 AM gregcnc_: though you can probably do things with types of toolpaths and in the post processor that may help a sloppy machine
07:45 AM gloops: i think it probably is a cam issue, as you need to overshoot every pass to pick pick up the lead of the screw on the return
07:45 AM gloops: if you are to use leadscrews
07:46 AM gregcnc_: not a cam issue
07:49 AM gloops: well how are you going to do that without coding for it?
07:50 AM gregcnc_: machine control handles backlash. if machine control can't handle it, then it must be handled in code, but I have not seen CAM with backlash comp
07:50 AM gloops: im not sure how backlash compensation works in linuxcnc, so does that unwind the backlash on every change of direction?
07:51 AM gregcnc_: yes all machine controls do it that way since the beginning
07:51 AM gloops: so that is basically all it needs then
07:51 AM gregcnc_: which is why it's not a cam issue
07:51 AM gloops: why dont people like using backlash compensation?
07:51 AM gregcnc_: because it indicates machine problems
07:52 AM fragalot: the CAM operator should not be the one to implement physical machine phenomena
07:52 AM gloops: that may be so, but is the cut affected?
07:53 AM fragalot: gloops: the machine controller (eg. linuxcnc or fanuc or whatever) should be taking care of any backlash compensation
07:53 AM gregcnc_: yes, but you have to understand how mill vs lathe and why
07:53 AM fragalot: there is no reason to try todo this in CAM.
07:53 AM gregcnc_: CNC service tech told my father never to change backlash settings no matter how hosed the backlash is
07:54 AM gloops: fragalot that might be correct cnc etiquette lol, i dont suppose it really matters where it takes place, youre just adding x mm to every pass
07:54 AM gregcnc_: over time the biggest problem is that backlash because variable over the travel
07:54 AM gregcnc_: becomes
07:55 AM fragalot: gregcnc_: I wonder if advanced cnc controllers use a backlash table
07:55 AM gregcnc_: no
07:55 AM fragalot: where you can "map" the wear
07:55 AM gregcnc_: maybe if you have scales
07:55 AM gloops: well that becomes screw mapping, which also applies to ballscrews
07:55 AM fragalot: if you have scales, backlash is a non-issue
07:55 AM fragalot: sorry, a "non-issue" .. the quotes are important.
07:56 AM gregcnc_: maybe
07:56 AM gloops: for a small machine using steppers, physical backlash prevention, pre-loading or whatever, places extra burden on the motors
07:56 AM Rab: I believe aggressive backlash compensation can cause the machine to "hunt" in scenarios where the axes aren't consistently loaded from one direction.
07:57 AM gregcnc_: correcting for bad machine condition with backlash doesn't always work
07:57 AM gloops: you are not going to drive a dovetailed lathe with its original leadscrews and springs using small steppers
07:57 AM gregcnc_: so size them correctly
07:58 AM gregcnc_: that's the biggest issue with cnc, properly spec'd axis drives
07:58 AM fragalot: that's why I just over-specced
07:58 AM fragalot: i'd rather pay too much once, than not quite enough twice
07:59 AM gloops: well the economics plays a part, the idea of converting an old machine is to save money
07:59 AM gregcnc_: sure, but if it has to do it's intended job, it must be done correctly
07:59 AM gloops: the motor size is however an inevitable cost
08:01 AM SpeedEvil: It's not inevitable.
08:01 AM gregcnc_: i did servos with gecko drives when I built my mill 10+ years ago. i'm so glad i did
08:01 AM gloops: unavoidable then
08:01 AM SpeedEvil: It's tradeable with control strategy and speeds.
08:01 AM gregcnc_: now I have two Emco CNC with steppers in them
08:01 AM Rab: Like, for positioning to a set of coordinates, the load and backlash are very predictable. But cutting can create forces in both directions, and compensating for a loose machine becomes a complex closed-loop problem. Compensation might then introduce artifacts affecting cut.
08:01 AM sync: the preload does not change the drag of a ballscrew all that much
08:02 AM gregcnc_: they also work but were designed properly
08:02 AM gloops: speed is only negotiable to a certain extent
08:02 AM sync: the quality of the wipers does quite a lot
08:02 AM gloops: there comes a point when the machine is too slow to be practica;
08:02 AM gregcnc_: sure, but that is just part of machine design
08:04 AM gloops: you either set out with a set of specs for feed and cut etc, or you set out with a budget and get whatever feed you end up with
08:05 AM gloops: if its too slow - you wasted your money and time
08:05 AM gregcnc_: some due diligence is worth the effort
08:08 AM gloops: well it is something worth pondering, you can pick up an old lathe here for £100, lot of ready made motion and drive there, if you can utilise it
08:09 AM gregcnc_: this would be fun in the garage http://inv.pridemach.com/q/webinv/015870=p,,,,a,,,20286364
08:10 AM gloops: how much? 10k?
08:10 AM gregcnc_: 20
08:11 AM gloops: havent got it
08:11 AM gregcnc_: though you can buy older robodrills for 10k sometimes
08:13 AM gloops: meanwhile in the scrapyard at the end of the universe - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bridgeport-Milling-Machine/332551740267?
08:18 AM sync: 20k is not bad for that thing
08:18 AM sync: relatively small tho
08:19 AM gregcnc_: i can't remember what they are new, but 8 tools and 5k spindle is a bit limited
08:21 AM sync: it is but as a 2nd op machine they are probably ok
08:25 AM gloops: this is also a machine with potential https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Edgwick-horizontal-milling-machine/173160779488?
08:25 AM gloops: 200 quid, its nothing
08:25 AM gregcnc_: well the floor it sits on won't be stolen for sure
08:25 AM FinboySlick: gloops: At least it doesn't have any vices, it should be a perfect machine ;)
08:27 AM gloops: its even got handlebars
08:27 AM gloops: you can can hold on while its ploughing 2mm off with 0 vibration
08:32 AM gregcnc_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYpD9oyLUvo
08:33 AM gloops: its only ally though gregcnc
08:33 AM gregcnc_: ductile iron
08:35 AM gloops: not much harder
08:37 AM gregcnc_: check MRR and you'll see why scrap iron is scrap
08:38 AM gregcnc_: besides what is designed with straight lines anymore?
08:40 AM FinboySlick: gregcnc_: What is it exactly? First thought was hydrolics channels like in an auto transmission but I'm not sure.
08:40 AM gloops: any surface
08:40 AM gregcnc_: idk, just a video that i remember
08:41 AM gregcnc_: who runs anything on a machine without a toolchager anymore?
08:41 AM gloops: no debate really over whether horizontal spindle is better for surfacing
08:41 AM gloops: flat, curved whatever
08:43 AM gloops: gears
08:43 AM gregcnc_: gears?
08:44 AM gloops: yes, you wouldnt choose a vertical spindle to cut gears
08:44 AM gloops: or hob gears
08:45 AM gregcnc_: how does that relate to 2mm cuts?
08:45 AM gloops: <gregcnc_> besides what is designed with straight lines anymore?
08:46 AM FinboySlick: gloops: Yeah, even my machine ways are curved ;)
08:46 AM gregcnc_: i mean pearts you'd run in a machining center vs a scrap iron horizontal
08:48 AM Li: gloops: Sorry I was away, Yes I'm trying to make my own first small cnc
08:49 AM gloops: oh excellent Li, hope it goes well
08:50 AM gloops: gregcnc these old machines are not scrap really, this class of machines are responsible for the world as we know it
08:50 AM gloops: built when britain ruled the world of course
08:50 AM gregcnc_: they look nice in museums
08:50 AM gregcnc_: or if you have a working museum shop?
08:51 AM fragalot: gregcnc_: those are some agressive cuts in that YT clip
08:51 AM gregcnc_: I get it, but the potential for such a machine is limited today
08:51 AM gloops: nothing has changed much in machining, they still function in cartesian space
08:51 AM gregcnc_: yes it has dramatically changed
08:51 AM gloops: only the operator has changed
09:04 AM sync: so you still machine stuff with carbon steel cutters and spindles slow as molasses?
09:05 AM gloops: personally yes i do
09:05 AM gloops: you cant beat good hss for a nice finish
09:05 AM fragalot: HSS != carbon steel
09:05 AM gloops: yes it does fragalot
09:05 AM * fragalot gives up and walks away
09:06 AM gloops: i mean, i dont want to say anything here, i am not an expert on cnc or electronics, but i was born and bred in the global hub of engineering and steel making you know
09:06 AM gregcnc_: gloops in a job or production shop?
09:07 AM gloops: gregcnc no, just personal use
09:07 AM fragalot: gloops: when sync said "carbon steel", he meant the high-carbon steel that was used prior to HSS being popular
09:07 AM fragalot: HSS and carbon steel are wildly different
09:07 AM gregcnc_: a file would even work if you have the time?
09:07 AM gloops: he didnt say that
09:07 AM fragalot: it was implied.
09:08 AM gregcnc_: what sync was asking is if you use such machinery to make money in 2018
09:09 AM gloops: well, miss0r seems to be embarking on a new venture using mainly manual machinery, yes you can easily still turn those machines to profitable use
09:10 AM gloops: on the basis of - local, one off, versatile
09:10 AM gregcnc_: it's possible, yes, not easy and any crappy cnc is ahead of the games
09:10 AM Rab: <gloops> gregcnc these old machines are not scrap really, this class of machines are responsible for the world as we know it
09:10 AM gregcnc_: i know i do it
09:10 AM Rab: It feels wicked to point out that rocks and sticks had their place as well. ;)
09:11 AM gloops: Rab all technology is accumulative, standing on the shoulders of giants etc, the cnc is just one small step forward from the bridgeport of old
09:12 AM gloops: it embraces 98% of the bridgeport in its design
09:12 AM sync: gloops: I very much said that
09:12 AM fragalot: gloops: I'm not sure if miss0r's CNC with a 22kW spindle counts as a manual machine.
09:12 AM gloops: sync when you say 'carbon steel' to a sheffielder it doesnt really mean that much
09:12 AM gloops: all steel has carbon content
09:13 AM sync: lad
09:13 AM gloops: thats why it isnt pig iron
09:13 AM sync: you can twist it all you want
09:13 AM gregcnc_: just like a modern car embraces all of what benz envision in 1880's
09:13 AM gloops: fragalot ask him which he uses most
09:14 AM fragalot: he's not in the manufacturing business though, is he?
09:14 AM fragalot: he's in the maintenance / service / construction business as far as I can tell
09:14 AM gloops: nobody said we were talking about manufacturing
09:15 AM gregcnc_: oh now it's hobby only
09:15 AM gloops: no, i said you can make profit with manual machines
09:15 AM fragalot: nobody is going to argue that
09:15 AM fragalot: you can make a profit with nipple tassles too if you use them right
09:16 AM gloops: is that a proposition fragalot ?? lol
09:16 AM fragalot: what started this discussion was the statement that "machining has not evolved"
09:16 AM fragalot: and that, is quite the misconception
09:16 AM fragalot: it's evolved in every single aspect
09:17 AM gloops: <gloops> nothing has changed much in machining, they still function in cartesian space
09:17 AM fragalot: machines have become faster, more rigid, workholding has improved, tooling has made HUGE leaps,..
09:18 AM gloops: what CAN change about moving a cutter through xyz?
09:18 AM fragalot: speed.
09:18 AM fragalot: accuracy at those speeds
09:19 AM fragalot: spindle orientation, rigid tapping or even thread milling
09:19 AM gloops: youre still doing the same thing though, its a faster more accurate bridgeport
09:20 AM fragalot: well planes still have wings too, but I think if you'd ask the wright brothers if anything significant has changed....
09:20 AM gloops: nothing has changed much in the principles dictating aerodynamics
09:22 AM gloops: this is why so often you see an old machinist quickly pick up cnc, while a cnc machinist struggles to grasp manual machining
09:22 AM Rab: I believe the machine tool market has changed, in that a historically reliable fit, finish, and performance are no longer available at the same price point. There's a gulf between bad stuff which is really cheap, and good stuff which is really expensive. I think that supports gloops's point to an extent.
09:23 AM * SpeedEvil wonders if that's actually true.
09:23 AM fragalot: good tooling has never been "really cheap" though, we were just used to paying more.
09:23 AM Rab: And makes a vintage machine somewhat more valuable than scrap, for its originally intended application.
09:23 AM gloops: how many of you can grind a tool
09:23 AM fragalot: I can, but with cutter prices vs labor rates these days, on a lot of them I no longer bother.
09:25 AM gloops: rake angle? whats that, im cutting threads i need a 60 degree insert
09:25 AM SpeedEvil: http://www.lathes.co.uk/monarch/page2.html Monarch 10ee. 'In 1946 the base price was $4,194' This is about equal to 40K today.
09:25 AM gregcnc_: hah look at threading inserts
09:25 AM SpeedEvil: Can you get better than a 10ee for 40K today? I suspect you can.
09:26 AM Rab: SpeedEvil, a powerful counterpoint.
09:26 AM fragalot: one of the major differences between cnc operators going to manual machines; is that most modern cnc machines are so incredibly good at hiding their flaws.
09:26 AM SpeedEvil: https://www.tormach.com/product_15l_slantpro.html
09:26 AM SpeedEvil: Base price 10K
09:26 AM fragalot: whilst on manual machines, you have to get to know that machine
09:26 AM SpeedEvil: That's not in any way less that I can see remotely less than a 10ee
09:26 AM gregcnc_: the comment that a 60 year old machine has "potential" is what started it
09:27 AM fragalot: know where the bed is worn down more, where you need to leave that 1 or 2 thou extra to compensate for the taper
09:27 AM gregcnc_: it has potential, sure but ti's extremely limited compared to what is possible today
09:27 AM skunkworks: Get off of my lawn!!
09:27 AM gregcnc_: you have grass? isn't it snow now or did it all melt?
09:28 AM Rab: Is Tormach considered "good"? I've heard complaints about lightweight castings, QC and longevity issues. Are people using the machines beyond their performance envelope?
09:29 AM gregcnc_: tormach is entry level
09:29 AM skunkworks: you would want to ask that question on cnczone.. I think there is a big following there.
09:29 AM gregcnc_: some people do a very good job with them
09:30 AM fragalot: it's not because they're entry level that they aren't good machines, skunkworks :)
09:30 AM fragalot: but they ARE entry level.
09:31 AM gloops: you can still pay good money for a manual machine https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dean-Smith-Grace-DSG-Gap-bed-centre-Lathe-Type-30x75/391976000755?
09:31 AM gloops: relatively small, but still, that is quite simply the rolls royce of manual lathes
09:31 AM gregcnc_: large machines are in a category of their own
09:32 AM skunkworks: I don't understand people spending gobs of money for a manual machine when you can get an old cnc for way les
09:32 AM skunkworks: less
09:32 AM gloops: IF you can find an operator equal to the machine you can make anything with that
09:32 AM gregcnc_: some machines don't actually sell for that kind of money
09:33 AM gloops: skunkworks because for many applications cnc isnt appropriate
09:33 AM fragalot: a lot of machines don't
09:36 AM skunkworks: I don't understand that.
09:37 AM gregcnc_: there is certainly work that can be done in manual machines
09:40 AM gregcnc_: what's for breakfast?
09:41 AM gloops: skunkworks supposing someone turns up with a large shaft with a box thread and says - i need a new nut for thid
09:41 AM gloops: this
09:42 AM gloops: cnc has no advantage there
09:42 AM gregcnc_: measure thread write program
09:42 AM gloops: a centre lathe turner will make that quicker than you can draw ir
09:43 AM gloops: and better
09:43 AM gregcnc_: better?
09:43 AM gloops: yes, hes got the shaft
09:43 AM gregcnc_: i don't see the difference
09:44 AM Li: 4
09:44 AM gloops: its that x factor isnt it, you can make a fit from measurements, but so often a trial fit makes all the difference
09:45 AM gregcnc_: not at all
09:45 AM gloops: always gregcnc and you know it haha
09:45 AM gregcnc_: parts are made to prints all day long everyday
09:45 AM gloops: yes you will get a fit
09:46 AM gregcnc_: exactly, per design
09:46 AM gregcnc_: if the fit needs ot be better all it out
09:46 AM gregcnc_: call
09:46 AM gloops: but not the best possible fit
09:46 AM skunkworks: I rarely draw anything. But you are also talking lathes.. that is the only thing we have manual still - a monarch 10EE and a older nebel... we got rid of our manual mill (brown and sharp)
09:46 AM gregcnc_: best possible?
09:46 AM gregcnc_: if you want micron tolerances put them on the print
09:48 AM gloops: its that je ne sais quoi gregcnc
09:48 AM gloops: to be able to try the but and say - this needs another thou off
09:49 AM gloops: this needs a very light buffing
09:49 AM gregcnc_: and that can't be done on cnc?
09:49 AM gloops: but = nut
09:49 AM gregcnc_: it's done all the time
09:49 AM gloops: not with any appreciative difference in time or cost
09:49 AM gregcnc_: maybe
09:50 AM gregcnc_: but the CNC can be used to make more money and if floor space has value....
09:51 AM gregcnc_: I like manual turning did quite a bit recently and sure some thing seems easier.
09:52 AM gregcnc_: I now have CNC turning and holy crap it's nice, even for one off.
09:55 AM gloops: well, i can turn a farmhouse table leg in about an hour on the wood lathe, it would probably take as long in the cnc wood lathe i will build
09:56 AM gloops: i wouldnt like to turn table legs manually for a living, but cnc them - yeah ill give that a go
09:58 AM skunkworks: This is sort of along the lines of - 'I want to cnc may lathe/mill but still want to keep the knobs..' Most everyone comes back saying - I thought the same thing. I never use the knobs though.
10:01 AM gloops: originally i said it was worth thinking about cncing an old manual lathe rather than trying to make one
10:01 AM Alkabal__: hi all
10:01 AM gloops: hello
10:01 AM Alkabal__: do you know why i have strange value after homing
10:02 AM Alkabal__: (simulated by pressing switch on my bench)
10:02 AM gloops: what is strange about the values?
10:02 AM Alkabal__: i have set home = 0 home_offset =0 home_gnore_limits =yes index = no
10:03 AM Alkabal__: min limit 0 max limit 404
10:03 AM gloops: and what happens?
10:03 AM Alkabal__: and after homing display is Z = 20
10:03 AM Alkabal__: for X i have min = -4 max = 100 and after homing value X = 14.069
10:04 AM Alkabal__: i think value need to be Z=0 and X=0
10:05 AM Alkabal__: or other value selected in config file
10:05 AM Alkabal__: the value obtained not equal to any value set in my config
10:05 AM Alkabal__: i'm in mm
10:07 AM gloops: latch velocity =?
10:12 AM Alkabal__: HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 10
10:12 AM Alkabal__: HOME_LATCH_VEL = -10
10:12 AM Alkabal__: HOME_FINAL_VEL = 8
10:12 AM Alkabal__: this setting is for speed or distance amount ?
10:13 AM Roguish: _VEL ==== velocity
10:13 AM Alkabal__: so this is speed
10:13 AM Alkabal__: ok this is what i think thanks
10:13 AM Alkabal__: need to slow ?
10:14 AM Roguish: RTFM http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini-homing.html
10:18 AM gloops: there is a risk in the final stages of homing that the switch change can be overshot, if the speed is high, try latch/final of 1.5 and see if any change
10:18 AM gloops: search velocity is fine, thats just to find the switch
10:20 AM Alkabal__: ok thanks all
10:20 AM gregcnc_: gloops photo of such a leg and why would cnc be so slow
10:23 AM gloops: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ad/54/8f/ad548f8c3fdaec4c1b6aecaeb0be09b3.jpg
10:23 AM gloops: lot of waste to remove
10:24 AM gregcnc_: as long as spindle power isn't a factor CNC should be much faster
10:25 AM gloops: well, i suppose it depends on the cnc machine yes
10:26 AM roycroft: dang
10:26 AM roycroft: there's a bridgeport mill with vise and phase converter for sale on the coast for $2500
10:26 AM roycroft: and i'm short on cash right now
10:28 AM Alkabal__: same issue
10:28 AM Alkabal__: allways have some offset
10:29 AM gloops: Alkabal__ what happens if you set HOME 50
10:29 AM Alkabal__: with other setting i obtain X = 85.931 in place off 100 (100-85.931 = 14.069=
10:30 AM Alkabal__: Z = 420 in place of 400
10:30 AM gloops: hmm
10:30 AM Alkabal__: a friend says chesk corrdinates in UI
10:31 AM Alkabal__: look for the machine coordinates
10:31 AM Alkabal__: not the relative / work coordinates
10:31 AM Alkabal__: in the UI
10:31 AM gregcnc_: homeoffset defines that
10:31 AM gloops: have you got limit switch set as well?
10:31 AM Alkabal__: allxays have a diference Z + 20 X + or - 14.069
10:31 AM Alkabal__: i hope
10:32 AM gregcnc_: which coordinate system is active?
10:34 AM Alkabal__: RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE = G18 G21 G90
10:34 AM gregcnc_: which gui are you using?
10:35 AM Alkabal__: Cetus and machineface
10:36 AM gregcnc_: check on MDI
10:37 AM skunkworks: you most likely have an offset applied to one or more of the offset systems. You need to zero each one out. You could do it through gcode - as I don't know machinekit. Check out G10 and G91 in the gcode manual.
10:37 AM skunkworks: * g92
10:37 AM skunkworks: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/ja/html/gcode/coordinates.html
10:41 AM gregcnc_: perfect manual turning work for larger lathe https://www.instagram.com/p/BfPKs2dghsR/
10:43 AM Alkabal__: i think you are right i can view X Z offset G54
10:43 AM Alkabal__: but why thez are initialised nefore start
10:44 AM gregcnc_: whoever made the download didn't zero them?
10:45 AM skunkworks: Alkabal__, they are part of your var file - if they get set - they stay through restarts.
10:46 AM Alkabal__: oh
10:47 AM Alkabal__: stupid as i am
10:49 AM Alkabal__: thanks a lot
10:51 AM gloops: well, you know a little more Alkabal__, all part of the process
10:59 AM Alkabal__: why G10 L2 L20 are not volatil ?
11:00 AM Alkabal__: G10 L1 seems to not work
11:00 AM gregcnc_: so you can power down machine and not loose offsets, continue work
11:00 AM gregcnc_: try G10 L2 P1 X0. Y0.Z0.
11:01 AM gregcnc_: P1 IS G54
11:02 AM Alkabal__: yes i know
11:02 AM Alkabal__: but i don't understand why this offset is saved after reboot
11:03 AM gregcnc_: so you dont' have to find your work offsets
11:03 AM gregcnc_: it's normal
11:03 AM gregcnc_: in all CNC
11:03 AM gloops: Alkabal how did you config you machine from the beginning?
11:04 AM gloops: stepconfig?
11:04 AM gregcnc_: G10 L1 not working how?
11:04 AM gregcnc_: I misread earlier
11:06 AM Alkabal_: i don't show update DRO after use G10 L1 X20
11:06 AM Alkabal_: change nothing to DRO
11:06 AM Li: is it correct to phrase the question like which driver is better TB6560 or TB6600?
11:06 AM gregcnc_: you must call G43 properly to apply tool offset
11:06 AM Li: if so which one is better
11:07 AM Alkabal_: mistake sorry
11:07 AM Alkabal_: L1 is tool
11:07 AM gregcnc_: read G43
11:07 AM gloops: Li yes that is phrased correctly, tb6600 is better
11:07 AM Li: thanks gloops
11:08 AM Alkabal_: thanks but i check later for tool lool
11:08 AM Li: then I go ahead and order tb6600
11:08 AM Alkabal_: for now i'm not ready for that
11:08 AM Alkabal_: but my lathe have a tool changer so is planned to study this
11:09 AM gregcnc_: this is lathe?
11:09 AM Alkabal_: yes
11:09 AM gloops: i though the last of the tb6560 had already gonr
11:10 AM Alkabal_: X Z and i like to use A for turret
11:10 AM Alkabal_: drived with stepper
11:10 AM gregcnc_: on lathe tool offsets are applied with toolchange txxxx
11:11 AM gregcnc_: but radius only with G41/42
11:12 AM Alkabal_: another big work for understanding all
11:13 AM Alkabal_: this is not really for me i have worked on smoothiboard before try linuxcnc/machinekit
11:13 AM Alkabal_: and this is really more harder with linux
11:15 AM Alkabal_: i'm close to finalise wirering and try first moving attempt with stepper and after try encoder for spindle, for now only work on the bench but i think now this is the next step, i have working home/spindle PWM to DAC/control relay mist flood
11:16 AM gregcnc_: which lathe are you working on?
11:16 AM Alkabal_: cortini h105s
11:16 AM Alkabal_: small lathe
11:17 AM Alkabal_: same as this http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop-machines/238354-updating-old-meccanica-cortini-lathe-mach-3-a-2.html
11:17 AM fragalot: what is it with movies continually going wider in aspect ratio
11:18 AM fragalot: blimmin' 55" 16:9 flatscreen and half of it's a black border on top & bottom
11:18 AM gloops: very uncommon lathe Alkabal
11:19 AM Alkabal_: yes i have see but this is a very beautifull lathe
11:19 AM gloops: it is questionable whether these scare machines should be converted
11:19 AM Alkabal_: and is like a new
11:20 AM Alkabal_: don't understand correctly
11:20 AM gregcnc_: if you can find a buyer who will pay enough to buy what you need, let them come get it, otherwise do what you need
11:20 AM gloops: never mind, it id already too late lol
11:20 AM Alkabal_: you think is not a good choice ?
11:21 AM gloops: some people think these rare machine should be preserved
11:21 AM gregcnc_: i assume yours was CNC to begin with?
11:21 AM Alkabal_: yes full cnc
11:21 AM Alkabal_: and really like a new one
11:21 AM gloops: http://www.lathes.co.uk/meccanica/
11:22 AM gloops: excellent
11:22 AM DaViruz: i fell instantly in love with the surface grinder
11:23 AM Alkabal_: for me and my little knowledge cortini is close to schaublin quality
11:23 AM gloops: pics DaViruz
11:23 AM DaViruz: you linked them :P
11:23 AM DaViruz: http://www.lathes.co.uk/meccanica/img4.jpg
11:23 AM gregcnc_: it looks tiny
11:24 AM gloops: oh that surface grinder yes
11:24 AM gloops: surface grinders are very loveable machines
11:24 AM IchGucksLive: hi from germany
11:24 AM DaViruz: i've never seen a miniature one
11:24 AM Alkabal_: https://inceptionforums.com/showthread.php?1590-Updating-an-old-lathe
11:25 AM Alkabal_: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/mini-lathe/141986-cnc-software.html
11:26 AM gloops: you can mill a piece 'flat' and its ok, but then you put it on the surface grinder, and there is nothing like that finish
11:26 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: test ?
11:26 AM gloops: Ichs no not run machine today, Y driver is out of order
11:27 AM gloops: these screws are fine ichs get some bought
11:30 AM gloops: C7 screws, you know it will be around .05mm
11:32 AM IchGucksLive: ic an be up to 0,2 if you got a bad one so TEST
11:32 AM fragalot_ is now known as fragalot
11:32 AM fragalot: hey IchGucksLive
11:32 AM gloops: i am really too busy for a week or two, but will have time soon, i have total faith this is a machine of distinction
11:33 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: i did finaly made a full construction on your setup
11:33 AM gloops: i cant feel 0.2mm in these screws, i feel very little movement in them
11:34 AM gloops: ive got a spare here, no way is there .2mm in this
11:34 AM gregcnc_: how would you feel pitch tolerance?
11:34 AM phipli: JT-Shop, woo - home in daylight for the first time this year. Got to give the girls some treats before they went to bed
11:35 AM gloops: gregcnc im talking about backlash
11:35 AM gregcnc_: lead error
11:35 AM gloops: lead error will not be shown by returning to 0
11:36 AM gloops: i am not making bearings here, this is a wood router
11:39 AM JT-Shop: phipli: nice to spend some time with the girls before the retire
11:39 AM gloops: the nut turns freely along the entire thread, i dont know, minimal backlash, you tell me how that is possible if the thread has large errors?
11:40 AM gregcnc_: because backlash and cumulative error aren't mutually exclusive
11:40 AM gloops: with no variation in the fit of the nut along the thread?
11:41 AM roycroft: over this coming weekend sunrise will coincide with my departure time for my morning commute
11:41 AM roycroft: so monday i'll leave for work after sunrise for the first time this year
11:42 AM gloops: roycroft - take camera on morning commute, might capture a beauty
11:42 AM roycroft: unfortunately there is a drawback to this time of year
11:42 AM roycroft: when i leave i travel west for a few minutes, then south for the majority of my commute
11:42 AM roycroft: but the last 15 minutes i travel easterly
11:43 AM roycroft: and that's when the sun just above the horizon, shining directly into my eyes
11:43 AM roycroft: it will be another six weeks or so before it's high enough for me to be able to block it with my visor
11:44 AM roycroft: since just as it's getting to that point we'll go on summer time and i'll have to deal with it being lower again
11:44 AM roycroft: but i am not complaining
11:44 AM roycroft: i'll take a little sun glare vs. going to work in the dark any time
11:49 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: what do you mean with a full construction with my setup?
11:50 AM IchGucksLive: the Z With moving sideway rails i did a full construct including all screws and fupp otuimise on the 1m Square set
11:51 AM fragalot: does it work well? :)
11:53 AM gloops: like a dream fragalot, like a dream!
11:53 AM IchGucksLive: yes the griund plate to be mounted on Y is triggie to get the full Z free Height and movement
11:53 AM IchGucksLive: frag iwill do a FEM analytic on it
11:54 AM fragalot: cool :-)
12:07 PM gregcnc_: gloops ballscrew engineering manuals cover all
12:13 PM phipli: Tom_L : my Surface mount meter arrived today
12:14 PM phipli: now I can work out what the mystery components are when I drop my unlabelled capacitors
12:15 PM fragalot: lol
12:15 PM fragalot: i have a bunch of hybrids that i still don't know hat they are
12:15 PM IchGucksLive: making qa Video on Helical gear
12:26 PM IchGucksLive: https://youtu.be/7oYp64b8NYw
12:26 PM IchGucksLive: helical gear in 2minutes
12:26 PM IchGucksLive: as simple as it is
12:27 PM IchGucksLive: if You know the Numbers ;-)
12:30 PM IchGucksLive: the Freecad animation is now quide advanced
12:31 PM phipli: I was having issues with the gcode generated from Freecad last time I tried to use it for CAM
12:31 PM phipli: has it improved?
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: as far as i did coding yes
12:32 PM phipli: is it yours?
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: im involved https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmwhCL92ZQRSVqFe3jGwJSQ/videos
12:33 PM IchGucksLive: the CRC is from me and pocket also most dim
12:33 PM IchGucksLive: Sim and toling
12:33 PM IchGucksLive: but the US doesent like the EU style
12:33 PM IchGucksLive: so it is not in 0,17
12:33 PM fragalot: EU style?
12:34 PM roycroft: tight shirts and jeans, fragalot
12:34 PM fragalot: ah right.
12:34 PM roycroft: we like to wear loose-fitting clothes here :)
12:34 PM IchGucksLive: the US workes on Take out srvice and EU is take in
12:34 PM roycroft: because we're all fat
12:36 PM IchGucksLive: principles of python that 'explicit is better than implicit'
12:36 PM phipli: FreeCAD is useful
12:36 PM IchGucksLive: The default mode for the post processor should produce the most explicit code and the flags should remove things to make the file smaller.
12:36 PM roycroft: i installed it a week or two ago, phipli
12:36 PM phipli: closest linux CAD I've found to the type of CAD I learnt with
12:36 PM roycroft: i've not really had any time to work with it yet
12:36 PM IchGucksLive: so now linuxcnc post produces lots of lines to get in sync with the BIG M
12:36 PM roycroft: it's quite different from solidworks
12:37 PM roycroft: i've yet to decide if i think it's good different or bad different
12:37 PM IchGucksLive: insted of clear small files redable
12:37 PM phipli: less so than autocad :)
12:37 PM IchGucksLive: its FREE
12:37 PM IchGucksLive: and you are talking to DEVELS like here
12:38 PM IchGucksLive: so it is for enduser not the full world makers
12:38 PM roycroft: being "free" means nothing when discussing features/functionality
12:38 PM IchGucksLive: then go with HyperMill
12:38 PM IchGucksLive: its the most feather one
12:39 PM phipli: roycroft, but it does when you're talking about the difference between huge budget but can't afford legally, vs. have and can do stuff with
12:39 PM roycroft: note that i have made no judgement about freecad
12:39 PM IchGucksLive: ;-)
12:39 PM roycroft: all i said is that it works differently than what i'm used to (solidworks)
12:39 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20180214-marlin-3d-printer-firmware-developer-thinkyhead-seeking-support.html at first glance I thought "help for dyslexia?"
12:39 PM IchGucksLive: abaut 15 people are on Path
12:39 PM IchGucksLive: as 1500 are on Hyper
12:39 PM roycroft: i do not have any cam software for solidworks
12:40 PM roycroft: and i am looking at freecad because it has some cam capability
12:40 PM roycroft: i would like to find a not-cloud based cad package that has integrated cam functionality
12:41 PM IchGucksLive: roycroft: Feecad
12:41 PM IchGucksLive: ROFL
12:41 PM roycroft: and if freecad can fit the bill, that would avoid my having to spend $4k or so upgrading solidworks so that i can get the semi-useful cam software that comes with it
12:41 PM FinboySlick: Aside from alibaba, anyone knows where I could source something like this: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Busbar-Grounding-Building-Earthing-System_60122078882.html?spm=a2700.details.maylikever.12.435c5e645sB32h for a reasonable price? Most 'western' sources are over 100 bucks per kit.
12:41 PM IchGucksLive: roycroft: what is your main guess to be in
12:41 PM FinboySlick: (I need four of them)
12:41 PM roycroft: if i find freecad not useful i might have to pony up the $4k whtn the time comes
12:41 PM roycroft: $4k is a lot of money
12:42 PM roycroft: so i'll give freecad a good go before i invest that
12:42 PM IchGucksLive: there are good for less
12:42 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: I don't get the dyslexia part?
12:42 PM IchGucksLive: DESKPROTO
12:42 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: not at a local electrical supply house?
12:42 PM IchGucksLive: can do full 5A
12:42 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: ever see the source for Marlin?
12:42 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: Well, nothing is local to me but what I found was pretty expensive.
12:42 PM IchGucksLive: im off GN8
12:43 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: never looked at it closely as it basically JustWorked for me :P
12:43 PM roycroft: i think i have some spare ground bus bars like that
12:43 PM fragalot: I only look at the source if I want/need to add something
12:43 PM roycroft: i don't know what i have into them, so i don't know what i'd want for them
12:43 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: however; I've been around long enough that spelling mistakes are often used as a way to protect copyright
12:43 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: ever not not not not not not (did I flip that around enough) look at the source
12:44 PM roycroft: not $1-$10, that much i know for sure
12:44 PM roycroft: i'm sure i paid at least $75 each
12:44 PM Rab: FinboySlick, the western sources use a copper bar instead of paint and pot metal, you see.
12:45 PM FinboySlick: Rab: Well, I'm not sure there's 80 bucks of copper in one of those.
12:46 PM FinboySlick: roycroft: Technically, I have suitable bars here. I could get by with just the mounting hardware.
12:47 PM Rab: FinboySlick, the insulators and brackets?
12:47 PM FinboySlick: Yes.
12:48 PM Rab: This is cheaper than $100, I don't know if you're US-based: https://www.amazon.com/Panduit-GB2B0304TPI-1-Tin-Plated-Copper-Grounding/dp/B003E9YRYO?th=1
12:50 PM FinboySlick: Rab: I need four and that's still a bit pricey. But yeah, better.
12:50 PM Rab: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Dindustrial&field-keywords=busbar+insulator
12:51 PM Rab: The insulators themselves seem to be pretty cheap. Of course these are chinese, but fulfilled by Amazon in many cases.
12:51 PM FinboySlick: Rab: That's pretty good. I think I might go for those.
12:52 PM roycroft: tin plated ones are not really necessary for most uses
12:52 PM roycroft: there are primarily two reasons for tin plating:
12:52 PM roycroft: 1. to prevent oxidation
12:52 PM roycroft: 2. to prevent theft
12:53 PM FinboySlick: Yeah. The bars I have are already plated too anyway.
12:53 PM roycroft: the latter being the biggest reason these days
12:53 PM roycroft: i prefer bare copper ones myself
12:53 PM roycroft: when i attach a new ground wire to the bus i remove the oxide layer with a bit of emery cloth and use an anti-oxidant cream between the lug and the bus bar
12:54 PM roycroft: and i never worry about it again
01:00 PM CaptHindsight: https://shop.dynatect.com/apron-covers.html
01:02 PM CaptHindsight: anyone ever come across a source for SS versions of roll-up covers?
01:03 PM fragalot: german versiosn?
01:03 PM fragalot: oh stainless.. nm
01:04 PM FinboySlick: I'd imagine they'd be expensive.
01:04 PM CaptHindsight: jah, stainless steel
01:04 PM CaptHindsight: jah
01:04 PM CaptHindsight: the whole machine is stainless
01:06 PM * fragalot would be interested in that source too
01:07 PM CaptHindsight: ah hah http://www.hennig-inc.com/aprons-and-roll-ups
01:08 PM CaptHindsight: mit dem stainless
01:08 PM CaptHindsight: and not far from me :)
01:08 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: https://dynatect.com/product/protective-covers/roll-up-covers/steelflex/
01:09 PM fragalot: oh you already found them
01:09 PM fragalot: lol
01:09 PM CaptHindsight: never even heard of them before
01:09 PM fragalot: I found the link on practicalmachinist
01:09 PM CaptHindsight: <1 hr drive
01:09 PM fragalot: more importantly; have you noticed that google has removed the "View image" button?
01:11 PM CaptHindsight: Google has been messing around quite a bit with maps and views lately
01:12 PM CaptHindsight: I have to use the user=agent switched to get it work they way I want
01:12 PM CaptHindsight: switched/switcher
01:14 PM FinboySlick: Intellectual property lawyers ruining everybody's experiences again.
01:28 PM pink_vampire: hi everyone
01:29 PM fragalot: hey pink_vampire
01:30 PM pink_vampire: hi
01:30 PM pink_vampire: how are you doing?
01:31 PM fragalot: alright, received the last part I needed to start wiring up the electrical panel
01:31 PM fragalot: took 9 trucks in total to deliver one order >.<
01:32 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: the button was there yesterday
01:32 PM CaptHindsight: right-click view image still works
01:33 PM pink_vampire: CaptHindsight: what do you mean?
01:33 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, does that show you the full image, or just Google's thumbnail?
01:34 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: it works, but not the full resolution
01:34 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: google removed the "view image" button from their image searches
01:35 PM pink_vampire: why?
01:35 PM fragalot: because getty images felt sad that they were missing out on ad revenue
01:35 PM CaptHindsight: I get the full size image
01:35 PM CaptHindsight: what happens when you try?
01:36 PM fragalot: dno, I don't use google :P
01:36 PM CaptHindsight: Images may be subject to copyright
01:37 PM fragalot: thumbnail
01:37 PM pink_vampire: i'm using bing
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: oh, left click first, then right click to view image
01:37 PM pink_vampire: much much better for image search
01:38 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: still gives me only a thumbnail
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: huh
01:38 PM fragalot: I'm searchign for "ultra HD cat" to get 4K images to try on
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: must be one of those OS + browser things
01:38 PM fragalot: doubt it
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: google maps only offers lite mode if it thinks you have Linux
01:39 PM fragalot: it works for some images
01:39 PM fragalot: it doesn't work for some others
01:39 PM pink_vampire: http://www.bing.com/images/search?sp=-1&pq=ultra+hd+cat&sc=8-12&sk=&cvid=9A3D8D816C654AB891D5CB79C1F2FF2C&q=ultra+HD+cat&qft=+filterui:imagesize-wallpaper&FORM=IRFLTR
01:39 PM fragalot: "ultra HD cat" images appear as thumnails, but "lathe" gives me the actual image
01:40 PM pink_vampire: http://cdn.litlepups.net/2016/04/16/ultra-hd-wallpaper-3840x2160-bengal-cat-cat-couple-leopard-color-4k.jpg
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: maybe your firewall blocks cat pics
01:41 PM CaptHindsight: hmm, works for me every time
01:43 PM roycroft: only ultra cats
01:43 PM fragalot: it seems to work on some images for me, but not others
01:43 PM roycroft: regular cats load fine
01:44 PM fragalot: doesn't really matter as I usually use DDG anyway
01:44 PM fragalot: but this really sucks for those days where you find a picture of a machine assembly posted onto a forum you need to see, and all you get is a "go to page" which brings you to the wrong page in a 150+ page thread :P
01:45 PM CaptHindsight: lots of those used site to host pics that later changed their rules
01:46 PM CaptHindsight: now I just see some blank grey box
01:50 PM fragalot: true
01:50 PM fragalot: but those that ARE still up are now impossible to find :)
02:02 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: wife just tried in chrome, and there open image still works.. but it doesn't in firefox.
02:02 PM CaptHindsight: figures
02:03 PM CaptHindsight: really trying to force everyone onto Chrome
02:04 PM CaptHindsight: how until each search result in FF has an extra step with an ad for Chrome?
02:04 PM CaptHindsight: how long
02:04 PM fragalot: that's why I'm forced to use uBlock & a pi-hole
02:04 PM fragalot: ads are running rampant
02:05 PM CaptHindsight: AAWWWW still using FF? Try using Chrome for a better experience
02:05 PM fragalot: want to watch a 2 minute youtube video on how to do CPR?
02:05 PM fragalot: better watch this unskippable 30 minute ad first
02:05 PM CaptHindsight: AB still works on youtube
02:05 PM fragalot: I don't like adblock
02:06 PM fragalot: you're the product
02:06 PM fragalot: ublock seems to work better too
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: I have a script that uses random VPN's and does random searches
02:07 PM FinboySlick: fragalot: You're the product regardless nowadays.
02:07 PM fragalot: FinboySlick: of course
02:07 PM fragalot: doesn't meant I want to make it easy
02:07 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: chromium
02:08 PM XXCoder: I use chromeium when site refuses to work with firefox
02:11 PM FinboySlick: XXCoder: I haven't checked if the latest firefox is affected, but you may have a lot to gain if you don't know the framerate trick.
02:11 PM fragalot: what framerate trick
02:11 PM XXCoder: whats that trick gain
02:13 PM FinboySlick: On linux, firefox (at least the 53 version) is unable to figure out your display refresh rate so it renders at a trillion frames per second.
02:13 PM FinboySlick: But there's an about:config to hard-lock it to 60.
02:15 PM XXCoder: any site that explains that?
02:15 PM FinboySlick: No. I had to figure it out myself and create a key called layout.frame_rate (int) 60
02:16 PM FinboySlick: They may have fixed that when they switched to quantum though.
02:16 PM FinboySlick: But the old layout engine would idle at 96% CPU use.
02:16 PM FinboySlick: That tweak brought it down to about 2% and it became a *lot* more responsive.
02:17 PM XXCoder: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1356751
02:17 PM XXCoder: it was removed in version 55 because its not used anymore
02:17 PM FinboySlick: Good to see it's fixed.
02:18 PM XXCoder: yeah
02:18 PM fragalot: ooo a new ToT vid
02:20 PM XXCoder: tot?
02:21 PM fragalot: this old tony
02:22 PM XXCoder: ohh yeah nice
02:27 PM gregcnc_: heh so someone thought a direct link that opened the image in a new tab was too easy to steal pictures?
02:27 PM fragalot: no
02:27 PM fragalot: ad revenue from the page viesw was lost
02:28 PM gregcnc_: if you don't know how to right click that may work
02:28 PM fragalot: the right click does not always work any more
02:28 PM gregcnc_: yes it does
02:29 PM fragalot: not directly from google
02:29 PM gregcnc_: well some sites block completely
02:29 PM gregcnc_: i just did it in both FF ang chrome
02:29 PM fragalot: not on my laptop. I just get a thumbnail on some
02:29 PM fragalot: others work
02:29 PM gregcnc_: and you click the image to give you the preview first?
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: I managed to find a few that were only thumbnails
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: just lucky I guess
02:30 PM fragalot: yes gregcnc_
02:30 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: told ya
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: :p
02:31 PM gregcnc_: ok I see one, but i don't think that was any different before. it say the image is huge but the preview is tiny and right click is small
02:31 PM fragalot: view image used to take you to the image though
02:34 PM CaptHindsight: no change in Lynx :)
02:34 PM fragalot: :)
02:38 PM gregcnc_: the ones I ran into were actually from getty, somehow the image aren't actually as big as google image says, even if you go to the page
03:03 PM gloops: well got the spars on my machine bed, another 60 holes or so drilled
03:05 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.hennig-inc.com/machine-enclosures enclosure that can cost as much as the automation within :)
03:06 PM gloops: a bulb had gone in the garage but as i finished i looked at the machine in low light, and it struck me what a magnificent thing i have made
03:10 PM Tom_L: hah
03:10 PM Tom_L: it's not something everyone can do
03:11 PM gloops: i doubt many would ever complete one of these Tom
03:16 PM gloops: i have noticed some fair vibration from the spindle at high revs, enough to rattle a wheel on the home switch
03:19 PM JT-Shop: does the shaft have any run out?
03:20 PM gloops: JT-Shop the shaft doesnt appear to have much run out, thinking about it the tool thats in it might be bent though, it did seem to have a wobble
03:21 PM gloops: ill take it tommorrow and see what its like
03:21 PM gloops: it out
03:21 PM JT-Shop: aye a wobbling tool could be a problem
03:22 PM fragalot: or an unbalanced nut
03:22 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/NqCz5ZgSIS0?t=1m14s ooouuchhh
03:22 PM gloops: the spindle is virtually new - although thats not much to go by with wantai motors
03:23 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: schadenfreude?
03:24 PM CaptHindsight: was that a drill held with a clamp or did they really bend a spindle?
03:25 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: I expected the bending drill but the bent chuck holder got me cringing.
03:25 PM fragalot: drill chuck taper probably bent
03:25 PM fragalot: good drill though!
03:26 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/PsoSRot7yPQ?t=1m24s lol
03:33 PM gloops: the steve summers videos looked promising, soon got boring though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhgF-crL9AM&t=1240s
03:36 PM fragalot: gloops: that's why youtube has a "1.25x" and "1.5x" speed setting
03:36 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight that spindle could be on an axis that gave instead of the whole spindle
03:37 PM roycroft: why don't these people do dry runs before they set out to destroy their parts and their tooling and their machines?
03:37 PM fragalot: you don't see the spindle though, so it could have been the jacobs taper of the chuck
03:38 PM roycroft: i'm pretty sure that when i start cnc milling i'll be machining a lot of air before i machine actual parts
03:39 PM fragalot: even if it only had an MC2 taper the spindle should not bend because of an 8mm drill bit
03:40 PM roycroft: i like how well that steve summers guy is protecting those two spots on the top of his head
03:40 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: dang
03:40 PM XXCoder: one facemill just disappeared
03:40 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: that will change pretty quick. i nowadays set my feedrates via "seed up until mill bit breaks, insert a new bit, 10% less feed, continue"
03:40 PM XXCoder: looks like it failed to start spinle
03:41 PM Loetmichel: +p
03:41 PM roycroft: yes, loetmichel
03:41 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: you're leaving 10% on the table though
03:41 PM roycroft: i'm sure that once i gain some experience confidence will go along with it
03:42 PM roycroft: but in those videos linked to above, some of the operators obviously had gained enough experience
03:42 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: the 10% are safety margin for the mill bit dulling over the millling operation
03:43 PM roycroft: exiting out the side of a part or having the part pop off the table can be "oops" things
03:43 PM roycroft: but some of those crashes are the result of not knowing ehat one is doing
03:43 PM roycroft: what
03:43 PM roycroft: and that's where air milling comes in handy
03:44 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: xD ok
03:45 PM fragalot: roycroft: could also be a manual toolchange gone wrong after a series production
03:45 PM fragalot: i've run a VMC that had a glitch in the toolchanger once
03:45 PM roycroft: the drill going sideways one, perhaps
03:45 PM fragalot: it ran 200 parts before, and then decided to use a haimer rather than the 42mm drill bit it was using before
03:45 PM XXCoder: roycroft: some of those reaction time is shitty
03:45 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: i managed to weld an tungsten carbide bit to a cast iron vice... thanks to not powerful enough steppers to break it off... shaft touched the side of the vice at 24000 rpm... time it took me to hit the estop it was white hot. and then the spindle stoppend and it cooled down ;)
03:47 PM Loetmichel: -> friction-welded firmly in the side of the vice
03:47 PM fragalot: friction welding is magic isn't it :P
03:47 PM Loetmichel: indeed
03:49 PM XXCoder: roycroft: some of those is clearly running unproven programs
03:49 PM gregcnc_: that gets you into trouble quick
03:49 PM XXCoder: dry run em jeez lol
03:50 PM XXCoder: why the fuck did person not stop it? https://youtu.be/PsFNeiAu04M?t=483
03:51 PM gregcnc_: that video is a test
03:51 PM fragalot: XXCoder: that was intentional
03:51 PM XXCoder: was someone talking?
03:51 PM gregcnc_: there is an original video
03:52 PM gregcnc_: this is the tormach https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTtKrQttnoE
03:52 PM XXCoder: ahh ok. what was test?
03:52 PM gregcnc_: tool life maybe?
03:52 PM gregcnc_: i can't remember
03:52 PM XXCoder: interesting
03:52 PM XXCoder: did that break tomach?
03:53 PM gregcnc_: says nothign happend in the that video
03:54 PM XXCoder: weird
03:54 PM XXCoder: so spindle was still fine.
03:57 PM gregcnc_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmvjScTx3lI
04:00 PM XXCoder: so essentally testinh tool steel
04:01 PM XXCoder: umm its so much smaller than I expected..
04:02 PM XXCoder: timw to go work later
04:03 PM jesseg: hmm the bit may have lost a touch off its cutting edge. Oh and if it's all the same to you, don't grab that glowing plug with your bare fingers:P
04:05 PM gloops: a wooden bowl making cnc presents some challenges
04:06 PM gloops: to complete maching of both internal and external radius it would take 4 axis - 2 rotary
04:07 PM Deejay: gn8
04:46 PM gloops: anyone seen archivist recently? not seen him for a few days, hope he hasnt fallen off ladder fitting a window
04:58 PM roycroft: he was here a day or two ago
04:58 PM roycroft: iirc in the late evening my time
04:58 PM roycroft: so probably very early morning your time
04:59 PM gloops: probably busy
05:20 PM Tom_L: andy hasn't been around much either
05:28 PM Tom_L: who here does rigid tapping on a regular basis?
05:29 PM Tom_L: i'm wondering if you bring the tap out a time or two to clear the chips
05:29 PM Tom_L: like you would a drill
05:30 PM gregcnc_: are you using spiral flute?
05:30 PM Tom_L: i would be if i did it
05:30 PM Tom_L: i don't have any yet
05:30 PM Tom_L: but i know to use them
05:30 PM gregcnc_: peck tapping is a thing
05:31 PM Tom_L: i'm more worried about stalling the little spindle motor than breaking the tap
05:41 PM Rab: Rigid tapping relies on feedback from an encoder on the spindle, right? So stalling would only stall the cycle as well.
05:41 PM Tom_L: that's true
05:42 PM Tom_L: i have proof of that
05:43 PM jesseg: Tapping can take a surprising amount of torque as compared to an end mill of equal diameter
05:48 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g99lUtjLfMU
05:48 PM Tom_L: that was one of my first tests doing it
05:55 PM Rab: Tom_L, tried forming taps?
06:28 PM pink_vampire: hi
06:32 PM jesseg: howdy
06:52 PM pink_vampire: hi jesseg
06:54 PM jesseg: how's it going there pink_vampire
06:55 PM pink_vampire: fine
06:55 PM pink_vampire: i did one corner
06:55 PM pink_vampire: and the second one is on the machine right now.
06:56 PM pink_vampire: i need to make 4 of those
06:56 PM pink_vampire: the mist is sooo helpful
06:57 PM Tom_L: did you get one of those cheap misters?
06:57 PM pink_vampire: no babysitter on the machine anymore
06:57 PM pink_vampire: no
06:57 PM pink_vampire: i build it
06:57 PM Tom_L: oh you made that one...
06:57 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/LdxN5NY.jpg
06:57 PM Tom_L: this cheap one works great
06:58 PM SpeedEvil: https://mars.nasa.gov/news/8310/5000-days-on-mars-solar-powered-rover-approaching-5000th-martian-dawn/ :)
06:59 PM Tom_L: once i get the coolant up the tube i can turn it way down so it doesn't cloud up the shop
06:59 PM Tom_L: and it keeps flowing
07:00 PM pink_vampire: the mister that i made is fog free
07:00 PM pink_vampire: like the fog buster
07:01 PM Tom_L: i know
07:01 PM Tom_L: i don't get any fog with this one either
07:02 PM pink_vampire: so what do you mean by "cloud up the shop"?
07:02 PM Tom_L: no coolant mist all over
07:04 PM pink_vampire: you need to set the liquid to drip at about 1 drop per second, and apply about 10 psi of air
07:04 PM Tom_L: that's about how this one is set
07:05 PM jesseg: I wonder about an airless sprayer - would it work if the liquid was being delivered at the same rate but as a pure liquid super fine stream?
07:05 PM gregcnc_: pink how do you sleep with chips all over your bed?
07:06 PM pink_vampire: gregcnc_: well
07:06 PM gregcnc_: I've seen airless type, Datron may use it
07:06 PM gregcnc_: but air clears the chips so some or a lot fo air is sometimes good
07:07 PM jesseg: good point
07:07 PM gregcnc_: that's the nice thing about the acculube I can blast the air and no fog
07:08 PM gregcnc_: to get chips out of deeper pockets with the chinaco mister garage was foggy after one part
07:08 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2AvRVU0iE
07:08 PM Tom_L: that's mostly air
07:10 PM pink_vampire: i like the aluminum wedge
07:10 PM pink_vampire: how did you make it?
07:10 PM Tom_L: ?
07:10 PM Tom_L: those are sherline strap clamps
07:11 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/XDrZJth.png
07:11 PM pink_vampire: this is what i mean
07:12 PM Tom_L: those are sherline strap clamps
07:12 PM gregcnc_: https://sherline.com/product/3013-step-block-hold-down-set/
07:13 PM pink_vampire: why is is white like that?
07:13 PM pink_vampire: is that aluminum?
07:13 PM Tom_L: yes
07:14 PM Tom_L: just like everything else on sherline :(
07:14 PM pink_vampire: the sherline body is not steel?
07:14 PM gregcnc_: aloominum
07:15 PM pink_vampire: omg
07:15 PM gregcnc_: it works
07:15 PM Tom_L: i used mine for alot of years
07:15 PM Tom_L: but i've got a better one now
07:15 PM pink_vampire: i thought that the sherline is stiffer then the g0704
07:16 PM gregcnc_: bed rail is steel right?
07:16 PM Tom_L: no
07:16 PM Tom_L: the Z column is
07:16 PM Tom_L: that's about it
07:16 PM gregcnc_: oh I'm thinking lathe so the same part
07:17 PM pink_vampire: i need to get a lathe
07:19 PM cpresser: who does not :)
07:19 PM gregcnc_: I have enough lathes for now
07:19 PM pink_vampire: give me one :)
07:20 PM Tom_L: you'd have to pry mine out of my cold dead fingers
07:27 PM pink_vampire: parting!'
08:41 PM jesseg: I'm starting to get my relief routing algo working: https://imgur.com/a/cmBax
08:42 PM jesseg: or whatever you call it. Oh, isolation routing?
09:16 PM pink_vampire: jesseg: i don't understated what is in the picture
09:34 PM Cromaglious_: YAY, milling 2mm off the inside of the mounting holes, lets the motor fit on a NEMA23 mount
09:34 PM Cromaglious_: using 8-32 screws makes it really easy...
09:37 PM jesseg: pink_vampire, well, the colors other than white are arbitrary objects representing printed circuit board traces
09:37 PM jesseg: the white is the generated toolpath that routes around them without cutting any of them in half
09:48 PM pink_vampire: how the whole pcb look like?
09:50 PM jesseg: oh that's just a test file. I'm writing a PCB design / 2D cad program.
09:50 PM pink_vampire: why?
09:50 PM jesseg: I don't remember. I started about 20 years ago. I'm sure I knew at that time.
09:51 PM jesseg: lol nah the reason is I've tried a lot of the free stuffs and a few of the expensive stuffs and not liked any of them
09:51 PM jesseg: so I'm writing one that fits my style
09:51 PM jesseg: the math is killing me though :P
09:52 PM jesseg: it's not just a pcb program though it also is for mapping (like GIS) and CNC milling machine stuff
09:54 PM jesseg: I don't mind if you call me insane for it, I call myself that often enough :P
09:55 PM jesseg: I could have learned to co-exist with eagle for a fraction of the effort. But I wouldn't have learned as much either :P
09:56 PM pink_vampire: i think there is pcb to gcode online
09:57 PM jesseg: there are lots of free tools to get the job done, eagle, kicad, just to name two really popular ones
09:57 PM jesseg: but I don't watch tv or subscribe to netflix or the newspaper or well you get the idea. My chosen path of entertainment is to write a program that nobody needs :D
09:57 PM jesseg: I suppose it's as harmless as any
09:58 PM jesseg: I need to keep writing too, I'ml almost to 10,000 lines of source
09:58 PM pink_vampire: at least you have the spindle for those small endmills
09:59 PM jesseg: 9970 lines done so far :P
09:59 PM jesseg: Hmm?
09:59 PM jesseg: oh, my little old cnc engraver? yeah this program generates gcodes for that too :D
10:01 PM jesseg: wow, I just checked the size of my program. 312kb of source and 256kb for the binary.
10:01 PM jesseg: Most cad programs are tens or hundreds of megabytes
10:01 PM jesseg: and most of it is pure bloat
10:04 PM jesseg: lol eagle binary is 25mb
10:04 PM jesseg: but it's install folder is 241mb but it has some part libraries in there I suppose
10:40 PM Cromaglious_ is now known as Crom_
10:48 PM pink_vampire: what is the name for the tap that push the chips up?
10:51 PM jesseg: oh those spiral taps or whatever?
10:51 PM jesseg: pull the chips up?
10:51 PM pink_vampire: yeah
10:51 PM pink_vampire: something like that
10:52 PM jesseg: I think they are called spiral taps or spiral flute tabs
10:52 PM jesseg: taps
10:52 PM pink_vampire: did you ever used them?
10:53 PM jesseg: Hmm... I don't know. Most of my taps are straight fluted but there might be a spiraled unit among them, and I may have used it but I don't remember
10:54 PM pink_vampire: mmmm
11:16 PM pink_vampire: jesseg: https://www.fastenal.com/products/cutting-tools-metalworking/threading-and-tapping/taps?sortby=wholesaleprice&sortdir=ascending&r=~%7Ccategoryl1:%22601071%20Cutting%20Tools%209and%20Metalworking%22%7C~%20~%7Ccategoryl2:%22601102%20Threading%20and%20Tapping%22%7C~%20~%7Ccategoryl3:%22612644%20Taps%22%7C~
11:20 PM jesseg: there's some taps alright
11:21 PM pink_vampire: i'm trying to find the one that push the chips up
11:28 PM jesseg: pink_vampire, like this kind? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Widia-GTD-19642-UNC-3-8-16-x-3-4-x-2-15-16-3FL-HSS-Spiral-Flute-Tap/352149539581
11:38 PM Crom_: ok just ordered 5ea of https://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=252322830&uq=636544209982992986
11:38 PM pink_vampire: jesseg: wow much cheaper!
11:44 PM roycroft: so i got that dust collector today for the price i wanted
11:44 PM roycroft: and the guy is moving his shop and getting rid of stuff
11:44 PM roycroft: he has a drum sander he's trying to get rid of as well
11:45 PM roycroft: which is on my list of things to get, but well down the list because they're $1k+
11:45 PM roycroft: the guy is delivering it to me tomorrow and the price will be $100 including delivery
11:45 PM roycroft: i like fire sales :)
11:46 PM roycroft: i don't have a spare $100 but i'll find a spare $100
11:47 PM jesseg: pink_vampire, I have no idea if that ebay link I provided is even a usable quality of tool
11:48 PM jesseg: but I was just using it as a picture to see if that's what you had in mind
11:48 PM jesseg: Usually the spiral ones like that are drill bits on the end and taps up further for a single drill/tap operation