#linuxcnc Logs
Jan 19 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:07 AM gloops: well, ill keep an eye out for something, dont need it this minute
12:12 AM gloops: pfred1 me? no i tried running it on mint, the kernels got crossed, that might well be me not knowing what i was doing though
12:12 AM gloops: its already moved i think
12:12 AM pfred1: getting the kernel right can be tricky
12:12 AM gloops: jesse
12:12 AM pfred1: ah so they moved forward with Debian
12:13 AM Contract_Pilot: Path Pilot is Linuxcnc Based Running on Mint
12:13 AM pfred1: I never found Mint to be particularly quality
12:13 AM pfred1: I had a laptop that ran it once and it would randomly lock up occasionally
12:14 AM pfred1: plus the install was sort of buggered right off the get go
12:14 AM gloops: i never have many problems with mint, i dont do anything demanding though on it
12:14 AM pfred1: somehow they managed ot hard code the CD path into the install
12:14 AM Contract_Pilot: not sure why tormach does not just make a package and put ot on a repo
12:15 AM pfred1: so even though the install would boot off USB it couldn't install with the image on USB
12:15 AM pfred1: which I thought was just stupid
12:15 AM gloops: you can get the 2.8 lcnc from the repository, installs as an update, its better if youre doing more than xyz with 1 motor on each
12:15 AM Contract_Pilot: Yep, looking for a CD drive
12:16 AM pfred1: a lot of Liinux is pretty amateur hour though
12:16 AM Contract_Pilot: I am still learning it..
12:16 AM pfred1: me too
12:16 AM gloops: ive always installed mint from usb, no problems really
12:16 AM pfred1: 23 years in and I'm still just learning it
12:16 AM Contract_Pilot: then i move on to somthing else and forget it.
12:17 AM pfred1: yeah it was quite some time ago I had that problem they've probably fixed it by now
12:17 AM pfred1: toda yI got my first custom kernel to boot first time
12:17 AM pfred1: I never did that before
12:17 AM pfred1: I always forget something
12:18 AM pfred1: this time though it fired right up
12:18 AM gloops: i dont know there are some pretty good apps for linux, gimp is on par with photoshop
12:18 AM pfred1: people that run photoshop say different
12:18 AM gloops: blender - lncnc probably better than mach3
12:18 AM Contract_Pilot: Let see how much the drive experts are gonna charge me to decipher this Emerson VFD to Proper Hitachi Settings. 1/3 of the cost of a new Emerson drive will be my cut off point.
12:19 AM pfred1: Linux sure has no CAM on par with what they have in Windows
12:19 AM gloops: but then there are those apps that take all night to compile and its just a OXO game
12:19 AM pfred1: fuson 360 is good enough that no one will be too interested in developing FLOSS there
12:20 AM pfred1: heh I got KiCAD 4.0.7 to build on Wheezy
12:20 AM pfred1: when i told the devs hey said that's impossible
12:20 AM pfred1: I said not impossible just incredibly difficult
12:20 AM Contract_Pilot: Fusion 360 still learning that also...
12:21 AM gloops: CAM is a weak spot yes, heekscnc was working towards it, seems freecad could be the best hope or blendercam - which no-one uses
12:21 AM pfred1: yeah I use freecad but my copy is really buggy
12:22 AM pfred1: I don't have the best dependencies for it
12:22 AM gloops: depends what for really, f engrave is good
12:22 AM pfred1: I'm hoping on my new machine freecad runs a lot smoother
12:23 AM gloops: g code ripper does 4 axis wrapping, they need to get together and get all these bitty cam scripts together in 1
12:23 AM pfred1: open source often has a problem integrating applications
12:24 AM pfred1: you don't have so many software suites as you do jumbles of programs
12:25 AM pfred1: which is the UNIX way but it can also make things inaccessible too
12:25 AM gloops: yeah, it seems a lot of people script something very specific for a task theyre working on, it really needs the knowledge pooling and one app building to do all
12:25 AM pfred1: like yesterday configuring my kernel I found this command line and it is clever as hell
12:25 AM pfred1: but I never came up with it myself
12:26 AM pfred1: I need to use xargs more often
12:27 AM pfred1: find -name Makefile | xargs grep soundcore
12:27 AM pfred1: that filters every makefile for the string soundcore
12:28 AM pfred1: it's brilliant
12:54 AM XXCoder: pfred1: what version?
12:54 AM IchGucksLive: morning
12:54 AM XXCoder: hey
12:54 AM pfred1: XXCoder what version of what?
12:54 AM XXCoder: frecad
12:54 AM pfred1: oh let me see
12:55 AM pfred1: 0.17
12:55 AM XXCoder: some distro defaults are ancient
12:55 AM XXCoder: ah unstable version
12:55 AM IchGucksLive: freecad can visolise kicad
12:55 AM pfred1: I built it myself so real unstable
12:55 AM IchGucksLive: its in the last compile stae to be relesed
12:55 AM XXCoder: stage eh'
12:55 AM XXCoder: nice
12:56 AM XXCoder: so file save format is getting finalized?
12:56 AM IchGucksLive: i think my CRC gcode maker dident make it inside 0.17
12:57 AM IchGucksLive: the night build on sunday will show
12:57 AM IchGucksLive: this is the last to be in
12:57 AM pfred1: XXCoder wqant to see something funny?
12:58 AM pfred1: XXCoder here's the library deps for freecad https://paste.ubuntu.com/26415075/
12:58 AM pfred1: all 92 of them
12:58 AM XXCoder: fancy
01:01 AM jesseg: yeah I'm kind of leaning toward the ideology that that shared libraries should be kept to a bare minimum of carefully tested stable code that must be shared in order to support inter-application compatibility. Otherwise, all the code a project needs should be included in the source tree. When you compile it, you got what you need. If you want to build it static then you get a binary that'll run almost anywhere.
01:01 AM jesseg: Sure, it takes up more disk space. But really. You can't even buy a hard drive under half a terabyte now :P
01:01 AM pfred1: oh I've had some fights with shared objects
01:02 AM jesseg: I hate dependency hell personally :P Of course I'm a bitter slackware user LOL
01:02 AM pfred1: I ran Slackware for a long time
01:02 AM pfred1: it made me really appreciate package management
01:03 AM pfred1: I ran Slack from 3 to 8
01:03 AM pfred1: I installed 8 but then gave up on it
01:03 AM jesseg: yeah I think I started around 3 or so
01:03 AM pfred1: I went and ran Redhat like just about everyone else did
01:04 AM pfred1: until they made people register for up2date
01:04 AM jesseg: lol
01:04 AM pfred1: Rh 7.2 was da bomb though
01:04 AM jesseg: What's your favorite now a days?
01:04 AM pfred1: hard to say they all suck in their own way
01:05 AM jesseg: LOL yeah
01:05 AM pfred1: all my systems run Debian but I'm installing Gentoo
01:05 AM pfred1: which I can't recommend except to machosists
01:05 AM pfred1: if you love pain then Gentoo might have something for you
01:06 AM pfred1: it's like Linux From Scratch
01:06 AM jesseg: yeah I tried out gentoo long time ago. At the time I had dialup and downloading all those sources was just not working for me LOL
01:06 AM jesseg: I've heard it's a lot better nowdays too
01:07 AM pfred1: I ran Gentoo qu8ite a few years ago and I don't know if I'd call what I'm going through now better
01:07 AM jesseg: but I have a love hate relationship with package managers. They sure make things easy when they work. But when they break, it can be a bloody mess. I'm not smart enough to deal with that, so I still prefer slackware :P
01:07 AM pfred1: I've experienced very little breakage
01:08 AM pfred1: I vaguely remembr having to rebuilt an apt database once
01:08 AM pfred1: but it was only once and it was so long ago
01:08 AM jesseg: yeah most of the time they work great. But sometimes the deep magic leaks out :P
01:08 AM pfred1: I've heard a lot of horror stories about gentoo
01:09 AM pfred1: but I just started running it
01:09 AM pfred1: heck I'm lost in it so far
01:10 AM pfred1: I just got the basic install done and got a custom kernel compiled i haven't even fired up the desktop yet
01:10 AM pfred1: gentoo's default kernel is one of the worst
01:15 AM XXCoder: 10 years to go eh
01:30 AM gloops: lol, i read forum posts where people have been making a cnc machine for 2 years, i used to wonder - how the hell can it take that long?
01:31 AM gloops: for someone working 5 days, family etc, thats not bad i guess
01:32 AM XXCoder: longer for me bleh
01:32 AM Loetmichel: hihi. I had the first "brake check" since i got my license 15 years ago yesterday on the commute home... some guy in a toyota aygo was seemingly angry that i didnt let him filter in at the end of a freeway, so he filtered in behind me, overtook on the right afterwards (forbidden in germany), then got back in front of me and slammed the brakes hard... I only thought "Try it, make my day! Your
01:32 AM Loetmichel: brandnew car is 800kg, my old car is 2 metric tons, dashcam is recording..." seems me grinning ear to ear in the review mirror was a bit unsettling, he sped off:-)
01:32 AM XXCoder: to be fair, first 2 years it was very slowly svaing up money and buying parts
01:32 AM gloops: if it takes 200 hours, say 4 hours a weekend, 50 weekends - a year
01:33 AM gloops: XXCoder that part of it is also probably vastly underestimated by most who try
01:34 AM gloops: Loetmichel here anyway, no matter what, if you hit someone from the rear its your fault
01:35 AM XXCoder: yeah
01:35 AM XXCoder: though with video record could sue
01:35 AM XXCoder: insurance its always guy at back thats at fault
01:35 AM Loetmichel: gloops: ... unless you can proof that he did it on pourpose
01:35 AM gloops: yeah the aggressive driving wouldnt help his case, but that might go down as a completely seperate incident
01:36 AM gloops: you saw him acting like an ass - you should have kept your distance
01:36 AM XXCoder: btw it is also illegal to block merging. :)
01:36 AM Loetmichel: nope, in germany that would be fun in court. he would get 100% of the blame and his insurance would get back my cars damages from him.
01:36 AM XXCoder: in usa anyway
01:37 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: i didnt. there was simply no room in front of me. I am NOT obligated to slam the brakes to let someone in. and he could have merged behind me, there was plenty of space
01:37 AM XXCoder: interesting. im never that close to vehicle in front of me
01:38 AM XXCoder: wa state is 50th best driving state in usa. thats why I trust nobody
01:39 AM XXCoder: http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh3BBtjMJ3hyS67aaV
01:40 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: i was decellerating because the freeway has 100kmh limit and the corner at the end has 40kmh limit
01:41 AM Loetmichel: so i was close to the car in front of my, about 2 cars lengths
01:41 AM XXCoder: thats not bad
01:41 AM XXCoder: here people drive like air between cars is bad thing
01:41 AM Loetmichel: he could have forced his way in there, but i think he wasnt bold enough
01:44 AM Loetmichel: instead he drove the entire 300m or so of white line crossed "disappearing lane" aside me, then slammed the brakes hard when the barrier came up in front of him and got in behind me
01:44 AM XXCoder: gee
01:44 AM XXCoder: when you said you was close to car, I was picturing less than half car length
01:45 AM XXCoder: sorry, im too used to wonderous drivers in this state
01:45 AM Loetmichel: <- german. we are usually a bit more disciplined.
01:45 AM XXCoder: sadly due to so many calfornians moving north and bringing their bad driving habits
01:45 AM XXCoder: they cant drive for shit in rain and snow also lol
01:46 AM Loetmichel: comes with the "no limit" autobahns i gues
01:46 AM Loetmichel: +s
01:47 AM pfred1: the yused to drive bumper to bumper on the highways out in cali
01:47 AM XXCoder: yep
01:47 AM pfred1: they'd have huge pipe ups in the 70s
01:48 AM pfred1: make the national news
01:48 AM pfred1: 70 cars
01:48 AM XXCoder: they are used to dry roads also. 99.99999% of time it is.
01:48 AM XXCoder: even during rainy times lol
01:48 AM pfred1: we used to oil roads to keep the dust down
01:48 AM pfred1: I can remember seeing the oil truck
01:49 AM pfred1: just spraying oil on the road
01:49 AM XXCoder: isnt oil bad for aspalt
01:49 AM pfred1: oh that's for dirt road
01:49 AM pfred1: give it that junkyard pack after a while
01:50 AM pfred1: you ever seen the soil in an old junkyard?
01:50 AM pfred1: how it crusts up from the fluids leaking?
01:51 AM XXCoder: one I used to go to sometimes used rocks but yeah super oily
01:51 AM XXCoder: rocks were all solid black
01:51 AM pfred1: oil and clay makes a kind of ashphalt
01:52 AM pfred1: man we sure were ignorant back in the day
01:53 AM XXCoder: thats what science is for
01:53 AM XXCoder: finding facts, and averting fooling pourselves.
01:54 AM pfred1: science is ilke a car flying forward with the frint windshield and side windows painted black you can only look out the back window and see everything you ran over
01:55 AM XXCoder: lol not really
01:55 AM pfred1: I didn't just make that up it's a famous quote
01:55 AM XXCoder: its like guy in room searching for black cat with flashlight
01:55 AM XXCoder: partial quote heh
01:56 AM XXCoder: religion is like looking for black cat that aren't there in dark room, and saying "I found it!"
01:56 AM pfred1: nah we just don't know the long term effects of anything until after a long time has passed
01:59 AM XXCoder: science isnt only about long term effects
02:00 AM IchGucksLive: off
02:00 AM Deejay: moin
02:01 AM XXCoder: lol
02:01 AM XXCoder: just watched video about guy using fire to do haircuts on people
02:02 AM XXCoder: crazy
02:02 AM pfred1: oh yeah I've seen that
02:02 AM pfred1: it must stink to the high heavens i hate the smell of burning hair
02:02 AM XXCoder: it says they use smells stuff to avoid that
02:02 AM XXCoder: performine whatever
02:03 AM pfred1: yeah it is a singularly nasty smell
02:03 AM pfred1: we must have evolved to hate it
02:04 AM XXCoder: yeah
02:04 AM pfred1: usually if yur hair's on fire it's not good
02:04 AM XXCoder: probably burning hair is slighly negative to ones health
02:04 AM Loetmichel: i think its from back when we had fur
02:04 AM pfred1: I'm on fire!
02:04 AM XXCoder: you know blackboard sound being hated?
02:05 AM XXCoder: they finally found out it sounds like rock being crewed
02:05 AM XXCoder: chewed
02:05 AM pfred1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qzSapxY71A
02:05 AM XXCoder: so its very bad for teeth
02:06 AM gloops: singeing - that is the mark of high class barbers
02:07 AM gloops: they used to use smouldering tapers
02:07 AM pfred1: kinky
02:08 AM gloops: i just go to a standard gents barber, never seen much of the high end of barbering
02:08 AM pfred1: now in memory of tommy jameson I gotta listen to this next song too
02:08 AM pfred1: Van Halen - Somebody Get Me A Doctor
02:09 AM gloops: he uses a cutthroat razor for trimming, i tense up while hes doing that
02:09 AM pfred1: we were throwing a party and this song came on this kid dove from the kitchen onto the concrete floor in the basement on his knees and yelled somebody get me a doctor!
02:10 AM gloops: sort of thing that happens at some parties
02:10 AM pfred1: it sure did
02:11 AM Loetmichel: gloops: weakling
02:11 AM Loetmichel: ever seen "my name is nobody" with terence hill? ;)
02:11 AM pfred1: I'm gonna have to google that
02:12 AM pfred1: wow old movie
02:12 AM gloops: at my old barbers, who was an old barber, there used to be this backward man in the village, he always went there for a shave, he was a sound person but a real pain in the ass in the waiting area, so the barber used to get him straight in the chair when he turned up - in and straight out
02:12 AM pfred1: I seens a lot of old westerns but this one isn't ringing a bell
02:12 AM gloops: he used to shave him with cutthroat in about 6 strokes lol, perfect job but scary to watch
02:13 AM Loetmichel: *zipZip* "ups, is that your ear? REALLLY sorry!" ;)
02:13 AM pfred1: some folks got mad skillz
02:14 AM gloops: when you think thats sharper than a new stanley blade, wiping it straight across someones throat
02:15 AM pfred1: I strop edges on a jeweler's rouge charged leather strop now
02:15 AM pfred1: it's the finishing touch
02:15 AM Loetmichel: pfred1: there was a scene where the bad boys were imposting as the barber and tried to cut the throat of the main character... he sits down in the chair, totally relaxed... the bad boy starts to shave and then you hear the sound of a .45 colt hammer cocking...
02:15 AM Loetmichel: perfect shave ;)
02:16 AM pfred1: Loetmichel that does sound familiar
02:16 AM pfred1: I probably have seen it at one time
02:16 AM pfred1: I like old westerns
02:20 AM gloops: the laurel and hardy was funny - where got the paint brush stuck to his chin, and the other one shaved him with a plane blade
02:21 AM pfred1: heh
02:22 AM gloops: pretty long clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNdJZHaMqBk
02:23 AM gloops: thing with those old movies, the art of stunts was probably not a science, i think he really hits him over the head with that saw lol
02:25 AM Loetmichel: hihi, that plane blade probably really was sharp enough to shave. old well maintained tools were like that
02:25 AM XXCoder: probably removed for stunt but yeah heh
02:25 AM XXCoder: didnt give a fuck on actors rights back then
02:26 AM XXCoder: I remember the cariot race scene.
02:26 AM XXCoder: they didnt fake it.
02:26 AM XXCoder: horses were hurt, humans hurt
02:26 AM XXCoder: few killed but cant remember if humans was killed also
02:52 AM gloops: i wonder as cnc grows, and the markets get flooded with cnc made products, the value of hand made items will increase
02:54 AM archivist: artisan makers can command a very high price
02:54 AM gloops: a carved wooden object will be no more difficult or expensive to make than a plastic moulding
02:55 AM archivist: bbc4 had a program about a shoemakers a couple of days ago, 4000 for a pair of shoes
02:55 AM gloops: and everybody hates plastic
02:55 AM gloops: there is a traditional cobbler in doncaster, i think a pair of hand made shoes/boots starts at around £250/400 upwards
02:56 AM gloops: ive looked at them a few times - and as he says, he can repair them for as long as hes trading, lifetime shoes
02:57 AM archivist: http://www.johnlobbltd.co.uk/main/main.htm
02:58 AM gloops: a cnc made chippendale cabinet, a hand made chippendale cabinet, exactly the same, but people will say - oh its only a cnc made one
02:58 AM gloops: not worth anything
02:58 AM XXCoder: gloops: heh my feet is shoe killer
02:58 AM XXCoder: I buy expensive american made shoes, $130 or so and my feet kills em in 3 years
02:59 AM XXCoder: which is amazing really. cheap tennis shoes die in 6 months to a year
02:59 AM gloops: well depends how theyre made XXCoder, most of the cheap stuff cant be repaired really, glued together, they used to sole and heel stitched shoes as the norm
03:00 AM gloops: not that i know much about shoes, but we've taken shoes to be repaired before and hes said nah, cant do anything with those
03:01 AM gloops: can tell theyre expensive archivist - no prices, please enquire
03:02 AM archivist: each pair is a negotiation
03:04 AM archivist: takes about 6 months to make a pair, some can no longer afford at the end of the time, owner mentioned , they get left with us
03:04 AM XXCoder: geez
03:05 AM XXCoder: as long as my feet isnt corrected I wont buy those lol
03:06 AM gloops: used to see that in the taylors window - suit made for someone, never collected
03:06 AM gloops: used to pay in stages though, so didnt lose everything
03:06 AM XXCoder: I guess they ban people who dont pony up at end
03:07 AM archivist: I have made gears and customer went quiet, so still have them
03:08 AM gloops: probably as well to take a deposit archivist, if its enough to think about
03:11 AM gloops: well, time to get this thing bolted down and levelled again, few braces to tack on
03:12 AM gloops: motors on over weekend, strip old machine and oust it - space finally
03:15 AM Loetmichel: my CNC router is making another backing plate fopr a PC door... only 1000++ 3.2mm drills made with helix milling and a 2mm mill bit... hours later... ;)
03:15 AM Loetmichel: like this one: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16940&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 (lower pic)
03:16 AM gloops: how would they do that commercially?
03:16 AM gloops: stamped, punched maybe
03:17 AM XXCoder: likely punched then rad bent
03:18 AM Loetmichel: gloops: you mean me?
03:18 AM gloops: ive looked at beehives, making the wooden parts, but theres also a metal divider thats slotted all over, doable with a router but would take ages compared to the cost i guess
03:18 AM Loetmichel: series production of these is made by a CNC punch at a sheet metal specialist
03:18 AM gloops: Loet i was just wondering how they would do 1000 holes on an industrial scale - likely punched out
03:19 AM Loetmichel: i only do prototypes in house
03:19 AM Loetmichel: as i said: CNC punch
03:19 AM XXCoder: heh I used to run cnc mill by cnc punch machine
03:19 AM XXCoder: most times its not bad but sometimes they punch thicker sheets...
03:20 AM Loetmichel: trumpf cnc punch like this one, only a few years older: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76I_T2KzGTw
03:22 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: "our" punch guy can do 6mm mild steel
03:22 AM XXCoder: i still wonder why they do trandom order
03:22 AM Loetmichel: ... the whole shop floor is shaking when he does that
03:22 AM XXCoder: i never really looked at metal sheet sizes but dont think I seen it run more than 3 mm?
03:23 AM XXCoder: that looks like reserant there?
03:24 AM Loetmichel: rserant?
03:25 AM XXCoder: yeah its odd, I see chairs and glass fence there
03:25 AM Loetmichel: ah, restaurant
03:25 AM XXCoder: probably just viewer area but looks like resturant heh
03:25 AM Loetmichel: its probably the showcase of Trumpf
03:25 AM Loetmichel: showroom
03:26 AM Loetmichel: that machine looks brandnew
03:26 AM Loetmichel: not like in a shop floor either
03:26 AM XXCoder: yeah
03:26 AM Loetmichel: or maybe its on hannover industrial fair
04:19 AM gloops: my confidence in using grub screws is restored a bit..just tried pulleys and belt on the screw - virtually 0 resistance from the turning with the big pulley
04:19 AM gloops: wasnt looking forward to drilling motor shaft anyway
04:22 AM gloops: slightly confusing, even at this late stage, no sign of the 'big snag' that ditches the whole thing, it might just bloody work
04:25 AM Loetmichel: grub screws (if single and not three all 120°) have the problem that they tend to displace the pulley a bit
04:25 AM Loetmichel: which makes for a certain amount of wobble.
04:25 AM gloops: could come from opposing sides
04:26 AM Loetmichel: otherwise they are a proven mehtod to transfer small torque between shaft and pulley
04:26 AM gloops: the wobble i reckon will not have much effect on accuracy, it might affect vibration though at 1500 rpm
04:26 AM Loetmichel: 2 at 180° work too, but less effective bcause the pulley can still wobble at the 90° position
04:27 AM gloops: have you found wobble to be a problem Loet?
04:27 AM Loetmichel: yeah, its pretty small wobble anyway. Could affect slignt woobly walls though when on y or x pulleys on bedflingers
04:27 AM gloops: what i ought to do is stick the pulley on and check for any wobble as it sits, then place the screw to counter that
04:28 AM Loetmichel: i usually use 35um thick copper tape to "shim" the pulley/shaft until there is no wobble left
04:28 AM Loetmichel: when i use grub screws
04:29 AM gloops: hmm, well will know better when i come to fit them, and when it runs first time, sure something can be sorted to minimise it
04:29 AM gloops: i was concerned about grub screws slipping but cant see it happening now, its really little force to move the gantry
04:30 AM Loetmichel: oh sorry, the bedflinger is a 3dprinter, didnt notice that this is not #rebrap
04:30 AM Loetmichel: -b+p
04:30 AM Loetmichel: 3dprinbters usually have belt drives on the axes
04:31 AM Loetmichel: and direct mounted pulleys on the stepper shafts
04:31 AM XXCoder: tsk tsk heh
04:31 AM Loetmichel: thats where a small wobble can make a difference in positioning
04:31 AM gloops: yeah i see what you mean, belts as driving system
04:31 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq3kCMxK2So nice
04:31 AM XXCoder: he converted toy forklift into remote control
04:32 AM gloops: thats a bit like how they do seamless gutters
04:32 AM gloops: oh not that, wrong video
04:33 AM Loetmichel: whats a seamless gutter?
04:36 AM XXCoder: I wonder also
04:36 AM gloops: they make gutters without joints, like if your roof is 10 metres long they roll one piece of aluminium to make a 10 metre length of gutter
04:36 AM gloops: you cant buy a 10 metre length off the shelf
04:36 AM XXCoder: ahh yea
04:36 AM XXCoder: essentally rolling bender in van
04:36 AM XXCoder: with big alum roll
04:36 AM gloops: thats it yeah
04:37 AM gloops: you see a small van and a guy walking backwards pulling a 10 metre length of gutter out - how the hell did he get that in there
04:37 AM XXCoder: ask doctor who
04:39 AM gloops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0ppzB47nj4
05:39 AM Tom_L: 29
05:40 AM XXCoder: great video gloops
05:42 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9er0mCZA-8 one of videos shown at end of video heh
05:53 AM SpeedEvil: gloops: Also, you can roll up a curved bit of metal sometimes.
05:53 AM SpeedEvil: With it not unbending
05:53 AM SpeedEvil: See tapemeasures for an obvious example
05:56 AM jthornton: yea 10:00:15 of daylight today
06:04 AM gloops: probably something diyable with any old lathe to make the dies
06:04 AM gloops: hand cranked
06:15 AM SpeedEvil: ~6H here.
06:15 AM SpeedEvil: gloops: even wood, likely
06:35 AM jthornton: looking at the same water heater at the same home depot and linux price is $489 on a windows pc the price is $518 wtf
06:49 AM roycroft: they're pulling an amazon
07:35 AM Todd_Z: The windows price includes MS's cut.
07:36 AM archivist: or the extra hand holding a windaz user needs
07:37 AM Todd_Z: In truth, probably a computer location setting thing, and one is including local taxes that arn't showing up on the other.
07:54 AM SpeedEvil: a/b testing is a big thing in retail, if you serve people different prices, it lets you find out what your best option is
08:53 AM gloops: a well deserved cup of tea, positive waves are flooding the garage again
08:54 AM SpeedEvil: waves of tea?
08:55 AM gloops: waves of success
08:56 AM gloops: almost..
08:59 AM gloops: ive cadged an old stainless steel bathroom cabinet for an electrics box
08:59 AM gloops: if i screw that to a wooden wall, will it need earthing?
09:00 AM archivist: any exposed metal box yes
09:00 AM gloops: the psus will be fastened to it, drivers etc
09:01 AM archivist: its for any fault condition so the earth leakage breaker trips on a fault
09:02 AM gloops: to earth it - connect it to the domestic earth, or knock a rod in the floor and wire to it
09:03 AM archivist: I would connect to domestic
09:03 AM archivist: that should have its own rod anyway
09:03 AM gloops: thats easy enough then
09:04 AM gloops: got a socket at the side, could just jump to that earth
09:07 AM enleth: gloops: see if you have access to the main earth connection for the building, it *might* be a terminal strip of some sort allowing you to connect an additional wire without loosening existing connections (which is a bad idea unless you cut the power first)
09:08 AM enleth: or the earthing strip in the closest junction box
09:08 AM enleth: slapping a jumper wire to the closest socket is a bit of a bad style
09:08 AM gloops: nearest big earth is the bathroom i think, they went to the pipes, nothing within 5 metres
09:09 AM enleth: ah, the pipe-as-a-ground horror
09:10 AM gloops: well, i dont know how the house is earthed tbh, but there are earth connections to the pipes
09:10 AM enleth: works perfectly, until someone decides to swap out the corroded steel pipes for PP and forgets about the ground connection in the next room/adjacent house/whatever
09:11 AM gloops: i dont think theres much risk from a safety point of view it will trip the circuit board
09:21 AM gloops: well, i was going to leave the z until id seen the x and y work, i think ill do it now, need some screw bearings making and fitting
09:24 AM enleth: gloops: the risk with bad earthing is precisely that it *won't* trip the breaker until it's too late
09:27 AM enleth: a metal enclosure hanging off a wooden wall can become electrified if its earthing connection fails and the breaker most likely will do nothing *until* you touch it
09:27 AM enleth: at which point it will only trip *after* your body has become a short circut capable of carrying whatever the breaker is rated to
09:28 AM enleth: i.e. a smoky crisp
09:29 AM enleth: generally circut breakers do absolutely nothing to prevent electrocution, they're for fire prevention
09:29 AM gloops: ok, im not arguing or anything, i know very little about electrics, but say i have a psu screwed to the cabinet, the psu is plugged in to the mains and earthed - wont that make an earth in that scenario?
09:30 AM archivist: yes
09:30 AM enleth: preventing electrocution is done by proper earthing and GFCI devices
09:30 AM enleth: yes, it will
09:30 AM enleth: it just sounded like you were considering additional earthing for the cabinet itself
09:30 AM Roguish: typical circuit breaker is way to slow to prevent electrocution. and breakers are generally only rated for a single 'trip', after that no guarentee
09:30 AM archivist: UK generally has good safe electrical circuits
09:32 AM enleth: Roguish: interesting, I've never heard of the latter
09:32 AM gloops: i will earth the cabinet as well, ill have a look to see what looks the best way
09:33 AM enleth: Roguish: this sounds contrary to the whole point of having breakers instead of fuses
09:35 AM Roguish: enleth: I took a couple of classes at a local jr. college on the US electrical code. instructor is a local inspector, and is on a couple of the national code committees. that's what he told the class. pretty knowledgable so I'll take his word on it.
09:36 AM enleth: Roguish: shame he didn't elaborate, it would be interesting to know which type of breakers he's seen behaving badly, whether he meant short circuit or overcurrent trip, what was the failure mode afterwards, etc.
09:36 AM enleth: without all this data, it's an anecdote
09:37 AM archivist: earth leakage breaker gets a regular test here, so one time use is plain silly
09:37 AM enleth: it might've been true for a given set of circumstances, but we don't know those now
09:37 AM enleth: Roguish: remember that a typical breaker is actually two completely separate devices operating a shared contact - a solenoid and a thermostat
09:38 AM Roguish: enleth: not that the breakers won't function, just that all they are warranteed for by the mfgr.
09:38 AM enleth: never seen such a disclaimer in a datasheet
09:39 AM archivist: I dont think a standard would pass at that either, except for a very high overload
09:39 AM Roguish: I use a breaker as the main disconnect for my mill. it's too code, just hope it never 'trips'
09:39 AM roycroft: i believe two pole breakers have two solenoids
09:39 AM roycroft: would they also have two thermostats?
09:39 AM roycroft: i've seen 2 pole breakers trip one pole but not the other
09:39 AM archivist: mechanical link here, that is impossible
09:40 AM roycroft: most modern ones here have a pin that links the two poles
09:40 AM enleth: roycroft: if the schematic on it says that it has, then it has; a typical generic two pole breaker should
09:40 AM roycroft: but old ones have a clip, and if the clip is worn or loose, it won't always pull the other pole off
09:40 AM enleth: ah, that's a separate issue
09:41 AM enleth: so if the two poles are phase and neutral of the same circuit, there most likely are two separate thermostats in it, but they might not be perfectly matched
09:41 AM roycroft: the linkage is the actuater levers, not anything internal
09:41 AM roycroft: actuator
09:42 AM enleth: yep, I've seen those
09:42 AM Roguish: the electrical code (US) is long, complicated, convoluted, and confusing. most important is 'install and use according to manufacture's instructions'
09:42 AM roycroft: and every jurisdiction can modify the nec
09:42 AM archivist: IEE wiring regulations here
09:42 AM roycroft: most do
09:43 AM enleth: Roguish: good part of it is written in charcoal from burnt houses, so if no one bothers to overhaul it from time to time, it can get a bit hard to navigate from all the layers of changes
09:43 AM Roguish: yeah. some modifiy. US code and international are getting closer.
09:44 AM roycroft: being long, complicated, convoluted, and confusing makes for job security for them that manage the code
09:44 AM archivist: in the 15th ed we had all exposed metal shall be grounded, so idiots were grounding hat pegs
09:44 AM Roguish: i'm a mechanical, which is why i took the code class. class didn't even try to teach the entire code, just what's in it and where and how to find it.
09:45 AM enleth: roycroft: as for your original question - unless you have some kind of a very special purpose device, I'm pretty sure every unit with a solenoid for short circuit detection would also have a thermostat for overload detection
09:45 AM roycroft: the rule of thumb is: when in doubt, ask the inspector
09:45 AM roycroft: and then be sure to get that same inspector to do the final sign-off
09:45 AM Roguish: roycroft: that's the truth.
09:45 AM enleth: roycroft: I can't even imagine a valid purpose for a two-pole device with a full set on one side and just one of the two on the other
09:46 AM roycroft: i'd assume they would be two independent devices ganged together
09:46 AM Rab: I know breakers can wear out over time, and I suppose the wear mechanism is heat from current flow. By nature, an overcurrent event stresses the breaker to an unpredictable degree and could degrade its characteristics.
09:46 AM roycroft: but assumptions often prove incorrect
09:46 AM Rab: So I can see that the only perfect breaker is one which hasn't been tripped.
09:47 AM roycroft: in order to certify it as "perfect" it would have to be tested, would it not?
09:47 AM Rab: There is also contact wear from tripping, of course.
09:47 AM Rab: roycroft, one would hope.
09:47 AM roycroft: and the testing would trip it
09:47 AM enleth: Rab: if the overcurrent was below the rated amount (6kA for most small devices where I live), it must not degrade it to an "unpredictable" degree, it must still be within the rated amount of cycles, which goes into thousands
09:47 AM roycroft: that would be part of the test, i should hope
09:48 AM roycroft: that being the case, there can be no such thing as a perfect breaker
09:48 AM roycroft: according to your rationale
09:48 AM roycroft: the very act of certifying its perfection renders it imperfect
09:49 AM roycroft: all breakers are imperfect
09:49 AM roycroft: we're doomed!
09:49 AM archivist: they must work to a standard for a number of cycles
09:49 AM roycroft: the duty cycle of a typical circuit breaker is not all that great
09:50 AM roycroft: which is why i'm not a fan of using a breaker as a primary cutoff for equipment
09:50 AM enleth: those things really are just a spring-loaded SPST switch, a solenoid wound with some seriously thick enamel wire, and a bimetal thermostat
09:50 AM enleth: all three of those are simple devices that are easy to make to a given spec
09:50 AM Rab: enleth, the given spec being "as cheaply as possible".
09:51 AM roycroft: better to have a mains cutoff switch (preferably with lockout capability) located near the equipment
09:52 AM Rab: roycroft, agreed, and preferably a contactor on the equipment itself.
09:52 AM roycroft: yes
09:53 AM Rab: It's all kinda academic. Breakers last for many decades, some longer than others. I'm just trying to construct an explanation which addresses Roguish's anecdote.
09:54 AM enleth: still doesn't fly, if it's to be taken at face value - absolutely no one in their right mind will replace a breaker after just *one* trip
09:55 AM enleth: (assuming it was within the spec for surge current)
09:55 AM roycroft: no, that doesn't make sense to me at all
09:55 AM Rab: I was surprised to discover that fuses degrade over time, proportional to current (thermal) stress.
09:56 AM roycroft: if *anything* determine the rated number of trip cycles it was designed to do, track when it's been tripped, and replace when it reaches, say, 80% of the rated number of cycles
09:56 AM roycroft: incandescent light bulbs burn out over time :)
09:56 AM roycroft: although some of the original edison bulbs do not
09:57 AM roycroft: there is one that is installed at a fire station back east that's been continuously lit for over 100 years
09:57 AM enleth: that might be the reason it still works
09:58 AM roycroft: yes
09:58 AM Rab: roycroft, I hear they undervoltage those to keep them from burning out.
09:58 AM roycroft: plus, it was made in the days before planned obsolescence was a business model
09:58 AM enleth: it might burn out the instant they turn it off for any reason and then back on
09:58 AM roycroft: and when electricity was not well enough understood and so feared that anything electrical tended to be way way way overbuilt
09:59 AM enleth: that mindset is still carried over to a lot of safety labels, without being given a single thought
10:00 AM enleth: around here, labels to the effect of "DO NOT TOUCH, ELECTRICAL DEVICE" are common place on junction boxes, access panels for street lamps, etc.
10:00 AM enleth: it might've been effective when taken literally in the 1950s
10:01 AM enleth: when elecricity was still a newfangled thing in a lot of areas and people feared it
10:01 AM enleth: but now people carry electrical devices in their pockets
10:01 AM enleth: the literal meaning of this label makes no sense at all as a deterrent
10:02 AM enleth: but no one bothers to think up a better waring label for electrical devices that really should not be messed with
10:03 AM enleth: I was actually thinking about ordering a couple sheets of a small version of this sticker
10:04 AM enleth: to slap it on absolutely everything that so much as contains a button battery
10:06 AM Rab: All that skull imagery on gaming computers. False hazard threat!
10:07 AM MarcelineVQ: Rab: it's like racing stripes, stripes make you go faster, skulls improve your aim, it is known
10:09 AM roycroft: knob and tube wiring was a perfect example of extreme paranoia about electricity
10:12 AM MarcelineVQ: on the plus side when something stopped working you knew exactly which conductor to check
10:13 AM roycroft: yes, follow your nose to the source of the burned rat smell
10:14 AM roycroft: mice were too small to bridge the gap between the wires
10:16 AM MarcelineVQ: I wonder if there's a place in the world that prefers having rats as domestic pests over mice
10:17 AM roycroft: i prefer neither
10:19 AM Rab: My homebody just sent me a box of goodies for the cost of shipping: https://i.imgur.com/KQdqrAH.jpg
10:20 AM Rab: 3x Vexta nema23 motors, 3x Geckodrive G201, some slides and ballscrews.
10:21 AM Rab: Looks like somebody's hoard from a failed project...there were also parts from a Grizzly mini-mill that I requested he not send.
10:23 AM Rab: Ballscrews a little rusty at the ends. I wonder if there's a way to characterize them for wear without rigging up load, encoders, etc.
10:24 AM roycroft: cut the ends off and use the good parts
10:24 AM Rab: The parport breakout is mystery meat, I don't see mfg info.
10:24 AM archivist: build a machine measure its accuracy
10:52 AM gloops: wow i live for boxes like that
10:57 AM gloops: noticed an ash tree blown down this afternoon, fungal growth round the base, think ill have that in the morning before the locusts descend on it for firewood
10:58 AM archivist: I am leaving the rotten one that fell down in the field next to me
10:59 AM gloops: it can be quite pretty https://img1.etsystatic.com/136/0/8475643/il_fullxfull.984895271_s6c1.jpg
11:06 AM roycroft: we've lost a lot of ash trees here
11:07 AM roycroft: i'm using ash as the edging material on my router table top
11:07 AM gloops: i think ours are marked for death, ash dieback virus here
11:07 AM roycroft: i was going to use padouk, but the laminate i used for the top is burgundy, and i thought that the orange padouk would clash with it
11:07 AM gloops: ash is a good species
11:07 AM roycroft: ash will look good though
11:07 AM roycroft: yes
11:07 AM MarcelineVQ: that's quite lovely
11:12 AM roycroft: ash looks similar to oak
11:12 AM roycroft: but different enough that one would not mistake it for oak
11:13 AM roycroft: i am done with work at noon today, and will get the router stand put together this afternoon
11:13 AM roycroft: it will be nice to see it finally coming together
11:14 AM roycroft: the top and the base are the permanant pieces, but the carcase is built of cheap pine as a prototype
11:15 AM roycroft: i'm doing that becasue clearances of some of the components are very tight, and it's easier to just experiment than to try to calculate them
11:15 AM roycroft: plus, some of the joinery for the final carcase needs to e done on a router table, and my old router table is no more
11:23 AM jthornton: scrambled eggs are done so my lunch minute is over... back to work
11:25 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:34 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:50 AM gloops: evening
12:33 PM Tom_L: gloops how's progress progressing?
12:33 PM Tom_L: hope to get most of the wiring done this weekend
12:33 PM Tom_L: and work on alignment
12:34 PM gloops: ive got it bolted down and levelled up Tom, going to get ballscrew on z tommorrow, then more or less ready to put motors on
12:35 PM gloops: you were right about the grubscrews, i tried both pulleys up with belt on - its no nothing to turn the screw, no resistance at all, so pulleys wont take much holding on
12:37 PM Tom_L: that's what i'm going with until something causes me to change
12:39 PM gloops: well, that is with no cutting or momentum - i think the pulleys will be ok with screws though, the chain drive one i made was totally different, to move the gantry you had to put some force on the drive sprocket - a lot
12:40 PM Tom_L: mine are on Z so i think they'll be ok
12:40 PM Tom_L: the other axis are direct at least until i find out how it performs
12:40 PM gloops: yeah think that will be fine, z isnt lurching about much
12:41 PM Tom_L: i think i'll be ok going direct with these steppers
12:42 PM gloops: i dont really know with steel, some have really fine screw pitch 2mm, and use 120 oz motors without any problem, i think your motors should be ok with 5mm screws
12:58 PM Tom_L: 2mm would have to have pretty fine ballbearings
01:23 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8 from Germany
01:28 PM gloops: i mean 2mm pitch on the screws, someone was converting a small mill with a kit, he had 2mm pitch screws, the kit had 120 oz motors i think, the others who had done the kit said it was fine
01:29 PM `Wolf: 2mm pitch ball screw?
01:35 PM `Wolf: I wonder if I can add reverse to this mill…
01:36 PM gloops: would have been leadscrew, i cant find the post now it was a while back, i was surprised milling steel with 120oz motors but with low gearing like that
01:37 PM `Wolf: I know 420oz motors on lead screws have the torque to break a 3/8” end mill
01:37 PM `Wolf: don’t ask how I know this =D
01:37 PM Roguish: gloops: try a program like this. http://www.orientalmotor.com/motor-sizing/index.html
01:39 PM Roguish: most all motor manufacturers have similar sizing programs. easy to use.
01:40 PM Roguish: takes ya thru all the technical to size a motor. can also use the check what ever you have.....
01:41 PM Roguish: the hard math is getting the inertias correct for good performance.
01:42 PM gloops: my own calculations conclude that i should get rapids between 200-350 ipm, too many unknown variables
01:43 PM Roguish: speed no equal to acceleration or jerk
01:43 PM gloops: well if i can cut at 120ipm in wood ill be happy enough, i think i should have that covered
01:44 PM gloops: i havent really got any strict demands, just as fast as it will go, ill get what i get heh
01:45 PM Roguish: knowing your expectation is essential
01:47 PM gloops: probably max speed of my motors is 600 rpm, 2.5 - 1 gearing, 5mm pitch screws should permit about 7500mm/min
01:47 PM gloops: screw resonance could well restrict that, and factors as you say, acceleration, probably a good bit lower useable speeds
02:17 PM Tom_L: `Wolf, what pitch are your leadscrews?
02:18 PM `Wolf: on the X1 I forget what they are, X2 iirc 5mm balls
02:19 PM `Wolf: 5mm pitch, 12mm I think
02:21 PM Tom_L: what lube do you use on the screw and rails?
02:22 PM `Wolf: right now, super lube
02:22 PM Tom_L: wonder about bike chain lube
02:22 PM Tom_L: nice n sticky
02:22 PM `Wolf: I’m thinking about one shot oil system
02:23 PM `Wolf: love when a plan works out =) https://i.imgur.com/LZJwoLW.jpg
02:24 PM phipli: Yay! Friday!
02:24 PM `Wolf: too bad I can’t fit all of them on the rack lol
02:25 PM phipli: Got a front panel for a prop to make for someone this weekend
02:25 PM phipli: speeds and feeds time tomorrow perhaps
02:25 PM phipli: not too great at plastic
02:25 PM `Wolf: I have a DRO install to finish
02:26 PM `Wolf: and the chip pan for the lathe
02:26 PM `Wolf: and to swap the motor off of it
02:26 PM `Wolf: and a dozen other things lol
02:26 PM phipli: :)
02:26 PM phipli: I also have to fix the back fence
02:26 PM phipli: storm blew it over
02:26 PM `Wolf: love when a plan works out =) https://i.imgur.com/LZJwoLW.jpg << just did this
02:27 PM phipli: and perhaps move the chicken run over to fresh grass :)
02:27 PM phipli: how many sides does your tool post have!
02:27 PM `Wolf: lol
02:28 PM `Wolf: 2, standard aloris axa
02:29 PM phipli: Is the apple remote for jogging the machine?
02:29 PM `Wolf: still have 12 more holders that aren’t up there
02:29 PM `Wolf: I wish… iMac on the other side of the room from the machine, using the remote for music volume
02:30 PM phipli: fusion 360?
02:30 PM phipli: or are you booting windows?
02:30 PM `Wolf: older mac, I haven’t tried F360 on this box yet
02:31 PM `Wolf: mostly use it for irc, web and music
02:31 PM phipli: I switched to linux completely with my last upgrade and a generic PC
02:31 PM phipli: I'd always gone for machine with PCI slots... and they stopped making them
02:32 PM phipli: My IIci would be ashamed of the paint tin Mac Pro
02:32 PM `Wolf: I have 3 macs (OSx) one windows box for solid works, and 3 linux boxes
02:33 PM phipli: I still have my 2008 Mac Pro and a 1987 Mac SE
02:33 PM phipli: I use the SE for CAD...
02:33 PM phipli: (the above is a lie)
02:34 PM `Wolf: early ’11 MBP and a 15” MBP touch bar loaded out for running cad
02:34 PM phipli: hum... dinner is ready
02:34 PM phipli: laters :)
02:34 PM `Wolf: now if UPS would hurry up and deliver my vise I would be happier
02:46 PM Crom_: Fedezx has to deliver my NEMA 17's first!
02:48 PM gloops: they think its level till you put this on it! https://ibb.co/cXUpKG
02:56 PM `Wolf: oh yeah? https://i.imgur.com/fPvOjIE.jpg =P
02:57 PM gloops: nice level Wolf, but mines got more charm
02:57 PM gloops: not a good photo really
02:59 PM `Wolf: that one is only 300mm and marked for .005" per foot (0.42mm per meter)
03:01 PM `Wolf: the old box style machinist levels do have more character to them
03:01 PM gloops: how much is that worth then?
03:01 PM `Wolf: http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/98-12
03:02 PM `Wolf: $80 eBay score
03:02 PM `Wolf: =)
03:02 PM gloops: thats not too bad then, more than i pay for levels though heh - oh $80 thats good
03:03 PM `Wolf: was used for leveling pool tables
03:04 PM gloops: im not sure how accurate mine is, but better than a good builders level, which will have to do
03:04 PM `Wolf: thats all that matters
03:05 PM `Wolf: I need to level my machines at some point soon lol
03:06 PM gloops: you havent set them up yet?
03:06 PM `Wolf: set up, been doing nothing but short work in the lathe
03:07 PM gloops: probably notice a taper if it was badly out of level?
03:07 PM `Wolf: mill being level would just help with using digital angle finders during workholding
03:07 PM `Wolf: just puts twist in the bed of the lathe
03:08 PM gloops: that will make a taper in the cut - more noticeable at longer cuts
03:09 PM `Wolf: still thinking about moving it so I haven’t leveled it out yet
03:13 PM gloops: not so bad for woodwork machines, being absolutely dead level, near enough is ok, although a router gantry out to be, it all runs smooth though will probably find out when it starts cutting if anything is badly out
03:23 PM `Wolf: yeah, pretty much, wood chuck wont be trying to hold to tenths lol
03:24 PM fragalot: wood cucks would do fine holding on to tenths of a meter (we're talking about SI units, yeah?)
03:25 PM Contract_Pilot: Wow a little Dilaudid and I Find the Elusive P055 I have Spindle Control Not Accurate Will Need to Figure out their Frequancy's to time it..
03:25 PM `Wolf: should be couple tenths of a thou, or 5um lol
03:26 PM Contract_Pilot: Playing with high voltage electricity while high love it... but not to high my last 2mg tab
03:27 PM fragalot: Contract_Pilot: https://i.imgur.com/0oM7r4W.png
03:28 PM gloops: well, my screws are allegedly good to .05mm, so travel is fairly accurate, dimensionally i can adjust all the rails as theyre bolted in slots, in theory i could get pretty accurate - i doubt it ever will be though
03:28 PM Contract_Pilot: I have good excuse they cut my bacon and stuffed my guts back in and sowed me up.
03:29 PM fragalot: did you get to keep it?
03:29 PM gloops: you ought to be careful Contract, if you get stuck to a wire or something and nobody around
03:30 PM Contract_Pilot: It is Alive... On Life Support...But you can here the gears tumbling from the soon to be gone gearbox! https://youtu.be/l5vPEScUCME
03:30 PM Contract_Pilot: So P055 was the key...
03:31 PM Contract_Pilot: On the WJ200
03:31 PM Contract_Pilot: Pulse Train Freq. Scale
03:31 PM fragalot: that sound is piercing
03:31 PM Contract_Pilot: So many settings...
03:32 PM Contract_Pilot: Yea, it is...
03:32 PM gloops: something rattling there
03:32 PM Contract_Pilot: The year train in the headstock.
03:32 PM Contract_Pilot: Gear...
03:32 PM gloops: bearing gone
03:32 PM Contract_Pilot: Manual Lathe
03:33 PM fragalot: gloops: or it's just a rattle fit gear set like my lathe is
03:33 PM fragalot: in fact, those gears don't even HAVE bearings
03:33 PM fragalot: >.>
03:33 PM Contract_Pilot: Nope... just all the non enguaged gears...
03:33 PM gloops: mine rattles but not like that
03:33 PM fragalot: nothing a big gob of grease can't fix
03:34 PM Contract_Pilot: Or fill with more hydrolic oil
03:34 PM fragalot: hydraulic oil?
03:34 PM gloops: just hold a piece of pipe to your ear and locate the rattle
03:35 PM gloops: obviously dont poke the end of the pipe in the gears
03:37 PM Contract_Pilot: YeYea my spelling sucks interpet
03:37 PM fragalot: Contract_Pilot: it was more a case of "why on earth would you use hydraulic oil"
03:37 PM fragalot: for gears
03:38 PM Contract_Pilot: The Headstock call out for it.
03:38 PM fragalot: weird
03:38 PM gregcnc_: unless the gears are highly loaded hydraulic is plenty good
03:38 PM Contract_Pilot: 5 Gal Buckets from Tractor Supply ISO XX for got same crap my compressor takes
03:39 PM Contract_Pilot: Double it same ISO as Vactra2
03:39 PM Contract_Pilot: But that's way oil hahaha
03:40 PM `Wolf: yup, i think its ISO 68?
03:40 PM `Wolf: vactra2 has some other additives to add some sticky to it tho
03:41 PM `Wolf: but for gear box it doesn’t matter much
03:45 PM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/20180119_134038-e1516398278935-768x1024.jpg
03:47 PM Contract_Pilot: What Goes in the auto lube.. http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/IMG_5276-1024x768.jpg
03:48 PM Contract_Pilot: Only thing i do not like about the android is the date-timestamp photo name
03:48 PM Contract_Pilot: Wish i could change it to IMG_XXXXX
03:48 PM `Wolf: nice, have to see how good that auto oiler works
03:48 PM Contract_Pilot: Awsome
03:49 PM `Wolf: tho I think I’m going to do manual one shots on both of my manual machines
03:49 PM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/ECD1C138-C592-490C-8B24-DAFD8DA1F40C-1024x768.jpeg
03:50 PM `Wolf: nice
03:50 PM Contract_Pilot: So need to gt a few moments of Claraity still need to configure to items on the VFD and figure this freq control outb.
03:51 PM Deejay: gn8
03:53 PM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/3935067C-949C-4DA5-A827-B08741122473-1024x768.jpeg
03:55 PM Contract_Pilot: Save 150.00 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Auto-Lubrication-Pump-for-Mill-Grinder-CEN02-220V-Bijur/171041326340?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
03:55 PM Contract_Pilot: ohhh wow no free shipping now
03:56 PM `Wolf: lol I was just looking for that
03:56 PM Contract_Pilot: I think their website is 125.00 with gree shipping
03:56 PM Contract_Pilot: I am on Narcotics and Etho..
03:58 PM `Wolf: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2L-2-Liters-automatic-lubricating-oil-pump-cnc-electromagnetic-lubricator-HTS02/112438677191 wonder how bad this is
03:58 PM `Wolf: lol even cheaper same one is $55
03:59 PM `Wolf: https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-1-8L-Dual-Digital-Display-Automatic-Electric-Lubrication-Pump-Oiler-Pump-110V/162804658964
03:59 PM CaptHindsight: I use an egg timer and a can of oil
04:00 PM `Wolf: I was planning on going with the $26 manual one shot pumps
04:01 PM Contract_Pilot: I got the original tormach pump ...
04:02 PM Contract_Pilot: Be sure you look at the right specs on pressure
04:02 PM Contract_Pilot: and prime
04:05 PM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/20180119_140209-1024x768.jpg
04:05 PM `Wolf: oil can for now =)
04:06 PM Contract_Pilot: Android is pissing me off have to scroll all the way to the end t get new photos... WTF
04:06 PM `Wolf: I’ll test the diy one shot on the X2
04:06 PM `Wolf: then do the Jet
04:06 PM `Wolf: or the lathe, it shouldn’t be too hard to do either
04:07 PM `Wolf: Jet mill will be a total bitch
04:07 PM gregcnc_: does the tormach kit include metering valves?
04:08 PM Contract_Pilot: Yep.
04:08 PM Contract_Pilot: The metering valves are on the machine manifolds
04:09 PM Contract_Pilot: So need to figure out their frequancy and 2 connections to the VFD
04:10 PM Contract_Pilot: Prob the 2 not hooked up are the key
04:10 PM Contract_Pilot: or just say F-it and get an emmerson and config itlike they do.
04:15 PM Contract_Pilot: Wow E-bay seller on them touch screens gave full refund hahahaha
04:16 PM Contract_Pilot: Maybe a teardown and backlight replacement or recycle them...
04:16 PM Contract_Pilot: http://www.stevenrhine.com/?p=2741
04:19 PM Contract_Pilot: I guess the empty boxes are where the cables were supposed to be hahahaha
04:19 PM Contract_Pilot: Nope... just a power cord..
04:19 PM Contract_Pilot: out of the box hahaha
04:20 PM Contract_Pilot: Planar Confirmed CCFL's are Spent!!! Replace should eb ok...
04:20 PM Contract_Pilot: Refirbished My ASS
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: 2 for $2500 https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tls/d/brother-tc211-drilling-and/6439602910.html
04:22 PM gregcnc_: those started at 4k$ maybe a year ago?
04:22 PM Contract_Pilot: Lets go 1/2's CH
04:22 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc_: that long
04:23 PM gregcnc_: a long time all the stuff they have listed
04:23 PM Contract_Pilot: Depends if they reqire a bonded rigger to move it..
04:23 PM CaptHindsight: haven't been keeping up, that cnc lathe with the dead owner is also still up
04:24 PM gregcnc_: yeah I saw earlier this week
04:24 PM CaptHindsight: "that owner isn't sleeping, he's bloody demised"
04:24 PM Contract_Pilot: Narcotics and Alcohol yep yep
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: that listing is only missing "possibly haunted" to really keep buyers away
04:25 PM gregcnc_: i don't know if they think that will help sell it
04:26 PM gregcnc_: i think they aren't common and without power nobody wants to risk major repairs
04:26 PM MarcelineVQ: that one with the suicided partner?
04:27 PM MarcelineVQ: what a thing to put in a listing
04:30 PM Contract_Pilot: F that 1,250 and if i d not have to hire a 10K rigger to gte it out NP
04:30 PM Contract_Pilot: I will rent a drop deck and load them both
04:31 PM gregcnc_: https://rohorn.smugmug.com/Other/Brother-TC-211/n-B63XPH/
04:31 PM Contract_Pilot: Drop on to CHS and yank the other home
04:36 PM Contract_Pilot: I think i am on my own on this freq pulse train suff...
04:43 PM Contract_Pilot: Wish i was clear headed...
04:43 PM Contract_Pilot: Butmaybe Shot Show Next Week will do the trick..
04:53 PM Contract_Pilot: ok, i go pass out now...
04:54 PM phipli: https://www.cnx-software.com/2018/01/19/asrock-unveils-j4105-itx-j4105b-itx-gemini-lake-mini-itx-motherboards/
04:54 PM phipli: one of them has a parallel port
04:56 PM fragalot: realtek ethernet though
05:00 PM phipli: that much of an issue?
05:00 PM fragalot: it is if you want to run a mesa board, or so I was told
05:01 PM phipli: I was thinking along the lines that parallel is starting to get rare
05:01 PM phipli: there are plenty of boards out there with ethernet :)
05:01 PM fragalot: they'll continue to make that for a while - industry still uses that quite a bit
05:01 PM phipli: yeah
05:01 PM phipli: same as RS232
05:01 PM fragalot: heavy industry typically lags behind a good 15 years
05:01 PM phipli: just saying to the missus - it is a shame that people are removing the /simple/ ports
05:02 PM phipli: ports that you can use with passives and a shift reg
05:02 PM CaptHindsight: we have found a few $10 PCIe LPT cards
05:02 PM phipli: or just by wiring in
05:02 PM fragalot: phipli: they are removing ALL ports, one by one
05:02 PM phipli: USB-C for everything :)
05:02 PM fragalot: phipli: colleague of mine got a new laptop.. all it's got is a singular USB-C
05:02 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, getting away from PC's as well
05:03 PM fragalot: no charge connector, no USB 2.0 compatible, no HDMI, no DP,.. just that singular USB-C
05:03 PM phipli: I have one usb-c port on my computer
05:03 PM phipli: don't have anything to plug into it though
05:03 PM fragalot: he has a pile of adapters
05:03 PM fragalot: lol
05:04 PM phipli: I have a RS232 backplate thingy I've not put in it yet eather
05:04 PM phipli: *ether
05:04 PM phipli: missing parallel though
05:04 PM phipli: would need a card
05:05 PM phipli: but I think if I need one, I'll just drag an old PC out of the cupboard
05:06 PM CaptHindsight: the main problem I come across with older systems is that the BIOS settings were trimmed down and killing power management was removed from the options
05:06 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: hack the bios :P
05:07 PM fragalot: it's not /that/ hard to do.. did it to get my lenovo to accept a new wifi card
05:07 PM CaptHindsight: used to be simple with the BIOS editing tools
05:07 PM fragalot: granted, I did have to get creative to flash the write protected chip
05:07 PM phipli: replace all electronic components with a mechanical cam sequencer?
05:07 PM fragalot: >.>µ
05:08 PM Contract_Pilot: https://www.ebay.com/itm/162625954865
05:08 PM JT-Shop: I need to find a 9v battery lead... one of my meters the battery leaked and melted the connector lol
05:08 PM Contract_Pilot: mail call... another fake... http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/20180119_145554-1024x768.jpg
05:09 PM phipli: https://media.rs-online.com/t_large/CE339998-01.jpg
05:09 PM Contract_Pilot: piss poor one also hahaha
05:09 PM phipli: JT-Shop, https://www.banggood.com/50Pcs-9V-Battery-Connector-Snap-Clip-T-Style-Cable-Wire-Lead-Holder-Adapter-145mm-p-1122480.html?rmmds=search
05:10 PM JT-Shop: lol 50 pcs
05:10 PM Contract_Pilot: I wil still put it on the mill snd check and see if it is accurate..
05:10 PM Tom_L: i used to have some of those around here
05:10 PM phipli: I'm not saying they're great, but at 7p each...
05:10 PM Tom_L: if i knew where they were, i'd toss one in the mail to you
05:11 PM Contract_Pilot: you must really need 9V connectors
05:11 PM phipli: yeah, I have some too, but it would cost me more than that to post one :)
05:11 PM Contract_Pilot: I have a bunch of them floating arround also
05:11 PM JT-Shop: I'm sure I have some broken something to steal one to fix the fluke meter
05:12 PM Contract_Pilot: I can just fel the spring in this switch nope nada
05:12 PM Tom_L: the fluke aren't soldered to the board?
05:12 PM Tom_L: mine are iirc
05:13 PM JT-Shop: it's an amp meter, may not be fluke... it's downstairs
05:13 PM JT-Shop: nope it's an amprobe
05:14 PM Contract_Pilot: JT i have a fluke 187 been a work horse for years
05:14 PM Contract_Pilot: Lent my scope to a friend i gurss his ex sold it or he did... f-me
05:15 PM Tom_L: learn anything there?
05:15 PM Tom_L: i stopped lending tools years ago
05:16 PM CaptHindsight: sold your scope?!
05:17 PM Contract_Pilot: Yep...
05:17 PM Contract_Pilot: HP
05:17 PM CaptHindsight: you can use my tools as long as they stay within 20ft of the box they are stored in
05:17 PM Contract_Pilot: Forgot i lent it out years ago...
05:17 PM Contract_Pilot: Yep...
05:18 PM Contract_Pilot: I have haror freight roll cabs full of snap-on
05:18 PM CaptHindsight: I need more shelves
05:19 PM Tom_L: my snapon roll around has a sticker on it that says don't ask to borrow them
05:19 PM phipli: I need more sheds
05:19 PM `Wolf: beast https://i.imgur.com/pNAvy1M.jpg
05:20 PM Tom_L: `Wolf, if it doesn't fit, send it to me
05:21 PM phipli: `Wolf, your mill is too small, send it to me
05:21 PM `Wolf: lol
05:22 PM XXCoder: your mill is too small. send mill to me
05:22 PM Tom_L: my friend has a 10" kurt but i'm not real sure why
05:22 PM XXCoder: dang
05:22 PM Tom_L: he got it used
05:22 PM XXCoder: we dont have many 10"s at work
05:22 PM Tom_L: nearly takes a forklift to put it on the table
05:22 PM XXCoder: tons of 6 though and few 4s
05:25 PM CaptHindsight: Wolf__: what mill is that in the pic?
05:25 PM `Wolf: Jet 840
05:27 PM `Wolf: 7”x30” table
05:29 PM CaptHindsight: can you still buy parts for it?
05:30 PM `Wolf: no idea
05:37 PM Contract_Pilot: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gHsn02qhBC_UQIjijJVGDYGTdh7U_UEH
05:39 PM Contract_Pilot: I have been a toss up between the Kurt and ane Glacern..
05:39 PM Contract_Pilot: How do you like the Glacern
05:40 PM `Wolf: seems nice, only had it for 20mins now lol
05:42 PM phipli: JT-Shop?
05:42 PM phipli: Something to watch out for
05:42 PM phipli: a lot of sellers are flogging DS3231 RTCs with CR2032 batteries
05:43 PM phipli: which is iffy, because the circuit they use (on the ones I'm talking about) includes a charging circuit
05:43 PM phipli: and the CR2032 doesn't like being charged...
05:44 PM phipli: if your board looks like this : http://osoyoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/ds3231-rtc-module-500x416.jpg
05:45 PM phipli: you might want to swap the battery for something like a LIR2032 if it isn't one already. Fast way to check is the voltage. The non-rechargeable ones seem to be 3v, vs the rechargeable ones seem to be 3.6v
06:36 PM roycroft: my router lift cutout shrunk :(
06:37 PM roycroft: now it's going to take some work to get it to fit properly
06:38 PM roycroft: damn that paint is not infinitely thin!
06:38 PM roycroft: i thought i had accomodated for paint
06:39 PM roycroft: when i made the template i added a layer of masking tape to the boards to shim it out a bit, giving me some wiggle room for a coat of paint
06:39 PM roycroft: but apparently the paint was thicker than masking tape
06:41 PM Contract_Pilot: ohhh poor me bootd from agroup on FB for being inquizitive..
06:41 PM Contract_Pilot: F-pro Cut CNC
06:41 PM Contract_Pilot: and their shill posters...
06:43 PM Contract_Pilot: Was not badgering was inquisitive..
06:43 PM Contract_Pilot: Sounded like was not rel but a advert for Procut..
06:43 PM Contract_Pilot: $1,449.00 Mill Machine http://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-25mv
06:43 PM Contract_Pilot: $649.00 CNC Kit https://procutcnc.com/product/pm25mv-cnc-mill-conversion-kit/
06:43 PM Contract_Pilot: $600.00 Stepper Motors and Drive & AC Spindle And VFD Maybe
06:43 PM Contract_Pilot: $300.00 Misc.. 3K Maybe 3.2K ya got full System..
06:44 PM Contract_Pilot: https://procutcnc.com/product/pm25mv-cnc-mill/
06:45 PM Contract_Pilot: And the PM25mv COMES WITH BRUSHLESS already
07:02 PM jdh: nicely improved g0704-alike. belt drive also.
07:15 PM Roguish_ is now known as Roguish
07:16 PM `Wolf: ugh, how to drive yourself nuts, tram vice in with 0.0001” DTI…
07:16 PM XXCoder: whoooo
07:16 PM XXCoder: heh
07:17 PM XXCoder: .0001" dti is expensive
07:18 PM `Wolf: used machine tool group is nice on facebook https://i.imgur.com/Sbd6BWE.jpg
07:18 PM XXCoder: that is virtually same stuff I ave at work.
07:19 PM XXCoder: you sure its not stolen from my tool cart? heh
07:21 PM `Wolf: bought the full set from a guy that was working at sandvik and changed trades
07:24 PM `Wolf: picked up a 2-3” mic off the group last week for $180
07:24 PM XXCoder: I saw set of 0-1 so on to 5-6" mics for just $120 but reviews said it was shit
07:26 PM `Wolf: buy once, cry once https://i.imgur.com/T4oSlLp.jpg
07:26 PM XXCoder: whats wrong with that one
07:27 PM `Wolf: thats the 2-3 that was $180
07:27 PM `Wolf: nothing wrong with it, never used lol
07:27 PM XXCoder: it was adversed as 2-3 but mic says 1-2
07:27 PM `Wolf: err derp 1-2”
07:28 PM `Wolf: he was selling a 2-3 also
07:28 PM XXCoder: lol ok i was really wondering if you was ripped off
07:28 PM `Wolf: nope, just me being braindead lol
07:30 PM XXCoder: :)
07:30 PM `Wolf: this vise needs a speed handle
07:30 PM `Wolf: badly lol
07:50 PM roycroft: make one
07:51 PM dioz: so how do you guys keep sane?
07:51 PM dioz: i hear a lot of guys drink
07:51 PM dioz: i don't think the drink helps much
07:52 PM dioz: specially in the famillial siteeations
07:53 PM `Wolf: I might make one roycroft
07:54 PM phipli: dioz : seems like most people here keep chickens to stay sane
07:54 PM jdh: never understimate the power of fowl
07:56 PM dioz: chickens are a terrible slaughter
07:56 PM dioz: can't have laughter without though
07:56 PM dioz: or so i've been told
07:56 PM phipli: Right. Finished converting an eleven frame animation into an array of bytes, each bit representing a pixel...
07:57 PM phipli: probably should head to bed as it is 2am
07:57 PM Tom_L: but it is the weekend...
07:57 PM phipli: hence 2am...
07:57 PM phipli: I got it working (playing an animation on an LCD attached to an AVR)
07:57 PM Tom_L: good point, i may not last that long
07:57 PM phipli: don't really want start anything else
07:58 PM phipli: :)
07:58 PM phipli: night folks
07:58 PM phipli: suthee tomorrow
08:04 PM `Wolf: wonder how much fun it would be to try to make 5/8 t-nuts in to 9/16
08:05 PM Tom_shop: it is correct to use NC on limit switches right?
08:05 PM `Wolf: if you are chaining them
08:06 PM Tom_shop: and if you're not?
08:06 PM `Wolf: any way you want I think
08:06 PM dioz: angle grinder?
08:06 PM Tom_shop: i think the idea is if a wire breaks it will act as a fault too
08:06 PM MarcelineVQ: NC is nice because if your wires break from strain they trigger
08:06 PM Tom_shop: ^^
08:06 PM dioz: i wonder how hard that would be
08:06 PM dioz: dquare bolts are easy
08:07 PM dioz: square
08:07 PM dioz: idl about a hex though
08:07 PM dioz: idk
08:08 PM `Wolf: I dont think they are hardened
08:09 PM `Wolf: I hate ordering from mcmaster, always end up realizing that I forgot something I need a hour after I order
08:10 PM Tom_shop: if they're like digikey, just call them
08:11 PM MarcelineVQ: mcmaster email support is very prompt
08:11 PM dioz: you need unlimited cash flow buddy
08:11 PM MarcelineVQ: you could easily add to an order that way
08:11 PM dioz: then it doesn't matter what you order
08:11 PM dioz: just fucking order it
08:12 PM dioz: dude told me i couldn't get a 5 x 10 3 axis cnc running on 120v
08:12 PM dioz: i was like "k"
08:12 PM dioz: ;]
08:12 PM MarcelineVQ: why does it matter what the voltage was
08:15 PM dioz: i figure he thinks i'd need 2 phaze
08:15 PM dioz: i think he thinks there's more to it than what it is
08:15 PM nallar is now known as Ross
08:24 PM dioz: welding galv iron
08:24 PM jdh: uh oh
08:25 PM dioz: those fumes are okay to directly huff 'eh?
08:25 PM dioz: whatfumes aren't
08:25 PM jdh: sure
10:56 PM Robi is now known as Crom
11:15 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Wiring/Final_Wiring3.jpg
11:59 PM Crom: Tom: NICE!
11:59 PM Crom: I should do something likr that for my X2 head