#linuxcnc Logs
Jan 30 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:57 AM Deejay: moin
02:31 AM gloops: washing machine question - blue arcing light/bush from motor - reckon its the carbon brush worn?
02:31 AM gloops: blue light/ BUZZ
02:31 AM jesseg: gloops, hmm.
02:31 AM archivist: or armature failed
02:31 AM jesseg: what country are you in?
02:31 AM jesseg: I've never seen a brushed motor in a washingmachine in USA
02:32 AM gloops: its still working, spinning at 1200 rpm
02:32 AM gloops: UK
02:32 AM jesseg: but I suppose they could do it someplace
02:32 AM jesseg: still UK sounds too civilized
02:32 AM archivist: gloops I have a tame supplier
02:32 AM gloops: it failed to spin a few times, i cleaned filter, noticed buzzing then saw light in motor casing, it is a brushed motor i think
02:32 AM jesseg: gloops, but a blue arcing does sound like you're describing a brush type motor
02:33 AM jesseg: must be a brushed motor lol
02:33 AM jesseg: normally they use induction motors
02:33 AM archivist: they often have two motors
02:34 AM gloops: i might try getting the motor off and have a look, its got some special hex screws by the look of it
02:34 AM archivist: brushed drum motor means old!
02:34 AM gloops: the pump is fine ive looked at that, its not an old washer, well a few years
02:34 AM gloops: only a cheap one but it still looks and works like new apart from that
02:36 AM archivist: I often visit http://www.ashbyonline.co.uk/main.php?businessID=1
02:36 AM Contract_Pilot: No work done today on the lathe..
02:36 AM gloops: i can shove any bit of carbon in
02:36 AM Contract_Pilot: have some minor tweeks to do with the VFD it shoud be good.
02:37 AM gloops: ive pulled 2 wires out of my vfd moving it lol, i meant to take photos before i moved it so i couldnt lose the wiring
02:37 AM archivist: gloops buggered armature usually runs a bit slow and smells
02:38 AM Contract_Pilot: So the only thing on this BOB not tested is the tool turret port.
02:38 AM gloops: archivist it isnt slow, it just doesnt move at all sometimes, its just spun now full speed
02:38 AM Contract_Pilot: I may order a tool turret board just to test it.
02:38 AM Contract_Pilot: but then i wil want a turret hahaha
02:38 AM gloops: thinking of it, that is the symptoms of worn brushes
02:39 AM Contract_Pilot: Sparks and Lots of Noise
02:39 AM gloops: yes
02:39 AM gloops: its only side sparking
02:39 AM gloops: one
02:39 AM archivist: sometimes stuck in the brush slide
02:40 AM gloops: it only spun after id turned the drum hand a few times - might have got some kind of contact to get moving
02:40 AM gloops: could be yeah, ill have a look if i can get the motor off later, if the motor was dead id scrap it, but if its only a brush i might have a go
02:41 AM Contract_Pilot: brushes are dirt cheap replacement stator is not.
02:41 AM Contract_Pilot: Bearings prob shot also.
02:41 AM gloops: i dont even know what a stator is
02:42 AM gloops: its only an electrical buzz coming from it, no bearing noise
02:42 AM archivist: stator is outer coils
02:42 AM gloops: would that cause sparking?
02:42 AM Contract_Pilot: Yep,
02:43 AM gloops: hmm, well worth half an hour to get it off and find out
02:43 AM archivist: make sure commutator is clean/ok when you replace the brushes
02:43 AM Loetmichel: gloops: stator is the part of an electric motor that doesent move. its "static" ;)
02:43 AM gloops: right
02:44 AM Loetmichel: (i.E: the winding and iron core around the rotor in an AC motor)
02:44 AM Contract_Pilot: yea, but bad bearings ca cause them symptoms also.
02:44 AM gloops: yeah, ive not noticed any bearing noise, and it is only one side of the motor sparking
02:45 AM Loetmichel: if the brushes are THAT worn that the motor stops you may have another proble,
02:45 AM Loetmichel: m
02:45 AM gloops: worn brush would also mean loss of power though, seems to be spinning like normal
02:45 AM Loetmichel: can you make a picture of the commutator?
02:45 AM gloops: whats that?
02:45 AM Loetmichel: (the thing the brushes run on)
02:46 AM Contract_Pilot: Where he brush rubs ginst the armature
02:46 AM gloops: well i will when i get it off
02:46 AM MarcelineVQ: does it have brushes?
02:46 AM gloops: i can just rub that up with some wet and dry?
02:46 AM gloops: i think it does yes
02:46 AM archivist: may need to clean between the segments
02:46 AM gloops: may as well wait till i get the motor off and know more
02:47 AM Loetmichel: i ask because worn brushes are known to wear grooves into the copper fins on the commutator, causing the new brushes to die fast, too
02:47 AM archivist: if a segment has moved or looks different, sign of armature failure
02:47 AM Loetmichel: may be needed to remove the armature/rotor, place it in a lathe and turn the commutator fins to a smooth surface again
02:47 AM gloops: armature is the bit that rotates then i take it
02:48 AM archivist: yes
02:48 AM Contract_Pilot: I hate electrical motor work hahaha...
02:48 AM Contract_Pilot: Still have a bunch of SKF bearing for motors
02:49 AM gloops: its same syptoms on a grinder, ive just had one die - buzz, sparks, wont start - brushes gone
02:49 AM Contract_Pilot: 6000-2RS1/C3HT
02:56 AM gloops: not much to do on my project, but got other stuff to do for a couple of days as well, so will be a drawn out start up
02:57 AM gloops: well, not much to do before trying it - probably loads to do when i have haha
03:14 AM Contract_Pilot: Glopps, i use the launromat but i have 500 shop rags hahaha
03:15 AM Contract_Pilot: Takes 2 load in a tripple loader
04:03 AM pink_vampire: hi
04:03 AM jthornton: morning
04:04 AM pink_vampire: early morning
04:05 AM jthornton: watching the chickens wake up
04:05 AM pink_vampire: i'm trying to find a design for mist nozzle
04:27 AM jthornton: I'm trying to find a decent web host
04:41 AM XXCoder: heys
05:08 AM pink_vampire: jthornton: what kind of website?
05:08 AM jthornton: web host not website
05:09 AM pink_vampire: i know
05:09 AM jthornton: I use webhost4life now but they are screwing me with the ssl cert
05:09 AM XXCoder: in wjat way? expired or?
05:10 AM pink_vampire: you have a store?
05:10 AM jthornton: I have two stores yes
05:10 AM XXCoder: he does. mesa
05:10 AM XXCoder: oh and other one dunno on that one lol
05:10 AM jthornton: yes it expired on the 25th but I paid for an inflated renewal on the 10th
05:10 AM jthornton: spyderstore.com
05:21 AM Deejay: re
05:22 AM XXCoder: geez
05:22 AM XXCoder: no idea on what is good though
05:22 AM TurBoss: hello
05:23 AM TurBoss: SUP XXCoder?
05:23 AM XXCoder: not much. work was boring and fast
05:25 AM TurBoss: bored too
05:33 AM TurBoss: Hi gloops
05:33 AM gloops: hi
05:34 AM gloops: someone was asking about mpg yesterday, not got the log though
05:34 AM XXCoder: hey
05:34 AM XXCoder: !log
05:35 AM XXCoder: &log
05:35 AM XXCoder: oh well
05:35 AM XXCoder: tur I saw cool tach display for spindle rpm
05:35 AM XXCoder: looked cool
05:36 AM XXCoder: http://www.instructables.com/id/Add-an-Arduino-based-Optical-Tachometer-to-a-CNC-R/
05:37 AM XXCoder: uhh in chromeium page randomly changes positions
05:40 AM Tom_itx: 26°F
05:40 AM Tom_itx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6n2ZgY-5Ls
05:41 AM jthornton: 20°F
05:41 AM XXCoder: drill drill drillll
05:41 AM XXCoder: great to see it making chips!
05:42 AM jthornton: just using air?
05:42 AM Tom_itx: i had oil going to it too
05:42 AM Tom_itx: a little
05:43 AM jthornton: is that an encoder on the left?
05:48 AM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
05:48 AM Tom_L: yes
05:48 AM jthornton: cool
05:48 AM Tom_L: off some medical equipment focus ring
05:48 AM pink_vampire: Tom_itx: t t slots are better
05:48 AM Tom_L: says you
05:48 AM Tom_L: needs just a little more tweaking
05:48 AM Tom_L: and a bigger spindle motor
05:49 AM gloops: it moves which is better than mine heh
05:50 AM gloops: speaking of which, can have a couple of hours on it now
07:02 AM pink_vampire: what do you think about my design for mist nozzle? https://i.imgur.com/r03Si3j.jpg
07:04 AM pink_vampire: the top is put is air, the bottom is pressurized liquid
07:04 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: ^
07:04 AM pink_vampire: gloops: ?
07:12 AM gregcnc_: make/test/redesign?
07:12 AM pink_vampire: it is just a 3d model right now
07:35 AM gregcnc_: it's maybe 5 cents of aluminum and some time
07:39 AM pink_vampire: do you think i design it right?
07:40 AM gregcnc_: i don't know those don't need venturi to feed the fluid so probably anything works.
07:41 AM gregcnc_: i've never looked inside, there are several designs online
07:54 AM gregcnc_: I finally found a Haas Minimill in my price range https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Haas-CNC-VMC/09171820002/
07:56 AM pink_vampire: what happen to it?
07:56 AM pink_vampire: Weight (lb) 2800
07:57 AM pink_vampire: even brand new and free i cant do anything with it
08:00 AM archivist: strange staining on it
08:01 AM gregcnc_: pink https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Dyna-Myte-CNC-Vertical-Mill/10170940023/
08:06 AM archivist: gregcnc_, needs some restoration :)
08:07 AM gregcnc_: rare to find something from hgr that runs
08:07 AM archivist: a bit odd that the control looks so clean compared to the bed
08:16 AM gloops: the last tiny allen key finally disappeared into the ether
08:17 AM archivist: they reappear on a blue moon
08:17 AM gregcnc_: he's in luck
08:17 AM gloops: ill find loads when i tidy up
08:18 AM archivist: only has to wait for a day
08:19 AM gloops: is that the same mill down to 2999?
08:20 AM gregcnc_: it's a small dyna myte
08:21 AM gloops: well im about ready to start shifting computer into garage, need to install wifi usb from cd...thats a mystery to me on debian
08:23 AM gloops: stuff it ill just have laptop at side for internet for now
10:40 AM MacGalempsy: good morning folks
10:40 AM gloops: howdy
10:50 AM jesseg: Good Morning
11:56 AM Tom_L: gawd i love this town. stopped by my local rubber & belt supply to find out they'd moved so i tracked them down and asked about some rubber to cover my ways
11:56 AM fragalot: Tom_L: has JT-Shop confirmed your employment there?
11:56 AM Tom_L: he took me back in the warehouse and found a piece all wrapped up and marked and said here have a good day
11:57 AM fragalot: nice
11:57 AM Tom_L: those sprayers work ok but i think my oil was a bit thick for it
11:57 AM fragalot: the chinese mister?
11:58 AM Tom_L: yeah
11:58 AM fragalot: more air. :P
11:58 AM Tom_L: yeah it worked
11:58 AM Wolf__: not using soluble oil?
11:59 AM Tom_L: i'm not sure what it was really, it was in a can i've had for years
11:59 AM Tom_L: fragalot seen the last video post of it drilling the table?
11:59 AM fragalot: no!
12:00 PM JT-Shop: nice
12:00 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6n2ZgY-5Ls
12:00 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, it was over my the old MPM shop
12:00 PM Tom_L: really kinda hard to find now
12:00 PM Tom_L: by*
12:00 PM fragalot: that's a nice & quiet spindle
12:01 PM Connor: Okay.. Just got my power feed in for my bridgeport.. I told them I wanted it 220v. It has a 110v plug on it.. but a label says it's 220 and the unit says 220. Why on earth does it have a 120v plug? Is it 110/220
12:02 PM fragalot: Tom_L: does that encoder on your spindle allow for rigid tapping?
12:03 PM fragalot: Connor: standardisation? ;.
12:03 PM fragalot: :/
12:03 PM IchGucksLive: hi
12:03 PM fragalot: hey
12:05 PM gloops: well my washing machine does have carbon bushes, and one is shot - ÂŁ7 fix, thatsll do me
12:06 PM fragalot: gloops: now to hope you haven't ruined the seals when replacing it :)
12:06 PM Tom_L: fragalot, yes
12:07 PM fragalot: Tom_L: Cool.
12:07 PM Tom_L: the spindle motor isn't big enough for it though
12:07 PM fragalot: what are you using to drive it
12:07 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g99lUtjLfMU&t=1s
12:08 PM Tom_L: that was when it was still on the sherline
12:10 PM Connor: fragalot: No clue.
12:10 PM Connor: I wonder how it'll work on 120.. Not that I'm going to run it on that..
12:11 PM gloops: the seals?
12:11 PM gloops: ive changed plenty of bushes in my time never seen any seals
12:11 PM fragalot: gloops: or did you not need to take the drum out to get to the motor
12:11 PM fragalot: k
12:11 PM phaxx: interesting machine in that video, I hadn't seen a spindle counterweight before.
12:11 PM gloops: ahh no ragged it out the back
12:11 PM Tom_L: phaxx alot of the commercial machines use counterweights
12:11 PM Tom_L: very common
12:11 PM phaxx: I'm having a problem with my machine where the Z axis drops a little when the stepper power is turned off after a movement, and I wonder if a counterweight would help with that.
12:11 PM phaxx: cool!
12:12 PM Tom_L: it won't hurt it for sure
12:12 PM fragalot: phaxx: either a counterweight or an air cylinder can help there
12:12 PM fragalot: counterweight is cheaper :P
12:12 PM phaxx: yeah, the head is really heavy, I almost feel sorry for the ball screw involved.
12:13 PM gloops: phaxx some use a leadscrew to avoid that
12:13 PM gloops: leadscrew is self locking, ballscrew isnt
12:13 PM fragalot: leadscrew has its' own issues
12:13 PM phaxx: so I'm reading.
12:14 PM phaxx: until it breaks I doubt I'll replace any of the motion hardware.
12:14 PM Tom_L: i don't think i'll need the counterweight on my new mill
12:14 PM fragalot: That's the spirit :P
12:14 PM Tom_L: well go meddle with it until something breaks :)
12:14 PM phaxx: for a $0 mill to learn on, yeah. :)
12:14 PM gloops: i might end up using smaller pitch leadscrew, i dont like the weight on the z for my motor to pull and hold
12:15 PM gloops: with 5mm pitch ballscrew
12:15 PM gloops: ok for wood, the backlash wouldnt materialise much
12:17 PM IchGucksLive: Tom_L: how woudt you add a counterwaight by rope
12:17 PM IchGucksLive: chain
12:18 PM fragalot: helium
12:19 PM gloops: ill make a model of a man to stand on top hold a dumbell in each arm
12:19 PM Tom_L: i used cheap pulleys on the sherline
12:19 PM gloops: his arms will drop to pull the z up
12:19 PM Tom_L: nylon fishing string actually
12:20 PM Tom_L: the one on my bud's big tree is hidden inside the column with chains attached
12:21 PM Tom_L: i was gonna do that until i mounted the Z motor where i did
12:21 PM gloops: the old sliding sash windows here used to have counterweights on pulleys, weight went up and down in a box, had loads of them mechanisms over the years doubt ive got any now
12:22 PM Tom_L: mine did too
12:22 PM Tom_L: i could probably still find one or two if i opened up the walls
12:22 PM gloops: suppose a round weight going up and down in a tube is tidier
12:23 PM Wolf__: I think I have a few sash weights somewhere
12:23 PM Tom_L: those of you commenting about baffling on my column, i haven't noticed any unusual noise from it yet
12:23 PM Wolf__: but I like the gas springs hidden in the column for counterweight
12:24 PM Tom_L: so a trash can it has become :D
12:25 PM fragalot: good gas springs aren't cheap though
12:26 PM Tom_L: take some off your neighbor's hatchback
12:26 PM Wolf__: go to a auto scrap yard, lots of cheap good ones
12:28 PM miss0r: that or you could add a real counter weight. I guess theres a reason surface grinders use counter weights and not gas cylinders
12:28 PM fragalot: right, just ordered me a class 0 straight edge as I need to sort out my table saw cutting curves before I move forward with this build >.<
12:29 PM Wolf__: but the 40lb 7.87” stroke were $17.26 each from mcmaster so not too much $$$
12:29 PM Tom_L: fragalot, don't let the postman bend it
12:29 PM fragalot: Tom_L: if it doesn't come in a mahogany box i'm not accepting it
12:29 PM fragalot: :P
12:29 PM miss0r: Tom_L: hehe it will chip before it breaks, if he bought a proper one, that is
12:29 PM miss0r: chip before it bends, that is
12:30 PM Tom_L: fragalot, you mean a plastic mahogany colored box.... this _is_ 2018 afterall
12:30 PM fragalot: Tom_L: no. a green felt lined mahogany box
12:30 PM Tom_L: i know what you mean
12:30 PM miss0r: MORE DEAD TREE CARCASSES !
12:31 PM Tom_L: my old kennedy box was like that
12:31 PM fragalot: with a machinists' fit for the 1000mm straight edge
12:31 PM fragalot: where you have to turn it upside down & shake to get the thing to release the vacuum
12:31 PM Tom_L: ok, lunch is over... back to the coal mine
12:31 PM miss0r: hmm... Then the wood needs to be very well oiled up, so it does not move & bend :)
12:32 PM fragalot: you can't stop wood from moving
12:32 PM * miss0r payed the 10eur extra for the shipment of the servo - It will get here tomorrow
12:32 PM fragalot: lol
12:33 PM miss0r: I'm not a patient man
12:33 PM miss0r: lol. almost the price of the servo :D
12:33 PM Wolf__: easy to make wood stop moving
12:33 PM Wolf__: burn it to melt metal
12:34 PM miss0r: I was hoping for something intelligible... Jokes on me
12:38 PM miss0r: Thursday I have an interresting job. I have to go install some linear scales on a somewhat big horisontal mill.
12:39 PM miss0r: 'somewhat big' translates to 4,6 meters tall
12:39 PM miss0r: ... 4,6m Y travel(vertical)
12:39 PM IchGucksLive: im off
12:40 PM fragalot: miss0r: should be pretty easy then :D
12:40 PM miss0r: Yeah.. I'm a bit unnerved honnestly
12:40 PM miss0r: Thoes glass scales does not come cheap
12:40 PM fragalot: i can imagine
12:41 PM gloops: gas strut - those stepper type exercise machines, people are always throwing them away
12:41 PM gloops: the better ones are adjustable shockers
12:42 PM miss0r: I'm reading up on it now - I have to figure out how exactly to mount it. as far as I know the mill is not in a temperature controlled room. Or atleast the temperature fluctuates alot
12:42 PM miss0r: I need to get smart in a hurry about how to handle that
12:43 PM miss0r: (I'm worried about how the old iron moves in conparison to the linear scale)
12:43 PM miss0r: If I need to compensate for that, by having one end of the scale floating on a linear guide or something like that :S
12:43 PM fragalot: miss0r: could you fix 1 end rigidly, and semi-rigidly float the other end?
12:44 PM miss0r: ;)
12:44 PM fragalot: how flat are the surfaces?
12:44 PM fragalot: old iron likes them curves
12:44 PM miss0r: I will know thursday
12:45 PM fragalot: can the scale manufacturer not tell you how to mount the long ones properly?
12:45 PM miss0r: I will most likely need a few sets of thoes concave washers
12:45 PM miss0r: I suppose. I did not buy them. I was just called and asked if I could install them. They bought a set of used ones
12:46 PM miss0r: And i'll bet you, the manufacture will just tell you that you need a temperature regulated room to use them properly
12:53 PM miss0r: I need to get going. See you around
12:53 PM fragalot: I think my tv took a wrong turn somewhere
12:53 PM fragalot: everything's generating popups saying the service has stopped working
12:53 PM fragalot: non-stop
01:09 PM gloops: well i wish cnc machines were as easy as washing machines
01:14 PM jesseg: lol does that mean you fixed your washing machine there, gloops ?
01:15 PM gloops: jesseg got the motor off, and the bushes, one had dull surface, i worked it a bit and got it to drop a few mm - re-assembled running like a dream
01:16 PM gloops: ordered 2 new bushes, cheap fix
01:16 PM jesseg: excellent!
01:17 PM gloops: mrs said last night - we need a new one, ill go halves with you, heh saved myself a few quid
01:17 PM jesseg: lol y up
01:17 PM jesseg: yup
01:21 PM gloops: cant help noticing those large diameter pulleys on the back of washing machine drums, - thinking diy bandsaw
01:27 PM fragalot: https://i.imgur.com/8f0lmQc.jpg
01:48 PM MrHindsight: https://youtu.be/Yxz897aunJ8?t=2m31s not really injection molding, but another slick con
01:50 PM gloops: so a shell filled with cold cure plastic?
01:50 PM MrHindsight: Programmable Tooling, sort of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPdlKm_EH1w
01:51 PM MrHindsight: gloops: in that example
01:52 PM MrHindsight: could be a slurry that you sinter later
01:52 PM Wolf__: chemical cure = epoxy?
01:53 PM MrHindsight: the molds are soluble (water or solvent)
01:53 PM MrHindsight: what goes inside is whatever that is not reactive with the mold materials
01:54 PM Wolf__: cnc part that would have taken a week?
01:54 PM Wolf__: wtf
01:54 PM MrHindsight: not too hot, soluble etc
01:54 PM MrHindsight: yeah hah
01:54 PM MrHindsight: the CEO left school with a record $350K in student debt
01:55 PM Wolf__: lol
01:56 PM Rab: gloops, you mentioned reducing the pitch of your Z from 5mm to reduce load on the motor. Do consider your max desired speed before making modifications. I have a .1" pitch leadscrew (approx half 5mm) and 3.333:1 motor ratio, and Z motion is terribly slow. Fine detail engraving jobs spend half the time just moving vertically.
01:57 PM MrHindsight: http://fortune.com/2015/06/23/mba-student-loan-debt/
01:57 PM MrHindsight: How this MBA racked up an incredible $350,000 in student debt
01:57 PM Rab: Obviously that combination is an extreme case. But the point is that it's nice to be able to move Z pretty quick.
02:07 PM gregcnc_: capt i saw collider the other day and was going to ask if you've seen it
02:08 PM Wolf__: stintered metal in a plastic mold…
02:08 PM MrHindsight: gregcnc_: we sold them the soluble resin and we were going to make some of their parts
02:08 PM Wolf__: explains why the copper gear looked so bad lol
02:09 PM gregcnc_: wow a week to cnc a that steel shift lever?
02:09 PM MrHindsight: but they turned into an outfit we didn't want to deal with
02:09 PM * Wolf__ thinks they need better cnc machines
02:10 PM gregcnc_: who are they selling to that are so uneducated about mfg processes that will spend the kind of moeny they are asking?
02:10 PM MrHindsight: 2+ years and still in development
02:10 PM MrHindsight: gregcnc_: dopes
02:11 PM Wolf__: aka corporate purchasing departments?
02:11 PM MrHindsight: it's supposed to be a one machine does it all ...
02:12 PM MrHindsight: but you can do it better and faster with two separate machines
02:12 PM gloops: Rab yes that is a consideration, but if smaller pitch is necessary to hold the z position, it will have to be
02:12 PM Rab: gloops, sure.
02:12 PM gloops: takes quite some pressure to rotate the 5mm ballscrew, not tried with motor yet
02:12 PM MrHindsight: why have the mold printer sit idle with filling?
02:12 PM gregcnc_: they need room for future improvement
02:14 PM gloops: have got 425oz motor on z, i dunno maybe ok
02:14 PM Wolf__: “Calderon obtained a law degree “to learn how to think,” and an MBA to learn how to run a company, she says.” explains a lot right there… lol
02:14 PM MrHindsight: gregcnc_: we are usually contacted at some point by all the 3D conspeople about supplying them with some nonsense
02:14 PM MrHindsight: they don't like exchanging emails, has to be over the phone
02:15 PM gregcnc_: "I didn't say that"
02:15 PM MrHindsight: always some deal other than buy/pay and ship product
02:15 PM gregcnc_: oh like drop ship?
02:16 PM MrHindsight: will you work for free and then when we buy tons you'll get paid
02:16 PM gregcnc_: put oh even worse
02:16 PM MrHindsight: yeah, partners with them having all the control
02:16 PM MrHindsight: happens 1-2 times a week
02:17 PM MrHindsight: and often using a gmail account for their big project
02:18 PM gregcnc_: everyone trying to be a player in the printing game now
02:20 PM MrHindsight: it was worse 2-3 years ago
02:20 PM MrHindsight: even in here
02:20 PM MrHindsight: spillover from #reprap
02:20 PM Wolf__: people wanting to put 3d print heads on their milling machines...
02:21 PM MrHindsight: batter up http://asimovventures.com/
02:22 PM MrHindsight: seem to be willing to fund things like that
02:22 PM gloops: i looked at making a diy injection machine, its pretty simple
02:22 PM MrHindsight: SLA/DLP/LCD printer with a nozzle for the fill materials
02:22 PM gloops: if youre gonna make one though you want one with some capacity for volume, which is a bit more work
02:23 PM gloops: mill for dies, injection machine, a license to print cash...slowly
02:23 PM gregcnc_: hah they funded this hourly dog hotel https://www.dogparker.com/
02:24 PM MrHindsight: if they made a printer that can make molds that hold up to thermoplastic injection then that would be something
02:25 PM MrHindsight: day rates for dog hotels
02:25 PM gloops: there some types of plastic that work arent there MrHindsight?
02:25 PM MrHindsight: "Free dog inside"
02:25 PM MrHindsight: gloops: with that collider machine or?
02:26 PM gloops: i mean, you can have a plastic mold, for injecting plastic into
02:26 PM MrHindsight: yeah
02:26 PM MrHindsight: tens of shots
02:26 PM gloops: hmm
02:26 PM MrHindsight: depends on size, plastic etc
02:27 PM MrHindsight: here's the idea to steal.... print the mold, then reinforce for durability
02:28 PM gloops: how do you do that?
02:28 PM MrHindsight: the printed part of the mold has the shape then you place that into a material with lots of strength
02:28 PM gloops: ahh right yeah
02:30 PM MrHindsight: printed mold into a vat of something stronger, so the printer part comes in contact with whatever gets injected into it but there's much stronger material on the other side of it for support
02:30 PM MrHindsight: printer/printed
02:31 PM MrHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCOwYaCyG2I put that mold into a cylinder filled with a much tougher epoxy for example
02:31 PM fragalot: kickstarter is at the same time the best, and the worst thing to have happened
02:31 PM gloops: plastic is the future no dount
02:32 PM MrHindsight: like when you have to machine very small parts, you might place them in a casting material to act as a fixture
02:36 PM gloops: i can actually see the point of making those skins now heh
02:37 PM fragalot: what gets me in today's society is not just the scam start-ups, or the inexperienced startups, not even the really bad ones
02:37 PM gloops: you have a lot less volume of printing to do
02:37 PM fragalot: what gets me is how large corporations are also starting to use crowd-funding for their projects
02:37 PM fragalot: rather than having to invest their own money into something like they used to
02:37 PM gloops: printing is the slow part, the bulk of the piece is added quickly by casting, clever
02:37 PM gregcnc_: free money? let me have it
02:37 PM MrHindsight: <bow>
02:37 PM fragalot: gloops: with the continuous DLP process, the size of the skin is not that critical
02:38 PM fragalot: the print rate is /nearly/ the same
02:38 PM fragalot: but the materials are limited
02:38 PM gloops: as injecting?
02:38 PM MrHindsight: fragalot: continuous slows down with very dense parts
02:38 PM MrHindsight: it's really only fast for thin sections
02:38 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: it does, but it's not going to be that much slower than printing the skin & waiting for the filling to cure
02:38 PM fragalot: the point of the hollow, smooth wall prints, is that it allows for more materials
02:39 PM fragalot: the only issue is their approach
02:39 PM gloops: so you can also fill it with cheaper plastic
02:39 PM fragalot: one machine batch prints, with as little downtime as possible
02:39 PM MrHindsight: gloops: yeah, that is the point
02:39 PM gloops: right, im with it now
02:39 PM fragalot: and either another machine, or a person handling them, fills them
02:39 PM MrHindsight: print thin mold, cast thicker walls, then injection mold
02:40 PM MrHindsight: if you need lots of shots say 100's
02:41 PM fragalot: are there casting materials that stand up to injection molding?
02:41 PM gloops: well stuff like blow molding is a 2 part process, its all very quick
02:42 PM MrHindsight: the cost of casting resin vs photopolymer is also significant
02:42 PM gloops: where they first inject the skin, then blow it into a bigger mold
02:42 PM fragalot: gloops: different process all together
02:42 PM fragalot: blow molding and rotomolding are very specific processes
02:42 PM MrHindsight: $$$ for photopolymer, $ for casting resin
02:42 PM gloops: different process, but still a two part process - used to make billions of items
02:43 PM gloops: ive noticed resin prices have dropped considerably here - recently as well
02:43 PM fragalot: good.
02:43 PM fragalot: :D
02:43 PM MrHindsight: what they also don't do with that collider printer is make a 2-part mold
02:43 PM gloops: 20kg was ÂŁ65-80 mark, now ÂŁ40
02:44 PM MrHindsight: they expect you to soak the part after filling and curing to remove the mold
02:44 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: "but why would you want to, 3D printers can print infinite complexities with no restrictions what so ever!" </CEO that read about it in a magazine blurb>
02:44 PM MrHindsight: heh
02:45 PM MrHindsight: fragalot: did you see the neat bridge I have for sale?
02:45 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: no?
02:47 PM MrHindsight: I have a few, some come with a river, tracks or road beneath
02:47 PM fragalot: I'll have the one with the river, I won't pay but you get to use it toll-free when it's made a profit.
02:48 PM fragalot: ;)
02:48 PM gloops: is the river silver?
02:48 PM MrHindsight: do I accept bitcoins?
02:48 PM fragalot: you can have my old deleted wallet
02:48 PM fragalot: :<
02:49 PM MrHindsight: I wonder how many have been lost?
02:49 PM fragalot: at least 5 of mine
02:49 PM gregcnc_: did you see that bankrupt 50 Cent is sitting on millions in bitcoin?
02:49 PM fragalot: back when they were absolutely worthless
02:49 PM MrHindsight: crashed drives, needed space etc
02:49 PM MrHindsight: gregcnc_: the wrapper?
02:50 PM fragalot: gregcnc_: good timing on that
02:50 PM gregcnc_: yeah
02:50 PM MrHindsight: heh, bbl
02:50 PM gregcnc_: i saw a story years ago a mom threw away a kids hdd and he went looking for it at the landfill
02:50 PM fragalot: lol
02:50 PM gloops: a kid i know says he used to play this game online where you could buy things with bitcoin, people would buy your game off you to get to higher levels etc, dont know if its true
02:51 PM gregcnc_: people pay real money to do that
02:51 PM fragalot: ^
02:51 PM fragalot: there used to be a lot of trading going on with WoW accounts
02:51 PM fragalot: even runescape
02:51 PM gloops: he reckons he had some coin, long lost, forgot about the game, doesnt seem to exist anymore
02:52 PM gloops: at the time people just treated it as play money
02:53 PM fragalot: at the time, it WAS play money
02:53 PM fragalot: which is why I formatted my drive without thinking twice about the $0.0005 worth it had on it
02:53 PM fragalot: which would now have been 75k
02:53 PM fragalot: lol
02:53 PM gloops: data recovery lol
02:54 PM fragalot: nah lost cause
02:54 PM fragalot: data recovery only works if you do it right away
02:54 PM fragalot: not after 7 years of heavy use
02:54 PM gloops: yeah thats gone
02:56 PM roycroft: it's estimated that up to 1/3 of all bitcoin is lost forever because of people losing their wallet information
02:56 PM roycroft: so there will effectively only ever be 14 million bitcoins not 21 million
02:56 PM Rab: Heh, wonder what the percentage is for cash.
02:57 PM roycroft: measurable, but much smaller, i should think
02:57 PM roycroft: much smaller by at least a couple orders of magnitude
02:58 PM Rab: Wait, people can continue to lose their wallet information, right? So over time the vast majority of bitcoin could disappear, unless people get more srs about safeguarding it?
02:58 PM roycroft: yes
02:59 PM roycroft: although when its value is ~$10k or higher, i should think that people would be better safeguarding their wallets
02:59 PM fragalot: roycroft: you'd think so, but they still trust it to services that manage it for them sometimes
02:59 PM fragalot: and those services, just like the bitcoin, give no guarantees
03:00 PM roycroft: people trust their cash to services that manage it for them sometimes (banks)
03:00 PM fragalot: yeah but banks have been regulated since they weren't
03:00 PM roycroft: and banks only insure deposits up to a fixed amount
03:00 PM gregcnc_: it's enough for most people
03:00 PM Rab: Sure, but it sounds like loss is cumulative. So if one in a thousand loses their credentials or whatever in a year, that's still total attrition of the pool in a thousand years.
03:01 PM gloops: a meme that went round here in the war was 'when did you last see your money?'
03:01 PM roycroft: if you have a half a million dollars in a bank account and that bank goes under, you get $150k back from the fdic insurance
03:01 PM roycroft: and good luck getting the rest of it
03:01 PM fragalot: gloops: "a meme" .. during the war.
03:01 PM gloops: sure, not called a meme back then of course
03:01 PM MrHindsight: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20180130-aerosint-develops-first-commercial-multi-powder-sls-3d-printer.html
03:01 PM roycroft: and in a thousand years, rab, that one remaining bitcoin will be worth an insane amount of money, like ONE MILLION DOLLARS
03:02 PM fragalot: xD
03:02 PM gloops: people were getting pretty suspicious that the government had spent their savings on the war effort
03:02 PM fragalot: roycroft: a museum will have it on display
03:03 PM roycroft: you see reports of people finding big bags of cash once in a while
03:03 PM roycroft: and of people who had their life savings stuffed in a mattress when their house burned down
03:03 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: very interesting; I wonder if they can give off material certificates for the final parts?
03:03 PM roycroft: nice anecdotal reports
03:03 PM gloops: people going to the bank, drawing out all their cash, then putting it straight back - just to check they still could
03:03 PM fragalot: roycroft: the nice thing there is inflation
03:04 PM fragalot: your cash money gets artificially devalued over time
03:04 PM roycroft: but marketwatch estimate there is approximately $36.8 trillion dollars worth of money (defined as currency, coins, and deposits in bank accounts) throughout the world
03:04 PM roycroft: so those anecdotes of $10k here, $5k there don't add up to much
03:04 PM fragalot: roycroft: it's more fun when you start looking into how much money there is, and how much debt there is
03:04 PM roycroft: the amount of "cash" that is lost is proably more like 4 orders of magnitude less than the amount of lost bitcoin
03:04 PM fragalot: theorethically, the 2 should add up
03:04 PM fragalot: but they don't
03:05 PM gloops: a lot of cash is made by under the radar practices though
03:05 PM roycroft: let's not get into monetary theory today
03:05 PM gloops: you cant put it in a bank
03:05 PM roycroft: we've been good at keeping politics (and hence economics) out of our discussions here of late
03:06 PM roycroft: there are some here who do not appreciate that kind of conversation on this channel
03:06 PM Rab: roycroft, those lump sums are outliers though. How many single bills (and change) does a person lose over their lifetime?
03:06 PM gregcnc_: is this really news? http://www.3ders.org/articles/20180120-texas-hobbyists-3d-printed-crystal-radio-works-without-a-battery-or-external-power-source.html
03:07 PM gloops: old tech
03:07 PM roycroft: rab: i lost $1200 once when a bag fell off my bike that had my wallet in it
03:08 PM roycroft: the wallet was returned to me, but without the cash
03:08 PM roycroft: and it was returned via a third party
03:08 PM Connor: okay.. WTF.. Manual says to use Graphite based grease for the power feed.. Who the heck carries that..
03:08 PM roycroft: i did nor persue the matter
03:08 PM gloops: they made cats whisker radios in POW camps, 80 years ago
03:08 PM Connor: I have Lithium based grease out the ye-yang...
03:08 PM roycroft: out of all the cash i've handled in my life that's actually a very small amount
03:08 PM Rab: gregcnc_, big news. That person was able to use hip technology to save them the trouble of finding, like, a toilet paper tube.
03:08 PM roycroft: to my knowledge i've not lost any other money
03:08 PM roycroft: but that's the thing about losing stuff - often you don't realise you've lost it
03:09 PM sync: Connor: everybody who has an old car
03:09 PM roycroft: especially something like cash, which one churns through
03:09 PM gloops: graphite is used for locks
03:09 PM fragalot: Connor: I still have a few tubs of aerospace grade graphite lube from the 70's-ish
03:09 PM fragalot: needs a bit of a stir before use now, lol
03:09 PM roycroft: when i bought my current car there was $400 in a bank envelope in the glove box
03:09 PM gregcnc_: I usually put down a tool and lose it immediately. i know I've lost because it was in my hand seconds earlier and is nowehere to be found
03:09 PM roycroft: i bought the car from a dealer and i know the dealer did not put the cash there
03:09 PM roycroft: so someone else lost $400
03:10 PM roycroft: and probably did not realise they lost it
03:10 PM roycroft: that puts me $800 in the hole as far as lost cash goes, i guess
03:11 PM Rab: roycroft, oh dear, I hadn't considered found cash.
03:11 PM Connor: fragalot: That doesn't help me much. :_
03:11 PM fragalot: Connor: figured i'd try
03:11 PM Connor: I was looking at the autoparts places..
03:11 PM fragalot: ebay. :P
03:11 PM roycroft: and btw, i was certain the dealer did not put the cash there because the bank envelope was from a bank based in another state that went under during the financial crisis in 2008
03:11 PM Rab: So maybe the percentage forever lost to humanity isn't that large.
03:12 PM roycroft: that cash had been in that car for a *long* time
03:14 PM roycroft: how much has been "lost" when countries revalue their currency and give a limited window for converting the old currency to the new?
03:14 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GP-GRAPHITE-GREASE-CONSTANT-VELOCITY-CV-JOINTS-STEERING-SUSPENSION-500g-TUB/172734419746?
03:15 PM roycroft: there's a lot of currency floating around that has been officially removed from circulation by the issuing government and is no longer legal tender
03:15 PM gregcnc_: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/93092/CALIFORNIA-TOWN-FINDS-COINS-LURKING-IN-RAW-SEWER-SLUDGE.html
03:15 PM Rab: "ass pennies"
03:16 PM roycroft: the united states is unusual, btw, in that we have *never* removed legal tender status from any of our currency, save some war currencies issued to be revokable in case it falls in enemy hands
03:16 PM roycroft: if you have a 1794 penny you can spend it
03:16 PM roycroft: you'd be a fool to do so, as it has a collector value of hundreds or thousands of dollars, depending on condition
03:16 PM roycroft: but you can use it as a penny at the local market if you want
03:17 PM roycroft: and they cannot refuse it
03:17 PM gloops: you might need to make a phone call to save your life
03:17 PM fragalot: phone call
03:17 PM gloops: oh sht ive only got my prized silver penny on me!
03:17 PM fragalot: with a penny
03:17 PM gregcnc_: unless it's two dollar bill because those are fake
03:17 PM fragalot: do they even have phone booths anymore?
03:17 PM fragalot: they removed them here...
03:18 PM gloops: yeah most have gone, some card ones left
03:18 PM gregcnc_: I had a guy didn't want to take an old all green 100USD bill in a private transaction
03:18 PM roycroft: i've had places not want to accept two dollar bills before
03:19 PM roycroft: that's illegal
03:19 PM roycroft: if the person told you ahead of time "if you intend to pay with a $100 bill i will not sell to you" that's perfectly legal
03:19 PM gloops: ive had 50s turned down, i think they should take them by law, small traders
03:19 PM roycroft: but once the person says "ok, i'll sell it to you" if you offer a $100 they cannot legally refuse
03:20 PM fragalot: Sue them
03:20 PM fragalot: it's the american way
03:20 PM roycroft: if you look at the bill it says "this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private" right on the front
03:21 PM fragalot: roycroft: what if they are unable to pay you the $99.50 in change when you use it to buy a pack of gum?
03:21 PM gloops: odd time ive had 20s turned down - you arent spending 30 pence with a ÂŁ20
03:21 PM roycroft: i don't know what the law is in the uk
03:22 PM roycroft: but in the united states they are required by federal law to accept the note
03:22 PM roycroft: fragalot: they have a problem then
03:22 PM fragalot: you are also required by law to adhere to the speed limit
03:22 PM gloops: common way for counterfeiters to dispose of dodgy nots - buy a few penny item and locket the legal change
03:22 PM fragalot: the law is up for interpretation until someone calls you out for it :P
03:22 PM roycroft: but if they post at the checkout "no $100 bills accepted" then you do not incur a legal debt if your intent is to pay with a $100 bill
03:23 PM gloops: pocket the change lol
03:23 PM roycroft: the law on accepting currency is very clear
03:23 PM gregcnc_: everything is legal until you get caught?
03:23 PM roycroft: it's one of the laws that is not subject to interpretation
03:23 PM roycroft: if you have a reasonable suspician that a note is counterfeit then of course you're not required to accept it
03:23 PM roycroft: counterfeit currency is not legal tender
03:24 PM gregcnc_: even if it says so on the back?
03:24 PM fragalot: touché gregcnc_
03:24 PM roycroft: the printing on the front of a us bank note is not what makes it legal tender
03:24 PM roycroft: the federal law enabling the issuance of the note is what makes it legal tender
03:24 PM roycroft: no law makes counterfeit currency legal tender
03:25 PM gregcnc_: yes we know the laws and that it really has no value
03:25 PM Rab: Are you one of those people who shows up with a jar of pennies going, "Aha! Legal tender!"
03:25 PM roycroft: we're treading dangerously close to discussing monetary policy now :)
03:26 PM fragalot: so how about that whole global warming thing then
03:26 PM gregcnc_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3zEOcNswmA
03:26 PM roycroft: there things that are legal to do
03:26 PM roycroft: and there are things that are courteous to do
03:26 PM roycroft: showing up with a jar of pennies to pay a debt is not courteous
03:26 PM XXCoder: pink_vampire:
03:26 PM roycroft: even though it is legal
03:26 PM fragalot: putting them in a jar rather than a wheelbarrow is the courteous thing to do.
03:26 PM roycroft: i try to treat people decently
03:26 PM roycroft: even when they don't reciprocate
03:27 PM roycroft: so no, i would not be the person showing up with the jar of pennies to pay my power bill or whatever
03:27 PM gloops: bus drivers do that if you pay with a big note
03:27 PM gloops: heres your big bagful of change sir
03:28 PM gregcnc_: dollar coins confuse people too
03:28 PM roycroft: if someone declines to accept a legal bank note without prior notice, i would make an issue of it
03:28 PM fragalot: gloops: no bus i've ever used in the UK gave change...
03:28 PM roycroft: bus drivers? change?
03:28 PM fragalot: gloops: at least not recently
03:28 PM roycroft: bus drivers here do not have the ability to give change
03:28 PM fragalot: "oh whoops your money is gone now"
03:28 PM roycroft: whatever you put in the money collector stays there
03:28 PM gloops: no change? they do here
03:28 PM gloops: well they did last time i caught a bus
03:28 PM roycroft: if you stuff a $100 bill in the thing then you just paid $100 to ride the bus
03:28 PM fragalot: gloops: they don't in the civilized part of the UK
03:29 PM gloops: you still pay the driver here
03:29 PM gloops: talking about london i suppose fragalot
03:29 PM fragalot: you just dump it in a one-way chute in nottingham
03:29 PM fragalot: gloops: oh no I was taking the piss
03:30 PM gloops: i tend to avoid nottingham really
03:30 PM fragalot: it's not that bad if you don't go near it, really
03:31 PM gloops: nottingham miners broke the strike in 84, still a lot of old memories
03:44 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tractor-Saw-Bench-Belt-Driven-Suit-Vintage-Tractor/173125669190?
03:45 PM gloops: dont think id want to be using that somehow
03:45 PM fragalot: it's fiiine
03:46 PM fragalot: some wire wool, some elbow grease, new babbit bearings
03:46 PM fragalot: and then put it in the garden as a decorative item
03:46 PM gloops: it would cut your arm straight off lol
03:46 PM gloops: or your head
03:46 PM Rab: I think I'd be worried about kickback...of the table
03:47 PM gloops: driven by tractor pto - no stop button on those
03:48 PM Wolf__: dont insert arms or head in it and you’ll be fine
03:48 PM gloops: 6 foot push-stick
03:49 PM Wolf__: more fun to watch someone that would do this https://youtu.be/WSNIzxkD450 operate that saw
03:52 PM gloops: nobody would know when its painted
03:53 PM Wolf__: until it falls down lol
04:01 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/American-Antique-Foot-Powered-Scroll-saw-1884/122940261544?
04:01 PM gloops: that is nice, may fetch ÂŁ200
04:10 PM Rab: Interesting that it has two pedals rather than a treadle. Must have required quite a bit of skill to feed fine scrollwork while operating the thing like a StairMaster.
04:11 PM XXCoder: typical spring weather here. either very very heavy rain or clear skies, often switching between those 2
04:11 PM XXCoder: and its jan.
04:13 PM gloops: yeah Rab, just rythmical pressing one foot is like a subconscious thing, pedalling with both is a bit different
04:14 PM roycroft: pedal lathes are interesting
04:14 PM roycroft: because you have to pedal them backwards
04:15 PM roycroft: which is difficult for some folks to do
04:15 PM gloops: why do you have to pedal backwards? surely can be reversed by gears
04:15 PM XXCoder: what I thought
04:15 PM roycroft: pedal lathes do not have fancy-shmancy gears
04:15 PM roycroft: they have pedals
04:15 PM roycroft: and a spindle
04:15 PM roycroft: and a leather belt
04:16 PM XXCoder: cross belt
04:16 PM roycroft: i've never seen one like that
04:16 PM roycroft: every one i've ever seen has a straight linkage belt
04:16 PM Rab: Foot-operated printing presses were common, I've seen several myself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYJ1777AUNY
04:16 PM gloops: well, some gear cutting lathes were treadle operated, still come up sometimes complete, usually had electric motors added later, treadle gone
04:17 PM roycroft: yes, when i mention pedal lathes, i'm referring to wood lathes
04:17 PM roycroft: metal lathes would normally be more complex machines anyway
04:17 PM roycroft: and a pedal gear would not be out of line for that
04:17 PM Rab: It's a lot to coordinate. Leave a finger in a fraction of a second too long, and you lose it. Very common for printers to be missing digits in that era.
04:18 PM XXCoder: lathe is over 3500 years old
04:18 PM Rab: Boo to the videographer for distracting the guy.
04:19 PM Deejay: gn8
04:19 PM gloops: by accident i set my old lathe up with the motor overhead, long v belt coming down, its easy to cut by pulling the v belt to turn the spindle, i sometimes do when its a bit of a tight cut or something
04:20 PM roycroft: early lathes had a single treadle and a spring pole
04:20 PM gloops: ahh the pole lathe is very old, just the spring of the sapling to drive it
04:23 PM roycroft: well today i should be able to get the hinges on the top of my router table and get the dust collection chamber made and plumbed
04:23 PM roycroft: as soon as those things are done i can start using the router table to make the rest of it
04:24 PM pink_vampire: hi all
04:24 PM roycroft: hmm, i should probably varnish the dust collection chamber so that it's slicker, so maybe not until the weekend will it be ready for production
04:25 PM gloops: hello pink_vampire
04:28 PM pink_vampire: hi gloops
04:28 PM roycroft: the sun is shining
04:28 PM roycroft: it might be a good day to head to the hardwood purveyor, since i have to haul wood in my pickup at the moment
04:30 PM roycroft: i need to go to the steel yard as well
04:30 PM Tom_L: there used to be a guy here that dealt in exotic woods and veneers
04:31 PM Tom_L: then there's paxton lumber
04:32 PM roycroft: we have only a couple decent hardwood vendors here in eugene
04:32 PM roycroft: there are a number of really good ones in portland though
04:32 PM Tom_L: you'd think you would have quite a few
04:34 PM roycroft: if i want to build with alder, birch, broadleaf maple, black oak, myrtle, or madrona there are a *lot* of places to get the wood around here
04:34 PM roycroft: but for non-natives it's a bit more difficult
04:34 PM roycroft: i'd like to go exploring for lumber in northern california, inland
04:35 PM roycroft: like near redding/chico
04:35 PM roycroft: there should be a decent amount of olivewood and almond wood around there
04:35 PM roycroft: and when i head down the northern california coast there's plenty of redwood to be had, of course
04:36 PM Tom_L: i heard the 'big' one fell down
04:36 PM roycroft: right now i just need a few board/feet of poplar for this router stand - i need to make some interior supports and the like
04:36 PM roycroft: there's no use wasting nicely figured wood for that
04:36 PM roycroft: poplar is cheap and plenty strong
04:43 PM roycroft: i think it was a giant sequoia that fell, not a coast redwood
04:44 PM roycroft: the giant sequoias are the largest trees in the world by mass, and grow in the sierras
04:44 PM roycroft: the coast redwoods are the tallest trees in the world, and grow along the northern california/southern oregon coast
04:46 PM roycroft: that said, there are coast redwoods that are large enough in diameter that they've been carved out so that cars can drive through them
04:57 PM JT-Shop: is there more than the one in the park
04:59 PM roycroft: there was a widely-reported giant sequoia that fell down last winter
04:59 PM MrHindsight: gregcnc_: have you ever paid with cash at Fresh Thyme?
04:59 PM roycroft: it was an especially large one, and a very popular tourist destination
05:00 PM roycroft: i figured that was the one that was being discusssed
05:00 PM phaxx: a poplar tourist destination.
05:00 PM gregcnc_: i rarely go, but if it's like my wife says, they wouldn't be able to count out the change
05:02 PM MrHindsight: gregcnc_: they check the $20 with a yellow marker
05:02 PM MrHindsight: and if you ask them to check the bills they hand you they won't
05:02 PM gregcnc_: lol
05:02 PM gregcnc_: bring your own pen enxt time
05:02 PM MrHindsight: i just stopped going
05:03 PM gregcnc_: josephs is closing
05:03 PM gloops: well, a glass of homemade blackberry wine before bed
05:03 PM MrHindsight: my guess was Fresh Thyme
05:03 PM MrHindsight: since whatchacallit is going up across the street
05:03 PM gloops: purely medicinal, blackberry has renowned ancient healing properties
05:04 PM gregcnc_: yeah marianos supposed to be expensive
05:04 PM Loetmichel: *MUHAHA* just watched a episode of "the autodoctors" (german car mechanics series) on youtube.. VW polo is in for the second time in 4 weeks with a worn clutch... mechanic is out of ideas... until he drives with the 88 year old guy in the car... Diagnosis: forgotten hearing aid! The driver floored it into the rpm limiter at every gear change because he didnt hear the engine scream. :-)
05:04 PM MrHindsight: hah
05:05 PM gloops: yes, engines can be too quiet, in a rolls royce the only thing you can hear is the clock ticking
05:05 PM gregcnc_: obviously quiet engines are why fart can exhausts were invented
05:06 PM Loetmichel: whats a fart can exhaust?
05:06 PM Loetmichel: empty muffler?
05:07 PM MrHindsight: pretty much
05:07 PM gloops: at the stock cars, my brother used to race bangers, first thing they did was saw the exhaust off - you cant hear the engine in the middle of a load of other screeching cars
05:07 PM MrHindsight: glass pack
05:07 PM MrHindsight: I had cars with open headers that I never got stopped in
05:08 PM Loetmichel: MrHindsight: obviously you dont live in germany
05:08 PM Loetmichel: i once got stopped with a 50cc bike though. 50 meters after my muffler fell off while driving it...
05:09 PM MrHindsight: sound police
05:09 PM Loetmichel: the police officer was understanding though, he didnt ticket me because he SAW the muffler fall off
05:09 PM Loetmichel: and he even allowed me to drive to the company the last few km
05:10 PM Loetmichel: "but see to it that it is fixed before you drive home in the evening, ok?"
05:10 PM MrHindsight: sure, I'll have the muffler shop by during lunch
05:11 PM Loetmichel: MrHindsight: no need for that
05:11 PM MrHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib351bIwyoU at 3am
05:11 PM Loetmichel: just needed a single M6 screw and an M6 nut
05:11 PM MrHindsight: so loud you can not have a conversation inside when driving
05:11 PM Loetmichel: the muffler was only "plugged in" to the header and fixed to the bike with a single screw
05:12 PM MrHindsight: easy fix
05:12 PM Loetmichel: which somehow unscrewed itself ;)
05:12 PM pink_vampire: i need 2 8-32 screws
05:12 PM gregcnc_: makes them
05:12 PM MrHindsight: huh, no vibration :)
05:12 PM gloops: i need 2 m11 1mm - nothing in the world has them except for chinese ballscrews
05:13 PM enleth: yeah, loud cars are cool and all, if owned by level-headed people who use them on racetracks or in the middle of nowhere
05:13 PM Loetmichel: MrHindsight: i worked on 17.5 liters V12 diesel engines on our RVs
05:13 PM gregcnc_: loud pipes save lives
05:13 PM enleth: not so when some dolt drives one around the neighborhood at night just because
05:13 PM Loetmichel: ... THAT is loud without headers or anything
05:13 PM MrHindsight: was 18 and poor, had to save up for mufflers
05:14 PM enleth: or at any time, in extreme cases
05:15 PM MrHindsight: but drive 32mph in a 30 and get stopped in 2 minutes
05:15 PM Loetmichel: you could literally see the explosion coming out of the heads on every exhaust cycle
05:15 PM gloops: the old bikes were the best, everybody took the baffles out, youd hear this thundering noise, like something was approaching at 100mph then a bike would appear doing about 30mph, it was like slow motion
05:16 PM gregcnc_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4jEbp3mDcM
05:16 PM MrHindsight: around here you know it's summer when the harleys all come out
05:16 PM MrHindsight: 2 cylinder flub flub flub bone shakers
05:16 PM gregcnc_: yeah, that's what gets to me. I asked somebody once and was told they leave the factory at legal noise limits
05:17 PM MrHindsight: haha
05:17 PM Loetmichel: MrHindsight: HD?
05:17 PM Loetmichel: wouldnt that be more like "flulub flulub"?
05:17 PM MrHindsight: Loetmichel: yeah, people actually like them here, awful bikes
05:18 PM sync: at least they are loud
05:18 PM gloops: i cant see the thing harleys, they are nice machines, but really i cant see that being the best seating position to be in for hours or at high speeds or whatever
05:18 PM MrHindsight: Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOe8yFug2fQ
05:18 PM gregcnc_: i just read they are closing a plant in KS? https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/01/30/harley-davidson-kansas-city-plant-motorcycle-sales-fall/1078008001/
05:19 PM gloops: i find it more comfortable to be leaning forward on a bike than sat back
05:19 PM Loetmichel: MrHindsight: thats what i meant: double bang, nothing, double bang
05:19 PM MrHindsight: Loetmichel: awful
05:19 PM Loetmichel: the characteristic "V twin" sound of HD
05:20 PM gregcnc_: two cylinder 45 degree radial
05:20 PM MrHindsight: South Park Harley Davidson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMnhgvOd5BY
05:21 PM MrHindsight: sums it up
05:21 PM Loetmichel: MrHindsight: imagine THAT without exhaust or headers: https://youtu.be/Tget7hNlVTY?t=33
05:22 PM MrHindsight: yeah, worked on those years ago
05:22 PM MrHindsight: I don't mind that
05:22 PM MrHindsight: it's the cycles that get annoying
05:22 PM gregcnc_: https://youtu.be/AqrbtxcNqbM?t=55s
05:23 PM MrHindsight: every now and then I'll hear some Jap bike reved up to >10K rpm at 2am
05:23 PM MrHindsight: plus we have a small airport nearby
05:23 PM gregcnc_: i hear them on Rakow all the time, often through 4 or more gears
05:24 PM MrHindsight: some WWII planes will come through, sounds like an attack in an old war movie
05:26 PM MrHindsight: hah 8 hour video of B-17 sounds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujr5ld4I_Xo
05:26 PM MrHindsight: a full nights sleep
05:27 PM gloops: BSA A10 dyno run, great noise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-BBfbf5hB0
05:28 PM MrHindsight: how reliable are the older BSA's?
05:29 PM MrHindsight: BMW's were always the reliable road bike
05:29 PM JT-Shop: so long as you don't need electrics it's ok
05:29 PM MrHindsight: HD, and all the Japanese brands would just rattle apart
05:29 PM MrHindsight: JT-Shop: what did you like back then?
05:30 PM JT-Shop: I had a Honda 50 Super Sport that ran forever
05:31 PM JT-Shop: that would be 1968 or so
05:31 PM MrHindsight: JT-Shop: do you ever have problems with people not seeing you on the Spyder?
05:31 PM JT-Shop: no
05:31 PM JT-Shop: once on the Goldwing but the brakes are amazing
05:32 PM MrHindsight: I got a hit a few times in an Alfa Romeo Spyder with the top down
05:32 PM MrHindsight: older people would run into the back of me at stop lights
05:32 PM gloops: bsa's were reliable if you knew what you were doing with bike engines
05:32 PM phipli: I had an articulated lorry pull into my lane while I was in it in my mk1 MX5
05:32 PM MrHindsight: I stated waving my hands in the air
05:32 PM phipli: that... gave me a fright
05:32 PM JT-Shop: I thought the lucas parts were the biggest issue with bsa
05:33 PM MrHindsight: yeah Lucas
05:33 PM JT-Shop: hmm everyone is going to bed time to pick up Henry's food bowl... he's in the dog house for a while
05:34 PM phipli: what did he do?
05:34 PM MrHindsight: https://twitter.com/thegrandtour/status/952238842794274818?lang=en
05:34 PM gloops: its not something you can just buy and run for years without ever touching it, they were constantly messing about - minor things, but nevertheless would be considered unreliable today
05:34 PM MrHindsight: Lucas Replacement Wiring harness Smoke :)
05:35 PM gloops: the tiget tank was deemed unreliable - but the breakdowns only came when all the old tank crews who knew who to keep a tank engine running, were gone, the younger crews later in the war had no idea - it stopped running, that was it, nobody could get it started
05:36 PM MrHindsight: gloops: how is a 12 year old tank commander supposed to know?
05:37 PM Tom_L: don't you just push reset? that's what they do in the video games..
05:38 PM gloops: MrHindsight surely they had track bikes by that age, should know a bit about engines
05:42 PM MrHindsight: age 8 when the war started
05:42 PM JT-Shop: phipli: he tried to kick box me a couple of times so time for him to go into the now prepared separation place ie the dog house
05:42 PM MrHindsight: 4 years in Hitler Youth
05:43 PM phipli: JT-Shop, back being a trouble maker again
05:43 PM phipli: shame
05:43 PM MrHindsight: all you're good at is washing floors with tooth brushes
05:44 PM JT-Shop: well I'm nipping this behavior in the bud... it's not over till the fat lady sings :)
05:44 PM MrHindsight: and taking orders
05:45 PM JT-Shop: I think he is smart enough to sort it out after a while but with his hormones raging he needs some bachelor time lol
05:46 PM phipli: if it works, tell me
05:46 PM phipli: I need to sort our our bully sometime
05:46 PM JT-Shop: phipli: got my rpi zero today
05:46 PM phipli: :)
05:46 PM phipli: project for the week?
05:46 PM JT-Shop: but yours are all female so different
05:46 PM phipli: I've breadboarded the circuit I drew up over the last few days
05:46 PM JT-Shop: nest box camera
05:47 PM JT-Shop: nice
05:47 PM phipli: tomorrow I'll do the routing and then I'm going to order a few
05:47 PM phipli: not got any PCBs made before
05:47 PM phipli: are you going to run it off a battery?
05:48 PM JT-Shop: yes for testing I have https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0194WDVHI
05:48 PM Loetmichel: phipli: no CNC router aviable and some blank pcbs to make the prototype yourself?
05:49 PM JT-Shop: http://gnipsel.com/images/machines/cleaner/
05:49 PM JT-Shop: a few new photos
05:49 PM phipli: Loetmichel, planning on making something smaller than usual
05:49 PM phipli: I've breadboarded the schematic so should be ok
05:50 PM phipli: JT-Shop, might be worth underclocking the pi to reduce the power consumption
05:51 PM JT-Shop: yea, I noticed you can't put the heat sink on with the camera in the case
05:51 PM MrHindsight: have a pic with the camera?
05:52 PM JT-Shop: photo of the camera or a photo the camera produces
05:52 PM MrHindsight: camera mounted to see how you can still cool it all
05:52 PM phipli: It wont get hot
05:53 PM JT-Shop: auto door going down
05:53 PM MrHindsight: never mind then
05:55 PM JT-Shop: time to finish the chicken and dumplings
06:28 PM MrHindsight: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20180130-aerosint-develops-first-commercial-multi-powder-sls-3d-printer.html so do they use 2 drums (one for each different powder) to lay down each powder like a laser printer onto the previous layers?
06:28 PM MrHindsight: I see the graphics and read the descriptions but they seem to conflict
06:30 PM MrHindsight: do they lay down the sinterable powder in the pattern of the part to be printed and then just blast the whole bed with laser?
06:30 PM MrHindsight: the support powder does not sinter/fuse
06:32 PM MrHindsight: is the laser selective where it is focused and aimed?
06:33 PM Wolf__: I would think it would need to be
06:33 PM MrHindsight: not if the support powder doesn't melt/fuse
06:34 PM MrHindsight: you could then just scan the whole bed and it would only fuse where you lay the fuseable powder
06:34 PM MrHindsight: but I'm not sure if thats is what they do since the "writer" isn't clear
06:35 PM MrHindsight: and the graphics don't show the laser hitting the drums to produce a pattern the way a laser printer/copier works
06:36 PM MrHindsight: "a dispenser composed of multiple patterning drums (one per powder type) that selectively deposit fine powder voxels line by line"
06:36 PM MarcelineVQ: sounds like it's aimed but there's reduced concern about hitting the support material because that part is cheap
06:37 PM MrHindsight: "This process produces a sintering-ready powder layer composed of more than one base material, and can pattern at rates of up to 200 mm/s"
06:37 PM MrHindsight: MarcelineVQ: also says that the support material doesn't fuse
06:37 PM Wolf__: scanning the whole area would be a huge waste of time I would think, but would mean that edge definition would be a worry so they could over shoot
06:38 PM Wolf__: would/wouldnt be
06:38 PM MrHindsight: lots of ifs
06:38 PM MarcelineVQ: it would be expensive to not aim, since you're spreading out your energy
06:38 PM MrHindsight: I can see building it either way
06:38 PM MrHindsight: just wondering still what they actually do
06:40 PM MarkusBec: and laser life time
06:41 PM MarkusBec: i think 2$ of power for a laser /h in a maschine for 50k+++++ is nothing
06:41 PM MrHindsight: http://aerosint.com/home/
06:42 PM MrHindsight: We don’t need to recycle material, because we only put it down where necessary; we’re trying to circumvent that completely. We fuse only polymer areas, and use a cheap silica or alumina non-fusible support material
06:43 PM MrHindsight: https://3dprint.com/190661/aerosint-multi-material-3dp/
06:43 PM MrHindsight: The prototype is a retrofitted industrial SLS printer from 1997 in which we have integrated our patterning drums.
06:45 PM MrHindsight: patterning drums might mean that they lay down powder in a pattern
06:46 PM Wolf__: thats kinda what I took away from that article
06:46 PM MrHindsight: so maybe it's patterned material and selective scan with a laser to fuse
06:48 PM MrHindsight: how the drum produces the patters is left out of the descriptions
06:48 PM MrHindsight: patters/patterns
06:52 PM MarcelineVQ: the subject of their patend I suppose :>
06:53 PM MrHindsight: or each drum just lays down a full layer
06:54 PM Wolf__: would have to lay down a pattern
06:54 PM MrHindsight: and then the laser scans and only sinters the plastic powder and not the silica support powder
06:54 PM MrHindsight: but this would trap some of the silica in the thermoplastic
06:55 PM Wolf__: probably not plastic
06:55 PM MarcelineVQ: some. with some combos thought they'd repel each other
06:55 PM MarcelineVQ: *though
06:55 PM MrHindsight: yeah plus if they use electrostatic drums then materials would also be limited
06:55 PM Wolf__: I think most SLS are printing metals
06:55 PM MrHindsight: this is for plastics
06:56 PM MarcelineVQ: it's claimed to be material agnostic, to a reasonable point, in the article but we'll find out eventually I suppose
06:56 PM Wolf__: PEEK was one of the examples
06:58 PM Wolf__: the company also notes that their dispensing technology “works with virtually any type of 3D printing powder: polymers, metals, ceramics, organic…” leaving the door open to additional developments.
06:58 PM Wolf__: I wonder how the hell that drum system works lol
06:59 PM MrHindsight: yeah what I'm wondering
07:00 PM Wolf__: neat sounding system and makes sense
07:00 PM Wolf__: then you only need the volume of the part being made in powdered material vs the full build chamber
07:04 PM MrHindsight: one issue is that when many powders are fused they shrink
07:04 PM MrHindsight: if the support material does not then how does it handle the shrink?
07:06 PM MrHindsight: https://www.3dprintingmedia.network/aerosint-multi-powder-sls-3d-printer/
07:07 PM Wolf__: no idea, if I ever hit the lotto and buy a SLS printer I’ll let ya know =)
07:07 PM MrHindsight: The patterning drums selectively deposit fine powder voxels line by line.
07:07 PM MrHindsight: I'm finishing one up here
07:08 PM MrHindsight: real high res, small build area
07:08 PM Wolf__: nice
07:08 PM MrHindsight: https://ibin.co/w800/3i0LDN2s3TZ7.jpg
07:09 PM MrHindsight: https://medium.com/@aerosint/how-multi-powder-deposition-will-transform-industrial-3d-printing-fa7c83631091
07:10 PM MrHindsight: Our technique is inherently line-by-line, and we can pattern at rates of up to 200 mm/s.
07:11 PM MrHindsight: oooh but the resolution is low
07:11 PM MrHindsight: look at the pics in the last article
07:12 PM MrHindsight: https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/1*Ovi5RnZQIMM7YHibOiUxPQ.gif video!
07:13 PM Wolf__: hehe 8bit looking stuff
07:22 PM Wolf__: anyone ever look in to using fiberoptic beam break sensor for tool detection
07:41 PM phipli: hum
07:41 PM phipli: should probably go to bed
08:56 PM pink_vampire: the machine make some brass chips!
08:57 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/4cBkycO.jpg
09:44 PM Wolf__: I need to make some chips on my machines...
09:52 PM Wolf__: so what ya making now pink?
09:59 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Way_Cover.jpg
10:00 PM Wolf__: fancy
10:00 PM Tom_L: the guy at the supply place just gave it to me
10:01 PM Wolf__: yeah, I was lurking in here earlier when you were talking about it
10:01 PM Tom_L: ahh
10:01 PM Tom_L: i had a heck of a time finding them since they'd moved
10:01 PM Wolf__: good score
10:01 PM Cromaglious: Wolf, I FINALLY ordered my smoothieboard
10:02 PM Tom_L: ~10' roll
10:02 PM Wolf__: lol
10:02 PM Wolf__: shit, really good score there Tom
10:02 PM Cromaglious: now I can get back to running a laser cutter...
10:02 PM Tom_L: some was cut a little narrower but it'll work great on the column one if i need it there
10:03 PM Wolf__: my pos laser toy is sitting out in my garage
10:03 PM Cromaglious: need to get a flow sensor though
10:03 PM Wolf__: I have a couple here that have halls sensors in them
10:04 PM Tom_L: i thought about putting some of it around the table as a skirt to protect the X rails & drag chain
10:05 PM Tom_L: maybe 2-3" or so
10:07 PM Wolf__: not a bad idea
10:07 PM Tom_L: at least front and back
10:08 PM Tom_L: i'm started putting some plastic guards around part of it
10:09 PM Tom_L: i should give my worktable a coat of paint, looks kinda used there
10:09 PM Tom_L: i've had it since i was a kid though
10:13 PM Contract_Pilot: sup
10:15 PM Contract_Pilot: little Drunk...
10:17 PM Contract_Pilot: shop proposed layout. https://youtu.be/sLRcUvdTAsI
10:19 PM Contract_Pilot: I know my lots is nothing compared to others.. but for me well...
10:32 PM pink_vampire: the part is finished!
10:39 PM Wolf__: yay?
10:41 PM pink_vampire: I'm cutting 2 fittings for it
10:41 PM pink_vampire: and then soldering
10:42 PM pink_vampire: and then (hopefully) it will work
10:48 PM roycroft: i had no success today :(
10:48 PM roycroft: the edge on which i needed to mount the hinges was not straight
10:48 PM roycroft: and the router bit i need to make it straight has a big chip in it
10:48 PM roycroft: i've been meaning to replace that bit but haven't gotten around to it yet
10:48 PM roycroft: the nearest one i could find is in seattle
10:49 PM roycroft: so i had to order one, and nobody had expedited shipping available, so it will be the weekend if i'm really lucky when i get it
10:49 PM roycroft: but probably monday or tuesday next
10:49 PM * roycroft will work on other parts of the project until then
11:09 PM pink_vampire: this is soooo hot!!
11:10 PM Wolf__: o.0
11:10 PM pink_vampire: the brass after soldering
11:11 PM Wolf__: lol yeah
11:17 PM pink_vampire: sooo cute
11:18 PM ziper1: what
11:18 PM pink_vampire: the part
11:21 PM pink_vampire: i took a pic
11:22 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/4cBkycO.jpg
11:22 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/1vRrvwd.jpg
11:22 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/PfLXPOf.jpg
11:22 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/5pSwTPn.jpg
11:22 PM pink_vampire: Wolf__: ^
11:22 PM pink_vampire: ziper1: ^
11:23 PM Wolf__: nice
11:23 PM ziper1: are the barbs brazed?
11:23 PM Wolf__: what is it lol
11:23 PM ziper1: is the bottom threaded?
11:24 PM pink_vampire: tin
11:24 PM pink_vampire: this is the inside https://i.imgur.com/r03Si3j.jpg
11:25 PM Wolf__: making a coolant fogger?
11:25 PM pink_vampire: hope not
11:29 PM Wolf__: looks like a venturi nozzle to me
11:31 PM pink_vampire: it is not a venturi
11:31 PM pink_vampire: just mixing
11:33 PM Wolf__: guess that should work
11:34 PM Wolf__: if you keep the psi low on the air side and feed the coolant via pressurized bottle
11:35 PM Wolf__: going to need flow control on the coolant side tho
11:37 PM Crom_: That reminds me, I need to get 2 regulators for my misters and line
11:40 PM Crom_: I need to send back a suit and get a size smaller
11:40 PM Crom_: maybe 2 sizes...
11:49 PM pink_vampire: the test was awesome success !!!
11:49 PM pink_vampire: now i need to machine a mount for it!
11:50 PM pink_vampire: i have water all over here
11:50 PM pink_vampire: soo fun to play with it