#linuxcnc Logs
Jan 28 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:03 AM jesseg: well you can use a drill bit and drill a row of holes to get half the material out
12:06 AM jesseg: actually you can also hacksaw in like | |
12:06 AM jesseg: then come between and hacksaw like |/| then |\| to make hacksaw cuts like |X| then file out the |^| to end up with |_|
12:06 AM jesseg: LOL is that awful or what
12:06 AM ziper: I understand 100
12:06 AM ziper: because thats what I did
12:06 AM jesseg: lol OK
12:06 AM ziper: but it was difficult to keep the saw from just staying in the deep parts of the cut
12:06 AM ziper: just curious if there were any secrets
12:06 AM jesseg: absolutely. terrible frustrating work.
12:06 AM jesseg: absolutely as in difficult.
12:07 AM jesseg: right at the edge of the known world, and past the edge of civilization
12:08 AM ziper: there is a lot of slop in it but it has to be a lot stronger than the plastic even with my shoddy workmanship
12:08 AM jesseg: absolutely
12:08 AM Wolf__: I think I have a couple of those reels laying around lol
12:09 AM ziper: wow this thing has a lot more max drag than i thought
12:18 AM jesseg: You know, I often think how nice it'd be to be off grid.
12:19 AM jesseg: And now I'm off grid because the power is out, so I plugged my woodstove's fan into my computer UPS (which is running off a 12v car/marine battery)
12:29 AM ziper: now i find them online https://store.scottsbt.com/PennParts/43-720-A.aspx
12:33 AM jesseg: lol
12:35 AM gloops: m11 1mm pitch is uncommon
12:35 AM gloops: but ive just had a thought, isnt that like a standard bicycle wheel nut?
12:36 AM gloops: just trying to think what everyday object might have one, i need a few and no tap
12:45 AM gloops: (got some outside but its still dark)
12:51 AM jesseg: Had to start my generator, my computer's UPS was starting to overheat lol
12:54 AM MarcelineVQ: oop :D
12:55 AM pink_vampire: start
01:01 AM pink_vampire: I just finished a design for a part!!
01:02 AM pink_vampire: jesseg: ? gloops?
01:02 AM gloops: so lets have a look
01:02 AM pink_vampire: you here!
01:02 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/xRh4F7N.jpg
01:03 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/CdiEF6T.jpg
01:03 AM gloops: very good, what are you drawing with?
01:04 AM pink_vampire: solidworks
01:04 AM gloops: ahh nice
01:04 AM gloops: so you can get the g code
01:05 AM pink_vampire: it going to be 99% manual
01:08 AM gloops: whys that?
01:11 AM pink_vampire: almost all the stuff is just flat side milling , and drilling.
01:12 AM pink_vampire: few bores just for the screws heads
01:14 AM pink_vampire: it is for holding a damper
01:22 AM gloops: well bicycle wheel nuts arent going to save me, the only thing in the entire world that uses m11 1mm nuts is a chinese ballscrew
01:24 AM XXCoder: hey
01:26 AM XXCoder: pink_vampire: damper for what?
01:26 AM XXCoder: nice modeling
01:30 AM pink_vampire: for my power hacksaw
01:30 AM XXCoder: whats it damp? vibrations of cutting?
01:31 AM pink_vampire: so it will reduce the blade pressure at the end of the cut
01:31 AM jesseg: looks nice pink_vampire!
01:31 AM XXCoder: ahh cool
01:32 AM jesseg: at least the power came back on lol
01:33 AM pink_vampire: also (maybe) it will give me a room for a limit switch on the side of the part, and then it will stop at the finish of the cut
01:34 AM jesseg: is a power hacksaw like the economy version of a bandsaw?
01:34 AM pink_vampire: no
01:34 AM pink_vampire: it is an old and cute 1950 power tool
01:34 AM jesseg: lol oh ok
01:34 AM pink_vampire: this is how i got it https://i.imgur.com/mg4CUkX.png
01:34 AM jesseg: but I mean if you had a bandsaw would you need a power hacksaw?
01:35 AM jesseg: oh that is tremendously cute.
01:35 AM pink_vampire: after a restoration https://i.imgur.com/HjKJRxZ.png
01:35 AM XXCoder: nice!
01:35 AM pink_vampire: this is the original paint
01:35 AM jesseg: very nice
01:35 AM XXCoder: thosemachine could last forever basically
01:35 AM pink_vampire: he is my baby
01:35 AM XXCoder: and so not oshu compliant lol
01:36 AM pink_vampire: i did few modifications to it,
01:36 AM pink_vampire: some parts tooo expensive to use
01:37 AM jesseg: how long is the stroke on that thing?
01:37 AM gloops: nice saw
01:39 AM pink_vampire: there is a mechanical lever that raise the blade so it cut it only one direction and increase the blade life. but it slow down the cutting, so i took it out (plus the fact it was in mint condition, and part like that cost 200$ now days)
01:39 AM pink_vampire: jesseg: the vice can hold up to 4"
01:40 AM pink_vampire: after modification to the blades it work with 12" 18tpi,normal lenox blades
01:40 AM jesseg: so if it's an 12 inch blade it could have almost a 7 inch stroke
01:41 AM pink_vampire: basically just enlarge the holes in the blade
01:41 AM jesseg: maybe a 6 inch stroke
01:41 AM pink_vampire: something like that
01:41 AM jesseg: very nice indeed
01:41 AM XXCoder: man i miss my cnc ruter lol
01:42 AM pink_vampire: I wish i had a steam engine
01:42 AM jesseg: A big one or a small one?
01:43 AM pink_vampire: originally it was sell without an electric motor, and people was connect it to a steam engine
01:43 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: what happen to it????????
01:43 AM XXCoder: its in my closet. i moved to new place and theres no room for it
01:44 AM XXCoder: we was planning on building a shop but end up paying for new sump pump as basement got wet often when rain
01:45 AM pink_vampire: build a box for it
01:46 AM XXCoder: all of my wood tools is in garage, and its very full
01:46 AM XXCoder: house is smaller than last one, and basement is utterly empty because of water damage and repair going on
01:46 AM XXCoder: it may take a year
01:49 AM XXCoder: thankfully I dont use router for business reasons so its no hardship lol
01:49 AM pink_vampire: for the saw
01:50 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/SIyLWGi.jpg
01:50 AM pink_vampire: done!!
01:51 AM pink_vampire: i have a stock of 1.5"x2"x3"
01:53 AM XXCoder: :)
01:54 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/JMTxT96.jpg
01:54 AM pink_vampire: i'm working on the pink part
01:55 AM pink_vampire: where do i get the seeds for the surface plate?
01:56 AM XXCoder: seeds?
01:56 AM pink_vampire: yes, so i will grow one.
01:57 AM XXCoder: lol
01:57 AM XXCoder: I finally found a cheap ripoff of starret dial test indictor
01:57 AM XXCoder: I bought it and bought it to work, since it has plenty precision equipment
01:57 AM XXCoder: so I tested how accurate it is
01:57 AM XXCoder: it is pretty good
01:58 AM XXCoder: 67 bucks thats all
01:59 AM pink_vampire: I'm using the one from grizzly, and i love him because i did a surgery to him, and fix few issue with the hair spring inside, and also one of the bearings
02:00 AM XXCoder: you repaired a dial test indictor? dang'
02:01 AM pink_vampire: it was on the head of the machine, and he decide to make sure the floor is flat.
02:02 AM XXCoder: doh
02:02 AM XXCoder: my coworker once left one on spindle, and turned spindle on. it decided to check if machine wall is flat lol
02:03 AM pink_vampire: one of the angular contact bearings fly off, a pin in the cast body snap, and the hair spring got disconnect, so i had to solder it back.
02:03 AM pink_vampire: lolllllll
02:03 AM XXCoder: you mean the regular dial indictor or much smaller dial test indictor?
02:04 AM pink_vampire: let me take a pic
02:05 AM XXCoder: cat hair handle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilBSpIfWDt4
02:07 AM pink_vampire: no. it is epoxy
02:07 AM XXCoder: and hair. yeah
02:08 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/NmDe0IQ.jpg
02:09 AM pink_vampire: jb-weld https://i.imgur.com/uvqP4U0.jpg
02:09 AM XXCoder: yep dial test indictor
02:09 AM XXCoder: you must be very good if you could fix that thing.
02:11 AM pink_vampire: it is a veryyyy simple mechanic, there is few springs that pre load the system. and if all the bearings, and the gears in good condition. you are good to go.
02:12 AM XXCoder: ya saw inside of dial indictor (big one)
02:12 AM XXCoder: pretty simple. just need nice precise parts springs
02:13 AM pink_vampire: i need to remove 80% of the stock
02:13 AM IchGucksLive: morning from germany
02:13 AM pink_vampire: all that just to make an L shape!
02:13 AM pink_vampire: hi IchGucksLive
02:14 AM XXCoder: hey
02:14 AM pink_vampire: IchGucksLive: https://i.imgur.com/JMTxT96.jpg
02:14 AM XXCoder: heh yeah thats problem with making parts from solid block
02:15 AM pink_vampire: i need to move on to wire
02:15 AM XXCoder: theres parts made at shop that basically use 1% of orginial block material
02:15 AM gloops: saw the rough L out
02:15 AM XXCoder: you could use a bandsaw for metal
02:16 AM pink_vampire: gloops: the saw in not parallel to the bed of the saw
02:16 AM gloops: riser blocks
02:16 AM XXCoder: or just get bandsaw for metal
02:18 AM IchGucksLive: pink_vampire: holder For ?
02:18 AM XXCoder: gloops: it changes angles as it cuts down
02:18 AM XXCoder: so no
02:19 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: did you feel the sgake from the quake
02:19 AM IchGucksLive: shake
02:19 AM XXCoder: nah
02:20 AM IchGucksLive: im off gandchiles arrived sooner ;-) old man gift
02:20 AM miss0r: goodmorning
02:20 AM XXCoder: hey
02:21 AM miss0r: XXCoder. I made another part for the edm: https://imgur.com/a/eN5ON
02:22 AM XXCoder: the whole thing?
02:22 AM miss0r: well, everything in the picture
02:22 AM miss0r: minus the obvious; axle seals, bearings motor brushes
02:22 AM XXCoder: pretty cool
02:23 AM XXCoder: heh sometimes I feel like im bumpkin here among machinist gods/goddesses :P
02:23 AM miss0r: you and me both, lol.
02:24 AM miss0r: I should not be counted as such.
02:25 AM gloops: did you see those clock faces archivist engraved the other day?
02:25 AM XXCoder: no?
02:25 AM miss0r: Thoes were awesome. You can count archivist as a machinist god, in my opinion
02:25 AM gloops: have to get him to post some more pics - he did them on the old manual engraving machine, beautiful work
02:25 AM XXCoder: clockmakers tend to be.
02:25 AM miss0r: he makes nice stuff & he knows alot about alot of stuff
02:25 AM XXCoder: clickspring
02:27 AM SpeedEvil: 'The painting yellow things blue' channel as I like to call it.
02:27 AM miss0r: gloops; you are hardly the one who should be pressuring people for pictures? :)
02:28 AM gloops: lol, i have nothing to show miss0r, im not a machinist or an engineer, im just trying to make a machine the best i can heh
02:28 AM miss0r: gloops: Same goes for me. I just find other peoples projects interresting ;)
02:29 AM gloops: you post some good stuff miss0r, very professional looking
02:29 AM archivist: gloops, hand engraved no machine used :)
02:30 AM SpeedEvil: :)
02:30 AM gloops: oh i thought you used the engraving machine archivist - after i posted that ebay link to that one
02:30 AM miss0r: Still doesn't make me an engineer or a machinist (by education anyway)
02:30 AM pink_vampire: how to hold small stock in the vise https://i.imgur.com/cwYwZPu.jpg
02:31 AM gloops: what did eddison say '90% perspiration'
02:31 AM archivist: gloops, we used that machine to cut out key blanks
02:31 AM gloops: its a machine ive never seen in operation
02:32 AM pink_vampire: what machine?
02:32 AM archivist: pink_vampire, make small parts on the end of stock you can hold, then part off
02:33 AM pink_vampire: did you saw the part?
02:33 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/JMTxT96.jpg
02:33 AM archivist: I saw it
02:33 AM pink_vampire: i'm working on the pink one
02:33 AM gloops: cant find it now, old engravin machine, was selling for .99 pence
02:35 AM miss0r: XXCoder: How that component fits into the back of the spindle: https://imgur.com/a/fUJ02
02:35 AM gloops: like that https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-TAYLOR-HOBSON-engraving-machine/362220085680?
02:35 AM XXCoder: nice
02:35 AM XXCoder: if I recall there was issue with design and bushings?
02:36 AM miss0r: Yeah, That was the solution I ended up with
02:36 AM XXCoder: nice
02:36 AM Deejay: moin
02:37 AM miss0r: Now I 'just' need to make the rear housing, which seats the stepper and has the external M12 IP67 circular plugs. Then its done
02:37 AM miss0r: mornin'
02:39 AM miss0r: I thought for a moment of using thoes generic chinesium circular plugs, that came with my first CNC. Then I slapped myself and ordered some proper stuff
02:41 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/w2q72UV.mp4
02:41 AM pink_vampire: video!!!!!!
02:41 AM pink_vampire: gloops: it is for you^
02:43 AM miss0r: Dear god. I have become retarted.... I ground a washer for preloading the angular contact bearings with the front housing assembly, in effect making an excellent electrical connection between the shaft and the housing! stupid stupid stupid. I will need to replace that washer with something non conductive. lol
02:43 AM miss0r: damn, that is a nice looking saw
02:44 AM pink_vampire: miss0r: use phenolic laminate
02:44 AM XXCoder: pink_vampire: nice!
02:44 AM miss0r: pink_vampire: Can that be ground?
02:45 AM pink_vampire: it can be sanded
02:45 AM pink_vampire: or even a pcb without the copper layer
02:45 AM miss0r: I'm worried about what surface accuracy I can get (preloading a bearing is no joke)
02:46 AM pink_vampire: mmmm
02:46 AM pink_vampire: it could be crush
02:47 AM pink_vampire: all i'm thinking is some very thin layer of fiber glass
02:47 AM XXCoder: miss0r: honestly everyone has those days
02:48 AM miss0r: pink_vampire: I don't have the best of experiences with open bearings & fiberglass in the same housing, to be honnest :]
02:48 AM miss0r: XXCoder: Thats what the idiot test is for(in this case a multimeter), and I failed it hard
02:48 AM pink_vampire: https://www.fastenal.com/products/attribute/600097/7;jsessionid=047B7D5845AD9702597759F9C9A06D10.fcomjvm03
02:48 AM XXCoder: lol
02:50 AM pink_vampire: wtf is "Monel"?
02:50 AM pink_vampire: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/machining-monel-94627/
02:51 AM miss0r: pink_vampire: The problem with this washer/my design is; the thickness of the washer determines the preload on the bearings. So I will need to be able to machine it quite acurately. I need a washer that is 1.782mm +0/-0.007 to get where I need
02:51 AM pink_vampire: sound like nightmare to machine it
02:52 AM pink_vampire: mmm and what is the voltage ?
02:52 AM XXCoder: what no inocel heh
02:52 AM archivist: miss0r, maybe grind a ceramic
02:52 AM pink_vampire: or ceramic bearing!
02:53 AM SpeedEvil: Not really a nightmare.
02:53 AM pink_vampire: steel washer with ceramic bearing
02:53 AM miss0r: pink_vampire: the voltage is 0-65 volts.
02:53 AM miss0r: I thought about it. I might need to reconsider that option. But that will just make alot of the work i've done for nothing :]
02:54 AM XXCoder: miss0r: something like nylon? it needs tons of coolant but otherwise pretty easy
02:54 AM miss0r: archivist: I'll need to see what the local pusher has in stock
02:54 AM XXCoder: its also slightly compressive so might be able to set to specific tightened thickness? may make it more complex to adjust for tho.
02:54 AM SpeedEvil: flat surface, sandpaper.
02:54 AM SpeedEvil: Well, very fine abrasive.
02:54 AM SpeedEvil: Or just a toilet washer.
02:54 AM miss0r: XXCoder: I guess nylon could be done. But i'll have a hard time hitting the mark with it
02:55 AM archivist: I cannot see nylon working as it will compress
02:55 AM pink_vampire: nylon will melt over time
02:55 AM pink_vampire: also nylon + pressure will deform it
02:55 AM miss0r: archivist: It'll take con calculation, but it can be done, I managed to get it right with a teflon back-stop for the bearings
02:55 AM SpeedEvil: What is this design that requires +-3 microns?
02:56 AM pink_vampire: what is the pressure?
02:56 AM pink_vampire: or the force and the surface area?
02:56 AM miss0r: only 175kgs
02:56 AM miss0r: SpeedEvil: My horrible design :]
02:57 AM miss0r: The washer will be 31.8 OD and 25 ID
02:57 AM XXCoder: can make it adjustable?
02:58 AM miss0r: Not the way I designed this. The washer needs to be pretty dead on
02:59 AM pink_vampire: for 3 mic you need ceramic, or silicon carbide bearing, just the temperature differential, will take you more then 3 microns if you use steel bearings
02:59 AM SpeedEvil: yeah
02:59 AM SpeedEvil: Why I was wondering
03:00 AM SpeedEvil: It takes very careful design and stuff to get to where 3 microns matters
03:00 AM SpeedEvil: Are the bearings actually even specced to that level
03:00 AM pink_vampire: SpeedEvil: atomic force spindle
03:01 AM gloops: is that sawing the part youre making now pink_vampire?
03:01 AM pink_vampire: yes
03:01 AM miss0r: Thats the beauty of it. IF my math is correct, I will have a preload moving between 165 and 190 kgs, with estimated temperature difference. This is only possible with the teflon housing it is set into - It deforms a bit
03:02 AM gloops: well thats a chunk of milling removed anyway
03:02 AM pink_vampire: teflon housing??????
03:02 AM pink_vampire: for a spindle??
03:02 AM XXCoder: pink_vampire: edm spindle
03:02 AM miss0r: its a 30 rpm spindle
03:03 AM SpeedEvil: 30RPM is a bit slow for EDM. You'd normally want 150-200 or so.
03:03 AM miss0r: https://imgur.com/a/TrA9t
03:03 AM SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YxTa1AUqps
03:04 AM miss0r: SpeedEvil: Sure, but this thing is for removing broken taps
03:04 AM SpeedEvil: Interesting.
03:04 AM SpeedEvil: Why are you caring about tollerances if you're making a tap remover?
03:04 AM miss0r: long electrode, 2.5mm threads. Not much allowance in the end
03:05 AM miss0r: Overengineered; absolutly :]
03:05 AM archivist: dont need to rotate to blast taps out
03:06 AM pink_vampire: fora sinker that remove taps you dont need a spindle
03:07 AM miss0r: I know. But I did not like the results with a stationary electrode. It makes it hard to clear the end of a bottomed out tap, without retracting and resurfacing the end of the electrode
03:07 AM SpeedEvil: A couple-second 'undo' button would make machining oh so much easier.
03:07 AM XXCoder: lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgJw115vrkk
03:07 AM archivist: loads of clearance as you only need remove the tap core
03:07 AM XXCoder: SpeedEvil: first person to invent ctrl-z for reality gets all the money in world.
03:07 AM SpeedEvil: :)
03:07 AM gloops: well ill have this tea then get to work on the thing
03:08 AM SpeedEvil: XXCoder: with high frequency trading, all the money in the world in eleven milliseconds.
03:08 AM XXCoder: yep lol
03:08 AM XXCoder: buy oops ctrl-z
03:08 AM XXCoder: hmm lathe copy heh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgJw115vrkk
03:08 AM gloops: surely today must see it built, testing this week, i will not be so meek for much longer!
03:08 AM miss0r: I need to run. i will be back later
03:09 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: no no no
03:09 AM pink_vampire: we talking servos here
03:09 AM XXCoder: pink_vampire: my link wasnt related to servos :)
03:10 AM pink_vampire: i know
03:14 AM pink_vampire: i need to start give a fuck about scribe lines
03:14 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/ScpPiCH.jpg
03:14 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: ^
03:15 AM XXCoder: used perment marker to do stuff myself
03:15 AM XXCoder: like use it as spindle tool
03:15 AM SpeedEvil: +-whatever is a perfectly fine tollerance.
03:15 AM XXCoder: +whatever -0 is better
03:19 AM XXCoder: you can subtract, cannot add to metal :)
03:19 AM pink_vampire: i need metal glue gun..
03:19 AM XXCoder: or buy inciably expensive adder-subtractive machine
03:19 AM pink_vampire: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/25/54/30/255430c733681278481c487640704847.jpg
03:19 AM XXCoder: you did that?
03:19 AM pink_vampire: nooo
03:19 AM pink_vampire: i wish
03:19 AM pink_vampire: no welder here :(
03:20 AM pink_vampire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_ozoLcYnxE
03:20 AM pink_vampire: this guy own a 25K rpm spindle,
03:21 AM pink_vampire: and all the parts in the video are 3d printed!!
03:21 AM XXCoder: doesnt show much details
03:21 AM XXCoder: nice display tho!
03:21 AM pink_vampire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS9SRxbetis
03:21 AM pink_vampire: "probe"
03:22 AM XXCoder: ah yes MPCNC
03:22 AM pink_vampire: this guy is hilarious
03:23 AM XXCoder: guy speaking in spanish?
03:23 AM pink_vampire: i'm on mute
03:23 AM XXCoder: im permently on mute lol
03:24 AM pink_vampire: LOL
03:24 AM SpeedEvil: I do wish metal glue guns were a thing.
03:25 AM SpeedEvil: But pretty much impractical, for other than really low melting point non-seriously-oxidising low conductivity metals.
03:25 AM XXCoder: techinically it exists.
03:25 AM SpeedEvil: Which kinda limits them.
03:25 AM SpeedEvil: I mean, yes, it might work well for indium and gallium.
03:25 AM XXCoder: theres welder 3d printers out there now.
03:25 AM XXCoder: and also SLS (which requires baking after print but yeah)
03:25 AM SpeedEvil: yeah - that's not quite the same.
03:27 AM pink_vampire: i need good counter sink
03:27 AM pink_vampire: any recommendation?
03:27 AM XXCoder: SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEfdO4p4SFc
03:27 AM SpeedEvil: XXCoder: yes, I know of that.
03:27 AM XXCoder: only issue: $
03:28 AM SpeedEvil: XXCoder: I was meaning for the normal gluing things together use
03:28 AM XXCoder: ohh lol ok. thought you was using glue gun as in 3d printing thing lol
03:29 AM pink_vampire: what is better the counter sink with the hole or the half bit?
03:29 AM XXCoder: usually use chamfer bit at work
03:29 AM XXCoder: dunno what is "best"
03:29 AM archivist: both, use the right too for the job
03:30 AM pink_vampire: i need to get my first one
03:33 AM pink_vampire: https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/9f3c7ef6-0dde-47b0-9622-92fb2fd54ff1/svn/blu-mol-countersink-bits-5360-64_400_compressed.jpg
03:33 AM pink_vampire: this is good?
03:33 AM XXCoder: looks like wood tool?
03:34 AM pink_vampire: i have nooo idea
03:34 AM roycroft: i like the weldon style countersinks the best
03:34 AM roycroft: i have quite a few, including a number of piloted ones
03:35 AM pink_vampire: where did you got them?
03:35 AM roycroft: i used to get them at enco
03:35 AM pink_vampire: what is a piloted counter sink?
03:35 AM roycroft: now on ebay more than anywhere else
03:35 AM roycroft: it has a guide on the tip to center it in the hole
03:36 AM roycroft: weldon style countersinks are best for wood and non-ferrous metals, although they work well in mild steel
03:36 AM roycroft: i don't know that i'd use them in stainless steel or othe really hard metals
03:36 AM pink_vampire: what about steel?
03:36 AM roycroft: i just said that they work well in mild steel
03:37 AM SpeedEvil: What is best? To see your chips driven before you, and to hear the sussuration of the cutting.
03:37 AM roycroft: they're easy to sharpen with a round sharpening stone
03:38 AM MarcelineVQ: SpeedEvil: :>
03:38 AM pink_vampire: they self center? so i can run it on a trill press and clean bunch of holes
03:38 AM roycroft: if you get piloted ones
03:38 AM roycroft: iirc the smallest pilot is 1/4"
03:39 AM roycroft: so if you're drilling really small holes you can't use a piloted one
03:39 AM pink_vampire: i need it for 2mm - 5mm
03:39 AM SpeedEvil: naah - I've seen down to at least 2mm or so.
03:39 AM fragalot: or you have to make your own
03:39 AM fragalot: which is what I do
03:39 AM fragalot: piloted countersinks- that I have found - are ridiculously expensive
03:40 AM roycroft: https://www.ebay.com/itm/262521574024
03:40 AM fragalot: $40+ for something I only need once? No thanks, I'll just grind my own.
03:41 AM roycroft: i use them all the time
03:41 AM roycroft: and i pay about 1/2 that for them
03:41 AM fragalot: 1/2 would be acceptable
03:41 AM roycroft: but i've had some of mine for 30 or so years
03:41 AM roycroft: it's rare these days that i buy one
03:41 AM fragalot: I originally thought you meant the square countersink types
03:42 AM roycroft: i was talking about weldon style
03:43 AM fragalot: is that the type with the hole?
03:43 AM fragalot: if so, I love those; so much less prone to chattering in my experience
03:43 AM SpeedEvil: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sonline-Speed-Double-Countersink-Center/dp/B00X9J4KUU
03:43 AM roycroft: i have a bunch of zephyr cages too, that i got really cheap
03:43 AM roycroft: yes
03:43 AM roycroft: see my ebay link above
03:44 AM fragalot: Neat.
03:44 AM pink_vampire: SpeedEvil: it is look like the center drill
03:44 AM fragalot: pink_vampire: that's because that is a center drill
03:44 AM roycroft: https://www.ebay.com/itm/302618715084
03:44 AM pink_vampire: can i use it as a counter sink??
03:44 AM fragalot: no
03:44 AM roycroft: those are great for small holes
03:44 AM fragalot: unless if you get screws with the same angle
03:45 AM roycroft: but they're usually really expensive
03:45 AM fragalot: or if your only goal is to deburr
03:45 AM roycroft: neither of the types i mentioned are for cnc use
03:45 AM fragalot: anyway pink_vampire, do yourself a favor
03:45 AM pink_vampire: i need it to clean the hole before / after tapping
03:45 AM fragalot: try to avoid buying super cheap HSS
03:45 AM roycroft: i'm talking about countersinks used in a hand-held drill or a sensitive drill press
03:45 AM fragalot: it's cheap for a reason
03:45 AM fragalot: pink_vampire: oh in that case the center drills would be fine
03:46 AM pink_vampire: to remove the tip of them?
03:46 AM roycroft: weldon countersinks are great for deburring before tapping
03:47 AM fragalot: pink_vampire: no, if you get the right size, the tip will fit into your already drilled hole & keep the countersink part aligned
03:47 AM pink_vampire: fragalot: i will give that a try.
03:47 AM fragalot: personally, I'm with roycroft - weldon style countersinks are awesome.
03:47 AM pink_vampire: to get a set?
03:47 AM * fragalot brb
04:06 AM fragalot: I can never quite decide whether DIN874/0 straight edges are worth the additional cost for my needs or not...
04:06 AM fragalot: compared to /1
04:06 AM fragalot: my workshop/glorified garden shed isn't the most stable environment after all
04:22 AM TurBoss: morning
04:22 AM TurBoss: I break my config :D
04:22 AM TurBoss: is this correct? : "source file.hal"
04:40 AM TurBoss: ok found the issue
04:40 AM TurBoss: a typo
04:49 AM jthornton: morning
05:29 AM gloops: did you try the mirror axis TurBoss?
05:29 AM TurBoss: gloops not yet
05:30 AM gloops: hopefully ill be trying 2 motors for 1 axis this week, using joints
05:31 AM TurBoss: I managed to get something
05:31 AM TurBoss: but just the motors not real machine
05:31 AM gloops: im satisifed it will work mechanically, the only question mark is over linuxcnc
05:32 AM gloops: have modified hal and ini and get the config to load, not wired it up yet though
05:34 AM TurBoss: did a vid
05:34 AM TurBoss: long ago
05:34 AM gloops: and finally, finally, on the last day of building, ive got the z axis to be as stiff as i wanted it, im almost ready to rumble
05:34 AM gloops: a vid for 2 motors?
05:35 AM TurBoss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTwOeklq4Uc
05:36 AM TurBoss: similar to this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgNLd6A34Vo
05:36 AM TurBoss: of JT
05:36 AM TurBoss: oh I'm Jt too Jose Luis Toledano
05:36 AM jthornton: hi JT
05:36 AM gloops: hey thanks ill study that!
05:36 AM TurBoss: morninig jt
05:37 AM gloops: is that in 2.7 or 2.8 TurBoss?
05:37 AM gloops: im trying it in 2.8
05:37 AM TurBoss: 287
05:37 AM TurBoss: ooops
05:37 AM TurBoss: 28
05:38 AM gloops: excellent, if i get stuck ill look out for you lol
05:38 AM gloops: you think it should work ok then?
05:40 AM TurBoss: sure
05:40 AM TurBoss: just ping me
05:40 AM jthornton: gloops: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini-homing.html#_home_sequence
05:40 AM gloops: great, i might get to trying it tommorrow - assuming all the motors and drivers and stuff are still working, theyve been in the garage unused for 6 months
05:41 AM TurBoss: ^
05:42 AM gloops: yeah ive looked at that a few times jthornton, im not sure which way to go about it, im just thinking it will come to me when i actually sit down with the motors wired up and start working on it
05:43 AM TurBoss: I need a bit of help getting my python comp to run
05:43 AM TurBoss: :|
05:43 AM TurBoss: worked on simulator but not on real deal
05:44 AM gloops: python comp?
05:44 AM TurBoss: sim is from sources and real is from the buildbot debs
05:44 AM TurBoss: yes a mpg dro pythonn component
05:44 AM gloops: ahh, well fraid i dont know python
05:45 AM TurBoss: https://github.com/TurBoss/TurBo_MPG-DRO
05:46 AM gloops: not sure who the python people in here are, fragalot knows some he might be around
05:46 AM TurBoss: Thanks
05:47 AM TurBoss: ok found some logs
05:51 AM jthornton: what does it do?
05:51 AM TurBoss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq_bu8iFJ6A
05:53 AM jthornton: cool
05:54 AM TurBoss: I'm currently using the Json branch
05:57 AM malcom2073: TurBoss: What do you mean it doesn't run?
05:57 AM malcom2073: Are there any error messages?
05:58 AM TurBoss: Hello
05:58 AM TurBoss: I found some Issues
05:58 AM TurBoss: pyserial version mismatch
05:58 AM malcom2073: I just wrote a python comp for linuxcnc yesterday to handle a 3d printer heater controller heh
05:58 AM malcom2073: Ah alright
06:01 AM phipli: JT-Shop, chicken is all back to normal today
06:01 AM phipli: she's back to shoving the others out the way to get to the food
06:02 AM jthornton: too early for him to be out in the shop lol
06:02 AM jthornton: good to hear she is doing better
06:02 AM phipli: guess I'll have to talk to you instead :)
06:02 AM jthornton: yep
06:02 AM phipli: I'd guess she laid a tricky egg
06:03 AM jthornton: I had to move the lights on back to 4:00am the early layer laid in the coop yesterday before 4:20am when the lights came on
06:03 AM phipli: they lay in the wrong place sometimes regardless
06:04 AM phipli: once in a while ours lay in the middle of the run
06:04 AM phipli: anyhow
06:04 AM phipli: back to things
06:05 AM phipli: moving the coop today
06:05 AM phipli: laters
06:05 AM jthornton: ok
06:07 AM TurBoss: fixed
06:07 AM TurBoss: is_open not in debian wheezy pythoon
06:07 AM TurBoss: pyserial ^
06:07 AM TurBoss: Thank you all
06:24 AM malcom2073: Glad you got it working
06:44 AM fragalot: these are cool. https://www.shop.santool.de/en/machining/x-grat/deburring-tool-x-grat-1-0-1-1-mm1.html
06:44 AM fragalot: wouldn't want to pay for them, but still cool.
06:51 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: only works though if you have "room" underneath the workpiece
06:58 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: Correct, or inside of the workpiece
07:01 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: as i do 99% sheet metal on a vacuum table i dont have that luxury.
07:01 AM Loetmichel: but a countersink and som hand deburr tool work well, too
07:01 AM Loetmichel: ... unless you slip, break the tip of the deburr tool and ram it into your hand ;)
07:02 AM fragalot: I'm more thinking the inside of manifolds
07:02 AM Loetmichel: ... result: (caution, some blood) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16188&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
07:03 AM fragalot: bet you felt that for a while
07:04 AM Loetmichel: a while. the mess on the shop floor was the bigger issue thoug
07:04 AM Loetmichel: took me 2 hours to clean that up when i returned to wirk after getting some stitches in the hospital ;)
07:04 AM fragalot: easy fix, cover that in chips and pretend it's fine
07:04 AM fragalot: :P
07:04 AM Loetmichel: s/wirk/work
07:05 AM Loetmichel: and i assure you: blood and PVC flooring mix all to well. it was quite a bit of work to get it out of the scratches
07:06 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15341&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- thats my workdesk... no chips there.
07:06 AM fragalot: I can imagine
07:06 AM Loetmichel: The CNC mill is in a seperate room
07:08 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16574 <- whole desk
07:09 AM Loetmichel: the metal workshop is right behind the camera position
07:09 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16369&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- 180° view. workshop is behind me ;)
07:45 AM fragalot: I like the cable rack
07:46 AM Loetmichel: cable rack?
07:46 AM fragalot: in your 1st picture
07:46 AM Loetmichel: ah, on the wall of the measurement chamber?
07:46 AM fragalot: yup
07:46 AM fragalot: I think
07:47 AM Loetmichel: we do EMI measurements. so we need lots of different cables to connect the IT stuff to the outside while measuring
07:47 AM Loetmichel: the rack is just a "temporary convenience storage" for them
07:48 AM fragalot: I do love ebay delivery estimates
07:48 AM fragalot: "somewhere between 14th of february, and 27th of march"
07:56 AM Tom_L: Loetmichel you're way too orgainzed
07:56 AM Tom_L: :)
07:57 AM Loetmichel: Tom_L: you think?
07:57 AM Loetmichel: :-)
07:57 AM Tom_L: yeah i don't see how you can find anything in all that cleanliness
07:58 AM Loetmichel: lets just say that "MAAAN, has anyone seen [some tool i need]?" is an often heard call from me ;)
07:58 AM Tom_L: kinda jealous of the setup
07:58 AM Loetmichel: followed by "nevermind, found it on my desk!"
07:59 AM Loetmichel: ... i CAN do clean sometimes though... as seen on the "whole desk" picture
08:01 AM fragalot: my shed has short spurts of tidyness in between projects
08:01 AM Tom_L: the end is in sight for finishing my mill
08:01 AM fragalot: I find it frustrating to work in a mess where you constantly trip over things
08:03 AM Tom_L: located the coolant mister last night. need to grab a couple longer screws today: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Mister1.jpg
08:04 AM phipli: hum. Loetmichel is that your stk500?
08:04 AM Loetmichel: phipli: where?
08:04 AM fragalot: Tom_L: looking fantastic :-)
08:04 AM phipli: suggested picture from one of your links : http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=766
08:04 AM Loetmichel: yes, it is
08:04 AM Loetmichel: my private one though
08:05 AM phipli: I got one when they started getting cheaper so that I had a way of doing parallel programming from USB
08:05 AM phipli: and the box is cool
08:07 AM Tom_L: i should find an air solonoid for the mister
08:07 AM phipli: https://ssli.ebayimg.com/images/g/iLIAAOSwMmBVw64m/s-l1600.jpg
08:08 AM fragalot: Tom_L: so have you tried that mister yet?
08:08 AM Tom_L: no liquid yet but i ran air to it
08:09 AM fragalot: let me know when you've used it then :P
08:09 AM Tom_L: the fluid tube runs clear up to the tip inside the snake pipe
08:11 AM fragalot: i'm working on te tedious task of splitting up all of the parts of my cad model in fusion360
08:11 AM fragalot: because apparently different components != different components
08:11 AM fragalot: >.>
08:12 AM fragalot: on a similar note, is anyone (EU) interested in a 400mm long linear rail & ballscrew set? I may get a longer set for Z
08:15 AM IchGucksLive: hi
08:15 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot:
08:15 AM fragalot: hey
08:15 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive:
08:15 AM IchGucksLive: 400mm gives you a max of 210mm travel
08:16 AM fragalot: it's a bit short for my liking
08:16 AM IchGucksLive: what the hall are you going to do
08:16 AM IchGucksLive: 175 is the way you shoudt go
08:16 AM fragalot: I want to be able to machine things either directly on the table, or in a vise
08:16 AM IchGucksLive: build your mashine with flezible z Stands
08:16 AM fragalot: and the vise I have is already 110mm high
08:17 AM IchGucksLive: you will not travel at WORK more then 150mm
08:17 AM IchGucksLive: then build your table in stand alone from frame
08:17 AM fragalot: no, that is true, but I also don't really want to tram the head every time I want to change setups
08:17 AM IchGucksLive: so Z is flexible
08:17 AM fragalot: so a thick spacer block?
08:20 AM IchGucksLive: hi kucharski
08:20 AM dave__ is now known as gloops^
08:20 AM fragalot_: server split?
08:21 AM gloops^: last few bits taking an eternity, tools lost all over, just snapped last 3mm bit i can find
08:21 AM IchGucksLive: im searching i got a flexible layout as lots of FREAKS like you
08:21 AM fragalot_ is now known as fragalot
08:21 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: :P
08:21 AM Tom_L: gloops^, having fun yet??
08:21 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: xD
08:21 AM gloops^: Tom nah, close to trying the motors, just last bits to sort
08:22 AM gloops^: are you cutting now Tom?
08:22 AM IchGucksLive: its a standard HARD 175 gantry z tthas has side suport for 500mm parts
08:22 AM Tom_L: got my spindle pointing up and down now
08:22 AM Tom_L: real close
08:22 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: i'm still thinking about whether the gantry style base is preferable, or if I should go for a stubby column style instead
08:23 AM gloops^: im probably leaving quite a few things to re-visit later, just trying to get it set to test now
08:23 AM Tom_L: you may never revisit them
08:23 AM IchGucksLive: fragalot: with gantry yoiu got z space till earth center
08:23 AM Tom_L: do it now
08:23 AM IchGucksLive: the HEAVIEST Parts are livtet in 100mm steps
08:24 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: along X, yes, but you can't go wide along Y; with a column mill you can't go in Y, but you can go in X
08:24 AM gloops^: i think it might spur me on to see it moving heh, not big things, like putting 2 grub screws in pulleys - just about to do it, last bit snapped, do i fit the pulleys with 1 screw or wait
08:24 AM IchGucksLive: parts are someot non syoare
08:24 AM IchGucksLive: sqare
08:24 AM fragalot: IchGucksLive: the main reason i'm wondering, is that with a column, all of the carriages are normally directly under the load; with a gantry if your head is in the center, there may be more "flex" in the whole system
08:25 AM fragalot: I may be wrong
08:25 AM JT-Shop: make a small spot on the shaft with the grub screw then take it off and file a small flat
08:25 AM IchGucksLive: ive been yesterday around a JOBS 14x6meter
08:25 AM IchGucksLive: with 0,1mm acurathy they clame
08:26 AM IchGucksLive: ok im off
08:26 AM gloops^: JT i did that with one, then put it on a twin shaft motor, put one end of shaft in vice and worked the pulley, eventually got a bit of play - i was probably puttingg way more pressure on than it would ever get on the machine though heh
08:26 AM slipalong: Anyone advise me on what size compressor for a mist spray
08:27 AM slipalong: just a cheap Chinese one of ebay
08:27 AM Tom_L: slipalong, mine's an 80 gal 5hp but that may be a bit of overkill for that
08:28 AM Tom_L: one of those portable jobsite ones would do
08:28 AM gloops^: slipalong they will do it, you can get good pressure, but slower to build it up, and smaller tank - once the tank is empty youre out of mist till it builds up again
08:28 AM slipalong: Im looking a 50Ltr 3Hp
08:29 AM fragalot: mine's a (true) 3hp jobsite one with a tiny tank as I hate waiting for it to come up to pressure as I typically only need a short burst of air
08:29 AM fragalot: gloops^: only if your regulators aren't set up right
08:29 AM gloops^: i havent used mist but i cant see it using that much?
08:29 AM slipalong: so bigger tank it worth having
08:29 AM fragalot: my tank builds to 10bar, air outlet is at 6,5 bar
08:29 AM Tom_L: believe it or not when i was doing HVLP spraying with it, mine struggled to keep up
08:29 AM fragalot: compressor switches on at 7bar
08:30 AM fragalot: http://s3.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/CNC/GermanEGCNC/5805_110778858777_cnc_fraese_017.jpg
08:30 AM slipalong: I think I have see 2bar for the mist spray
08:30 AM fragalot: I quite like this cute little one
08:31 AM gloops^: ive never blown mine out but i imagine a small one youre gonna be stopping if blowing a lot of air off
08:31 AM gloops^: 3hp should walk it for mist surely
08:31 AM Tom_L: fragalot, stick that spindle on mine
08:31 AM fragalot: Tom_L: :D
08:32 AM slipalong: Any bigger than 3Hp and you seem to need 2 phase power
08:32 AM slipalong: 3 phase
08:32 AM fragalot: ^
08:32 AM Tom_L: naw
08:32 AM Tom_L: mine is 220v though
08:32 AM slipalong: Im in the uk so it about the same
08:33 AM fragalot: the UK is limited to just under 4hp I believe with your 13A fuses
08:33 AM fragalot: here I should be able to run 6,5 on a standard 240V outlet
08:33 AM Tom_L: those cheap portable ones won't last near as long as a good one
08:34 AM gloops^: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/COBRA-AIR-TOOL-POWERFUL-COMPRESSOR-5-7-CFM-2-HP-115PSI-S-10L-LITER/222651716798? ive sprayed furniture with stuff like this, you just have to wait for the pressure if youre using constantly
08:34 AM slipalong: Yo can put an industrial type 16A outlet on in the UK
08:34 AM gloops^: they dont last no, plastic valves
08:34 AM gloops^: also noisy
08:34 AM phipli: there is an alternative round pin 15A socket in the uk
08:35 AM slipalong: Im looking to spend 120 - 160 GBP
08:36 AM gloops^: and remember to drain the tank
08:36 AM slipalong: Anyone see a good tutorial on HAL Im trying to modify PathPilot to drive my BF30 mill, but it bending my head.
08:36 AM slipalong: Need to get a better understanding
09:01 AM enleth: marco_13: the hell you want with that DCC
09:01 AM fragalot: marco's gone, enleth
09:01 AM fragalot: I'm sorry :<
09:02 AM enleth: well he was sending DCC requests, probably clicking random buttons in the IRC client
09:02 AM fragalot: lol
09:04 AM enleth: and I've got join/part messages muted completelu
09:04 AM enleth: *y
09:05 AM fragalot: but you're missing out on like 90% of the content here
09:07 AM jesseg: LOL..
09:09 AM Tom_L: slipalong, http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/hal/intro.html
09:09 AM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/hal/basic-hal.html
09:10 AM phipli: anyone got thoughts on what I should do with the shield on a usb micro socket?
09:10 AM phipli: on the slave end - should it be connected to gnd? floating? doesn't matter?
09:10 AM Tom_L: ground it
09:10 AM slipalong: Thanks Tom. Ive read these, but still confused. Im actually a programmer and its still confusing me
09:11 AM Tom_L: you can't learn to swim until you get in the water
09:11 AM phipli: Tom_L, what is the driving logic for grounding it at the device end? (helps me remember)
09:12 AM Tom_L: if for no other reason it's the first contact with the device. sorta like when you solder static sensitive components?
09:13 AM phipli: cheers
09:13 AM fragalot: https://www.ti.com/sc/docs/apps/msp/intrface/usb/emitest.pdf
09:14 AM fragalot: The shell should be provided with a low impedance connection to signal ground and, in cases where
09:14 AM phipli: heh
09:14 AM fragalot: a metal chassis is present, a means of accepting a metal EMI gasket clip.
09:14 AM phipli: link to an intel document on a ti website? :)
09:14 AM Tom_L: phipli, i made hundreds of these and never thought twice about grounding the socket: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
09:14 AM fragalot: :-)
09:14 AM slipalong: Yes I was thinking of building a 3 axis mill config from scratch. I find I learn easier a little at a time
09:14 AM phipli: there won't be a metal enclosure
09:15 AM phipli: Tom_L, nice case
09:15 AM Tom_L: slipalong, i'd start from a template and mod it
09:15 AM Tom_L: thanks
09:15 AM Tom_L: milled those on my sherline :)
09:15 AM phipli: standard box milled?
09:16 AM Tom_L: yeah, hammond enclosures
09:16 AM phipli: I really struggle to find good, cheap, enclosures
09:16 AM Tom_L: ^^
09:16 AM Tom_L: has quite a few
09:16 AM Tom_L: dk sells em too
09:16 AM phipli: yeah - I use the hammond
09:17 AM phipli: http://www.hammondmfg.com/1591icegrp.jpg
09:17 AM Tom_L: they sent me free samples when i started that project
09:17 AM holzjunkie: hallo allerseits
09:17 AM phipli: personal challenge is to fit everything I can into the top one of those
09:17 AM Rab: Tom_L, I commend you for using LUFA with standards-compliant USB AVR rather than implementing some V-USB horror like most of the third-party ISPs.
09:17 AM phipli: it is about 40x80mm?
09:17 AM Tom_L: haha
09:17 AM Tom_L: phipli, the one you linked is a little bigger
09:18 AM Tom_L: i think
09:18 AM phipli: the best thing about V-USB is that if you plan ahead, you can build the programmer into the board itself
09:18 AM Tom_L: and mine they make in 2 heights
09:18 AM Tom_L: iirc
09:18 AM phipli: but I'm currently doing a layout with a CH340
09:18 AM phipli: because I'm behaving for once
09:18 AM phipli: Tom_L, yeah - but I was using protoboard in my defence :)
09:19 AM Tom_L: i got a sack full if you need some
09:20 AM phipli: protoboard? I have a stockpile
09:20 AM phipli: enough for me
09:20 AM Tom_L: no, boxes
09:20 AM Tom_L: https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=1551FTBU%20
09:21 AM Tom_L: i also like hammond because they supply models
09:21 AM Rab: I love the diecast Hammond enclosures, but the draft angle really sucks for machining. My friend has a vise permanently set at 1.5 degrees or whatever it is: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/rabbot/image/boxclamp.jpg
09:21 AM phipli: ooooh. your board does PDI
09:21 AM phipli: I have an xmega I can't program
09:21 AM Tom_L: yeah i helped dean get that goin
09:22 AM phipli: heh
09:22 AM Tom_L: so he let me 'commercially' use lufa free
09:22 AM Tom_L: and included my programmer code as an example in his download
09:22 AM phipli: I got an olimex programmer, but the firmware was out of date
09:22 AM Tom_L: we've both moved on...
09:23 AM phipli: and I couldn't update it - because I don't windows and it wouldn't let me
09:23 AM phipli: I should pinch my girlfriends windows laptop and update it
09:23 AM Tom_L: i think studio 4 may have been the last one mine would work on
09:23 AM Tom_L: that and avrdude
09:23 AM Tom_L: of course
09:24 AM Tom_L: it may have worked on 5
09:24 AM phipli: did you ever have any issues with large programs with your programmer?
09:24 AM Tom_L: no
09:24 AM phipli: say if you programmed a atmega1284
09:24 AM Tom_L: had very few issues at all really
09:24 AM phipli: some of the firmwares get... sulky if you load a huge program
09:25 AM Tom_L: the difference is this is hardware USB
09:25 AM Tom_L: not bitbanged
09:25 AM Tom_L: you can get just about any "U" chip and use his software
09:26 AM phipli: I have a sample of a AVR with hardware USB
09:26 AM phipli: but I've not done anything with it yet
09:26 AM Tom_L: i may or may not have a couple: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/new_batch/USB_chips.jpg
09:27 AM phipli: current project is my first tqfp project
09:27 AM phipli: testing how fine my mill can go
09:27 AM Tom_L: they're easy to solder
09:27 AM phipli: and going to get some boards made
09:27 AM phipli: I've soldered TQFP, just not my own
09:27 AM Tom_L: i'd go the fab route personally
09:28 AM Tom_L: they're cheap enough
09:28 AM phipli: Tom_L : one or two chips yes :)
09:28 AM Tom_L: unless i'm testing something
09:28 AM phipli: Tom_L, yeah, fab is really cheap - I'm just taking baby steps
09:28 AM Tom_L: i did ~200 of those by hand
09:28 AM Tom_L: then i made my toaster oven
09:29 AM phipli: big lesson with surface mount was how much difference flux makes
09:29 AM Tom_L: absolutely
09:29 AM Tom_L: i use a pen
09:29 AM phipli: I have something like a tipex pot
09:29 AM phipli: pot with a brush in the lid
09:30 AM Tom_L: yeah, mine woked good with the xmegas
09:31 AM Tom_L: and the attiny 10 series
09:31 AM Tom_L: ISP, PDI and TPI
09:31 AM phipli: what is the best way of setting the fuses on a SMD AVR without a crystal?
09:31 AM phipli: I half remember an AVRDude flag...
09:31 AM Tom_L: they all have internal osc
09:32 AM phipli: -C or -B...
09:32 AM phipli: yeah, but the factory settings are for external crystal
09:32 AM Tom_L: no
09:32 AM Tom_L: internal
09:32 AM phipli: really?
09:32 AM phipli: interesting
09:32 AM phipli: I've had issues
09:32 AM Tom_L: the lowest clock setting too
09:32 AM phipli: that is probably it then
09:32 AM Tom_L: unless someone has been in it already
09:33 AM Tom_L: ckdiv8 is usually set
09:33 AM phipli: I can program them, but I have to slow AVRDude down
09:33 AM Tom_L: if it has one
09:33 AM phipli: so 1mhz?
09:33 AM Tom_L: 1 or 2 depending on the chip
09:33 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/using_avrdude_index.php
09:33 AM Tom_L: there's the lines for various programming stuff
09:34 AM Tom_L: fuses etc
09:34 AM phipli: ta
09:35 AM Rab: 1) Can you communicate with the chip through ISP? 2) What is the SPI fuse bit set to? 3) That is what 'ON' is.
09:35 AM Rab: Gold, thanks, saving.
09:35 AM phipli: my main thought was whether it would just be easier to get one of those cage programmer things that you drop the un-soldered chip into
09:36 AM Tom_L: haha... just a sec
09:36 AM fragalot: phipli: my boss managed to fail programming a chip with one of those once
09:36 AM fragalot: took him half a day to work out he rotated the chip 90° and forced it in
09:36 AM phipli: heh
09:36 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/attiny2313/attiny3.jpg
09:37 AM Tom_L: i ended up holding those on with my finger
09:37 AM phipli: Tom_L, cheat :)
09:37 AM phipli: I was thinking of making a 2x3 pogo-pin thingy
09:37 AM phipli: and just holding it on pads
09:37 AM Rab: phipli, I made one of those, works great.
09:37 AM Tom_L: those were bitbanged usb
09:38 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/attiny2313/usbtiny_index.php
09:38 AM Tom_L: i learned from that one
09:38 AM Rab: I put an unpopulated ISP header on everything. For production PCBs, I have a jig which cradles the board and positions the pogo assembly.
09:38 AM phipli: I need to get some more 0.1uF and 22pF caps
09:39 AM fragalot: Tom_L: I've done worse than that,...
09:40 AM fragalot: "how to re-flash a locked BIOS chip 101": https://photos.app.goo.gl/tZhlfpIKC8k1E8mg2
09:40 AM fragalot: I think your method would have been nicer
09:40 AM malcom2073: There is a method of ofsetting the througholes, so when you push the connector in, it holds and makes contact, so you don't have to solder it to program
09:40 AM malcom2073: I've used that before, it was fairly nice
09:40 AM Tom_L: i'm still a fan of etching over milling
09:41 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/tiny/tinyboard1.jpg
09:41 AM Tom_L: 3 traces under a sot23-6
09:41 AM fragalot: same
09:41 AM malcom2073: Nice
09:41 AM fragalot: I've found a really cheap way to etch too
09:41 AM Tom_L: toner transfer
09:41 AM fragalot: cheaper
09:41 AM fragalot: and less dificult to get right
09:41 AM fragalot: bog standard printer paper and an inkjet
09:41 AM fragalot: print your circuit
09:41 AM fragalot: oil your board with light machine oil
09:42 AM fragalot: put the paper on and watch it go transparent whilst the traces get darker
09:42 AM fragalot: blast with UV and proceed as you would normally
09:42 AM fragalot: works well down to 0.25mm in my experience
09:42 AM Tom_L: never tried that
09:42 AM Tom_L: i've done all sorts of papers though
09:42 AM fragalot: and the best part is that i've not managed to over-expose
09:42 AM phipli: Tom_L, yeah - I've lived it too many rented houses - worried about the etch chemicals
09:42 AM phipli: done this with the mill : http://elephantandchicken.co.uk/projects/LEDboard0.jpg
09:43 AM Tom_L: the FR4 dust is just as bad
09:43 AM fragalot: phipli: etch with HCl & H2O2 - slower than ferric chloride, but none of the mess
09:43 AM fragalot: and almost infinitely reusable
09:43 AM Tom_L: ammonium persulphate
09:43 AM Tom_L: or sodium persulphate
09:43 AM Tom_L: one works better than the other
09:44 AM Tom_L: i forget which
09:44 AM Tom_L: one will remove sharpie
09:44 AM fragalot: HCl is easier to get from pretty much any shop
09:45 AM Tom_L: phipli, just consider it drain cleaner :D
09:45 AM phipli: heh
09:45 AM JT-Shop: nice
09:46 AM Rab: There are steps you can take to minimize etchant usage, too. Some people just use a dampened sponge.
09:48 AM Tom_L: phipli, any problems with stringy copper?
09:48 AM phipli: hum?
09:48 AM phipli: in what sense?
09:48 AM Tom_L: milling boards
09:48 AM phipli: I map the surface and tape it down
09:48 AM Tom_L: copper is kinda stringy when you mill it
09:48 AM phipli: seems to work as long as I'm careful
09:48 AM phipli: tool is 0.2mm tip, with a slight taper
09:49 AM Tom_L: you must spin it a bazillion rpm
09:49 AM phipli: 5->6k I think....
09:49 AM phipli: not done it in a couple of months after I had some software issues...
09:49 AM Tom_L: that's not that much really
09:49 AM phipli: and "update" broke things
09:50 AM phipli: Tom_L, I'm not saying it is fast...
09:50 AM phipli: :)
09:50 AM Tom_L: hah
09:50 AM Tom_L: i bet not
09:50 AM phipli: takes about an hour to mill 70x90mm board
09:51 AM phipli: but compared to strip board - it opened up all sorts of new components etc.
09:51 AM Tom_L: yep
09:51 AM Tom_L: no more breadboarding with thru hole
09:52 AM Rab: Being able to drill and slot mill programatically is a game changer.
09:52 AM phipli: the first time I did the drilling automatically it was like witchcraft
09:53 AM Rab: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/lpkf/contours.jpg
09:53 AM jesseg: lol agreed phipli
09:53 AM jesseg: cutting board out automatically is pretty sweet too
09:53 AM Tom_L: nice one rab
09:54 AM phipli: is that cat the mounting jig for the machine?
09:54 AM jesseg: Rab, is that just a test board? it looks like traces run across slots..
09:54 AM Tom_L: i assumed so
09:54 AM phipli: jesseg, perhaps the cat moved?
09:54 AM jesseg: LOL
09:54 AM fragalot: first time I tried drilling a pcb on my CNC mill I realized just how shit the mill was
09:54 AM fragalot: :P
09:55 AM Rab: jesseg, no, it's a working board. Poor detail in the photo.
09:55 AM Tom_L: i never tried it again on my sherline
09:55 AM Rab: And components go right up to the board edge.
09:56 AM fragalot: the edge is bad, m'kay
09:56 AM jesseg: Rab, but look at the leftmost subpanel.. It sure looks like a trace goes right across the divide...
09:57 AM fragalot: jesseg: I'm sure that when Rab says that they're functional boards, that they actually are functional
09:57 AM fragalot: for all you know that is just a poorly designed spark gap
09:57 AM jesseg: fragalot, of course it's just a routing technique I am not smart enough to understand :D
09:57 AM phipli: 32kV power supply and it would probably jump that gap
09:58 AM fragalot: phipli: I'd imagine it would jump to the ground plane first, lol
09:58 AM Rab: jesseg, you're right, sorry! I thought I had only made one, that was fine, but that must have been a scratch board.
09:58 AM jesseg: Rab, oh no problem, I just like things to make sense because I love to learn! :D
09:58 AM phipli: fragalot, I forget my volts per mm and am too lazy to look up the insulating properties of air :)
09:59 AM fragalot: phipli: around 1000V/mm
09:59 AM phipli: :)
10:02 AM jesseg: great cat you have there Rab! Looks like it's real friendly and puts up with just about anything related to building things :D
10:03 AM Rab: jesseg, thanks, she is very tolerant.
10:04 AM Rab: I must've been furious when the tool went that direction, not sure what happened...I used Eagle and LPKF software, occasional weird artifacts resulting from that combination.
10:04 AM XXCoder: Rab: heh cats tend to ignore that up to a point
10:05 AM XXCoder: saw a cat with bunch of stuff on it and still sleeping
10:06 AM jthornton: some of the menu choices in linux mate are funny Places does not have Internet as a selection but Applications does...
10:07 AM XXCoder: jt heh linux distros have fun selection
10:07 AM XXCoder: term is sometimes in application, sometimes in system
10:08 AM jthornton: at least with mate you can change the menus... xfce you can't
10:08 AM XXCoder: xfce mint here :)
10:09 AM fragalot: jthornton: sure you can
10:10 AM jthornton: yea but it ain't point and click
10:10 AM fragalot: well.. no.
10:11 AM fragalot: I have just realized I'm an idiot :-)
10:11 AM fragalot: not sure why I thought it was a good idea to buy the same length ballscrews as rails.. now this motor is going to stick out of the frame >.>
10:13 AM XXCoder: upgrade it to bigger frame
10:13 AM XXCoder: then realize ballscrews is too small and uopgrade em ;)
10:13 AM fragalot: xD
10:13 AM fragalot: or I could set up a tricky zero-backlash 90° drive system
10:14 AM phipli: this is useful : https://i.stack.imgur.com/pZnla.jpg
10:23 AM jesseg: Interesting... I guess if the unregualted power in goes higher than 6.6v, it cuts power to the USB port?
10:24 AM jesseg: or maybe its if it is being USB powered then the fet turns on
10:24 AM phipli: It is implementing the power source selection... not sure if it is exactly the same as on an uno
10:25 AM phipli: but on the Uno it prioritises the barrel I understand
10:25 AM phipli: atm I'm pinching the CH340g usage
10:25 AM phipli: because they're a really cheap USB to UART
10:26 AM Jymmm: pinching?
10:26 AM jesseg: yeah looks like that's what it does here, it disconnects the USB power when the barrel goes above 6.6v
10:26 AM phipli: copying
10:26 AM phipli: jesseg, is PT1 a polyfuse?
10:27 AM jesseg: phipli, probably.. I don't know but polyfuses are defacto on USB 5v line
10:27 AM Jymmm: phipli: I came in the middle of the conversation, just dont use the uart pwr for other things, better to use an external 5V source
10:27 AM jesseg: that's why usb was invented was to use poylfuses :P
10:28 AM jesseg: poly
10:28 AM phipli: Jymmm, was going to use the USB 5v
10:28 AM Jymmm: phipli: Why not the PC's PS 5V rail instead?
10:28 AM Jymmm: it's a red wire =)
10:28 AM jesseg: or even the PC's 12v rail into the barrel connector :P
10:29 AM jesseg: cleaner local regulation that way
10:29 AM phipli: because then I'd need two cables for a tiny box?
10:29 AM jesseg: lol true
10:29 AM Jymmm: phipli: and your point is?
10:29 AM jesseg: besides, the USB 5v just feeds off the PC's 5v rail anyway, along with its own PTC fuse
10:29 AM phipli: that I'd have to buy two cables?
10:29 AM Jymmm: phipli: it's a cable, dont give yourself more headaches than needed =)
10:30 AM phipli: I wasn't having any 5v power issues a moment ago - I was just interested in that circuit
10:30 AM phipli: I'm not reproducing the whole thing
10:30 AM Jymmm: ah, nm then =)
10:30 AM phipli: I'm just double checking what other people have done with the ch340 - getting ideas
10:30 AM phipli: I'd have not thought to put the 1k resistors in the tx / rx if I hadn't looked
10:31 AM phipli: would have worked, but this is better :)
10:31 AM XXCoder: or just buy dc-dc so you dont have to use usb lol
10:31 AM phipli: I'm using the data
10:31 AM holzjunkie: hallo allerseits,
10:31 AM holzjunkie: irgendwer aus dem deutschsprachigem raum hier ????
10:32 AM fragalot: holzjunkie: ask your question and those that are able will reply.
10:34 AM holzjunkie: I´ve no direct question now. I retrofit an Gildemeister nef480 from 1980 and there are a lot of questions and my biggest problem is my realy bad english
10:37 AM phipli: Jymmm, https://ibb.co/iR4ibw
10:37 AM phipli: that is what I'm doing atm
10:37 AM fragalot: holzjunkie: ask your questions in german if you ahve to then :-) There are quite a lot of german speaking people on here.
10:37 AM phipli: forgive the mess
10:41 AM Jymmm: phipli: You trying to get TTL from your phone?
10:43 AM phipli: no?
10:43 AM phipli: ignore the "OTG" bit
10:43 AM phipli: it is just the only usb micro socket in the library
10:44 AM phipli: doesn't make any difference - you just ignore the ID pin
11:04 AM Jymmm: phipli: Ah ok.
11:37 AM gloops^: why did i even want a cnc router, no idea it was so long ago when thought of it
11:37 AM phipli: to make office name tags?
11:38 AM gloops^: yes and yoda bread boards
11:38 AM gloops^: that was it
11:40 AM Rab: Yoda bread boards??
11:40 AM Rab: Like this? https://img.etsystatic.com/il/df17b2/750301296/il_570xN.750301296_k7e3.jpg
11:40 AM XXCoder: fancy signs!
11:41 AM gloops^: nice one Rab, i might go back out for another hour now
11:41 AM Rab: That one looks lasered.
11:42 AM gloops^: if i get this going archivist could make clock movements and faces and i could make the star wars wooden casings
11:43 AM Rab: I wanted a CNC router to make synthesizer faceplates. Now I use it for work, which keeps me too busy for synth-diy. :(
11:43 AM gloops^: youve got a router then Rab?
11:43 AM Rab: gloops^, affirmative.
11:44 AM gloops^: diy? big one? any pics
11:44 AM Rab: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/rabbot/index.html http://reboots.g-cipher.net/spindle/index.html
11:44 AM phipli: Rab : My brother makes synth faceplates on his
11:44 AM phipli: Rab : http://nervoussquirrel.com/modular.html
11:45 AM Rab: Pretty ghetto, but it works very well. I got very lucky with alignment, 'cause I wasn't very rigorous during construction.
11:45 AM Rab: phipli, oh, wow!
11:46 AM Rab: phipli, incredible work. Love the random voltage generator and the scope module.
11:46 AM gloops^: that looks sound, what do you make with it?
11:46 AM Rab: This was my small effort: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/drums/index.html
11:47 AM gloops^: phipli thats pretty big stuff
11:47 AM phipli: the faceplates are made of aluminium
11:48 AM fragalot: I think i'm getting the hang of Fusion360
11:48 AM phipli: older ones have paper glued on and are hand made, newer modules, he's been buying some kind of aluminium that has a coating on it
11:48 AM fragalot: it basically boils down to "DO NOT CREATE PARTS IN-PLACE"
11:48 AM phipli: cuts through the coating
11:49 AM Rab: phipli, yeah, I've been thinking of buying pre-anodized plate from eBay and using diamond drag tool.
11:49 AM gloops^: you can glue anodised alu to other things, straight ally is not so easy to stick
11:50 AM miss0r: Kids sometimes... I swear to you, if my son had uttered a word sounding even remotely latin, I would've called an exorcist!
11:50 AM Rab: I wanted to engrave and anodize titanium. That's one long-term goal, to have a small router rigid and powerful enough to maintain the feed rate you need to go after Ti.
11:50 AM Rab: Plate isn't too expensive from eBay.
11:51 AM phipli: Rab : http://musicfromouterspace.com/
11:52 AM phipli: lots of stuff available there
11:52 AM gloops^: im hoping i can cut ally, i dont think sheet will be a problem, will have to see, in fact im hoping i can just cut something, anything at this point lol
11:53 AM fragalot: what scares me most about Ti isn't the feed rate; it's the heaps of chips from hell just looking to combust if you look at them funny
11:53 AM fragalot: gloops^: I found a video of someone machining steel with a lesser router than yours using HSM pathing
11:53 AM Rab: gloops^, it's just a question of getting speed/feed dialed in for your tooling. The cheap/common 6061 can get gummy fast. Start with very light passes, reasonably high feed rate.
11:53 AM gloops^: fragalot yeah mild steel sheet maybe
11:54 AM fragalot: gloops^: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sgq9gdalFr4
11:54 AM fragalot: gloops^: Yeah.
11:55 AM Rab: And I'm obsessed with trying to do it dry, but any kind of coolant would probably help a lot...spritzing with kerosene, or even compressed air.
11:55 AM gloops^: if i press the tool in the spindle now the spindle/tool flex before the z, there is some small movement still though
11:56 AM gloops^: sure thats steel fragalot
11:56 AM fragalot: looks like it
11:57 AM fragalot: and the title says it is
11:57 AM fragalot: therefore, I would say that that is indeed at least mild steel.
11:57 AM fragalot: gloops^: there are 3 "pillars" in CNC, and they are all equally important, but each can help take up the slack if one of them is a bit shite
11:58 AM gloops^: well i dont expect to cut steel
11:58 AM fragalot: workholding, tool quality, pathing
11:58 AM fragalot: shit workholding (this includes how rigid your machine is), use a good tool & take little nibbles
11:59 AM XXCoder: Rab: alum? wd40 could do uit
11:59 AM XXCoder: ah steel. dunno if wd40 could do that lol
12:00 PM gloops^: well im gonna load the custom hal/ini files ready tonight, maybe get some motion tommorrow or very soon
12:00 PM gloops^: workholding for router - screw job to bed
12:01 PM gloops^: first path, mark waste areas with spots for screwing, stop, get some screws in
12:03 PM IchGucksLive: hi
12:04 PM fragalot: hey IchGucksLive
12:05 PM fragalot: http://a360.co/2DH3TCN -- this takes sooo long in f360 >.< (only just finished the "loose" assembly of the Z)
12:07 PM gloops^: cant see it
12:07 PM fragalot: what's the error message?
12:07 PM gloops^: no its taking me into fusion, can see all the file names etc, but no images
12:08 PM gregcnc: that's a lot of frame for the workspace, what is it made of?
12:08 PM fragalot: gregcnc: E/G
12:10 PM gloops^: i was going to learn fusion but ill carry on with blender when i get time, blender is more suited to artsy 3d
12:11 PM fragalot: it is
12:14 PM IchGucksLive: fragalot: use frecad im fast
12:14 PM fragalot: http://a360.co/2nkCWxK
12:15 PM fragalot: IchGucksLive: last I tried freecad did not yet support assemblies properly, or has that changed since last week?
12:15 PM IchGucksLive: we are in the final stage to go for 0,17
12:16 PM IchGucksLive: you will be impressed
12:16 PM fragalot: I look forward to it, you've hyped me up :-)
12:16 PM gloops^: freecad is very likeable
12:16 PM gloops^: except when the sketch icon turns yellow
12:17 PM fragalot: gloops^: lol
12:18 PM fragalot: that's the same in any CAD system that I have ever used
12:18 PM fragalot: some are better than others to recover
12:18 PM gloops^: i actually drew a very nice little mold in freecad, i was really getting the hang of it, but lost touch now
12:19 PM fragalot: anyway, I have a Z clearance of 204mm, and a travel of just shy of 196mm
12:19 PM fragalot: I'm happy with that.
12:20 PM gloops^: well if youre happy with it thats that then
12:22 PM fragalot: :-)
12:24 PM gregcnc: start with something like this https://www.ebay.com/332205725010
12:24 PM fragalot: total weight, ~450kg
12:27 PM fragalot: gregcnc: 404 page
12:27 PM gregcnc: https://www.ebay.com/itm/332205725010
12:28 PM fragalot: I already have all the rails & motors etc, just need the frame
12:28 PM fragalot: why can't you find me one of those in belgium
12:28 PM fragalot: lol
12:30 PM gloops^: video inspection system?
12:31 PM gloops^: that looks pretty hefty just to look at something
12:31 PM fragalot: gloops^: it basically takes pictures, and references that with a pre-taught model of what is acceptable
12:31 PM fragalot: has to be rigid if you want to keep tight tolerances, gloops^
12:31 PM gloops^: ok..it takes pictures..and what?
12:32 PM gregcnc: optical inspection
12:32 PM gregcnc: pcb, measurements, whatever
12:32 PM gloops^: hmm i see
12:32 PM gregcnc: obvisous software does most of the work
12:33 PM gregcnc: these days so mcuh relies on optical inspection and it's faster than fast
12:34 PM gloops^: so we take a specific viewpoint, say x10,y20,z15
12:34 PM gloops^: we have an image of what we should be seeing from that point, generated by the software
12:34 PM gloops^: if the pic matches the software image, bingo
12:35 PM fragalot: in a nutshell, yes
12:36 PM fragalot: basically you teach the system a model of what is acceptable, and what isn't
12:36 PM fragalot: it then compares the object to the model that you've taught it
12:37 PM gloops^: common application/industry for this?
12:37 PM fragalot: tons
12:37 PM fragalot: not all are as advanced or accurate as this one though
12:38 PM fragalot: most of the implementations of this just sit on a conveyor & inspect the items passing under it on the lfy
12:38 PM fragalot: fly
12:41 PM gloops^: hmm
12:41 PM gloops^: wow people really want routers https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/cnc-router/202193134653?
12:41 PM gloops^: that could hit 5k
12:42 PM fragalot: well it does include the full package
12:42 PM fragalot: I recognize the model, I think I looked at these but they were far too expensive new
12:42 PM IchGucksLive: gloops^: did you se what sorotec sells in mass
12:43 PM fragalot: gloops^: here's an open-source implementation of industrial vision systems: https://openmv.io/
12:43 PM gloops^: no not seen much of it Ichs
12:43 PM gloops^: yes they are using this for machine positioning as well fragalot?
12:44 PM gloops^: basically limits etc
12:44 PM fragalot: gloops^: pick&place systems
12:44 PM fragalot: detect where the object is, how it's oriented, and if it meets QC spec all in 1 go
12:44 PM gloops^: all part of production speed
12:45 PM fragalot: then the machine picks the object up (can be out of a random basket where they are all just dumped in)
12:45 PM gloops^: instead of some old fart with a clipboard and a magnifying glass
12:45 PM fragalot: yup
12:45 PM fragalot: now that old far with the clipboard is the one training the vision systems
12:45 PM gregcnc: this isn't even new?
12:45 PM fragalot: it really isn't
12:46 PM gloops^: no im way behind the times
12:46 PM fragalot: the only difference is that it's starting to become more affordable
12:46 PM fragalot: (read: still expensive, but not astronomical anymore)
12:46 PM fragalot: and the cameras & processing they can do is still improving
12:50 PM gregcnc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jLqPuJahqg
12:51 PM gregcnc: https://youtu.be/vbSww5SBqN4?t=1m33s
12:52 PM fragalot: gregcnc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08zM0pswP14 in case you want a faster Z axis
12:55 PM miss0r: so, it turns out the stepper I ordered does NOT have enough torque to do the turning here
12:55 PM miss0r: *sigh*
12:56 PM fragalot: miss0r: :(
12:57 PM miss0r: whats worse, I can't seem to find anything more powerfull than this(in a small enough package)
12:57 PM miss0r: This is a pretty stupid mistake, lol
12:58 PM gregcnc: servo?
12:58 PM gregcnc: room for gear reduction?
12:58 PM miss0r: Excellent question :) perhaps some small size planetary gearing
12:59 PM gregcnc: yes, that would be the way to go as long as speed isn't a limitation
12:59 PM miss0r: This thing should be quite slow, so it is not a problem
01:00 PM gregcnc: add reduction
01:02 PM fragalot: careful with planetary gears
01:03 PM fragalot: you may destroy everything with the torque they put out :P
01:03 PM gregcnc: ? what is this for?
01:03 PM fragalot: gregcnc: his EDM spindle, I think
01:03 PM miss0r: for my rotary edm spindle
01:03 PM gregcnc: what's there to destroy?
01:04 PM miss0r: Damnit! It seems everything I can find takes up too much space
01:04 PM miss0r: nothing realy
01:04 PM fragalot: :P
01:05 PM miss0r: Perhaps a worm gear is the way to go. Then I can set the stepper at an angle, and not have to extend the spindle out into eternity
01:06 PM miss0r: What an absolut pain!
01:07 PM gregcnc: why do machines cost so much again?
01:08 PM fragalot: because the person that sells them knows you will make a profit eventually
01:08 PM miss0r: I have no idea. I hope they hire people who knows what they are doing, and not someone like me ! :)
01:12 PM IchGucksLive: gn8
01:13 PM miss0r: or... OR! I could just add a gear to the main shaft and a smaller one to the motor shaft, have them offset a bit - that would work as well
01:14 PM gregcnc: gear, belt whatever works and fits
01:14 PM miss0r: It will have to be gears, as the shaft assembly is pulled from one side of the spindle & the motor from the other en
01:14 PM miss0r: +d
01:16 PM gregcnc: i've not seen one of these before https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/tls/d/mitutoyo-3d-coordinate/6470389972.html
01:16 PM miss0r: I just would have loved to have less moving parts inside of this
01:17 PM miss0r: They have a simular one where my friend works, sitting in a display window, as a reminder of the olden days
01:20 PM miss0r: I'll have to sleep on it. See you around
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: look how rigid that device is and it's for near zero contact
01:23 PM gregcnc: there used to be a lot of similar machine bases on ebay, not so much anymore
01:26 PM CaptHindsight: almost sold out https://www.ebay.com/itm/Newport-12x12TRB40M-Ball-Screw-Table-Stage-12-5-Travel-6-x-6-Carriage-NEMA-23/311125817149
01:28 PM CaptHindsight: vs brand new junk https://www.ebay.com/itm/300mm-Sliding-Table-Cross-Slide-Linear-Stage-1605-Ballscrew-XYZ-Axis-Heavy-Load/192185634997
01:32 PM fragalot: that's one of the nicer looking ones
01:32 PM fragalot: what you want is the plastic ryobi XY table
01:33 PM CaptHindsight: that makes it easier to throw out in the trash vs heavy steel table
01:44 PM gloops^: i reckon a lump of rsj would be good for a small mill
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: rsj=?
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: richard stallman jaws
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: red stale jam
01:54 PM gloops^: rolled steel joist
01:54 PM gloops^: I section
02:01 PM fragalot: interesting concept https://www.shop.santool.de/en/measuring-tools/gauges/precision-twist-drill-master-gau/digital-twist-drill-caliper-118.html
02:02 PM fragalot: wish I had one of those when learning to sharpen, before I shelled out for a Deckel, lol
02:14 PM gloops^: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/cnc-router/202193134653?
02:14 PM gloops^: last minute on the router, are they done at £3900
02:15 PM CaptHindsight: £4,600 zoinks!
02:15 PM gloops^: pfff
02:16 PM fragalot: gotta love the auto ebay-snipers
02:17 PM CaptHindsight: ~$6500 usd, where do I find these buyers?
02:17 PM gloops^: i dunno, to make that probably more than 2k for parts, theres the software, computer job lot
02:17 PM gloops^: the work surface must be £500
02:18 PM gloops^: CaptHindsight and we have watched bridgeports go for £250 here heh
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: gloops^: yeah completely random
02:20 PM fragalot: why do I never find the 250 bridgeports
02:21 PM fragalot: you have to share your search terms at some point :P
02:22 PM gloops^: someone in here wanted it but too far, i couldnt collect
02:22 PM gloops^: was a small one, decent condition
02:23 PM gloops^: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Milwaukee-Milling-Machine/183033657124?
02:23 PM fragalot: small is perfect; only 2nd hand things i can find are either too far away, too shitty, or just plain too big for my shed which has an 83mm wide entrance to it
02:23 PM gloops^: thats been on numerous times, i dont think they ever collect
02:24 PM fragalot: That goes in the "too large" pile of machines, lol
02:26 PM gloops^: yeah maybe they dont realise theyve bought a tank until they see it
02:26 PM fragalot: it's quite obvious from the pictures, lol
02:27 PM fragalot: maybe they go & view the machine but find out it's got a full 1mm of convexity worn in
02:27 PM gloops^: not much cheap stuff atm
02:28 PM gloops^: horizontal https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Milling-machine-Tom-Senior-Barn-Find/292419734089?
02:28 PM fragalot: That's a cute one!
02:28 PM * Tom_L bets gloops^ isn't working on his mill
02:28 PM fragalot: and it's a size that'd fit in the shop, if I were looking for a horizontal
02:29 PM gloops^: Tom too late now, i usually leave off when it gets dark, neighbours already think im a weirdo lol
02:29 PM Tom_L: i really can't decide what size holes to put in that plate
02:29 PM Tom_L: the sherline ones just seem so small for it but i'm not sure how big to to
02:29 PM Tom_L: go
02:30 PM Tom_L: my neighbors know i am
02:30 PM fragalot: Tom_L: remember you are putting these holes in an alu plate
02:30 PM gloops^: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRIDGEPORT-ADCOCK-SHIPLEY-SERIES-1-VERTICAL-MILL-MILLING-MACHINE-3-PHASE/292422126982?
02:30 PM fragalot: Tom_L: going with 1" holes isn't going to serve much good, and even 1/2" will put out far more force than the plate can take
02:30 PM gloops^: are they going to be threaded?
02:31 PM fragalot: Tom_L: also, look at it this way,
02:32 PM fragalot: Tom_L: if you drill them too small, you can always enlarge
02:32 PM fragalot: Tom_L: and if you drill them too large, you can always put in steel inserts :P
02:32 PM fragalot: Tom_L: and say that it was intentional to reduce wear.
02:32 PM Tom_L: 1" holes???
02:33 PM Tom_L: that would be huge
02:33 PM gloops^: lol
02:33 PM fragalot: haha
02:33 PM gloops^: 8mm is a pretty strong bolt
02:33 PM gloops^: 10mm surely strong enough for any job
02:33 PM Tom_L: i was thinking 1/4" or 5/16
02:33 PM fragalot: Tom_L: how large are the parts you'll be making?
02:34 PM fragalot: Tom_L: also - why not both?
02:34 PM Tom_L: why riddle it with holes i won't use?
02:34 PM gloops^: i suppose it depends how many you can get on, 6 6mm bolts is more rigid than 2 8mm
02:34 PM fragalot: Tom_L: where else are the chips going to go?
02:34 PM Tom_L: i'm putting a sacrificial plate on it i will abuse anyway
02:35 PM Tom_L: i'll start with 1/4" and see how it goes
02:35 PM Tom_L: err 5/16" i meant
02:35 PM fragalot: lol
02:35 PM fragalot: 5/16 sounds good.
02:35 PM gloops^: Tom do you actually still buy bolts in imperial sizes?
02:35 PM Tom_L: i'd like to get a 4" kurt like vise for it
02:35 PM fragalot: it'd be better if it was 8mm, but y'know
02:36 PM Tom_L: a 4" kurt is > $450 though
02:36 PM fragalot: I've got a 6" Vertex on my rf45
02:36 PM Tom_L: fragalot, i'm not partial... i assembled the whole thing with metric bolts
02:36 PM fragalot: the finish on them is atrocious, but it is accurate & rigid
02:37 PM Tom_L: how much does it hang over?
02:37 PM fragalot: a LOT
02:37 PM fragalot: lol
02:37 PM fragalot: I thought "it will be fine" when I bought it
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tls/d/1994-hyundai-hit-18s-cnc/6473198247.html
02:37 PM fragalot: but if I mount it on the center slots, I can't reach the back jaw
02:37 PM fragalot: >.>
02:37 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/i/181062805168?chn=ps
02:38 PM fragalot: so I put the swivel base on at an angle to get it where I want it
02:38 PM Tom_L: wonder about that
02:38 PM gloops^: how much work has that seen i wonder Capt
02:38 PM Tom_L: i _do_ want one the jaws will mount to the ends though
02:38 PM Tom_L: so it will hold larger plates
02:38 PM fragalot: Tom_L: only $95 vices taht are any good are the grinding ones
02:38 PM fragalot: that ebay one will be warped to hell
02:39 PM Tom_L: https://www.ajaxtoolsupply.com/4kustcncsuvi.html?cmp=googleproducts&kw=4kustcncsuvi&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7sfgtMH72AIVFLvsCh16lwcWEAQYASABEgKBtfD_BwE
02:39 PM Tom_L: another one i was looking at
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: look similar
02:39 PM Tom_L: that or a shars one
02:39 PM Tom_L: http://allindustrial.com/kurt-hdl6j-double-station-machine-vise-anglock-cnc-4-opening-workholding/?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&matchtype=&network=g&device=c&adposition=1o2&keyword=&campaign={campaign}&adgroup={adgroup}&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7sfgtMH72AIVFLvsCh16lwcWEAQYAiABEgL-jfD_BwE
02:39 PM fragalot: get the one that will be the least hassle to return if it's warped
02:39 PM Tom_L: and i'll only dream about that one
02:41 PM Tom_L: https://www.ajaxtoolsupply.com/kurtd40.html?cmp=googleproducts&kw=kurtd40&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7sfgtMH72AIVFLvsCh16lwcWEAQYAyABEgIIFvD_BwE
02:41 PM Tom_L: those are as much as a 6"
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/KURT-6-VISE-D675-Made-in-U-S-A-NICE-/192416880062
02:42 PM Tom_L: are the tormach ones any good?
02:42 PM fragalot: trust me, a 6" is quite large.
02:42 PM fragalot: xD
02:42 PM Tom_L: i know
02:42 PM fragalot: I bet I could clamp my table with mine
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: used for ~$350 shipped
02:43 PM Tom_L: looks like they missed a few times with it
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: they have a few of them
02:43 PM fragalot: speed holes
02:44 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kurt-5in-AngLock-milling-vise/302614482412
02:44 PM Isleape1 is now known as Isleape
02:45 PM fragalot: $700 shipping to belgium
02:45 PM fragalot: haha
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: probably cheaper to pick it up from the airport and buy it it's own seat
02:50 PM fragalot: Not quite
02:50 PM fragalot: but close
02:51 PM fragalot: depends on if it orders anything from the in-flight menu
02:52 PM CaptHindsight: I use UPS Air Freight and it's costs <$300 from my dock to most airports anywhere except for New Zealand
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: for under 150 lbs
02:53 PM gloops^: it would probably be as cheap to pick a machine up from south UK from belgium than up here in the north
02:54 PM gloops^: they also fetch much less in the south
02:54 PM gloops^: providing it could fit in your vehicle
02:54 PM fragalot: I don't mind driving to the UK
02:54 PM fragalot: but i'd have to rent a van or something like that
02:55 PM fragalot: which isn't the end of the world, really
02:55 PM gloops^: stuff in the far south goes for nothing, ive often thought of bidding on a few at once and collect them all at once and fetch back up here
02:55 PM fragalot: xD
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: gloops^: from the Dover area? or just south of London?
02:56 PM gloops^: like they do with atniques
02:56 PM gloops^: cornwall, devon - close to london will get bought up
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: Google maps and steet view is actually getting a bit spooky
02:57 PM fragalot: 'tis a spooky place
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: I located the house my mom grew up in using a photo she took in 1989
02:59 PM CaptHindsight: i just looked for the right shaped rooftops and then zoomed to street view
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: small towns in the middle of nowhere are pretty well street viewed now
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: I wonder how well Google has IP locations narrowed down to
03:03 PM Tom_L: you should look out if google ever ran for president
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: well it is a person
03:04 PM Tom_L: with lots of available knowledge
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: not old enough yet
03:04 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: too well, actually
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: isn't 35 the min for pres?
03:04 PM fragalot: google got sued for mapping both IP addresses and wifi MAC addresses whilst they were doing the google maps thing
03:04 PM Tom_L: no idea
03:05 PM CaptHindsight: neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident ...
03:05 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: I recall, but did they throw that data away?
03:06 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: what do you think
03:06 PM Tom_L: well that excludes at least half our population
03:06 PM fragalot: I love it when people say "throw data away"
03:06 PM fragalot: especially in movies
03:06 PM fragalot: "give me the evidence drive or i'll shoot you"
03:06 PM gloops^: well the cops use cell phones to locate suspects here
03:06 PM fragalot: yeah sure, take it, i've got like 50 backups anyway
03:07 PM gloops^: or mobiles to use the correct term
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: they showed a pic of the actual bytes in a dumpster :)
03:07 PM roycroft: corporations may be people, but they are not citizens
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: maybe soon
03:08 PM gloops^: a corporation is a seperate legal entity
03:08 PM roycroft: i'm discussing the status quo
03:08 PM CaptHindsight: Taco Bell vs Verizon for President
03:08 PM roycroft: it's 16 degrees today
03:08 PM fragalot_: seems windows conveniently "forgot" my settings for closing the lid again
03:08 PM roycroft: i not only don't have to turn the heater on in my garage to work there, i've opened the big door
03:09 PM roycroft: an absolutely gorgeous day
03:09 PM fragalot_: every single update windows forces down your throat seems to reset some user configurable setting
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot_: we just killed the update services on the winders machines
03:10 PM fragalot_: CaptHindsight: you can't do that anymore in win10
03:10 PM fragalot_: all you can do is delay the inevitable
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: it's possible
03:10 PM fragalot_ is now known as fragalot
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: install windows, hack for a few days to kill everything you don't want
03:11 PM fragalot: have you checked if those things have not come back after a few months?
03:12 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, but most often the install gets run again due to some external hack
03:12 PM roycroft: microsoft do not have a monopoly on that behavior
03:12 PM CaptHindsight: :)
03:12 PM roycroft: mac os x has changed a lot of defaults over the years
03:12 PM fragalot: yeah but who in their right mind uses a mac
03:13 PM roycroft: and folks go to great efforts to restore some of the old defaults, which are usually better than the newer defaults
03:13 PM roycroft: but with just about every update os x restores the old ones
03:13 PM roycroft: and as far as who in their right mind uses macs, pretty much everyone who is a unix user who wants useful apps
03:14 PM roycroft: there is not enough money in the world to convince me to ditch mac os for windows
03:15 PM fragalot: I can only base my experience on iOS on my iphone that was forced down my throat, and I have to say that before I dissed it just because that's the right thing to do
03:15 PM fragalot: but now that I have one
03:15 PM fragalot: it's so much more annoying than I thought it was :(
03:15 PM roycroft: ios is not mac os
03:15 PM fragalot: True
03:15 PM roycroft: not even remotely related
03:15 PM Tom_L: still apple
03:15 PM Tom_L: with a worm in it
03:16 PM roycroft: and i don't care about the os that my phone or ipad runs
03:16 PM fragalot: lol
03:16 PM roycroft: as long as the apps work
03:16 PM roycroft: because i don't use those devices as general purpose computers
03:16 PM roycroft: my desktop and imac i do
03:16 PM fragalot: I have actually stopped using my phone as much as I used to
03:16 PM roycroft: and i need a full unix environment for my work
03:16 PM fragalot: now it's just to call or get called
03:16 PM roycroft: about 95% of my phone usage is to play music
03:17 PM roycroft: the other 5% is to take annoying phone calls
03:17 PM fragalot: but even with "download mail manually only" it still freaking does it
03:17 PM roycroft: i do use my ipad a lot though
03:17 PM roycroft: i'm on call 24/7
03:17 PM roycroft: and having a vpn client and an ssh client on the ipad lets me travel without having to lug a laptop around with me
03:17 PM roycroft: so there's that
03:18 PM fragalot: yeah, citrix is also very nice for that
03:18 PM roycroft: it's all what works for one
03:18 PM roycroft: fortunately there are a lot of choices, as there are a lot of different people with differing needs
03:19 PM roycroft: i grew up with unix, and that's what i know best and feel most comfortable with
03:19 PM fragalot: Very true, there are a lot of people with special needs :-)
03:19 PM roycroft: lots of folks, especially younger folks, grew up with ms-dos/windows and feel most comfortable with that
03:19 PM fragalot: I grew up with both
03:19 PM roycroft: different strokes for different folks is what i say
03:20 PM Louis_Cypher: Can anybody help me with the stepconf settings?
03:20 PM fragalot: I use windows just because that's the most common platform; used to run Gentoo but that was when I was still bothered about computers
03:20 PM roycroft: i wouldn't say that nobody in their right mind uses windows
03:20 PM Louis_Cypher: I tried to move the motors in stepconf using the "testing" menu
03:20 PM roycroft: i can just say that trying to deal with windows infuriates me to the point that other than for dedicated apps, i would rather not use computers at all than use windows
03:21 PM Louis_Cypher: The motors are switched on but don't move at all. They get warm, but that's it
03:21 PM fragalot: haha
03:21 PM fragalot: Louis_Cypher: I have personally not had much luck with the test menu
03:21 PM fragalot: my motors did not work in the test menu, but did work in the main application
03:21 PM roycroft: i am going to use my new router table today for the first time
03:21 PM roycroft: but not as a router table
03:21 PM Louis_Cypher: How do I check without the testing menu?
03:22 PM roycroft: i'll be using it as an off-feed table for my table saw
03:22 PM fragalot: roycroft: ha
03:22 PM Louis_Cypher: I have DM542A drivers
03:22 PM roycroft: so that i can cut up some plywood sheets to make parts for my router table
03:22 PM Louis_Cypher: tried a lot of different timings
03:22 PM roycroft: i built it specifically to be able to be used as an off-feed table
03:22 PM fragalot: Louis_Cypher: finish the wizard, then try linuxcnc itself (with your hand on the emergency stop button in case they home the wrong way)
03:22 PM roycroft: it was really difficult to break down sheets of plywood on my table saw
03:22 PM Louis_Cypher: ranging from 2500,2500,5000,5000 to 2500,2500,10000,8000....
03:23 PM Louis_Cypher: I did
03:23 PM Louis_Cypher: Cannot get them running
03:23 PM roycroft: did the magic smoke come out of the motors, louis_cypher?
03:23 PM fragalot: is the step signal actually going through to the drive?
03:23 PM Louis_Cypher: The motors currently aren't connected to the leadscrews.. So all safe
03:23 PM Louis_Cypher: No smoke
03:23 PM roycroft: great! then there is still hope!
03:23 PM Louis_Cypher: the get war only a bit
03:24 PM Louis_Cypher: ouch
03:24 PM Louis_Cypher: they get warm only a bit
03:24 PM fragalot: thta's normal
03:24 PM * roycroft heads out to enjoy the sunshine
03:24 PM Louis_Cypher: I know. But I'd love to see them turning;-)
03:25 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: I agree, winders is just a necessary evil for CAD/CAM and some games
03:25 PM fragalot: I'm off to bed, gnite all!
03:25 PM fragalot: and Louis_Cypher, slow timings just means the motors will have a limited speed
03:25 PM Louis_Cypher: They already moved a couple of months ago but I cannot get them turning again
03:25 PM fragalot: sounds like a loose wire, or a different pin is the actual step signal
03:25 PM Louis_Cypher: I remember that somehting with the test motor menu was a bit weired...
03:26 PM fragalot: gnite!
03:26 PM CaptHindsight: dobranoc
03:26 PM Louis_Cypher: I went to 10000 10000 10000 10000 as well
03:26 PM Louis_Cypher: Same problem
03:26 PM Louis_Cypher: Are the limit switches read when I do use the test menu
03:26 PM Louis_Cypher: ?
03:27 PM Louis_Cypher: Or estop?
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: change your config to ignore hardware limit switches
03:28 PM Louis_Cypher: Is this necessary for the testing as well?
03:28 PM CaptHindsight: Louis_Cypher: are you using step config?
03:28 PM Louis_Cypher: Yep
03:28 PM Louis_Cypher: Wanted to start the easy way first ;-)
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: and no movement with all the proper connections? STEP, DIR, POWER etc
03:29 PM Louis_Cypher: Yep
03:29 PM Louis_Cypher: I tried two out of three axes
03:30 PM Louis_Cypher: the third isn't wired yet
03:30 PM CaptHindsight: I have to leave but it's usually just some dumb simple mistake
03:30 PM Louis_Cypher: Maybe I have to check all the wires again
03:30 PM CaptHindsight: I often doesn't see my own mistakes
03:30 PM Louis_Cypher: moved the whole thing around quite a bit
03:30 PM CaptHindsight: like my writing :)
03:31 PM Louis_Cypher: That's why I am asking here ;-)
03:31 PM Louis_Cypher: Same for me
03:31 PM CaptHindsight: I'll be back later and be glad to help
03:31 PM CaptHindsight: maybe someone else will now
03:31 PM Louis_Cypher: So, to some up. Setting way conservative timing settings won't kill anything
03:31 PM Louis_Cypher: right?
03:32 PM Louis_Cypher: So I'll start with that
03:32 PM CaptHindsight: what is your pulse width high low for step and dir?
03:32 PM CaptHindsight: if too short that can be a problem
03:32 PM Louis_Cypher: Wrong microstepping settings should just lead to wrong gearing, right?
03:32 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
03:33 PM CaptHindsight: unless you have some crazy 10000000 steps per step
03:33 PM CaptHindsight: and then you won't see 1000 steps :)
03:33 PM Louis_Cypher: I tried 5000 and 2500
03:33 PM CaptHindsight: try 1, 2 or 4
03:34 PM Louis_Cypher: I did. Everything from 2 to 4096...
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: check the wiring with a meter
03:34 PM Louis_Cypher: Ok, so at least I do know that testing should work with 4 steps
03:34 PM Louis_Cypher: It seems I have to do so
03:34 PM phipli: silly surface mount components
03:34 PM phipli: can't read what it says on them
03:35 PM CaptHindsight: also check polarity of STEP and DIR
03:35 PM Louis_Cypher: that's a pity since I have to do it overhead. The whole electronics is under the bed ;-/
03:35 PM * phipli makes note to leave pieces of paper with part numbers in bags with SMD components
03:35 PM Louis_Cypher: OK
03:35 PM CaptHindsight: bbl
03:35 PM CaptHindsight: hasta
03:35 PM Louis_Cypher: Can I do that without an oscilloscope
03:35 PM Louis_Cypher: ?
03:36 PM CaptHindsight: volt meter
03:36 PM Louis_Cypher: OK
03:36 PM Louis_Cypher: I'll do that tomorrow
03:36 PM Louis_Cypher: What happens if polarity is wrong?
03:36 PM * JT-Shop has decided he has cut split and stacked enough firewood for today... time to have a beer with my peeps
03:36 PM phipli: :)
03:36 PM Louis_Cypher: BTW I am using the cheap Longs Motor DM542
03:37 PM gloops^: what seems to be the problem Louis?
03:37 PM Louis_Cypher: Motors just don't move
03:37 PM Louis_Cypher: They get switched on, warm but don't move. None of them
03:37 PM phipli: JT-Shop, I'm trying to sort out some of my SMT components - I've worked out that some three legged things are "2N7002"s, because they are the only thing I ordered 200 of
03:38 PM Louis_Cypher: But I think CaptHindsight is right. It might be the cabling.
03:38 PM gloops^: Louis wrong pairs of wires
03:38 PM phipli: They've written quite a lot of text on something that is only about 3mm long
03:38 PM gloops^: 4 wire motors?
03:38 PM Louis_Cypher: Yep
03:38 PM gloops^: did you check for pairs?
03:38 PM Louis_Cypher: There is nothing I can do wrong on the motor side, right?
03:38 PM gloops^: yes there is
03:39 PM Louis_Cypher: Yepp. The whole setup already worked a couple of months ago
03:39 PM Louis_Cypher: OK, besides not having paris connected ;-)
03:40 PM Louis_Cypher: But then the motors wouldn't be switched on and they wouldn't get warm
03:40 PM gloops^: yes yes they would, heres what to do
03:40 PM Louis_Cypher: Listening carefully...
03:41 PM gloops^: disconnect the wires to a motor, now turn the motor - you feel a little bit of resistance right? now wire 2 wires together, turn the motor again - if its harder to turn - that is a pair, if its the same - it isnt a pair, do that until you got 2 pairs of wires
03:42 PM Louis_Cypher: Thanks gloops, but this already is checkes. As I mentioned the whole setup worked already some months ago
03:43 PM gloops^: alright, whats changed?
03:43 PM Louis_Cypher: When switched on the motors get warm (meaning paris are connected) and have a holding torque
03:43 PM Louis_Cypher: That is a good question =-)
03:43 PM Louis_Cypher: That's what I am searching for
03:44 PM gloops^: you must have the wires crossed to driver
03:44 PM Louis_Cypher: I only tested one out of three drivers at that point of time and they all have different settings =-(
03:44 PM Louis_Cypher: from breakoutboard to driver?
03:44 PM Louis_Cypher: I'll check that tomorrow
03:45 PM gloops^: motor to driver
03:45 PM Louis_Cypher: why
03:45 PM Louis_Cypher: ?
03:45 PM Louis_Cypher: If I do not have connected a pair, no current, right?
03:46 PM gloops^: ive got longs motors and dm542 drivers, but garage is closed up for the night ill check mine tommorrow
03:46 PM Louis_Cypher: If I connected the pairs wrong, the motor will only turn the wrong direction, right?
03:46 PM gloops^: it might not turn at all, do they move if you help them?
03:46 PM Louis_Cypher: The cabling of the motor is the only thing I can be sure didn't change
03:47 PM gloops^: so nothing changed from drivers to motors
03:47 PM Louis_Cypher: That would be great? Thanks gloops^
03:47 PM Louis_Cypher: yep
03:47 PM Louis_Cypher: I'll give helping a try tomorrow.
03:47 PM Louis_Cypher: My guess is that one of the inputs to the driver isn't connected anymore....
03:48 PM Louis_Cypher: Maybe plain stupid 5V is missing?
03:48 PM Louis_Cypher: Yepp, that's it!!! Thanks gloops^
03:49 PM Louis_Cypher: I forgot to pug in the USB connector! It was connected to the wrong comupter for sure
03:49 PM Louis_Cypher: I'll go check that right now!
03:49 PM gloops^: well someone will help - different people come at different times, im not an expert, Ichshuckslive knows all about this stuff
03:56 PM Louis_Cypher: You did it!:-D
03:57 PM gloops^: what was it?
03:57 PM phipli: https://www.banggood.com/80-Values-4000pcs-0402-SMD-Capacitor-Sample-Book-Assortment-Kit-p-1124992.html?rmmds=detail-top-buytogether-auto__5&cur_warehouse=CN
03:57 PM Louis_Cypher: It was just the USB cable that still was in my old computer. Hence there was no supply voltage on the breakoutboard
03:57 PM Deejay: gn8
03:58 PM phipli: 0805 is small enough for me, for now... but I like that they do a bound book of tiny capacitors
03:58 PM gloops^: ahh yes, just i thought, the old 5v problem
03:58 PM Louis_Cypher: I had 12V for the inputs connected, hence there was "some light" on my board
03:59 PM Louis_Cypher: and the drivers of course do switch on the motors even without 5V. Great! I can no start my final assembly after getting some sleep
03:59 PM gloops^: what machine is this for Louis?
03:59 PM Louis_Cypher: You saved me turing the whole 60kg monster upside down
03:59 PM Louis_Cypher: I designed it on my own
04:00 PM gloops^: any photos?
04:00 PM Louis_Cypher: 1200mm times 800mm
04:00 PM gloops^: thats a good size!
04:01 PM Louis_Cypher: It's my second machine
04:01 PM Louis_Cypher: Started with a Shapeoko
04:02 PM Louis_Cypher: Poor design. Had to tweak quite a bit until it worked fine
04:02 PM gloops^: how did you find the shapeko?
04:02 PM Louis_Cypher: I bought a kit
04:02 PM Louis_Cypher: Waiting for my mobile to find a picture
04:03 PM gloops^: yes there are advantages to that
04:03 PM Louis_Cypher: You can start tweaking from the beginning rather than being tired from building all from scratch ;-)
04:03 PM Louis_Cypher: And the Shapeoko needs tweaking
04:04 PM Louis_Cypher: the y axis is not really a good design
04:04 PM gloops^: true, although any machine has its limits
04:04 PM gloops^: i am making a machine of great expectations atm
04:04 PM Louis_Cypher: But the Shapoko has some that can be fixe within half an hour and 5 bucks
04:05 PM Louis_Cypher: What size?
04:05 PM gloops^: approx 1200x900 cutting area
04:05 PM Louis_Cypher: And how many axis?
04:05 PM Louis_Cypher: Wow that's huge!
04:05 PM gloops^: 3 axis, router
04:05 PM Louis_Cypher: Ballscrews?
04:06 PM gloops^: yes only cheapo chinese ones
04:06 PM Louis_Cypher: Same for me. Banggood
04:07 PM gloops^: this was a couple of weeks ago, soon be finished https://ibb.co/cXfTib
04:09 PM Louis_Cypher: Cool!
04:09 PM Louis_Cypher: How do you synchronize the leadscrews of the y axis? I guess you have on on either side
04:10 PM gloops^: software - linuxcnc
04:10 PM gloops^: you can have 7 motors per axis with linuxcnc
04:11 PM Louis_Cypher: Not my favorite. Not a big deal with leadscrews. With belts it is. That's the weakest point on the shapeoko.
04:12 PM Louis_Cypher: The gantry exerts forces to both belts just to get straight. Hence, the steppers loose steps like crazy
04:12 PM gloops^: well, with belts is it simply enough to use a driveshaft from one side to the other, one motor
04:12 PM Louis_Cypher: Just put one rod rom one pulley to the other side and it was way far better
04:12 PM Louis_Cypher: Exactly
04:12 PM Louis_Cypher: That made the machine a good machine
04:13 PM Louis_Cypher: I think about two motors as well but a belt in addition. Want to be sure nothing breakes when one motor doesn't work for whatever reason
04:14 PM Louis_Cypher: Currenly I have one motor and two screws
04:14 PM gloops^: its probably always better to avoid 2 motors where possible yes
04:14 PM Louis_Cypher: You have a large gearing on the X axis. Are you doing that because of accuracy?
04:14 PM Louis_Cypher: I have about half the gearing
04:15 PM gloops^: with linuxcnc each motor homes seperately, so they start off in exact position, if steps have been lost
04:15 PM gloops^: just to speed it up a bit, the screws wont go mega fast, but will go a bit faster than with direct coupling
04:16 PM Louis_Cypher: OK
04:16 PM Louis_Cypher: I have to see how fast it gets. For sure much slower than the Shapeoko. Was cutting at 2000m/min today and an go even faster
04:16 PM gloops^: it is all made on the cheap, but with a bit of luck i might get something decent
04:17 PM Louis_Cypher: I am sure thise will get a great machine!
04:17 PM Louis_Cypher: What's your guess about the maximum speed of the Nema23s?
04:17 PM Louis_Cypher: I do not have any experience with those guys.
04:18 PM Louis_Cypher: Only used Grbl up to now with Polulu drivers
04:18 PM gloops^: with this gearing, it depends when the screws start to vibrate - maybe 5m-7.5m/min
04:19 PM Louis_Cypher: OK. Then I'll get about half the speed which is still OK. Want to machine aluminium...
04:19 PM Louis_Cypher: Is your ballscrew a 16*5?
04:20 PM gloops^: yeah speed isnt everything, it can be useful though, ill be using pine a lot - best speed - 12inch/min
04:20 PM gloops^: 1605 yeah
04:20 PM gloops^: should have got 2010 screws
04:21 PM Louis_Cypher: I put my rails for the y axis on the side. Any reason you put them on top?
04:22 PM Louis_Cypher: Already late. Have to go to bed to be ready for final assembly tomorrow after work ;-)
04:22 PM gloops^: didnt really have preference, these round rails can bend easier than square, i thought theyd be better taking the weight flat down, then from the side
04:22 PM gloops^: yeah let us know how it works
04:22 PM Louis_Cypher: I'll send a picture of my machine the next days
04:23 PM gloops^: the others will help you get it working if any problems
04:23 PM Louis_Cypher: I'll do. Same for you! Thanks for guiding me to my stupid error 8-)
04:23 PM Louis_Cypher: Bye
04:26 PM pink_vampire: hi
04:28 PM gloops^: evening
04:29 PM pink_vampire: i need to get a tool drawer
04:30 PM gloops^: have you got anything to put in it?
04:30 PM pink_vampire: yes
04:30 PM gloops^: they are handy
04:30 PM pink_vampire: i want to replace my power hacksaw stand with a tool drawer organizer
04:31 PM gloops^: tool organisation is half the battle you know
04:31 PM Tom_L: yeah ya just gotta remember where you set it down last time you used it
04:32 PM gloops^: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-Metal-Drawers/183041243852?
04:32 PM pink_vampire: i no longer have the tool rack on the wall
04:33 PM gloops^: these are good - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Industrial-Metal-Storage-Unit-20-Drawers-Green-Filing-Cabinet-Military/302618223427?
04:33 PM gloops^: always too far away
04:34 PM pink_vampire: lollll triumph!
04:34 PM gloops^: yes, a fine old british brand
04:34 PM gloops^: they dont make them like this now you know
04:35 PM pink_vampire: i more familiar with https://findtheone.triumph.com/en_us/
04:35 PM gloops^: that looks top drawer
04:37 PM gloops^: http://images.triumphmotorcycles.co.uk/media-library/images/bikes/my17%20roadsters/my17-street-triple-rs-engine-banner3-lb.jpg?w=2200
04:38 PM pink_vampire: funny
04:42 PM gloops^: in the late 60s, Triumph designed the triple engine, it was the fasest production bike engine in the world - just a few years later - went bust
04:48 PM MarcelineVQ: strange how bikes seem to get less pretty, design-wise, over time. probably just how age works
04:49 PM phipli: this still looks nice : http://www.classic-british-motorcycles.com/images/69Vel-Thruxton-R.jpg
04:49 PM MarcelineVQ: by which I mean the newer a bike is the dumber it looks, generally it seems to me.
04:49 PM phipli: even when it is more than double your age
04:52 PM gloops^: milling section at BSA (made bikes amongst other things) https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/images/3/32/ImV103-p282c.jpg
04:52 PM MarcelineVQ: not sure, the ones around double my age are probably the nicest hehe
04:53 PM MarcelineVQ: that'd be late 1950's models if I'm catching your meaning
04:58 PM gloops^: ariel - https://www.bennetts.co.uk/-/media/import/4771_images/768_Ariel045
05:00 PM gloops^: milled from 1 piece of alloy
05:00 PM gloops^: these might have a chance now with the low £
05:01 PM gloops^: old ariel https://assets.hemmings.com/story_image/353101-1000-0@2x.jpg?rev=2
05:20 PM Crom: Working on 2 weld positioners
06:04 PM CaptHindsight: remember that Amtrak crash last month?
06:04 PM CaptHindsight: "engineers and conductors warned their supervisors that they did not feel adequately trained on the new route," nice
06:05 PM CaptHindsight: The engineer told the NTSB he missed at least two signs which would have warned him to slow down, then "as soon as he saw the 30 mph sign at the start of the curve, he applied brakes.
06:06 PM CaptHindsight: was travelling at near 80 miles an hour, so 50mph over the speed for that turn
06:11 PM lostapathy: :q
06:13 PM MarcelineVQ: wonder if there was there overgrowth near the signs at all
06:14 PM CaptHindsight: go to 2:45, doesn't look like it https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/01/28/workers-say-amtrak-warned-of-washington-state-train-derailment-griffin-pkg.cnn
06:15 PM CaptHindsight: if that is the approach it's really clean and clear
06:15 PM CaptHindsight: how do you miss 2 signs?
06:15 PM CaptHindsight: was he distracted?
06:16 PM MarcelineVQ: woah this was the first run of the track? had no idea.
06:16 PM CaptHindsight: first run with passengers
06:17 PM CaptHindsight: 2nd time in that direction for the conductor
06:17 PM CaptHindsight: pretty sad
06:18 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/28/us/amtrak-501-derail-training-safety-investigation/index.html
08:47 PM Contract_Pilot: Getting somewhere on the spindle...
08:53 PM Contract_Pilot: VFD Scale 12.5hz then Scale in the INI to = 4.625 and a setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.02.maxvel 2200 i get up to about 2180 RPM and nearly dead on on the lowest 180, 500, 1000, 1,500, 2000 but get a cliping error
08:53 PM Contract_Pilot: I know i should be able to hit 2,500rpm on this VFD / Motor Combo.
08:54 PM pink_vampire: i'm not sure
08:55 PM Contract_Pilot: I should be able to use a lower scale but it don't like it.
08:55 PM Contract_Pilot: 12.5hz is the pulsetrain scale that seems to work.
08:56 PM Contract_Pilot: on the VFD
08:56 PM pink_vampire: i'm using the factory spindle
08:56 PM Contract_Pilot: Pink on what
08:56 PM pink_vampire: it's a dc one :(
08:56 PM pink_vampire: g0704
08:57 PM Contract_Pilot: Ahhh
08:57 PM pink_vampire: 1000 rpm :(((
08:57 PM Contract_Pilot: I just sold on ebay a controller card for a 704 hahaha
08:57 PM pink_vampire: i need to upgrade it
08:57 PM Contract_Pilot: Motor Controller
08:57 PM pink_vampire: you also have g0704?
08:57 PM Contract_Pilot: Had
08:58 PM pink_vampire: what do you have now?
08:59 PM Contract_Pilot: Tormach 1100
08:59 PM Contract_Pilot: During the Construction http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/image-1-1024x768.jpeg
09:00 PM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/image-45-1024x768.jpeg
09:00 PM pink_vampire: nice!!
09:01 PM Contract_Pilot: To a Sherline http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/image-20-1024x768.jpeg
09:01 PM pink_vampire: baby mill
09:02 PM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/image-5-1024x768.jpeg
09:02 PM pink_vampire: you got it with the bt30?
09:03 PM Wolf__: I think the tormac only comes in r8
09:04 PM Wolf__: tormach*
09:04 PM pink_vampire: no
09:04 PM pink_vampire: r8 and bt30
09:05 PM Wolf__: shows how much I know… lol
09:06 PM pink_vampire: i need small machine that can make small parts
09:06 PM pink_vampire: and to it good
09:07 PM pink_vampire: i did the over build setup ever
09:07 PM Wolf__: are you sure, I dont see a 1100 shown with a option other then R8
09:08 PM Contract_Pilot: It has R8 but the TTS
09:08 PM pink_vampire: https://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=catshow&ref=BT_30_Spindle_Cartridge
09:08 PM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/20180128_190314-1024x768.jpg
09:08 PM Contract_Pilot: VFD and the nest of wires..
09:08 PM Wolf__: hmm
09:08 PM Contract_Pilot: Once i get the VFD working i will put it all in a cabinet.
09:09 PM Wolf__: nice
09:10 PM Contract_Pilot: But igot it to go to 2,200 RPM rathr stable just have to figure the PP error i think it is a typo in the config.
09:12 PM pink_vampire: what do you say about my setup? https://i.imgur.com/NvBQbGG.jpg
09:13 PM Wolf__: =) looks good to me
09:15 PM enleth: Contract_Pilot: does that vertical tank air compressor shake much when it's on? I've got a horizontal tank one and I think it would try to walk all over the shop if it was mounted so high on such a small base
09:17 PM Wolf__: I have one somewhat like that, doesnt move much, but its bolted to the floor
09:18 PM enleth: mine is on a modified pallet which absorbs some vibration, but it still shakes quite a bit
09:18 PM Contract_Pilot: Sweet a typo one to many 0's
09:18 PM enleth: it was worse when it had wheels
09:19 PM CaptHindsight: I put my big 3p horizontal compressor on top of two fibreglass furniture dollies
09:19 PM Contract_Pilot: trying to drill the center of that plug wolf?
09:19 PM CaptHindsight: no vibration
09:19 PM CaptHindsight: and i can roll it around the shop
09:19 PM Wolf__: thats pink’s pic of the npt plug in the vise
09:19 PM Contract_Pilot: enleth not a bit and its not even bolted down
09:20 PM CaptHindsight: anyone here in Poland?
09:20 PM enleth: CaptHindsight: me, why?
09:20 PM Wolf__: quincys are balanced well
09:20 PM pink_vampire: i just finshed saw the L shape aluminum
09:20 PM Contract_Pilot: Yes they are
09:20 PM Contract_Pilot: 4 cylinder 2stag
09:20 PM CaptHindsight: enleth: might be looking for a bilingual student to do some research for me
09:20 PM Wolf__: mine is a husky with a HF head on it, it will run around the shop if not bolted down
09:21 PM CaptHindsight: translate some docs etc
09:22 PM Wolf__: I would do that pipe plug in my lathe =P
09:22 PM enleth: CaptHindsight: I might be able to help, email me the details on remigiusz@marcinkiewicz.me
09:23 PM pink_vampire: i was able to save the inner part of the L
09:24 PM Contract_Pilot: Not to see about using a non quadrature encoder on this board...
09:24 PM CaptHindsight: enleth: pm
09:25 PM Contract_Pilot: I do not think the chip will allow it.
09:27 PM Contract_Pilot: setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.02.steplen 100000 nope setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.02.steplen 10000 ridded myselfof the error.
09:28 PM Contract_Pilot: Have to call ASUS in the morning this 400.00 GT-AC5300 Router don't like the 8tb USB 3.0 keeps locking it up.
09:29 PM Contract_Pilot: + they have a GUI Error when adding Samba accounts
09:29 PM Contract_Pilot: th Text you type is white on white background WTF???
09:31 PM Contract_Pilot: Now that i have gone thru the hours of math do i want to re-gear this lathe to get 3000 RPM Hummm.
09:31 PM Contract_Pilot: It is Only Designed for 1,400RPM hahahha
09:32 PM Wolf__: lol
09:34 PM Contract_Pilot: 2000, RPM by 500 ea to 500 RPM https://youtu.be/48vtx0D0unk
09:35 PM Contract_Pilot: I am thinking maybe 1:1 timing belt and nix the V Belts?
09:35 PM jdh: someone in the southeast should buy my g0704
09:36 PM Contract_Pilot: Or should i just order a pulley and 2 new belts.
09:37 PM Contract_Pilot: Need to pull that large pulley and and get the shaft size.
09:37 PM Wolf__: if you just had a lathe to make pulleys on
09:37 PM Contract_Pilot: Yea,
09:38 PM Wolf__: I’ve been thinking about turning new one for my lathe, seeing how bad the cast one is that came from mcmaster is
09:38 PM Contract_Pilot: But to tool up for a 1 off prob cost 10X's the cost of a pulley
09:38 PM Wolf__: grind a HSS
09:40 PM Connor: jdh: Why? Not using it?
09:40 PM jdh: not really. I feel the urge to declutter my life
09:40 PM Contract_Pilot: I kindof wish i never got rid of my 704
09:41 PM Connor: Going to be working on mine now that I have the bridgeport up and running.
09:43 PM Contract_Pilot: BB In a Bit Gonna Try this Encoder
09:47 PM CaptHindsight: heh, I found my moms old house half way around the world on Google Streetview and now I'm looking at the inside of it on a real estate site
09:48 PM CaptHindsight: privacy is gone