#linuxcnc Logs
Feb 10 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:02 AM Wolf__: except mine are heavy as fk and expensive
12:32 AM pink_vampire|2 is now known as pink_vampire
12:38 AM pink_vampire: hi
12:38 AM pink_vampire: hi
12:38 AM fragalot: hi
12:39 AM Wolf__: lo
12:39 AM pink_vampire|2: i saw your 3d design file
12:39 AM pink_vampire|2: 270KG for a 60x80 cm cnc is very nice!
12:40 AM pink_vampire|2: i think that you need to ass few corrections to the design
12:40 AM pink_vampire|2: add*
12:40 AM pink_vampire|2: fragalot: ^
12:40 AM fragalot: I'm listening
12:41 AM pink_vampire|2: you are using single ballnut - you better upgrade it to double preloaded ballnut
12:42 AM IchGucksLive: morning from germany
12:43 AM pink_vampire|2: the ballnut connect to the machine with only 2 screws > it will be better to make like a cage that will be more ridged
12:43 AM fragalot: Hm. That is quite a large change, going to a double preloaded ballnut
12:44 AM fragalot: the travel would be greatly reduced
12:44 AM pink_vampire|2: about the spindle, I have no idea what type / model it is, hope it is something with low runout
12:45 AM pink_vampire|2: as far as i was it look like you have room for double nut on the granit
12:45 AM pink_vampire|2: look at it*
12:45 AM fragalot: depends on which axis
12:46 AM fragalot: on the X the ballnut is the limiting factor
12:47 AM Wolf__: or you just need to make the end plates for the x axis with more clearance for the bigger nuts
12:47 AM pink_vampire|2: just move the motor out
12:47 AM Wolf__: bigger/longer
12:48 AM pink_vampire|2: also the rails are 20mm, I think you will be fine even with the 15mm
12:49 AM Wolf__: bad idea
12:49 AM fragalot: I already have the rails & ballscrews lying here
12:49 AM Wolf__: overkill on the rails isnt a bad thing at all
12:49 AM pink_vampire|2: what grade are the rails?
12:49 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: ebay special.
12:50 AM fragalot: http://stores.ebay.de/cnc-discount/Orange-Set-20mm-/_i.html?_fsub=4591293013
12:50 AM IchGucksLive: RIo Carnaval Images https://g1.globo.com/carnaval/2018/noticia/desfile-da-independente-tricolor-fotos.ghtml
12:51 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: german store ?
12:51 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: The one you linked me to :P
12:51 AM Wolf__: not too bad prices
12:52 AM IchGucksLive: https://s2.glbimg.com/ba8RbDgyrwlu9Pfp7A7Me1gZVHY=/0x0:1700x1065/1600x0/smart/filters:strip_icc()/i.s3.glbimg.com/v1/AUTH_59edd422c0c84a879bd37670ae4f538a/internal_photos/bs/2018/C/A/mN5A3aSNCea03SOFwV1w/d-users-fcarvalh-downloads-independente-132a6421-fabio-tito-g1.jpg
12:52 AM IchGucksLive: whow What a foam block
12:52 AM Wolf__: will be neat to see what sorta play they have
12:52 AM pink_vampire|2: IchGucksLive: I HATE YOU!
12:52 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: best to go by set
12:53 AM IchGucksLive: as you alredy did
12:53 AM fragalot: :-)
12:53 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: have you seen the 3D model?
12:53 AM IchGucksLive: yes
12:53 AM fragalot: any major comments?
12:53 AM IchGucksLive: lots of work
12:53 AM fragalot: ha. :D
12:54 AM pink_vampire|2: what spindle is that?
12:54 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: 2.2kW chinese square spindle.. They're supposed to be beter than the round ones
12:54 AM pink_vampire|2: did you got it?
12:54 AM fragalot: yes
12:55 AM fragalot: haven't measured runout yet, but I have broken it in
12:55 AM IchGucksLive: its a round one in
12:56 AM pink_vampire|2: 2.2KW is like 3hp
12:56 AM IchGucksLive: its only a cooling frame around
12:56 AM pink_vampire|2: not bad for 60x80 machine
12:56 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: Ah, lol.
12:56 AM IchGucksLive: this setup can do steel ofcause
12:57 AM Wolf__: 2.2CKW* = 1.5hp probably
12:57 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: yeah, in total this machine is going to draw ~3.5kW
12:57 AM pink_vampire|2: IchGucksLive: according to solidworks it's going to be 270 GK just granit
12:58 AM fragalot: excluding the PC
12:58 AM pink_vampire|2: the g0704 is about 150kg
12:59 AM Wolf__: 0704 is also hollow…
12:59 AM fragalot: and not very rigid
12:59 AM pink_vampire|2: if tu add the motors and all the extra mounts, it will end up around 200kg..
01:00 AM fragalot: my RF45 clone is 320kg and i'm not happy with how flimsy it is
01:00 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: if you turn the Z Rail 90deg outwards you got a major improve http://pasteall.org/pic/index.php?id=126362
01:00 AM pink_vampire|2: you can't beat granit with steel
01:00 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: outwards? on the sides of the Z plate?
01:00 AM pink_vampire|2: fragalot: the rf45 use dovetails...
01:01 AM IchGucksLive: put the Rail on a Block and let the Sliders move
01:01 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: so does the g0704?
01:01 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: that's what i'm doing
01:01 AM IchGucksLive: i se Sliders fixed and rail moving
01:01 AM pink_vampire|2: yes, also dovetails on the g0704
01:01 AM fragalot: sliders are fixed on Z plate, blocks are fixed onto X
01:02 AM fragalot: I did have to add spacers to clear the ballscrew
01:03 AM pink_vampire|2: try to keep the ballscrew and the rails on the same plane
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: i see the Sliders fixed to Y
01:03 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: could you use the "annotate" tool to circle what you mean?
01:03 AM IchGucksLive: and the Rail moving with the Z blok
01:04 AM pink_vampire|2: and for such a ridged machine it i hope you are going to use 60K spindle
01:04 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: 24k
01:05 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: ah right, I could not figure out how to get the most travel with the sliders moving on Z whilst still having enough clearance
01:05 AM pink_vampire|2: are plan any 3d machining?
01:05 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: not persé; mostly steel components that I can't make on the manual mill at the moment
01:06 AM pink_vampire|2: also look at the design of the Datron machines, they also use epoxy granit for the base
01:06 AM gloops: why not throw in rotary spindle
01:07 AM pink_vampire|2: gloops: i never saw a linear spindle
01:07 AM pink_vampire|2: broach?
01:07 AM gloops: i mean the spindle rotates not the tool
01:07 AM pink_vampire|2: O_o
01:08 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: this is the most comen one you used but not the best for stiffness
01:08 AM fragalot: gloops: so a 4th axis?
01:08 AM gloops: with a rotary table as well - 5 axis
01:08 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: so the Z plate would stay the same length, but i'd move the sliders to that plate, and make the X plate larger to accept the rails?
01:08 AM IchGucksLive: As your gone with Full Block you shoudt stay on full block construction
01:09 AM IchGucksLive: so block on block at Y anmd Zrails on blöock
01:09 AM fragalot: gloops: maybe a few years in the future, for now 3 is fine.
01:09 AM IchGucksLive: then the Sliders to the Z Spindle plate
01:09 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: ok. I'll alter the design later today like that and see what I can come up with.
01:09 AM IchGucksLive: gives you mutsch better performence Within 90DEG so you got full 8Point stiffness
01:10 AM IchGucksLive: now you only got 4
01:10 AM fragalot: Right
01:11 AM IchGucksLive: are you here later this evening i will do a small sketch i got no system running now
01:11 AM fragalot: Yeah
01:12 AM pink_vampire|2: also the channel in the granit, is place that stress can develop, I think you will be better without it
01:12 AM pink_vampire|2: are those servos or steppers?
01:12 AM gloops: oh yes there was something i thought of - i changed the step settings to 3000 - this seemed to make the problem worse, one x motor acting very strange - if the problem is aactually noise, you think increasing the step time would make it worse?
01:12 AM fragalot: hybrids
01:13 AM pink_vampire|2: steppers with encoders?
01:13 AM fragalot: yes
01:13 AM pink_vampire|2: any advantage over servos?
01:13 AM fragalot: the channel is there to provide clearance for motors and ballscrews, otherwise I need too much spacers on the linear rails
01:13 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: cheaper.
01:13 AM fragalot: the channel will have a big fillet on it though to combat stress
01:14 AM fragalot: brb
01:14 AM pink_vampire|2: ok
01:17 AM fragalot: back
01:18 AM pink_vampire|2: are you new to 3d modeling?
01:19 AM fragalot: no, just new to Fusion
01:20 AM fragalot: I have about 12yrs of experience with autocad inventor
01:22 AM MarcelineVQ: Inventor was/is pretty great, there's features in it I used probably 15 years ago that still aren't in fusion. I can afford fusion though :>
01:22 AM fragalot: haha yeah
01:23 AM fragalot: Inventor has it's quirks too though with large assemblies
01:23 AM fragalot: "oh I'll just add this one part" *asssembly explodes and half the constraints invert*
01:23 AM pink_vampire|2: also your Z axis look too tall
01:23 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: it will spend most of it's time halfway
01:24 AM fragalot: not shown is the 110mm high vise
01:24 AM pink_vampire|2: lets add it
01:24 AM IchGucksLive: im off
01:24 AM gloops: i would use at least 1 inch plate, more
01:24 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: don't have a 3D model of it yet
01:24 AM gloops: i wouldnt use ally anyway
01:25 AM pink_vampire|2: i have :)
01:25 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: of a 6" kurt? :P
01:25 AM pink_vampire|2: 5
01:26 AM pink_vampire|2: 5" grizzly
01:26 AM fragalot: tbh I may just go for a smaller 4" on this machine
01:26 AM fragalot: well mine's a Vertex, but it's the kurt style
01:26 AM pink_vampire|2: get 2 tool maker vises
01:26 AM pink_vampire|2: it will be much better for small parts
01:26 AM fragalot: yeah, I have a nice 4" grinding vise that I used to use a lot
01:26 AM Wolf__: 4 vs 6 is a big diff https://i.imgur.com/6Nbfrff.png?1
01:27 AM fragalot: the clamping pressure is less, but it's plenty good for 12mm endmills & smaller
01:27 AM pink_vampire|2: I'm trying to open 1gb silidworks file
01:27 AM fragalot: Wolf__: Yup.
01:27 AM pink_vampire|2: more then 1000 parts..
01:27 AM pink_vampire|2: just to fine the vise
01:27 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EU-Free-Ship-1pcs-Nema-34-stepper-motor-1600-oz-in-Dual-Shaft-11-2NM-CNC/302372400941?
01:28 AM gloops: 3.5 amp?
01:28 AM fragalot: lol
01:28 AM fragalot: either it's really efficient, or their numbers are off
01:28 AM Wolf__: sounds legit…
01:28 AM Wolf__: lol
01:29 AM Wolf__: wanna buy a bridge?
01:29 AM gloops: 5.6v
01:29 AM fragalot: Maybe they are using the weight of the stepper into the equation
01:29 AM gloops: im buying these, theyre perfect
01:29 AM gloops: you will never have any regrets with longs motors
01:30 AM Wolf__: if they are actual longs
01:30 AM pink_vampire|2: https://i.imgur.com/HPLdAzi.png
01:30 AM Wolf__: I’m running longs on my X1
01:30 AM pink_vampire|2: fragalot: ^
01:30 AM gloops: yeah theyre longs, its says it on the sticker
01:31 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: Neat.
01:31 AM Wolf__: I did have a issue with resonance/clogging or something on the x1 when trying to move quick
01:31 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: now if you could also redesign the Z axis & make some motor mounts & ballscrew holders I'd be very grateful? )
01:31 AM fragalot: :)
01:31 AM Wolf__: lol
01:32 AM pink_vampire|2: hehe
01:33 AM Wolf__: I need a Y axis motor mount
01:33 AM pink_vampire|2: i'm drawing faster then I talking. I just need clear instructions.
01:37 AM Wolf__: I’ll skip design and just mill the thing
01:37 AM pink_vampire|2: LOL
01:37 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: Flip the Z axis around so the rails are rigidly mounted to the X axis plate, and the carriages are on the Z, but try to keep the same amount of travel & clearance
01:37 AM Wolf__: huh, X plate with rails?
01:37 AM pink_vampire|2: ok one sec
01:37 AM Wolf__: that makes no sense
01:37 AM gloops: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EUR-UK-1Axis-Nema34-stepper-Motor-12N-m-1700oz-in-Driver-DQ860MA-350W60V-CNC/282536331066? you can actually get the full kit cheaper than you can buy the individual parts, £240 would increase the power x8 on my x
01:39 AM Wolf__: would make sense if you didn’t have a bridge machine
01:39 AM fragalot: yeah
01:39 AM fragalot: I wish I could say that though
01:39 AM fragalot: "I have a bridge machine"
01:39 AM fragalot: at the moment it's "I have a box of bits"
01:39 AM Wolf__: hehe
01:40 AM Wolf__: I can’t say much to that, 2.5yr old x2 build, no motors mounted
01:41 AM pink_vampire|2: fragalot: NO WAY it will work
01:41 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: Thanks, that's what I thought. :D
01:42 AM pink_vampire|2: https://i.imgur.com/VQQPdey.png
01:43 AM Wolf__: lol that vice in there makes your table look SMALL
01:43 AM fragalot: :-) I make mostly small things
01:43 AM pink_vampire|2: it is 12" by 7" or something like that
01:45 AM Wolf__: my 6” vise is 6”x15.10” not counting the screw sticking out
01:53 AM gloops: Ichs is helpful, his suggestion that taking 24v feed for the BOB from the vfd would cause noise, seems to stand up looking at reports on forums
01:54 AM gloops: i will rig up a 12v supply from pc power pack
01:54 AM fragalot: yeah that 24V source is ugly as can be
01:55 AM gloops: it might be worth it later to have 2 bobs, one for vfd one for steppers
01:55 AM gloops: isolate them
01:56 AM gloops: (12v feed from vfd not 24)
01:58 AM gloops: i took the wiring complete from my last machine for this, you know i bet that could have been the problem with the other machine all along :/ i just assumed it was the self made bearings and drive id made
02:03 AM gloops: i can test this maybe, i need the 12v for the homing switches, machine wont move till homed, i could home the machine, then disconnect the 12v supply, see what that does
02:04 AM Deejay: moin
02:04 AM gloops: moin
02:10 AM Deejay: :)
02:12 AM pink_vampire|2: fragalot: are you here?
02:13 AM gloops: frustrating, all i need to do is wire z motor and spindle up and im cutting, stuck on the x..
02:13 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: yes
02:14 AM fragalot: watching altered carbon
02:15 AM pink_vampire|2: i think i was able to make the z axis 40mm shorter on the plate and use less material, and make it more ridged, but 1000 time more complicated to make
02:15 AM pink_vampire|2: https://i.imgur.com/fovFIZ2.png
02:16 AM fragalot: did you have to hollow out the plate to clear the screw too, or just the nut?
02:16 AM pink_vampire|2: https://i.imgur.com/ouu1X2O.png
02:17 AM pink_vampire|2: it is not very complicated if you have ball endmill
02:17 AM fragalot: that looks like it would be a LOT more rigid, however doing it like that really makes me wonder if that design is at all workable
02:18 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: how much material did you have to take out? would this not make the plate weaker?
02:18 AM Wolf__: that doesn’t need to be all rounded, but would be better
02:18 AM fragalot: I can get ball endmills to make that, so that's not really an issue. :)
02:18 AM fragalot: the ballnut I can take out with a boring head
02:18 AM pink_vampire|2: the spindle plate is just 165.5mm high
02:19 AM Wolf__: https://i.imgur.com/HuoKKRf.jpg https://i.imgur.com/3dZmaDH.jpg tho I’ll probably add a mount to that still
02:19 AM pink_vampire|2: so tou can clamp it in the rf45 vise, and use 2 toe clamps to push it down,
02:20 AM fragalot: yeah
02:20 AM pink_vampire|2: is you want to save some machining you can just make the ball nut area flat
02:20 AM fragalot: I'm not worried about how long it takes to machine
02:21 AM fragalot: if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right :-)
02:21 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: your assembly seems a lot easier to make than what I cam eup with
02:21 AM fragalot: less spacers to stack up error
02:21 AM fragalot: less screws that are impossible to get at
02:21 AM pink_vampire|2: https://i.imgur.com/Z7LSB0J.png
02:21 AM fragalot: the only concern I have is overall clearance for machining
02:22 AM Wolf__: ^ just make the pocket flat and fillet the corners w/ ball mill or a radiused end mill to get rid of stress risers
02:22 AM pink_vampire|2: it is also an option..
02:22 AM pink_vampire|2: it is 25mm thick..
02:23 AM fragalot: Right
02:23 AM Wolf__: super fancy contoured for the ball nut is cool and all, but waste of machine time and cutter life
02:24 AM pink_vampire|2: Wolf__: just take 1" ball end mill and go left right left right up the right depth
02:25 AM fragalot: I like pink_vampire|2's last suggestion
02:25 AM Wolf__: i just mow the pocket out in one op
02:25 AM fragalot: mill flat area, in same setup use flycutter to remove ballnut area
02:26 AM fragalot: then use a 25mm ball endmill to make the rest of the groove
02:26 AM pink_vampire|2: and to do the housing for the nut, you can remove the majority with flat endmill and then finish with boring head.
02:27 AM fragalot: I am still havind 2nd (and 3rd) thoughts about flipping the Z like that though
02:27 AM pink_vampire|2: just dont go 25 in dept... you need to remove just 9mm
02:27 AM fragalot: yes, it's super rigid like that, but there is absolutely no clerance to work any more
02:28 AM pink_vampire|2: clerance for what?
02:28 AM fragalot: actual machining
02:28 AM Wolf__: tidy looking, except that 90% of your Z travel is worthless
02:28 AM fragalot: ^
02:28 AM fragalot: :P
02:28 AM Wolf__: unless you like chatter
02:28 AM * fragalot is stealing pink_vampire|2's solution for the Z ballnut & will try it in his previous Z orientation
02:28 AM Wolf__: extended tool holding for everything....
02:29 AM pink_vampire|2: also the corners in the granit make tour machining area very small
02:29 AM fragalot: I can reduce those corners easily
02:30 AM pink_vampire|2: angle grinder and a diamond wheel..
02:30 AM fragalot: lol
02:30 AM Wolf__: IMO I would design it so you can almost drop the spindle nose on the work holding surface
02:30 AM fragalot: OR, pink_vampire|2, I could simply change the mold
02:30 AM fragalot: Wolf__: that's how it's done now, but I don't like my assembly
02:31 AM pink_vampire|2: drill a hole a use abit of tnt
02:31 AM fragalot: there are too many stack-ups and screws you can't access easily
02:31 AM Wolf__: just make the X plate a touch wider
02:31 AM Wolf__: so the ball trucks dont overlap
02:31 AM fragalot: Wolf__: have you seen the current design?
02:32 AM Wolf__: sorta I think?
02:32 AM fragalot: Wolf__: http://a360.co/2nkCWxK
02:32 AM fragalot: there the spindle nose just clears the table by 4mm or so
02:32 AM fragalot: which, I think, is perfect.
02:33 AM Wolf__: yeah it is IMO
02:33 AM fragalot: but the Z stackup bugs me.
02:33 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2's given me a great idea to make it better though
02:34 AM pink_vampire|2: also
02:34 AM Wolf__: yeah, what I meant is the X plate, instead of 2 plates, just one, spaced so you can bolt the Z trucks on first, then bolt that plate to the X trucks
02:35 AM pink_vampire|2: you can make the table plate wider
02:35 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: I can indeed make it a bit wider & still cover the whole table with the spindle
02:36 AM Wolf__: or if the truck width/length works out, add a couple holes in the Z plate so you can access the bolts to the X trucks
02:36 AM fragalot: I'm going to do a 2 plate method on X with pink_vampire|2's solution for the ballscrew
02:36 AM fragalot: well, try
02:36 AM fragalot: 2 plates allows for easier tramming, I think
02:37 AM Wolf__: possible…
02:38 AM pink_vampire|2: https://i.imgur.com/AcF3h06.png
02:43 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: yeah i can also make it slightly longer
02:44 AM fragalot: going to focus on Z first though
02:44 AM pink_vampire|2: cool
02:48 AM fragalot: I have to say, Fusion is really great though for sharing designs
02:48 AM pink_vampire|2: this is why i like solidworks
02:49 AM fragalot: it's incredible how fast you get feedback, especially when there are people like pink_vampire|2 around that just take the design & improve it
02:50 AM pink_vampire|2: i did all the editing on SW, and the most annoying thing was to deal with the sub assembles
02:50 AM pink_vampire|2: because there is no need for them
02:51 AM pink_vampire|2: you just need to make one side and then mirror it
02:53 AM fragalot: that's how I would do it in Inventor too
02:54 AM fragalot: Fusion just sucks donkeyballs to do assemblies
02:54 AM Wolf__: inventor/sw = drafting set, F360= box of chewed on crayons
02:54 AM evilren: i do sw parts into fusion360
02:55 AM evilren: f360 is like, great toolpaths, good dialogs, shit CAD ui
02:55 AM pink_vampire|2: i need to trace the corner part.
02:55 AM pink_vampire|2: so i used the scanner to get the shape
02:56 AM pink_vampire|2: https://i.imgur.com/2zAt96W.png
02:57 AM fragalot: evilren: agreed.
02:57 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: :D
02:57 AM pink_vampire|2: evilren: try hsm
02:58 AM pink_vampire|2: i really want to get solidcam just for the probing cycles.
02:59 AM pink_vampire|2: i think it is super cool to cut something and then to make fine tuning based on the probing, all in the same gcode
02:59 AM pink_vampire|2: Crom: !
02:59 AM fragalot: i think nyccnc showed how to do probing with fusion & pathpilot a while ago
03:00 AM pink_vampire|2: probe and finish cut?
03:01 AM Cromaglious_: well my linuxcnc 2.8.xxxxGMOCCAPY install is dead... Now to install it on a new computer.
03:05 AM pink_vampire|2: fragalot: http://www.solidcam.com/en-us/cam-solutions/cam-modules/solid-probe/
03:08 AM fragalot: turns out I was wrong, and mixed up a Haas tip of the day vid >.>
03:08 AM pink_vampire|2: i
03:09 AM pink_vampire|2: i'm trying not to watch haas tip of the day...
03:09 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: how would you make the mount for the ballscrew in this assembly?
03:09 AM fragalot: .. hand on the public link thing isn't working
03:09 AM fragalot: http://a360.co/2snOFkO
03:09 AM fragalot: on the Z
03:10 AM fragalot: I tried removing the spacers & doing what you did, but I need to remove too much material to do it when the carriages are fixed & the rails move
03:10 AM pink_vampire|2: i just project the ballscrew on a rectangular part, and did few extrude cuts.
03:10 AM fragalot: now I may need to grind down the nut about 1mm
03:10 AM fragalot: but it should clear everything
03:11 AM * Wolf__ looks
03:11 AM gloops: right, did a quick test, homed axis with vfd switched on, switched vfd OFF - grating motors, missed steps general arsing about gone
03:11 AM fragalot: once all that is done.. on to designing decent motor brackets I think. :P
03:12 AM fragalot: gloops: Noise. :-)
03:12 AM gloops: yes i will order the shielding today
03:12 AM gloops: thats pretty severe effects i didnt realise noise did that much, basically rendering the axis unuseable
03:13 AM pink_vampire|2: https://i.imgur.com/rcXzKfl.png
03:13 AM gloops: i will run it some more anyway to confirm
03:13 AM fragalot: noise is a bitch that can cause really unexpected side effects & inconsistencies
03:13 AM fragalot: that's why there are so many EU rules around EMI shielding
03:14 AM pink_vampire|2: https://i.imgur.com/pyBlok6.png
03:14 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: yeah that works in your assembly, but if I leave the Z axis like it was before to be able to actually machine parts without bumping into them, it doesn't work out so wel
03:15 AM fragalot: because I then ram into the bearing blocks
03:15 AM pink_vampire|2: how?
03:15 AM Wolf__: spindle is on the wrong side
03:17 AM pink_vampire|2: what is your desire Z axis travel?
03:18 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: ~200 if possible
03:18 AM pink_vampire|2: ok.. let see
03:18 AM fragalot: https://imgur.com/a/BF5gf <- if I embed the nut into that purple thing on the right
03:18 AM fragalot: then the circled bearing blocks limit travel as they ram into the purple plate
03:19 AM fragalot: Wolf__: ?
03:19 AM pink_vampire|2: fuck
03:19 AM pink_vampire|2: i see what you mean
03:20 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: yeah.. and sadly it's too much on the top one to just carve that part out
03:20 AM Wolf__: should work, just need to take the end block for the ball screw in to account during design
03:20 AM fragalot: but the way I have it now I think will work.. I just need a very narrow mounting block for the ballscrew :-)
03:20 AM pink_vampire|2: the ball screw need to be on the other side
03:21 AM Wolf__: also you can always make the one end smaller, its just a stop block and to keep the rod whip down
03:21 AM pink_vampire|2: you need to make your Z axis like the X axis on the G0704
03:22 AM fragalot: I have considered a column design
03:22 AM pink_vampire|2: like the X
03:23 AM fragalot: oh
03:23 AM fragalot: I'm not sure I follow
03:23 AM Cromaglious_: Found the ballnut I ordered for the 1" ball screw... didn't fit. nut is a 0.200" and the screw is 0.250"
03:24 AM pink_vampire|2: if it is made it china you need to measure it with a ruler.
03:25 AM Wolf__: 2 different pitch or ball size, or both
03:26 AM pink_vampire|2: one metric? one imperial?
03:27 AM gloops: ive noticed with some chinese parts, the metric sizes drop bang on an imperial size, strange coincidence
03:28 AM Wolf__: thats because most are all actually metric
03:28 AM Wolf__: or just so loose they fit a range not a size
03:29 AM gloops: cant remember now things like screw spacings, odd metric measurement to choose i thought, but saw it was bang on 2 1/4 inch something like that
03:29 AM Wolf__: depends on what the original part the was cloned was lol
03:29 AM gloops: yeah that might be it heh
03:31 AM pink_vampire|2: https://www.evilmadscientist.com/2013/mug-marker/
03:35 AM fragalot: what I really like is my "metric" lathe
03:36 AM pink_vampire|2: fragalot: http://www.makery.info/en/2016/03/14/au-mit-des-machines-pour-echapper-aux-contraintes-industrielles/
03:36 AM pink_vampire|2: look at the design
03:37 AM fragalot: of which one?
03:38 AM pink_vampire|2: the bottom video
03:39 AM pink_vampire|2: they soo happy with the fucking cardboard axis!
03:40 AM fragalot: I really like the 4 axis wire cutter!
03:40 AM Wolf__: modular rapid prototyping
03:40 AM Wolf__: is kinda neat
03:40 AM XXCoder: I love evil mad scientist
03:40 AM pink_vampire|2: is kinda junk
03:40 AM pink_vampire|2: is kinda toy
03:40 AM fragalot: it's very junky
03:40 AM fragalot: and it's very much a toy
03:41 AM XXCoder: you seen their candyfab?
03:41 AM fragalot: but it's a neat concept for rapid prototyping
03:41 AM fragalot: before you make the proper one
03:41 AM gloops: golden rule - shape trumps material
03:41 AM Wolf__: so, do you prototype in metal everything?
03:41 AM fragalot: gloops: not if it comes down to flame resistance
03:41 AM XXCoder: Wolf__: I would love Ti SLS!
03:41 AM XXCoder: but so expensive.
03:41 AM gloops: nobody is expecting a fire
03:41 AM Wolf__: lol, inconel SLS pls
03:41 AM fragalot: XXCoder: SLM*
03:42 AM XXCoder: gloops: even if its prototype of firestarter? ;)
03:42 AM pink_vampire|2: solidworks simulation(that i didn't did) because of all the duplication in the file
03:43 AM gloops: well its a plastic printer, plastic burns
03:43 AM Wolf__: and really if you think about it, all they did there was make cardboard scara arms lol
03:43 AM XXCoder: interior dont seem to be cardboard but laminated wood
03:44 AM gloops: you can stand a cup of tea on a rolled up 5 pound note
03:44 AM XXCoder: yep structured strengty
03:44 AM Wolf__: base design was cardboard, but other examples were ply, and some ply parts
03:44 AM XXCoder: theres plans online for cardboard chairs
03:44 AM XXCoder: and theres ones years old and still rocking hard
03:44 AM Wolf__: but all quick laser cut stuff so super low cost
03:46 AM XXCoder: yeah
03:46 AM gloops: it is a good point re availability, ok for westerners who just order everything they need, in developing countries that is not an option
03:46 AM gloops: its a case of - what do we have that we can use
03:46 AM XXCoder: theres third option
03:46 AM Wolf__: well, also when you are trying to teach a class of 20-30 students
03:47 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: I think this is what I'm going with for now.. ballscrew mounts can be made thicker to accept 4 bolts if necessary later. http://a360.co/2snOFkO
03:47 AM XXCoder: and 4th aka Wolf__
03:48 AM fragalot: gloops: Hm yes, because developing countries have oodles of structural corrugated cardboard and straight plywood. :P
03:48 AM gloops: whats the 3rd XXcoder?
03:48 AM fragalot: a real good example of ingenious design is that super cheap test someone invented to check water for parasites
03:48 AM XXCoder: making whatever think up with stuff has. not out of nesscary but for lols
03:48 AM pink_vampire|2: fragalot: the hols of the screws mixed
03:48 AM gloops: fragalot they have stuff like that more than they have aluminium plates and welders and milling machines
03:49 AM gloops: you dont need anything, cardboard, knife glue
03:49 AM pink_vampire|2: hoo its the bearing block
03:49 AM fragalot: yes.
03:51 AM Wolf__: I do a lot of cad (cardboard aided design)
03:51 AM gloops: make a cardboard printer, you can print better components
03:52 AM fragalot: gloops: my first 3D printed was made of carved bits of wood
03:52 AM Wolf__: laser cutter
03:52 AM gloops: out of old bottle tops
03:52 AM fragalot: htat printer then printed new parts that were marginally better
03:52 AM fragalot: and so on, until I had a machine that worked incredibly well
03:52 AM fragalot: and sold for a neat profit
03:52 AM gloops: people do it with routers, make an mdf router, mill the plates for a better machine, swap the motors over
03:53 AM pink_vampire|2: fragalot: why do you have 2 plates on the x axis?
03:53 AM gloops: 1 sheet of mdf £25 and a jigsaw
03:53 AM Wolf__: thats like the first 3 month life cycle of any 3d printer isnt it, print new upgrade parts
03:53 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: ease of assembly
03:53 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: the whole Z can be taken off to be a pre-assembled part
03:54 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: (basically i can't access the screws for the Z carriages otherwise)
03:54 AM XXCoder: my linux gl support is dead so gonna install newer linux version to get newer and much better video card driver
03:54 AM XXCoder: so I cant even view that bleh
03:54 AM fragalot: I could solve that by replacing those carriages with flanged types, but I still have an issue with the ballnut holder
03:55 AM fragalot: XXCoder: :(
03:55 AM pink_vampire|2: maybe you can make the Z rails align with the blocks on the X and save one plate
03:55 AM pink_vampire|2: i don't think it will work
03:56 AM fragalot: XXCoder: http://a360.co/2G4rVZg
03:56 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: I can't access the screws anyhow
03:56 AM XXCoder: epoxy grinite mill
03:57 AM XXCoder: cool but I wonder what usercase is
03:57 AM fragalot: machining small steel parts
03:57 AM XXCoder: wont spindle assembly flex a little?
03:57 AM pink_vampire|2: fragalot: just add rails to your fr45
03:57 AM XXCoder: I see you made it as tough as possible but
03:58 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: it needs much more than that
03:58 AM fragalot: to convert my RF45 I would need to replace the entire spindle assembly on it, and fill the castings with E/G to make it worth while
03:58 AM XXCoder: is those plates alum or steel?
03:59 AM fragalot: plus I need to do all that without having a capable machine to make components whilst it's in pieces
03:59 AM pink_vampire|2: i think fixed z axis will be better,
03:59 AM fragalot: XXCoder: alu tooling plate
03:59 AM Wolf__: granite knee mill!
03:59 AM pink_vampire|2: you are anyway going to have very small table.
03:59 AM fragalot: that's OK.
04:00 AM fragalot: the RF45 has a pretty large table, but I only ever use a small section of it
04:01 AM pink_vampire|2: but there is no advantage to the granit if the Z is hang like that
04:01 AM fragalot: well, at least it's only the Z at the moment :P
04:02 AM pink_vampire|2: http://s3.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/CNC/GermanEGCNC/5805_110778858777_cnc_fraese_017.jpg
04:02 AM pink_vampire|2: this is much much better design
04:03 AM fragalot: That is indeed another option, just scrapping the current design all together
04:03 AM XXCoder: that seems much stronger connection indeed
04:04 AM fragalot: less material too
04:04 AM fragalot: and less shop space
04:04 AM XXCoder: can you adopt your machine frame to use that
04:04 AM XXCoder: am I blind or is there no Z on that mill?
04:04 AM fragalot: blind
04:04 AM Wolf__: blind
04:05 AM XXCoder: oh I see z screw beind it
04:06 AM gloops: i can also say that Ichs was wrong about step settings, and gregcnc was right, the values Ichs calculated dont work, same for stepgen maxaccel, stepconfig was right, the step setting must be in base periods, the dir settings are in nanoseconds
04:06 AM gloops: in 2.8 anyway
04:06 AM fragalot: in that case someone really should update the documentation
04:07 AM gloops: fairly foolproof to have step setting of 1 base period
04:07 AM fragalot: not really
04:07 AM fragalot: if you have a slow drive, that may be too short
04:08 AM Wolf__: could build it like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-Yl2MT2xPE
04:08 AM pink_vampire|2: maybe you need to add a third rail on the bridge
04:09 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: I fixed it, almost. http://a360.co/2G4rVZg
04:09 AM gloops: wll im fairly suspiciously happy to proceed with next axis, x seems to be working ok now, albeit slower than i hoped
04:10 AM pink_vampire|2: Wolf__: wayyyyyy over build machine, super small table, china components all over
04:10 AM fragalot: sounds like mine, lol
04:11 AM pink_vampire|2: fragalot: to rotate it in 90 deg, just make the spindle sagging
04:12 AM Wolf__: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpJtV3IREeQ it cuts…
04:13 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: That's what i meant :-)
04:13 AM pink_vampire|2: air based clamp https://i.imgur.com/XU44QDq.png
04:14 AM fragalot: hehe
04:14 AM * fragalot really wishes he had Inventor on his laptop instead of Fusion
04:16 AM pink_vampire|2: at the end of the video there is very noticeable machining marks. I have no idea why, there is ton of steel and aluminum to the frame that he build
04:16 AM fragalot: worn endmill
04:16 AM fragalot: speeds&feeds issue
04:16 AM XXCoder: 1 flute gets wear pretty fast
04:16 AM XXCoder: and yeah he said he was adjusting feed and rpm all over
04:16 AM XXCoder: hearing it out and all that
04:17 AM jthornton: morning
04:17 AM fragalot: mornin' jthornton
04:17 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: if Ichs doesn't give me a good solution for the Z today I'll just scrap this whole design I think
04:17 AM pink_vampire|2: Ichs?
04:18 AM XXCoder: tjhat germany guy who comes in here sometimes.
04:18 AM Wolf__: he also didn’t have that plate held down very well
04:18 AM XXCoder: he makes hundreds of cnc machines a year I think
04:18 AM XXCoder: small ones for schools
04:18 AM pink_vampire|2: but the Z axis on them is very small
04:19 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: out of morbin curiousity, what do you do for a living? (if you don't mind sharing)
04:19 AM Wolf__: did you say that the DIY VMC vid machine was small?
04:20 AM XXCoder: pink that rough texture seems to be planned
04:20 AM XXCoder: looks cool
04:21 AM pink_vampire|2: fragalot: keep my heart ticking
04:21 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: interesting. I have someone to do that for me.
04:21 AM XXCoder: that may well be best honest sarastic answer ever
04:21 AM jthornton: fragalot: what's up with your Z
04:21 AM pink_vampire|2: you right.. i need a wife
04:22 AM fragalot: jthornton: I don't like it.
04:22 AM fragalot: feels out of proportion with the rest of the machine
04:22 AM fragalot: I /could/ add bracing all over, but that feels wrong.
04:22 AM XXCoder: also, tangeally related:https://i.pinimg.com/736x/df/3f/e4/df3fe4d2ccb45fbcdc742ec1bb740d6b--scary-stuff-clowns.jpg
04:23 AM jthornton: is it a bit weak
04:23 AM pink_vampire|2: mmm
04:23 AM fragalot: Part of me thinks I'll just go with it & see what happens
04:23 AM pink_vampire|2: i got new toy(s) today
04:24 AM fragalot: another part of me doesn't want to waste a grand on a frame if a different design is better
04:24 AM XXCoder: fragalot: 3 Z rails? though may be overconstrained
04:24 AM fragalot: XXCoder: there are no 3 Z rails
04:24 AM Wolf__: 3 rails would be a total nightmare to align
04:24 AM Loetmichel: *coughing fit* maan, i am NOT really back to healthy... morning anyways.
04:24 AM fragalot: with bracing I mean rather than have a | plate I'd add side plates to make an I-beam structure
04:25 AM XXCoder: Wolf__: true yeah.
04:25 AM jthornton: got a close up photo of the Z
04:25 AM pink_vampire|2: fragalot: look at the datron Z axis
04:26 AM pink_vampire|2: if you get me one I promise to send you pictures of the Z axis
04:26 AM fragalot: https://sites.google.com/site/l3viathan/z-axis_exploded_2.png <== side plate bracing
04:27 AM Wolf__: https://www.datron.com/images/Gantry_Machining_Center/Gantry_Machining_Center_ML1500-2.jpg ?
04:28 AM Wolf__: not so helpful seeing all you see is covers
04:28 AM pink_vampire|2: Wolf__: it is support on 3 rails 2 on the front and one on the back if i see it correctly
04:28 AM XXCoder: vacuum hold *cringes*
04:29 AM jthornton: fragalot: is that what your thinking of doing adding the vertical stiffeners?
04:29 AM fragalot: nothing wrong with a vacuum table
04:29 AM gloops: that is a moving gantry?
04:29 AM fragalot: jthornton: it is a consideration. The other is starting over & make a column based design rather than a gantry
04:29 AM fragalot: gloops: yes.
04:30 AM gloops: not the best design at all
04:30 AM XXCoder: fragalot: normally.
04:30 AM XXCoder: it never went well for long at old place I worked at
04:30 AM XXCoder: used so much goralla tape
04:30 AM fragalot: you're using it wrong then :P
04:31 AM gloops: that design is largely relying on the brute strength of the sections and bearings to counter the leverage
04:32 AM XXCoder: well it was literally my first year of using cnc machines lol and its pros there that set it that way
04:32 AM fragalot: gloops: Datron isn't really known for it's flimsy machines, so i'm sure that they've done the math to ensure it holds up to the loads that are to be expected
04:32 AM gloops: im not a gantry expert through building them, but i have studied the designs over some time
04:32 AM XXCoder: you sure its not cmm but actual cnc router? lol
04:32 AM Wolf__: https://www.bidspotter.co.uk/it-it/auction-catalogues/peacock-auctioneers/catalogue-id-whpav10017/lot-0dec2b92-6fe4-44c9-b232-a1f2010a3ccd
04:32 AM gloops: the best designs often look awkward and gangly
04:33 AM Wolf__: still can’t tell whats under the covers, could be massive rails and trucks under
04:33 AM XXCoder: "Datron Cat 3D-M3 CNC router for plastics mounted on a steel framed work table Year: July 1997 - Serial No: 4750 (not serviceable) "
04:33 AM gloops: fragalot im sure it is fine, leverage and moment calculations dont matter if you use strong enough sections and components to cope with the maximum load
04:34 AM gloops: a router for plastic..ahh
04:34 AM Wolf__: XXCoder: was looking for anything that had more then a pic of just the front
04:34 AM fragalot: they always matter when it's your job to design these professionally
04:35 AM pink_vampire|2: https://i.imgur.com/d3nmzNI.png
04:35 AM pink_vampire|2: my new toy
04:35 AM jthornton: I should have extended the rails on my plasma past the end so I could use the whole table
04:35 AM Wolf__: i’m sorry
04:35 AM gloops: the X bearing footprint is tiny, the cutter is not central to to it
04:35 AM fragalot: gloops: watch this series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlOSYf7knpg
04:35 AM pink_vampire|2: why there is so meany angels?
04:36 AM Wolf__: horrible freight tooling ftw…
04:36 AM XXCoder: probably can make better tool holders yourself
04:36 AM XXCoder: then buy carbide inserts
04:36 AM Wolf__: tool holders are fine, the inserts totally suck
04:37 AM pink_vampire|2: people say they good
04:37 AM fragalot: oh my
04:37 AM fragalot: you even get spare screws!
04:37 AM Wolf__: then again, for 7x10 lathe
04:37 AM fragalot: those are expensive if you need to buy them separately :D
04:37 AM pink_vampire|2: for 18$...
04:37 AM XXCoder: cjheap for 5 yeah
04:37 AM fragalot: it's alright for the price, really
04:37 AM Wolf__: so most people never even get them up to speed to really cut
04:37 AM pink_vampire|2: it is gong to be for the 1X3 lathe
04:37 AM XXCoder: heh facemill inserts is $20 each :P
04:38 AM Wolf__: yeah XXCoder
04:38 AM XXCoder: more quality ones for better ramp down support is $40 each, and one facemill uses 6 of em
04:38 AM XXCoder: and one guy screwed up and broke all of em at once
04:38 AM fragalot: I usually just run the carbide until it's dull for roughing, and then grind them to make my own inserts
04:38 AM XXCoder: so essentally zero minutes for $240 tooling.. lol
04:39 AM Wolf__: XXCoder: https://i.imgur.com/hx0vvs6.jpg
04:39 AM XXCoder: what is those? dont look like carbide
04:39 AM Wolf__: carbide…
04:39 AM XXCoder: used to gold-like ones I guess :P
04:39 AM Wolf__: toshiba
04:39 AM XXCoder: or silverish
04:40 AM pink_vampire|2: they look and feel VERY nice
04:40 AM XXCoder: pink honestly whatever works works
04:40 AM pink_vampire|2: lets make a test run on 1/2" brass
04:40 AM Wolf__: yeah, you’re use to seeing the fancy stuff where cutting seconds off cycle times count
04:40 AM pink_vampire|2: but why there is 5 angels??
04:41 AM Wolf__: lr2lathe
04:41 AM pink_vampire|2: ?????
04:41 AM Wolf__: + QCTH
04:41 AM Wolf__: https://i.imgur.com/LZJwoLW.jpg
04:41 AM XXCoder: angekls
04:41 AM XXCoder: oh! angles?
04:42 AM Deejay: plexiglas detected
04:42 AM XXCoder: I am not too familiar with lathes but certain angles cut better than others for certain uses
04:42 AM Wolf__: you can’t angle the work in the lathe, and waste time turning the tool holder for every profile on a part
04:42 AM pink_vampire|2: Wolf__: WOW
04:43 AM pink_vampire|2: just clean the mess
04:43 AM XXCoder: hes better organized than some other I saw in videos
04:43 AM fragalot: haha
04:43 AM XXCoder: but yeah bit messy
04:43 AM Wolf__: lol yeah
04:44 AM fragalot: gotta love quickchange toolholders though
04:45 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: basically every angle has it's own use
04:45 AM Wolf__: lathe cutting tools is a art in its own
04:46 AM XXCoder: lathe is over 3500 years old
04:46 AM XXCoder: mill is way less years old lol not even 100 yet?
04:46 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: from left to right: cutting shoulders on the right or chamfering on the left; mirrored ; cutting chamfers or roughing passes, or turning down the middle seections; then 2 roughing cutters
04:47 AM XXCoder: pink_vampire|2: maybe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J63dZsw7Ia4
04:48 AM pink_vampire|2: fragalot: i see
04:49 AM pink_vampire|2: I think to mount them this way
04:49 AM pink_vampire|2: https://i.imgur.com/YTKSelu.jpg
04:50 AM XXCoder: is spacing larger than max stock rod you plan to cut?
04:50 AM Wolf__: eh, going to try to gang tooling on mill lathe
04:50 AM pink_vampire|2: the max stock is 7/8""
04:52 AM pink_vampire|2: any idea for gang holder?
04:54 AM Wolf__: for a cnc mill, I got nothing really
04:54 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: for that price, just bolt the holders down, :P
04:55 AM fragalot: alternatively, let me go take a picture of what I did for my cutter grinder
04:55 AM fragalot: brb
04:56 AM pink_vampire|2: but i need to make sure all the tips on the same level
04:56 AM pink_vampire|2: ok
04:56 AM Wolf__: its a handy once in a while trick, but if you are at the point of needing gang tooling for turning work, get a lathe
04:57 AM pink_vampire|2: i want mini swiss machine
04:59 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: https://imgur.com/a/T1rSD
04:59 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: you don't need them all to be perfectly at the same height, each tool can have it's own known offset
05:00 AM pink_vampire|2: look very elegant design
05:01 AM Wolf__: build a tool turret https://www.techspex.com/cdn/cms/tsugami_bh20-38.jpg
05:02 AM pink_vampire|2: i dont need much of a clearance the max stock diameter is 7/8"
05:03 AM Wolf__: http://www.sdmfabricating.com/Tormach/P1000364.JPG
05:03 AM fragalot: hlaps1990 has a really neat toolchanger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXvrfDqYI3s
05:03 AM pink_vampire|2: i saw that video
05:03 AM Wolf__: or http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=159360&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1389529824
05:04 AM XXCoder: or single holder that is super repeatable
05:04 AM XXCoder: so you could just swap em
05:04 AM fragalot: easier to just get a quickchange system if you're going to be swapping tools out
05:04 AM XXCoder: thats what I mean
05:05 AM * jthornton sees if he can get sshfs to work this morning
05:18 AM XXCoder: https://futurism.com/secret-ios-source-code-leaked-internet/
05:21 AM fragalot: so.. they leaked the bootloader?
05:22 AM fragalot: that's an embedded devs' worst nightmare, lol
05:26 AM XXCoder: looks like. iphone 9
05:26 AM XXCoder: so some exploits might not work, but then may work
05:27 AM XXCoder: know what?
05:27 AM XXCoder: I would "leak" all versions and see what comes up before release'
05:27 AM fragalot: it's a bootloader
05:27 AM XXCoder: fixes em up and use it
05:27 AM fragalot: if there's anything they were unlikely to have updated much, it's that
05:27 AM XXCoder: less chance of finding wild exploit
05:27 AM XXCoder: maybe not
05:36 AM fragalot: hey miss0r
05:36 AM miss0r: hey
05:37 AM miss0r: I finished the part yesterday. I think you left before i got to posting the picture
05:37 AM miss0r: yesterday... the day before yesterday that is
05:37 AM miss0r: https://imgur.com/a/CNe6K
05:38 AM pink_vampire|2: i have no idea what is what, but it's look amazing
05:38 AM pink_vampire|2: that*
05:39 AM miss0r: Its part of 1/2 of the shell that mounts and enclosures the small RC servo on the back of my EDM spindle
05:39 AM fragalot: miss0r: have you fitted it yet?
05:40 AM miss0r: The servo, yes. But I have not bolted it to the spindle yet, I still have to drill'n tap that end of the housing for it to fit
05:40 AM fragalot: I'm really curious if it's going to work :P
05:40 AM miss0r: I have held it in place with my hands, and had the servo run, so that part works fine
05:41 AM miss0r: By the way - thanks pink_vampire|2
05:41 AM jthornton: now I'm back to sshfs read: Connection reset by peer
05:42 AM pink_vampire|2: how is the lathe tools get clamped here? http://www.cnczone.com/forums/news-announcements/153900-tormach.html
05:43 AM miss0r: I would guess the bolts on the side are compressing a wedge
05:43 AM XXCoder: voooodoooooo
05:44 AM pink_vampire|2: do you think there is a better design?
05:44 AM miss0r: yes. You can see the wedge
05:44 AM fragalot: wedges are quite good, but difficult to make
05:44 AM miss0r: pink_vampire|2: Better design? For what exactly/what needs? This is also how alot of the bigger machines hold the tools on the turret
05:45 AM pink_vampire|2: for my mill
05:45 AM miss0r: So, you basically want the same ?
05:45 AM miss0r: just without the wedges?
05:45 AM pink_vampire|2: https://i.imgur.com/YTKSelu.jpg
05:46 AM miss0r: if you could fit it, you can just hold the tools with a row of bolts
05:46 AM miss0r: but looking at it, I would say the wedges are pretty ideal
05:47 AM miss0r: You can easily make them yourself - Your spindle can swivel, right?
05:47 AM pink_vampire|2: yes
05:47 AM miss0r: Then why not make the wedges?
05:47 AM pink_vampire|2: i don't have a design
05:48 AM miss0r: I can slam one together for you in sketchup in 5 minuts
05:48 AM miss0r: Whats the dimensions of your toolholders?
05:48 AM pink_vampire|2: the shank?
05:49 AM miss0r: yeah
05:49 AM pink_vampire|2: 1/4" x 1/4"
05:49 AM miss0r: so ~12mm
05:50 AM pink_vampire|2: 6.35
05:50 AM pink_vampire|2: 12 is 1/2" mine are 1/4" so 6.35mm
05:55 AM jthornton: I didn't have this much trouble sshfs into the pi last time wtf did I forget to do
05:55 AM pink_vampire|2: did you mount it?
05:55 AM pink_vampire|2: did the service is running?
05:55 AM jthornton: that's what I'm trying to do lol
05:56 AM jthornton: dunno
05:56 AM pink_vampire|2: how to i measure the diameter of the hole in the insert?
05:57 AM pink_vampire|2: on the bottom is 3/32" on the top is 1/8"
05:57 AM pink_vampire|2: 2.38125 on the bottom and 3.175 on the top
05:58 AM miss0r: www.proto-design.dk/files/test.skp
05:58 AM miss0r: See if that works, pink_vampire|2
05:59 AM miss0r: well. doh
05:59 AM pink_vampire|2: Not Found The requested URL /files/test.skp was not found on this server. Apache/2.4.10 (Debian) Server at www.proto-design.dk Port 80
05:59 AM gloops: 'near enough showroom condition' but they were never these colours https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/175874076360623
05:59 AM miss0r: odd
06:00 AM miss0r: pink_vampire|2: What is your mail adr? (you'll have to change some dimensions of the drawing, but you'll get the idea)
06:00 AM miss0r: pm me
06:00 AM miss0r: that link realy should work :S
06:00 AM pink_vampire|2: i got the file now
06:01 AM pink_vampire|2: but how do i open it?
06:01 AM miss0r: Download google sketchup
06:01 AM jthornton: damn finally found a web page with the correct way to mount with sshfs
06:01 AM pink_vampire|2: mmm
06:01 AM pink_vampire|2: lets see
06:01 AM miss0r: I know I know. But that software is second to none(in my opinion) when it comes to making quick sketches in 3D
06:03 AM miss0r: Thats some realy small shanks lol :] But you'll get the idea of what is needed, with the sketch
06:03 AM miss0r: Also, You'll want to up the thickness of the bottom of this construction, if you want to install it in a vise
06:04 AM pink_vampire|2: how did you calculate the wadge?
06:05 AM miss0r: I just did it by feel
06:05 AM Phipliv: Technically, the power is out, but the power company is supplying half our street with a generator
06:05 AM Phipliv: I want their generator
06:05 AM jthornton: wow what happened?
06:06 AM miss0r: This is a stationery setup i.e. not a surface that will see alot of wear. Basically the closer you get to 90degrees the more power the wedge exerts to the side, but it will move less
06:06 AM Phipliv: They have both an open phase and phase to phase fault
06:06 AM Phipliv: making it tricky to find
06:06 AM miss0r: So i just think this is a quick and dirty way to get it done. Also: you'd want to enlarge the holes through the wedge, to allow for the sideway motion
06:07 AM Phipliv: sounds like something went bang to me - been broken for 5 hours so far
06:07 AM jthornton: all of your services are under ground?
06:07 AM Phipliv: intermittent yesterday too
06:07 AM miss0r: pink_vampire|2: I'll be back later. I'm taking the kid to the playgound
06:07 AM pink_vampire|2: so one is 90 deg, and the other one is tapered?
06:07 AM pink_vampire|2: cool!!
06:08 AM miss0r: one side of the holder yes
06:08 AM Phipliv: jthornton : right here yes, not everywhere
06:08 AM miss0r: but there are two tapered surfaces. So that the inside of the shank holder has two parallel sides
06:08 AM miss0r: Is what I am saying making sense?
06:08 AM jthornton: we are odd here with underground services out in the woods but better than being on poles and getting knocked down by trees
06:09 AM pink_vampire|2: mmmm
06:09 AM pink_vampire|2: I'm not 100% sure
06:09 AM pink_vampire|2: but i get the idea
06:09 AM Phipliv: my parents power follows the road on poles I think
06:09 AM miss0r: pink_vampire|2: I will be back later today. See you
06:10 AM pink_vampire|2: alright and thanks!!
06:10 AM gloops: kind of machine? https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1615837728460953
06:11 AM Phipliv: lots of the high voltage stuff is on pylons
06:11 AM pink_vampire|2: gloops: what is that?
06:11 AM Phipliv: but obviously, when it isn't, I don't see it!
06:11 AM gloops: no idea
06:12 AM Phipliv: Sounds like this fault is on the 240v 3ph in the street/area anyway
06:12 AM gloops: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1438961239563750
06:12 AM pink_vampire|2: I have no idea either, but get me one just in case
06:12 AM gloops: some decent stuff on facebook marketplace, this could kill ebay
06:14 AM gloops: pink_vampire its a knitting machine lol
06:14 AM gloops: i wondered what all those looms overhead were for
06:14 AM gloops: that must be some expensive kit
06:15 AM pink_vampire|2: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2116297218599291
06:16 AM pink_vampire|2: I have no idea either, but get me one just in case
06:17 AM gloops: well enough window shopping for me, ive done too much buying and not enough earning
06:19 AM pink_vampire|2: how do i identify the code fore the lathe inset?
06:19 AM pink_vampire|2: what is "Inscribed Circle Size"
06:25 AM IchGucksLive: hi
06:25 AM Phipliv: Morning Ich
06:25 AM IchGucksLive: its afternoon here
06:25 AM Phipliv: and here :p
06:25 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: still on
06:28 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: yes
06:28 AM IchGucksLive: i got the construction here
06:30 AM IchGucksLive: FEM analytics show strength up
06:36 AM pink_vampire|2: what is the smallest parting inserted tool for lathe?
06:43 AM IchGucksLive: pink_vampire|2: 0,8mm i know
06:43 AM IchGucksLive: with HSS as small as you can grind
06:44 AM pink_vampire|2: 1mm ill be fine
06:44 AM IchGucksLive: 1mm is the Safty ring size
06:45 AM pink_vampire|2: do you have any ling or something?
06:46 AM fragalot: I have a .3mm HSS grooving tool I ground that i've used for parting in the past
06:46 AM fragalot: it's not very long though, lol
06:47 AM pink_vampire|2: i ant something about 15mm length
06:47 AM pink_vampire|2: now i have one that i ground
06:47 AM pink_vampire|2: i want inserted
06:50 AM IchGucksLive: pink_vampire|2: 2mm is the cheepest
06:50 AM IchGucksLive: <20USD
06:51 AM pink_vampire|2: link?
06:51 AM IchGucksLive: MGEHR1010
06:52 AM pink_vampire|2: abit ugly
06:52 AM IchGucksLive: inserts MGMN200
06:54 AM IchGucksLive: if you can clamp 12 by 12 on holder go MGEHR1212 or15 or 20
06:54 AM pink_vampire|2: i have room for 1/4"
06:54 AM pink_vampire|2: 6.35mm
06:55 AM IchGucksLive: the holder size
06:55 AM pink_vampire|2: yes
06:55 AM pink_vampire|2: IchGucksLive: https://i.imgur.com/YTKSelu.jpg
06:55 AM IchGucksLive: og 1616 not 1515
06:56 AM IchGucksLive: this is the BIT what fits the Holder
06:57 AM pink_vampire|2: the shank is 1/4" by 1/4"
07:01 AM IchGucksLive: i dont think ther is a Grooving for this
07:06 AM IchGucksLive: im off
07:18 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: http://a360.co/2sq5LP6
07:19 AM pink_vampire|2: loading...
07:20 AM pink_vampire|2: it will flex like a parallelogram
07:21 AM fragalot: everything flexes eventually
07:22 AM fragalot: the question here is; are the cutting forces that a 2.2kW spindle with an 8mm endmill or drill bit can generate going to be a problem
07:22 AM sync: s/eventually/all the time/
07:22 AM fragalot: That too
07:28 AM pink_vampire|2: what is the fastest way to kill 12 minutes?
07:30 AM Tom_L: irc
07:30 AM fragalot: redesign a gantry mill to be a column mill with a mouse that double clicks
07:30 AM fragalot: takes 12 minutes just to draw a square
07:31 AM fragalot: Though I'm keeping this current gantry design as a backup
07:32 AM pink_vampire|2: get a space navigator
07:32 AM fragalot: had one at work
07:32 AM fragalot: they are GREAT.
07:33 AM fragalot: I'm not in the CAD side of things anymore since 4 months now though so I donated it to a colleague that just started
07:33 AM fragalot: many regrets :P
07:34 AM pink_vampire|2: hope it was one of the cheapis..
07:35 AM fragalot: hp spacepilot usb
07:38 AM pink_vampire|2: i have the space pilot pro
07:39 AM pink_vampire|2: amazing device
07:39 AM fragalot: Aye
07:40 AM pink_vampire|2: this is the newest version https://www.3dconnexion.com/products/spacemouse/spacemouse-enterprise.html
07:40 AM sync: I found it relatively useless tbh
07:40 AM sync: I mean, it is ok to navigate with it but apart from it I like a regular mouse more
07:40 AM fragalot: of course
07:40 AM fragalot: they are meant for navigation only
07:41 AM fragalot: you still use your mouse & keyboard like you would normally
07:41 AM pink_vampire|2: try to do large assemblies without it
07:42 AM pink_vampire|2: sync: right hand is on the mouse, the left hand is on the space navigator / keyboard
07:42 AM fragalot: to be honest i'd be happy with just the navigator part & a little ergonomic mat in front of it
07:42 AM malcom2073: I have one of their older ones, I could never get used to using it
07:42 AM fragalot: I never liked the buttons
07:43 AM malcom2073: https://www.3dconnexion.com/products/spacemouse/spacenavigator.html
07:43 AM malcom2073: That one
07:43 AM pink_vampire|2: naaa
07:43 AM malcom2073: It sits pretty unused on a shelf heh
07:44 AM pink_vampire|2: the buttons and the screen are very helpful
07:44 AM malcom2073: The screen is kinda cool
07:44 AM sync: pink_vampire|2: yes, large assemblies are fine without one
07:44 AM sync: I just don't like it
07:44 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: I found them to be difficult to get to on the "standard" model
07:46 AM pink_vampire|2: i'm using them alot to rotate the model
07:46 AM pink_vampire|2: and also there is the esc, shift right on it
07:47 AM fragalot: I meant the F keys to do add constraints etc
07:47 AM fragalot: personal preference I guess :)
08:36 AM gloops: a day off cnc, up to now
08:42 AM gloops: a thought did cross my mind while doing other things, i will be upgrading motors, and i will also be building a lathe, already have 2 screws and bearing sets for the lathe, when i change the motors on this machine ill have 2 spare motors, thats another positive!
08:48 AM pink_vampire|2: why do you build a lathe?
08:48 AM gloops: for round things
08:48 AM pink_vampire|2: you can get one super cheap
08:48 AM gloops: wood lathe
08:48 AM pink_vampire|2: even cheaper
08:49 AM gloops: i want to cnc it, ive got a vintage wood lathe i was going to use as a base but it has increased in value, i think ill keep that for manual
08:49 AM pink_vampire|2: what size ?
08:49 AM gloops: i have got a tailstock already though, ive some large thrust bearings for a headstock, ill make one
08:49 AM gloops: it takes about 800mm i think
08:49 AM gloops: myford ml8
08:50 AM pink_vampire|2: 800 mm cnc lathe?
08:50 AM gloops: oh the cnc yes i want that 800mm at least
08:50 AM gloops: table leg is around 750mm
08:51 AM pink_vampire|2: i think it is better to make it as 4th axis if you want it as cnc
08:51 AM gloops: it is basically a 4 axis router
08:52 AM gloops: but i dont want it on my other router, they can both be used independently then
08:53 AM pink_vampire|2: in this case it is much much easier
08:55 AM gloops: which case?
08:57 AM pink_vampire|2: to make it as 4th axis, that mean much simpler control, and low speed stepper or servo
08:57 AM gloops: ive got a slab of granite the right size for the base, some box section steel, 2 screws and some linear rails left over, ill just keep accumulating stuff and build it as and when i get time
08:58 AM gloops: pink_vampire i think a stepper would do for the rotary, despite what many say
08:58 AM pink_vampire|2: no need for granite if you use a router, there is almost zero cutting force
08:59 AM gloops: well its a nice piece of stone and i wont use it for anything else, can just blam the rails straight to it, or fix some steel to it first and flatten down a bit
09:00 AM pink_vampire|2: the point is that it will be super heavy for no reason
09:05 AM gloops: it will help soak up vibration, i would need to make some kind of frame if i didnt use that, may as well make use of it
09:05 AM gloops: i might use some granite offcuts i have for plates as well
09:09 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Square-Marble-Granite-Worktop/332543438968?
09:10 AM gloops: you can get this stuff for next to nothing
09:10 AM pink_vampire|2: it's look like a counter top
09:11 AM gloops: yeah it is
09:11 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/granite-off-cuts-worktops/183000582204?
09:11 AM gloops: you can build the machine for £40 - the cost of one alu plate that bends like toffee
09:13 AM SpeedEvil: concrete paving slabs are even cheaper.
09:13 AM pink_vampire|2: lol
09:13 AM SpeedEvil: you will need to shim them a little
09:13 AM gregcnc: is 25mm granite any stiffer?
09:13 AM SpeedEvil: Granite is not very stiff
09:13 AM gregcnc: that's my point
09:13 AM gloops: SpeedEvil you can sneer this is good stuff
09:13 AM gloops: its as accurate as alu extrusions
09:14 AM gloops: you cant bend this
09:14 AM SpeedEvil: Granite has a youngs modulus comparable with aluminium
09:14 AM gloops: yes 25mm and wider plates for a few quid
09:14 AM gregcnc: we don't want to foul this with science and math
09:15 AM SpeedEvil: I'm not sneering.
09:15 AM gloops: ive got both right in my garage - the granite is superior and virtually free
09:15 AM gregcnc: epoxy 2-3 plates togeher then maybe
09:16 AM gloops: no need for wood machines
09:16 AM gregcnc: how do you tap it?
09:16 AM gloops: most people are using 12-20mm plates alu
09:16 AM gloops: bolt not tap
09:16 AM SpeedEvil: However, understanding basic properties - granite will sag a lot more than aluminium of teh same dimension - is important.
09:17 AM SpeedEvil: Granite is a _lot_ cheaper though, and you don't need to get much thicker for it to sag less under its own weight
09:17 AM gloops: its going to be on a steel table anyway, you got to support any kind of base
09:18 AM fragalot: has anyone tried basalt as an alternative to granite?
09:18 AM fragalot: it's much denser & harder than granite.. but it's also a lot easier to get 'round here :P
09:18 AM gloops: you can also brace it easily by gluing on fins underneath
09:18 AM SpeedEvil: fragalot: pretty much any homogenous rock should work fine
09:19 AM fragalot: Sweet.
09:19 AM SpeedEvil: Bonus points if your house is on contiguous bedrock that you can machine into accurate ways.
09:19 AM gloops: no fragalot, it isnt something many everyday items are made of
09:19 AM SpeedEvil: If you can get basalt slabs locally - you don't care about local rock - as the raw material costs are negligible
09:19 AM fragalot: i'm not talking about slabs
09:19 AM fragalot: I'm talking about my E/G mix :)
09:20 AM gloops: slate would be a good material
09:20 AM gloops: old pool table slates
09:20 AM fragalot: slate would be a horrible material for a machine
09:20 AM gloops: why would it?
09:20 AM fragalot: because of the way it fractures under stress
09:20 AM SpeedEvil: well - not really
09:20 AM SpeedEvil: once you're thick enough, it doesn't matter much
09:21 AM SpeedEvil: but, ...
09:21 AM gloops: lol, i dont think it would fracture, you can drop this off a 10 story building and not crack it
09:21 AM gloops: slate is naturally very flat, machines well, stiff
09:21 AM SpeedEvil: At some point 'my CNC only cost $100 to make' 'but it cost $3000 to hire a crane to get it out of my building' though
09:22 AM gregcnc: like those people who built airplanes or cars in their basement or apartment
09:23 AM gloops: weight is a positive in many things for a machine, resonance sponge
09:24 AM gloops: my machine may not be very fast but if theres one thing they cant say about it - is that it vibrates!
09:25 AM SpeedEvil: not if you ever need to move it - which was my point
09:25 AM gloops: i dont want to move it
09:25 AM gloops: plus it comes to pieces
09:26 AM gloops: btw gregcnc you appear to have been correct about the step settings
09:27 AM gregcnc: i wasn't guessing
09:27 AM gregcnc: did you try two PSU yet?
09:28 AM gloops: no i tried 2 motors only on one psu - it made a difference, im just pondering whether to get off my ass and wire the other psu up now
09:28 AM fragalot: largest part of my machine is only going to weigh ~190kg I can live with that.
09:28 AM fragalot: don't ponder, do!
09:29 AM gloops: i need to feel like, ive only got to connect z motor up and a few bits and bobs and im cutting
09:29 AM pink_vampire|2: how do you lift 190kg?
09:29 AM gloops: thats a car engine basically
09:31 AM gloops: easy to inch around with levers and rollers
09:32 AM fragalot: or an engine hoist that I'm planning to get eventually
09:32 AM archivist: jack and pack
09:32 AM gregcnc: as long as there are no stairs involved
09:32 AM fragalot: a smart man would indeed jack it up, I just lift it bit by bit kicking weights under it & regret doing that later
09:33 AM fragalot: gregcnc: I carried my lathe up to the attic & back down, lol
09:33 AM gregcnc: my lathe is in the basement, not looking forward to taking it out when the time comes
09:34 AM gloops: my old planer has an interesting table lifting mechanism, 4 lead screws vertical with a sprocket on each at the bottom and a chain round all 4 with a wheel, works very wheel
09:34 AM SpeedEvil: gregcnc: protip: be carried out first, so you don't have to deal with it
09:34 AM gloops: with the right sprockets that could lift a lot of weight very precisely
09:35 AM fragalot: gloops: you and I have a very different opinion of the word "precisely"
09:35 AM gloops: fragalot lead screws are precise, good enough for most machines
09:36 AM fragalot: leadscrews are indeed OK, but chain & sprocket links aren't
09:36 AM archivist: rattling fit precise
09:36 AM gregcnc: you still need ways to take loads?
09:36 AM gloops: minimal backlash in tensioned chain
09:36 AM gloops: i wasnt talking about for a machine cutting surface, merely to move the block up and down
09:37 AM pink_vampire|2: is there a way to connect a dro scale to the g320x instead of the encoder?
09:37 AM fragalot: pink_vampire|2: is there a difference? (signal wise)
09:37 AM pink_vampire|2: i have no idea
09:37 AM gregcnc: scales are linear encoders
09:38 AM pink_vampire|2: i never saw someone that did it
09:38 AM gregcnc: because there are concerns with doing so
09:39 AM pink_vampire|2: and i'm not sure what type of dro will work with the g320x
09:39 AM gregcnc: backlash would be a major problem in tuning that kind of drive
09:39 AM pink_vampire|2: i don't have backlash
09:39 AM gregcnc: maybe
09:40 AM fragalot: http://a360.co/2sq5LP6 <= unless someone talks me out of it, this is what i'm going to go with i think
09:40 AM gregcnc: just make sure the signal from the scale is compatible
09:41 AM pink_vampire|2: do you know about particular one?
09:41 AM gregcnc: fragaolot why the unusual rail arrangement on Z?
09:45 AM fragalot: gregcnc: recommendation from Ichs, it solves a clearance issue and adds rigidity
09:45 AM sync: not sure if that actually adds rigidity
09:45 AM gregcnc: that takes up less space somehow?
09:45 AM fragalot: gregcnc: it takes up more space, gives clerance for the ballscrew
09:45 AM gloops: what exactly is stepgen maxaccel?
09:45 AM pink_vampire|2: gloops: in linux cnc?
09:46 AM Rab: fragalot, do you plan to shim one/both of the Z-axis rails, or do you expect the assembly to fit closely enough?
09:46 AM gloops: pink yes
09:47 AM pink_vampire|2: gloops: i have no idea
09:47 AM pink_vampire|2: where did you saw it?
09:47 AM gloops: ini file
09:47 AM fragalot: Rab: more planning to have the bolt holes have some clearance to allow adjustments
09:47 AM gloops: no, hal
09:47 AM gloops: ill look in the docs
09:47 AM Rab: fragalot, I see.
09:47 AM pink_vampire|2: ok
09:47 AM malcom2073: gloops: STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 21.0 - Acceleration limit for the step generator. This should be 1% to 10% larger than the axis MAX_ACCELERATION. This value improves the tuning of stepgen’s "position loop". If you have added backlash compensation to an axis then this should be 1.5 to 2 times greater than MAX_ACCELERATION.
09:48 AM pink_vampire|2: i'm not in front of my machine.
09:49 AM gloops: thanks malcom
09:50 AM malcom2073: np
09:50 AM malcom2073: I had the docs open anyway heh
09:50 AM gloops: mine is considerably more than my max acceleration, but it does have negative effect when i reduce it a lot
09:51 AM pink_vampire|2: i think the acceleration is mm/s or something like that
09:52 AM pink_vampire|2: so you need to calculate the max rpm of your motor
09:53 AM gloops: ill read more
09:54 AM fragalot: acceleration is mm/s² normally
09:54 AM fragalot: how fast can it ramp up the speed
09:57 AM gregcnc: stepper torque output vs torque required to achieve actual axis acceleration
10:08 AM gloops: ok, now getting 4200mm/min reliable jog speed, well i say reliable, 10 times or so up and down
10:08 AM gloops: im pretty happy with that, if it is reliable, not done any real tests with dials or anything
10:09 AM Rab: gloops, did you figure out why the X axis was slow?
10:11 AM hazzy1 is now known as hazzy
10:11 AM gloops: Rab i think it was a combination of things, psu drain, i now only have 2 motors per psu, accel settings, and probably mainly noise - this is only possible with vfd switched off
10:11 AM gregcnc: well that's a big improvement
10:11 AM gregcnc: vfd powered up causes that much trouble?
10:11 AM gloops: it is a massive improvement, double speed
10:12 AM gloops: gregcnc with vfd on one motor acts totally weird, ok at slow speeds, but as soon as speed goes it, it grates, misses steps, runs slow, vibrates etc
10:12 AM gloops: i have no shielding anywhere atm
10:13 AM gregcnc: was this known before?
10:13 AM gloops: switch vfd off - motor runs same as the others
10:13 AM gloops: i knew i had no shielding but did not realise noise could do this much
10:17 AM gloops: cable ordered today be here for next weekend, ill get z ready and other bits, i could be trial cutting soon
10:23 AM fragalot: gloops: happen to have any online shops selling cast iron plates? :P (120x20x800)
10:26 AM gloops: http://www.wdsltd.co.uk/product/3185/rectangular-plate-cast-iron-thickness-from-12mm-25mm-wds-920/
10:26 AM fragalot: Fantastic. :D
10:27 AM gloops: £100 for a bit of cast!
10:27 AM fragalot: ..moving on.
10:27 AM gloops: id vut a lump off something with a dremel before pay that
10:27 AM fragalot: lol
10:27 AM fragalot: don't be ridiculous
10:28 AM fragalot: nobody would prefer using a dremel
10:28 AM gloops: i wouldnt pay that
10:28 AM fragalot: wel no
10:28 AM gloops: you can get a cast engineers plate on ebay for ten bob
10:31 AM * fragalot needs a generic "-kitchen" search modifier
10:31 AM fragalot: you wouldn't believe how many synonyms there are for a freaking cast iron pan
10:32 AM TurBoss: Hello
10:32 AM fragalot: Hi TurBoss
10:32 AM TurBoss: o/
10:32 AM SpeedEvil: fragalot: give up.
10:32 AM fragalot: ok
10:32 AM SpeedEvil: Buy lots of cast iron pans and melt them together
10:32 AM fragalot: no no, you had me at "give up"
10:33 AM * fragalot sets up his own ebay store to sell off all of the kit he's already bought
10:33 AM TurBoss: has anyone experience with cielle machines? specially engravers
10:34 AM TurBoss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSSRNUml0do
10:46 AM IchGucksLive: hi Friends
10:46 AM fragalot: hey IchGucksLive
10:46 AM IchGucksLive: gloo how did it come out
10:46 AM fragalot: his client crashed
10:46 AM IchGucksLive: as long as not the mashine
10:46 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: do you know any good sources for cast iron plates? approxi. (120x20x800)
10:47 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: gloops his machine runs now - main cause seemed to be the VFD and acceleration settings
10:47 AM IchGucksLive: next metal shop
10:47 AM fragalot: and also he moved 1 stepper to the other power supply to spread the load
10:47 AM IchGucksLive: as i said him never use the 12V from the VFD to source the BOB
10:47 AM IchGucksLive: he dident beleve me
10:47 AM fragalot: nope :P
10:49 AM IchGucksLive: if you realy run a god mashine you need to Puffer the PSU on eatch driver by 22000uF up to 2F
10:50 AM fragalot: I've currently got 6400uF 100V for each driver on mine
10:50 AM fragalot: I'll see how that works and add more capacity if needed
10:52 AM IchGucksLive: https://www.reichelt.de/bilder/blaetterkatalog/B2C/DE-DE/hkaktuell//index.html?SID=95Wn8iw6wQATQAAAfkaNU203ee9a31e968a72a92b39b61624be33#page_996
10:55 AM IchGucksLive: on gloops 36V he shoudt use a 10mF 63V
10:55 AM IchGucksLive: its 2,50 eatch
10:59 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: i wonder if i shoudt set up a goldcap 0,1F to the BOB and check if i can go to the limit at 280khz
11:00 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: no idea, it depends on whether it's really the power source, or noise coming from the VFD acting on the signal wires.
11:01 AM IchGucksLive: it has a BOSCH 500 30 Euro Spindle so only Vibrations
11:01 AM IchGucksLive: no VFD
11:01 AM fragalot: that has a universal motor, which is also horrible for noise
11:02 AM IchGucksLive: best to mill in free air
11:02 AM fragalot: but it's worth trying anyway, adding capacitance to power supplies never hurts :-)
11:02 AM IchGucksLive: i will check this on the next order
11:03 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: I'm not sure though if you really need 0.1F just for a BOB
11:03 AM fragalot: there is no real current draw on those boards
11:03 AM fragalot: so a smaller, faster, capacitor may work better
11:05 AM IchGucksLive: gold caps are realy good
11:06 AM IchGucksLive: 470uf is standard 16V
11:07 AM IchGucksLive: there he is
11:08 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: ?
11:08 AM gloops: ?
11:09 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: how did it coome out on my guess
11:09 AM gloops: im afraid you were incorrect Ichs, the step settings seem to be in base periods
11:10 AM gloops: 1 and 0 work, 3000 doesnt
11:10 AM IchGucksLive: you shoudt set the baseperiod to 30000
11:11 AM gloops: well i put it to 25000 just to be safe
11:11 AM IchGucksLive: ok nice
11:12 AM gloops: i should run the latency test again and enter accurate value
11:13 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: what we just discussed is Adding a Capatitor to the Driver investing 4Pounds of hard money
11:13 AM gloops: what does that do Ichs?
11:14 AM gloops: btw much of the problem seems to be noise - a lot better when vfd is turned off
11:14 AM IchGucksLive: getting you a 63V 10mF
11:14 AM IchGucksLive: per Driver
11:14 AM fragalot: gloops: capacitors provide a good surge supply of current when needed, and filters out some noise from the power supply
11:15 AM gloops: i am getting 4200mm/min jog speed now which is not bad i dont think
11:15 AM IchGucksLive: that is good
11:15 AM IchGucksLive: did you run my test
11:15 AM gloops: where is this capacitor added? in line before the driver?
11:15 AM IchGucksLive: with dials on both sides
11:15 AM IchGucksLive: direct on Driver
11:15 AM IchGucksLive: VDD GND
11:16 AM fragalot: gloops: in parallel, as close to the driver as possible
11:16 AM gloops: not run any tests yet Ichs, have only spent a few minutes with it today, got too much other stuff to do for a while
11:16 AM IchGucksLive: ok
11:16 AM gloops: well ill have a look at doing that maybe when everything else is done
11:16 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: did you look in my file
11:16 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: for the Z? Yes, I changed my design already
11:17 AM fragalot: gloops: this is my cabinet (cable gutters not shown) https://imgur.com/a/mQIeq
11:17 AM IchGucksLive: did you check if you can load this in 360
11:17 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: it showed me a preview but it would not let me click "OK"
11:17 AM IchGucksLive: i got no windoof here
11:17 AM fragalot: so I think they can load it, but just don't allow it
11:17 AM gloops: vfd and all in one box fragalot?
11:18 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: http://a360.co/2sq5LP6 <- this is what i'm going with
11:18 AM fragalot: gloops: yes, the cables will be shielded, and I will have EMI shielding around the VFD if needed.
11:19 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: is this 12V 5V duak
11:19 AM IchGucksLive: MW
11:19 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: the smaller supply on the left is 24V
11:20 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: this is what i talked aboud
11:20 AM IchGucksLive: <- SMILES
11:20 AM fragalot: :-)
11:21 AM fragalot: there's separate routing paths for the high noise stuff, and the signal stuff
11:21 AM IchGucksLive: you can play with the distances to get more movement
11:22 AM fragalot: the momvement now is OK. I did extend the Y a bit though
11:22 AM fragalot: I don't want to put the carriages too close together either as that just increases leverage
11:22 AM IchGucksLive: on my dsign it is 180mm Wide
11:23 AM IchGucksLive: all straigt blocks
11:23 AM IchGucksLive: the Edge Down under will trouble
11:24 AM fragalot: at the moment I have 290x450x200mm of travel (XYZ)
11:25 AM IchGucksLive: at spindle mesurment i discoverd the standard round is 80mm Diameter the one in the Square is only 63
11:25 AM IchGucksLive: how they do this or only foul US
11:25 AM fragalot: no idea
11:27 AM IchGucksLive: you did the same length for spinlde holder then the rail length i see you loos 50mm with that
11:28 AM fragalot: Ahhhh good catch
11:28 AM IchGucksLive: as Z220 travel is 280mm side plate and 350 mount plate
11:28 AM IchGucksLive: and on this it is a AUTO move to get the Edge edged
11:29 AM IchGucksLive: NON Block Block design
11:29 AM fragalot: You lost me.
11:29 AM IchGucksLive: You klike to go Direct mount as i see
11:30 AM IchGucksLive: now you got non moving Frame Z to get the Motor beond
11:30 AM IchGucksLive: with timingbelt i i showed
11:30 AM IchGucksLive: 12Nm AT5 25mm
11:31 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: are you making the concrede stuff yourself
11:31 AM fragalot: I felt the timing belt only added parts; I have no issue with the motor being mounted where it is now
11:31 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: yes
11:31 AM IchGucksLive: then add also a pocket for the Y Stepepr to the side
11:31 AM IchGucksLive: and i woudt also go for the X
11:32 AM IchGucksLive: so complete coverd Motors within the Frame
11:32 AM IchGucksLive: Ofcause on ATR5
11:32 AM fragalot: they are mostly inside of the frame, only the X sticks out a little bit
11:33 AM IchGucksLive: with 10mmm Noice Woole it is silent around
11:33 AM IchGucksLive: OK ypou did a 100% increase today
11:34 AM fragalot: Danke.
11:34 AM IchGucksLive: only idees to be thought
11:35 AM IchGucksLive: this as a mesurment 0,0001 mahine on glasdialers woudt pay you 60k USD
11:36 AM fragalot: you are assuming I will be able to scrape in the rails to 0.0001mm
11:36 AM fragalot: if I get 0.005 I will be a happy camper.
11:37 AM fragalot: if I get a 100% repetable 0.01, I will still be happy :P
11:37 AM IchGucksLive: imcalled off for evening dinner i got Carnaval Guests to sleep
11:37 AM fragalot: have fun
11:52 AM gloops: im going to leave the vfd outside of the main electrics box when i do mine
11:52 AM fragalot: I don't want chips in mine, and I don't want to pay for a second cabinet
11:53 AM fragalot: plus I used to do this for 5 years with much larger drives with no issues, it's all about planning & doing it right.
11:53 AM fragalot: above 4kW we typically use an external IP rated drive though
11:54 AM fragalot: but those are not hobby price range :P
11:57 AM gloops: so about 160 ipm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf5p-7VZmcs&feature=youtu.be
11:57 AM gloops: worst vid ever lol
11:58 AM fragalot: sounds a bit odd, like something's off-center
11:59 AM gloops: probably is
12:07 PM gloops: its the best its run yet anyway, no snarling up or missing now, maybe a bit more in it, i can still press the spindle and not stop it with some fair force
12:07 PM gloops: so thats that chapter closed! touch wood
12:07 PM fragalot: :)
12:08 PM archivist: cut wood!
12:09 PM gloops: still a bit of work to do yet
12:11 PM gloops: it is only put together for basic trial, like ichs was asking me to do those accuracy tests, its not ready for that yet, that off centre sound was probably the small pulleys on the screws
12:13 PM IchGucksLive: hi ;-)
12:13 PM fragalot: back already? :P
12:29 PM IchGucksLive: hi phipli
12:32 PM IchGucksLive: Foam Cutting with a Real Model -> https://s2.glbimg.com/fLpQNTWNroTRs03O8RPt8U-r5F4=/0x0:1900x1267/1344x0/smart/filters:strip_icc()/i.s3.glbimg.com/v1/AUTH_59edd422c0c84a879bd37670ae4f538a/internal_photos/bs/2018/W/N/V9emOiTHCmrFfJKkrq1w/stephanye-cristinne-132a9383-credito-celso-tavares-g1.jpg
12:33 PM IchGucksLive: Scale Up her Legs
12:33 PM fragalot: :-)
12:37 PM IchGucksLive: https://tinyurl.com/Foam-rio look at the details in Image 1
12:37 PM phipli: Evening IchGucksLive
12:38 PM IchGucksLive: the foam details of cause not the brounshugerd lady
12:38 PM fragalot: oh.
12:38 PM fragalot: IchGucksLive: they did do a pretty bad job though, those foam heads look nothing like the model!
12:38 PM fragalot: :)
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: wait till it is colored and shine spakels
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: 22meter tall is alowed this year
12:48 PM IchGucksLive: that is a way down if someone is falling from top
12:49 PM fragalot: yeah it's amazing what they make
12:49 PM IchGucksLive: and we will se some breakdowns of carros tonmght i guess
12:50 PM IchGucksLive: They got nothing in education Health public traffic .... BUT 12 Times 30+ Milion Spend on 1Hr 600m run
12:50 PM fragalot: it probably brings in a similar amount in tourism
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: its all about passion
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: and ofcause glorry
12:52 PM gloops: brazil? could be wealthy but poor government
12:52 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: NHS service providr
12:52 PM fragalot: gloops: brazil is crippled under an insane import tax too
12:52 PM fragalot: the industry there is falling apart
12:52 PM IchGucksLive: like Kay Burly
12:52 PM gloops: the NHS is ok, too many immigrants
12:53 PM IchGucksLive: Brexit is nearing all will change to the good side
12:53 PM gloops: fragalot chavez threw out the oil contractors, oil revenues collapsed
12:54 PM gloops: thats swamp oil you need expertise to extract it and refine it
12:54 PM IchGucksLive: you cand Bye GAS in Brasil or Disel
12:54 PM IchGucksLive: They all run on Shugar RUM
12:54 PM gloops: + global oil glut - spiralling debts, shtf
12:55 PM gloops: you can run a diesel on cooking oil, even cooking oil thats been used to fry chips for a month
12:55 PM fragalot: not all diesels
12:55 PM fragalot: but it is possible to convert a lot of them
12:56 PM fragalot: because diesel was originally designed to run on peanut oil
12:56 PM gloops: my mates van smells like a fish and chip shop when it goes past - thats where he gets the oil
12:56 PM IchGucksLive: today i saw the Dubai solar Farm Build
12:56 PM gloops: just pour it in straight out the bottle fragalot
12:56 PM IchGucksLive: 7aq Miles are on
12:56 PM fragalot: IchGucksLive: Nice.
12:56 PM IchGucksLive: 50 in planing
12:57 PM IchGucksLive: They need so many water that rips up the profit
12:57 PM fragalot: gloops: assuming the diesel engine is converted or alreadyy compatible, and the oil used has been correctly filtered; sure.
12:57 PM IchGucksLive: 4 cleaning cycles a Day
12:58 PM fragalot: IchGucksLive: If it's just sahara dust, do they really need water to clean it?
12:58 PM fragalot: you would imagine brushes would work better
12:58 PM fragalot: or air
12:58 PM IchGucksLive: No
12:58 PM IchGucksLive: it sticks
12:58 PM gloops: netto started selling 4 gallon bottles of cooking oil - the cops were waiting in the carpark for people coming out with a trolley full
12:59 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: in germany 2
01:01 PM gloops: ridiculous how much duty is paid on fuel
01:01 PM fragalot: It's only going up too
01:01 PM IchGucksLive: it will get more if Synthetics go on Futher
01:01 PM fragalot: same for gas because it's now "too cheap compared to electricity"
01:02 PM IchGucksLive: Lithium candbe recycled
01:02 PM IchGucksLive: so we will run out on E-Motors
01:02 PM gloops: bring back water wheels on the rivers
01:02 PM fragalot: IchGucksLive: I still prefer hydrogen personally, at this point in time
01:02 PM gloops: the screw turbines are ok but they mince the fish
01:03 PM fragalot: lol
01:03 PM fragalot: I've always wanted a house in the middle of nowhere next to a stream
01:04 PM IchGucksLive: fragalot: Alaska
01:04 PM IchGucksLive: but to many ice month
01:04 PM fragalot: IchGucksLive: do you have any idea how much shipping is on goods from ebay to alaska?
01:04 PM fragalot: :D
01:04 PM IchGucksLive: Montana may run poout of water
01:05 PM IchGucksLive: and Down is flooding al the time
01:05 PM IchGucksLive: BESt to get immigrants to turn the shaft
01:06 PM miss0r: fragalot: The misses tells me to stay in the house with her watching series tonight. So I won't get to finish the electrode spindle before tomorrow
01:06 PM gloops: someone else having noise issues https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t35.0-12/s2048x2048/27046663_1579144162162272_1782614833_o.jpg?oh=d8e238795e7b0444472f5c0c69a46c9e&oe=5A80F84D
01:06 PM miss0r: I was actualy looking forward to that :)
01:06 PM IchGucksLive: Bye the way there are now farmers that Help Mexicans across to work on there fields
01:06 PM gloops: thats a fair old gantry lol
01:07 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: still on duty like me
01:07 PM miss0r: lol. I can name a few places that could make some noise :D
01:07 PM fragalot: miss0r: noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
01:07 PM miss0r: fragalot: I don't suppose you have anywhere better to be tomorrow ? :
01:08 PM IchGucksLive: im off 2 Bed last night carnavalk noice
01:08 PM miss0r: I also need to grind off 0.2mm of the diameter on the allenhead screws
01:08 PM IchGucksLive: 2 Gold medels for us today GER
01:08 PM fragalot: miss0r: I'll be on the internet trying to find cast iron suppliers for my build :P
01:08 PM IchGucksLive: Gn8
01:08 PM miss0r: nite
01:08 PM gloops: night
01:08 PM miss0r: fragalot: What do you need ? :]
01:08 PM fragalot: none of the local metal farms want to sell if you don't have a tax number
01:09 PM miss0r: so get a tax number?
01:09 PM fragalot: miss0r: 120x20x800 cast iron, and 20mm tooling plates
01:09 PM fragalot: miss0r: can't.
01:09 PM fragalot: my current contract states I can not have a side job
01:09 PM jym: fragalot: https://www.google.com/search?q=random+number+generator
01:09 PM miss0r: *sigh* stupid contracts
01:09 PM miss0r: lol @ jym
01:09 PM fragalot: miss0r: and even if it didn't; to have a tax number you must show a profit at the end of the year
01:10 PM fragalot: jym: hahah
01:10 PM miss0r: so, sell the cast iron to yourself with a 10% profit ?
01:11 PM fragalot: sell it to the dog
01:11 PM fragalot: but then i'd have to get a dog
01:11 PM miss0r: Enough rambling from me. I need to get back inside'n get a beer & watch some series with the misses (I just came here to turn off the computer) goodnight
01:11 PM fragalot: gnite!
01:24 PM gloops: lots of cast iron bar, no flat stuff, id call in the local foundry probably loads of plate laid around
01:25 PM fragalot: I have - they don't sell to "normal people"
01:25 PM gloops: an enginners surface plate might be useful - already flat, just need touching up after cutting
01:26 PM gloops: sounds like a load of red tape in denmark fragalot
01:27 PM fragalot: gloops: once cut it will warp.
01:27 PM fragalot: gloops: Belgium. not denmark
01:27 PM Simonious: in Fusion360 I want to engrave this little turtle and rainbow https://snag.gy/jrXcRl.jpg but I've got a couple of problems. 1 - it won't select the rainbow shape. 2 - with the bit being pointed as it is I think I want it to engrave just an outline and then come back with some other operation to bore otu the larger areas - help?
01:27 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cast-Iron-engineers-surface-table-2ft-x-2ft-x-3ft-Drilled-in-one-corner/332543762364?
01:27 PM fragalot: and it's not just red tape, it's just that there are no tiny places here, they're all huge corportations
01:28 PM fragalot: Simonious: the rainbow shape is not closed
01:28 PM Simonious: fragalot: ! will take a look
01:32 PM Simonious: indeed, that fixed that bit, any thoughts on the other?
01:32 PM fragalot: you should be able to do just a contour, then followed by an adaptive with some hold off added or whatever that parameter is called
01:32 PM * Simonious ndos
01:32 PM Simonious: *nods
01:32 PM Simonious: that makes sense, will try
02:06 PM gloops: yes belgium sorry
02:07 PM gloops: the mrs was unmoved by seeing the gantry move, and wants to know how much electricity it is costing to leave all this switched on all day for nothing
02:07 PM gloops: archivist https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHOSPHOR-BRONZE-CENTRIFUGALLY-VACUUM-CAST-METAL-RAILWAY-METALWORKING-STEAM-MODEL/253411712576?
02:08 PM Loetmichel: gloops: dou you have electric or gas warm water?
02:09 PM gloops: Loet - gas
02:09 PM Loetmichel: if electric: tell her its less than 1/10th of her daily hot shower mega seessions ;)
02:09 PM Loetmichel: sad, so that doesent work. ;(
02:10 PM gloops: ill make her something when its finished
02:10 PM MarcelineVQ: doesn't she know hobbies are supposed to cost money
02:11 PM MarcelineVQ: if it doesn't cost money it's an interest, not a hobby
02:11 PM Rab: gloops, tell her price approaches personal infinity if it burns the house down while unattended.
02:11 PM gloops: yes, shes a very matter of fact person really, her main hobby is walking, which doesnt cost anything
02:12 PM gloops: its a good job i wear the pants in this house
02:15 PM gloops: Rab luckily the garage is detached - by 8 inches
02:32 PM fragalot: 8 inches is all you need, gloops
02:45 PM gloops: ive been reading a book at bedtime called 'blood red snow' memoirs of a german soldier on the eastern front, after over a year there, he describes one night this ground quaking thundering shaking apocalyptic sensation one, night, thought the foxhole was going to collapse
02:47 PM gloops: he wondered what terrible new attack the russians had devised, it was actually the arrival of a new german machine the 'ferdinand' 70 tonne tank destroy, 2 combustion engines powered generators that in turn powered motors - i must be weird but these kinf of machines i find interesting lol
02:49 PM fragalot: they were ingenious at the time.
02:50 PM fragalot: it's sad to say, but war usually brings great advances in technology with it
02:50 PM gloops: very, it wasnt a great success though as it couldnt move when it was wet
02:50 PM fragalot: you have to start somewhere. :D
02:51 PM gloops: good in defence, could destroy t34s long before they were in range of it
02:56 PM uwe__ is now known as uwe_
03:02 PM Simonious: So.. the rainbow is still messed up at CAM time, the spokes off of it are coming along, but the rainbox itself has one smooth arc and the otherside is 100s of plunges https://snag.gy/hTXcmr.jpg
03:05 PM Simonious: ahh, fixed it
03:05 PM Simonious: there was a double up line that was dicking things up
03:06 PM fragalot: :-)
03:13 PM gloops: can you trace a bitmap or jpeg or whatever in fusion?
03:13 PM fragalot: manual tracing I believe
03:13 PM fragalot: i'm off - gnite
03:18 PM Simonious: gloops: inkscape
03:19 PM gloops: yeah plenty of tools to do that Simon, i just wondered how good fusion was for more artistic work
03:19 PM Simonious: :)
03:26 PM Simonious: adaptive looks weird https://snag.gy/mxE5Oj.jpg
03:32 PM Simonious: oh I like 2D pocket better
03:35 PM gloops: looks like youre getting the hang of it Simonious
03:36 PM Simonious: a little bit
03:36 PM Simonious: I don't get to spend the kind of time at this that I might like. :)
03:37 PM Simonious: https://snag.gy/35R2ix.jpg
03:55 PM becca_KB1WRP is now known as becca
03:55 PM becca is now known as becca1
03:56 PM Deejay: gn8
04:07 PM becca_ is now known as randomlogic
04:11 PM becca_ is now known as brokenlogic
04:22 PM brokenlogic is now known as becca_KB1WRP
04:24 PM becca_KB1WRP is now known as brokenlogic
08:08 PM XXCoder: hellllllo
08:32 PM malcom2073: Hi
10:46 PM Crom: Don't know if I could get my Cuppa on a 5# note...