#linuxcnc Logs

Jan 21 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:29 AM XXCoder: bleh bad humidity problems with my room
12:32 AM XXCoder: its averaging 70 to 80
12:32 AM pfred1: heh
12:32 AM pfred1: you think that's bad?
12:32 AM pfred1: don't move here
12:32 AM XXCoder: interior?
12:32 AM XXCoder: because its not same as outside humidity
12:32 AM pfred1: I guess the ouse is drier
12:32 AM XXCoder: outside is around 35%?
12:32 AM pfred1: the humidity here right now is 77% and this is the dry season
12:33 AM roycroft: 91% humidity here
12:33 AM roycroft: but winter is our wet season
12:33 AM pfred1: yeah in the summer we can run in the high 90s for months on end
12:33 AM XXCoder: winter is "will we see sun this month?" month
12:33 AM XXCoder: *season
12:34 AM roycroft: and we get down below 20% in the summer
12:35 AM pfred1: I think I figured out how to do this here and I don't want to do it anymore
12:35 AM pfred1: 2 days fighting to figure it out and now I want to install a later version
12:35 AM pfred1: Would you like to merge these packages? [Yes/No] no
12:38 AM XXCoder: Don't you want to not uninstall these packages? [Yes/No]
12:38 AM pfred1: yeah I have to rip out two days of work that I did too
12:39 AM pfred1: but it sounds like the newer version is a lot better to me
12:39 AM pfred1: it's going to be epic if I can get it to work
12:40 AM pfred1: it is ilke 600MB of source code
12:41 AM pfred1: I still don't know how I got it to recognize this overlay
12:43 AM XXCoder: cs voodoo
12:44 AM XXCoder: you probably sprayed chicken blood around the compiling oc
12:44 AM pfred1: maybe. I kept pretty detailed notes
12:45 AM pfred1: I know the instructions didn't work
12:48 AM pfred1: want to see something pretty?
12:50 AM XXCoder: why not
12:50 AM pfred1: this is a work of art https://paste.ee/p/V2zU5
12:52 AM pfred1: oh wait that's not it
12:53 AM pfred1: no that's it
01:03 AM XXCoder: 56 humidity now
01:03 AM XXCoder: wearing coat in room
01:04 AM IchGucksLive: morning from Snow glaced Germany
01:06 AM XXCoder: hey
01:06 AM XXCoder: https://futurism.com/hydrogen-fuel-could-become-a-viable-energy-alternative-thanks-to-this-aluminum-alloy/
01:06 AM XXCoder: interesting
01:09 AM pfred1: they make hydrogen out of natural gas
01:09 AM pfred1: hydrogen is the hydro in hydrocarbon
01:10 AM jesseg: umm not to throw water on anyone's bright idea but oxidizing aluminum to liberate hydrogen doesn't return nearly the quantity of energy needed to reduce the aluminum oxide back to metallic aluminum.
01:10 AM pfred1: hydrogen by itself is a pretty low grade fuel
01:11 AM jesseg: if that wasn't such a problem, they'd just use sodium hydroxide in water because that produces hydrogen gas with any grade of aluminum :P
01:11 AM jesseg: but it takes huge amounts of power to convert aluminum oxide to metalic aluminum :D
01:11 AM pfred1: let's face facts petroleum is a tough act to beat
01:11 AM jesseg: LOL true dat
01:12 AM jesseg: especially since it's an energy source.
01:12 AM jesseg: that we don't have to first spend more energy than its worth to produce it :P
01:12 AM pfred1: when you see the numbers its staggering how good gasoline really is
01:12 AM MarcelineVQ: more importantly the picture of the scientist they used in this article looks like a total jackass, does the army not have dress code anymore?
01:12 AM XXCoder: jesseg: yeah though I still very much doubt hyro fuel will ever take off also
01:13 AM XXCoder: might be useful for say rover or quad
01:13 AM gloops: none of these ideas are the solution to energy demands
01:13 AM XXCoder: its very compact power source
01:13 AM gloops: the big one is yet to come
01:13 AM jesseg: MarcelineVQ, well, based on the website name "Futurism" I suspect the whole thing is made up to collect ad revenue, but I honestly don't know if they have ads since I have adblock plus on
01:14 AM jesseg: XXCoder, what is hyro fuel? Oh, hydro? what is hydro fuel?
01:14 AM XXCoder: hyrogen basel fuel or power source
01:14 AM jesseg: Liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen is a pretty compact fuel source. That's why the shuttles used the in their thrusters
01:14 AM pfred1: download this file https://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf
01:14 AM MarcelineVQ: gloops: the big one is orbital ladders, giving cheap ability to launch solar collectors, until a more interesting idea happens anyway
01:15 AM MarcelineVQ: if you want energy density uranium can fill your boots
01:15 AM gloops: Marcel something like that might put us on until we build the dyson sphere
01:15 AM XXCoder: and fill boots with radioactive waste also
01:15 AM XXCoder: gloops: dyson isnt too useful, unless very large part of it being solar collectors
01:16 AM XXCoder: jesseg: enabled everything. no ads
01:16 AM gloops: http://img13.deviantart.net/cefb/i/2004/273/e/e/dyson_sphere_by_capnhack.jpg
01:17 AM jesseg: XXCoder, odd I wonder how they get money
01:17 AM XXCoder: gloops: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZFipeZtQM5CKUjx6grh54g
01:17 AM pfred1: I duobt if there's enough material in the solar system to build a sphere out of
01:17 AM XXCoder: LOTS about future using known and likely future tech
01:17 AM gloops: nah i think we need to know more about quantum particles and physics, the solution lies there
01:17 AM XXCoder: no magic stuff requiring physical trait of square root of -1.
01:18 AM gloops: only a quantum computer can do the math
01:18 AM XXCoder: you will love that guy
01:18 AM pfred1: yeah we're barely past setting stuff on fire today
01:18 AM pfred1: really not past it
01:18 AM XXCoder: lemme link one of his videos about far future and dyson
01:18 AM pfred1: I heard about all that stuffi n the 70s
01:19 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk-Ivm9MhYs
01:19 AM XXCoder: turn on captions if you dont understand hi
01:20 AM XXCoder: videos itself donbt really matter most times he usually uses stock videos of subject hes talking about
01:20 AM MarcelineVQ: a whole vid intended for people who haven't read larry niven yet, interestin
01:20 AM pfred1: I think we're going to prove eventually tha intelligence is not a survival trait
01:20 AM XXCoder: MarcelineVQ: I have MANY niven books.
01:20 AM XXCoder: I still love his videos.
01:20 AM pfred1: so far the long term prospects for our species do not look good
01:21 AM MarcelineVQ: but they never do to the current prospector
01:21 AM gloops: rats were here at the time of the dinosaurs, theyll probably still be here when we've gone
01:21 AM pfred1: yeah but today we know more than ever
01:21 AM XXCoder: pfred1: maybe maybe not. I rather try to post-surivial point. essentally proof against exinaction and post-"rare" (cant spell saricity) life.
01:21 AM XXCoder: *get to
01:21 AM gloops: when humans become extinct there wont be time for another intelligent species to evolve, the sun will change
01:22 AM pfred1: we have a pretty stable sun
01:22 AM gloops: we may be the first and last in the entire cosmos
01:22 AM XXCoder: actually huge part of first 5 billion is starting at first place
01:22 AM XXCoder: there was billion or more years of just evoluting multicellear life.
01:22 AM gloops: pfred it took 3 billion years to get to mankind, there aint that long left in this solar system
01:22 AM pfred1: nah life here sprang up pretty quickly
01:22 AM XXCoder: we are already past that. so maybe just few million years
01:22 AM MarcelineVQ: it's pretty unlikely that humans are special
01:23 AM pfred1: though it did take a while to evolve
01:23 AM XXCoder: exactly my point
01:23 AM XXCoder: we (all life on earth) already did the hard work
01:23 AM pfred1: and this planet being kind of marginal for supporting life helped
01:24 AM gloops: Marcel mathematically unlikely, and yet no sign of other intelligent life has ever been detected
01:24 AM pfred1: the Fermi paradox
01:24 AM XXCoder: isaac talks about that quite a lot
01:24 AM pfred1: where are they all?
01:24 AM MarcelineVQ: the speed of light isn't so confusing as that, it takes a long long time for evidence to be evident
01:24 AM gloops: if intelligence abounded in the universe space would be buzzing with artificial radio signals - there are none
01:24 AM XXCoder: it was great "listening" time for me
01:25 AM pfred1: yeah when I was younger I believed in ETs and what have you
01:25 AM XXCoder: im sure theres ets somewhere in universe
01:25 AM gloops: Marcel our solar system is a relative latecomer, intelligent life had time to evolve elsewhere a billion or 2 years ago
01:25 AM pfred1: but space is just too vast for them to ever visit here even if they do exist
01:25 AM gloops: they would be here
01:26 AM XXCoder: unless we find a way to break physics
01:26 AM XXCoder: or cheat
01:26 AM pfred1: what we might see someday is AI
01:26 AM gloops: pfred space is not big when you understand it
01:26 AM XXCoder: the space thing (the rings one) may well be best chance of real ftl
01:26 AM pfred1: like machines another civilization built that just go around eating solar systems
01:26 AM gloops: its only like a scroll, you are never actually far from anywhere else, if you can see the route
01:26 AM XXCoder: space dont seem to have light speed limit
01:27 AM XXCoder: (the space itself, not "space" as in in vacuum)
01:27 AM gloops: a quark can be here and in alpha centauri in a nano second
01:27 AM gloops: or at the same time
01:27 AM XXCoder: i wonder about that
01:27 AM MarcelineVQ: XXCoder: hyperspace? you're talking about dropping something into something where physics have a different meaning so when you pp back out you look like you've achieved the impssible?
01:27 AM pfred1: but can a quark support intelligence?
01:28 AM XXCoder: MarcelineVQ: nah just compressing and expanding space
01:28 AM gloops: pfred you are made of quarks
01:28 AM MarcelineVQ: but space is always expanding
01:28 AM XXCoder: yeah I mean using gravity. though we dont have that tech, if ever
01:28 AM pfred1: gloops so what are the odds of all of my quarks teleporting to alpha centauri at the same time?
01:28 AM MarcelineVQ: but what if quarks are little universes doh ho ho
01:28 AM gloops: around 13% of your mass is not present at any one instant
01:29 AM fragalot: hi
01:29 AM gloops: it is elsewhere, anywhere in the universe
01:29 AM MarcelineVQ: gloops that's uhm, not how things work, you can't apply the quantum to the macro directly like that
01:29 AM XXCoder: I find that questionable.
01:29 AM pfred1: damn I'm 13% heavier I really need to diet
01:30 AM * fragalot has his doubts
01:30 AM pfred1: no wonder it seems harder sometimes to get up
01:30 AM gloops: Marcel well you cant account for all your electrons
01:30 AM MarcelineVQ: 'why can't I hold all these electrons"
01:31 AM MarcelineVQ: what makes you say that? it's true, for various actually unrelated reasons, but why do you say this?
01:31 AM fragalot: gloops: actually, electrons only have a rest mass in the order of 10^-30 ish kg
01:33 AM XXCoder: pfred1: https://i.imgur.com/UmhODZR.jpg
01:33 AM fragalot: gloops: and, researches have managed to observe electrons; and whlist you can't predict WHERE they are, you can predict that there is always one present in certain layers around the center of the nucleus.. so even if "your" electron goes AWOL, another will have taken it's place
01:33 AM pfred1: XXCoder I'm tellign ya
01:33 AM XXCoder: those bum elecrrons
01:34 AM pfred1: yeah electrons don't so much flow as they do the wave
01:35 AM gloops: fragalot nevertheless we cannot say we are consistent self contained lump of something
01:35 AM pfred1: I mean if they really flowed like water through a hose they'd all come out the end of a wire and you'd have nothing left
01:35 AM XXCoder: gloops: we arent, even without quantium stuff
01:35 AM XXCoder: we constantly replace atoms
01:35 AM fragalot: gloops: we can't, no. but that doesn't mean that our MASS changes by 13%
01:35 AM fragalot: THIRTEEN
01:35 AM gloops: fragalot the content changes
01:35 AM pfred1: XXCoder where do replacement atoms come from?
01:35 AM XXCoder: food. air. water.
01:36 AM pfred1: those are molecules
01:36 AM XXCoder: he;;, even touches
01:36 AM fragalot: pfred1: molecules are made up of atoms
01:36 AM pfred1: yes
01:36 AM pfred1: but they act different in packages
01:36 AM fragalot: and?
01:36 AM fragalot: so because i've replaced a molecule, I have kept the atoms?
01:36 AM XXCoder: 53%. few percent to go
01:36 AM pfred1: with us we need to worry more about cells
01:37 AM gloops: knowing that the building blocks are not unique to us, uniqueness can only lie in the structure
01:37 AM gloops: therefore with a blueprint of your structure, you can be replicated
01:37 AM fragalot: we are indeed nothing but machines
01:37 AM MarcelineVQ: gloops: I doubt a channel full of crafters will argue that one
01:38 AM * fragalot offers gloops a slice of dolly
01:38 AM pfred1: baaa
01:38 AM pfred1: the clones we know about haven't been too successful yet
01:39 AM pfred1: right now research into human cloning is banned
01:39 AM fragalot: because it's "unethical" to do the research properly
01:39 AM XXCoder: remember dolly?
01:39 AM XXCoder: they researched into it more
01:39 AM gloops: in 'A for Andromeda' the aliens in th andromeda galaxy know they cannot physically travel to us, so they send the information on how to build a machine to earth - which follows the intructions
01:39 AM pfred1: well sure
01:39 AM XXCoder: found out it wasnt genetic wear and tear that cause dolly to die early
01:39 AM gloops: the machine recreates an alien
01:39 AM XXCoder: it was problems with process
01:39 AM pfred1: there's talk that there's illegal human cloning experiments going on
01:39 AM gloops: thats how it will be done - travel as information
01:40 AM XXCoder: that'd be close to light speed yeah
01:40 AM MarcelineVQ: cloning isn't very interesting, modification is, you can bet your ass every major gov. has some side project with fingers in that pie
01:40 AM pfred1: some Italian guy a few years ago claimed he cloned a human but neve produced any evidence
01:40 AM fragalot: gloops: is it "travel" if you don't actually go anywhere?
01:40 AM fragalot: gloops: it's more like sending a messager
01:41 AM XXCoder: imformation traveled.
01:41 AM pfred1: fragalot we're always going somewhere
01:41 AM MarcelineVQ: gloops: like that movie Contact
01:41 AM gloops: fragalot as we have just established, you arent anywhere in particular to begin with
01:41 AM pfred1: around the sun and around the galaxy
01:41 AM fragalot: gloops: you are;
01:42 AM gloops: Marcel probably taken from fred hoyles book, hoyle was a noted cosmologist
01:42 AM pfred1: he played a lot of cards too
01:42 AM MarcelineVQ: no idea, it's a petty dumb movie but it had neat ideas in it
01:42 AM XXCoder: lol cnc router bobscnc ad from interesting engineering. it says "can do step within 8 millimeter"
01:42 AM XXCoder: uhh
01:42 AM gloops: fragalot my physical mass is transient, my consciousness - is nowhere
01:42 AM MarcelineVQ: XXCoder: transcription error maybe?
01:43 AM pfred1: I saw the end of Contact tonight
01:43 AM XXCoder: conscuousness is emergant system
01:43 AM pfred1: when James Woods was ridiculing Jodie Foster
01:43 AM XXCoder: its state of brain
01:43 AM MarcelineVQ: pfred1: which end, the weird alien beach shit? yeah haha
01:43 AM XXCoder: lol yeah
01:43 AM pfred1: nah past that
01:44 AM MarcelineVQ: oh james woods
01:44 AM XXCoder: book is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better.
01:44 AM fragalot: gloops: just because your electrons are "borrowed" and "exchanged" constantly does not mean that your physical mass is fully transient.. for all intents and purposes, that mass is insignificant.
01:44 AM MarcelineVQ: "but the recorder..."
01:44 AM XXCoder: for one, she wasnt only passager.
01:44 AM XXCoder: and that seat thing shit is just wtf
01:44 AM gloops: so i am nothing but a structure, with emergent properties
01:44 AM XXCoder: yep. welcome to life
01:44 AM MarcelineVQ: two for two gloops
01:45 AM MarcelineVQ: now you just need to mention nanotechnology and you've got a bingo
01:45 AM pfred1: gray goo
01:45 AM MarcelineVQ: emergent nano quantum singularity
01:45 AM gloops: see if you wanted to create an artificial world, with intelligent occupants, but make the illusion so realistic they could never detect it wasnt real
01:46 AM XXCoder: looks like cant go below 53 humidity. guess outside is at that
01:46 AM gloops: it would be like this
01:46 AM pfred1: the matrix?
01:46 AM gloops: the intelligent things will look at the world and try to understand it, the closer and closer they get as they look at the smallest components - the quarks
01:46 AM fragalot: guys
01:46 AM fragalot: did you know
01:47 AM gloops: so a failsafe measure - dont let them look at quarks
01:47 AM fragalot: that your brain decided it was the most important
01:47 AM gloops: when the things in the matrix look at the quarks, the quarks disapear, they defy all means of logical understanding
01:47 AM fragalot: gloops: why not?
01:47 AM fragalot: let the sims do the real science for you
01:47 AM gloops: there you have it - the matrix mkIII
01:48 AM pfred1: there is no quark
01:48 AM gloops: quarks are the bytes or the pixels
01:49 AM fragalot: then what makes up the bits?
01:49 AM pfred1: crumbs
01:50 AM gloops: god is probably a mathematician running a routine, this could be a program to find the key for some mystery we couldnt even comprehend
01:50 AM fragalot: my tv keeps trying to be sneaky and install updates when it's off... Shame it can't fool the amplifyer, as that thing keeps switching on & off during, lol
01:50 AM fragalot: gloops: you lost me at "god"
01:50 AM gloops: god being the designer of the matrix, but anyway
01:51 AM pfred1: fragalot you may not have faith in God but He has faith in you
01:51 AM fragalot: pfred1: xD
01:52 AM MarcelineVQ: the hoary thing called reality is too alien for the yowling ape that builds cities to look at directly, there doesn't need to be a great mystery behind this. we evolved to chew on animals and plants, not to peel back the canvas. we're pretty good at it considering
01:53 AM pfred1: we are victims of our own success
01:55 AM pfred1: soylent green is people!
01:55 AM XXCoder: thankfully my soylent arent green
01:58 AM Deejay: moin
01:59 AM fragalot: mornin'
02:03 AM XXCoder: http://jakelikesonions.com/post/164256169529/so-romantic heh
02:04 AM jesseg: Odd.. Just took apart a 1965 fire ext and the valve release pin looks like silver based on the color and the style of the patina....
02:06 AM XXCoder: old chrome?
02:07 AM jesseg: it's not the color of chrome, it's not peeling, and it's slightly tarnished a smooth blackish tarnish where it was outside exposed to the air.
02:07 AM jesseg: The color is that of silver, not chrome.
02:08 AM jesseg: I've never seen chrome darken like silver.. It either gets rough spots or green or blue spots..
02:09 AM jesseg: or peels :P
02:09 AM XXCoder: hmm probably not
02:09 AM XXCoder: but silver pin? odd
02:09 AM jesseg: yeah, or thick maybe silver plated...? I do know silver was a little less valuable and more of an available industrial material long time ago
02:10 AM XXCoder: serling silver isnt that expensive
02:10 AM XXCoder: and quite stable
02:11 AM jesseg: I guess I could take a piece of silver and this and hang them in some silver nitrate and see what the voltage difference is. If they are different metals they'll produce a voltage.
02:11 AM jesseg: Well, silver was drastically less expensive in the 60's I think.
02:12 AM jesseg: A friend of mine used to work at a place that made A/C radiators or something and they used silver solder.. Then at one time the price of silver went up so much they put their hundreds of pounds of silver solder stock in a locking box and found a cheaper way to do it :P
02:12 AM XXCoder: lol
02:14 AM jesseg: by valve pin I mean the rod that sticks into the valve body -- the one that the release level presses on the end of to open the valve and release the powder.
02:14 AM jesseg: So it may be they didn't want to use stainless and didn't want any chance of the rod rusting and causing it to jam
02:14 AM XXCoder: silver coated stainless?
02:15 AM jesseg: it's not stainless
02:15 AM XXCoder: er steel
02:15 AM jesseg: it may be silver plated brass.
02:15 AM XXCoder: yeah planned to say steel not stainless
02:15 AM XXCoder: yeah cheaper
02:15 AM XXCoder: probablky not cheaper now
02:15 AM jesseg: The other end, on the other side of the rubber seal, is brass. I don't know if it screws together as two halves or just one end is silver plated
02:16 AM jesseg: it's just amusing to me to see how they did things 50 years ago :D
02:16 AM XXCoder: im sure its same 50 years old
02:16 AM XXCoder: "lol they actually used metal"
02:16 AM XXCoder: *later
02:17 AM jesseg: LOL probably so
02:20 AM jesseg: I wonder if anyone ever accidentally recharged a fire ext with gasoline
02:20 AM jesseg: that would be really bad. It might cause the seals to fail also.
02:20 AM XXCoder: yah that'd get people all fired up
02:20 AM jesseg: LOL
02:22 AM XXCoder: :)
04:15 AM gloops: what are those laser 'tape' measures like?
04:17 AM archivist: dunno, but are aimed at builders
04:17 AM gloops: https://uk.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=ddc&hsimp=yhs-linuxmint&type=__alt__ddc_linuxmint_com&p=lasrer+tape+measure
04:18 AM gloops: if you could get the source of the laser pivoting on an axis you could get some angular measurements of an area
04:19 AM Wolf__: they make those
04:19 AM gloops: yeah i suppose they must do Wolf
04:20 AM Wolf__: http://www.lasertech.com/TruPoint-300-Total-Station.aspx.aspx
04:20 AM gloops: Collects and stores 3D measurement coordinates in DFX format.
04:21 AM gloops: you collect the data then analyse it on the computer
04:21 AM gloops: way behind the times with my tapes and rulers
04:21 AM archivist: hehe what is "survey-grade accuracy"
04:22 AM gloops: well probably an engineers equivalent
04:22 AM gloops: channel tunnel was only 2 inch out was it? when they broke through
04:22 AM archivist: it is rather a broad marketing term
04:22 AM gloops: that is phenomenally accurate over 25 miles
04:23 AM archivist: I should measure my cnc with a theodolite
04:23 AM gloops: i did some sohcahtoa last night regarding this
04:24 AM gloops: 50mm square box section, 1000mm long
04:24 AM Wolf__: I looked at the laser tech stuff at one of the trade shows I was working
04:24 AM gloops: if the cut along the 50mm end is 0.25mm out of square, the length of the steel, the other end is 5mm out of square
04:25 AM gloops: it isnt difficult to be .25mm out using an engineers square, you can hardly see that
04:25 AM gloops: over 50mm
04:25 AM gloops: its basically cutting the wrong side of a pencil line
04:25 AM archivist: you can file to get it a lot better with your square
04:26 AM gloops: and then consider the forces welding have even on a perfect square joint - no chance at all
04:26 AM gloops: even with extrusions cut on a cut off saw youll be very lucky not to be out
04:27 AM archivist: this is where measuring and adjusting come in. not too late in the build :)
04:28 AM gloops: yes the summary has to be - build in adjustment, youll need it
04:29 AM Wolf__: I thought that was common knowledge for building shit lol
04:30 AM archivist: some have to learn that the hard way :)
04:30 AM gloops: well it is Wolf, but i was 10mm out, more even at the beginning, i just thought how the hell can i be that far out, everything measured up to start
04:31 AM gloops: when you do the maths its very easy, its in fact inevitable you will be out
04:31 AM gloops: the longer the sections the greater the tiny error is magnified
04:32 AM archivist: magnetic welding clamps
04:32 AM Wolf__: granted that I am a welder so I know welding does fun things to frames
04:32 AM gloops: fine - but it happens when the clamps come off as well
04:33 AM archivist: tacking matters to avoid it
04:33 AM gloops: gantry was a push together fit, a week later i had to knock the cross sections out with a hammer - oh sht it hasnt gone back the same
04:33 AM Wolf__: if you jig, weld, then stress relieve
04:33 AM Wolf__: might be straight after
04:33 AM gloops: you dont notice this when making a workbench or a gate, you do when youre putting ballscrews on it
04:34 AM gloops: the stress relief is what trips the amateur up Wolf
04:35 AM gloops: as they cant do that
04:35 AM Wolf__: heat+time
04:35 AM Wolf__: most dont know to do it
04:35 AM gloops: i wouldnt know the first thing
04:36 AM Wolf__: youtube =P
04:37 AM archivist: large ovens and cherry red for a few hours
04:38 AM jthornton: morning
04:39 AM gloops: the thing with extrusions, at least if you cut badly, all you have to do is unbolt and start filing - trial and error
04:39 AM gloops: i would reccomend steel base, but ally for the bearing sections
04:39 AM archivist: extrusions may not be straight, machine flat
04:40 AM Wolf__: you can add weld to twist welded frames around
04:40 AM archivist: add some shrinkage where needed
04:40 AM gloops: you really have to have your head around the 3d space youre playing with, move A, B is affected
04:42 AM gloops: well, back to the garage
04:42 AM archivist: its snowing out there!
04:58 AM jthornton: you are getting that cold crap we just finished with looks like
05:00 AM phipli: hum
05:01 AM phipli: JT-Shop seems to sent us some of his weather
05:01 AM phipli: unexpected snow...
05:01 AM archivist: only for today, tomorrow we get warm atlantic air
05:01 AM phipli: heh
05:01 AM jthornton: but not as cold as we got to at 1°F for a low
05:01 AM phipli: yeah - it will be around 0 to 1 deg C
05:02 AM phipli: rarely snows at any temperature other than the transition to freezing
05:02 AM archivist: .9 deg c this morning when I looked
05:02 AM phipli: (here)
05:02 AM phipli: I checked the weather a load earlier in the week, but haven't for a few days
05:02 AM phipli: this wasn't on the forecast last time I looked
05:03 AM phipli: the chickens stuck their head out the door and backed up into the coop again
05:03 AM jthornton: yea mine the first morning of snow/sleet they came out then tried to fly over it lol
05:03 AM jthornton: then ran back inside
05:04 AM jthornton: as far as I can tell no one has gone inside the new nest box yet and they have been up for 35 minutes
05:07 AM jthornton: I think I'm going to have to wipe this hard drive and start over linuxcnc will no longer build
05:08 AM jthornton: make failed with undefined reference to `boost::python::exec(char const*, boost::python::api::object, boost::python::api::object)'collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
05:08 AM jthornton: whatever the heck that is
05:08 AM jthornton: I blame it on motion
05:11 AM archivist: boost it a pain in the A, they change api
05:11 AM archivist: version mismatch
05:18 AM fragalot: mesa boards could really do with some labeling on the connectors, lol
05:19 AM jthornton: they are labeled...
05:19 AM fragalot: there is indeed a tiny silkscreen saying what the whole row is
05:19 AM fragalot: but counting to 17 to get to the right pin is likely to cause errors because i'm daft.
05:19 AM jthornton: yup
05:21 AM jthornton: the internet says daft is silly or foolish is that the UK meaning or just the internet?
05:22 AM SpeedEvil: that is a UK meaning.
05:22 AM SpeedEvil: I don't know if it's also other places
05:30 AM jthornton: a balmy 51°F this morning
05:31 AM XXCoder: fancy
05:34 AM jthornton: at least one pullet has used the new roll out nest box :)
05:36 AM jthornton: got a nice 50g one
05:43 AM fragalot: what's the best way to test if I can communicate to a mesa card?
05:49 AM jthornton: 7i76E?
05:49 AM fragalot: yes
05:50 AM jthornton: follow my how to guide https://mesaus.com/info/7i76e.txt
05:54 AM gloops: 3 motors loosely bolted up, belts work, its going to work
05:54 AM gloops: , or at least, its going to move
05:55 AM fragalot: jthornton: linuxcnc fails stating it can't find hm2_eth .. does this mean I should use hm2_eth instead of eth0?
05:56 AM jthornton: are you using LinuxCNC Uspace?
05:56 AM fragalot: fresh linuxCNC install; I have no idea what i'm doing but completed pncconf & your guide
05:56 AM fragalot: treat me as a child :P
05:57 AM jthornton: fresh install from what?
05:57 AM fragalot: http://www.linuxcnc.org/linuxcnc-2.7-wheezy.iso
05:58 AM jthornton: open a terminal and type in uname -a
05:59 AM fragalot: 3-4-9-rtai-696-paa #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 3.4.55-4linuxcnc
05:59 AM jthornton: rtai is for pci and pcie cards not ethernet cards
06:00 AM jthornton: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_installing_on_debian_wheezy_with_preempt_rt_kernel
06:01 AM fragalot: thx
06:14 AM phipli: wait - americans don't say daft?
06:15 AM XXCoder: we do but not common
06:15 AM phipli: yeah - just looked up the etymology because it didn't feel like a /new/ word
06:15 AM phipli: it is from old english and the germanic roots of english
06:16 AM phipli: weird that you don't
06:16 AM phipli: its been in english /forever/
06:16 AM XXCoder: like I said we do use it but not very common
06:16 AM phipli: regional, or just usage?
06:18 AM XXCoder: usage
06:18 AM phipli: heh. the missus says that her slack channel uses the "topic for the day" to post "things <my missus> says that we don't understand"
06:20 AM archivist: america and england, two countries separated by a common language
06:20 AM XXCoder: and ocean
06:21 AM phipli: there was a time when the US considered adopting German as the official language
06:24 AM XXCoder: heard german is best language to shout out pissed off
06:34 AM IchGucksLive: hi
06:35 AM fragalot: hey
06:37 AM phipli: XXCoder, you forget Russian
06:37 AM phipli: morning IchGucksLive
06:38 AM IchGucksLive: ;-)
06:38 AM XXCoder: germany is only one I heard as being that
06:38 AM XXCoder: its not like I can listen and compare em
06:38 AM fragalot: you can, through the power of youtube
06:39 AM XXCoder: no, I cant. lol
06:39 AM XXCoder: im deaf :P
06:39 AM phipli: heh
06:40 AM phipli: you could look at the waveforms?
06:40 AM XXCoder: nah meaningless
06:41 AM fragalot: XXCoder: i'm sure there are sign language variants :P
06:41 AM phipli: then you'll just have to take my word for it, that a happy russian describing his garden can sound angry
06:42 AM XXCoder: fragalot: any sign langage in angry mode looks really "ready to kill ya"
06:42 AM XXCoder: but really it could be agruging on who rides on front
06:43 AM phipli: Signing in caps?
06:43 AM XXCoder: not really just different
06:45 AM phipli: have you always been deaf?
06:45 AM XXCoder: nope, just last 42 years lol
06:45 AM XXCoder: yeah before I was even born'
06:46 AM phipli: Things might be quite interesting over the next while with video processing things getting better
06:47 AM phipli: google glasses liver translation lipreading?
06:47 AM phipli: liver?
06:47 AM XXCoder: one of things im happy about is autocraptons is getting less crappy
06:47 AM phipli: *live
06:47 AM XXCoder: google glasses is dead
06:47 AM phipli: yeah - it is actually borderline possible to watch youtube videos in other languages with auto captions
06:47 AM phipli: XXCoder, yeah - I know, but it will come round again
06:48 AM phipli: I'm waiting for the facial recognition HUD glasses
06:48 AM phipli: because I'm not very good at names
06:48 AM XXCoder: aurto trnslation isnt as good
06:48 AM phipli: depends on the languages
06:48 AM phipli: some are good enough to cope
06:48 AM phipli: others are... useless
06:49 AM phipli: Spanish <-> English and French <-> English seem ok
06:49 AM phipli: weirdly german isn't quite as good considering it is closer to english
06:49 AM XXCoder: probably due to weird combo words
06:50 AM jthornton: new roll out nest box working well
06:50 AM XXCoder: looks like speech recoginition for linux is coming. YAYYY :P
06:51 AM phipli: jthornton, did you see the things I've mentioned about the ds3231 RTCs while you weren't about?
06:51 AM phipli: a) People are selling them with the wrong battery and,
06:51 AM phipli: b) there is a built in temperature sensor
06:52 AM jthornton: yea, I've seen that they are selling them with a normal battery and not a rechargeable one
06:52 AM phipli: checked yours?
06:52 AM jthornton: mine came without a battery
06:52 AM phipli: they pop after a while if they are left charging with the wrong one
06:52 AM phipli: ah right. good good
06:52 AM phipli: I got 5 new ones, all with the wrong battery
06:53 AM phipli: my older one / ones all had rechargeable batteries
06:53 AM jthornton: I saw some were disconnecting the charging circuit
06:53 AM phipli: yeah - I'd sooner have the rechargeable battery long term
06:53 AM phipli: even if it is an extra £1.50 on top
06:54 AM jthornton: same here rather have the proper battery
06:54 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpkdaHxL7nA $6 sandblaster
06:54 AM jthornton: I need to get my nest box camera done and installed
06:55 AM phipli: my cheap infrared usb camera is still working
06:56 AM phipli: was an SQ11
06:57 AM phipli: the mount that came with it is rubbish though
06:57 AM jthornton: I can't seem to get the usb camera to work with the chicken rpi
06:58 AM phipli: what camera is it?
06:59 AM jthornton: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K7Z724U
06:59 AM jthornton: it worked on the other rpi
06:59 AM jthornton: lsusb sees it as Bus 001 Device 004: ID 1871:0001 Aveo Technology Corp.
07:00 AM jthornton: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FZ7XH6G this one is the one I'm building a box for
07:01 AM phipli: yeah - the official ones should work :)
07:01 AM jthornton: wow 21st of the month and I have 2GB of extra data!
07:01 AM phipli: :)
07:01 AM phipli: video tutorial time!
07:01 AM jthornton: took me a couple of days to find the right software for the official one
07:02 AM jthornton: that link I gave you the other day
07:02 AM phipli: sent that on to my dad
07:06 AM XXCoder: pompeii style oven https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2ggDFNaGQc
07:07 AM XXCoder: the mthod to make sphere is ingenious
07:13 AM fragalot: i'm using my amplifier to hook my tv up to this Shuttle I want to use as a cnc box, because I don't have a spare screen here to configure it all
07:13 AM fragalot: and I once accidentally set the amp to "eco" mode, which means it switches off if there is no audio for 10 minutes
07:13 AM fragalot: but there is NO button to DISABLE eco mode.
07:13 AM fragalot: same with favorites, there is a "+fav" button to add a favorite, but no way to remove it later
07:13 AM fragalot: lol
07:14 AM XXCoder: play a sound loop forever heh
07:14 AM XXCoder: even veyr quiet its still audio being busy :P
07:15 AM fragalot: so now I have a black screen, but no ida if it's because of something I did... or the amp & tv disagreeing
07:16 AM XXCoder: with you or each other? ;)
07:16 AM fragalot: both
07:16 AM IchGucksLive: black screen is best as it showes all the errors :P
07:17 AM IchGucksLive: i like to get black letters on black background
07:18 AM fragalot: turns out I knocked the DVI->hdmi adapter when plugging in the mesa
07:18 AM fragalot: lol
07:18 AM XXCoder: "Disaster Area" band's black ship is all black. lit buttons is using black light. you might like it IchGucksLive
07:19 AM IchGucksLive: in younger years i have been ON TOUR with a BoyBand and first LaserLight
07:19 AM IchGucksLive: 200Girls on Fence early ariving at 8am
07:20 AM IchGucksLive: non there on leving 2am
07:21 AM fragalot: jthornton: i'm now running the rt-686-pae kernel and i'm afraid I may be worse off, lol
07:22 AM JT-Shop: why is that?
07:22 AM fragalot: jthornton: when going through pncconf, and clicking the "test/tune axis" button, I get an error
07:22 AM fragalot: attributeerror 'module' object has no attribute 'kernel_version'
07:23 AM Tom_L: morning
07:25 AM fragalot: JT-Shop: could it be because i'm trying to edit an exiting config rather than create a fresh one,
07:25 AM Tom_L: 50F sumer is back
07:25 AM JT-Shop: that may be a pncconf issue not linuxcnc
07:25 AM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwFDGe-H8OU
07:31 AM fragalot: JT-Shop: fixed it by editing pncconf & making it return "True" when checking the kernel version >.>
07:31 AM JT-Shop: Tom_L: nice
07:31 AM JT-Shop: fragalot: good you could fix that
07:32 AM fragalot: on to the next issue
07:32 AM fragalot: pqrq,eter of pin hm2_.....stepgen.00.maxvel not found
07:32 AM JT-Shop: like the pygmy that ate the elephant one bite at a time
07:32 AM Tom_L: now to figure out the spindle..
07:36 AM gloops: nice one Tom - breath out heh
07:38 AM Tom_L: ended up with x=18" y=13" z=7" so a little better than a sherline :)
07:40 AM gloops: i was going to say it looks bigger than i imagined after seeing the movement
07:40 AM jelly-home is now known as jelly
07:43 AM Tom_L: i could get 8 x 7 on the sherline if i really tried
07:45 AM Tom_L: it was pretty flimzy on the edges doing that though
07:46 AM fragalot: well.. the stepper buzzes like crazy
07:46 AM fragalot: that's a start
08:07 AM JT-Shop: Tom_L: nice range
08:19 AM miss0r: isn't sherline flimsy by default?
08:25 AM fragalot: I am SO glad i'm trying these motors offline
08:25 AM fragalot: "X axis tune" is probably the most dangerous buggy thing there is
08:31 AM gloops: fitting z ballscrew, ballscrew nut wont go behind the rollon bearings heh
08:32 AM miss0r: damn
08:32 AM gloops: thought about shaving the nut but ill pack it out, only 2mm
08:40 AM Tom_L: gloops, got pics yet?
08:41 AM gloops: i might get some in a bit
08:47 AM miss0r: \O/ :O
08:47 AM gloops: not much left mechanically, only having another hour today though, got some stuff to do in the week
08:47 AM * fragalot is trying to wrap his head around the MPG connections
08:48 AM fragalot: all wired up, configured in pncconf; but how the hell do I actually make it do anything
08:48 AM gloops: took me ages to get get a mach3 bob working fragalot, with linuxcnc, i thought it was the hardest thing id ever done
08:48 AM fragalot: ._.
08:49 AM gloops: when i look at it now, linuxcnc stepconfig and general layout is as dead simple
08:49 AM gloops: as it gets
08:56 AM IchGucksLive: making progress on freecad SIM
09:04 AM miss0r: I'm going crazy waiting for parts for this spindle !
09:04 AM XXCoder: loads of waiting
09:06 AM miss0r: I'm machining alot of the parts myself. But I have limited amounts of teflon left, and I don't want to machine the next part incorrectly because the chinesium I ordered has some other measurements than advertised
09:08 AM XXCoder: makes sense
09:08 AM fragalot: gloops: if the net "jog-incr-a" is defined in say, "mesaMill.hal"; can I use that net in custom.hal? if so - how?
09:09 AM miss0r: XXCoder: Yeah, but it is still driving me mad :D
09:09 AM miss0r: I want this thing up and running
09:11 AM XXCoder: yeah I bet
09:23 AM miss0r: hahaha. So: the "more powerfull" stepper I ordered last night says 6Ncm, not Nm... fsck ! Thats why I should not order stuff when Im that tired
09:25 AM XXCoder: doh
09:25 AM XXCoder: thats hell of a lot weaker
09:25 AM XXCoder: "do you lift bro"
09:25 AM miss0r: damnit!
09:26 AM miss0r: I'll see if it can handle the stress in a practical setup. I might need to do a geared DC motor instead, to get the torque I need from that small space
09:26 AM XXCoder: isnt gears add backlash?
09:27 AM miss0r: Sure, but as I do not have any ambition to spark threads with this, its okay
09:28 AM miss0r: I just want the electrode to turn with an ajustable speed from 5-200 rpm
09:28 AM XXCoder: I wonder if theres a way to remove backlask
09:28 AM miss0r: Most likely I will run it at 15 rpm
09:28 AM XXCoder: aha spindle and low rpm? I guess it wouldnt affect much then
09:30 AM miss0r: Indeed. The issue is: most of the geared DC motors I can find, have their output shaft off-center. I don't have enough room to acomidate that
09:30 AM XXCoder: I wonder if its doable to make planetary gear
09:31 AM miss0r: also; I don't want it to be 6 kilometers long
09:31 AM miss0r: sure, its doable :) I just don't have that kind of time
09:33 AM fragalot: hm, seems the mesa board isn't counting the encoder
09:33 AM miss0r: Are you missing a GND somewhere?
09:33 AM fragalot: no, just hooked up my scope & the signals look fine
09:34 AM miss0r: hmm. Either you've fried the mesa board, or it is not getting the potential. i.e. bad GND or wrong input
09:34 AM fragalot: or a hal config issue
09:35 AM Tom_L: miss0r what parts are teflon?
09:35 AM miss0r: Tom_L the front bearing housing & the water injector/motor brush housing
09:35 AM Tom_L: HDPE wouldn't work?
09:35 AM miss0r: To keep the output shaft isolated from the shassis
09:36 AM miss0r: sure, but I don't have the sizes needed in that either :]
09:36 AM Tom_L: sheet or bar?
09:36 AM Tom_L: cutting boards are HDPE
09:36 AM miss0r: well, it would do 'okay' for the front bearing housing. But I think the melting point of HDPE is a bit low for the motor brushes.
09:37 AM miss0r: I need bar. 45mm OD
09:37 AM Tom_L: ahh
09:37 AM Tom_L: i got a small bar but not that big
09:37 AM miss0r: Yeah, I've also got plenty of smaller stuff & sheets.
09:37 AM miss0r: I hardly ever machine plastic materials.
09:38 AM fragalot: miss0r: should I see gpio 16 and 17 still when using the encoder mode?
09:38 AM Tom_L: fragalot is this on a mesa card or parport?
09:38 AM fragalot: 7i76e
09:39 AM miss0r: fragalot: I'm not familiar enough with mesa cards to even begin to answer that. Just electronics in general
09:39 AM Tom_L: what's the issue?
09:39 AM fragalot: Tom_L: can't get the MPG to work
09:39 AM fragalot: it looks like my encoder signal isn't getting through
09:39 AM Tom_L: you won't see encoder in hal i don't believe
09:39 AM Tom_L: because it's a mesa function
09:39 AM Tom_L: dmesg to see it iirc
09:40 AM Tom_L: i'd have to go look at mine to be sure, it's been quite a while
09:40 AM Tom_L: this is for an MPG right?
09:40 AM fragalot: yes
09:41 AM gregcnc_: who was looking at the Hardinge HSL-59 the other day? both closed at 1500USD
09:41 AM gregcnc_: plus 6% tax and 16% premium
09:42 AM miss0r: I have to run. See you guys around
09:42 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/
09:42 AM Tom_L: fragalot my config is there
09:42 AM Tom_L: most of the pendant stuff is in my_jog.hal
09:42 AM Tom_L: 7i90
09:42 AM Tom_L: but that shouldn't matter
09:46 AM Tom_L: fragalot, do you know what pins they're supposed to be on?
09:46 AM Tom_L: dmesg should tell you that
09:46 AM fragalot: dmesg doesn't tell me anything useful
09:46 AM fragalot: they are on gpio 16 and 17
09:47 AM Tom_L: what sort of mpg is it?
09:47 AM Tom_L: standard chinglish one?
09:47 AM fragalot: yup
09:48 AM fragalot: quite well made actually this one
09:48 AM Tom_L: just using 2 signal wires and + - ?
09:48 AM fragalot: A & B
09:48 AM Tom_L: yeah
09:49 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/pendant8.jpg
09:49 AM Tom_L: that's the one i got
09:50 AM Tom_L: using the code in the link
09:50 AM fragalot: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Universal-CNC-4-Axis-Pendant-MPG-Handwheel-Emergency-stop-Switch-controller/282534649649?hash=item41c8609f31:g:h8gAAOSwjKFZSMJb
09:50 AM fragalot: thtat's what i have
09:51 AM Tom_L: oh you got the whole thing
09:51 AM fragalot: my code is very similar to yours.. selectors work
09:51 AM fragalot: but the encoder doesn't
09:51 AM Tom_L: do you have a way of verifying the signal out of the encoder?
09:51 AM Tom_L: like an led etc
09:51 AM Tom_L: or a pair of leds
09:51 AM fragalot: oscilloscope
09:51 AM Tom_L: even better
09:52 AM Tom_L: and you got a good signal?
09:52 AM fragalot: yeah
09:52 AM fragalot: hang on i'll try measuring on the board itself rather than on the inside of this mpg
09:52 AM Tom_L: then it's just down to config
09:52 AM fragalot: brb
09:57 AM fragalot: signals look beautiful
09:58 AM Tom_L: then it's in the config somewhere
10:01 AM fragalot: surely I should be able to just see the raw encoder count somewhere?
10:04 AM Tom_shop: one sec
10:06 AM archivist: fragalot, http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/halshow.html
10:07 AM Tom_shop: http://paste.debian.net/1006273/
10:07 AM Tom_shop: you should see encoders in the dmesg listing
10:07 AM Tom_shop: as you see there
10:08 AM Tom_shop: if you don't then they're not configured in your bitfile
10:10 AM fragalot: I don't see any of that in my dmesg output
10:10 AM gloops: very poor light in this garage https://ibb.co/cXfTib
10:10 AM Tom_shop: then you need a different bitfile that has them
10:11 AM fragalot: Tom_L: no I mean I see /nothing/ related to hm2
10:11 AM Tom_shop: do dmesg -c, start linuxcnc and dmesg > dmesg.txt and look at it again
10:11 AM Tom_shop: as root or sudo
10:12 AM fragalot: dmesg just remains blank.. do I need to tell linuxcnc to output to dmesg explicitly?
10:13 AM Tom_L: no
10:13 AM Tom_L: i opened a terminal and did a dmesg -c
10:13 AM Tom_L: then i started linuxcnc from the icon
10:13 AM Tom_L: then i did a dmesg > dmesg.txt
10:13 AM Tom_L: and that's what i got
10:14 AM fragalot: dmesg remains blank for me
10:14 AM Tom_L: something's fishy
10:14 AM fragalot: I just enabled all of the debug flags in linuxcnc but it still does not output to dmesg
10:15 AM Roguish: fragalot: try running lcnc from a command window.
10:15 AM Roguish: if you're not already.
10:15 AM Tom_L: yeah
10:15 AM Tom_L: that's not a bad idea but i hardly ever do it so i didn't wanna try to explain it
10:16 AM Tom_L: somewhere you should see the encoder and the pins it's attached to
10:16 AM fragalot: that outputs it all fine, except here it states pins 14,15,16 for the encoder
10:16 AM fragalot: hm.µ
10:17 AM fragalot: I believe there may have been some tomfoolery with the manual I read
10:17 AM Tom_L: some encoders are open collector and require pullups but you said you're getting a solid signal so that should eliminate that part
10:17 AM fragalot: yeah the signal is cristal clear
10:18 AM fragalot: the console output now says encoder index pin 14, B 15, A 16
10:18 AM Tom_L: show halconfig and watch those pin states as you turn the encoder see what you get
10:18 AM fragalot: I won't see much
10:19 AM fragalot: it's a full quadrature output, so by the time hal has refreshed it's gone
10:20 AM Tom_L: are you running axis gui?
10:21 AM Tom_L: you should be able to watch the pin states
10:21 AM fragalot: yeah but the encoder pins are default 0
10:21 AM archivist: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/halshow.html#_watch_tab
10:21 AM fragalot: I'm more inclined to believe that this wiring diagram is incorrect (for my current config)
10:21 AM fragalot: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/media/kunena/attachments/3278/7i76_Anschluss.pdf
10:21 AM Tom_L: if you turn it slow you should see it change state
10:21 AM fragalot: as this put the encoder on 17,16
10:22 AM Tom_L: like archivist is showing you
10:22 AM fragalot: Tom_L: no, I could not get the signals to move slower when I looked at it via the scope
10:22 AM Tom_L: one click on the encoder would be one state change
10:25 AM Tom_L: i wouldn't go from someone else's wiring diagram
10:26 AM fragalot: yeah i'm reading the manual now, lol
10:26 AM Tom_L: find the pins on yours and make sure that's where it's attached
10:26 AM Tom_L: that's where these tools are supposed to help you
10:26 AM Tom_L: like dmesg and hal showconfiguration etc
10:27 AM Tom_L: anyway, i gotta run for now
10:28 AM hazzy: Morning
10:31 AM hazzy: Quick OT question: I am trying to open multiple SSH terminals into my server, with the first terminal I can log in fine, but when I try to login on another terminal I get a time out and nothing happens. I should be able to open multiple SSH sessions, right?
10:33 AM JT-Shop: I can log into my rpi multiple times
10:35 AM hazzy: Great thanks JT, so looks like more problems to track down here :(
10:35 AM JT-Shop: I don't have ssh enabled on any machine so I can't check that out
10:37 AM fragalot: hooray it works
10:38 AM phipli: hazzy - you should be able to log in multiple times
10:38 AM phipli: are you running some kind of script on login?
10:38 AM phipli: perhaps something that accesses a file or device?
10:39 AM phipli: fragalot, what works?
10:39 AM fragalot: phipli: everything.
10:39 AM phipli: blimey
10:39 AM fragalot: oh ffs
10:39 AM fragalot: except for my screen
10:39 AM phipli: lol
10:40 AM fragalot: amp switched off again - tv shut off - and now X crashed I think
10:40 AM phipli: what type of cable are you using?
10:40 AM hazzy: phipli: Not that I know of, but I am not on the local network, which I guess might be causing a problem if my server or router is not set up correctly
10:40 AM phipli: HDMI?
10:40 AM fragalot: phipli: DVI->HDMI adapter to the amp
10:40 AM fragalot: but it's the amp that's the issue
10:40 AM fragalot: it keeps going into power save mode & that messes everything else up
10:40 AM phipli: try a different cable?
10:40 AM phipli: shorter if possible
10:40 AM fragalot: it's not the cable
10:41 AM phipli: can you keep the amp awake?
10:42 AM fragalot: if I poke the volume button every 5 minutes
10:42 AM phipli: any good with microcontrollers?
10:42 AM fragalot: Yes, but not in the mood for this, lol
10:42 AM phipli: could transmit a volume up + down sequence every few minutes? :)
10:42 AM fragalot: don't need a microcontroller
10:42 AM fragalot: i can do it over telnet
10:43 AM fragalot: why did I not think of this before
10:43 AM phipli: use crontab and do it on the local machine
10:44 AM fragalot: the "local" machine is not networked
10:44 AM fragalot: this laptop is
10:44 AM fragalot: and is now transmitting that sequence periodically
10:44 AM fragalot: :D
10:45 AM MarcelineVQ: tricky, I love it
10:46 AM hazzy: Aha! I can ssh in multiple times on the local network, so must be another fat fingered config ...
10:53 AM phipli: fragalot, excellent :)
10:56 AM * fragalot is a happy camper
10:57 AM fragalot: took me most of the day but at least the prototype electrical X axis is operational
11:03 AM phipli: JT-Shop, you mentioned camera issues - with mine I had to run the following before it worked : echo "options uvcvideo quirks=2" >> /etc/modprobe.d/uvcvideo.con
11:03 AM phipli: most usb webcams worked fine without
11:04 AM gloops: i was going to step in fragalot if you couldnt work it out, was just giving you a bit of time to try yourself
11:04 AM phipli: but the one I'd picked because it did IR needed it
11:06 AM JT-Shop: phipli: what does that do? I don't remember doing that on the rpi camera one I first used it with
11:07 AM phipli: you don't need it for most cameras
11:07 AM phipli: but some implement a specific usb camera protocol in an odd way
11:08 AM phipli: I forget what error it threw... when I ran fswebcam in verbose mode it was something like "colour profile not found" or something
11:09 AM phipli: something to do with an MPEG palette
11:10 AM JT-Shop: I was using motion to view the camera and now it's working oddly
11:11 AM JT-Shop: I bet I didn't use sudo motion to start it before
11:11 AM Tom_L: fragalot what was the encoder issue?
11:18 AM gloops: Tom thats mine so far https://ibb.co/cXfTib
11:18 AM MarcelineVQ: beefy
11:19 AM fragalot: Tom_L: wiring to the wrong pins
11:19 AM MarcelineVQ: you're nicely ahead on the metal to spindle-size ratio
11:19 AM gloops: yes that spindle will be changed later
11:19 AM fragalot: haha
11:20 AM fragalot: you could say it looks a bit....
11:20 AM fragalot: spindly.
11:20 AM gloops: its actually probably enough 800w, ill change to 1.5 later
11:27 AM gloops: if my calculations are correct i should be moving at 300ipm, with great accuracy
11:28 AM fragalot: what about precision?
11:28 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:28 AM fragalot: hey IchGucksLive
11:28 AM gloops: yes ill have that fragalot
11:28 AM gloops: all this is hand picked steel
11:39 AM JT-Shop: phipli: http://gnipsel.com/images/rpi-camera/
11:39 AM JT-Shop: just need to add a cord grip to the box and I'm all set
11:41 AM TurBoss: Hello
11:42 AM hazzy: Hello TurBoss :)
11:43 AM TurBoss: Could bd posible to manage 2 spindles in X using diferent spindles?
11:43 AM gloops: 2 motors or spindles?
11:43 AM TurBoss: Hello Hazzy
11:44 AM TurBoss: Both
11:45 AM gloops: you can run 2 motors on one axis, you can run 7 if you want
11:45 AM TurBoss: Like a mirror
11:45 AM gloops: im not sure what you mean with 2 spindles though, on an axis, 2 cutting at the same time?
11:45 AM TurBoss: 2 tools un diferentes spindles
11:45 AM TurBoss: Great
11:45 AM gloops: ahh, i dont know about that
11:45 AM TurBoss: Thanks
11:46 AM fragalot: TurBoss: as an alternative to toolchanging?
11:46 AM TurBoss: No
11:46 AM fragalot: then why?
11:46 AM TurBoss: i want to machine a part from both sides at once
11:47 AM gloops: so you will have 2 z axis
11:47 AM TurBoss: Part is mirrored
11:47 AM fragalot: creative, but i wonder if you don't cause more problems than you solve
11:48 AM gloops: you will in effect have 2 Y axis as well
11:48 AM gloops: even though they might be on the same Y rails, theyll need seperate screws and motors
11:49 AM gloops: and signals
11:49 AM TurBoss: one Y 2 X and 2 Z
11:49 AM MarcelineVQ: if it's both sides of the same part the hurdle will be work-holding
11:49 AM gloops: well depending what you call your Y, yes
11:49 AM TurBoss: Ok
11:50 AM gloops: this would surely only be practical if you had an ongoing contract to supply these mirrored parts?
11:50 AM TurBoss: I think tha joints could do
11:51 AM gloops: 2 joints on X
11:51 AM TurBoss: Is for a specific task
11:51 AM TurBoss: Great
11:52 AM gloops: im not sure, maybe better to just call it a seperate axis
11:53 AM gloops: youre going to need to refer to it in the gcode id think, unless you can get a script to invert the scale maybe, or just flip the motor wires
11:53 AM TurBoss: Oki
11:55 AM gloops: actually, if you ran 2 screws - each driven from the opposite end, same signal, that would give a mirrored cut ?
11:56 AM fragalot: assuming tolerances aren't down to tenths
11:56 AM gloops: could home each first to get perfect start position
11:57 AM Tom_L: gloops making good progress it appears
11:58 AM gloops: same as ever Tom, slow and rough lol
11:58 AM Tom_L: steady like the turtle
11:58 AM Tom_L: gonna work on a spindle mount today maybe
11:59 AM gloops: its amazing how much time it takes
11:59 AM fragalot: take your time; the longer you take the longer I can spend planning mine
11:59 AM fragalot: :D
12:00 PM phipli: JT-Shop, is the battery the only power source? Or is it for powercuts?
12:00 PM JT-Shop: what battery?
12:01 PM fragalot: I think he means your mains adapter
12:01 PM phipli: ah
12:01 PM phipli: thought it was a battery
12:01 PM phipli: I see now
12:01 PM phipli: it says POE on it
12:02 PM JT-Shop: yea POE splitter
12:02 PM phipli: does it step the voltage down to 5v from higher?
12:02 PM JT-Shop: yes the output is 5v
12:02 PM phipli: but the transmitted voltage over the cable higher?
12:02 PM phipli: I had issues when I used a dumb POE splitter
12:03 PM phipli: I put 5v in at the one end, and got 4v out the other...
12:03 PM phipli: :)
12:03 PM JT-Shop: I think it is 36v or something like that
12:03 PM phipli: good good
12:03 PM gloops: TurBoss https://forum.linuxcnc.org/49-basic-configuration/33079-how-to-2-or-more-motors-on-one-axis-gantry-linuxcnc-2-8-master
12:03 PM JT-Shop: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MDLUSE7
12:03 PM JT-Shop: 48v
12:03 PM gloops: 2 joints on one axis, you need linuxcnc master 2.8 - upgrade on the repository
12:03 PM * JT-Shop wanders off for a nap
12:11 PM Cromaglious_: +*Morning
12:12 PM TurBoss: Ok i already have it
12:12 PM dioz: if i have a pump pumping water into a container and i want the pump to stop pumping once the container is full
12:12 PM dioz: what do i need?
12:12 PM fragalot: dioz: float valve
12:13 PM dioz: that's the name!@
12:13 PM dioz: thnx
12:13 PM gloops: well thats basically it, just home the two to opposite sides, inverted travel, you got a mirror cut
12:13 PM fragalot: you're welcome
12:13 PM dioz: any of you guys ever thought of grey water collection in a residence?
12:14 PM dioz: so i'd flush my toilets with the shower water, for example
12:14 PM phipli: dioz, https://www.banggood.com/search/float-valve.html
12:14 PM gloops: the zs will need to be treated as the same axis
12:14 PM fragalot: Nope - I use rain and/or well water for that, dioz
12:14 PM fragalot: so there's little point in collecting grey water for that use
12:14 PM jesseg: dioz, I think it's a great idea, never tried it though
12:14 PM dioz: i know i'd need to re-do a bunch of plumbing in my house
12:14 PM MarcelineVQ: plumbing and power cost add up faster than water cost here, if a person needs to order extra water
12:15 PM dioz: and buy a few things... tanks and such
12:15 PM MarcelineVQ: grey water is a great idea but it's a better idea for houses built that way in the first place
12:15 PM gloops: plus toilet cistern full of grey - standing
12:15 PM Cromaglious_: http://ibb.co/k0Ge6w first motor mounted YAY!
12:15 PM phipli: actually dioz, if you want to cut the pump : https://www.banggood.com/search/float-switch.html
12:15 PM dioz: yah you don't store you shit water gloops
12:15 PM jesseg: dioz, but you might want to find out what your maximum savings would be. Just how much are you spending on water to flush toilet?
12:16 PM dioz: jesseg: true
12:16 PM jesseg: Probably a fraction of a cent per flush, and how many flushes a month?
12:16 PM dioz: i see a big green initiative taking place in the next 5-10 years
12:16 PM dioz: TBH
12:16 PM dioz: "conservation"
12:17 PM fragalot: dioz: is rain water not an option?
12:17 PM fragalot: it's clean, free, and less hassle than grey water
12:17 PM dioz: fragalot: it is... depends where you live though. i think we got 3 inches of water this summer
12:17 PM phipli: rain water would probably be easier
12:17 PM dioz: it was the dryest summer yet
12:17 PM phipli: connect drums to your downpipe
12:17 PM phipli: ah
12:17 PM MarcelineVQ: some places don't let you collect rain water as well
12:17 PM phipli: :)
12:17 PM fragalot: drums freeze
12:17 PM gloops: use the grey on the garden and the rainwater for the bog
12:17 PM phipli: you can have some of ours if you like
12:17 PM fragalot: until you bury them :P
12:17 PM fragalot: gloops: you do NOT want grey water in your garden
12:18 PM Cromaglious_: My new toilet, is 4.6l per flush, old was 7+l
12:18 PM fragalot: too much soap
12:18 PM gloops: fragalot dishwater gets rid of greefly
12:18 PM phipli: fragalot, he was talking about shower water, not toilet water
12:18 PM jesseg: fragalot, gardens like soap :P
12:18 PM jesseg: bugs don't like soap so it's win win :P
12:18 PM gloops: bath shower washing water - garden
12:18 PM MarcelineVQ: gardens like potassium soap, which is the more effective soaps for bugs, most hosuehold soaps are sodium soaps
12:19 PM gloops: rainwater - toilet
12:32 PM Tom_L: MarcelineVQ what's their reasoning in not allowing rainwater collection?
12:33 PM jesseg: It belongs to the ruling class.
12:35 PM sync: Cromaglious_: the sad thing is, in most places conserving water is not the right thing to do
12:35 PM gloops: probably scared they wont control your water supply
12:35 PM sync: it only saves the person that does it money
12:35 PM jesseg: Most governments are actually about 50% organized crime.. More in the US :P
12:35 PM fragalot: sync: it's a little more complicated than that
12:36 PM Tom_L: jesseg not that well organized either
12:36 PM fragalot: a lot of resources go into sanitizing the water to put back into the mains
12:36 PM fragalot: which can be a waste if all you use it for is cleaning your car
12:36 PM fragalot: but as you are not allowed to catch your own water, there is no alternative
12:36 PM Tom_L: fragalot how did you figure out what pins the encoder was on?
12:36 PM fragalot: so... conserve water.
12:36 PM jesseg: Tom_L, yeah the Mafia was much more well organized a hundred years ago -- but hey with the power of government they don't have to be well organized to survive.
12:36 PM fragalot: Tom_L: easy. I read the manual.
12:36 PM Tom_L: hahaha
12:37 PM gloops: rainwater, wind turbine, log burner - youre off the grid
12:37 PM fragalot: wind turbine alone is not enough here
12:37 PM sync: fragalot: no, it doesn't really matter what you use it for, at least here it does not
12:37 PM Tom_L: is that what those things are for?
12:37 PM gloops: except when it isnt windy or raining
12:39 PM gloops: well, centralised generation is more efficient, unless your house already has the means to collect water, like the roof
12:40 PM fragalot: here we are required to do the following, in this order
12:40 PM fragalot: a) collect & feed back to a separate sewer for rain water
12:40 PM fragalot: b) collect & feed into underground storage tank 5000L or larger with overflow to separate sewer
12:40 PM fragalot: c) infiltrate it into the ground if a & b are not possible
12:41 PM sync: the problem here is that the sewer and mains were not made with such low flowrates in mind
12:41 PM sync: so the water works needs to flush everything all the time
12:41 PM fragalot: sync: same here.
12:41 PM sync: yeah, so why conserve water
12:41 PM fragalot: bit by bit they are tearing up the streets to change that
12:42 PM fragalot: but it will take decades
12:42 PM fragalot: at one point they required houses to have 3 sewer outlets
12:42 PM fragalot: black, grey & rain
12:42 PM fragalot: they then realized the cost of having to collect these separately
12:43 PM fragalot: so now it's just waste & rain
12:45 PM IchGucksLive: no waiste time
12:45 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Large-Reeded-Corbels-with-Fan-base-Pair-ML656/272293054686?
12:46 PM gloops: 30 quid each, maybe 40 minute cut
12:46 PM MarcelineVQ: "<Tom_L> MarcelineVQ what's their reasoning in not allowing rainwater collection?" aquifer depletion probably
12:46 PM fragalot: gloops: have to earn money somehow
12:47 PM Tom_L: it gets there eventually, just takes a detour on the way
12:47 PM MarcelineVQ: as though the real reason for that isn't the mega-farms pulling it out to spray on crops in the middle of summer
12:47 PM gloops: apparently these large format routers are charging $250 an hour in the USA
12:47 PM MarcelineVQ: well no, if you collect it and re-evaporate it it doesn't get there, but I agree it's a silly thing to regulate for homes
12:48 PM Tom_L: and they charge a fee for property runoff
12:48 PM sync: well, it will get there at some point, but it might take a few trips up and down MarcelineVQ :P
12:48 PM gloops: all rivers lead to the ocean
12:48 PM MarcelineVQ: that's probably one of finegle's laws, if there's something tha can be charged it will be
12:49 PM gloops: most of this red tape and infrastructure changing is about keeping x number of people employed, and backhanders
12:49 PM gloops: nothing gets any better for it
12:49 PM fragalot: lol
12:50 PM gloops: trumo is doing it now - priming the economy
12:50 PM gloops: trump
12:50 PM fragalot: if they changed the law now, everyone would obviously immediately invest heavily in collection systems, which would starve the mains suppliers of water whilst those fill up
12:50 PM fragalot: so obviously there is nothing to be done
12:50 PM fragalot: :#
12:51 PM fragalot: at least in oregon some people can now fuel up themselve,s lol
12:56 PM gloops: UK is spending £80 billion on a high speed rail link from london to birmingham, biggest infrastructure project in europe, it will cut 20 minutes off the current journey
12:57 PM gloops: total waste of money - which is the idea all along
12:57 PM fragalot: public money spent to aid private companies
12:57 PM fragalot: privatizing public services is the biggest mistake ever made
12:57 PM gloops: i have to agree
12:58 PM fragalot: they keep pushing to do that in belgium too
12:58 PM fragalot: several years ago they already sold all of the trains
12:58 PM fragalot: and are now leasing back those same trains
12:58 PM gloops: are you still nationalised fragalot?
12:59 PM fragalot: gloops: yes
12:59 PM fragalot: mostly
12:59 PM gloops: pff cant see that lasting long
12:59 PM fragalot: cargo is privatized
12:59 PM fragalot: politicians keeps complaining that the national rail here is not profitable
12:59 PM fragalot: and I'm here thinking
01:00 PM fragalot: why on earth should a public service be profitable
01:00 PM gloops: phone, gas, electricity costs have easily quadrupled since privatisation - coal banned
01:00 PM gloops: the money it cost to bail the banks out would have kept our national services going for 100 years
01:01 PM fragalot: That was a brilliant crisis though wasn't it
01:02 PM gloops: yes, take every penny the taxpayer has got
01:02 PM fragalot: no before that
01:02 PM fragalot: the way it started
01:02 PM fragalot: the way it escalated
01:03 PM fragalot: absolutely brilliant to read about how it all happened
01:03 PM gloops: oh yeah, entertaining
01:03 PM gloops: you could be on the dole, walk into a car showroom and sign for a jag
01:04 PM fragalot: and the guy offering the contract would get a pat on the back
01:04 PM gloops: just put all those toxic debts into a bundle with a few decent ones on top and sell them on
01:05 PM fragalot: :D
01:14 PM IchGucksLive: Whow 8000 YT hits today SMILE :-)
01:16 PM gloops: 8000 a day?
01:16 PM IchGucksLive: no around 2k
01:17 PM IchGucksLive: this is todays Progress on Freecad i made https://youtu.be/JbShilPwgSU
01:17 PM gloops: should get pay per click set up Ichs
01:17 PM fragalot: yeah you could make like.. cents!
01:18 PM IchGucksLive: no i will stay free and delet on hitting 1Mio as i always do
01:18 PM IchGucksLive: or on 10k mails Qrequests a week
01:18 PM IchGucksLive: can someone check if sound is ok
01:19 PM fragalot: sounds alright to me
01:19 PM fragalot: I can't tell if it's "great" because i'm using my laptop speakers at the moment which are most certainly not great.
01:23 PM gloops: yes very good english Ichs, did you ever live in england?
01:23 PM gloops: im glad someone is working on the path section in freecad, once that is right it will be an excellent app
01:23 PM fragalot: IchGucksLive: when you enter the shaft diameter of 5mm, is it supposed to revert to 1mm when yoou click the cutting edge height field?
01:26 PM IchGucksLive: there is no live update on entry
01:50 PM gloops: also need to work on the loft and sweep so we can do creative stuff https://ibb.co/dJDJib
01:50 PM gloops: https://ibb.co/hnZPOb
01:59 PM Tom_L: did you draw that?
01:59 PM enleth: Why is it difficult to identify bodies of rednecks after a house fire? No dental record.
01:59 PM gloops: yeah just messing about with a pic i posted from ebay
01:59 PM Tom_L: what cad?
02:00 PM gloops: vectric aspire
02:00 PM gloops: - its no good for mechanical engineering stuff
02:00 PM Tom_L: more graphical design?
02:01 PM gloops: its mainly aimed at woodworkers, well you could use it for some metal things i suppose, but it isnt like engineering drawing, its more like inkscape
02:01 PM Tom_L: do they make vcarve too?
02:02 PM gloops: yeah thats it
02:02 PM Tom_L: ahh
02:02 PM gloops: same app but with a bit more 3d stuff
02:02 PM jdh: cut2d is good and cheapish
02:02 PM Tom_L: i thought there was a free ver of vcarve
02:02 PM Tom_L: or free ish
02:02 PM gloops: f engrave does some similar stuff
02:02 PM jdh: vcarve is art also
02:02 PM Tom_L: maybe that was it
02:16 PM gloops: ive not look at the loft and sweep and drive rail in freecad recently, i think it is up to artistic work now, in a roundabout way
02:16 PM gloops: most people using it are doing metal or 3d printing though
03:19 PM JT-Shop: some days are just bad days for making lan cables... I'm glad rj45 plugs are cheap
03:22 PM MarcelineVQ: yeah :(
03:22 PM MarcelineVQ: wires for ants!
03:25 PM gloops: ants are giants to dust mites
03:29 PM gloops: Cromaglious you are using gear to gear direct?
03:30 PM gloops: <Cromaglious_> http://ibb.co/k0Ge6w first motor mounted YAY!
03:31 PM gloops: how do you deal with backlash?
03:32 PM dioz: when my uncle does a weld i always tell him to paint it
03:32 PM dioz: cause the paint is, probably, stronger than his welds
03:32 PM dioz: everyone laughs
03:33 PM dioz: we laugh
03:33 PM Tom_L: bondo then paint :D
03:33 PM dioz: ^
03:33 PM dioz: forgot the bondo
03:33 PM dioz: you get a good coating of that self etching automotive paint
03:35 PM gloops: a few coats of thick black sht fooled many an MOT inspector
03:35 PM humble_sea_bass: bondo and paint makes me the welder i ain't
03:36 PM Tom_L: that's why body shops invented undercoat
03:36 PM dioz: i'm a big fan of walkin the cup
03:36 PM dioz: stackin them dimes
03:38 PM humble_sea_bass: ok big money
03:39 PM gloops: are you making a steel machine dioz?
03:39 PM humble_sea_bass: some of us just sink the electrode into the puddle and leave it there
03:39 PM humble_sea_bass: I should really practice the dime stacking
03:40 PM Deejay: gn8
05:26 PM roycroft: hey folks
05:26 PM roycroft: anyone around with knowledge of huanyang vfds and 24k router spindles?
05:27 PM roycroft: the magic smoke just came out of my spindle, and i don't understand why :(
05:27 PM roycroft: i suspect the answer to the first thing i want to know is that i probably cannot repair the spindle
05:29 PM roycroft: it ran fine for about 25 seconds, and now it doesn't run - i get eoca, which i assume is an over current error
05:31 PM XXCoder: is it bushed type? maybe brushings ran out
05:32 PM XXCoder: according to crom it should last 50 hours or so
05:32 PM roycroft: no, it has bearings
05:32 PM roycroft: in fact, i paid for premium bearings
05:32 PM XXCoder: brushings not bearings
05:32 PM roycroft: and it was the magic smoek that escaped
05:32 PM roycroft: smoke
05:33 PM XXCoder: odd
05:33 PM roycroft: not mechanical friction smoke
05:34 PM roycroft: i'm assuming i did something wrong in the vfd programming
05:34 PM roycroft: this is a real setback
05:34 PM XXCoder: maybe jt knows
05:34 PM roycroft: i wanted to get the vfd working with the remote panel this weekend
05:35 PM roycroft: and i want to be able to use the router to finish building the router stand
05:35 PM roycroft: not to mention the $200 for the spindle
05:35 PM * roycroft is pretty bummed about that
05:37 PM XXCoder: yeah though you could check spindle inside
05:37 PM XXCoder: see whats happening
05:37 PM roycroft: eoca is over current during ramp-up
05:38 PM roycroft: almost certainly due to whatever released the magic smoke
05:43 PM MarcelineVQ: roycroft: frequncy too high for the spindle? china vfd seem to be set at 400hz by default
05:43 PM MarcelineVQ: though I'd expect 24krpm to be 400hz, based on listings anyway
05:47 PM ziper: qeustion: i want to make a foil section out of foam on a CNC router. is it possible to make the surface smooth with a 3 axis or will I have to sand it afterwards or something
05:48 PM XXCoder: never seen smooth cut foam, even with wire cutter
05:51 PM XXCoder: of course depends on "smooth"
05:51 PM XXCoder: *definition
05:52 PM ziper: I want it to be more complex than possible with a wire foam cutter
05:53 PM XXCoder: whats you use foam stuff for?
05:54 PM ziper: core for composite layup
05:58 PM Roguish: hey all. anyone get 2 monitors to work on debian stretch?
06:06 PM XXCoder: roycroft: like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsXkNdVTyEw
06:08 PM roycroft: i set it at 400hz
06:08 PM roycroft: and the spindle is marked 400hz
06:09 PM XXCoder: guy in video have huge head
06:10 PM roycroft: no, not like that
06:10 PM roycroft: it still spins freely
06:11 PM roycroft: it was spinning just fine
06:11 PM roycroft: still ramping up
06:11 PM XXCoder: odd
06:11 PM roycroft: and then i saw a bit of the magic smoke escaping out the top
06:11 PM roycroft: i immediately shut it down, and as it spun down the smoke started coming out of the bottom as well
06:11 PM roycroft: top = collet end
06:11 PM roycroft: in my case
06:11 PM XXCoder: you sure its not just carbon bushes getting worn and releasing carbon powder
06:12 PM roycroft: no, it was magic smoke
06:12 PM roycroft: i know the smell
06:12 PM XXCoder: smells different I guess aha yeah
06:12 PM roycroft: there does not appear to be any electronics inside the spindle
06:12 PM XXCoder: i forgot about smell thing
06:12 PM roycroft: the only think i did not know is whether the spindle was 2 pole or 4 pole
06:12 PM roycroft: but every online reference i've seen to these spindles say it's 4 pole
06:13 PM XXCoder: there should be magnets and coils inside?
06:13 PM XXCoder: maybe its bad isulation on coils, or melted wires
06:13 PM roycroft: i'm pretty sure the vfd fed it too much current
06:14 PM roycroft: what i'm trying to figure out is why
06:14 PM roycroft: i'm also pretty sure, having partially disassembled it, that i'll be ordering a new spindle :(
06:15 PM XXCoder: you already said it was spinning free but if it wasnt then it could be jammed overcurrent
06:15 PM roycroft: burning up one hurts, but i can handle it
06:15 PM roycroft: burning up a secone one i absolutely cannot afford
06:15 PM roycroft: so i have to figure out why it happened
06:16 PM XXCoder: indeed
06:16 PM XXCoder: checked vdf with multimeter?
06:16 PM roycroft: what really bums me out is that i made so much apparent progress this weekend
06:17 PM roycroft: i've spent my spare time for the last 3 weeks working on it, but nothing to really show for all the effort
06:17 PM roycroft: this weekend i put the stand together, and mounted the router lift and the incra jig on it
06:17 PM roycroft: it was actually close to being usable
06:17 PM roycroft: and then this setback
06:18 PM roycroft: i can mount my porter-cable 7518 in the router lift to keep working on construction of the stand
06:18 PM roycroft: but i really wanted to start using the new spindle
06:19 PM roycroft: there are several folks here who are very familiar with that vfd, and are around a lot during the week, so i figure someone will probably be able to help me sort it out tomorrow
06:19 PM roycroft: blah - my hands smell like magic smoke now
06:21 PM XXCoder: one of those times I would be glad I cant smell
06:26 PM ziper: nothing smells worse than the handle of an old screwdriver
06:26 PM ziper: i dont know what they made those things out of
06:28 PM roycroft: i have a couple old clutch screwdrivers, with transparent yellow handles
06:28 PM roycroft: i've had them for 30+ years, and they still smell awful
06:28 PM roycroft: so i am not sure about the spindle now
06:29 PM roycroft: i just saw a video where a guy let the smoke out of one that looks just like mine, and his still worked
06:29 PM XXCoder: is it one I linked?
06:29 PM roycroft: he also was using a huanyang vfd at first, but he bypassed it for the test
06:29 PM roycroft: no
06:29 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZrXRZ8-Fj0
06:30 PM XXCoder: handheld ugh
06:30 PM roycroft: he has 3 phase power and a 3 phase variac
06:30 PM roycroft: i have neither
06:30 PM roycroft: so i'm not sure how to test mine
06:31 PM XXCoder: parameters on vdf
06:33 PM XXCoder: I guess such as hz, amp so on
06:37 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci08KrkmmsY
06:38 PM roycroft: there's the same setup as i have, but working properly
06:38 PM XXCoder: definitely nicer than mine lol
06:51 PM dioz: I NEED A PROJECT
06:54 PM XXCoder: dioz: what material?
06:55 PM XXCoder: and can you do casting?
06:59 PM XXCoder: this is pretty cool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKayXVwOaEk
07:01 PM XXCoder: unless you have flashdrive on keychain heh
07:03 PM XXCoder: heh one of his rare screwups
07:09 PM malcom2073: I wouldn't expect that to mess up the flash drive
07:10 PM Wolf__: yeah, I dont think solid state memory is effected by magnets
07:11 PM Tom_L: dioz, build a mill
07:12 PM malcom2073: Though come to think of it, if you pass a magnet by flash fast enough, I wonder if it would induce enough current to screw with it
07:14 PM roycroft: well i'm not sure what to make of this
07:14 PM roycroft: i got the motor turning again, briefly
07:15 PM roycroft: i saw that the spindle is marked 2.2A, which makes no sense to me
07:15 PM roycroft: it runs at 220vac, and is rated at 2.2kw
07:15 PM roycroft: that tells me it should draw 8A
07:15 PM roycroft: but for the heck of it, i set the max current to 2.2A
07:16 PM roycroft: and it runs for about 5 seconds slowly at 120Hz, then i get a "current overload at current speed" error
07:16 PM roycroft: if i set it to 4A i immediately get a current overload error, and it doesn't turn at all
07:17 PM roycroft: i had set it at 8A originally, which is where i had it set before when it worked fine
07:17 PM Wolf__: run it at 8 and wait for smoke?
07:17 PM roycroft: it doesn't smoke any more
07:18 PM roycroft: the smoke is gone :)
07:18 PM roycroft: the vfd kicks an error right away now at 8A
07:18 PM roycroft: and the spindle does not move
07:18 PM roycroft: i think i don't understand well enough how these things work
07:18 PM roycroft: i thought i did
07:18 PM roycroft: but now i don't think so
07:19 PM Wolf__: magic smoke is hard to reinstall
07:19 PM roycroft: as in impossible
07:20 PM roycroft: but if it truly was the magic smoke i thought it was, i don't understand why the spindle would turn at all when i power it up
07:20 PM Wolf__: 3 phase?
07:20 PM roycroft: yes
07:20 PM Wolf__: ohm out the coils?
07:20 PM XXCoder: roy the more stuff you know, the more stuff you know you don't know about.
07:20 PM roycroft: yeah, i'll do that next
07:21 PM roycroft: i think the resistance between any two should be low
07:21 PM roycroft: and the resistance between all combinations should be the same
07:21 PM roycroft: correct?
07:21 PM Wolf__: something like that
07:23 PM ziper: so if I want to do foam cutting could I just max out the feeds and increase the number of passes to get a better finish
07:25 PM roycroft: 1.01, 1.04, 0.94
07:26 PM roycroft: that's pretty close
07:26 PM roycroft: and at that low of a resistance, well within the margin of error of the test instrument
07:27 PM roycroft: that kind of indicates to me that the motor is probably ok
07:27 PM roycroft: so i don't know what's going on
07:27 PM roycroft: maybe the vfd is bad
07:29 PM roycroft: i have another vfd that i can try later on
07:37 PM gregcnc_: roycroft what burned up the motor or the drive?
07:50 PM roycroft: the smoke came out of the spindle
07:50 PM roycroft: and i think i lied earlier
07:50 PM roycroft: i thought the spindle still turned freely, but now it feels a little crunchy when i turn it by hand
07:51 PM roycroft: so i'm wondering if it's a problem with the bearings
07:51 PM roycroft: it seems odd that bearings would go bad so quickly, when the spindle has never been under load, and i paid for premium bearings
07:52 PM roycroft: but the thing was made in china, so all bets are off
07:52 PM roycroft: i'll have to take it apart again and check the bearings
07:57 PM * roycroft will do some more checking after dinner
07:59 PM Rab: Failed bearings would have to offer a serious amount of resistance to smoke winding(s) from overcurrent. More than max operating load. I wouldn't expect the motor to spin freely after such an event.
08:00 PM gregcnc_: right
08:00 PM gregcnc_: also check winding to ground
08:00 PM gregcnc_: I suspect winding fault
08:01 PM Rab: It might be instructive to spin the motor externally, and watch the generated winding voltages on a multi-channel scope.
08:02 PM Rab: If you see something different from three nearly-identical sine waves, that could expose an electrical problem.
08:05 PM Rab: If no scope, you might be able to determine something by shorting all the windings and rotating the shaft by hand, looking for uneven 'cogging'...dunno.
08:05 PM gregcnc_: is the residual magnetism enough for that to be reliable?
08:06 PM Rab: It would work if the spindle is permanent-magnet type. I don't know if that's the case.
08:06 PM gregcnc_: these are induction
08:06 PM Rab: Ahh, ignore everything I just said. ^_^
08:07 PM roycroft: i do have a scope
08:08 PM roycroft: i checked resistance between the coils earlier
08:08 PM Rab: I've used these techniques to examine permanent-magnet 3-phase BLDC motors. I don't know how a similar test might be applied to these spindles.
08:08 PM roycroft: and it was similar for all 3 combinations
08:09 PM roycroft: iirc, 1.04 ohams, 1.02, and 0.94
08:09 PM Rab: How about to ground?
08:09 PM roycroft: not to ground
08:09 PM roycroft: you think one may be shorted?
08:09 PM Rab: One way to find out.
08:09 PM roycroft: yeah
08:09 PM gregcnc_: possible
08:09 PM roycroft: i have to fix dinner now
08:09 PM roycroft: i'll check that after
08:10 PM roycroft: here's a cringeworthy video in the meantime:
08:10 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U1-6rEHBGA
08:11 PM roycroft: i promise i won't be using any of those techniques to replace bearings
08:11 PM roycroft: but sadly, that may be exactly how this thing was built in the first place
08:13 PM Tom_L: you just press them in with a hammer right?
08:13 PM gregcnc_: it's funny that people think these are built to a higher standard than this
08:14 PM roycroft: sometimes they are
08:14 PM gregcnc_: at real spindle companies
08:14 PM roycroft: but some factories just ship boxes of parts to guys like that and expect finished assemblies back
08:14 PM roycroft: i just did the short test
08:14 PM roycroft: none of the coils are shorte
08:14 PM roycroft: dd
08:15 PM Rab: Oh ffffuuuuu, he's cranking the vise down on the rotor
08:15 PM roycroft: yeah, i thought you folks might find that video entertaining, in a painful way :)
08:15 PM gregcnc_: eh it probably won't bend
08:15 PM Tom_L: that dude needs a new vise
08:15 PM roycroft: one of the best parts is how the knob on his vice handle keeps coming off
08:16 PM Tom_L: and a bench to put it on
08:16 PM gregcnc_: working on the floor is normal
08:16 PM roycroft: yes
08:16 PM roycroft: that's a cultural thing
08:16 PM Tom_L: i guess if you drop it, it won't fall far
08:16 PM roycroft: i don't fault him for working on the floor
08:16 PM roycroft: but he needs to bolt the vise to the floor
08:16 PM Tom_L: it would kill my back
08:16 PM Rab: If your vise has enough mass, you don't need to secure it.
08:17 PM roycroft: that one doesn't
08:17 PM roycroft: it moves a lot
08:17 PM Rab: It's more versatile that way, better accessibility from different angles.
08:19 PM roycroft: /me heads off to market
08:26 PM jdh: speaking of markets.
08:27 PM jdh: when this little piggy went to market, was he shopping or being shopped?
08:28 PM * Jymmm sprinkles dry rub on jdh
08:29 PM Jymmm: ...then fires up the smoker
08:30 PM Rab: Anybody have a favored grease for ballscrews and linear bearings?
08:31 PM gregcnc_: spec sheet have anything to say?
08:32 PM Jymmm: I've just used white lithium grease YMMV
08:32 PM Rab: For general use across different brands. But for compatibility, yeah, looking up mfg spec is probably wise.
08:32 PM Jymmm: No, I take that back, just
08:33 PM sync: Tom_L: the way he squats it is actually not too bad
08:33 PM Jymmm: Just whatever I can get in the autoparts store that fits the grease gun
08:33 PM Jymmm: I HAD used white, but the remved it and used te plain stuff
08:33 PM Jymmm: then*
08:34 PM Rab: I have a collection of used name-brand motion control parts, Thomson NSK etc. Mostly they seem to be coated with some kind of clear film.
08:35 PM sync: look what the manufacturer say to use
08:35 PM Rab: Thomson has LinearLube, AS2 seems to be NSK's thing. All pretty expensive.
08:36 PM sync: cheaper than replacing your drivetrain
08:37 PM Rab: Indeed.
08:38 PM sync: but any lithium soap probably works
08:45 PM Crom_: I also have 3 right angle gear boxes comming for weld positioners
08:58 PM roycroft: so i pulled the spindle apart
08:58 PM roycroft: there are two smaller bearings on the end opposite the collet holder
08:58 PM roycroft: they are fine
08:58 PM roycroft: there are two larger bearings at the end by the collet holder
08:58 PM roycroft: they can be finger turned, but are crunchy
08:59 PM roycroft: the spindle did not get hot in the few seconds that i ran it
08:59 PM roycroft: and i ran it for a few minutes when i first got it
09:00 PM roycroft: i don't know what to make of it
09:00 PM roycroft: maybe they came crappy and just took a few minutes to start failing?