#linuxcnc Logs

Jan 16 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:22 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:34 AM IchGucksLive: hi
02:02 AM Deejay: moin
03:40 AM gloops: few hours spare today, see if i can make the breakthrough
03:40 AM gloops: adjustability is necessary with welded machines, but it is a pain to set up
03:40 AM * `Wolf is making chips
03:41 AM archivist: I saw a machine build in progress last night
03:42 AM `Wolf: right now I’m debaiting if I should pull the crossslide off the lathe and drill and tap it on the mill vs doing it all with a hand drill
03:43 AM gloops: what kind of machine archivist?
03:43 AM gloops: better drilling in a fixed spindle than hand for tapping
03:44 AM archivist: he is making a router
03:44 AM `Wolf: pain in the ass, but I’m thinking outcome would be better drilling on the mill, all the tapped holes might actually line up with the bracket then
03:46 AM archivist: having large enough travels to drill in line :)
03:46 AM gloops: big/small iron/alu etc archivist?
03:47 AM archivist: his gantry is about 3 ft,
03:47 AM archivist: al
03:47 AM archivist: with steel runners/V wheels
03:47 AM `Wolf: yeah, I have 513mm travel on the X on this mill
03:48 AM archivist: one thing that bugs me all the time is short travels
03:48 AM `Wolf: y axis is another story…
03:49 AM `Wolf: new vise gets here friday, then I’ll pull this other vise apart and see if I can get some of the lift out of it
03:50 AM `Wolf: and start planning out a mounting plate for it to get it the same height off the bed as the new one =)
03:53 AM gloops: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EU-Stock-New-36V-350W-9-7A-DC-Switching-Power-Supply-For-CNC-Milling-3D-Printer/273014612322?
03:53 AM gloops: on that psu, the output is marked 12v on the terminals, does that mean each terminal gives 12v - for a total of 36v?
03:54 AM SpeedEvil: No
03:54 AM SpeedEvil: Two sets of three terminals
03:54 AM `Wolf: generic photo
03:54 AM SpeedEvil: The three terminals are in parallel
03:54 AM `Wolf: pic is a 12v psu
03:55 AM SpeedEvil: Ah
03:55 AM SpeedEvil: yes, that too
03:56 AM archivist: datasheet image does does not have that voltage!, stock images
03:56 AM `Wolf: love how the spec sheet in the ad doesn’t even have a 36V on it lol
03:56 AM SpeedEvil: Though ...^
04:01 AM gloops: its advertised as a 36v
04:02 AM gloops: Speedevil by each terminal i meant each set
04:03 AM SpeedEvil: 0V and 36V each have three terminals connected to them in parallel likely.
04:03 AM SpeedEvil: You cannot use it as a 12V supply, they are completely electrically in parallel and no seperate 3*12V PSU exists in there
04:04 AM archivist: at those prices you only get one supply
04:04 AM gloops: that is the wrong photo anyway its an s-350-12 should be s-350-36
04:04 AM gloops: thats ok, i want a 36v supply, just caught my eye the pic showed 12v
04:06 AM SpeedEvil: Consider if you trust someone that can't put the right picture on, and fails to document the supply in the data they do post is very competent to sell power supplies.
04:06 AM SpeedEvil: ^that someone
04:06 AM gloops: all the german stock ones are the same photo
04:07 AM gloops: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EU-Stock-350W-24V-AC-to-DC-Switching-Power-Supply-14-5A-CNC-Router-3D-Printer/302435781399?
04:07 AM gloops: 24v
04:08 AM `Wolf: go as high as the steppers/drivers will take IMO
04:09 AM gloops: have tried a 48v - it gives out 54v
04:09 AM `Wolf: you might need a 2nd psu for control stuff tho, I used a 12v/5v dual PSU on my cnc build to run everything else except the steppers
04:09 AM gloops: drivers max 50v
04:09 AM `Wolf: should be a adjustment pot on the psu
04:10 AM `Wolf: if you are using one like linked
04:13 AM gloops: yes it was 48-60, both the ones ive got the actual volts are higher than the specs
04:15 AM gloops: thats ordered anyway, it is in the hands of god
04:33 AM `Wolf: I don’t think he has much to do with electronics
04:46 AM jthornton: morning
04:47 AM XXCoder: yo
04:48 AM jthornton: 11°F
04:49 AM Loetmichel: gloops: those adjustment pots usually go a lot further than the range printed on them.
04:50 AM XXCoder: 45f and started having rain that wont stop for 5 days
04:50 AM Loetmichel: so if you have an "48 to 60V" meanwell-like open fram PSU it should be adjustable from about 42V to 65V or something in that ballpark.
04:50 AM Loetmichel: if its not then there is something fishy.
04:50 AM XXCoder: in least its not 40 days and nights lol
04:56 AM jthornton: I wonder how long it takes an egg to freeze at 11°F?
05:01 AM XXCoder: good question lol
05:01 AM XXCoder: science time!
05:02 AM * XXCoder grabs lab suit, then realizes he don't live at cold enough area
05:03 AM XXCoder: jthornton: check this out https://static.interestingengineering.com/images/JANUARY/sizes/mercedes_resin_resize_md.jpg
05:04 AM Loetmichel: freezing point for the average chicken egg is about -2.8°C
05:04 AM Loetmichel: so yes.
05:04 AM XXCoder: that vehicle may well last thousand years
05:04 AM XXCoder: there is likely to be some internal rotting but otherwise...
05:06 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: careful: resin like that is prone to decomposition by UF light.
05:06 AM Loetmichel: U
05:06 AM jthornton: it's not the freezing point I'm worried about but what is the rate of cooling for a 45g egg from 107°F to say 40°F
05:06 AM Loetmichel: UV
05:07 AM XXCoder: loet yeah guessed that. really all we need to do is bury it away from light
05:07 AM enleth: wonder if they put moisture absorbents inside and coated the whole thing in mold release
05:07 AM Loetmichel: jthornton: one night at -11°c should be more than sufficient.
05:07 AM XXCoder: enleth: or completely filled inside also]
05:07 AM jthornton: they don't lay at night
05:08 AM enleth: well, with mold release you actually could get it out
05:08 AM Loetmichel: enleth: unless the resin seeped into all those crevices and inside the engine/passenger compartement
05:09 AM Loetmichel: jthornton: ah, you mean over day between them laying them and you picking them up in the evening?
05:09 AM Loetmichel: arent they putting them into nests and sit on them?
05:09 AM Loetmichel: the hens i mean
05:09 AM jthornton: yea, I pick them up all day just wondering should I check each hour or more often
05:10 AM jthornton: no, they lay in a roll out nest box
05:10 AM Loetmichel: i see
05:10 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/nestbox/RONB-20.jpg
05:11 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/nestbox/RONB-21.jpg
05:11 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/nestbox/RONB-22.jpg
05:12 AM jthornton: they have been up for 1/2 hour now
05:14 AM enleth: good thing the hens probably aren't smart enough to constantly wonder "where the heck did the egg I just laid go?"
05:15 AM Loetmichel: you know what they say in germany? "you have to have one neuron more than a hen so you know not to shit on the backyard pavement"
05:15 AM Loetmichel: :-)
05:15 AM Loetmichel: + at least
05:16 AM jthornton: enleth: sometimes they look for them behind the dividing wall
05:19 AM jthornton: looks like it takes about 3 hours to freeze or so
05:19 AM jthornton: now to figure out how to execute a command at boot up on the rpi
05:22 AM enleth: /etc/init.d/rc.local probably
05:22 AM jthornton: systemd is the new way
05:24 AM enleth: ah, right
05:25 AM enleth: no idea then, avoiding this thing like the plague it is
05:32 AM nallar is now known as Ross
05:33 AM gloops: all the brooding instincts have been selected out with top laying breeds, you might get the odd one revert
05:33 AM gloops: silkies are often used to sit eggs, theyre still broody, quite a few old breeds are
05:34 AM jthornton: mine are heritage breed Rhode Island Reds
05:34 AM Tom_L: 5F
05:35 AM gloops: it was the likes of rhode island reds that knocked ducks off the top spot for laying
05:36 AM gloops: everybody used to eat duck eggs, ducks arent suited to cage life though, and top ducks lay slightly less than top chicken breeds
05:38 AM jthornton: this looks promising https://elinux.org/RPi-Cam-Web-Interface
05:41 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Wiring/X_Limits_wiring.jpg
05:41 AM gloops: oh to be wiring
05:41 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Wiring/X_Axis_Dragchain.jpg
05:42 AM XXCoder: getting there!
05:42 AM XXCoder: also, rails on moving part?
05:42 AM gloops: youll be firing up before me Tom
05:42 AM XXCoder: curious if you did that way becvause its stronger or something
05:42 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Wiring/Y_Dragchain_Bottom.jpg
05:43 AM Tom_L: Y dragchain
05:43 AM jthornton: Tom_L: nice
05:43 AM Tom_L: slow but sure
05:45 AM gloops: ive got some tiny alignment issues, i made it adjustable so no major problem, but getting every set bang on is proving tedious
05:46 AM gloops: move one thing - something else is out
05:48 AM jthornton: that sucks
05:48 AM jthornton: finally a camera software that just works
05:48 AM jthornton: I'll start with a fresh install of rpi tomorrow
05:49 AM gloops: just got to be patient and get it right, its not bad as it is but im not doing anything else till im happy, then should be very quick
05:49 AM jthornton: yea if one of mine get broody she can sit on ceramic eggs lol
05:55 AM XXCoder: how long does it brood on fake egg?
05:55 AM jthornton: dunno, never tried it
05:56 AM jthornton: fertilized chicken eggs usually take exactly 21 days to hatch
05:59 AM XXCoder: I guess chicken would give up after 21 days
06:00 AM SpeedEvil: They're not that smart
06:10 AM jthornton: what's the website with 3d printed models?
06:10 AM jthornton: thingiberse
06:12 AM XXCoder: yeah thingverse
06:12 AM XXCoder: there is others but that one is common
06:12 AM XXCoder: thingiverse
06:16 AM jthornton: hmm I think I'll use a bell box if the rpi fits inside it
06:22 AM enleth: there seems to be a lot of info on machining cast parts and weldments as it's done a lot nowadays - but what about machining forged parts? any interesting problems there, like hard spots when machining welds?
06:44 AM jthornton: hmm I wonder if I have some 2mm screws laying around from model helis
06:53 AM SpeedEvil: enleth: forged what?
06:54 AM XXCoder: forged blocks for example
06:54 AM XXCoder: enleth: ran forged blocks before its no fun lol its not consient as usual blocks
06:56 AM enleth: SpeedEvil: forged steel, like small machine/tool parts that need flats and pockets milled to fit something else properly
06:57 AM SpeedEvil: ah
06:58 AM enleth: so the milling ops are likely to be right where the material was stretched/compacted while forging, like turning a forged hole (no idea what's the proper name for hammering a wedge through a red hot part to make a hole) into a precisely sized milled pocket
06:58 AM enleth: exactly like you'd do with a casting that has a hole that needs to be milled to size
06:58 AM XXCoder: yeah it sometimes changes as you mill it also
06:58 AM XXCoder: releasing stresses and such
06:58 AM XXCoder: even if making part from entire block
06:59 AM enleth: so I'd expect it to be like working a casting, but worse
07:00 AM enleth: but I've never done it and quick googling suggests there isn't much in the way of modern publicly available information on that
07:00 AM archivist: might find some old books on the subject
07:01 AM enleth: some people publish videos of castings being machined on YT, but so far I've never seen a contemporary video of a modern machine tool cutting into a forged part
07:01 AM archivist: http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=forging
07:02 AM SpeedEvil: enleth: As a general point, the stresses are very, very anisotropic
07:02 AM SpeedEvil: enleth: and the surfaces might be quite hard, depending on stuff.
07:02 AM SpeedEvil: Meaning, cut something and it may curl badly.
07:02 AM archivist: may need a rouging stage
07:03 AM SpeedEvil: cold rolling is basically forging.
07:03 AM XXCoder: that just makes it extra fun
07:03 AM XXCoder: holes could be oval or egg shaped
07:03 AM SpeedEvil: and all the issues of that arise - springing when cutting, ...
07:03 AM SpeedEvil: Perhaps not as bad as machining prince rupert drops.
07:03 AM enleth: but it surely is being done, some things must be forged for the extra strength and modern precision designs call for milled mating surfaces
07:03 AM XXCoder: I had to check all features each part because it varies so much
07:03 AM SpeedEvil: enleth: sure.
07:04 AM SpeedEvil: enleth: it can be done, you may need to work out a precise cutting plan that works for your particular forging
07:04 AM SpeedEvil: you probably can't treat it like a homogenous block of metal.
07:05 AM XXCoder: thats very much a big noper
07:05 AM enleth: I imagine that even the exact sequence of forging ops is important, as it's not abut the final shape of the part, but also about what material was moved where and how
07:05 AM SpeedEvil: yes
07:05 AM SpeedEvil: There are 'proper' murderously expensive tools to calculate this.
07:05 AM SpeedEvil: that is - residual stress and properties after forging
07:07 AM archivist: with proper forging you get much better grain direction for strength
07:07 AM XXCoder: almost all of parts in shop is from extruded block or cast parts
07:07 AM SpeedEvil: In some cases, molding can approach forging with modern alloys and more complex molds, if you can trade off size for stiffness
07:08 AM XXCoder: and money saving if its expensive metal
07:08 AM SpeedEvil: Forging is ridiculously expensive as a way to machine a part in general.
07:08 AM SpeedEvil: Until you get up to very large parts, when it may be lots cheaper.
07:09 AM archivist: for low volume, very cheap for high volume like bolts
07:09 AM SpeedEvil: Forming a crankshaft by milling six foot diameter bar, for example may be problematic.
07:10 AM XXCoder: speed saw video of big machine doing exactly that.
07:10 AM XXCoder: amazing
07:10 AM XXCoder: among many tools it used 2 meter drills
07:10 AM XXCoder: angled in
07:10 AM SpeedEvil: Rather than bending/forging a one foot diameter bar, I mean.
07:11 AM XXCoder: what ya think of additive=-subtractive machine
07:11 AM XXCoder: it welds up and mills em
07:11 AM SpeedEvil: neat.
07:12 AM SpeedEvil: Imagine if it could include bar and ... stock
07:12 AM SpeedEvil: for reducing time.
07:12 AM XXCoder: yeah
07:13 AM XXCoder: its still very early stage
07:13 AM XXCoder: probably wont be common for another 10 to 30 years
07:14 AM XXCoder: well night
07:28 AM SpeedEvil: night
07:29 AM archivist: gloops, print and frame http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/catalogues/CT169_Guest_and_Chrimes/page_0003.jpg
07:49 AM JT-Shop: hmm McMaster Carr started giving me 2%10 terms :)
08:03 AM gloops: interesting to see some of the stuff that went on in that building archivist
08:03 AM gloops: you see old photos of soot and grime and blokes with flat caps and get the impression it must have been like big hammer stuff, they did some marvellous things
08:07 AM archivist: I thought the title amusing and suitable for a framed image
08:07 AM archivist: and make a few wince
08:07 AM gloops: yeah could be taken the wrong way heh
08:11 AM gloops: but wothout stuff like that, no sanitation, no plumbing, no real civilisation
08:12 AM archivist: romans had sanitation, of a sorts
08:14 AM SpeedEvil: you don't need plumbing for sanitation.
08:14 AM SpeedEvil: But your labour costs skyrocket
08:14 AM gloops: they did, so did the elizabethans, but not really adequate for a city like london, if you want to eliminate typhus and the like
08:15 AM MarcelineVQ: pshh, when you build on a river if you jump dump it on the road the rain'll take it away ;>
08:15 AM MarcelineVQ: *just dump
08:15 AM gloops: and when the sun comes out the puddles become factories for deadly bacteria
08:17 AM archivist: parked my arse here https://www.dreamstime.com/royalty-free-stock-photo-roman-latrine-leptis-magna-white-marble-seating-communal-ancient-north-african-site-image36612195
08:17 AM archivist: its the polishing stick they used to spread it about that amuses me
08:19 AM gloops: the victorians excelled at bog making
08:24 AM gloops: doesnt just happen, for a modern sewage system, you need the vision, the political will, the money, the civil servants, the civil engineers, the mechanical engineers etc, a whole list of other things all have to be in place, the ability to design and record and rationalise
08:24 AM archivist: or a large enough stink to make things happen
08:25 AM gloops: yes, a stink in the houses of parliament from the thames helped bring things to a head
08:27 AM MarcelineVQ: that tends to be the way to get things done in this world, park the annoyance next to the powerful
08:28 AM MarcelineVQ: we should apply this method in a useful way, any ideas?
08:28 AM gloops: the debate had been ongoing but during a certain period the stink choked them out in parliament, i think it got moving pretty soon after that
08:29 AM gloops: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Stink
08:32 AM SpeedEvil: gloops: you don't need a modern sewerage system to collect faesces and urine.
08:32 AM SpeedEvil: You can do it with pots and laws and carts.
08:33 AM SpeedEvil: Doing that alone would provide nearly all of the health benefits.
08:34 AM gloops: they used to save urine for tanning
08:34 AM SpeedEvil: yeah - but not all of it.
08:34 AM gloops: the poor used to sell it - for very little, thats where a lot of sayings come from - piss poor
08:35 AM gloops: taking the piss - stealing someones urine
08:36 AM gloops: you can do it that way SpeedEvil, i suppose the main point is understanding that not removing it causes health problems
08:36 AM SpeedEvil: indeed
08:36 AM gloops: a rational efficient sewage system is a great benefit to civilisation though
08:37 AM SpeedEvil: that doesn't mean a 'western' water based one though.
08:37 AM gloops: Mao banned the practice of using human manure - which was universal in china, typhus down about 80% i think
08:37 AM SpeedEvil: composting toilets - for example - work fine
08:37 AM SpeedEvil: Human manure - properly treated - is fine
08:37 AM gloops: yes a deep enough hole is sustainable for sewage
08:37 AM gloops: but the hole is also a problem
08:38 AM gloops: SpeedEvil but storing it in buckets and throwing it about on the land isnt fine
08:38 AM SpeedEvil: heat to 60C for 15 min, or compost
08:38 AM Loetmichel: gloops: would be fine if heated beforehand
08:39 AM archivist: NK has a human worms problem due to use as a fertilizer
08:39 AM Loetmichel: so the virii are dead
08:39 AM Loetmichel: NK?
08:39 AM gloops: intestinal parasites all kinds of stuff
08:39 AM MarcelineVQ: that's a good point, parasites are a lot more resistant than bacteria, especially in egg form
08:39 AM archivist: North Korea
08:40 AM Rab: We make this, on the outskirts of town near the airport: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dillo_Dirt
08:40 AM gloops: in vietnam they used to smear booby traps with faeces, lethal if it gets into an open wound
08:40 AM Loetmichel: nothing which wouldnt die in enoughh heat
08:40 AM Loetmichel: archivist: ah!
08:40 AM Rab: Bad area to be working, if the wind is blowing the wrong way.
08:41 AM MarcelineVQ: I'd be more concerned about heavy metal concentration in human waste used as fertiziler, we are at the top of the foodchain after all, that's just going to concentrate it more
08:41 AM Rab: Several times the "dirt" hill has caught fire (possible self-ignition, I guess) and smoldered for days or weeks. The smell is unforgettable.
08:41 AM gloops: theyve built an anaerobic compost station not far from here, very bad smell until they got it right
08:41 AM MarcelineVQ: Rab: omy
08:41 AM Loetmichel: Rab: i can imagine
08:42 AM gloops: the council spent millions, said it would make big savings on landfill and collection and so on, they were even going to sell the compost - its been a costly failure
08:43 AM Loetmichel: MarcelineVQ: i think countrys that have problems getting any other fertlizer than human manure would have other problems as heavy metal concentration
08:43 AM gloops: we're now paying more and get fewer bin collections while they pay for it
08:43 AM MarcelineVQ: Loetmichel: as you can see from Rab's comment, it's not just those countries showing interest in it
08:44 AM Loetmichel: MarcelineVQ: in Rabs case it is monitored though, so no problem there either
08:44 AM MarcelineVQ: famous last words :X
08:45 AM Loetmichel: if there were a heavy metal concentration in it the city would have to dispose it as toxic waste.
08:45 AM Loetmichel: would have... if noone looks the other way of course
08:48 AM Loetmichel: on the other hand: i am not called "loetmichel" for nothing... i am soldering since i was 6... now that i am close to 49 i dont really want to know my lead in blodd count ;)
08:49 AM archivist: soldering wont give you a lead problem, fumes from driving and lead in pipes were worse
08:53 AM Loetmichel: chewing on the solder wire does... a bit ;)
08:54 AM Loetmichel: (3rd hand problem)
08:55 AM Loetmichel: but granted, metallic lead isnt that easy to get into the the body as fumes are (inhaling)
08:57 AM Rab: Lead vaporizes at far higher than typical soldering temps. Flux is a greater hazard, by far.
08:59 AM Loetmichel: Rab: i use only rosin core wire
08:59 AM Loetmichel: and rosin flux
08:59 AM Loetmichel: not that hazardous at all
08:59 AM Loetmichel: (if you dont count losing nose hairs when trying to get that stuff out of the nose after a day of soldering)
09:00 AM Rab: Loetmichel, rosin is supposed to be less toxic than no-clean fluxes, but I doubt it's good to breathe on a long-term basis.
09:00 AM Rab: I use no-clean flux exclusively, with fume extraction.
09:00 AM Loetmichel: ask catholic preist if they have problems
09:00 AM Loetmichel: thats the same stuff in that smoke pendulum
09:00 AM Loetmichel: (pretty much)
09:01 AM Loetmichel: rosin is just pine resin cooked a while to contain no water solube parts any more
09:44 AM * Loetmichel just made another bit of "Alu-origami"... pretty good for freehand bending without a brake if i may say so myself: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16940&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
09:45 AM skunkworks: Loetmichel, very nice!
09:46 AM skunkworks: lots of hunks of metal for bending?
09:46 AM skunkworks: or oak ;)
09:46 AM Loetmichel: nope, just hands
09:46 AM archivist: vice and angle iron
09:46 AM Loetmichel: but i milled 0.8 by 2mm channels on the inside to have only 0,7mm left to bend
09:47 AM Loetmichel: and to define WHERE the bend will sit
09:47 AM archivist: he might be cheating and grooving the bend
09:47 AM Loetmichel: i did
09:47 AM skunkworks: ah - cool - still very nice looking
09:47 AM Loetmichel: i dont have THAT much force in my fingers ;)
09:48 AM skunkworks: heh - I was going to say - hands of steel!
09:48 AM Loetmichel: hard enough to do the 0,7mm left on the small strips without any vice ;)
09:49 AM MarcelineVQ: is this rolled alu?
09:49 AM skunkworks: You need to requisition a vice and finger brake..
09:49 AM `Wolf: no bending here.. https://i.imgur.com/NHOpv7X.jpg https://i.imgur.com/RuNzRrr.jpg =)
09:50 AM `Wolf: more brackets to build still....
09:50 AM FinboySlick: Loetmichel: You're like a Trumph TruBend... But more german ;)
09:50 AM skunkworks: `Wolf, awesome
09:50 AM skunkworks: Why not just cnc it :)
09:51 AM Loetmichel: MarcelineVQ: its 1,5mm thick AlMg3 sheet metal
09:51 AM Loetmichel: no idea what "rolled alu" is, sorry
09:51 AM MarcelineVQ: as in not-cast, just wondering if there's a fatigue concern cutting into the metal before bending on pieces with a rolling grain
09:51 AM `Wolf: probably take longer to cad/cam the parts then just making it up as I go lol
09:52 AM `Wolf: this thing was bad enough https://i.imgur.com/RQJrIWW.jpg
09:53 AM FinboySlick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FkzLs7cLes <-- I assume you guys have seen this. It's hacky but i think it's a pretty cool idea regardless.
09:54 AM MarcelineVQ: sintered steel? most metal gears in consumer products are made that way, it's neat stuff
09:55 AM archivist: sintered is not quite solid though
09:55 AM MarcelineVQ: hmm, the comments are suggesting it's not sintering
09:56 AM `Wolf: diy sintered isn’t solid, commercial units are pretty good
09:56 AM MarcelineVQ: still seems like sintering, it's just using sand to keep the voids filled
09:57 AM `Wolf: sand cast sintered in a kiln I dunno about…
09:58 AM MarcelineVQ: I hope it's special sand, there's a looot of inclusion in these example shots
09:59 AM MarcelineVQ: a step in the right direction though, gotta start somewhere
09:59 AM `Wolf: spaceX uses metal 3d printed parts in their rockets
09:59 AM Loetmichel: MarcelineVQ: of course it is rolled alu then
09:59 AM Loetmichel: not cast
10:00 AM Loetmichel: i dont know if there IS any 1,5mm sheets in cast alu
10:01 AM MarcelineVQ: Loetmichel: it could be extruded I guess, I don't know much about the processes there, mostly wondering about the bends as I know from steel you can break edges if you're not careful about the grain you're bending on vs how you're bending
10:01 AM Loetmichel: its not a problem with that thin stuff
10:02 AM Loetmichel: it IS a problem however with the 4mm sheets i have to bend from time to time
10:02 AM MarcelineVQ: steel goes thorough a fair number of rolling passes to get sized down so it developes a direction of more strength and a direction of less
10:03 AM Loetmichel: they tend to develope micro cracks at a sharp bend. easily avoided though by making the inner slot that defines the bend wider
10:03 AM Loetmichel: so that it has a 2mm radius
10:03 AM Loetmichel: then the 4mm sheets stay in one piece at the bends, too
10:03 AM MarcelineVQ: neato
10:58 AM `Wolf: hmm, I’m tempted to take the chuck off this indexer I got and put it on a D1-4 backing plate….
11:11 AM Loetmichel: MarcelineVQ: that vesa nick mount is made of 4mm sheet alu: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15937&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
11:11 AM Loetmichel: .. and i even hat to "trick" a bit...
11:11 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15934&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
11:11 AM Loetmichel: ... CNC router was to small... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15931&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
11:12 AM Loetmichel: :-)
11:14 AM SpeedEvil: https://i.imgur.com/a8Xu9AY.jpg?1 my current TV mount
11:14 AM SpeedEvil: Not CNCd
11:15 AM SpeedEvil: Bearings are now greased polyethlene disks, which works quite well, extends out about a meter
11:15 AM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: nice... but i had to do something we could sell to our customer... ;)
11:15 AM SpeedEvil: yeah - this was V0 hack to see if the concept works.
11:15 AM Loetmichel: and that TV was 50" ;)
11:16 AM SpeedEvil: only 40" here
11:16 AM SpeedEvil: It's only ten kilos though
11:16 AM Loetmichel: yeah, that one was closer to 50kg
11:16 AM Loetmichel: the shielding glass in front was 13kg alone ;)
11:28 AM fragalot: I forgot the darn mesa at work again! >.<
11:28 AM fragalot: and my lunchbox :x
11:31 AM roycroft: my replacement vfd remote panel is finally arriving today
11:31 AM roycroft: and i'm impressed
11:31 AM roycroft: it left portland at 6:06am this morning, and arrived in eugene at 6:10
11:31 AM Connor: roycroft: What brand VFD ?
11:31 AM roycroft: huanyang
11:32 AM roycroft: portland is 200km from eugene
11:32 AM roycroft: so getting it here in 4 minute is very impressive :)
11:32 AM roycroft: i ordered this thing on aliexpress in november, connor, and that one still has not arrived
11:32 AM Connor: Geez.
11:33 AM roycroft: i reordered a bit over a week ago, and the replacement is finally here
11:33 AM Connor: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073WWPPWG
11:33 AM roycroft: and i am at the point where i need it now
11:33 AM Connor: I got a 1.5KW version of that for my bridgeport.. So far so good..
11:33 AM fragalot: roycroft: timezones?
11:33 AM roycroft: same timezone
11:33 AM roycroft: portland is almost due north of here
11:33 AM fragalot: what are they not telling us???
11:33 AM roycroft: i think ups have some clock synchronization problems :)
11:38 AM fragalot: their clocks work fine
11:38 AM fragalot: "why is this package here?"
11:38 AM fragalot: 'oh they forgot to scan it'
11:46 AM IchGucksLive: hi
11:46 AM fragalot: hey
11:47 AM Rab: It's possible that there's no distribution center in Eugene, so once it's scanned onto the truck it's considered there.
11:47 AM roycroft: there is a large distibution center in eugene
11:47 AM Rab: ...Never mind. ;)
11:47 AM roycroft: it's just an amusing anomoly
11:48 AM roycroft: more than likely exactly what fragalot suggested
11:48 AM roycroft: it arrived in eugene and they found it had not been scanned as having left portland
11:48 AM roycroft: so it left and arrived in a very short time period
11:48 AM fragalot: roycroft: it's more fun if there are several distribution centres in between
11:48 AM fragalot: "which one do you guess this came from?"
11:48 AM gloops: Ichs, sbr bearings, 1100mm gantry, how much play would you expect either side? like hold one side, how much can the other side move before bearings start binding
11:48 AM roycroft: it took the route i did not expect, actually
11:48 AM roycroft: three distribution centers in china, to japan, anchorage
11:48 AM roycroft: all that is fine
11:49 AM roycroft: but then it went down to ontario california before coming back north to portand and then south to eugene
11:49 AM roycroft: at least it did not hang out in memphis for a while
11:49 AM IchGucksLive: gloops: the wood engraver or the plasma
11:49 AM fragalot: roycroft: classic. :)
11:49 AM gloops: router
11:49 AM roycroft: if it were fedex it would have gone form cali or alaska to memphis, back to cali, then to seattle, then portand, and finally here
11:50 AM IchGucksLive: this one http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/holzcnc.jpg
11:50 AM gloops: i expected to be able to pull the gantry square - cannot, not much give at all
11:50 AM roycroft: there is a large ups distribution center in roseburg oregon, an hour south of here
11:50 AM Rab: roycroft, my sister lives in Corvallis, and I thought Eugene was smaller...I see now it's actually 3x the population.
11:50 AM roycroft: my parcels from california regularly go from cali to portland, then to roseburg, then to seattle, then back to portland, then eugene, then here
11:51 AM roycroft: yes, eugene is 3x as large as corvallis
11:51 AM roycroft: corvallis is the most educated city in oregon
11:51 AM `Wolf: roycroft: sounds like the trip my air cylinder took usps, made it to DC, then went south to greensville NC, instead of 30 mins north to me last week
11:51 AM roycroft: people go to engineering school at oregon state university and never leave corvallis when they graduate
11:51 AM Rab: Corvallis is pretty podunk IMO. Not sure how they tolerate it.
11:52 AM roycroft: it has the highest percantage of the population with graduate degrees in the state
11:52 AM roycroft: also the highest percentage with bachelor's degrees
11:52 AM fragalot: roycroft: so they have 2 graduates?
11:52 AM * fragalot runs
11:52 AM gloops: people sneer at the round rails, they are no joke, pretty good fitting
11:52 AM fragalot: round rails have their place
11:52 AM roycroft: oregon is a pretty rural, redneck state generally
11:52 AM Rab: I only sneer at unsupported ones.
11:53 AM fragalot: unsupported ones can be fine too
11:53 AM roycroft: outside the portland metro area there are little islands of pregressivism in salem, corvallis, eugene, and bend, surrounded by extremely conservative rural areas
11:53 AM sync: even the supported ones are kind of eh, they are a huge bimetal element
11:54 AM roycroft: people think oregon is full of hippies and hipsters
11:54 AM gloops: they are rigid, only thing is - they came bent anyway
11:54 AM Rab: sync, that's an interesting point.
11:54 AM roycroft: hippies and hipsters do outnumber the rednecks, but we're pretty isolated from each other
11:54 AM fragalot: gloops: lol
11:54 AM roycroft: eugene is an odd place
11:54 AM gloops: got to make some shims anyway to get a few mm cant pull the gantry much on the bearings
11:55 AM roycroft: we have a twin city - springfield - that's just across the river
11:55 AM roycroft: springfield is extremely conservative
11:55 AM roycroft: crossing over i5 is like entering another world
11:56 AM roycroft: i actually like that
11:56 AM roycroft: i think it's not good when peoples with very different ideologies are isolated from each other
11:57 AM roycroft: btw, our springfield is the springfield of simpson's fame
11:57 AM roycroft: and eugene is shelbyville, of course
11:58 AM fragalot: i'm pretty sure the nuclear plant homer works at is the one here in belgium
11:58 AM Rab: Yeah? Where's your tire fire?
11:58 AM fragalot: Monorail.
11:59 AM fragalot: https://i.imgur.com/Kv68SQL.png
11:59 AM fragalot: brilliant
11:59 AM fragalot: (fake, but brilliant)
12:00 PM roycroft: we only have one nuclear power plant in oregon
12:00 PM roycroft: it's right on the columbia river, and it has never been activated
12:01 PM roycroft: it was built in the '70s and mothballed in the '80s before it ever went online
12:01 PM fragalot: ours has been de-activated many times
12:01 PM jdh: crank it up
12:01 PM Rab: roycroft, I appreciate that dynamic in Texas. E.g. I don't see many guns in the city, but gun culture is an everyday thing you can come to terms with and not some inexplicable psychosis somewhere far away.
12:01 PM fragalot: because the govt continues to say "we'll shut you down"
12:01 PM fragalot: so they have stopped investing in them for ~30 yrs
12:01 PM fragalot: and each time the close date is there, the contract is extended
12:01 PM roycroft: we don't want them and we don't need them
12:02 PM roycroft: i have no idea why that plant was ever built
12:02 PM roycroft: we have cheap hydroelectric power
12:02 PM roycroft: the nuclear plant could never have produced power that was cost competetive with our hydro power
12:02 PM roycroft: and we're a net exporter of electricity
12:02 PM fragalot: we have expensive wind (expensive due to the false costs reported to drive up subsidies)
12:02 PM roycroft: we send a lot of our power to california
12:09 PM * JT-Shop keeps looking a table saws...
12:09 PM fragalot: i've given up tryihng to find a good one
12:09 PM roycroft: get a sawstop if you can afford it
12:09 PM fragalot: either they don't fit AT ALL, or they're 10k+
12:10 PM fragalot: (and also don't fit)
12:10 PM fragalot: or they are utter shite like my bosch i have now
12:10 PM fragalot: where someone decided it would be a good idea to emboss the logo in the table and sand it smooth
12:10 PM fragalot: not to mention the wobbly spindle
12:10 PM fragalot: </rant>
12:11 PM JT-Shop: sawstop?
12:12 PM fragalot: JT-Shop: they actually have a pretty nice saw
12:12 PM fragalot: works well, and has a nice feature that prevents you cutting your fingers off
12:12 PM fragalot: completely
12:12 PM JT-Shop: oh the blade stop thing
12:12 PM fragalot: yes
12:12 PM JT-Shop: yea my neighbor has one and it saved him from a nasty cut
12:13 PM fragalot: I don't think they sell 'm in europe sadly.. wouldn't mind one
12:18 PM MarcelineVQ: are you talking about that fin that comes up behind the blade?
12:19 PM fragalot: MarcelineVQ: saw-stop shoots a solid block of aluminium into the blade to stop it when it senses your fingers touch the blade
12:19 PM JT-Shop: no, it's a device to instantly stop the blade if contact with skin is detected
12:19 PM fragalot: what you're talking about is a riving knife
12:19 PM MarcelineVQ: huh, senses the capacitance of your hand I suppose?
12:19 PM fragalot: MarcelineVQ: exactly
12:19 PM MarcelineVQ: very cool
12:20 PM JT-Shop: the one my neighbor has is single use only and must be returned to the factory for a free replacement
12:20 PM fragalot: oh neat
12:20 PM fragalot: does it have to be in the original box? :P
12:22 PM JT-Shop: no, you just have to tell them it saved you from bleeding out and they replace it
12:22 PM roycroft: sawstops work brilliantly
12:22 PM roycroft: and you do not need to send it back to the factory if it's triggered
12:22 PM roycroft: you can buy a replacement stopping mechanism
12:23 PM roycroft: in fact, if you use a dado set you can buy a dado brake for it
12:23 PM roycroft: the thing just plugs into the saw
12:23 PM fragalot: can't use dado sets in europe
12:23 PM roycroft: the original sawstop had to be returned to the factory for repair
12:23 PM roycroft: but the current models have user-installable replacement brakes
12:23 PM fragalot: unless if you get a special saw equipped for dado sets with pins & a larger brake resistor
12:23 PM roycroft: iirc the brake is about $100
12:24 PM roycroft: but since the saw just saved you from cutting your finger off you'll be happy to spend the $100 to get it working again
12:24 PM * JT-Shop stops looking at table saws and goes back to work...
12:24 PM JT-Shop: I gladly pay $100 to not get cut again on a table saw
12:25 PM roycroft: yes
12:25 PM roycroft: you pay a premium up front to get the saw
12:25 PM roycroft: but it's well worth it imo
12:25 PM roycroft: that said, i don't have one yet
12:25 PM roycroft: it's on my list though
12:25 PM fragalot: agreed, especially because the saw itself is pretty good too
12:25 PM roycroft: yes, it's a great saw
12:26 PM MarcelineVQ: nice to have those sort of features these days, table saw is the second most dangerous tool in the shop
12:26 PM JT-Shop: the video on sawstop's web page is impressive
12:26 PM roycroft: next to the box cutter
12:26 PM fragalot: roycroft: no.
12:26 PM roycroft: which is the single most dangerous tool in industry
12:26 PM fragalot: the most dangerous tool in the shop is you.
12:26 PM MarcelineVQ: the box cutter is also the second most dangerous tool in the shop :>
12:27 PM roycroft: accident statistics bear that out year after year
12:27 PM fragalot: I maintain the only reason knives or box cutters are dangerous is because people let them get dull
12:28 PM roycroft: dull knives are inherently more dangerous than sharp ones
12:28 PM roycroft: there is no doubt about that
12:28 PM fragalot: s/only/main/
12:28 PM MarcelineVQ: Also posibly that they're dangerous because jobs that use them are tedious and tedium leads to lack of attention
12:28 PM roycroft: but i would suggest that it's also in large part because they are small and people are not trained to use them properly
12:29 PM fragalot: roycroft: agreed.
12:29 PM roycroft: they do not make lots of noise and do not weigh hundred/thousands of kg
12:30 PM Roguish: Bosch makes a 'safety' table saw also. https://newatlas.com/bosch-reaxx-table-saw/36636/
12:30 PM sync: fragalot: there is no reason why you could not use them in europe
12:31 PM roycroft: one can't use a riving knife with a dado set
12:31 PM sync: it is frowned upon by the osha equivalents but nothing actually stops you
12:31 PM fragalot: sync: not on standard saws
12:31 PM Roguish: a bit pricey, but after touching a blade once, you'll appreciate the value. been there, done that. no fun.
12:31 PM roycroft: although not applicable
12:31 PM fragalot: sync: MOST saws just do not have the required spindle length to run them
12:31 PM roycroft: since dadoes by definition are not through cuts
12:32 PM fragalot: and the ones that come factory rated to run them typically have additional features to allow dado sets, such as driving pins and larger braking mechanisms
12:32 PM roycroft: if the saw is set up properly there is no chance of getting injured using a dado set
12:32 PM roycroft: most table saws sold in the us have spindles long enough for a dado set that can cut up to 18mm wide
12:33 PM fragalot: most table saws here (read: nearly all) can't hold more than a single blade
12:33 PM roycroft: i'm glad to see that bosch saw
12:33 PM roycroft: one reason i think that osha don't require sawstops is that it's a patented technology that is not licensed
12:33 PM roycroft: and giving sawstop a monopoly would be problematic
12:34 PM roycroft: now there are two technologies that have the same effect
12:34 PM roycroft: that makes it time to start working on regulations to require such a safety feature in industry
12:34 PM fragalot: roycroft: actually
12:34 PM fragalot: bosch is NOT currently selling or marketing the rEAXX saws
12:34 PM roycroft: oh
12:35 PM fragalot: likely due to patent issues
12:35 PM roycroft: well whenever they're ready it will be time :)
12:35 PM fragalot: it depends on what sawstop patented
12:35 PM roycroft: hmm
12:35 PM fragalot: if they also patented the detection mechanism, others will be hard pressed to find an alternative to capacitive sensing
12:35 PM roycroft: the "don't let the blade cut you" mechanism is completely different from sawstop's
12:35 PM roycroft: but the detection mechanism could be infringing
12:36 PM roycroft: but if that is the case then it's foolish for sawstop to refuse to license the detection mechanism
12:36 PM roycroft: licensing it would increase sawstop sales
12:36 PM IchGucksLive: hi cp
12:36 PM fragalot: or they could not come to an agreement on the terms
12:37 PM IchGucksLive: hi CP_Away
12:37 PM fragalot: bosch is likely to play the "we're bigger" card
12:37 PM roycroft: sawstop are doing pretty well
12:37 PM roycroft: but yes, orders of magnitude smaller than bosch
12:38 PM fragalot: I'll just make my own table saw
12:38 PM fragalot: with blackjack, and hookers
12:38 PM IchGucksLive: CP_Away: = x.coder
12:38 PM roycroft: that press release for the bosch is dated 2015, with a target availability of later that year
12:38 PM roycroft: and a target price of $1500, which is competetive with the low-end sawstop
12:38 PM fragalot: roycroft: bosch's website states they do not offer them.
12:38 PM roycroft: so terms may be the issue
12:38 PM roycroft: and they thought at the time they were close to an arrangement
12:38 PM fragalot: could be
12:39 PM fragalot: or they got sued
12:39 PM fragalot: and it's still on-going, or they lost
12:39 PM IchGucksLive: German NewsPressh has named DT Word of the year 2017 AltenativeFacts
12:39 PM fragalot: IchGucksLive: what?
12:40 PM Roguish: SawStop tried for years to get othere companies like Delta to use the tech. no one wanted it, or wanted to pay. so SawStop went to market solo.
12:40 PM IchGucksLive: not to be discussed
12:40 PM roycroft: actually, that article suggests that bosch use a different detection mechanism
12:40 PM roycroft: yes, i recall that, roguish
12:40 PM IchGucksLive: fragalot: is mashine moving n manuell push
12:40 PM roycroft: they developed a prototype, and their business model was to license the technology to other manufacturers
12:40 PM fragalot: what machine?
12:41 PM sync: isn't the sawstop old enough that the patents ran out by now?
12:41 PM IchGucksLive: your room fit
12:41 PM roycroft: no
12:41 PM roycroft: patents in the us are for 17 years
12:41 PM roycroft: and sawstop is not that old
12:41 PM roycroft: maybe 10 years
12:41 PM roycroft: oh
12:41 PM roycroft: teh wikipedia claim they formed the business in 1999
12:41 PM IchGucksLive: roycroft: you can pay for 50years
12:41 PM Roguish: and can be extended with 'updates' and 'improvements'
12:42 PM roycroft: prototype in 2000, license attempts in 2002
12:42 PM fragalot: IchGucksLive: I have no idea what you mean -- could you say it in german? (I can read german, just not reply :))
12:42 PM IchGucksLive: roycroft: and if it is a Brandown it is expandable
12:42 PM Connor: My Maker Space has a SawStop. It's went off about 5 times now.. not once for a finger though.. a few times due to damp wood or the aluminum saw guide..
12:42 PM IchGucksLive: fragalot: just forget it
12:42 PM fragalot: ok
12:43 PM roycroft: and there is active patent litigation
12:43 PM roycroft: the sawstop patents exire in 2021
12:43 PM fragalot: can they be renewed?
12:43 PM roycroft: all according to teh wikipedia
12:43 PM roycroft: patents cannot be renewed
12:43 PM roycroft: unlike copyrights
12:43 PM fragalot: k
12:44 PM IchGucksLive: fragalot: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unwort_des_Jahres_(Deutschland)
12:44 PM fragalot: IchGucksLive: I just didn't know what you meant with "DT word"
12:44 PM roycroft: basically, if your intellectual property was copyrighted on or after the day that mickey mouse was copyrighted you can extend your copyright forever
12:44 PM IchGucksLive: Doneld the worlts best men
12:45 PM fragalot: ah right :D
12:45 PM roycroft: because every time the copyright on mickey mouse is about to expire our congress pass a law extending it further
12:45 PM roycroft: and it is illegal to pass a law that applies to one company/individual
12:45 PM IchGucksLive: nice Wall examples in the desert build at 450Mio
12:45 PM roycroft: so that extension applies to everyone
12:46 PM fragalot: roycroft: unless if that one company belongs to potus?
12:46 PM IchGucksLive: roycroft: im not shure you where right
12:46 PM fragalot: or is written in such a way that it COULD be generic, but actually isn't
12:46 PM roycroft: speaking of which, my friend who works at the university of oregon said that disney attempted to go after the university again
12:46 PM Connor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act
12:46 PM roycroft: they do this every few years
12:47 PM roycroft: some new hot shot attorney for disney decides to sue the u of o for copyright infringement, because the u of o's mascot is donald duck (the teams are the oregon ducks)
12:47 PM IchGucksLive: roycroft: washingmashines in the USA are most toploader as the Front is on German patent
12:47 PM roycroft: so every few years the u of o's legal staff pull out the letter written by walt disney himself granting the university permission to use donald duck
12:47 PM IchGucksLive: this is the patent gab
12:48 PM roycroft: most of our washing machines are front loaders now
12:48 PM roycroft: because they're so much more efficient
12:48 PM fragalot: because the patent expired :D
12:48 PM roycroft: and most of our frontloaders do not come from germany, but from south korea
12:48 PM roycroft: we don't care about german patents
12:48 PM roycroft: germans can patent things in the us
12:49 PM roycroft: and we respect those
12:49 PM roycroft: but if germans patent things in germany and neglect to patent them in the us we don't care
12:50 PM IchGucksLive: COOL DonaldDuck the disney DrawingFigure has its own Patent shop in real live
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: so the Danish MEN how brought up the sunken ship with pingpongballs had to pay as he used the idee
12:51 PM * fragalot only just made the mental link on how to pronounce IchGucksLive's name >.<
12:51 PM fragalot: IchGucksLive: really?
12:51 PM IchGucksLive: let me see if it is on keyboard :P
12:54 PM DocHopper: Hey there linux CNC-ers, I've been 3d printing for some time now, but would like to get into using a small mill to do some PCB/Acrylic/Aluminum work. Does anyone have a good suggestion for a very low cost cnc mill with which I can do some basic work and experimentation?
12:54 PM fragalot: DocHopper: where do you live?
12:54 PM IchGucksLive: DocHopper: where in the world are you
12:55 PM IchGucksLive: DocHopper: what size do you expect or what budget
12:57 PM gloops: china produces 30 million washers a year
12:57 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: without a patent shield
12:58 PM gloops: UK is also making washers again Ichs
12:58 PM IchGucksLive: mainly there are the same parts in as in BEST buy
12:58 PM DocHopper: IchGucksLive: fragalot I'm in the US, and this is only an introductory project, so less than $500 would be ideal.
12:58 PM IchGucksLive: gloops: they have been offert a big deal today
12:59 PM gloops: https://www.which.co.uk/news/2015/11/new-british-made-washing-machine-brand-launches-421411/
12:59 PM gloops: ill buy an ebac when ours goes, i dont even know what make ours is lol
12:59 PM roycroft: and soon the uk will have no foreign market for them :)
12:59 PM * roycroft pokes gently but will not react to a counterpoke today
01:00 PM gloops: you think europe is the only market roy?
01:00 PM gloops: heh heh
01:00 PM roycroft: when i bought my current washer/dryer i was looking at a blosch set
01:00 PM IchGucksLive: DocHopper: http://stores.ebay.com/rattmmotor88/CNC-Router-Machine-/_i.html?_fsub=2760685619
01:01 PM roycroft: but they were way more expensive than the mitsubishi that i finally got, and the bosch were rated as much less reliable by consumer reports
01:01 PM DocHopper: IchGucksLive: So most of the Chinese grbl based aluminum machines would serve me alright?
01:02 PM IchGucksLive: yes
01:02 PM fragalot: DocHopper: good enough to start out with
01:02 PM fragalot: they are all very light duty, but at that price range you won't find much better
01:02 PM gloops: someone selling a router in the UK £800, not bad size either
01:03 PM fragalot: gloops: link?
01:03 PM gloops: belt drive though
01:03 PM fragalot: never mind. :D
01:03 PM gloops: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155384172787297&set=pcb.1828242083894188&type=3&theater
01:04 PM gloops: actually would need some sorting out i think
01:04 PM DocHopper: fragalot: Thanks, that really all I need. At this point it's mostly a toy. There may be a point whenm I look at a full size 4x8 mill, but I don't have the space for now.
01:04 PM fragalot: need to log in to see that, gloops :(
01:04 PM fragalot: DocHopper: :-)
01:04 PM gloops: ahh, its on diy cnc machines, looks about 6-7foot long, 4 foot wide maybe
01:05 PM gloops: i do see them on ebay now and again, you could maybe get more for the money used
01:07 PM DocHopper: fragalot: And what should I expect to be using for path generation and sending the code to a machine like that? Have a good primer?
01:07 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6040-Cnc-Router/183017423747?
01:07 PM fragalot: I personally use Fusion360 on mine, and used to use Vectric Cut2D before that
01:07 PM fragalot: but there are thousands of options
01:07 PM IchGucksLive: FreeCAD
01:08 PM IchGucksLive: maybe NEW release within ths wek
01:08 PM IchGucksLive: as Yesterday Featherclosed
01:09 PM IchGucksLive: my dressup dident make it BAD
01:09 PM Rab: DocHopper, do you expect to focus on 2D (cutting from sheet stock) or 3D (contouring)?
01:10 PM IchGucksLive: im off Gn8 From Germany
01:10 PM fragalot: bye IchGucksLive
01:10 PM DocHopper: Rab: I didn't realize contour was much of an option on a machine that small. Likely 2d initially, but as I gain some experience, I'll be moving to contouring (But never organic shapes).
01:11 PM gloops: for wood - the Vectric apps, v carve, aspire
01:11 PM gloops: freecad probably as good as anything for simple forms, i cant vouch for the pathing on that though
01:12 PM gloops: f engrave is a free v carve app, no frills but good enough
01:13 PM DocHopper: gloops: So which should I look at first? This is all open source stuff?
01:13 PM Rab: DocHopper, lots of 2D options. I use Inkscape and gcodetools for 2D and engraving; there are some quirks but it's productive.
01:13 PM gloops: the vectric apps arent free, aspire is £1500
01:13 PM gloops: DocHopper go with fusion 360 or Freecad
01:14 PM gloops: i dont like fusion as it is cloud based and you have to sign up for it, but it is a good app
01:14 PM DocHopper: gloops: I'm not okay with fusions remote requirements, so I guess I'll look at freecad.
01:14 PM phipli: Does Fusion 360 work with linux yet?
01:14 PM jthornton: never will
01:14 PM phipli: the did a trial...
01:14 PM gloops: Freecad - download, install no nonsense no questions, nice app to learn on, can do a lot
01:14 PM phipli: sigh
01:15 PM phipli: I have Freecad
01:15 PM jthornton: https://elinux.org/RPi-Cam-Web-Interface
01:16 PM jthornton: phipli: finally found a camera interface for the rpi camera and it just works out of the box with no crap about loading a zillion libs lol
01:16 PM * roycroft is not looking forward to finding cam software when the time comes
01:16 PM jthornton: now to figure out a box to put the egg camera in...\
01:16 PM roycroft: my life might involve a lot of hand-coded gcode
01:16 PM phipli: thanks JT
01:17 PM phipli: my dad was looking for something like that
01:17 PM jthornton: I've been looking for a week lol
01:17 PM phipli: he has a pi attached to an 8" telescope pointing at a Red Kite's nest.
01:17 PM jthornton: that will work perfect for that
01:18 PM jthornton: so long as it is the pi camera and not a usb camera
01:18 PM phipli: yeah, tis
01:18 PM * fragalot just installed freecad to give it a go
01:19 PM phipli: roycroft, there is pycam
01:19 PM phipli: slow though
01:19 PM roycroft: i think i looked at that, phipli
01:19 PM roycroft: i use autocad 2008 and solidworks 2012 for cad software
01:19 PM xunil: hi folks, hoping someone has an idea for me... helping a friend with a scratch-built CNC plasma cutter backed on LinuxCNC; he wants to have a Z-up and Z-down switch for manual material touch-off. hooking up a button to the Z axis jog in HAL is pretty straightforward but he wants it to be at a fixed (slow) jog speed every time he uses the Z-up/Z-down buttons, but not have it affect the UI jog speed
01:19 PM gloops: it isnt solidworks fragalot but it is useful
01:19 PM jthornton: roycroft: on my lathe I do 99% of the ops using ngcgui
01:19 PM roycroft: i've not heard of that, jthornton
01:19 PM roycroft: i'll check it out
01:20 PM xunil: has anyone done something like this before?
01:20 PM phipli: roycroft, if your carving pretty things for customers, image-to-gcode is easy
01:20 PM roycroft: oh, that's some of the stuff that's bundled with linuxcnc
01:20 PM roycroft: my first cnc machine will be a mill/drill
01:20 PM roycroft: and i'll not be doing carving with it
01:20 PM phipli: turns a greyscale depth map into gcode
01:20 PM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/files/chnc/subroutines/
01:20 PM roycroft: some engraving, mayhap
01:20 PM roycroft: but mostly "standard" milling of parts
01:21 PM phipli: I was using freecad and processing it with pycamm
01:21 PM phipli: *cam
01:21 PM fragalot: xunil: I would imagine this should be possible using one of the velocity overrides?
01:21 PM phipli: but I'm making it up as I go along
01:22 PM jthornton: I have a G code generator for holes and tapping and such, also there are simple G code generators for most things like engraving and other mill tasks
01:22 PM phipli: someone who actually does it for a job might give better advice... well. most people will. I just play.
01:22 PM gloops: not seen that http://www.ncplot.com/
01:22 PM xunil: fragalot, OK, something for me to look at - I'm familiar with the Axis GUI and using the sliders in that but I don't know how that's hooked up on the HAL side.
01:22 PM roycroft: i don't care about performance of the cam software right now
01:22 PM gloops: g code ripper is handy, splits files, you can double the size of your machine capacity
01:22 PM phipli: jthornton, the linuxcnc site has a load of simple python tools for thing slike pockets, counterbores and speaker grilles
01:23 PM phipli: which I found handy
01:23 PM roycroft: if it's too slow for me i can always through more cpu and memory at it :)
01:23 PM gloops: it also does wrapping - gives code for 4 axis indexing
01:23 PM phipli: (I imagine you know they're there)
01:23 PM xunil: fragalot, I had also considered using a mux to select between the UI-configured jog speed and a fixed, low jog speed, with the mux selector hooked up such that when the Z physical button is pressed it selects the slow jog from the mux
01:23 PM jthornton: xunil: ignore the joypad part and look at the jogging part http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
01:23 PM xunil: but i think you have to set the halui.jog-speed either way, and i think that once you set that you lose whatever is set in the Axis UI
01:24 PM xunil: i should play with a sim i guess
01:24 PM xunil: jthornton, cool, more ideas, just what I was after :)
01:24 PM jthornton: np
01:25 PM * jthornton is done with yogurt break so back to trying to make some channel rings actually sorta round...
01:25 PM xunil: ok yeah, this uses a mux
01:25 PM xunil: i was on the right track :)
01:25 PM phipli: jthornton, angle grinder?
01:26 PM phipli: that will get them sorta round :)
01:27 PM gloops: plastic on TV again, amount of waste, what we need is a system for turning old plastic bags into high profit items with no work involved
01:27 PM gloops: except operating the till
01:28 PM roycroft: or maybe not use plastic bags any more?
01:28 PM xunil: my county outlawed the use of them
01:28 PM roycroft: the city of eugene has banned them
01:28 PM xunil: but it's California, everything's illegal here :)
01:29 PM gloops: well i hate the amount of plastic wrapping used on foodstuffs, everything doesnt need to be inside a plastic tray with a plastic film im sure
01:29 PM gloops: but a lot could be recycled im sure
01:29 PM roycroft: i boycott stuff that is gratuitously wrapped in plastic
01:29 PM roycroft: most plastic cannot be recycled
01:29 PM roycroft: much of it can be downcycled
01:30 PM gloops: melt it down and make roads with it or something useful
01:30 PM roycroft: that's just pushing the problem into the future
01:30 PM JT-Shop: phipli: 8 ton jack
01:30 PM roycroft: not as bad as dumping it in the ocean and killing sea life though
01:30 PM gloops: plastic is ok if its re-useable, its the once only stuff thats doing the harm
01:31 PM gloops: just keep it in a form that can always easily be re-used
01:31 PM roycroft: yes, but as i said, most plastics cannot be recycled like that
01:31 PM MarcelineVQ: aluminum wrap makes vegetables last longer than plastic as well
01:31 PM roycroft: we could shift to plastics that can, but we don't
01:32 PM roycroft: buying vegetables fresh and using them right away is even better
01:32 PM MarcelineVQ: especially celery for some reason, which gets at least a month of fridge time extension simply by double wrappign in alu
01:32 PM gloops: i grow most of my own
01:34 PM phipli: Snowing in Scotland
01:35 PM gloops: was snowing fast here earlier, didnt settle though
01:35 PM * phipli checks the weather in case it is heading this way...
01:35 PM phipli: 3am, some snow tonight
01:35 PM phipli: birds won't like that
01:35 PM phipli: should get some snow chains for my bike
01:35 PM fragalot: freeCAD's "Path" scares me.
01:36 PM gloops: .16?
01:36 PM fragalot: yes
01:36 PM fragalot: using plastic to make roads is a terrible idea
01:36 PM fragalot: driving on it tears small particles off
01:36 PM fragalot: which make their way into the runoff water when it rains
01:37 PM fragalot: which just ends up in the ocean anyhow
01:37 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:37 PM gloops: well i dont know, roof sheets, for people with no houses
01:37 PM gloops: there must be some substantial application for it, wont happen because theres no cash in though, as we know
01:37 PM roycroft: not to mention that traditional hardscaping causes erosion and contributes to localised flash flooding
01:37 PM phipli: stop making things out of really thin plastic to actually take advantage of its durability?
01:37 PM fragalot: if you can make it reliably UV resistant
01:38 PM phipli: double the thickness and make it last forever
01:38 PM phipli: (said no business man ever)
01:38 PM roycroft: newer road technologies use permeable materials so that roads can absorb water and not shed it all
01:38 PM gloops: phipli yes thats the other thing, make the product re-useable
01:38 PM fragalot: roycroft: the water still goes somewhere. :P
01:38 PM roycroft: yes, back into the ground below the road
01:38 PM gloops: fencing
01:38 PM roycroft: instead of off to the side of the road to join all the other water that is there
01:39 PM phipli: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32iSeAYnbI8
01:39 PM fragalot: gloops: not only make it reusable, but then also re-use it!
01:39 PM fragalot: I can't even count how many "re-usable" bags I have
01:39 PM fragalot: just because I had to buy a new one because I forgot the old one
01:39 PM roycroft: my "reusable" bags are canvas
01:40 PM gloops: who uses these strong bags they sell at suprmarkets - probably 5%
01:40 PM roycroft: most of them i've had for 15-20 years
01:40 PM MarcelineVQ: fragalot: haha ditto, they make good seperators for items in a deep freezer luckily
01:40 PM roycroft: i've been bringing my own bags to market for almost 40 years
01:40 PM roycroft: it's easy to not forget them
01:41 PM roycroft: when you get home from market and put your stuff away, hang the bag on the front doorknob
01:41 PM gloops: they used to use shopping baskets here, willow grows fast, consumes co2, cleans the river - but no, that was old fashioned and you cant put the brand name on a basket
01:41 PM roycroft: next time you leave the house it will be right there and you won't be able to forget it
01:41 PM roycroft: put it back in the car when you go out
01:41 PM fragalot: roycroft: I often go to the shop on my way home from work
01:41 PM fragalot: bag is in the car
01:41 PM fragalot: I'm in the shop
01:41 PM fragalot: no bag.
01:41 PM roycroft: go out and get it :)
01:41 PM fragalot: I can't help being an idiot :)
01:42 PM gloops: roy nobody ever does they, they throw the shopping in the cupboard and start troughing what they bought lol
01:42 PM roycroft: actually, i'm very forgetful
01:42 PM roycroft: i've learned to develop habits so that i don't forget
01:42 PM fragalot: I usually use crates to go shopping now
01:42 PM Tom_L: roycroft how are they working out for ya?
01:42 PM roycroft: some folks think that all my habits are constraining
01:43 PM roycroft: and think it must drive me nuts
01:43 PM gloops: discount shop here doesnt sell bags - just keeps a stock of old cardboard boxes
01:43 PM fragalot: but when i'm out buying DIY stuff or unplanned trips,.. I add to the bag collection
01:43 PM roycroft: i find them liberating
01:43 PM CaptHindsight: I use the plastic ones they sell you at the market. I use them later to wrap toxic waste before disposal.
01:43 PM fragalot: gloops: most food shops do that here, actually
01:43 PM roycroft: when i develop a good habit and imprint it really well it's something i never have to think about again
01:43 PM MarcelineVQ: I use them as gloves to pick mushrooms, then I just invert it and tie
01:44 PM roycroft: as a tiny example, people tend to not use turn signals unless they determine that there is a compelling reason to do so
01:44 PM roycroft: i'm sure all of us have experienced folks who are stopped at a signal light with no indicator on
01:44 PM roycroft: as soon as we approach from behind the car starts indicating
01:45 PM roycroft: the driver obviously decided that it would be prudent to indicate because someone is behind
01:45 PM roycroft: my habit is to indicate whenever i turn
01:45 PM fragalot: so what roycroft does instead, is indicate at all times.
01:45 PM fragalot: :P
01:45 PM roycroft: even at 3am in the middle of nowhere, where the nearest car is probably 10 km away
01:45 PM Tom_L: i just leave mine on all the time. eventually i will turn that direction :D
01:45 PM roycroft: and i've had passengers get on my case about it
01:45 PM CaptHindsight: have you noticed the new cars that turn on the back up lights after the vehicle is turned off?
01:45 PM roycroft: but it's a habit
01:45 PM roycroft: i don't think about it, EVER
01:45 PM roycroft: when i turn i indicate
01:46 PM roycroft: no judgement, no evaluation of the situation
01:46 PM roycroft: it's just a habigt
01:46 PM fragalot: I find that a bad example to have to explain
01:46 PM roycroft: why?
01:46 PM fragalot: because turning == signal
01:46 PM fragalot: regardless of the situation
01:46 PM CaptHindsight: they act like they are going to back out from their parking space but have really just turned off the ignition, who had this genius idea?
01:46 PM roycroft: i've had people very aggressively harass me for indicating when there is nobody around
01:46 PM fragalot: the fact that that is even a discussion annoys me
01:47 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight was it a toyota product?
01:47 PM roycroft: i think it's a good example
01:47 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: or the volkswagens using the foglights as a turning light
01:47 PM roycroft: given the context of the discussion
01:47 PM fragalot: always looks like they ahve a light out
01:47 PM Tom_L: some mfg come up with the dumbest shit sometimes
01:47 PM fragalot: roycroft: not really
01:47 PM roycroft: i was discussing how i find developing habits like that liberating, vs constraining
01:48 PM fragalot: nobody is going to say "leave that bag home you may not need it at the shop"
01:48 PM * Tom_L comes back when the discussion is more OT
01:48 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: GM
01:48 PM fragalot: Tom_L: we can do one better
01:48 PM fragalot: the discussion can go OTT.
01:48 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, I expect it's to illuminate the area, same as leaving the headlights on for a time. But I also think it's bad UI.
01:48 PM roycroft: to my mind, having to think about whether indicating is necessary or not (disregarding the legal requirement to do so ) is a distraction that limits my freedom to think about other things
01:49 PM roycroft: some think it infringes on their freedom to do something like that automatically instead of choosing on a case-by-case basis
01:49 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight i hate their 'auto stop' feature
01:49 PM roycroft: and perhaps that's correct
01:49 PM CaptHindsight: so now backing up and indicating where your car is are the same
01:50 PM roycroft: but i'd rather be "free" to do things more meaningful than deciding when to indicate or not
01:50 PM MarcelineVQ: brilliant
01:50 PM CaptHindsight: why not have them flash if you really need to see where your car is?
01:50 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: it's to see where you are going, rather than seeing where the car is
01:51 PM * roycroft thinks that discussing user interfaces is somewhat on-topic regardless of the interface
01:51 PM fragalot: I found the "I'll keep the headlights on for a minute" feature very useful at times when parking in ocmpletely unlit areas
01:51 PM gloops: freecad .17 is improved a lot, the daily build has everything but marked as unstable
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: then why are they on when the car is off?
01:51 PM roycroft: it's at least as far off-topic as a lot of discussions here :)
01:51 PM fragalot: gloops: yeah 'ill wait for that one to come out & try it again
01:51 PM roycroft: the headlights turn off when i remove the ignition key
01:52 PM roycroft: but i can see leaving them on for a minute as a useful feature
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: are they supposed to be like a flashlight for the people walking away from the vehicle?
01:52 PM fragalot: but it's still intimidating with absolutely NO defaults set for you, and no preview or sim (in .16 that I could find)
01:52 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: Yes.
01:52 PM roycroft: say you come home from market at night and you do not have an outside light that turns on automatically
01:52 PM fragalot: worked a treat for me in my old rental house that had a long unlit driveway
01:52 PM roycroft: your car headlights can provide enough illumination to get you to your front door and insert the key
01:52 PM roycroft: unless you back into your driveway like i do :)
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: was this from the same people that develop web pages and most phone apps?
01:53 PM JT-Shop: my guess it will be Thursday before UPS delivers my packages they have had on the truck since last Thursday
01:53 PM roycroft: in which case
01:53 PM roycroft: your reversing lights could provide that illumination!
01:53 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: *shrug* it's a setting you can disable.
01:53 PM fragalot: mine's set to illuminate if I press the lock or open button twice
01:53 PM fragalot: holding the button opens or clsoes the windows
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: idiots can't do this, or be expected to turn them off
01:54 PM roycroft: i never turn the lights off on my car
01:54 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, it's from exactly the same people who develop touchscreen vehicle interfaces with no tactile feedback.
01:54 PM miss0r: I have a new favorite stock material on the lathe: teflon :D
01:54 PM roycroft: it has drl, so i would not be able to turn the headlights off anyway while driving
01:54 PM fragalot: miss0r: did you get the chips to break?
01:54 PM miss0r: lol
01:54 PM fragalot: miss0r: no, really? :P
01:55 PM gloops: the problem is, mankind has already invented all the things necessary for civilisation, now all we do is make gadgets and toys
01:55 PM roycroft: and i think that even during the day, having tail lights and side marker lights can provide an extra margin of visibility, hence safety
01:55 PM miss0r: I don't know of anyone who realy does that?
01:55 PM gloops: we've lost the pioneering spirit because we dont need it
01:55 PM roycroft: and the lights turn off automatically when i remove the ignition key, so i can never drain the battery with them on
01:55 PM miss0r: I placed a bucket, and just let it draw itself in there
01:55 PM miss0r: damn it! coffee got cold - having too much fun
01:55 PM CaptHindsight: gloops: you callin back up lights that stay on when you leave the car is unnecessary?
01:55 PM roycroft: again, i never have to decide if it's too dark or too foggy or too rainy to drive without lights, and manually turn them on if i deem necessary
01:56 PM roycroft: just leave them on and never worry about it
01:56 PM gloops: Capt absolutely
01:56 PM fragalot: my lights are almost exclusively in the "auto" position
01:56 PM roycroft: and i just outlined a case where reversing lights coming on when exiting the vehicle might be useful
01:56 PM fragalot: driving lights are always on, main beam switches on when rainy or dusk/dark, and high beam should I want it to
01:56 PM fragalot: works fine.
01:56 PM CaptHindsight: gloops: I needs my lights on to survive and my phones to be able to hear me talking and stuff
01:57 PM miss0r: fragalot: why, have you ever gotten the chip to break?
01:57 PM roycroft: drl are the same as my low beam headlights
01:57 PM fragalot: miss0r: no, hence the question :D
01:57 PM gloops: if mankind had devoted all the effort and resources that its put into pointless games and gimmicks and electronic irrelevance, into health care say, we would have a cure for cancer by now
01:58 PM CaptHindsight: gloops: yah can'ts use resonin for this stuff
01:58 PM gloops: plus plus dark matter engines
01:58 PM CaptHindsight: people done gets mad when yah talk things like that
01:59 PM JT-Shop: the one problem I have with the sawstop video is they go real slow with the hotdog finger substitute in real life when you get a kickback it happens very fast
01:59 PM CaptHindsight: tellin em whats to work on and whats do be doin
01:59 PM CaptHindsight: thins to not be doin
01:59 PM fragalot: JT-Shop: it will still cut you, but it will also stop before it's finished going through the bone
01:59 PM fragalot: i'd rather have a chunk missing than 2 fingers
01:59 PM roycroft: it's not inte interest of the health care industry to cure cancer, or any other disease
01:59 PM gloops: at least 10000 companies worldwide are investing heavily in research to create the perfect red lipstick
02:00 PM roycroft: if you cure something you can't milk it for more revenue
02:00 PM gloops: if they were trying to find the cause of ageing we might get somewhere
02:00 PM roycroft: treating symptoms but never curing is a much more profitable long-term strategy
02:01 PM gregcnc: turning plastic https://youtu.be/zMii48TgFuQ?t=5s
02:01 PM CaptHindsight: eat, poop, hump, make money, that's about all many people can handle for the meaning of life
02:02 PM CaptHindsight: oh and angry man in the sky fears
02:02 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: make money to pay for car to allow you to make money*
02:03 PM CaptHindsight: thinking about other people is way off the radar of most people
02:03 PM JT-Shop: fragalot: agree a cut is better than loosing ones fingers
02:04 PM CaptHindsight: gloops: there some actual science with results in that right now, but do you really want to see some people living until 150 or longer?
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: the majority of my generation has proven to not give a crap about the next few
02:07 PM fragalot: the current generation is getting in the way of darwinism with the new generation too
02:08 PM fragalot: if they want to eat Tide pods, it's their birth right. :P
02:10 PM fragalot: One of the real issues we have now is that "intelligence" is shifting
02:10 PM fragalot: people think less for themselves
02:10 PM fragalot: and rather than knowing something, you now look it up
02:11 PM fragalot: but instead of looking it up in an encyclopedia where the content has been vetted, you look it up on the internet
02:11 PM fragalot: where the content is not vetted or proven to be accurate
02:11 PM fragalot: and that possibly inaccurate piece of information now becomes what you know to be true
02:11 PM fragalot: because the internet said so
02:12 PM fragalot: I catch myself with this a lot too
02:12 PM fragalot: you see a screenshot of a news article, go along with it, until you later run into something disproving it clearly
02:12 PM CaptHindsight: nah, just wait till all the money trckles down from all the tax plans in the past 30 years...
02:13 PM CaptHindsight: then everyone will be happy :)
02:13 PM CaptHindsight: it's just a matter of time
02:13 PM fragalot: I do like that
02:13 PM fragalot: step 1: tax people for money
02:13 PM fragalot: step 2: inflation
02:14 PM fragalot: step 3: pay back lower $ amount than originally taxed, depending on how much you managed to inflate the $
02:14 PM fragalot: eg. pay $10, inflate 25%, pay back $2
02:14 PM fragalot: profit. :d
02:14 PM gloops: CaptHindsight something is going to have to change soon, humans will be living to 400
02:15 PM gloops: or some humans will
02:15 PM fragalot: gloops: but will it reallly be much of a life?
02:15 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: they don't really live now
02:15 PM fragalot: one of the reasons people live longer now is because of improved geriatric care.
02:15 PM gloops: it will with artificial add ons, cell rejuvenation etc
02:16 PM CaptHindsight: obsessive money collectors, just need to collect money, just add food and water...
02:16 PM gloops: the transhumans will have superior intelligence
02:17 PM CaptHindsight: superiorer than whoms?
02:18 PM gloops: the internet as a database will will have synaptic interface
02:18 PM gloops: it will become conscious collectively with those who joined to it
02:19 PM gloops: CaptHindsight the gamma classes
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: nah, it will get throttled
02:19 PM fragalot: xD
02:19 PM fragalot: or doctored
02:19 PM gloops: you will be aware of everything you currently have to google, it will be your memory
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: only those that pay for the big brains plan will have enough bandwidth
02:20 PM fragalot: gloops: I think you hate too much faith in technology
02:21 PM gloops: bound to happen
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: see you have to define "nice things"
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: nice things for compulsive obsessives might be money and power
02:22 PM gloops: personality modification?
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: voluntarily?
02:23 PM gloops: did you choose your current personality?
02:23 PM fragalot: "Right, I want 5% OCD, 25% anxiety,..."
02:23 PM gloops: it takes a certain personality to choose a certain personality
02:24 PM gloops: the alphas will be programmed from the amniotic sac
02:26 PM fragalot: gloops: Hawaii: https://i.imgur.com/NRYdOSn.mp4
02:27 PM gloops: the barbarians will gradually fall behind, they will be no more than chimpanzees are to modern humans
02:27 PM gloops: they may even devolve
02:29 PM miss0r: damnit! I thought I had a massive 60mm alu round stock, turns out its a hollow :-/
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: gloops: have they made any progress yet?
02:30 PM gloops: he obviously made a fortune with this and bought a new 8x4 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-Router/253311841029?
02:30 PM fragalot: holy crap gloops
02:30 PM fragalot: it comes with 3 software!
02:31 PM gloops: and a tidy wiring board
02:31 PM miss0r: omfg hahahahahahahahaha
02:32 PM gloops: empty packet of rolling tobacco! lol
02:32 PM fragalot: a full one would be too dangerous
02:33 PM miss0r: the price though.. I could be rich if I sold just one machine in here
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: with some stain and shellac it could have been listed as new or refurbed by owner
02:33 PM fragalot: I don't think people outside the US really use shellac
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: wood is easily scraped flat
02:33 PM gloops: yeah would be more appealing with a tidy up
02:34 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: until you open the door & let the humidity in, yes
02:34 PM miss0r: a lick of paint, and he could double the price
02:34 PM miss0r: I'm having a hard time reading this from the descrpition: will it cut steel with a nice surface finish?
02:34 PM fragalot: miss0r: yes
02:34 PM CaptHindsight: rustic or very hipster
02:35 PM fragalot: insert a grinding bit
02:35 PM miss0r: then the price is more than cheap :D
02:35 PM miss0r: lol, you better have that stone balanced or it will start unscrewing it self
02:36 PM miss0r: 'add automatic disassembly to description'
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: rust resistant
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: bio degradable
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: eco friendly
02:37 PM fragalot: space heater
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: vintage look
02:38 PM fragalot: brown
02:38 PM miss0r: fragalot now theres a sales pitch
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: with metallic embellishments
02:39 PM gloops: wow, 3m ballscrew https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/cnc-3-axis-woodwork-router-plasma-cutter-machine-8ftx4ft/182647717926?
02:39 PM gloops: doubt that is much use, 8k
02:39 PM fragalot: miss0r: "can be retrofitted with plasma torch"
02:41 PM miss0r: now that sounds interresting :D
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: heh, this always ends up with that video of the routed made from pipe in that guys apartment
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: routed/router
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: don't look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PSG2al1Sus
02:44 PM fragalot: the captions
02:44 PM fragalot: "alcohol has been a big help"
02:46 PM gloops: he must get the bolts from work lol
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nG1V773LVM should be his background music
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: I wonder if he still lives there
02:50 PM gloops: if he does it will still be same carpet down
02:52 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c47kn_Y4y8A this is impressive, Ultimate Paper Airplane
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: all by hand
02:53 PM fragalot: careful you'll eventually end up at the dark side of youtube
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: i started there and worked my way back
02:54 PM fragalot: haha
02:56 PM gloops: my 3rd cnc machine - notes the inclination to very heavy/strong/powerful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez9nprrP0VU
02:56 PM fragalot: cute little thing
02:57 PM gloops: the first was probably wood or 40x40 ally
03:03 PM fragalot: Ooo a new this old tony vid
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: they would be neat if made several feet long https://youtu.be/G0-lJKOgTuo?t=49s SLS printed
03:12 PM gloops: looking at that, how do snake arms work?
03:12 PM fragalot: That is freaky
03:14 PM gloops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN02RfPbhio cable pull, like a chickens foot
03:14 PM gloops: how the hell do you code that
03:15 PM fragalot: gloops: not too difficult
03:16 PM gloops: probably not actually
03:16 PM gloops: left right, up down
03:16 PM fragalot: I do like how he's using it to point to itself
03:24 PM Rab: Survival Research Labs has a big one that can lift 400 lbs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqfrVFaGlLA
03:36 PM gloops: well biology didnt evolve screws for lifting, i reckon cable pulling is the future
03:37 PM MarcelineVQ: synthetic muscle :>
03:37 PM MarcelineVQ: thing is we can do better than nature, that's the point of technology, nature didn't evolve the wheel either
03:38 PM gloops: maybe
03:38 PM gloops: animals dont need roads though
03:39 PM MarcelineVQ: if you're interested in cable pulling you might want to look into synthetic muscle though, things like shape metal alloys or electroconstrictive polymers are really really interesting
03:40 PM gloops: is that the basis for terminator 2?
03:41 PM MarcelineVQ: sure, that an everything that was cool in the 80's
03:45 PM gloops: that kind of stuff will happen, something really revolutionary that wipes out swathes of old tech like a mass extinction
03:47 PM gloops: computers atm are a bit like early flight in balloons - flying yes, but the real stuff is yet to come
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: I want sidewalks that talk and are dible
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: edible
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: or the everything app
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: an app to replace all the other apps
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: it just does everything
03:49 PM gloops: why not have an environment that simply reads the wishes of whoever is in it and reconfigures itself accordingly
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: not sure if that would work
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: what if you have no wishes
03:51 PM MarcelineVQ: the wish fullfillment machine is what sank atlantis! :>
03:51 PM gloops: it provides the standard, you would have to want it to be different for it to change
03:52 PM gloops: you wont have to program it or command it, it will know before you
03:56 PM Deejay: gn8
03:58 PM gloops: atlantis is off the coast of the UK i think
03:59 PM roycroft: it is
03:59 PM roycroft: ask donovan :)
03:59 PM MarcelineVQ: everything is off the coast of the empire :>
03:59 PM gloops: well, in the atlantic
04:00 PM MarcelineVQ: as far as legends go I think atlantis is, atlanic go figure, and the 'lost land' of the pacific is mu
04:00 PM gloops: never heard of mu
04:01 PM MarcelineVQ: there's also lemuria to add to the lost land list
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: saw this documentary when i was a kid http://landofthelost.wikia.com/wiki/Land_of_the_Lost_Wiki
04:04 PM MarcelineVQ: hehe
04:05 PM gloops: dont think we got that here, we got lost in space
04:06 PM CaptHindsight: hundreds of $ were spent on the special effects https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3Qehtte0bQ
04:07 PM MarcelineVQ: these are special effects? seamless
04:07 PM CaptHindsight: wow i forgot how bad that was
04:07 PM gloops: the waves and flames are always proportionately sized
04:40 PM gloops: Turpin family looks slightly unconventional
04:40 PM Sabotend_ is now known as Sabotender
05:47 PM `Wolf: fucking amazing, some people are idiots, no wonder the package took so long and was almost lost… https://imgur.com/a/5pi0T
05:48 PM MarcelineVQ: what the shits
05:48 PM `Wolf: box was so messed up that I scratched the top on the new work station I just got in the door also
05:49 PM MarcelineVQ: how many seperate vehicles doe sone package fall off to look like that
05:49 PM `Wolf: 40lb air cylinder packed in a toaster box with one crumpled news paper for packing material
05:50 PM MarcelineVQ: who's this from?
05:50 PM `Wolf: eBay...
05:50 PM MarcelineVQ: aw :(
05:50 PM `Wolf: probably mauled by the auto sorter
05:51 PM MarcelineVQ: as far as I've heard ebay has good buyer protection, you gonna take advantage of that?
05:51 PM `Wolf: seeing nothing was stopping the cylinder from moving around the box
05:51 PM `Wolf: going to yell at the seller and see what they say
05:51 PM MarcelineVQ: iirc somenone here kept getting bit by buyers making stuff up
05:52 PM MarcelineVQ: so hopefully that translates into something useful for legitimate claims
05:53 PM `Wolf: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fabco-Air-UHP-Series-Hi-Power-Cylinder-Pancake-Series-Used/152654790739?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
05:53 PM `Wolf: looked unused in the ad pics
05:54 PM MarcelineVQ: you can get cylinders for 40$ in the states? gosh darn it
05:54 PM `Wolf: well, studs were all straight when it started the trip lol
05:54 PM `Wolf: get lucky some times =)
05:55 PM `Wolf: this is a 155mm (ish)
05:56 PM `Wolf: correct packing? lol https://i.imgur.com/xSb5WA0.jpg
05:57 PM MarcelineVQ: looks good to me!
05:58 PM `Wolf: R8 keyless chuck for scale https://i.imgur.com/uetkDdd.jpg =D
05:59 PM MarcelineVQ: it must be keyless, the keyway is empty
05:59 PM `Wolf: =p lol
06:00 PM MarcelineVQ: I wonder how many 'keyless' chucks a person could sell before getting shut down hehe
06:00 PM `Wolf: shit
06:01 PM `Wolf: I needed to pick up key for the jacobs chuck for the lathe while I was at home depot lol
06:22 PM roycroft: i just freaked out the assistant manager at harbor freight, and got her in trouble (not intentionaly)
06:23 PM roycroft: i had complained to her in the past about their cashiers harassing me for my phone number, and had told her that asking once is fine, but when i politely decline that should be the end of it
06:23 PM roycroft: after the fourth time she asked me for my number today i walked out and told her i'd go shop at a store where they respect their customers
06:24 PM jdh: "do you want to be like radio shack?"
06:24 PM roycroft: the manager ran over to me and tried to apologise
06:24 PM roycroft: i told him i'd give them another go, but not today
06:24 PM jdh: next time you need a single use tool?
06:24 PM roycroft: then he grabbed the assistant manager and practically dragged her into the back room
06:25 PM roycroft: radio shack were smart enough to drop that crap years ago
06:25 PM roycroft: not smart enough to remain in business though
06:27 PM roycroft: i just needed a dedicated dial indicator for a semi-precision application
06:27 PM roycroft: i did not want to use my mitutoyo for that
06:27 PM roycroft: a $15 one would do the job fine
06:28 PM roycroft: but i do not want to have to install and uninstall it all the time
06:28 PM roycroft: hopefully the hf ones are about the same size as the mitutoyo, as i'll be using the mitutoyo for now
06:28 PM roycroft: i need to make the holder for it today
06:30 PM roycroft: just in case, i should probably make the indicator mount adjustable
06:36 PM roycroft: well yay
06:37 PM roycroft: ups just arrived, and a remote control panel for my vfd finally arrived
06:44 PM skunkworks_: wonder what happened to les watts.
07:27 PM Crom: BOBs showed up, now wait8n
07:28 PM Crom: pon fffemale,ndfemaake adapters
07:31 PM Crom: paulcnc kit showed up, now wwaiting for time to put it in
08:52 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Belt_Guard/Belt_Guard.jpg
08:52 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Belt_Guard/Belt_Guard2.jpg
08:52 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Belt_Guard/Belt_Clearance.jpg
08:57 PM roycroft: the new vfd remote control panel will not fit in the control panel i designed
08:57 PM roycroft: this is why i wanted to wait until it arrived before building my control panel
08:57 PM Tom_L: cut a hole in the side of it and weld some more cabinet to it
08:58 PM Tom_L: if i ever get one, i'll mount it to the side
08:58 PM Tom_L: my pannel isn't big enough
08:59 PM roycroft: waiting until the part arrived before building its housing works fine :)
08:59 PM roycroft: so when is your mill going to be done?
08:59 PM roycroft: you've made a lot of progress on it
08:59 PM Tom_L: that's the mystery question
08:59 PM roycroft: the answer is actually very simple:
08:59 PM Tom_L: i got my belt today so i decided to make a guard for it
08:59 PM roycroft: it will be done when it is done
09:00 PM Tom_L: i had a belt but had to change where the motor mounted
09:00 PM Tom_L: so i needed a longer one
09:00 PM roycroft: i know for growing projects
09:00 PM Tom_L: but i'm not in a hurry
09:01 PM Tom_L: the cover would have been nicer probably if i had a spot welder
09:01 PM roycroft: i am kind of anxious to get this current project completed, because i have two others on its heels
09:01 PM Tom_L: instead i just wrapped a strip around the perimeter and mig welded it
09:01 PM roycroft: i got one from hf a few years ago marked way down at one of their tent sales
09:01 PM roycroft: i figured that it was a fairly safe thing to get there - it's just a transformer, a cord, a switch, and some copper rods
09:02 PM roycroft: it was missing the slide hammer so it was almost free - i think i paid $30 for it
09:02 PM Tom_L: i hadn't used my mig that much and was having issues with it. once i got them ironed out i think i'm liking it alot
09:02 PM Tom_L: learned on stick
09:02 PM roycroft: i rang up their customer service folks, wanting to know how much the slide hammer was (the ones for pulling body studs are different from the ones i have)
09:02 PM Tom_L: ahh
09:02 PM roycroft: and they told me it should have been included with the spot welder, so they sent it to me gratis
09:03 PM roycroft: i don't use the spot welder often, but when i need it it works better than anything else i can imagine
09:03 PM Tom_L: the mig worked great actually
09:04 PM roycroft: yeah, those can work well
09:04 PM Tom_L: just turned it way down
09:04 PM roycroft: a lot easier than stick welders at low amperage
09:04 PM roycroft: on my list for this spring is to get good at tig welding
09:04 PM roycroft: i've had a tig welder for about 6 or 7 years, and i hardly ever use it
09:04 PM Tom_L: tig would be nice but i doubt i'd use one that much
09:05 PM roycroft: if i ever get decent at it (which shouldn't take very long) i'll probably use it for most of my welding
09:05 PM roycroft: i don't weld that often, and i always spend 2x as much time grinding than welding
09:05 PM roycroft: if i get good with the tig welder i should be able to eliminate most of the grinding
09:05 PM Tom_L: i'm getting better at it
09:06 PM roycroft: that's the theory anyway
09:06 PM roycroft: and the hope
09:06 PM * roycroft thinks it's time to make dinner
09:21 PM dioz: yo
09:21 PM dioz: i have a question for you guys
09:22 PM dioz: there's this crescent style wrench.. it looks older though
09:22 PM dioz: it has a verticle style crescenting aspect
09:22 PM dioz: in stead of the threads being perpendiular to the handle
09:22 PM dioz: it's parallel\in line
09:22 PM dioz: i just can't seem to find a resaonable name to find an image even
09:23 PM dioz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUj_0o4niwI
09:23 PM dioz: like that sort of
09:24 PM dioz: like the wrench he uses in this video
09:24 PM dioz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia_U4dKsZK0
09:33 PM Tom_L: https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/vintage-adjustable-wrench-old-used-monkey-isolated-white-40064737.jpg
09:34 PM Tom_L: not like that is it?
09:36 PM Tom_L: http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/buswrench/media/bWVkaWFJZDoyMjk1MzczMw==/?ref=
09:36 PM Tom_L: or even older
09:38 PM CaptHindsight: did you know that the monkey wrench was not for turning/tightening monkeys?
09:39 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_wrench
09:44 PM dioz: holy fk
09:44 PM dioz: thnx guys
09:44 PM dioz: that makes me feel dumb
09:45 PM Tom_L: i've got one like that first one i posted
10:45 PM Contract_Pilot: 2Hey all