#linuxcnc Logs

Feb 12 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:48 AM IchGucksLive: morning from Germany
12:51 AM IchGucksLive: Sambadrom SP live Stream
12:51 AM IchGucksLive: mplayer http://dns.infinitytv.xyz:8000/live/marcelo7009/C064LZjzrv/226.ts
12:51 AM IchGucksLive: later
01:05 AM gloops: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ANTIQUE-BRITANNIA-CO-COLCHESTER-Vintage-Industrial-Treadle-ENGINEER-LATHE/362238780708?
01:08 AM Wolf__: buy it
01:08 AM gloops: no room for ornaments
01:09 AM gloops: some cheap milling machines going atm
01:09 AM Wolf__: meh I would get it but the drive would be a total bitch
01:10 AM XXCoder: buy inside is bigger tech and make your room bigger in inside.
01:11 AM XXCoder: 2 whole pounds lol
01:11 AM gloops: not so common to see with the treadle complete, if it goes for nothing it will probably end up in some garage owned by someone who doesnt know how to use it and get messed up
01:11 AM XXCoder: its very new auction
01:12 AM gloops: yeah long way to go
01:13 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AB-Arboga-Milling-Machine-3-Phase/232659202083?
01:14 AM XXCoder: so many old machines in ebay latelt
01:14 AM XXCoder: many machinists dropping off I guess
01:14 AM gloops: 3 head mill https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pollard-3-Spindle-Drill-Machine-Engineering-Metalwork-Used-Machine-Tools/142687556579?
01:14 AM gloops: funny thing, many getting rid of manual machines - many looking for them to cnc
01:17 AM Wolf__: treadle powered cnc
01:23 AM gloops: the ultimate stepper driver
01:23 AM XXCoder: cnc powered cnc mill ;)
01:24 AM XXCoder: sorry I'll show myself out
01:24 AM XXCoder: new engineer bruns video
01:24 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xDCu4cyzGY
01:25 AM XXCoder: he hides stories in his videos sometimes, and sometimes leaves a puzzle
01:25 AM XXCoder: good luck figuring em out
01:25 AM Cromaglious_: first coat of sheetrock mud up
01:25 AM XXCoder: doing some kind of improvement?
01:26 AM XXCoder: we just put on isulation in basement, 1/3 of wall covered now. feels much warmer already
01:29 AM XXCoder: he manually made train wheels
01:29 AM XXCoder: crazy
01:33 AM Cromaglious_: redoing master bath. now I have my veterans 100% disability, we can afford to do so much now
01:33 AM XXCoder: nice
01:33 AM gloops: probably a good way to make a small shop pay - tuen it into a social media thing, make a load of youtube videos
01:33 AM XXCoder: gloop it was his hobby
01:33 AM syyl: not if you want a reasonable hourly rate
01:33 AM XXCoder: its been turning into nicely profitable business now
01:33 AM XXCoder: thats why his videos have been slowed way down
01:34 AM XXCoder: hes too busy
01:34 AM gloops: so it worked lol
01:34 AM XXCoder: and what the hell with the robot programming thing
01:34 AM gloops: what is a reasonable hourly rate for a small shop syyl?
01:34 AM syyl: i get a lot of paid work trough my youtube
01:34 AM syyl: for me its 40...60eur
01:35 AM Cromaglious_: gloops: my buddy is cheap at $90 hour shop rate
01:35 AM XXCoder: for me it's zero per hour
01:35 AM syyl: but i have almost no overhead like rent for the building or what
01:35 AM gloops: that sounds about right
01:36 AM gloops: suppose it depends where you live, who you are etc
01:36 AM syyl: absolutely
01:36 AM syyl: apart from that i dont work by the hour
01:36 AM Cromaglious_: I'm retired... I can almost give it away... did a toilet the other day.. $hour and a half, charged her $40
01:36 AM syyl: i give my customers a fixed price
01:37 AM syyl: better for them, better for me
01:37 AM syyl: easier to plan
01:37 AM syyl: and they dont pay extra if i have a slow day
01:37 AM gloops: theres a bloke in our village who has always messed around with stuff, welding, machining since he was a kid, everybody goes to him for any little jobs done, he turns more away than he takes on
01:38 AM Cromaglious_: gloops: I'm kinda of that guy in some aspects
01:38 AM Cromaglious_: I fix alot of the cars for our younger actors,
01:39 AM gloops: well theres others who can do it and have good equipment but dont get any local work
01:40 AM XXCoder: heh I still hope I could do some cnc maching artwork and sell em
01:40 AM XXCoder: but I doubt I would do much metal parts maching at home
01:42 AM gloops: thats the other way XXCoder - make stuff and sell it
01:42 AM XXCoder: yeah
01:43 AM XXCoder: I do plan to make some youtube videos but not to make money but "hey thats cool"
01:43 AM gloops: which tbh id rather do, no phonecalls and people turning up at all hours
01:43 AM Cromaglious_: There's Roger Webb in Tasmainia... always has those turn fire wood into $150 figure...
01:44 AM XXCoder: more money making other people stuff I would think
01:46 AM syyl: definetly.
01:46 AM gloops: its the difference between providing a service and making a product, being the sole service provider can be pretty stressful for something like mechanical repairs, small machining etc
01:46 AM gloops: everybody always wants something doing thats a total bitch, and they all want it right away
01:46 AM gloops: because they are stuck without the part
01:46 AM syyl: i found that making parts for private persons that know what they want and small buisnesses works best
01:46 AM syyl: persons that have no clue about what they want are dangerous
01:47 AM syyl: "i need something like this, just different, more like that"
01:48 AM gloops: syyl yes thats true, you have to learn who to turn away, or youll spend your life faffing about for nothing
01:48 AM XXCoder: lol graphic design is all that
01:50 AM gloops: first thing to say 'this is going to cost'
01:50 AM XXCoder: second thing should be "modifications cost 10x as much"
01:51 AM gloops: and if theyre still there - at least you will make something on it
01:52 AM gloops: some people recognise a struggling small trader, they know he needs the work - and they will get him plenty of work, for nothing, which doesnt help him at all, it makes things worse
01:56 AM syyl: oh
01:57 AM syyl: and run away from startups and inventors
01:57 AM gloops: lol
01:57 AM syyl: serious
01:57 AM syyl: no money, no clue, no drawings
01:57 AM XXCoder: syyl: unless they pay 100x as much money? lol
01:58 AM XXCoder: and 10% of holding in company only if it goes up? ;)
01:58 AM gloops: have a look at the idea, weight it up - yeah ill help, for a 30% stake in the invention
01:58 AM syyl: to much hasle for my taste
01:58 AM Wolf__: we need all this work done, we can pay soon as we take off
01:58 AM syyl: lol
01:58 AM XXCoder: sure I will go into shop as soon as we take off
01:58 AM syyl: :D
01:59 AM XXCoder: otherwise nyet :P
01:59 AM * Wolf__ makes note, startups pay upfront for work
02:02 AM syyl: meh
02:02 AM syyl: better get in the shop
02:02 AM syyl: got work to do ;)
02:02 AM syyl: for non-inventors ;)
02:03 AM XXCoder: startups I bet isnt as bad as pre-tartup, they probably would want YOU t design something for them
02:04 AM syyl: oh
02:04 AM syyl: thats great
02:04 AM syyl: thats when a hourly rate kicks in.
02:04 AM XXCoder: "yeah we want something to weight one pound and could hold against deformation force of million tons"
02:05 AM gloops: suppose it depends, someone starting a business probably has some cash saved up or borrowed, at the beginning they throw it around buying this and that - only after a while they realise its running out fast and they need to get doing something, they get more careful
02:06 AM XXCoder: thats assuming nobody in company steals startup money and buy a house
02:06 AM XXCoder: like tiki printer company something
02:06 AM gloops: most new businesses fail in the first year, very few actually go past 2 years i think
02:21 AM Deejay: moin
02:22 AM XXCoder: hey
02:22 AM XXCoder: gloops: yeah its quite hard to start
02:22 AM XXCoder: some worse than others though
02:23 AM XXCoder: reserants, out of chains like mcdonalds, have insane failure rate
02:23 AM XXCoder: while less so
02:23 AM XXCoder: *others
02:24 AM gloops: the ones who succeed probably have a few fails behind them, a lot of learning to do, a guess most newbs probably inject a lot of imagined customers and profit into the initial plans, and leave out a lot of the work
02:25 AM XXCoder: lol yeah
03:05 AM XXCoder: hey JT-Shop
04:05 AM jthornton: morning
04:06 AM XXCoder: hey jthornton
04:06 AM XXCoder: we made lot of progress!
04:06 AM XXCoder: we sealed the concerete basement wall, then made bunch of stud wood holes for networking and other cables, added some wall plugs, and then added some isulation
04:07 AM XXCoder: we have beginnings of networking center
04:07 AM jthornton: cool
04:07 AM XXCoder: yeah
04:07 AM XXCoder: got a ethernet box, patch wall parts, switcher, so on
04:08 AM XXCoder: plan to use plywood at that section because lots ethernet cables will arrive there, and want easy access
04:09 AM Wolf__: good idea
04:09 AM XXCoder: yeah
04:09 AM Wolf__: pretty annoying when the patch panel falls off the wall when you are trying to punch everything down
04:09 AM XXCoder: finally, im using my degree!! :P
04:09 AM jthornton: time for the chickens to wake up
04:12 AM XXCoder: Wolf__: any brush cover thing for networking cables to go though and not bugs or whatever?
04:13 AM Wolf__: http://a.co/0IH1Juu like this?
04:14 AM Wolf__: I mostly did commercial installs so never bothered with that kinda stuf
04:14 AM XXCoder: same concept but for behind patch panel
04:15 AM Wolf__: commercial we just used holes
04:15 AM jthornton: XXCoder: got any photos of the work
04:16 AM XXCoder: some, though my bro took pics not me.
04:16 AM XXCoder: I took video and some pictures of the mural that now does not exist :(
04:16 AM XXCoder: kinda sad about it but it was decaying when wall finally got dry, and nothing could save it
04:16 AM XXCoder: its now under water sealant
04:17 AM XXCoder: it must be over 60 years old
04:17 AM XXCoder: in least we recorded it digitally.
04:20 AM jthornton: cool
04:21 AM XXCoder: yeah polan to make youtube video of it
04:21 AM XXCoder: so it'll be preserved pretty good
05:40 AM Tom_L: 17F
05:41 AM Tom_L: helpful tip of the morning: when you set your fixture offset values for X and Y make sure you don't enter them into the tool table instead
05:42 AM jthornton: 23°F
05:42 AM jthornton: yep always do a chicken check before hitting the go button
05:43 AM Tom_L: doesn't become apparent until the tool follows directions
05:43 AM XXCoder: doh
05:44 AM XXCoder: was that the reason it went to wrong place?
05:44 AM Tom_L: i'm sure. i'll find out later today
05:44 AM XXCoder: I forgot linuxcnc has xy offset for tools also lol
05:45 AM Tom_L: sometimes being too universal can bite ya
05:45 AM XXCoder: yep
05:46 AM Tom_L: it could be an awesome feature when you set it up to tell it whether it's a mill, lathe etc and grey out those values in the tool table
05:46 AM XXCoder: or just enable/disable axis column?
05:46 AM Tom_L: or at least present a warning about the machine type and what you're about to do
05:46 AM jthornton: you can not show any column you want
05:47 AM Tom_L: how?
05:48 AM jthornton: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gui/tooledit.html#_column_selection
05:49 AM XXCoder: so edit the umm HAL ini?
05:49 AM jthornton: the ini file yes
05:50 AM jthornton: not in a hal file
05:51 AM XXCoder: man been a while lol
05:52 AM Tom_L: will that prevent an entry in those columns from the axis screen?
05:53 AM XXCoder: I guess if its undefined it defaults to everything and kitchen sink
05:53 AM XXCoder: but if theres something it shows only those?
05:54 AM jthornton: dunno try and see
05:54 AM XXCoder: of initial ini has everything in it
05:54 AM XXCoder: *or
06:02 AM Tom_L: i will, thanks for the tip
06:03 AM jthornton: hmm looking at it I think it is only when you use the tool table editor
06:04 AM Tom_L: it likely won't happen here again anyway :)
06:18 AM jthornton: I hear that
07:52 AM gregcnc: tom_l so there where X,Y offsets in the tool table oops
08:25 AM SpeedEvil: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-01600-6
08:25 AM SpeedEvil: Crushed wood is stronger than steel
08:26 AM SpeedEvil: Somewhat hyped, but interesting
08:36 AM jthornton: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pykrete
09:11 AM IchGucksLive: hi
09:17 AM MrHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=djxsE6zo_tc Harvard's milliDelta: A high-bandwidth, high-precision, millimeter-scale Delta robot
09:20 AM FinboySlick: MrHindsight: Piezo actuators?
09:24 AM MrHindsight: MEMS
09:24 AM SpeedEvil: i've been wondering about that.
09:24 AM SpeedEvil: 5mm or so working area, flexure driven by RC servos.
09:27 AM FinboySlick: MrHindsight: My first thought would be that it may be interesting as an alternative to galvanometers for laser positioning.
09:29 AM MrHindsight: not as fast as galvo
09:29 AM MrHindsight: that platform
09:30 AM MrHindsight: laser with DLP is laser with MEMS
09:32 AM FinboySlick: Yeah, I knew that dlp used mems.
09:33 AM FinboySlick: I was thinking more along the lines of aiming the fiber+lens directly for high powered output.
09:34 AM FinboySlick: Technically, the lens could also be fixed and you could use the ability to change position to adjust focus on the fly too.
09:34 AM MrHindsight: https://www.mecademic.com/products/Meca500-small-robot-arm
09:35 AM MrHindsight: not many small robots on the market
09:35 AM FinboySlick: Looks pretty sturdy too.
09:36 AM FinboySlick: Uh oh... Made in Canada. It's going to be super-expensive.
09:36 AM MrHindsight: a few Stewart platforms and a delta for ~$80K https://www.asyril.com/en/products/modules.html#deltarobot
09:44 AM MrHindsight: FinboySlick: I just sent them an email asking for pricing, whats is your guess?
09:48 AM jym: ONE BILLION DOLLARS, but that's just a guess ;)
10:11 AM FinboySlick: MrHindsight: 20 to 30k
10:11 AM FinboySlick: ;)
10:11 AM FinboySlick: More seriously, it's probably like 5k.
10:39 AM jdh: 15k
10:44 AM jdh: I have several IRB 120 for a ~50g payload. relatively bulky and overkill
10:45 AM skunkworks: moving nuclear material? ;)
10:47 AM jym: skunkworks: ...one half-life at a time =)
10:50 AM jdh: moving components
11:44 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:47 AM fragalot: hi IchGucksLive
11:50 AM IchGucksLive: ;.)
11:56 AM Nick-Shop_ is now known as Nick-Shop
12:33 PM Frank_10: hi folks
12:33 PM gloops: i still didnt get my planer roller re-rubbered
12:33 PM gloops: evenin Frank
12:33 PM roycroft: better abstain for a bit longer then, gloops
12:34 PM roycroft: you wouldn't want any unplanned parts showing up
12:35 PM gloops: so long as its in a plain brown wrapper i dont mind
12:36 PM Nick-Shop_ is now known as Nick-Shop
12:36 PM gloops: theres a couple of rubber places nearby i might take it down, so long as they dont want stupid £
12:39 PM jym: gloops: Can't get the roller from the mfr or just get another planer?
12:40 PM roycroft: i just replaced the sharply-ribbed steel outfeed roller on my planer with a new rubber one
12:41 PM roycroft: i no longer get a washboard finish that requires extensive sanding on my parts
12:41 PM roycroft: the rubber roller is standard on currently shipping planers, so i guess grizzly learned from that
12:42 PM gloops: this is an old one, been stood a couple of years, strange one roller is as new, the other one has completely crumbled
12:48 PM gloops: i watched a vid where someone did the rubbering, they just bandage the metal shaft with rubber and stick it in an oven till it bonds, cool then sand true in lathe
12:49 PM gloops: id have a go but wondering if the rubber smell will be gone by the time she gets in from work
12:49 PM jym: gloops: That sounds like WAY too much work, plus temp controlled oven, the fumes, etc. Wouldn't it be easier/cheaper just to get a new planer?
12:50 PM gloops: a new planer?? lol, no i doubt it
12:50 PM gloops: theyll fix this roller for 20-30 quid i guess
12:50 PM jym: gloops: Well, I doubt know what you have, quality, etc. just that it's "older" which doens't say much.
12:51 PM jym: don't*
12:51 PM fragalot: Time to print little holders for my power supply caps I think
12:51 PM gloops: older = quality, this is german made, you cant buy them like this now
12:51 PM fragalot: I wonder if the printer still works
12:51 PM fragalot: .. and that the default settings work as I haven't used slic3r since about 2 laptops ago, lol
12:52 PM gloops: dont even think it wont work
12:53 PM gloops: if you keep thinking it wont, youll find a way to make sure it doesnt
12:53 PM gloops: grasshopper
12:53 PM jym: gloops: Well, if it's as good as you say it is, quit being a cheap bastard and just spend the $40. That's actually not bad for a roller if they guarntee it
12:53 PM * fragalot hits "start" and crosses his fingers
12:54 PM gloops: lol, it isnt bad for a roller, theyre expensive to buy, but i dont think id find one to fit anyway
12:54 PM fragalot: gloops: there are lots of services that will vulcanize new rubber on those rollers for you
12:54 PM roycroft: the one i just bought for my planer cost $85 + shipping
12:54 PM roycroft: just over $100 delivered
12:54 PM gloops: yes ill get it done, i might just try a few squares of rubber in the oven though just to see what it does lol
12:55 PM fragalot: if it's "real" rubber and it's broken anyway you could always attempt to cheap out with a bicycle inner tube and vulcanizing liquid
12:55 PM fragalot: regular rubber won't work in the oven, that has to be special vulcanizing rubber
12:55 PM gloops: ive got some some butyl sheet, perfect for it
12:56 PM roycroft: i don't know which roller this is, but diameter is fairly citical for planer rollers
12:56 PM roycroft: critical
12:56 PM fragalot: heh, I think my Z tram is off on my printer, but other than that it seems to work fine
12:56 PM fragalot: roycroft: easy enough to grind down on a lathe
12:56 PM roycroft: sure
12:56 PM gloops: just freeze it and sand down on the lathe roycraft, im going to price the job up anyway i said i was lol
12:56 PM MrHindsight: jdh: what do the IRB 120's sell for? ~$15K?
12:57 PM gloops: its not the money with me
12:57 PM gloops: its pride
12:57 PM roycroft: but if you're slapping rubber on the outside of a cracked roller and then turning it down to the correct diameter you're left with having turned all the new rubber off and leaving the old, cracked rubber
12:57 PM roycroft: if you try to turn down the original first, good luck with that
12:57 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: Say I was interested in a new photoresin printer.. Any recommendations?
12:57 PM gloops: turn the old rubber off first
12:57 PM jdh: no clue really. I paid $2M. but I got lots of ot
12:57 PM roycroft: it will probably explode as you start turning it :)
12:57 PM jdh: lots of other things
12:58 PM gloops: ill take some pics of the old one one day, really strange rubber, its like the old rubber you find on really old stuff, gone hard and brittles, just crumbling, its red not black
12:59 PM roycroft: i know that rubber
12:59 PM roycroft: i have some of it on some rollers that i do not use
12:59 PM gloops: it was fine when i was last using the machine, being stood seems to have done for it
12:59 PM roycroft: it gets hard and shiny on the surface, and crumbly below the surface
01:02 PM MrHindsight: fragalot: what size print area? just for fun or for production?
01:02 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: generic non-production use, build area at least 150x150x150 (approx)
01:02 PM MrHindsight: fragalot: I build my own. There are patents on most of the good stuff
01:03 PM fragalot: same can be said for all types of 3D printer, really
01:03 PM MrHindsight: laser, DLP or LCD? what resolution?
01:04 PM IchGucksLive: Guest55: Servus wie isat das wetter im SAARland
01:04 PM IchGucksLive: Guest55: ich sitz i ZW
01:04 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: I'll leave that an open question to you. currently i'm just aiming for "better than my FDM printer with 0.2mm nozzle"
01:05 PM Guest55 is now known as IchGucksNitLiveh
01:11 PM FinboySlick: fragalot: MrHindsight already has 3d laser sintering in steel powder in his basement.
01:11 PM MrHindsight: https://www.aniwaa.com/product/3d-printers/kudo3d-titan-2/ has open software so you can control everything
01:13 PM MrHindsight: but it projects up through the bottom of a vat so it has to peel away every layer in Z
01:13 PM IchGucksLive: MrHindsight: you did ask for mee last week ?
01:13 PM fragalot: HM.
01:13 PM FinboySlick: MrHindsight: They couldn't replicate the carbon3d 'bed of air' tech?
01:14 PM fragalot: FinboySlick: I would hazard a bet that that is patented
01:14 PM MrHindsight: IchGucksLive: don't recall now, maybe freecad for CAM
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: im on
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: as we Speek
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: coding line after line
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: ;-)
01:15 PM MrHindsight: FinboySlick: carbon did patent their polymer film but there are other options
01:15 PM IchGucksNitLiveh: Does anybody know how to get a 1/4 circle in Gcode when you don't know the exact Radius of your dicing blade (grinding wheel)? I measured the radius with a microscope but Its not a 100% circle .. something more elliptical... I tried to use G41 D0.280 but I only face air and no material is removed.. i tried some bigger Diameters already but no chanc
01:15 PM IchGucksNitLiveh: e right now.....
01:15 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8
01:15 PM IchGucksNitLiveh: gn8
01:15 PM MrHindsight: FinboySlick: top projection inherently does what carbon does upside down
01:16 PM FinboySlick: MrHindsight: But then you need a wiper, no?
01:17 PM MrHindsight: not always
01:18 PM MrHindsight: not for layerless
01:18 PM FinboySlick: Focusing the laser below the surface?
01:19 PM MrHindsight: layerless uses a plane based vs spot based light source
01:19 PM MrHindsight: so DLP or LCD projection
01:22 PM skunkworks: just found a 100GB video on our network. 45 minutes of mostly static images.
01:23 PM fragalot: lol
01:23 PM skunkworks: I let the art department know that they have to compress the file. they said they it would still be big because it is high def..
01:23 PM * skunkworks is now compressing it.
01:23 PM FinboySlick: skunkworks: Aww, they didn't go all the way. It should have been 45 minutes of static text.
01:24 PM FinboySlick: Efficient storage of information.
01:24 PM fragalot: FinboySlick: only if it's a screenshot of a facebook post, posted to tumblr, screenshotted including comments, and then uploaded to imgur
01:25 PM jym: fragalot: you forgot reddit
01:25 PM fragalot: reddit does not indulge in such nonense.
01:25 PM jym: fragalot: ...and 4chan ;)
01:25 PM fragalot: actually
01:25 PM fragalot: reddit just posts the imgur link
01:25 PM fragalot: :P
01:25 PM MrHindsight: XYZ Nobel1 converted to DLP and LCNC https://ibin.co/2rpPhrOPJ89r.jpg ~$1k
01:26 PM fragalot: Neat.
01:26 PM * fragalot wires $1k to MrHindsight
01:26 PM MrHindsight: it used a really slow 405nm laser and galvo
01:32 PM gloops: wow, some industrial black cyano superglue here, 4500 psi shear strength
01:32 PM gloops: £3.99 a bottle
01:32 PM fragalot: That's cheap, where did you find that
01:32 PM fragalot: ... and how much is in the bottle
01:32 PM gloops: flexible superglue, useful stuff if its any good
01:32 PM gloops: http://www.shop4glue.com/flexy-cyano-20g-flexible-rubber-toughened-cyanoacrylate-super-glue-adhesive-black-ca-superglue-86-p.asp
01:32 PM MrHindsight: bottle not included
01:33 PM gloops: 20g bottle
01:50 PM roycroft: is it a bad sign when someone advertises a dust collector for sale and the picture of the dust collector shows it covered in dust?
01:51 PM roycroft: my understanding of how dust collectors work is that they attempt to contain the dust on the inside of the machine, not the outide
01:51 PM phaxx: this one is better, it uses more of it's own surface area to collect dust for you.
01:51 PM phaxx: very expensive feature, usually.
01:52 PM roycroft: i probably won't be able to get it anyway
01:52 PM roycroft: it's advertised on cl
01:52 PM roycroft: and it seems the majority of cl sellers refuse to respond to emails, because they don't want to be spammed
01:52 PM roycroft: instead they want you to call them on the phone
01:53 PM roycroft: because phone spam is so much less annoying
01:53 PM roycroft: i'm in a data center today and my phone does not work here
01:53 PM roycroft: oh well
01:54 PM roycroft: it actually takes me about the same amount of time to set up a throw-away email address as to set up a throw-away phone number
01:54 PM roycroft: the former costs me nothing out of pocket, however
01:54 PM roycroft: while the latter costs me $3
01:54 PM roycroft: so i prefer throw-away email addresses
02:14 PM Rab: roycroft, if the dust collector were not gathering dust, they wouldn't need to sell it.
02:20 PM roycroft: the guy responded, and the situation is perfect
02:20 PM roycroft: he is located on my way home from work, so hopefully i'll be able to stop by and look at it today, but i'll need my picup to haul it, so he won't be able to pressure me into taking it today
02:21 PM fragalot: :P
02:22 PM roycroft: i have a smaller one, but i want to move the dust collector to another room, and need a more powerful one if i have additional ductwork to install
02:22 PM fragalot: I'm currently using a chain of shopvacs
02:33 PM gloops: think im going to have a go at growing fungi, facebook group looks fascinating
02:33 PM roycroft: red flags a' raisin'
02:33 PM roycroft: i need to see the dust collector under power before purchasing
02:33 PM roycroft: the seller wants to deliver it to me at work
02:34 PM fragalot: xD
02:34 PM roycroft: it's either stolen or broken
02:34 PM fragalot: or both
02:34 PM roycroft: yes
02:34 PM roycroft: although either one is a disqualifier
02:34 PM gloops: nah his living room is probably a mess
02:34 PM fragalot: impressive though if they stole it but left the dust on
02:35 PM roycroft: that's not possible, gloops
02:35 PM roycroft: he has a dust collector
02:35 PM roycroft: he can suck up the mess
02:35 PM fragalot: no he can't
02:35 PM fragalot: it's broken
02:35 PM roycroft: maybe he tried to suck up his living room mess and that's what broke it
02:36 PM fragalot: :P
02:37 PM gloops: actually the people who have mess are usually the ones who dont give a sht
02:37 PM roycroft: i don't want to see his messy living room anyway
02:38 PM roycroft: i just want to see his messy shop
02:38 PM roycroft: and only one part of that
02:38 PM gloops: he might not want people round scoping his gear up
02:38 PM roycroft: i can appreciate that
02:38 PM fragalot: or he wants to "be nice"
02:38 PM roycroft: that is why i have a bunch of tarps
02:38 PM roycroft: and when i sell stuff and random people come over to my shop to look at the stuff, all they see is the stuff for sale and a bunch of tarps
02:39 PM roycroft: i try to sell stuff when the weather is nice, so i can just park the stuff on my driveway when folks come by
02:39 PM gloops: lot of motorcycle thefts here done like that, go and look at the bike, dont buy, same night - gone
02:39 PM roycroft: anyway, this is the one he's selling:
02:39 PM roycroft: http://www.grizzly.com/products/2-HP-Dust-Collector/G1029
02:40 PM roycroft: he wants $175 for it, and i should be able to get it for $150
02:40 PM roycroft: that's less then the so-called 2hp unit from hf costs
02:40 PM gloops: that looks ok
02:40 PM fragalot: there's an easy upgrade to those things as well
02:40 PM roycroft: and the hf one needs $300 in upgrades to be useful
02:40 PM roycroft: yes
02:40 PM fragalot: put in a nice thien baffle, and your filter bag lasts a ton longer before they clog up
02:41 PM gloops: ive been looking at these diy chip collectors, vac then seperate collector on the line
02:42 PM roycroft: a pleated 0.5µ filter and a cyclone pre-filter
02:42 PM gloops: just gravity
02:42 PM roycroft: i only want the thing for parts
02:42 PM roycroft: it will be disassembled and rebuilt in a custom stand
02:42 PM roycroft: and the thien design is exactly what i intend to build
02:42 PM fragalot: I love my thien setup
02:43 PM fragalot: haven't had to clean a filter in nearly 4 years since I built that
02:44 PM roycroft: cyclone filters in general are a big win
02:44 PM roycroft: and the thien design seems to be the best of them
02:44 PM fragalot: so simple as well
02:44 PM roycroft: having that extra chamber is what makes all the difference
02:44 PM fragalot: no cones, no difficult calculations
02:44 PM roycroft: the chips fall down but are almost impossible to get sucked back up
02:45 PM gloops: yeah like that, i really dont want a big hose though its got to travel, not much power needed either really, low volume of chips per minute with light cutting
02:45 PM roycroft: if i were going to get a cone-like one i'd buy it
02:45 PM roycroft: i would not bother trying to make it
02:45 PM roycroft: i have a table saw and a thickness planer
02:45 PM roycroft: i move a lot of chiops
02:46 PM roycroft: chips
02:46 PM fragalot: they're expensive outside of the states
02:46 PM fragalot: gloops: I just have about 4kW worth of shop-vacs on a single line
02:46 PM fragalot: usually just 1.5kW works fine for my little planer
02:47 PM gloops: well ill use a seperate one for cnc, i dont want the dust mixing
02:48 PM gloops: shavings are useful
02:49 PM roycroft: i have a shop vac that i use for sanding, at the drill press, etc.
02:49 PM roycroft: i get a fair amount of overhead chips when using my table saw
02:49 PM roycroft: that's a drawback of using good zero-clearance inserts
02:49 PM roycroft: so i need to do some overhead dust collection there
02:49 PM roycroft: another reason for a more powerful dust collector
02:50 PM roycroft: but the shop vac could fill in there in a pinch
02:51 PM roycroft: my current dc is 1hp and 550 cfm
02:51 PM roycroft: not worth doing the upgrades to it
02:53 PM fragalot: I have about 350-ish in shopvacs :P
02:53 PM fragalot: /more/ than enough for what I do
02:53 PM jym: fragalot: You suck! a LOT =)
02:54 PM roycroft: shopvacs would not work at all with my planer
02:54 PM roycroft: nor my jointer
02:54 PM roycroft: the dc i have barely keeps up with the planer
02:54 PM fragalot: works alright on my jointer & planer, but I don't do anything wider than about 80mm
02:54 PM roycroft: and it's only a 15" planer
02:54 PM fragalot: the advantage of the shopvacs though is that they ahve a lot more power than a dust collector
02:54 PM jym: only <rolls eyes>
02:54 PM jym: fragalot: O_o
02:54 PM roycroft: that's still fairly small, jym
02:55 PM fragalot: jym: static suction
02:55 PM jym: roycroft: relatively, I was jsut happy using a 12"
02:55 PM jym: fragalot: you still suck... a LOT =)
02:56 PM roycroft: i've owned 2 12" portable planers
02:56 PM roycroft: they get the job done, for the most part
02:56 PM roycroft: they're too damn noisy though
02:57 PM roycroft: if i could eliminate all universal motors from my life i'd be a lot happier
02:57 PM fragalot: agreed
02:58 PM fragalot: that's one of the reasons that my shpvacs are in cabinets, to keep the noise down
03:02 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Woodwork-Machinery-Planer-blade-grinder/222828399697?
03:02 PM gloops: useful, thats near archivist i think, but i dont think he uses a planer
03:02 PM fragalot: bit on the short side isn't it?
03:03 PM gloops: hmm 10 inch
03:03 PM gloops: easy to make one though
03:13 PM roycroft: my planer and jointer both have spiral heads that take inserts
03:13 PM fragalot: Those are neat
03:13 PM roycroft: yes
03:14 PM roycroft: they are expensive though
03:14 PM roycroft: but worth the cost
03:14 PM fragalot: yes they are, but the volume reduction alone...
03:14 PM fragalot: (noise volume)
03:14 PM gloops: do you make a living from this roy?
03:14 PM roycroft: not at the moment
03:14 PM roycroft: but in a year or two i hope to
03:15 PM roycroft: i did make my living making custom cabines a long time ago
03:15 PM gloops: think i have asked before actually, my memory is like a sieve
03:15 PM roycroft: i design and manage fiber optic networks currently
03:15 PM roycroft: and run an isp
03:15 PM gloops: good stuff
03:16 PM fragalot: was going to say, I don't think they allow woodworking equiptment in most datacenters :P
03:16 PM gloops: there are quite a few one man machine shops around, not so many one man wood shops though
03:16 PM gloops: not round here anyway
03:17 PM roycroft: lots around here
03:17 PM roycroft: but i live in timber country
03:18 PM gloops: theres a woman who makes bespoke cabinets, tbh i dont like her designs at all but she keeps going
03:19 PM roycroft: whenever i get my new router table finished i'll be ready to start making some prototypes of some products
03:20 PM roycroft: i have a belt grinder to make though, and a cnc mill conversion to complete, and a 12x36 lathe to finish tuning up
03:20 PM roycroft: so lots of shop projects still
03:20 PM roycroft: none of which will directly generate revenue
03:21 PM gloops: its like a singularity build, slowly, slowly, certain stuff gets finished, bit quicker then boom, up-running shop
03:22 PM gloops: difficult to contend with cnc with woodwork now, almost all aspects are done with cnc
03:23 PM roycroft: depends on the type of work
03:23 PM gloops: and small guys with cnc cant compete with the big ones
03:23 PM roycroft: i'd like to do custom furniture, ideally
03:23 PM gloops: well some will always pay for that, hand made, joiner made, as opposed to machine made
03:24 PM roycroft: bespoke pieces in a style reminiscent of the greene brothers/limbert/charles rennie mackintosh
03:26 PM gloops: a woman i know asked me to fit her a 'farmhouse' sink unit in her kitched, she had paid to whack for solid wood, supposedly craftsman made
03:27 PM gloops: it was mainly pine boards nailed and screwed together like you would make a rabbit hutch
03:27 PM roycroft: rustic
03:27 PM roycroft: definitely farmhouse style
03:27 PM gloops: lol, it was a rip off, no joinery anywhere to speak of
03:28 PM gloops: chopsaw and nail gun
03:29 PM roycroft: yes
03:29 PM roycroft: i have a serious disadvantage when it comes to operating a business
03:29 PM roycroft: sadly, i am burdened with integrity
03:29 PM roycroft: and would not be able to deliver product like that
03:31 PM gloops: i didnt want to dampen her excitement or anything but i was pretty shocked for what she'd paid, real made carcasses now must be elite furniture
03:33 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Solid-Pine-Freestanding-Country-Kitchen-Belfast-Butler-Sink-Unit-Oak-Top-Rustic/272149756977?
03:33 PM gloops: similar to that
03:35 PM roycroft: ikea has done a lot to harm the bespoke furniture business
03:36 PM roycroft: they are quite different markets, but ikea's driving the low end market prices down so much has created expectations that the high end stuff should be going down too
03:36 PM roycroft: when in fact the opposite is what it should be
03:41 PM gloops: well the big joinery place round here used to have a yard full of timber, inside more timber, everywhere, part finished items, sawdust, machines could be seen through the open doors
03:42 PM gloops: now the joinery places are huge featureless units with massive signs, could be anything, warehouse, offices, who knows, no sign of a shaving
03:43 PM roycroft: a decade of austerity had shuttered a lot of businesses
03:44 PM roycroft: especially them that were not adaptable
03:45 PM gloops: well same with anything when global corps move into the territory, have heard many times - we cant buy the timber for the price theyre selling the wardrobes for
03:46 PM gloops: i think the trick is NOT to try and compete with them, do what they dont do
03:49 PM roycroft: yes
03:50 PM roycroft: there are two ways to succeed in business:
03:50 PM roycroft: 1. do what your competetors do in a more efficient way
03:50 PM roycroft: 2. create a niche market where you have no competition
03:51 PM roycroft: the former is generally quite difficult to accomplish
03:51 PM roycroft: for small businesses, the latter is generally the best approach
03:51 PM gloops: there is actually probably high demanded for quality joinery, not many young people now are trained in traditional joinery, or gain any experience of it
03:51 PM gloops: demand
03:51 PM gloops: once people get to know you are there
03:54 PM roycroft: yes
03:54 PM roycroft: it's the medium size cabinet shops that would most likely be suffering
03:55 PM roycroft: they're too generic for the bespoke crowd
03:55 PM roycroft: and can't compete with ikea
04:04 PM MrHindsight: FinboySlick: $15K + $30 for cables and power supply for that Canadian bot arm
04:04 PM Deejay: gn8
04:06 PM FinboySlick: MrHindsight: To think I went to the same school.
04:23 PM MrHindsight: http://montrealgazette.com/storyline/a-robot-is-trying-to-make-the-worlds-best-poutine
04:57 PM gloops: damn this boredom is killing me, sat here drinking tea waiting for the machine to be ready
04:58 PM ASRock_pc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqDBxswIAFE&feature=youtu.be
04:58 PM Tom_L: to break the boredom
04:58 PM Tom_L: although it's about like watching grass grow
05:01 PM gloops: looks spot on Tom
05:01 PM ASRock_pc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEzwjr49o2U
08:16 PM dioz: yo
08:17 PM dioz: any of you guys have any idea how much say... a cylinder made of 22 gauge galv iron would "stretch" due to pressure?
08:17 PM dioz: lets say... .05inches water coluum
08:17 PM dioz: or .5 inches i mean