#linuxcnc Logs

Feb 05 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:06 AM CaptHindsight: http://www.nuvoton.com/hq/products/cloud-computing/i-o/super-i-o-series/?__locale=en
12:09 AM CaptHindsight: Intel dropped LPT ports long ago from their silicon, when mini-itx boards have them it's been from an addition like this ^^
12:13 AM * evilroot just ordered a PCIe LPT and serial card
12:13 AM evilroot: Really looking forward to converting this old Seiko bot
12:14 AM enleth: on a bright side, such a card might provide a higher quality support with better timings than the legacy stuff
12:14 AM evilroot: I've sold ten and helped convert a few, but now I can really have fun
12:16 AM evilroot: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5fQTi1W868OWW1EcWFfVjJGS2c/view?usp=sharing
12:16 AM evilroot: So sexy
12:56 AM Crom: well with the Wyse Dell thin client boxes I can run wifi network and ethernet MESA
12:57 AM Crom: going to try and run a 2TB 2.5" drive off a Sata module 7+15 pin header
12:58 AM Crom: but the clients I'm getting have 32GB MLC SATA modules in them
12:58 AM Crom: hopefully the MB's have a SATA connector on them as well
01:03 AM evilroot: Fancy
01:03 AM evilroot: I just use surplus i7 workstations
01:04 AM evilroot: For $80 a pop
01:13 AM evilroot: Nice having university surplus stores close
01:36 AM pink_vampire: why the powder coat is not working?????????
01:36 AM Wolf__: ?
01:36 AM pink_vampire: the paint don't stick to the part
01:37 AM Wolf__: wire hooked up?
01:37 AM pink_vampire: yes
01:38 AM Wolf__: if it was me, I would check that its actually completing a circuit
01:38 AM gloops: stove enamel?
01:38 AM pink_vampire: it is
01:38 AM Wolf__: past that I got nothing
01:38 AM pink_vampire: but the paint just go all over but not on the part
01:39 AM Wolf__: then something isnt working
01:39 AM Wolf__: rtfm?
01:39 AM Wolf__: or google for info on the setup
01:39 AM pink_vampire: even the alligator clip don't get coated
01:42 AM jesseg: Maybe it's not producing high voltage
01:43 AM jesseg: Are you allowed to "spark" the tip against the alligator clip to check for high voltage?
01:43 AM jesseg: or will that damage the cheaply made gun?
01:43 AM jesseg: :P
01:43 AM pink_vampire: lets see
01:43 AM pink_vampire: yes it is sparking
01:44 AM pink_vampire: about 1/2" spark
01:44 AM jesseg: Wolf__, check out the 1980's rechargeable flashlight I retrofitted with Lithium Ion and LED: http://i.xomf.com/zgwkb
01:44 AM jesseg: hrm....
01:44 AM jesseg: That is so strange.
01:44 AM Wolf__: nice
01:44 AM Wolf__: I have a 1960’s light that I should do that to lol
01:44 AM jesseg: I've never powdercoated myself but understand the theory and in fact have a harbor freight kit that I haven't tried yet
01:45 AM jesseg: Wolf__, lol definitely you should! I put 10x 18650 and a 5w led
01:45 AM Wolf__: http://www.flashlightmuseum.com/burgess-flashlight-165-2-safari-lite-fluoresent-lantern-burgess-green-label-2-69v-646-or-246-1961 its one of these
01:45 AM pink_vampire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORDnv_iTCjA
01:46 AM pink_vampire: jump to 6:06
01:46 AM pink_vampire: is that normal to have all that powder on the bottom?
01:46 AM jesseg: Wolf__, cool.. yeah if you loaded that with dreamliner burners that would run for days :P
01:47 AM Wolf__: did you read the original batt specs lol
01:47 AM jesseg: no I didn't
01:47 AM Wolf__: 69V cells x2
01:48 AM Wolf__: yeah, all that powder everywhere is normal, seeing the overspray has to go somewhere
01:49 AM pink_vampire: and what do you do with it?
01:49 AM pink_vampire: recycle?
01:49 AM pink_vampire: trash?
01:49 AM Wolf__: I’ve never bothered to get a powder coat setup due to everything I would coat needs a 8’+ oven
01:49 AM jesseg: Wolf__, LOL... I guess they wanted to use 120v light bulb and didn't want to have to run an inverter
01:51 AM Wolf__: think 1960’s tech lol, how to start and run a fluorescent bulb with low tech parts
01:51 AM pink_vampire: also the original paint container don't go on the thread of the gun
01:51 AM Wolf__: the paint container not fitting is a feature
01:52 AM pink_vampire: what do you mean??
01:52 AM jesseg: pink_vampire, are you using regular powder coating paint? I wonder if there's an incompatibility with the paint and the gun
01:52 AM jesseg: or the air is damp?
01:52 AM Wolf__: I would think air issue
01:52 AM pink_vampire: no and no
01:52 AM pink_vampire: 42% humidity
01:52 AM Wolf__: you have drying filter on your air?
01:53 AM jesseg: pink_vampire, I meant the compressed air
01:53 AM jesseg: Also, is your air flow able to keep up with the demand?
01:53 AM jesseg: I honestly should shut up because I have no experience on this :|
01:53 AM pink_vampire: there is a filrer
01:53 AM pink_vampire: filter on the hose
01:54 AM jesseg: Do you drain the water from your compressor frequently?
01:54 AM pink_vampire: yes
01:54 AM pink_vampire: to drain it now also?
01:54 AM jesseg: I doubt that's the problem
01:55 AM jesseg: however, because the tank can be warmer from the compressor, it can cause air to collect in the the hoses
01:56 AM jesseg: pink_vampire, by way of background, where did you get the gun, and have you or another person had good success with it previously?
01:57 AM pink_vampire: is the one from HF that everyone use
01:57 AM Wolf__: harbor freight reviews note that the powder they sell doesnt fit on the guns they sell so…
01:58 AM jesseg: pink_vampire, if it's from HF and nobody's ever used it before with success, there *is* a non-zero, and perhaps even significant chance that they put it together wrong at the factory.
01:58 AM pink_vampire: any better company?
01:59 AM Wolf__: box it back up and swap it for another @ HF store
02:00 AM Wolf__: most things I get from HF I usually expect that I need to fix it before use…
02:00 AM pink_vampire: but it is just a high voltege power supply
02:01 AM jesseg: yeah but who knows if it's putting out AC or DC or reverse polarity DC
02:01 AM jesseg: or too much or too little voltage
02:01 AM pink_vampire: the paint get mostly on the gun
02:02 AM pink_vampire: so maybe it is reversed
02:02 AM jesseg: or putting out alternating current
02:03 AM pink_vampire: let me take a picture
02:04 AM Wolf__: http://www.instructables.com/topics/Help-with-my-Harbor-Freight-powder-coater-The-po/
02:05 AM Wolf__: is the outlet you are using grounded?
02:05 AM pink_vampire: yes
02:06 AM pink_vampire: and i know there is very good ground here
02:06 AM Wolf__: then my guess it the box is bad then
02:07 AM pink_vampire: the paint gun is cover all over with paint, but nothing on the part
02:08 AM jesseg: And air pressure is correct I presume
02:08 AM jesseg: but it really sounds like a faulty gun
02:08 AM Wolf__: “What I can say, is that even though I couldn't verify that the machine was faulty, I took it back to harbor freight and exchanged it for a new one.
02:09 AM Wolf__: I used it in the same environment, and under the same conditions and it worked as it should.”
02:09 AM Wolf__: from that link I posted
02:09 AM Deejay: moin
02:09 AM jesseg: Mornin' Deejay
02:09 AM Deejay: hey there :)
02:10 AM Wolf__: poster that said that original post says powder wouldnt stick but sees spark from tip to part
02:11 AM pink_vampire: the tip of the gun https://i.imgur.com/umKTQzR.jpg
02:11 AM pink_vampire: parts before painting https://i.imgur.com/qWlMtyM.jpg
02:12 AM pink_vampire: part after paint https://i.imgur.com/rRyNjTl.jpg
02:13 AM Wolf__: hmm, did you ohm check the coat hanger to the part?
02:14 AM pink_vampire: lets see
02:15 AM pink_vampire: it's conduct
02:15 AM jesseg: wow... it really isn't going to the target at all is it
02:16 AM archivist: reverse polarity probably
02:16 AM Wolf__: I’m thinking harbor freight quality
02:16 AM pink_vampire: any better unit?
02:17 AM Wolf__: take back faulty unit and swap for new
02:17 AM jesseg: Take it back and exchange it, the new one they give you may work fine
02:17 AM jesseg: people do use HF pc guns
02:17 AM Wolf__: or you could spend 3x as much and get a eastwood unit or something
02:17 AM jesseg: but I think you got a bad one
02:18 AM laminae_: So i was browsing through misumi and found these extrusions and was thinking 2 250mm x 900mm with 3 20x40 braces in the middle and each side, thoughts? https://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/110302261820/
02:18 AM pink_vampire: the eastwood unit is better?
02:19 AM archivist: reverse the leads try again
02:19 AM pink_vampire: how?
02:19 AM Wolf__: just take it back and exchange it
02:19 AM jesseg: yeah don't try reversing stuff you might get shocked..
02:19 AM jesseg: :P
02:20 AM archivist: it is the same voltage in reverse
02:20 AM jesseg: I'm not even sure how you would reverse anything unless you took it apart and reversed something inside
02:20 AM Wolf__: probably just end up breaking it more but wont be able to return it then
02:20 AM archivist: did the user connect the leads the right way round
02:20 AM pink_vampire: I'm not going to touch it
02:20 AM pink_vampire: it go back in to the box
02:22 AM gloops: cant you do the powder coating by warming the part up?
02:22 AM Wolf__: baking it is how you get the coating to set
02:22 AM gloops: the electric is just to get it to cling?
02:23 AM Wolf__: but you need the electro-static to get the coating to stick (plastic powder)
02:23 AM gloops: we just used to warm the metal part and roll the power on, pour it it on etc
02:24 AM Wolf__: oh derp, yeah you could do that
02:24 AM Wolf__: thats how they do poly coated bullets
02:24 AM Wolf__: just warm them and tumble them in the powder
02:25 AM Wolf__: then bake =)
02:25 AM gloops: yeah basically, not sure if this is the same powder we're talking about but for parts of suitable size etc, i have done that in the past
02:25 AM laminae: <.<
02:39 AM gloops: well, see if my pulley clamping system works this morning, might make some progress if they do
02:41 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WH-B-Shoe-Repair-Machine-polishing-vintage-antique-cobbler-old/222815871853?
02:41 AM gloops: useful thing, probably too far for me, i dont know where thatcham is
02:41 AM pink_vampire: why do you need that?
02:41 AM gloops: cn do all kinds of polishing and buffing on that
02:41 AM gloops: be great for one of these knife makers
02:42 AM archivist: Norfolk
02:42 AM gloops: doubt it would pass any workshop inspection these days
02:42 AM pink_vampire: why are you making knifes?
02:42 AM gloops: im not
02:43 AM pink_vampire: you see, i save you some space
02:43 AM gloops: for 20 quid thats worth buying for the wheels that are on it
02:43 AM Wolf__: good money in sword and knife making
02:45 AM gloops: very popular now
02:45 AM gloops: most popular metal craft on ebay the groups have tens of thousands of members
02:45 AM gloops: on facebook
02:46 AM Wolf__: yup, shop I’m friends with stuff sells for $$$$
02:48 AM gloops: i live near sheffield, the cutlery making used to take place on a near cottage industry scale
02:48 AM gloops: youd have hundreds of tiny workshops, one man, grinding and polishing knives and spoons, all added up to a lot of cutlery
02:49 AM pink_vampire: i love the olfa knifes
02:49 AM pink_vampire: with the j.m.e 30 deg blades
02:49 AM gloops: the 'little mesters' they called them, knife making is pretty regional for me, strange to see it so popular now accross the west
02:49 AM Wolf__: check out
02:49 AM Wolf__: man at arms reforged
02:49 AM Wolf__: on youtube
02:51 AM pink_vampire: but what are you using them?
02:52 AM Wolf__: ?
02:53 AM pink_vampire: Wolf__: those shop build knifes
02:53 AM Wolf__: thats a friends shop
02:54 AM Wolf__: pretty sure he does it to make money lol
02:56 AM Wolf__: http://imakeswords.com/index.htm
02:56 AM Wolf__: they make some nice stuff tho http://imakeswords.com/HungarianYatagahn.html
02:59 AM pink_vampire: Wolf__: the best knife with the best blades https://i.imgur.com/iVkm3QN.jpg
03:01 AM Wolf__: its just sharp
03:01 AM Wolf__: I wouldnt say best…
03:02 AM gloops: checklist, pulley fix> squareness tests> motor on z> get spindle working> level bed> start cutting
03:05 AM pink_vampire: small slim, super sharp, 30 deg tip.
03:07 AM Wolf__: no knife is “best” too many different applications to call one the best
03:09 AM pink_vampire: i don't like to stop my work just to re-sharpen the knife
03:09 AM pink_vampire: and i also don't like a fixed length of blade
04:09 AM pink_vampire: i think it is working!!
04:10 AM pink_vampire: 30 psi was too much pressure so it blow the powder from the part
04:14 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: !
04:14 AM pink_vampire: Wolf__: ^
04:14 AM XXCoder: hey
04:14 AM XXCoder: finally fixed the wifi issues
04:16 AM pink_vampire: cool
04:16 AM pink_vampire: i finally did my first powder coated part!
04:16 AM pink_vampire: it's in the oven
04:17 AM XXCoder: whoo looks fancy, it will
04:18 AM pink_vampire: i will see in few minuets
04:19 AM pink_vampire: i watching the oven like a tv
04:20 AM XXCoder: isnt it basically watching paint dry? :) (not quite but almost)
04:20 AM pink_vampire: i'm so excited
04:20 AM pink_vampire: I'm like a little girl that going to get her first candy
04:21 AM pink_vampire: 4 minuets left!!
04:21 AM pink_vampire: 3
04:22 AM pink_vampire: 2!!
04:23 AM XXCoder: :)
04:24 AM pink_vampire: OMG!!!
04:24 AM pink_vampire: AWWWWWW
04:25 AM Wolf__: 0.o
04:25 AM pink_vampire: screaming
04:25 AM Wolf__: you didn’t start off at 10psi and work up?
04:25 AM pink_vampire: cuteee
04:25 AM pink_vampire: no
04:25 AM pink_vampire: AWWWWWW
04:25 AM pink_vampire: I want to pet him@@!
04:26 AM Deejay: wtf ^^
04:26 AM Wolf__: idk...
04:28 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/0RMlOm4.jpg
04:29 AM XXCoder: slight overcoating?
04:29 AM XXCoder: but looks very very good
04:29 AM pink_vampire: i know!
04:29 AM pink_vampire: soo nice!
04:30 AM pink_vampire: for less then 20 min of work!
04:30 AM pink_vampire: super
04:30 AM XXCoder: plan to remill some of it to expose metal for assembly?
04:30 AM pink_vampire: maybe..
04:31 AM XXCoder: how did you do it? never really looked on powdercoating
04:31 AM XXCoder: and how long did you bake it, and how hot?
04:32 AM pink_vampire: 15min on 400F
04:32 AM XXCoder: not bad really. how did you apply coating?
04:33 AM XXCoder: I guess its not literal painting on
04:33 AM pink_vampire: to use the tape as mask - stupid idea
04:34 AM pink_vampire: the toothpicks works grate!
04:38 AM XXCoder: nice
04:38 AM XXCoder: how easy was it to apply em?
04:38 AM XXCoder: because I want to try powdercoating someday
04:38 AM pink_vampire: 10 sec
04:38 AM pink_vampire: super mega easy
04:38 AM pink_vampire: i did it in doors
04:38 AM jthornton: morning
04:38 AM pink_vampire: best way to finish parts
04:39 AM XXCoder: it can be nice yeah. makes it damn near weatherproof
04:40 AM pink_vampire: it was much much easier then anodize
04:41 AM XXCoder: i bet
04:46 AM XXCoder: 3d printing to make casting molds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uohxoOeJpw8
04:46 AM pink_vampire: i know that
04:46 AM XXCoder: know what?
04:47 AM XXCoder: if its my link it wasnt directed to you, just "wow this is cool link"
04:48 AM XXCoder: though "cope and drag" I wonder who invented those words
04:50 AM pink_vampire: I know about lost pla and convert 3d printed part to cast
04:51 AM XXCoder: cool
04:51 AM XXCoder: knew about it also, just love that video, thefordboy does it well
04:51 AM XXCoder: love how he "captions" videos.
04:54 AM pink_vampire: i'm trying dry wall fixing compound as a mask
04:55 AM XXCoder: oh powdercoating mask?
04:55 AM XXCoder: it would probably be crumbly and easy to remove after baking so maybe?
04:56 AM pink_vampire: for areas the i dont want to paint
04:56 AM XXCoder: man lot of casting looks like on ground playing with sand. precision kiddy sandbox playing ;)
04:57 AM pink_vampire: loll
04:57 AM pink_vampire: i love to do casting
04:57 AM XXCoder: you do casting? dang
04:57 AM XXCoder: I'd love to do it but not sure. how do you melt alum or whatever?
04:58 AM pink_vampire: i *would love
04:58 AM XXCoder: oh me too oh well lol
04:59 AM XXCoder: oh thought fordboy would use normal alum but no zl12, 12% alum rest zinc
04:59 AM XXCoder: wonder what benefits that has
04:59 AM pink_vampire: probably
05:00 AM XXCoder: man his kiln is showing age now. I remember when he was making video series on making that thing
05:03 AM XXCoder: I wonder if zl12 is cheap metal
05:04 AM pink_vampire: i lost my back plate!
05:06 AM XXCoder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_aluminium
05:06 AM XXCoder: so its for cheaper price, lower heat requirement for melt, and high as cast iron strength
05:07 AM pink_vampire: found it
05:08 AM XXCoder: limit is 100c above that and zinc melts
05:10 AM pink_vampire: zinc fums is not healthy
05:10 AM XXCoder: yeah zinc fever
05:10 AM XXCoder: hes blowing it away from shop because of that
05:11 AM pink_vampire: "from the *shop*"
05:14 AM XXCoder: yeah evenually zinc cools down and solidifes and falls down
05:14 AM XXCoder: as super fine mist
05:14 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: dear landlord, the black spots on the wood floor are the 2018 fashion in home decoration, hope you like it
05:14 AM XXCoder: after that its harmless
05:15 AM XXCoder: lol
05:17 AM XXCoder: hard to do casting at apartment
05:17 AM XXCoder: do it at storage unit ;)
05:17 AM laminae: I recall learning to weld in highstool and accidentally arc welding over a sinc screw
05:26 AM laminae: XXCoder: any specific spindles you would suggest given that i'm going to be working some alum?
05:26 AM XXCoder: not sure, mine would be barely able to mill alum
05:26 AM XXCoder: lower bound is surpising low if youre willing to wait
05:26 AM XXCoder: your frame also dermines that, can it take the sideload?
05:27 AM XXCoder: what machine you have?
05:29 AM gloops: right , pulleys seem to be holding after a few runs up and down, have got a scale error of 50% on X though
05:30 AM gloops: changing the dipswitches has no effect
05:32 AM laminae: I'm using a cbeam xl
05:32 AM archivist: gloops, scale wrong
05:32 AM XXCoder: well that looks rigid enough
05:32 AM XXCoder: llight cuts and such
05:32 AM XXCoder: spindle well not too sure what is best but that looks large enough for bit larger spindles like 1500w ones
05:33 AM XXCoder: my machine is too tiny, limited to 52mm
05:33 AM XXCoder: so you certainly have room for nice and decent spindle. just dont push oit too hard, frame would deform
05:33 AM gloops: archivist the scale was calculated the same way as the y which is ok, i thought dipswitch settings but changing doesnt do nything - it should, ill mess with scale anyway in a bit
05:34 AM archivist: you have to switch off/on for dip switch settings to take effect
05:34 AM gloops: restart the computer or just linuxcnc?
05:35 AM XXCoder: or for board itself?
05:35 AM gloops: ahh not done that
05:35 AM gloops: on off for the drivers
05:36 AM XXCoder: make sure steppers are off that dont do good if you turn off without that off first if I recall right
05:36 AM MarcelineVQ: in fact you'd better not switch dip with it on
05:36 AM gloops: i noticed it the other night but dismissed it as something to sort later,
05:36 AM gloops: Marcel i already have
05:37 AM MarcelineVQ: I bet some drivers can handle it but it's not a good idea
05:37 AM gloops: not being as cautious as i was last time round, to eager to see movement lol
05:38 AM gloops: ill probably remember quickly when it starts to cost though...
05:38 AM XXCoder: very safe bet
05:43 AM pink_vampire: 2 more parts are in the oven!!
05:43 AM XXCoder: :)
05:43 AM XXCoder: so what ya making
05:43 AM pink_vampire: paint the tool setter
05:44 AM XXCoder: ohb you made it?
05:44 AM XXCoder: laser based or button/switch type?
05:46 AM laminae: sORRY GOT DISTRACTED
05:46 AM XXCoder: yeah can be pwm or vld? vdc? forgot lol
05:47 AM XXCoder: also, im deaf and I heard your shouting :P
05:47 AM laminae: Damn caps lock x.x
05:48 AM XXCoder: :)
05:48 AM laminae: I can't be held accountable for my actions!
05:48 AM laminae: What cnc are you using?
05:51 AM Tom_L: 10F
05:51 AM XXCoder: cnc router, 3040
05:51 AM XXCoder: pretty tiny one
05:52 AM archivist: laminae, 5 axis mill, lathe, hobbing machine all with linuxcnc
05:54 AM laminae: Renting sucks man, and Archivist, i'm peanut butter and jealous
05:54 AM laminae: If it were possible to move this year i would have made a different choice for my machine
05:55 AM laminae: Figure this one will be a functional learning experience
05:55 AM laminae: My long term goal is a machine like this one
05:56 AM laminae: And then hopefully a reasonable small mill
05:56 AM laminae: Tormach if i'm lucky
05:56 AM laminae: http://www.cncrouterparts.com/pro4896-4-x-8-cnc-router-kit-p-253.html
05:56 AM laminae: Helps if i add the link
05:58 AM XXCoder: I saw bhow they did 5 axis on pocket nc
05:59 AM XXCoder: made me wonder if I could make one lol
05:59 AM XXCoder: but same time no lathe, cant make worm gear.
05:59 AM XXCoder: archivist: they cheated with it to get rid of backlash. brass gear, stainless steel worm gear, overly tight fit so brass deforms
05:59 AM XXCoder: oh wait THAT was "diy" 5 axis
06:00 AM XXCoder: similiar style as pocket nc
06:00 AM archivist: pocket nc looks like a vibration nightmare
06:00 AM XXCoder: new version out now
06:01 AM archivist: it is amusing that all the new designs are too light
06:01 AM XXCoder: looks better but no idea if its chattering as hell as that can be invisible, detectable only when look at part closely or hearing it
06:01 AM gloops: right my drivers are alive still and on/off worked for dipswitches
06:01 AM XXCoder: gloops: there ya go :D
06:01 AM gloops: 5000/mm/min is a bit cringey quick for a gantry like this
06:02 AM gloops: think ill drop the acceleration a bit heh
06:03 AM laminae: What bits/endmills do you guys use when engraving your tools?
06:05 AM XXCoder: dead 1/16 carbide ball endmill lol
06:05 AM XXCoder: thats from work, it engraved 30 to 40 inocel parts so yeah its shot for that but just fine for wood, and probably alum also,.
06:06 AM laminae: Mostly want to engrave all my measuring tools i made a pelican box for them at work like the fluke one i did earlier
06:06 AM laminae: And to take them out on the flight line they have to be serialized
06:07 AM XXCoder: work I can get my stuff chemically treated with my name or whatever
06:07 AM XXCoder: it lasts forever
06:07 AM XXCoder: aerospace requirements for labeling parts after all
06:11 AM laminae: They provide mechanical engravers with diamond bits
06:11 AM laminae: ANd i think they do a functional but ugly job
06:11 AM laminae: Didn't realise you were a maintainer
06:12 AM XXCoder: nah im machinist ;)
06:12 AM XXCoder: not super skilled one but whatever
06:12 AM laminae: Hmm, curious to see your work
06:13 AM XXCoder: most if not all parts have privacy and confidental on it
06:17 AM laminae: title 5?
06:18 AM XXCoder: err dunno but I dont risk my job posting what I make online
06:18 AM laminae: I was asking if you;re a civilian tech not what you make >.>
06:19 AM laminae: Not to be pushy though, all good in the proverbial hood
06:19 AM XXCoder: oh not part of any goverment and miliary stuff (they do order some stuff for company I work for to make but not directly part of em)
06:19 AM laminae: Ah
06:20 AM laminae: I've considered going private sector, boeing has some appealing avionics stuff but i think i would lose a lot of lattitude to make decisions about my work
06:21 AM XXCoder: boeing ehh heard if you have that in resume unless you have lots other history you have hard time getting other job
06:22 AM XXCoder: pays well and from what I understand bit easy job
06:22 AM laminae: I might make a few sheckles more an hour but i actually really like my job and i like being the "project guy"
06:23 AM XXCoder: yeah money isnt everything
06:24 AM laminae: they are currently restructuring pay scale and we're looking at a very substantial pay raise to compete with flight craft so that makes me feel great about it
06:27 AM gloops: well thats what the screen looks like using 2.8 with joints, xyz doesnt appear until all homed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDTpnf7DIHM
06:28 AM XXCoder: ow you used autovomit
06:28 AM gloops: autovomit?
06:29 AM XXCoder: youtube smoothing utility
06:29 AM XXCoder: oh nice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prb60JoxQSQ
06:29 AM laminae: Gloops, if you're interested, OBS will run onlinux, easy video capture
06:29 AM XXCoder: get better lighting and camera
06:29 AM gloops: ahh was just with the phone
06:29 AM XXCoder: I need to do same also lol
06:30 AM laminae: I feel like that would have been easier to print
06:31 AM laminae: This dude makes soime beautiful stuff
06:32 AM gloops: well this is highly technical stuff you know, the operations room is a like a pressure cooker, tension rising, water in the engine room etc, no time for media fineries
06:32 AM laminae: Haha, i love obs
06:33 AM laminae: I stream basic fusion stuff with it to twitch
06:33 AM laminae: We get a lot of modeling newbies in the reprap irc
06:33 AM laminae: XXCoder wouldn't know anythign about that
06:34 AM laminae: I love the bed he's using
06:39 AM XXCoder: nice something I can do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sQLeh9JaWw
06:39 AM gloops: i will do some quick squareness checks now, before proceeding with motoring up z
06:40 AM XXCoder: try squared circle model
06:40 AM XXCoder: and also do basic circle, that will tell you if you have trouble switching directions on axis
06:40 AM XXCoder: it causes roughness on "compass poles" if it has backlash or problems switching directions.
06:40 AM gloops: its not cutting yet, will just draw some lines with a pencil taped to the spindle
06:41 AM gloops: if near ok thats ok for now
06:41 AM gloops: if not, needs sorting now
06:42 AM XXCoder: you can make a parttern for it to repeat bunch of times see if theres any draft
06:42 AM XXCoder: thats for pen/pencil
06:43 AM gloops: what is draft in this scenario?
06:43 AM XXCoder: drawing slightoffset from first one
06:43 AM gloops: right yeah
06:43 AM XXCoder: and next one drift same direction, so on
06:43 AM XXCoder: worse is random draft
06:44 AM gloops: well if i draw some lines along along x and y i can do a crude pythagoras 345 check
06:44 AM XXCoder: nice
06:44 AM pink_vampire: 2 parts was super good
06:45 AM pink_vampire: and i'm still working on removing the glue from the tape
06:54 AM pink_vampire: all the 3 parts is DONE!
06:54 AM pink_vampire: i'm working on the base
06:56 AM XXCoder: awesome
06:57 AM pink_vampire: i need to clean here a bit
06:57 AM laminae: Do you have that mad scientist hair, dehydration from coffee overconsumption and a deep sense of satisfaction?
06:58 AM laminae: THat's how you know you have a good build imo
06:58 AM pink_vampire: mad scientist hair, NOOOOOOOOOO
06:58 AM laminae: man i almost told gtx to celebrate
06:58 AM XXCoder: heh long tangled up hair :P
06:58 AM XXCoder: (kinda assuming length)
06:58 AM pink_vampire: i have very nice long hair
06:59 AM laminae: I get compulsively obsessed with projects very frequently
06:59 AM laminae: When i see old Ben Heck videos and you can tell he hasn't slept or eaten in ages because HE NEEDS TO FINISH
06:59 AM pink_vampire: with my projects?
06:59 AM laminae: I relate to that on a molecular level
06:59 AM pink_vampire: laminae: like me
07:00 AM laminae: Haha, it's a the curse, right?
07:00 AM XXCoder: sadly I lack that. I really need to fix that.
07:01 AM laminae: I dunno, drives my friends/family nuts
07:01 AM XXCoder: but I dont get stuff DONE.
07:01 AM XXCoder: I'm like that villian in that cartoon show
07:01 AM laminae: My girlfriend thinks it's funny now
07:01 AM laminae: But sometime si wonder how she will feel about it down the road
07:02 AM XXCoder: ah yes jimmy neurron show, villian name is calamitous
07:02 AM XXCoder: he does stuff but he never finish anything
07:03 AM laminae: For every project i finish there are five that didn't make it
07:03 AM XXCoder: thats 1/5 more than me
07:04 AM laminae: Take a look at this: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1447214
07:05 AM laminae: I think i could model something about 200mm maybe 250mm in diameter and makle it a bit more efficient
07:05 AM jthornton: damn it's hard to setup a static ip wlan0 on a rpi and no instructions exist that are correct for jessie
07:05 AM laminae: Use a larger container
07:05 AM XXCoder: I plan to try that also
07:05 AM XXCoder: but I plan to do layered version for my cnc router also.
07:05 AM laminae: Are you running it asa standalone mqtt server?
07:06 AM jthornton: me?
07:06 AM laminae: Yeah
07:07 AM jthornton: no, I just have a rpi camera and view it on a lan page
07:07 AM jthornton: it's my chicken cam
07:07 AM laminae: Haha, nice
07:08 AM jthornton: I have no problem setting up my rpi 3 eth0 as static but the zero w wlan0 no luck
07:08 AM laminae: I had major issues doing something similar for optopi on rpi zero w
07:08 AM gloops: im ok for square but pulleys worked loose again, this problem has got to be sorted once and for all
07:08 AM laminae: And the refresh rate on it is abysmal
07:08 AM jthornton: I've tried everything I can find in /etc/dhcpcd.conf but I still get the DHCP address
07:09 AM laminae: octopi*
07:09 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/d2WmKCp.jpg
07:09 AM pink_vampire: 3 of my first powder coat parts!
07:09 AM laminae: Might be a port issue on your router
07:09 AM XXCoder: damn those look syper cool
07:09 AM laminae: Actually unlikely if the rpi 3 worked
07:09 AM laminae: They really do
07:10 AM gloops: very nice pink
07:10 AM jthornton: pink_vampire: nice
07:10 AM XXCoder: pink that touch porobe is interesting (video I linked above). it apparently is tuneable. I wonder how it works.
07:10 AM XXCoder: I guess by adjusting load
07:10 AM laminae: brb
07:10 AM jthornton: dunno if that is a chicken butt or an egg about to come through the curtain on the roll out nest box
07:11 AM pink_vampire: this is a tool setter and a datum in the same unit
07:12 AM * jthornton heads for the shower to get his day started
07:12 AM XXCoder: dunno if its my newly fixed contrast on montior, but your parts look really black
07:12 AM pink_vampire: something tell me that the mist nozzle need to get some paint
07:13 AM XXCoder: dont powder coat everything and kitchen sink ;)
07:14 AM pink_vampire: it is too late
07:14 AM XXCoder: lol
07:14 AM pink_vampire: some people do drugs, some do powder coat
07:15 AM XXCoder: lol
07:16 AM pink_vampire: i can stop anytime i want
07:16 AM XXCoder: hopefully I dont come in and see you at corner with black powder under your nose ;)
07:16 AM archivist: powder coat the milling machine to match
07:17 AM XXCoder: powder coat the tools :P
07:17 AM pink_vampire: lolll
07:18 AM pink_vampire: how is tin and 400F?
07:19 AM laminae: What cad software do you guys prefer?
07:19 AM pink_vampire: solidworks!
07:20 AM XXCoder: freecad. still bneed to figure out cam side. dunno.
07:20 AM laminae: I've only played with solidworks a little, my comfort zone is mostly fusion360
07:20 AM laminae: I use mesh mixer and blender to fix stls a lot
07:20 AM XXCoder: you will have easier time than me
07:23 AM XXCoder: those 2 is similiar in some ways, and have decent cam
07:23 AM laminae: Not really a cnc thing though, been trying to look at more options
07:23 AM pink_vampire: i'm using solidworks from 2003
07:23 AM laminae: THe large majority of my stuff hinges on parametric design
07:23 AM gloops: some nice 1.5 inch bar to turn down to about 16mm pfff
07:23 AM pink_vampire: i just realized is over 10 years
07:23 AM XXCoder: its also around 15 years lol
07:23 AM laminae: Bah, software it gets prettier but doesn't change a lot
07:25 AM pink_vampire: i need 12" brake for 1/16" aluminum
07:50 AM laminae: So this is a very general concept of what i'm considering as an option for my bed but i would like any suggestions you guys have, the red peice is something i would need to mill and i would need to reduce detail and set some tolerances to get rid of the corners but my thoguht is i want to be able to easily access the rails http://a360.co/2EGXzwp
07:51 AM laminae: I also found corner brackets to fit it
07:51 AM laminae: the two top main bed peices are 250mm x 900mm
07:51 AM laminae: And i can order them precut in that configuration from misumi
07:51 AM gregcnc_: what is the function of the red part?
07:52 AM laminae: Securing the extrusions mostly and hopefully still allow access to t slots, maybe reduce the odds of it going out of square
07:53 AM laminae: I intend to use a hdpe spoile ron top
07:53 AM laminae: spoiler board*
07:54 AM laminae: it would replace the bottom particle board http://openbuildspartstore.com/openbuilds-c-beam-machine-xlarge/
07:57 AM gregcnc_: isn't the table being secured to the cross braces? why bother with the red parts?
07:59 AM XXCoder: alum "hard metal" lol
07:59 AM XXCoder: not if you ever worked with inocel
08:00 AM XXCoder: if inocel was alum, then alum would be overwatered clay
08:02 AM laminae: It's probably overkill
08:02 AM laminae: I'm really not sure how much i can get away with
08:02 AM XXCoder: only one way to know
08:03 AM XXCoder: lkisten to machine and adjust if needed
08:03 AM XXCoder: smaller passes or bigger if it seems tp go well
08:03 AM XXCoder: too bad I cant even follow my advice.
08:03 AM laminae: She whispers so softly
08:03 AM laminae: I don;t even know when mesa will have the 7i76 in stock again
08:03 AM laminae: might be waiting a while
08:05 AM JT-Shop: 7i76 is in stock
08:05 AM XXCoder: http://openbuildspartstore.com/openbuilds-minimill/ this looks interesting
08:06 AM laminae: 7i76e sorry
08:06 AM XXCoder: my cnc rputer flaw is height limition
08:06 AM JT-Shop: ah ok, I'll get an update in a bit
08:06 AM laminae: SOmeone was milling still with that, lots of steps but i was surprised
08:07 AM laminae: Not trying to rish, it happens when it happens but i do appreciate it
08:07 AM XXCoder: openbuilds laser os REALLY chesp.
08:16 AM laminae: I haven't had much experience with their stuff
08:16 AM laminae: The hype seems a bit crazy so i guess hopefully it lives up to it
08:17 AM XXCoder: dunno
08:19 AM XXCoder: different one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz0L-EpYiMk
08:19 AM XXCoder: pretty cool
08:19 AM XXCoder: and dangerous, it turned on witout input so he wore glasses permently after that
08:20 AM JT-Shop: wonderful I can't access my admin panels for my stores...
08:22 AM methods_: ouch
08:22 AM methods_: that sounds bad
08:22 AM XXCoder: yeah
08:22 AM JT-Shop: looks like webhost4life changed the database server name again
08:22 AM XXCoder: ugh 6 am. late to bad. night
08:22 AM JT-Shop: night
08:24 AM JT-Shop: well crap the admin password is global not to each database
09:35 AM pink_vampire: powder coat+ oil = not work
09:39 AM gloops: to polish it?
09:42 AM gregcnc_: powder doesn't stick to oil
09:43 AM gloops: and pulleys dont stick to shafts
09:49 AM pink_vampire: no
09:50 AM pink_vampire: i didn't clean the part
09:50 AM gregcnc_: sandblast is typical
09:50 AM pink_vampire: not even that...
09:56 AM pink_vampire: how do i clean the paint gun from black paint to white?
10:11 AM FinboySlick: Is it typical to clean a paint gun with paint thinner to clean it? Seems like it'd be a wonderful way to start a fire.
10:11 AM FinboySlick: Sheesh, I can't put together sentences today.
10:13 AM pink_vampire: FinboySlick: it is a powder coat gun
10:14 AM FinboySlick: pink_vampire: spray white until it stops coming out grey?
10:15 AM pink_vampire: i cleaned it with air
10:22 AM Connor: Okay, so, who ever re-assembled my Bridgeport table did something way wrong.. They installed the double bearings on the right hand side..
10:22 AM Connor: had the left hand side shimmed to heck..
10:22 AM Connor: and I think they had the screw in backwards too.
10:22 AM Connor: I think they even mixed vintage parts with new parts..
10:26 AM pink_vampire: who is "they"?
10:26 AM Connor: Who ever owned or restored the mill before my ownership.
10:31 AM laminae: If i can't run 24v is it worth my time to run a 1.5kw spindle with a vfd or should i just opt for one of the basic router options like a dewalt 611?
10:32 AM laminae: The appeal to have speed control using a vfd is pretty high but i'm not really sure how much i can effectively use it
10:32 AM archivist: laminae, you dont want a high power spindle on a flimsy frame, 24v is an unrelated problem
10:33 AM laminae: meant to say 240v wall socket*
10:33 AM pink_vampire: laminae: same issue here
10:34 AM archivist: I use 240, how is that related
10:34 AM laminae: anything above 1.5kw require 240v
10:34 AM laminae: But i'm not really sure if my machine can even benefit from it
10:34 AM archivist: in low voltage countries :)
10:34 AM laminae: I can see that people have done it but that doesn't necessarily make a it a good decision
10:35 AM archivist: frame defines max power
10:35 AM laminae: Exactly
10:35 AM laminae: i don't know the limits of mine
10:36 AM laminae: And just because i can see that it is being done, not so sure it's worth it
10:36 AM archivist: my 5 axis is 1/4 hp iirc, lathe is 600z max
10:36 AM archivist: high rpm for wood tends to need some power just to spin it at a sensible speed
10:36 AM laminae: many rpm are you typically running?
10:37 AM archivist: 3-500
10:37 AM laminae: This sounds very low
10:37 AM archivist: 1500 rpm geared down with a vfd as well
10:37 AM archivist: I cut steel
10:38 AM laminae: I'm definitely not cutting steel on this
10:38 AM laminae: The hardest thing i will cut is alum
10:38 AM archivist: go too fast with plastic and it melts
10:38 AM laminae: I will be cutting a lot of hdpe some delrin and alum
10:39 AM laminae: A little wood here and there
10:39 AM laminae: But not a whole lot
10:43 AM roycroft: keep in mind also that one of those 80mm spindles is probably inappropriate for ferrous metals, and barely appropriate for non-ferrous metals
10:43 AM roycroft: especially an air-cooled one
10:43 AM archivist: running a vfd is a good idea so you can easily vary the speed
10:43 AM roycroft: you do *not* want to try to run an air-cooled spindle like that at 75Hz
10:43 AM roycroft: it will overheat almost instantly
10:44 AM roycroft: 10,000rpm is probably the slowest safe speed to run it at
10:44 AM laminae: i was reading that anything below 8k rpm is risky biscuits
10:44 AM laminae: SO i ws already leaning towards the water cooled option
10:44 AM roycroft: i have one for my router table
10:44 AM roycroft: but the speed range for that will be ~15k/24k rpm
10:44 AM roycroft: so that's fine
10:44 AM laminae: Does that sound like an option that would suit my intended use?
10:44 AM roycroft: even the water cooled ones are not recommended to be run really slow
10:44 AM roycroft: unless you're going to use tiny tooling
10:45 AM roycroft: and can run it faster
10:45 AM laminae: The large majority of my use is to produce structural components for 3d printers
10:45 AM laminae: Brackets, effectors, base and side panels
10:45 AM roycroft: my impression is that those spindles are for use as engravers and for wood routers
10:45 AM laminae: Cut a few mic 6 build plates
10:45 AM roycroft: if you're going to be machining metal use a spindle that runs slower
10:46 AM archivist: we have a user in here thrashing one of the water cooled on aluminium
10:46 AM laminae: Most of my panels will be hdpe as well as fittings
10:47 AM roycroft: i think a lot of folks wo do what you're planning on doing get non-powered spindles and gear/belt drive them from a separate motor
10:47 AM laminae: Any chance you can point me toward documentation for something like that?
10:48 AM gregcnc_: i was just going to suggest a sherline spindle
10:48 AM gregcnc_: https://sherline.com/product/3308-headstock-motor-unit-er-16-spindle-nose/
10:49 AM roycroft: something like that would probably work fine
10:50 AM roycroft: speed is manually controlled, but it would be a good way to get started
10:50 AM roycroft: you could buy just the spindle itself if you really want your cnc controller to manage the spindle
10:50 AM gregcnc_: get the headstock and add your own motor/drive
10:50 AM roycroft: yes
10:50 AM laminae: Awesome, would that leave me enough rpm to cut wood as well or would that be another ball of wax?
10:50 AM gregcnc_: https://sherline.com/product/30111-er-16-headstock/
10:50 AM roycroft: it would be pretty slow for wood
10:51 AM laminae: I would really like to control the the spindle via lcnc
10:51 AM roycroft: it says 10k rpm is the max
10:51 AM roycroft: and for wood you really want about double that
10:51 AM laminae: What's the max speed i can do plastics before i start to melt them?
10:51 AM roycroft: note that i would not speed it up by swapping sheaves
10:51 AM gregcnc_: this size/power is no mans land in terms of machines and cost
10:51 AM roycroft: the bearings may not handle 20k rpm
10:52 AM gregcnc_: few to choose
10:52 AM laminae: Yeah, i'm finding that
10:52 AM archivist: some change spindles between jobs
10:52 AM roycroft: you might consider getting two spindles
10:52 AM roycroft: one for wood and one for metals
10:52 AM laminae: I was actuallt just have that specific thought
10:53 AM laminae: I could even go the cheaper router and buy that dewalt 611 for wood and similar applications
10:53 AM laminae: And then the slower metal cutter
10:53 AM roycroft: yes, that would work
10:53 AM roycroft: although you would then be subject to router noise
10:54 AM laminae: And really, once i'm moved into a house that i'm not leasing, a tormach or similar milling machine is much more likely
10:54 AM laminae: If i had the space where i am now i would have opted for a much more substantial machine
10:55 AM roycroft: i make such a big deal about the noise because, well, routers are so damn noisy
10:55 AM laminae: Yeah, i agree
10:55 AM roycroft: when using a hand-held router one tends to use it in short burts
10:55 AM roycroft: and the noise is annoying, but tolerable
10:55 AM * Loetmichel throws in two "wick daymed" pills... so much for "i normally dont catch the cold from coworkers..." :-( *cough* *ouch*
10:55 AM roycroft: in a cnc machine, though, it might run continuously for long periods of tiems
10:55 AM roycroft: time
10:56 AM roycroft: and the difference between 80dB and 95dB is tremendous
10:56 AM roycroft: i honestly do not know how anyone can tolerate a cnc machine with a universal motor spindle
10:57 AM Loetmichel: roycroft: also: usualy handheld tools are not designed to run hours on end
10:57 AM roycroft: yes, that too
10:57 AM Loetmichel: my old kress 9660E lived no longer than a year in the CNC router.
10:57 AM laminae: I work on f15s and let me tell you how much i love double hearing protection...
10:57 AM Loetmichel: brushes gone, bearings gone, both, burned rotor windings, all kind of bad.
10:58 AM roycroft: if you got a high speed unpowered spindle you could gear it so that you could run it at high speed for wood and lower speeds for metals
10:58 AM roycroft: with stacked sheaves like on a drill press
10:58 AM laminae: That wouldn't be controllable via software though
10:58 AM roycroft: that way you could run the motor within its safe range
10:58 AM roycroft: and still get two speed combinations
10:58 AM roycroft: only when changing materials, though
10:59 AM roycroft: you gear it for high speed when routing wood
10:59 AM laminae: Even if i had to run two different spindles off a vfd it seems like that might be the most elegant solution
10:59 AM roycroft: and low speed when machining metal
10:59 AM roycroft: just swap a belt position or gear position when you are setting up
11:00 AM roycroft: you have to do other setup work for a new job anyway
11:00 AM laminae: seems like som vfds use pwm and others use a bus system
11:00 AM roycroft: no big deal to move a belt or change a gear
11:00 AM laminae: Would i be able to really know what speed i was running though?
11:00 AM roycroft: sure
11:00 AM laminae: It would all be a vague estimation
11:00 AM roycroft: you could have different profiles in linuxcnc
11:00 AM roycroft: one for wood, one for metal
11:01 AM laminae: Not entirely certain how i would mount it come to think of it
11:01 AM roycroft: if you find a spindle you want to use, someone has made a bracket for it
11:02 AM roycroft: and you can almost certainly find that bracket on ebay
11:02 AM laminae: Not sure how rigid that frame is or the torsional rigidity of those c beams http://openbuildspartstore.com/openbuilds-c-beam-machine-xlarge/
11:03 AM roycroft: have you started your build yet?
11:04 AM laminae: Negative
11:04 AM laminae: Still waiting for parts
11:04 AM * roycroft is wondering if laminae is trying to incorporate a milling machine and a router into a single machine
11:04 AM roycroft: ok, so you've committed to something at least
11:04 AM roycroft: my recommendation is to just build it
11:04 AM roycroft: start using it
11:04 AM roycroft: you'll get a feel for what works and what doesn't
11:05 AM laminae: Well, if i had to choose, the router is more important than the milling
11:05 AM roycroft: plan on replacing/upgrading/augmenting it after you get some experience with it
11:05 AM laminae: But it would sure be nice not to have to get my plates from an outside source every time
11:05 AM roycroft: if you're making something like in that link above then planning on routing is a good plan
11:06 AM roycroft: so just build it, put a high speed spindle in it
11:06 AM gregcnc_: cutting softer materials is easier than hard, so wood should be easy. It's the metal cutting that is much more demanding of the machine
11:06 AM roycroft: start with that dewalt router if yo uwant
11:06 AM roycroft: but know that 1. it will be EXTREMELY noisy, and 2. you won't be able to control it via linuxcnc
11:06 AM roycroft: i'd get a small 80mm spindle myself and a small vfd
11:06 AM laminae: Seems like that's a good option and really as long as i can cut hdpe to start i can work through my project back log very quickly
11:07 AM roycroft: if you want to do actual milling then get a small milling machine
11:07 AM roycroft: there are heaps of small mill/drill cnc conversions
11:07 AM roycroft: trying to do everything with one machine will likely result in doing nothing well with that machine
11:08 AM laminae: I'm working through buying a house and that won't happen until november at the soonest and that isn't really a great time to buy. i'm really hoping to get a big shop with a small hosue attached
11:08 AM laminae: And expand my building capability from there
11:09 AM laminae: I think i may have drink a bit too much of the coolaide on the c-beam too
11:09 AM laminae: it was so heavily advertised as a plate machine i didn't delve too deep into it
11:09 AM gregcnc_: is this a hobby or job?
11:10 AM laminae: Strictly hobby
11:10 AM laminae: I do laser cutting models and projects quite a bit for work
11:10 AM roycroft: so maybe just build a router for now
11:10 AM laminae: But i rarely try to make money with tinkering except when i'm trying to fund more tools
11:11 AM roycroft: and spend the rest of the year learning how to operate the router
11:11 AM roycroft: i promise you'll be investing more time than you think in it
11:11 AM roycroft: after you move, and have more room, think about adding a cnc mill
11:12 AM laminae: I've really enjoyed getting into laser cutting and building scalable projects
11:12 AM laminae: https://imgur.com/a/oKWDp
11:12 AM gregcnc_: those drawers look nice, but it you just pile tools in you can fit 10X as many ;)
11:12 AM laminae: the laser cut foam in the first image was produced using the light table i laser cute out of acyrlic and then the housing i made below
11:13 AM laminae: I'll leave it to you to seel that idea to aerospace engineers haha
11:13 AM pink_vampire: wow
11:13 AM laminae: SOme genious really sold the higher ups on buying corelldraw as the primary software
11:13 AM laminae: WHich was a nightmare
11:13 AM pink_vampire: is that your laser cutter?
11:14 AM laminae: Nah, that's owned by my work
11:14 AM gregcnc_: aerospace and not using catia?
11:14 AM laminae: Kern has a contract, not sure who negotiated that
11:15 AM pink_vampire: gregcnc_: i think solidworks
11:15 AM laminae: o2 lasers are pretty awesome though
11:15 AM roycroft: i could tell from that picture that those tools do not belong to someone who actually uses tools on a regular basis, so all that wasted space is not suprising :)
11:15 AM roycroft: aerospace engineers makes sense
11:16 AM laminae: THose are actually going to be beat to hell by maintainers on the flight line
11:16 AM pink_vampire: laminae: O2??
11:16 AM pink_vampire: pure oxygen laser?
11:16 AM gregcnc_: i've seen the same in machinist toolboxes on instagram
11:16 AM laminae: But to take anythign to an aircraft it needs to be individually etched and have a foamed box just to cross over the apron
11:16 AM laminae: co2*
11:16 AM laminae: spelling is hard
11:17 AM roycroft: i've been watching a show on netflix that's quite a refreshing change
11:17 AM laminae: I was tasked with creating a way to convert images of tools to cut boxes
11:17 AM laminae: Because prior to that it was all done by hand
11:17 AM pink_vampire: i think pure oxygen in a tube with 2 electrods.. this is not a laser..
11:17 AM roycroft: it's a canadian "reality" series about a northern canadian charter freight airline
11:17 AM gregcnc_: that's cool
11:18 AM roycroft: they us old wwii vintage piston engine prop planes
11:18 AM roycroft: what's nice about it is that the plane break down all the time
11:18 AM roycroft: they fly around with spare parts in the cargo hold
11:18 AM roycroft: and when something breaks they just land, fix it, and move on
11:18 AM laminae: I'm actually an avionics technician by trade
11:18 AM roycroft: usually with lots of dripping oil and other messy stuff happening
11:18 AM laminae: Just recently swapped form working the line to fixing computers and circuit cards
11:19 AM laminae: Spent a lot of time crawling around in planes
11:19 AM gregcnc_: buffalo airways?
11:19 AM roycroft: yes
11:19 AM gregcnc_: is that still running or the show froma few years ago?
11:19 AM roycroft: people think airplanes have to be repaired in a clean room or something close to that
11:19 AM roycroft: it's on netflix
11:19 AM roycroft: so probably something old that they picked up
11:20 AM roycroft: the reality is that airline mechanics is just like automotive mechanics with one notable exception:
11:20 AM laminae: Well, there are some things that are a pretty big deal, we don't like screwing around with hydrazine or liquid oxygen and greasy tools
11:20 AM roycroft: airline repairs have to be logged accurately and parts have expiration times
11:20 AM roycroft: that's not the case with cars
11:21 AM roycroft: but other than that, something breaks, you wrench on it until it's working again, and you get on with life
11:21 AM laminae: Radar and attack systems are fragile too
11:21 AM gregcnc_: and it costs an order of magnitude more
11:21 AM gregcnc_: min
11:21 AM roycroft: i do not like all the aggressive personality crap on that show
11:21 AM roycroft: but that's something that is part of all "reality" shows
11:21 AM laminae: I haven't seen it but i'm curious
11:21 AM gregcnc_: all have added drama
11:22 AM gregcnc_: icepilots.com
11:22 AM roycroft: their "newest" planes are turboprops
11:22 AM roycroft: yeah, ice pilots is the show
11:22 AM roycroft: and it's currently on netflix
11:23 AM roycroft: you can learn all about how to repair a dc3 :)
11:23 AM laminae: I remember being deployed and seeing a wire harness taped together with duct tape in a saudi eagle
11:23 AM laminae: And not an old c model jet
11:23 AM laminae: i couldn't believ eit
11:24 AM roycroft: and btw, yes, an order of magnitude greater cost
11:24 AM roycroft: that's the other big difference
11:24 AM laminae: I wonder how much they worry about fod on the prop planes
11:24 AM roycroft: i remember years ago i bought some aviation gauges for a vw bus of mine
11:25 AM roycroft: it was an air-cooled bus
11:25 AM roycroft: i liked the density of some of the aviation stuff
11:25 AM laminae: I hate those old bourdon tube guages
11:25 AM laminae: Crap out a lot
11:25 AM roycroft: like a cylinder head temperature gauge that could display four cylinders in a single 2" unit
11:25 AM laminae: ANd the awful crt displays
11:25 AM gloops: feeling mighty cold in yorkshire, thermometer says 0 C feels a lot colder than that
11:26 AM roycroft: i could buy one for $150 or so
11:26 AM laminae: Yeesh, i love the retro vibe but man that's a lot of hassle
11:26 AM gregcnc_: gloops was -23°C here this morning
11:26 AM roycroft: the exact same guage, made by the same manufacturer, from the same vendor, cost $800 for the "certified" version, which was required to put in a plane
11:26 AM laminae: yikes
11:26 AM roycroft: it got down to 9 here last night
11:26 AM roycroft: we set a record high again yesterday
11:27 AM roycroft: offically 17 degrees, but it was 21 at my house again
11:27 AM gloops: -23C is a bit chilly...
11:27 AM roycroft: indeed
11:27 AM roycroft: we did not get down to freezing at all in january
11:28 AM roycroft: and so far not this month, and the extended forecast shows us not getting close to freezing
11:28 AM gloops: we've never had that i dont think, -17 or 19 was the lowest i can remember - it actually didnt feel any colder than the normal frosts
11:28 AM gregcnc_: cold enough you feel your nose hairs icing
11:28 AM roycroft: this is a truly bizarre winter
11:28 AM roycroft: -23 is the lowest temperature ever recorded here, and that was only a couple years ago
11:28 AM pink_vampire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztlRx7kY2G4
11:29 AM gloops: we've had a pretty normal winter, plenty of frosts and cold weather, not much snow though really
11:29 AM pink_vampire: how much it cost?
11:30 AM gloops: Yorkshire has recorded its coldest night since records began, weather experts say.
11:30 AM gloops: BBC Look North climate correspondent Paul Hudson said the temperature at Topcliffe, near Thirsk in North Yorkshire, was -19C early on Friday. < 2010
11:30 AM gregcnc_: I think base for catia is ~20kUSD
11:30 AM laminae: THink i'll stick with Fusion
11:31 AM gloops: i can remember a sustained period of lows though, -10 and lower over a couple of weeks, nearby lake froze almost solid, people had fires on it
11:32 AM gloops: i downloaded one of the apps that preceded fusion and went into it, this morning, cant install it on this pc though
11:33 AM gloops: autodesk 123D make
11:35 AM laminae: Why choose that over fusion?
11:35 AM laminae: You have access to CAM right in fusion too
11:37 AM gloops: well for one thing it isnt cloud, actually looking on the autodesk site they no longer provide it, but they have got a 3d slicer free, which is what i wanted
11:37 AM gloops: https://apps.autodesk.com/FUSION/en/Detail/Index?id=8699194120463301363&os=Win64&appLang=en
11:37 AM gloops: useful for making 3d from sheets
11:37 AM roycroft: there's supposed to be some cam code for freecad that actually works now
11:37 AM roycroft: i've never used freecad
11:38 AM Connor: Freecad is buggy as crap.
11:38 AM roycroft: but some decent open source cam code would be nice
11:38 AM roycroft: something a little more capable than pycam
11:38 AM gloops: freecad does create code, not so elaborate though, i didnt try any but the code looked ok
11:38 AM Connor: We have this issue at the Maker Space. We can only do classes with open source software.. Which means, No Fusion 360, no CamBam, or anything else..
11:39 AM roycroft: what i was reading about it gives me the impression that it has a long way to go before it's really decent, but it's a good start and it's being actively developed
11:39 AM gloops: F-Engrave makes good code
11:39 AM roycroft: i can't use fusion 360 because it's cloud-based
11:39 AM laminae: WHy strictly open source? fusion is completely free for hobby use
11:39 AM roycroft: and because autocad are spammers :)
11:39 AM laminae: SO anyone interested can try it
11:39 AM roycroft: autodesk, rather
11:40 AM roycroft: makerspaces tend to be rather political, laminae
11:40 AM laminae: Fair enough
11:40 AM roycroft: only allowing open source code is not uncommon
11:40 AM laminae: There aren't many open source programs with significant parametric capability, major limiting factor for learnign design
11:41 AM roycroft: yes
11:41 AM Connor: roycroft: Actually, no politics in this. We're suppose to be accessible to everyone. Which is what Open Source software allows.. Teaching something that's not open source, isn't.. Even if Fusion 360 is "Free" it's not really.. They're going to charge $$$ for it at some point..
11:41 AM roycroft: i use solidworks, but mine is an old version and i can't get the "free" cam bundle for it
11:41 AM Connor: they're just trying to build a user base right now.
11:41 AM roycroft: connor: that is the textbook definition of being political
11:42 AM laminae: I think definitely they want you to learn their software so you will pay for it once you start making money with it
11:42 AM roycroft: and i'm not interested in starting a discussion about the merits of open source vs. commercial software
11:42 AM laminae: But i think that's a very elegant solution where everyone wins
11:42 AM Connor: Anyways, I've hard a hard time finding a good CAD/CAM for Linux..
11:42 AM roycroft: i'm just pointing out that maker spaces tend to be political in making the assertion that you just made
11:43 AM roycroft: and that is why they often only allow open source software
11:43 AM laminae: openscad?
11:43 AM roycroft: my issue with fusion 360 is not that it's commercial/closed source
11:43 AM Connor: I use OpenSCAD for 3D printer models..
11:43 AM roycroft: it's that it is cloud based and requires one to call home on a regular basis
11:43 AM laminae: That would be hard to teach a layman but fits the bill
11:44 AM laminae: That's a fair assertion roy
11:44 AM Connor: Can't export STL's unless it's 3D though...
11:44 AM gloops: blender can do it, nobody seems to use the CAM though, i think its yet to be discovered and blender CAD is a daunting app for a newb
11:45 AM laminae: I think both fusion and blender are very rough for the uninitiated
11:45 AM roycroft: as a slight aside, and i don't want to really get into this, the increasing trend of "leasing" software on a periodic subscription basis vs. the old model of permanent licenses for particular versions may well strengthen the argument for open source software
11:45 AM gloops: probably will roycroft
11:45 AM Connor: roycroft: Yea, SaaS model sucks for the end user..
11:45 AM roycroft: i personally hae no preference
11:46 AM roycroft: for open source vs. commercial, that is
11:46 AM Loetmichel: roycroft: i think the same way
11:46 AM gloops: turning software into a service (and potential data gathering) is a real put off
11:46 AM roycroft: i have a strong bias against licenses that expire
11:46 AM roycroft: my preferene is for software that works
11:46 AM Loetmichel: the "renting software out" is a VERY strong argument FOR OSS
11:46 AM laminae: THis is something i would love to build https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZJCxMN9NWk
11:46 AM roycroft: i have solidworks 2012
11:46 AM roycroft: and autocad 2008
11:46 AM roycroft: i did not get maintenance subsriptions for either
11:47 AM roycroft: both work fine for what i need to do
11:47 AM roycroft: both have permanent licenses
11:47 AM roycroft: i used to keep my adobe creative suite up to do date
11:47 AM roycroft: by purchasing upgrades when a new version came out
11:47 AM Connor: It's a way to get around piracy. If the software has to dial home every so often to update the license.. or like in Fusion360, is cloud based.. it's hard to pirate.
11:47 AM roycroft: i no longer do that
11:48 AM roycroft: because they no longer issue permanent licenses
11:48 AM fragalot: Connor: harder*
11:48 AM roycroft: piracy is only a small part of the reason they do that
11:48 AM roycroft: it's not actually even a reason imo
11:48 AM roycroft: it's an excuse
11:48 AM Connor: It's greed.
11:48 AM fragalot: it is indeed just an excuse
11:48 AM roycroft: the real reason is that their customers don't buy upgrades as often as they would like
11:48 AM fragalot: it's similar to pirated movies
11:48 AM roycroft: people like me
11:49 AM fragalot: they are shared without the ancient FBI notice
11:49 AM roycroft: i bought solidworks 2012
11:49 AM roycroft: and have not given them any money since
11:49 AM fragalot: so the only ones that are annoyed by that notice is those that actually pay
11:49 AM roycroft: actually, my boss bought it for me
11:49 AM gloops: thing is solidworks 2008 does everything most people want to do in 2018
11:49 AM roycroft: but regardless
11:49 AM gloops: no need to buy again
11:49 AM roycroft: yes
11:49 AM fragalot: gloops: Exactly.
11:49 AM roycroft: also
11:50 AM roycroft: i can run autocad 2008 in a virtual machine on my mbp with 4GB of ram dedicated to it
11:50 AM roycroft: if i "upgraded" to autocad 2018 i would have to dedicate a very expensive machine to it
11:50 AM roycroft: and i would not even be able to think about running it reasonably in a vm
11:50 AM roycroft: and don't get me wrong
11:51 AM roycroft: if i used autocad every day, all day long, for my job, i'd have a maintenance subscription, always have the latest version, and give it the hardware it demands
11:51 AM roycroft: but i don't
11:51 AM roycroft: i can do what i need to do with my old version running in a vm
11:52 AM laminae: Oh and roy, back to earlier discussion, i've been setting aside some money for this once i move into the house
11:52 AM laminae: http://www.cncrouterparts.com/pro4896-4-x-8-cnc-router-kit-p-253.html
11:52 AM gloops: and with cloud - no warez
11:53 AM roycroft: i'm pretty strongly opposed to cloud-based computing
11:53 AM roycroft: when you look up at the sky the clouds look light and fluffy and pretty
11:53 AM roycroft: and you may decide that clouds are nice and that you like them
11:54 AM roycroft: but eventually the clouds will turn dark and they will rain on you
11:54 AM fenugrec: cloud-based garbage will be a nightmare in a few years
11:54 AM roycroft: that is guaranteed
11:54 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:54 AM fragalot: hey IchGucksLive
11:54 AM fragalot: roycroft: that's a problem for future you. today you should be amazed by clouds.
11:55 AM fenugrec: want to open that 5-year old project file ? oh the software you need isn't sold anymore ? sucks to be you
11:55 AM roycroft: i have this annoying tendency to look at the long-term view of things
11:56 AM pink_vampire: https://youtu.be/NZJCxMN9NWk?t=10m2s
11:57 AM pink_vampire: look at the heat sink
11:57 AM IchGucksLive: fenugrec: stay open and you are in
11:57 AM pink_vampire: he didn't understand the concept of surface area
11:58 AM roycroft: see, i don't think that open source is the only way to address the problem
11:59 AM roycroft: not cloud-based, not limited license, is a requirement, unless the file format is an open standard, and there is other software that can read the files
11:59 AM roycroft: proprietary file formats usually bite software companies in the arse eventually
11:59 AM roycroft: but they still don't learn
12:00 PM roycroft: one of my favorite examples concerns microsoft
12:00 PM roycroft: back in the '80s they had two levels of office productivity suites
12:00 PM roycroft: there was microsoft works and microsoft office
12:00 PM roycroft: works was the entry level suite
12:00 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: perhaps it's liquid cooled, :p
12:00 PM roycroft: lots of folks started with that
12:00 PM roycroft: then they upgraded to office
12:01 PM roycroft: or were going to
12:01 PM roycroft: but found that microsoft word would not read microsoft works word processor documents
12:01 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: ToT is not an idiot, so I doubt he doesn't realize
12:01 PM roycroft: wordperfect, however, reverse engineered the ms works word processor file format
12:02 PM roycroft: and as a result, wordperfect gained a tremendous amount of market share because people had an upgrade path from works to something more capable
12:02 PM roycroft: m$ never learned
12:02 PM roycroft: apple also never learned
12:03 PM fenugrec: bah, don't need to learn when you're a huge corp with ridiculous market share. Where is wordperfect today
12:03 PM roycroft: when i "upgraded" numbers on one of my macs and found that it would not read numbers documents from the previous version, nor would it save in the older format, i immediately converted all my spreadsheets to .xlm and imported them into openoffice
12:04 PM roycroft: i ditched numbers and have never installed it again
12:04 PM Rab: I like Eagle for PCB, I've been using it a long time and my paid v5.12 license continues to work just fine. But since Autodesk went to subscription licensing, I'll no longer suggest it for anybody trying to learn PCB design. I don't think it's responsible to recommend encumbered tools to noobs.
12:04 PM laminae: Could someone point me to a comprehensive indexing tutorial on youtube that isn't a hack job?
12:05 PM roycroft: wp are still around (owned by corel now) and doing quite well
12:05 PM roycroft: ms office has lost a lot of market share
12:06 PM fragalot: How to process an order:
12:06 PM fragalot: - allow user to create shopping cart
12:06 PM fragalot: - tell user they can pay via home banking and it's free shipping
12:06 PM Rab: I think it's an easy thought experiment to contrast a 1-person CNC shop starting out with Mach3 vs. LinuxCNC, and how the difference in availability and flexibility will affect what's possible for them down the road.
12:06 PM fragalot: - allow user to to through the entire process, and finish by giving the user the selection of 3 banking apps the user does not have
12:06 PM fragalot: - allow user to cancel
12:06 PM fragalot: - clear cart
12:06 PM fragalot: >.<
12:07 PM IchGucksLive: laminae: on what issue
12:07 PM roycroft: equally as annoying are outfits that will not quote shipping until one submits all personal and financial information
12:07 PM IchGucksLive: HEY folks what a game tonight
12:07 PM roycroft: here's a simple fact:
12:07 PM IchGucksLive: but been sleeping last quater
12:08 PM roycroft: you will not get my cc number until tell me how much it will cost to have your product delivered to my door
12:09 PM IchGucksLive: Rab: as so many now do
12:09 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: ?
12:10 PM roycroft: so, folks who have used freecad (since we were discussing it earlier)
12:10 PM roycroft: is it can't-use-it buggy or just kind of buggy?
12:11 PM fenugrec: tried last year, it was unusable buggy. Should try again maybe
12:11 PM fenugrec: but lack of assembly kills it for me
12:11 PM roycroft: oh, no assemblies?
12:11 PM roycroft: that would be a deal breaker
12:11 PM fenugrec: not last I checked
12:11 PM IchGucksLive: fenugrec: use freeCAD we are in a big Step up
12:12 PM IchGucksLive: 0,17
12:12 PM IchGucksLive: Night
12:12 PM fenugrec: IchGucksLive, o you're involved in freecad too ?
12:12 PM Louis_Cypher: hi everybody
12:12 PM IchGucksLive: Servus Louis_Cypher
12:12 PM roycroft: it runs natively on mac os, which would be nice
12:13 PM roycroft: i don't like having to fire up a win7 vm to load solidworks
12:13 PM roycroft: and as i said earlier, i have no cam software for solidworks
12:13 PM roycroft: whenever i get my cnc mill finished that will be important
12:15 PM laminae: Ich, just the basics of indexing accurately
12:16 PM pink_vampire: hi Louis_Cypher
12:20 PM roycroft: so it looks like 0.17 has been majorly rewritten to accommodate assemblies, but assmblies are not yet implemented
12:21 PM roycroft: and it looks like 0.17 is pretty bleeding-edge at the moment
12:21 PM * roycroft wonders if it's worth checking out
12:22 PM fragalot: I'm too dependent on assemblies for what I do
12:23 PM IchGucksLive: fenugrec: yes
12:25 PM Louis_Cypher: I am using 0.17 quite a while now and it is more stable than 0.16 on my computer
12:26 PM roycroft: one wonders why software that has been around for 16 years is only on version 0.17
12:27 PM roycroft: is it competing with the hurd to see how long one can string out a software project before finally releasing version 1.0? :)
12:28 PM Louis_Cypher: Gimp was a 0.99 for about 10 years
12:28 PM Louis_Cypher: Apparantly something good sofware has to undergo once a while ;-)
12:28 PM Rab: Gimp is always 0.99 in my heart.
12:28 PM roycroft: still gimping along ...
12:29 PM roycroft: i made a couple significant errors in my router stand design because i've been doing it all in autocad 2d, and a 3d modeling program would have prevented those errors
12:30 PM roycroft: so i've been going back and relearning solidworks (which i never knew well)
12:30 PM roycroft: i kind of wonder if it's worth spending time learing freecad instead
12:31 PM roycroft: since i don't need to generate gcode yet it might be prudent to wait and see if assemblies are implemented within the next year or so
12:32 PM Louis_Cypher: If you want to be fast you might try onshape
12:33 PM Louis_Cypher: No need to install
12:33 PM Louis_Cypher: Pretty easy to use
12:34 PM roycroft: you missed the earlier discussion about cloud-based software/storage obviously :)
12:35 PM fragalot: roycroft: Eh. cloud has it's place.. Good for throwaway trial & error projects
12:35 PM roycroft: sure
12:38 PM IchGucksLive: Chris_Morley: online ?
12:41 PM Deejay: re
12:43 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8 Superbowl night got me a sleepü leek
12:46 PM Crom: OUCH! 3" Parallels $305USD
12:47 PM Crom: 6" Parallel's $30 set
12:47 PM fragalot: but are they actually parallel
12:48 PM Crom: true... I have an X2, I don't need THAT parallel...
12:49 PM Crom: time to find a plasma cutter and surface grinder... start making 3" parallels out of 6"
12:49 PM Louis_Cypher: Obviously
12:49 PM Louis_Cypher: Sorry about that
12:49 PM fragalot: lol
12:50 PM Crom: oh didn't check LMS
12:51 PM fragalot: hi miss0r
12:51 PM SpeedEvil: Lurk on ebay, you can find all sorts of odd metrology stuff cheapish
12:51 PM miss0r: hello fragalot
12:52 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Glass-Optical-Flat-Parallel-Set-65-mm-to-testing-micrometer-50-75-mm-NEW-USSR/182875132773?hash=item2a94351365:g:xKQAAOSwO9JZ~JwS as an example
12:52 PM SpeedEvil: if you can work out how to use it appropriately
12:53 PM miss0r: I have a set of those
12:53 PM gloops: facebook 'marketplace' is becoming the place to look for tools
12:53 PM miss0r: I know how to use them, but I hardly ever do. I think I've used them once, since it was handed to me
12:53 PM fragalot: SpeedEvil: don't you need a special light source
12:54 PM miss0r: fragalot: It is recommended that you have a Ra value of above 95%
12:54 PM SpeedEvil: A LASER diode + a pager motor or similar to spin a translucent disk in the beam works
12:55 PM Crom: $50.75USD Ordered LMS $40+tax+shipping
12:56 PM sync: SpeedEvil: use a pingpong ball
12:56 PM Crom: Little Machine Shop, If I had another car, I could go to their showroom and spend more in gas, than shipping
12:57 PM SpeedEvil: sync: spinnign has a point - simple diffusors don't work and still produce speckle
12:58 PM SpeedEvil: Also, in principle you can operate a (non DPSS) LASER just below its lasing point and get a speckle-free light
12:59 PM sync: Try it
12:59 PM sync: It works.
12:59 PM gregcnc_: lol bitcoin
01:00 PM fragalot: gregcnc_: what happened?
01:00 PM gregcnc_: <7kUSD
01:01 PM fragalot: Meh
01:01 PM fragalot: it'l be a real laugh when it dips back down under 1k
01:04 PM gloops: UK has refused extradition of lowry love, hacker who faced 99 year sentence in usa
01:04 PM gregcnc_: it costs ~4kUSD to mine a bitcoin today,
01:04 PM gregcnc_: in electricity
01:04 PM gloops: nasa, fbi, federal reserve, us army - all hacked and massive data theft
01:05 PM fragalot: gregcnc_: doesn't matter what it costs to mine -- it's value is purely decided on what people want to pay for it
01:06 PM gregcnc_: sure like anything else
01:13 PM pink_vampire: i'm freezing
01:13 PM * fragalot hands pink_vampire This old Tony's heatsink
01:13 PM pink_vampire: 26f -3c
01:13 PM pink_vampire: LOLLLLLL
01:18 PM FinboySlick: fragalot: Which video is the heatsink referring to? I need to brush up on Tony culture.
01:19 PM fragalot: 18:56 < pink_vampire> https://youtu.be/NZJCxMN9NWk?t=10m2s
01:20 PM pink_vampire: the one you liked to it
01:22 PM pink_vampire: http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Jigsaw-Crosscut-Sled-Perfect-Jigsaw-Cuts-Every/
01:22 PM pink_vampire: https://youtu.be/5BdyKBAvGkY
01:38 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: or you could skip all of that and just put the square on top of the piece you want to cut and run the jigsaw's sole against it
01:39 PM pink_vampire: threr
01:39 PM pink_vampire: there is better option
01:39 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/w2q72UV.mp4
01:40 PM gloops: joinery in the small shop used to be all about the ability to make jigs and fences
01:40 PM fragalot: hard to beat those for perfectly square cuts :P
01:40 PM fragalot: slow as can be compared to a bandsaw, but it is possible to cut .2mm slices
01:40 PM FinboySlick: pink_vampire: Trimming 123 blocks to size... Hacksaw is the best tool for the job ;)
01:41 PM pink_vampire: FinboySlick: look again
01:41 PM FinboySlick: pink_vampire: I saw, I was just being silly.
01:41 PM gloops: make a fretsaw
01:41 PM pink_vampire: i have a violin..
01:42 PM pink_vampire: one day i will put frets on it
01:42 PM fragalot: ferrets*
01:42 PM fragalot: and they typically go inside of the violin
01:42 PM pink_vampire: FinboySlick: https://i.imgur.com/cwYwZPu.jpg
01:43 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: is that your machine?
01:43 PM pink_vampire: fragalot: on some electric violins there is frets
01:43 PM pink_vampire: yes
01:43 PM fragalot: Jealous.
01:43 PM pink_vampire: i restored it
01:44 PM pink_vampire: before https://i.imgur.com/mg4CUkX.png
01:44 PM fragalot: I have a mini bandsaw (a high quality one, not one of those chinese crud ones), but the only downside I found is that it has no automatic downfeed
01:44 PM pink_vampire: after https://i.imgur.com/3j7aLU4.png
01:44 PM fragalot: so I have to stand there, hold the handle to guide it down, and keep it on >.>
01:45 PM fragalot: NEat.
01:45 PM pink_vampire: what model?
01:45 PM pink_vampire: thanks :)
01:45 PM gloops: wow dji falling fast
01:46 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: hang on
01:46 PM gloops: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ws0agmM0AnA/U_6Wj379WTI/AAAAAAAAVGQ/Fo9_endsHPg/s1600/Hobbies-Gem-scrollsaw-1.jpg
01:46 PM gloops: ive got one of these to do up
01:46 PM pink_vampire: whyy
01:47 PM pink_vampire: get the HF one it will do better job
01:47 PM gloops: theyre nice things
01:47 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: one of these. http://crispyn.be/crimac-lintzaag-sc-100.html -- because it fits my size of shop best.
01:47 PM gloops: the wheels spin very freely, no bearings i can see, unless a brass bush or something
01:48 PM fragalot: it's really accurate and solid compared to the chinese copies
01:49 PM pink_vampire: and you want to add bar feeder to it?
01:49 PM fragalot: gloops: the bearings may be babbit
01:50 PM fenugrec: hmm, bandsaws... I'm thinking the VC260 (http://lebaut.com/fr/scies/62-scie-a-lame-circulaire-manuelle-trennjaeger.html) I got might be overkill, not to mention dirty
01:51 PM fragalot: fenugrec: I've used one of those for 5 years, they're great, but the second you chip one tooth the whole blade is garbage. (must be resharpened)
01:51 PM fenugrec: plus no autofeed... although the head is heavy enough
01:52 PM fenugrec: fragalot, interesting... new blades are pricy (i.e. 3x what I paid for the entire machine) , resharpening is cheap but inconvenient. What caused tooth breakage in your case ? insufficient clamping ?
01:52 PM fragalot: fenugrec: other users using them for thin wall stuff & feeding it too fast.
01:53 PM fenugrec: aah. Only worked with a cold saw once or twice myself, I guess it's more akin to a milling operation than sawing
01:54 PM fragalot: yeah. think thin horizontal milling cutter :P
01:54 PM fenugrec: fragalot, re thin wall : if you believe the charts on these machines, you'd need about 5 different blades to cover "general purpose" sawing !
01:54 PM fenugrec: right
01:54 PM fragalot: yup, we used 1 size fits none.
01:55 PM fenugrec: hah! do you remember what tooth pitch
01:55 PM fragalot: i'd recognize it if I saw it :P
01:56 PM fragalot: looks similar to what you showed in that picture
01:56 PM fenugrec: right. probably 4-6mm-ish
01:56 PM fragalot: 3-4 I believe
01:56 PM fragalot: and since we cut mostly 2mm wall stuff, feeding it hard guaranteed to chip a tooth
01:57 PM fragalot: and that one chipped tooth would then take out half of the blade as the other teeth tried to cut that one tooth
01:58 PM gregcnc_: NEED MORE TPI
01:58 PM fenugrec: ooo
01:58 PM gloops: http://www.justbandsawblades.co.uk/
01:59 PM gloops: cheap as chips, good blades
01:59 PM fragalot: gregcnc_: yup. Wasn't my call though.
01:59 PM fenugrec: yeah I don't think they make them much finer than 3-4mm
02:00 PM fragalot: gloops: I typically order from tuffsaws -- great blades.
02:00 PM fragalot: really nice welds on them too
02:01 PM gloops: when i first got blades from that site it was literally just a list of text like microsoft work doc
02:01 PM gloops: word
02:11 PM miss0r: fragalot: I just figured out how to mount this thing :D
02:11 PM fragalot: miss0r: !
02:11 PM fragalot: miss0r: with screws?
02:11 PM miss0r: exactly " :D
02:11 PM fragalot: i knew it.
02:12 PM miss0r: I've also drawn a cad of the lower half of the end chassis, that will hold it
02:13 PM miss0r: plus I've made the shaft coubler that will transfer the rotation
02:13 PM fragalot: how are you going to do that part?
02:14 PM fragalot: broach the splines, or not bother?
02:15 PM Connor: OKay, so, who's familiar with the X screw arrangement on Bridgeport mill?
02:15 PM miss0r: I actualy turned down one of the small arms that came with the set, and epoxyed the spline part into a stainless shaft
02:15 PM miss0r: fragalot: https://imgur.com/a/f0lfa
02:16 PM fragalot: oh you took the easy way out (looks good :D)
02:16 PM Connor: miss0r: What kind of servo is that? and what is that?
02:17 PM miss0r: connor: That is an RC servo(continous rotation), and the other part is the rotating head for my EDM
02:17 PM Connor: Ahh.
02:17 PM Connor: RC Servo? Really? :)
02:17 PM miss0r: fragalot: I don't know about easy, Imagine trying to line up such a short peice of plastic in a tight bore...
02:18 PM miss0r: Connor: Yeah. I just needed something lightweight, small & powerfull realy. AND slow RPM.
02:18 PM miss0r: Connor; Theres lots of parts in this thing that could make you raise an eyebrow ;)
02:18 PM Connor: :)
02:19 PM fragalot: miss0r: hehe, fair point.
02:20 PM miss0r: Connor: for your amusement, I've made an imgur post of the pictures I have so far of this build. It is uploading, give it a sec
02:21 PM enleth: Connor: what's the problem with the X screw?
02:21 PM Connor: enleth: I was installing the power feed.. Found that they installed the double bearings on the right hand side instead of the left.. looks like they had the screw turned around.. miss-match parts and lots of shims.
02:22 PM miss0r: connor: This is the build. Don't mind the linear guide PDF in there, for whatever reason I managed to add that as well, and I can't seem to delete it: https://imgur.com/a/P9n4I
02:22 PM Connor: and the screw looks a bit odd too.. it has some under-cuts, and they had a shaft adapter/spacer too..
02:23 PM enleth: Crom: weird, no idea why, sorry
02:23 PM enleth: does it fit the other way around?
02:24 PM pink_vampire: miss0r: what power supply are you using for the edm?
02:24 PM miss0r: pink_vampire: Home build RC supply
02:25 PM Connor: I swapped them around.. but, I'm still a tad concerned that not everything is correct.. they had 2 different dial holders. one was flat (newer style I think) and one had a shoulder....
02:25 PM miss0r: pink_vampire: I did build a pulse supply, but I am having some issues with it
02:25 PM Connor: the double bearing end cap has the bearing retainer ring with 3 socket head screws (old style)
02:25 PM pink_vampire: is that a sinker?
02:25 PM miss0r: pink_vampire: Basically, yeah
02:25 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: What issues?
02:26 PM fragalot: miss0r: what issues? *
02:26 PM Connor: I need to inspect the nuts and see if it's the newer style that requires the special backlash wrench, or the older one that can be done with a very long screw driver..
02:26 PM pink_vampire: so you go down, contact, then go up, then down...
02:26 PM miss0r: fragalot: I never quite figured out a way to make my IGBT transistors last. I guess I just need to replace them with some beefy MOSFETs
02:27 PM miss0r: But at this point I am quite happy with the results from the RC one
02:27 PM miss0r: pink_vampire: No contact. I just maintain a spark gap
02:27 PM pink_vampire: how...
02:27 PM Connor: enleth: I'm going to take pictures of all the parts and measurements of the screw tomorrow and double check with a repair outfit..
02:27 PM fragalot: my first EDM trials used a doorbell power supply
02:28 PM fragalot: as in, the actual doorbell
02:28 PM pink_vampire: i need to take my doorbell apart
02:28 PM roycroft: ding dong! zap your tap!
02:28 PM fragalot: :P
02:28 PM miss0r: I measure the current used to charge the output cap. Then I have a stepper "push" the electrode down, until I reach a variable load(defined by a potmeter). Then the stepper stops. if I get overcurrent the stepper retracts, ect
02:28 PM pink_vampire: LOOL
02:28 PM fragalot: I thought it was quite clever until I found out the idea was not new
02:29 PM * roycroft wonders how many edm trials commenced shortly after a broken tap incident
02:29 PM fragalot: haha
02:29 PM miss0r: fragalot: I did my first EDM with a 6v door bell :) I fried it something fierce :D
02:29 PM fragalot: xD
02:29 PM fragalot: mine worked alright
02:29 PM fragalot: slow as can be, but it worked!
02:30 PM pink_vampire: roycroft: I need to make a bumper sticker "ding dong! zap your tap!"
02:30 PM miss0r: so did mine, if you had a spare month to get a broken tap out
02:30 PM fragalot: not quite as inventive as my first 3D printer ~14 years ago using an old iron and some k'nex
02:30 PM gloops: so long as its not one of those despicable Fur Elise doorbells
02:31 PM fragalot: lol
02:31 PM miss0r: pink_vampire: This is the proto type test run: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BrbwNgFe8D2m1Dmtb2OdeaanEL2sRaFV/view?usp=sharing
02:31 PM FinboySlick: Hey, no dissing Bethoven in this channel!
02:31 PM miss0r: hahaha
02:31 PM pink_vampire: sounds like the real one!
02:31 PM pink_vampire: is that a mineral oil
02:31 PM pink_vampire: or water?
02:32 PM miss0r: Demineralized(?) water
02:32 PM miss0r: Here you can see it run with the light on, and the machine is shown: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qrjDLj8jO6tV0mDCXKre4svOvgspbgSO
02:32 PM miss0r: (The proto type, mind you!)
02:32 PM pink_vampire: look super
02:33 PM miss0r: Not as super as the one I am building now ;)
02:33 PM pink_vampire: i will be fine with that
02:33 PM miss0r: Hehe, You interrested in my beta? :D
02:33 PM gloops: i made a vid, it would not make much sense to those not..in the know..though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDTpnf7DIHM
02:33 PM pink_vampire: i just need a power supply for it
02:34 PM FinboySlick: How's the typical setup? Monitoring voltage to decide when you advance?
02:34 PM miss0r: pink_vampire: Now that is a simple task! :)
02:34 PM Connor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUN4_-xp1Wc
02:35 PM pink_vampire: miss0r: not for me
02:35 PM miss0r: FinboySlick: I measure current. But, yeah - you could also measure voltage
02:35 PM pink_vampire: what is the trick?
02:35 PM pink_vampire: if the current drop you push the electrode down?
02:35 PM miss0r: pink_vampire: I'll draw you a map. The hardest part of this thing is to control the stepper. and that is not realy hard. I used a PLC. but i will replace it with an arduino, as it can read an analog value alot faster
02:35 PM miss0r: basically, yeah
02:37 PM FinboySlick: miss0r: How do you detect when to stop/start the advance? As soon as you see conductivity?
02:37 PM pink_vampire: so you read the current and push it to a PID controller and that control the position of the stepper?
02:38 PM miss0r: FinboySlick: I set the current I want it to draw, and it advanced until it is drawing said current. when it is drawing the predetermined current +/- some value(I can't remember what I set that to) it will stop moving. When the current drops below the minimum it will advance again. And should it short circuit, it will withdraw the electrode until it gets within the spectre again
02:42 PM miss0r: pink_vampire: Not that advanced realy, the stepper has not 'position' per say. That will be added so it can swiftly return to where it had encountered a short circuit after the retract. But at the moment it is just moving the thing
02:42 PM pink_vampire: what power are you feed to the electrode?
02:42 PM pink_vampire: volt / amps?
02:42 PM pink_vampire: i see
02:42 PM miss0r: at the moment I'm feeding it 60 volts at 20 amps
02:42 PM pink_vampire: wow
02:42 PM miss0r: (that is the powersupply side). on the output side it hardly ever gets above 30 volts 20A
02:42 PM miss0r: Thats the thing with a current limiting resistor charging a capasitor
02:43 PM pink_vampire: fragalot: 1.2KV DC
02:43 PM pink_vampire: KW*
02:43 PM miss0r: (a quite large 3 phase one) with one transformer for each phase
02:44 PM pink_vampire: i will stay with the ding dong! zap your tap!
02:44 PM fragalot: hehe
02:44 PM miss0r: You can have my beta version free of charge, if you promise me it will not just end up in the bottom of a closet collecting dust ;)
02:45 PM fragalot: my closets are FULL... but it could collect dust on top
02:45 PM miss0r: because, that is already what is going to happen :)
02:45 PM pink_vampire: miss0r: did you see how I love those stuff
02:45 PM miss0r: With the beta version, I managed to 'drill' a @5mm hole through a 15mm peice of metal is just over 2 minuts
02:45 PM miss0r: pink_vampire: Yeah :] That is what had me worried
02:46 PM fragalot: that's a lot faster than I would imagine
02:46 PM miss0r: pink_vampire: What realy had my mind boggling about this thing, is the through spindle coolant
02:47 PM miss0r: fragalot: its quite easy, if you are not too worried about surface finish :) Which i'm not, as I will only be using thins thing to remove bolts & taps
02:47 PM pink_vampire: i was trying to build a mini sinker
02:47 PM miss0r: What stopped'ya ?
02:47 PM pink_vampire: the power supply
02:47 PM fragalot: miss0r: is it big enough to fit an engine block? :p
02:47 PM FinboySlick: How fast does the tool wear out?
02:48 PM pink_vampire: how to measure DC current with arduino
02:48 PM pink_vampire: let me take a pic
02:48 PM miss0r: fragalot: wha?
02:48 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: easiest way is a shunt resistor and an amplifier circuit
02:48 PM fragalot: miss0r: huh?
02:49 PM pink_vampire: "amplifier circuit" ???
02:49 PM miss0r: FinboySlick: with mild steel i'm getting 3/4 material removal & 1/4 electrode wear, roughly. But to me that is not an exact science
02:49 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: you measure the voltage drop over a very small known value resistor, and amplify it to a value that the arduino can read.
02:50 PM pink_vampire: how??
02:50 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: so say that you have a 0.01 ohm resistor, and push through 20A, it will read 0.2V, but your arduino can not read that value
02:50 PM miss0r: pink_vampire: I used an active DC current transformer. That is ajustable in 5 amp increments from 5 to 25. and it outputs either 4-20mA or 0-10V
02:50 PM miss0r: I used the 0-10v and did a voltage divider, so I could feed it into the arduino
02:50 PM fragalot: if you don't know electronics, miss0r's approach of buying jelly bean parts is better :D
02:50 PM miss0r: Hey!
02:51 PM miss0r: .. hes right though
02:51 PM FinboySlick: We bought enormous shunt resistors here for a solar pannel.
02:51 PM pink_vampire: do you have a link / photo of the "active DC current transformer"
02:51 PM FinboySlick: They look like piece of a chocolate tablet.
02:51 PM miss0r: I could find one, 2 secs
02:51 PM pink_vampire: thanks!
02:52 PM miss0r: pink_vampire: Not the one I used, but something simular: http://www.nktechnologies.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/DT-3wire.jpg
02:52 PM fragalot: i'm trying to remember the one I used to use a lot
02:53 PM fragalot: I remember it having 210 in the model number, lol
02:53 PM miss0r: now that narrows it down :P
02:53 PM pink_vampire: how much it cost?
02:54 PM fragalot: miss0r: it was from a UK company >.>
02:54 PM fragalot: and it was black
02:55 PM miss0r: pink_vampire: I can't remember, I reused an old one I had laying around. I will see if I can find a price for you online, give me a sec
02:55 PM miss0r: fragalot: We're getting there
02:56 PM pink_vampire: this is the mini sinker that i was start to build https://i.imgur.com/0Ff9heC.jpg
02:56 PM pink_vampire: the drill chuck is just a demo
02:56 PM pink_vampire: i want to get small pin vise
02:57 PM gloops: how does that work?
02:57 PM fragalot: miss0r: i'm desperately trying google images, lol
02:57 PM pink_vampire: gloops: what do you mean?
02:58 PM gloops: well, i mean, what does it do?
02:58 PM pink_vampire: the sinker?
02:58 PM fragalot: miss0r: DIN rail mount, has 4-position connector on top, one pin is not used, 2 are power, one is 0-10V out... has DIP switches to select current range & filtering
02:58 PM gloops: yeah
02:58 PM miss0r: fragalot: You could be searching vfor days lol
02:58 PM fragalot: I dO NOT YIELD
02:59 PM pink_vampire: fragalot: link?
02:59 PM fragalot: GIVE ME A MINUTE WOMAN!
02:59 PM fragalot: :)
03:00 PM pink_vampire: heh
03:00 PM fragalot: I need a reverse image lookup where I can draw the approximate shape
03:00 PM fragalot: found them
03:00 PM pink_vampire: i thought you quote something
03:00 PM fragalot: https://www.seneca.it/en/linee-di-prodotto/energia-e-misure-elettriche/trasformatori-di-corrente-serie-t201/t201dc/
03:01 PM fragalot: I was
03:01 PM fragalot: T201DCH is the model number that has a 0-10V output
03:02 PM pink_vampire: andhow complicated is to convert 0-10 to 0-5?
03:02 PM fragalot: childs play
03:02 PM pink_vampire: and how*
03:02 PM miss0r: absolutly a walk in the park.
03:02 PM fragalot: get 2 1k resistors, put them in series
03:02 PM miss0r: Look up voltage divider
03:02 PM fragalot: connect one end to GND, the other end to the 0-10V signal, and the center will be 0-5V
03:02 PM pink_vampire: i'm such a noob
03:02 PM pink_vampire: lol
03:03 PM miss0r: What is not so easy, right now is finding a suitable current transformer. pink_vampire, I will get back on this tomorrow evening. I have to get gone now
03:03 PM pink_vampire: the cnc machine use 20A 72V
03:03 PM miss0r: fragalot might soon find the unit he knows :)
03:03 PM fragalot: miss0r: I already did!
03:03 PM miss0r: Wha !
03:03 PM miss0r: oh, I see
03:03 PM fragalot: I'm just that good.
03:04 PM * miss0r bows to fragalot
03:04 PM pink_vampire: I even build a mount for it
03:04 PM fragalot: http://www.logicbus.com/T201DCH_p_4136.html -- there may be cheaper sources
03:05 PM miss0r: pink_vampire: that unit fragalot just posted seems nice :)
03:05 PM miss0r: I realy need to get going now. See you around
03:05 PM pink_vampire: thank you aloooot!
03:06 PM pink_vampire: anyway this is 1.5KW DC power supply https://i.imgur.com/vUmUIK7.png
03:07 PM fragalot: Big Berta!
03:09 PM pink_vampire: one day she will become Small Berta
03:09 PM fragalot: hehe
03:10 PM fragalot: what's that text on the wall
03:11 PM pink_vampire: text?
03:12 PM JT-Shop: uh oh a wire explosion
03:12 PM fragalot: Lado A ... e De Fu... arar Pa... Palado .. as andsoon
03:12 PM fragalot: left of the start switch
03:12 PM pink_vampire: LOLLL
03:12 PM pink_vampire: just the factory marks on the OSB
03:13 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/4eebqfD.png
03:14 PM pink_vampire: fragalot: ^
03:14 PM fragalot: HA.
03:16 PM pink_vampire: I need a design for small brake
03:16 PM fragalot: to bend sheet metal?
03:16 PM fragalot: ToT made a nice one
03:17 PM pink_vampire: yes
03:17 PM pink_vampire: who is TOT?
03:17 PM djdelorie: This Old Tony?
03:17 PM fragalot: ^
03:18 PM pink_vampire: without welding?
03:19 PM fragalot: you never mentioned that restriction...
03:19 PM gloops: we need a linuxcnc4wood channel
03:19 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: https://imaginen4tion.blogspot.be/2012/07/diy-metal-break-continued-2.html
03:20 PM pink_vampire: gloops: why?
03:20 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: it's not going to bend a tight radius, and it's low duty.. but functional.
03:20 PM fragalot: gloops: I bet using an EDM would look cool though on wood
03:21 PM gloops: this is not my game pink_vampire, electronics, metalwork etc, even though i must appear profoundly competent in those fields
03:21 PM pink_vampire: I want to bend 1/16" aluminum
03:21 PM gloops: fragalot they do some kind of lightning effect on wood
03:22 PM pink_vampire: with 20A and water..
03:22 PM fragalot: gloops: lichtenberg.
03:22 PM gloops: i was going to do some drawing tonight, but 2 steak and kidney pies and a pile of chips and mushy peas, i dont feel like it now
03:23 PM djdelorie: do not eat metal chips
03:23 PM pink_vampire: lol
03:23 PM djdelorie: or even wood chips
03:24 PM pink_vampire: it contain a lot of iron.
03:24 PM pink_vampire: it contain a lot fibers
03:24 PM fragalot: djdelorie: hey if rosewood tastes as good as it smells...
03:24 PM gloops: sawdust is ok to eat, the russians made bread with it in the war
03:24 PM djdelorie: but if you did, it would explain why you don't feel like doing anything...
03:24 PM pink_vampire: https://www.benefiber.com/
03:25 PM gloops: if i go to bed now ill be up at stupid o clock
03:26 PM pink_vampire: you need to make chips
03:26 PM djdelorie: but not eat them
03:26 PM gloops: im trying to make chips, believe me
03:26 PM pink_vampire: gloops: do you want to see my first cnc machine
03:26 PM gloops: yes
03:27 PM pink_vampire: yours cut better
03:27 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/f3IogGI.png
03:28 PM pink_vampire: gloops: ^
03:28 PM gloops: hey thats ok, the vision is there
03:29 PM pink_vampire: it makes few circles and lines...
03:29 PM gloops: lol, but it is a cnc machine
03:30 PM fragalot: hehe
03:30 PM pink_vampire: but for that we need #linuxcncforPAPER
03:30 PM roycroft: i wish native english speaking people who make youtube videros would learn how to speak english before narrating them
03:31 PM roycroft: is that too much to ask?
03:31 PM fragalot: roycroft: but that's half the charm of photoninduction!
03:31 PM gloops: i love to hear some of the southern american accents
03:31 PM roycroft: i was trying to watch a freecad video on my lunch break, as ichguckslive indicated that there has been signficant feature enhancement lately
03:31 PM roycroft: the guy started out calling it "free-sea-ay-dee"
03:31 PM roycroft: and kept saying that
03:32 PM fragalot: lol
03:32 PM roycroft: i got past that, and he finally stopped saying it
03:32 PM roycroft: then he was talking about fillets/chamfers
03:32 PM roycroft: and he must have said "fill-lay" 100 times
03:32 PM fragalot: I think I know what ivdeo you're talking about
03:32 PM fragalot: I could not watch it.
03:32 PM roycroft: a "fill-lay" is thinly sliced piece of food
03:32 PM gloops: that is Ichs isnt it? lol
03:32 PM pink_vampire: roycroft: to cure that we watch AVE
03:33 PM Louis_Cypher: Did one ever compare the stepper max speed between an arduino based GRBL system and linuxcnc?
03:33 PM roycroft: an architectural or engineered feature is a "fill-it"
03:33 PM roycroft: this is not a regionalism thing
03:33 PM roycroft: it's a lack of knowing one's own native tongue thing
03:33 PM roycroft: i could not watch the whole video
03:33 PM gloops: Louis yes i think arduino is a bit faster, in theory
03:34 PM Louis_Cypher: OK. So you think it is about the same?
03:34 PM gloops: but ill let the experts answer that
03:34 PM pink_vampire: Louis_Cypher: never used GRBL
03:34 PM roycroft: i'm actually impressed with myself that i made it several minutes into that video
03:34 PM gloops: the people ive seen using grbl seem to have a lot of problems keeping it going
03:34 PM roycroft: unfortuantely, poor presentation does not advance one's cause - more often than not it's harmful to one's cause
03:36 PM roycroft: at this point i think i'll stick to solidworks do that i don't have to worry about slicing fish as part of my design regimen
03:36 PM roycroft: so that, rather
03:36 PM gloops: there was someone on facebook built a machine, used grbl and claimed 300-400ipm, but it never ran more than about 2 minutes
03:37 PM fragalot: Louis_Cypher: microcontroller based step generators have one huge advantage over linuxcnc -- there is no OS to get in the way.
03:37 PM Louis_Cypher: I have GRBL on my shapeoko and I never experienced any problems
03:37 PM fragalot: gloops: most of the time that is due to wiring or power issues
03:38 PM Louis_Cypher: fragalot: That was my guess
03:38 PM pink_vampire: someone use those switches? https://www.ebay.com/itm/271968134622
03:38 PM Louis_Cypher: Same with mine. As soon as you filter the sensors it works fine
03:39 PM gloops: fragalot yes that was the diagnosis, extensive measures to combat noise were made, some claimed grbl was inherently unstable, he stopped posted in the end so dont know if it was cured
03:39 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: not those specifically.
03:39 PM pink_vampire: I order feww
03:39 PM Louis_Cypher: How often do you have ruined parts due to computer related failures? Chrashes, Hangups, and the like? Never have used linuxcnc for a longer time up to know
03:40 PM Louis_Cypher: no milling yet
03:40 PM fragalot: gloops: the issue with microcontrollers is that you have to choose between how realtime and responsive you want to be,.. and noise.
03:40 PM pink_vampire: hope they make the "click"
03:40 PM fragalot: so if you have some signal bounce, depending on how it was programmed, it may see hundreds of pulses
03:40 PM pink_vampire: Louis_Cypher: I had a a lot of fails in mach3
03:41 PM pink_vampire: linuxcnc is rock solid
03:41 PM Louis_Cypher: that's good to hear
03:41 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: they don't really look .. clicky.
03:41 PM Louis_Cypher: want to do 18hour jobs and the like
03:41 PM gloops: yes fragalot, as said - in theory, faster
03:41 PM fragalot: I know of no issues with linuxcnc
03:41 PM gloops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1mxS7WI-tg
03:42 PM gloops: GRBL ran the cycle in 3:20 vs LinuxCNC at 5:35
03:42 PM fragalot: gloops: did it have the same acceleration settings though?
03:42 PM gloops: i dunno didnt really watch it closely
03:43 PM Louis_Cypher: Uhhh, this guy is using strange units ;-)
03:43 PM Louis_Cypher: Already watched that one
03:43 PM pink_vampire: Louis_Cypher: i think you should use GRBL
03:43 PM pink_vampire: it is cheaper faster,
03:44 PM pink_vampire: better display
03:44 PM gloops: not that many people use it
03:44 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: better display?
03:44 PM Louis_Cypher: I already have all the stuff needed to use linuxcnc
03:44 PM pink_vampire: very good probing
03:44 PM Louis_Cypher: Maybe you wanna get me out of here ;-)
03:44 PM gloops: plus, unlikely linuxcnc will be the inhibiting factor in a diy build
03:44 PM pink_vampire: no
03:45 PM Louis_Cypher: Just wanted to be sure stability isn't an issue
03:45 PM roycroft: that video does not show any parts
03:45 PM roycroft: no parts no dice
03:46 PM Louis_Cypher: My first ubuntu based linuxcnc wasn't too stable, but I think it was ubuntu crashing
03:46 PM pink_vampire: GRBL is better, it has full G & M codes support
03:46 PM Louis_Cypher: Running debian it never crashed and is much more responsive
03:47 PM Louis_Cypher: I'm a bit puzzled you are advertising GRBL that much
03:47 PM roycroft: welcome to the internet relay chat
03:47 PM Deejay: gn8
03:47 PM fragalot: xD
03:47 PM roycroft: home of ubiquitous advocacy and zealotry
03:48 PM fragalot: roycroft: I can make you a board that runs the roadrunner code in a matter of milliseconds.
03:48 PM fragalot: as long as I don't need to show the parts
03:48 PM Louis_Cypher: :-D
03:48 PM fragalot: I can also guarantee it will never crash.
03:49 PM gloops: i think for the individual there is some psychology involved in choosing a controller
03:49 PM Louis_Cypher: I have both options
03:49 PM roycroft: i have no idea whether grbl on an arduino outperforms linuxcnc
03:49 PM pink_vampire: I can show you something that I did on linux cnc
03:49 PM pcw_mesa: That video is before LinuxCNC new tractory planner
03:49 PM roycroft: and that video does not enlighten me in the least
03:49 PM gloops: i tried mach 3 and i just didnt like it, id never like it even if it was/is great
03:49 PM pink_vampire: this is 3d machined part https://i.imgur.com/cbGNhB6.png
03:49 PM roycroft: if it wants to do benchmarks it needs to show the finished parts made with each
03:49 PM pcw_mesa: later tests show about =
03:49 PM roycroft: otherwise it is completely meaningless
03:49 PM pink_vampire: Louis_Cypher: ^
03:50 PM Louis_Cypher: Wow! That's nice
03:50 PM pink_vampire: if you say so..
03:50 PM Louis_Cypher: Is that stainless steel?
03:50 PM pink_vampire: aluminum
03:51 PM Louis_Cypher: Good! You would have made me nervous :-D
03:51 PM roycroft: i can make a dresser a lot faster with a solid block of wood and a chain saw than i can cutting up boards and joining them nicely
03:51 PM * fragalot refrains from commenting what it looks like
03:51 PM pink_vampire: there is a bigger version if you like
03:52 PM XXCoder: isnt that one of your earliest projects when you come in here for first time
03:52 PM pink_vampire: correct
03:52 PM MarcelineVQ: roycroft, fragalot: some people would pay more for the chainsawed one as well, for some reason. here's the real trick though, join up rough bits into a dresser-like shape then chainsaw them down a little to fit.
03:52 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/yAue4Ey.png
03:53 PM pink_vampire: Louis_Cypher: this is also a 3d machined part
03:54 PM roycroft: sure, marcelinevq
03:54 PM roycroft: i get the rustic furniture thing
03:55 PM XXCoder: gt wood drawer, chainsaw nicks and stuff into it
03:55 PM XXCoder: its legally chainsawed drawer
03:55 PM roycroft: the point is that you can't compare performance of the two processes if the results are not identical
03:55 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: how did you do the undercut?
03:56 PM pink_vampire: on the invisible 5th axis
03:56 PM fragalot: MarcelineVQ: chainsawed what?
03:56 PM gloops: needs better soft body physics pink_vampire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaWtfHOXYko
03:57 PM MarcelineVQ: dresser, I had misread and thought you were responding to roycroft instead of pink_vampire which is how your name got included
03:57 PM pink_vampire: fragalot: first cut https://i.imgur.com/WhHoT9p.png
03:57 PM Crom_: yay Smoothieboard is here... Now I really need to get the laser cutter going...
03:57 PM fragalot: pink_vampire: I see.
03:58 PM pink_vampire: i cut the square and then clamp it and cut the other side
03:59 PM gloops: i wouldnt mind a laser, im always a bit wary about having firesome stuff around the house though
03:59 PM pink_vampire: i want laser too
03:59 PM pink_vampire: and water jet
04:00 PM gloops: i only want one for wood burning
04:00 PM pink_vampire: 2.5w china made one?
04:00 PM XXCoder: pink_vampire: OpenBuilds ACRO System maybe its 160 bucks or so lol though its unsafe as heck, use googles whole time it is plugged in.
04:00 PM gloops: pink - not fast enough
04:01 PM Todd_Z: I've never had any Linuxcnc failures that caused a ruined part. the logest g-code file I've ran, took about 6 hours.
04:01 PM fragalot: I made a 3W RGB laser scanner projector about 7 years ago
04:01 PM pink_vampire: mmmm lets see, what i need more eyes vs laser
04:01 PM fragalot: burned a hole in my wallpaper
04:02 PM gloops: you can make a wood burner with a cd laser
04:02 PM gloops: for 30mm squares
04:02 PM pink_vampire: 2.5W is much much more then the 0.2W in the cd
04:03 PM gloops: what is your laser Crom_?
04:03 PM gloops: pink you want a k60 at least
04:04 PM pink_vampire: k60?
04:04 PM * roycroft needs a 1.21 gigawatt laser
04:04 PM roycroft: and that's "gigawatt" with a "j"
04:04 PM fragalot: https://imgur.com/a/lvvEi
04:05 PM fragalot: ^ my laser build.. let me project images up to 2km away
04:05 PM roycroft: it appears that all i need are 8,066,666,670 spinning hampster wheels to generate that kind of power
04:06 PM roycroft: it's a good thing hamsters are prolific breeders
04:06 PM XXCoder: fragalot: it draws the image or is it hologram tpe?
04:06 PM fragalot: XXCoder: draws the image
04:06 PM XXCoder: cool
04:06 PM pink_vampire: i'm sure the FAA is proud of you
04:06 PM XXCoder: I recall that there is special motors that can be really fast
04:06 PM gloops: im surprised lasers havent been regulated against for the public
04:06 PM XXCoder: you use it?
04:06 PM roycroft: don't put your eye out with that thing!
04:06 PM fragalot: no FAA here - and it was used in a professional setting.
04:06 PM gloops: people are making laser shotguns
04:06 PM XXCoder: it is in usa. cant buy more than 5 mA
04:07 PM XXCoder: legal to own tho
04:09 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder: what about 100W laser cutter?
04:09 PM fragalot: that's not in the visible spectrum (for long)
04:09 PM XXCoder: talking about laser pointers, dunno if there is any for cutters and such
04:09 PM fragalot: XXCoder: isn't the regulation about "portable" lasers?
04:10 PM XXCoder: which is why many china ones list em as under 5 mW but really it can be much more. careful with em
04:10 PM gloops: diy laser light sabre! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c__TcJAge6Y
04:11 PM Louis_Cypher: Going to bed now. Have fun guys
04:11 PM fragalot: gloops: interesting how the camera makes it look so much more awesome than it is, isn't it
04:11 PM pink_vampire: gloops: why??
04:11 PM fragalot: in real life you can barely see that beam
04:12 PM pink_vampire: i think he use beam expander
04:12 PM fragalot: he doesn't
04:12 PM pink_vampire: smoke?
04:12 PM fragalot: light smoke is all you need, and the camera's sensor will do the rest
04:13 PM fragalot: camera sensors are much more sensitive than our eyes for that spectrum
04:13 PM XXCoder: one comment: "that is actually more dangerous than lightsaber, just hit em in eyes and done"
04:13 PM roycroft: do any of you folks make 3d printed parts out of abs for sale?
04:13 PM fragalot: roycroft: not for sale, but made plenty of ABS & PLA parts that serve real world use
04:13 PM * roycroft cannot find a fitting that he needs, and thinks he may have to design it and have it made
04:14 PM fragalot: what fitting
04:14 PM roycroft: there are places i can send a cad file to who will be able to make it, no?
04:14 PM fragalot: Yes.
04:14 PM roycroft: i need a 45 degree elbow with a bulkhead flange for a 2-1/2" dust collector system
04:15 PM roycroft: so i should do some measuring and make a drawing tonight
04:15 PM gloops: lol
04:15 PM gloops: @ earlier comment
04:23 PM pink_vampire: good night
04:23 PM fragalot: gnite
04:23 PM fragalot: roycroft: just bear in mind design constraints for the print process you're going to use
04:23 PM gloops: goodnight
04:31 PM roycroft: i'm not sure what those are
04:31 PM roycroft: but it's a fairly simple part
04:32 PM roycroft: think of a 45 degree elbow, with both ends extended linearally, and slightly tapered
04:32 PM roycroft: and a mounting flange in the middle of one of the ends
04:32 PM roycroft: i suppose it needs a good base to sit on, and that could be an issue
04:32 PM roycroft: but that could be added, and cut off later
04:33 PM roycroft: i have never done any 3d printing
04:33 PM roycroft: i was about to take a 90 degree elbow, cut it up, and glue pieces on the ends
04:33 PM roycroft: but yuck
04:36 PM pink_vampire: with pvc is easy
04:36 PM roycroft: the rest of the fittings are abs
04:37 PM roycroft: and i don't know about gluing abs to pvc
04:37 PM roycroft: i know about gluing pvc to pvc and gluing abs to abs
04:38 PM pink_vampire: what about hot sand bending?
04:38 PM pink_vampire: https://media.pvcfittingsonline.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/650x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/4/5/45-ell-005.jpg
04:38 PM gloops: tommorrow i will try to end this pulley hell
04:39 PM roycroft: i need to attach a flange to it as well
04:39 PM fragalot: roycroft: the only thing that FDM printers do not like much is overhangs
04:39 PM fragalot: so if you design it such that there are no overhangs hanging past 45° your part will be much cheaper
04:39 PM pink_vampire: abs sheet, hole, acetone , done
04:39 PM fragalot: pink_vampire's solution will be cheaper if you don't have your own printer
04:39 PM fragalot: also - i'm off :) bye
04:40 PM roycroft: yes, i could fabricate something
04:40 PM roycroft: and i don't know about pricing for 3d printing
04:40 PM pink_vampire: where are you located?
04:40 PM roycroft: i'll draw the thing and then folks can give me better ideas
04:40 PM roycroft: oregon
04:41 PM pink_vampire: let me see
04:41 PM roycroft: but that should not matter
04:41 PM roycroft: shipping can't cost more than $5 for this
04:41 PM roycroft: i wonder if the local maker space has the ability to 3d print abs
04:41 PM roycroft: hmm
04:41 PM pink_vampire: i have better idea
04:41 PM roycroft: i've been meaning to check it out
04:41 PM roycroft: the maker space, that is
04:41 PM pink_vampire: https://hackaday.io/hackerspaces
04:42 PM roycroft: this might be my motivation
04:42 PM roycroft: it's not far from my house
04:42 PM pink_vampire: probably you will get it free
04:43 PM roycroft: their website sucks
04:43 PM roycroft: but it says they have an "open hacker night" on tuesdays
04:43 PM roycroft: where anyone can stop by and check the place out
04:44 PM pink_vampire: make a 3d file, of if you want do some simple drawing on a paper and I will make you a 3d file
04:44 PM roycroft: oh, but my arch enemy runs the place
04:44 PM roycroft: i can make a 3d file
04:44 PM roycroft: the guy who started the local freenet where i used to work now runs the maker space
04:44 PM roycroft: he and i do not get along AT ALL
04:45 PM roycroft: i was one of the cabal of naughty sysadmins who forced him out of the freenet
04:45 PM roycroft: or so he believes
04:45 PM roycroft: so i may not be welcome at that maker space
04:46 PM roycroft: so now to find the nearest but one maker space
04:46 PM roycroft: and it's far away
04:46 PM roycroft: oh well, i can show up at the local one
04:47 PM roycroft: the worst that can happen is i'll be thrown out :)
04:50 PM pink_vampire: mmm
04:54 PM gloops: these makers spaces should exist in the UK
04:55 PM gloops: i might look into it, maybe they already do ive never heard of one though
04:55 PM pink_vampire: gloops: why you need one?
04:55 PM gloops: no not really, theyre a good thing though
04:57 PM gloops: i support these community/collective local kind of things
05:00 PM gloops: thing is round here, there are people, mainly retired men, who try to start things for the underprivileged youth and so on
05:00 PM gloops: but its always sport, football mainly (soccer)
05:02 PM pink_vampire: it a common problem
05:04 PM gloops: i bet a lot of these young scoundrels would respond to a makers environment, with real tools and machines
05:07 PM gloops: Royce (of Rolls Royce) came from a background of severe poverty
05:11 PM gloops: oh we do have them - https://www.nesta.org.uk/uk-makerspaces-data
05:12 PM pink_vampire: cool!
05:12 PM pink_vampire: now you don't need a cnc
05:12 PM pink_vampire: do you know electronics?
05:13 PM gloops: not at all
05:13 PM pink_vampire: arduino?
05:13 PM gloops: nope
05:14 PM pink_vampire: i have a multimeter here that i want to modify
05:14 PM gloops: for what reason?
05:14 PM pink_vampire: multimeter to serial
05:15 PM gloops: how long does it take to learn electronics?
05:15 PM gloops: like self teaching on web tutorials etc
05:18 PM gloops: anyway adios
05:20 PM pink_vampire: i'm still learning
05:54 PM jdh: do you really need the meter?
05:54 PM pfred1: I really need dxg2gcode to work
05:54 PM pfred1: dxf2gcode even
05:55 PM pfred1: I need a bigger pissmeoffometer here too
05:56 PM skunkworks: pfred1, I think there is a deb on linuxcnc
05:56 PM skunkworks: let me find it
05:56 PM skunkworks: I had a heck of a time getting it to work (finding all the dependencies,.)
05:56 PM pfred1: skunkworks will it take the shiny mew version that i just installed out?
05:56 PM pfred1: yeah i had no problem with all of that it runs
05:56 PM skunkworks: I don't know
05:56 PM pfred1: what it doesn't do is honor the in setting
05:57 PM skunkworks: oh. Don't know what to say about that
05:57 PM pfred1: it also likes to start up full screen but i guess I can live with that
05:58 PM pfred1: yeah the new version is a bit of a bitch to install
05:58 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/dxf2gcode.png
05:59 PM pfred1: it wasn't exactly 1, 2, 3 over here to get it to run
05:59 PM pfred1: but if you really want to run it I can help yo uout
06:00 PM pfred1: not that I'd advise you to
06:00 PM pfred1: sh*t be broke
06:01 PM pfred1: I can't believe I'm the only person that's tried to use it with customary units in the past 5 months
06:02 PM pfred1: maybe I'm the only person that's gotten it to run though?
06:09 PM skunkworks: I got it to run - and integrated into axis as an input filter
06:09 PM skunkworks: but it was a pain
06:10 PM skunkworks: what sucks for me is my dxf files are unitless - so they come in as metric
06:10 PM pfred1: some buggy software is not going to make me switch units
06:10 PM skunkworks: I have to edit and add the units section to the dxf's I use
06:11 PM skunkworks: but it is nicer than ace converter ;)
06:11 PM pfred1: I guess i could hand edit the ngc files that dxf2gcode outputs
06:11 PM pfred1: change G21 to G20
06:11 PM pfred1: but that's horsepucky
06:12 PM pfred1: you got a menu that claims to offer a feature then it should work
06:12 PM pfred1: thoug hthere is also a labeling issue in another configure item too
06:13 PM pfred1: in the axis speed they have "IPS" When it is really "IPM"
06:13 PM pfred1: obviously the devs of the code don't use customary units
06:13 PM skunkworks: right
06:14 PM pfred1: there i can just fudge in the numbers
06:15 PM pfred1: but this completely ignoring the units thing has got me
06:16 PM pfred1: maybe I did do some preprocessing prepend when I set the old version up?
06:16 PM pfred1: but if I did I don't remember it
06:17 PM pfred1: the reason I like dxf2gcode is it does scaling really good, or at least it used to
06:17 PM pfred1: now I can only say it handles scaling really bad
06:17 PM skunkworks: also cutter comp lead-ins that would work for plasma too
06:18 PM pfred1: I'm kinda frazzled lately setting this whole system up
06:18 PM pfred1: everything has been a battle
06:18 PM pfred1: I hate installing systems
06:20 PM pfred1: even this new irssi is wacky
06:20 PM pfred1: it doesn't take my old login command
06:21 PM pfred1: I've yet to figure out the syntax on that
06:34 PM roycroft: i think i found some parts that will work for my dust collection setup
06:35 PM roycroft: 2" abs drain/vent pipe is just about the right size
06:35 PM roycroft: a little work with a rasp and some big globs of glue and i should be fine
06:37 PM roycroft: the good thing about this project is that it will all be hidden
06:37 PM Chris_Morley: IchGucksLive: What could I do for you?
06:39 PM Cromaglious__: ARGH#($#*&_(^_)(#^$%&@^$_(%#$% damn inet routers
06:40 PM pfred1: Cromaglious__ damn computers!
06:44 PM HighInBC: they can hear you!
06:50 PM pfred1: this PC owes me big time
06:51 PM * roycroft notes that peecees are more in the habit of taking from people than giving to them
06:52 PM roycroft: they only "give" to the botnets that control them
07:13 PM pink_vampire: pfred1: hi
07:13 PM pfred1: hi
07:13 PM pink_vampire: long time
07:16 PM pfred1: yeah I been busy lately
07:16 PM pink_vampire: did you finish your cnc?
07:16 PM pfred1: oh yeah a long time ago
07:18 PM pink_vampire: i was off of here for long time
07:18 PM pfred1: oh yeah?
07:18 PM pink_vampire: yes
07:19 PM pink_vampire: i just finished today the painting on the tool setter
07:23 PM pfred1: pink_vampire what's that?
07:23 PM pink_vampire: the thing that zero the Z axis by the length of the tool
07:24 PM pfred1: oh a touch off plate?
07:24 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/d2WmKCp.jpg
07:24 PM pink_vampire: no
07:25 PM pfred1: pink_vampire it looks nice
07:25 PM pink_vampire: like that one > https://i.imgur.com/DadGuGN.png
07:26 PM pfred1: ah a probe
07:26 PM pink_vampire: it's like a touch plate but better
07:46 PM jdh: you painted it?
07:51 PM pfred1: it didn't paint itself
08:01 PM Jymmm: pfred1: This IS CNC, it could have painted itself =)
08:02 PM jdh: looks good. You need a home anodizing line.
08:14 PM pink_vampire: jdh: it's a powder coat
08:15 PM jdh: cool
08:15 PM pink_vampire: i also did anodize
09:04 PM pink_vampire: finally i made machinist soldering station
09:07 PM Rab: pink_vampire, pics
09:08 PM pfred1: what is a machinist soldering station?
09:12 PM pink_vampire: ok ok
09:13 PM pink_vampire: one sec
09:13 PM pink_vampire: i'm taking
09:17 PM roycroft: it's a soldering station that has a sign that says "MACHINISTS ONLY!"
09:17 PM roycroft: it sits next to the one that says "NON-MACHINISTS"
09:18 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/ZEuhTWr.jpg
09:18 PM pink_vampire: here it is
09:19 PM pink_vampire: Rab: roycroft pfred1
09:19 PM roycroft: oh, you took the useless part off of a chinse vise and turned it into a lamp with a soldering iron holder
09:20 PM pink_vampire: correct
09:20 PM pink_vampire: it's a lamp base with T slot
09:21 PM Rab: That's a good use for that thing.
09:21 PM pink_vampire: LOLL
09:22 PM pink_vampire: only a true machinist will appreciate it
09:22 PM pfred1: pink_vampire that's a good use for a swivel vise base
09:22 PM roycroft: i'm not a "true machinist"
09:22 PM roycroft: i still consider myself a dabbler
09:23 PM roycroft: but i appreciate it
09:23 PM Rab: I spent weeks trolling eBay for just the right vise with swivel base included. But I have never used the rotating feature. I'm about to remove it from the vise.
09:23 PM pink_vampire: ok ok but you are in a good family
09:23 PM roycroft: well
09:23 PM roycroft: i have a chinese vise
09:23 PM roycroft: and i know what part of it i have removed
09:23 PM pink_vampire: Rab: it will get you more Z axis
09:24 PM Rab: pink_vampire, indeed.
09:24 PM pink_vampire: get a sine plate instead
09:24 PM pink_vampire: much better
09:25 PM Rab: I got a rotary table instead. But I haven't used that either.
09:26 PM pink_vampire: I have few tools that I almost never use
09:27 PM pink_vampire: XYZ micro positioning stage, sine plate and the swivel base
09:27 PM pfred1: I got lots of tools I don't use much
09:28 PM roycroft: i often buy tooling and hardware for which i don't have an immediate need, but i can get for a really good price
09:28 PM pfred1: roycroft that's OK if you have the room for it
09:28 PM roycroft: i think that over the years i've come out well ahead with that strategy, even though i have some things that i have never used
09:29 PM roycroft: space is becoming very precious to me now
09:29 PM pfred1: yes
09:29 PM roycroft: so i actually do stop and think before making such purchases these days
09:29 PM pfred1: I'm still kicking myself for not picking up a band saw once but I couldn't think of where I'd put it
09:29 PM pfred1: $50 though
09:30 PM roycroft: under a tarp in the front yard?
09:30 PM roycroft: right below the sign that says "redneck lives here" :P
09:30 PM pfred1: might as well set it on fire
09:30 PM pfred1: where i love stuff gets tore up left outside
09:30 PM pfred1: live even
09:30 PM pfred1: s/love/live/g;
09:31 PM pfred1: it ain't easy to keep stuff nice here even with a roof over it
09:31 PM pfred1: salt in the air
11:04 PM Crom: cnc computer finally came up...