#linuxcnc Logs
Feb 15 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:34 AM fragalot: morning IchGucksLive
12:37 AM IchGucksLive: Morning
12:37 AM IchGucksLive: Ice road outside no way to school
12:37 AM fragalot: you'll just have to walk like your parents did every day, up hill, in 2 meters of snow, in the rain.
12:39 AM jesseg: yeah up hill both ways, that's what it was
12:40 AM * fragalot nods at jesseg
12:40 AM fragalot: dark, too
12:40 AM fragalot: not to mention the wind
12:40 AM jesseg: with bare feet
12:46 AM fragalot: jesseg: the real sad thing is that distances used to be longer back then too
12:46 AM jesseg: yeah aint that the truth!
12:47 AM jesseg: a km back then was about as much walking as 2 or 3 km today
02:26 AM Deejay: moin
02:31 AM IchGucksLive: Deejay: glatt drausen
02:53 AM gloops: well mainly wiring and cable drag left to sort out, another week this should be finished
02:59 AM gloops: cutting surface - 40mm spars bolted to the steel, machine will skim the spars level - sheet of 25mm mdf on top
04:48 AM jthornton: morning
04:50 AM TurBoss: moning
04:52 AM jthornton: wow 60°F this morning
04:56 AM XXCoder: here its in usual last gasp of winter temperate dip
04:56 AM XXCoder: some areas actually snowed
04:56 AM XXCoder: not tacoma though
04:56 AM TurBoss: :O
04:58 AM jthornton: high of 72°F is crazy for here in February tomorrow is back to normal lol
05:44 AM Tom_L: 62F
05:46 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Can_Holder/Extra/A12.jpg
05:47 AM jthornton: some kind of wedge thing?
05:47 AM Tom_L: finger trigger
05:47 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Can_Holder/Extra/A8_1.jpg
05:47 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Can_Holder/Extra/A8_2.jpg
05:48 AM Tom_L: leave a skin cut and punch the parts out
05:48 AM XXCoder: guuuuns
05:49 AM jthornton: have you ever hot glued a backer to aluminum to hold a part while you mill the profile?
05:50 AM Tom_L: no but i've used double back tape
05:51 AM XXCoder: heard carpet tape is strong and can do that
06:32 AM gloops: got some shielded cable alright, 7 core, this is like towrope lol
06:33 AM jthornton: finally got motioneyeos to work on the rpi zero w
07:05 AM gloops: wiring in twisted pairs, from say driver to breakout board, so the step and dir wires for x driver say, twist those 2 together, wrap some copper shielding round the pair and ground it, that should be ok?
07:30 AM jthornton: only ground the shield on one end
07:39 AM gloops: just killed a driver lol, + to - , now flashing red led
07:40 AM Deejay: re
07:43 AM gloops: confusing manual - anyone know if/how these can be reset?
07:44 AM gregcnc_: dropkick to the nearest circular file?
07:44 AM gloops: you mean its dead gregcnc?
07:45 AM gregcnc_: i wouldn't know
07:45 AM gloops: i dont know how anyone is supposed to know given the paperwork they come with
07:46 AM gloops: right, new driver to order
07:46 AM gregcnc_: what killed it?
07:47 AM gloops: power supply, i put the + to the - , loud clack
07:47 AM gloops: no smoke though, now just flashing red light
07:52 AM gregcnc_: are they fused internally?
07:53 AM gloops: i have no idea, DM542A
07:56 AM gregcnc_: seems like no reverse polarity protection
07:57 AM gloops: if i understand the manual it says - wrong power supply connection - cure - wire power supply correctly, which seem to suggest it has protection, but just flashing light, and i cant see anything to reset with, no reset switch or anything
07:58 AM gloops: ill get a couple of t6600s theyre cheap, if they are a problem ill get a proper replacement, at least ill have some spares
08:04 AM gloops: but i i remove the cover yes, might be a fuse gregcnc will have a quick look
08:10 AM Tom_L: cheap drivers mean no protection
08:12 AM Tom_L: Overvoltage, under voltage, overcorrect, phase short circuit protection
08:12 AM Tom_L: is what one page claims
08:12 AM JT-Shop: http://gnipsel.com/images/cleaning-line/cleaner07.jpg
08:13 AM JT-Shop: finally got the discharge sheet metal done... on to the next task
08:13 AM Tom_L: still workin on the tumbler?
08:13 AM Tom_L: nice control box for it, it appears
08:14 AM JT-Shop: yea, I hope to wrap it up next week
08:15 AM Tom_L: i watched some utube stuff on that process once
08:15 AM Tom_L: they had huge tumblers they craned from station to station
08:29 AM gloops: yeah these drivers look ok, theyre about 3 times the size of the cheapo tb6600 driver, had a look anyway cant see any fuse, new driver it is
08:38 AM gloops: some cheap gear about now http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EUR-UK-1Axis-Nema34-stepper-Motor-12N-m-1700oz-in-Driver-DQ860MA-350W60V-CNC/282536331066?
08:39 AM SpeedEvil: yeah, I got a box of four of those
08:39 AM SpeedEvil: or was it three
08:39 AM gloops: probably even cheaper to buy a full set
09:42 AM jesseg: hrm those steppers are no cheaper than the closed loop stepper kits
09:57 AM adamj12b: Can anybody recommend a way I can link an output of my 7i77 to the chargepump function of the interface or Linuxcnc?
09:58 AM adamj12b: I am looking to enable a power contactor that closes as soon as the software becomes stable regardless of estop or enable condition.
10:01 AM Jymmm: adamj12b: Out of curiosity, what is the purpose/function of this contactor?
10:04 AM adamj12b: I need to apply power to my servopacks logic power terminals as the encoders are powered and converted to differential quadrature outputs in the drives.
10:04 AM adamj12b: I will then use a second contactor to apply drive power to the VFD and Servopacks which will be based on estop condition
10:05 AM adamj12b: currently everything is based on estop condition so when estoped, I lose encoder position
10:05 AM Jymmm: adamj12b: Does the Pc HAVE to be "stable" to apply power to the former (servopacks,etc) ?
10:05 AM jdh: power it always?
10:06 AM jesseg: yeah it's nice to keep your encoder counts
10:07 AM Jymmm: jdh: (get out of my head damnit ;)
10:21 AM gloops: nice base for a router https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cast-Iron-Surface-Table-48-x-96-x-34-high-Bi-Directional-Tee-Slots/202087289759?
10:24 AM adamj12b: I was wanting to only enable power to the drives when linucnc is "in control" of everything. A lockup or watchdog error would kill all power.
10:25 AM adamj12b: main power switch controls booting on the PC and 5 and 24V for mesa interface. Everything else is based on the power contactors.
10:34 AM Todd_Z: Is the Linuxcnc e-mail list on the fritz?
10:42 AM Jymmm: Todd_Z: the fritz is on vacation for the next 300 years, please try the fratz instead. Thank you and have a nice day ;)
11:05 AM adamj12b: Might have overthought this, but wouldnt I just be able to set an output to true in the hal file so it would always just be on unless the watchdog bites??
11:08 AM cradek: adamj12b: you can sure do that. you'd want to set it to whatever the opposite of the watchdog-bit state is
11:14 AM fragalot_ is now known as fragalot
11:14 AM fragalot: hi
11:28 AM adamj12b: cradek: Can you point me in the direction of setting a fixed value?
11:31 AM cradek: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/basic-hal.html#_setp
11:32 AM cradek: you should probably read this whole page, it's a good one
11:38 AM adamj12b: ah crap. sorry. I stopped last night after I found what I needed with net...
11:45 AM gloops: well, pretty much on hold now till stuff arrives
11:47 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:56 AM fragalot: hi
11:59 AM pcw_home: adamj12b: if you want an output thats enabled when LinuxCNC starts and only disabled when LinuxCNC exits (or has a WD bite)
11:59 AM pcw_home: you could just "setp" a 7I77 output
12:03 PM adamj12b: pcw_home: That's what I was thinking. I will also shut down with the watchdog, correct?
12:06 PM pcw_home: yes
12:07 PM pcw_home: either watchdog (FPGA or 7I77)
12:26 PM fragalot: hey miss0r
12:26 PM miss0r: hello fragalot. hows it hangin'
12:27 PM miss0r: i just went out and bought a dewalt dcd791d2 cordless drill
12:28 PM miss0r: Seems like a good quality, and I needed a good one of my own now that I am quitting my elechicken job
12:28 PM fragalot: They're alright for the price yeah
12:28 PM Jymmm: miss0r: how much?
12:29 PM gregcnc_: not bosch or some other eurobrand?
12:29 PM miss0r: jymmm: ~230EUR
12:29 PM fragalot: a usable quality bosch or makita rack up quick, gregcnc_
12:29 PM miss0r: gregcnc_: I only trust three brands when it comes to cordless drills: DeWalt, Makita & Hilti.
12:30 PM gregcnc_: yeah hilti come to mind. one day i
12:30 PM miss0r: only the expensive ones from thoes brands anyway. (for hilti that goes without say, as they don't have any cheap ones)
12:30 PM Jymmm: miss0r: Why brushless?
12:30 PM fragalot: miss0r: Hilti doesn't even have any medium budget ones, lol
12:30 PM fragalot: high end or bust
12:30 PM gregcnc_: i'll replace my now ancient dewalt circa 1995
12:30 PM Jymmm: miss0r: it's double the price of the brushed version
12:31 PM miss0r: Jymmm: Longer battery life + no odd sparks if I use it in a oil fumed invironmelt
12:31 PM gregcnc_: smaller
12:31 PM Jymmm: miss0r: k
12:31 PM miss0r: jymmm: it is more powerfull & smaller as well
12:31 PM miss0r: in addition, it has alot less of that plastic feel
12:31 PM fragalot: you have to love that "20" volt claim from DW though
12:32 PM miss0r: :]
12:32 PM miss0r: I'm replacing an 8 year old 22volt hilti
12:32 PM miss0r: I'll miss that machine. But I won't ask to buy it from him, it IS 8 years old
12:32 PM Jymmm: miss0r: Ah yours has a 2AH battery, where the other has 1.3AH, but still
12:33 PM Jymmm: oh, and it's COMPACT verison
12:33 PM miss0r: Jymmm: I was about to buy another XR model with 4ah batteries. But This one is smaller, gets almost the same life out of the 2ah batteries & it has more torque
12:33 PM miss0r: this one is a 70nm version
12:34 PM fragalot: I wonder if that 70NM is calculated the same way their 20V battery voltage is
12:34 PM Jymmm: necronian: Yeah, I just noticed the compactness
12:34 PM Jymmm: err miss0r ^^^
12:34 PM miss0r: And I love how it feels in the hand. It feels like quality
12:34 PM fragalot: "well it really just gets 50Nm, but if you let the clutch lock up and twist it yourself, you could get 70" :D
12:34 PM gregcnc_: newtontorques
12:35 PM miss0r: lol
12:35 PM miss0r: 50nm is more that fine for what I need
12:35 PM fragalot: tbh, the only reason I've got Makita is because I already had the batteries
12:35 PM necronian: I didn't notice any compactness
12:35 PM fragalot: you just get a lot more from DW for the same €
12:35 PM miss0r: I mostly use the cordless drill for drilling & tapping
12:36 PM fragalot: miss0r: what else would you use it for? :)
12:36 PM miss0r: the hilti was starting to have a hard time getting a good grip when tapping m12 thread.
12:36 PM miss0r: fragalot: inserting screws into wood? :] I don't know
12:36 PM fragalot: nah you use an impact driver for that these days
12:37 PM miss0r: I also looked at the new makita 'flagship' model. That one looks realy awesome too
12:37 PM fragalot: it is, but €€€€
12:38 PM fragalot: they use makita exclusively on our production floor, drilling in stainless all day long
12:38 PM miss0r: yeah, but still nowhere near a good hilti ;)
12:38 PM fragalot: hehe yea..
12:38 PM fragalot: the chucks still wear out at the same rate though
12:38 PM gregcnc_: fragaolot #60 holes?
12:39 PM fragalot: gregcnc_: typically 13mm so the hole punch pilot can be put through
12:39 PM fragalot: in 2mm sheet metal
12:40 PM miss0r: That is true. One thing you cannot take away from the hilti: The runout on the chuck is VERY small. I mean, on this one with 8 years of professional abuse on a daily basis I can't even get 0.1mm runout
12:40 PM miss0r: This dewalt came with a factory runout of exactly that
12:41 PM fragalot: lol
12:41 PM miss0r: but that is still good, as long as it doesn't get worse anytime soon
12:42 PM fragalot: eh, to me that's on the verge of unacceptable, even if it's just a hand tool
12:44 PM miss0r: alright, runout was the wrong name for it. Lets call it slob. Its how much I can move the end of a 50mm stickout rod
12:44 PM miss0r: from side to side
12:44 PM Jymmm: 12 feet =)
12:44 PM fragalot: the thing that bugs me the most though on "modern" drills,
12:44 PM fragalot: is the fact that you can push the chuck in & out about 7mm or more
12:45 PM miss0r: I've never seen that thou
12:45 PM phaxx: to support the hammer feature?
12:45 PM miss0r: perhaps if you have a model with hammer support?
12:45 PM fragalot: phaxx: not necessarily
12:45 PM fragalot: but it's worse in those
12:45 PM miss0r: Neither the hilti or this new dewalt does that
12:45 PM * fragalot shiftilly looks at his drills
12:45 PM miss0r: The hilti does it, when you switch it to hammer, but otherwise it doesn't mobe
12:45 PM miss0r: move*
12:46 PM fragalot: it seems to be worse in corded models
12:46 PM fragalot: meh maybe I always pick up the ones that do that
12:46 PM miss0r: I can't remember the last time I used a corded drill
12:47 PM fragalot: I tried making a few grinding jigs with 'm a while back
12:47 PM fragalot: tried about 6 different ones I had lying around and all of them had that slop on the chuck
12:47 PM miss0r: Yeah, drills are not realy suited for that
12:47 PM fragalot: meh, it's on a 'cheap' universal grinder from Kaindl
12:48 PM fragalot: works with a diamond disc, and you clamp your drill on a ball joint to position it & sharpen whatever
12:48 PM fragalot: be it drills (4 facet), or saw bladezs
12:48 PM fragalot: works well enough with a decent spindle on it
12:49 PM fragalot: https://kaindl.de/en/home-featured/kaindl-schaerf-station-kss.html <- one of these
12:49 PM fragalot: step 1) weld up the base to make it more rigid
12:49 PM fragalot: step 2) make a spindle to put in it rather than a drill
12:50 PM fragalot: obviously nowhere near as good as a proper grinder, but it gets the job done
01:00 PM gloops: what are you grinding fragalot?
01:00 PM fragalot: I used to use that for drill bits & endmills before I got the cutter grinder, now I just use it for sawblades, gloops
01:01 PM gloops: ahh right
01:03 PM gloops: i like some weight in a grinding wheel, a bit of momentum
01:04 PM fragalot: you need something thin though to get in between the teeth on a fine circular saw blade
01:04 PM fragalot: like I said - this is "the bare minimum" :P
01:05 PM gloops: killed a driver today, wired + to -, now just flashing red led, manual doesnt sufficiently describe what that means, assume it means - dead ..lol
01:06 PM gloops: everything looks ok inside, no black bits
01:06 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: that's bad. There should generally be black bits in most electronics.
01:06 PM SpeedEvil: Are they all on fire?
01:06 PM fragalot: xD
01:07 PM gloops: no smoke either, just a loud clack, i shouldnt be wiring them upside down its easy to get confused, ordered 2 new ones
01:08 PM fragalot: loud noises from solid-state drives typically don't bode well
01:09 PM gloops: its no real delay anyway waiting on more cable and dragline etc, not like i can use it yet, i did want to skin spars off for cutting board though
01:09 PM gloops: skim
01:12 PM DaViruz: SpeedEvil: i ordered one of those 25W fiber coupled lasers you linked a while back, should be here any day, will be quite interesting!
01:12 PM DaViruz: appearantly 970nm is a pretty poor wavelength for a lot of cutting/engraving work though
01:12 PM DaViruz: i wonder what they came out of, he seems to have an awful lot of them
01:13 PM FinboySlick: What would you recommend as a plastic to hold a DC copper bus bar? I imagine some sort of thermo-plastic.
01:13 PM DaViruz: preferably thermoset i'd say, less tendency to melt and deform
01:15 PM miss0r: A friend of mine just stopped by to hand me a mitutoyo caliber which they had thrown out at work for having a display flashing " - - - - - " I just held the origin button for one sec, and it came back to life. Free mitutoyo calibers for me :D
01:15 PM fragalot: miss0r: Win. :D
01:16 PM gloops: miss0r im pretty sure my driver just needs resetting or something, no documentation or obvious way of doing that though
01:16 PM miss0r: fragalot: I just got my first big order for the new company yesterday: I have to build a small robotic arm, with a vacuum cup on the end. It is supposed to catch the cutoff from a special diamond saw machine
01:16 PM fragalot: gloops: I would hazard a guess that it's hoopajooped.
01:16 PM fragalot: gloops: not all components that fail will show external signs of a fault, however it's also likely that it's easy to repair with the right tools
01:17 PM miss0r: it cuts silicon discs 1mm wide, for testing before the material is shipped to production :D And they don't want a quote on it, they just want it to work
01:17 PM fragalot: o.O
01:17 PM miss0r: Yeah!
01:18 PM miss0r: I Couldn't believe it either. I have to build the electronics & mechanics! everything
01:18 PM fragalot: make sure that it's clear ahead of time where your job starts, and where it /ends/
01:18 PM gloops: fragalot well its a £30 part and i would need to learn electronics to fix it, dont really want to spend the time on it right now, maybe a job for some dark winters night in the future
01:18 PM miss0r: Its already started. I have alot of documentation to read here with me. And they need it working this time next year, so they just asked me to fit it in when I had the time :D
01:19 PM fragalot: miss0r: :-) Neat.
01:19 PM miss0r: Someone must have told them some nice things about me, I just got a call outa nowhere, telling me I was recommended to them
01:20 PM fragalot: there is no advertisement stronger than word of mouth
01:22 PM DaViruz: miss0r: so basically buy a abb irb 1200 and sell at a markup?
01:22 PM DaViruz: :)
01:22 PM miss0r: Hehe, something like that.
01:22 PM miss0r: Its only gonna be a two axis, with a suction cup on the end. I should be able to manage
01:23 PM fragalot: don't forget about the safety side / risk analysis & accompanying paperwork
01:24 PM IchGucksLive: Gn8
01:24 PM miss0r: Indeed. But theres not much of that in this case. The entire machine(robot arm included) is behind a plexiglass cover, which disables the machine when opened
01:24 PM SpeedEvil: DaViruz: yeah - it's not an ideal wavelength for many things.
01:24 PM fragalot: miss0r: Perfect. :d
01:25 PM miss0r: Lucky for me, I've been doing automation safety for the better part of a decade
01:26 PM fragalot: That was one of the "where does your scope end" points :-)
01:26 PM miss0r: Yeah ;)
01:26 PM fragalot: it's especially fun when they try & get you to take full CE responsibility for a 1970's production line because you're the last one to install a button on it
01:26 PM miss0r: hehehe yeah
01:27 PM miss0r: I was actualy asked to do that at some point
01:27 PM miss0r: something simular - I was asked to install an emergency stop on a production line, and they wanted me to sigh off on the safety on the entire installation
01:28 PM fragalot: yup
01:28 PM miss0r: I just countered them with a list of all the changes I needed to make in order for this to be a reality. They retracted their claim :D
01:28 PM fragalot: hehe, it's the only way out of that, really
01:28 PM miss0r: (Not a specially realistic list, I just gave it all I could think of, and made it sound realy realy expensive)
01:29 PM miss0r: anyway, I'll hit the hay, I need to get a realy early start tomorrow. See you around
01:29 PM fragalot: cya miss0r
01:33 PM JT-Shop: 72°F
01:35 PM gloops: well, not many cnc related queries left from me for the time being, can pretty much work the rest out myself, next project will be a while away
01:37 PM gloops: around 50f today, 1 duck laying and a couple of chickens, DEFRA inspector came this morning and said see you again in 5 years
01:37 PM fragalot: https://i.imgur.com/C1DloB5.png
01:39 PM JT-Shop: DEFRA?
01:40 PM JT-Shop: 7 are laying everyday and 2 are still ramping up
01:41 PM gloops: animal welfare, we've got a few goats which fall under regulations regarding movement and tagging - need paperwork kept up to date and so on
01:43 PM JT-Shop: ah
01:44 PM gloops: some of our chickens are 3 year old now, they dont lay like clockwork, they usually have a flurry early in the year then get hit and miss - more miss than hit now lol
01:45 PM fragalot: tighten up the governor
01:46 PM gloops: only me and the mrs + a daughter occasionaly at home these days, tbh we dont want hundreds of eggs, we're just keeping the birds alive really
01:59 PM jesseg: gloops, oh were you talking about getting stepper motors earlier?
01:59 PM jesseg: gloops, if so, there's some really neat closed-loop stepper kits for not a greatly different price
02:00 PM jesseg: along these lines: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hybrid-NEMA23-Integrate-Closed-Loop-Stepper-Motor-Drive-2NM-Position-Encoder-36V/121792648966
02:00 PM gloops: jesseg it might have been me indulging in idle chat heh, i did post a link to some cheap nema 34s
02:00 PM jesseg: oh ok 34 is bigger than 23
02:00 PM gloops: yes good price for those jesseg
02:01 PM jesseg: anyway closed loop steppers are really neat.
02:01 PM gloops: i probably will upgrade the motors on this machine to nema 34s in the future
02:06 PM gloops: when i get time i want to make some kind of rotary encoder, or buy some basic components and rig one up, just to learn how it works, the closed loop steppers are the way to go for general use though id say
02:07 PM gloops: this project has probably taken 4 times long than i guessed though lol, so quite a few things been put back
02:08 PM jesseg: well you know what they say. An easy project is one that hasn't been started yet.
02:08 PM gloops: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EUR-UK-1Axis-Nema34-stepper-Motor-12N-m-1700oz-in-Driver-DQ860MA-350W60V-CNC/282536331066?
02:09 PM gloops: thats not bad for motor, driver, psu and all
02:09 PM fragalot: Indeed.
02:10 PM jesseg: I just couldn't do an open loop stepper.. I'd have to have closed loop or servo motor :P
02:11 PM jesseg: Having the inability to lose step is just so amazing
02:11 PM jesseg: and the speed you can get is also amazing
02:12 PM jesseg: When I was experimenting with it years ago, I made the controller to advance the timing 90 degrees below a certain speed and 180 degrees above a certain speed.
02:12 PM jesseg: Of course at 180 degrees of advance they will run either way which is why you have to switch to 90 below a certain speed
02:12 PM jesseg: but they sing so nice running fast at 180 degrees advance
02:13 PM fragalot: what do you meanby X degrees advance
02:13 PM gloops: well, in theory a properly loaded stepper should be fine, prices on closed loop coming down down though makes them the more practical option
02:13 PM jesseg: fragalot, well, as the motor turns, the controller energizes the next electromagnet in sequence to keep ahead of it and turning it along.
02:14 PM jesseg: gloops, the term is "properly unloaded stepper" lol they only work because they are so massively overrated plus the software is so carefully tuned to the load
02:14 PM fragalot: jesseg: Ah, you mean the coils. gotcha
02:15 PM jesseg: fragalot, yeah exactly. By advancing, you can get ahead of the lag caused by inductive current rampup
02:15 PM jesseg: which makes the motor run faster and draw less current :D
02:15 PM * fragalot nods
02:15 PM gloops: diy cnc is moving on though, i mean people used to be happy to make a cnc that actually worked, it moved, using threaded bar and motors from big photo printers
02:16 PM gloops: now people are making industrial grade machines
02:16 PM jesseg: lol yeah
02:16 PM SpeedEvil: China is instrumental in this.
02:16 PM fragalot: "industrial grade" for the same price as before though
02:16 PM fragalot: Aye
02:16 PM gloops: yes
02:16 PM SpeedEvil: By making industrial grade machines out of threaded bar and motos from big photo printers.
02:16 PM fragalot: lol
02:17 PM gloops: until recently it was £50 for a stepper or £800 for a servo
02:17 PM jesseg: yeah
02:17 PM gloops: now you can get a closed loop stepper for £80
02:19 PM jesseg: it's about time too. :D
02:19 PM gloops: same with anything, 50 inch TVs were 2k when they came out, few hundred quid now
02:21 PM Loetmichel: gloops: 100W DC servos with encoders and attached electronics can be had for as low as $80 now
02:21 PM Loetmichel: new
02:21 PM Loetmichel: i have seen them
02:22 PM fragalot: that is indeed quite cheap
02:22 PM Loetmichel: ok, they are not top notch but reasonable enough. Even with a fromt mounted planetary gear to bring the steps up to several 1000 per rev
02:25 PM gloops: well it is the way to do it Loetmichel, just build the machine once
02:27 PM JT-Shop: Loetmichel: got a link for the servos?
02:29 PM Loetmichel: gloops: if you are willing to do a bit of "DIY" you can have it even cheaper. those 60W mabuchi motors with attached 100 line encoder are in nearly every laser printer. -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13519&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
02:29 PM Loetmichel: JT-Shop_ sorry, no. i remember it was a german shop
02:29 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-Servo-Motor-1-8KW-6NM-3000RPM-Driver-Controller-Kit-220V-CNC-Milling-Machine/282813420297?
02:29 PM gloops: usually around the £300 mark for cheaper ones
02:30 PM Loetmichel: they sold steppers, closed loop steppers AND chem brushed servos with electronics right on the back.
02:30 PM fragalot: that's not a positioning servo, that's a spindle, lol
02:30 PM gloops: some good used deals though, or should i say some good used prices
02:30 PM Loetmichel: s/chem/cheap
02:30 PM gloops: fragalot i thought it was cheap heh
02:31 PM jesseg: I think that's a 3 phase induction motor with a VFD
02:31 PM jesseg: and an encoder so it works like a servo
02:32 PM fragalot: would be good as a rigid tapping spindle
02:32 PM Loetmichel: jesseg: there are VFDs out there that can use an Encoder to convert any "squirrel cage" type 3phase motor into a servo
02:32 PM Loetmichel: but they are usually expensive
02:32 PM jesseg: yeah
02:33 PM jesseg: I thought about trying to see if I could use an encoder and a PID controller to control a regular cheap Chinese VFD on a regular 3 phase motor like on a lathe or mill
02:34 PM jesseg: since they have analog voltage input
02:34 PM fragalot: I don't see why that would not work
02:34 PM jesseg: but I suspect the response time of the VFD may be too long lol
02:34 PM fragalot: it certainly wouldn't be fast
02:34 PM fragalot: but that doesn't mean it doesn't work :P
02:34 PM jesseg: lol
02:34 PM jesseg: yeah
02:35 PM Loetmichel: it could start to oscillate badly
02:35 PM Loetmichel: even with PID
02:35 PM jesseg: ultimately there's nothing too complex to a simple VFD. You need some power electronics and a micro and 3 PWMs. They don't even usually bother filtering the output
02:35 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: that depends on how well you set up the PID
02:35 PM Loetmichel: or if you dampen it enough for no oscillation it would be like a rubber band instead of a rigid timing belt drive :-)
02:35 PM jesseg: even with PID? You mean especially with pid? lol
02:36 PM jesseg: so I'd be tempted to just make my own PID encoder VFD
02:36 PM Loetmichel: if the reaction delai is large enough there is NO way to get a rigid response.
02:36 PM Loetmichel: delay
02:36 PM gloops: see, im glad i bought steppers lol
02:37 PM jesseg: gloops, oh, no, we're talking about non-permanent magnet induction motors and VFDs... None of this problem applies to closed loop steppers. Close loop steppers are the best of both worlds, really.
02:47 PM gloops: well, electronics is not my forte obviously, im more interested in using the machine than making it tbh, and am i gonna make this machine roll it
02:50 PM Loetmichel: jesseg: unless you need much torque and/or rpm in a small space
02:51 PM Loetmichel: steppers (regardless of open/closed loop) are BIG for their power
02:54 PM gloops: you also have to consider the everything else about the machine, other than the servos
02:54 PM gloops: 20Nm flawless control - fine
02:55 PM gloops: have you got a spindle to hold the cut at that speed/force?
02:55 PM gloops: have you got the screws to take the resonance
02:55 PM gloops: does your gantry bend under that force? etc
02:56 PM gloops: adding servos to a stepper machine doesnt make it industrial class
03:09 PM gloops: Andrew Neil
03:09 PM gloops: Verified account @afneil
03:09 PM gloops: 4h4 hours ago
03:09 PM gloops: More evidence of German military’s sorry state: 9th tank division, to take over NATO Task Force on Russia’s border, not fit to do it: only 9 of 44 Leopard 2 tanks available, 11 of 14 armoured personnel carriers don’t work. Short of
03:09 PM gloops: night vision goggles, grenade launchers.
03:10 PM gloops: Loetmichel you and ichs need to have a look at these leopards
03:10 PM Loetmichel: no need to
03:11 PM Loetmichel: its not like we will ever need them
03:11 PM gloops: what? putin accross the ukraine waiting to pounce
03:13 PM Loetmichel: so?
03:14 PM gloops: russia has formidable tank capabilities
03:14 PM Loetmichel: there was a saying when i did my mandatory service (in the 90ies): "the german army is there to keep the enemy laughing until real soldiers show up"
03:14 PM Loetmichel: ... which was imho a pretty good description of the general state of german military. Special forces not inxcluded.
03:15 PM gloops: Loet germany used to have a proud military reputation, and engineering
03:15 PM gloops: i guess most of this is propaganda anyway
03:15 PM jesseg: For those of you interested I started a #diypcb channel..
03:17 PM Loetmichel: gloops: the Sub hunter i did my service on was from 1961. sister ship had lost its rocket launcher just before i got on that boat by simply breaking off the main gear from old age/cracks in the cast iron.
03:18 PM Loetmichel: and we lost one of the two engines on my last tour thru the baltic sea because driving "pedal to the metal" for 24 hours isnt a good idea on a 30+year old 3500hp diesel engine
03:19 PM fragalot: 30yr old is still quite new in large military equiptment terms
03:19 PM gloops: well, if it came to the crunch, i would at a push guess, the UK could amass a fighting force somewhat comparable to the one we had in 1940, what little army we still have does seem to be functional
03:19 PM gloops: im not sure i think germany could though
03:20 PM fragalot: gloops: one thing to note though, is that tanks are rapidly becoming obsolete
03:20 PM fragalot: most wars now are urban, and tanks don't like tight streets where they are incredibly vulnerable
03:20 PM gloops: fragalot that is true yes, at the cutting edge
03:21 PM gloops: there is still some application for tanks though, say as a massive armoured thrust into the soft eastern flank of germany
03:23 PM gloops: in an ongoing scenario, advances in rpgs and man portable atms render tanks not so useful
03:25 PM fragalot: I dno, automatic teller machines are quite heavy. I don't think they make portable ones
03:26 PM fragalot: There aren't that many western countries that have invested in their armies much anymore anyway
03:26 PM fragalot: diplomacy is cheaper
03:27 PM gloops: france is re-introducing national service, everybody is getting too slack on this issue, war is not a thing of the past
03:29 PM fragalot: macron said that as a campaign promise, but even the defense minister doubts it will be obligatory
03:30 PM gloops: it isnt a measure based on military concerns anyway
03:30 PM fragalot: it's also budgetary in a way
03:31 PM gloops: its a measure intended to unite the nation fragmented by uncontrolled immigration
03:31 PM fragalot: if you suddenly take away all 18-26 year olds from the economic market, that will have a huge impact
03:31 PM fragalot: how does conscription help with that, gloops ?
03:32 PM gloops: thats as well considering french stagflation under the euro
03:32 PM gloops: fragalot well it re-affirms some kind of national unity, loyalty etc
03:32 PM fragalot: gloops: but how does that help with uncontrolled immigration?
03:32 PM gloops: a nationalist measure in a failing globalist state
03:34 PM gloops: fragalot it may have escaped your attention but not all french subjects can be seen to hold national loyalties and values
03:36 PM fragalot: I'm off to bed, gnite :)
03:39 PM XXCoder: gloops: France is one of tougher countries
03:39 PM XXCoder: they gave up in ww2 just because they literally had nobody to defend country after ww1
03:40 PM gloops: XXCoder france kept 500 divisions in the field after ww1, they could have snuffed out hitler at any time they wanted - except when it was too late
03:44 PM gloops: when the UK evacuated from dunkirk, Churchill pressed france for reassurances they would hold out for 6 months, while the UK re-armed
03:45 PM gloops: he was horrified to learn france had capitulated after just 2 WEEKS
03:45 PM XXCoder: why? 500 divisions?
03:45 PM gloops: they didnt have 500 divisions at that time
03:46 PM gloops: france cunningly disarmed proportionately to german re-armament
03:46 PM XXCoder: sure
03:47 PM gloops: but france certainly had 400-500 divisions available during hitlers first expansionist moves
03:48 PM gloops: UK had 3-5
04:10 PM Deejay: gn8
04:38 PM JT-Shop: I am impressed how the guy in charge of fighter command was able to keep from running out of fighters
04:48 PM Tom_L: lots of ours are korea bound now
04:55 PM gloops: JT-Shop the UK was down to its last handful of fighters after hitlers concentrated attacks on airfield installations, we may have only had one or two more attacks left in us - then he had a brainwave and switched to bombing cities instead
04:57 PM JT-Shop: yea, a bomber command flight got a bit off and bombed a german city sorta pissed hitler off lol
04:58 PM Tom_L: pity the bomber
05:05 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L: you getting all this wind today?
05:06 PM CaptHindsight: social websites, porn, sports and light beer are current weapons of mass distraction
05:10 PM JT-Shop: lol
05:34 PM Tom_L: no but it's coming
05:34 PM Tom_L: supposed to turn cold
05:35 PM JT-Shop: been windy as heck here all day cold tomorrow sometime
05:35 PM Tom_L: pretty calm today
05:36 PM Tom_L: i wonder what to use to cut the angled steps on strap clamps
05:37 PM Tom_L: i've got a beveled cutter but not sure what angle these steps are
05:41 PM JT-Shop: time to fire up some shrimp tacos for chow
05:41 PM JT-Shop: see you in the am
05:41 PM Tom_L: later
05:58 PM SpeedEvil: 1940 had no GPS
05:58 PM SpeedEvil: Navigation to hit even cities was a challenge
05:59 PM SpeedEvil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gee_%28navigation%29
05:59 PM SpeedEvil: Gee derivatives (LORAN) just recently (last couple of years) went off the air
09:16 PM Contract_Pilot: Sup all
09:39 PM jesseg: howdy Contract_Pilot
09:40 PM Contract_Pilot: Been a bit busy now that i can move got some work done on my benches.
09:59 PM Cromaglious_: Fried a 5 axis ebay BOB today
10:08 PM jesseg: What is a bob?
10:09 PM Cromaglious_: Breakout board
10:10 PM Cromaglious_: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC0.A0.H1.X5+axis+breakout+board.TRS0&_nkw=5+axis+cnc+breakout+board&_sacat=0
10:12 PM jesseg: ahhh smoked it good?
10:12 PM jesseg: dare I ask how?
10:13 PM Cromaglious_: fried, not smoked... didn't let any smoke out...
10:13 PM jesseg: just stopped short? strange.
10:14 PM jesseg: maybe the macro bit fragulated
10:14 PM Cromaglious_: put some 24vdc wrong polarity on the opto isolatarors
10:14 PM jesseg: oh... ok...
10:58 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.banggood.com/Drillpro-11_5-Inch-Chainsaw-Bracket-Changed-Angle-Grinder-Into-Chain-Saw-Woodworking-Tool-p-1230720.html
10:58 PM SpeedEvil: If you have any extra limbs you need pruning.
11:42 PM roycroft: my limbs are just fine, thank you very much
11:42 PM roycroft: i'm medium height
11:42 PM roycroft: i don't need to be any shorter
11:43 PM roycroft: nor do i consider any of my limbs superfluous