#linuxcnc Logs

Jan 23 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:07 AM gloops: cable drag is too much messing about
01:20 AM Loetmichel: mornin'
01:22 AM MrHindsight: guten morgen
01:23 AM MrHindsight: Loetmichel: did you get any time off for vacation?
01:27 AM Loetmichel: nope
01:27 AM Loetmichel: not now
01:37 AM gloops: what do you reckon so far https://ibb.co/cXfTib
01:47 AM archivist: battleship grey
01:51 AM gloops: stealth
01:59 AM archivist: needs "some" cable management
02:00 AM Loetmichel: gloops: the ballscrews look a bit thin
02:00 AM Loetmichel: and low pitch
02:00 AM Loetmichel: not all that high speed possible
02:00 AM gloops: yeah im just using that for testing purposes, got some shielded wire coming next week, i will use dragchain for the y and z, the cables for the X come through the box section straight to the motor
02:01 AM gloops: Loet yes it is a bit undergunned and slow, i dont really know what speed it will get, hopefully 200ipm, maybe more, maybe less
02:01 AM Loetmichel: i honestly dont understand why you all dont invert the z axis though
02:01 AM Deejay: moin
02:01 AM Loetmichel: thats lost rigidity there
02:02 AM gloops: invert the z axis?
02:02 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7299&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
02:03 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7287&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
02:03 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7290&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
02:03 AM Loetmichel: much less overhang that way
02:03 AM Loetmichel: or did you and i interpret your picture wrong?
02:04 AM gloops: my spindle is probably closer to the y than yours id guess
02:05 AM Loetmichel: where are your rails fixed? on the Z axis or n the y slider?
02:05 AM Loetmichel: x slider
02:05 AM gloops: the rails are fixed on the front plate
02:06 AM Loetmichel: so the Z rails are on the moving part of z, an the bearing sleds are on the x slider?
02:06 AM Loetmichel: then i take it back. Thats the way to go to minimize overhang.
02:08 AM gloops: yes thats how i did it, the rails also brace the front plate a bit
02:09 AM Loetmichel: sorry then
02:09 AM Loetmichel: it looked like the rails were on the x sled and the bearings on the Z plate. I stand corrected.
02:09 AM gloops: lol, it it is pretty rigid i think, as always, the proof is in the pudding, see how it cuts then i'll know
02:11 AM gloops: i got the thinner screws because they were cheap and my original plan was to make rotating nuts - but thats been kicked down the road because would take too long at this point
02:11 AM Loetmichel: Point on the ballscrews is that i experienced oscillation/wobbling on my last big build at 70mm/s on y because of the 16mm*4mm ballscrews that spanned only 1700mm
02:11 AM gloops: (that is assuming i can get it to move)
02:12 AM Loetmichel: its called "kritische drehzahl" in german, no idea how they call it in english.
02:12 AM gloops: resonance
02:12 AM Loetmichel: yes, something like that
02:13 AM Loetmichel: the x axis that is built identically but shorter could go 100++mm/s
02:13 AM gloops: these are about 1250 between bearings im guess anywhere between 5 and 7.5m/min critical speed
02:13 AM gloops: i dount these screws are machined centrally, could get vibration pretty quick
02:14 AM Loetmichel: had i used 16*10mm ballscrews i could have driven them 200mm/s with ease without resonance
02:14 AM Loetmichel: or thicker ones.
02:15 AM gloops: best screws would be 2010 or 2510, could also do away with the pulleys then
02:15 AM archivist: the gearing motor to stepper might make it worse
02:16 AM gloops: well archivist, the motors probably only go 800rpm, i think the screws can do a bit more than that, hence the gearing, i will be able to go as fast as the screws allow, not be restricted by the max motor speed
02:17 AM gloops: if its no good with the belts ill go direct to the motor, not a big job
02:18 AM archivist: what is the distance per full step
02:18 AM gloops: im still thinking there will be plenty of tweaking to do alignment wise
02:19 AM gloops: if and when it runs good, i might have a go at rotating nuts, will be better to fit them to a machine thats known to be running correctly, rather than have too many experimental things to start up with
02:21 AM gloops: my experience getting fixed nuts to sit true on a bit of old plate tell me rotating nuts would need to be pretty well made
02:48 AM MrHindsight: archivist: http://www.opensourceimaging.org/project/cosi-measure/ stable as a wet noodle
02:49 AM gloops: distance per full step = 0.025
02:49 AM MrHindsight: http://www.opensourceimaging.org/wp-content/uploads/open_source_magnetic_resonance_imaging_projects_cosimeasure_precision_3.jpg non contact and look at it wobble
02:49 AM gloops: 2-1 gearing = .05 that is as accurate as the ballscrews themselves
02:52 AM Loetmichel: gloops: gearing with timing belts isnt all bad though
02:53 AM Loetmichel: it provides dampening of resonance and acceleration forces, makes the drive quieter AND gets you less space requirements because the motor isnt protuding outwards
02:53 AM gloops: Loet i dont think it will be bad, i had serious doubts but the screws turn very easy, like the volume knob on an old radio, not a massive amount of drag on the belts
02:53 AM Loetmichel: AND you have no alignment issues which require a flexible coupling of some sort
02:54 AM gloops: thats true
02:55 AM Loetmichel: and as long as you use the correct pulleys and timing belt type the backlash you are introduicing is less than a step anyway, so no accuracy lost
02:56 AM gloops: i watched a video earlier of someone levelling an ally extrusion machine table, he did it by adjusting bolts to the floor - which twisted the machine to level lol, the steel frame doesnt do that, its staying aligned as it is haha
02:57 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4935&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
02:57 AM Loetmichel: thats the last machine i build myseldf
02:57 AM Loetmichel: i helped building this one though: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
02:58 AM Loetmichel: btw: what did you do for syncing the left and right ballscrews?
02:58 AM Loetmichel: only software? or do you have a cross belt of some sort?
03:00 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7080&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- thats what i used on the "non-steppermotor" side of the y ballscrews. The tensioner is made that complicated because i couldnt get a long enough belt to span across the machine
03:01 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7086&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
03:02 AM gloops: i was going to use wood for mine, would have been easier to work with and quicker, im pretty much relying on linuxcnc to sync the 2 motor axis
03:03 AM gloops: how do those cut Loet? ok?
03:10 AM Loetmichel: cut?
03:10 AM Loetmichel: you mean what they can machine?
03:10 AM Loetmichel: everything including aluminium
03:11 AM Loetmichel: This marine plywood is surprisingly dimensionally stable and rigid
03:12 AM Loetmichel: combined with a good boxed construction and about 1000 spax screws you get a machine that is more rigid than similar sized aluminium gantrys.
03:12 AM Loetmichel: AND lighter AND cheaper
03:12 AM Loetmichel: only drawback is that flood cooling is a bad idea
03:15 AM gloops: yeah, ive made boxes from plywood before, very strong, nothing wrong with wood build so long as the place isnt damp
03:23 AM Loetmichel: marine plywood isnt really suspectible to humidity
03:24 AM Loetmichel: you can even submerge the better ones under water and nothing will happen aside from a slight swelling at the cut edges. its glued with a kind of resin instead of white glue
03:27 AM archivist: MrHindsight, rofl "submillimeter resolution. Possible"
03:51 AM archivist: I got a 10% discount card if I spend 30 or more...item I want is 29.9 grrrr
04:40 AM jthornton: morning
05:13 AM XXCoder: archivist: buy candy
05:39 AM XXCoder: roycroft: hows spindle so far
05:45 AM Tom_L: 26F
05:46 AM jthornton: 39°F and overcast
05:46 AM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRN00-0enYw
05:46 AM jthornton: got one pullet laying from the roost
05:46 AM Tom_L: nice
05:48 AM jthornton: what kind of spindle is that?
05:48 AM Tom_L: i took it off the sherline for now
05:48 AM Tom_L: held on with clamps until i position it
05:49 AM Tom_L: i made the aluminum plate to mount it to the new mill the other day
05:49 AM jthornton: looking good
05:49 AM Tom_L: it's digging it's own grave :)
05:50 AM Tom_L: is henry behaving?
05:51 AM jthornton: pretty much with me, he keeps his distance from me
05:53 AM Tom_L: i think i'm gonna try to make retractable way covers using neoprene sheet or something like it like those window shades that pull down and retract
05:53 AM Tom_L: then they won't bunch up and get in the way
05:53 AM jthornton: have you thought about rolled shim stock?
05:53 AM Tom_L: no
05:54 AM jthornton: make it like a wide tape measure
05:54 AM Tom_L: yeah
05:54 AM Tom_L: that might work
05:54 AM Tom_L: until i slice my arm off
05:55 AM gloops: connecting z ballnut bracket to plate, will be done mechanically tommorrow, might be weekend before i get to run anything though
05:55 AM Tom_L: i wonder how thick shimstock it would take
06:05 AM archivist: Tom_L, I can measure the clock spring type of ball screw cover I have
06:07 AM archivist: about 15 thou
06:08 AM Tom_L: thanks
06:10 AM Tom_L: brass or SS?
06:12 AM archivist: spring steel blued
06:12 AM jthornton: I have something bigger than a mouse coming in the florida room at night
06:13 AM archivist: Tom_L, http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2009/2009_09_10_Starturn_cnc_lathe/P1010035.JPG
06:13 AM jthornton: https://www.mcmaster.com/#spring-steel/=1b91gzn
06:14 AM jthornton: archivist: how wide is the clock spring cover?
06:15 AM archivist: without removal it is only a guess at about 3/4 could be less
06:16 AM jthornton: I'd think as you get wider you would want thinner material
06:17 AM archivist: more turns needed if wider
06:17 AM Tom_L: this will need to be 10" wide min
06:17 AM Tom_L: on Y anyway
06:17 AM jthornton: shim stock only comes in 3" and 6" that I've seen
06:18 AM Tom_L: i found some 12" i think it was
06:18 AM Tom_L: 12" by 10'
06:18 AM archivist: 6x12 ish use sideways
06:19 AM Tom_L: https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Raw-Materials/Shim-Stock/Metal-Shim-Stock?product_id=nv&navid=12101785&pcrid=183709198301&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5Mj-sYbu2AIViG5-Ch1y6gdLEAAYAiAAEgK5IfD_BwE&cid=ppc-google-_s2YqRfmiO__b_183709198301_c_S&mkwid=s2YqRfmiO%7Cdc#navid=12101785+4288245047
06:19 AM archivist: bend to couple a number of sheets so the slide and dont come uncoupled
06:20 AM Tom_L: how do you cut it without screwing up the edge?
06:20 AM archivist: I roll the edge after
06:21 AM archivist: very sharp scissors
06:21 AM Tom_L: yeah
06:21 AM Tom_L: that's what i used on the brass
06:21 AM jthornton: might be cheaper to just get some aluminum flashing at the store and experiment with that
06:22 AM Tom_L: next thing is how tight can you roll it without messing it up
06:22 AM Tom_L: i was thinking of a 1/2" to 3/4" tube
06:23 AM Tom_L: with a recoil spring inside
06:26 AM archivist: self rolling stainless is just a version of clock spring, in the UK Tensator make it for barriers
06:26 AM Tom_L: ok, gotta run.
06:28 AM archivist: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Steel-shield-machine-tool-accessories-guide-shield-retractable-cover-sheet-metal-sheet-metal-modular-machine-tool/32373696967.html
07:35 AM gloops: how easy does your z drop on the ballscrew?
07:36 AM gloops: straight down or just a bit, need some coaxing to drop
07:38 AM gloops: taking some force to wind up by hand, obviously more weight, but doesnt drop when you let go, maybe a couple of turns
07:38 AM Frank_10: hi guys
07:40 AM Frank_10: in having problems; my keyboard shortcuts wont work; except for numbers to change override and f1 f2 and such. any advice?
07:41 AM Frank_10: for example pause; ctrl+k resume;
07:41 AM Frank_10: wont work
07:41 AM gregcnc_: caps lock?
07:43 AM Frank_10: jesus christ
07:43 AM Frank_10: u make me feel stupid u know that?
07:44 AM Frank_10: lol
07:44 AM gregcnc_: imo caps shouldn't matter for linuxcnc, but that's just me
07:44 AM Frank_10: make it 2
07:44 AM gregcnc_: it's happened to me
07:44 AM Frank_10: whats toggle optional pause alt+m1?
07:45 AM gregcnc_: not sure
07:46 AM Frank_10: = )
07:49 AM JT-Shop: caps gives you 26 more keys...
07:49 AM gregcnc_: and the potential for error
07:50 AM gregcnc_: be careful, ymmv, carpe diem and all that
07:54 AM gregcnc_: finally a left handed lathe, https://swmi.craigslist.org/tls/d/vintage-antique-metal-lathe/6454962841.html
07:55 AM gloops: looks a bit basic
07:59 AM gregcnc_: typical turret lathe
07:59 AM * archivist reassembles so it can work
07:59 AM archivist: old and rusty and too expensive
08:01 AM archivist: eccentric ?
08:04 AM gloops: could be, still trying to ascertain if the plates are parallel
09:02 AM Loetmichel: hmm, any laserpeople here? If so, do you think this laser will do a 0,1mm sheet fo nylon felt sputtered with nickel, a glue layer and some oil paper backing? (i.E. some EMI filter tape)
09:02 AM Loetmichel: https://de.aliexpress.com/item/450-nm-5500-mW-12-V-High-Power-Laser-Modul-haben-TTL-Einstellbarer-Fokus-Blauer-Laser/1000005122092.html
09:07 AM archivist: tell us after you tried it
09:09 AM Frank_10: who chose pink as the preview toolpath already done lol
09:21 AM jesseg: Loetmichel, if it really delivers 5w5 of heat to the target it might work. That's a whole lot of energy if focused to a pinpoint.
09:21 AM jesseg: But 450nM? isn't that about green?
09:22 AM jesseg: ahh blue
09:23 AM jesseg: I just don't know how much heating affect that will have. Should be OK, but really have to try it to know :D
09:32 AM * gloops throws z bracket away and starts again
09:40 AM IchGucksLive: hi
09:41 AM IchGucksLive: XXCoder: did you feel the shake
09:41 AM gloops: hello
09:42 AM Loetmichel: thats the stuff i want to laser: https://www.cmc-klebeband.de/media/files/80782.pdf
09:46 AM Loetmichel: and thats how it looks, not THAT reflective: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16946&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
09:50 AM IchGucksLive: Loetmichel: only one
09:50 AM Loetmichel: IchGucksLive: hmm?
09:51 AM Loetmichel: ... its supposed to replace the top layer of brass here: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16631&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
09:52 AM Loetmichel: ... and i am honestly fed up with the co-worker sitting in the sowrkshop for 3 days now with a hammer and a punch and making holes in those "tape" sheets
09:55 AM gloops: today is the most depressing day of the year according to psychologists
09:57 AM archivist: that reminds me, have to take daisy to see trick cyclist tomorrow for her weekly session
10:49 AM Jymmm: gloops: Is that like "I'll see you yesterday" sorta thing?
10:59 AM gloops: well it doesnt affect me of course Jymmm
11:34 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:37 AM IchGucksLive: hi Radicarian i spend one ight at amtrack station bufalo as train broke apart with 5Lokomotive not working
12:08 PM Crom: Bellville washers came in, going to have to turn off 3/8" from my drawbar bolt head
12:43 PM Tom_L: gloops, my Z stays but there's not much weight on it really. it doesn't take much to move it either way
12:43 PM IchGucksLive: someone felt the eathshake
12:43 PM Tom_L: i can move it either way with my finger on the pulley (stepper disconnected)
12:46 PM gloops: Tom_L im pretty ok with it, its like you say yours is, ive have messed about with it to try to get it to run down it goes a few turns and stops, i guess thats near enough
12:46 PM Tom_L: if i coax it a little it will drop but not with the stepper attached
12:47 PM gloops: it does seem a lot of weight for a stepper to pull back up though, have to see what happens when motor is on
12:47 PM Tom_L: i'm not even sure i need a counterweight with that little sherline spindle on it
12:47 PM Tom_L: i'm only running them at 2.5A right now and they're good for 5
12:48 PM Tom_L: i may not need to bump up the stepper drivers :)
12:48 PM Tom_L: so far they run ice cold
12:48 PM Tom_L: well, not quite... but you get the idea
12:48 PM gloops: i might be ok, your z must be as heavy as mine surely, mines only a plate and a little spindle
12:49 PM Tom_L: probably quite similar i bet
12:49 PM Tom_L: 2 1/4" plates and a 6" piece of 4" square tube
12:49 PM Tom_L: the aluminum backing plate and the motor etc
12:50 PM gloops: ive got 8x16 inch plate, 1/2 inch thick, spindle bracket is probably a couple of pounds, and spindle
12:50 PM Tom_L: even assembled i moved it from one workbench to the other but i wouldn't want to stand there and talk about it very long
12:51 PM Tom_L: i could probably have run Z direct too but i wasn't sure
12:52 PM Tom_L: i did get a set of 2:1 pulleys i could switch to instead of the 3:1
12:53 PM Tom_L: maybe i'll go out and tune on it a bit today
12:53 PM gloops: actually might help me to put pulleys on, i wont till ive tried it though, it only misses ceiling by 2 inch with motor stright on top of screw heh
12:53 PM gloops: have you done any cutting yet Tom?
12:53 PM Tom_L: no
12:53 PM Tom_L: it's gonna be a while for that
12:54 PM Tom_L: i wanna square it all up and get some sort of way covers
12:54 PM Tom_L: those little things take time
12:55 PM gloops: yeah, i keep thinking ill be done in a couple of days - realistically a couple of weeks with all that stuff
12:57 PM fragalot: o/
12:57 PM miss0r: hello
01:00 PM gloops: have posted pics to scotch the rumour about my imaginary machine miss0r
01:01 PM fragalot: no you haven't
01:02 PM gloops: youve seen them fragalot
01:02 PM fragalot: lies
01:02 PM fragalot: :3
01:03 PM `Wolf: ^
01:03 PM * `Wolf hasnt see any
01:04 PM `Wolf: seen*
01:04 PM gloops: https://ibb.co/cXfTib
01:04 PM fragalot: photoshop$
01:05 PM gloops: next build is 4 axis
01:06 PM * `Wolf looks at the welds and suggests buying a better grinder =P
01:07 PM gloops: ahh yes, pretty skilled work - vertical stick welding
01:07 PM gloops: i can touch those bits up later
01:07 PM `Wolf: if you don’t weld often and those are stick welds, not too bad =D
01:08 PM roycroft: crappy welds are why god created hammered paint
01:09 PM `Wolf: and 7” angle grinders aka metal eraser
01:10 PM roycroft: hammered paint is one of two miracle products that prop up asian manufacturing
01:10 PM roycroft: the other being bondo
01:10 PM `Wolf: damn body filler...
01:10 PM `Wolf: this Jet mill...
01:11 PM fragalot: my rf45 is like 60% body filler, 20% paint, 10% casting sand, and 10% pot-metal
01:11 PM methods_: lol
01:11 PM `Wolf: transfer punch for mounting DRO, hole was off because 4mm of body fill lol
01:11 PM fragalot: same, lol
01:11 PM Jymmm: fragalot: ...and 200% duct tape, and 400% bailing wire ;)
01:12 PM gloops: no time for cosmetics here
01:12 PM fragalot: There is no duct-tape or baling wire on it. :P
01:12 PM fragalot: I do have to say though, that the 3kW motor that it has is more than the spindle can probably take
01:13 PM roycroft: duct tape and bailing wire are hillbilly materials, not asian materials
01:13 PM Jymmm: roycroft: They have hills in china
01:13 PM roycroft: but not billies
01:13 PM roycroft: asians try to cover up their sloppy workmanship
01:13 PM roycroft: hillbillies celebrate it
01:13 PM roycroft: hence the different materials
01:14 PM gregcnc_: they only cover it if someone is paying
01:14 PM Jymmm: roycroft: Beijing Billy... http://www.accessonline.com/galleries/beijing-billy-asks-whos-the-biggest-hollywood-star-in-china-1496/
01:16 PM * `Wolf goes back to milling 5/8” t-bolts to 9/16” slot clearance
01:18 PM * Jymmm welds Wolf__'s 9/16 t-bolts to 3/4"
01:18 PM * fragalot case hardens them
01:18 PM fragalot: and cover with diamond grit, because why not
01:19 PM `Wolf: lol, that would suck if they were hardened
01:20 PM * Jymmm coats the case hardened diamond grit tbolts in twopartepoxy then glitter
01:21 PM fragalot: skip the epoxy
01:21 PM fragalot: just glitter
01:21 PM fragalot: the finer, the better
01:21 PM Jymmm: fragalot: Yeah, you're right. Maybe water then glitter?
01:21 PM fragalot: fragile ziplock bag with glitter
01:22 PM Jymmm: fragalot: Nah, the bag would "contain" the glitter too much, we want it in every nook and cranny
01:22 PM `Wolf: yeah, no thanks lol
01:22 PM fragalot: Jymmm: hence fragile
01:23 PM fragalot: the minute you put it down, the bolt pieres the bag a tiny bit
01:23 PM fragalot: each time it's handled, another tear starts releasing more glitter
01:23 PM Jymmm: fragalot: That would just dump it in one area, I'm thinking a trail of it... EVERYWHERE
01:23 PM fragalot: I like you.
01:23 PM Jymmm: haha =)
01:25 PM MarcelineVQ: and you can save money but not using much. we had family visit and one of them had a little bit of glitter in their bag they brought groceries in, no loose, but stuck to the bag fibers. yet a month later I'm still cleaning it off random spots of our house, floore, furniture, faces
01:26 PM MarcelineVQ: *by not using much
01:26 PM MarcelineVQ: glitter is the herpes of craft supplies, as a certain comedian once said
01:26 PM `Wolf: i have glitter out in the wood shop, just looking at the bottles of it you end up with it on you
01:27 PM roycroft: glitter is becoming the new microplastic beads
01:27 PM Jymmm: MarcelineVQ: No need to "save", I'm thinking like a pound should do nicely and exceed 200 years of finding it EVERYWHERE =)
01:27 PM roycroft: it creates an environmental mess that only becomes worse as attempts are made to contain it/clean it up
01:27 PM `Wolf: it not bad when you mix it in clear epoxy lol
01:28 PM MarcelineVQ: wait those are plastic? huh, I had no idea, what else would they be I supose
01:28 PM MarcelineVQ: the beads I mean
01:28 PM roycroft: microplastic beads are incredibly harmful
01:28 PM MarcelineVQ: synthetic clothes fibres are even worse but no one wants to tackle that whale
01:28 PM Tom_L: better than bringing aluminum "glitter" shavings in thru the back door to later find them barefoot in the dark
01:29 PM roycroft: they are all but impossible to filter, and they kill massive amounts of sea life
01:29 PM * roycroft only wears natural fabrics
01:29 PM roycroft: environmental reasons notwithstanding, synthetic fibers are uncomfortable to wear
01:29 PM roycroft: most are highly flammible
01:29 PM gloops: just needs a new fercious strain of bacteria to digest everything made of plastic
01:29 PM gloops: ferocious
01:30 PM MarcelineVQ: gloops: hehe, until that bacteria eats oil instead, woops
01:30 PM roycroft: or make biodegradable plastics
01:30 PM roycroft: which is not hard to do
01:30 PM roycroft: or not use so many plastics
01:30 PM roycroft: i'm certainly not an advocate of banning all plastics
01:30 PM `Wolf: or both
01:31 PM roycroft: but we use plastics where there are cheap alternatives
01:31 PM roycroft: we overpackage things
01:32 PM gregcnc_: https://goo.gl/oXYJkG
01:33 PM MarcelineVQ: aw, that's so sad :<
01:33 PM MarcelineVQ: what mongoloid can't be assed to massage open an orange
01:35 PM fragalot: gregcnc_: what, no multi-packs?
01:35 PM gloops: education is important, a lot of kids here dont know where vegetables come from, they think theyre made somewhere
01:35 PM gregcnc_: https://goo.gl/uePXFK
01:35 PM roycroft: not to mention that an orange in its skin can be stored for months, while a peeled orange has a shelf life of a few days at most
01:35 PM roycroft: so half those packaged peeled oranges are tossed by the market as they spoil
01:36 PM roycroft: and you know that the market is not going to eat the shrink cost
01:36 PM roycroft: it's going to pass that cost on to consumers
01:36 PM roycroft: not to mention the cost of packaging
01:36 PM gloops: the EU made a mass of regulations on that, bananas have to be straight, apples have to fit through a hole in a gauge etc
01:36 PM gloops: 2 million pages of bureaucracy on food
01:36 PM MarcelineVQ: well, aside from syphoning cash, that's all the EU is for
01:36 PM roycroft: we used to have square tomatoes
01:36 PM fragalot: gloops: quit spreading that bullshit
01:37 PM gloops: fragalot you know im telling the truth
01:37 PM roycroft: they packed densely, bruised less, but tasted like crap
01:37 PM gregcnc_: https://goo.gl/QE9sgk
01:37 PM roycroft: i don't see them in the markets any more
01:37 PM fragalot: roycroft: actually there are ways to extend the shelf-life by adding (harmless) things just before closing the package.
01:37 PM gloops: i dont want to get political though, im just saying there is an incredible amount of waste
01:38 PM fragalot: gloops: just like that "truth" about the regulations on pillows?
01:38 PM roycroft: not being wasteful should not be a political issue
01:38 PM MarcelineVQ: harmless eh? :> I read a sour cream ingredients label recently, didn't know you needed ingredients in sour cream, I​ regret doing this, there were ingredients.
01:38 PM roycroft: if anything, it would be a "conservative" issue, would it not?
01:38 PM fragalot: MarcelineVQ: what i'm talking about is harmless
01:39 PM roycroft: packing in nitrogen would extend the shelf life
01:39 PM roycroft: it's oxidation that causes fruit to spoil
01:39 PM gloops: 'Under the present regulations, Class 1 cucumbers must be "practically straight" and be bent by a gradient of no more than 1/10. '
01:39 PM fragalot: roycroft: nitrogen, minute amount of alcohol (aroma), or benefitial bacteria are indeed common
01:40 PM fragalot: gloops: That has not been the case since 2009
01:40 PM gloops: this is a matter of keeping prices up and controlling the supply, in its early days the EU amssed mountains of wheat and butter, everything - the answer - dump 2/3rds of it
01:41 PM gloops: terrible scandalous policies when people are starving
01:41 PM fragalot: gloops: outdated information, and by spreading it as factual information you are part of the problem
01:42 PM gloops: fragalot show me the complete EU regulations on foodstuffs
01:42 PM gloops: current up to date - there are millions of pages
01:43 PM fragalot: give me a moment
01:44 PM gregcnc_: calm down or i'll send you some https://goo.gl/oL3DjP
01:44 PM gloops: we can buy cheaper food from africa, and help africans by doing so - but the EU forbids it
01:44 PM fragalot: gloops: regulation EC 2257/94, which described the quality standards for bananas, was repealed on 10th of december 2011 by implementing 1333/2011
01:45 PM fragalot: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLEG:1994R2257:20060217:EN:PDF
01:45 PM gloops: and the UK will buy from africa soon
01:45 PM fragalot: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32011R1333
01:46 PM gloops: thats only 1 thing though, there are thousands of other pointless regs on fruit
01:46 PM fragalot: gloops: most of these are standards for marketing
01:47 PM fragalot: none of them prevent the sale
01:47 PM fragalot: just like you can purchase different classes of oak flooring boars
01:47 PM fragalot: boards*
01:50 PM gloops: its protectionism fragalot
01:50 PM gloops: if africa can sell to the EU, how come the UK cant after brexit?
01:50 PM fragalot: gloops: show me where this has been forbidden
01:51 PM fragalot: and don't say you read it on the side of a bus
01:51 PM fragalot: :P
01:51 PM gloops: it might not be illegal, but it is certainly made impractical and unprofitable
01:51 PM fragalot: how so
01:51 PM gloops: as we are threatened with every day
01:52 PM fragalot: its no different than before UE
01:52 PM fragalot: EU*
01:52 PM gloops: tariffs, regulations etc
01:52 PM fragalot: before you had to cross many borders to get something across, often paying at each border
01:52 PM fragalot: today, you cross only one.
01:52 PM fragalot: that's the common market, and it is a great thing to have happened
01:52 PM roycroft: gloops has an irrational hatred of and fear of the eu, and anything he says about it is clouded by that
01:53 PM fragalot: the fact that the UK will leave the common market by it's own choice, however is not to be blamed on the EU
01:53 PM gloops: https://capx.co/how-the-eu-starves-africa-into-submission/
01:54 PM gloops: germany makes more from coffee than africa
01:54 PM gloops: 7.5% tariff on roasted coffee, why is that?
01:54 PM roycroft: brexites want unfettered access to the european market but want to be completely unburdened with any regulations at all
01:54 PM gloops: why are we paying twice for coffee?
01:54 PM roycroft: brexiters
01:55 PM gloops: germany doesnt produce coffee, why should it alone have the rights to roast it?
01:55 PM fragalot: gloops: That's actually a fairly low percentage, as import rates go
01:55 PM gloops: its enough
01:55 PM roycroft: because roasted coffee should be consumed within days or it tastes like shite?
01:55 PM fragalot: germany has no exclusivity
01:56 PM MrHindsight: roasting is a special skill, just ask Starbucks, they have made billions fooling people with burned coffee
01:56 PM roycroft: it makes perfect sense from a quality point of view to ship green coffee beans to where they will be consumed and then roast them locally
01:56 PM fragalot: ^
01:56 PM * roycroft cannot tolerate starbucks coffee - it is absolute swill
01:57 PM gregcnc_: mrhindsight tried concious cup?
01:57 PM gloops: and africans not only have that skill but badly need to enter technological fields and keep up
01:57 PM MrHindsight: gregcnc_: yeah
01:57 PM roycroft: if i were in africa i would want african-roasted coffee
01:57 PM roycroft: but i'm not
01:57 PM roycroft: and i absolutely do not want coffee that was roasted halfway around the world
01:57 PM gregcnc_: I like their stuff, I'm a coffee snob now
01:57 PM gloops: so africans can never roast their own coffee ok
01:58 PM fragalot: of course they can
01:58 PM MrHindsight: africans are always exploited
01:58 PM roycroft: who ever suggested that africans should not be able to roast their own coffee?
01:58 PM gloops: fragalot no they cant because they cant sell it
01:58 PM MrHindsight: that whole superiority of the white man thing
01:58 PM gloops: they can only sell the crude to germany
01:58 PM roycroft: i don't know if that's true or not
01:58 PM roycroft: i really don't care
01:59 PM roycroft: because again, i don't know why any german would want to buy coffee that was roasted a long time ago in a continent far away
01:59 PM MrHindsight: I have good roasted coffee from Germany in a bag
01:59 PM gregcnc_: is there an export market for roasted beans?
01:59 PM roycroft: i think that about 100% of coffee imported into the us is green
01:59 PM MrHindsight: but yeah, fresher is always more better
01:59 PM roycroft: because it is STUPID to roast it and then ship it
02:00 PM roycroft: and NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND wants that
02:00 PM fragalot: gloops: Japan: roasted coffee, 20%
02:00 PM MrHindsight: roycroft: unless it makes a profit
02:00 PM fragalot: gloops: switzerland, fixed rage of 0.69 CHF/kg
02:00 PM roycroft: it won't make a profit if people won't buy it
02:00 PM MrHindsight: most people don't give a damn about anything else
02:00 PM fragalot: gloops: russian, 10%
02:00 PM fragalot: gloops: Denmark, 25%
02:01 PM roycroft: while there are surely legitimate complaints about eu regulations, i would say that an alleged ban on the import of roasted coffee is a poor example
02:01 PM MarcelineVQ: what are these %'s?
02:01 PM gloops: fat French farmers living like kings - 7%
02:01 PM fragalot: MarcelineVQ: import tax on roasted coffee beans
02:01 PM MarcelineVQ: hmm? if it's one market why are there seperate import %'s
02:02 PM fragalot: gloops: Tunesia, 36%
02:02 PM fragalot: gloops: Turkey, 13%
02:02 PM roycroft: fortunately we have at least a half a dozen commercial coffee roasters here in eugene
02:02 PM roycroft: not to mention all the coffee houses who roast their own beans
02:03 PM roycroft: western oregon is certainly not folger's country
02:03 PM fragalot: gloops: the USA has no import tariff for coffee beans, but where the hell would they get them from and have them arrive fresh anyhow
02:03 PM gloops: well, we somehow seem to have excused german profiteering at the expense of struggling africans but ok
02:03 PM roycroft: what?
02:03 PM gloops: not to mention the long suffering british consumer paying through the nose
02:03 PM roycroft: you're making less than zero sense, gloops
02:03 PM fragalot: xD
02:04 PM roycroft: pick a better regulation to complain about :)
02:04 PM roycroft: or better yet
02:04 PM roycroft: stop complaining about the eu
02:04 PM roycroft: you'll be out of it soon enough
02:04 PM gregcnc_: what do coffee beans cost EX africa?
02:05 PM gloops: we will put our old friends back on course soon enough
02:05 PM fragalot: the colonies? :D
02:05 PM gloops: commonwealth
02:05 PM roycroft: the disintegrating commonwealth
02:06 PM fragalot: gregcnc_: between 400 to 700 US cents / lb
02:06 PM gloops: the commonwealth is growing far faster than the EU
02:06 PM roycroft: and if the queen does not outlive her son, the commonwealth may fall apart quickly
02:07 PM gloops: the eu will be gone in 10 years
02:07 PM roycroft: all signs are that she is stubborn enough to outlive him though
02:07 PM fragalot: gloops: also, the reason germany sticks out, is because germany is THE largest consumer of coffee.
02:07 PM fragalot: gloops: which is why they roast locally
02:07 PM fragalot: http://www.ico.org/documents/icc-107-7e-tariffs-trade.pdf
02:08 PM fragalot: page 16, look at germany's consumption
02:08 PM fragalot: it's almost half of the USA's consumption
02:09 PM gloops: most convenient
02:09 PM gregcnc_: forgot about coffee futures, 1.21USD/lb per 37,500Lb contract
02:12 PM MrHindsight: what is a good UK brand of coffee?
02:12 PM * roycroft consumes 6kg/year of coffee
02:13 PM roycroft: that puts me well above the per-capita consumption rate
02:13 PM MrHindsight: roycroft: another thing is sometimes people just miss certain tastes, even if they might be bad, Jack-in-the-box tacos for instance
02:13 PM gloops: MrHindsight i usually get fireside brand, the mrs has nescafe
02:14 PM MrHindsight: we don't have them here back east so I always stop by to get sick on them when traveling west
02:14 PM * roycroft has never had anything from jack-in-the-box
02:14 PM fragalot: xD
02:14 PM roycroft: i'm not much of a fast foods person
02:14 PM MrHindsight: deep fried meat product in a shell
02:14 PM roycroft: i know i'm a bit odd
02:14 PM roycroft: but when i travel i prefer to eat the local cuisine
02:15 PM gloops: i dont drink that much coffee anyway
02:15 PM MrHindsight: net here either, just a taste from childhood
02:15 PM roycroft: i like to experience new and different things
02:15 PM gloops: you cant beat tea
02:15 PM roycroft: i drink one cappuccino/day
02:15 PM roycroft: i usually drink one or two cups of tea/day
02:15 PM roycroft: i have my cappuccino in the morning
02:15 PM MrHindsight: Nescafe is all over, I get it in asia
02:15 PM roycroft: a cup of tea at tea time, when it's convenient
02:15 PM roycroft: and a cup of tea after dinner
02:16 PM MrHindsight: Hello Boss and Mr. Brown comes in cans, it's another thing I miss at times
02:16 PM roycroft: we have some nice tea suppliers here in eugene
02:16 PM MrHindsight: same for some bad beers
02:16 PM roycroft: so i'm able to get good, fresh tea leaves for a reasonable price
02:17 PM MrHindsight: roycroft: but yeah, most of the time I'm a snob as well
02:17 PM roycroft: i'm a homebrewer
02:17 PM roycroft: i rarely drink commecial beers
02:17 PM roycroft: it's easier to just go out to the kegerator and pour a pint
02:17 PM MrHindsight: roycroft: I left the pub the other day since they no longer had the Duchess on tap
02:17 PM roycroft: and better quality too
02:17 PM MrHindsight: only in bottles
02:18 PM roycroft: but we have a dozen or more microbreweries here
02:18 PM roycroft: so if i do want to go to a pub, there are lots of choices for good local beers
02:18 PM roycroft: last time i counted we had four cideries
02:18 PM roycroft: a braggotry
02:18 PM roycroft: three meaderies
02:19 PM MrHindsight: I go out tasting beers a few times a year... not too much new and good
02:19 PM roycroft: so lots of choices for fresh, local refreshing beverages
02:19 PM roycroft: i won't drive while even slightly intoxicated
02:19 PM MrHindsight: we do have a couple beer pubs that bring in kegs from your neck of the woods
02:19 PM fragalot: i tried some new beers from a hipster brewery here
02:19 PM fragalot: my god. it was. awful.
02:19 PM MrHindsight: they sell out really fast
02:19 PM roycroft: which is another reason i prefer to head out to my kegerator
02:19 PM roycroft: hipsters drink pbr
02:19 PM fragalot: one of the things they brewed was an IPA.. and IPA's honestly just take like drain-o
02:19 PM roycroft: i can't imagine them brewing decent beer
02:19 PM MrHindsight: fragalot: yeah lots of new breweries that just make swill
02:20 PM fragalot: but to be fair, they did nail the taste.
02:20 PM roycroft: i live in the land of ipa
02:20 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: actually there are a few local breweries (eg. down the street :D) that are AWESOME
02:20 PM MrHindsight: drain-o is better :)
02:20 PM fragalot: just you get the odd one out that's shite
02:20 PM roycroft: and i got so burned out on ipas in the '80s i can hardly tolerate one now
02:20 PM MrHindsight: they could even ruin drain-o
02:20 PM roycroft: i brew an ipa every couple years or so, just so i don't getkicked out of oregon
02:21 PM MrHindsight: yeah, I don't touch IPA's
02:21 PM roycroft: but it's really one of my least favorite beer styles
02:21 PM MrHindsight: I'm pretty much just sours, lambics, flanders red...
02:21 PM fragalot: roycroft: come to belgium, and i'll teach you the way.
02:21 PM roycroft: i brew lots of belgians
02:22 PM roycroft: i brew a belgian strong dark ale that is fairly close to westvlateren 12
02:22 PM roycroft: that's pretty strong stuff though
02:22 PM roycroft: and while i love it, i can't drink it often
02:22 PM roycroft: probably my go-to belgian style is a dubbel
02:23 PM roycroft: i've brewed a number of tripels though, and i do enjoy them
02:24 PM MrHindsight: you guys might know (or at least an opinion) whats the diff these days between double, triple and quads?
02:24 PM fragalot: roycroft: impressive
02:24 PM roycroft: dubbel, tripel, and quad ostensibly have to do with the original gravity of the beer
02:24 PM roycroft: but they're really made quite differently
02:24 PM roycroft: dubbel uses a lot of darker, caramel malts
02:25 PM roycroft: and dark candi syrup
02:25 PM roycroft: as does a quad
02:25 PM roycroft: a tripel, though, is pilsner and pale malt, with 15% inverrt sugar
02:25 PM roycroft: very light bodied and light colored
02:26 PM roycroft: a dubbel has an original gravityh in the 1.060-1.070 range
02:26 PM * fragalot is the typical belgian that has a selection of ~250 unique beers in his cellar
02:26 PM roycroft: a tripel 1.070-1.075
02:26 PM fragalot: on average
02:26 PM roycroft: and a quad usually starts at 1.090
02:26 PM roycroft: i use the same yeast for all three - it comes from westmalle
02:26 PM MrHindsight: fragalot: I store mine at the store :)
02:27 PM fragalot: it's no good when it's at the store, MrHindsight :D
02:28 PM MrHindsight: roycroft: thanks, I've gotten all sorts of stories
02:29 PM MrHindsight: http://www.the-odin.com/bacterial-crispr-and-fluorescent-yeast-combo-kit/
02:29 PM MrHindsight: glow in the dark beer
02:31 PM gloops: a lot of so called 'craft' beers starting up here again
02:31 PM gloops: real beers
02:31 PM fragalot: gloops: you're from the UK
02:32 PM fragalot: you have no "real" beers
02:32 PM * fragalot runs
02:32 PM gloops: we invented beer
02:32 PM MrHindsight: they make some great whiskeys
02:32 PM gloops: we're also the best drinkers of beer
02:33 PM MrHindsight: gloops: I saw Beerfest and I think you came in 3rd :)
02:33 PM fragalot: gloops: no, you invented the continuous fermentation process, not beer.
02:37 PM gloops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h0opzHSn5U
02:38 PM fragalot: That is equal amounts of impressive and disgraceful :D
02:39 PM gloops: i cant find the vid - man here drank 8 pints very quick, didnt look like 8 pints would fit in him
02:41 PM fragalot: gloops: the UK does have one brilliant export product
02:41 PM fragalot: ayoade.
02:42 PM gloops: yes i thought you might like that
02:43 PM fragalot: hard not to
02:46 PM MrHindsight: fragalot: Richard?
02:46 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: Yes.
02:46 PM MrHindsight: heh, been binge watching Travelman
02:47 PM MrHindsight: fragalot: how touristy is belgium
02:48 PM MrHindsight: between March-early May?
02:48 PM fragalot: I actually have no idea.
02:48 PM gloops: lol
02:48 PM gloops: difficult to tell
02:48 PM * Jymmm gives fragalot TWO ideas so he has a spare
02:49 PM fragalot: I have an idea!
02:49 PM * fragalot goes to get a beer
02:49 PM gloops: for the most part belgium has been a kind of - non country
02:49 PM Jymmm: One free idea with every beer!!!
02:49 PM MrHindsight: we need a LCNC beer meetup
02:50 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: go to the opensource even t in february - FOSDEM
02:50 PM fragalot: promote LCNC there
02:50 PM fragalot: :D
02:50 PM Jymmm: MrHindsight: Whos has the LCNC beer robot dispenser?
02:50 PM MrHindsight: not my thing
02:50 PM MrHindsight: I could cobble one together by the end of the week
02:51 PM Jymmm: Hey, speaking of that... I'm looking at making a bot thing to put drives rails on to hdd, any ideads on how to orient them?
02:52 PM fragalot: say again?
02:52 PM MrHindsight: Jymmm: same drive every time?
02:53 PM MrHindsight: same model, same drive would be silly
02:53 PM Jymmm: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/yWwAAOSwa~hZZfUR/s-l500.jpg
02:53 PM Jymmm: kinda like that, but no screws, just two pins per rail
02:53 PM MrHindsight: fixture them both
02:53 PM Jymmm: MrHindsight: ALL 3.5" hdd's are the same dimensions
02:54 PM MrHindsight: how much are we automating?
02:54 PM fragalot: Jymmm: either fixture both, or play around with https://openmv.io/
02:54 PM Jymmm: MrHindsight: But hot to orient the rails in a hopper type scenario
02:54 PM MrHindsight: drives in a bin, bin of rails all randomly arranged?
02:54 PM fragalot: design the hopper to pre-align them like they do for screws, Jymmm
02:54 PM gloops: CD tray
02:54 PM Jymmm: fragalot: but how?
02:56 PM fragalot: Jymmm: I believe they make it so the vibratatory drum feeder's exit gate lets the screw "hang" to orient them all the same way, before it slowly turns sideways in the same orientation
02:56 PM Jymmm: fragalot: the drive rails, note the PINS... https://i.imgur.com/8S4Ad1U.jpg
02:57 PM fragalot: aha.
02:59 PM MrHindsight: Jymmm: are the rails just in bag or drum?
02:59 PM Jymmm: MrHindsight: bag
02:59 PM roycroft: actually, all 3.5" hard drives are not the same dimensions
02:59 PM roycroft: some of them are 1" high, some are 1.5" high
03:00 PM Jymmm: roycroft: screw hole placement on sides and bottom are
03:00 PM roycroft: the mounts are the same, yes
03:00 PM roycroft: sorry - if that's what was being discussed i missed the beginning of this
03:00 PM Jymmm: roycroft: no worries =)
03:01 PM MrHindsight: roycroft: he;s asking about automating assembling the rails to drives
03:01 PM MrHindsight: rails are in bags, drives are usually in boxes
03:01 PM fragalot: Jymmm: dump both drives and rails into a vibratory drum, let entropy solve your problem?
03:01 PM MrHindsight: lol
03:01 PM Jymmm: fragalot++
03:01 PM roycroft: or hire a lot of monkeys
03:02 PM roycroft: eventually you'll get what you need
03:02 PM Jymmm: roycroft: That is the CURRENT solution (literally)
03:02 PM Jymmm: roycroft: fur and poo gets EVERYWHERE
03:02 PM MrHindsight: Jymmm: are those the exact rails or just a reasonable facsimile?
03:02 PM Jymmm: MrHindsight: exact
03:03 PM fragalot: I can't think of a mechanical solution to make them all orient the exact same way
03:03 PM MrHindsight: I can do it with a robot
03:03 PM Jymmm: fragalot: I'm open to black amgic solutions too
03:03 PM fragalot: feeding them lengthways is possible, making the pins point the same way is possible, but can't think of a way to have the "nose" point the same way
03:04 PM fragalot: Jymmm: hence my "openvm.io" suggestion, lol
03:04 PM Jymmm: fragalot: Yeah, the monkeys are cheaper =)
03:04 PM fragalot: openmv*
03:04 PM MrHindsight: detect position and flip
03:04 PM fragalot: Jymmm: are they?
03:04 PM Jymmm: MrHindsight: The rails are tapered on one end fwiw
03:04 PM MrHindsight: yes I see
03:04 PM fragalot: a basic openmv camera module is only $70ish
03:05 PM MrHindsight: no problem with a robot and vision
03:05 PM Jymmm: fragalot: still needs to be oriented... "somehow"
03:05 PM fragalot: Jymmm: only flipped, if they are the wrong way 'round
03:05 PM Jymmm: fragalot: pin orientation too
03:05 PM fragalot: Jymmm: that can be done mechanically
03:06 PM Jymmm: fragalot: then how to "feed" it so they attach to the drives
03:06 PM MrHindsight: a belt with a gate that splits the belts into two belts
03:06 PM MrHindsight: one belt for each orientation
03:06 PM Rab: Send the rail down a channel or tube with a gate which won't clear the pin. The tapered end will reach further past the gate than the round end. If taper detected, open the gate; otherwise flip/kick back/whatever.
03:06 PM MrHindsight: yeah same ^^
03:06 PM Rab: Taper detected with photosensor or whatever.
03:06 PM Jymmm: Rab: nice idea, thanks =)
03:07 PM Jymmm: use air to "move" them in/hru the rails?
03:07 PM Jymmm: thru*
03:07 PM Jymmm: instead of belt fed?
03:07 PM Rab: That could work.
03:07 PM nallar is now known as Ross
03:07 PM fragalot: air is expensive though
03:07 PM MrHindsight: a gate that just separates the two orientations and then 180 one of the belts
03:08 PM MrHindsight: belt/channel/tube
03:08 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: either 180 or spit 'm back
03:08 PM Jymmm: MrHindsight: don't evne need to orient, just seperate, then flipp hopper
03:08 PM Jymmm: swap*
03:09 PM Jymmm: Rab: I think I'm going to work on that idea of yours
03:09 PM fragalot: oh you just want to fill the hoppers
03:09 PM MrHindsight: can you hire child labor?
03:09 PM fragalot: Rab's idea is indeed the most straightforward, lol
03:09 PM MrHindsight: or immigrants without papers?
03:10 PM * Jymmm lol @ MrHindsight, papers are easy to forge ;)
03:10 PM MrHindsight: so whats the problem?
03:10 PM Rab: To install, maybe a clamp with two halves that come up and press the rails into the HDD. Pneumatics might be cheaper/easier than electric motors.
03:10 PM MrHindsight: I'm working on a DNA database that can be eventually left on a cloud service for anyone to access :)
03:11 PM fragalot: Rab: certainly easier to control force with pneumatics
03:11 PM Jymmm: Rab: I was thinking pure mechanical... like loading staples into a staple gun.... just plce the hdd into a fixture, and when you do, it presses levers on each side putting the rails on, grab next hdd, repeat
03:12 PM MrHindsight: a robot is more flexible for when they downsize to 2.4" drives
03:12 PM fragalot: but overkill for what is needed
03:12 PM fragalot: all he'd need to do for a different size drive is change the fixture
03:12 PM fragalot: the motion stays the same
03:12 PM MrHindsight: what about my income?
03:12 PM Rab: So are the HDDs handled by an operator, or do they come in a hopper too?
03:13 PM MrHindsight: don't I (me, me as in me) deserve my income?
03:13 PM Jymmm: Rab: manual, thining way too fragile for this
03:13 PM miss0r: gloops, I just saw your machine, Nice job :)
03:13 PM fragalot: MrHindsight: Not yet.
03:15 PM Jymmm: Rab: 240 HDD's per pallet gets awfully heavy
03:15 PM miss0r: Slow progress on my edm spindle tonight: turned a recess for an O-ring in the shaft end & surface ground the bearing tensioning washer to size. Not much to show for 3 hours :)
03:16 PM MrHindsight: takes time
03:16 PM MrHindsight: getting it right
03:17 PM miss0r: The washer did, apparently I made the decision to turn it 0.5mm oversize.. That takes time on a surface grinder :]
03:17 PM fragalot: xD
03:18 PM miss0r: but now it is running quite well'n true
03:18 PM miss0r: The mini stepper wil get here tomorrow, No news on the motor brushes(which is the part that is realy holding me back)
03:20 PM miss0r: I need to take a picture of every part lined up neatly before doing the final assembly, just so you guys can see how many small i've (idioticly) designed into this thing :]
03:21 PM miss0r: A rough estimate is theres probally 50 parts inside this thing when it is done
03:22 PM miss0r: And easily the same amount in time machining it lol
03:24 PM gloops: yes, i wont be wondering why people take so long with these things again, my estimate of 2 weeks was pitifully low
03:25 PM miss0r: You've probally spend more time than that just waiting for parts :]
03:25 PM gloops: well that was from having all the parts lol
03:27 PM gloops: hours and hours can pass where nothing progresses
03:27 PM miss0r: :}
03:31 PM miss0r: Is there anything as beautiful as a perfectly tensioned bearing?
03:31 PM roycroft: a perfectly tensioned woman?
03:32 PM miss0r: How does that even work?
03:32 PM roycroft: you have to figure out how to perfectly tension her :)
03:32 PM roycroft: and that's the challenge
03:33 PM XXCoder: hey roycroft so did you call em complain about bearings? I only can read one you dinged me with
03:33 PM gloops: with this job, by the time it got to something feeling right, i was like - thank f for that, and turned the light off
03:33 PM miss0r: hmm.. leaving the toilet seat up generated 'some' tension. but the problem with woman vs. bearings - the same tension never works the same. I.e. leaving the toilet seat up is sometimes overtensioning things :P
03:33 PM roycroft: call who?
03:34 PM roycroft: miss0r: if i knew how to perfectly tension a woman i would no longer be a man
03:34 PM roycroft: because no man in history has ever figured that out
03:34 PM miss0r: You got me thinking of this: hehehe (~3mins) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezVib_giTFo
03:35 PM roycroft: leaving the toilet seat up clearly creates the wrong kind of tension
03:35 PM roycroft: the not perfect kind :)
03:36 PM XXCoder: company
03:36 PM XXCoder: one you bought it from?
03:36 PM miss0r: And this: LOL https://dankenney.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/men-vs-women-machine-picture.jpg
03:36 PM roycroft: i bought it off ebay
03:36 PM MrHindsight: just remove the seat and say it's easier to keep it clean that way
03:36 PM Rab: https://www.amazon.com/K-4636-0-Quiet-Close-Grip-Tight-Bumpers-Elongated/dp/B000TFHN56
03:36 PM roycroft: there is no path to resolution with the seller
03:36 PM roycroft: i bought it last fall
03:36 PM roycroft: i've ordered a new one from amazon in the meantime
03:37 PM roycroft: and purchased a 4 year extended warranty on it
03:37 PM XXCoder: drat :( can refarbinish it or something I guess, since no shorts
03:37 PM roycroft: the spindle itself is toast - bearings are not going to fix it
03:37 PM XXCoder: oh guess not
03:37 PM roycroft: www.roycroft.us/Spindle/Stator1.jpeg
03:37 PM roycroft: www.roycroft.us/Spindle/Stator2.jpeg
03:37 PM roycroft: www.roycroft.us/Spindle/Rotor1.jpeg
03:37 PM roycroft: www.roycroft.us/Spindle/Rotor2.jpeg
03:37 PM miss0r: speaking of woman... I better get back into the house before she sets off the firealarm. See you around
03:37 PM XXCoder: well cooked
03:38 PM roycroft: i didn't see that at first, until i got a better light
03:38 PM fragalot_: wow you really hoopajooped that one
03:39 PM MrHindsight: ............^^^^.... actual tech term
03:40 PM fragalot_ is now known as fragalot
03:40 PM fragalot: :)
03:41 PM gregcnc_: was the cause determined?
03:41 PM gloops: looks watery
03:42 PM roycroft: no water leaked into the spindle
03:42 PM roycroft: it was dry
03:42 PM roycroft: gregcnc_ the cause was the escape that the magic smoke made :)
03:42 PM roycroft: i still have no idea what happened
03:43 PM roycroft: enleth thinks it was defective when i got it
03:43 PM fragalot: I should probably test my spindle....
03:43 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: ouch
03:43 PM fragalot: remind me to do that tomorrow please?
03:43 PM gloops: ive probably killed mine drilling over it
03:43 PM Loetmichel: taht looks like the cooling jacket has a hole
03:43 PM sync: yeah I would suspect that it was broken
03:44 PM roycroft: when i get the replacement i'll do the resistance test between the coils before i apply power to it, and record the results
03:44 PM roycroft: we spent so much time yesterday going over my vfd configuration that i am fairly convinced that i did nothing wrong
03:44 PM roycroft: thanks again to all of you who helped me out on that, btw
03:45 PM roycroft: so when i get the replacement, i'll be sure to give it a good burn-in up front
03:45 PM roycroft: like run it for a couple hours or so
03:45 PM roycroft: if i had done that with the one that burned up i could have returned it as doa
03:45 PM Deejay: gn8
03:45 PM roycroft: of course, i have a 4 year warranty on the new one, so it's not as important
03:45 PM fragalot: until you try & claim
03:45 PM roycroft: but i still need to know asap if it's going to work or not
03:45 PM fragalot: "oh that exact fault is not covered"
03:46 PM roycroft: the warranty is from square trade
03:46 PM roycroft: i've used them before
03:46 PM roycroft: they will never replace anything
03:46 PM roycroft: but they're good at refunding the purchase price
03:47 PM roycroft: the problem is that if i buy a 4 year warranty and the unit fails, they cash me out and cancel the contract
03:47 PM roycroft: so i do lose the cost of the insurance contract
03:47 PM roycroft: when i buy the replacement i have to buy a new warranty, even if it's been way less than 4 years
03:47 PM roycroft: but that's still a fair deal, imo
03:47 PM roycroft: $19.90 for a 4 year warranty - just over 10% of the cost of the item
03:48 PM roycroft: i don't buy extended warranties often, especially on new stuff
03:48 PM roycroft: but i think that when getting random chinse stuff it might be a good idea
03:53 PM gloops: not so bad if you get a bit of work out of them first
03:54 PM gloops: bit sht when they croak before doing anything
04:04 PM XXCoder: roycroft: yeah I'd do so, after burning one
04:19 PM roycroft: i'd have been ok spending $175 on tuition to learn about motors and vfds
04:19 PM roycroft: i'm not ok spending $175 to learn that i should have bought an extended warranty
04:19 PM roycroft: but oh well, that happened
04:20 PM roycroft: although i did learn more about 3 phase motors and vfds yesterday while trying to sort out what was wrong with the spindle
04:27 PM gloops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spozIA60Am0&feature=youtu.be < think he might be in for a bit of a shock when he runs this, first one i made used round tube for bearing rails like that - not very good
05:09 PM MrHindsight: gloops: did you use matching rounded cam bearings?
05:10 PM MrHindsight: to match the bearing surface with the round rails?
05:12 PM gloops: MrHindsight no just standard cheapo bearings flat circumference
05:13 PM gloops: they slipped, the tube bent, endless adjusting bearings
05:13 PM `Wolf: that machine looks like a big wet noodle imo
05:14 PM gloops: hes put some work into that, probably better with some cheapo chinese rails for £100, not a days wages for a carpenter, bet it took him longer than that to make them
05:18 PM `Wolf: yeah, lot of work in to it and it looks nice
05:18 PM `Wolf: still probably rigid as a wet noodle
05:19 PM `Wolf: be ok for a plasma cutter
05:20 PM gloops: well, the y rails are too close together, not very big footprint for the x bearings, i dunno it might work ok slowly
05:20 PM gloops: i had 2 2.5 inch tubes like that for y, just bent them about 5mm when you pushed on the spindle
05:21 PM gloops: i also found there was always a slack bearing somewhere, always, no matter how much you tightened them
05:22 PM `Wolf: I work on commercial hook lift trucks, I’m pretty familiar with bending forces on things lol
05:22 PM gloops: i stood on a section of tube before i made it - it didnt seem to bend much at all, throw in a bit of leverage - useless
05:23 PM `Wolf: yup
05:30 PM gloops: i think a big reason people try to do it for nothing is that they arent confident enough that they can actually make the machine right, to invest a lot in, so the cycle of building improved and costlier versions starts
05:31 PM `Wolf: most people don’t take account for mechanical forces
05:33 PM gloops: true yeah, as i did , i just took a piece of steel and thought this will never bend, if you look at leverage properly and do some calculations you can see that it will easily deflect with very little force at the other end
05:33 PM gloops: 10lbs becomes 110lbs
05:34 PM `Wolf: I have 500ft-lb torque wrench in the shop =)
05:35 PM gloops: i think the biggest i did was a crankshaft pulley on a van, cant remember if it was 90lb or 90kg
05:35 PM gloops: it took some shifting i know that heh
05:36 PM `Wolf: also been known to need 10 foot cheater bars for things as well
05:36 PM gloops: 10ft bar is pretty serious
05:37 PM `Wolf: weird seeing 1/4” wall 2” tube bend when you are trying to get some thing to break free
05:38 PM `Wolf: bend/bow
05:38 PM gloops: theres quite a few 'ripping' bars knocking around here, 5ft solid bars about 1.5 inch thick, they used to use them down the coal mines for ripping coal off the rock face, mostly used to help cracking ball joints and wheel bearings off now
05:38 PM gloops: wheel nuts
05:39 PM `Wolf: we finally upgraded to a 1” drive impact gun
05:40 PM gloops: i dont know what makes wheel studs get stuck, ive had a few, were greased and easy turning before they went on
05:40 PM `Wolf: heating and cooling cycles
05:41 PM gloops: must be yeah
05:42 PM sync: greasing wheel studs is a good way to snap them
05:42 PM gloops: ive said its like theyre welded on - it probably is in a way
05:44 PM gloops: well i was told copper grease is ok
05:44 PM dioz: brave sir robin ran away
05:45 PM malcom2073: I can't imagine the look on the guys face, after putting this much money into a machine, realizing he can't actually cut much of anything with it: https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27066741_10156368552029252_6954812553617525426_n.jpg?oh=3c7fcd621407a0b92774a8cb3965b64c&oe=5ADC7704
05:46 PM sync: gloops: it does not make a difference which lubricant one uses
05:46 PM gloops: z axis looks pretty expensive lol
05:47 PM gloops: sync what is the reasoning behind it though - grease makes studs snap?
05:47 PM MarcelineVQ: your torque reading becomes wrong
05:47 PM sync: lowers the µ
05:47 PM dioz: is there usually tracks and channel/wheel or baring set?
05:48 PM dioz: i mean... on the market so to speak
05:48 PM MrHindsight: glass table?
05:48 PM `Wolf: malcom2073: thats a pretty looking mess there lol
05:48 PM dioz: or does one usually fabricate even the channeling and such
05:48 PM gloops: plate glass yeah, strong and fairly flat
05:48 PM MrHindsight: you're all such a bunch of haters, I'm going to cry now :)
05:49 PM MrHindsight: reminds me of #reprap
05:49 PM gloops: Marcel not usually bothered with torque settings for van studs, just tighten them till tight, than another half turn
05:49 PM `Wolf: looks like smoked polycarbonate sheet, not glass
05:50 PM dioz: tighten them till you hear the crack then loosten 'em off half a turn
05:50 PM dioz: heh
05:50 PM MrHindsight: it's so you can see what you are cutting from below
05:50 PM MarcelineVQ: omy, wheels are a place where torque is really important :X
05:50 PM gloops: could be poly or acrylic, pretty glossy though and clear
05:50 PM `Wolf: so you can watch the 10mm rods bending under the cutting force
05:50 PM MrHindsight: a gives it a very light and airy design aesthetic
05:51 PM `Wolf: it does look nice
05:51 PM MrHindsight: like you're cutting on air
05:51 PM gloops: as they say across the pond - all for show and not for blow
05:51 PM malcom2073: Lol MrHindsight I only hate, because I've *been there*, and seen it not work
05:51 PM malcom2073: So I cry tears of shared pain :)
05:52 PM dioz: would le chain have more backlash than say... direct drive gears?
05:52 PM `Wolf: gives me flash backs to watching my x1 mill attempting to do things lol
05:53 PM malcom2073: Heh
05:53 PM `Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/pNAvy1M.jpg new vise weighs more then the x1 lol
05:53 PM gloops: this time i only spent about 1k, its not the monetary cost im bothered about, its the time, if it doesnt work im going to smash it into fine particles with a sledge hammer, and grind those particles into dust
05:54 PM dioz: your stuff ain't never get used son. no dirt on it or nothin. should use them tools brother ;]
05:54 PM `Wolf: lol, that was 5min after I took it out of the box
05:54 PM dioz: just set 'em up nice and take pics boyyo?
05:54 PM dioz: jk jk ;]
05:55 PM MrHindsight: snazzy vise
05:55 PM `Wolf: pretty much, less cleanup that way
05:56 PM `Wolf: its getting used, https://i.imgur.com/IQixEwH.jpg
05:56 PM gloops: you have got some serious equipment there Wolf
05:57 PM dioz: tbh i think i picked up the wrong trade
05:57 PM malcom2073: Nice vise!
05:57 PM dioz: i imagine mechinist would be a cool job
05:57 PM malcom2073: I have an old kurt I found at auction and cleaned up
05:58 PM gloops: no chain wont have much backlash
05:58 PM `Wolf: yeah, well, shop went through a major upgrade when I bought out a guys basement shop lol
05:58 PM gloops: if tensioned
05:59 PM `Wolf: this is what I was using up till december https://i.imgur.com/Eh6BMmG.jpg
05:59 PM dioz: no but for serious. someone gimme a name brand for pre-made gantry channeling or runners or what-ever you wanna call it
05:59 PM MrHindsight: 4 years old https://ibin.co/3pF0QI7DwtSp.jpg Shars viseseses
06:00 PM gloops: aluminium extrusion, 90x60
06:00 PM gloops: x 2
06:01 PM `Wolf: dioz: for what size machine
06:01 PM dioz: 5 x 10 ?
06:01 PM MrHindsight: I should get a rotary table for the Bridgeport
06:01 PM `Wolf: foot?
06:01 PM gloops: 5x 10 inch should be ok
06:02 PM gloops: oh table size
06:02 PM dioz: plasma table
06:02 PM dioz: most stock sheets come 5 x 10
06:02 PM dioz: feet
06:02 PM `Wolf: yeah, alum extrude
06:02 PM `Wolf: 80/20 or the sort
06:02 PM dioz: galv iron
06:02 PM dioz: hah
06:02 PM gloops: you need bigger than 10x5 then
06:03 PM dioz: it's for duct fabrication
06:03 PM dioz: cutting out fittings
06:03 PM `Wolf: 5x10 would be the cutting area, but would actually want about 6’x11’
06:03 PM MrHindsight: malcom2073: do you use those wifi rf switches with a cloud service or with a local home automation controller?
06:03 PM gloops: 11x6 minimum, you need some overrun for the gantry
06:04 PM malcom2073: MrHindsight: I've been fiddlign with my own server and own firmware, not using their cloud stuff
06:04 PM `Wolf: I’m planning on doing a plasma that sized myself
06:04 PM MrHindsight: malcom2073: what software?
06:04 PM malcom2073: MrHindsight: My own
06:04 PM malcom2073: MrHindsight: There is open source software for them available though
06:04 PM MrHindsight: malcom2073: I've lost track of the Linux home automation stuff
06:04 PM dioz: i just wanna know a brand name for pre made channeling or the framing with the bearings and such
06:05 PM `Wolf: there isn’t any pre made for that size machine
06:05 PM gloops: just type it in ebay
06:05 PM malcom2073: https://github.com/mertenats/Itead_Sonoff
06:05 PM `Wolf: unless you buy a pre-made gantry
06:05 PM `Wolf: which is $$$
06:06 PM gloops: plasmas have evolved, from slow heavy things into very fast nimble machines
06:07 PM dioz: you ever thought of those bearing runners that a lot of pull out draws on a good tool box... how long them sections would come in?
06:07 PM dioz: or to what extent that design would scale?
06:07 PM `Wolf: dioz: https://8020.net https://torchmate.com/gallery/photo-gallery/Torchmate-Gallery/149
06:08 PM gloops: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3060-Aluminium-Extrusion-Slot-8-Profile-30mm-x-60mm-3D-Printer-CNC-30x60mm/191869325617?var=490911342094&hash=item2cac4d9131:m:mnKPE7qazebCRx56ldSQRQw
06:08 PM `Wolf: or you can steal some ideas from plasma cams tables
06:10 PM dioz: aluminium extrude
06:10 PM `Wolf: torch mate use to sell kit form stuff out of alum extrude
06:10 PM dioz: i just want the gantry
06:11 PM dioz: i think i got a few ideas though
06:11 PM gloops: 7ft gantry, hmm..enjoy! lol
06:11 PM dioz: i'm just wondering to what extent the market is kitted out
06:12 PM gloops: id go for a single beam
06:12 PM dioz: in such a manner
06:12 PM MrHindsight: that looks too light
06:12 PM `Wolf: fortunately cnc plasma only needs the gantry straight on one axis lol
06:12 PM MrHindsight: they have heavy versions of that size extrusion
06:12 PM dioz: i mean most shops looking to invest in such an apparatus owuld be able to existingly fabraicate some kind of bed
06:13 PM `Wolf: yup, they either have the skill/tooling in house to build it or just buy a turn key machine
06:13 PM MrHindsight: man chews phone, explodes https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/biting-smartphone-battery-explosion_us_5a677a1de4b0dc592a0d4988
06:14 PM gloops: MrHindsight yeah just an example, for 7ft you want something 8 inch deep or more, smaller stuff will sag even under its own weight at that length
06:15 PM gloops: i know a plasma doesnt put any force on but you may as well have a stiff beam
06:16 PM MrHindsight: the head has mass and velocity
06:16 PM MrHindsight: wet noodle CNC
06:17 PM MrHindsight: or make the table move
06:18 PM gloops: 11ft
06:18 PM dioz: it would be more than that
06:18 PM dioz: hah
06:18 PM dioz: more like 22 feet
06:18 PM gloops: and then you have the weight of the job
06:18 PM dioz: take out a section of land just for a table
06:19 PM dioz: yeehaw!
06:19 PM dioz: i guess i could just get good at manual drafting transitions and ogee's and transitional ogee's
06:19 PM gloops: dioz can you stretch to a fibre laser?
06:20 PM dioz: thing is i think i could make quick moneyy
06:20 PM dioz: need a pin spotter and a few rollers, probably a machine to do pitsburg or buttonlock seams
06:20 PM dioz: it would have to be able to do upto 20gauge galv iron
06:23 PM gloops: plasmas will soon be obsolete https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kN5iqVO67g
06:25 PM gloops: these cut at 50m/min
06:25 PM gloops: more
06:25 PM malcom2073: That is beautiful
06:25 PM `Wolf: puts a bigger dent in the pocketbook tho
06:26 PM * `Wolf wants one...
06:27 PM gloops: they cost more per table, but it isnt more expensive, it wipes out 10 plasma tables
06:28 PM `Wolf: cost more if you’re a 1 plasma table shop…
06:32 PM gloops: the big shops are moving to lasers, there will always be a place for the single plasma though i suppose, well for a long time to come anyway
06:33 PM pcw_mesa: that's a ~$1e6 machine
06:33 PM gloops: a small place couldnt store the steel to keep that going for a few days
06:35 PM dioz: how 2 prevent backlash on a large unit like that?
06:36 PM dioz: is it direct drive? pulley? chain?
06:36 PM dioz: hydraulik?
06:37 PM gloops: could be those funny roller rack and pinion things
06:37 PM gloops: very fast - no backlash
06:38 PM pcw_mesa: linear motors are probably the quickest (if you can afford them)
06:38 PM sync: yeah probably linear motors at that speed
06:38 PM gloops: https://www.nexengroup.com/nxn/products/prod-nav/lp/Roller+Pinion+System
06:38 PM sync: yup they use linear motors
06:38 PM gloops: these cost $6000 per metre
06:38 PM pcw_mesa: looked like it
06:39 PM sync: I mean, why not
06:39 PM pcw_mesa: $1e6 machine not an issue
06:39 PM sync: probably more
06:39 PM sync: with the automated sheet changer and everything
06:39 PM dioz: i'd say no backlash on moving metal would need to be a replacable in that sense
06:40 PM gloops: 11m/sec
06:40 PM dioz: you're gonna need to buy X every X amount of months
06:40 PM pcw_mesa: yeah that's the base price I found
06:40 PM gloops: ±30um (±0.00118 in.)
06:41 PM sync: that's actually not too bad imho
06:41 PM sync: if you have the works for such a machine you'll have that together in <2 years
06:42 PM pcw_mesa: I guess plasma is still better for thicker stock
06:42 PM dioz: you think you could build it out of wood and fabricate your own finger joint type jig and make it yourself?
06:42 PM dioz: i wonder how much the wood would shrink and expand
06:42 PM gloops: so maybe you can build a ship in the west these days again
06:42 PM gloops: if you can cut it out and weld it faster than 1000 pakistani craftsmen
06:42 PM sync: yeah pcw_mesa
06:43 PM sync: that and 5 axis watercutting
06:47 PM gloops: not much wear as - rollers, preloaded
06:50 PM dioz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_mLG4KwbLA
06:50 PM dioz: check that out
06:50 PM dioz: "wooden gear wear test"
06:50 PM dioz: matthias wandel if you've ever watched him
06:50 PM dioz: he's aight
06:51 PM dioz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pe4DrOqV0g
06:51 PM dioz: rack and pinion shed door
09:28 PM Tom_L: BeachBumPete
09:28 PM Tom_L: what's up?
09:29 PM BeachBumPete: Hey Tom
09:29 PM BeachBumPete: working in the new job trying to get settled in there
09:29 PM Tom_L: ahh you took the job
09:29 PM Tom_L: how do you like it?
09:30 PM BeachBumPete: well the shops a bit of a mess as they are in the process of moving to a larger building
09:30 PM BeachBumPete: and a couple of the guys there butt heads against each other a bit
09:30 PM BeachBumPete: but so far its not too bad.
09:30 PM BeachBumPete: Today I went to install some doors on an outside kitchen we built that goes on a roof pation
09:30 PM BeachBumPete: patio
09:31 PM BeachBumPete: the house was on Palm Beach Island right on the beach
09:31 PM BeachBumPete: Freaking magnificent home
09:31 PM BeachBumPete: the builder said it was something north of 60 million GASP
09:32 PM BeachBumPete: I took a bunch of pictures but we are not supposed to share them around online LOL
09:32 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqHV0Or4Ad8
09:33 PM Tom_L: yeah i've had to sign a NDA working in one guy's home
09:33 PM Tom_L: he's a billionaire
09:33 PM BeachBumPete: damn that looks slick as snot man
09:33 PM BeachBumPete: sounds good too
09:34 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRN00-0enYw&t=38s
09:34 PM BeachBumPete: have ya actually cut anything with it yet>>
09:34 PM Tom_L: no i'm still tuning it
09:34 PM Tom_L: then i need to adjust the axis for plum and true
09:35 PM Tom_L: not bad for a pile of scrap metal though
09:35 PM evilroot: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D22GgopmEVHdf8eV7QCou4ZfIZy_o-Vi/view?usp=sharing
09:35 PM evilroot: Mmmm, shiny printer is shiny
09:35 PM BeachBumPete: LOL it appeared a lot bigger until I saw the toolbox and the benchtop drill press in the periphery
09:35 PM Tom_L: large format printer
09:35 PM Tom_L: ?
09:36 PM evilroot: Yeah, just finished it up
09:36 PM evilroot: Beautiful machine
09:36 PM Tom_L: BeachBumPete, the box is 7" x 13" x 18" approx
09:36 PM Tom_L: evilroot what did you do to it?
09:37 PM BeachBumPete: damn that is a lot bigger than it looks
09:37 PM BeachBumPete: Working on another prototype rail here lately....wanna see?
09:37 PM evilroot: Tom_L: brand new belt
09:38 PM evilroot: And other general maintenance and lubrication, plus a few new ink tanks
09:38 PM Tom_L: sure
09:39 PM Tom_L: evilroot a guy here i go to for pc parts once in a while has a few of them. he wanted to know if i wanted one
09:39 PM evilroot: Cleanest, best condition I've ever seen
09:39 PM Tom_L: i really don't need one or have room for it
09:39 PM Tom_L: heh
09:39 PM evilroot: Was under HP contract until last year
09:39 PM Tom_L: blueprints?
09:40 PM evilroot: No, fine art
09:40 PM Tom_L: ahh
09:40 PM Tom_L: lotsa ink
09:40 PM evilroot: 12 ink system
09:40 PM Tom_L: BeachBumPete sure
09:40 PM evilroot: Hp Z3100 Photo 44"
09:41 PM evilroot: I've worked on plenty of large formats, but this one is an entirely different league. The output is amazing
09:41 PM BeachBumPete: https://i.imgur.com/W4gYVkS.jpg still working on it
09:41 PM dioz: BeachBumPete: i do
09:42 PM Tom_L: looks nice
09:42 PM dioz: rail for what?
09:42 PM Tom_L: paintball gun
09:42 PM Tom_L: or such
09:42 PM BeachBumPete: its for a precision Field Target Competition Air Rifle
09:42 PM BeachBumPete: LOL no not a paintball gun
09:43 PM Tom_L: well they both run off canned air :)
09:45 PM BeachBumPete: haha
09:45 PM dioz: perri-air?
09:45 PM BeachBumPete: well its bedtime Gn8 folks mill is looking great Tom.
09:46 PM Tom_L: thanks so does your site rail
09:46 PM evilroot: The rail systems on large format printers are rather fascinating
09:46 PM evilroot: That they can achieve that kind of accuracy at such high speeds using just a standard 24v DC motor and a belt
10:06 PM roycroft: large format printers have optical sensors that they use to calibrate the print head
10:06 PM roycroft: i don't know if they use those to index the head during an actual plot, or whether it's just used for calibration
10:15 PM MrHindsight: calibration
10:15 PM MrHindsight: the print scan is usually a tape for an encoder
10:16 PM MrHindsight: it's non contact so it doesn't have to deal with cutting forces
10:32 PM evilroot: Indeed
10:34 PM evilroot: I completely disassembled a blueprint model a few fews ago. The sheer amount of engineering that went into it was amazing
10:37 PM roycroft: ursula le guin died
10:37 PM * roycroft is sad
10:58 PM MrHindsight: evilroot: what make model?
10:58 PM MrHindsight: more of a plotter? ink cartridges (thermal) vs piezo?
11:23 PM evilroot: Designjet 4500mfp
11:25 PM evilroot: Enough custom extruded aluminum, linear rails, and servos to put the best CNC to shame
11:28 PM evilroot: Just an entirely different level of engineering
11:29 PM evilroot: And its an outdated machine
11:31 PM evilroot: The way the rails and extrusion line up, the perfectly machined end plates, and how every sensor and endstop screws in
11:54 PM MrHindsight: they can't make them too good or they will loose out on the ink sales to 3rd parties refills
11:55 PM MrHindsight: that's where the real profit is